why is it okay to have a good Drow but not okay to have a good Mindflayer?

Mindflayers literally don't have souls. They cannot be good.

It's fine for them to be whatever your DM says they are

Don't be a "that guy"

>>714923809 (OP)
Why are you a nigger?

>>714923809 (OP)
Isn't there literally a good mindflayer in game? I didn't finish the game btw so he might turn on you later.

>>714923809 (OP)

>>714923809 (OP)
why do you keep making this thread

>>714924591
he's not consciously good. A robot designed to kill nazis is no more good or evil than one designed to help them

>>714923809 (OP)
He openly admits the only reason he hasn't succumb to his hunger regarding you is because he knows you'd kick his ass. He's not eating you for the same reason I wouldn't try to kill and eat an elephant with my bare hands.

>>714923809 (OP)
Omeluum is the closest you can get, he's such a magic autist he's too busy being a wizard to be actively evil and can resist control of definitely evil elder brains through this obsession

and even he's only managing neutral because he still doesn't have the capacity for genuine altruism, he just has goals that are non evil

also the one dead giveaway that he's the only non-evil mindflayer in the game (not so fast Emperor fans) is that he actively is working on a substitute for brain eating

what if they don't do evil shit though is there any nuance to it

>>714923809 (OP)
Because it's a slippery slope that leads to orcs being misunderstood Mexicans

Why is it not okay to have a race that is inherently evil?

>>714923809 (OP)
>literally talking to a good mind flayer
>WHY NO GOOD MINDF LAEYR
???

>>714925231
the only race that's inherently evil is white humans anon, get with the times

>>714924892
>He openly admits the only reason he hasn't succumb to his hunger regarding you is because he knows you'd kick his ass
When? I don't remember that

>>714923809 (OP)
Drow are chaotic evil. Therefore, they might do good things acidentally by mere random chance, but never intentionally (they're not chaotic neutral)

Illithids are lawful evil by nature. Their pride and rules don't allow for "accidental" kindness. Therefore, they are not going to allow such -mistakes- to ever happen.

>>714925564
drow come from the most fucked up society in all of forgotten realms though
really only male drow should be capable of empathy of any kind, female drow that haven't killed someone by age 5 get killed by their 3 year old sister

>>714925658
Agreed

>>714925696
and like, fucked up is putting it lightly, if Lolth stopped micromanaging the drow for even 5 minutes the entire society would devolve into a murder orgy of backstab variety that would see them extinct

Everyone knows their society would implode without Lolth, just like everyone knows that Lolth is responsible for that society in the first place and despite that they still opt-in to it

>>714923809 (OP)
It's not. Drow, Mindflayers, Goblins, Orcs, and Tieflings should all be evil.

>>714923809 (OP)
Because they are sexy elves. Nobody for example, says they want to redeem the evil demon, without first specifying the demon is in fact a succubus.

>>714925564
dude thinks Chaotic means random

>>714924754
wtf are you talking about
he literally wants you to sacrifice him in order to ensure that the duke is saved
this goes completely against mindflayers primary directive aka survival at any cost

>>714925986
you're retarded and need to stop replying to people on this website

>>714926205
i agree, but it's weird that you're talking to yourself while quoting me.

>>714926132
Remember he is a mindflayer, he can read your mind, if a mindflayer knows that you'll try to save him no matter what he says to you, he'd tell you to not save him because that way you're now convinced he's a good person precisely because of what you just said

remember every single thing a mindflayer chooses to say to you is manipulation of some sort, there's even an ingame book that literally spells this out to you

>>714923809 (OP)
They used to run an intergalactic slave empire across the multiverse
They still raise and groom humans and harvest them
They're evil

>>714926515
And then you leave him there and he dies, the end
Stop forcing your headcanon

>>714926750
did you leave him to die anon? or did you save him?
most people who rescued the duke also rescued him because the sort of person who'd bother to actually go save the duke will also go one step further and try to save everyone

>>714923809 (OP)
A drow being good I could see, if they were raised away from Drow society
Illithids reproduce through parasitizing sentient beings and need to eat the brains of sentient beings. Their very nature is antithetical to 'good', from the ground up.

>>714923809 (OP)
>lore says they can't be good
>but why?!

>>714926882
And then he gives you free shit if you DO save him and can be ordered to put himself back in danger. He's not "Good" in that he doesn't have an altruistic drive, but he's "good" in that his obsession and goals align with "good" goals.

>>714926914
If there can be good liches or vampires there can be good mind flayers.

>>714927090
>And then he gives you free shit if you DO save him
giving you shit for saving them is something lawful evil villains do, because it encourages you to keep saving them

That's something every single god damn mindflayer would do
Also given that you didn't deny it, you did save him didn't you?
That's part of what makes this work, everyone who actively got to that part resets until they can save Omeluum and the fact he asks you not to save him is what encourages you to save him

>>714927159
>If there can be good liches
No such thing, becoming a lich requires an act of pure evil so great that it can't be done by anyone with an intact moral compass
All liches are evil

>>714926914
What if they only parasitize and eat the brains of evil beings?

>>714927326
>no you see he's actually evil
>even though absolutely nothing indicates that
>but if you reload to save him that means he was reading your mind to merely pretend to not be evil
okay autismo

>>714927389
Is that still current lore?

>>714927403
I'm not saying he's evil
I'm saying he's not good either
mindflayers simply don't have the necessary emotions to ever be good

>>714927326
You know what every mindflayer would do if you saved them? Attempt to enthrall you because there's no reason to waste resources on inferiors.

>>714927484
they actively changed lichdom so that liches constantly need to feed souls to their phylactery rather than it being a one-and-done deal
so liches are even more evil than they were before because there's no such thing as a non-evil souleater

>>714927506
So what? He's neutral? We agree then. Alas, you're stil repeating headcanon because he has no problems dying simply because the Duke is objectively more valuable than him, he's not manipulating you or anything of the sort

>>714927551
unless they had reasons to believe enthralling you wouldn't work
which you know, it doesn't, you're far too mentally resistant and the risk of you turning them into calamari is far too great

mindflayers are the good guys actually

>>714924892
Are you going to post when he says that or not?

>>714923809 (OP)
They're not generally good because they're usually linked to a hive mind and the hive mind is usually evil

>>714927326
>game gives you an optional objective
>you see this PROVES it was manipulation!
The duke is trivial to save, Omeluum is the hardest to save by far and going for this insane reverse psychology doesn't work when only insane minmaxed builds with knowledge of every part of the mission can save him successfully on the higher difficulties. I spent more resources trying to perfect that on honor mode than I think I did in any bossfight in the entire game. Saying that it's manipulation because the MINDFLAYER knows the PLAYER has infinite resets is insane.

>>714927652
He doesn't try on anyone else in the lodge. He won't try even if your wisdom 8 and wearing the risky ring.

>>714927850
I'm saying it's manipulation because he knows that you've already decided the duke is priority
him telling you to save the duke over him is not going to hurt him in any way

Because if Omeluum had begged you to save him and leave the Duke to die instead, would you do that?
The answer to that is "fuck no" and if he begged like that you'd be more willing to let him drown

>>714927395
That's usually seen as a lesser evil and not neutral or good

>>714928083
It works for paladins

>>714927989
But that isn't pure self-interest. He'll beg you no matter what your character's inclinations are. If you go down there as the murder everyone durge, he's still going to beg you even if, should he read your mind, he'll find you're there to murder everyone personally. This is a terrible line of reasoning. He's not even "Good", he's just standard mindflayer bullshit but the thing he likes is "Good" aligned.

>>714928083
which is why the Emperor is evil
Omeluum is the only non-evil mindflayer precisely because he's actively trying to find a way to avoid eating brains, Emperor has decided that eating the brains of criminals is perfectly fine

>>714928083
Why? Paladins get to murder evil things all day and are "good".
>>714928162
I don't get the distinction between murdering a criminal as a lawful good vigilante and eating the brain of a criminal.

>>714928145
I'm just saying, there is no situation in which him telling you to prioritize the duke actively hurts him, and plenty of scenarios where it helps him

so it's not altruism in any meaningful sense of the word, there's nobody who would save him if it meant the duke dies, literally nobody would do that

>>714925231
It is ok to have a race that is inherently evil. But "the one guy from that race who is actually alright" is a good character trope. It is fertile ground for utter bros.

>>714928232
generally speaking paladins don't kill surrendering foes
Emperor would upon finding a surrendering thief go "sorry mate, I still need a brain to munch"

>>714928294
The Duke is literally easier to save than he is. By a mile. Duke is slightly to the left, and needs to be healed. Omeluum is the furthest possible from the gate, also strapped to a table, and it is assumed that you are throwing away a character to succeed this so hard that he has a teleport spell for him and whoever came to save him. He doesn't tell you this, it's not a 20d chess manipulation. If he said "Get me, I can teleport the duke safely" then it would be much more effective as a manipulation, because the strategy to save him first then send him back down to teleport the duke is reknowned.

>>714923809 (OP)
The mind flayer has to eat sapient brains to live, then hijacks your body and walks around in it.

>>714924349
Don't forget to take your Ziagen.

>>714923809 (OP)
In my opinion, the game can be interpreted however you want to play it
>Drow are bad and ebil
>But there are plenty of instances where they're good (Lol-lith's are still pretty huge cunts)
>It's just Minthara and the Stone-simp you ever remember
>Homeboy Omeluum is a total bro on several occasions, and even discusses exploring less mortal methods to sustain himself
>Meanwhile, The Emperor establishes he's a giant, manipulative cunt, including killing his BFF
>Withers is supposed to be a neutral party, so any of his opinions that say Mindflayers are 'soulless' contradict Bro-meluum

But sure, if you side with The Emperor means you sided with an evil asshole, and Withers is validated by saying mindflayers are cunts.

Personally, I'm a bit peeved the game gives you an impossible decision, but I became a mindflayer so Orpheus wouldn't be ostracized by his Gith brethren.

If it helps, I'm doing a morally good Durge playthrough while romancing Asterion. I haven't finished (stopped right at the final leg), so I figured it would be fitting to chill in the Underdark with my reformed vamp.

>>714928674
I kill sapient beings as an afterthought. I genocide a camp of goblins for their sins of being goblins, I'm lawful good. Eat ONE of their brains, I'm a monster.

>>714928232
Dungeons and Dragons and it's adjacent settings have the definitions of "Good", "Evil", "Lawful" and "Chaotic" arbitrated by divine beings. The answer to your question is that they're different because any Cleric can literally ask God and He says so.

>>714928723
>orpheus
Not my problem, hey Laezel fuck your whole retarded lawful evil race, come stay down here with me
>Orpheus then kills himself in protest

>>714923809 (OP)
>Evil party members tell me to take control of the brain
>get upset when I take control of the brain
Astarion you massive butt pirate rat eating emotionally stunted contrarian what did you think would happen I told you my dads the lord of murder, Atleast Minthara was rude or die till I stabbed her

>>714928841
Well, it sounds like you role played as a cunt, which I suppose you're entitled to, but you're throwing a whole race of survivors underneath a bus because they are being controlled and manipulated by a false god.

Orpheus[s/poiler] is a bit of a cunt, but seems to chill when you decide to become a mindflayer in his stead.

>>714929301
I didn't make him do that, and Laezel's entire life has been characterized by thankless duty to a fight that isn't hers. Voss isn't even bothered, he's winning exactly as hard whether he's leading the charge or Laezel or Orpheus is. Laezel takes up casual Vlaakith loyal genocide across the globe.

>no goblin romance
>no kobold romance
>no gnoll romance
>no drider romance
>no myconid romance
>no yuan ti romance
>not even hob romance
They really let the monster fucker community down

>>714929606
>>no gnoll romance

Fucking tell me about it...

>>714929606
Blame Wizards of the Coast for sanitizing the setting.
This faerun is meant to have Tabaxi strippers and the like.

>>714923809 (OP)
because illithids are extradimensional monsters whos minds literally operate on a different wavelength than natives, while drow are just jackasses that are generally kept as jackasses (and alive) by their insane micromanager god

>>714929908
>Blame Wizards of the Coast for sanitizing the setting.
>In a game where you can kill (goblin) children, fuck a druid in bear-form, and even side with any one of the Big Bads.

Did a video game focus group at one point, and we were all talking about fantasy games (it was for the now cancelled Hogwarts Legacy DLC which probably being turned into a sequel.) At one point, someone mentioned wanting to play BG3 for the 'bear scene,' which had more than one person in the group question it.

I told them to look it up on Youtube...

Canon is playing a gith and having karlach turn into a mindflayer so you laezel and orpheus go fight vlakith

>>714929908
I mean I get thst but at the same time it just feels stupid to simultaneously put druid bear fucking in your marketing but then draw the line at a space elf and a mind flayer (who of course gets an obligatory human form).

>>714930560
Pretty sure canon is you sacrificing yourself, otherwise Wyll won't have anyone to buddy with in Avernus if you get his 'good' ending.

The game goes pretty hard about how a Sharan previously saved the city/world, so why not a mindflayer?

>>714930391
Yeah, this is a setting where incest is normal as long as it doesn't produce kids, and there is a brothel in every major settlement.
It was made by a actually dirty hippie boomer who developed a momydom kink because his own mom died when he was 7.

>>714930776
well i guess you being gith part can be changed, but saving orpheus and not having him become illithid is canon

>>714931087
New studio, so who gives a fuck?

That's like saying Nintendo still makes good games because you happened to play Paper Mario on the Gamecube.

if drow can overcome their evil nature so can mindflayers

>>714923809 (OP)
is it possible to breed minthra yet?

>>714923809 (OP)
I figured the Emperor was a good guy. We touched tentacle's and ervryyy tang.

>>714931290
Hey man, I'm just saying that the setting used to be a lot more sexual.
Also its still technically canon the dude is still around making content and has a legal agreement with whoever is the rights holder of the forgotten realms and D&D baked in where everything he says is canon unless otherwise directly contradicted by a officially published source.

>>714931315
I think thats been an option since the beta. Or do you mean make her pregnant and have your kid? Check LoversLab, they probably have you covered.

>>714931315
>Rescued Minthara because I'm a bleeding heart
>Regret it going into Act 3 because she's so comically evil

The only dialogue I'll give her a pass on is having the refugees work and contribute, which swiftly evaporated when she strongly implied slavery.

>>714924892
>He wouldn't try to kill and eat an elephant with his bare hands

>>714931480
She's a straight drow, she's as evil as Astarion.

>>714931474
I suppose you can have a threesome with the Drow twins, but I doubt they could fuck each other without a customer in the middle...

>>714931480
>Regret it going into Act 3 because she's so comically evil
I figured she was just boring. She likes ruthless actions to further your goal but she lacked personality. Its like a pet rock who likes whatever you do in a Durge run lol

>>714925564
Even in the context of Forgotten Realms stuff I know about Viconia, Minthara, and Drizzt's sister are all capable of being genuinely altruistic

>>714931480
>>714931602
You can really tell she was a super late addition to the party after the beta testers kept simping for her..

>>714931669
>Viconia
Boy do I have bad news for you

>>714927850
I played the whole game greatly underleveled and completely blind despite turning all the difficulty sliders to max in custom mode and I still thought it was easy to save everyone. I was only level 7 at the time too.

Most players are simply really stupid, the game is INCREDIBLY easy to anyone with a brain.

>>714927326
>giving you shit for saving them is something lawful evil villains do, because it encourages you to keep saving them
You're painting a hilarious picture of a villain so evil that he spends his life pretending to be good, helping the heroes, earning their trust, manipulating one into falling in love with him, giving her children a good education and setting them up for success, and then in his last moments as he's on his deathbed surrounded by his family going "OH FUCK I FORGOT TO ACTUALLY DO THE EVIL PART"

If you keep doing the "pretending to be a good guy" stuff your entire life and never get around to cashing that in for something evil you're just a softie who mentally larps as a bad guy for fun.

>>714929606
>>714931585
I honestly have no idea why they didn't just give us more options for casual hook ups. I get they wanted to keep the actual romance stuff centered on the major characters but the brothel is so limited.

>>714931901
BG3 is a different canon

>>714923809 (OP)
they don't not follow conventional moral systems, they are alien.
>>714924140
not in the common material plane sense but they do have something similar as they have deities.

>>714924591
The Emperor isn't supposed to be good, he openly acknowledges that he's only helping you out of cynical self-interest.

How's your current playthrough going?

I made a Ranger and based her off Xochitl.

>>714931993
Yeah, it's not bad, you just need scrolls and movement speed, with enough shit to instantly kill sahaugin. But it's harder than any bossfight in the game.

>>714923809 (OP)
>why is it okay to have a good Drow
It isn't. Both things you listed shouldn't be allowed. Fuck all leftist trannies.

>>714932354
Solo, homicidal maniac changeling.

>>714933342
Not everything is a political agenda lil bro

>>714923809 (OP)
mindflayers are monsters, not pcs

>>714933342
Drizz't is older than you are, lil bro. Sit down

I am good and want to fuck a drow therefore drow can be good

>>714933636
You don't have to be good to fuck a Drow anon

>>714930391
of all the silly sex shit people pulled off with D&D games since the early 80s, WHY THE FUCK IS THE GENERIC DRUID BEAR SEX the most popular?!
I'm not even going to count the generic ass elf sex (the druid in question included) from other games because by the 90s people expected shit like Viconia, Aerie, Aribeth, Gann. I'm talking about how suddenly Halsin is THE bear that invented degeneracy in Faerun, when in NWN SOTU we had a fucking kobold group kidnapping a chick plus the same kobold clan has a leader that almost sold off his fucking cousing to marry you, as a "joke".
Let's not forget elanee who is also a druid so she can go all mother bear on your ass, but is also a kindred degenerate like halsin, but instead of being a sex pest she's a fucking groomer. but nooooo halsing oooooooooooooo
fucking human cocks are bigger than bear cocks he isn't even compensating anything besides acting as a pillow there

You can get a fucking mind flayer bad end in hordes of the underdark, date a tiefling gaylord, date a planetar, BEFRIEND A GIANT SPIDER (girl), fuck a fucking half-hag weirdo. Even fucking Aerie is barely of age and you can knock her up... as a "joke"? And nobody talks about how Viconia DeFUCKINGvir literally got raped between BG1 and 2 and she spills you out that story. but no, generic bear sex lol lmaooooooooooooooooo.

God I fucking hate how vanilla the majority of you fucks are. Look I'm working on balor cock size logistics here and everyone just NOW found out that druids can change shape? Thank fucking god huh? maybe in BG4 we will have some red haired half dragon girl in a blue plate bikini whose only dragon features are a stupid ass tiny tail and pitifully small wings and the general folk will call themselves degeneracy incarnate for simping for a girl with props stuck on her ass.

>>714931087
With the large number of whore gods you'd think that you can get away with incest even producing kids as long as you pray.

>>714925231
because that's a racist antisemitic dog whistle

>>714925231
Because D&D became all about picking your favorite cosplay race for purely aesthetic reasons, and the idea that your choice of heckin epic blorbo comes with narrative implications and consequences is anathema to the golden calf that is player choice. People will make up other bullshit reasons and draw parallels to real world racism and all that nonsense, but those are all just excuses to obfuscate the aforementioned pathetic reality.

>>714933960
I mean wizards are a bunch of fags but 5th edition has had incredibly harsh RaW bullshit for anyone trying to rp non human races since they were officially added.

>>714927484
I don't know shit about nu lore but in case you were still wondering, the "good liches" you were thinking about are probably baelnorns who aren't really standard liches

>>714933960
Its not that simple. 4th was THE special snowflake edition amd its still well liked by most. 5th explicitly cut back on player self expression (RIP gnoll PCs) only for WotC to come in later and try and haphazardly tack ot back on under the guise of social justice

>>714927389
Incorrect. Lichdom can easily be achieved without the use of heinous evil. Heinous evil just makes the process easier for weak or impatient mages
All you need to be a Lich is an object capable of containing a soul, a Method for capturing said soul, and said soul to be removed from your body.
In order to permanently bind your soul in a method that allows regular reconstruction that also renders your phylactery artifact-level, you need epic magic. Lessening the strain of such a spell requires a specialized ritual, which can use the mass-sacrifice of innocents, particular celestial alignments, ley-line Manipulation, feeding off a dead or living god, or just attaching the spell to a big fuckoff magic crystal you found.
Separating the soul requires anything from murdering a close friend to consuming a deadly poison specifically designed to loosen the soul.
Any entity that told you being a lich was evil wants you to perform evil acts for their own personal shits and giggles.

>>714931215
proof?

>>714935963
Hello can you fuel a soul binding spell with mass rape? Rape is torture after all

>>714936930
It's roughly a 5-1 ratio if you do that, and that's using Virgins. I'd recommend in that instance setting it up as an offering to a dark god, as they will offer additional power in exchange for such an act. Moreso, if you also corrupt or mind control heroic individuals to do so.

>>714925231
it's just not very interesting world building wise, an "evil race" as a result of how their society is structured is much better because it allows for outsiders of that society to exist as individuals, and lends itself more to a more fleshed out background because you can point to aspects of the overall lore to explain behaviors instead of going
>they are baddies because they are bad

>>714923809 (OP)
People who get attached to forgotten realms lore are retarded; you’re supposed to make your own setting

>>714935963
Sorry anon even with that 5e made it so being a lich also requires you to eat souls on a consistent basis to empower your phylactery.