Thread 715484337

Is there a more overrated visual novel?

>>715484337 (OP)
Yes, it's called Umineko

>>715484337 (OP)
steins gate

>>715484337 (OP)
there's already a fate thread >>715471119

>>715484337 (OP)
FSN is rough, but it has some really great highs.

The House in Futa Morgana

everything popular is bad, thing I like GOOD

Yep, it's kino.

>>715484337 (OP)
The most overrated VN is probably still DDLC. Or Class of 09 mostly for the ironic weeb factor.

>>715484337 (OP)
The most overrated vns are just everything in the top 5 of vndb. Always has been.

>>715484432
/thread

>>715484337 (OP)
You just didn't get it. I like it because of pic related.

>>715484432
This

>>715484337 (OP)
It's hard for a visual novel to become overrated because the medium is generally small. But some of the mainstream ones are, like >>715484370
and muv luv. Steins;Gate too probably.

>>715484337 (OP)
lol

>>715485018

Oh hey that's that new Honkai Star Rail character.

>>715485235
How recent is this? Hasn't Blue Archive fallen a lot in revenue? I don't think it gets anywhere close to the top of the gacha charts.

>>715484337 (OP)
A lot, steins;gate, Ryukishit, Uchikoshit, muv luv (this is actually good but extra was painful) etc.
But the worst of all is probably Clannad.

>>715484786
I liked DDLC. People get too caught up in getting angry over the horror part.

How does /v/ do it? Even with all its flaws, it still manages to maintain a level of quality far above the other media boards

>>715485018
Based Redman

>>715484786
Wrong, because neither of those two count as actual VNs One is ironic metashit and the other is "anti-VN" shit. They aren't genuine nor are made for the VN audience.

>>715484337 (OP)
Gilgamesh is the best character of all time and singlehandedly makes it a 10/10.

>>715485253
Is the HSR collab decent? I've heard some mixed things so far.

>>715484370
fpbp

I think the UBW anime might be even better than the VN route.

>>715484943
>>715485090
>>715485464
Steins;Gate is underrated by stupid people, actually.

>Saber is underpowered in the collab
MIHOMO YOU FAGGOTS

>>715484939
>my favorite VN is top 6
Nice

>>715486037
Gachafags may be subhuman but at least they can recognize superiority.

>>715484337 (OP)
Subahibi

>>715484337 (OP)
Muv Luv
>t. enjoyed extra/unlimited and the first half of alternative but thought the writing and characterization fell off a cliff after the CHOMP arc
It's not bad and I can appreciate the ambition and worldbuilding, but if you're expecting it to actually payoff the hours of SoL buildup in a satisfying way you're going to be sorely disappointed.

I'm kind of happy that Katawa Shoujo doesn't get mentioned as much as overrated anymore. That visual novel was always 4chan-core, you all just had to wait for 10 years to finally see it.

>>715484370
fpbp

>>715484547
>thing I like GOOD
Yes.

How is Fate still so popular after all this time?

>>715486718
Gacha

>>715486824
I want to believe it's some other factor or quality with the series but you're probably right.

>>715484432
S;G deserves the praise it gets, contrarian retards deserve to be ignored.

>>715486824
>>715486943
FGO is one of the worst Gacha's out there in basically every category except story.

>>715487067
Cool

>>715487067
Story is shit too. It's literal torture to play the game.

>>715486718
Gacha, the girls, and the porn.

>>715484337 (OP)
Fate is only controversial because Shirou is a very love him or hate him protagonist, but the story is very good.

>>715487236
Chuunige in general is a very acquired taste.

>>715487067
fgo story is garbage

>>715487236
>>story is very good
>Stay Night is an info dump route with shit romance
>Unlimited Blade Works is unrememberable outside the whole ARCHER IS SHIROU plot
>Heaven's Feel sloppy pacing and constant rule breaking
No, it's shit. Only middle schoolers like this shit. It's not even good chunnige.

>>715484337 (OP)
>>715484370
>>715484432
>>715484518
>>715486220
The holy trinity of overrated VNs

>>715485857
Is this the cooking spinoff?

>Nobody ever talks about Clannad anymore, even in overrated threads
What the fuck happened?

>>715487535
that's not what "trinity" means sweetie
read a book

>>715486718
It's the porn, same thing that sustained Overwatch for years until the devs completely shat on that game.

Mahoyoru is where it at
Only kusogaki likes fate

>>715484337 (OP)
Muv Luv and Steins;Gate are the top two most overrated of all time.

>>715484337 (OP)
Is FSN really overrated when Not-Danganronpa outsold it 2:1?

https://x.com/ceyarma/status/1942814051983319322?s=46&t=8wSjFTcpHqoFAwJvgS5aow

>>715488005
So Danganronpa man isn't going to go bankrupt after all? Good for him.

>>715488094
Yea PCfags and Nintendofags really came together to support Kodaka. I love happy endings…

I did not enjoy any Keyge

>>715488005
100 line is a VN? I thought it was an SRPG

>>715487535
Muramasa Chads, we've succesfully dodged the bullet

>>715488473
It's a simulation VN

>>715488576
How similar is 100L to Dangan anyways? The art style is exactly the same.

>>715484337 (OP)
I won't bother naming them but there is plenty worse among the mainstream of vns.

>>715487067
>FGO story is le good.
It's the most dragged on piece of shit around.
Any other gacha would at least move onto another arc/storyline by now, hell they would've done so years ago

>>715488760
SDRP2 turned up to 11. Not V3 levels of autistic shit.

>>715487535
That's 5 visual novels though

What is the /vn/ flavor of the month now? Nobody is talking about Tokyo Necro anymore.

>>715488540
FD translation never ever

>>715489432
100 line, for the second month in a row.

>>715489432
They're shilling Hentai Prison, it looks gay

>>715484337 (OP)
Disco Elysium

Should I make a harem porn VN with crappy writing about historical myths beings made waifus and set in a modern japanese school?

Fate is pretty shitty the writing, I don't think I can't write something worse if I make the waifus hot and fuggable.

>>715489845
It's probably harder than you think.

>>715489801
This, and Expedition 33.

>>715484337 (OP)
The only big issue with FSN is that Fate and HF routes are flawed, though they are still good. UBW is peak however.

>>715485018
reminder that this guy whaled HSR to roll 6 copies of archer

>>715484337 (OP)
Subahibi

Also, anything aimed at a female audience because they literally rate everything 8+/10.

>>715484337 (OP)
Higurashi was a slog to get through.

>>715490705
Otome games are barely heard of anywhere so I don't see how that holds

>>715484337 (OP)
Pretty much all popular VNs are overrated except FSN

>>715486824
It's insane how much FGO still manages to make after all this time, with such ancient gameplay.

>>715486718
Fate has the best girls of any vn property Steins;Gate only wishes it could compete

>>715490705
Just have to score correct female ratings yourself. 8 means 1/10, 9 means 5/10, and 10 means one of the guys was hot.

>>715487192
>>715487067
Easily the best story of any gacha game, and many chapters are as good or better than top visual novels, including Nasu's previous works.

>>715484337 (OP)
Is it really overrated when no one has played it? Specially fate fans

>>715487475
>>715489001
None of you who are trying to dunk on the story know anything about FGO story. At best you are aware of early chapters.

>All these posts seething at the incontestable superiority of Fate
Have you contrarians just tried not having shit taste? All the VNs you you claim are better then F/SN are always the most horrid of turds.
>>715489845
Yeah just do it. You'll be a multi billionaire if you can do. But we all know the turd you'll shit will be so horrid not even the contrarians on this site will want to touch it.

>>715484337 (OP)
You posted it.
>>715490795
>Pretty much all popular VNs are overrated except FSN
Holy shit kill yourself.

>>715492015
I watched the anime and it was just okay. Does the VN have a better explanation for why Shinji is the most evil 'friend' in existence? That always bugged me.

>>715492126
It's true, all the murder mystery trash is autistic as shit, FSN is actually good but nobody talks about it because all they know is the gacha game

>>715489609
Is Hentai Prison a meme recommendation or is it actually good? Every single screenshot of the game I've seen was something I couldn't take seriously.

>>715492190
what are you even talking about pleb? FGO doesnt even have Shinji in the story. And you'd understand why Shinji is awful if you watched Heaven's feel. But my advice to you - don't bother since you have no attention span to follow such series.

>>715492503
>watch Heavens Feel
>watch
>saying other people have no attention span

>>715492503
my bad I thought you said FSN story not FGO. But I already watched Heaven's Feel and I get why he's a bad guy I just don't get how he's supposed to be a 'friend' to Shirou. seems like a cunt all the time. must be a jap thing

>>715486718
Easy embedded hook through the fact most people in the world know about some legend or whatsover so you want to see what they do with it even if it's complete fucking slop like Record of Ragnarok

>>715484337 (OP)
steins gate was more disappointing than fate could ever be.

>>715492609
He was good then he got worse and insecure.

>>715492609
He was never a good person but he was probably tolerable to hang around with until he started doing really evil shit in the grail war.

>>715484337 (OP)
Fate isn't overrated at all.

>>715493137
Wrong.

>>715493137
Yeah. People just have jumped on bandwagons that are artificially hyped up and play retarded horse girls, and they have to justify why their npc brains isnt following the superior series.

Most of the new shiny things are ripping off Fate all the time and making more shallow products with worse characters, stories and worldbuilding.

>>715492827
>>715492951
so around what time do you think he raped Sakura's bug pussy first?

>>715492015
>early chapters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCyqkhpm7pY

Honestly i think the lostbelts are a cool concept but i'd have to read through Observer in Timeless Temple and i reallly don't wanna do that.

>>715484337 (OP)
>visual novel
Not video games.

>>715485731
>VN audience
VNs aren't made for VN audience either
they call them "kinetic novels" now, because graphomaniacs couldn't hack out a conventional novel, but also can't manage half-decent branching

>>715484337 (OP)
That Slay the Princess and Coffin of Andy and Leyley fotm games

>>715484370
>>715484432
Thread ended right here. Also adding muramasa.

>>715490792
Otome isn't popular but it gets overrated because girls fall for bishounens so easily.

>>715493432
those arent the early chapters though

>>715494787
That's the point.

At this point FGO is way too long for anyone to catch up with besides the people who started playing the game in the first 3 years.

>>715487067
>except story
anon, I...

>>715494883
Nah, many people have started much later, even some youtubers. You can even skip story and just watch anime for part 1 and you will get 90% of whats going on. You can skip a lot then go back to reread if you want more.

>>715489845
>tranimal post
>dumb opinion
Every time.

>>715494883
all I want to know is how much story Shuten Douji gets in FGO. I like her design but I don't play gacha, i'm too irresponsible to be trusted with it

it's been 8 years since I first read the visual novel. 9 since I watched the 2004 series and got hooked on the anime. I don't think anything will ever top this as my favorite story of all time

>>715495501
She's a major character in a couple story chapters and events. Unfortunately, they're also among the worst chapters in the whole game.

>>715495526
大丈夫だよ,遠坂!
俺もこれから頑張っていくから

I really don't know what people see in muv luv. I actually like extra and unlimited, then alternative goes lets pull out all the shit we possibly can like time travel, universe hopping, esp, alien communication only to end it in the most boring ass predictable ways imagineable
>everyone will die one by one in le sad moment (insanely predictable)
>aliens are just... mining I guess. So deep
>ending is good, or bad, or who cares really. Is sumika even good? didn't that bitch put you and the entire world through a bunch of bullshit? why is she in the ending?


I just dont get it

>>715495526
Now this is a good opinion.

>>715495818
Whilst I enjoyed it, Alternative is similar to lots of 'end of series' entries, where the culmination of everything is why people enjoyed it, more than the stand alone quality of the game. Where all the answers are finally given, and proper pathos is allowed regarding the characters. I will say it's got alot going for it even in just it's presentation that was pretty breakthrough during the time of release, so it occupies a popular legacy spot.

>>715495835
It's not people who are attached to Fateshit like that are just sad and don't know any better, otherwise they'd move on to better things.

>>715496423
better like what

>>715496472
Better visual novels, like some posted in this very thread?

>>715496574
you have never understood the feeling of liking something so much that you are able to acknowledge its flaws without any negative feelings and such a mindset will lead you down a path of misery

>>715496574
what's a better visual novel than FSN?

>>715495782
Damn, so she really only got popular for her design huh? That kinda sucks, but I guess it makes it easier for me not to get engrossed in gacha stuff.

>>715484337 (OP)
Is there ANY VN that /v/ won't call overrated?
Literally every VN gets called overrated, yet almost all of the ones listed are actually just fucking good.

>>715484337 (OP)
Saber is my wife

>>715497031
mystery VNs are fucking trash

>>715496748
S;G and Clannad
>N-NO THOSE ARE TOO POPULA-
Don't care.

>>715497031
You could replace "ANY VN" with "ANY VIDEO GAME" and it would also be true, we're just on a contrarian board. It's a blessing and a curse

>>715497142
Clannad is melodramatic garbage and Steins Gate is just ok
I don't know why you'd even compare them to FSN in the first place because they aren't similar

>>715497031
monster's insight
they'll call me a shill and a poseur, the game itself trash and irrelevant
but not overrated

>>715497187
They're similarly popular perhaps

>>715497187
They don't have to be similar, I'm saying that they're better and that's the only measure I care about. Fatefags overvalue shit because there's chuuni slapped on it, like some kind of perverted and embarrassing version of the So Bad It's Good effect, except what they're reading is not actually good at all.

>>715497432
They need to be similar to be better or worse than one another you idiot

>>715497471
They're written stories retard. One has better characters than the other, one has a solid plot and the other has a shit plot. This shouldn't be hard to understand except for extra dense types.

>>715497640
They're different kinds of stories
You can compare like stories, like you can say Higurashi is better than Umineko
Saying Clannad is better than FSN is apples to oranges

>>715497730
Don't care, disingenuous fatefag.

>>715496423
>better things
I mainly read literature and I'll still vouch for FSN being better than the rest of the medium.
>It's not people who are attached to Fateshit like that are
This grammar certainly bolsters your intellectual credibility.

>>715484337 (OP)
Umineko, Muv-Luv.

Maybe it's because I'm a Fateslop consoomer myself and I see more proper critical discourse for it (Fate), but I never see that for Sea Cats.

>>715497839
You're not too bright are you

>>715497885
Clannad and SG mog this shit vn, sorry bud.

>>715497996
You're having trouble seperating facts from opinions here

>>715497471
absolutely deranged position that would be used as the reduction-to-absurd when mocking relativists

>>715498031
People have different tastes. If one person likes action and another person likes romance, you can't compare an action movie to a romance movie and say one is better than the other because they offer different things

>>715496296
I can see that, looking back on it I'd be lying if I said I didn't look back on the journey fondly even if I ended up mashing the ctrl key every time Takeru started monologuing or whining about how shit he was compared to everyone else (which was every 5 minutes).

>>715496423
>Fateshit like that are just sad and don't know any better

I just like mythology and history bro, I am also a fan of SMT. People just love the world building, concepts and setting, even if there's stories with better writing out there.

Honestly I don't even know where people get the impression that Fate fans don't have palatal variety, can you provide examples or...? As an SMT fan, I've seen that behavior in Persona fans, but people talk about it all the time with Fate fans and I just don't see it. I've seen plenty of Fate fans who've played S;G, Sea Cats, etc.

>>715498286
>I just like mythology and history
Clearly you haven't read Fate because that's not what it's about at all

>>715498319
>Clearly you haven't read Fate because that's not what it's about at all

That's exactly what Fate is about.

>>715497432
Fate is extremely light as far as chuuni is concerned. Its exceptional area is its intersection of structure, symbolism, and theming. If you want chuuni, look at Dies Irae, Blazblue, Lords of Vermilion, Code Vein, etc. But I can tell from your extreme reaction that you'll thoughtlessly write anything off as shit because there's chuuni slapped on it.

>>715498405
You have not read Fate Stay Night

>>715498434
Yes, I have.

This is not the hill you want to die on.

>>715498138
and presumably (you) are the final authority on the appropriate similarity of any two things? and anybody who brings up prose or motivations or themes or LITERALLY ANY OF THE UNDERLYING ELEMENTS OF ANY STORY can be easily dismissed by claiming the overall experience is too different to compare the details?

>>715498467
No you haven't, there's nothing about mythology or history in it at all, it's not even the setup, it's barely a footnote
Like you could say it's about the holy grail war, and you would still be wrong, but at least that's the setup and what it pretends to be about
The closest you will ever come to a historical reference in the entire VN is Saber remembering vague details of her past in a dream, but it has no context so really it could be anyone

>>715498543
What do FSN and Clannad have in common?

>>715498614
>there's nothing about mythology or history in it at all
>There's no historical or mythological figures in it.

Holy shit dude, and imagine accusing me of not having read the VN when I was referencing the Battle of Camlann you stupid fucking mongoloid.

>>715498742
There are characters with the names of historical figures in it, that's as far as it goes
I don't know how autistic you have to be to read the entire thing and think that it's about history
What were you even paying attention to during routes 2 and 3

>>715498821
>There are characters with the names of historical figures in it, that's as far as it goes

This is not FF with random summons having these names, they're intended to be fictionalized depictions of the actual historical and mythological figures.

>>715498906
Yes but 90-99% of the character is invented by the writer, they barely draw on anything historical at all
Where's the history and mythology in Shioru fighting himself from the future? Or fighting Sakura's corrupted grail clone?

>>715498646
unimpressive romance for teen boys starring incredible retard that managed to wow the audience with 3deep5u plot beats that are actually contrived nonsense if you think for two minutes about them
i am not actually invested in arguing which of the aforementioned VNs is the best, just wanted to oppose your point of THEY'RE DIFFERENT CAN'T COMPARE
once again, it's the prose, the characters, the everpresent technicalities that can and should be compared, be the genre thriller or adventure or drama

>>715499125
FSN isnt a romance novel
Comparing the technicalities doesn't give you a grasp on the quality of the whole

>>715498991
>Where's the history and mythology in Shioru fighting himself from the future? Or fighting Sakura's corrupted grail clone?

So the existence of non-historical/mythological figures in the game's story somehow means Saber isn't King Arthur almost verbatim (aside from being a woman?) You can read about the majority of the Arthurian Mythos (same with Cu and the Ulster Cycle) and they'd share more than half of their backstory with it, these are not FF summons, they are fictionalized depictions of actual mythological figures, like SMT.

>Yes but 90-99% of the character is invented by the writer

75-90% of Saber's backstory is just the Arthurian Mythos verbatim, ditto with the other servants in the game barring Archer/Shirou; Berserker's special ability is outright based on his 12 Labors. It's incredible you'd try to dispute this, absolutely retarded.

>>715484505
Its just pressing a with no meaningfull choices.

>>715499303
Yes they're mythological characters, but their mythology doesn't factor into the game at all, it's barely a footnote, it's an incredibly small part of the plot apart from Saber's post-death regrets (which was invented by the writer)
>Berserker's special ability is outright based on his 12 Labors
Yes and that's as far as it goes. You get a page or two about the backstory of the minor servants when they die and that's it - 99% of the novel is spent exploring things that have nothing to do with history

>>715484432
SPBP

>>715499452
>but their mythology doesn't factor into the game at all

You share dreams with Saber and learn more about her backstory, the mythology also plays into the servants' abilities, weaknesses and is the crux behind their NPs (a special ability representative of their lives and mythology.) Saber has to keep her sword invisible because of how iconic Excalibur is, Anon.

Imagine accusing me of having not played Fate and spouting retarded shit like this. Did you watch a fucking Gigguk video or what?

>>715495818
yeah i like alternative till the part their base gets raided by the beta. The last battle and the ending are kinda underwhelming

>>715498906
Holy shit anonymous, if you really did "like mythology and history" then maybe you'd have more to say about the fact that Fate servants have the names and that's where the resemblance ends. Like the story doesn't even try to pretend that secrecy or fame or home turf advantage even matter past the first route. The abilities and artifacts are also just random stuff, no different from FF with its excaliburs and balmungs and masamunes.
>Excalibur is invisible because wind, it's special power is shooting sword beams like in Bleach
>Heracles gets extra lives for his labours as if that was ever the deal
>Cu Chulainn just gets generic homing spear, and not war-spasm
>Medusa's main gimmick is *not* turning people to stone
>Gilgamesh is incredibly arrogant and brags of his own divinity, in direct opposition to the conclusion of his actual story also having every treasure ever is retarded
The whole pseudo-vidyagaem setup might be the worst thing, all the talk of classes and skills is pointless when everybody gets into direct confrontation anyway.

>>715499707
>the mythology also plays into the servants' abilities, weaknesses and is the crux behind their NPs
So did you skip over all the actual story parts and just watch the fight scenes like it was a shounen anime?

>>715499775
So you have no arguments and are just resorting to projection, got it.

>>715495818
>alien communication
It's funny that they brought Kasumi to the final hive for the sole purpose of establishing communication with the Superior, but apparently they didn't prepare any questions to actually ask it so Takeru ends up spending most of the precious little time they had sperging about how they don't see them as living beings (something already well known). By the time he realizes "wait a minute if we get the BETA to see humans as living beings they'll leave us alone" Meiya is getting raped by tentacles and begging him to kill her

>>715499932
You have the most surface level interpretation of this possible. Like Hercules's ultimate is called 12 labours and he did 12 labours in the legend... wow. That's where the fucking similiarities end, it's literally just the name. That's how it is for almost anything, only Saber's history is ever brought up in any meaningful fashion and even then it's so vague that the historical context doesn't matter at all. Did you really sit through an 80 hour visual novel, where the last half has literally nothing to do with any historical characters, and come away from it saying that it's about history and mythology? What the fuck am I reading?

>>715489609
what the fuck is this dogshit

I haven't read many but i would say Fata Morgana. I remember when it was released some people claiming it was "the best video game story since Planescape:Torment" or other bizarre stuff like that. I like its presentation (OST and character design) but the writing is far from being that good.

Tohsaka's anus.

>>715484337 (OP)
Tsukihime; it's rated higher but is no better

>>715500093
>Like Hercules's ultimate is called 12 labours and he did 12 labours in the legend... wow.

The 12 Labors are generally considered to be the most significant part in Hercule's life, retard. Being a reductionist fuckwit doesn't invalidate that. You may as well try to diminish the significance of the Battle of Camlann or the Pulling of the Sword from the Stone to Saber's identity.

>Wow dude, she just pulled a sword from the stone? Doesn't mean anything bro.

>>715500306
>>Wow dude, she just pulled a sword from the stone? Doesn't mean anything bro.
That's literally correct, it means absolutely nothing to the story of FSN. Neither do the circumstances of her death, all that matters is that she died and she had regrets. Literally all the things that actually matter about these mythological characters were invented by the author. And again, what about the other two routes? You did read them right? Do you know what happens in them?

>>715500306
you seem legit idiotic, like a clinical idiot
you do know hercules wasn't promised a mario shroom every time he did the king a favor?
a more appropriate noble phantasm would be the trophies he got out of (some of) his labours, like the poison-blood and the hide

>>715500389
>That's literally correct, it means absolutely nothing to the story of FSN

It means absolutely fucking everything because if Saber didn't pull the sword from the stone, she wouldn't be King Arthur or become a servant, she wouldn't possess Excalibur or Avalon (which is what fucking saves Shirou's life and is what is keeping him alive), she wouldn't meet Shirou and wouldn't be in the story to begin with either, stop posting.

>>715500494
>Significant part of a servant's life, is represented physically by their abilities and NP (thus it is also significant to the story of Fate.)

Don't bother trying to argue when you have no clue what you're talking about, ESL.

>>715500496
Saber could have been some other mythological figure other than King Arthur and it would not have changed the story one iota. Their backgrounds are just used as names and vague themes, Excalibur was not a beam weapon in legend and Avalon was not some health regenerating shield, this was made up by the author
I can understand that maybe you like this kind of surface level historical themed servant battle stuff, but the battles are only dressing for the actual story, history plays no role in the story, at all. I'll ask you again, did you actually read the second and third routes?

>>715500657
>Saber could have been some other mythological figure other than King Arthur and it would not have changed the story one iota

>The character who is responsible for the protagonist's survival and continued existence if swapped wouldn't have changed the story one iota.

Stop posting.

>>715500568
>is represented physically by their abilities and NP
"is represented inaccurately" you mean
would you excuse anything so long as the number 12 was involved?

>>715500710
The character was invented by the author. The character is not King Arthur. The character is an original character
I can't tell if you're dishonest or stupid, you don't seem stupid, maybe you just skipped over 90% of the novel but in that case you should just say so

>>715500735
>is represented inaccurately
In what regard? Hercules is a demi-god and is well known for his durability.

If we went by his actual mythology 1:1 with no anime artistic liberties, he would've just been a strong barbarian/generic hero with nothing in the way of unique abilities or characteristics

>>715500805
>The character was invented by the author
No, she was not, she is a pre-existing character who Nasu did his own spin on (a common thing for mythological figures btw), he also intended for her to King Arthur (as a girl) from the start and that is exactly what she is.

She is not a wholly original character, stop posting.

>>715501023
>he also intended for her to King Arthur (as a girl) from the start and that is exactly what she is.

Barring Prototype because I know your weasel ass will try to zero in on the slip here.

>>715501023
Nothing about Saber's actual character, who she is, her personality, her motivations, have anything to do with King Arthur. You could say it's a spin on mythology, but the mythology only exists to lend names to magic spells. I'll ask you again, did you read the second and third routes?

>>715501103
>Nothing about Saber's actual character, who she is, her personality, her motivations, have anything to do with King Arthur

It's time to stop posting, Anon.

>>715484337 (OP)
How would you know? You haven't read it.

>>715501134
I accept your concession then

>>715501167
Nobody will agree with you and more than likely think you're completely fucking retarded.

I made my case well while you continued to be a bad faith weasel as per usual for this shithole.

>>715500834
i did bring up a better gear for hercules earlier, if you actually wanna read before replying for a change
>anime artistic liberties
yeah, the whole concept of servants that have very little in common with mythological figures they allegedly represent
i know this happens with every pop culture remix, but "too human" fans tend to have the awareness not to claim their story is "accurate" and not completely different

hey, wanna hear a fun fact that you could've used in your defense, but didn't since you actually know fuck all? heracles is one of the few heroes whose fault is not "hubris" but "wrath", which is actually appropriate for a raging berserker sort of fighter
that's actually a decent remix, unlike getting extra lives

>>715501208
bad faith weasel? I ask you questions and you refuse to answer. Either because you're lying or you know you can't

>>715501224
>yeah, the whole concept of servants that have very little in common with mythological figures they allegedly represent

Most mythological figures are essentially nothing more than straightforward militiamen and or fighters with great feats (in terms of strength, possessing a magical weapon, etc.) There's exceptions of course, but this is the norm.

>hey, wanna hear a fun fact that you could've used in your defense, but didn't since you actually know fuck all?

Well yeah, I didn't Google it just now like you did.

>heracles is one of the few heroes whose fault is not "hubris" but "wrath", which is actually appropriate for a raging berserker sort of fighter
that's actually a decent remix, unlike getting extra lives

Correct, he was afflicted with madness (or rage), which is why he went on his 12 Labors in the first place, it still remains the most significant event in his life.

>>715484337 (OP)
can you call it overrated when no one ever talks about how good the visual novel itself was?
it was the lore and magic system that was cool.

>>715501440
have you been diagnosed with autism?

>>715501507
What's the issue, retard?

If you want to exchange ideas, I'll oblige, that's the whole point of discussion.

>>715501536
You don't seem to want to exchange ideas when they prove you wrong

>>715501586
Not a single thing you or the other guy contributed proved me wrong in any way.

>>715501619
Did you read the second and third routes of FSN?

>>715501208
He is right, she is not like King Arthur of any story. Proto Arthur is much more like what King Arthur should be and actually had kids. (not Morgan)

>>715501659
Yes, I also don't say retarded shit such as claiming Saber has nothing to do with King Arthur.

>>715501682
Can you tell me how big a role historical and mythological themes played in these routes or the characters in these routes?

>>715501675
>He is right
He is wrong and a retarded, but I wouldn't dispute that Prototype had more in common with the mythological figure relative to Saber.

Although I would question that (partially) because his Merlin was a woman.

>>715501440
>Most mythological figures are essentially nothing more than straightforward militiamen
HUH SO MAYBE THE WHOLE PREMISE OF ANIME FIGHTERS WITH SPECIAL WEAPONS AND UNIQUE ABILITIES IS KINDA FLAWED TO BEGIN WITH
nigger that's what me and the other anon are keep shouting about, fate is not about myths nor heroes, that's set dressing used for anime fights
>didn't Google it just now like you did
>you did
el-em-ay-o
i hope that conveyed the difference between our powerlevels clearly
just say you don't care about accuracy to millenia old myths and don't embarass yourself further

>>715484337 (OP)
Danganronpa and Steins;Gate are the most overrated pieces of shit I've been memed into playing.

>>715501787
>el-em-ay-o
>i hope that conveyed the difference between our powerlevels clearly
>just say you don't care about accuracy to millenia old myths and don't embarass yourself further

The fact you didn't bring the point up from outset clearly showed you more than likely did ad-hoc research on the topic and didn't have the knowledge beforehand.

>HUH SO MAYBE THE WHOLE PREMISE OF ANIME FIGHTERS WITH SPECIAL WEAPONS AND UNIQUE ABILITIES IS KINDA FLAWED TO BEGIN WITH
nigger that's what me and the other anon are keep shouting about, fate is not about myths nor heroes, that's set dressing used for anime fights

Flaws? This has nothing to do with anything, ESL.

>>715501787
I think he's just really autistic and is completely unable to understand subtext and just sees anime fights with mythological names and thinks that's what the VN is about

>>715501935
>Subtext

The mythological figures and servants are the crux to what constitutes Fate, retard.

>>715501986
Like I said, unable to understand subtext
The story at its core is about Shirou, his personal growth and relationships
The backstory is about the Holy Grail war and the scheming of mages
The setting is a detailed world where magic exists and has all these rules and facets
The fact that the servants are historical figures is a footnote in the setting, you might personally enjoy this but it plays no factor into the story at all, the only two main characters who are mythological characters are Saber and Gilgamesh. Saber is 90% an original character. Gilgamesh is 99% an original character
That's the reason you won't answer my question - because you know that past the Saber route it has absolutely nothing to do with mythology

>>715502138
>The story at its core is about Shirou, his personal growth and relationships

It's also about the Holy Grail War, they're not mutually exclusive.

>The backstory is about the Holy Grail war and the scheming of mages

The actual (concurrent) story is about these things as well, not just the backstory.

>The fact that the servants are historical figures is a footnote in the setting

Imagine going this hard to completely diminish Saber's significance in the plot and to Shirou. You're telling me the story is about his relationships but at the same time trying to argue that Saber herself is of no importance and that the story would not change "one iota" if she was removed/swapped (desperately trying to disregard Avalon), incredible.
Stop posting.

>>715502138
that nigger probably thinks Star Wars is about lightsabers

>>715484337 (OP)
truth nuke TAIMU
>Fate/stay night
Shirou’s preachy af, slow routes, cringy h-scenes, super dated vibes.
>STEINS;GATE
Snooze-fest start, Okabe’s chuuni spam, fake science, rushed True End.
>Grisaia no Kajitsu -LE FRUIT DE LA GRISAIA-
Endless common route, Yuuji’s boring, art’s off, drags like crazy.
>Umineko no Naku Koro ni
Too damn long, plot’s a mess, no answers.
>G-senjou no Maou
Lame twin twist, Kyousuke’s bipolar, talks down to you, plot falls apart.
>Super Dangan Ronpa 2 Sayonara Zetsubou Gakuen
Chiaki’s mid, cast’s flat, island’s meh, sloppy mysteries, weak boss.
>CLANNAD
Big-eye art, no gameplay, samey routes, sappy manipulation.
>Muv-Luv Alternative
Boring Extra, melodrama overload, plot holes, dated sprites, weak sci-fi.

>>715502138
>>715502390
Just chiming in to say this is a retarded flame war between two extremely superficial people. For one, the myths serve a role of creating context for the characters. Fate doesn't need to reference it all because it already exists. Secondly, the author has artistic license to abstract things like the Twelve Labors for their own purposes, and those divergences and their rationale are what must be noted. While Medusa never rode Bellerophon, she birthed it when Perseus decapitated her, which is reenacted when she slits her own throat, for example. Thirdly, the idea it needs to be accurate is in disregard to how many conflicting versions these myths have had over the centuries as other authors repurposed them in the aforementioned ways. As Excalibur has multiple different origin stories, Fate synthesizes them with Caliburn pulled from the stone and Excalibur given from the lake. Gilgamesh directly references syncretism when he uses Gram, which should make it pretty clear that Fate's interpretations turn the essential into the actual if God Hand and Rule Breaker being explicitly symbolic didn't. I'm not familiar enough with the relevant myths to argue one way or the other how faithfully they're handled, but I doubt either of you are instead.

>>715502451
Baldr Sky beats them all.

>>715502472
>Just chiming in to say this is a retarded flame war between two extremely superficial people.
Faggot.

Otherwise good contribution, but given the retard I'm talking to, he'd try to dispute your post.

>>715502451
You're not wrong, though it's probably poor form to complain about so many highly rated vns.

>>715502390
Saber is a major plot character, but her being King Arthur means nothing, her background has King Arthur could be switched out with another historical character or no historical character and it wouldn't make a difference to her as a character, which you don't seem to understand. It's like changing the name of a character, it's just a name, it's not the character. The legend of King Arthur isn't really woven into her character. Her backstory is she has regrets about the live she lived when she died, but that could really be anyone

>>715502561
>but her being King Arthur means nothing
I literally said it does and gave the reasoning why.

It's time to stop posting.

>>715484337 (OP)
umineko is the king. total dogshit that goes on about 200 hours longer than it needed to, with a terrible ending


>>715484370
fpbp

>>715502583
No you didn't. You said Saber was important, and I agree. Sabar being King Arthur is not important. The legend of King Arthur doesn't uniquely shape her character. It shapes her character more than any other servant but her backstory is still vague enough that it could literally be any legend

>>715502637
>Not one acknowledgement of the points I actually made.

Last (you.)

>>715502653
What points? Are you seriously autistic? You're terrible at communicating, you cannot put yourself in the mind of another person at all

>>715502451
what vn do you like

>>715502472
Yeah, the myths also play a part in foreshadowing Archer's origin without feeling like a last minute asspull.

>>715502451
>super dated vibes
is this a negative?

>>715502726
the one VN to rule them all

>>715502816
>Ace Attorney hasn't been mentioned in the thread yet
Nick WON

>>715502682
>muh avalon

>>715503092
What about Avalon? It's her sword sheath that makes Shirou regenerate. That has literally nothing to do with the legend, swap out the legend for something else and rename Avalon to something else and it's exactly the same shit, that's the whole point, the legends only serve as vague themes for the characters

>>715502472
>For one, the myths serve a role of creating context for the characters.

This is correct, and it serves as a means of fleshing out their backstories.

>Fate doesn't need to reference it all because it already exists.

Unless directly clarified, you can generally go with the assumption that certain mythological characteristics would be true for the characters, even if not specified.

>Thirdly, the idea it needs to be accurate is in disregard to how many conflicting versions these myths have had over the centuries as other authors repurposed them in the aforementioned ways.

I would disagree in that each and every single mythological depiction overtly contradicts the other, many of them tend to have certain qualities in common, it's not an 'ontological free-for-all', so this is wrong. This would apply to Fate as well, and I don't think it is totally inaccurate, they're for the most part 'in-line' with what is to be expected of the figures (King Arthur's Excalibur, Hercules' Durability and Physical Prowess, Cu's Gáe Bolg, Medusa's Eyes etc.)

>Gilgamesh directly references syncretism when he uses Gram

Syncretism isn't necessarily a strictly defined set of religious beliefs, it just means the melding of different beliefs, this is a strange thing to say.

>but I doubt either of you are instead

I mean desu, I could've clarified further examples, but in my view it's something of a waste of time when everyone on this site argues in a reductive way and just dismisses every single thing you say, it's better to keep a simple approach and limit yourself to 2 examples.
Anyways I felt bad and wanted to effort post myself since I still enjoy the discussion.

>>715503247
yeah i'm not that anon I think he's actually done, i was just looking at the argument and thought he was being autistic about avalon being referenced. I understand the point you're trying to make about the myths having little importance to the theme of FSN. To me they've always just been fun references to point at, but I haven't seen what they do with the myths beyond FSN

>>715503247
>That has literally nothing to do with the legend
>As Merlin tells Arthur, “… the scabbard is worth ten of the sword. While ye have the scabbard upon you, ye shall never lose any blood, be ye ever so sorely wounded. Therefore always keep the scabbard with you.” – ‘Le Morte d’Arthur’.

>>715503394
>everyone on this site argues in a reductive way and just dismisses every single thing you say
That's hilarious coming from the guy who literally ignores people who dare challenge his perspective

>>715503493
Alright, we've got one reference, so what? Does excalibur shoot laser beams? This is all incredibly surface level stuff and you think that's what the story is about. It's not what the story is about and it's not what the setting is about. You KNOW if you've read the VN that this is like 1% of the content

What a shit thread.

>>715503587
>Alright, we've got one reference, so what? Does excalibur shoot laser beams?
>Then he drew out Excalibur, that gave light like 30 torches and blinded his enemies. He put them aback and slew much enemies.

Yes, happy now, faggot?

>>715503759
Okay that's two
Do you want me to ask you about UBW and Heavens Feel again so you can ignore the question?

>>715503806
>Okay that's two
Holy reductionism.

>>715484337 (OP)
Muv Luv Alternative

>>715503612
Someone should turn this argument into a VN. I dunno if I've ever seen two or more anons be so simultaneously right and wrong at the same time while talking past each other on a fundamental level.

>>715503821
I'm being reductionist by saying you provided two examples when you provided two examples? You are literally ignoring my point because you know it'd prove you wrong. Cowardly display from someone who accuses other people of being dismissive

>>715503960
You have the effort post from the Anon above that already contributes many examples of proper references to mythology and their demonstration in servant abilities?

At what point does it become 'enough'?

>>715504030
At what point do you stop trying to make your own point which I don't really disagree with and acknowledge my point? I never said anything about it being inaccurate, I said it wasn't what the fucking VN was about

Which of these should I read first? Which of these should I not read at all?

13 Sentinels
Ace Attorney 3
Anthology of the Killer
Busty Detective
Chaos;Head
Corpse Party
Danganronpa Another 1+2
Forest
Hanachirasu
Hundred Line
Kara no Shoujo
Kikokugai
Kira Kira
Last Window: The Secret of Cape West
Redaction of the Golden Witch
Red, Blue and Green
The Centennial Case : A Shijima Story
Time Hollow
Trace Memory

>>715502451
It's a sin to criticize Muv-Luv without mentioning the idiotic protagonist who spends the entire game talking about "muh resolve" and experiencing tragedies, yet still manages to remain a pathetic crybaby that needs handholding until the very end.

>>715504226
>Busty Detective
Do this one. No, I haven't read it. But the premise is intriguing.

>>715504132
>I said it wasn't what the fucking VN was about

Do you think that the VN being about Shirou and his relationships and also being about the HGW and servants are mutually exclusive? It might help to realize a story can be about multiple things, just like how LOTR is about the One Ring and the Fellowship, they're not in diametric opposition with each other.

I wouldn't dispute that the VN is about Shirou, it is, but it's also about the servants, the HGW and by extension, mythological figures.

>>715504285
>f95zone busty-detective-the-case-files-of-aine-tamagushi-final-hurricane
It's this. Seems to literally just be a VN about Hestia solving crimes and breasting boobily

>>715504298
Well now you're backpedalling, of course the story is about multiple things, mostly it's about magic, Shirou, and the Holy Grail War. The mythlogical references are just that, themes for the abilities of servants. Outside of the few points about Saber we've already discussed they don't have plot relevance. Like nothing about Gilgamesh's mythology is relevant to who he is at all, and he's really the only other main character in FSN who is a mythological hero
You might personally enjoy this part, but if that's the only thing you like then you're going to spend 90% of your time fast fowarding discussions about magic

>>715504471
>Well now you're backpedalling
At no point did I dispute that the story wasn't about Shirou.
>Like nothing about Gilgamesh's mythology is relevant to who he is
And at what point does it become relevant to who he is and by extension, to the story?
You're just going to keep elevating the qualifiers, are the servants not relevant to the plot? Because I am pretty sure they are. And at the same time, at what point is it agreed that the servants are indeed those mythological figures?
Where do we draw the line here?

>>715504673
If you can swap out the myth behind the character and the story would stay the same then the myth isn't relevant to the character

>>715485235
I know this is outdated because Kancolle is dead

>>715504834
Removing the myth would transform the character (the myth serves as a context for their backstory, their equipment, abilities and who they are ontologically as people), and by extension, it'd change the story, if you change that context of the character, it'd logically follow that it'd change the character themselves (personality, abilities as previously mentioned.)

Saber is not Saber if she is not King Arthur, that literally shapes who she is and what she is capable of.

>>715505568
That's the thing, none of these characters have personalities derived from myth, myths don't usually even specify what they're like as people. Their personalities are made up. In the case of Gilgamesh his personality seems the opposite of what you might expect
Their abilities are just anime battle abilities that are vaguely themed off stuff from their legend
Would the plot change is Gilgamesh was some other old tyrant? Would it change if Caster or Lancer or Berserker was some other character completely? It wouldn't change at all
Fate Zero goes harder with giving the servants historical resonating personalities but in FSN you can mostly take it or leave it

>>715485018
Archer carries the story.

>>715484337 (OP)
Subahibi is the most overrated vn and it's not close.

>>715484337 (OP)
FSN isn't overrated

>>715485018
Reminder that Redman is right about literally every single thing he says.

>>715484337 (OP)
It's probably Doki Doki Literature Club even though I do like it

>>715503394
>each and every single mythological depiction
I didn't go that far.
>many of them tend to have certain qualities in common
Hence why I said the differences are the part that must be clarified.
>it just means the melding of different beliefs
Yes, that's how I used it.
>in my view it's something of a waste of time
But all your other posts so far aren't? My "effort post" probably didn't take any longer to write than those, certainly not all of them, and organizing my thoughts alone is more rewarding than any response, so of course I'm going to doubt you. The myths are all tools accessory to the driving force of the story, which is Shirou & co. The legacy and philosophies they represent which Shirou inherits are relevant, but the story isn't "about" them any more than it's about cooking.

>>715503523
You're evidently doing the same thing.

>>715505981
>Caster
I can jump in here again because it's extremely straightforward and I actually know a lot about Medea. Yes, it's actually very important that the witch who was taken from her homeland and discarded by a womanizer, famous for murdering her own children to spite him in one interpretation, bears a knife that breaks contracts and finds refuge with a man in an alien land who understands her homesickness with unconditional benevolence. It's similarly very relevant that Medusa, who was turned into a monster after being raped by the insecure younger brother of the three chief Olympians, is summoned by a woman who was turned into a monster after being raped by the insecure younger brother of the three founding families.
>Gilgamesh
There are more important things than plot. The story *explicitly* states why the choice of the oldest myth known to man was important for that role.
>Lancer or Berserker
I don't actually know much about these two, but conversely, can you name any other characters who could fill the role with equal or greater accuracy? IIRC you already conceded why Heracles is uniquely suited to the Berserker class. If you can't make a specific counterargument like that, your argument doesn't even have a premise to stand on. You're just casting doubt on the concept in bad faith the same way the other anon is taking it in blind faith.

Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. You haven't read any of these myths and you haven't read Fate either. How the fuck are you two still repeating yourselves back and forth after 3 hours?

>>715509205
These juxtapositions add implicit elements of the themes of the mythology they borrow from. It's an ancient storytelling method.

>>715508046
b8 his entire motivation was based on his misremembering why he put himself through so much lol

>>715504226
>that VN
The most unforgettable horror porn game I've ever played. No other game had a bunch of elementary schoolers gangbang a teenage girl against a wall. And the teenage girl loved it. No other game I've played had a 17 year old bishonen guy drink a 14 year old girl's piss and chase her down the hall to rape her, only to wind up getting anally raped by a 32 year old fat man. I still remember the scene where a 16-17 girl was hiding under a bed as her same age best friend was having sex with that same 32 year old fat guy on top. She heard every moan, bed shake and sound. In the wrong end she was discovered under the bed by her friend and made to join. A most terrifying scene was when an unwilling girl relives another girl's sex memories. The girl in the memory consented but the reliving girl didn't. It didn't matter that she was mentally screaming, her body in the memory did all the motions and actions as in history. It's like mind control rape except the victim was fully aware. Another scene the same girl and a friend were almost raped in a magic sex ritual, saved by the girl's older sister, and the backlash made the older sister want to rape her younger sister and friend.

The loli in this pic is freakishly lewd and once disguised herself as a teenage girl, fucked a boy until he nearly came, transformed back saying
>You thought you were having sex with a highschooler weren't you? I'm an elementary schooler all along!
And leglocks that boy, forcing him to cum inside her unprotected, when he screams in fear upon learning this. This isn't even getting into the tentacles, the gay sex, the lesbian sex, the incest, the sequel's mother/daughter lesbian scene, etc. The first chapter alone contains lots of lesbian sex scenes with an unavoidable girl masturbating in the bathroom. Truly horror is intrinsically connected with sexuality.

Unsurpassed

>>715509563
No, he thinks it will end up exactly the same, but he'll give it a shot.

>>715498431
>you want chuuni, look at Dies Irae
No. That VN has no scenes where you rape Reinhard.

>>715509614
I got to the blonde girl route and I stopped playing. I just didn't really care about all the mystique that much. Dies Irae is fun but I felt like it started taking itself too seriously. Just pretend they beat the big bad on Kei route.

Shirou’s not a normal man in any route. In Fate, he’s satisfied with his time with Saber, nothing else to say and no words lost. Him seeking Avalon isn't because he lacked anything from his time with her. He is fulfilled in life and pursues her even after a life without regrets. Even in the event he doesn't reach Avalon, he's still completely satisfied with his time with her and can live his life doing whatever he wishes without wishing he did anything with Saber differently.

UBW has Shirou still go for the ideals even knowing blindly following them will lead to problems. His confrontation with Archer alone leads him to never become like Archer and he fins fulfillment there. Even Archer never says that the ideals are wrong. They aren’t. Seeking a future where you can save everyone is not a wrong choice. Yes you will almost certainly fail, but the key point is simple: it is not wrong to try. Archer never mocks the ideal, only Shirou’s broken devotion to it. It is that broken damaged psyche that causes the most danger in seeking the ideal, not the ideal itself. This is what Shirou recognizes he needs to fix, his martyr complex which leads to trying to protect Saber in Fate even when by all accounts he should be protected.

In HF Shirou is still incapable of finding any happiness or fulfillment on his own. He just chooses his immediate people instead of a wider group. All that's changed is scope, not what he seeks or what he will try to do. He's helping out with improving Fuyuki with Issei and the others but he's still continuously seeking to help others because he isn't even functional alone. HF Shirou knows he's like Kotomine except Kotomine only finds joy from other people's suffering. HF Shirou is fundamentally still this broken person who'll never find any happiness on his own and that part of him will probably never change. In all routes, he lacks any ability to be fulfilled alone and must find happiness in the happiness of others.

>>715508046
Redman is a broken person and states he wants to destroy his former self's near-suicidal mental state which he believe lead him to his current state. In truth, even his criticisms are aimed more at Shirou than the ideals. They’re copied, borrowed, stupidly idealistic. But pay attention to Archer every time he rants. He never says that the ideals are wrong, because they aren’t. Seeking a future where you can save everyone is not a wrong choice. Yes you will almost certainly fail, but the key point is simple: it is not wrong to try. The hardest person to lie to is yourself. And Archer never mocks the ideal, only Shirou’s broken devotion to it. It is that broken damaged psyche that causes the most danger in seeking the ideal, not the ideal itself. In other words, just because you’re correct doesn’t mean you’re right.

In the end, UBW Shirou comes to an almost Nietzschean answer that yes he might fail to reach those ideals but he will no longer do it just out of his broken metal state. The ideals themselves are beautiful and he finds meaning in this pursuit and struggle for them. Nietzsche once claimed that the ends are less important than the means. UBW Shirou embraces his ideal and pursues it not because he thinks it is achievable (he admits that to Archer) but because the act of pursuit is in itself a worthy cause. UBW Shirou does what he does because he wants to do what he does.

Ironically, Shirou Emiya is tons more Nietzschean than Ren Fuji ever was in spite of Dies Irae's far greater focus on Nietzschean philosophy.

>>715484432
/thread

>>715484337 (OP)
Grisaia

>>715509614
>no rape
Disgusting and anti-Japan. The only good thing is Rot Spinne. The VN's takes on Nietzsche are shallow and barely relevant, Masada more or less shoves fancy terms without further meaning. I could've redeemed itself if there was the option to rape one of the most historically rapeble wide hips in the universe but Masada is an anti-rapist.

>>715484337 (OP)
The sequel is better.

>>715509614
Is it time to post Muramasa oyakodon?

>>715509598
Is all of that in the first game? Or one of the sequels?

>>715509989
From what I know of the franchise, it's a mixed version of several games. The gif came from the sequel which is mostly a series of disconnected what-ifs and alternative universes, and continuations of bad ends. Only the prologue and epilogue of the sequel is relevant and leads to the 3rd game, which sucks.

>>715505981
>Fate Zero goes harder with giving the servants historical resonating personalities
Far from it. Urobitchi's takes are often really, really, almost backwards wrong.

For example, IRL Alexander is fascinating because it's one of the few time where real life follows a typical tragic arc of triumph and downfall from hubris. He inherited what was the best military machine and professional army in the ancient world and used it to great effect. Then got lost in his own PR and began displeasing his more sober greek circle by adopting the god-king trappings of asian kings and causing ever worsening moments of friction. He started getting rid of those very same people, chief among them Parmenion, and replacing them with loyalists and leading to ever tougher battles as the cohesion of his army further degraded. All this led to the mutiny at Hyphasis and his attempt to pull another stunt like the one at Opis, yet this time the speech failed to convince anybody and he had to give in to his army.

Uro took all his greater flaws and made his character revolve chiefly around them, except he claimed they were his chief virtues instead and what drove his success. All the stuff that made Alexander into Alexander is missing, and instead the character is about all the stuff that led to the end of his campaign but with the author claiming it didn't. And when challenged on this making no sense in-story, his answer consists of showing a Noble Phantasm whose entire premise is the exact opposite of what actually happened. If he had somehow claimed this was Alexander who was recorded somewhere around the time of Opis it would have made at least a bit of sense, but it would have still been ridiculous to pretend that this was a stunt that worked more than once and then fell flat when he tried to pull it again

>>715510190
Tell me about your feelings on Muramasa. I still don't know what to think of all the weird family shit. I don't know what that part of the story is trying to tell me. I get the WW2 and atomic bomb allegories loud and clear, those themes are quite overt. I think Saya no Uta has some room for clever interpretations.

Retroactively, many of Zero's servants don't make much sense. Lancelot's Knight of Honor is from looting tons of weapons as he fought or using a stick to kill a knight and out of Urobutchi's fetish for guns. But in-universe, there are many Servants with stories of using improvised weapons that don't get an A+ NP from it. Sir Gawain used a table-sized chessboard as a shield once, Musashi's story of using an oar, etc. There are many stories of heroes using improvised weapons or needing to loot because their weapon broke during combat. Lancelot's the only one who gets a NP of it and it's ranked higher than Gae Bolg and straight up legendary weapons.

>>715510190
Don't forget the whole marching his soldiers through the hellish Gedrosian desert after his soldiers forced him to stop his campaign into India.

>>715510269
>rape
Good

>>715510529
>Musashi's story of using an oar
I was disappointed when that didn't come up in her berserker variant. Big missed opportunity, and one ascension even wields a similarly-sized greatsword.

Fraudahn a shit

Routelets need love too.

>>715511396
>played a good amount of VNs
>have yet to play one where my favorite girl is the true route
>always have to trudge through knowing that route's girl will never be topped

Read otomege

>>715485784
It's dogshit

>>715485784
/hsrg/ hates it
/hig/ /gig/ and others bock mocks hsr for it
It's seen as a lazy asset flip with probably the least engaging Holy Grail War ever. They phoned in this one.

Read superhuman

>>715485847
Is it gay to impregnate the tomboy?

>>715512059
>They phoned in this one.
Name one thing Mihoyo isn't phoning in recently.
They somehow bent reality where Genshin gets the most effort these days.

>>715485784
Guy who visits the /vg/ HSR general here, and checks Twitter, even Facebook and Reddit, and tons of other forums to check the feedback, it's near-universally panned as a low-effort lazy asset flip. A common criticism is how Genshin temporary areas are given far more effort. Just look at these posts for a common repeated theme

https://boards.4chan.org/vg/thread/530909241/#530914715
https://boards.4chan.org/vg/thread/530918910/#530919635

>>715512113
B-But muh Part 2!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHwm8EUFJj0

>>715510529
>Sir Gawain used a table-sized chessboard as a shield once
A defensive counterpart of that NP would be pretty cool indeed.

>>715512385
>bottom
what part of liyue is this

>FSN doesn't have an Illya route
Of course it's overrated.

>>715511856
Which one? Why?

>>715484337 (OP)
Yeah, it's definitely the weakest TypeMoon VN

>>715513305
and thats a good thing, that cunt was pure evil as you can see in all the bad ends where she horribly tortures people for fun

>>715513813
NTA but that's due to her thinking she was abandoned by her dad in favor of Shirou. Once she learns that Shirou is actually an autist with a savior complex she rethinks her whole view on the situation...although maybe some character traits are too deeply engrained at that point.

>>715513813
I can fix her. Did you not do HF?

>>715513813
All of the Mages are evil.

>>715513813
bro she didn't even kill 1% as many people as Sakura

>>715510720
I can see it.

>>715514354
I can too. That line will probably never leave my head.
>"What are you doing?!"
>"I'm raping you."

>>715484370
FPBP
Umineko was the hugest example of wasted potential for me. Higurashi is 10x better in comparison.

>>715484337 (OP)
No one is allowed to be cool except Shirou
It fucking sucks
Didn't read btw I just watched the animes

>>715516365
gay bulge was cool though

>>715516365
>Kirei isn't cool

>>715496472
Dies Irae

>>715516696
Dies Irae is incredibly derivative.

>>715516808
Yeah but it leans hard into what it does well, which is absolute chuuni bullshit

>>715516808
Yes but that's also the core of its greatness.

>>715516894
>>715516896
I like it and think it's fun, but it's hard to call it better as a result.

>>715485464
>muv luv (this is actually good but extra was painful)
only ntr addicted cucks still like muvluv after that shitty ending

>>715516972
No, I mean it's actually made better when you compare it to the shit it copies (mostly FSN, as it turns out) because the differences themselves make it interesting. It would be total doodoo if it wasn't derivative.

>>715504226
chaos head is basically 4chan: the visual novel. Really interesting and has a protagonist with an actual personality.

Bump

>>715484337 (OP)
House of woka Morgana is by far the most over rated

>>715484337 (OP)
sex

I LOVE FATE

FAR SIDE DOKO??

>>715485018
Unlimited smug works

>>715509614
It has high highs, but the pacing is glacial and Kasumi should has been removed from the game, what a boring charater.

>>715485018
I don't like agreeing with REDMAN but he's right

It makes him what?

>>715487067
>>715492015
It's deep if you're 5, probably. Case in point, you don't know how to form plurals yet and still think they're possessives.

>>715484337 (OP)
Yes, Fata Morgana and Steins;Gate.

>>715484337 (OP)
Sakura is my wife.

>>715484337 (OP)
It’s stein’s gate

>>715498906
Stop trying man this is fucking cringe, like half of fate is OC shit and I’m not even referring to “historical figure that’s so completely rewritten and purposely contrasted with their historical depiction to where it is effectively an OC” I mean explicitly OC

>>715500306
The 12 labors myth has nothing to do with his shounen ability besides the number 12

>>715529253
atilla being a woman who is actually a space alien meant to destroy literally everything is the weirdest one

why is tamamo an aspect of amaterasu?
okay, nasu
you're japanese so you're allowed to butcher your own myths

>>715529431
Tamamo is also the meteor that killed the dinosaurs or whatever

>>715529495
dammit, nasu

>>715528887
We know, Shinji.

>>715529864
How do they explain this?
>Oh yeah, Sakura's adopted
>We've actually been together for a long while now

>>715529431
You need to turn your brain off for anything Extra or FGO. They threw consistency out the window a long time ago. Even a fucking satellite from 1977 can be a servant.

I hate Extra and its stupid servants. It was the slippery slope that derailed the entire franchise.

>>715530118
Voyager is more befitting of servant status than a good portion of the cast

>>715485784
the characters and kits themselves feel like they put a lot of love into them. i really like how the art they chose for their light cones were Saber and Archer's emotional cruxes of their lives. The actual collab story itself is terrible, mainly in writing and pacing.
Suffers from being too short and it feels like Saber and Archer are just there without any significance. Lancer has like 5 lines of dialogue at best
the story starts with getting trapped in a noble phantasm, followed by getting trapped in another noble phantasm and it feels draining despite being such a short story
TLDR character good writing bad. feels like they put most of the budget into advertising. I don't know how they announced this last year and this was the story we got

>>715529864
>ywn be invited by Shinji to gangbang Sakura

>>715529949
They are just very close.
>>715530412
He's Sakura's exclusive property.

>>715484432
Steins;Gate is better than Fate in every way, kill yourself.

i first discovered fate from a funny rule34 image

>>715484337 (OP)
Fate is based though

>>715501675
Saber is clearly inspired by Tennyson's take on Arthur.

>>715484337 (OP)
Muv Luv, and Rance to some degree.

>>715484337 (OP)
I don't think there has ever once been a game I liked of any genre that /v/ hasn't called overrated.

>>715531929
Nobody really calls Katawa Shoujo overrated anymore. I liked that.

>>715513813
I genuinely like Prisma version of Illya more than normal Illya. She always just seemed absurdly evil to me.

i want both illyas in my bed at the same time. the cute little sister and the teasing big sister

The only good thing to come out of Zero was Irisviel.

>>715486037
Saber has been thrown out for the new hotness (other Sabers) for years now

>>715484337 (OP)
Easy, Umineko, Steins;Gate, Higurashi, Ever 17, and probably more.

>>715516365
Shirou is plot armor, I like Tohsaka better

>>715533773
>Ever 17
Kino and accurately rated. Highly rated does not necessarily imply flawless masterpiece.

>>715530236
>feels like they put most of the budget into advertising. I don't know how they announced this last year and this was the story we got
it was done on purpose, this way mihoyo gets the profits from the collab and doesn't give any good advertisement to fate outside of cool-looking characters of which they've already copied before. Imagine how fucking scummy you have to be to steal from one of your "favorite" franchises for years, getting so rich to the point you can actually collab with them only to half-ass it because you know it's popularity will give you massive profit regardless. Chinese people are the fucking worst.

>>715524262
Nah.

>>715487051
S;G never did anything to earn its praise besides have a chuuni MC who is not even that likeable.

>>715523769
based

>>715530705
Steins;Gate can be better than Fate and still more overrated.

Reading this thread the only game people seem to actually agree on is Umineko

>>715535727
Not possible when fate is the most popular shit ever made in vn form.

>>715536106
Popularity is not equal to inappropriate rating. Plenty of people who partake of Fate recognize it as a deeply flawed experience.

>>715535751
Some episodes are really great, but the "novel" as a whole, is a mess.

>>715535751
Open your eyes first.

>>715536201
And Fate is even more flawed than they think it is.

>>715484337 (OP)
>The VN who spawned a two decade long franchise with 2 billions dollars is overrated

>>715484370
>The VN that had 4chan on his knee ten years ago trying to look at every single clue is overrated

>>715484432
>That other VN that had the entire by storm is overrated

Is there like 1 VN that you stupid, retarded niggers don't consider "overrated?". One you preferably read, because obviously you never read any of those.

>>715536957
Danganronpa is underrated

>>715536957
>Is there like 1 VN that you stupid, retarded niggers don't consider "overrated?"
Yes? I genuinely like both Fate and Umineko. Steins;Gate not so much. But I don't think everything is overrated.

>>715484337 (OP)
The issue is that you zoomer faggots try to measure Fate by today's standards, conveniently forgetting that it is a 2004 visual novel and Type-Moon's first full-fledged commercial release. Their only knowledge of Fate comes from FGO or, at most, the UBW anime.
The leap in production quality from Tsukihime to Fate/stay night is impressive to this day, as is the amount of effort they put in, considering all the bad endings they did, amount of CGs and sprites, character and weapon sheets, UI, visual effects, and music.

>>715484337 (OP)
reading it for the first time and I think it's correctly rated

>>715537339
1 and 2 sure.

>>715535751
Umineko's detractors are just low IQ
Fate's detractors are high IQ
Simple as

>>715537762
Umineko is genuinely just bad
Ep 1-3 are cool, but it immediately shits itself starting with 4 and just keeps going downhill
R07 is one of the weirdest writers ever, in that he has such good ideas and they start out so well but quickly you find out that the entirety of the narrative is just terrible

I have never, EVER met a well adjusted person who "plays" visual novels. Even the guys who spend thousands of hours modding porn into Skyrim are more normal.

>>715484432
This one

>>715538706
Ok. Why are you here

>>715537339
>played by all the popular lets players along with Phoenix Wright and DDL

It's more popular in the normalfag sphere, sure.

>>715537486
this is a "call everything good overrated" thread, don't bother

Dies Irae reminds me of DMC's style

>>715539025
Rating and popularity are not equivalent

>>715539046
No, it's call a spade a spade thread
Fate is just badly written, bad prose, bad dialogue, bad pacing, bad direction, bad narrative framing etc.

TRACE ON
TRACE OFF
TRACE ON
TRACE OFF
TRACE ON
TRACE OFF
TRACE ON
TRACE OFF
TRACE ON
TRACE OFF
TRACE ON
TRACE OFF
AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH HELP MEEEEEEE KIRITSUGUUUUUU

>>715538526
The problem with Umineko is it gradually goes from mystery to chuuni powerlevel fighting bs

>>715540773
it's love or some shit thoughbeit

>>715540773
but enough about Umineko.

>>715540773
But that's good too.
And its not like you should stop thinking.

The older I get the more I like Saber

>>715484337 (OP)
Steins Gate

>>715542176
i got a weird taste for cunny bunnies in my 20s too

read childge

>>715542176
wrong eye color!

>>715541429
There's nothing to think about post ep 4, you should already know what's going on to some extent

Greatest Love Story Ever Told

>>715543647
So you stopped thinking.

>>715543836
There's nothing to think about post ep 4
Tell me one think I should've been thinking about that wasn't obvious that occured ep 5 onward

>>715543954
Hold on, don't tell me you actually picked the magic ending

>>715545348
He's probably a filtered Frieren or S;G fanboy, the brain damage is terminal.

Shirou is still my hero.

>>715546296
Shirou is only successful because of astronomical plot armor

>>715546458
"read with my eyes closed" award

>>715546729
how can you possibly deny this, what mental gymnastics am I gonna hear this time

>>715484939
This.

>>715544427
>caring about endings
They don't actually truly matter in terms of the theme of what the work is, that's the problem?
The culprit? The x person? Doesn't matter and misses the point

why do YT ecelebs call Nasu he while everyone on 4chan calls ??? she, am I missing something?

>>715548648
There was a "theory" that Nasu might be a woman due to writing style (first two stories had female MCs, heavy use of rape and weirdly written sex, Fate/Prototype etc.) but I think it was debunked some time ago.

>>715548992
I see, to be honest I suspected as much when I saw everyone creep on Rin in UBW, felt like something a woman would write.

Fate is ass. Why does anyone shill this shit?

>>715484370
FPBP

>>715484337 (OP)
>half of fate apocrypha is a single battle

>>715486718
Fate (+DeadAncestorApostles -Types) is the best superhero universe since marvel.

>>715492303
no, it's not a meme. Hentai Prison is peak eroge.
it's The Shawshank Redemption but for 60 hours with better plot and characters.
Qruppo's masterpiece as of now

>>715546458
Shirou is successful because in terms of magus society the island of japan is a backwards flyover state filled with rural and suburban retards. Exactly one person in the entire 5th holy grail war can properly master a servant and its fucking Caster. Any proper master should be empowering their servant, not ranging from 'baseline' to 'actively making the servant weaker'. Kojiro and even fucking soichirou arent hero strong, its just the entire 5th HGW is barely human+ in powerlevel. Of course some guy accidentally triggering a reality marble is going to plow through it.

>>715552606
I have no idea what you're talking about but I'm about to know since I installed the VN after watching UBW and Zero, but in UBW Shirou is saved by people going easy on him, villains getting bored, fatal wounds not ending up being fatal and other shitty plot contrivances is what I meant, he should have died in episode 1 when Lancer decided to re-kill him. Or the forest with Rider.

>>715484337 (OP)
Rance
Steins;Gate
Muv Luv
WA2

>>715554626
Agreed except for Rance, that one is actually good.

>>715555389
I don't think he knows what overrated means, Rance is literally only known among 4chan and japs, literally unheard off in the normie sphere and it's somehow overrated lmao

>>715552606
>Exactly one person in the entire 5th holy grail war can properly master a servant and its fucking Caster.
Tohsaka and Illyasviel are both supernal Masters, Illyasviel is arguably the highest quality Master in the entire series after "Ayaka Sajyou".

>>715485348
It doesn't, mainly because they get their money through merchandise. The gacha is generous to a point where it doesn't make much money.

People are much happier paying for apiece of $15 plastic than spending it on gacha currency.

>>715556879
That's pretty clever actually, maybe more gacha games could use that model.

>>715525263
Horny

>>715556879
>generous
Lol, you're a fucking retard

>>715484337 (OP)
Fate gets more flak than any other VN in the "canon", so even assuming it's actually worse than all of them, it can't be overrated by definition.

For a core VN reader aggregate, it's easily MLA. For a general aggregate, it's DDLC.

AND THEY SAID A HERO COULD SAVE US

I'M NOT GONNA STAND HERE A WAIT

I am the bone of my sword

>>715485348
>>715505395

Are you blind? It is literally written there, Comiket 106. These are the booths for this summer Comiket next month.

>>715484337 (OP)
How can the VN be overrated when fatefags don't read?

>>715484337 (OP)
I'll accept it's overrated when I find a better visual novel

>>715548035
>the culprit's identity and why they did it doesn't matter
Sounds like you missed the heart, little man.

>>715563497
Ever 17, 13 Sentinels, and Steins;Gate are already better

>>715484547
4chan summarized