It's official. Vidya is NOT art. The god of video games has spoken.

Source: trust me

will /v/ ever understand that miyamoto became irrelevant after Mario 64?
im a storyfag and i still recognize Mario games as art.

>The god of video games
>some unnamed "Ex-Nintendo Dev"

>>714992402 (OP)
People don't actually like Miyamoto.

>>714992402 (OP)
Most paintings are comissioned pieces for royals and wealthy elites. The idea that artistic merit can only exist in a vacuum of complete isolation from revenue/profit is insane.

>>714992402 (OP)
But apparently this is?

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sU8E1Sn6ai8

And is not art the product of an artist?

>"Miyamoto quote" as said by some anonymous ex-Nintendo dev

>>714992402 (OP)
Trvke

>>714992703
Agreed, a "work of art" can still be a product, the important thing is that the compromise with commercial viability doesn’t impose strict constraints on creativity, there must be the right balance

>>714992402 (OP)
'art 'uffers on suicide watch

>>714992402 (OP)
I don't care about what that chinaman thinks.

>>714992402 (OP)
i agree nintendo games are not art

>>714992831
honestly considering how Jap corporate culture is anonymously is the only way saying something like that is ever getting out
shittalk cam f;y qiote freely in the US of A but in Japan saying one of the company patriarchs is a cockmunching donglord is career suicide
doesn't make the quote true tho lol, I'd just understand if that's how it got out

>>714993171
Video games in general. Yes, he gets to speak for your platform and your favorite games.

so this is why we got safe mario slop for years

japs: say something abstruse in an obtuse way
westoids: twist it into a clickbait article that misconstrues the original point
sick of this gimmick

>>714992402 (OP)
>it's official: thing that was patently obvious since the 90's is confirmed by some dude

>>714992402 (OP)
Makes sense. He was hired at Nintendo back when it was primarily an analog toy company. He was hired to do art and illustrations and only ended up making Donkey Kong because no one else was free to work on another arcade game after Radarscope when Yamauchi had to bail out NoA. All their arcade games up to this point were either autistic shit like Computer Othello or Space Invaders ripoffs. He wasn't in it for the art, his boss told him to shit something out and he did so.

>>714992402 (OP)
Nintendo games are definitely more products than works of art

>>714992690
So this is where we say "Miyamoto was never good" now, eh?.

>>714993301
ever heard of Nobel disease?

>man from country where work culture is so cold, unfeeling and intense that its workers kill themselves by the truckloads every day and are taught to worship their bosses as overlords views his work as a corporate product first and foremost

I'm absolutely shocked, I tell you.

>>714992402 (OP)
Can products be art? I mean, Applefags pretend to be one of these.

>>714992402 (OP)
Whether this is a real quote or not, it doesn't matter,
Nintendo games have clearly been produts, not focused on the art,
it's very obvious from how cash-grabby and repetitive their releases are
>Pokemon, same shit as the previous title, 2 versions of the same game, 3rd later
>Mario, same shit as the previous title, maybe 1 new gimmick or alternating between sidescroller or 3d platformer
>Zelda, almost samey, but still one of their better games

>>714993873
shiggy got a golden ticket job, and he spent the majority as a celebrity and quasi-exec creative.
I doubt he views working at nintendo negatively.

>>714992402 (OP)
>Japan said so the west must bow down

>>714993873
Well...it's not THAT black and white. The cultural undertone of "never bring dishonor" is what provokes a lot of the bullshit that piles on top of it.

>>714993968
apple is most soulless anti-art company ever. nintendo being the apple of vidya says a lot.

>>714992735
...Uh, maybe we don't want vidya to be associated with "art" after all.

>>714994028
you could say that the first one was art, and the sequels just soulless clones.

>>714992735
LMAO

>>714993353
Seems like he ran it through google translate and is missing some context. Always be weary of translated japanese words in quotes.

>>714992402 (OP)
I define true art as an expression of the soul. A piece of art must inherently be defined by its creator. Art doesn't have to say anything, but by their nature it says something about it's creator. If it lacks this quality, it isn't art.
As an example, Disney Star wars isn't art, as much of the production is corpo made. But George Lucas Star wars is.
Individual aspects of Disney Star wars are true art, and individual aspects of George Lucas Star wars aren't true art, but that's different than as a whole.

AAA video games largely cannot be true art by this same measure. Creator led games like Death stranding is true art, and indies can be true art, but largely no video games are not true art.

True art doesn't mean good btw. It's just a quality something can have.

>>714994031
Yeah he did but that doesnt stop him from being exposed to/raised in japanese salaryman work culture. Im not saying he views his job negatively, just that he views it as a product as his work culture would have taught him to. The idea that games are heckin precious works of art and must all be preserved no matter what is very western. Japs dont give a fuck about preserving their old games, they view them simply as products, as nintendo have shown us time and time again.

>>714992402 (OP)
So that's why his games were so fun!

>>714994282
I can read it and thats a direct translation

>>714992735
Something being art doesn't mean its good, there is crappy art too anon.

>>714992402 (OP)
No wonder all his games are shit.

>>714992402 (OP)
that's very much true for nintendo products

>>714992402 (OP)
He only creates slop for toddlers, of course he sees them as only products.

>>714992402 (OP)
That explains a lot with Nintendo over the years.

>>714992402 (OP)
Isn't that completely obvious from looking at Nintendo games? They are toys to entertain and there is nothing wrong with that.

Movies and vidya were never art, they're products. Nobody fucking thinks fucking gta is art let's be real

>>714994402
The "1 & Done" mentality is certainly true, but he cared way too much about minutia in the subjective that had no bearing on number goes up or down, which means he cares about the product in an artistic way.

>>714992703
It becomes a lot more interesting once its removed from its original commercial context.
Postwar music used to be centered around the idea of going from bar to bar to do live performance, meaning its art outside of that. Similarly paintings only existed as in house show pieces inside of a clan, meaning there is a value to them outside of the context.

This means Video Games has no value inside the context of being current competing products, but instead gain value outside of that time frame.
If the current world order fades, MGS 2 and MGS3 is going to be very artistic.

>>714992690
Snoys

>>714992549
I always thought the a games story was a bad basis for an argument over it being art. I would sooner argue that Roller Coaster Tycoon is art as an example rather than something like The Last of Us.

>>714994685
Pikmin was certainly meant to be more than a generic nintendo game. The ninty guy is probably referring to MIyamoto's later years though.

>>714992549
>im a storyfag
https://youtu.be/IRsPheErBj8?si=xGov8LXnQRJ96B1m

>>714994402
>Japs dont give a fuck about preserving their old games
They care as much as the west does. Preservation is done by hobbyists, collectors, and historians in either place. Any moderately commercially profitable studio at Microsoft, EA, or elsewhere doesn't give a fuck about "preserving" anything beyond maintaining their ability to reuse old assets, source code, and other intellectual property.

>>714992402 (OP)
No shit. Have you seen the slop this man has produced since the 2000s? Him and the rest of the soulless fucks at nintendo live to squander any possible art that may come their way

>>714992402 (OP)
>says ex-nintendo dev

OP is a massive faggot and probably a games journalist. Which makes him double gay!

>>714994958
literally me

>>714992703
Yume Nikki is true art because it is free.

>>714995232
Pokemon Blue is true art because it is free on my computer.

>>714992654
I can't understand why people play shitty low tier mobile games when emulators are better than ever and phones are really strong performance wise.

/v/ fags
>Nintendo games are the highest example of art in video games, ethereal and immortal, the peak of the medium
Miyamoto
>They're disposable products for children, stop being stupid and grow up already

>>714995409
normalfags and kids don't know about their existence

>>714992402 (OP)
>artist/dev taking too long in vain and impossible pursuit of absolute perfection
>hey buddy lets go, game's gotta ship by Christmas, no one's gonna notice you missed a few lines of detail on that twig
>HOW DARE HE!!! I am an ARTIST and my creativity shant be stifled!
Shut up and make product you stupid peon. You can obsess over meaningless shit on your own time.

>>714992402 (OP)
he stopped being a creative director a long time ago and is mostly a producer with the goal of making profitable products so of course he views them that way. the last thing he lead creatively was what, the first Pikmin game?

>"hehe of course NINTENDO games aren't art hehehe!"
Alright faggots what are some examples of games that are real art then? You won't post them

>>714995431
>/v/ fags
tendies*

>nintendo is a soulless dumpster fire that spews garbage in all directions
Surprising absolutely nobody.
Jap-man just stating what we all already knew.

>>714995528
Half Life

>>714995301
All games are art because you can pirate them /thread

>>714995528
Machinarium

>>714995607
Be serious anon

>>714995679
>All games are art because you can pirate them
All except Switch 2.

>>714993873
America has higher suicide rates than Japan

>>714992402 (OP)
Video games are not art, they are products, this is something inarguable and is continually proven by the people surrounding them.
Things become art when artistic merit is ascribed to them, and they are then examined critically, whether it be good or bad. That is why, for example, you can call a urinal in an art museum "art", because it is directly calling attention to itself as something to be examined within the realm of art.

Video games are not part of that though. Video games are innately disposable things like fast food or a doll, something you can easily throw out or update with little care whatsoever. It makes perfect sense for Miyamoto to say that, since he understands that idea perfectly. Some of the earliest Mario titles were just remakes- like Super Mario Bros. All Stars. A remake in the fashion of that is the ultimate sign of 'product' moreso than 'art' simply because that implies several factors about the preceding work- that you were not meant to take it in as it was. That it was, itself, something to be disposed of when the new thing came to replace it. Even the main titles are viewed under this lens, with Mario 2 being a rebranded game simply because that would please the American market more than the actual Mario 2 they developed.

Outside of NIntendo, this mindset also flourishes. Just look at the remakes of Resident Evil and Silent Hill, all showing that yes, these prior games were mistakes that should be replaced, because they are not 'art'. They are 'product'.
This whole outcry for games being art is an innately childish attempt to give off the illusion of the consumers having a greater degree of intellectual maturity in the wake of Roger Ebert, when really you shouldn't give a shit. Most people consuming films and books don't go "Ah yes, I'm consuming ART", they think of them as products too. Games are just more open about the whole affair.

Nintendo has never believed games are art, they obviously view them as toys.

>>714995782
Switch 2 has no games.

>>714996049
Be quiet, adversary.

>>714996101
else what you will sue me?

Miyamoto aside. Whoever thinks games should be arts are just degenerates

>>714995782
>pirating switch 2 games
You can't pirate what doesn't exist.

>>714992402 (OP)
Like I'm going to take that old fart's word on anything. Cram Bowser Jr up your ass.

>>714996175
The Nintendo Switch 2 has games.

Once a-fucking-gain, /v/ believes clickbait headlines despite knowing vidya journalism is not to be trusted and spins shit out of context.
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2025/07/miyamoto-views-games-as-products-not-works-of-art-says-ex-nintendo-dev
Miyamoto did not say that he views games as products. What he actually said at a shareholders meeting was encouraging developers to "work for the consumer, not your boss", a.k.a. make games that the player will enjoy without worrying too much about the bottom line. The bit about Miyamoto seeing games as products comes from another dude, an ex-Nintendo developer named Takaya Imamura (the guy who designed Captain Falcon and Tingle), who says,
>“Mr. Miyamoto studied industrial design at an art university, and he views games as ‘products,’ not ‘works of art.’ I think this perspective is what leads to game development that’s more aligned with the user.”
It's a fucking opinion of a dude who doesn't even work for Nintendo anymore. Not the brazen capitalist sneering of an out-of-touch dev who thinks you're only value is your wallet. Fucks sake, /v/.

>>714996380
Name 50 switch 2 exclusives

>>714993353
>The man who said this was Takaya Imamura
>On Twitter of all places
That's the last guy I thought would say that, given how long he's worked with Miyamoto.

it's better not to be art because artists are pretentious fags

>>714996557
Don't do that.
There will be 50 Switch 2 exclusives soon.

>>714992402 (OP)
>is x le art? *shits himself*
I think trannies like op need to learn what "art" even means. Pro tip: it's not just paintings and homoerotic statues made for fart huffing, pretentious rich faggots

Miyamoto before:
>I want to make games where people get to experience being a child again, like rescuing a princess, or playing in the forest.
Miyamoto now:
>Um...We need to market this game so put more Toads, people recognize Toad and we can market it.

>>714996392
Sorry, Miyamoto bad. /v/ said so

>>714992402 (OP)
Artfags are obnoxious cunts so this is a good thing.

>>714996392
Thank you for the summary based anon.
Now we will continue the discussion without this fact

>>714996703
>2 more weeks!
lol, lmao, switch 2 has no games.

Where's the lie?

>>714996878
Get ready for Mini-Pauline.

I think people miss the point.

Are games as art in the same sense that novels, paintings, movies are about exploring the human condition and do philosophy?

No.

Are games are in the same sense chess, go, shogi, soccer, poker, tarot, are cultural products with historical and cultural meaning?

Yes.

>>714996732
What is art, anon?

>>714996392
lmao keep seething tendie, Miyamoto doesnt care about you

>>714995952
absolutely retarded take. did you know art museums exhibit oftentimes design pieces? aka, literal products for daily use. furniture, tools, jewelry, anything you can think of
do you also think movies are products? all those boring nouvelle vague movies must be there for a practial purpose, right?
actually, even art pieces in the traditional sense are products too. the fucking sistine chapel was a commission, a product requested by the church to show their economical ant religious power
it's how said products are considered after, both outside and inside their related context, that makes art, as >>714994845 said
so, taking your example, og resident evil and silent hill have value in that they are an attempt (by japanese, game-developing people) to adapt the styles of certain directors (lynch, romero, kubrick) in a videogame format, which then built off their very own style regarding their platform (video games) and their own vision and plot narrative-wise. this could pretty easily be defined as art regardless of their value detached from that
remakes, thought? they definitely suit being a product. there is nothing behind their development beyond the developers remaking them, very lazily at that. just a cash grab.
if you'd keep consuming that kind of shit, no wonder you view videogames as mere functional products

>>714992402 (OP)
Who the fuck cares if this is considered "true" art, artkeks don't need to reply

Today is first day I don't watch bad site and M... Buy nintendo game as reward.

to be fair even Miyamoto never said the thing in OP, he would never say games are supposed to be arts. His game designs always theme around making player happy

>>714997108
He does care about us.

>>714997001
That's 1 game you only need 49 more.

>>714997185
the fact that banana remained impressed in the public consciousness as the definitive anti-art piece ironically does in fact give it artistic value

>>714992402 (OP)
That's not really up to them to decide. It's like dismissing the Mona Lisa because Leonardo da Vinci just wanted a nobleman's paycheck to paint his niece or wife or both.

>>714992402 (OP)
miyamoto also believes that only games that sell 30 million units are successful
>>714992703
same for hollywood movies in the hundreds of millions of dollars. specially if you adjust to inflation old works
there is no such a thing as high art without rich money wasting money

>>714997184
>did you know art museums exhibit oftentimes design pieces? aka, literal products for daily use. furniture, tools, jewelry, anything you can think of
Addressed in my post.
>do you also think movies are products? all those boring nouvelle vague movies must be there for a practial purpose, right?
Literally also addressed in my post.
>so, taking your example, og resident evil and silent hill have value in that they are an attempt (by japanese, game-developing people) to adapt the styles of certain directors (lynch, romero, kubrick) in a videogame format, which then built off their very own style regarding their platform (video games) and their own vision and plot narrative-wise. this could pretty easily be defined as art regardless of their value detached from that
And video games, as a medium, have declared them to not be art. That they were flawed products which can be made again and improved so as to discard the original product entirely. That is what I mean.
Video games, are thus, a medium completely antithetical to art from a very early point in time. Nothing wrong with that, being "art" is overrated, all it really means is that they aren't worthy of critical examination beyond how they function as a product, and that is true of pretty much every video game to ever release.

>>714997265
Wow

>>714997092
retarded take.
If a painting is art, then why isn't a texture? Cause it's wrapped to a 3d model, that also took artistic skill to make?

>>714992402 (OP)
Well, I guess we all know why he is not with Nintendo anymore...

>>714997092
>Are games as art in the same sense that novels, paintings, movies are about exploring the human condition and do philosophy?
>No.
Never played a game with an actual story and it shows
>Are games are in the same sense chess, go, shogi, soccer, poker, tarot, are cultural products with historical and cultural meaning?
>Yes.
This is cope to justify nintendo mediocrity

>>714997092
>movies
Movies are a combination of multiple artforms, just like video games are.

>>714997440
>they aren't worthy of critical examination beyond how they function as a product

wrong
if a car or a gun can be art a video game can be art
its function defines its form and when said form makes the observer feel something is that not art? is a sculpture not art because it must ultimately limit itself to the hard physics of the medium of which it is made?

You don't see old films having cleavage covered up and the script changed for "modern audiences" when rereleased. Games will never be art.

>>714997953
You do, actually. You're just an idiot who only plays video games.

>>714997953
>t. zoomer

>>714997440
There are already people who critically examine vidya
https://ro.ecu.edu.au/theses/619/

>>714992402 (OP)
This is old news. Shiggy has said this many times. It makes sense when you consider how simplistic the games shiggy pioneered were. The current devs that make art like BotW/TotK clearly don't aagree with shiggy based on their work

>>714998038
You're delusional. Show me a film rerelease that digitally covers cleavage or alters the script.

No game is art. Game is game.

>>714998256
>Yippee Ki Yay Mr Falcon

>>714998256
French Connection had the racism removed from it a couple years back.

>>714998256

>>714995409
because everyone has a phone and spend most of their time in a phone thanks to its portability, while consoles and PC are not portable.

but why art good products bad?
why should i give more importance to art? who gives a shit?

Making video game is a CRAFT not ART unless you're using the "everything is art" argument. This discourse has already been solved years ago and yet /v/ is always bringing it up like it's a mystery.

>>714994854
Death Stranding is a better example of games as art

>>714998527
There is a social benefit in humanity in proscribing objects as works of art.

>>714992402 (OP)
really? from the guy who's been beating a dead horse for 40 years? who would a thought that.

>>714994854
My biggest counterargument for Last of Us being art, or just good storytelling in gaming, is due to the fact that the story runs opposite to the gameplay. It'd be like calling a movie art for just scrolling text on screen, it's not taking advantage of the medium. RE4 actually pulls it off even with the campier story.

What is it about a video game that makes it specifically art? Is it the story? I can't help but notice everytime someone crows about 'video games are art' they list something like Silent Hill 2 as the peak, when it's just a derivative and padded Lost Highway. I'd like to see some examples of artistic video games.

Isn’t it funny how fervently tendies defend Nintendo while Nintendo actively states how much they hate them?

>>714998512
he meant emulators for mobile phones

>>714992402 (OP)
A ruleset of a game can be used to represent things in the world in an abstract way. Art is about representing things in the world through a medium. Games can be art.
Video games are games and games can be art so video games can be art. I don't think all games are art because sometimes the only goal they have is to entertain: they're not trying to represent anything but instead only trying to satisfy a need to be entertained. Mind you, art can be entertaining as well.

Video games can be art but not all are.

>>714994854
Refer to >>714998543
It's a craft like woodworking or baking or architecture, where its function is paramount to anything it provides.. Some pieces of art incorporate many crafts, into it but it is not actually required to be considered one.

I don't care what anyone thinks about video games except me.

>>714992690
I like him and i side with him, videogames arent art

>>714998584
and that explains why ds2 slops so hard kek

>>714998983
All video games are pieces of craft rather than art.

>>714998983
>epresent things in the world in an abstract way
programming is not art

>>714997440
>And video games, as a medium, have declared them to not be art. That they were flawed products which can be made again and improved so as to discard the original product entirely. That is what I mean
that is more of an issue both with advancing technology and lower availability of the necessary hardware, alongside the usual kikery built around advertising these remakes. even if some people might say "it's clunky", or "it aged badly", they're still fully functional gameplay-wise, and with some getting used to it many people still end up enjoying them nowadays. now, the remakes are popular and played by more players, but which of the two would better stand the test of time?
also, it's a concept not dissimiliar from movies, as those also tend to get remakes/reboots for "modern audiences" and have plain old movies which aren't palatable enough for said audiences. doesn't take away from their artistic value, if they have/had one.
>Most people consuming films and books don't go "Ah yes, I'm consuming ART", they think of them as products too. Games are just more open about the whole affair.
most people do say that, thought? at least, when it's clear their intention is to find out said art and manage to do so.
it is true that all of these things are products to begin with, but as art ascribes specifically to an aestethic/philosophical necessity of discovery and insight over other worldviews and mentalities, correlated again with how much value it gains outside of it's own original context, they fulfill that necessity of human sentiment and insight that nothing else could

>>714998875
More in the fact that it's a creative endeavor in all its parts (visual, sound, story gameplay). Focusing on story as the single element that makes it art would be like calling a movie art just for the screenplay.

>>714992402 (OP)
>games are not art
Not his games, that's for sure

it’s simple. If games are arts,
then /v/ is an artist board

having played some of his games they sure feel like soulless products

>>714995409
indians and chinese (most of the mobile game market) people that spend a third of they day commuting dont care about that shit. they just wanna play some retarded shit to numb the pain of existence

>>714999152
If you're the one to respond to me, I'd rather you find a fault in my reasoning over just stating your own assertion.
>>714999173
That's like saying the act of writing is not art, which is true, but not really addressing my point.

>>714995409
Because those retards hate actual games and just want to see number go up and gamble all day

>>714992402 (OP)
Would the art tag change things from a conversation/preservation/IP law point of view?

>>714994282
the amount of damage controls weebs make for anything japanese is crazy. if this was the tweet of some non-english speaking western dev you would all flock and call them a fat ugly woke jewish nigger instantly

Video games are games and games can be art so video games can be art but not all are art only some can be art some games are art and video games are games so art can be games and games can be art and art can be video games like games are art but not all games are art so not all video games are art but some can be art like how some games are art.

The only reason I don't think games are art is because I hate art faggots.

>>714992402 (OP)
Products are meant to satisfy a consumer need (in this case, entertainment or gambling addiction)
GOOD vidya are products.

>>714996635
bug people like the japanese dont really see it as offensive, i suppose. japs readily accept that their lives just revolves around consuming products

>>714992402 (OP)
Being a product does not exclude something from being art. A product is when a good is sold by one person to another. It can be anything. Even human beings are considered products in some parts of the world to this day.
Video games are not “art” in the mundane sense that people give to the word, which is more associated with fine arts. But if you consider art to be anything that has been produced by human hands and whose function is to feed the spirit rather than physiological needs, then you can consider it art. It all depends on the definition you give to the word.

>>714999595
same. too many internet faggots call themselves artists by doing low effort doodling or even nothing

>>714992402 (OP)
What would Yamauchi say?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FDzLCVN6uw

>>714999223
>also, it's a concept not dissimiliar from movies, as those also tend to get remakes/reboots for "modern audiences" and have plain old movies which aren't palatable enough for said audiences. doesn't take away from their artistic value, if they have/had one.
They're deprived of artistic value in films as well, but the difference is in films, remakes aren't erasing anything. With games, they quite literally are.
I mentioned Resident Evil and Silent Hill for good reason, as you literally can no longer play those games without jumping through serious hoops. They have, in effect, been replaced, the same way one would replace a dishwasher or a washing machine. That is what games *are*.

>>714999352
an artist is someone who makes the game, not who plays it.

>>714995852
it doesnt

>>714992402 (OP)
Makes sense... isn't he behind the New Super series? They're as generic as they come. Dollar store impersonations of their own fucking games from the past.

>>714995409
Because it's a totally different type of entertainment. People just call them “games” out of laziness. Mobile games are part of a different industry, the producers are different, the products are different, the monetization is different, the core of how entertainment is offered is different.
Lumping mobile games together with the more traditional games you normally see on consoles and PCs is almost as dumb as putting board games together with video games and saying they're all the same thing.

>>714998875
the gameplay enhances the story in sh2. the entire game you are attacking monsters with feminine and sexual attributes. the active participation in games allows the player to immerse themselves in the world and themes. resident evil, which is way more focused on the gameplay itself, creates a tension with the environment that becomes its own story. gameplay can alter/create the experience and allow a deeper level of exploration of the themes than the story/cutscenes alone would achieve.

>>714999490
My refutation is that a game fails the criterion of art (we're technically discussing fine arts) of being intrinsic. A video game is not a video game until a certain amount of skill is put into it like how a glassmaker or a jeweler plies their craft. It'd just be goop. Art does not require you to be skilled at something to be considered as such. Pieces of art do contain elements of crafts behind it but it was never required intrinsically. A Bernini is much of a piece of fine art as Salvatore Garau's invisible sculpture. Whereas a video game is not really a video game when you can't even play it.

>>714992402 (OP)
The only Jap that think videogamses are art is Kojima and you know that guy isn't ok in his head.

People get too hung up on this idea of "art". For one thing this conversation always ends in semantics. Is art a label we give to the best of the best or are all creative works art by nature and we should instead talk about whether something is high art? Does getting paid for your effort nullify artistic merit? Does a bathroom graffiti have more validity than the Last Supper because it was made purely as someone's expression?
I say fuck that noise. Mario is never going to be in the Louvre, not because it lacks the same artistic merit but because the art industry is one big circlejerk to increase value on the "right" art pieces. It's like the stock market with less oversight.

>>714992402 (OP)
>Miyamoto in 2025
Moviebob is that you?

>>714995528
pathologic

>>714995409
You need a brain to know about it (disqualifies the normalfags) and you need to buy a controller if you want the controls to not suck dick (disqualifies the autisimos because they're all neet and have no money). So who's left.

>>714999801
wrong. i play mario paint.

>>714992402 (OP)
He never said that

>it's another "/v/ is illiterate" thread
It's funny tho ngl tbdesu

>>714993171
trvke

As long as something is viewed as art, it is art

>>714992654

>>714992549
he was also in charge of OOT

Nintendo makes toys

>>714992402 (OP)
>Faggot who’s career was nothing but shitting out mass appeal tendie garbage thinks games are just products
makes sense

>>714992402 (OP)
>disgruntled, low level ex-employee shittalks superiors who fired him

>>715000037
>Illiterate
ikr totally >>715000069

>>714999952
For the sake of clarity for the thread, art here means fine art. Art in of itself has no pragmatic definition that can distinguish itself from everything a human does. Some people want to tread video games on the same caliber of fine arts

>>715000082
??? Brown hands edited this image. Consoles are known as the sports slop machines. PC indies is where innovation thrives.

>>714992402 (OP)
>products
so Nintendo confirms I'm buying the product of a game and not the service of a license?

Video games are games first and foremost, fundamentally closer to a board game than a painting or poem. Why should you care about it being classified as art anyway? Just to feel better about having games as a hobby, like it's more sophisticated and respectable if people in academia decide it's art?

>>714999952
The discussion always ends up being about semantics because every time people discuss this topic, they deliberately hide the definition of art they are using, because if they define it in the first place, the discussion ends before it begins, since all you have to do is see if video games fit the guy's definition and that's it.

>>715000069
How about i don't see anything as art? Thats valid too

>>714992629
It triggered me deeply to see Miyamoto labelled as a random "ex-Nintendo dev". Do zoomers don't know him?

>>714995952
you are an absolute fucking retard and should kys NOW

>>714992402 (OP)
Honestly hilarious considering he only got in at Nintendo because he was an artsy kid whose dad had connections.

Video games could be art but they're not
Miyamoto is 100% right about them being a product first and foremost even if that upsets the redditors who desperately want their hobby to be more than it is

It started in the Renaissance when Europeans were obsessed in calling everything art. The Art of War, Martial Arts, the Art of the Trade, the Art of Speech etc.

>>714999790
yamauchi was a total square businessman, first and foremost. classic post-WW2 japanese businessman that only cares about profit margins and quarterly earnings. mind you, i dont think thats necessarely bad, as i think he made smart decisions that lead to a bunch of good games, but to pretend like he was some kind of angel that le cared deeply about games is a shortsighted romantic western orientalist view of japanese business culture. japanese business culture is similar to american business culture in its cold, unfeeling calculatedness, but coupled with retarded japanese hierarchical practice and pointless tradition that wastes time and money.

>>715000232
I've had this conversation my entire life, I think most people just assume everyone else has the same definition for art since it's never been something set in stone. Some say "this is art" to describe something that really moves them, other say "this is art" as a more clinical definition with high art being the actual praise.

>>714997092
>le human condition tranny.
If you niggas actually touched grass and got laid once in a while you'll realize how fucking gay you sound.

>>715000240
nta, but yeah of course it is. why would we disagree with you?

>>715000495
reminder that he hated pokemon and it's his fault Square broke the partnership with Nintendo

>>714992402 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5zMwOuhyHc

This Miyamoto VS Miyazaki article says otherwise.

>>715000581
>im a nihilist faggot that doesnt care about anything
ok just kill yourself then?

>>715000269
The unnamed dev is the one saying Miyamoto doesnt see games as art not Miyamoto himself

>>715000156
He's right

>>715000495
>american business culture in its cold, unfeeling calculatedness
It's more about how businessmen in the US back then didn't know jack shit about what they're actually shitting out and would just greenlight anything even though it's weird and experimental. Constrast that to the guy who prides himself as an aficionado on the subject that became a businessman who would be more picky based on what his tastes are on what the thing ought to be.

>>714994349
true actually
the only thing I'd add is that even corpo games can have some artistic elements in them, like soundtracks for example

>>715000621
Didn't know those two had ever talked, should be interesting.

Klonoa is Art

>>715000614
>hated Pokemon
Why would you like about this
>As the finished Red and Blue versions were being prepared for release, Nintendo allegedly spent over 50 million dollars on promotion, fearing the series would not be appealing to American children.[57] The western localization team warned that the "cute monsters" may not be accepted by American audiences, and instead recommended they be redesigned and "beefed-up". Then-president of Nintendo Hiroshi Yamauchi refused and instead viewed the games' possible reception in America as a challenge to face.[58]
He's the reason they didn't fuck with Pokemon in Western releases and made Pokemania possible.

>>714999903
I fail to come up with anything created that doesn't require a "craft". Even an invisible painting requires knowledge of what art can be and the capability to argue it is art, which is somethhing I could say fits a definition of craft.

Pokemon fuckers are art fuckers now

>>715000495
>but to pretend like he was some kind of angel that le cared deeply about games is a shortsighted romantic western orientalist view of japanese business culture
He pushed for certain game genres to be made and rescued HAL Labs from bankruptcy. It's no coincidence that the quality of Nintendo games took a nosedive in quality when he left for good in 2005.

>>714994849
Miyamoto IS a snoy.

>>714999793
ah, a fellow corporate bootlicker
ow i get why are you so disillusioned, you feel for their tricks and think ps1 games aren't available anymore!
how's the weather in the USA, anyways?

>>715000736
do you nott think yamauchi made decisions made on council of market analysis? its not that different from american business practice, just that you are a lot less free in japan. like, literally less free to move and make decisions independently compared to the US where you can say fuck you to your boss, quit, and go work for another company that values your skills more. i would also disagree with your notion that americans dont know jack shit about what they're shitting out. i guess im wondering in regards to what? video games?

>>715000581
Being an aggressive contrarian is not a substitute for having a personality.
Stop it or you'll suddenly find yourself deep in middle-age realizing that while you spent time being angry, you managed to go half your life doing neither what you ought to, nor what you wanted and now you have only lonely and bitter decrepitude to look forward to.

>>715000843
To make it even more distinctive: A skilled trade is a craft. Art is not more about its mechanical know-how than the wilfull notion for it.

>>714992402 (OP)
What kind of validation does it give you even if video games were considered art? I suppose the implication is that you have some shame in that you're playing a toy and if someone says it's art then you will feel vindicated?

>>714992402 (OP)
Gameplay itself can be art.

Is there an actual difference in meaning between 'A work of art' and 'Art'?
Videogames, like any other creative endeavor, are inherently art. You can argue it's shit, but it is art nonetheless.
Yes, even the Eh Reh song is art.

>>714992402 (OP)
Tendies unironically worship this soulless hack

>>715000837
>Early that year, Tajiri pitched the idea to Ape (Creatures, Inc.) and Nintendo, with a contract to finish it in October; however, it was rejected, and issues trademarking the name led Tajiri to change it, first shortening it to CapuMon, then changing it to Pocket Monsters.

>>714999595
only good post itt

>>715001045
Words from Frank Zappa himself on the music industry back before it got filled with hippies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZazEM8cgt0

>>715001205
>I need to legitimize my opinions by quoting a has-been boomer who wouldn't stand a chance doing today what he became famous for.

>>714999442
>indians and chinese (most of the mobile game market)
https://gamedevreports.substack.com/p/sensor-tower-southeast-asia-mobile

>>715000837
I don't think enough people realize how close Pokemon came to failing. Does anyone think the series would be as strong as it is if they changed the designs to this?

>>715001387
We're talking about US businessmen BACK THEN, reread the reply chain.

>>714999882
Are you saying that the story is what defines a video game as art, then, and the gameplay is in service to delivering that story? It sounds like gameplay is optional and may perhaps create more pitfalls than making a movie or a book, especially if the end goal is immersion. I'm not trying to be combative. I personally see video games as theme park rides than artistic works, and it's not often that theme park rides as works of art. They're regarded as experiences, even if they have stories to them.

>>715001416
I like how this angular geometry for drawing characters in boxes is not considered a Western thing anymore ever since Japan adopted it as well.

>>715001087
But could you give me an example of created art that does not require the artist to be arbitrarily skilled in some craft?

I'd go so far as to claim there is a sort of meta "making a thing art"-craft used by artists and observers but I'm not yet sure how to word my idea exactly

>>715001042
>you feel for their tricks and think ps1 games aren't available anymore!
Hey retard, the point is that for normal people those remakes become the ONLY version. If someone wants to talk about "Resident Evil 2", they are not thinking about the 1998 video game, they are thinking about the 2019 video game, simply because they have zero means or incentive to access said 1998 video game.
Same with Silent Hill.

>>715000837
They kinda faced the same problem in gen 3 again to be fair, japanese kids noticed how Gen 2 had a bunch of baby pokemon and "less cool" designs in general, and Gen 3 was made as a response to that, they made a bunch of cute/lame prototype Pokemon that all got scrapped (you still can see the old dex in the teraleak), meanwhile they asked a bunch of non-japanese artists to make monster concepts, which were pretty intense/edgy in some cases but got more pokemonfied by the GF staff.

>>715001416
SOUL!

>>714998875
Depends on what you see as Art. If you think art means the snobby painting in a museum stuff, then yeah videogames are not art.
But I don't think that way, I think any creative endeavor is art regardless of quality. All videogames are art, making videogames is an artform. Just like writing, painting, playing music etc

>>715001449
>he gets upset
I bet you have at least three types of fedoras on a shelf somewhere.

>>715001205
this. hippies ruined the world

>>714999808
>Country not in pic related
>It's number 5
D:

>>715001205
oh yeah this is certainly true, if this is what you're referring to. but this was no different in the creative/humanities sector of japanese industries. the music industry in japan was also simply defined as "x american music but 4-8 years late" where they would simply observe american trends, re-tool it slightly to fit with japanese culture and structure (e.g. the design of japanese cars were lifted from american car designs, but made 'chibi' so they could fit into japanese infrastructure). always found it nausiating how people on youtube would get some japanese city pop and they would genuinely believe that this was some japanese innovation, when its stylistic origins would lie in the motown industry of the 60s and 70s, heavily influenced by american RnB and funk at the time. most city pop was even recorded with american session musicians playing rather than japanese. idk going on kind of a tangent, but my point is that the japanese was just a ruthless in their calculated chasing of western trends and jerry rigging them for japanese audiences

>>715001810
To be fair, everything past Gen 1 was made with the anime in mind which is why the series became more babyfied.

>>715001927
>U r gay
Hehehehe

>>715001205
>frank "I don't use drugs" zappa
Did anyone believe him? I mean have you heard his songs?

>>715001659
If we're going into meta-defintions then this argument is gonna go on circles since I'm clearly the only one working with distinctions to properly define the two pragmatically. What you're describing is the thought into making it, which is true, that's all that is require of what something becomes fine art. It doesn't need the artisanal technical rules to bring it to form. The process is completely arbitrary to the person.

>>715002065
That's another topic entirely, for the most part earlier forms are more cartoony now while later forms can either be cartoony too or have more realistic proportions.

>>715001416
HOLY SHIT

>>715001416
Nobody would bat an eye nowadays if that was drawn by a mangaka rather than an American artist.

>>714992545
Oh believe me, I trust those greedy chinks.

>>715002097
I think a way to describe my thought is that everyone either making a thing or experiencing a thing is employing a craft of "is this art" and it is a craft as it can be used to create art out of a material, concrete or more conceptual. It can be trained by studying how to convey things in an abstract way and studying things deemed art.
Nothing is art for a person with no skill in the craft and everything can be art for one skilled enough.

>>714998875
SH2 tells its own story and provides a unique experience that you simply won't get if you watch the movies or read the books it was inspired by including Lost Highway. Everything is derivative of something in some way including some of Lynch's own works, what matters is crafting something that has enough of its own identity despite any obvious inspirations.

>>715002260
I admit I haven't really kept up with Pokemon but from what I saw a lot of the designs still have those softer lines compared to Gen 1 where a lot of the Pokemon had more "realistic" elements. Obviously not all of them in Gen 1 followed this so it was never a 100% accurate thing.

>>714992402 (OP)
aource: retard

>>715002814
Most people don't actually don't know what makes something Fine Art. Look at pic. The fact that is intricate and beautiful isn't the reason it's considered a fine art. It's what it meant to convey, which is beauty, every aesthetic detail put into it is because of the very honed craftsmanship of the painter rather than him being "good at art".

>>715003131
Oy vey.

>>715003314
Aesthetics don't make the fine art, it is only the mode in which is is communicated through.

>>714995409
Playing even the most basic SNES game on shitty emulated on-screen touch "controllers" is the most dogshit experience ever.

>>714992549
the notion that something as beautiful as mario 64's animations, physics and simple, intuitive controls that can stir something in any player aren't art is absurd

>>714992402 (OP)
I'm not a sheep so he can take his shit ass opinion and shove it

In the united states video game are recognized as art and protected under the 1st Amendment, thanks 2011 Obama!

This should be a good thing, because the government can't step in and just ban/censor them at will like they do in other countries.

>>715003754
That would be because it isn't. You're more valuing the technical craft behind it rather than it being artistic.

>>715003754
Agreed, a game can be art for different reasons

>>714992402 (OP)
I mean the last game he directed was super mario run, the light behind his eyes is pretty much dead.

>>715003857
The government does not need to censor things when companies just censor it themselves.

idk why anyone cares about this. miyamoto is not a philosopher of aesthetics. who cares what he thinks? who cares what a philosopher of aesthetics thinks? do you just submit to any "authority" on a subject as elusive as art? miyamoto has his opinion, i have my opinion and you have your opinion. so who cares?

>>714992402 (OP)
>products aren't art
I choose to believe something was lost in translation rather than he's a total retard.

>>715003876
he seems more like he is valuing the expression realized through the technical craft. anon deems the experience of the animations, physics and controls as artistic. how is he wrong in this assertion, exactly?

>>715003131
>Most people don't actually don't know what makes something Fine Art.
No one does, its purely defined by what those in the art industry choose. That's why the painting my mom bought for 2 dollars on the flea market isn't fine art even though it's beautifully done.

>>715003876
a well made marble statue takes massive technical skill, which you admire about the artist, but the piece itself is still art

>>714996557
Bitch there isn't even 5 PS5 exclusives!

>>715004079
He isn't really wrong, more like uncultured that he cannot separate the art from the craft.

>>714992402 (OP)
no shit.
This is the guy who not only despises story and lore in his creations, but used his influence to sway the company to avoid RPGs or "deep" endeavors.

He was and will always be a mobile developer on a console.

>>715001564
There are many different artistic elements in a game. I do agree with the theme park idea, but I could also see some games as a sculpture garden, maybe the garden wouldn't be much without the sculptures present, but it can form a more cohesive/unique experience than the sculptures on their own. I also tend to view art through the lens of the experience itself. Many novels require the reader to actively participate with the themes/concepts of the story through complicated storytelling structures. It can sort of become a form of gameplay/ problem solving. The structure of the work itself becomes part of the art. It's hard to compare video games to other forms of art since the participation is almost the entirety of it, but I do feel that they offer many ways to communicate ideas/experiences that are unique to the medium. This question kind of highlights how i feel about it: Is a dance art for the dancer?

>>715004152
You are then admiring the skill, not the conveyance of which where the art lies. You're admiring the architecture.

how is this still a thing you idiots argue about
literally who, and I mean literally WHO, the fuck cares
>video games are art
ok *plays video games*
>video games are not art
ok *plays video games*

WHAT DOES THIS STUPID FUCKING LABEL MATTER
HOW IS THIS THREAD STILL UP
WHAT ARE YOU FUCKING IDIOTS ARGUING ABOUT

>>715004182
And what is the difference?

>>714992402 (OP)
Art in games, not games in art. Art is not supposed to be fun but beautiful.

>>715004456
NTA but from what I'm seeing he is saying that games should be something the playerbase actually want instead of a game that is just a visual spectacle.
He's not entirely wrong, and a game can be both but doing both is actually tricky in this day and age where everyone's opinion flipflops at the drop of a pin.

Does Miyamoto even do anything anymore

>>715003131
I maybe should have specified that the "is this art"-craft is entirely a cognitive process of knowledge and senses and the end product is the label of art, which we attach to the thing we experience with our senses in some way. From my point of view, no thing is intrinsically art and it only becomes art, or in put another way, art is only produced by craft with the least amount of crafts required being the one I'm trying to outline.
You said
>Pieces of art do contain elements of crafts behind it but it was never required intrinsically.
but I claim all art does require this craft to become art, otherwise a painting is just a paints on a surface, music is sounds and a sculpture just a block of some substance.

We might be talking past each other.

>>715004427
>literally who, and I mean literally WHO, the fuck cares
me

>>715004456
You don't need to hone a technical skill to produce art, it's not a criterion for it. We've already evolved past that idea that aesthetics is the art itself in the 20th century, it's always just been noted as such because it makes the art "clearer" not more artistic. Aesthetics is the craft of which art is conveyed. Something that is unaesthetically pleasing can still convey art.

>>715004702
No you don't

>>715004854
ok you got me

>>715004685
Refer to >>715004717
If I am to be reductive, you don't actually need to know any technicals to be an artist (as in art as a culture). That used to be the case but the Fine Art world has already "debunked" that. It's why you can have Fine Art installations of seeing things fall down or even just your naked body standing in the corner of a museum floor.

>>715004427
Industry types care because they want their company to win.

I feel like part of this was omitted on purpose just to stir up shit about Nintendo.
Again.
For like the 8th time this week.
Actually check the articles before believing what you think it is, there's only 3 sources to this, one being the original tweet.
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2025/07/miyamoto-views-games-as-products-not-works-of-art-says-ex-nintendo-dev
https://gonintendo.com/contents/50570-former-nintendo-dev-says-miyamoto-s-view-of-games-as-products-and-not-works-of-art

>>715003947
government censorship is a different beast entirely, it can mean anything from serious jail time, to fines, to your work being removed from anywhere it could be sold and government censorship can completely remove context whenever they want, they can see something strictly for mature audiences and say "it's corrupting children" arbitrarily.

>>715005308
And I'm saying that anti-censorship types have no recourse in companies or people that just self-censor themselves. Case in point, the Nazi swastika.

>>714999882
>>715001564
The thing with Sh2 is that the way you play the game influences the ending you can get in a way that is unlike most other games including its own sequel and predecessor. For example in Sh1 and Sh3 you have to do specific tasks like saving or killing someone, killing a specific amount of enemies, taking a specific amount of daamge, what option you pick in a dialogue tree or just taking an item and using it in specific spots. In a game like GTA V you just have to say yes to a specific mission when prompted and none of the choices you've made like helping random strangers on the streets or accepting Dr. Friedlander's advice in the therapy sessions have any influence on what ending you can get it only influences your psych evaluation which is just some text on a piece of paper after the credits have rolled. Completely pointless from a gameplay perspective.

But in Sh2 the ending you can get is influenced by seemingly insignificant things you wouldn't think twice about in any normal playthrough such as checking the item description of an object in your inventory, finding and reading a specific note or piece of text in specific places at specific points in the story, listening to an entire piece of dialogue between characters instead of skipping it, even stuff like going the wrong way, spending too much time with, interacting with or bumping into your escort too many times has an influence. Taking care of or NOT taking care of your health at all times and how much damage your escort takes can also influence what ending you can get. The gameplay in Sh2 services the narrative in pretty much every way including the controls and combat which is not everyone's cup of tea but it fully utilizes the medium it's in to tell its story in a way few other games do.

>>715005070
I think we're getting closer to discussing the same thing. My idea of the craft of "is this art" is the cognitive process leading to you being able to label things art.
The evolution of this craft is the reason for why you can see things falling down as art in addition to still seeing pieces of literature as art. It's a new technique for painting, so to speak.

>>715004567
Vidya is beatiful

>>715005627
I've already told you that you're using the thought process as the "craft", hence you are conflating both the art and the craft inseparable, of which I am denying. The craft is the applicable technique of skill. In other words, it's something you can hone like being a better draftsman but being more technically skilled is not where the artistry lies. It just makes it "clearer for the masses" if I am to be as disparaging as possible.

Ergo, video games are more works of craft than they are art. It's also why they can be mass produced to such a scale as a commercially viable product like all crafts are. End of subject; subject ends here.

>>714992545
Source: common sense

>>715005308
The government SHOULD censor video games. If its a protected art than there would be no penalty for kids stealing parents credit cards to buy fortnite loot boxes. Next on Trumps agenda, ban anyone under 18 from playing online games MAGA

A game NEEDS to sell because its a product

>>715006534
Do you consider movies to be art?

>>715007094
You could just ban predatory microtranscations.

>>715005968
I'm sorry if I am being thick in the skull but that is what I unfortunately am.
I see the cognitive process I've described as a craft because I believe it can be trained and the people taking new approaches in their works is a result of training and then applying the craft. Studying, experimenting, practicing and finally producing a chain of thought that leads to a thing being labeled art. I find it necessary for all art because no painting is art if there are no humans and random blotches of paint or picture-like works alike become art only when interpreted.

I simply do not know how to better word it. I will think on your posts and how they relate to my views in addition to how to better express what I think.

>>714992402 (OP)
Commercial art is still art. Fuck Miyamoto

>>714993171
Tendies never debunked this post

>>714992402 (OP)
reminder that Shiggy invented movie games

>>714992402 (OP)
Well obviously
>All those times he jumped in to ruin a project because he thought his changes would sell better

>>715007173
It isn't about what it is, it's more about what it is more so. I consider film to have more artistic merit than video games, yes, by virtue of a less "cluttered" artistic conveyance.

How can there be bad video games if video games are mostly artistic endeavours? Ponder that.

>>714992402 (OP)
He's semi correct

Videogames are a work of art and products. Same as commercial movies. What a fruitless discussion.

>>714992402 (OP)
as expected from toy company CEO

>>715004312
>>715003876
wrong because there are creative and artistic decisions on all those technical choices. most games are technically functional. you are an ideas guy who never made anything tangible with artistic merit. probably left wing too since they are obsessed with plot.

>>715009112
I take that as a yes and you know that movies are mass produced products too so this is a poor form of reasoning claiming that video games can't be art because they're made to make money first and foremost. So tracing that line of thought, if video games can't be art then neither can movies, books or music.

>>714992402 (OP)
That's exactly why Ninty can send you DMCA's for uploading the ingame soundtrack but not gameplay vids and why they tried to make creating LetsPlays illegal in Japan.

>>714992402 (OP)
Well of course he would say that, Nintendo has gone down the drainer and is 100% profit driven, no room for artistic expression (through gameplay). Somewhere after the 7th gen video games turned into pure products devoid of any artistic value. The fact that remake culture is so prevalent shows that video games are no better than a vacuum cleaner when it comes to artistic value, new model comes out and makes the old shitty clunky janky model obsolete.

I hate it because in the 90s and early 2000s there was genuine passion, you could legitimately make the argument that DMC3 or RE4 were a piece of art all of this is now gone, enjoy your shitty remakes, enjoy your products with the mandatory update every couple of years. You asked for it. You deserve it.

>>715009358
>most games are technically functional
Art itself does not require it to be functional. Making video games require you to fundamentally be a programmer first ergo, is programming Fine Art? If it is, video games is intrinsically art then, but it clearly isn't. Like I've already said as an example, draftmanship is not art. It's is what it is used to convey art. The conveyence is where the art is.

>>715009618
I'm not saying video can't be art, I'm saying they're more works of craft than they are art. Arts & craft go hand in hand but they are fundamentally separate. Things like weaving, pottery, embroidery are all crafts made by craftsmen which can be used to convey art. Those media are much closer analogues to what a video game is. A very intricate piece of pottery.

>>715009112
Video games are only cluttered when developers try to turn them into movies. There are games that are purely text based games, meanwhile there are games that have absolutely no writing. There are audiogames that can be played with your eyes closed. Games can target very specific niches, except for when they try to do everything, like moviegames do.

>>714992402 (OP)
>Sakurai defending AI sloppa
>Miyamoto saying videogames are just "a product" to him.
Tendies are having a hard time... their heroes are abandoning them.

>>714992402 (OP)
Well he's largely responsible for turning games into art so he can't change his mind now

>>715010210
>believing mistranslations and hearsay to own le tendies

>>714992402 (OP)
Art can be a product though

>>715010075
The "clutter" for a lack of a better term is the various amounts of craftwork, which I would argue is more about aesthetics which would better communicate the art, rather than being the art itself. Gameplay IS the fundamental aesthetic of a video game as odd as that sounds. Also, I'm not going to debate universalists versus particularists on what art categorically is.

Videogames don't really have that much in common with the more traditional artistic mediums, like paintings and sculptures or music. In spirit, arcadey Videogames are more similar to toys like pinball machines. Moviegames on the other hand would be closer to a rollercoaster. Of course you could add some deeply artistic farthuffing to these things to make them state something, like turning your rollercoaster into an Auschwitz coaster or some shit like that, but it's not what people typically think of when they think of rollercoasters. Miyamoto is simply recognizing what the medium he worked with was about for most people.

>>714992402 (OP)
This senile motherfucker always utters some retarded bullshit nowadays.

If you read old articles and interviews of his younger self it's like 2 different people exist. He used to have very strong opinions about game development and gaming. His time at the movies and theme parks have dulled his senses.

If a film requires you to hit play every few minutes as it automatically pauses it intrinsically becomes a video game.

>>715010882
Sounds about right. Strong opinions on everything is unironically a younger persons trait lol. Wisdom looks strange to people who have none.

>>714997440
>And video games, as a medium, have declared them to not be art
who is this (((video games)))? Can I speak to them?

>>715010349
No one denies that. Everything that is being manufactured at a large scale, that includes movies, books, music, etc... and sold for profit obviously falls under the definition of "product", but there is a distinction between something that is purely utilitarian, purely designed to waste your time, purely designed to fill elevator silence, and something that has artistic merit to it. You can have chair: mass produced, you can sit on it, fart on it. And chair: funky curved form, designed to evoke certain feelings and tickle the soul.

That's why Corporate Memphis is so disgusting while the previous corporate styles, even the clean and simple old IBM style are aesthetic to look at and evoke certain feelings.

>>714992549
>became irrelevant after Mario 64?
He was certainly relevant when he ruined paper mario forever.

>>714995409
Boomers love playing puzzle games and women love playing candy crush, anything more advanced than that is too much for them and besides the point which is killing time.

>>714992402 (OP)
He is a producer not an artist
Makes sense he says that

Not really a place for this kind of request but I am wondering if any of you pplz might have a certain pic from one Cracked article they wrote a few years before they sided with Anita that explained almost everything about this very stupid push for vidya to be considered a legit artform in reply to Roger Ebet's equally retarded article.
It went something like this and was repeated multiple times across every paragraph of said article:
>Ammount of boobies touched by movie directors: LOTS
>Ammount of boobies touched by game devs: NONE

>>715010705
Get into History, paintings were for a long time 99% portraits and the modern equivalent of photography. Sculpture in the ancient greco-roman world was 90% porn. Music was just ambient sound to get drunk or march to war. Plays were just entertainment, chances are arts that are considered noble nowadays were considered no better than video games comparatively. Even cinema was seen as gimmicky shit compared to plays until Hollywood started making proper full length movies.

>>714995952
>>715010029
The only reason not to consider video games as art is because of the way publishers but especially consumers themselves treat them as just toys that can only be improved with technology like for instance the current remake trend has shown. If you look at movies very few remakes are considered superior even though SFX, picture quality and audio has continued to improve at least until the early 2010s when CGI especially seem to have hit a plateau and flat lighting being used to make it easier to "fix" scenes in post-production with only a small handful like The Thing or Scarface being exceptions to the rule.

It's not like this mentality doesn't exist with movies either though. Many people cannot fathom watching black and white films or especially silents but preservation and a way to access old games is not as widespread or as common of a practice as it is with movies. Any TV can play any movie and any blu-ray device can play any blu-ray whereas with video games some were designed only to be run on a specific piece of hardware or software system and copyright laws favor publishers who would rather sit on their old IPs and not make money than releasing it into the wild or licensing them out for other publishers to make available for modern platforms at no cost to themselves and sharing in the profits. GOG is the only equivalent the gaming industry has to something like Criterion or Arrow but I genuinely can't think of a single game that didn't already have an old PC port that they've made available on their store and even then they will still take down games at the publisher's will. In a perfect world copyright laws would work differently for the unique situation that video games are in.

>>714992402 (OP)
>miyamoto is still a has been retard who got lucky.
One more boomer death i'll enjoy greatly.

>>715001869
>I think any creative endeavor is art regardless of quality
By this definition, hacking is an art. Try telling that to anyone without looking like picrel

>>715002065
The picture is wrong btw it's not a matter of taste, rounded and cuter looks like shit.

>>715013697
this. this old geriatric retard has lost the spark many decades ago and i dont know why people still give a shit. he holds/has held great IPs like F-Zero, Star Fox, Metroid, Donkey Kong Country, etc. hostage because his retarded mind cannot conceive of a new game in the IP without some retarded key-jingling gimmick to put into the game. like, a new F-Zero was already proposed by Giles Goddard with online play and more of a focus on vehicle combat, i.e. essentially F-Zero GX with online multiplayer and track creator, but nintendo shot it down because le it doesnt have some gay gimmick that they can put into it + it would "compete" with Mario Kart. its fucking ridiculous and cant wait for this retard to retire

>>714992654
>console games make more money than PC games
Imagine my shock, just goes to show /v/ is an echochamber

>>715001408
They have the most players, not the most whales, which is to be expected

>>715014239
forgot to include this link. its a fascinating watch if you are interested in the subject of attempted F-Zero revivals and how nintendo keeps shooting it down
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocX0LkyXLx4

>>715014239
>this. this old geriatric retard has lost the spark many decades ago and i dont know why people still give a shit. he holds/has held great IPs like F-Zero, Star Fox, Metroid, Donkey Kong Country, etc. hostage because his retarded mind cannot conceive of a new game in the IP without some retarded key-jingling gimmick to put into the game. like, a new F-Zero was already proposed by Giles Goddard with online play and more of a focus on vehicle combat, i.e. essentially F-Zero GX with online multiplayer and track creator, but nintendo shot it down because le it doesnt have some gay gimmick that they can put into it + it would "compete" with Mario Kart. its fucking ridiculous and cant wait for this retard to retire
Do you know there are a lot of tendies who take it personally when you say you despise miyamoto and hope he dies suffering painfully?
kek.

>>714992402 (OP)
that makes sense. nintendo only cares about gameplay rather than story.

>>715004456
>>715004652
i agree. plenty of artists that die with their art appealing to no one

>>714992402 (OP)
he's a retard, but he's right about this

>>714992402 (OP)
Toy company.

>>715002065
>Krabby looks amazing on both sides
Unsurpassable.

Video games are just games.

>>715014393
yeah tendies are retarded and the sky is blue. this is not news to me

>>714994854
RCT is definitely art in terms of its programming. That shit ran like a dream on anything.

>>715014847
yea, the complexity of rct is fucking insane for something written in assembly
chris sawyer's most definitely a code artist

>>714992402 (OP)
>The creator of the "Mario Mandate" thinks that video games are soulless consumer products and not works of art
This isn't news

>>714993353
>>714994282
I believe it, Miyamoto was legit mad when a corporate suit suggested that they release games for free, telling him "you don't know how much work goes into making games"

>>714992545
Miyamoto has had this stance since the dawn of time.

https://yomuka.wordpress.com/2013/08/18/earthbound-64-cancellation-interview-itoi-miyamoto-iwata/

> Miyamoto: No, it’s not that. I think people would still buy the game. Some people even say we should at least let the players enjoy the game as it is, bugs and all, for those who really want it. But this is a product—we can’t just do that. With all the high expectations for success, it’d just end up being outdated.

>>715010705
Pinball machines are art too. They are the ultimate nexus between engineering and more traditionally "artsy" crafts like painting and music.

>>714992402 (OP)
This isn't even arguable. Games are art.

>>714992402 (OP)
Video games aren't art in the same way cartoons are not seen as art but low culture entertainment. The art of video games is about the art of simulation, but we havent reached the level of immersion where that can be taken seriously. I imagine a video game that perfectly simulates what it was like to experience world war 2 as if you literally teleported there would be seen as art as opposed to its escapist fantasy version of simulation in Call of Duty. The more gaming technology advances, the less we need to rely on escapist fantasy to accommodate for the little ways we can experience a simulated reality. And the less escapist fantasy it is, the more it will be art

>>715016201
The Mario Mandate isn't real chuddie
Sticker Star was brewed by Nintendo's top creative minds

>Video games aren't art in the same way cartoons are not seen as art but low culture entertainment.
Yeah Grave of Fireflies definitively isn't art.

>>714992402 (OP)
I agree, now. I used to not. I think video games can be an artistic medium, but the vast majority of video games are capitalistic art - products.

>>715018521
People can describe Grave of The Fireflies as art in the same way people describe Kendrick Lamar as a poet.

>>714992703
Doing it for money isn't what makes it a product. If I pay an artist to make a beautiful painting for me, obviously that's still art. It's even art if I tell them what I want them to draw. It's even art if you make a painting that you think one of Misters A, B, or C might buy.

What makes it a product is that it's produced for the mass market. The two words there being "mass" and "market". It's made for a faceless blob of people, not an actual person(s), and the money comes from an aggregate of free market transactions dependent on advertising and other such supply/demand related considerations.

It's a product the moment you say "I am going to produce 100 paintings this year because I'm pretty sure that some rich guy will buy them".

>>714992402 (OP)
There was no room left to debate this after the release of TotK.

>implying there's a difference
Art and commerce have always been inextricably intertwined.

>>715000223
Yeah, video games are games like sports or chess or closer to toys. The reason why people want it to be art is partially because fine art is seen historically seen as having higher status so people want to make games associated with that.
Ironically, I think this mindset is why Nintendo is so successful; video games are at their core embracing their medium's interactivity by being toys than an interactive drama. The fine arts are cool and all but there's no need to be hung up on not being art. It's not as if the fine arts are in a sterling position of cultural relevance these days anyways instead of relying on past cultural cachet.

Movies are meant to be watched. Does the act of watching a good movie get an emotional reaction out of you? Yes.
Music is meant to be heard. Does the act of hearing a good piece get an emotional reaction out of you? Yes.
Games are meant to be played. Does the act of playing a game get an emotional reaction out of you? No.
>VnR

What about video game movies?

>>714995409
Because the lack physical buttons in a phone is a headache for devs. Most phone and tablets not came with a USB charger and most people not want spend $50 USD in controllers for phones.

>>714992402 (OP)
nintendo doesn't have gamers working for them, just businessmen and lawyers.

Well what's the opinion of the people who actual make the games instead of being the idea guy and (((producer)))?

The filthy cavemen drawing tits on a cave wall didn't consider it art either but they don't get a say in the matter.

>>714992549
Yeah Miyamoto is trash. He doesn't understand games. Probably also thinks OOT is a bad game just like Aonuma

>>715020593
fuck you.

>>715000269
>Do zoomers don't know him?
Hello ESLtard.

>>715021143
i genuinely consider writing code to be no different from writing a song on guitar or building hand-made wooden furniture, as in i consider all of these things art since i put my heart and soul in to them, and i think the metric for "art" is just a thing that has someone's creativity embedded in it, but i know the average gamer would disagree

>>715020593
Reply to this post or your mother will die in her sleep tonight.

>>714992402 (OP)
Who?

>>715020593
you faggot

>>714992735
And this. A literal cube of piss.

>>714995952
As everybody knows that Shakespeare wrote plays for the public. This debunks that art cannot be product. Sure, I may aggrandize the play and the question becomes Can I say a game is better than the play-the discussion becomes loaded, if it's good or better, etc.-who can say.
I can pick SMB, even though it's a product, and analyze the history of platformers from there. I might say it's important, someone could rebunk with a different title they think is influential to platformers, etc.
It's not that I care that a thing is ART. But someone comes and say it's NOT. Even a passerby can't help but question the basis of the claim or if there aren't double standards.
>Addressed in my post.
I don't see where.
>Some of the earliest Mario titles were just remakes- like Super Mario Bros. All Stars.
That's from the SNES, how can you call it an earliest title of a series from the NES? It simply doesn't matter. There are lots of "Juliet 2.0", "Juliet the Movie", "Juliet4kids". and so on. By analogy, I can't give merit to the plays themselves anymore, since everybody is treating them as products.

>>715020392
>Games are meant to be played. Does the act of playing a game get an emotional reaction out of you?
Yes.

>>715021143
Who cares what a bunch of code moneys think? Their thoughts are something that AI can do. That should give you an idea of how sentient they are.

>>714999553
that's because mutts grew up with jap consoleslop and are very nostalgic and protective of it

>>715020303
What really sucks is the prejudice that makes people dismiss games as automatically worse than a book’s story. Plenty of games have proven they can match literature in writing. It’s not even about trying to prove games are “mature” or that I’m not “wasting time” playing, it’s just disrespecting the art itself.

>>714992402 (OP)
if games were art they would sell them for hundreds of dollars instead of 80

>>715019049
Well don't people do that with shit that they draw then mass produce on fucking etsy or something

>>714998336
next you should tell him how they actually used to film entirely different takes for later broadcast, shit will blow his mind

>>715022193
The only real litmus test you need is to ask yourself whether the artist is running a business or not. If they are, it's a product. If they aren't, it's art.

>>715022192
where can i buy wrecking crew for nes for $80?

>>715022171
There is a kernel of truth in the critique though. Most good writing in games is sequential so it can still by and large be replicated in a book.
It is possible to design good writing with an interactive non sequential context unique to video games but it's very difficult to make this not shallow without running into combinatorial issues of complexity that makes it physically impossible to actually write all scenarios.
In comparison, non-verbal gameplay mechanics can create emergent gameplay with much more combinatorial complexity and it's in the possible surprises here that is the "fun" of gameplay.
If anything, I would challenge people's preconceptions on why art is the be all and end all of everything. Ritual, dance, athletics and sports are all usually not classified art yet can be seen as fields for impressive achievements of human culture.

>>715022732
Let me ask you this, if this is art or not.

I resurrect Vincent Van Gogh and commission him to paint something for me, a new work of his that nobody has laid eyes on. I work out a business deal with him and tell him beforehand that I do not plan on displaying this in a gallery at all, but rather that once the work is done I'm going to put it on a shitload of postcards and prints shilling "THE GRAND RETURN OF VAN GOGH" to be sold online.

Is what is contained within it, art?

>>715020593
keep yourself safe

>>714992402 (OP)
Is there a failed bar owner you forgot to ask?

>>714992402 (OP)
True for AAA slop and especially nintendo games, pure garbage.
Indie studios produce works of art.

>>715023038
Yes, because he's not running a business. You are. He's making a one-time deal with you.

>>714992402 (OP)
Who?

>>715023261
And if I tell him when he's resurrected "Hey you know you can probably make a lot if you run a business here and start making works again because you're pretty famous in the present" and he does the same thing without my further input?

>>715023416
Is it a business or not? Like I said, that's the easiest litmus test. Is Da Vinci running a business?

>Games that are considered products by their creators
>Absolutely amazing, represent the medium at its fullest, are timeless and inspire countless of other games
>Games that are considered "art" by their creators
>Lame, tries to mimic other mediums like cinema by putting narrative, visuals and story over gameplay, practically ashamed to be a game

>>714992402 (OP)
same thing

>>714992402 (OP)
>I can't do this thing. I'm not creative.
>What is it?
>Level design.
But video games aren't art?

>>715023705
Does it matter? What if someone finds one of those cards in previous example 300 years later without any of the context surrounding it

>>715020392
>Games are meant to be played. Does the act of playing a game get an emotional reaction out of you?
yes, they do. even something as banal as playing CS and raging. is that not an emotion? disco elysium was an emotional game for me. so was pathologic. is that meaningless to you?

>>714992402 (OP)
They are art but treating them as art makes for a worse game

>>714995409
it's a misleading graphic. Mobile games have the most gacha and in-app purchase shit so they make the more money than console and pc games but from a smaller group of people.

>>714994854
I'd go further and say a game like Sly Cooper is more artistically inclined than TLoU because Sly Cooper isn't fucking scared of its own medium not being taken seriously

Mario in a dress is art whether he likes it or not. It communicates the mental illness of an era to future generations.

>>715013954
It is, yes. Like any kind of coding it requires thinking and being creative.

>>715020392
>Does the act of playing a game get an emotional reaction out of you?
yes?
play better games maybe

>>714992402 (OP)
Video games are art in the sense that they're all an amalgamation of creative efforts and smaller personal touches.
If you want, you can liken them to a high level technical scrapbook or collage.
If corporate meddling or financial incentive invalidates something as art, then any works created for the sake of a patron during antiquity are also invalid.

/v/'s weird stance when it comes to art is ridiculous when you consider how much the board dedicates to calling things ugly or waxing poetically about how they want beauty in games.

>>714992402 (OP)
No shit, Nintendo is a toy company.

>>715025701
/thread

>>714992402 (OP)
>the manufacturer views hammers as "products", not "tools"
doesn't even make sense

>>715025701
There's something important to be said with this. Art has never successfully existed as art for its own sake. When people think "being art" is sufficient to be art, you end up with dirty toilets and shit on a canvas. Art can only become art if you're trying to achieve something with it.

>>714992402 (OP)
well yeah anything that's made to be sold is technically a product

>>714992402 (OP)
>BREAKING NEWS: Stephen Hawking, Guy Who Died In A Chair After Not Being Able To Move, Speak Or Masturbate For 40 Years, Says People Who Boast About Their IQ Are ‘Losers’

>>714992402 (OP)
Video games literally are products that retarded niggers like you waste your life on. Reminder to hang yourself btw

It’s true. It’s a product aimed at children.
That’s all there’s to it.

>>715028984
>Watching a movie
Good for you
>Reading a book
Good for you
>Listening to music
Good for you
>Playing a videogame
STOP IT YOU'RE WASTING YOUR LIFE!!!!!!!

that's how you sound, baitard.

>>715029098
>childrens movies aren't art

>>715020392
based stoic who doesn't get mad when he loses

>>715029098
Gay furry porn games are aimed at children? or are only those games art now.

I've been in other hobbies for a long time did shiggymoto retire?

>>715029148
>NO YOUNG MAN, $80 IS TOO MUCH FOR VIDEOGAMES *buys $400 worth of annuals they never plant*.

Killer7 is art. You can say anything else in this debate, but that is irrefutably true.

>>715024605
Then they might wrongly conclude that it's art. If they gained more context, they'd understand that it was a product.

>>714992402 (OP)
The god of bingtendo has spoken
Childrens consumer slop is NOT art

Pretty funny for a man who destroyed an IP he created all because he liked how one character looked.

I get the sense that most of the younger generations who grew up with video games will see them as art.

>>715028835
Art is folk art. People create art because they genuinely believe in its beauty and value. People who put shit on a canvas only do so because they exist in a culture with no folk tradition. They have nothing to pull from in order to create art. You can't just be told "The Mona Lisa is art!!!". You have to be immersed in a culture and internalize what its art is. This is the nature of being a capitalist imperialist nation. This is why we always have to import our culture from other places - usually poor places, with longer traditions.

You would never smear shit on a canvas and call it art if you'd been soaked in a folk tradition from a young age. The thought wouldn't cross your mind. It'd be embarrassing. The wealthy are always the first to lose their traditions, and then they perpetuate their lack of tradition by trading amongst themselves.

>Make interactive movie
>refuses to call it art
Genuinely "why"? It's not a videogame, you'd think that'd be a qualifier for calling it art.

the easiest thing is just to admit literally everything is art regardless if you want it to be. somebody out there will see it as art

Iwata
>programmer who climbed his way up to the top
>made kino every single time
Miyamoto
>nepo baby who got his job because of his dad
>directed the company to be soulless slop after Iwata passed

Nintendo games won't be good until Koizumi comes back.

>>715029805
this thread would all be in agreement if he said his video games were all products and not art.

>>715030345
Star Fox 64 does have a cinematic feel. A shame they couldn't top it, despite having much better hardware.

>>714993604
I have been cussing out that piece of shit since the day he did the F-Zero Wii interview.

>>715020593
fell for it award.

>>714997356
You must have really been impressed with nicacado avacado's asshole, given how it has seared itself in so many people's consciousness.

>>715014426
people saying art creation should be some democratic process is how you end up with slop

>>714999808
>see one of the top 5 is Greenland
What the fuck? Why are people in Greenland killing themselves to such a high degree? What the fuck is in Greenland is worth killing yourself over, you can just leave!

>>714992402 (OP)
True.

>>715029539
those are not games. it’s a mental illness that needs to be dealt with

>>714995952
SHIThan rats really think like this.

>>715010882
Japs are 30 years behind. US was all about theme parks and movies. Miyamoto still chasing that dream

>>714992402 (OP)
You think he'd view them more as toys given his history. I mean, you play with them and you primary way of entertainment is extremly self motivated compared to other forms of media. You don't say you're going to 'play' with a movie, or play with a book. You watch and read them and the way you enjoy those is a much more controlled experience than playing with toys and video games.

>>715030048
I think that that's a factor as well, but it brings up the question of how folk art is created. I think folk art tends to be strongly tied to how they live and, thus, tied to specific purpose and use.

>>715030616
Once Aunoma is gone there will be no more Shiggy Jr.s doing all the work that people attribute to him.

>>715030874
They call it the "tech demo" series when in reality it was Hooked on Phonics series for Nintendo where they learned how to make 3d games and put together an iconic movie game out of scraps. They then had their second party dev make a fucking adventure game out of it because they were that clueless what to do with it and we all know how that went.

>>715000269
>Can't read

>>714992402 (OP)
>drawings are art
>animations are art
>music is art
>programming is art
>put all of that together
>suddenly it's not art
This debate is retarded.

>>715031483
So they're art but not games?

or are they not art because of the depicted content?

can you go through e621 and tell me which pictures are art and which aren't if that's the case.

>>714992402 (OP)
mario is not a good game either

The vast majority of entertainers become what Sam Hyde describes as the cool jacket wearing tech nerd.

It's basically older men realizing they became famous over nerdy hobbies so it's a way of separating themselves from it.

That's actually why Walt Disney wanted to build Epcot which was supposed to be this city based on new technology and innovation.

I guess it's better to be remembered for cool hobbies then nerd hobbies.

>>715032107
Unless video games are anti art.

>>714992402 (OP)
>I wanted to make a game that captures the feeling of adventure I had as a child when I would explore my neighborhood
>it's not art though, just a product lol
Alas, the boomer mind virus has taken another victim.

>>715032308
than

What could possibly make you think otherwise?
There is a reason why no one takes games seriously.

>>715032721
normalfags don't count anon

>>715032721
>CRT's basement tourneys, swear on my mothers grave. Sick fucks even played it on a grave.

>>714992402 (OP)
Even if games are art, someone still needs to pay for it for the artist to eat. Developers approach being an artist like they're a painter, whereas they should approach it like they're part of a troupe, or a band. You want repeat customers and you want a lot of them.

>>714992402 (OP)
That's why his games suck though? The creators that view it as art will create art, and he will create products.

>>715030616
This thing came out during Iwata's reign btw.

>>715029907
Yeah. People were harping about this so-called Citizen Kane moment for video games to be taken seriously as an art form. There's not going to be such a thing overnight; it'll be a slow process of recognition from generations after us that grew up with the medium.

Some movies are art, some are products, some games are art, some are products.

>>715033278
The Citizen Kane moment happened in earnest 40 years ago with Super Mario Bros. Beloved in its time, and the envy of the rest of the medium because it was so far ahead of what everyone else was doing, to the point that it seems like a marvel even today. The lesser, more modern Citizen Kane moment happened 10 years later with Earthbound, in that it's a good game in its own right, but is mostly held up by people who have never played it.

>>715031348
like the story with many inuit; alcoholism and poverty. the ones that do leave would obviously not be part of the statistic. per capita it makes sense for it to have such a high percentage considering how low the population is in the first place and how there is basically nothing there.

>>714997598
The game isn't the texture you stupid faggot.

>>715007076
common sense based on the opinion from some retard on a prison gay pedophile forum

>>715003876
yeah, that's kind of what appreciating art is if you're not a (((postmodernist)))

>>715034848
that has nothing to do with postmodernism. you are still in this 2018 jordan peterson phase in 2025, nigga?

>>715036021
>postmodernist gobbledygook like saying technical craft isn't real art has nothing to do with postmodernism
>muh jordan peterson (????)
you sound like you have brain damage

>>715031739
It just takes a long time living as a community. The community develops a culture, and art springs from that. Community is another reason why the poor tend to be the most artistic. Rich people don't live communally.

Black people in America have developed like twelvw different forms of folk music and dance in the last century alone. White people in America have developed... have white people developed any? Rock, I guess. Pop music. Lots of stuff that was only ever intended to be sold as a product, not really ever something used as a shared cultural medium for communication or expression. I mean, the white people can't dance meme comes from somewhere, and it's from white people literally not having a cultural dance.

>>714992402 (OP)
Just because Nintenslop isn't art, doesn't mean games can't be art

>>714994854
Agreed 100%, you get vidya the contrarian replies don't.

>>714995952
The fuck is this image? Is /dbs/ okay?

What difference does it make either way?

>>715014746
>he always wanted to just run around and play in the woods
doing what?

>>715031139
i partially disagree. you can have great art by one singular vision; many sitcoms, comedy shows or shows in general have a writing room for a reason.
what's not needed is someone who has unresolved mental issues

I'll never get why people are obsessed with a label

>>715038584
You're incredibly naive if you think American blacks and American whites all don't share cultures that overlap, especially when it comes to modern music. Ebonics is quite literally derived from lower class white colloquialisms of American Brits. You discount "white culture" because part of white culture is technically not claiming ownership of a certain custom. Things like comic books, tabletop and most of hobby culture is technically "white culture" but saying it like that runs in the face of white moralists.

>>715042553
"People" are not.
People, that would be nothing without a label, are.
They want an excuse to produce shit, that does not sell and get subsidized by the public in return.

The fucking pile of shit you flush down the toilet is "art".
"art" is a completely worthless label - unless you want government funding based on that label.

If Thanos dabbing in Fortnite is art so is video games

>>715042553
It's a human construct that has social currency as something valuable but doesn't exactly hold physical value. That's is the core reason why people want things that they like to be called a "work of art".

>>715042504
Some of the greatest artists suffered from mental issues like Van Gogh, Kafka, Hemingway, Da Vinci etc.

art has lost all meaning ages ago.

These days, you can shit on a canvas and it's considered art by rich retards.

>>714992402 (OP)
And he is completely right. They are entertainment products that contain art, but are in themselves not actually art.

>>714992690
I do and he’s right. Games aren’t art. They’re products aimed at children and teens. Notice how games can’t even tackle controversial subjects without getting censored to shit (see the recent Ready or Not controversy.) Literature and Cinema are art, games are not and never will be. They’re about as artistic as porn is.

>>715038929
Do you really need to ask that question?

>>715047006
>he thinks books or cinema never get censored
>cinematic marvelslop is art

>>715000269
>average zoomGOD hater is ESL jeet
figured

>>715000269
That's literally what he is though. Like it or not he is in fact just some guy that made a game 40 years ago. Time passes, the medium moves on. His contributions were legendary at the time but he has no special insight or understanding of how games are now.

>>715014262
That's like saying
>phone games make more money than real video games
>Imagine my shock, just goes to show /v/ is an echochamber
Very casual is bigger than casual, which is bigger than non-casual.

>>714992402 (OP)
Depends on the game. Same thing for all other mediums. Fortnite and Avengers Endgame definetly aren't art.

products of an industry are judged on an artisanal scale, this entire argument centers on a definition of art that is completely separated from actual labor or skill

I pretty much hate everything Miyamoto stands for, but dammit I love his games

>>714992402 (OP)
his works surely arent
yes

>>715030616
Iwata sucked.

Even ChatGPT thinks that video games are art.

>>714992402 (OP)
no, it just means that's how he approaches game design

it doesn't mean other design approaches aren't art

banana

>>714994620
based

>>714997092
>Are games as art in the same sense that novels, paintings, movies are about exploring the human condition and do philosophy?
>No.
some are, but most are not

also not every novel/painting/film explores the human condition, they can also be disposable meaningless entertainment

>>714995528
Deus Ex
Deus Ex Human Revolution
Deus Ex Mankind Divided

>>714992402 (OP)
I guess that is why Nintardo has been producing slop for fucking retards and children for 30 years

>>715012196
>paintings were for a long time 99% portraits and the modern equivalent of photography. Sculpture in the ancient greco-roman world was 90% porn. Music was just ambient sound to get drunk or march to war.

This is literally not true in the slightest. Get into history is right.

>>714992402 (OP)
There is interactive art, and there is art in games, but games on their own, are not art.

>>715000269
Maybe you shouldn't be in such a rush to post your opinion and try reading that text again?
An "Ex-Nintendo Dev" says that Miyamoto views games as products. It doesnt say that Miyamoto said that, nor that Miyamoto is an Ex-Nintendo Dev.

>>714997265
Kek the way he is laying in a 90 degree angle in the casket.

>>715052069
But I played a new Pilotwings game on my 3DS, did that game not exist?

>>714992402 (OP)
>Miyamoto
Wasnt he dead? Or was that some else

>>714994525
Explain how that video portrays art, either crappy or not

>>714992402 (OP)
Some videogames are products, some are art. Same as with movies.

>>714995528
Personally i think Nintendo games are probably the most artistic games on the market, but since you asked for one. Legend of Mana is the absolute silver bullet that kills "game's can't be art". the game is pure art from the ground up and even passes the "this was clearly a labor of love and not made as a product" test because the game is such a mess you can't even say the devs intended it to be fun to play.
it's just gorgeous, arcane, and obtuse.

>>714995952
>Starry Night isn't art, it's a product. Van Gogh painted it in hopes that he could trade it for a few pints of beer.

>>714996635
it's largely lost in translation, but he's saying Miyamoto designs games from the perspective of "what does the player want from this" and not "what self expression am i the dev, trying to create here".
It's not intended as a claim that "Miyamoto is a soulless business man who hates games" like OP is pretending.

>>714992402 (OP)
He's unironically right.

As long as games have cringe marketing, microtransactions, and require specific hardware to run properly, they will remain entertainment products distinct from art.

And that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that. What's so great about art, anyway? Not everything can be an awe-inspiring vista, either.

>>714992402 (OP)
Based

>>714993873
>hurr durr le evil work culture!
Reddit meme. The US has a worse work culture than Japan