Thread 714956539 - /v/ [Archived: 491 hours ago]

Anonymous
7/9/2025, 11:50:00 AM No.714956539
IMG_7019
IMG_7019
md5: 7a878cfffdf290df7f38ccc71c66cee3🔍
Facts
Replies: >>714957045 >>714957097 >>714957212 >>714957513 >>714957985 >>714958116 >>714958203 >>714958846 >>714958986 >>714959205 >>714960874
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 11:51:17 AM No.714956610
040223
040223
md5: 2edd34c0da6f0b55a68eaf7d3ebe7452🔍
LOL
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 11:55:07 AM No.714956771
Miyazaki's ideas for Demons Souls' multiplayer are more interesting than anything kojima has ever done
>all multiplayer features stripped out of Miyazaki's games after DS2
LOL
Replies: >>714957742
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:01:15 PM No.714957045
>>714956539 (OP)
I really dont get what's Miyzaki's problem with difficulty settings. What is exactly happening when someone has an easier time than someone else? Does the struggler experiences some form of internal bleeding? mental shutdown? No? Then what's the problem exactly? It feels bad because his struggle was pointless because easier method gets the same reward? I was under the impression that the struggle itself is the reward. You know, the whole "journey" argument. Why would the struggler care if someone got something easy when his satisfaction is entierly based on him getting it the hard way? Again, what's the problem here? I am led to believe that the strugglers are so much tougher and resilient than you. You are better than me right? Then why must you perform a pavlovian dog response by always typing "you didn't beat the game". I thought you're in control. Why do you need to reply to this post with "skill issue" rather than to continue enjoy your struggle?
Replies: >>714957187 >>714957980 >>714958197 >>714958980
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:02:50 PM No.714957097
>>714956539 (OP)
summons are the easy mode
Replies: >>714960332
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:04:44 PM No.714957187
>>714957045
bait but in reality a game is about game play and difficulty settings fundamentally alter that
why would you even want to play armored core or dark souls or sekiro? the story isn't the focus
Replies: >>714957470 >>714959067
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:05:25 PM No.714957212
1750574896238096
1750574896238096
md5: eb3f8993d7a8872d90abc223c78a5c4e🔍
>>714956539 (OP)
>Overcome the challenge that suits them as a player

Okay
>summons mimic tear
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:11:00 PM No.714957470
>>714957187
Your reality is not my reality. I can in fact play from software games by casually grinding through them and not interacting with core gameplay mechanics in a meaningful way. Why would I? Those video games are toys meant for my entertainment. If I wanted to prove something, I'd go achieve something in real life.
Replies: >>714957584
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:12:00 PM No.714957513
difficulty
difficulty
md5: 92741f0b98bfdd47bcc073bf7ba46b83🔍
>>714956539 (OP)
.
Replies: >>714958059 >>714959018
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:13:34 PM No.714957584
>>714957470
then go do that, why do you care if you can't play a game?
Replies: >>714957670
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:15:08 PM No.714957670
>>714957584
I can. My problem is devs and other gamers who get bent out of shape if I enjoy their thing "the wrong way for the wrong reasons".
Replies: >>714957738 >>714957756 >>714957818 >>714959096
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:16:19 PM No.714957738
>>714957670
dark souls' core gameplay loop is that if you suck you can grind your way through it
Replies: >>714957789
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:16:23 PM No.714957742
>>714956771
do you really think miyahacki invented invasions lmao
fromdrones are a hoot
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:16:39 PM No.714957756
>>714957670
That's why you don't engage with them.
Replies: >>714957870
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:17:22 PM No.714957789
>>714957738
I know. We already covered that. This isn't about gameplay, this is about toxic fanbase who chimp out whenever someone violates the orthodoxy. Why?
Replies: >>714957835
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:17:58 PM No.714957818
>>714957670
You're making mountains out of mole hills if your problem is what faggots think how you play online.
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:18:15 PM No.714957835
>>714957789
if you hack in giving yourself max level when you start ff7 you did not really play the game, you watched a lets play
Replies: >>714957923
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:18:54 PM No.714957870
>>714957756
What if they forcefully engage with you and shit up your space?
Replies: >>714958021
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:19:55 PM No.714957923
>>714957835
Who said anything about hacking? You did, not me.
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:20:51 PM No.714957980
>>714957045
>normal mode guy: yoo this first dungeon is crazy
>easy mode guy: imo it was pretty boring
>hard mode guy: wtf how can you say that have you even played the game
Replies: >>714958051
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:20:55 PM No.714957985
>>714956539 (OP)
Both are only attached to dogshit.
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:21:37 PM No.714958021
>>714957870
No one is forcing you to talk to them and they're single player games. A one done deal. I don't see any fag lingering with the fanbase unless pvp cancer. Community is for women.
Replies: >>714958792
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:22:23 PM No.714958051
>>714957980
>normal mode guy: yoo this first dungeon is crazy
>easy mode guy: yoo this first dungeon is crazy
>hard mode guy: yoo this first dungeon is crazy
fixed.
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:22:33 PM No.714958059
>>714957513
These are all perfectly reasonable points of view for the respective games they developed
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:23:34 PM No.714958116
>>714956539 (OP)
I have never played a game with more meaningless difficulty settings than death stranding 2. The only difference on brutal is how much damage you take, and how quickly cargo containers deteriorate in the time fall (a non factor except for a single mission where gas leaks from your cargo when the container is damaged by timefall)
everything in regards to traversal (the primary gameplay element) is completely unchanged, which is why the whole game feels like baby mode even on brutal
Replies: >>714958304 >>714958481
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:25:08 PM No.714958197
>>714957045
every action game discussion has retards that only play on the easiest difficulty and know litrrally nothing about the games because they just walked through one hitting everything with basic attacks and never needing to dodge/block
if that isn't a meaningful difference on the discourse idk what is, there are so many people that will say "x is spammy" because they played on babbymode
Replies: >>714958406
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:25:10 PM No.714958203
>>714956539 (OP)
literally the only game Miyazaki has made that supports his supposed philosophy is Sekiro
Replies: >>714958652
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:26:17 PM No.714958273
1575839804639
1575839804639
md5: f2ec3489f54617b6b4356add411e8d11🔍
>Hideo Kojima
Washed the fuck out and coasting on past fame which, if you think about it, wasn't fully even his. Fukushima, co-writers, KojiPro members and people responsible for translating his games should get as much credit as him. His takes are absolutely fucking abysmal and he's more interested in meeting Hollywood stars and huffing his own farts which shows, since DS1 and DS2 are mediocre. His takes on difficulty are worthless since the last game anyone played from him was V and it was piss easy either way.

>Miyazaki
Made the same game 80 times, only pushed it forward with Elden Ring and even then it's mainly just an open world gimmick now. Fatigue has well set in. His take on difficulty is hilariously retarded since you can play magic builds (trivializes the game) and summon for bosses (trivializes the game).

>Cookie
Hasn't made anything good ever. Lived through the best ages of vidya and even then he created shit that's mediocre at best. He's only known for the fact that his face looks like a fucking oatmeal cookie. Opinion disregarded, even though he's right.

>Kawazu
This guy was very quickly understood by the industry to be retarded (his games were abysmally difficult to the point of tedium - ie. OG Final Fantasy 2) and relegated to a place where he could do the least reputation damage possible (SaGa series). His take is weird because his style of difficulty is the most direct way to tedium, ergo boredom. If you play his games it's pretty obvious he's a sociopath. Based, but he's biologically unable to have a reasonable take on difficulty.

Nice bait, I bet most people on /v/ would have better takes on difficulty than these four fucks.
Replies: >>714958495 >>714958546 >>714958669 >>714958761 >>714959078
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:26:52 PM No.714958304
>>714958116
absolutely wrong, on low difficulties you don't even need to grip your cargo you can entirely manage it through analog direction
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:28:43 PM No.714958406
>>714958197
>if that isn't a meaningful difference on the discourse idk what is
it isn't, because regardless of how you play the game, people will tell you that "you didn't beat the game" and invent all sorts of goalposts to support that claim. for example, you didn't beat elden ring if you used a mimic tear, you didn't beat elden ring if you used summons, you didn't beat elden ring if you used rivers of blood, you didn't beat elden ring if you didn't beat consort radahn before the nerf etc.

players will always try to find an argument to gap other players because they do NOT WANT an equal discussion
Replies: >>714958556
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:29:53 PM No.714958481
>>714958116
when you don't have a properly tuned difficulty the gameplay itself is not designed in an intentional manner
see bugthesda games
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:30:14 PM No.714958495
>>714958273
miyazaki made sekiro though
Replies: >>714958674
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:31:12 PM No.714958546
>>714958273
>Washed the fuck out and coasting on past fame which, if you think about it, wasn't fully even his. Fukushima, co-writers, KojiPro members and people responsible for translating his games should get as much credit as him
I agree
After reading what fukushima did, seeing other members of kojipro go on to be just as successful, and reading the interviews of those localizers he gets far too much credit
there's a reason most of his games after metal gear solid 3 are mediocre
Replies: >>714958674
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:31:19 PM No.714958556
>>714958406
retarded comparison, your example is people saying you made the challenge easier, while the issue at hand is people saying their experience was bad because they played on easy where enemies just stand still and die
Replies: >>714958835
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:33:20 PM No.714958652
>>714958203
sekiro still has levelups so it's still cringe garbage because attack maxxing vs attack minning are night and day differences
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:33:46 PM No.714958669
>>714958273
Cookie saved Ninja Gaiden and gave us hot women.
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:33:50 PM No.714958674
>>714958495
And it's his best game to date, fair enough. I still think it's an exception to the rule which reinforces the rule.

>>714958546
Peace Walker has good elements and it's the only game post MGS3 that feels 'fun' and unapologetically retarded without the feeling that Kojima read something pseudointelligent (that he didn't understand) and tried to insert it into the game to make it more serious on purpose. So PW still has parts of that MGS soul in it.

Other than that you're completely correct, and PW is indeed mediocre but more due to the limitations of the PSP rather than anything else.
Replies: >>714959159
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:35:44 PM No.714958761
GRQWPbvXgAAUX2m
GRQWPbvXgAAUX2m
md5: efe1fedcf2cf7e53e6a2bac717fc0bd6🔍
>>714958273
>since you can play magic builds (trivializes the game) and summon for bosses (trivializes the game).
Thats pretty much his whole point
He wants everyone facing the same enemies and stats and choosing the tools and gear they wanna use to beat it in whatever way they want, having all sorts of different playstyles work with the same rules for everybody, any ammount of damage dealt or taken ammounting for the same quantity for all players when they are talking about it and sharing experiences, etc
And its not like "magic trivializes the game" isnt extremely reductive : ER is much more RPGey and theres three billion overpowered builds across different types of "classes" at this point

Its unequivocally a lot better for discussion than a similary unbalanced game (those games are probably less balanced) that ends up dividing people heavily across difficulty settings; ive been playing a souls ripoff combat game that just introduced shitty difficulty settings, and the way they went about so many numbers like health damage poise etc just shat up discussion so hard because people arent on the same page, and two people playing on the same difficulty arent even on the same level of challenge depending on how much vertical progression they go through but retards will still wanna take it as a dick measuring contest
Replies: >>714959318
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:36:33 PM No.714958792
>>714958021
The jannies force it by not cleaning up their posts
And I wouldn't want them to because that's an authoritarian dilemma
It's a lose-lose situation
Replies: >>714959032
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:37:47 PM No.714958835
>>714958556
doesn't matter because it does not change how the discourse is affected in the end. otherwise people wouldn't put others down by having played the game a different way, the same way they do when someone chose the easy option. not to mention that AI breaks in a way that makes you not engage with the game when you summon ashes or coop players so it might as well be what you said
Replies: >>714958905
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:37:59 PM No.714958846
>>714956539 (OP)
the two biggest hacks of the gaming industry
only pump cucks will disagree
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:39:14 PM No.714958905
>>714958835
you're retarded, eat breakfast tomorrow morning and read a book
Replies: >>714958929
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:39:49 PM No.714958929
>>714958905
nice argument
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:40:52 PM No.714958980
>>714957045
Which restaurant is likely to have the best pizza? The restaurant that sells sushi, salads, pasta, meat. burgers, soups, etc or the restaurant that only sells pizza? Which restaurant is likely to have the best Margherita pizza the restaurant that sells a bunch of pizzas or the restaurant that exclusively sells Margheritas?
Adding options makes the game shit. Any game with difficulty options is a 6/10 at best.
Replies: >>714959024
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:41:03 PM No.714958986
>>714956539 (OP)
what the fuck kind of name is "Mads", I fucking hate celebrities and the retarded made up names they come up for themselves
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:41:50 PM No.714959018
hk
hk
md5: ea305c38c12752cd2469464667d9e0cc🔍
>>714957513
Action adventure games in cool worlds with tight and somewhat demanding gameplay -> Miyazaki's approach is better
The above but not very deliberately made and much sillier -> An in between of Kojima and Itagaki
More loose adventures without as much focus on tight action and moreso on vibes and shit -> Kojima's approach is better
Applicable for just about about any high-action game ever -> Kawazu as long as its not something like 999 damage numbers

whatever -> Itagaki because ultimately it doesnt have anything to do with the quality of the gameplay
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:42:04 PM No.714959024
>>714958980
then why is alien soldier the best game ever made?
Replies: >>714959170
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:42:17 PM No.714959032
>>714958792
Ignoring them like Deltatroon threads works 100% of the time and there's a filter search to hide the bad threads that you don't want to see. Just put the no n o words on there each visit and most of them will poof out of existence.
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:42:51 PM No.714959067
>>714957187
>the story isn't the focus
story is definitely a gigantic focus of the latest AC and a few previous ACs
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:43:05 PM No.714959078
>>714958273
every souls game past demons and dark feels like a chore to play
Replies: >>714959196
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:43:23 PM No.714959096
>>714957670
You might have undiagnosed schizophrenia. None of the devs or gamers know who you are or give a shit what you think or do.
Replies: >>714959130
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:44:06 PM No.714959130
>>714959096
he's an NPC, they suffer from magical thinking like schizos do
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:44:34 PM No.714959159
>>714958674
I read a very schizo theory that had some proof regarding each mgs sequel
they're all subtexts regarding kojima's own relationship with his team and sequels
the boss & her legacy is him being unable to quit working on mgs
mgs4 is basically him resenting that he's working on the series (old snake), in fact he wanted old snake and otacon to be executed at the end but konami wouldn't let him
mgsv is probably the final fuck you slop
I have no idea why mgs peacewalker was good maybe he was having a good day or on adderall or something
anyway mgs4/5 are essentially insults to the fans & critics
Replies: >>714959747
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:44:45 PM No.714959170
>>714959024
Good on you trying to imply that anon isn't American, because they've never heard of Alien Soldier.
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:45:13 PM No.714959196
>>714959078
Are you the type to fall for every FOMO? Don't force yourself to play something you truly loathe more than twice.
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:45:26 PM No.714959205
>>714956539 (OP)
anyone has that pic of that anon that shat out yoji shinkawa
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:47:54 PM No.714959318
>>714958761
The problem is that there's two groups of people who approach the game with vastly different mindsets and depending on the toolset chosen will have widely different difficulties. This then fuels the discord when one group actually had to exert some level of effort to beat the game and then another basically just sat back and jerked off.

Accomodating different playstyles and toolsets is great but the game is not balanced for all of them. If he wasn't retarded with his takes and actually stood by what he said, he'd find a way to seriously penalize summoning (I don't know, beating a boss with a summon gives you 1/15th of the souls or you take much higher damage/boss aggros to the summoner much more), and would optimize magic builds to the point where the player would still have to learn the boss and their moveset to beat them.
Replies: >>714959464 >>714959810
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:50:54 PM No.714959464
>>714959318
ac6 does the whole customize to make fights easier thing much better than dark souls as well
Replies: >>714959924
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:56:27 PM No.714959747
1549709075308
1549709075308
md5: 79d13df601dce7df406952a4361dffe0🔍
>>714959159
>I have no idea why mgs peacewalker was good maybe he was having a good day or on adderall or something
I think it's because he didn't take it too seriously, ironically enough. He had a breather after the clustefuck that was MGS4, he looked at the cold war-era ideologies and social events and just fucked around making the game for a portable system.

With 4 I doubt he deliberately made it shit, I think it's just karmic punishment for doing three games and making shit up as he went along - he didn't have ANY fucking plan for 1, 2, 3 and it caught up with him. His style at the time still relied on long cutscenes and he went way overboard with everything, it was always going to end that way.

GZ was a great teaser but V is just mind-bogglingly fucking shitty to me, V is the one I think where he maybe started with a plan but then after Konami started fucking with him he course corrected and just took one giant deliberate shit on a page and called it a script. I also think that somewhere around GZ/V is where he lost the ability to be interesting, farts huffing took over his brain, nobody could challenge him on shitty ideas and he became a full-on retard, spurred on by the industry and Geoff. The results are seen in Death Stranding.

But that's just my blog so maybe I'm completely wrong.
Replies: >>714961227
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 12:58:11 PM No.714959810
>>714959318
>will have widely different difficulties
thats fine really, this isnt really what fucks up the discussion
The good thing here is that X damage will be either huge or small equally for all players. If something rapes the poise of an enemy, you know that an equivalent or stronger thing with the same poise damage and hit rate will rape it for everybody. You know the boss has about this much health, how strong something sounds, and all that
And at least the enemies themselves have been the same for everybody: That one hard to escape and distance boss nuke/combo should probably be felt by everybody, nothing will be slowed down or sped up for others, all that shit

>t but the game is not balanced for all of them.
for most of the souls games, yeah its unfortunate, but i still think this game feels way better balanced than almost all its competitors that ive tried. It has much higher lows, far less instances of the game feeling like shit, and even the strongest of souls magic will rarely make the game feel like as much of a snorefest as in other games. Even ridiculous stuff like lategame DS1 soulmass, you probably felt like you earned it to some degree, which is more that can be said for a lot of these games (provided they actually have the playstyle variety)
Elden Ring is a much looser RPGer game though. 100 hours of progression, fighting power with power, silly shit all around, the player meant to evolve beyond a generic souls character and it gets boring if they dont, all that shit. I think the lower balance feels specifically better there, and after all its just the "im overpowered!!" unbalance and not the "wow this games' damage calculations, enemy poise, etc mechanics make it feel shit to play" unbalance

Recently i played No Rest For the Wicked, the one similar style of game that seems to be aiming for a cool interconnected world like Fromsoft does. But that games' balance is ass all around that it becomes really hard to hate on fromsoft's after trying it
Replies: >>714960159
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 1:00:41 PM No.714959924
gfg
gfg
md5: 00f672c47280b767575dff79742b8d45🔍
>>714959464
>zimmermemes, that one dual grenade launcher, sneedles
>tons of shitters whining about balteus and then the complaints about difficulty suddenly drop off a cliff as soon as busted meta shit becomes available
>normal damage weapons being ridiculously shit against shield enemies
it really didnt

Also, desu that game feels best played by just making your own generalistic mech that you love and grow into, taking down most bosses in 1-2 tries and enduring against stronger foes. Making a specific mech just to hardcounter a particular boss often feels a lot staler
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 1:04:45 PM No.714960159
>>714959810
>lategame DS1 soulmass
Well, to be fair, DS1 is a trivial game for any playstyle as long as you remember to upgrade your weapons. We're talking taking off 1/6th of Artorias' healthbar with one-swing, so long that you've remembered to two-hand your Greatsword +10.

You're probably right that FROM still does balance better than the competitors but the gap between some players trivializing the games with summons and some players having to try a single boss 20 times as they learn them will always shit up the discussion. Magic shitters and summoners will always be the casual losers that other people laugh at and this will always lead to discord.

The only way to eliminate this is either removing magic/summons entirely (like Sekiro did) or balancing them way more.
Replies: >>714960863
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 1:08:03 PM No.714960332
>>714957097
4thpbp
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 1:19:31 PM No.714960863
>>714960159
>We're talking taking off 1/6th of Artorias' healthbar with one-swing, so long that you've remembered to two-hand your Greatsword +10.
thats a huge exageration, you need more than that
a chaos zweihander first heavy attack with 10 humanities boosted by Power Within will deal about 1/7 of his health for insatnce
Replies: >>714961008
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 1:19:40 PM No.714960874
>>714956539 (OP)
>We have real actors
>REAL ACTORS
>real actors
>REAL ACTORS
Voice actors tried their hardest for decades to be taken seriously, but then the biggest guy (4U) in video game public space came out and indirectly saying that their works are not real acting. lmao.
Replies: >>714961383
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 1:22:18 PM No.714961008
>>714960863
It's still easy as fuck. For a newcomer it's going to be hard of course but if you're fully upgraded the only bosses that pose a challenge are Manus (because of his combos and shitty darkness gimmick) and Kalameet (because the fucker easily flies up and roasts you due to the camera so you have to learn to play without lock-on, essentially). O&S early on also if you're new to positioning in a fight.
Replies: >>714964490
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 1:23:27 PM No.714961060
Zoomers never heard of European Extreme, huh?
Replies: >>714961131
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 1:24:45 PM No.714961131
>>714961060
Not present in any of Kojima's games since.. 4? 3?
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 1:26:31 PM No.714961227
>>714959747
The people who enjoy TPP make me feel like a schizo. Everything in GZ was far better. GZ and TPP are good examples of how open world ruins a game. Elden Ring has the same thing going on with Sekiro & Dark Souls being far better games.
Replies: >>714963648
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 1:29:36 PM No.714961383
>>714960874
Saddest part is the voice actors did a way better job whereas the actual actors come off as bored and lazy
David Hayter really enjoyed the role
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 2:12:05 PM No.714963648
>>714961227
TPP has a lot more going on for starters. The whole ideal of TPP was the freedom to infiltrate from wherever and whenever. GZ was more railroaded in that department but of course gave you extremely little in terms of weapons and gadgets as well, just one suit too. I really want a fully realized TPP or at least a spiritual successor because its definitely deeply flawed and half baked.
Replies: >>714964160
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 2:20:13 PM No.714964160
>>714963648
>The whole ideal of TPP was the freedom to infiltrate from wherever and whenever
in theory but then you realize the game is built around tranqing and fultoning everything you see
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 2:25:59 PM No.714964490
>>714961008
i honestly found o&s, four kings, gwyn, etc all much harder than kalameet
kalameet is easy even if you depend a lot on LO
Replies: >>714964992
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 2:35:24 PM No.714964992
>>714964490
I always play these games with a UGS so maybe it also depends if you're more of a STR or DEX fag. But yeah, I can see Four Kids being annoying as well. For O&S it depends HEAVILY on how upgraded your shit is.