>weapon is worse than stock but is fun

>>715477562 (OP)
i miss when it was viable

The Scout is what got me into TF2. FaN, Bonk and Sandman were a ton of fun even though I was always horrible with glass cannon characters and I can't aim or dodge to save my life. I miss when TF2 updates were like Christmas morning, just full of surprises and wonder

>>715477562 (OP)
i liked the guillotine sandman combo, but compfags had to ruin it

>>715478665
Yeah, did it get nerfed? I remember on 2fort I could shotty jump from the inside of the front in that one 2nd floor area by spawn. Last time I played it felt like I couldn't do it anymore. I would main this plus the bat with the ball and the lugermorph and it was ez GG, but the bat and shotty feel worse.

>>715477562 (OP)
Isnt this every weapon?

>>715478665
>indirectly nerfed because of the airblast nerf
>Calling card of gay transgender babies that are shit at vidya because muh dubble tap cheat
>Bonk basically fucking worthless too
>Sandman literally useless outside of VSH and even then it's barely useful

>>715477562 (OP)
It's either this or the opposite
>you now remember how OP Shortstop was on release and how you could have 150hp if you used the full milkman set (hat included goyim)

>>715477562 (OP)
>mfw waiting for people to come around the corner next to the pit on hightower

>>715479047
yeah it got dumpstered awhile ago, you can be right next to someone and it does fuck all for damage, only useful against someone on low HP and at that point why wouldn't you just use a pistol instead

>>715479159
>polycount sets are pay to win
Youtumor retard detected, they had crafting recipes day one. And a 150HP scout that does a max of 72 per shot is not OP

>>715478665
You can kill people with it seems pretty viable to me.
UNLIKE CERTAIN OTHER PIECE OF SHIT THE POMSON

>>715477562 (OP)
Soda Popper or bust

>>715479417
I don't think you remember how quicky you could fire off shots and reload the shortstop on release
>not pay to win
Sure, you could grind N hours to get however many refined needed to craft the Milkman, or you could just pay 12.99 or whatever the Mann Co hats cost

>>715479628
Perish nigga
You've already sealed your fate as a fraud
This isn't even getting into the fact the FaN wasn't shit at this point.

Debatably the worst minigun, but fuck does it look cool. I like the fire gimmick.

>>715479943
It's good if you have ANY pyros on your team since you're kinda walking around with a brass beast with a very insignificant downside (Felled enemy gamers drop ammo)

>guillotine-sandman combo nerf

it's FUCKING over........

>>715477562 (OP)
It's garbage but god damn is it fun mowing down a team of dipshits stacking pyros and niggerknights.

>>715479943
this shit is a godly weapon on tf2 zombie servers. any zombie spy trying to get close to you gets BTFO'd

>>715479478
>THE POMSON
The pomson is kino, just shoot and a chock point and watch your kd go up. Its a defensive weapon no a brawling one youre not going to slap it on your battle engie

>>715479047
i think you just forgot the nuances of FaN jumping over time because its retarded. shooting at a downward 45 degree angle gets you the most height, and you can get even more by shooting and jumping simultaneously instead of using it as a triple jump.

>>715479478
The Engineer does not need a weapon that both pierces and drains uber.

I'm still glad the FaN existed, as it lead to special powder in DRG.

>>715481180
You don't need to cry about a weapon that was gimped years ago, but here you are.

>>715483406
Projection is a symptom of butthurt.

>>715479334
>scout main trying to make other people not realize the glory of the FaN

>>715480794
>you can get even more by shooting and jumping simultaneously instead of using it as a triple jump.
What the fuck? Maybe I was doing that and forgot. I just remember it was the only way to triple jump until they added that one pistol.

>>715477562 (OP)
>>715478665
fan is good tho
>>715479334
trolling or noob call it

>>715479130
the double tap skiddie shit is indeed pathetic and gives the gun a bad rep, like when you see an engie with the widowmaker and a pocket medic you know he's doing shady shit. that's why i always save the second shot until they're actively in the air and looking at me. i like to see the heavy_pain_medium.wav in their eyes.

>>715477562 (OP)
isn't the soda popper the exact same thing but more damage + meter?

FAN jumping on this map from one convoy to the other was so much fun

>>715484156
no, soda popper is way less damage, it's not bad though

>>715477562 (OP)
>Portugal
>Buena Garantia
lol

>>715484156
>>715484325
it has more bullets, but each shot does a bit less meaning unless you shove the gun up someones asshole the popper does more

>>715480080
I really wish they kept it but also kept the nerf to the sandman. Have it be this niche combo weapon that only really works with the cleaver.

>>715483569
Said the guy somehow still mad about the pomson in fucking 2025

>>715485374
They should have removed the 'crit on stun' mechanic which was broken and retarded the cleaver is still ridiculous when used with teh wrap assassin and the sand man is now just straight up worthless.

>>715479943
Is there any weapon that requires another player to use its upside that’s actually good?

>>715486137
There's the sun-on-a-stick. Half Zat being a OHKO duel when the enemy has one is an honorable mention though.

>>715486137
The medigun :)

>>715479628
I still don’t get what the fuck the shove is even used for. Can you shove Ubers with it?

>>715477562 (OP)
TF2 has too many weapons

>>715488745
And most of them are unusable garbage.

>>715489045
And half the players on each team still use them. Turns every match into an unfocused slog.

>>715489293
>NOOOOO YOU MUST USE ONLY VIABLE WEAPONS (STOCK) AND PLAY THE GAME WITH A PROPER TEAM COMP!!!
kill yourself stupid fucking nigger.

>>715489503
Nigger it's not about what's "viable" and tryhard, it's about game design. TF2 is designed around classes fulfilling specific roles and most of the early weapons added were designed with the intent of players specializing in that role (Direct hit for precision targeting, Kritzkrieg trading invuln for raw power, FAN to instantly reposition/disorient a priority target or force them off an objective, Scottish Resistance for larger scale base defense, etc).
They weren't all winners but the design was clear and with a smaller weapon pool the game was still tight and focused on class/based combat. Now the developers have to figure out how to balance 500 weapons (most of which didn't have a place in the sandbox to begin with) so you don't have everybody running around with useless meme loadouts and so players don't have to juggle a million variables in a single match. And the new balancing decisions seem to be focused more around deathmatch than teamplay. They turned what was once a class-based shooter into what is essentially a mini hero shooter where players change loadouts every 2 minutes in order to hard counter some other dickheads loadout while players try to score solo kills with their retarded combo loadouts.

>>715490834
tf2 has literally always been a deathmatch game, og interviews with robin walker talk about how they designed every class to have selfish goals that combined lead to a unifed team effort. engineer builds sentry to kill people, he builds dispenser to survive standing behind it repairing, he builds teleport to get back to his shit if he gets sniped, medic heals people so he can become invincible which is cool, everyone else is just kill man with gun/bomb/knife/fire

>>715489045
If they're not garbage, they're so integral to being a viable player it makes you wonder why valve hasn't just made them defaults by now. (Ubersaw, Crusader's crossbow, Sandvich)

>>715490834
Fuck your game design

>Gets nerfed into uselessness because a youtuber misinterpreted what was going on at max speed

>>715492007
why didn't valve say he was wrong and then not nerf the bfb?

>>715492086
More-or-less every nerf between Gun Mettle and Jungle Inferno was done to appease compfags. Didn't even work because BASE Jumper is still banned in formats despite being dogshit.

>>715484354
yeah, someone at valve is retarded, they don't even have that type of bullfighter, it's a different type there

>>715492178
all right but how does that apply to the misinfo video about the bfb?

>>715490834
I LOATHE retards like you

>>715492007
This one is so close to fine it hurts.

>>715492007
It should do less dmg, be more accurate and boost should only drain by using jumps.

>>715490834
Tftroons hate this post but I agree with you, airblast and letting engineer move buildings were mistakes as well. TF2 was a genuine 10/10 on release and each new addition only made it worse, tftroons don't know what game design is because their taste is shit

>>715477562 (OP)
>we balanced the game by making everything fun or unique deal significantly less damage
TF2 devs and the competitive community are such fags

stock have always been the baseline with no downsides but slightly weaker than everything else. just like literally any other game does it
now if you want to try anything different you are actively punished for it with trash damage

>>715492379
>lets add a million random guns to our class-based game this way everybody has no role
Brilliant game design

>>715492746
>I like having to self-destruct all my buildings and starting the base over if I want to move up 30 feet
You are genuinely insane.

>>715492623
You basically described how it was at launch, except it had a mag size of 6 and the starting and capped speed were lower and higher respectively.
I loved this version because I was basically playing Doom once I got up to speed.

>>715492746
>TF2 was a genuine 10/10 on release

>backstabs have a delay
>engineer can't move buildings or upgrade dispensers/teleports

lol no

>>715492887
>I was basically playing Doom once I got up to speed
I felt the same, which is why I also want the no fall dmg thing from the pretty boy's pocket pistol back

>>715492925
Those are what made it a 10/10, though, it's called "balance"

>>715477562 (OP)
>TFW I mailed one of the first fake ads to Valve HQ as a joke
>TFW they just sent me a little metal Engineer keychain

I'm still sad the chain broke and he got lost. It was one of my faves.

>>715492007
I don't know if this would be a good idea but what would happen if you changed the lose boost on double jump to being unable to fucking come to a stop instantly with the weapon and if you bump into anything you fucking lose all of your boost.

>>715493043
You're a poser who probably started playing in 2017 lol.
Peak TF2 balance was pre MyM update.

>>715492746
I don't know how you could ever think those are problems or mistakes made by the team.

>>715479046
Down the street, not across, children

>>715479046
compfags weren't even taken into account. it was taken down because it sucked shit for casuals to be stunned and then die

>>715493318
Hardstun is absolutely fucking OP. Fun but it had that nerf coming.

>>715493140
Say whatever you want, I know what I like. I'm willing to concede building moving, airblasts and delayed backstabs but having alternatives to stock is a fucking crime, and the worst part is that stock-only servers don't fucking exist because tftroons are huge fucking faggots and "love" the game so much they despise the God-given balance it released with. I'm glad I finally uninstalled this garbage, fucking waste of time

>spend years tweaking the game trying to disincentivize W+M1 and make pyro more complex
>"eh, fuck it"

>>715493760
I miss the pre-nerf phlog.
forcing casuals back into their spawn on 2fort used to cause amazing amounts of salt.

>>715493760
Honestly, it is fine. It's things surrounding it(able to build oomph without using the weapon, getting uber, taunt canceling) that make it a pain.

>>715488745
The only correct opinion in this thread.

Team Fortress 2 died when class kits were introduced. All the game needed was bug fixes and new maps. That's it. The balance was near perfect and then Valve RUINED it.

>>715493426
most nerfs i can recall were shutting down some cancerous shit
it was absolutely not okay for spy to kill you from across the map or for demoman to oneshot light classes at his weakest range

>>715494160
The only weapon which I can say has fucked balance beyond repair is the Dead Ringer. I remember the day when the item server went down for everyone, and I was so damn happy to be killing Spies knowing they couldn't use their crutch.

>>715493760
everything reminds me of him

>>715494160
you are correct

For me its the shortstop

>>715477562 (OP)
this shit ruined the game when it came out

>>715494358
The caber one-shotting 125hp classes was fine, it just shouldn't have one-shot medics.
I can't bring myself to care about the Ambassador nerf while the Diamondback still exists.

>>715477562 (OP)
>op sucks my cock

>>715488383
They put it in to fuck with me whenever I accidentally click m2 and miss my shots

>Projectile hitbox is consistently, without failure half the size you think it is no matter how much time you spend using it

>>715495019
>spoiler
if anything you should care more about the ambassador because the diamondback is allowed to exist, its less fun, less skill, and is one of the many cancerous modern day items that punish (You) for having noob teammates

so what do i miss on now by not buying $5 of cosmetics? i know f2ps can now chat

>>715492379
The hard counter to a sniper is another sniper

>>715478843
For me it was spy

>>715496854
Not even the worst aspect of the gun, it's the retarded "you must hit the fireball's center for the extra damage" nerf

>>715478665

I miss the old Baby Face Blaster. Those were some good times.

>>715497513
Yearly nametag,description tag, and random paint can

>>715479046
to be fair, it was a heavy bullying combo

>you will never go back to 2007 TF2 and playing on your favorite server with the regulars

I want it so bad it hurts.

>>715499359
Do F2Ps at least get the yearly backpack expander? 50 slots isn't nearly enough for every unique weapon, but 150 would be.

>>715479943
>Jumps over the flames and backstabs you anyway
LAUGHS IN FRENCH!

I like the stock pistol

>>715500673
For me? It's the Winger.

>>715499578
Toxotransmosis moment.

>>715489503
I'm really tired of having to play soldier or demo every fucking game because the retards on my team are all playing conch box or demoknight while there's an engie and heavy turtling on the point.

>>715493760
>>spend years tweaking the game trying to disincentivize W+M1 and make pyro more complex
they threw that shit out the window years ago when they kneecapped the degreaser and axtinguisher

>>715501559
It also makes people not want to play medic because what's the fucking point if the people you're working your ass off to keep alive can't actually kill anything. Maybe that's why battle medic is so popular, which is great because I'm sure being sniped by a medic is something everyone wants to worry about.

>>715496854
center the projectile and remove the "center of the projectile" mechanic and the weapon would be god tier, optionally reduce the size of the fireball since when they nerfed it's hitbox way back when they didn't actually reduce the visual size. oh, and remove the fucking flashbang bullshit

>>715489045
No you're just shit. Most players have like 5k hours so we can get kills with "off meta"

One of the biggest strengths of tf2 is not needing to be a tryhard faggot like in other 6v6 compslop games.

>>715502709
>center the projectile and remove the "center of the projectile" mechanic and the weapon would be god tier
it would still be ass until they unnerf the airblast.
pyro needs airblast to not get farmed by soldiers and demos.

>>715502905
Okay moron, get out there and show me a decent kill streak with something like the bison.

>>715479046
>scout is designed to be weak at range
>give him a weapon combo that allows him to 2 hit a soldier from across the map
yeah man those dirty compfags

getting high as shit and playing fat scout on 24/7 2fort servers

>>715500673
I love this scrawny bitch.

>>715506769
I wish it were properly animated, Lugers are sexy.

>>715492007
I still use this because it's fun and stock scout players are faggots

>>715498394
I'd say the worst part about the dragonsfury is that you have to flashbang yourself every time you wanna fire it.

What's with TF2 threads having a noticeable concentration of mouth-breathing retards who act like they're game balance experts while spouting off opinions worse than someone who doesn't even play the game

>>715477562 (OP)
i miss when the pretty boy's pocket pistol gave scout 140 hp and fall damage immunity

Does the bounding box headshot jank make it unfair?

>>715510953
The huntsman gets to be jank because it will never outperform the stock sniper rifle.

>>715490834
>>715488745
>>715489045
This reminded me that technically Deadlock has a loadout system in the code, it's just inaccessible. Makes me wonder how the FUCK that would work in a Dota clone with weapons modified by items

You can tell when someone isn't a real tf2 OG when they care about balance when TF2 is fun because it's broken

>>715477562 (OP)
I'm gonna say it
The Ambassador should have never been nerfed because it was quite literally keeping every sniperfag in check. Without it snipers can roam free with very little to contest them

>>715511376
Yeah but we don't live in fun times we live in fully optimized minmaxed silent aimbot interp rapist times

>>715511489
i agree but it also gave spies just a little too much power and turned them into mini snipers who could instakill people from any distance on a whim

>>715511489
I hate the Ambassador nerf too, but regardless, Razorback and Danger Shield still exist as the middle fingers to Sniper's counters

>>715477562 (OP)
>turns your double jump into a sextuple jump for a short period
Fun as hell. Terrible gun though

>>715477562 (OP)
>turns your double jump into a sextuple jump for a short period
Fun as hell. Terrible gun though

>>715499578
None of you faggots who ever say this ever actually played back then or had servers full of people.
You will always be a fag nobody likes who started playing after the f2p update.

>>715511767
Remember when this retarded piece of shit used to give you mini-crits just for moving like any other character does

>>715511489
Wow you mean the SPY gun that was added in the SNIPER VS SPY UPDATE functioned for dealing with the SNIPER?
Sorry, I think we need to consult the game balance experts that only play the game with 4 out of the 9 classes on half empty servers.

>>715511767
>Terrible gun though
Two shots at point-blank range, without the FaN's knockback disrupting your aim, is insanely strong. Even better if you mark with the Fan o War before shooting.

>>715511489
I don't think it was that unbalanced, but I'm against it for class identity reasons. It's like giving sniper a secondary that turns him invisible under certain conditions

>>715511376
When the backburner was op as hell

When newfags thought i was hacking because the soldier update had just come out and the direct hit was going crazy

And of course, the sandman just being a straight upgrade over the regular bat

Comfy days

>>715511996
>Getting juggled to death by every blast jumper and losing most of your ability to dodge hitscan
>OP

>>715502957
>airblast
I think they should only make it so that firing a shot doesn't reset the airblast cooldown.

I miss pre-hat-era TF2. Back when scout was the meme melee bonk man and Demoman was strictly grenadier.

>>715513682
Remember you could quick switch weapons just after emoting to eat your minigun as a heavy etc?

>>715477562 (OP)
>First time learning of the Advanced FaN jump techniques
It was like opening my eyes for the very first time

>>715479943
there's only one barrel though

>>715500673
Should Engi be allowed to use Scout's pistols?
>extra jump height for sneaky sentry spots
>heal on damage for dedicated Battle Engi loadouts
He only has the fucking Wrangler cmon VALVe

Post 'em

>>715515872
Winger would be relatively harmless, Pocket Pistol with 200 reserve bullets would be cancer.

>>715492007
none of the versions of baby face blaster were ever good
removing movement from scout is and will always be retarded

TF2 is proof that you must never listen to compniggers when balancing a game.

>>715515872
yes
but also give widowmaker to heavy

>>715515921
"Didn't start playing until after F2P," my ass.

>>715488745
TF2 has not enough weapons.

>>715500673
>>715500754
I go back and forth between these two. I like to run around and pepper people with chip damage from afar. I'm not really doing much to them health-wise, but it's fun watching them get mad and breaking rank just to come chase me.

>>715493140
NTA, but that anon is spot on. You have zero clue what you're talking about. You probably get your opinions about the game from reddit

>>715492379
>muh demo and soldier have no counters
>what are scout and pyro

>>715511489
I think doing it only on dropping disguise or cloak would make it still counter sniper without turning it into the fiendish thing people evidently complained about

>>715478665
Wait....so it's not just me? I remember pubstomping with that back in 2013 as it kills in two hit and now I can't do that shit anymore. Even when I caught a p2w bottom scorer offguard it barely does any damage. Same with backburner, that shit was a legit pubstomper with correct map knowledge and now I can't even crit a heavy even when I was directly behind his back.

>>715480085
Don't forget scunts and trolldiers.

>>715511489
Honestly they should give it a damage buff against sniper only. If sniper can have an item that only works against spy. Spy should've an item that only works again sniper.

>weapon is better than stock and is fun

>>715492007
Just increase the damage need to fill the speed boost to 150 hp, and the damage received to fully go down to 75 hp instead of 25. It would be perfect.

>>715479047
>right next to someone
>fuck all for damage
Try aiming.

>>715480085
I actually like use it as some kind of support weapon because of the slow

Tf2 needs more weapons, fuck the niggers who think otherwise. Making fun loadouts is what elevates this game above the dull "hero shooters" of today like Overwatch.

>>715517875
Nice google image retard lol
even if it were real it bear no weight on this discussion.
TF2 on release wasn't balanced perfectly and a lot of classes lacked pivotal gameplay features.
Stupid fucking nigger

>>715511767
>Terrible gun though
>*scout's only primary that is as good as stock*

>>715480085
>people hate this weapon and complain about people using it, but somehow mindfuck themselves into thinking it's bad
Weapon that restricts enemy movement on a class that benefits from precise tracking is unsurprisingly effective.
The whole "you can avoid it by running in a straight line and mashing AD while not jumping" is such cope, it just makes you an easy target than can't defend himself.

>>715511489
>How do we let Spies kill Snipers more effectively?
>I know! Give him a sniper rifle!
It was a fucking retarded idea to begin with.

>>715514335
>shotgun taunt
>switch to minigun
>ALL OF YOU ARE-
>VERY BAD

>>715511489
All Spy revolvers should minicrit on headshot (except the diamondback)

>>715477562 (OP)
Stock scatter is just insanely broken.
It deals roughly the same single target dps as a rocket launcher 40-103 depending on where you’re firing in its effective range but hitscan, zero self splash damage, and two more shots

>>715525127
Also its on scout, the objectively 2nd best direct combat class in the game
Demo is better

>>715525127
>Soldier main not calling every other class broken challenge [impossible]

>>715525296
Soldier is ass and feels very weak when you play against good scouts especially when they made every medi gun give the old quickfix only speedboost
>old comp fag roamer main
Just stop being shit rockets are easy to dodge and solider needs to use half of his ammo just to move around at a decent speed
Even in highlander which has le scout counters because pubtards think tf2 has hard counters scout on average deals more dps and gets more kills than solly only bested by demo and sniper

>>715525639
The evolution of the comp meta in all formats has been just build uber than pop on a scout so he can run all the way up and 2 shot the enemy medic and demo.
Pocket soldiers don’t even exist anymore outside of the rollout to mid, its just another distraction bomber for the real classes scout and demo to deal damage

>>715511489
What if I want to use it because it looks hot

>>715479478
>>715481180
>>715483569
>>715483406
>>715485387

this is why i hud_saytext 0 when i play
>having conversation
>share opinion on something
>"WELL UR OPINIONS WRONG AND GAY"
>try to address retards saying this in any capacity
>"CRYYYY UR MAD LMAO"
you faggots are insufferable to talk to and im glad youll never leave your faggot containment game.

>>715525639
My man if you're having so much trouble with scouts you literally have a weapon that oneshots them, and you're still gonna two shot them with any other rocket launcher anyways. Every other class also has counters, this isn't a Soldier thing. Fucking Pyro is built around shutting down Spies.
Also highlander is the onlid valid competitive mode, idc that making a team of 9 is hard. A competitive gamemode where only 4.5 of the 9 classes are worth using is pure retardation

>>715526459
You’re bad at the game, scout is objectively stronger than solider and by quite a lot. Ask anyone actually good instead of sub human 24/7 upward fags that can’t dodge rockets. i don’t really know what else to say.
Go practice your aim a bit on scout, in like 5 months come back and with a straight face tell me the rocket launcher is good.

>>715477562 (OP)
I don't know if I wanted them to still update weapons anyway, considering they nerfed absolutely everything, except Soldier of course, who just got buffs.
>The Atomizer gives Scout the ability to triple jump? That's OP, better give Scout -100% run speed on equip and -120 max HP while making every damage source home on him
>Jarate can deal mini-crits? Obviously this is too OP, Sniper now takes 100% more damage while carrying the bottle and also can no longer headshot and everytime he fires he deal 300% self-damage.
>Soldier rocket launcher doesn't kill an ubered Heavy in one-shot? Obviously this need a buff, give him 300 extra HP, 500HP heal on hit, +150% ammo, ignore uber and guaranteed crits if it hits an enemy. Of course let's balance this by giving the weapon No Random Critical Hit :)

>>715526852
Yeah because solly is mediocre and you realize that when you can actually aim and abuse how broken hitscan and decent movement speed is.
6s only uses 2 of them because honestly people like the class and 5cp is designed with speed in mind which solider is good enough at with gunboats. If the gamemode changed or money was suddenly on the line i can assure you he wouldn’t be played
Scout and sniper gets nerfs because they are broken powerful when you can actually aim, im sorry valve who doesn’t even play tf2 have more gamesense than you

>>715523075
It's bad because it does barely any damage so even if you're restricting movement, you're not going to get any kills unless the enemy is just mindlessly holding w towards you like specific classes or Scouts who think they're the hottest shit since sliced bread. It is objectively a shitty weapon but it absolutely has utility still despite that.

>>715526678
How the fuck do you miss a direct hit rocket from close range? These things travel at the speed of sound. Of course Scout is broken in your piece of shit gamemode (no offense) because its two best counters - heavy and engineer - are dogshit on koth and don't work well on a limited team size.
And yeah the rocket launcher IS good, great even, amazing damage output that can twoshot any squishy while also giving you the best mobility in the game, idk what else to say.

>>715527158
You’re bad, go play against actual scout mains that guarantee have 185 hp because scout is above solly on heal priority in modern day play.

>>715527158
And i said koth instead of 5cp lel mb

>>715526113
Ok.

>>715526113
The Pomson should not be deprived of piercing for uber and cloak drain and in fact I would trade piercing for a faster projectile with higher damage

>>715527158
The Scout can go several degrees within your FoV while he is at close range.

>>715527236
Also these scout mains don’t miss, they will delete you in 1-2 sec flat pounding 80 damage on average while they abuse a prop and you’re slow ass rockets to take zero damage possible. If they catch you on some parts of any map in the game you literally can’t fight them. They just need one prop or a little bit of elevation to negate all splash and again they have hitscan. You can’t dodge they can dodge your damage
And its funny you brought up koth because in comp 6s koth one of your solly swaps to sniper half of the time because the class sucks ass and you don’t give up two scouts in modern comp

>>715527236
>no counter argument
Again, Scout gets hard countered by Heavies and Engies in normal gamemodes. Not my fault 6v6 is built in a way that makes Scout OP

>class is stuck to short range and easily avoidable projectiles
>afterburn are easily countered if you aren't on the brink of death
>airblast is expensive and easily work against its user
>keep getting nerfed to oblivion for 10 years
>outmatched by a texan non-combat class because a shotgun kill faster than the flamethrower
>still causes an insane amount of seething in the community because it's full of shitters
Why is Pyro such an uberchad?

>>715527653
retardo-kun, Pyro has a shotgun as well...

>>715527653
Meds love the phlog

>>715527521
Scout isn’t even countered by those in highlander lol. Again the class fucking tops dos and kills only bested by snoper and demo in hl.
Everytime you fucks talk about balance it just shows how awful /v/ is at tf2.
Learn to aim already its been like 18 years.
And lol heavy does not remotely counter scout, a good scout mulches heavy and abuses the shit out of them

>>715527709
Yeah, and shotgun vs shotgun fights are supposed to be a last resort, not the main source of damage for a combat class (beside Scout, but he basically have a better Shotgun).

>>715527743
A good Heavy mows down a Scout in half a second, what the fuck are you even talking about lmao. Ofc you didn't even bother bringing up engineer

And its funny you brought up Highlander because it shows you have no idea wtf you’re talking about.
Common highlander gameplay is medic tanks sniper and demo hoping they get a big pick usually their sniper med or demo. If they get a pick you peak and try to bully them out of the choke while pyro and heavy protects medic until you’re close to uber which than on offense you sack your spy and solider who pretty much don’t really matter most of the game on the sentry so the real star scout can be ubered in to kill enemy med if they don’t have or kill everyone else if they do. If your worthless soilder and spy couldn’t get the sentry and you need to go now you instead uber demo.
If on defense you uber pyro or scout to either airblast their uber or run down whoever isn’t ubered.
Engi pushes cart or puts sentry in sentry spot
That is standard highlander.
Its very formulaic and cancerous usually
>t. I also managed and ran a highlander team for a few seasons

>>715528418
I maincalled as highlander demo and i could really care less where my solider was 95% of the time.
Its actually crazy he's like the only class you just forgot exists in the mode at top level. especially on defense which than hes just glorified flank spammer even spy has more potential in highlander when chaos is happening.
This so called overpowered class best attribute is being a distraction so real classes can kill people easier haha

>>715528418
Wow, so every class has a role they must complete and Scout is reliant on them instead of doing whatever the fuck he wants? Crazy

>>715527709
Holy shit Pyro just went from a short range shitter to a barely medium one. Retard.

>>715529074
*make you piss and shit yourself with rage by spamming Scorch Shot across the map*

>>715528883
He still deathmatches like a monster when its not time for ubers but notice how the one job solider is just a bonus for the team and doesn’t really matter.
Why are you arguing with me, you clearly have no idea how the game plays when everyone is actually good. Im glad you never experienced playing against good scouts.
Its fucking miserable, the class is utterly broken when you don’t miss and have some movement skill to abuse terrain and props

The nerfs that happened in TF2 years ago made me swear off multiplayer games forever.
Some fucking crybaby will always ruin the game with a slew of nerfs.


Any game that focuses on competitive fairness is doomed to be updated to death trying to play an unwinnable game of Cat & Mouse with shitty retards that are borderline non-functional.

Any game that requires constant outside human input to be playable is doomed anyway. I pity anyone unable to free themselves from multiplayer slop. It's bottom of the barrel use of the medium and is always bad every time.

>>715522778
>you're a poser who started late
>gets btfo
>uhhh fake image
>and if it was real, it doesn't even matter!
Post hand or you're brown.

>>715529239
Posting some image you google doesn't validate your brown opinion Pablo

>>715529228
Please none of you fags were even good enough to abuse broken weapons

>>715529239
>Post hand or brown

Only respond to posts like this if they post their hand first.

>>715529172
I don't play sniper.

>>715529172
Showing yourself over and over to spam 30-45 damage projectiles when sniper can insta one shot you accross the map with hitscan

>>715529346
Shut up, niggerfaggot vermin. You are a sub-human if you play multiplayer games.
I want all of you dead for ruining video games with your 50 billion copycats of Counter Strike.

Multiplayerfags are bacterial colonies posing as humans. They are parasitic and destructive at best.

>>715529535
What else am i

>>715494358
>spy
You actually still had to aim to kill across the map.
>demo
because they had that retarded random damage thing that turned 120 sentry busters into 125 scout instakills

>>715529410
Good.
>>715529467
Well it's enough to make many of said snipers foam at the mouth. Pyro does have just enough health to survive a quickscope headshot/fully charged bodyshot

Okay, how would you balance Scout in comp while still making him a fun class in casual play?

>>715530728
I don't know why you would NEED to balance Scout at all for comp. I don't know why that changing Scout in casual would effect comp by extension. Scout's base kit will always remain the same and comp does their own form of balancing regardless of what Valve would ever do in the form of banlists.

>>715478665
>viable
Kill self.

>>715480080
>>715485374
They should have made the cleaver mini crit bleeding players had given the sandman something like a speed boost on hit. That way the cleaver combo could live on in the wrap assassin and the sandman would still be usable without being annoying

>>715530728
You don't need to, he's balanced by the fact he have very low HP, making him very poor in direct combat and relying almost exclusively on flanking and picking targets.

>>715511489
I never used it prenerf because I can't aim for shit, most of the time used stock revolver but I will never understand the nerf.

>>715477562 (OP)
mine is still custom named to Little Girl Panties all of these years later

>>715531293
Because playing against a good spy that consistently dinks you for 102 damage and then dead rings away when you get close is even more annoying than a sniper. I at least get to kill the sniper when I catch him.

>>715493760
the only reason the phlog is annoying is because the scorch shot makes it real easy to charge the omph

overhated

For me it's the quickie bomb launcher + iron bomber

>>715532682
this thing was completely fine once they removed the damage fluctuation shit that would cause it to instakill scunts, but then they had to nerf it more AND ruin the fucking design of the weapon by giving it 3 grenades.

>>715515921
at work, cant snag the screenshot but 2013 in I believe september

>>715532682
>>715532978
why do people still complain when I use it?

>>715480085
The Natascha I generally good support weapon and bullying scunts is funny but besides that man it just sucks. It slows down you it slows down the enemy and it doesn’t even feel reward to get kills with it. Hell its model is just stock with some added bits to it.

>>715494160
incorrect, new weapons added new dynamics to the game to counter other classes. Learning how to use a new weapon keeps the game fresh and fun.

>>715494160
>the balance was near perfect
>6 grenades, 40 reserve ammo, and rollers do full damage on touch. stickies with higher splash radius and damage, cannot be destroyed by hitscan, and a crit rate more than double what it is now
>rifle can headshot from the hip
>40 rockets in reserve
>backstabs that require half a second to swing, backstab detection a complete mess, invis watch with no cloak regen
>heavy with spinup time that rivals the current day brass beast
>pyro
>level 1 dispensers and teleporters only, cannot move buildings
let's not kid ourselves, TF2 was a fucking mess on release, but damn was it still rock solid.
the only class that arguably was perfect was Scout, the only issue stock scout has ever had was an exploit that let you fire the pistol faster than intended. They've never buffed or nerfed scout directly, and they've always misjudged just how much of a monster he is when in the hands of a good player (hence why almost every single one of his alternate weapons have been nerfed. they designed for casuals and didn't remember that good players exist in pubs too)

>>715525639
master the fucking shotgun pussy, probably the best weapon in the game.

>>715527653
there are no weak classes for good players.

>>715534541
holy shit lol. that sounds awful. Kinda glad I started later

>>715480085
I miss when you could put people to a dead stop from a mile away

>>715532978
3 grenades is more valuable to have
2 grenades with more damage doesn't actually break important damage thresholds unless you're looking to secure chargin targe kills for some reason. you're shit out of luck if you have to deal with a single heavy, anything overhealed other than light classes, and more than 1 enemy at a time. the amount of time you lose reloading made the weapon really bad, the only reason people remember it is because random damage spread let you 1-shot scouts before they disabled that mechanic by default.
Even doing something drastic like making it reload both pipes at once like the FaN wouldn't make up for the fact that the weapon struggled to actually secure kills on things that weren't already going to die to stock pipes.

>Pyro
>Rainblower, , thruster, Hot Hand(with a kill kit)
Yep, it's MvM time

>>715533948
>with some added bits
I thought the only difference was the black barrel

Post deathcams

>>715480085
*spams A&D in your path*

>weapon is hated because its annoying/op
>literally nobody uses it

>>715537969
every single phlog pyro uses it, without fail.

>in COMP...
opinion discarded

>>715479130
Bonk is still the only way for scout to not eat shit in most early maps but now it really only works in servers full of retards (which are the ones voting those early maps in the first place)

>>715537263
oh no anyway

>>715537969
Other then the man melter I see all flare guns fairly common with scorch and normal flare gun being the most common

>>715480085
pre-nerf Natascha pretty much hard countered half the classes in the game. Might have been more busted than original wrangler

>>715537969
It's great for faggot snipers and applying afterburn to groups, not so great at actually killing people who aren't already about to die.
I feel like this is one of those weapons that falls off a cliff if the enemy team is at least decent.

>>715538995
>>715537969
It's great for pre-igniting people and setting them up for the dragon's fury, and of course pissing off snipers and making them change to the DDS.

>>715502957
it would be way too strong without the airblast penalty, it does so much damage if you land your shots, having non-cucked airblast on top of it would completely invalidate all of the other flame throwers

>>715537969
it's great for hitting people coming out of spawn and making them go back to the resupply locker

>>715537969
I like to spam the Scorch Shot until someone starts bitching then swap to the Flare Gun and tunnel-vision delete them over and over.

>>715539835
Nice, I really hate when people bitch about others loudouts. At least in casual or non-comp community servers

>>715539534
>it does so much damage if you land your shots
it's still on a class with dogshit mobility with limited range and doing damage in a line is worse than a splash radius/cone
pyro is the second worst class. valve needs to throw him a bone. if you have to nerf it in some way then make it less effective at juggling players but keep reflects as is.
buffs in exchange for having to actually aim for once is a fair tradeoff.

Love using this thing but I do feel bad for the enemy team sometimes. Though when they bitch real hard I make sure if they end up on my team next round not to heal em

>>715540145
it's not that hard to aim though, especially if they removed the center of the projectile mechanic. I guess it's hard to aim compared to just using the flame thrower but it's still pretty braindead easy

>>715540250
it's just not engaging to fight against
many classes don't have a second damage type, as far as they're concerned you just have 4 ubers and making you panic pop doesn't even buy them extra time.
not like melee is a reliable counter to it, no one is going to drop what they're doing to slap your ass unless they were already melee focused: demoknight, spy, troldier. No one else is dumb enough to try to walk past your pocket to do that.

>>715540357
>it's not that hard to aim though
it is compared to the flamethrower
>but it's still pretty braindead easy
most weapons in tf2 do not require that much aim

I miss old TF2 so much, bros...

>>715540250
I only pull this out when there are multiple good snipers on the enemy team or we're getting rolled. Vacc is pure cancer to play against.

>>715540436
I get that, the only real counter is team coordination. Which is rare, though I did see the other day. I was mvping with the vac and the enemy team had a direct hit solider who was working with a heavy to target me.
Thing is while it isnt engaging to fight against its really engaging to use. Far more then any other medi gun. I want it to get nerfed so I feel more compelled to use it without it shutting down the other team

>>715479047
you need to aim at a 45 deg angle not looking straight down for full jump height

>Sandman/cleaver combo is still nerfed
And I'm still mad. It was genuinely hilarious when I managed to take someone out with it.

>>715479943
i miss when i first started playing tf2 and picked guns based on how they looked, not stats

>*shoves u*
how do you respond without sounding mad?

>>715488745
instead of adding classes, the add guns. Simple and keeps the game fresh

>>715541245

>>715541245
Scouts 2nd best primary

>>715477562 (OP)
Until all of the tranny comp weapon changes forced into TF2 are removed I'm not coming back.

>>715541245
I love that little gun

>>715478665
>better triple jump than the atomizer
>can double tap most classes
>i miss when it was viable
skill issue

>>715536317

Today a phlog pyro with a pocket vaccinator criticized MY playstyle for being cheap

>>715543225
>triple jump uses half ur clip
>reload time is ass
>weeeee the enemy is flying away, hope you have a pistol because ur shots wont connect otherwise
any kill the force of nature gets the scatter gun does better. It isnt unusable but it is a handycap. It get cool ragdolls though

>>715541245
I like this thing a lot, but when I see it I automatically assume I can get in the scouts face with no repercussions ;(

>clueless CS:GO dev working on TF2 after the old guard left
>sees the righteous bison hitting the same enemy multiple times
>hmm, this must be a bug
>"fixes" the "issue"
>weapon is now absolute dogshit
>will forever remain this way now

>>715537263
this only works on people that aren't good at aiming with heavy.

>>715540250
This is my "fuck our medic is dogshit and we can't even push out of spawn" medigun
Honestly probably a little too good

>>715544238
I love the energy weapons, even if they're shit. My only regret was not getting a painted Cow-Mangler, THE BEST ROCKET LAUNCHER.

>>715545443
Cow mangler got fixed a long time ago, it's a very decent sidegrade now. Just don't use it against a team full of engies

>>715543953
you're not supposed to force jump in the middle of combat. you use it to get into position or bail the fuck out.

>>715545443
the cow mangler is alright

>>715479943
>>715493760
>>715544238
>>715545443
>Makes the sickest design for a gun
>Its absolute ass

>>715544238
>weapon is now absolute dogshit
>now

>>715502957
Make it so successfully airblasting a projectile doesn't give you the long cooldown and then give all flamethrowers the same airblast mechanic and pyro is now 5% less retarded as a class.

>>715546152
i know it was never good, but it was at least a funny gimmick weapon you could use to fuck around

>>715477562 (OP)
I believe that the baby's faces blaster one weakness is having 4 shots and not being able to double jump, pair it up with a pistol and good aim and your in a constant state of speeding up and speeding down, messing with literally any opponent you can encounter, it makes scout's strengths and weaknesses go through the roof and the only people that complain about the boost are the brainwashed who believe bleed scout is the only way to play with it or players who can't hit a meatshot to save their lives, it's not good in every situation it's a sidegrade that likes open maps and asks you to use your now boosted strengths to counteract your crippling weaknesses

>>715545443
Only the Bison and Pomson are unusably bad
I unironically use the Manmelter sometimes if there's Scorch Shot spam

>make it give 20% of missing Uber instead of 25% flat Uber
>make the vita-saw store 25% flat uber per organ up to 100%
Fixed

>>715545697
Well when you get into position near combat zone is not uncommon to be attack before you can reload. Unless your position is a camping spot to ambush people in which case atomizer would be fine. Evasive manures for escaping though I can see being useful. I just find that during major pushes its not that useful. Again, not a bad, def not his worst primary but I rather the shortstop, stock, or even the back scatter which I will agree is worse then the force of nature

>>715541245
Often hear people complaining about the Shortstop not doing enough damage in meatshot range when it's obviously meant to be a hybrid between the Pistol and Scattergun for mid range harassing while opening up your secondary slot for Mad Milk.

>>715538671
You'd have point if you said you could use bonk to sponge sentries so someone else can deal with them
As it stands
>The shit drink that provides zero knockback protection and plays a loud fucking sound to announce your presence to sub 8 int comp players
>Not eating shit by attempting to use it for its intended purpose

>>715548459
I find myself preferring a gun or the guillotine in my secondary slot just because the 4 shots and long reload can fuck you if you whiff your shots like often I do.

>>715548459
most people are too stupid to put together the idea of sitting at midrange -- where you are far enough to dodge any projectile shot at you -- and peppering people with a peppergun
a good scout with the shortstop is infuriating to fight against, but most good scouts will still prefer the scattergun because they are better at closing the distance to take advantage of just how lethal scout is overall

>>715546898
Honestly, just remove random crits from it and the Solemn Vow. Trust me when I say that balances them. (Also it gives stock a niche then)

Every unlock that gives you damage resistance for FREE is retarded

>>715549256
the targe at least requires you to give up one of the best weapons in the game.
why they felt that sniper's SMG was nearly on the same level is baffling.

>>715549256
Its not fun to play with or against.

>>715549075
No crits on the Ubersaw is just buffing it.

>>715549075
the ubersaw could heal the opponent to full and it would still be hands-down the strongest medic melee due to it providing ubercharge
it's intentionally designed to be overpowered so that people would have more fun playing medic.
the only way to realistically get people to switch off of the ubersaw/vow is to buff medic directly and take that buff away on them, like they did when they buffed the syringe gun but removed the new extra passive health on the blutsauger.

>>715549582
>Medic doesn't just bank on deleting the scout for free
>Dies like a retard like the hidden debuff on the third degree

refute this, retards

>>715549582
Don't know if I'd call it a buff, surely most of the time you're pulling out the Ubersaw because someone is in your face and about to kill you, not because they're clueless and you want to farm uber off them.

>>715550515
Why don't you take it to [Youtuber]

>>715550515
>*vibrates gun in the air and headshots all of them at once*
average sniper

>>715549075
I really dont think the Solemn Vow needs a nerf. -10% fire rate does show intense moments.

Any syringe gun fans?

>>715550515
>other classes should use the most bullshit items in the game to deal with a sniper
what is the point here

>>715551715
No

>>715545802
Phlog and Mangler are completely usable
I will not say anything about the others

>>715551715
I like how it looks but it's thoroughly btfo by all of its alternatives

>>715551715
Yes.

>>715546898
there is nothing wrong with the ubersaw being good
next you'll be saying the crossbow needs to be nerfed so people use the syringe guns

>>715549419
Is the smg the shittest secondary ever? Taking into account Spy's revolver and medic's syringe gun as well. It feels completely harmless

>>715552116
The crossbow should heal disguised Spies.

>>715552116
The funny thing is the syringe gun is straight up better but literally nobody is willing to admit it.

>>715550515
>Soldier, demo, spy
Stand near teammates and/or a a sentry.
Hitting an MG on a skilled player is very difficult.
Demo has to hug sniper and then crouch to kill with caber.
Both of these loadouts neuter you against the rest of his team.
Spy has to pull out his gun against a razorback sniper making it much more difficult to kill him and escape in time before a pyro turns you to charcoal.
These are all suicide plays at best. If you can't consistently kill him much less survive after the fact you're not really countering him.
>Scorch shot
Trivial to avoid at his range and he's the only class with an unlock that completely negates it. Really skilled snipers literally don't give a shit about afterburn and will headshot you anyway.
>FoS
Doesn't actually solve the problem.
>Vaccinator
Arguably one of the most overpowered unlocks in the entire game and is awful to fight against as every class, not just sniper.

I already know what you're going to say next
>Just coordinate an attack on him with your team!
Sniper gets passive protection from his team just by standing near them you meanwhile have to get on mic and ask for support in a game where the bottom half of the server are borderline retarded.

>>715551715
Why would you ever use the stock syringe gun. Like the crossbow is already absurdly better than any syringe gun but even then why wouldn't you go for the one that can give you Scout speed or the one that makes you a vampire

>>715527653
>jose.gonazles.2011 touches me with one pixel of his flamethrower while running at me in a straight line before getting wiped out
>I lose 90 HP and most classes are now at risk of getting instantly taken out by splash damage

even a soldier shooting a rocket at his feet and missing me is only doing like 40, he enables being a retard way more then anyone else and also I can never see the fucking enemy team I'm shooting at because they decided to rework their flames to make it fucking impossible to see past the particle effect. pyro is in my top 5 most played but fuck pyro and fuck pyro players, every change they've made for the entire history of this game has been to ensure he's the class for small children and people masturbating while playing

>>715552254
Works fine for me. Only sniper secondary that isn't boring and it's good self defense/finisher tool.

>>715552917
>touches me with one pixel of his flamethrower
>I lose 90 HP
You don't even play the fucking game.

>>715552638
Because people underestimate the stock syringe. I cant tell you how many people will run at me at a straight line expecting a free kill whenever I pull it out. Granted it helps to have the Solemen Vow to let you know when it a good time to fight ie damaged opponents. Another case is when your pocked dies and you end up in a 1v1. Allows you to finish the job. Crossbow is better then any syringe gun but you can have some fun with stock. Esp with the reactions you can get.

I miss the reserve shooter
>"Too powerful for Pyro"
He is literally a CQC class. Stop crying.

>>715552045
fuck ya
>>715551880
love to pair it with quick fix. Zip around the map healing everyone

>>715550515
All of these have reasonable counterplay except the vax kind of. Really the only way to nerf sniper is to shape the map geometry around the fact he has infinite range.

>>715553389
>make the pyro version mini-crit on airblasted targets
It's not that fucking hard to fix

>>715553279
>umm aksually literally only 1 pixel touching you is only 4 seconds of afterburn now so its only about 40 damage he got in a fraction of a second for wiggling his mouse like a hyperactive child in your direction before dying. nevermind that this is the most extreme example possible and you're assuredly taking more hits then just 1

ok, he still rewards you way more then any other class for making shitty trades. stop jerking off and think straight for a minute

>>715552521
so teamwork is important? damn they really need to patch that out of team fortress

>>715553697
coordinating to take down 1 key target is way more teamwork then the sniper and the engineer/soldier all standing together shooting down a hallway (they were all going to do this even if the other two guys weren't there).

the devs went on record around release they deliberately designed the game so every class is technically playing solo but the lone wolves are inadverently helping eachother, the game was never designed in this corny overwatch method where the entire team needs to operate like navy seals to take out the 1 guy who otherwise makes the game impossible to win, thats just the meta coordinated players in a VC who constantly scrim together do

>>715500673
>Justice Frontier + Stock Pistol
>Wrangler

Enjoy free crits + a very relible finisher if you somehow fail to kill with the shotgun.

Seriously you can kill Heavies with the stock pistol.

>>715488745
Then play TF2 Classic I guess?

Take the Beggar's pill, anons.
>Most unique firing method of Soldier's primaries.
>Same fire rate as the Air Strike while in midair, but with none of the damage penalty.
>The Cow Mangler's charge shot, but good.
>Rockets are faster than a Pyro can reflect, and for an Engineer to repair any of his buildings mid rocket.
>Tap firing turns it into a rocket launcher that doesn't have to reload, turning one of its downsides into an upside.
>No ammo from dispensers isn't a problem when the close-range playstyle it enforces automatically puts you in easy reach of dropped ammo packs.
>Elevated further when the Buff Banner or Concheror is used; Buff Banner for insane damage in a full burst, Concheror to make the close-range playstyle more easily manageable and survivable.
>Misfire rocket jumping leads to some outright insane shit if you know how to do it.
>The best weapon to use on RTD servers when you roll Homing Projectiles.

>>715477562 (OP)
I like using the detonator to spam around corners.

>>715554649
it's good for bombing, so is the airstrike,
Stock is just more satisfying and consistent.

>>715554649
I miss Beggar's Panic Attack bros.
Engie loved it.

>>715554649
I refuse to learn it because it's a pain in the ass to get the timing with viewmodels off

>>715555140
Almost would've named mine the "Beggar's Boomstick" since they were essentially the same weapon. I've been saying it for a while now that they should revert it to pre-Jungle Inferno, but add a new shotgun with its post-Jungle Inferno stats, like how they separated the Escape Plan from the Equalizer. Pic related was considered to be the Panic Attack's model, and I think it would be a better fit for its current stats.

>game gets a 65.6 MB update
>it's not the summer update
>no patch notes
>it doesn't do anything
sasuga, volvo

>>715555374 (Me, The Retard)
The pic related in question:

>>715554649
>shoot rocket at someone
>it flies 30 feet to the right when they're moving left and misses them entirely
>die
easily the worst weapon in the game

>>715555374
>>715555454
There's a slight complication with splitting the Panic Attack like the Equalizer: It's warpaint-able, so any new model would also have to be, and any expensive and/or unusual war paints used on it would be duplicated.

>>715555754
>rocket (singular)
There's your problem

>>715554649
>>715554860
Soldier has to have the most balanced set of primaries desu. Even the Liberty Launcher which a lot of people consider to be the worst one still has some very worthwhile upsides. Compare that to classes like Heavy which have like 2 meta primaries (they both play about the same)

>>715555802
>sit there shoving rockets into a tube
>oops there isn't an enemy now because you've been charging for several seconds and they ran away/killed you
>even if they're still there half the rockets are going to miss because now some of them go 30 feet in a different but still entirely wrong direction

its so fucking bad. if you're psychic enough to be able to know exactly where the enemy is going to be several seconds in the future + land janky bullshit you should just play demoknight or spy and get sick melee frags since you need to be point blank to hit anyone with this fucking thing

>>715555798
And?

Literally just give all sniper’s rifles tracer rounds and lower the body shot damage so he can’t one shot a medic. Tracers let players better handle sightlines and a precision class being able to onetap a medic with a bodyshot is dumb

Are you a Wee Booties or a Bootlegger kinda guy?

>>715556472
I'm a "Demoknight is stupid and 25 hp is not worth losing pills" kinda guy.

>>715552254
it's a mediocre weapon on purpose, the sniper could have no secondary slot at all and he'd still be incredible.
it's there to get cleanup kills after you land that first headshot, back before noscope bodyshots became the go-to when they added a crosshair when unscoped.
revolver is actually a very good weapon, almost on par with the shotgun but excels in a different range, the syringe gun isn't on a combat class so making any direct comparisons is kind of pointless.

bootlegger should have been made into demo gunboats and scottish handshake should have been made into demo gardener

>weapon is basically a straight upgrade as long as you know how to do your two basic jobs as spy
>literally no one uses it
is there something i'm missing?

>>715556996
>is there something i'm missing?
Respect your yourself and other players.

>>715556996
>is there something i'm missing?
Respect for yourself and other players.

>>715477562 (OP)
FaN is a valid sidegrade. It's very useful for denying pushes and situationally better than stock, like when dealing with pyros and meds that are trying to uber. ESPECIALLY meds with non-stock mediguns, because even the vax is vulnerable to you.

>>715556996
It has low aura

they should unironically give heavy a fourth slot just for his lunchbox items. shotgun heavy is the most fun i've had with the class despite being objectively worse and i doubt giving the slowest class basic burst damage AND an easily punishable way to heal from damage would be that broken

>>715486463
illiterate

wee booties should have never been in the weapon slot (and by extension the bootlegger), full meleeman was a mistake.
the melee-oriented bonuses should have been built into the shields. not being able to shoot people in a first person shooter is a ridiculous idea. it's notably different from choosing to not shoot but having the option. but the base jumper exists as does the sticky/rocket jumper so full melee is unavoidable now.
at the very least, the scottish handshake should have been a persian persuader reskin so they could have used the tauntkill it was going to have and to be distinct from bottleknight.
I am in eternal anguish that I cannot have a full pirate loadout since the loose cannon and bootlegger are fighting for the same slot

>>715519062
>>715478665
I don’t think its damage capability was nerfed since 2013 but the critacola definitely was which made flanking on pubs on less successful. The FaN also gets much better as your accuracy climbs versus any other scout’s weapons. If your aim isn’t more than above average then it has almost no use.

>>715557343
>spy mains
>respect for other players
the amount of tryhards I've seen using the kunai and deadringer begs to differ

>>715488745
>>715494160
stockholm syndrome. There's no excuse that's valid for the lack of new weapons.

>>715557495
Those kinds of players have a self respect overflow and are too proud to use it over the Ambassador even post-nerf.

>>715541245
I'm still upset that all the whining on SPUF got this thing nerfed.

>>715557367
i think they should turn the buffalo steak damage vulnerability into resistance so i can actually bumrush people and melee them to death like god intended

>>715556996
it's bad. spy gun is for when you CANT sap/stab stuff. it's a only good for something like 2fort

>>715515330
Wait is this official? I've known these techniques since the gamemode I played require me to know them, but I didn't know it was that common

>>715556996
Ambassador is simply too tempting for most people

>make a point blank weapon that only holds two shots and reloads slowly
>balance it so the first shot pops them in the air for an easy follow up
>this makes sense, worse in longer exchanges in exchange for a strong combo up close
>suddenly decide the weapon being anything more than a shitty meme for twitter clips is le bad because the second a non-melee stock weapon is good compfag diapers start filling up
>shooting someone with the FaN now sends them to africa, making it pretty much impossible to get the second shot off
>now only useful to push people off certain maps
valve needs to be studied

>>715556996
Playing Spy is all about feeling superior and snobby.
There's no pride or skill in killing someone with guaranteed crits you got for free. Everbody knows you didn't earn that kill, including your fragile ego.

>>715492007
What if the speed boost is activated? You don't start slower, you charge the meter like you currently do, and you can get an instnat speed boost for a short moment (during damage done still replenishes some meter)

>>715479417
shortstop was fucking retarded on release lol

>>715557421
>full melee is stupid in an fps
...Why? Because the genre says "shooting" so nothing can deviate even a little bit? retard.
>I am in eternal anguish that I cannot have a full pirate loadout since the loose cannon and bootlegger are fighting for the same slot
maladaptive autist

>>715541245
Have they finally improved that stupid shove. I hate how it stops your automatic reload for a few seconds when pretty much everything else doesn't

>>715559159
lol
lmao

>>715488745
Shut the fuck up you retarded reddit nigger

>>715558329
that paired with the gru I can see being broken

>>715540250
I love pulling this out and having snipers piss and moan when they can't just one hit kill dudes across the map without engaging anymore. How DARE a counter for sniper exist when he already has counters to other classes himself.

>>715550515
>Sniper exists in a vacuum

>>715556996
really fucking overrated weapon. frontier justice is more bullshit than diamondback ever was.
people just seethe about diamondback because it's on spy. I would rather have stock in most situations for cleanup kills and destroying buildings.

>>715550515
>dude just bum rush the guy way behind enemy lines

>>715541245
they should have never changed this thing from its original version. They also should have never changed the dds from just being +25hp.

>>715553483
which is what they did and what mappers do. If anything the maps are more sniper-hostile now than they were in the past, and there's more ways to approach sniper than ever before.

>>715559391
Doesn’t the steak speed buff not stack with other speed bonuses for that very reason

>>715559757
the annoying thing about it is that it is unpredictable. You never can tell if the spy is going to 2-shot you for 0 cost unless you have been spending all your time paying attention to him and his antics exclusively. It's not unbalanced in the sense that it's too good and outclasses everything else, it's unbalanced in the sense that it really doesn't add anything to spy except making enemies say "that's annoying." I'd make the diamondback have a new + and a new - to make it more interesting, personally. Less cloak in exchange for slightly faster firing speed, maybe, which would make it a pseudo-gunspy that requires you still do your spy duties to earn the right to pop people. Maybe not increased firing speed, maybe something else, but whatever.

waaah waaah sniper is overpowered
Why's he off-class in competitive and rare there?
>waah waah he's OP in casual
Like a conch box soldier? Or a natascha heavy? Maybe a soda popper scout? Eyelander demoknight? They're not overpowered if it's relying on the inexperience of players to stomp.
>nooooo there's no counterplay to sniper he just instakills me!!!
If you walk in a straight line or aren't paying attention, sure. You can move your head hitbox, you can listen for shots and time it, you can coordinate with your team, you can spam his location or suspected locations.
>WAAAAH THAT MAKES IT HARD TO AIM
>WAAAH HE'S TOO QUIET CUS HE'S FAR AWAY
>WAAAAH IT'S TOO HARD TO COORDINATE IN PUBS
>WAAAAAH I SHOULD BE ABLE TO JUST WALK UP AND KILL HIM
>IT'S NOT FAAAAAAIR I SHOULD JUST BE ABLE TO GET INTO HIS RANGE AND KILL HIM AND HE SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT!!!!
You just need to get better at the game then.

Sniper is NOT overpowered. YOU are underpowered. Stop blaming it on a 17 year old hat trading simulator.

>>715558726
comp players never in the history of the game have thought the force-a-nature was good by any stretch of the imagination.
if anything, there were major complaints coming from pub players because the day 1 force a nature functioned the way airblast did at the time: 1 bullet is all it took to stunlock you into a predictable trajectory. So now suddenly scrub scouts were getting easy kills.
The same update that made the knockback gun deal real knockback is the same update that also made self-knockback into REAL self knockback and not just a pre-baked jump regardless of your facing direction.
Literally the only other major change to the gun has been to guarantee that knockback is dealt if you did a minimum of 30 damage.
You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

>>715560282
Make it the air strike instead of the frontier justice, give the spy a larger clip for backstabs and saps.

>>715560550
damn that's a good one, I'm stealing it.

definitive list of needed changes
serious what the fuck can you do to fix the sun on a stick and volcano fragment?

>>715559757
>frontier justice is more bullshit
anon, did you forget some things about the diamondback?
>doesn't have a halved mag size. the damage penalty literally doesn't matter unless you are shooting at a building
>doesn't require the spy lose his primary source of damage to cash those crits in
>revolvers are perfectly accurate at range, and do not have their damage spread out over distance
>disguises perfectly hide the crits
>spy can see your healthbar
>spy has the dead ringer so fuck you in particular
Spy's variant of crit storage is significantly more cancerous. The most you can complain about with the FJ is that wrangled sentries are pain in the ass, but that's the wrangler being cancer, not the FJ.

Defend this cancer

Before the shortcircuit buff, how did it work? I never got it to delete projectiles until they buffed the fuck out of it

The Syringe Gun's projectile ark is jank as shit and it doesnt even hit where you aim it.

>>715552507
>>715552638
>>715553365
a good combat medic with syringe gun is the most annoying thing you can play as against other players. They get so mad and call you an aim botter.

>>715560817
>Volcano Fragment
AoE explosion attack when attacking burning targets with it. Very low swing speed.
>Sun on a Stick
Adds a meter to your Scattergun/Pistol to shoot incendiary bullets that charges with damage. Health penalty.

>>715561172
>-10% explosion radius
There, it's completely balanced now.

>>715561287
because the projectiles you see are just fake visuals that don't match up with the actual "bullets" it fires

>>715561173
instead of an energy ball, it was like an electric airblast. just deleted projectiles in front of you, but couldn't refill metal while held from dispensers/cart
then for some reason they lumped that ability into the primary fire and you could just walk at demomen and they couldn't do a fucking thing about it.
then they introduced a cost per projectile deleted
then they buffed the fuck out of it and removed the inability to refill metal while it's held out from dispensers/carts
Why the actual fuck did they delete that power limiter that they intentionally put on it?

>>715556895
nothing more satisfying than using the half zatoichi and doing 4 charge attacks in rapid succession and getting 4 kills and then charging off lmao

>>715561453
Let me guess, it's that way because they were afraid that the Syringe Gun would be too good if players could actually aim it?

>>715561596
I assume it's for performance reasons, working like the tracers for heavy's minigun.

>>715560817
I always thought the way to fix the volcano fragment AND the gas passer was to make its fire effect permanent unless they touch resupply, or at least make it last a very long time and not be curable with health packs. Alternatively let them have fire that stacks instead of normal fire. Sun on a stick should just be an instakill on burning targets, because it would STILL not be usefull in competitive and be super situational in casual. Could you imagine all the scouts running at heavies to gib them but being mowed down before getting close? It would be hilarious.

also scorch shot doesn't need a nerf, it needs to be split into 2 weapons. Make one a self-combo weapon that sort of acts like the loose cannon (without charge up obviously) that doesn't effect anyone except who you two-hit, also doesn't knock people, just jumps up in the air and then lands back down on, hopefully, your target (this would be the one to keep the name) (also on bounce and self-combo give it audio cues that's pulled from the soundtrack of meet the pyro, kind of like the sfx for the loose cannon being two audio cues) and have the other one be the dedicated knockback flare gun that just causes tiny damage but is a ranged airblast, basically. Call it the Sustained Cruelty.

>>715560920
>doesn't have a halved mag size
doesn't do 180 damage either. engie also gets his crits easier with 2 per kill and 1 per assist just turtling behind his gun.
>doesn't require the spy lose his primary source of damage to cash those crits in
-15% damage penalty is really fucking bad on a gun that didn't have great DPS to begin with.
if you have good aim stock revolver can get a lot of kills.
>revolvers are perfectly accurate at range
but are all or nothing
>disguises perfectly hide the crits
>spy can see your healthbar
>spy has the dead ringer so fuck you in particular
fair complaints

thing is this scenario of racking up a bunch of backstab kills and then running to a corner of the map to become a bootleg sniper never actually happens. getting multiple backstab kills and staying alive is hard. engie on the other hand takes very little risk using FJ and if you blow up his gun and then immediately die to his crits he's just gonna rebuild that shit in ten seconds. getting to an engie can be an extremely difficult task at times but also required if he has a tele up in a good spot.

>>715493760
this would be fine if they got rid of the uber upon mmphing, it should be something you have to use around a corner, not something you pop in the middle of a fire fight to pause the action and maybe get a puff of critical fire on your target before they murder you

>>715536317

>>715561814
also as an aside, split the wrangler too. Have the Wrangler proper keep control of the sentry but have no defensive bonus, and have a different secondary that when you pull the trigger it gives the sentry the same exact shield. You can either make it a one and done shield with identical duration and a cooldown between uses or give it a bar that lets you turn it off and on based on when you hold down to use it and if you overuse it then you have a cooldown (my preference being the latter) (bonus: you no longer accidentally disable your sentry by swapping to the weapon either way, which isn't a bad thing for current wrangler I guess but it a little annoying)
Call the new one The Alamo Armor or something lmao

>>715561872
>on a gun that didn't have great DPS to begin with.
revolver is good retard, you should try it out instead of sticking to "trickstabs"

I feel like you could remove half the weapons in this game and you wouldn't really miss anything.
Unlocks should've been more like the Flare Gun or Huntsman instead of just being minor stat changes on the original item.
And certainly no crap like the Sniper shields, Vaccinator, Wrangler or the Short Circuit.

>>715562301
go back to overwatch

>>715562379
How on Earth is that opinion comparable to wanting the game to be more like Overwatch?

>>715561872
anon you can't be complaining that the revolvers are bad at doing damage and claim that a perfectly accurate shot being "all or nothing" is some sort of gotcha.
while diamondback doesn't get as many crits as the FJ does, the spy isn't going to be hunted down in the same way that an engineer does during a push that is intent on breaking his sentry. Spy is still at full strength when he is rewarded his crits, Engineer is incredibly vulnerable to the point that even when he is the one voluntarily breaking it, he exposes himself to a flanker like spy.
For the record I think both guns are kind of stupid on the basis of storing crits makes (you) suffer because your team is feeding. But of the two, the FJ has more nuance that keeps it in check that the diamondback just blatantly ignores. And I've held that sentiment since the engineer update, and even back when the diamondback only gave crits for sapping buildings.
Only thing I'd change with the gun is make the diamondback function as a sort of KGB of backstabs. You land a stab, you get enough time to fire off 2 crit shots. Sure it can still feel bad to die to it, but it's localized to the immediate vicinity of the stab instead of being an ambassador with no additional aim requirement.

>>715492379
Pyro has hardcountered soldier and demo since airblast was added.

>>715486137
does the disciplinary action count? you really only need to be near someone to use its effect.

>>715563252
the disciplinary action has a ridiculous melee range (bigger than any of demoknight's swords and somehow is big enough to hit behind him), which may as well be it's real upside if you are exclusively thinking about how it gets used it combat.

>>715563376
yeah but nobody would use it if that were its only upside (besides putting a demomen killed part on a strange one)
you gain the ability to hit slightly further but lose the ability to oneshot pyos, demos, and medics with a random crit, plus it takes three hits to kill light classes. it'd be a funny sidegrade at best if it didn't have the speed gimmick. that's not even taking into account how much better the escape plan is.

>>715562150
>revolver is good retard, you should try it out instead of sticking to "trickstabs"
can you not read?
>if you have good aim stock revolver can get a lot of kills.
gunspy is my preferred spy loadout and I think one of the most consistent and fun ways to play him.
he's still a garbage class and gets completely invalidated if there's a decent medic giving everyone overheals or a scout actively hunting you down.

>>715560817
>nerfing holiday punch of all things
If you let the largest, slowlest class to sneak up on you and make you waste your uber with the forced taunt mechanic, you absolutely deserve it.

>>715557367
>>715559757
trvkes

>>715477562 (OP)
>Force-A-Nature
>Bonk!
>Sandman

I miss TF2

>>715561173
>how did it work
badly

>>715479046
y'know what they should have done? just reverse the order. You gotta hit them with the guillotine first(kinda works as a warning about what's to come, too) and then the sandman deals the fuckload of damage.

>>715562919
>anon you can't be complaining that the revolvers are bad at doing damage and claim that a perfectly accurate shot being "all or nothing" is some sort of gotcha.
Your DPS is going to be abysmal if you are waiting 1.25s between every shot.
>the spy isn't going to be hunted down in the same way
what game are you playing because it clearly isn't TF2.
average pubber will chase spies to the ends of the earth to the point cuck dane had to make a video about it.
everyone seethes about diamondback despite nobody using it. why? because it's on spy and everyone hates spies.
meanwhile how many games have been won by a single engineer on last because nobody cared enough to swap to stickies for a few minutes.
>Spy is still at full strength when he is rewarded his crits
spy at full strength is made of tissue paper.
>Engineer is incredibly vulnerable to the point that even when he is the one voluntarily breaking it, he exposes himself to a flanker like spy.
Spy is fighting behind enemy lines, engie is not. Engie is probably no more than 5ft away from spawn or has a tele streaming in teammates to help him.
Engie spy matchup is heavily in favor of engie even with FJ. If both players are hitting their shots engie should always win.

For the record I'm not arguing diamondback isn't stupid design because it absolutely is but it's on the worst class in the game and requires way more work than similar weapons. Anyone arguing it's a straight upgrade or overpowered is blinded by their spy butthurt.

>>715560421
Nobody cares about comp retard.

>>715565217
Valve did, and it's partially why the game went downhill from Gun Mettle onward.

>>715565350
Yeah because dipshits like him parrot compfaggotry instead of letting it die with the whopping 100 people that play it.

>>715477562 (OP)

>be enemy fighting someone else
>suddenly forcefully relocated 10 meters away
>Instantly die to a meat cleaver in the face right afterwards

FaN + cleaver is the only way i know how to play scout anymore,. it's such a dickhead loadout somehow.

>>715558726
>shooting someone with the FaN now sends them to africa, making it pretty much impossible to get the second shot off
I’ve never had a problem getting full damage on the first or second shot in the vast majority of situations. Just flick and click faster.

This, but the Brass Beast

>>715490834
honestly i can get behind this guy, the problem with TF2 is that it's stuck between two design philosophies of working as a team and selfishly DMing, and it accomplishes neither because not having an engineer or a medic fucking sucks for obvious reasons but actually playing those classes fucking sucks because they're literally designed so that people that are bad at videogames can participate.

>>715479130
>Bonk basically fucking worthless too
Bonk is goated in casual servers with poor team coordination, and can carry pubs if you coordinate with just one friend to splode sentries when you are bonked.

>>715559757
>frontier justice is more bullshit than diamondback ever was.
I'm not defending the frontier justice as a reasonable weapon, but this is bullshit. To access those crits engie will usually be in a situation where he's going to be insta-gibbed anyway, not to mention the crits are far less deadly at range on a far less mobile class.

>>715560817
caber doesn't need a 'major buff', just revert it
tf is wrong with the sticky jumper? the only "problem" with it is that normal stickies are so good it's not worth giving up for a little mobility
bonk does exactly what it's supposed to do but I don't really know why they added the slow; just revert that and it's fine
in what world do the GRU need a buff
air strike is perfectly fine where it is
so is amputator
simply revert the cleighmor
natascha is fine because it's a spite weapon, it only comes out when there's 5 scunts on the enemy team
loose cannon is perfect
minigun is also perfect
rocket jumper is fine
scottish is fine
skullcutter is already mediocre due to the slow
homewrecker is only an issue if someone is going full pybro
camper is fine
holiday punch is a joke weapon
scorch shit needs more than a minor nerf (but don't because i use it)
ubersaw is perfectly balanced risk-reward, just nerf medic's melee crit rate
wrangler needs a full rework
i agree with most others

>>715492379
this pic is wrong because not only does tf2 not really center around matchups, but solly and demo are generalists designed to be BTFOd by specialists whenever they fight in their territory because they either get outdamaged, outmaneuvered, or outgunned because they have tiny mags and long reloads. granted, they tend to be just better because heavy and pyro aren't allowed to do damage, but saying that they were designed to be OP is just wrong, it's just that everyone else that was supposed to fuck them over got nerfed into the ground(friendly reminder that the dev commentary unironically says that pyro was designed to be the best short range combat class, as if he could deal damage)

>>715553279

If he was talking about pre-jungle inferno pyro, he might have a point.
Full afterburn after getting barely hit just once by lingering flamethrower particles was ridiculous, so I'm glad they changed that particular aspect, and relegated full afterburn on one hit to flare guns instead.
But admittedly the old method did mean he was slightly more potent than current era pyro, especially if you were good with puff n' sting old axtinguisher.

>>715502526
the best part is that this was entirely avoidable, medic in TF2 could fight decently well and also healed WAY quicker than in tf2, and he also had the ability to spread the rona to the enemy team. they literally changed his design entirely because they didn't like that medics didn't like to heal, as if that would cause them to start healing instead of just switching to scout.

>>715567135
>puff n' sting old axtinguisher
I still have no fucking idea why this ever needed to be removed. He's the cqc class.

>>715567469
I remember a lot of people complaining despite it not being anything remotely oppressive. The only thing I can understand is that it was significantly better than any other loadouts at the time, but it still didn't feel overpowered.

>>715567029
>tf is wrong with the sticky jumper?
capping it at 2 stickies was a mistake

>>715567731
>has never had to deal with an unkillable demo noclipping around the map on upward

>>715567731
you don't need more than 2, you already can fucking teleport yourself to the enemy's spawn

>>715567469
he's the cqc class in a game where every map is point blank fights and flanking routes because otherwise sniper makes the game unplayable, stop pretending getting into flamethrower range is hard because you run headfirst into a heavy

getting back into this game now that the botpocolypse seems to have passed, have they added enough cosmetics that I could make a decent DMC scout or just lots of gay/furry/gayfurry stuff

>>715484325
Unlike FaN, Soda doesn't do knockback, so you can hit two meatshots in a row for more damage than FaN does outside of tiny little rooms.

Demoknight, while not unbalanced, was a mistake that broke core design tenets.
Razorback is a terrible weapon, but what it does is so uninteresting and cancerous it should never have been allowed.
Every Spy/Engineer unlock has been a mistake.

>>715492379
Piss-stained sniper hands made this. Walking back and forth and clicking on heads is not appreciably more skillful than either of the explosive classes, and is nearly always far less risky

I say this with my most hours on scout, so neither one of these is my favorite and I get killed more by explosive classes, but sniper players are genuinely the most frustrating to listen to

>>715568212
>where every map is point blank fights
most maps are shit

>>715501307
Cat board, cat website, cat world wide web

>>715568212
Minicrit axtinguisher was fine
>Consistent kill on 125hp classes
>Have to flank if you want to kill power classes with it

>a nerf makes class more fun and engaging to play

>>715511489
i wish there was some other gun that filled it's niche of a close range headshot gun that wasn't tethered to spy, in singleplayer FPS my favorite playstyle is just going pistol-only headshot machine but there isn't really any equivalent in tf2

>>715569014
>my favorite playstyle is just going pistol-only headshot machine but there isn't really any equivalent in tf2
same. gunspy is as close as it gets. I wish TF2 had something like mccree.

>>715529467
tbf the scorch doesn't need to bother with headshots and also explodes for a little extra leniency, also it does AoE which the sniper isn't allowed to do since they removed it from the sydney sleeper (I'm still mad)

>>715558726
Toxotransmosis moment.

>>715546898
>nooooo you don't understand we have to nerf the only decent damaging option for the most defenseless class
It's fine. Vita-saw is okay too but I'm not sure how to buff it in a way where it can actually challenge the ubersaw.

>>715527743
imo heavy wins if he's in a good position, scout can't really dodge his shit or kite him like he can with the explosive classes or pyro

>>715536317

>>715541245
your ugleh

>>715560817
Eyelander is fine, it's Demo's shields that need to be nerfed into the fucking floor.

>>715481180
Remove those from the Pomson and buff it. Remove everything from it, actually, then take Rescue Ranger, strip all the rescue equipment from it and give it Pomson skin and damage number. Bam, Pomson is actually good.

>>715569357

>>715537969
i mean you're probably not seeing it because if you're playing pyro seriously then you're gonna bring it but not use it much, it's the best "fuck it why not" weapon because you can just pop a shot whenever you're crossing through an area where you can line up a shot but can't safely get into effective range because it has almost no opportunity cost, reloads itself, has AoE, and almost all of it's damage comes from the afterburn so you don't need to commit to a firefight to get damage.

>>715555798
all the more reason for them to do it
>hehe i like my panic attack
>WHAT THE FUCK THEY MADE MY PANIC ATTACK A DIFFERENT GUN
>now has to unbox more warpaints to paint the "new" gun

>>715480085
I wish they made it so instead of slowing enemies down it sped up. I don't care if thats a horrible idea in practice it sounds fun and heavy desperately needs miniguns that change his playstyle that aren't the brass beast

>>715570514

>>715480085
>>715535426
I don't really use the natascha cause of the damage being rough
but I've had demoknights come rushing in only to get riddled by me and just come to complete stop in despair before death and it makes it worth

>>715493760
I love running into phlog players as heavy
they just die lol
even better is finding them taunting and blasting them as they are inv so they die in like 0.2 seconds upon the end

>>715570514
that actually might be kinda fun, though +30% speed might not be enough

>>715570514
what if it sped up your target and by doing so threw off their aim and positioning

>>715570514
Heavy should have a big ass super shotgun
Lean into the fat scout playstyle

>>715572597
>shoot at scout going towards flank route
>they speed up like a bullet and fly off the map
Yes, I like this new weapon

>>715570514
You know I'd expect the retards behind the ficticious genre of "movement shooter" would come up with the idea that the natascha needs to be "nerfed" by giving heavy mini speedhacks.
That being said having made a custom weapon with tf2items that forcibly pulls heavy forward and has a huge unrev penalty, this would be fine as a new heavy weapon

>>715570514
>all around movement
I remember when this game launched and all the quake/UT boomers thought it was slow as fuck with molasses movement. Do fortnight kiddies really think movement is TF2's strength?

>>715573632
It was Team Fortress classic fags (all 4 of them) crying that not every class had blast jumping.
Quakeniggers didn't reach terminal faggotry until like 2010.
If you're going to pretend to be an oldfag get your basic information right.

>>715573871
>If you're going to pretend to be an oldfag get your basic information right.
I was 11 when my parents got me the orange box. Sorry I wasn't up to date with exactly what the autistic gen x'ers were complaining about.

>>715573871
>Team Fortress classic fags (all 4 of them) crying that not every class had blast jumping.
I for one was glad that Scout was finally something other than "Medic but worse."

who cares. bring back quickplay

>>715548846
>sponge sentries so someone else can deal with them
you're not supposed to use it as a shitty ubercharge, you're supposed to use it as a shitty invis watch

>>715574246
>I'm s SOOOPER COOL oldfag and actually it's lame REAL OLDFAGS (like me who are so EPIC XD) actually know this
>That's wrong
>UGH GRAMPS YOU CARE ABOUT THAT?? I'M JUST TOO COOL TO CARE WHAT A GRANDPA THINKS
Your faggotry is so unreal. It's every fucking time with you retards.

>>715568379
>Unlike FaN, Soda doesn't do knockback
wow i had no idea thanks

>>715574882
You can't use it as a shitty inviswatch anymore, hell you can barely use it as a shitty dead ringer since you need to clear enough ground to clear the stun and hide the loud ass accompanying sound

>>715574732
It's probably not being reverted, but Valve might make a few bandaid fixes to casual, just putting back the 45 minute map timer would make it much better

>>715551715
The syringe guns are objectively worse than the crossbow and not even in a “it’s less optimal but still fun to use” like the shotguns on heavy, they just suck. That said their is a certain primal joy in killing a cocky scout with the blutsauger.

>>715550515
youre a fucking idiot, Snipers are always hanging around the backline and thats usually were
1. Sentries are at.
2.Thier Team is around them
3. the flank to get to them is far and requires time to get to and even then most of the time their using razor shield so spies have to settle sometimes for harassment.

Sniper secondaries need the nerf. full blown nullifications to your best counters for a class that that oneshot everyone in the game from far away is too strong.

>>715549256
yeah sniper getting "fuck your class" items is bad design
even if they not broken it's still a dogshit idea

I just started using the diamond back because of this thread and I must say this shit is overpowered as fuck. You damn near have infinite crits because there are always 3-4 dumbasses on the other team or random buildings. I'm legit dueling soldiers and pyros while picking off every low health fool a glance at. I feel scummy even using this thing

>>715515921

>>715479046
>MUH COMP FAGS
toxic casual elitists are always so funny

>queue for casual
>my teammates are bad at every single class
>they are so bad that the enemy demoman+medic unusual combo (which the enemy team always inexplicably has) can walk directly in front of my heavy while he's firing his gun at them, kill me, and then leave
>this is every single game of casual

>>715552116
I say this and look like this
Crossbow and Ubersaw both need to be nerfed

>>715570514
>People are STILL pretending Tomislav has any meaningful downside

>>715578336
The bots were the best thing to happen to TF2 post-matchmaking. Forced people to start hosting their own servers again. It's a great example about how the problems of matchmaking services don't really exist when you let players host/manage their own servers.

>>715484191
I was a literal god as a scout on this map with the force.
You could get 3 caps in under two minutes if the other team was retarded enough.

>>715570514
>Minigun that does 135% damage and lets Heavy move faster while revved
>"We made it balanced!"
Sasuga. I expect to see this in TF2C next update.

>>715538995
>be Pyro
>see Sniper
>flare his ass from a mile away.
>watch him panic and try to throw piss on himself
>see my team's sniper get the kill cause he's glowing now.
>get the assist kill.

>>715537969
I easily see this the most of any flare gun, and the flare guns the most of any secondary type on Pyro.

>>715560817
is this zesty's list from that recent vid? The more I watch that guy the more I think he's a shmuck
mad milk not being found anywhere in the nerfs alongside piss is dumb

>>715579602
He often reveals himself to be a loud retard, but even with that he's right more often than the average 19-year-old crusading for changes to TF2.
He's a bit like the Asmongold of TF2.

>>715560817
>eyelander giganerfed I hate this weapon grr!!
>zatoichi not on the list
vibe check failed

>>715578336
TF2 doing meet your match and the removal of team scramble has lead to every single fucking match being a stomp one way or the other with no oversight or chance for correction. Best they can do is swap the fourth best player on a team onto the other and he will quit the match 50% of the time anyway.

>>715563123
>shoot pyros feet twice
>they're dead unless they can predict the exact moment you fire and airblast
>you take 60 points of fire damage at worst
>even if pyro airblasts he takes double self damage because valve doesn't know how to program

>>715579889
>This free 2 play fag occasionally leeches correct opinions from people who know what they're talking about so he's totally based and not like all the other current cast of youtumors
Nigger you could say the same shit about incel dane who apparently finally used the direct upgrade version of the panic attack he asked for coming to the conclusion that WOW 108 DAMAGE MORE THAN 90 DAMAGE AND 216 DAMAGE BIG MORE THAN 180
Are we going to start pretending fucking molester dane the nepotism game has ever come up with a good opinion?

>>715578336
I keep having to make new accounts because the internal MMR thinks I am too good and expects me to reverse 11 man stomp squads

>>715580353
*chews on your head while making homer simpson noises*
nobody cares get off the pc

>>715580124
The main problem he lists with the eyelander is it getting so many different types of bonuses all at the same time. I forget which he picked, but his proposal was to nerf one of the bonuses from it (either no more extra health or no more extra speed).

>>715566608
>this can beood if you coordinate with a soldier or demo
May as well play medic.

>>715580486
>Hurrr I'm so retarded I troll you, you have to stop calling me a retard look at how much I didn't actually care

>>715580517
Doesn't matter. Nerfing the "fun" demoknight melees and ignoring/buffing the ones considered better by high level players is literal Valve balancing logic and it's not ok just because he doesn't like the subclass.

>>715580575
kwab

>>715477562 (OP)
did he cook?