Thread 715199694

>Dungeon Crawler
>It has either Low positivity or Mixed Reviews on Steam
How do we save the genre?

Notch is working on it.

stop caring about reviews
you can tell which games are good
like that one

>>715199694 (OP)
FLONNE?

Only let Finland make them.

why are disgaea in a dungeon crawler?

>>715199694 (OP)
Get someone other than Experience to make them.

Yo, this game's on sale for ten bucks and I'm in the mood for dungeon crawling. Tell me the Disgaea characters are actually in it and I'll pull the trigger right now.

We don't. Normalfags shouldn't be playing these games in the first place.

I want to get into these games, but theyre just so god damn boring to look at. Wow (usually) still .png's of enemies and mediocre animations.

How about we start with literally any visual fidelity to them? Wizardy Daphne, despite being a mobile gotcha game, has cool first person combat turn based combat now. Makes the presentation so much better, and it's locked to a damn mobile game.

>>715201720
>>715201397
Ah dammit, I looked it up and apparently the Disgaea characters (really just portraits) are only available for the Vita version, but Extra is considered an improvement across the board besides that.

Eh, fuck it. I'm gonna consoom. People seem to be pretty positive about it and I like the character designs.

>>715201814
Most are already braindead easy as is, how can they make it more braindead easy?

>>715199694 (OP)
Demon Gaze filters people because the combat is a lot more about setup and managing buffs than anything else. In terms of attacking you don't do anything except spam multi hit attacks or party wide slashes, but you have to constantly manage the other mechanics and buffs/debuffs or you'll just die unceremoniously. This is counter to what most people are used that is more DPS focused while healers just maintain the status quo for you.

Love the soundtrack to this game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7KcdTVey_U

>>715202024
If it’s on PC i’m pretty sure there’ll be mods

>>715202024
Remember to pay your rent, anon!

It's dead genre that needs someone to revolutionize it in some way. Grimrock had a big initial resurgence but by Grimrock 2 nobody cared anymore and it bombed.

>>715202267
Which is bullshit because Grimrock 2 is miles better than the first. Though from what I've heard the studio crumbled due to internal strife anyway, selling better wouldn't have changed its fate.

>>715199694 (OP)
I wonder if there's an updated DRPG infographic out there, surely there's more to the genre than Wizardry, Might & Magic, Legend of Grimrock, SMT, Etrian Odyssey or Labyrinth of Refrain/Galleria

>>715202212
Anything for my wife.

>>715202153
Outside of cheat engine tables, I'm not seeing anything on Nexus, Gamebanana, or ModDB. Doesn't look like you can add custom portraits like in some other DRPGs, either. Ah well.

>>715199694 (OP)
They're an acquired taste, and usually require a ton of trial-n-error, RNG, grinding, and sometimes drawing your own maps. on top of a lot of micromanagement since they usually have more than the standard 4-niggas in a row.

Theres games like class of heroes, which goes out of its way to mess with the player, and you can't even heal your allies without a chance of them dying, and cant even disarm a trap without a chance of it failing. The kind of game where your first 2 playthroughs are just a tutorial essentially
Then theres dungeon crawlers that easy to get into like artificial dream of arcadia and other SMT clones.

For me, it really depends. I don't mind dungeon crawlers, but i also prefer them to be a more comfy experience

>>715202598
>didn't survive Squid Game
lmao

I've had a dumb idea for a series of games so I may as well share it here.

The idea is based on invading super-beings from another world looking to steal a magic sword, with the gimmick being that each game expands the scope.

The first game would be a first person dungeon crawler, with the dungeon introducing fantasy elements to the world.
The second would be a JRPG travelling across the world to reclaim the sacred sword.
The third would be an SRPG.
The fourth would be a turn based strategy. etc.

Each game would star the same bloodline, set 100 years apart. Each would also feature the scope and scale of the invasions increasing.

>>715202598
> but i also prefer them to be a more comfy experience
Agreed, I liked Stranger of the Sword City but all the bullshit it throws at you sours the enjoyment that it hard to replay.

>>715202598
>and you can't even heal your allies without a chance of them dying
This is genuinely my favourite mechanic. I have never had a more memorable Vidya experience than the time I died 2-3 hours into fighting Pandora in Persona 1 (took that long since I didn't know about the Ultimate Personas) because for the first time in my entire playthrough a healing spells missed two of my characters.

>>715202024
The default portraits are still great, though they have a bit of contrast since they're often by different artists.

The game itself is worth playing even if Disgaea portraits were a huge selling point, it is one of the very few drpgs that handles every single aspect well. Other games do individual aspects way better than Demon Gaze of course, but having all the interworking parts simultaneously well made is quite rare.

>>715202948
In Class of Heroes' case, attempting to revive a character may turn them to ash instead of successfully reviving, and if you fail the revive roll a second time they're gone for good.

For starters, make them third person, like Phantasy Star 2 or SMT Nocturne.
If you must make them first person, make them stealth adventure games like the two Ravenloft games.

>>715204253
That's pretty harsh, but drpgs need some form of punishment whether that's wasting mana/items because you went the wrong way in a maze, having to trek all the way back to a place you made a mistake or losing characters entirely. It all makes the player more invested in the outcomes. That type of thing isn't bad assuming the game also gives you way to passively raise inactive characters like Etrian Odyssey, and you don't just have to start over entirely from scratch.

Add more cute furry women

>>715202051
I get most of the symbolism being pointed out but why does Gretel wielding a scythe matter? If anything it should be flames or something.

>>715199694 (OP)
make them fun to play
I could finish strange journey redux, I couldn't finish shit like galleria

>>715204253
That's just old-school Wizardry rules. If you want to discuss DRPGs it behooves you to read up on the classics, grasshopper.

>>715199694 (OP)
Dungeon Crawlers, but more especifiquez Etrian Odyssey, killed my motivation to play any open world game.
Skyrim was the most ofensive, it that game, you could only use one mark on the map. Just fucking one.
I never realized how fun was to mess with maps until I played dungeon crawlers, and now evert time I play a game that has a map in it that either lack plenty of marks or allow you to mess with it, I kind of drop it.

>>715205558
>galleria
Seriously, how the fuck do you downgrade so badly from the first game. There was legit self-sabotage with that game.
I'm not upset it gets shame for the slut jokes alone.

>>715206034
Was the first one better? Never played that one

>>715206034
>There was legit self-sabotage with that game.
I mean it's basically true, Nis rushed out the game and the devs couldn't even add everything they wanted

Then the lead director (and writer) for the series left

>your jpgs fight their jpgs
Amazing

>>715201904
>mediocre animations
And they are better for that too. Dungeon crawlers are much faster solely because they lack animations and aren't trying to be movies. Its all that unnecessary animations and load times that drag down most 3D rpgs. For 3D games its like

>battle starts
>black loading screen
>gaming zooming in on your party
>your turn comes up
>menus are often times laggy as shit
>tell one of your characters to attack
>character then cartwheel, back flips, summersaults, run up buildings, chant some magic chi nonsense
>the final attack is just the character pulling out a gun and shooting the enemy
>enemy has stagger animation every time they get hit
>repeat above for the next 2-3 niggas in a row
>battle ends
>victory dance animation
>another black loading screen just to get to the results menu
And each time you're waiting on animations to end before you can do anything. Meanwhile Dungeon crawlers

>battle starts
>everything loads up instantly
>select an enemy or attack
>they attack instantly
>can take out 9 enemies in the time it takes to take out 3 in a normal 3D rpg
>battles end like hitting a light switch
5th gen really corrupted a generation into thinking all that unnecessary animation is good. Dungeon crawlers are just normal rpgs without the bloat, half the time at least.

>>715199694 (OP)
>It has either Low positivity or Mixed Reviews on Steam
???

>>715199694 (OP)
Stop buying atlus trash. Pretty simple desu

Cuckshed RPG might actually come out this month.

>>715204253
Had fun with 2G. Remember walking through a door and have my entire party instantly die except for 1 member. There was a pool of acid on the other side and only avoided a game over because one of my party members was the angel race that happened to be flying at all times.

>>715206374
I stopped playing this garbage when the whore dropped the animal inside the dungeon, what a STUPID NIGGER WHORE

>>715206762
He got better

>>715199694 (OP)
Looks turn based instead of a grid dance.
The PC market has always gravitated more towards gird dances since Ultima Underworld blew everyone's dicks off in 92.
Turn based was the domain of consoles and then handheld once those became viable but did not survive the transition over to the switch.
In other words you save turn based dungeon crawlers by making them smartphone viable.

>>715206762
That's like 5 min into the game

>>715205504
The best guess is in that pic, it's probably supposed to represent killing the witch. Not like using an Axe would make sense since they aren't exactly tied to their father as a woodcutter, and flames are already a common motif visually + would overlap when they used the little match girl later.

The one I don't get is Charlotte.
>storyteller theme
>bunny elements
>bookmarks that look like crosses
>hearts everywhere
You could maybe say she's the white rabbit or something from Alice in Wonderland, but that doesn't fit with everyone else being the main characters of their fables.

>>715207041
I thought Charlotte was the 'original character do not steal' skelter?
Been a while since I finish the series.

>>715206353
Yeah maybe if you only play shit games that don't know how to properly pace battle animations. There's a reason every remaster under the sun allows you to up the animation speed 2x or 3x.

40 year old genre problems. No more ideas left. You have to add an epic postmodern toby fox twist to it to stick like void stranger did for sokoban. Or just add a bunch of coombait

>>715207714
>Yeah maybe if you only play shit games that don't know how to properly pace battle animations
The real red pill here is this is every 5th and 6th gen rpg.

>There's a reason every remaster under the sun allows you to up the animation speed 2x or 3x.
Even needing speed up at all just proves my point even more at how slow they are. Some of which still aren't fast enough even with all the speed ups especially when compared to classic styled dungeon crawlers.

Oh and forgot one more

>hp draining animation
Take the dungeon crawler pill people.

>>715199902
owes me sex

>>715208890
>>>715207714 (You)
So I'm a SaGa guy, in the remake for Romancing SaGa 2, most animations are 2-4 seconds (The final skills are too long, but they're also pretty late in the game). In my experience with dungeon crawlers moves 1-2 seconds, it's not that big of difference.

Like I said though I do want to get into these games, so recommend me one to try. I like deep combat, customization, and preparation.

>>715202448
>Experience's shit
>Acquire's shit (Class of Heroes ports, and Labyrinth of Zangetsu)
>the fucking Wizardry gacha that's higher budget than everything since like Tales of the Forsaken Land/Busin 0
>Wizardry Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord remake
>Wizardy The Five Ordeals remake
>I know these last three have been Wizardry, but I'm mentioning them anyway because fuck you
>Dungeon Travellers ports
>Kowloon port
>Remyadry
>Serment
>Potato Flowers in Full Bloom
>Haunted Dungeons Hyakki Castle
>Thysiastery
Think that's probably all an updated infographic might need.

>>715210905
Grimoire
Elminage series
Infinite Adventures

I have a sealed copy of Demon Gaze 2 on the PS4 that I bought years ago in the bargain bin and then promptly forgot about. Apparently it's worth a decent amount on eBay because it got delisted from PSN a while ago - is it worth playing or do I just cash in?

good thread, i was in the mood for a drpg with anime tiddies

>>715199694 (OP)
I can't slog trough these games the only one I completed was Bunny Black

>>715212747
You're not going to get a ridiculous amount for it like Godzilla PS4, anon. The only demand is because it's not readily available in English at the moment, unless I'm forgetting some method, but it's not like the other versions are going away and the series isn't popular so there's not a mad rush for it.

It has a niche appeal due to the tone, artstyle, ecchi moments, drpg gameplay, odd combat system, etc. Personally I think it's an extremely good game, at least

>>715213357
I was so addicted to this shit, but I got stuck just before the boss and said fuck it. I might go back to it, since it got a sequel and all.

>>715210905
what about Dungeon Encounters? I liked it.

I haven't played too many crawlers, any good ones with a focus on guns? Not like EO2 gunner, where it's just a different flavor of ranger/caster, but different weapon classes, attachments, fire modes, ammo management, reloading. Really liked Evening Starter.

>>715212410
I would imagine there's already a DRPG infographic with Elminage on, but worth pointing out the more recent ports I guess, and Infinite Adventures. Surely Grimoire: Heralds of the Winged Exemplar is on all the infographics since they have existed.

>>715213821
I forgot it existed, since I heard somewhat mixed things, but I just love the idea of running around on top of paper maps as the dungeon.

>>715199694 (OP)
You can't.
Dungeon crawlers are naturally limited in audience size because they are almost always low fidelity, have a low diversity of gameplay, and require a lot of patience, but are attractive because of intangibles like atmosphere.
This naturally limits their audience in all but the most exceptional circumstances.

>>715202448
Ultima, my nigga.

>>715213821
Insulting, to be honest. A game looking like that would only be acceptable on graphing calculator.

>>715213357
This is probably the only Kemco game I'd get.

All I want is a good UI built for mouse and keyboard.

>>715202448
>>715210905
It's not on PC but The Dark Spire is really really good. Wizardry Empire 2: Legacy of the Princess is also good.
>>715213821
I really love Dungeon Encounters, very underrated game. It scratches a very similar itch despite not being first-person.

>>715199694 (OP)
Maybe update the fucking genre so that the combat isn't represented in an archaic way where your characters are represented by portraits and your enemies are static images and the attacks are cheap visual effects.

>>715199694 (OP)
Gacha?

>>715199694 (OP)
God I wish NIS wasn't retarded and where like their PS2 days again... even their PS3 days where comparatively good compared to what we have now

>>715220139
>Story will never reach its conclusion
>Party locked behind gacha
>Units locked to whatever their 3-4 spells are just to be powercrept later
I legit dont know why would anyone play this over literally any other dungeon crawler- pantyquest rpgs included.

>>715214232
smt 1/2 kinda, stun bullets are OP in 1 but different guns have different fire rates.

So I've started Demon Gaze. Pretty neat so far with how gathering spots work, but so far the difficulty seems a bit unbalanced. I'm mowing through random encounters and "Elite Spaces" or whatever they're called, but the boss of the area completely annihilated me. I guess it's trying to tell me to go to the other area and clear both of them out before taking on the bosses, but it's still annoying. Ah well.

>>715202948
>fighting Pandora in Persona 1
God, I loved that fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUjcsNDVCLc

>>715205395
bnuuy

>Dungeon Crawler
>It doesn't feature Flonne
No thanks!

I just can’t get into them. I fall asleep playing them for some reason.

>>715223445
Same, I tried playing like 3 EOs and always quit halfway thru after I unlock subclasses

Is Demon Gaze any fun?

>>715223598
Its alright but slightly overrated to me. Personally the story gets in the way all the time.

All experience inc games are exactly the same

>>715221215
Because everything you said is wrong except the story part. Doubt it'll get to the 12th abyss.
>picture
This is the abilities from a standard, non-legendary priest with no extra inherited skills and I haven't even class changed her to mage, which would almost double her current set of skills.

>>715221215
>Story will never reach its conclusion
That's a good thing, as pretty much every RPG excels as setting up a story but fails at reaching a satisfying conclusion.

>Party locked behind gacha
Its a gacha, you can reroll if you absolutely must have the perfect party, but you don't really need to worry about it.

>Units locked to whatever their 3-4 spells are just to be powercrept later
I think you mean skills; all legendaries have a couple of perks that differentiate them from each other and make them stand apart from the lower grade of units. All gacha games thrive on hyping up the new units to try and get people to spend for fear of missing out, and maybe the power creep will become unreasonable, but so far I'd rather have more Alice dupes.

I'd never recommend someone play a gacha, but I like Daphne as much as a I like the pantyquest rpgs I've played and will continue to recommend both equally.

>>715221307
what the fuck are you me
i also picked it up because of this thread and also chose the same portrait
get out of my head charles

>>715223445
>>715223502
Its definitely an acquired taste. I didn't care much for them at first and found them pretty boring too but it would take for me to keep trying different ones then going back to modern rpgs to really appreciate them more. Probably when I got older is when I eventually started craving them more. It was little things they do, they excel at compared to other rpgs.

>buffs matter
>debuffs matter, even on bosses
>party formations fell like they actually matter
>difficulty
>faster battles
>optional: job/class systems

And the sense exploration by filling out a dungeon map. I consider them the arcade of rpgs because they're easy to pick up and put down if they don't have some epic long story and they honestly don't need a story either.

>>715225305
thats all the shit that should be up my alley, esp the ones that lean into resource mgmt and survival mechanics
but something about the hyper focus on pre-battle strategy resulting in 3 second battles that most people auto through just pulls me out
Not that it's easy to make "attack" vs "attack but this flavor of magic" engaging, but somehow trad rpgs manage to do it

>>715205395
Bushi sex

I have come here to remind you all to play Potato Flowers in Full Bloom, the most soulful RPG I've ever played.

>>715220139
I really wish this wasn't a gacha, I love the look/style of this game

>>715202448
Are you still here, anon?

>>715226756
Every thread you give me this reminder and every thread I immediately forget.

I checked my library and it turns out I already bought it though so your propaganda worked a little.

>>715226927
Gachas in general man.
Shit sucks but it pays the bills.

>>715226927
It's one of the better gachas I've tried since there's an actual real game in there and the gameplay isn't just a shallow front for collecting PNGs.

>>715199694 (OP)
kill every drpg with procedural generation

>>715199694 (OP)
I'm playing The Fall of the Dungeon Guardians right now. It's basically Grimrock with more rpg combat. Pretty good so far

>>715226927
>>715220139
Everything about it but the fact it's movil slop is exactly what I want from these games

>>715199694 (OP)
they all have godawful art styles.

>>715227152
I can really only hope that it gets an Offline version eventually like Mega Man X Dive did.

>>715227350
Would skg apply to gacha and mobile games?

>>715227482
It would not for free to play games because they are not sold to people. We've simply bought things inside of something that we don't own or some shit like that

>>715227482
It also doesn't apply retroactively.

Make it like Mary Skelter

>>715221307
Nah, Mars is the first boss. It's both an equipment and party composition check, basically a tutorial for those circles. You need the stats to survive her attacks in the first place, but you also "need" a healer since she's constantly using AOEs and someone to tank hits. I don't remember what skills you have available at this point, but the next boss you'll come across is probably Hermes and for him you won't win without speed debuffs.

The random encounters will never be balanced in the game sadly, it's the game's biggest flaw. At best occasionally you'll run into a massive swarm that takes a ton of effort and later there's a handful of areas with specific Elites who mess you up, however the bosses are all really good and take a lot to overcome.

Also random advice,
>don't ever sell Uniques, they are actually one of a kind
>Never sell your Healing Staff since it's a few infinite use potion when not in battle
>Mages can "use" any staff from your inventory in battle to cast a spell without using their mana
>Do NOT use any Artifact Gems until you have +2 Gems to use with them

Use unicorn overlord's combat system. Im tired of going through menus desu

>>715228028
UO is not a dungeon crawler...

>>715227890
I dunno, all I did was have one character beef tank with devotion and put everyone else on auto attack. Worked fine for me.
Having your parties forcibly swap rows was annoying though because I had to turn the auto off.

>>715228008
Filthy half-breed

I hope this one is actually better with all the changes from 2
https://store.steampowered.com/app/3301820/Class_of_Heroes_3_Remaster/

>>715228162
>I dunno, all I did was *literally the thing you said to do*
Anon, you goofball. The fact that you already had a 3rd party member means you've progressed a fair bit in terms of strengthening your team, in my case for example I reached her at like level 4 or so with two members.
Anyway now your decision is whether or not you'll abuse how broken Mars is as a demon summon for the rest of the game or actually use the other diverse demon playstyles.

>>715228157
No bro the OP asked what could be done to freshen up the genre and I really liked what UO did.

>>715228226
>Dwarf
This is going in the book.

>>715199694 (OP)
make it look like a tiddy png collector gacha but hide a dungeon crawler inside

This is going to sound retarded and specific but what are some crawlers that let you play as a samurai with skills with that sort of flavor, Ive only really played EO before.

>>715228226
Sex with dwarf. Too bad I'm kinda retarded and don't know how to play that game

>>715228162
Dungeon Crawlers have truly taught me the only purpose of tanks is to be a stationary wall of harden flesh that uses one move and one move only no matter the situation.
And I love them.

>>715228863
is this better?

>>715228946
Tanks go in the left slot, no matter what.

>>715228882
Undernauts had a samurai class iirc

>>715228963
balls of steel

>>715228162
>have one character beef tank with devotion and put everyone else on auto attack
You figure out 1/3 of the meta strat
>Make your tank the only front row character
>unlock that skill that enable autocover backrow characters when the tank defends
>unlock ninja's parry for tank
>dump points in LUCK and AGI (I think)
>now whenever the tank defenses, they have 99% of covering your 4 backrow characters and 99% to parry, nullifying damage of most single attacks

>>715228882
Can't think of anything too unique. In SoSC and Demon Gaze, Sam has a skill where they trade blows with an enemy in one turn until one of you die. It's kind of shit since it's always suicidal to try to make bosses attack multiple times. In Elminage, they are simple murder machines that parry and counterattack with a chance of behead on top, and samurai enemies can do the same to you.

pretty neat game, except when your party members are being giga racist to one another.

If there was a SaGa Frontier dungeon crawler it would be the best, most obtuse game ever.
Just imagine... sparking skills, formations, 90% of mechanics unexplained.
How do I learn spell? No one knows.
I slept at the inn and didn't recover any MP. What do I do? Reclass or enjoy your brick.

>>715229678
Demon Gaze tank doesn't need LUC or AGI as much. VIT is the number one priority, then you can raise those two a little since AGI affects turn order/evasion and LUC (iirc) affects the chance of being afflicted with status effects. You shouldn't put any points into STR or the magic stat unless you have a weird party composition.

>>715199694 (OP)
What game?

Which game has the best uoh

>>715220139
Honestly it is very niche, but that is if you like Dungeon Crawlers especially oldschool difficulty you will like this kind of game.

>>715199694 (OP)
third person view

no teleport / waste time traps

>>715199694 (OP)
>How do we save the genre?
Reject garbage, lazy-ass DRPGs with anime on the cover.
Play better DRPGs and develop an actual opinion on what constitutes good dungeon design. Take a step back and ask yourself after each floor, "in 1 short sentence, what was the main theme of this floor" and if you can't answer it in a way that is clear and distinct, then you are playing a bad DRPG (hint: most anime DRPGs are comprised mainly of floors that are not created with care or thought, but are simply the designer shitting squares onto a grid paper going "most DRPG players are too retarded to care anyway" - and it's true, but it doesn't have to be).

>>715230590
So what you're saying is that the OP game is a good dungeon crawler.

>>715230842
No.

>>715202051
no little merm variant?

>>715230887
Yes.

>>715199694 (OP)
NIS please... please throw me into the labyrinth again

>>715230887
But you can take a step back and clearly define what the theme of each floor is in Demon Gaze, so by your definition it is good design.

>>715231016
Name 10 floors and their themes (no, not the "background design" or "art direction", but "what was the main gameplay feature of this floor compared to the rest of the floors")

How do I get better at Mary Skelter 2? I keep party wiping to random mobs.

>>715228226
OH SHIT, when was 3 announced? Either way, doing gods work unlike VIC.

>>715231065
You do that for a good drpg in your eyes first.

>>715231003
the main writer left the company, its fucking OVER bro.

>>715231441
back to the NIS loli torture games i go ti guess.

>>715231596
Luca why did she have to grow up into such a bitch bros? we raised her better than that...

>>715199694 (OP)
By not being a low effort indie game or something that looks fucking Ancient. That's a start

>>715231274
Not how it works, fag.
You're being asked to defend your slop ass anime DRPG and the fact that you refuse to do such a simple task tells me either
>the games are in fact slop and you can't draw a clear distinction between the floors on a thematic, gameplay level
>you didn't actually play the game

>>715231851
Baiting someone else into putting in far more effort than it takes you to just say "no, actually" also isn't how it works fuckhead.

>>715199694 (OP)
I like the ones who has story characters playable.
I hate those you need to manually create characters.
That's why I didn't buy EO on steam.

>>715231126
The game is actually balanced fairly well so most classes and party compositions will be able to succeed, but some are better than others obviously. What I did was build around blood spray and critical hits for melee characters as Destroyer or Marshal. You'll not only deal huge damage, but also trigger roulette often.

Next you'll want something like Paladin with the Cover skill that will take the brunt of attacks. In MS2 Hameln is really good at that.

Mage can work for damage if you want as well, personally I used Thumbelina for my other DPS/support because she's best girl, but you need the expensive spell that uses all the elements for mages to help with damage and it'll still be weaker than melee no matter what you do.

You also want a good support who can do Roulette/Mimic shenanigans like Gretel or Snow White, then change them to something like Item Meister or Therapist. I wanna say Therapist was the class with the best healing spell, but I don't remember clearly.

Finally you probably want a "ranged" class like Sleepy because they're the best at applying debuffs and stuff like that. Dark Seeker Sleepy was a beast.

As best as I can recall anyways.

>>715227117
combat is all it has
the devs went back and added some basic puzzles to the first few levels to entice people
it devolves into full mmo meter management with nothing else later on

>>715202267
Wizardry Variants Daphne did a first person mode which upped the intensity, along with animated party characters. It's mobileslop, but that automatically puts it leagues above most dungeon crawlers.

refunded demon gaze when lancelorna got killed off

Japanese dungeon crawlers were never and will never be good. Grimrock was the only hope and no one has really picked up where they left off after they fucked off to make a subpar strategy rpg.

>>715233180
>being 15 time slower with no benefit
>and generic and ugly to look at
>better
stop worshiping your phone, rakeesh

>>715235805
>he doesn't know

>>715236092
oh god damn it i guess i have to wait for another sale

>>715199694 (OP)
By dropping it.
I realized that dungeon crawlers were just padded in length by combining decent dungeons with mediocre combat.

Nowadays I either play GOOD exploration/puzzle game OR a GOOD turn based RPG. Never again touching hybrid slop.

>>715199694 (OP)
Innovation. Dungeons need to be more interactive. Characters and combat need more unique features.

>>715236178
I'm just memeing, she is actually dead and all you can do is avenge her + collect her panties. But her apprentice (who is also a sexy redhead character following the same general aesthetic) shows up in the postgame/entire second half of the game in Demon Gaze for a pretty touching arc

>>715236570
man fuck you, anyway why isn't the second one on steam yet

>>715199694 (OP)
1. Remove 90% of dialog.
2. Make combat real time instead of turn based.
There you go.

>>715236080
NTA but you can play it on 3x speed.
>ugly
ok coombrain

>>715236749
>2. Make combat real time instead of turn based.
You want autobattlers?

>>715236798
You know, a turn based dungeon crawler with an auto battle system like Unicorn Overlord sounds pretty good.
You train your characters both stats wise and by modifying their AI.

>>715236798
Most DRPGs are autobattlers already, where you think of a game plan and try to execute it 99% of the fights, no matter what enemy's gimmick is. It's just not automated yet.

>>715199694 (OP)
>How do we save
Add parryslop.
Add NTR ending where the girl you're romancing the whole game goes to fuck someone else while you're forced to watch their happy family unable to kys.

>>715236639
Demon Gaze Extra was published by Clouded Leopard Entertainment and that remake was worked on by Dragami Games (who now have the rights to those as I understand it).
Demon Gaze 1 & 2 were developed by Kadokawa and Experience Inc, then published by NISA in the west. When Dragami got the rights NISA had to delist the western releases of the game for whatever legal reasons, there's no change to the Japanese release availability.
I don't know if Experience Inc/Kadokawa still own the actual IP though, hopefully they do because they promised me a Demon Gaze 3 and I can't die until I beat it.

>>715237120
>cucked by futa Flonne
Top based. Parryslop sounds lame though.

>>715199694 (OP)
You cant get by on generics you need to really lock onto what mechanics fit the atmosphere you're making.

>>715202024
Cant you just mod the pc version?

>>715231978
I accept your concession, anime slop slurper.

>>715231851
The one making the claim has the burden of proof. It's on (you) to prove that your original statement is true, not the one calling it out. Of course we both know you don't actually have any idea what these supposed anime dungeon crawlers are like, so you can't.

you play one youve played em all

>>715238013
>Of course we both know you don't actually have any idea what these supposed anime dungeon crawlers are like
That's because I don't play garbage games with anime on the cover.

>>715238142
Name one (1) good dungeon crawler that isn't already popular or a cult classic.

>>715238340
Grimrock 2?

>>715238340
You've never even heard of the GB Wiz Gaiden games.

>>715238142
>he didn't even play the game and judged it by the cover
>thinks his opinion matters
sad!

>>715238425
When there's anime on the cover, you literally can judge it as trash without engaging with it.

Any recent(As in last two years) Grimcock mods?
Monomyth when?
Neverlooted Dungeon when?
Sorceress when?
Achaelund(does that even count) when
EXAMINA 1.0 FUCKING WHEN

What do you think the peak of the genre is?

>>715238456
>admits he is just a shitposting child
yfw

>>715238557
Wizardry 3, specifically from the PS1 version.

>>715199694 (OP)
By asking for Legend of Grimrock 3.

>>715238409
Are there any real time first person dungeon crawlers like that game or Brandish that have a prettier art style?

>>715238552
>Sorceress when?
Same devs made FlyKnight which is more dungeon crawler than Sorceress.

>>715230590
okay, Werdna, don't act like Wizardry isn't just copypasted shit

>>715213357
English translation soon..
https://store.steampowered.com/app/3399400/Monochrome_Echoes__white/

>>715217615
It's not really a Kemco game. It was just the console ports or something like that that involved Kemco at all.

>>715241867
The Japanese copypasted from it but without ever understanding what made Wizardry good to begin with.

>>715217615
Kemco games are not even that bad if you're just looking for a casual jrpg or a unique attempt at a some gameplay systems, they actually implement a lot of interesting ideas that aren't tried anywhere else really despite their reputation. They're pretty fun, at least Antiqua Lost and Isekai Rondo were.

>>715229391
what about the games where the middle party slot is the one most likely to be attacked
or games with cover mechanics but aoe damage is dealt from left to right so back right slot is optimal since they if they die mid attack they blocked an additional attack before taking the hit actually aimed at the tank

>>715242880
or games where using abilities on a character in the 3rd slot is bugged and causes monsters to go ten times faster

>>715199694 (OP)
>AAAHHH MUH REVIEWS
>MUH SAAAAAAALES
Does /v/ even still care abiut the gameplay?

>>715219963
/thread

>>715236937
someone is already making it
it goes a step further and makes the exploration also dictated by programing ai for the party

>>715201904
try darkest dungeon

>>715236798
No I want Jagged Alliance but with fantasy guns and set inside goblin rapecaves and dwarven maze cities

>>715242880
>>715243491
I already said, in the left spot always.
>good luck charm > game mechanics
Simple as. I will always be protected.

You had me, I was interested, until I saw the price
80% off is a good discount, except when your base price is retarded. I'm not paying 8.99 for this man, try halving that and I'd have bought it.
I am begging devs to learn what their market competition ACTUALLY is instead of pretendint it's still the same as 20 years ago and clinging to that delusion. Your competition increases every year, because your competition is every game ever made, and they're all lowering the prices to keep competing.

>>715202267
>grimrock
it had a resurgance because it came out at a time when this genre was not being made as much
it was also mid, square dancing dogshit in these games is cancer, turn based blobbers are always better by every objective measurement, or even old games like warriors of the eternal sun where it wasn't turn based but you had zero ability to square dance and still had to sit there and take your hits and it was balanced around it
>grimrock 2
came out at a time when this game was being made more, and also grimrock 2 simply wasn't that good, both of these meant that people cared less about grimrock 2

>>715244390
>and also grimrock 2 simply wasn't that good
It's an objective improvement in every single way to Grimrock 1. Except Unarmed being neutered.

I want to play a dungeon crawler where resources actually matter.
Like I have a inventory limit, and I need to prepare accordingly with things like torches, foods, water, etc with the things I will use in battle, like potions, antidote.
And also have to empty out my inventory to carry the loots from monsters/treasure chest.

Any game like that?

>>715244712
That's Darkest Dungeon to a t.

Handholding with flonne.

>>715244451
>It's an objective improvement in every single way to Grimrock 1.
Grimrock wasn't that good though, that is the point. It doesn't matter how much you improve your sequel, it's still the same game just a little better. But the game was not good enough that "a little better" is meaningful enough. The foundation was not good enough to keep a large audience

>>715244787
That's good and all, I can't stomach other bullshit system in that game.

>>715244712
Darkest Dungeon
StoneShard

I know this isn't the answer you want, but w/e

>>715244863
>Grimrock wasn't that good though, that is the point
The point was so absurdly wrong it didn't need mentioning. Both Grimrocks are superb.

>>715244889
>I can't stomach other bullshit system in that game
Like what? If you haven't played the game then there's a very high chance you've been mislead by shitposters.

>>715199694 (OP)
Yall need to start doing whatever the opposite of review bombing is.

>>715199694 (OP)
they seem pretty low-budget and low-production-value

no-one is making a big effortful one

>>715245000
NTA but losing 10 hours of progress because the niggas on The Darkest Dungeon decided to double crit you plus dot sucks major ass.

>>715213821
If Square was going to train their interns by having them make a game, they could at least have the decency to release it for free. This should be like a minigame in a bigger game. No I didn't play it, I'm on /v/ what did you expect?

>>715244712
If you don't mind the items being gathered mid run only, you could give Monster Girl Manager a try. You basically spawn a group of monster girls in like Monster Rancher and then go through the dungeons picking up relics and consumables.
Or if you want to heavily stretch the definition you could include Mystery Dungeon games like Shiren or Genso Wanderer which are just exactly what you asked for in isometric form.

>>715245137
You legitimately cannot lose progress in DD1. Not only can you beat the game with level 1s and go to the Darkest Dungeon right from the get-go, dead characters can return from a Town Event.

>>715213821
I loved Dungeon Encounters. It's biggest problem is that it's really easy to skip 70%+ of the game. Traversal skills quickly get you new traversal skills and before you know it you're skipping 20+ floors in a go, avoiding all enemies, recruiting high level allies, finding high level gear, then beating the last boss.

>>715244957
>Both Grimrocks are superb.
Evidently not enough to keep any real audience, as was the complaint lmao.
On a list of blobbers, grimrock is very much near the bottom. It is worse than most modern ones, and it is certainly worse than most 30 year old ones. No reason to play it over basically any other game whatsoever, unless you simply must have square dancing and that's all you live for (which is basically 0 people)

>>715244919
>StoneShard
That looks nice.
What makes it to have mixed review?

>>715245323
Losing time to reobtain heroes/trinkets is losing progress. And when you can get fucked by rng at pretty much any point its no wonder people don't bother.

>>715245540
>It's biggest problem is that it's really easy to skip 70%+ of the game.
that's the whole point of it though. I don't think the devs intended anyone not to skip floors 40-90.

DO NOT give mediko a war hammer

>>715199694 (OP)
>How do we save the genre?
We don't. Grimrock 2 basically perfected the genre and nobody played it. The audience for the genre just isn't there, it's too niche.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rNbcEPdJEg

>>715246704
>that theme
Peak Conan.

>>715228226
As far as the Class of Heroes series goes, Class of Heroes 1 was pretty much Wizardry in an anime setting, with Class of Heroes 2 being much of the same thing but it starting to shift a bit away from the true Wizardry formula, but it wasn't received well because they also restricted classes to specific races (so you couldn't get a Fairy Dragoon, for example).

Class of Heroes 3 is when they really went full-in on its own thing with significantly more classes and schools that they belong to, a more proper story and the removal of the class-racial restrictions that they had in Class of Heroes 2. It was actually very well received by the Japanese audience (never came to the West until now), but the studio (or team? Or lead dev? Forgot which) decided to make Class of Heroes 3 the final of the series, stating something about wanting it to end the series at the height of its popularity instead of dragging it on. And so Class of Heroes 3 Remaster became the last game for the series.

As for something else related, though it also plays a bit more like the traditional Wizardry game (but anime), Operation Babel: New Tokyo Legacy is pretty decent. You can choose two portrait types from it - your typical modern anime portrait, or the original (but dated) model where the armour equipment you put on is reflected on the model itself as the original artist had drawn all of this stuff to go with it. In Japan the Operation Babel series is better known by 'Generation Xth' or something like that.

>>715228226
Are the sfx effects still localized trash like "kaboof"?

>>715228226
>screenshots show half the screen saying "KA-KLONG"
yep, wont buy this one either. remove this american comic shit or give the option for japanese sfx.

>>715246704
>perfected the genre
The first puzzle stopped me from playing the game.

>>715247760
What, the X marks the spot one?

>>715248019
No, worse.
This one

What is *the* DRPG to play with custom portraits?

>>715248686
Elminage Original

>>715199694 (OP)
Is this the thread

>>715251932
I throw a rock that drop on the pressure plate, but that doesn't work.
For some reason, a rock being on pressure plate that way doesn't activate it, but putting the rock on it does.
I lost interests after that.

>>715199694 (OP)
you dont
roguelikes (the real ones) are already dungeon crawlers but 1000x better

>>715202212
Any way to tell how much rent you need ahead of time? I get that it's there to keep you from just porting in and out to farm gathering points, but it's a bit of a pain not knowing whether or not it's "safe" to leave the dungeon.

>>715252162
You're just retarded. Throwing items do activate pressure plates. In this case you have to activate them in order so throwing an item at the second plate does nothing if you don't trigger the first one.

>>715238456
what a weird, fanatical statement.

>>715244827
Single best post in the whole thread

>>715253218
>You're just retarded.
I already told you, the very first tutorial puzzle stopped me from playing the game.

>>715252964
pretty sure its always a percent of your money

>>715199694 (OP)
my problem with dungeon crawlers is literally every game is based off the same system, no matter what company.
>swordsman class with rage attack that makes you take more damage
>archer class has focus status
>mage are just mages
>assassin class with hide sneak attack
its like play one, play them all.

>>715236757
how the fuck is you monotexture shit with generic unity asset "good looking"?

>>715254738
Because you are retarded, yes I know. I even explained to you why you were wrong.

I'm really not a fan of how most modern DRPG are 95% setup and 5% actually doing anything meaningful in combat.
The only games I was able to stomach this sort of approach was Labyrinth of Refrain.
I'm a huge fan of top down scavenging dungeon crawlers, massive fan of approaches like Doors of Trithius

But my eyes roll into the back of my head with party DRPGs where you spend the entire time minmaxing an action list that you spam in 99% of every fight.

>>715255152
>I even explained to you why you were wrong.
Except that you're wrong.
I would have pressed the left pressure plate already when I go the left to position myself to throw the rock at the 2nd pressure plate.
So you're just as retarded.

>>715199694 (OP)
Because they're hard. And the genre does not require "saving" aka becoming easily accessible slop

>>715255237
I wish they'd lean into it more. Trash fights should all autoresolve. Boss fights should have a planning phase at the start and then some chances to make important interventions later. There's a lot of combat stuff that you can bring in from autobattlers and party rng management stuff you can bring from roguelites that would fit really well into a dungeon crawler.

>>715199694 (OP)
>vr fad comes out
>shit is super immersive but makes people ill with non-teleporting motion
>happens to be a first person genre where you teleport from 10ft square to 10ft square
>nobody makes any VR dungeon crawlers other than a few indies
It's hard to truly describe how much I hate this industry using mere words.

>>715256395
Holy shit I didn't even consider this as a possibility. God fucking dammit. You have infected me with this.

I just started Strange Journey and I like how the main missions are short enough that you can play it for minutes at a time

>>715255025
Can you name the dungeon crawlers you played?

Lack of innovation, boring dungeon designs, death of actual handhelds like the DS and PSP etc. Most games show you A LOT of options at first but the game mechanics have the depth of a above ground pool, meanwhile you take a look at shit like Soul Hackers, Strange Journey, or you take a look at the dungeon design of EO, it's just a different breed.

I've been second guessing myself for almost 1 year now everytime i see Demon Gaze on sale cause it looks very boring, but i've been meaning to play it since it was only on the Vita.

>>715257265
>dungeon design of EO
>a different breed
lol. lmao.

This thread made me try Demon gaze again

>>715206034
If you hate galleria you're a midwit that never was actually invested in the series.

Don't worry guys, Ettrian Odyssey Next will save the genre. It's totally not dead

>>715258931
Me on the middle-right

>>715259514
Post bell.

?

>>715260087
>[Punch her]
That gives her a glass of punch, yeah?

>>715228801
No thanks, auto-battler should be quarantined to gachaslops

Post drpg infographic/charts!!!!!!
Also, play wizards and warriors instead of animu faggotry.

>>715255548
Bro if you can't figure out the tutorial puzzle at the beginning of the game you are the same level of retarded as IGN reviewers.

>>715202267
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2918410/Tower_of_Mask/

Been playing this one and it's been fun.

>>715255237
I'll only start to give a fuck about DRPG when:
>Every class has interaction with the map e.g. rogue can detect and disarm traps or pick locks, warrior can destroy breakable obstacles, priest can purify cursed obstacles, etc.
>Fatigue and hunger system, with camping, foraging, and cooking mechanics.
>Can customise party members' grunts, personality and battle shout-outs. Party members will banter with each other.
>Can target enemies' body parts during combat.
So far, all the existing DRPGs are just glorified corridor walkers with tacked-on menu simulator combat.

>did chronos before mars
while the 10 minutes i spent chipping away at her was not the most fun i've ever had, ignoring floor tile damage and then dunking on mars in like 3 turns convinced me this was the correct choice

>>715257265
>I've been second guessing myself for almost 1 year now everytime i see Demon Gaze on sale cause it looks very boring, but i've been meaning to play it since it was only on the Vita.
Its ok but doesn't sound like nothing you might be looking for. Its the one sub genre I don't think Japan puts much effort into because they know not many Japanese fans aren't looking for "more depth" and just want fan service tier girls. Kind of like a lot of their beat'em ups. A lot of modern dungeon crawlers from Japan put 100% of the focus is on the fanservice with gameplay 2nd.

Personally DG didn't "wow" me but I still enjoyed it, its not a game I'd say has a lot of depth to it.

>>715199694 (OP)
The negative reviews are from people who wouldn’t like these games unless you removed or changed everything that makes them what they are.

>>715262836
Or people tired of mediocre anime slop.

Played Star Crawlers on and off. It's pretty neat.

>>715262138
I prefer Chronos -> Hermes -> Mars so after [the event] I can drown the party fast for melancholy points.

>>715200726
grimrock 3 never
i wonder if fear&hunger counts as a dungeon crawler of sorts

>>715264638
>grimrock 3 never
Good, dancing games are not drpg's.

>>715265370
No one cares about your shit opinions.

>>715199694 (OP)
Don't play Experience games (except Undernauts and maybe Stranger of Sword City).

>>715266225
Grimrock fan.Fear and hunger fan.
And you dare talk about shit opinions.

>>715265370
Tranime dvd menu aren't DRPG

>>715266671
Yes, and?

Why does niche shit get such dedicated schizos

>>715267126
Niche stuff is the only place the schizos can voice their deranged opinions, On everything else, they are shunned and mocked.

>>715262019
literal terrible ideas
unless your party has room for one of every class, now your dungeon design necessitates returning with multiple parties to access what amounts to "only x can pass" signs everywhere
and if you don't put them everywhere with actual meaningful content behind them, it's not even a mechanic at all its just completely wasted
fatigue systems, literally every single time they're implemented, simply make you return to town more often when you otherwise don't need to. that's it. they make you leave and come back for no real reason. hunger systems are all solved by literally just buying 5000 stacks of food, it isn't a mechanic past the early stages of any game to ever exist.
you can already target enemy body parts in some games, what the fuck do you think attacking the bosses left arm or head is? what you want is an unreasonable system where you can target every single centimetre on every single enemy that, obviously, must have substantially different effects when you do so otherwise why make it at all.
that isn't gonna happen, you're gonna get to target like 3-5 parts, on some enemies that are big enough, because that's a reasonable amount of work.