where should the balance lie? casual or comp?

>>714971715 (OP)
>this shitty meme again
if you arent gonna balance the game around the people who actually know how to play then why bother balancing at all?

>>714971715 (OP)
>MALren

>>714971950
You forgot the Asa pic

wherever my skill level is at is the gold standard.

>>714971715 (OP)
At a casual level, the answer to any balance question is just to get better.

>>714971715 (OP)
balancing is the most overrated thing to """fix""" in an online game
the most fun people have is when its completely unbalanced
people still remember mw2 and how broken the game was because every other weapon or kill streak was completely busted and thats from like 15 years ago

you balance your game mechanics around comp play but still design game modes for casuals

it should be balanced around the average player aka between competitive and casual

>>714971715 (OP)
The problem is that instead of removing fun elements, devs should just buff everyone else. And wholesome headpats, kisses, snuggles and sex with Frieren

>>714971715 (OP)
It's impossible to balance for shitters as they lack fundamental knowledge about the game or just skill, something will always be broken for them
It's impossible to balance for compfags because they have too much fundamental knowledge about the game and will ruin their own fun, either by doing the same strategies over and over or abusing glitches, then they'll cry to you to fix (read: change) the meta
Developers should focus on making the game fun instead

>>714971806
Because balancing a game for 14 specific people alienates the core of your market, dipshit.
I swear to God, this place makes you dumber the longer you participate

>>714971715 (OP)
Segregate the weapons and equipment between casual and comp. Casuals keep the sandbox tuned for fun while compfags get altered variants that they can bitch to the devs about

>>714971806
If you balance your game only listening to the top players your game is going to end up being nothing but flat arenas with all originality trimmed from it. Look at games like Starcraft 2 where the whims of pros were listened to and enabled and see the fucking map pool today compared to what we had a decade ago and where the unit balance is in a worst state than it was at launch. Look at games where the "professional" community dictates what stages are legal to play on (no I am not going to name the game because I dont want to be called a tendie but you know exactly what I am talking about) and how a singular ramp can be the basis for a stage to be banned. Look at any numerous games chasing esports fame and see how much of the soul was sucked out of the game in pursuit of appeasing these fucks and how quickly many of them died.
In the best case top players are bias to how they play and will suggest ways to reinforce that way of play, in the worst case they will be actively malicious and suck all the soul out of a game. We have plenty of examples of the latter so fuck listening to these people only, devs should listen to a broad spectrum of people actually playing the fucking game and keep to their vision above all else.

comp, and the game should facilitate people into forming groups rather than playing solo q

>Developer rebalances their game to alter the meta

>>714972517
This. The Rocket launcher in Halo. Awp in CS. Noob toob/chopper gunner/ac130 in CoD. Vehicles in Battlefields. etc.

All "good" (popular) games are inherently unbalanced.
>inb4 sum bs about balancing using economy or time when skilled players find ways around both of those (feeding let's you bypass economy, esoteric map knowledge that lets you bypass time or effort requirements).

>>714971806
Because usually the first solution that comes to mind isn't the best one. Looking at top players for balance in game that is also played casually can work, but top players and casuals are playing different game in the end
Let's say there is a hypothetical hero fps game named "Battlefuckers". In Battlefuckers, there are several classes with unlockable weapons.
Now there is a special unlockable grenade launcher for class named Shitface with a special attack that has a huge blast radius, but you have to charge it for like 5 seconds and you can barely move with it on top of it taking all of your ammo. In casual environment it's a silly mini nuke people meme with and is seen as funny sidegrade.
However in competitive setting, that weapon is useless because the top players in their 5v5 premade vc teams with meta loadouts can instantly kill a player who is standing still for 5 seconds.
Solution?
"Buff" that weapon. Reduce the charge time to 1.5 seconds, reduce blast radius to 25% of the original blast radius and change the ammo it takes to 25% of your max ammo. Buff the base damage of the weapon by 10%.
Now the comp players *might* use it, but casuals are the ones that suffer the most. The weapon isn't fun to use anymore and the new "buff" fucks it up.
Example 2:
Class named Underpants has a pistol named Ripuli. Ripuli pistol in competitive has been considered absolutely broken due to it healinh your teammates around you a whenever you hit enemies. On it's own it's not op but combined with support class Gaylord with AOE team speedboost, it makes rushdown playstyle too powerful.
In casual it's considered a fun sidegrade as it does less damage but you can be helpful for your team.
Solution?
Nerf. Remove healing, and slap small damage buff with a damage vulnerability so it has more "risk vs reward element". Underpants shouldn't be able to heal others as it's not a support class.
Casuals are of course just confused. But now the pistol is meta in comp and "balanced"

>>714971715 (OP)
Low barrier to entry, high skill ceiling. That's all you need.

>>714971715 (OP)
Compies ruin games. Well known fact

>>714973685
>anime girl pfp poster thinks anyone cares about or will read his opinion. This has not been an anime website in decades. Don't bother responding. You're a faggot and I'm leaving.

>>714973584
???
The AWP is fucking balanced though. No crosshair, hipfire accuracy is abysmal, scoped-in FOV is so low some dude can crouch walk below you, firerate is slow and movement speed is horribly slow.
The one hit CHEST hit in comparison is warranted.
It would be unbalanced if you could bhop across the map with full on Q3 Railgun accuracy without ever scoping in.

The only shit that's not balanced in CS are the lmgs which have no purpose right now.

>>714971715 (OP)
competitive is for jobless faggots with no life or achievements to speak of so they try and live through the game itself and try to find fulfillment via constantly min maxing their stats and seeing the XP bar go up while the K/D ratio stays in the best possible spot it can be on while having delusions of anyone actually caring about their in-game stats.

casual is the way to go as it's always been. just something you can drop in and out of whenever you want and have fun with it. devs should ditch competitive altogether and take every single possible action to actively antagonize any retard who attempts to coerce them into adding more competitive focused content to their games. just tell them to fuck off and get a life.

There should be seperated and balanced independantly

For all its flaws and general rot and stink, COD actually does this well

>>714971715 (OP)
This depends
Is it an online PvP focused game, like ASSFAGGOTS? Yeah, that will ruin the game for 95% of the playerbase.
Is it a mostly PvE MMO, where competitiveness is made up by retards who want to play an hour per week and stay relevant?
Yeah, the devs should listen to people who are actually invested in their game and are playing it a lot.

>>714973685
>animegod graces us with his opinion
Anime posters are always correct

>>714973685
>anime pfp being correct
>in the year of our lord 2000+25
huh, i guess you do see shit like this everyday

>>714971715 (OP)
frieren is right

comp
/v/ has been taken over by casual shitters who only play gacha and AAA slop

>>714973879
>Awp vs TMP is an even fight
I didn't read your dumbass post because of this one neat trick that scientists HATE!
Hell yeah, dude. Grab that Negev and go ham. You're just as likely to win with that USP vs that Deagle.

>>714971715 (OP)
The game should be balanced around intermediate players.
Compfags can just ban XYZ like they were going to anyways, and they are a fringe minority.
Casuals are braindead and would be entertained by giggling keys.
The players who are in between who know the nuances of the game but don’t sweat or play in leagues are the types of people you should balance the game around.
Those people will care about balance the most since they don’t have the luxury of banning things and care about the game enough to play it for more than 1 week.

>>714975075
MP7/MP9 will mog an awper at mid range since you can run like a mong + jump shoot to your hearts content since the smgs are balanced for it.
You haven't played the game for years and is absolutely clueless. If you want to contest long range like d2 long vs an awper and cry like a bitch because it's unbalanced the one missing braincells is you.

>>714971806
>TicTacToe™ 1.1 Update
>Based on feedback from competitive players, the development team is proud to present a major overhaul to the game.
>NEW GRID
>The odd number of grids in the previous 3x3 configuration and the presence of a strategically-advantageous center square has been identified by many competitive players as giving an unfair advantage to the player who goes first. The 3x3 grid has been replaced with a new, circumscribed, irregular 2x4 grid.
>NEW GAMEPLAY
>The previous turn-based playstyle has been identified by many competitive players as impeding the flow of gameplay and unreasonably limiting the number of competitive matches that can be played in a session. The turn-based gameplay has been replaced with an exciting new real-time placement of X's and O's.
>NEW WIN CONDITION
>The previous win condition of three marks in a row has been identified by many competitive players as limiting player opportunities to employ novel strategies in the game. As of 1.4, the winner is now the player whose contiguous occupied grids have the area-to-arclength ratio closest to 1.
>NEW SKINS
>Fans of our customizable colors for marks and the extensive trading system will be pleased to hear that we have added over 16 MILLION new hues for X's and O's, obtainable via random loot crates or purchase through the store.
>CLASSIC MODE DLC
>We also recognize that many of our players prefer the outdated, unbalanced, and less dynamic gameplay of TicTacToe™ 1.0. Players wishing to retain access to the TicTacToe™ Classic Mode™ can acquire the new Classic Mode™ DLC from the store.

>>714973685
trvth nvke

balancing for comp trickles down
balancing for casual results in a broken game

>>714971715 (OP)
Invisible competitive MMR without any way to see your rank so players actually play for fun instead of grinding points trying to punch above their weight

>>714976810
the cnc3 campaign became completly unbalanced and broken because of comp balancing bullshit
there's a mission where you're told to go hogwild and spam your superheavy tanks to win. It worked fine in the original balance, but after comp bullshit your only option is cheese because the tanks got nerfed to shit, upgrades got more expensive, the tanks price increased and your income was halved

>>714971715 (OP)
Competitive and casuals cannot live together, you either make your game for casuals or competitive, but you cant eat both cakes, but corpos are greedy kikes so they will never learn

When did /v/ get so casual?

>>714971806
Overwatch did that and it ended up killing the game

The game should be balanced around not being overcentralizing around a specific mechanic unless it was the developer's intention.
Let players forge what is fun but take note of where things break down at differing skill levels (ie braindead easy tools that roll over casuals is a design problem not a balance problem, hyper specific setups that are meta defining will be abused at high levels of skill because it was a design blindspot, and so on) ideally everyone is able to play your game and have fun, but disproportionate payoff to skill ratios are worth considering adjusting to be less polarizing. The goal is still ultimately for everyone to have fun and not just 1 guy.