>boot up battlefront 2
>only play as separatists, the BEST faction

roger roger.

>>715958630 (OP)
based and CIS-pilled

>>715958630 (OP)
>boot up battlefront 2
>stare at ahsoka's orange toes

Why would they give these dumb droids personality when they were made to die en masse? Seems a bit cruel and pointless.

Are we talking about the REAL battlefront 2 or the 2017 one?

>>715958803
dumb waifufag, ahsoka isnt in either battlefront 2s

>>715958630 (OP)
How can anyone side with the jedies when they pretend to surrender regularly ?!?

>>715958630 (OP)
SUPER BATTLE DROID!
TAKE 'EM DOWN!

It's actually incredible how I ger recommended the Clone Wars show pn how it "fixed the prequels" due to it haing more screen time between Anakin and Obi Wan, only for it to ruin Count Doolu, Battle Droids, Order 66, The Force, etc.

>>715958880
Maybe it's just a consequence of the AI they use and limiting it so they don't develop personalities would just be a waste of time

>>715959372
I don't remember much about the show, but how did they ruin Dooku and the Force?
Order 66 turning into le brain chip is super fucking gay, yeah. Really ruined the impact and story potential of the whole event.

>>715959372
TCW is bad fanfiction that ruins essentially every character it touches. It's "best" moments are the middling, repetitive clones vs droids battle scenes.

>>715959515
Dooku is just a comic book villian, no nuance, alsot he whole resurrecting people in the Mortus arc is fucking wild.

>>715959515
>but how did they ruin Dooku
from what I remember, TCW dooku is just a le generic scheming evil villain mastermind guy.

>>715959585
To be fair, there wasn't much nuance to him even in the movie. Which is a shame, they could have done so much more with him since the concept of a jedi that got so fed up with the corruption of the Republic and the Jedi Order that he decided to rebel against the system is a cool concept and could serve as a good parallel to Luke in the OT.
>Mortus Arc
I remember nothing about that arc, so I must have skipped it or just banished it from my memory.

>>715959585
>>715959639
dooku is a lot better in dark disciple but we never got that animated

I hate the normal battledroids but I love the spider droids. They're adorable and I want one as a pet.

>>715958880
Droids are not programmable computers, they have analog "brains", and naturally develop personalities if you go to long without erasing their memory.

>>715959372
>>715959515
Brain chips are the only way order 66 makes any fucking sense at all.
>>715959585
Dooku never had nuance

>>715959861
>To be fair, there wasn't much nuance to him even in the movie.
he's a manifestation of one aspect of vader. He isn't technically a complex character in and of himself, but he is more nuanced in the way that he's supposed to give you a sneak peek at what Anakin will become if he continues to go down a dark path. Grievous likewise is a manifestation of an aspect of vader, specifically his physical appearance.
Turning them into either generic bad guys or doing what you said and making them tragic heroes/ villains misses the point somewhat.

>>715959585
Dooku was a serial liar, he was a double agent and controlled operative, and his true goal was aligned with Palpatine, which was reviving the Sith world order.

>>715960167
>Brain chips are the only way order 66 makes any fucking sense at all.

>Palpatine created the clones
>Palpatine makes the kaminoan cloners brainwash them into being absolutely loyal to Palpatine's word, because clones protect the republic, and Palpatine is the "republic"
there, it's that easy to explain Order 66 without some capeshit-tier evil brainchip plot. I mean shit, the "evil device that brainwashes you into killing people" is the plot of fucking naked gun.

>>715960187
>he's a manifestation of one aspect of vader.
No he fucking isn't. All three prequels were lazy first drafts, and zoomers need to stop pretending they are anything but lazy cashgrabs.

>>715960373
>because clones protect the republic, and Palpatine is the "republic"
The clones are not droids, almost none of them would continue to believe indefinitely that palpatine is the republic. Nor would they accept that every jedi, including the ones they are currently serving with in the field, are a threat to him specifically or the republic in general.
>the "evil device that brainwashes you into killing people" is the plot of fucking naked gun.
You are literally calling for such a device, just that it was used years in advance and not at the time of order 66.

>>715960398
Lucas had a bunch of ideas regarding the prequels sloshing around in his head since before he made ANH, as is evident if you read some of the earlier scripts for the OT movies.
The prequels have very messy execution in places, but they are more or less fully conceived films.

>>715958880
Their ability to feel pain and terror motivates them to fight better.

>>715958880
>Why would they give these dumb droids personality when they were made to die en masse?
Because the last time they had a hivemind connected to a supercomputer a kid defeated them by just bombing such supercomputer.

That's why after that the droids became more "stupid" because they literally don't have enough VRAM to run a big LLma database

>>715960167
>Brain chips are the only way order 66 makes any fucking sense at all.
I disagree. I think the way they did it in Legends made perfect sense. These clones are child soldiers taught since childhood to obey any order given to them. You can see it in real life military too where the goal of a bootcamp is to breakdown new recruit and make sure they follow order no matter how strange it might seem to them, since the person giving order might know something they don't and a moment of hesitation could mean death for them and their squad.
It made the decision of some commander to shoot down their jedi more impactful since it's THEIR decision. It also made perfect sense that some clones would gladly kill jedis since some of the jedis were terrible leader that got so many of their friends killed.
By taking away the clones' agency, you cut off any potential story or internal conflict that might result from their actions during Order 66.

>a handful of alien jews are somehow a serious threat to the entire galaxy

THE TECHNO UNION I... *aphex twin song starts playing*

>>715960514
>The clones are not droids, almost none of them would continue to believe indefinitely that palpatine is the republic. Nor would they accept that every jedi, including the ones they are currently serving with in the field, are a threat to him specifically or the republic in general.
You're saying this based on TCW clones, who have a little bit too much personality relative to their movie counterparts, and are often depicted as being reasonably rational and moral good guys. Real movie clones banter a little bit, but are mostly stoic goons for the jedi, and then sheev. They don't appear to have lots of personality, and they always do what they're told, even if it means they'll get killed, like in RotS when Obi Wan makes all the ARC starfighters converge behind him as they're flying into a wave of like a billion vulture droids, after which point Obi Wan just fucking abandons them and lets the clones soak up the fire.
It's pretty evident that it was already the case that the idea for Order 66 was brainwashing, not a dumb brainchip just based on the fact that clones always obey orders from superiors.
>You are literally calling for such a device, just that it was used years in advance and not at the time of order 66.
I'm not asking for any device. I'm asking for clones to be raised from artificial-womb to grave to be absolutely loyal to the republic and to the emperor. Like space hitler youth.

>>715958953
CLANKERS DONT LOOK LIKE THAT

here is your supreme commander of separatist remnants bro

>>715961027
They had a LOT of money.

>>715961204
>hair
What have they done to her?

>>715961027
Techno Union bro deserved better.

>>715961027
So whats wrong with wanting independence from the republic?

>>715960994
>These clones are child soldiers taught since childhood to obey any order given to them.
Every legitimate order. They are aware of and cautious about the possibility of information warfare. If clones just automatically did what they were told no matter what, it would have been noticed and exploited by the CIS: just send them spam communication from hologram deepfakes of republic authorities telling them to sabotage their mission or kill their COs. But that wouldn't actually work because the clones are humans and thus can make determinations about whether an order makes sense. They are conditioned to be loyal and to suppress insubordination, not to be retards. Which they would have to be to follow order 66. It's not just a matter of betraying the jedi, but that it would be obviously bad for the repulbic to kill all the jedi right when they were about to defeat the CIS.
>These clones are child soldiers taught since childhood to obey any order given to them.
Order 66 being their own decision would make it either fail to kill most of the jedi ( as most would not follow it), or would make the clones into a bunch of idiots for thinking that it was somehow the right thing to do for the republic.
>It also made perfect sense that some clones would gladly kill jedis since some of the jedis were terrible leader that got so many of their friends killed.
This was never suggested even in legends. If anything, they should feel more resentment towards the government that created them to die than the jedi, who are with them in the field and trying to help them win and survive.
>By taking away the clones' agency, you cut off any potential story or internal conflict that might result from their actions during Order 66.
"Boo hoo, I killed my CO for no good reason and now I feel sad :("

>>715961285
>they
nothing, she was going to have hair in TCW as far back as a model being made in 2012 but they cancelled it

>>715961414
Unironically nothing. Their movement just got roped into ancient religious war bullshit.

Imagine how much better off the galaxy would be if you didnt have these two retarded cults throwing shit at eachother all the fucking time

>>715961414
Nothing wrong with wanting independence from the Empire.

>>715961452
>Every legitimate order. They are aware of and cautious about the possibility of information warfare. If clones just automatically did what they were told no matter what, it would have been noticed and exploited by the CIS: just send them spam communication from hologram deepfakes of republic authorities telling them to sabotage their mission or kill their COs. But that wouldn't actually work because the clones are humans and thus can make determinations about whether an order makes sense. They are conditioned to be loyal and to suppress insubordination, not to be retards.
You're overthinking a movie for children. Clones are shown to always follow orders from their superiors. The potential strategic implications of this is just ignored, like so many other things in star wars warfare. If George Lucas wanted star wars warfare to be in any way realistic, it would look like the russia-ukraine war, and it would fucking suck cock.

>>715961113
>You're saying this based on TCW clones,
No, I'm saying it based on the logic of the situation. The personality doesn't matter, order 66 doesn't make any logical sense for the clones to actually execute, regardless of whether they even personally like the jedi or not. A clone who wasn't already aware of the contingency would get the call, and assume (arguably correctly), that it was an attempt at information warfare and sabotage, not a legitimate military command. And if the clones DID know about the contingency in advance, the jedi would know, since they can read fucking minds.

Also, ROTS already confirmed that there was something beyond mere psychological conditioning, because when Cody got his order 66 message, he recognized "lord Sidious". How the fuck could he POSSIBLY do that without the brain chip? Did the kaminoans just fucking tell ALL the clones about his existence? And somehow the jedi never found out?
>I'm asking for clones to be raised from artificial-womb to grave to be absolutely loyal to the republic and to the emperor. Like space hitler youth.
Clones loyal to the republic would not follow order 66. Anymore than the Hitler youth would follow an alleged order from Hitler to exterminate all of their own officers.

>>715961556
It's not really a cult when their belief is 100% real and actively affects life.

>>715961771
>Clones are shown to always follow orders from their superiors.
Because they're soldiers in a battle? Of course they would. That doesn't mean that they're going to fall for blatant sabotage.

>>715961414
The CIS got hijacked by an evil wizard who put insane war criminals in charge of everything. Then the republic assumes these insane war criminals are representative of the CIS, when most CIS citizens do not even know about the crazy bullshit that their own commanders are doing in the field.

>make an army of commando droids
>win
It would have been that easy.
>b-but it's too le expensive!
Conquer, nationalize, and enslave a couple of planets then completely dedicate them to mass production. Build less of those shitty starships too to free up resources.

>>715961839
Still doesn't excuse the millenia long feud that they drag the rest of the galaxy into, all sith and jedi should be deported to a single planet so they can whack eachother in peace and stop making it everyone elses problem

>>715961784
>that it was an attempt at information warfare and sabotage, not a legitimate military command. And if the clones DID know about the contingency in advance, the jedi would know, since they can read fucking minds.
Again, you're overthinking a movie for kids. Clones are loyal because we're told in AotC that they're bred to be loyal. Attempting to qualify their loyalty with logic and skepticism based purely on "well, it would make sense for it to be like this in-universe" is retarded, because star wars is a mythological tale set in space in the first place. Logical consistency was never a goal.
>How the fuck could he POSSIBLY do that without the brain chip?
The Force. Like the sandtroopers that Obi Wan used the jedi mindtrick on in ANH, they have weak minds.

>>715961984
https://youtu.be/tSwDTqNCqEM?si=BmbN-Ivjol_HfPvx

>>715961871
so clones are brainwashed from the beginning to allow themselves to be brutally murdered and maimed if a commanding officer orders it, but they would never ever ever ever ever kill someone else based on a CO's order, right? That makes sense to you?

>>715961556

>>715962076
>Clones are loyal because we're told in AotC that they're bred to be loyal.
And this wouldn't apply to their direct COs, the jedi, BECAUSE?
>Attempting to qualify their loyalty with logic and skepticism based purely on "well, it would make sense for it to be like this in-universe" is retarded,
Well apparently fucking not, because a more competent set of writers AGREED with me, and thus made the change to the much more rational explanation: the brain chips.
>The Force.
Not even Palpatine could mind trick tens of millions of people all at once. If he could, he would have needed to bother with his steps to accumulate power in a politically legitimate way.

>>715962168
You're comparing two situations
1. A clone is given a field order to do something extremely dangerous and likely to get him killed in order to fulfill the mission and win for the republic
2. A clone is ordered to kill an important republic asset for no reason and without explanation, over the phone
Yes, it makes sense that you could condition a clone to do the former but not the latter. Anyone who was conditioned to do the latter would be a bad and unreliable solider.

>>715961452
>Every legitimate order. They are aware of and cautious about the possibility of information warfare.
I don't remember which novel it was, but some of the Clones definitely though it might have been a Separatist ploy before they verified the signal's legitimacy.
inb4 >novel
>( as most would not follow it)
You underestimate how strong these mental reinforcement can be. There were definitely more jedis that survived the order in Legends though, which, like you said, would make sense.
>This was never suggested even in legends.
I swear this was mentioned somewhere. Maybe my mind's playing trick on me.
>"Boo hoo, I killed my CO for no good reason and now I feel sad :("
Nah man, I meant both for clone who killed their jedi and clone who let their jedi go. Even for the clone who killed their jedi, you could have more than just boo hoo. It could be anger at the Emperor for tricking them, depression for killing who they thought was their friend for no reason, coping by thinking that they were just following order, and so on. Now it's just
>Oh fug, we were the victim too :((((
Which is boring as shit.

>>715962293
>And this wouldn't apply to their direct COs, the jedi, BECAUSE?
What? Is your argument that they should have obeyed the jedi because they're bred to be loyal? Because they do do that. But palpatine outranks them so their orders don't matter if they conflict with the emperor's.
>Well apparently fucking not, because a more competent set of writers AGREED with me, and thus made the change to the much more rational explanation: the brain chips.
competent though they may be, they fundamentally misapprehended what star wars is, like everybody who ever had a hand in making star wars content save for lucas himself. Star wars has lots of stuff in it, but the focus of the franchise is actually very small, because it's a mythological heroic epic/ fairy tale. It's not saving private ryan in space. You can make saving private ryan in space, and it might even be decent, but it's not star wars.
>Not even Palpatine could mind trick tens of millions of people all at once.
why not, the clones are a bunch of easily-manipulatable sheep, it should be trivially easy.

>>715961556
The Fel Empire had the right idea. Religious force users are retarded and is the source of all the galaxy's woe.

>>715961556
It would actually be worse.
A galaxy owned by evil subhuman retard criminals like on earth.

>>715958880
Droids in Star Wars seem to have brains that work the same way organic brains do (even if they aren't made of meat) so the feelings are a natural consequence of their intelligence. This was made worse when instead of sharing one big droid brain based in a star ship, they switched to a bunch of individual brains for each individual droid.

>>715962420
>1. A clone is given a field order to do something extremely dangerous and likely to get him killed in order to fulfill the mission and win for the republic
Obi Wan literally uses the ARC pilots as meatshields in RotS. It's not just an order to do something dangerous, it's an order to commit suicide to buy time so the jedi can get to grievous' ship.
>2. A clone is ordered to kill an important republic asset for no reason and without explanation, over the phone
>for no reason
Order 66 was a contingency for if the jedi went rogue. It's not "for no reason," it's for the event that they go rogue

>>715962596
>Oh fug, we were the victim too :((((
>Which is boring as shit.
I mean you can call it a bit hackneyed, but there's certainly a lot more going on with the concept of what is effectively an entire species being invented out of whole cloth for a specific purpose and then being used and discarded as casually as a droid the instant that purpose was fulfilled, then the clones just being generic mooks peace out the instant they're no longer plot relevant.
>>715962682
>Is your argument that they should have obeyed the jedi because they're bred to be loyal?
Yes. And not just because of their loyalty TO the jedi, but do the REPUBLIC. If a clone things that killing the jedi would be bad for the republic, which it obviously would be, they should hesitate at the idea of killing them, regardless of whether they like or respect the jedi personally. It's like, if a clone got a random hologram call to blow up a battlecruiser, would they just do it? Of course not, that would be stupid.
>they fundamentally misapprehended what star wars is, like everybody who ever had a hand in making star wars content save for lucas himself.
The knots that retard zoomers will tie themselves into to pretend the prequels aren't lazy garbage, I swear
>why not,
Because if he could, then he would have never needed such a roundabout way to become emperor in the first place.

>>715959372
The droids in the Clone Wars are the same as they were in the prequels. Even in Phantom Menace they were bumbling retards the instant they were faced with any task that required thinking. Dooku was great in The Clone Wars too. The best thing about the Clone Wars is how they fixed Anakin, the rest of the stuff I'd say is about the same level as the movies in terms of quality. Except Order 66, I agree that was a dumb retcon. The episodes featuring it (before season 7) were still good though.

>>715963017
>Obi Wan literally uses the ARC pilots as meatshields in RotS.
No, he orders them with him on a strike mission. Yes, it's extremely dangerous, no, it was not guaranteed suicide. It's also not something that pilots have not constantly done since air warfare was a thing.
>Order 66 was a contingency for if the jedi went rogue. It's not "for no reason," it's for the event that they go rogue
And so a clone gets order 66, and looks at the jedi not doing anything differently than they have for the past 3 years, and doesn't at least consider that the order might not be legitimate?

>>715963185
>If a clone things that killing the jedi would be bad for the republic, which it obviously would be, they should hesitate at the idea of killing them, regardless of whether they like or respect the jedi personally
jedi aren't doing much to protect the republic if the emperor himself personally calls up every clone commander and tells him that the jedi have gone rogue and are threatening the republic.
>The knots that retard zoomers will tie themselves into to pretend the prequels aren't lazy garbage, I swear
you can seethe about the prequels all you want. I'm not commenting on their quality. I'm saying that star wars is a mythical saga, not a realistic account of a grand scifi war.
>Because if he could, then he would have never needed such a roundabout way to become emperor in the first place.
manipulating specifically clones would be trivially easy because they were custom-made to be receptive to anything palpatine does or says. The required force exertion for palpatine to manipulate a clone would be much lower than manipulating anyone else.

>>715960167
The brain chips aren't the problem. We knew since their introduction that were genetically engineered to be docile and obedient. The problem is the specifics of how they work. In the movies the clones were basically organic droids. They could think, feel, and make decisions, but they were dogmatically loyal to their programming. So if their chancellor passes them a list of secret orders about killing the jedi, and whoever else the other 65 orders were for, and tells them to keep their mouths shut about it, they'll do it without questioning him. Same for fragging their commander, it was an order, they always follow orders.

The Clone Wars had to humanize the clones so the audience could empathize with them as the protagonists, so that meant the old organic droid thing didn't work anymore. I preferred the way Battlefront 2 squared away that circle, making them all know what's coming, but really dread it because they like the Jedi, but I can see why George wouldn't want to do something like that in a kids TV show.

>>715963185
I don't know, the clones didn't just "peace out" in legend either. I didn't watch any of the show after TCW, so I'm not sure how the new canon handled it, but in legend the clones only started being phased out because the sped-up growth process was rapidly aging them and rendering them unfit for combat, and then disappeared entirely when the Kaminoans rebelled which forced the empire to switch to more conventional recruitment. It made the Empire seem more logical since they're not wasting resources, instead of being evul for the sake of being evil.

>>715963324
>No, he orders them with him on a strike mission.
He doesn't order any with him, he tells them to form up behind him, and then he breaks away when they get up to the vulture droids, which I will remind you each have 4 super fast heatseaking missiles. He even tells anakin to avoid the vulture droids and proceed on, allowing the clones to get blown up and die horribly being tossed around in the vacuum of space where they will probably be incinerated during reentry into coruscant. Anakin even gets upset about the clones dying, to which Obi Wan basically tells him to ignore them and let them die.
>And so a clone gets order 66, and looks at the jedi not doing anything differently than they have for the past 3 years, and doesn't at least consider that the order might not be legitimate?
Ok, so imagine this, right. America goes to war with Russia. The whole US Army is hand-selected from magatards to be extremely loyal to blumpf. The army attaches a crazy baptist preacher to every army squadron. A few years into the war, the US troops on the ground in Russia get a personal message from trump saying that the baptists back home have started an insurrection and are trying to destroy the government.
Ok, so maybe the one preacher attached to your squadron wasn't part of the insurrection, because they've been away fighting in Russia, but they are part of an insurrectionist cell, and will likely fall in with the other insurrectionists when they return home, because ultimately their loyalty to the US is secondary to their loyalty to their faith. So in a choice as between the two, the former always loses.

>>715959639
Dooku was great in the Clone Wars. The actor nailed his impression of Christopher Lee and they got his personality right too. He was always the refined villain who acted like he was better than everyone, and usually he was. And the few times he wasn't, he always found a way to come out on top. There was that time a bunch of Sith witches ambushed him in his pajamas, poisoned him, and attacked him with lightsabers, but he absolutely dog walked them despite being out numbered five to one. Or all the times he beat down his assassins when they got uppity to remind them why he was in charge. Or the many times he beat Anakin in a fight, despite Anakin being stronger than him in half of those fights, because he never fought fair. Or the time he did get embarrassed by a bunch of pirates, he sent an army of droids to wipe them all out as revenge.

Grevious was the shitty mustache twirling villain who got his ass kicked all the time.

>>715963569
>jedi aren't doing much to protect the republic if the emperor himself personally calls up every clone commander and tells him that the jedi have gone rogue and are threatening the republic.
Except the clones are in the fields with the jedi and can see that this is a lie. You could make this argument for the clones stationed on or near Coruscant who got the order to siege the jedi temple, not so on active battlefronts with the CIS.
>I'm not commenting on their quality.
Yes you are. You are trying to imply that their shitty, half baked writing is justified when it isn't.

>>715960514
>The clones are not droids,
In the movies they practically were. You forget how human droids in Star Wars are. C-3P0 and R2 aren't the exception, they're the standard. Just look at the battle droids, there's billions of those things, yet they're shown to be chatty cowards, with a penchant for smartass comments.

>>715962596
In the campaign for Battlefront 2, the clone narrator mentioned that Aayla Secura was one of the only good ones, and implied that they knew something was going to come down, as they couldnt look her in the eyes.

>>715963776
>In the movies the clones were basically organic droids.
No, they weren't. Nothing in the movies suggests this. It would also be fucking stupid to spend so much extra to make a person instead of just making droids if all you wanted was a droid.
>So if their chancellor passes them a list of secret orders about killing the jedi, and whoever else the other 65 orders were for, and tells them to keep their mouths shut about it, they'll do it without questioning him.
If they consciously knew about the contingency orders, the jedi would have found out, as they can read minds, and there's no way that at least one clone wouldn't eventually fuck up.
>I preferred the way Battlefront 2 squared away that circle, making them all know what's coming, but really dread it because they like the Jedi, but I can see why George wouldn't want to do something like that in a kids TV show.
The reason they changed it away from that is because it doesn't make sense. If they can not want to do something, they can, and would, just not do it. Some of them would, of course, but not nearly enough to take out almost all of the jedi.

>>715961414
The separatist council didn't care about independence, Sheev just offered them a lot of money and resources in exchange for them seceding.

>>715963185
Order 66 is a contingency order to be issued in the face that the Jedi Order turns against the republic. Which they objectively did, even if doing so was an attempt to remove a Sith, he was a rightfully elected Sith senator and chancellor.

>>715964156
>Anakin even gets upset about the clones dying, to which Obi Wan basically tells him to ignore them and let them die.
I'm not sure why you're trying to frame this as unreasonable on Obi Wan's part, as the deaths of every clone in that battle would have been in vain if Anakin had taken his eyes off the ball. It's a war. It's not like the two of them weren't about to do battle with greivous and dooku, the latter of whom kicked their asses before.
>Ok, so imagine this, right. America goes to war with Russia. The whole US Army is hand-selected from magatards to be extremely loyal to blumpf. The army attaches a crazy baptist preacher to every army squadron. A few years into the war, the US troops on the ground in Russia get a personal message from trump saying that the baptists back home have started an insurrection and are trying to destroy the government.
Now I understand, prequelfags are just insane leftoids.

>>715961556
If that were the case all sentient organic life would've been exterminated by a droid revolt millennia ago. The Jedi and their force powers are the only thing keeping droids from having an uncontested advantage over organic life.

>>715965090
>Which they objectively did,
No, they didn't. They tried to arrest Palpatine for treason through his collaboration with enemies of the repulbic, which he was objectively guilty of.

>>715964823
>Except the clones are in the fields with the jedi and can see that this is a lie
They can see that the one jedi they're working with is not currently rebelling, but if all the jedi on coruscant are rebelling, then the one in the field would absolutely join them when they could, because they're part of an insane religious cult. That doesn't make it a lie. It could just as well be that the field jedi wasn't in on the other jedi's plan and was a way on a mission, which means it's the best time for the clones to strike before the jedi catches wind and escapes to join up with the insurrectionists.
>Yes you are. You are trying to imply that their shitty, half baked writing is justified when it isn't.
I'm only "justifying" certain things insofar as I'm saying that they were ignored because they're irrelevant. Why did the clones betray the jedi? Who cares, we'll just put a handwave-y explanation in AotC that clones are supremely loyal. Devoting any more brainpower to it shifts the focus of star wars from being a mythological story about Anakin and Luke to being, like I said, saving private ryan in space. And as I also said, saving private ryan in space can be good, but it is NOT star wars.

>>715965259
They had no authority to arrest the chancellor, and they attempted a coup.

>>715965259
How can they arrest him for treason against the Republic when he IS the Senate/Republic?
Checkmate jedifags

>>715965176
>trying to frame this as unreasonable on Obi Wan's part
I'm not trying to frame it as unreasonable. I bring it up to show how jedi strategy has adapted to clones being not actually people and thus not deserving of moral consideration, as even the noble and heroic Obi Wan uses them as disposable meat shields rather than comrades in arms.

>Is the coolest and most fun villain in your path

>>715961784
>the jedi would know, since they can read fucking minds.
The Jedi's psychic abilities were greatly diminished during the Clone Wars. Mace and Yoda say so in Attack of The Clones. If they weren't they would've sensed Sheev's plot and stopped it early. Remember that a Jedi can sense the intentions of a rock to hit their head despite it having no mind at all if the force wills it. The clones being unaware of their orders until the last minute wouldn't make a difference to Jedi perception.

>>715965296
>then the one in the field would absolutely join them when they could, because they're part of an insane religious cult.
This is not true and the clones know it's not true. They also were not told that the jedi were rebelling on coruscant (or anywhere else), just "execute order 66". They also recognize the one giving the order as Sidious, not Palpatine, already ruling out the order as a logical extension of their loyalty to the republic even aside from the fact that the jedi were obviously not a threat to the republic.
>Why did the clones betray the jedi? Who cares, we'll just put a handwave-y explanation in AotC that clones are supremely loyal.
Great writing. How did the jedi go from ten thousand to two? "The republic army was like, super loyal and stuff."
>And as I also said, saving private ryan in space can be good, but it is NOT star wars.
Yes, it is. I get that your entire fucking personality is based on the throne room scene from return of the jedi, but that's not ALL that star wars was, is, can be, or should be about.

>>715961984
The CIS were given bad orders on purpose by Sheev and Dooku.

>>715965531
>dude my entire personality is...revenge...
>star wars fans think this is deep
he's shit

>>715958880
Flanderization of the series, trying to reduce age ratings so kids are allowed to watch SW and selling toys.

>>715965475
>I bring it up to show how jedi strategy has adapted to clones being not actually people and thus not deserving of moral consideration,
He showed them the same amount of consideration as has been shown to fighter pilots for a century.

>>715965176
Obi Wan's actions aren't unreasonable, but they certainly showed a lack of concern for the survival of his pilots compared to himself and Anakin. Which was the correct call, both in terms of command structure and battlefield tactics, but it clearly demonstrates that he doesn't consider their lives as important.
Can you imagine him making the same calculation for any non-clone named character?

>>715965626
>The Jedi's psychic abilities were greatly diminished during the Clone Wars.
Their ability to see the future. Not their ability to detect hostility.
>If they weren't they would've sensed Sheev's plot
Sheev is an unbelievably powerful force user and thus it's obvious he could hide his power level and his intentions.
>The clones being unaware of their orders until the last minute wouldn't make a difference to Jedi perception.
Jedi perception would allow the jedi to know that the clones were about to shoot them once the order was given, but not to know well in advance, unless the clones already had the order in their heads.

>>715958630 (OP)
>One cause
Didn't know the separatists were fighting specifically for the right to own slaves like the Confederates.

>>715961027
Wat Tambor carried them.

>>715965697
When the fuck did I say he was deep? He's just cool. His revival in clone wars show is just the icing on the cake for me

>>715965768
>Can you imagine him making the same calculation for any non-clone named character?
He literally used a republic senator as bait for her own assassin in episode 2. That's not to say that George intentionally wrote him to be a cold asshole, George himself is just a bad writer.

>>715961784
>the jedi would know, since they can read fucking minds.
I thought they could just sense emotion? That's why so many of them were taken by surprise since the clones weren't really hostile, they were just blankly following order.

>>715965697
>dude my entire personality is...revenge...
His personality is sunk cost fallacy

>>715964156
>letting a real estate mogul live this rent free
life really is a comedy

>>715965914
Yankee hands typed this post.

>>715966017
It's a lot more than just emotional state. For example, Vader was able to learn about Leia just by focusing on Luke.

>>715966089
probably from a southern state he ran to after his state got fucked up. Many such cases!

>>715965682
>This is not true and the clones know it's not true.
>They also were not told that the jedi were rebelling on coruscant (or anywhere else), just "execute order 66".
yeah, it's the same thing. Order 66 is a contingency for if the Jedi go rogue.
>Great writing. How did the jedi go from ten thousand to two?
it doesn't matter, it just had to happen for the OT.
WHy does the Hundings clan attack the Volsungs clan in germanic heroic poetry? Answer: So the fucking story can happen.
>Yes, it is. I get that your entire fucking personality is based on the throne room scene from return of the jedi, but that's not ALL that star wars was, is, can be, or should be about.
Military shit is always in the periphery of star wars. The like 6 minute hoth battle is the mostsaving private ryan star wars gets without any kind of spiritual jedi shit going on in the background.
Even the geonosis battle arena had the underlying subtext of the noble and powerful jedi being replaced with hordes of mindless clones

>>715958880
>>715965750
The flanderization of the droids started with TCW

>>715966089
Damn right secession traitor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvjOG5gboFU

>>715965013
>Nothing in the movies suggests this. It would also be fucking stupid to spend so much extra to make a person instead of just making droids if all you wanted was a droid.
The whole point of the clone thematically is that they're a mirror to the droids. The only difference is that they're smarter, more creative, but just as obedient. The Kaminoans say as much. There's even foreshadowing with Obi Wan saying "Well if droids could think, there'd be none of us here." which is followed up by an army of thinking organic droids showing up, the army which later kills all of the Jedi.
>the jedi would have found out, as they can read minds
Not anymore. That was a major plot point in the prequels. The Jedi have lost much of their abilities and become practically blind. Remember that Jedi can also see the future, sense danger, and see things on the other side of the galaxy, and yet they couldn't sense the creation of a clone army nor Sheev's plot to kill them. It took until a couple days before order 66 for Mace to sense "a plot to destroy the Jedi" with no specifics beyond that.
> If they can not want to do something, they can, and would, just not do it.
They wouldn't though. They're dogmatically loyal to a fault. They were biologically engineered to be as loyal as possible. It works on the same principle as the canon brain chip, its just always on instead of being a secret kill switch.

Could the main character from the last game you played beat 2003 Grievous?

>>715965965
>stand right outside padme's door
>monitor her with the force (she wouldn't let you watch her with security cameras)
>rush in the second you sense something go awry
meanwhile oddball in RotS begs for help from Obi Wan and Anakin, and Obi Wan ignores him and forces Anakin to do the same

>>715965682
>Great writing. How did the jedi go from ten thousand to two? "The republic army was like, super loyal and stuff."
We have real life parallels to this. Plenty of cases of IRL war heroes and generals being killed by their own troops because the guy in charge back home wanted him dead. Like when Rome purged a bunch of Caesar loyalist generals, or when the samurai were exterminated by the emperor of Japan.

>>715966685
>believing in the ten thousand jedi retcon.

>>715966446
Oh you gonna get it now boy.
https://youtu.be/3uRZYNcYR-w?

I'M GONNA SAY THE C WORD

>>715966843
>2nd
Perfect for the 2nd place team that lost the war.

>>715966908
Cheeky fucker.

Reminder that Dooku hated aliens and cyborgs and wanted to create a human supremacist sith empire according to the ROTS novelisation

>>715966296
>it doesn't matter,
It does matter. The plot of your movies making sense does matter.
>Military shit is always in the periphery of star wars.
It's the overwhelming majority of the original trilogy. The entire first act of episode 5 is about the battle. The trilogy as a whole has very little spirituality shit outside of Luke's training on Dagobah.

>>715965892
>Their ability to see the future. Not their ability to detect hostility.
Mace says flat out "our ability to use the force has diminished" and he says it in the context of not being able to sense the creation of the clone army, which is a present event. If the Jedi's best and brightest can't sense something like that, just imagine how bad the average Jedi is. We don't even have to since we can see that none of the Jedi except Yoda sense when their clones were taking aim at their backs. The strongest force user in the Jedi order at the time couldn't sense the clones intentions until they were pointing the guns at his back, and even then only because he felt all the other Jedi in the galaxy die. The Jedi were blind.

>>715965914
The CIS did practice slavery, there was a whole arc in the Clone Wars about it.

>>715960794
>give up on strategic supercomputer because of a freak accident
Just have multiple active control ships instead of just one, and cover the main reactor instead of leaving it wide open.
There, no more retarded droids and they're back to being mindless killing machines like they're supposed to.

>>715966685
Roman emperors who were killed by their own men were killed because they were hated or refused to provide enough money to their disloyal "guards".

>>715966017
Jedi can sense anything, if the Force wants them to sense it. If it doesn't, they won't sense it at all. The Jedi were blinded to the Sith plot by the Force as a punishment for being arrogant and not following its will.

>>715966484
>john halo masta cheef
he prolly has a good chance

>>715967042
>Mace says flat out "our ability to use the force has diminished"
In response to a statement about how they can't see the future.
>We don't even have to since we can see that none of the Jedi except Yoda sense when their clones were taking aim at their backs.
We don't know what they sensed since they were killed literally in the middle of fighting droids and shit.

>>715967168
ottoman sultans too
at one point they were being deposed back to back by the janissary corps for not being paid enough until one sultan said enough and paid some other corp to butcher all the jannissaries

>>715967134
fucking why
they have a squillion robots

>>715966484
>Dark Souls
Now that I think about it, 2003 Grevious is a lot like a souls boss. Anyways my guy is still level 5, so hell no. Maybe if I'm allowed to level him up and get him some good equipment.

>>715965697
It's kind of the personality of Sith as a whole
Chasing goals that don't really accomplish anything, or pursuing POWAH to gain MORE POWAH and when they finally meet their end all you can say about them is 'Oh man he had SO MUCH POWAH though'

>>715967307
>wake up to the sound of the call to prayer
>cannonball rips through your room
not a fun way to find out you just got fired

>>715967334
It was one planet, and seemed to be a cultural practice more so than an economic one. Also, it was implied that it was to a great deal about the sex trade, although obviously even a PG13 cartoon couldn't just outright state that, especially given the context of the arc (anakin disguised himself as a slave trader and fucking sold Ahsoka to them)

>>715967168
I'm not talking about Caesar. I'm talking about when the senate had all of Caesar's most loyal friends killed.

>>715966484
>The Hero (AQW)
Yeah, pretty easily. 2003 Grievous is super cool, though.

>>715967307
On the topic of brainwashed caste of soldiers, I'm surprised janissaries rebellion weren't more common since they were formed from kidnapped Christian kids who were forced converted.

>>715966981
>Hated cyborgs
>His second in command and apprentice is a cyborg

>>715967545
Such purges were routinely done even when the throne was handed over peacefully. This is because the roman aristocracy was evil and insane.

>>715967291
Aayle Secura is walking alongside an AT-TE with the clones when they abruptly open fire on her, and keep firing when she goes down.
Ki Adi Mundi literally turns around questioning why they weren't following him.
Plo Koon is taken out by his wingmate.
All of these were on a battlefield, but none were currently engaged.

>>715967529
Ahsoka in general defies the PG13 rating, I remember going to see that 'movie' in cinema and you could clearly see her fucking nips poking through that tank top

>>715967697
Luke...

>>715967584
Well they were being kidnapped as babies to prevent that from happening and they had certain privileges that would make you think twice before giving up on them and going back to your own family 20 years later. By kidnapping older kids they would take an unnecessary risk. Kind of why Jedi didn't want to teach Anakin initially because he was too old for the brainwashing to be effective

Tikkatakkatikkatakkatikkatakka (Gets five kills)

>>715967697
No underwear in space, anon. Look at Leia and Padme.

>>715967291
>In response to a statement about how they can't see the future.
He was talking about a present event. That Clone Army was commissioned ten years prior and had been growing for that whole ten years. And during that time, none of them sensed that anything was wrong.

>>715958630 (OP)
get fucked clanker

>>715967334
Because Sheev likes being pointlessly evil. So he included the galaxy's only remaining slave empire in the CIS to make it more evil.

>>715958630 (OP)
Imagine clanker wife (male)

>>715967036
>The plot of your movies making sense does matter.
the plot is coherent, you don't like the logical steps it takes because you want star wars to be extremely bloated and overwrought with tedious explanations of things that don't matter to the story that is being told.
>The trilogy as a whole has very little spirituality shit outside of Luke's training on Dagobah.
and all of Obi Wan's scenes
and luke training on the falcon
and using the force to destroy the first death star
and the apparition of Ben on Hoth
and the dagobah training and the visions in the cave (only one of the most iconic scenes in all of star wars)
and luke only going to bespin at all because he sensed his friends in trouble there
and luke's duel with vader
and luke appearing as a jedi master in Jabba's palace
and luke confronting vader on Endor
and the entire throne room sequence
but yeah besides that there's basically no jedi shit in the OT

>>715967897
The Hutts weren't part or the CIS, nor was Trandosha.
Or the Ssi'ruuvi imperium, but that's barely referenced even in legends.

>play clones
>special units are jet trooper, rocket trooper, and jet rocket trooper

>play droids
>get BASED droideka and super battle droid

>>715967632
And Palpatine is an evil and insane aristocrat. My point is that its not unrealistic for soldiers to follow orders like that.

>>715967748
>Kind of why Jedi didn't want to teach Anakin initially because he was too old for the brainwashing to be effective
There is no brainwashing. Anakin turned because he is evil and stupid.

>>715967827
>He was talking about a present event.
Present NOW. The question was, how did they not sense it in advance?

>>715967697
Based George

>>715967748
Maybe I'm just looking at them with a very modern perspective, but surely some of them must have thought it was a bit fucked up even with all the privileges. That and it's doesn't seem very sustainable. Why not just use Muslim babies or war orphans as well instead of just kidnapping nonbelieversm

>>715968123
The question was how did they not sense it AT ALL.

>>715967950
>and the apparition of Ben on Hoth
>and the dagobah training and the visions in the cave (only one of the most iconic scenes in all of star wars)
>and luke confronting vader on Endor
>and the entire throne room sequence
These are the only overtly spiritual stuff you listed, and in the latter two cases, only partially. You seem to be confusing character relationship stuff with "jedi shit".

>>715968040
There is and he was too old for it to work which is why he didn't subscribe to that volcel monk ideology and refused to abandon his dying mother.

>>715967769
>Becomes unkillable

>>715967851
Can you add a clone trooper into this?

>>715968019
Tanky-ass Commando and his grenade launcher can really do some work
He's a deleter of lightsabre-faggots

>>715968024
>And Palpatine is an evil and insane aristocrat.
Yes, but just him. In the purges you refer to, everyone involved believed to be working either in their own interest or for their nation, or both. Nobody does something obviously fucking stupid without being compelled to somehow.

>>715968254
>There is
No, there isn't.
>which is why he didn't subscribe to that volcel monk ideology
Everyone in the order knew about Padme retard. Where Anakin fucked up is trusting that a sith lord based entirely on a series of bad dreams and baseless promises.

>>715968004
The Hutts didn't enslave people, they just bought slaves from the space Assyrians. At least that's what the episode with the space slave empire said. And I didn't know the Trandoshans were slavers, I thought they just hunted people for sport.

>>715968342
In the case of the clones, they know the order is in case the Jedi rebel, and they know the order is coming from the Supreme Chancellor, who they are unquestioningly loyal to. So if the Chancellor is issuing it then the Jedi must be rebelling, therefor killing them is necessary to the survival of the Republic and would be treason to disobey.

>>715968481
In legends, Trandoshans were a caste society that hunted religiously, but they essentially considered Wookies animals and top tier hunting sport. My understanding was that other races they would instead enslave and sell off.

>>715968207
Some did but most never knew their families because they were stolen as infants so there is no connection.
>why not use muslim babies
Why would you forcefully take away the babies of your own people when you can take the babies of your infidel slaves? Their holy book told them so because it's some blood tax on top of the monetary tax and it worked for centuries

>>715968232
>These are the only overtly spiritual stuff you listed
Everything I listed was stuff to do with the Jedi characters, who are the focal point of star wars because star wars is a heroic fantasy epic, not a scifi war story (in spite of the name). And we know it's a heroic fantasy epic because George Lucas has said as much a trillion times, and because the jedi scenes are always framed as being the most consequential in every lucas star wars movie.
Spirituality specifically is irrelevant. Are the lays of Helgi, Bane of Hunding just a nonstop visionquest from Odin? No, it's a dramatic tale about human heroes with spiritual elements sprinkled inside. What it isn't is a critical exegesis on the conflicts between the Geats and the Saxons.

>>715968441
>Everyone in the order knew about Padme retard
At most Obi Wan and Yoda knew, but Anakin didn't know that they knew. So he was trying to keep it a secret for fear that he'd be found out.

>>715968664
>and they know the order is coming from the Supreme Chancellor,
It literally came from "Sidious", whom they recognized as such, not the chancellor. It was ALWAYS mind control. TCW just explained the exact mechanics of how it worked, in way that was rational and satisfying. The clones would never ever kill the jedi based entirely on an order unless the jedi had actually rebelled, which they had not, and the clones had no reason to believe they had. George fucking MADE TCW. I can't believe we're still having this fucking argument like ten years later, you prequel zoomer faggots are so insufferable. Not everything you liked when you were 7 is actually good!

>>715968441
>Everyone in the order knew about Padme retard
even Obi Wan doesn't seem to fully realize it until the end of RotS, and he's around Anakin all the time. The fuck do you mean "everyone in the order knew"? Is this some dogshit EU retcon?

>>715968801
>Everything I listed was stuff to do with the Jedi characters,
Wasn't what we were talking about.
>not a scifi war story (in spite of the name)
Most of the OT is in fact a scifi war story. Just because the main characters do other shit doesn't change what most of the fucking run time of the movies is. Plus, in the OT, only two of the main characters are jedi, one of whom dies in act 2 of the first movie.

>>715968821
Blaming the order because Anakin did something horrifically stupid and evil to avoid the order finding out that he broke one of their rules makes him a bad character, not "defying brainwashing". The worst that could have possibly happened is him being kicked out.

>>715968951
>Wasn't what we were talking about.
It's always what I was talking about. You moved the goalposts to spirituality for some inexplicable reason.

>>715968840
Filoni Wars is bad, anon.
Filoni wanted good boy clones, so he needed an excuse for them to betray their "friends", even though they only weren't tools because he made them that way.

>>715968840
>It literally came from "Sidious", whom they recognized as such, not the chancellor.
They could just as easily be recognizing him as the Chancellor, or they could simply know the two are one and the same.
>George fucking MADE TCW.
Yeah, he changed his mind. He does that a lot. (see the special editions, the retcons in the prequels, and the changes to the dvd release of Phantom Menace, and all the minor lore changes he did in the Clone Wars like replacing the Trade Federation donut ships with those dumbbell ships.) George just decided later that he liked it better this way so he made the change.

>Insufficient effort to hide a relationship, going behind a big pillar is. Literal psychic powers everyone around you has. Retarded your children will be, inherited from the father.

>>715969053
The order took him away from his family when he was a small child and then pushed him into a deeply unhealthy and unnatural life style. Yes, everything he did is ultimately his fault, but its also the order's fault for creating that monster.

>>715968019
Why didn't the CIS just spam droidekas? Were they stupid?

>>715969070
>Filoni Wars is bad, anon.
It's got a lot of problems and his live action shows suck dick. Regardless, his CGI stuff is just better than the prequels in every way.
>so he needed an excuse for them to betray their "friends"
The clones had no rational reason to kill the jedi even if they weren't friends.
>>715969161
Cody specifically sees and immediately recognizes "lord Sidious" in ROTS. If the clones were already consciously aware that the senate chancellor was a sith, the jedi would have known.
>He does that a lot
Often for the better. You're not a yub nub apologist are you?

>>715958953
luv beth

>>715969286
>Look at this stupid motherfucker. Fuck the mind reading, does he think we can't hear him?

>>715969070
Filoni Wars is fine, anon. Its got its problems sure, but so do the movies. The whole series is a mixed bag.

>>715968840
>in way that was rational and satisfying.
The problem here is that you are too low IQ and ignorant of what you can achieve nowadays with just propaganda like some movies and TV shows let alone with an intensive program of brainwashing since infancy

>>715969302
Anakin's monstrous behavior stems from his rejection of the tenets of the jedi, not the tenets themselves. Yeah, people born with psychic powers probably should be taught self control and expected to keep in mind that they are not normal people and should avoid experiencing wild negative emotions.

>>715969412
>If the clones were already consciously aware that the senate chancellor was a sith, the jedi would have known.
Not if they were blinded to the whole plot by the force. The whole Prequel trilogy is basically a mythological tale where the gods give someone powers and then take them away because the guy was being an ass.

>>715969569
>Look at this stupid motherfucker.
And yet the stupid motherfucker in the pic thought it was a good idea to let anakin know they were going to bust his homie

>>715969807
Nothing in the prequels suggests that the jedi were "being an ass" or that they otherwise had in any way earned their defeat, nor has George himself said or implied that this was his creative intention. The jedi order did nothing wrong, and were beaten purely by the fact that Sheev was just that good.

>>715969883
Yeah, either let him know and bring him with them, or don't tell him and go deal with him yourself.

>>715959372
I genuinely do not get the Order 66 whining.

>>715969883
anakin was all for it
in fact anakin asked them to do it
then nigga decided to pop his ass on the spot

>>715967748
That jedi practice is more of a result of the Ruusan reformations which gave force sensitive children and Corstris mines to the order was basically set in stone. And of course it also likely came from the New Sith Wars in which the Jedi had to take them in as to prevent them from getting recruited by the various Sith princedoms.

>>715969883
The Jedi council only were going to arrest Palpatine because Anakin himself told them he was a sith lord and architect of the entire galactic war. Windu had no reason to believe that Anakin would tell him that and then turn around and defend Palpatine. Because that would be an insane, retarded thing to do. Little did Windu know, Anakin was an insane retard.

If Mace had just stabbed instead of gone for the big stupid overhead swing, he'd have erased six films

>>715969774
There's a difference between being taught self controlled and being forced into a friendless, possession-less, loveless life because you might get attached to something. Attachment is unavoidable. What they should be training is the ability to let go when needed, not trying to prevent attachments from ever forming. If Anakin had actually been taught how to cope with grief and allowed to love his wife in the open, then he never would've felt like his only option was to kill everyone for space satanist hitler just to save her life. She could've gotten proper medical treatment, he would never have gotten that trauma surrounding his mother, and if Padme did die, he would've been better equipped to move on and take care of his duties as a father and a Jedi.

>>715970001
Prequel fags who get salty that TCW had to clean up their soiled diapers.

What were the jedis planning to do after arresting the chancellor anyway? Put him on trial? With what evidence?
All they have is Anakin's word that Sheeve is the man playing both sides.

>>715969883
They finally let him in to the smoke circle on the grounds that he watch that bitch ass and make sure he wasn't an op. Then he told them that motherfucker was plannin to slide on their block, so finally told Anakin he was cool, and went to slide first. Anakin's bitch ass was the one that decided he'd rather keep his snowbunny bitch than keep his homies.

>>715959372
It's because most can't read and won't tell you stuff like the Plagueis novel that actually "fixed the prequels" and answers any questions in less time than seven seasons of TCW.

>>715970195
When you think about it, it's actually kind of fucked that the head of state could be arrested by religious zealots because they think he may be a member of the religion they don't like

But then that state also likes to install members of that religion as high ranking officers in the military, so its fucked all round

>>715969412
>The clones had no rational reason to kill the jedi even if they weren't friends.
They were indoctrinated and trained from infancy to follow orders. One of those orders included a contingency to eliminate the Jedi in case they betray the republic. The order was given, and rightfully so, as the Jedi attempted a coup via assassination. Remember, Windu refused to take the Supreme Chancellor alive because of his political influence.

>>715969953
The Jedi were corrupt and lost in dogma. That's why they left Anakin's mother to suffer on Tattooine, and why they allowed slavery to exist on a galactic scale, and why there were so many disaffected planets willing to rebel against the Jedi, and why Dooku left and turned to the dark side. The Jedi are synonymous with the western liberal view of organized religion, with them being well intentioned, but hamstrung by their laws and traditions, not being able to see the forest for the trees.

>>715970128
>There's a difference between being taught self controlled and being forced into a friendless, possession-less, loveless life because you might get attached to something.
Except that wasn't his life. The rules were
1. Accept that people die
2. No pussy
It's really not that hard. And if he couldn't take it, he was free to leave at literally any point.
>If Anakin had actually been taught how to cope with grief and allowed to love his wife in the open, then he never would've felt like his only option was to kill everyone for space satanist hitler just to save her life.
Why would he not think that? Remember, the entire basis for Anakin agreeing to work with Palpatine was that Palpatine said he could save Padme, and that the Jedi couldn't. That latter point was actually true. This means that the entire basis of Anakin betraying and murdering all the jedi was that he falsely believed that Palpatine could and would save Padme. And that lie would still work even if the jedi didn't have their rules, because Anakin is an idiot douchebag.

>>715970001
Like I said >>715962596 here, I just don't like that it turned the clones into fleshy droid and cut off possibility for more interesting stories and character developments. The control chip made sense with the direction Filoni wanted to take the clones, but it's just not as interesting as some of the stuff we had in legends.
I also hate the Bad Batch for being muh OC donut steels, but that's a different issue.

>>715970195
Windu also saw him kill 2 jedi enforcers and fought him. Sheev was fucked if Windu didn't try to kill him thus provoking Anakin into upholding the law and stopping him

The separatists were right but dooku was in the wrong

too many dookuaboo separatists left though

>>715970195
>With what evidence?
Forensic examination would reveal his communication with the CIS, especially Dooku. Sepratist leaders like Nute Gunray could testify that he was orchestrating their war efforts and providing them with information from inside the senate. The paper trail regarding funding of the initial round of clone soldiers would also lead back to Palpatine.

>>715970451
Yeah, Anakin was confirming suspicion they already have but fucking hell, they were acting on very flimsy evidence of
>Just trust me bro
>>715970812
That's not going to count much unless Windu was wearing a bodycam.

>>715970195
Him pulling a lightsaber and doing flying corkscrew attacks while screeching like a banshee is pretty damning evidence. It wouldn't have mattered though, he controlled the senate and the courts, they couldn't do anything to him illegally.

The Jedi plan was to arrest Sheev, seize control of the senate and the courts, and hold their own trial against him. Yoda and Mace said so during a conversation on what they'd do if Palpatine refused to step down after the war. This changed to executing him on the spot after Mace realized how strong he was.

>>715970497
>and rightfully so, as the Jedi attempted a coup via assassination.
They were attempting to detain the actual traitor to the republic.
>Windu refused to take the Supreme Chancellor alive because of his political influence.
Windu refused to take him alive because he could not be taken alive. He was a horrifically powerful sith lord. What, exactly could even hold him? Windu says it outright, he's too dangerous to be left alive, he was right.

>>715959372
ASSoka ruined that show by herself, there is no need to even mention other factors

>>715970136
The EU novels already made it canon that all clones were tempered with so Palps could override their minds if he wanted to. Having it be a literal chip doesn't make much of a difference.
>>715970195
In the ROTS book, Palpatine only gets the support from the senate that he does because he makes it appear as if the Jedi tried to murder him, using his messed up face as proof. There's no witnesses left to testify against him after the council moved in for the arrest, apart from Anakin, and before that point he already had quasi replaced the senate, using the war as excuse to stay in power much longer than he actually was allowed to (like Churchill and many others did in real life). And there's an entire faction of senators, led by Bail Organa, who opposed him. So presumably Bail's faction would've restored the senate and made it be in charge of the republic again, and Palps would've been arrested, trialed for literally causing the Clone Wars, and then publicly executed.
I highly recommend reading the ROTS novelization based on the original movie script, it's what the movie should've been.

>>715970927
Dooku was very cool though.

>>715970582
>The jedi are evil because they didn't go around the entire galaxy righting every wrong among trillions upon trillions of people
You're asking them to do the impossible. This idea is also not even suggested in any of the movies.
>and why there were so many disaffected planets willing to rebel against the Jedi
There are very few planets that have a negative opinion of the jedi. Almost all of those are because they have their own force traditions and do not want jedi interference.

>>715970451
Keep in mind that Sheev being a Sith lord means he's THE Sith lord that's behind everything. Since they've known there's a Sith orchestrating a plot against the Jedi and the Republic since the Phantom Menace, and there are only ever 2 sith. Since Dooku is dead, that leaves him as the only suspect, plus he has means, motive, opportunity, and a confession.

>>715971243
>there are only ever 2 sith
I don't know why they would even take that as a given

>>715966484
>Could the main character from the last game you played beat 2003 Grievous?
Force Unleashed II mary sue can beat Vader so yeah

>>715961027
Look at the Rothschilds

>>715965090
Does the order also include that from that moment on they have to refer to Sheev as lord?

>>715971150
>The jedi are evil because they didn't go around the entire galaxy righting every wrong among trillions upon trillions of people
I didn't say they were evil, I said they were arrogant and corrupt. They acted like the high and mighty saviors of the galaxy, but did scarcely little to help it. Instead spending all of their time playing politics with the senate and corporations.
>You're asking them to do the impossible. This idea is also not even suggested in any of the movies.
They could be something, but they're not. They didn't even help Anakin's mother when they could have so easily came back and bought her freedom.
>There are very few planets that have a negative opinion of the jedi.
Yet the a third of the galaxy was willing to take up arms against them during the clone wars. And instead of keeping the peace and trying to settle the dispute that caused the secession, they marched in to arrest all of its leaders and then lead a war against it.

>>715971243
>and there are only ever 2 sith
the rule of 2 was never mentioned in the movies or TCW and is certified bullshit cope
>anakin already turning
>dooku
>ventress
>maul and his brother
>fucking pong krell
>probably some others I'm forgetting about

>>715967769
>Gets on all sixes
>I'M CUMMING FOR YOU!!!
Damn Grievous be zesty af

>>715967334
You can ask about slavery in entire setting, they could just use droids instead but there slaves everywhere in each era

Yoda would have stopped Windu from chimping out if he just stayed on Coruscant.
Windu fucked up big time by not consulting him first or putting the rest of the Order on high alert and spreading the word about Sidious' identity. His coup was so hasty and sloppily done. He deserved to fail.

>>715958630 (OP)

What's the equivalent of "the Confederates would have saved pregnant Anne Frank" in the Star Wars universe?

>>715971749
the other slop couldn't do it but this one made me acquire a new fetish for my collection. fuck you

>>715971079
>I highly recommend reading the ROTS novelization based on the original movie script, it's what the movie should've been.
Already did and, again, the council didn't really have a plan on how they'll expose Palpatine, just that they'll need to control the senate in order to make his removal permanent.
>"Have you considered," Ki-Adi-Mundi said carefully, from faraway Mygeeto, "that if Palpatine refuses to surrender power, removing him is only a first step?"
>Mace looked at the blue ghost of the Cerean Master. "I am not a politician. Removing a tyrant is enough for me."
>"But it will not be enough for the Republic," Ki-Adi-Mundi countered sadly. "Palpatine's dictatorship has been legitimized-and can be legalized, even enshrined in a revised Constitution-by the supermajority he controls in the Senate."
>The grim future inside Mace's head turned even darker. The Cerean was right.
>"Filled with corruption, the Senate is," Yoda agreed from Kashyyyk. "Controlled, they must be, until replaced the corrupted Senators can be, with Senators honest and-"
>"Do you hear us?" Mace lowered his head into his hands. "How have we come to this? Arresting a Chancellor. Taking over the Senate-! It's as though Dooku was right-to save the Republic, we'll have to destroy it . . ."

>>715971141
ventress would disagree

>>715971647
>I didn't say they were evil, I said they were arrogant and corrupt.
And you're still wrong. The fact that they aren't galaxy spanning space cops actually goes to show they are specifically avoiding allowing their power to go to their heads. If anything they were TOO modest, TOO afraid of their own strength.
>Instead spending all of their time playing politics
They do not get involved with such things
>They could be something, but they're not. They didn't even help Anakin's mother
You keep repeating this as if you're making a point. You're not. Anakin also could have done it, at any point. He doesn't blame them for her death, he blames his own lack of power.
>Yet the a third of the galaxy was willing to take up arms against them during the clone wars.
No, they took up arms against the republic.

>>715971764
It wasn't a coup and was the right move. It also would have been fine if Anakin hadn't betrayed them for stupid reasons.

>>715970772
>1. Accept that people die
>2. No pussy
Its stated explicitly that attachment is forbidden.
>he was free to leave at literally any point.
And yet leaving the order is treating as a horrible life ending ordeal, because Jedi have literally no life outside of the order to fall back to if they're expelled. Of course he's going to be apprehensive about leaving if its all he's ever known.
>Remember, the entire basis for Anakin agreeing to work with Palpatine was that Palpatine said he could save Padme, and that the Jedi couldn't.
And the basis for that was the trauma relating to his mother, whom he was only a day late to save. Had the Jedi allowed him to go back and help her she would have survived, and he never would have developed the deep seated fear of loss. As well as the secrecy meaning he couldn't ever ask the Jedi if they did have anything that could help. For all we know they could have saved Padme, or at least put in a good effort. But because Anakin was already conditioned to distrust the Jedi with these matters, he turned to the one person he did trust with these matters instead, Sheev.

>>715971872

>>715970959
See, that's a good plan and a perfect way to go about it, but it wasn't the council's plan. The council was just going to go up to him and place him under arrest with no (concrete) evidence.
The Jedi really deserved everything they got coming to them.

>>715960167
>Brain chips are the only way order 66 makes any fucking sense at all.

"I have zero fucking knowledge of the history of the 20th Century" - The Post

>>715972148
nice bolt-ons, bitch

>>715972142
NTA but Grievous was dead and the war was basically over. Mace fucked up by rushing. They could have taken their time, gather more support, or at least go back to the temple to get some sort of recording device, instead they just charged in and gave Palpatine the excuse he needed to enact Order 66.

>>715971043
Yes, too dangerous, because of his political influence. Not because he's a physical threat after being detained.

>>715971749
I never realized the potential for those two things behind their head to act as cute droopy ears.

>>715972147
>Its stated explicitly that attachment is forbidden.
The jedi openly have deep and meaningful friendships. It's just that, when they die, you have to accept that they're dead.
>And yet leaving the order is treating as a horrible life ending ordeal, because Jedi have literally no life outside of the order to fall back to if they're expelled.
Yeah, whatever is a hyper competent star pilot with literal super powers to do.
>Had the Jedi allowed him to go back and help her she would have survived, and he never would have developed the deep seated fear of loss.
How would letting him indulge in his desires allow him to overcome the fear of loss? Plus, it's not like he was specifically barred from going back to tatooine, he literally never even asked.
>For all we know they could have saved Padme,
They couldn't. Nor could Sidious. Partly because she was not actually in danger from anything but Anakin himself.
>he turned to the one person he did trust
A man he trusted for literally no reason, even after he revealed himself to be a deeply untrustworthy person.

>>715972241
The chips was Filioni's dumb way of keeping his favorites clones like Rex. Also, kinda odd that the post chip clones act more like from the movies and the cwmmp.

>>715971368
Thousands of years of experience in dealing with them. They know the Sith just like the know themselves.
>>715971657
the end of phantom menace, during the funeral scene
>Always two there are, a master and an apprentice.
>But which did we kill? The master or the apprentice?
>*cut to close up of Palpatine's face*

>>715972241
"You don't know anything about history", says the retarded fag who thinks that the people executing the night of the long knives didn't know exactly why they were killing those they were killing, or didn't already want to do it.

>>715972142
It was 100% a coup.

>>715971503
I wouldn't be surprised if he already started requiring people to address him as lord before order 66. He already had absolute authority over the republic by that point.

>>715972451
No it was absolutely because of his physical danger, his power with the force. He literally could not be detained. Every guard would bend to his will, no physical structure or substance would resist him. He needed to die, right then and there.

>>715972142
>attacking a head of state to remove him from power and put the government in the hand of a senate that's more aligned with their ideal
How is that not a coup.

>>715972553
>traitors to the republic who enacted a coup and assassination attempt against the rightfully elected leader of the republic

>>715972346
>and gave Palpatine the excuse he needed to enact Order 66.
Palpatine gave the order without explanation, and was going to do it around them irrespective of whether the council tried to arrest him or not.

>>715972513
Just seems daft to assume even after centuries the 'rule' would still be in force and no Sith would ever say 'yeah no I'll train however many I want'

Imagine us acting like knowledge of how one religion or culture acts from two thousand years ago is still reliable and accurate today

>>715972649
They had no authority to arrest him, let alone for Windu to unilaterally decide that deadly force was required. A fellow Jedi Council member, Anakin, was literally stating otherwise and attempting a legal solution.

>>715972656
>>715972673
Palpatine orchestrated the clone wars, retards. He was the worst traitor in the history of the republic. Of course arresting him was legally justified, it's not treason or even sedition to do so.

>>715972717
The order WAS the explanation, Order 66 was the destruction of the Jedi order in case they became a threat to the republic or attempted to seize control. Which they were, and did.

>>715972717
>Palpatine gave the order without explanation
He didn't need to explain shit to the clones, he knew they were loyal to him, but he still need something to justify to the senate. They weren't going to just accept him killing off all the jedis at the end of the war with no evidence. Mace attacking him in his office and scarring was the perfect proof.

>>715972801
>Of course arresting him was legally justified, it's not treason or even sedition to do so.
your underage is showing

>>715972789
>They had no authority to arrest him,
They had a duty to the republic. Because of Anakin, a mass murderer escaped justice and billions more would die. Anakin also admitted in that very scene that his legal concerns were a flimsy excuse for his real rationale: he believed he needed Sidious to save Padme. Because he's stupid.

>>715963776
>The Clone Wars had to humanize the clones so the audience could empathize with them as the protagonists, so that meant the old organic droid thing didn't work anymore.

If anything the brain chips made them even more into meat robots and even less relatable by completely depriving them of any agency. Not to mention it's an utter copout and the equivalent of literary cowardice.

>>715965013
>No, they weren't. Nothing in the movies suggests this.

>"We modified their genetic structure to make them more docile and less Independent than the original host"
>screen pans down to show clone children undergoing brainwashing program

-Episode II couldn't have spelled it out for you any clearer stupid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXLQaVgCP_Q

>>715972069
>You're not. Anakin also could have done it, at any point.
No he couldn't. They wouldn't let him go. He's angry that he couldn't use his force powers to make her live.
>No, they took up arms against the republic.
Which they Jedi were the sworn protectors of.
>They do not get involved with such things
All of the phantom menace, the border dispute which Anakin and Obi wan had just come back from in Attack of The Clones, and all the scenes of them going back and forth with the senate disagree.

You never hear about them helping the starving or the poor or freeing slaves. Only ever about them resolving border disputes, fighting robot armies, and saving senators. They were the Republic's enforcers by the time of the prequels, not the benelovent space monks they claimed to be.

>>715972801
You know that as an outside observer. Windu may have assumed as much, but solely based on the report of Anakin, and he made every decision to assassinate Palpantine without legal authority or oversight of any kind.
They needed a trial to prove his guilt, as they literally only had hearsay from one young man.

>>715972887
If they were willing to accept him killing ten thousand people because his face looked a little fucked up, he could have just lied about the attempt to arrest him and they would have accepted that too. Hell, that was probably his plan.
>>715972890
You're the one defending fucking ROTS. Although that pegs you in your mid 20s, not underaged.

>>715972801
You only know that because you're watching the movie. The people in the story has no idea he was behind everything, in their eyes, it was 100% an attempt at a coup.

>>715972895
They did not have the authority to arrest a senator without charge, let alone murder him. Being a sith isnt illegal.

>>715972932
Being genetically modified to make them more loyal and dependent doesn't mean that they are "basically droids". They would be shit soldiers if they didn't still have human cognitive capacities.
>Not to mention it's an utter copout
It's the only rational explanation for why the clones would suddenly decide do to something obviously bad for the republic.

>>715967134
That was one race, and they still practiced it even after the Empire formed.

>>715972994
>You're the one defending fucking ROTS. Although that pegs you in your mid 20s, not underaged.
This is the first time I posted anything itt. And im 34 thanks, either way you are very, very naive

>>715973071
It WASNT obviously bad for the Republic, to all outside perspectives, the Jedi sent an assassin against the Supreme Chancellor of the republic and attempted a coup.
That's the brilliance of the plan, Palpatine won the moment they tried to take him out.

>>715972948
>No he couldn't. They wouldn't let him go.
Nothing in the movie says this and he blames himself for his mother's death, not them.
>Which they Jedi were the sworn protectors of.
Irrelevant to the political conflict which was between the separatists and the republic senate.
>All of the phantom menace, the border dispute which Anakin and Obi wan had just come back from in Attack of The Clones, and all the scenes of them going back and forth with the senate disagree.
Those are planetary scale conflicts which could result in the death and suffering of millions, not the minutiae of cultural practices in the outer rim.

>>715972718
Read the Bane Trilogy. They knew about Bane and him training an apprentice. (of course they mistaken him for Zannah's cousin and the healer dude) But they didn't know the importance of having only 2 per the mandate of the Order of the Sith Lords. They probably thought that Bane was going to form another sith army, like how Set Harth assumed when meeting Zannah.

>>715972553
>people executing the night of the long knives didn't know exactly why they were killing those they were killing

The purge was planned with the highest secrecy, Hitler and the SS were so successful at it that Röhm was literally caught pounding boypussi in bed during his arrest. The immediate perpetrators (the people doing the actual arrests and executions) were mostly kept in the dark until the very last moment.

>>715972985
>Windu may have assumed as much,
Once Sidious pulled a lightsaber and slaughtered three jedi council members, he had revealed his hand. Windu also genuinely intended to arrest and investigate Palpatine until realizing, correctly, that even detaining him during an investigation would be impossible.
>as they literally only had hearsay from one young man.
He literally just slaughtered three jedi masters with a red lightsaber, are you seriously suggesting this isn't enough information for Windu to conclude he must be Dooku's master?

>>715973054
Being a sith isn't illegal, but him being a sith proves that he orchestrated the clone wars, which is very fucking illegal.
>>715973008 see >>715973307
Windu knew Sidious was behind everything.
>>715973172
The arrest attempt wasn't even communicated to the clones.

>>715973290
Of course the plot was highly secret, otherwise it would have failed. But do you think anyone who participated in it had mixed feelings about it? They were slaughtering their domestic enemies and rivals. They'd wanted to do this for years.

>>715972513
how the fuck does that prove there are only 2 sith at a time when I named 5 and a half sith besides sheev that were alive at the same time
qui-gon was also the master and kenobi the apprentice. does that mean there are only 2 jedi? obviously fucking not. it meant there was at least 1 more sith out there. in no way does that quote imply that somehow there is a rule making sure there are exactly 2 sith alive at any given moment.
sounds like some wikifag is looking too deep into it and trying to find hidden meaning
>but the empire from thousands of years ago
had an entire planet full of sith

>successfully kill Palpy
>now you have to explain to the galaxy why your religious order had to assassinate their beloved supreme chancellor
>and why you now need to take control of the Senate and purge it of all dissent, critics, and opponents of your religion

>>715972471
>The jedi openly have deep and meaningful friendships. It's just that, when they die, you have to accept that they're dead.
Quite contradictory of them saying that attachment is forbidden, isn't it. Seems like an act of hypocrisy to me.
>Yeah, whatever is a hyper competent star pilot with literal super powers to do.
How would he know what to do? He's never known a life outside of the Jedi giving him orders and taking care of his needs. Just because he has skills doesn't mean he has direction or any idea of where to apply them for his own benefit.
>How would letting him indulge in his desires allow him to overcome the fear of loss?
He never would have developed deep seated trauma around his mother being tortured to death by sand people and dying in his arms because he showed up a day late, and never would've been so enraged by the sight that he slaughtered that whole village of sand people.
>Plus, it's not like he was specifically barred from going back to tatooine, he literally never even asked.
He explicitly defied orders to go there, and got chewed out by his superiors the instant they found out. Besides you said so yourself, why would they allow him to go and indulge in his attachments. Obviously they wouldn't let him take a day off to go do that.
>They couldn't.
This all happened specifically because Sidious had been socially engineering him for years and playing off his bad parenting by the Jedi to make him susceptible to manipulation.
>A man he trusted for literally no reason
He's the supreme chancellor of the republic and has been close to him since he was a small child. Anakin says himself that Palpatine is like a father to him (the same thing he says about Obi Wan). Palpatine is the only person who ever treated him warmly or tended to his emotional needs, while all the cold and emotionless Jedi sternly told him to suck it up whenever he came to them with a problem. Especially Obi Wan and Mace. Obi Wan was unqualified to teach a student.

>>715973709
the jedi would have probably been even more fucked if he won since there would be no empire to hate, and a guaranteed witch hunt after them by the people.

>>715973709
>now you have to explain to the galaxy why your religious order had to assassinate their beloved supreme chancellor
"He personally trained Count Dooku and orchestrated the clone wars and got millions of people killed and burned through quadrillions of tax payer credits to consolidate power"
"He also had the same psychic powers we do and so was almost certainly manipulating the outcome of senate votes that he was constantly present at"

>>715972718
You can call that a silly expectation, but Star Wars in a fairy tale in space. You're supposed to take things at face value when they say them even if they don't make sense. You can call that bad writing, but then its no longer a discussion of what happened in the story, but what should have happened.

>>715973071
>It's the only rational explanation for why the clones would suddenly decide do to something obviously bad for the republic.

They weren't loyal to the Republic in the sense that say, an American soldier is loyal to America. When the American soldier swears to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States, he's not just swearing loyalty to the document, but the values behind it as well as the American people (whose collective will is presumably embodied by the document, at least in theory). The clone soldier of the Grand Army may nominally swear to uphold the Republic's constitution, but not the value system behind it because he's completely divorced from it. He did not grow up on Naboo or Coruscant where he would have absorbed those values from an early age, nor does he have a say in its policies with his ballot (or else the clones would be the largest voting bloc in the galaxy). He grew up in the sterile halls of Kamino, for whom the Republic was this abstract that he had to be loyal to on pain of death. He is not loyal to the Republic because he considers himself part of it or because he believes in its values, but because he is told to. He is in essence, a spiritual mercenary.

>>715960167
Bro the army would execute you and your whole new age cult if they knew you tried to kill the president

>>715973071
Droids have human cognitive capabilities.

>>715958630 (OP)
Fucking clinker.

>>715973793
>Quite contradictory of them saying that attachment is forbidden, isn't it.
No, it just means they have a very narrow definition of "attachment". It is fine to love things, you just must accept they are transient.
>How would he know what to do?
He could do whatever he wants. He also has the competency to try lots of different things and figure out what he likes.
>or any idea of where to apply them for his own benefit.
He spent most of his time outside of the temple, he's not ignorant of the wider world and has above average understanding of the galaxy and its economy.
>He never would have developed deep seated trauma around his mother being tortured to death by sand people
Instead he would learn the lesson that the first thing you should do if you even suspect someone you care about is in trouble is to immediately drop anything important you're doing and go check on them. I'm sure that would have the intended effect.
>This all happened specifically because Sidious had been socially engineering him for years and playing off his bad parenting by the Jedi to make him susceptible to manipulation.
No, it happened because Anakin is a fucking idiot who believed a baseless lie.
>He's the supreme chancellor of the republic
Who had revealed to him in that very scene that he was a sith lord, and thus, by his association with Dooku, the true architect of the clone wars. Someone willing and able to fool the entire galaxy, someone who had betrayed his last apprentice to death at Anakin's own hands, rather than break his binds and rise to Dooku's defense. And for no reason at all, Anakin puts his faith in this demon.

any chads in here still have their old clone wars figures?

>>715973175
>Irrelevant to the political conflict which was between the separatists and the republic senate.
Its very relevant when the Jedi show up to crush your rebellions and you have to fight them to maintain independence.
> not the minutiae of cultural practices in the outer rim.
Slavery on a multi planetary scale is hardly minutiae of cultural practices either

>Day 1000 of the 3-Parsec Special Military Operation to de-Separate the Outer Rim
>Acclamator and Venator classes functionally extinct, Republic Navy is forced to pull increasing numbers of Mandalorian Wars-era Hammerhead and Interdictor-class cruisers from scrapyards on Raxus Prime to make up for losses
>Republic’s flagship, the Centurion-class battlecruiser Ravager, was destroyed after the CIS successfully distracted the crew with a sign reading “Force users here, free food” and launched a proton torpedo into its exposed core
>culture of institutionalized ass rape has permeated every level of the Grand Army of the Republic, buzz droids have been recorded dropping thermal detonators on clone troopers sucking each others’ dicks at least 66 times in the last week
>it’s been a year since General Anakin Skywalker was killed when his shuttle mysteriously exploded shortly after he led the convicted rapists of the 501st Legion in a failed coup against Palpatine, claiming that he was a Sith Lord, getting to the very gates of Coruscant and completely routing Palpatine’s vaunted clone shock troopers before Jabba the Hutt negotiated a truce
>Milblogger, Republican shill, and convicted pedophile Dave Filoni was detained by clone troopers on suspicion of being a Separatist spy and subsequently gang-raped to death
>AT-TEs are regularly destroyed by Hailfire droids despite being equipped with cope force fields
>so many Borg volunteers sent to help retake Naboo oblast have been killed that the Borg Queen has ordered the survivors pulled off the frontlines (having to fight off Wookie blocking detachments who try to rape them) and sent back to the Delta Quadrant
>despite all of this, Chancellor Palpatine is confident that a complete Republic victory is a mere two parsecs away and that everyone should "trust the Grand Plan" due to flow of supplies from the UNSC to the CIS being recently slowed following the election of Lord Hood on an isolationist platform

>>715973428
You're one dense motherfucker, huh. Windu learning that Sheev was Palpatine changes absolutely nothing to the general public because he never revealed that information to other people before he attacked the chancellor.
Windu only knows Sheev is the Sith Lord because Anakin told him. That’s it. It confirms their SUSPICION. But that’s all they had. Just Anakin’s word. No voice recordings, no datalogs, no intercepted messages, no surveillance footage, nothing that could actually hold up as real evidence.
Yeah, Palpatine showed his true colors when they tried to arrest him, but who saw that? Were there any security cams? Any recordings? Any neutral witnesses? No. And if Mace had actually listened to Anakin and brought Palpatine in alive, they might have been able to build a real case, gather evidence, and expose him publicly. But he didn’t.
So, to the public, it’s just four jedi masters storming into the chancellor’s office, attacking him, then Anakin Skywalker the war hero stepped in and took them down.
We the viewers know that Mace was trying to deal with the main evil behind the whole war, but in-universe no one knew what the fuck was going on outside of the jedi just suddenly attacking the chancellor for no reason.
I don't know how I can make this clearer that what the jedi did was, to the public's eyes, an attempt at a coup.

>>715973505
>how the fuck does that prove there are only 2 sith at a time when I named 5 and a half sith besides sheev that were alive at the same time
No one except Dooku and Sheev were sith at the time. The rest didn't even exist when the movie was made, and weren't sith in the cartoon series. Ventress was an assassin and former Jedi, Savage was also just an assassin with a lightsaber, Krell was an evil Jedi, and Maul was not a part of the Sith any more, even if he still considered himself one. Anakin wouldn't become a Sith until after he killed Mace.
>qui-gon was also the master and kenobi the apprentice. does that mean there are only 2 jedi?
No, but Yoda saying "always two there are" does mean that.
>sounds like some wikifag is looking too deep into it and trying to find hidden meaning
It is plainly apparent that's what they meant when you watch the movie.
>had an entire planet full of sith
In the books, not in the movie written by George

>>715973992
"Sure he did, and I bet he created the clone army under a dead Jedi's name just so he could have an army after the war started and pin the blame on the Jedi. And I'm sure all the evidence of this just magically disappeared because of his schemes too."

>>715973992
>you mean the same powers you could be using right now, after having assassinated a political rival?

>>715974735
>Windu learning that Sheev was Palpatine changes absolutely nothing to the general public because he never revealed that information to other people before he attacked the chancellor.
That's because they hadn't finished their investigation yet. Palpatine admitted his guilt to Anakin, Anakin told Windu, Windu went to arrest Palpatine so that they could do an investigation, Windu arrested arrest. Even lying on his back he was trying to fry Windu with lightning.
>Windu only knows Sheev is the Sith Lord because Anakin told him.
No, he knows it because Palpatine drew his own lightsaber an killed three jedi masters in less than ten seconds. Windu had not even considered killing Palpatine until that happened; if the goal was assassination, they would not have walked through the front door and demanded surrender.
>Yeah, Palpatine showed his true colors when they tried to arrest him, but who saw that? Were there any security cams? Any recordings? Any neutral witnesses? No.
Windu probably would have been fucked if Anakin had let him kill Sidious. He was willing to sacrifice his reputation, his career, and even his life for the galaxy. That's what being a jedi means. It's a kind of sacrifice Anakin wasn't willing to make.
>And if Mace had actually listened to Anakin and brought Palpatine in alive, they might have been able to build a real case, gather evidence, and expose him publicly.
That was the plan. But Sidious resisted arrest, because he was guilty.

But even in the hypothetical situation where Windu killed Palpatine and had to suffer the fallout from that... why would anyone consider that a coup attempt? It was one senator. What would be the plan to gain power after that?

>>715975164
>Sure he did, and I bet he created the clone army under a dead Jedi's name just so he could have an army after the war started and pin the blame on the Jedi.
The jedi literally have the paper trail proving this is true.
>>715975243
Certainly concerning, but if the jedi didn't follow up Palpatine's death with a power play of their own, and instead just told the senate, "now pick a new chancellor please, we're going to go finish off the CIS", the senate would have no reason to be suspicious.

>>715974437
>It is fine to love things, you just must accept they are transient.
Anakin's conversation with Padme in episode 2 implies that the only "love" Jedi are allowed to have is compassion, which is very different from the care a Padawan has for his Master.
>He could do whatever he wants. He also has the competency to try lots of different things and figure out what he likes.
Physical competency yes, mental competency no. He could very easily end up like those homeless veterans who crumble the instant their taken out of the highly structured environment of the military. Not to mention how bad they've conditioned him to see leaving the Jedi order as. He has a very strong attachment to the Jedi order and his position in it. The Jedi should have taught him that his connection to the Jedi is an attachment like any other that can and should be broken when necessary.
>Instead he would learn the lesson that the first thing you should do if you even suspect someone you care about is in trouble is to immediately drop anything important you're doing and go check on them
That's a healthy way to deal with things anon. If you're having a family emergency you should go deal with that before dealing with other things.
>No, it happened because Anakin is a fucking idiot who believed a baseless lie.
Because he was desperate, out of options, and trusted Sheev. Had the Jedi not backed him into this corner there may have been a better way out than "fuck it, kill everyone"

>>715961414
Dont think about it too much. George Lucas, being the product of the American Education System and Boomer that he is, has only the most surface level understanding of history and politics. I'd bet that im his mind that the CIS secessionists are bad is because the Republic is a democracy, and only evil people oppose democracy.

>>715974489
I have my legos around here somewhere. Never got into the action figures.

>>715975545
> jedi literally have the paper trail proving this is true
Do they? Obviously the audience knows its true, but what proof do the Jedi have beyond conjecture and hearsay? If anything, the Kaninoans believe the Jedi order sanctioned the creation of the GAR through a Jedi Master, and nothing directly ties it to Sidious except indirectly through Doolu's confession to Obi Wan.

>>715976007
I remember when I was in middle school going to Disneyland with my family and we stopped at a LEGO store there. They had a clone walker tank from episode 2 and it was like 150.00 or 200.00 or something. Can’t remember just remember thinking how and I wanted it but it was too unreasonably expensive to ask for. Bastards

why didnt the jedi just get ventress to publically denounce count dooku and expose his crimes?

she's trusted by separatist leadership, theres no reason why they wouldnt at least try even if it didnt do anything

>>715976169
I had a few similar experiences, but it was just after the 2008 crash and my dad had lost his job. So them telling me no for a $200 toy was reasonable.

>>715976341
>she's trusted by separatist leadership
Is she? Do they even know who she is? The only people she's ever shown to deal with are Dooku, Grevious, and the Separatist Council, who were all in on the scheme. To my knowledge she never speaks to the the separatist senate at all.

>>715976017
>Do they?
Yes, they have the records of the original clone army being ordered by Sifo Dyas and "Tyrannus", was revealed at the very ass end of the clone wars to be Dooku. The Kaminoans would be forthcoming with their end of the paperwork too, as they would want to clear their names and make clear that they thought everything was above board.

>>715976341
>ventress
wasn't she supposed to be some sekrit analman or something?

>>715976519
an old general knows who she is, but her being known is most likely limited to the military only

>>715976341
The jedi never even had custody of Ventress, at least more than transiently, and she was an unknown figure in galactic politics.

>>715963776
>>715965013
Clones were much much more inhuman than any droid.

Droids soldiery backtalk their superiors when disrespected. They know fear of death. They can disobey orders. They have morale. They cheer when things are going well. They are gripped by patriotic fervor.

In short, droids have all the qualities necessary to be considered sentient life. They are not deficient in any way. The only ways they might be regarded as less qualified is due to their youth, often having been produced just a few short years before action.
Immaturity, not having less capacity to understand right from wrong, ponder existence etc.

Clones, meanwhile, going by the movies, simply do not show us they are capable of deeper thought. They are machines, not droids. They simply follow their programming to the letter. They are modified to do this. This is baked into their genetic code by devious new age clone shapers that clearly have a screw loose.

They are a much more terrible weapon of war than droids due to this, who can fail in all the ways *humans* fail as soldiers.

Clones are not humans. If one is to criticize the TCW show for anything, it's that its creators fundamentally disliked and disregarded this core plot point, and thus had to retcon clone capacity and function to better suit the needs of the story.

Humanizing clones was a mistake. They are not humans.

>>715976615
The only proof of Dooku being Tyrannus is eye witness testimony from Jedi.

>>715958880
Starwars droids all come with personality. There's not a single machine droid. Gaining a personality is "baked in".
Feds use a ship to directly influence them in 1, but ultimately this is impractical in full wartime

>>715976408
I looked it up and I may have been thinking of the clone drop ship which was apparently 89.99 so either I misremembered the price or Disney was up charging but bro in 2002/2003 89.99 for a fucking ship is still crazy. I think minimum wage back then was like 6.00


>2008
Yeah our family never really recovered from that. Long story but it was all downhill after that. Dad was in debt until he passed. It’s sad but I later found out it happened to a lot of families who lost their job or house or both. We went from upper middle class to probably just middle class but paycheck to paycheck with my dad taking out loans constantly and cycling through credit cards. Never knew any of it until he passed not too long again and I had to go through his stuff.

They really fucked the world overnight somehow. Dad had a great job and his company got bought out not long after 2008. Then he survived layoff rounds for a while. Then got let off too. And basically hopped from job to job every few years. Went from a stable company that took care of him super well to being an overworked contractor afraid to even take off a sick day. just the world we live in.

>>715976787
>Clones, meanwhile, going by the movies, simply do not show us they are capable of deeper thought.
It's pure headcanon. It was never true even in the old EU. The only reason you think this is because it justifies your completely irrational hatred of the brain chips. The clones were simply not focused on in the movies and have extremely little dialogue. They are humans, they always were humans.

>>715976787
I wouldn't go that far. They're humans, but humans can be die hard loyal to a horrifying degree if conditioned properly. Think like those cultists that mass suicide because the cult leader says so, or all those Japanese soldiers who charged into machine gun fire with swords and bayonets for the sake of honor. The clones are that, minus any attachments to stuff outside of their life in the military. They have no family, only fellow soldiers, no ideals to fight for beyond loyalty and duty, no home to go back to, no life after the war, just being decommissioned..

>>715971243
>and there are only ever 2 sith
This shit is so fucking stupid it hurted the series for the rest of time.

>actual sheev apologists exist
What causes this retardation?

>>715977020
Films are a visual medium. You show that which is important, and you omit that which is important to omit.

Droids are repeatedly shown to experience the full range of human emotion throughout starwars. George certainly considers r2 and c3p0 to be fully fledged human characters with agendas, likes and dislikes, regarding his writing structure. They are respected by the author, not regarded as appliances except by bigoted people.

B1 battle droids are exactly as capable from an intelligence standpoint. They might be limited by hardware but they feel the same emotions.

We cannot say the same about clones. On the contrary, they are repeatedly shown on screen engaging in brutal oppression and purges that highlight their coldness, their detached, inhuman and faceless nature and their efficiency in doing so.

The extended slaughter sequences are part of this characterization. It shows us their nature.
They are never ever humanized, and only ever shown doing efficient, robotic things. A clone is never humiliated, is never scared, is never tricked or doing stupid things. They are never happy nor are they sad or flee due to weakness. They die where they stand. They are not humans.

This has little to do with brain chips and everything to do with the nature of the work. Droids are human, clones are not.

>>715976993
>or both
We were in that category, we had to move to a trailer after that. Dad had 20 years of experience and skill and they just threw him away. And when he did find another job it was an entry level position in the field he was an expert in. So he was forced to all the really hard manual labor in his late 40s and work 12 hour shifts like an uncertified guy with no experience.
> with my dad taking out loans constantly and cycling through credit cards
Us getting fucked on the mortgage lead to my parents swearing off debt as a concept. If we couldn't buy with cash or debit, we just did without. I still live by this principle today, debt is a bad idea unless you're investing.

Needless to say, I just had to be content with the little ten dollar box with five rebel soldiers and a speeder in it. And to be happy with the PS2 version of Force Unleashed.

>>715977340
Palpatine already breaks that rule a shit ton both in canon and Legends.

>>715977582
would

>>715976787
>Droids soldiery backtalk their superiors when disrespected. They know fear of death. They can disobey orders. They have morale. They cheer when things are going well. They are gripped by patriotic fervor.

Fucking hated that even more than the brain chips. The droids are supposed to be unthinking automatons who will march straight into gunfire without so much as flinching, not a bunch of quirky chunguses.

>>715977707
Why would siths follow any rules in the first place? What? The head of Sith HR is going to fire you if you have more than one apprendice?

>>715977777

>>715977826
NEWFAG ALERT

>>715977517
I don't think anyone here is apologizing for Sheev. They're just pointing out that Sheev had put the Jedi in a no win scenario. Either they commit treason to remove him from office or they let him stay and kill them all. There is no way to legally remove him from office any more.

>>715977582
I’m not the anon youre talking to but it’s literally impossible to know if droids in starwars feel the same emotions as a human. Even other aliens in starwars can possibly feel emotions differently. Droids might have some abstract sense of something that resembles human emotions but it could never be the same. Arguably much if not most of what a human feels is biological and chemical driven. A droid could seem afraid trying to avoid death yet at the same time it would just make sense for something programmed for self preservation to act in a manner that to an outside observer could be mistaken for fear. I don’t 100 percent disagree with your clone stuff though. humans have dulled emotions from taking anti depressants and other stuff. The clones were bred for loyalty and I don’t doubt they were edited perhaps to not feel as much emotion. pretty sure they were specifically made to follow orders and that the ARC troopers have more of a temper. Not going as far as to say they can’t think deeply about certain things but they may or may not feel emotions to the same degree as a normal person if they fucked with them chip or no chip

>>715976701
>get free of the sith
>jedi eventually pardon you
>good job as a bounty hunter
>empire doesnt even know who you are
>public doesnt even know who you are
>free to do what you want, just may be mistaken as a jedi
she got the best outcome

>>715966432
aye this

>>715977779
>The droids are supposed to be unthinking automatons who will march straight into gunfire without so much as flinching, not a bunch of quirky chunguses.
You say that, but they've been this was since the original trilogy. Only in secondary media were they ever portrayed how you describe. Not that they won't march straight into gunfire, they'll just complain while they do it.

>>715977825
The rules are more of a best practice than a moral set of rules. Having more than one apprentice means more infighting, more people you have to control, and more plots on your life. One apprentice is the best number.

>>715958630 (OP)
Imagine being a bunch of rich aliens who spend billions of credits to make AI fight for you. The outter rim had a larger population than the core too. You mean to tell me nobody wanted to fight for independence from the senate?

>>715978220
That's nice and all, but I have ten apprendices, and we will kill you and your lone apprendice and take your shit.

>>715977997
Humans in star wars may not feel emotion in the same way we do, since they have the force irrevocably tied to every fiber of their being, constantly influencing their thoughts.

anyway what happened to her? she wasn't part of the third or any following movies.

>>715978441
Oh, sorry. I got her pregnant and we retired to a cute little planet to raise the children. My fault.

I do not give a shit about how
>nooo order 66 made no sense before the chips!!!
Half the shit in this series makes no sense, but at least it was interesting. With the chips it's yet another goddamn brainwashing plotline. There's even a "I know the real you is still in there somewhere!" scene. There's no nuance, there's no drama, there's no meat on the bone. It's gay. It's boring. It's lame. It's just so lame. Fuck the chips.

>>715978319
This has been tried, half of your apprentices are plotting against the other half, and each of those halves are themselves subdivided into two halves planning to betray each other the instant they defeat their other rivals. And all of them plan to betray you the instant you make your move against us. Meanwhile mine has been plotting to kill me for years, but he doesn't know that the assassins he's hired are actually just me using burner emails.

>>715978441
They gave her a shitty live action show.

>>715978575
You Siths sure are a contentious people.

>>715977691
Hopefully in the end stuff worked out for you guys. I miss my dad and love him but the older I get thr more I realize he was smart at his job but maybe not so much in planning ahead and budgeting/pivoting realistically. Didn’t help that my mom always wanted to buy shit and he hid how bad the finances were. Oh well. I don’t like the idea of debt either and I’m pretty frugal but I ultimately think it’s from watching my family’s quality of life change drastically and wanting to plan for things. always have money saved up for an emergency. Money for multiple months of rent. Stuff like that since shit happens. ideally half a year. gives me power to not feel like at any moment I can get fucked.


I may eventually buy some of those old starwars sets probably used. they’ve got a real charm to them. They aren’t as complex as the newer flashier sets but I like em anyway.


I picked up a few of the mini sets that came with some troops and a small vehicle and those were actually some of the strongest sets IMO. I remember my younger brother getting me an episode 3 one for my birthday one year. Kino.

>>715977707
>>715977825
Actually every Sith breaks that rule all the time, Palpy, Dooku, Vader, all of them. Because treachery is the way of the Sith and you're expected to train backup apprentices just to keep fucking with each other and keep both the master and apprentice strong.

>>715978870
Exactly what a foolish simpleton like you would believe. But you see the entire grand plan has been building to ME and I will be the first truly intelligent Sith who fulfills the plan and doesn't succumb to hubris, because I'm me.

>>715978349
This honestly sounds like a gigareach no offense but I don’t think the majority of sentiments in starwars have any meaningful substantial connection to the force. I could be wrong though who knows.

>>715959372
The Clone Wars cartoon is fantastic.

The Clone Wars CGI shit is complete trash.

>>715978872
>I may eventually buy some of those old starwars sets probably used. they’ve got a real charm to them. They aren’t as complex as the newer flashier sets but I like em anyway.
I like the old sets better. I want to get the old 2000s era pre clone wars sets since those were the ones all the stuff in the Lego Star Wars PS2 games.

>>715979076
>I don’t think the majority of sentiments in starwars have any meaningful substantial connection to the force. I could be wrong though who knows.
Yoda says as much in Episode 5, and its repeated by Qui Gon in Episode 1. Everyone has the force, that's how the Jedi can read minds and mind trick people, and how to Sith can choke and shock people. Some people just have more force power than others.

>>715979185
It had a lot of good episodes, it just wasn't wall to wall kino like the 2003 series. Some of the 2008 series episodes were bad though.

>>715977582
We're not talking about droids, we're talking about clones. Yes, droids can become sapient if you don't wipe them.
>We cannot say the same about clones.
We can, because they are literally humans. The movie doesn't spend time elaborating that the humans are humans because it assumes you know humans are humans. Nothing in the movie implies otherwise and even the old EU material and novelizations show that the clones are just humans. The only behavioral modifications they had were to make them loyal and trustworthy, unlike their genetic donor, who was a piece of shit.
>they are repeatedly shown on screen engaging in brutal oppression and purges that highlight their coldness,
No they aren't. They are shown being effective soldiers. Nothing about their personality or attitude outside of that context is shown.

>>715979185
>>715979425
Gendywars is like 20 minutes of interstitial programming and a lot of it is just stupid.

>>715979616
You sound like a homosexual.

>>715979192
Yeah I’m right there with you the older sets looked more Lego somehow. People argue about this all the time ultimately it’s a matter of opinion but it not being a perfect 1:1 recreation of a starwars ship makes it look more like a Lego set and to a degree I think is a good thing. if I wanted a super accurate replica I would simply buy a model kit. Not a Lego set.

And yeah the older sets match the aesthetic of the older Lego starwars games pretty well. those were really fun. The late 90s- early 2000s were a great time to be a starwars fan. I reminisce a lot about those days where we had episode 2 and 3 with the clone wars happening, starwars battlefront 1/2, KOTOR, Republic commando, Lego starwars physical sets and Lego starwars video games. Lots of other cool starwars stuff I’m probably not even remembering. Just was an overload of quality shit. I honestly thought it would never end. Then I saw the first Star Wars sequel and my illusion was shattered. Such is life.

>ITT: clones lusting over clankers
every time

>>715979328
I don’t really buy into all that- a force user can lift a rock and the rock doesnt have any connection to the force it isnt a living being it’s just a rock. I don’t think that you can force choke someone only because they’re a living being who is also in connection to the force. But again I could be wrong I can’t say for sure.

Personally I never was a huge fan of the force stuff in starwars, I think it’s cool and it’s interesting but the more they elaborate on it and the more details they give the weirder it gets and I just try no to think about it too much. I remember that supposedly the prequels had some in-depth midichlorian thing I read and have since forgot but my impression was maybe they could have executed that premise better or not explained it

>>715960373
>>715960994
The problem is, if you go by Legends, the idea that the clones always had it in the back of their heads that they would one day need to betray the Jedi with no external influence is ludicrous. At that point it had been established since like the Bantam era of Star Wars books that Jedi could fairly easily probe people's thoughts and see whether or not they were being truthful or otherwise concealing information from them, and this was well after Order 66 and before Luke's jedi order so even relatively inexperienced Jedi could do this. You can see this happen a gorillion times over the Thrawn trilogy. The idea that an entire army made of millions of the same fucking guy who fought along side thousands of Jedi during their prime and not a single fucking one out of tens of thousands, especially Obi-Wan, ever thought "Hey, let's see what these clones are thinking, after all it's awfully suspicious one of our own had them all created and then he got Shanghai'd" is pure stupidity. It's fine to show the Jedi as arrogant but that's pure stupidity territory. I know there's outliers like Rahm Kota who used normal humans as his army but I doubt he was aware of Order 66 either.

>>715979842
I feel like what made me realize it was over was the lack of any good games after Force Unleashed. The sequels just shot down any "we're so back" sentiment I got from the prospect of more Star Wars.

>>715980054
>a force user can lift a rock and the rock doesnt have any connection to the force it isnt a living being
Yoda says the force flows through the rock and the ship.

>second paragraph
Even the people who like the force agree its better being left nebulous and unexplained. All you need to know is that its magic, its everywhere, and its what gives the Jedi their powers.

>>715967147
Yeah but that sounds expensive. How about mass produced droids with budget CPUs loaded with default personalities that can work independent of orbital soft targets?

>>715980073
The idea is that the Jedi aren't just arrogant. At this point the force is feeding them stupid pills for being arrogant assholes. The reasonable arrogance was them refusing to listen Qui Gon in episode 1.

>>715979616
It still has the best depictions of Grievous and Ventress. Also probably still the best action scenes in the entire franchise.

>>715980515
>them refusing to listen Qui Gon in episode 1.
But MUH PROPHESY (which turn out to be fake as the Emperor returns somehow).

>>715980159
I haven’t played it personally—- my general gaming approach at this point is to primarily play older games I never played so perhaps I will try that one. There are a lot of good older starwars games I’ve yet to try and while we may not get any good new ones for a while (EA finally lost the license I believe) we still have the ability to discover new (to us) older games that can be fun. Better than nothing.


yeah I was coping telling myself that because there was a hiatus between the OT and the (imo) just as fun prequel trilogy, that there will probably be another series later and they are just resting and finalizing everything before repeating their smash success they had with the prequels. It seemed plausible enough if they did it once they could do it again.


There were a lot of smart people here though saying it was bad Disney bough starwars. I should have listened to them but naively I argued that with disneys massive funds they can afford the best talent and there is no way they would get the best people possible involved to continue something they spent millions of dollars on. I honestly needed to think about it when I saw the first prequel because it was that bad. I couldn’t understand how they fucked it up so bad with every possible resource at their disposal. Anyway rambling apologies just was a potent lesson in things not always going as you logically would expect them too.

Why were the separatists bad anyways? Yeah, Dooku and Sheev instigated the entire conflict to their own ends, sure. But in general, the sentiment of the Separatists were that the Republic was bloated, corrupt and taking too much from the outer rim worlds, and they wanted autonomy and independence. What was so wrong with that?

The Republic literally was a corrupt unethical bureaucracy centered on a planet that does nothing but take resources from other worlds for their own benefit. Think about how much food needs to be shipped into coruscant every single hour just to keep the planet going, probably millions of ships needed to arrive with food every single day to feed the trillions of people and aliens on the planet.

Also, the Republic used literal child slave labor as an armed force. They created clones, took them from the moment they were born, rapidly aged them, turned them into killing machines, forced them to fight and die as slaves from which they were offered no freedom or reprieve. Just brutal deaths in a conflict they had no choice but to fight in. How was that ethical or fair? Any of the "evil" shit the Separatists did pales in comparison to what the Republic did to the clones.

The clones were never allowed to live a normal life. They were never allowed to love, to have sex, to marry, to have children, to make their own life. They were slave soldiers bred and born to die. At least the Separatists were using droids primarily to fight in their wars. Yes, droids have some level of sentience in Star Wars too, but much less than a human clone, and they are still machines at their core built for a singular purpose.

>>715980790
Shoot getting tired. Gonna sleep soon. I meant to say the first sequel was so bad it shocked me. I didn’t think a major company with so much money could drop the ball like that, genuinely I didn’t think it was possible. This later would repeat with 343 and the halo sequels as well completely demoralizing me.

>>715981108
Why was the diner that obiwan received intel in during episode 2 namespace sheev’s?

>>715979457
They are not literally humans.
They are modified. The exact line is
>"We modified their genetic structure to make them less independent than the original host. As a result they are totally obedient, taking any order without question."

You are not arguing about what is in the movie. We see them act the way I describe. You however, are claiming that they somehow have a rich, inner life that we simply are not privy to. That George Lucas somehow failed to show us, even though he shows B1 droids being fully fledged humans witb human reactions multiple ( a dozen +) times


Show a single snippet of a scene that humanizes a clone the same way that one interaction between grievous and his droid commander (the one that gives him the lightsabers). Just one little scene that is comparable.

>>715977779
Droids back in ep4 are clearly not depicted as pure machines. They are fearful. They can be tortured. They are prideful. They can lie.
Machines themselves can talk between each other. They are alive in strange ways. R2 speaks to the Death Star. He speaks to the millenium falcon. These things have personalities. Droids are characters with unmistakably human characteristics that go beyond "ai pretending to be human".

And B1 droids are no different, and are depicted this way throughout. Its characterization for anakin that he is sympathetic to droids in a galaxy that despises them. His best friend is an unabashed droid racist.

So the seperatists were outer colonies that had no representation yet were forced by the republic to pay taxes and I'm supposed to assume they're the bad guys for wanting to leave? Wasn't that the whole point of the creation of the USA?

>>715980790
>I never played so perhaps I will try that one
You should know that there's two different versions of the game, one for PS2/PSP/Wii and one for PS3/360. They are very different games. The Wii version has better gameplay, more levels, and a VS mode, but the 360 has a lot more spectacle and DLC mission pack. You can get the 360 version on Steam while the Wii version is available on Switch, both can also be emulated.

>>715981108
The problem with the separatists was their leadership. They were a bunch of psychopaths hand picked by Sidious because of how horrible they were. They did such wonderful things as testing napalm on unarmed civilians, turning primitive tribals into mancubuses, selling whole planets into slavery, murdering separatist senators who tried to engage in peace talks with the republic, resurrect and enhance an ancient super virus so it can be released in republic space to kill millions of civillians, torture, mass murder, and one moving violation.

>>715983042
All Republic lies

>>715982515
see >>715983042

>>715983042
Sounds like Israel.

>>715983138
How'd you solve the captcha, clanker?

>Create fake and gay droid army
>Create fake and gay clone army
>Have the two of them battle it out in a nothingburger war
>Jedi gladly devour it to protect the Republic and get killed for it
>Almost the entire Republic gives a standing ovation to the announcement that the Jedi are going to be hunted like dogs
Realistically is there anyone who could've won harder than him?

>>715983042
NTA but starwars is kind of realistic IMO in the sense that once you have different groups of sentient beings in space it might be better for them to be isolationist and not fuck with eachother or else they will just cause mass death events using fucked up future tech. It’s a situation where no side can really win. the separatists should have had their own region of space and the republic should have had theirs and there could have been pockets where groups intermingled for trade or had neutrality.

>>715983303
>There's a prophesy older than time stating your demise
>Somehow still returns
The Emperor won, hard.

>>715980623
I think ventress was better in TCW because she was an actual character with a character arc, the only other time you saw her with a character was in the republic comics

plus she just works better as someone independent rather than being dooku's lackey

>>715984069
I just preferred how threatening she was in Genndy Wars. She talks too much and fails too many times in Filoni Wars.

>>715978091
>>715982070

To be fair, R2 and C-3P0 are high-end utility and protocol droids respectively, so it's makes that they're sentient because they're intended to be long-lasting machines and provide their masters with some form of company. But battle droids are by virtue of their very name intended to be 100% disposable. Their sole purpose for existing is to destroy and be destroyed. So it doesn't really make sense why you would give them any real form of higher intelligence, especially emotional intelligence which might cause them to not pull the trigger on an infant or walk straight through a minefield like a Soviet penal battalion as their Trade Federation masters command.

The first two films actually did this right for the most part, but TCW and Revenge of the Sith to a lesser extent fucked it up.

>>715985307
different strokes
she was always gonna be a jobber due to the nature of being a kids cartoon villain, but she gets some wins later on
plus nothing wrong with her talking, I could listen to her sexy voice for days
its her story, she's one of the better written characters in TCW who has a bit of uniqueness to her (force sensitive outside the jedi and sith and tries to be neutral) and actively tries to be a better person and doesnt shy away from the terrible things she did

>>715986010
Their disposability doesn't matter.

As I said, B1s have fully human reactions in every single situation. They are like 70-80 iq humans.

As I said earlier, every droid has intelligence in starwars. Jabba is torturing very simple droids that cannot speak. Why? Because that is motivating to droids. It works.

The droids in ep 3 are "matured" through war and therefore exhibit more human traits as they grow and see friends die.

Just the B1 commander that stops them from going to coruscant shows they're not just automatons. That's not how an Alexa type ai talks.

>>715986285
They make the droids intelligent and understand emotion so they can work better with their human commanders. The droids emotions don't get in the way of their functioning. We see them do self destructive things all the time when ordered to, even if they really don't want to, because they're physically incapable of disobeying.

>>715986412
I think the best part of her character was the drama between her and Dooku. First her being the henchman that always loses and is utterly terrified of being disposed of, then as the burned former henchman out for revenge, who is utterly incapable of actually doing anything to Dooku because of the power gap between them.

>>715968207
>>715967748
Also as the janissaries became more prominent, they started enlisting Muslim adults because kidnapping couldn't sustain their numbers and their reputation meant more Turks wanted to join them. By the 1800s a majority of them were actually Muslim recruits.
Same thing happened to the Mamelukes earlier, they started as slave soldiers but as their reputation developed more Muslims started joining them until they ended comprising the majority.

>>715986963
she still tries to kill him multiple times though, which takes actual balls
she just hates him that much, but doesnt make it her entire character

>>715988663
I'm just saying the most interesting parts of her are when she's dealing with Dooku. Her going off bounty hunting and girl bossing on her own was just boring and felt a bit like a self insert power fantasy on the part of some female writer.

I want to see more sith infighting and politics. The feud between the night sisters and the main sith was kino.

>>715986758
Droids are absolutely capable of disobeying direct orders. The droids in ep3 do so after Grievous ends up venting the bridge. His explicit orders were "stay at your stations, keep the ship in orbit".
But after he loses they start being cut down by the jedis and run away out of fear.

If they were "physically incapable of disobeying direct orders" they would stay and die, yet they don't.

This is headcanon on your part. Droids have always been able to simply refuse. They mostly don't refuse because they can be legally killed or have their personality erased if they become troublesome. Their behavior is in every case informed by a fear of death.

>>715961027
Because they also have a bajillion battle droids and backing from evil space wizards.

>>715966251
>Moving to the third world
Even Tatooine is more appealing than Texas, at least I can legally look at anime there.

>>715961414
The bigwigs' only wanted independence so they would no longer get punished for labor rights violations.

>>715958630 (OP)
ahem
FUCK CLANKERS

>>715961027
They have the strength of the true proletarian of starwars, namely droids, backing them.

The only reason this venture was even reasonably plausible is due to grievous bridging the two camps (fleshy alien elites and robotic soldiers).

The only reason the separatists lost is due to the elites being utterly compromised and cowardly faggots btw

Droid power

>>715975928
What the hell are you talking about. That's the direct opposite especially with what we've seen of the CIS Senators.

stop liking the prequels just because they had a couple of decent games

>>715989748
if you insist

>>715958919
Not unless you download the mod that replaces Rey

>>715989761
Grevious was meatbag in droidface.

>>715989984
>>715975928
George Lucas depicted the Federation cause as fairly just (only corrupted by direct influence by Satan himself), and the Jedi being engaged in straight strong arming in episode 1.

They were an oppressive tool of the state when we first saw them. This is how it goes. Jedi come in and fuck your shit up if you step out of line.

This in and of itself is leading to secession being the only way forward for the productive periphery of the galaxy. They're being taxed to death, the galactic center siphoning off cash and goods simply through inertia

>>715990209
Yes. He's warrior aristocracy as well. But he's the glue that holds the CIS together. We see this in multiple ways. The republic thinks this too. Him being half droid is not a coincidence.

>>715975436
>It was one senator. What would be the plan to gain power after that?
Did you miss all the scenes in the prequel trilogy where the Senate kept passing bills that granted Palps more power? By that point he wasn't just one senator, he had concentrated A LOT of power into himself.

>>715990362
He killed more droids than the rest of the CIS command put together. And I'm not talking about combat losses.

>>715989993
I like the prequels because both factions have much more interesting units, heroes, vehicles and ships and I like the setting better. OT rebellion sucks in all departments 99% of the time and imperial navy pizza slices get repetitive even if they are infinitely better than rebelshit tech. >>>>>>>PT factions are lol lmao on all fronts

>>715990259
>They're being taxed to death, the galactic center siphoning off cash and goods simply through inertia
Secession at least makes some sense, but how does invading an entire planet and stealing all of its resources advance whatever their cause was in episode 1?

>>715989993
I enjoyed the prequels though. Its possible to enjoy a movie despite its flaws.

I also think that the clones having a chip on their brains to betray the jedi was too much.
You can think whatever you want if it's s good idea or not, but robbing of agency to characters never ends up being in something satisfactory for all the audience.

Grievous is my FUCKING hero!
https://youtu.be/uZ3-X6IgG3Q
https://canongeneralgrievous.fandom.com/wiki/General_Grievous_Wiki

>>715990526
The worst thing about the sequel trilogy is that reuses all of the tech from the OT. The Rebels had junky WW2 looking ships because that's all they had while the Empire controlled the galaxy. It doesn't make any sense for the Republic to still be using X-Wings instead of the more advanced ARC-170s from the old Republic..In fact they went backwards with those fucking awful bombers.

>>715991217
i had completely forgot it was a chip, which is kind of fucking stupid since things like mkultra codewords are somewhat plausible in the real world, why would extensively indoctrinated clones need a chip to obey a command in the first place?

Ive always hated the inhibitor chips

>>715991921
Filtered.

>>715958880
Because it was funny.

>>715967851
include the CCP over the southern nationalists in this also

>>715961414
There was nothing wrong about seceding until they literally attacked the Republic.

>>715992265
Is that what young people call bad writing these days?

>>715990634
Its not about stealing the planet per se. Its specifically about trade, and humiliating the chancellor over the punitive taxes. Feds are strong for a reason, theirs is a productive trade with vast influence and wealth as a result.
They want power relative ti their strength. They all do. A conflict is inevitable. The republic itself chooses war as an answer.

The Jedi being sent way back in ep 1 (illegally), also sparks war. Ep 1 is a mini blueprint how future conflict eventually plays out. The republic will not share power, it will not allow these fringe industrialists to decide policy: it will punish their success.

>>715990465
Maybe you're reading ancillary stuff that has nothing to do with George.
The movies depict him as a noble front line commander.

>>715961556
The Jedi literally make the galaxy a better place and stop Sith and Mandalorian chimp outs, though.

>>715992730
They were literally invaded by the Jedi and their secret clone army on Geonosis.

>>715959372
Genndys clone wars is great thoughbeit

>>715993889
True, but he is talking about the shit CGI one.

>>715973992
>count dooku who was once a jedi not many people leave your order hmm, maybe you were with Dooku this whole time

>>715973992
I think there would be many in the military apparatus like Tarkin who would support the jedi being this ballsy and authoritarian especially if Palpatine being outed as masterminding the separatists was proven.

>>715991921
Considering how buddy buddy the clones were with the Jedi because of the TCW TV series, it's the only way to justify how the clones instantly turned on them.
Since the 'they're so well trained, they'll even kill their commanders' is such a massive plot hole.

>>715995562
I miss when the clones were just clones of a mercenary. I don't like how Clone Wars gave them personality.

>>715976787
Definitely like 2005 battlefront better. The clones are invested in maintaining Palpatine's empire. Stormtroopers are star wars sardukaur equivalent anyway.

>>715980073
The idea is that clones have been altered so a jedi wouldn't be able to see what they are really thinking or Jango and the other mandos taught them their way.

>>715973709
A Star Wars alt Universe where Anakin leads the Jedi loyal to the Republic vs. Obi-Wan's independent Jedi Order.

>>715959372
They're just coomers who want to fuck Ashoka. Nobody with a brain actually likes that shit.

>>715970001
It's because Cody says yes my lord. Why would he call the leader of the republic my lord.

>>715960167
Why wouldn’t Order 66 make sense?
The clones are a slave army, raised from infancy being fed a specific world view. You really under estimate how effective indoctrination is.
Even once they leave Kamino and have more exposure to the universe, what they see is their brothers dying at the behest of the Jedi. Recall that to public knowledge, the Jedi ordered the clone army and commands it. Making them the villains to any clone who starts to question the nature of his existence.
Also, how often do you think any one clone interacts with their Jedi general that most would really hesitate to gun them down if that’s what their orders are?
There’s a mix of obedience and indoctrination as well as valid emotional reason for clones executing the Jedi.
And it being without a brain chip makes for interesting stories about the few who did choose to disobey the order and defect.

>>715997531
>dogshit take
>pic is traviss slop
Pottery.

>>715986528
>They are like 70-80 iq humans.
>putting someone with Jeet-tier intelligence in charge of flying your ship

No wonder they lost lmao

>>715993724
>Conveniently forgets about the embarrassment on Naboo
Fucking Clankers I swear

>>715997972
The droid army was never beaten on the field of battle.

>>715976787
>Clones, meanwhile, going by the movies, simply do not show us they are capable of deeper thought.
Nigger, we saw Cody and Obi-Wan bantering every scene they were in together right up until Order 66

>>715997058

Honorific title dummy, President of the United States is legally entitled to be referred to as "His Excellency", pray no one tells Trump or we'll never hear the end of it.

>>715998130
>The droid army was never beaten on the field of battle.

>Naboo
>Geonosis
>Utapau
>will forgo the others in Revenge of the Sith since combat was ongoing when the droid shutdown order was issued

>>715995229
By the end of the war Tarkin hated the Jedi because he not only saw them as being too weak to do what was necessary to end the war but perceived them as above the law. Given his relationship with Sheevs, he would have had the GAR revolt against the Jedi rather than let them take control of the senate if Windu successfully assassinated Sheev.

>>715999085
None of those were real victories, only due to leadership being threatened were they ever decided.

Taken as a whole, the droid army fought to the last, where it was betrayed by its leadership. Again, the clones never beat the droids decisively. The war was still undecided.

>>715997531
Star Wars doesn't handle grey morality that well outside of the EU. The brain chips were made just so Filoni's OC Donut Steel clones wouldn't be seen as evil, even if it tarnishes clones overall.

Omega Squad was an interesting story but they were commandos along with defective ARC troopers. They were bred differently than your average clone troopers and had a bit more freedom. Delta Squad were willingly to disobey a direct order just to save Sev and weren't too fond of Jedi but obeyed. I recall there being some resentment among commandos against the Jedi because they were inexperienced and used special forces as infantry, which is what caused a lot of commandos to die on Genosis.

>>715959372
Fuck you, Dooku was tight.

>>716002928
The Republic was more effective as an army, the problem was that that the CIS mysteriously knew all of their battle plans and were able to force a stalemate in all of their major battles, thanks to Sidious leading both armies.

>>716003612
Tight?

>>716005534
>The Republic was more effective as an army
Only when they had Jedi