Thread 716353786

TURN ON STEAM

IT'S UP

>>716353786 (OP)
bro, tonight will never be the night ever again

>They actually released an update
How many people at valve are even working on tf2?
two? maybe three?

What a surprise, it's the exact same bullshit community map/crate update that they've been dragging out since 2017.

holy shit op wasnt lying ITS HERE

>>716353786 (OP)
not much of a update

>>716354859
10 new maps? fuck man how many maps are in the game nowadays?

>Reduced default value for ConVar 'tf_mm_next_map_vote_time' from 30s to 15s
QUICKPLAY BROS WE'RE GOING HOOOOOOOME

There is a shark

>>716353786 (OP)
Any cosmetics with hidden trans flags?

the new taunts are awesome

>>716355476
t. someone who never played quickplay

>>716354859
ENOUGH WITH THE MAPS

...

>>716353786 (OP)
Show me the hats, i want to see the hats.

>>716356216
Gimme a fucking minute goddam

20 year old servers

>>716355896
Ok so TF2 is now P2W now?
Yeah Taunt Kills aren’t the most useful attack, but that’s still an option to have. Like if you’re being chased by a high health class, you can go behind a corner and instant kill them with good enough timing.
Those were regulated to certain weapons, but now if you don’t buy a taunt, you are actively disadvantaged and there is no “sidegrade” excuse.

>>716356216
disco elysium is now in tf2

>>716354859
you will play more dogshit community maps and you will be happy. now buy the crates you waste of life

I've had to reinstall TF2 recently, and ever since I've been running into an issue where my FPS just tank really hard when a lot of objects/ragdoll spawns and I have no fucking idea why, and even shit like mastercomfig aren't helping.
It was never an issue before, and I always ran the game vanilla, everything maxxed out so I have no fucking idea what could be causing it.

>>716355476
They really don't wanna let go of casual

>>716354859
fulgur is fun

>>716354859
ENOUGH WITH THE MAPS

I still play and love this game but the fanbase is delusional to think valve will ever do an actually meaningful update ever. The MvM one will be a wet fart no one cares about and then theyll probably actually ditch the game for good

>>716356625
>>716356409
>dogshit elysium is now in tf2

not reinstalling

>>716356784
Same here, but i get a slight improvement when i set CPU priority to high to tf2.exe with task manager hope it helps

>>716353786 (OP)
Wasn't there supposed to be an update of MvM maps or something?

>>716357101
thats for october

>>716356784
Seems very map dependent, most the newer ones just run like actual dogshit no matter your hardware

im going to open 10 cases and then not touch the game again for another couple months as i have done the "content"

>>716357092
I suspect it's tied to Steam Redist, it got updated in-between the reinstall.
>>716357198
Nah, in this case it happens on any map, just having a lot of players/gibs on the screen is enough to tank FPS hard.

What do I think of the new cosmetics, /v/ros?

>>716356784
>>716357092
Make sure you're in real fullscreen and not borderless window, maybe.

>>716358107
they arent bad but they arent really great either

MOVE.
ON.

>>716358107
Pretty mid, short fuse ones kinda witty though surprised something like that doesn't exist already in the game

>>716358107
>More Troonporium items

>>716358107
0, 0, 0, -10, -10, 1, worst cosmetic in the game currently, 0, -10, -10, - 10, -10 (another fucking beanie), 5, 6, 9, 3, 2, 2, 6, 3, 0, 9, 9
>taunts
who cares

>HL2 update
>TF2 update
WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?

>>716358107
>>716358402
>they didnt learn from the last video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeCFIrzZ7HA

>>716358107
Mediocre. Medieval engie is the only one I think I would ever wear.

>>716358107
Half of these are like existing cosmetics but worse, and other half is just shit

oh my hecking fauci is that some fricking disco elysium in my tf2????

>>716359137
oh is THAT the pop culture reference? no wonder the shit looks so fucking bad.

>>716354859
Trust the plan. Any day now they'll update robot destruction and mannpower and medieval and pass time and territory control and ... into real game modes with multiple maps

>>716353786 (OP)
Who needs porn when you have THIS?

>shitty goymmunity maps
release a balance patch you fucking cowards

>>716358107
cosmetics are all abysmal, really. taunts are okay expect the final score, that one is just like the hats, SHIT!

>>716360061
Medieval mode realistically needs a total overhaul to make half the classes not completely useless, but at that point why even go to the effort for a mode barely anyone plays?

>>716358107
I feel like there are already multiple versions of that demoman bomb hat in the game

>>716355073
Counting the Halloween and Christmas exclusive ones? I think around 120

>>716360370
just fix melee hitreg and it'd be fine

>>716354859
>check price of the new crate
>£0.05 already
Why is it so low? CSGO crates drop every week AND are worth up to £2 frequently.

>>716358107
Just pull the plug already, this is all terrible
wow, another low poly baseball cap, who gives a shit. look, another beanie! look, another 1940s le gangster set for scout, look another vietnam war soldier hat!!
this update made me NOT want to reinstall

>>716358107
Everything is shit except the Spy stuff, Soldier head, and Med hat.
>Bro, what if we gave Sniper a coat that mutes all of his colors and lets you paint over the small patches of non-muted red/blue.
Lmao

>>716358107
Pyro always gets the most garish and obnoxious shit. They need to stop with the full body replacements.

>>716360730
CS2 has like 10x the player count (it says 1 million but let's be real here), the cases all share previous skin collections and those skins are worth a lot more

I've fucked around on the new maps, most of them play awfully. The payload one with the underwater base is the worst example, holy shit it's cancer.

>>716358494
HALF LIFE 3 SOON

>>716360730
I made over $1000 selling CSGO crates I had just sitting in my inventory. I've played TF2 5x as much and only made $6 off of more than 600 crates. Absolutely ridiculous how much people will pay for shit in CSGO.

>>716354859
>still no strange tide turner
bros
its been like 12 years
im starting to lose hope

>>716360730
if you think tf2 fags are retarded about their ebin hats, you don't know how fucking stupid csgo can get, for the love of god, there are literal, artificial, and delibirate flaws on cosmetics to downgrade the value, some as small as a literal 3 pixel black dot.

I've played 4 matches so far on 4 different maps and they are all terrible, either poorly designed or flat out gimmicky bullshit.

>a fucking meme Sharknando reference
>in 2025
Nigga even Asylum themselves stopped making these movies in 2018

>>716361672
>stranges for a weapon that is 99% unintentional kills

>>716356409
Heavy's sunset tequila arc goes hard

>>716361983
YES

>>716355896
Is this true?

>>716355896
No it doesn't. It's heavy's showdown taunt range

where are the payload maps? i'm getting nothing but koth

>>716358107
ww1 spy is neat, although i wish the hat was just the adrian

>>716361708
Gotta respect the balls on the guy who made Aquarius. Forced underwater sections mean that you’re never gonna see a match without the neon annihilator.

>>716356784
TF2 was getting heavier and heavier after 10 gorillion updates.
The solution is to avoid playing full server, or at least not those 32 players server.

>>716356216
Buy them yourself and update the wiki. You'll get a wiki hat

>>716362085
Yes.

>>716362085
No It's same range as heavy's fingergun.

>>716353786 (OP)
they will never make a balance change ever again

>>716360370
TF2C's medieval mode is honestly the most fun variant despite the weapon dearth because you can melee through teammates and engie can still build jumppads

>>716362085
>>716355896
Post proof ninjas

>>716358107
Dogshit, skipping all of them. Taunts are good but disappointed that the Final Score isn't RNG (at least the store just shows 0, maybe there's more in-game?)

>>716362853
TF2's balance is fine

That mine effect is hot garbage and you can't even see the class anymore.
https://youtu.be/4tfREhz6Lyw?t=1m17s

>>716363075
If you ignore vaccinator, wrangler, the diamondback and, arguably, sniper as a whole

>>716358107
>MORE jackets
>MORE ties

>>716356784
I guess maybe check if your cpu is dying.
especially if your framerate starts plummeting in spawn during a spawnwave

>>716354859
I'm tired of community maps.
It's always too open.
It always has massive sniper sightlines.
Chokepoints are part of of TF2.

>>716358107
I like jarhead and the spy ties. team cap is passable but only as another option in the handful of other places where I already consider using one of the 50,000 other ballcaps. rest range from "don't vibe with" to absolute shit.

>>716358107
the TFC logos on the hat is neat, but it's a meh cosmetic overall

>>716363147
TF2 should've been abandoned in 2009. I'm so fucking sick of this.

>more people playing hightower than the new maps
grim

>>716354183
Does the potted plant count as 1 here?

>>716354859
>fulgur
oh shit. finally.
thought that was a guarentteed lock in for jungle inferno.

>>716358107
They're shit. As usual

>>716363589
The only time I've gotten anything hightower is when I find a community server for it. KoTH and Payload clog my queue.

>>716358107
Imagine the restraint it took for Eric to put only one beanie in there.

>>716362984
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za9767cyVuo

>>716363148
skill issues

>>716363985
Finally new taunt kills, 10/10 update just for that

Why did they add Disco Elysium into the game, when you can already make engineer look like Harry

They should've put in the PISSFAGGOT jacket

>>716363985
>Not unlimited
Gay

>>716364340
Indeed
Made on the day this shirt cosmetic released

>>716358107
Demo continues to get shit-tier cosmetics.

>pay five dollars for two keys
>get one crate drop
>one weapon drop
>nothing else for three hours
FUCK GABE

>>716358107
That tie is fucking huge

>>716358107
The tauntkill is cool. Disco Elysium Heavy is just funny, but another option for facial hear is nice. Medieval Engineer is funny considering how useless he is in that mode. Team Cap is redundantly fine. Everything else is just filler for traders to jerk off over.

Finally, The Hydro

>>716358107
>demo gets LOL LMAO ITS A BEANIE BOMB XDDD hat yet again

>>716360541
?
didn't this shit used to have like five or six maps
who needs that many maps

>>716365014
is this that 10th class people have been talking about?

>>716353786 (OP)
Thanks for the reminder anon. I'll uninstall it later.

>>716353786 (OP)
They added disco

>>716365336
Hardcore!

Myup, *sips* Quake was a good game.

>>716365180
Yes. We must return to 2007.

>>716365879
But then I won't be able to slam down a level three sentry in the enemy hallway on 2fort :(

All I wanted was heavy update that they promised

>>716363148
>waaah waaah sniper is overpowered
Why's he off-class in competitive and rare there?
>waah waah he's OP in casual
Like a conch box soldier? Or a natascha heavy? Maybe a soda popper scout? Eyelander demoknight? They're not overpowered if it's relying on the inexperience of players to stomp.
>nooooo there's no counterplay to sniper he just instakills me!!!
If you walk in a straight line or aren't paying attention, sure. You can move your head hitbox, you can listen for shots and time it, you can coordinate with your team, you can spam his location or suspected locations.
>WAAAAH THAT MAKES IT HARD TO AIM
>WAAAH HE'S TOO QUIET CUS HE'S FAR AWAY
>WAAAAH IT'S TOO HARD TO COORDINATE IN PUBS
>WAAAAAH I SHOULD BE ABLE TO JUST WALK UP AND KILL HIM
>IT'S NOT FAAAAAAIR I SHOULD JUST BE ABLE TO GET INTO HIS RANGE AND KILL HIM AND HE SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT!!!!
You just need to get better at the game then.

Sniper is NOT overpowered. YOU are underpowered. Stop blaming it on a 17 year old hat trading simulator.

>>716353786 (OP)
>>716354859
>another mother fucking set of dogshit community maps
>another mother fucking set of taunts that range from "okay i guess" to outright fucking gay as hell
>another mother fucking set of cosmetics I will never even remotely give a fuck about wearing because modern unu effects are DOGSHIT and I already have my dream loadouts
Quitting years ago was a great decision and pays off more and more each day

>>716365142
this was the dumbest shit shounic ever pulled

>>716354859
>bear hug
gayest thing ever added to tf2
I expect trannies to be spamming this taunt with their heavy bf 24/7

>>716366745
he's chinese, what do you expect?

>>716356784
Yep, FPS drop for me as well
No idea why

>>716366745
That would be his 2fort.

Cargo confirmed kino

>>716354859
>all these koth maps
>bagel still not added
what the fuck is valve's problem.
also pressure looks sick. shame it's a ctf map.

>>716357495
TF2 chokes on my Ryzen 5 7500F. It's just THAT intensive.
It becomes a lot more bearable with mastercoms at the very least but imagine everyone that has worse hardware.

>>716367239
TF2 is easily the most demanding game on my PC. It brings my 9800X3D and 4090 to its knees. Cannot even get 240fps on my 1440p monitor.

>>716363985
>Texan Trickshot in Medieval Mode:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YyBtMxZgQs

The shittiness of the maps in this update is actually making me appreciate last summers map pool a little more. I've played 8 of the new maps and I have yet to find a good one, outside of the one that is a reskin.

Conquest fucking sucks to play, holy shit
>Payload but the payload is big enough for the team to sit on AND it has a sentry
WHO THOUGHT OF THIS SHIT?!

>>716367913
Everything gets worse, wait until you see the new Halloween maps!

>Updated the Heavy's model to add a 'bullets' bodygroup for cosmetics
HELL YEAH
I can wear the Borscht Belt and other shit too

>Fixed some outdated in-game tips
Which were what?

>>716368123
Hoping they do the same for Sniper's and Medic's glasses, next.

>>716366725
Its insane how bad modern unusual effects are compared to classic ones. No halloween effect has surpassed Arcana/Spellbound. No normal effect has surpassed burning flames/sunbeams. Its atrocious

>>716358494
>no day of defeat: source update
dod:s bros... we lost.

>>716358107
Wow, look at all these things I never plan on ever buying.

The new maps are either too big or too fucking small.

>>716366725
>>716358107
>>716355718
>>716354859

>>716360334
kys

>>716368819
???

>>716353786 (OP)

I should have taken advantage of that massive bug that happened a few years ago where you could get unusuals guaranteed from crates...

>>716353786 (OP)
no quickplay
doesnt matter

>>716368983
https://youtu.be/EeCFIrzZ7HA
A puppet is correct

>>716361964
Oh they're sharks? I thought they were cows. Would've been a nice wizard of oz reference

>>716354859
real talk. what would take for them to add new weapons and rebalances. i really miss the caber and i feel like some new weapons would do wonders, even if they end up being shit

>>716361964
Gay. Now a Shark Exorcist reference, THAT'D be based.

>>716369757
>Scout starts writing on the ground.

>>716369846
somebody workshop this new taunt asap

>>716369629
A return to valve being a game development company instead of a hardware and software development company

>>716363148
>the diamondback
unless you're a histrionic retard that holds robin saying like 12 years ago that the unlocks are just sidegrades as gospel I really don't see what the big deal is in spy, the objective worst class in the game that the other 8 counter by wiggling and turning around sometimes and isn't even good at his own job of taking out sniper/engi/heavy gets to sometimes actually do damage for doing his job
>b-but if he pubstomps it snowballs
and yet you didn't say anything about the kunai, curious!

>>716353786 (OP)
>STILL NO STRANGE DRAGON'S FURY
what the FUCK is valve doing

>>716370045
I couldn't have said it better myself.

>>716369629
It bothers me to no end we have a new kill taunt but no weapon that it is attached to when it is literally Engineer using a revolver.

>>716363148
>vaccinator
Kinda suck on high pop server
>Wrangler
It's balanced, get over it.
>Diamondback
I give you that but Spy sucks as a class other than destroying teleporters.

so is vs hale fun now?

>like nearly 10 years since they've released any stranges
>despite the fact that all they are is a quality change
>this is despite adding a gorillion new cosmetics and unusual effects every update
what the FUCK? GIVE ME MY FUCKING DRAGON'S FURY VALVE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>716362598
>now
the mad milk and jarate bread reskins throw further. the jarate bread attaches to the head of whoever you throw it on too so you can follow a cloaked spy much easier

I like the new maps

>>716356537
the spy box taunt tricks people better than disguises. you can block capture points and otherwise do things players aren't looking for

>>716367532
I have a 7800x3d and 7900XTX and I get 750+ fps at 1440p

>>716358107
>team cap
it's the ellis hat but with a different logo
>medieval engie
it's ok
>monk heavy
eh
>disco elysium heavy
the hair and moustache are alright but the clothes look like shit
>scuba pyro
it's ok
>demo beanie
there's like 400 beanies already
>sniper moustache
this is basically just a combo of two hats that already exist
>sniper coat
it's okay
>scout blues stuff
i swear to god all of this already exists, there's like a billion fedoras already
>jarhead
wow it's another haircut and sunglasses
>ww1 spy
neat
>medic hat
it's yet another fedora and trenchcoat that every class already has 3 versions of
>taunts
who cares
the engineer one is especially insulting. make a weapon you lazy fucks, you have an engineer revolver modelled. put it in the game. engineer has literally 3 secondaries.

Actually having fun in Citadel

>>716370341
I need a strange the original

>>716370972
on an empty server with just (You) in it doesn't count.
try it on a 32 players server.

>>716355073
ADD WARPAINT CASE YOU LAZY FUCK, WHY WON'T YOU ADD THEM WHEN SUMMER 2023 DID SO WELL?!

>>716371068
I do all of the time.

>>716354183
>two? maybe three?
what company are we talking about anon

>>716355073
To me, TF2 still only contain like 10 maps at most. I only play gold rush and badwater

>>716371158
>unironically wanting more CS:GO cancer
Maybe Valve should just kill TF2 to funnel the player base to CS2

>>716367234
CTF is the best game mode tho because you just kill people.

What the fuck is this? Why do these crappy 10 cent cosmetics jump to 30? Is it because the crate was retired?

>>716371019
oh those maps are from party van. ok

>>716371068
Sounds like you need some more fake frames

I like the new bullet and static unusual effects

>>716371403
>wtf why did thing happen, is it because of [OBVIOUSLY CORRECT REASON]?

>>716371596
I'm not a TF2 economist expert who's obtained his PHD on dustbowl. Fucking stupid though, at least I know now to buy the ones I like early.

>>716358107
we haven't gotten a good, in original art style cosmetic in the last 8 years barring 1 (one) in 2024

>>716366524
finally another player with a brain

3 months until Scream Fortress :)

>>716371823
You're retarded. Sniper isn't op, but he's either nothing at all, or the most annoying class to deal with

>>716366745
unironically what is wrong with it? one of the most interesting gameplay experiments yet, tongue-in-cheek fuck you to robin walker, funny to watch, surprising depth for what was supposed to be a total meme

>>716371823
people also complain about dr, vacc, scorch shit etc thoughbeit

castaway

>>716360541
How many maps do people actually play?

>>716372418
3
2fort, hightower, dustbowl

>on the internet: SNIPER IS TOO STRONG THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO TO HIM HE HAS TO BE REMOVED REEEEE
>the actual game: https://youtu.be/HY9CVlp7N2s?t=239

>>716372070
>t. Tim Buckley

>>716371234
>he doesnt exclusively play orange 3x 100% crit, mario_kart and its variants and 2fort for 20 years straight
ngmi

>>716361487
No, 2+2=4. HALF-LIFE 4 COMFIRMED!!!!

>>716372524
>CTF fuck around server where nobody is really trying is the same as playing on a sweaty upward/badwater game

Whoever made aquarius should be forced to play on it.

>>716372881
>upward
literally the most sniper favored map this side of orange_X, its like if dustbowl 3 was twice as wide/open. if you get mad about snipers and play this shit you've got only yourself to blame

>>716373079
>literally the most sniper favored map this side of orange_X
Pretty much every payload map has obnoxiously long sight lines for some reason. Upward is extremely fun to play for the other 8 classes so people put up with it.

>>716372881
>play sweaty tryhard server
>get sweaty tryhards
i don't think sniper is the problem there

>>716371051
Anon....good thing i got one back when they were still under 100$

>>716373231
I think this is more the problem than anything else: Every new map is too wide, too open. I have no clue why.

Remember this is part 1

We have another update in August or September for MvM and who knows what else

>>716373347
I'm having a good time dueling good soldiers and scouts up until I die out of nowhere to some sniper main nigger sitting a thousand miles away.

>>716373474
>i should be able to carelessly waltz around an open field without danger

>>716373625
>middle of fighting a soldier/scout
>without danger

>>716358107
>WWI Spy
>Diver Pyro
>Monk Heavy
>Team hats
That's cool. I like it.
>Four (4) suit jackets and two (2) fedoras
>those ties
Retarded
>Everything else
It's alright.
7/10

>>716358107
Other than the Disco Elysium stuff its all genuine quality dogshit

>>716370513
The box taunt is slow, tricks only the newest of players, you can’t attack with it, and the invis/c&d can just do what you want with the box taunt but way better.

>>716358107
>Cosmetics:
>Team Cap
Kinda lame choice for elite grade.
>Medieval Engie
Because people TOTALLY play Engie in Medieval mode all the time.
>Monk Heavy
Not digging the hair, but the robe is cool.
>Disco Elysium Heavy
Common consensus is hair = good and clothes = bad, and I have to agree. That fucking tie looks like the one from the Flanderization diagram.
>Diver Pyro
Don't really mind.
>Yet another beanie
Gay.
>Geezer Sniper
Not digging the darker colors and how "plastic-y" the coat flaps are.
>Frank Sinatra Scout
Awesome, good thing the guitar is the only thing assassin grade.
>Jarhead
I can finally make Soldier into Tank Dempsey, that's a win for me.
>Trench Spy
Not really a vibe I was expecting, but cool.
>Spy Ties
Don't mind, nice little setpiece.
>P.I. Medic
Dapper, third tobacco cosmetic this case.

>Flying Colors
Cool to use on a point or payload for about 5 seconds until you get sniped.
>Texan Trickshot
pic related
>Bear Hug
It's only gay if you see it that way.
>The Final Score
The Schadenfreude already exists.

>>716366524
>Why's he off-class in competitive and rare there?
Because compfags don't like Sniper
>Like a conch box soldier? Or a natascha heavy? Maybe a soda popper scout? Eyelander demoknight? They're not overpowered if it's relying on the inexperience of players to stomp.
No, every single one of the listed weapons has glaring flaws and are easy to counter even by inexperienced players
>If you walk in a straight line or aren't paying attention, sure. You can move your head hitbox, you can listen for shots and time it, you can coordinate with your team, you can spam his location or suspected locations.
You're just proving the point why Sniper is broken, there is no counterplay, your only move is to play around him while he doesn't interact with the battlefield at all
Over the 13 years I've been playing this game, I never saw a sniperfag that wasn't a massive faggot who played TF2 because he couldn't cut it on Counter Strike, or a fujoshi

>>716372418
Five in total, 2fort, Harvest, Upward, Badwater and Turbine

>>716373667
i mean you're complaining that an enemy with a teammate can kill you, you expect to take 1v2 fights and win easy? stop running out in the open when you know there's a sniper watching the area, he's in his element and you're not. these arguments about sniper are like hearing a scout complaining about running into a sentry over and over again and saying engineer is broken and too OP when 2 stickies deletes a whole nest. are anti-snipers just braindead gibus heavies walking straight at him while spun up?

>>716374403
good news anon there's been a bunch of ways to counter sniper for like a decade
>>716371823

>>716354859
I gave its final chance last year. Absolutely done.

>>716372418
95% of the community servers only cycle the same classic 3-4 pushkart maps still

>>716374903
Honesty I'm about ready to jump ship too. I'll probably grab a classic unusual hat and check it out again in another ten years

Deadlock has finally been registered and there's a new tf2 update? Valve must be all hands on deck.

>>716358107
Complete ass

>>716373359
I unboxed one once.

>>716374657
>i mean you're complaining that an enemy with a teammate can kill you
except that teammate can be a mile away and only 1/9 classes can actually deal with him effectively

>>716374835
>Scorch Sh-
Quickscope
>Fly across the ma-
Quickscope
>Half invincibilit-
Charged headshot
>dirt cheap ne-
Quickscope
>Guarantee-
Razorback and then quickscope

>>716360730
>CS has more players
>CS2 rare items rates are lower
>TF2 drops 2 crates per week
>TF2 unusuals are bloated in the trading scene
TF2 crates should be limited to 1 per week honestly, it would help much of the economy of the game.

>>716375828
What really ruined the game economy for me was when they changed it to allow non-strange weapons to be uncrated. That never made sense.

>>716360730
Nobody cares about tf2. Crates are incredibly common drops. New unusual effects and cosmetics are usually shit. There are more reasons but those are the big 3

>>716358107
holy fucking slop man, this plus the new unusual effects are fucking dogshit.
>another demo bomb beanie
IT'S SO FUCKING TIRESOME.
What the fuck is this update supposed to be? Medieval + Naval theme? What happened to Offshore? How much did they bribed to add all the medieval crap + the citadel map? Seems like Emporium back again.

>>716375762
you are retarded if you cant help but walk in a straight line. Get your fucking pinko commie propaganda ass the fuck out of here wanting a class nerfed after almost 20 years, if you cant figure it out then uninstall the game and play overwatch retard.

>>716373359
i remember when these were like 4 keys.
i remember when a lot of shit was much cheaper.
fuck csgo animals for normalizing absurdly expensive pixels and fuck valve for riding the key/market boat instead of doing anything of worth.
>teehee heres our games sdk you do it
id call them a ship of theseus (like every studio) but even the old guard are fine with this shit.

>>716370329
it always was

>>716376359
Hell, I'm making my own sdk fork right now and Valve couldn't even bother to make the loadout switch instantly.
It sucks.

>>716375762
spoken like a new player who got full charge machina bodyshot down a corridor by a gibus and taunted on.

>>716376213
The update theme is: Humiliation Ritual as usual. The elite grade hat being absolute ass over and over just proves it. There are like 3 or 4 elite grades that are actually decent. This has to be one of the worst updates as of yet, what is up with all the ties? every class already has 2 or more formal wear why keep adding? so weird.

>>716376470
doing anything interesting

>>716375535
>scout
speed and bonk
>soldier
blast jumps and direct hit
>pyro
scorch shot
>demo
blast jumps and shield charges (with crits and damage resistance)
>heavy
fists of steel
>medic
piss easy vaccinator uber
>sniper
quickscoping
>spy
is spy
holy shit sniper is so easy to counter, the only class that actually can't is engineer. i swear if valve added a free all class item that instant-kills all snipers in the server automatically you crybabies would still be saying "hurr durr we can't deal with him"
>>716375762
1: didn't happen
2: all those examples except spy can survive a quickscope

>>716354859
>community slop
>vote 2fort anyway

>>716376279
>flying across the map gets you snipes
>"bro stop walking in a straight line lol"

>>716363148
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhGNKS751jk&pp=ygURZ2FiYmVyIHRmMiBzbmlwZXI%3D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-80pUxsqUY&pp=ygURZ2FiYmVyIHRmMiBzbmlwZXI%3D

vocal anti-sniper people have the exact same problem as the vocal anti-airblast people from yesterdecade. they dont want to have to learn or pay attention to the map theyre on.
>playing comfort class fragging baddies on baddiewater
>walk into obvious sightline/enclosed space without confirming that its safe because youre vibegaming
>get punished by the long range/close range class who shuts you down without any chance to retalliate
>repeat until domination
>whine online about how that shouldnt happen and gaslight others into thinking that its always been a problem
pyro in particular has always been the class with no champions. its completely fine to have multiple items for nearly every class that invalidate him, with his own update fucking over one of his main mechanics and permanently breaking his flamethrower's damage ramp up, and nobody cares because of how the class is perceived (easy and should be bad). meanwhile demo got his sticky nerf reverted in what, two days? could you imagine if soldier got his blast radius reduced, it wouldnt even last an hour.

>>716358107
>2 sets of cosmetics for heavy
>another stupid bomb beanie for demo
I really hope whoever is in charge of updates dies a horrible dead.

>>716377153
Figure it out, I don't have an issue with snipers, even when theyre high on the scoreboard. Yeah I die to them sometimes but do you need to kill everyone? How about do the objective and get out of the retarded snipers line of sight? Figure it out nigger get out of here you pinko fuck.

>>716376651
Engineer
> the wrangle
> potshots with pistol for aimpunch

>>716374271
The spy cloak is slow, tricks only the newest of players, you can’t attack with it, and the taunt box can just do what you want with the spy cloak but way better. You can even cap with it.

>>716377153
you jumped straight at him and expected him to not shoot at the target who was only slightly harder to hit
>i was strafing
he aimed better than you strafed and deserved to kill you
>hes uncounterable
no, hes just better than you
>hes cheating and its impossible to counter him
then join another game. youre not playing overwatch, youre not going to lose anything by checking the fuck out
>i shouldnt have to do that
then play the game out and figure out how to counter him. if nobody else is complaining then its just a you problem. if somebody else is complaining then pair up and go vac. pathetically easy.

>>716377410
>How about do the objective and get out of the retarded snipers line of sight?
I believe the Snipers will probably be looking at the objective. Like I do believe there is a degree of gitting gud against snipers but the deck is stacked against you for sure.

>>716377778
snipers cant look at the objective 100% of the game without getting raped, not an issue there. If you cant counter them then just go a different way, if theres too many snipers then how are you losing to a team with 3+ snipers?

>>716377410
What class do you play? Soldier and demo mains aren't allowed to complain about any classes unless it's about 6s

>>716377709
To beat a sniper, you either have to hope he misses his shots, or you're locked off from that entire path. Salty players will say he's OP, which is wrong, but you know full well that sniper is gay as fuck.

>>716377889
>who do you play goy, you should be upset about snipers like me
>soldier and demo mains dont count because i said so
>scout is too fast to hit so he doesnt count either
>engineers spies and pyros never enter his sightline so they dont count
see, youre a heavy/medic/bad sniper main, so you agree that sniper has no counter. i win!
if you need to invalidate classes from your bullshit argument, have you considered that those classes might be ideal for solving your supposed problem

>>716378162
>Complete gibberish
I guess you have me at a loss for words so congrats

>>716377889
Im not complaining about any classes i think theyre all fine. I mainly play scout, sniper, demo and engineer.

>>716378023
>To beat a sniper, you either have to hope he misses his shots
which is the most common case.
next most common case is a bodyshot, which does 50-150 damage with stock, with the higher end only occurring if hes got his eyes glued to his scope for 3 seconds (not doing damage and less aware of his surroundings).
the least common occurance (if the player being shot isnt walking in a straight line) is a headshot, which deals 150 (up to 450 if charged, but youre whining about quickscopes). i know that a youtuber told you that 150 is unbalanced because it kills light classes in one hit, but heres a reminder of who those classes are:
>scout
>eyelander demo
>engineer
>sniper
>medic
>spy
if you need me to tell you why a headshot on those classes is either meant to be easy or is deserved then youre a sub 100 hour retard.

and to your other point, again, you arent playing overwatch. if youve got such a bad sightline that one area is shut down by a single sniper, then take an alternative route. every map has at least one.
>other routes are well defended
them make a TEAM push in your TEAM game.
>their team is better than us when we push them
THEN PUSH THE ONE SNIPER AS A -TEAM- IN YOUR -TEAM GAME-, EVEN IF HES GOT ADDERALL FOR BLOOD HE CAN ONLY KILL ONE PERSON EVERY TWO SECONDS IF THEYRE ALL LIGHT CLASSES
>no im right
i figured.

>>716378329
the sniper whiner doesnt understand something, somebody get a camera

>>716378795
A crit rocket can literally kill almost every class in the game grouped up in 1 shot, nobody complains about that like they do with snipers. saying you gotta hope he misses is bullshit, ive used pyro to counter sniper with the flare guns because theyre annoying to deal with when im playing sniper.

>>716353786 (OP)
You guys realize the game is almost 20 years old, right?

>>716354859
>community maps

there is nothing wrong with community maps

>>716378985
>A crit rocket can literally kill almost every class in the game grouped up in 1 shot, nobody complains about that
holy fucking newfag, was today your first fucking match? youve never seen a random crit bind or heard the word crocket before?
>saying you gotta hope he misses is bullshit
did you fucking read my post? and not for nothing, why is it bullshit to say that he might miss but perfectly fine to speak like every shot he makes will be a headshot?
why is every sniper player in your retarded headcannon a genetic freak who doesnt miss a single shot? and if that ISNT the case, what is your argument? that if somebody is better than you at their class then theyre hard to manage? no fucking shit.

>>716367532
config issue, not the game.

>community servers
>play, at most, the same 5 maps on repeat forever
>casual
>can play hundreds of different maps
if community servers rotated through a wide array of maps, it'd be cool.

>>716379342
okay but you dont have uncle dane making his commie propaganda about crockets. Only wheelchair helmet wearing retards complain about crockets.

>>716379384
You say that but I can never fucking get maps that aren't Upward, Snakewater, 2fort or Egypt. Every other game mode and map is dead.

>>716379384
Nobody wants to play these new garbage community maps, and putting them on community servers would kill the already struggling server.

>>716379610
i get plenty of 5cp maps and degroot keep. if you're tired of getting the same 4 maps, just uncheck them and you get a different map. it works for me.

>>716353786 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOE8TK5UQEk

>>716379556
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHvwijT2ss8
im done responding to you after this, you have no idea what youre on about.

Was ZestyJesus right?

>>716374403
>No, every single one of the listed weapons has glaring flaws and are easy to counter even by inexperienced players
just like sniper
>You're just proving the point why Sniper is broken, there is no counterplay, your only move is to play around him while he doesn't interact with the battlefield at all
So you think you should be able to just walk up to him and kill him without him doing anything? Figured. No other class in the game gets treated like this. Where's all the fags mad at getting killed by sticky traps? Or getting bombed by a soldier? Or getting backstabbed?

oh it's time for the /v/ tf2 update ritual
1. shit on the new cosmetics
2. find the trans rights hidden on one of the new maps to flip your shit about
3. blame compfags somehow
4. never play the game

>>716379763
explain how any one of those points is unjustified.

>>716366745
The cow mangler is wrangler was even dumber.
He framed it as two very weak opponents duking it out, but it was literally the engineer's strongest unlock is the soldier's worst unlock for dealing with sentries. And then the engineer side could use whatever else they wanted like mini sentries and other wrenches.
Fucking retarded.

>>716358107
most of these are decent
I cannot fathom how these stupid ass demoman explosive themed novelty hats still get in the game every fucking update though

>>716372418
At most 10 maps.

>>716366745
it was funny

>>716379906
compare these to any cosmetic update before 2013 and explain why you would rather have these.

>>716369629
>rebalances
Balancing would literally mean opening a file on notepad and changing a value, these niggers cannot even bother doing that.

>>716379715
>Only wheelchair helmet wearing retards complain about crockets.
>Posts uncle dane complaining about crockets
You proved that i do know what I am talking about.

>>716380150
>added 2012

>>716380374
>i dont like this one set from this update so ur wrong
post everything from the update or dont bother with your dishonest argument. id trade every cosmetic that got released today for the fucking boo balloon and wouldnt blink.

yeah no. I'm sticking to the superior game

>>716380374
just to shit in you a bit more
>custom voice lines when using the set
>halloween restricted
meanwhile we get garbage ten times worse than this that you get to see all year round.

>>716379763
new cosmetics are always 90% garbage, fuck off.

>>716380736
>>716380568
>>716380820
This set is the least offensive "modern" cosmetic set we've seen in some time and /v/ is just primed to shit on them regardless of how bad they actually are. Their biggest issue is being similar to shit already in the game but that's been the case for about the past 10 years because the game is almost 2 decades old.
And trying to stick to your parameters, I think the cosmetics added with the triad update are mostly uninspired and don't suit the characters particularly well. The triad trinket is pretty good on Heavy, though. The groucho glasses are only significant for being used in some of the most intentionally ugly loadouts possible.

>>716379757
>So you think you should be able to just walk up to him and kill him without him doing anything
Yes, I also think Sniper's HP should be nerfed to 14 HP and his speed should be slower than a heavy
>No other class in the game gets treated like this.
Correct, 8 gorillion snipers get genocided every year
>Where's all the fags mad at getting killed by sticky traps? Or getting bombed by a soldier? Or getting backstabbed?
Everyone's busy with genociding innocent snipers

>>716381050
besides the fact that you picked an update with 4 total cosmetics
>a bunch of shit that only looks passable when used as a full set
vs
>4 items that look okay on their own but can also be used well with other cosmetics
only one that sucks is the cannonball, but that was more how they rigged it to each character. doesnt look like it properly fits anybody.
im tired or all these new sets that blatantly ignore the original workshop rules and only look good with themselves.

>>716379763
>never play the game
Playing 24/7 2fort with a wall of sentries holding off against endless stream of enemies while people are talking about mad shit in VC is still peak TF2

>>716374463
What happened to goldrush?

They should've stopped updating TF2 before it went F2P.

>get 12 killstreak, almost win the round
>Get autobalanced 20 seconds before the game is over
Some things never change

>>716376540
Just reverting weapons.
But since castaway already exist, I'm helping them out instead.

>Citadel isnt medival payload
putting sentries on the cart is cool I guess.

>>716353786 (OP)
First Summer update where I don't really care. I logged on to a Harvest server to get a case and it was already less than $0.10.

>>716381350
but you got 500 casual experience points, isnt that worth suffering through casual?

>>716381350
Worst part is that some dipshits will say "Team scramble was the same thing".
Anyone who tries to say team scramble is the same thing as auto-balance are fucking idiots.

Matchmaking kills the flow and pace of certain game modes so hard. Yes, I like getting stomped on KOTH maps only for the match have a downtime of 15 seconds before I get to play again.

>>716373359
>Got mine like a decade ago for ten bucks
I'M RICH

>>716381412
never been on castaway. as long as almost everything is pre TBand the phlog charge heals id give a thumbs up.

>>716354859
>10 maps
cool
>23 items, 7 hats, 7 taunts
Oh, thats why I hate this bullshit

>>716354859
will it kill them add a couple of new weapons at least once? There are like hundreds of concepts in the workshop and some of them even with proposed effects.

>>716356784
Try another time. For some reason TF2 works like shit some times

>>716381729
>phlog charge heals
They haven't implement that yet. Mine already does.
I figure they will make the phlog revert someday unless they have a bias against pyro or something.

>Citadel
What the fuck, this is literally Sniper's heaven

>>716358107
A lot of repeat cosmetics (lol elite grade cap) but at the same time nothing TOO ugly and somehow most of them don't fall into the trap of looking good only in their own isolated set. However,
>another fucking beanie
>another fucking lol bomb demo cosmetic at that
Overall, an aggressively passable case. 6/10.

>>716381965
just make the taunt have no damage resist then. uber/damage resist only existed for the animals anyway, the heal was the entire reason i used it
>show up from odd angles with the detonator
>not reliant on high traffic medpack areas or medics, so you can play whatever part of the map you want and maintain that
>choice of either popping crits and having a full health bar to det jump in with or eating the crits to get a comfortable top off
>actually felt powerful in close range scenarios instead of being a puff and sting slut or a class for aimlets
plus particle knowledge actually mattered back then.
was one of the most "true to pyros original design philosophy" weapons ever released. i want to choke out anyone who says the uber was a buff, and i hear it all the time.

>>716381981
some retard said the other day that new maps have big sightlines for Sniper which is not that true, but holy shit these new maps have some crazy spots for Sniper, Citadel is insane.

>>716381981
In Citadel you can hide on the rooftops and nobody will ever see you.But by far the worse map of this update is Aquarius.

>aquarius
hey i played that map
it was bad
though i don't know if it was because the map itself is bad or because i was playing mann vs mann and the map couldn't handle it

>>716381981
the cart is actually fun af to push. Sightlines are huge, but otherwise kino map.

Fulgur best map. Zestygod was right, it's very fun.

Cargo is so fucking mediocre. 2 point CP map. They could've easily made it more fun if they added a gimick like moving cargo as environmental hazards and allowing you to jump off the ledge. The aesthetic is soul but it also lacks enough soul to be good.

Confiner is ok but it's short.

Blowout is shit. No one likes koth. Lacks soul.

Mannhole nothing interesting going on again. It's bloat.

Pressure is alright but it's not the fun kind of CTF where a round can go on for 30 mins. The intel's in the open.

That's my reddit take, give me gold sir please.

>>716381981
haven't seen any sniper making a difference in citadel. they're too busy getting air bombed by soldiers and demomen

Aquarius is fucking cancer holy shit.

Aquarius is fun occasionally for its gimmick but yeah it's pretty terrible. Scout is a fucking menace in the water. Gave me an excuse to run shotgun soldier though.

I'm still not sold on the idea of a sentry on a payload objective.

Aquarius would be kino without the retarded underwter gimmick.

>map is called demolition
>it's all demoman spam

You people still play this shit? Go fight a civil war already.

I don't really care for most of the new maps.

the obsession with making every new TF2 map have 15 flank routes and passages to get to a point is just dumb, the game wasn't designed to be played like that and makes defense a slog to play. This is why Hydro was removed in the first place. I'll stick to Badwater tyvm for reading my blog.

>>716383326
Neither does the community.
We're stuck with badwater/upward/snowycoast forever and ever

>>716383379
You can thank youtubers for spamming the
>dustbowl bad
>chokepoints bad
meme over and over again

>>716379742
Yes but he's been too much of a fag latley for me to want to give that to him

>>716383379
Yeah, that's the reason nobody gave a fuck about snowplow after wasting so much time asking valve to add it in.
They never learn

>>716378997
Your point?

Honestly I'd like more chokey maps like dustbowl, but nobody ever wants to make them anymore

>Cuck Elysium shit in tf2
oh nononono

>>716383379
You rike?

>>716383190
I don't think I've ever seen a map designed so aggressively to fuck over Sniper. Remove the dumb shortcut gimmick and rework the second path and it could be a decent map because of that.

>>716383651
I hate these tf2 jewtubers that act like the fucking pope for tf2. They are all retarded and act like they know all, this games already fun. Uncle dane visiting valve makes me wanna slam that faggots head into his laptop on that shitty podcast with idubbbz

>>716367872
kek

>Cargo
Run of the mill atk/def map, not very memorable aside from the fact that youre on a boat
>Conifer
Almost feels like a mini atk/def map, which is sort of neat
>Fulgur
I like this one a lot. Each capture area plays very differently.
>Pressure
Reminds me of double cross, so its based. I dont think we needed two underwater maps, but here we are.
>Blowout
Could not get a game of this one, dont know if thats a bad sign
>Boardwalk
I like this version more than the halloween version. An okay koth map.
>Demolition
I like small maps, but this is pushing it. Feels claustrophobic.
>Mannhole
Very fun koth map. Small, but still enough stuff going on to give you strategic options.
>Acquarius
I actually dig it, but it needs work. I like how the torpedo lowers at the beginning and you fight underwater. I like how the shark chomps the bomb at the end. It at the minimum needs way, way more signage and guidance, for both teams. The layout is just a little too strange for casual play.
>Citadel
Art style feels too far away from other maps. Riding the tank is fun, but the map itself just feels off. The drawbridge was a nice touch, though.

>>716363985
I don't play TF2 anymore but I'll watch the funny compilations.

So Citadel is just Elden Ring right? the coloring makes it seem like it and the Eldtree is the antenna.

>Aquarius
5/10
Looks incredible but shit gimmick. Everything outside of the water areas is fun though.
>Boardwalk
6/10
Decent koth map but sniper and engie can be kind of annoying. Doesn't flow well.
>Citadel
8/10
The cart gimmick is actually pretty cool. Great engie and spy map.
It's a bit long though and sniper can be oppressive.
>Demolition
1/10
Unplayable. Extremely claustrophobic and way too many invisible walls.
Makes junction look spacious in comparison.
>Mannhole
7/10
Someone with a scat fetish made this map.
Good gameplay but why a sewer?
>Blowout
6/10
Very generic. Lacking imagination. Not much else to say.
>Cargo
6/10 Feels a bit attacker sided and mostly hallway combat.
>Conifer
5/10 Too short. Boring.
>Fulgur
10/10
Wasn't sold on it initially but it's a lot of fun to play.
The warm colors, creative architecture, and good use of lighting really elevate this map.
Feels very comfy.
>Pressure
6/10
I like the concept but being CTF it's only good for TDM and not much else.
Sound design is nice and spooky. Water tunnel flanks are interesting but not needed when the map is already enormous.

>>716365336
wow i can really tell this is heavy weapons guy from tf2!

I still don't understand why they gutted Degreaser and Axetinguisher
>oh noes, I got into melee ranged of a close range class and died, volve nerf he pls

>>716385335
because pyro is the designated retard class and isn't allowed to have anything other than w+m1

>>716385335
They did it back when pyro could press M2 and stunlock you into the corner without you being able to do anything about it

>>716385621
Airblast STILL stuns you. it's just a dice roll whether you move 1 ft or get airblasted to the moon now.

>>716364340
You can already make Heavy look like Harry too, there's an existing cosmetic of the same hair.

I like citadel

there are way too many maps in this game. getting a match on the more niches ones you like was already too hard years ago.

>no new pd map
fuck

>>716371823
>just hope the sniper has no teammates and can't hit rocket jumpers

am I weird for actually really liking Slasher?
I know it's deep into the era of community halloween maps just throwing everything in together with little rhyme or reason but something about it hits right

>>716384895
At least you can tell which team he's on.

>>716385680
Airblast doesn't stun you like it used to.
Before you could literally do nothing about it and the pyro didn't even to aim at the floor.

I wanted to try again after 10 years but the game looks like a skin walker version of what I played a long time ago…
It’s TF2 yet it doesn’t look the same. Players don’t plays the same or act the same. I can’t find any of the old community servers and old fan maps. Hell I barely can’t see a majority of the old official maps.
Many cosmetic looks more out of place than even the official alien one. And even taunts loves in a way TF2 shouldn’t move

Is this a common sentiment or is it just me?

Why the hell are big YouTubers considered so important to TF2 now this wasn’t the case before

>>716386642
basically an unbroken chain since jerma/ster except they mostly just made content inside the game whereas modern tubers always have to have something opinionated to say about the game
there's probably people who are fans of tf2 youtubers without ever having touched the game

>>716386492
>And even taunts loves in a way
I meant «moves in a way»

>>716353786 (OP)
>summer 2020 crate is like 100 times more expencive than the usual crate
What makes these so special?

>>716386949
the unusual effects are pretty vibrant I guess

>>716371019
>18 year old game
>it looks better than literally any 2025 ue5slop
we've regressed so hard as a society

First time I'm gonna play this in 4 years

>>716387103
An engine has nothing really to do with how a game looks unless you use default lighting which almost no one does
People just follow trends on what’s popular so similar looks happens to be made

>>716386142
I never played this map for real.

I just stood in the underworld with a medic and killed everyone that came through. I can't play it any other way.

>>716387159
TIL trend = default engine settings

>>716386142
>be scout
>run to the underworld
>rape the point and/or enemy spawn with crits and rare spells
>do it all again
One of the most sadistically fun maps in the entire game, and it's a shame I can only play it for one month of the year.

fulgur is kino
rest is ass

>>716387103
For starter, TF2 doesn't use deferred rendering which requires two dozens layers of makeup to render one frame.So MSAA only needs to upscale edges once instead of 12 times.

What's the hat I can combine with rail spikes painted black to make the gayest leather daddy-adjacent pyro possible

>>716386716
ster whined about mini sentry being borderline invincible while building and Valve nerfed it in less than a month.
Valve has always take balancing advice from Youtubers but it wasn't a big deal until compfags are involved.

>>716385335
Degreaser and the airblast were nerfed right around the time b4nny whined about both of them.

>>716386492
its over
and every day its just more over than before

fulgur and citadel are kino
the rest is ass

Demolition and Aquarius are the worse maps in the update. Plus they got tranny shit in them.
Fulgur and Cargo are neat.

>>716386492
The playerbase is probably the most jarring aspect of the game that changed. Your usual match will now just consist of a few Mexican children who downloaded the game for the first time, and the rest will be 10,000 hour no life sweaty niggers who haven't slept in 5 weeks. It's completely unfun.

Probably the worst cosmetic case so far lol.
And Demolition is such a tiny fuckass map. Zero playtesting as always, so long as Jill's friends at groomtorium get their paycheck.

>>716378023
>you either have to hope he misses his shots
This defeatist mindset tells you everything you need to know about the people seething over sniper. Zero acknowledgement that you are capable of influencing anything about the encounter. Evidence to any decent player that you're just trash at the game.

>>716387998
>Be valve
>actively resent the community by cutting off communication due to the Invasion Update fiasco
>Only accept hats from fuckheads who who were in charge of the aforementioned update
Are they stupid?

>>716385917
dead game mode, what did you expect?

>>716386492
Only players left are sweaty compfags and third world children, everyone else moved on.

>>716387998
>Probably the worst cosmetic case so far lol.
Winter and Halloween 2021 says hello.

Why did they remove the heatmakers tracers from other weaposn. That was so cool

>>716386492
the average skill level totally different, and it has to do with how easy is to access information today. Back then there were far more newer players and people just innocently playing the game, you could see Pyros with 500 hours and still couldn't left click. Now you have fresh installs reflecting, spychecking everyone like schizos, soldiers rocket jumping and bhoping with less than 200 hours and it's because every new players searches on youtube what to do and how to play, how to be a team player and all that stupid shit zoomers do.

>>716388360
God, Christ, I forgot how bad those ones are. Literally ZERO decent cosmetics.

Okay I will download this shit AGAIN.

>>716388627
The curse of METAs being much bigger now and YouTubers
People no longer really play randomly or to experiment on their own. They have to follow an «optimal» strategy
And on the reverse side of this there’s those who seemingly don’t want to even play the game. Who yell if you do the objective or yell if you kill a friendly (who used to be much less numerous)

>>716388627
The curse of METAs being much bigger now and YouTubers
People no longer really play randomly or to experiment on their own. They have to follow an «optimal» strategy
And on the reverse side of this there’s those who seemingly don’t want to even play the game. Who yell if you do the objective or yell if you kill a friendly (who used to be much less numerous)

And add to this a celebrity worship culture. People who only repeat what their YouTubers have said.
I saw some people complaining NOW about community servers being dead but they have being dead for the almost a damn decade now and it’s their fault for letting it this way. Now even if they returned I feels like it wouldn’t be the same as in the past

>>716365014
amogus vibes

>>716368431
imagine even knowing what the effects are called

>>716389145
wanna buy my unusual modest pile of hat, effect gassy doodoo piss fart

Why do trannies keep hiding their retarded meaningless slogan everywhere?

How would they feel if I hid a swastika deep inside my cosmetic and maps?

>>716389678
Trolling, plain and simple

>>716389678
I don't know. It's not like the community would rather be stuck in 2fort purgatory than playing those.

>>716389925
Demolition is by far the worst map too

>>716389976
best*

>harry du bois heavy
what a fucking retarded choice kek

>>716390012
Even redditards dislike it.

I like fulghur and citadel

>>716389678
what did they do this time?

>>716353786 (OP)
MEGA POST - OPERATION LIGHT UP THE NIGHT https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cd1i--_QaR8
1st most important if you live in US Canada
1‑800‑847‑2911
As soon as you hear the a robo voice press 0
THEY HAVE STATED THEY ARE ALREADY GETTING MASSIVE COMPLAINTS HOMDING UP THEIR LINES, THIS MEAND ITS COSTING THEM MONEY

If outside America
13039671096
+13039671090
This is REVERSE BILLED meaning Visa LOSES MONEY when you call

If you are too lazy to call (you really should) then spam these targeted email addresses.
Company: Mastercard
CEO: Michael Miebach
Contact Form (B2B/Sales): https://b2b.mastercard.com/contact-us/
Email: investor.relations@mastercard.com

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CEO: Ryan McInerney
Contact Form: https://usa.visa.com/contact-us.html
Support Email: checkoutwithvisa@visa.com

General Press/Media: press@visa.com

Europe Media: europepress@visa.com
ethics@visa.com
corporate.secretary@mastercard.com

Hope you fags are reposting this fucking EVERYWHERE on the internet.
Zoomies are gonna have a fucking field day with this.

>>716390453
What if we submit it as a bug report since it looks garish?

why can't I que for the new maps specifically?

>>716390453
Trannies are so deranged. This is a mental victory and nothing else.

>>716384008
You sound mad

>>716390453
>worst map in the update was made by a tranny

>>716390550
Because you're gay, I'm able to.

>>716388627
>>716389014
It's the issue with this sandnigger culture of domination everywhere instead of cooperation, everyone is supposed to submit to the will of degenerate psychopaths. Those demonic cunts will tryhard the game for thousands of hours in cheat modes to improve their aim instead of playing the game normally, then they'll join casual matches to rape everyone with double the points of the second guy on their team at all times, and they'll victim blame by saying "I'm not tryharding at this exact second!" as if that excused their thousands of hours of tryharding before.

They're such lying niggers, not a single one of them will never admit to tryharding and ruining the fun when they hoard half the kills of a 10 men team. You get even one of those niggers joining a game of 20 people, and suddenly everyone is supposed to "step up" and gain thousands of hours of training in the duration of a single match to be allowed to have fun. They join a server with 20 people and expect everyone to submit to their desires, and then victim blame you when you call them out on it.

There should genuinely be teams of sane moderators who review those players, and systematically ban them from casual play if they do not stop tryharding. Those "veterans" kill every single game they're in, they're parasites.

Every multiplayer game or solo game with a loud community gets raped to death by those incel retards who want their games to provide a challenge for 30k hours. They hate fun, they hate casual play, they hate cooperation, they just want to assrape everyone and be congratulated for it while spitting at their victims.

No, neither I nor the other 99% of the real, not incel playerbase, should be forced to train for thousands of hours to reach max skill on every class. Scouts who can 2 tap every normal player every single time are utter cancer, snipers who insta headshot everyone aren't fun, et caetera.

>>716353786 (OP)
Oh wow 10 new maps no one will be playing a month from now.

/V/ IS THIS SNIPER RED OR BL-
Aaaand I'm dead

>every new hat has 3 different styles
Can these hacks just pick one and fuck off with the rest

>>716383472
>dustbowl bad
but thats true

>>716384008
You sound based.
>>716391219
Keep slurping that jewtuber cock and don't forget to zip em up when you're done, buddy.

>>716353786 (OP)
the most overrated fps ever.

>>716392631
God damn it, not again.

>>716393091
But enough about halo

>>716392631
just fucking stop updating the game I dont even understand why they keep adding new cosmetics and new maps the game would be perfect if they just reversed every summer update since like 2020 no one gives a shit

>>716392631
brehs

>>716360334
>REEEE VALVE YOU NEED TO ADD THE PEOPLE LIKE ME UPDATE AND REMOVE SNIPER
>I'M GONNA MAKE AN HOUR LONG VIDEO SCREAMING ABOUT HOW NOBODY PLAYS TF2 AND BOT USER SERVERS IF YOU DON'T
Kill yourself Zesty

>>716360730
Tf2 market is ridiculously fucked because of manipulation
CS:2 hilariously has too many fucking players for retards to get away with
>There is le infinity craets and mettle
Bullshit the jews of the tf2 market get up to
Although pretty hilariously the market is turbo dead and it's getting WAY WAY too obvious that they just make up the value of everything and inflate shit with alts.

>>716362853
Good.
Even if it meant a "balance" update where they unfucked all the shit stupid nigger tftumors ruined in gun mettle through jungle inferno I still wouldn't want it.
Fuck you, get sodomized with a rake

>>716365879
Nigger you were never there in 2007

>>716393424
If you can't tell which is red or blue might as well just kill yourself.

>>716393854
I'll never understand why bills hat, earbuds and max's w/e dropped so hard in keys, when keys are infinite.
>>716376110
>allow non-strange weapons to be uncrated
Do you mean with the painted weapons or something?

>>716394162
>I'll never understand
The TF2 market is bullshit, that's all there is to it.
Don't even begin to think about how mann co keys are LITERALLY worthless now since the crates you use them on haven't dropped in TEN FUCKING YEARS.

>>716358107
none of them are in unique quality therefore I am not interested

>>716392935
Samefagging much?

>>716394240
Oh yeah I forgot. Should I have sold my keys?

>>716386883
you corrected yourself and you're still wrong lmao

>>716394305
No, not really, like I said the value is complete bullshit and has zero relation to their actual value.

>>716353786 (OP)
are there still any servers with all chat and good bants going?
I suppose there may be a few smaller servers where old people that know eachother still play, but I used to be able to just randomly pick up a server and fit right in. I think it would be awkard now. but maybe I'm just an old man who doesn't know how to have fun anymore
crazy to think this game was released 18 years ago
feels like just yesterday
time, man
it just goes

>>716394162
>I'll never understand why bills hat, earbuds and max's w/e dropped so hard in keys
all those hats/misc were valued higher than normal because they were used as currency. They dropped in price because whales had hundreds or thousands of them, eventually they decided to dump them in mass thus the devaluation with the buds price drop being the most infamous. After that people moved on from using items as currency and just stick to keys.
>>716394240
TF2 keys are being sold for $2.45 on the steam community market right now you stupid fucking retarded nigger, 5cents lower than the official store.

>>716386250
this exact pyro made me remove cosmetics from tf2

>>716394882
>are there still any servers with all chat and good bants going?
nope, nobody bothers to chat anymore on TF2. Well, nobody bothers to chat on any game at this point, matchmaking killed online interaction in games, people finish a match and just move on to the next one. The new generation doesn't care about creating a community anymore, things have changed a lot.

>>716394882
>are there still any servers with all chat and good bants going?
oprah's gas station
1 or 2 furry servers
that's it

>>716392506
>They hate fun, they hate casual play, they hate cooperation, they just want to assrape everyone and be congratulated for it while spitting at their victims.
from your sperg meltdown this is your only valid point and the culprit are compniggers who treat casual like if it was a comp match, stomping players with a pocket kritz up their ass and killing everyone with less than 500 hours on sight.
Casual players with 10k hours may be able to stomp a game for obvious reasons but at the end of the day they are still casual players and behave completely different to compfaggots who have 20 scripts installed and spend 6 hours every day on MGE like the autistic retards they are.

>>716395243
>Matchmaking killed online interaction in games
Actually that'd be your retarded ecelebs and their fake communities.
Plenty of people all the way through gen before last on xbox managed to establish communities despite the primary means of playing with people being matchmaking.
Sorry to tear the nuts off the lie you've been sold.

>>716395243
>matchmaking killed online interaction in games, people finish a match and just move on to the next one
this is such an obvious downgrade in online gaming
and it just happened

>>716394240
Just like the dollar is LITERALLY worthless now since the gold you could redeem with it hasn't been available for like two hundred fucking years. Right?

>>716394882
The /mlp/ server

>>716356784
It has been fucked like this for a long time.

>>716356784
use a lower mastercomfig, turn off ragdolls for example and gibs and fragments and shit
also unironically consider a new cpu. I had a computer from 2015 that could run tf2 at ~150-200fps but would drop below 80 like you say with lots of objects or on some maps. I recently upgraded and now it runs at 900fps with "drops" to 500 with lots of objects. yeah they added a lot of poorly optimised stuff over time but at its core it's still a 2007 game and computers have gotten a lot better recently

>>716381291
Forgotten, relegated to unbalanced 3vs8 games because it's not on the youtuber rotation

Do people still use community servers? I’m not talking about giant servers handled by some YouTubers I mean it like how it was 15 years ago
The option is still in the game so some SHOULD still exist

>>716387604
Mean Captain?

>>716394296
Meds, jewtuber cockslurper.

>>716398658
Yes but with the big asterisk that said youtubers mad that they can't bot official servers now attack X's Team Fortress 2 Server because they're mad it's REALLY fucking easy to run them now (Literally anyone can use the Create a Server button and it just works).

>>716398812
You think about sucking dicks too much, my guy.

>>716398658
You have a couple of big networks (mainly skial), you have small niche servers for actual communities like the party /v/an, and then you have alternative/meme gamemodes like jump servers or 24/7 allcrits x1000.
Of these, skial probably has something or a regular playerbase, independent community servers sometimes have a very timezone or even day of week dependent userbase (for the ones who aren't dead), and alt gamemode servers often have 4-8 dedicated autists who do nothing but jerk on the server all day every day but rarely have more players than that.

>>716381483
You never actually get these points, I got autobalanced 4 times in one game once and didn't even get 500.

honestly if they removed matchmaking and brought back quickplay i'd be content with no more further updates, even with the raped balance.

>>716399779
Yes we know you want people forced into your megafaggot youtuber server that people are avoiding shut up.

>>716358107
that pyro set is absolutely fucking hideous
disco elysium heavy is kinda funny but poorly executed, you could already do it with engie and it fit better

>>716398135
Oh no that's the thing, never had an issue with the game dropping below 100 FPS before, it was always pretty smooth, and I was playing vanilla so it wasn't even optimized.
But ever since I re-installed, I have regular dip below 10 FPS whenever I have like multiple players or gibs or ragdoll in the camera (including ones that are hidden from view).

>>716399226
But enough about you.

>>716353786 (OP)
What things did you actually purchase in this game?

>>716392631
To be perfectly honest, for sniper it shouldn't matter what color he is. If he's across the field you have to cross, he's enemy and will shoot you. If you are sniper too and he's in your scope, click on head.
Unlike pyros and other classes, there's like no reason at all for sniper to be anywhere in front of you past setup time.
But yeah, paints were a mistake.

>>716400390
Visual clarity, you see a guy on the other side of the map, the first thing you want to know is whether he's your teammate or not, then what class he is.

>>716387604
pyro has literally half a dozen peaked caps. take your pick, halford

>>716395416
All my points are valid, and it makes no difference whether it's a "comp or casual" if they both spend the same hundreds of hours training in the same MGE. They don't have the skill that comes with experience, but the one that comes with incel training on servers all alone with bots for aim tracking multiple hours a day for months on end.

And they always act as if that was the norm, as if not being a slave to training hundreds or thousands of hours in non-real gameplay maps or tools was the weird thing, as if everyone should do exactly what they do. That's the equivalent of an expert marathon runner showing up uninvited to a high school track and calling everyone trash for not being on his level, fuck you nigger, you should be hanged for acting that way. Imagine being such a solipsistic insane incel that the moment you waste your time learning some useless skill, you demand from everyone else that they do the same. Imagine Magnus Carlsen going to every local chess tournament for kids to just insult them.

I don't like payload

I love payload

>>716400281
You don't have to keep your true self hidden, sweetie pie.

>>716400390
Whoa whoa whoa buddy don't you know context clues you is basically cheating?
Now hold on while I whip out another hypothetical that assumes the sniper is using an aimbot

I wanna fuck the payload and get it pregnant.

>>716353786 (OP)
Okay? It's still the same game with broken god awful matchmaking.
>cosmetics
Mostly garbage that is either poorly made, or goes against the artistic image of the game.
>maps
Only 1-2 decent additions, but really there should be no additions since the player base is already spread too thin. All the other maps are shit.
>unusual effects
More paypiggy slop for whales to consoom.

Meanwhile the identity of the game is now well on its way to fading completely, the matchmaking is STILL completely fucking ass and makes the game anti-fun to play, and faggots/trannies still run cabals of """content creation""" where they act as if they're the "community" of the game while ostracizing anyone who isn't them out of the field.

Let me know when they re-add quickplay (and remove casual matchmaking) at the very least.

>>716372418
2Fort
Harvest
Upward
Badwater
Borneo (sometimes)
Gold Rush (sometimes)
And that's about it.

This isn't entirely because every other map is bad. There's actually a lot of good maps. It's that casual matchmaking has made every gamemode except Payload practically unplayable. Harvest and 2Fort are only really played because they are the image of their respective gamemodes and even then these games go by super quick and aren't fun at all because you have THREE FUCKING ROUNDS MAX TO PRAY FOR BALANCED TEAMS

>>716401252
>VALVE ADDED TO MANY MAPS SO I CAN'T PRETEND THE GAME DOESN'T GET UPDATED
>AND THEY DIDN'T FEED MORE CHILDREN TO UNCLE ZESTY'S PEDOPHILE PARADISE
Cry more faggot.

>>716379763
Yep, an autogynephile hid his political message into an accepted map.

>>716399957
>Yes we know you want people forced into your megafaggot youtuber server that people are avoiding shut up.
Widely overblown. Also ignores official valve servers. You are a faggot.

>>716401634
>hurr hurr you did this and say this that why you bad
Strange that you get mad when someone criticizes your objectively ruined game. Don't you have karma to farm on your big gay subreddit you disgusting freak?

>>716361328
>CS2 has like 10x the player count
wouldn't that mean more crates therefore higher supply and lower price?

>>716398135
Bullshit,
I know a guy with a fucking 7800X3D with RTX 4090 plus a N64 config and the game STILL drops to 300+ FPS.

>>716401829
>The game is objectively ruined by:
>Not forcing people to play with faggots they are actively avoiding
>Not fucking mulching evrything in the game some retard youtuber died to in the past 5 minutes
But I'm reddit, right?

>there are actually """people""" who defend the current state of TF2 and it's new additions just because valve is updating the game
How do these people exist? What is the actual foundation of their defense? "Just be glad that you're getting anything" mentality?

>>716401882
Too big and too many active participants for the manipulation that goes on with tf2's market.

>>716400235
Well that's weird, and that does sound like something's actually wrong.

>>716401896
I don't know what to tell you, I've got a 9800x3d, which should be a bit better but not massively.
GPU makes no difference by the way, I upgraded them separately so for a couple of weeks I had the new CPU and my old GTX1070, I was still getting the same FPS numbers as I'm getting now with a new GPU.

That said I haven't played, like, wutville or whatever, I mostly play normal maps. So maybe I just haven't experienced the worst.

>>716402014
>>Not forcing people to play with faggots they are actively avoiding
>>Not fucking mulching evrything in the game some retard youtuber died to in the past 5 minutes
Nigger, what the fuck are you even talking about at this point? Are you off your meds? Schizo-tier reply.

>>716402038
>YOU NEED TO ATTACK VALVE THEY SAID MY YOUTUBER CAN'T HOST BOTS ANYMORE
>YOU CAN'T LIKE NEW MAPS BECAUSE YOUTUBE DAD SAID SO
How do THESE people exist, and why do they think this shit flies on /v/?

>>716402143
Nigger that is quickplay and "balance" changes. That is what they're asking for.
It's the same thing they've BEEN asking for, for the past 8 years when Valve realized it was fucking retarded to listen to these troglodytes and ghosted them.

HEY EVERY

>>716402423
>Spanish

>>716400376
I have an oldass secondary account with 30 of these old crates and I don't remember my steam password for it

>>716402014
>>716402260
>play with faggots they are actively avoiding
This has never been an issue. Nobody was complaining about this during quickplay. Nobody was advocating for matchmaking with the idea that it was to prevent someone from pursuing you. What actually happened is that matchmaking came out and people were pissed that they couldn't just join their friends game anymore without going through the clunky slow matchmaker or play against their friends.

>>716402485
Most of them aren't worth shit anyway. Unless they're very specific crates

>>716402543
>Um servers and their 'communities' don't exist anymore because I say so
>You can't play with your friends in matchmaking because I say so and you have to join a shitty youtubers server NOOO STOP STOP STOP JOINING EACHOTHER'S PARTY AND GETTING IN A GAME TOGETHER STOP USING THE CREATE SERVER BUTTON ON THE MAIN MENU STOOOOOOP I'M GONNA HOST BOTS TO STOP YOU REEEEEEE
You are fooling nobody.

>>716395365
>oprah's gas station
that place is orbiter central and runs the same shit maps with way too many players

>>716355073
way too many, I haven’t played like 80% of the maps and I have over 2000 hours, can’t be bothered to learn all these community meme maps

they should honestly have a classic mode without hats and skins and new weapons I'd play that

>>716392506
I remember one of the first threads I ever saw on here was making fun of servers that autobanned players who were too good. Kind of amazing how /v/ has gone from that to anons having full blown meltdowns because they got pubstomped in TF2 and calling players better than them degenerate psychopaths for practicing and getting good.

>>716402767
>criticize game
>"YOU HOST BOTS YOU LIKE E CELEBS"
What?

>>716386492
>Is this a common sentiment or is it just me?
It's a re-emerging sentiment. Playerbase is starting to realize that they monkey's pawed themselves by asking for updates and that they are actively being screwed over by Valve and shit like the TF2 Emporium.

But yes, TF2 is going the way of Call of Duty and Rainbow Six, just slower. It's suffering an identity crisis and the overall map pool is bloated to hell and back with shit maps that nobody plays.

>>716402987
>muh metldowns
No phrase can express that you're a basement dweller more than this one. You waste hundreds of hours downloading and playing maps that provide impossible gameplay in the actual game, to gain in a few hundred hours skills that would legit take 20k hours playing only the real game to acquire, then you act as if it was necessary for everyone to do as well, and if anyone doesn't like your massive incel tryharding ruining the balance of a 20 person game they're somehow the problem.

Just admit you're a micro-dick incel looking for every possible advantage in a casual game to ruin it so you can win at something once in your life. No sane player practices hundreds of hours in training maps to then go play with the diamondback and have double the points of anyone else in the server.

As you just said, you inane fucking nigger, it's a PUB. Why do you feel entitled to come ruin it by tryharding to the max to fuck over every player who wants a casual experience? If you just wanted to get stupid good at the game in an unfun way, then you'd play comp to apply your retarded skills, but you don't, you specifically go ruin pubs to feel good about your pathetic "life".

You bunch of niggers ruin every single game you ever touch, filthy diseased ridden parasites.

>>716369629
They don't want the aftercare if they rebalance shit. Nerfing or buffing weapons aren't a one time thing, people are going to want buffs and nerfs after a rebalance all over again and that's too much for these lazy faggots

>>716403490
>You waste hundreds of hours downloading and playing maps
lmao
You really think everybody who disagrees with you or everybody who can pubstomp is doing that? People don't need to do that to shit on you. You're not that good. Fags like you always have such a massive ego and think anybody better than you must be devoting their entire life to it. You get so upset over losing or seeing better players while acting like other people are freaks for wanting to win or trying to improve at the game.

>>716393424
This one's on the Frontiersman for not being teamcolored

>>716404059
>who can pubstomp is doing that?
If you can consistently hit headshots as a sniper at close range under half a second on any player that actually surprises you, if you can consistently 2 shot every non-heavy class as scout, if you can manipulate hitboxes as spy to the point it looks like magic and even a player keeping you perfectly in front and moving backwards gets stabbed... If you can do that, yes, you did not acquire this skill naturally, everyone knows it.

You're such a filthy arrogant lying nigger, and you know it, and it's why your kind need to all gt their throats slit. It's not me vs you, it's you ruining the balance for the 19 OTHER PLAYERS IN THE GAME. You're not just better than genuinely 100% of the players on any casual match you join, you have more than double their score, every single match, and you specifically use items to maximize it like the diamondback that punishes players for their teammates mistakes. That's not natural, and you know it, fucking nigger.

And again, if you were trying to git gud, you'd play comp, but you us your cheating training to ruin the game for normal players, instead of going to your pen with the other incels, because you know how repulsive you are, and now, like the good little bitch you are, you will report this post to the tranny jannies because you fucking fags always pull this shit, kill yourself nigger, no one wants you, everyone hates you and wishes to see you dead with your throat slit in the middle of the street.

>>716402987
/v/eddit is dogshit at video games, go figure

>>716404621
>the only thing that matters is your raw performance, fuck fun, fuck fair play, I'm going to force every kid who wants to play soccer to fight against the national team so they get raped and I'll just tell them DUH GIT GUD when the say the match is unfair
Niggers like you are why multiplayer games are dying.

>>716404413
My main experience is just playing CS a bunch with my friends as a teenager and I regularly get accused of cheating as sniper and have no problems pubstomping in TF2. Get over yourself, retard. There are plenty of people naturally better than you. You're not nearly as good as you think you are.
>kill yourself nigger, no one wants you, everyone hates you and wishes to see you dead with your throat slit in the middle of the street.
Normal response from a fun loving casual that doesn't care about winning the nanosecond they run into anybody better than them or start losing.

>>716405058
>DUH WINNING WINNING WINNING WINNING I SAID THE WORD WINNING MOM PLEASE LOVE ME
Fucking insufferable nigger. Getting raped isn't the same as losing. A scout getting 10 kills in 20 shots isn't winning, he's raping everyone.

>My main experience is just playing CS a bunch with my friends as a teenager
Bullshit, every single one of you nigger has a fake backstory. You're all as fake as bodybuilders pretending they don't use steroids, we know you're lying like a soviet commie, no use in pretending. We know what you are, absolute scum, and you live only to spread misery like the bitch nigger you are. Fucking evil subhuman filth.

>>716404621
/v/ wasn't that good at games then either but goddamn they were at least willing to try and git gud. This faggot would get his own screencap so everybody could point and laugh at him back then and now he's just another seething anon.

>>716405294
>Bullshit, every single one of you nigger has a fake backstory
lol, whatever you want to tell yourself. Keep conjuring stories for people to cope how them beating you wasn't actually fair. Nobody could possibly just be much better than you naturally, right?

>>716403045
Went to take a shit but
>criticize game
>90% is fantastical waffle about who is allowed to play the game where and how this will magically make things better
>The other is "balance"
>both are EIGHT FUCKING YEAR OLD talking points from ecelebs that nobody actually likes
>Intentionally misconstruing a collective accusation for a personal one

Huh. Funny, I just reinstalled the game for the first time in half a decade. Oh well, back to cp_orange.

>>716384008
You are based

>>716384008
most jewtubers are also competitive fags which is why the game went to shit>>716406337

>>716402038
The game has been in this state for almost a decade now, there’s a whole generation of TF2 players that don’t know any better, that never got to expedience a major update. This minimal effort they’ve been fed for years is all they know

>>716402038
>>716406802
I don't get it. I played it in orange box times and I went thru the major updates. The game is done now, every character has a huge array of equipment, so there are only getting maps and such. Makes sense no?
I am extremely dissatisfied with the fact that equipment drops are rng + pay to win, but that's the direction they took I guess. You expect a major update to roll it all back? What's the expectation exactly

>>716406802
Every fucking faggot youtuber asking for quickplay and balance changes is at best an f2p fag, and even in the miraculous effort they actually played back then and didn't just buy someone's old mule. That wouldn't make their opinion less shit.