>your great grandfather made a game 100 years ago so now you'll be fined every day the servers aren't up even though computers don't exist anymore

and thats a good thing.

totally bro that's exactly what the campaign wants to happen

I'm so fucking tired of asmongold

>>716412048 (OP)
Pajeet or retard. Call it.

>blatant lie
good morning sir

>>716412048 (OP)
Hey, jews use what our great grandfathers did as an excuse to filch us out of money all the time. Turnabout is fair play.

why are americans like this? a single cent of profit less for their beloved company overlords makes them go berserk

>>716412048 (OP)
I have SKG fatigue

>>716412048 (OP)
>your great grandfather made a game 100 years ago so now you'll be fined every day the servers aren't up even though computers don't exist anymore
In a just world this would be true and punishable by public flogging

>>716412460
I have anti-SKG fatigue
Not really, actually thank you for keep posting about it and posting in threads about it. It really helps getting more eyeballs on it.

>>716412048 (OP)
>buy genesis game
>100 years later
>still works
>buy modern game
>devs just decided to "end support"
>have useless piece of plastic
and that's without mentioning that I can just dump the ROM and keep playing it or store it somewhere else

if they don't want to upkeep their games forever then don't sell games that have an expiration date on them

sign the initiative please

>>716412880
nah, that's boring

>>716412048 (OP)
>you don't get it, you MUST engage with my retardation or else that means I'm right

Pirate fagware? is that you? Your dad worked on wow but he didnt make it and you will never have kids so your hypothetical isnt even valid.

>>716412048 (OP)
We literally just want server browsers to come back. That's it. At this point, this must just be rage bait, but enjoy the bump none the less.

>>716412048 (OP)
Sounds based, where do I sign?

>>716413040
>rage bait
Back in my day they called it “trolling”

>>716412189
the campaign is about killing indies.

>>716412048 (OP)
Games are a miserable little piles of files.
Ideally all files you need to play the game are given to you during the download, but publishers are just giving you some of the files and keeping some in a server they will shutdown.
Just give all the files.

>>716413040
>Fortnite should have a server browser, so that I can get hosted by a pajeet in indie who has full control of the server and cheats

>>716412048 (OP)
>Tranny "Thor" still can't read properly
LMAO

>>716412048 (OP)
>still trying to distribute false information
You're a faggot and you deserve to die.

>>716412708
>rent digital game
>Valve decides that your hardware is too old
>you get locked out of your purchase

this is fine for the balded freak. weird, it's actually killing tons of games including hardware.

>>716413272
>implying indians would have their own servers

>>716412435
It's a country without any actual culture, so they attach themselves to corporations.

>tech illiterate people trying to debate on a subject that does not involve them
if you do not understand the subject nor do you understand how video games work, do tell me why you care about it

>>716413272
>Fortnite should have a server browser, so that I can host my own server and ban cheating pajeets, hues and ruskies
Sounds reasonable to me.

>>716413183
good, most of them don't deserve to live

>>716413272
Yes, and you will easily recognize it by being a [INDIA SUPERPOWER 2030] DM botcheatdeath2000 (300ms ping).

Exactly how it happens with not very popular games like minecraft.

>>716412386
i was thinking pajeet, but they're lazy so i doubt they have enough willpower or intelligence to make a 1 hour video. a retard however has more than enough intelligence to make a 1 hour video.

>>716412048 (OP)
[Breaking news]
Polish man found guilty of abducting seven women into a rickshaw and then sexually assaulting them. When confronted by the police, he initiated a chase in which he managed to shake the authorities, only to later be found dead with three gunshots to the back of the head. Upon forensic examination, it was determined that the cause of death was suicide

>>716413402
truth

>>716413402
Isn’t Ubisoft French?

>>716413272
Yes.

>>716412386
Why can't it be both?

>>716413183
heil ross
total indien death

yes
imagine being part of a live service rentseeker dynasty

>>716413272
Why are you seeing pajeet servers at the top of the list? Most server browsers sort by lowest ping first. Anything to say for yourself, Ranjesh?

So Steam is supposed to be available to all platforms it ever was and if Gabe refuses, he will have to pay 5 trillion per day to the EU?
Sounds good.

>>716414154
Steam is one dll away from completely freeing 99% of it's games.
People already made it even.
One update and steam works forever with no servers.

initiative passed and now every publisher will have to keep games up indefinately. a thousand years of darkness have been promised and gamers intend to colect

>>716412048 (OP)
You didn’t even mention the the worst part about SKG… the mandatory daily penis inspection

>>716414326
So let's force Gabe to remove the useless DRM then.
Hello EU?

>>716412048 (OP)
>t.

>>716413413
I want my free gamez nigga, I paid 1 euro for a key motherfucker. I do not care if the game is now 20 years old, I am right to play it nigga, fuck you bitch ass motherfucker pajeet corpo bitch

Shiiet.

>your great grandfather made a game 100 years ago so now you'll be fined every day the servers aren't up even though computers don't exist anymore
That's right, so better maintain those hard drives

>>716413272
Literal Nigger IQ, best to just kill yourself

I also love e-celebs, I'm watching Layla now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eZbgkS0h7k

>As more and more games are being made, more and more servers will be required to run them forever
>Eventually the entire planet is one big server farm
Stop Killing Games? Maybe think about Stop Killing the EARTH.

>>716412048 (OP)
This whole campaign is a media coverup for the great hentai purge that is performed right now.

>>716412048 (OP)
The great great grandfather who made unreal, quake, cs 1.6 etc. doesn't give a fuck because he let the people make their own dedicated servers
The great grandfather Capcom released a single player version of their mobile Mega Man Gatcha game as well, instead of just killing it.

>>716412386

>>716414616
HEY KIDS, IT'S ME YOUR PAL ROSS MOSSMAN
IGNORE THE FACT THAT I STOPPED MAKING MY USUAL CONTENT TO DO SKG WHICH IS WAY MORE RENTABLE TO ME AS MY DONATIONS INCREASED TENFOLD AND ALL I HAVE TO DO IS A SERIES OF DISCORD CALLS.

WE ARE SURE ON TRACK TO SAVE VIDEOGAMES AND IT ONLY TAKING US 1 YEAR AND ECELEB DRAMA AT POINT WHERE NOTHING WAS HAPPENING TO ALMOST KINDA REACH OUR GOAL TO COLLECT ENOUGH SIGNATURES TO BEG THE EU TO "STOP KILLAN GAAAEEEMES" © 2024

REMEMBER IF ANYONE DOUBTS YOUR GLORIOUS LEADER BULLY THEM, BULLY THEM TO DEATH. CRUSH THEM, DESTROY MY OPPOSITION, CURB STOMP THE NON-BELIEVERS.
ANONE TELLING YOU I AM REACHING, LOST THE PLOT, OR THAT I AM IGNORANT ON HOW LAWS AND GAMES WORK HAS TO DIE.
YOU DON'T WANT TO END LIKE THOR KEKLORD OVER THERE? I AM HEADING TO MY BASEMENT WHERE MY FOLLOWERS HAVE HIM TIED UP TO A RACK, I AM GOING TO SKIN HIM IN THE NAME OF THE GAME LORD.

ALSO FREEMAN'S MIND EPISODE WHATEVER COMING OUT NEVER.

>>716413402
More culture than your country, which is just American Culture plus some post WW2 Liberal Order unearned moral self-righteousness.

>>716414556
It's not useless useless, the dll also offers all the advantages of steam like their servers and all that.
You can even code your game to keep running if the DLL is not detected.

>>716414861
Reminder we have the technology but not the willpower to fix any and all pollution issues because the left are fixated on gender politics and the right is retarded.

Zoomers are petty as fuck and care for the dumbest shit like SKG which will backfire.

>>716415121
But I don't want their servers.
I just want to play games without any slop.
So why doesn't Valve deliver that?
Are they anti-gaming?

>>716415085
>REMEMBER IF ANYONE DOUBTS YOUR GLORIOUS LEADER BULLY THEM, BULLY THEM TO DEATH. CRUSH THEM, DESTROY MY OPPOSITION, CURB STOMP THE NON-BELIEVERS.
ANONE TELLING YOU I AM REACHING, LOST THE PLOT, OR THAT I AM IGNORANT ON HOW LAWS AND GAMES WORK HAS TO DIE.
YOU DON'T WANT TO END LIKE THOR KEKLORD OVER THERE? I AM HEADING TO MY BASEMENT WHERE MY FOLLOWERS HAVE HIM TIED UP TO A RACK, I AM GOING TO SKIN HIM IN THE NAME OF THE GAME LORD.


amazing aura.

>>716413402
>so they attach themselves to corporations.
This faggot is saying that unironically when the EU is removing the rights of individuals and Britbong is currently enforcing Orwellian policies.

But hey, stick it to the man, those fucking toy companies have to pay!
Eceleb cocksucker.

>>716412048 (OP)
not what the initiative says though, this is a straw man

>>716412048 (OP)
Honestly, I hope you're getting paid to make posts like this.
I would hate to think that there are faggots out there that will straight up lie and spread false information in defense of multibillion dollar corporations for free.

tl;dr add a solo mode and/or a LAN/P2P mode. That's it.

>>716415505
>Fortnite adds a 1 hour campaign
>EU: this is fine now

>>716415112
Oh yeah, you have just as much education as you have a culture.

>>716415389
Nice projections you've got going there, buddy.

>>716412386
>Pajeet or retard. Call it.
You
Are
Brown

>>716415643
It's better then the current situation

But why would fortnite even do that instead of merely adding LAN connections as an option?

>>716412386
What's the difference

i don't understand how anybody can be comfortable speaking on something that clearly illustrates its purpose in less than five paragraphs and which even google in its neutered modern form brings up with no subterfuge, redirection or misinformation pretty much instantly

>>716416158
>it's better
>to have a game ruined by cheaters and hackers and get hacked
>just add a LAN option
>just
So you are fine with killing online games then?

>>716412386
Pure-bred, 56% white, American retard.

>>716413272
Make your own server retard

>>716412048 (OP)
Why does moss feel entitled to money from my grandchildren?

Fuck this guy!

>>716413272
>Only Jeets make servers
And this is why you are a eternal retard.

>>716416748
The mold is eternal.

>>716413402
yep, it's a truthnuke

Why do shills bring up indie games as though there are any that use always online servers?

>>716414843
Layla is done, I'm watching Luna now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8Up0NDH2R0

>>716413402
America. Home...

>>716417041
There are some but they are such a minority that's it's obviously a shill tactic to bring it up.

>>716416664
okay, will just rent amazon cloud server for 10k

>>716415085
>DONATIONS INCREASED TENFOLD
Yeah funny thing about not declaring that.......

>>716415643
It's kinda funny how everyone just forgot that Fornite has a long ass coop campaign because the battle royale mode is so popular
Though of course it's made by Epic jews so even the single player campaign require an online connection

>>716412048 (OP)
>once a hero
>now a villain

>>716415085
>>716417674
Least obvious samefag, that will now post an inspect elemented screenshot as "proof".

>>716413356
>Valve decides that your hardware is too old
>you get locked out of your purchase
But this doesn't happen.

>>716413356
I wonder what stopped them from forking the final build before it lost compatibility with holder systems to prevent this? Even if it was reduced to the bare minimum and had a queue time.

>>716417674
Ross wouldn't be the face of SKG if they were spending that kind of money, they’d hire some spineless pretty boy with a decent voice to spin doctor not a guy with a chest mane and sounds like he’s screaming into his mic on normal sentences

>>716418375
Nothing but why waste money on that when goys will keep using it anyway

>>716412386
>retard or retard call it

Anyone else sorta baffled by the hateful response this has gotten? I remember when City of Heroes went down and people were happily playing on private servers after the fact. Is it really that hard for modern games to put in place a function like that? Why doesn't Ross use strict examples such as this?

Don't design games with a ticking clock in order to exploit players and take away value they paid for.

>>716418638
If Ross complied a list of games that function online without official servers he’d probably have 20 years of games to shift through and the video would be 2 hours long

>>716418638
not really, the advocates for it, especially on 4chan are very obnoxious and cult like where you're not allowed to question anything or they start sperging and calling you jeet bootlickers or whatever, also the quite obnoxious and hostile statements like "this will kill live service games! great!" there are millions of people who enjoy live service games, why antagonise them by saying you hate them and want to shut their games down? no shit you'll get hateful responses for hateful behavior

>>716418638
He did use it as an example with many other games. He just used the Crew as his primary example because it was recent and because Ubisoft was begging for it.
He made a really massive list of unplayable games to serve as evidence here https://stopkillinggames.wiki.gg/wiki/Dead_game_list

>>716413183
suffah indies

>>716412048 (OP)
>retard doesn't even know what it is about
must be a jeet

>>716418638
because few people actually stand to gain from this.
most players of live service games don't care whether they'll shut down. if they stop being popular they'll just move on to the next one anyway.
gamers who don't like live service games and miss the dedicated server era probably wouldn't play those games to begin with hence no wish to preserve them.
there are only a few reasons for an individual to support this:
>you want to stick it to the industry
>you believe this will set a precedent to regulate away other practices
>you think all video games are art worth preserving
>you're part of a tiny minority of people who both enjoys modern live service slop and likes replaying old games
either way the nasty reception of the first group comes from infringing on their territory asking for changes they don't care about, and the second group because it makes them look bad.

>>716412386
I say it's a disingenuous shill

Thor debunked this

>>716418638
You've got the mazed shills, the ironic contrarians, the bored trolls, the ignorant who don't bother reading and the genuine paid corporate sockpuppets. Plenty of fodder to support any anti stance no matter how dumb.

>>716412048 (OP)
That's not how self-hosting works, you bird brain.

>>716418898
because live service games are a cancer and deserve to die, that also extends to their enablers

>>716419803
>most players of live service games don't care whether they'll shut down.
A MILLION AND A HALF EUROPEAN SIGNATURES FUCKING DISAGREE

>>716417106
Luna is done too, I guess a lot of people are finishing their streams now, since it is like 2 am, King Hayama will probably be on the prowl for a while though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdwyHWLbMZc

>>716419803
>akshually people don't care about owning what they bought
good morning sir

>>716412048 (OP)
Nintendo must reactivate the Satellaview Service games even if the Satellite doesn't exist anymore.

How is it possible that all these months later retards like OP admit that they never read the FAQ?

>>716413272
i could just find a server that doesn't fit any of those descriptors, zoomer

>>716420019
wow I wonder you're getting hateful responses

>>716412048 (OP)
good morning saar. 2000 rupees have been deposited into your account saar

>windows 14 introduces obscure bug that breaks my hand coded game engine for my indie title that I released a decade ago
>lost the source code after the great solar flare of 2029 fried all non-shielded hot storage
>Black bagged by UN "peacekeepers" operating under the authority of EU and extradited to Europe
>sentenced to the Hague for "killing" my game

>>716413183
lmao a roachking subject

>>716412386
synonyms

>>716420198
>muh indies
Lmao.

>>716420170
This gets hateful responses because it's just what /v/ truly loves the most
>karens asking for more government control over games
>ecelebs
>"those crowds" obsessed with live service games
Truly only a shill could dislike any combination of these things, let alone all of them together. If you don't agree with our moralism then you're EVIL!

>>716418973
Ah great thanks for the info. I don't like my post, just rhetorical gay questions, so thanks for replying with something worthwhile.
>>716419803
You're gay.

>>716420554
yeah
>omg how could anyone hate us
>btw I fucking hate you and want you to die and for games to die and look at what these celebs posted on youtube
ah gee, why do they get hate I don't get it, truly a mystery

>>716420198
What a story, now do a food analogy

>>716412312
that's...not....asmongold.......

>>716412048 (OP)
Support for a minimum of 10 years should be law. That way these piece of shit companies stop shitting out garbage to fail

>>716412048 (OP)
>your great grandfather made a game 100 years ago so now you'll be fined every day the servers aren't up even though computers don't exist anymore
What is this? Oh it's the first Cartoon ever made from 1908. All the people involved in it's creation are long dead, but it still exists. Imagine that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swh448fLd1g

>>716420554
How does that corpo dick taste?

>>716420042
>she thinks all 1.5m votes are legit
lmao

>>716421050
You need to be a EU citizen with valid documents and can only vote once. So yes.

>>716412048 (OP)
Your father shouldve read the EUla before publishing in EU :^). He agreed to do so and now you have to work yeah

>>716421123
You're in for a shock then.

you are brown btw

>>716421174
Uh huh...

>>716419803
>>716421174
the VP of the EU parliament signed it himself

>>716421201
You can tell the Browns because the concept of media conservation is a foreign ideal to them. Of conserving anything is foreign and alien.
I have a book that is 400 years old a copy of John Milton's Paradise Lost, but somehow the idea of preserving games from being destroyed over a span of a couple of decades is preposterous.
We're not saying that it's the publisher and game dev who needs to preserve the games, simply leave them in a playable state and allow those who bought the games to preserve them if they so wish, that's it.

>>716421506
one of 14 VPs

>>716421651
>simply leave them in a playable state
this is ok
>and allow those who bought the games to preserve them if they so wish
lmao you are brown
you want publishers to walk away from profits because you're a dumb brown
lmao

>>716412048 (OP)
The solution is
>devs: make an offline mode, this isn't fucking difficult
>players: don't play alwaya online service crap to begin with.
But god forbid anyone have any self restraint whatsoever.

>>716417917
Not samefag but you are nutty dude.

>>716421651
strange how those things were preserved without a government forcing publishers to deliver magically eternally pristine copies of books for all eternity

>>716412048 (OP)
people are clamoring for this shit are retarded

>>716412386
Sir?

>>716416412
yea games are incredible secure now oh wait
https://x.com/AlbralelieVT/status/1769526613236957537
P2P doesn't cause this is the point.
Also, yes "just add LAN". Change it so that it points to a local server instead of yours. That simple

>>716421864
It's not strange at all, it's due to the difference in technology and how the media itself exists which is not physical but digital.
It's a very simple concept something which even a child of ten can grasp the nuance, are you saying your intellect is lower than that of a ten year old?

>>716413183
>oh no sorry I have to take down the servers I ran out of money
>okay give us the ability to host our own servers
>umm no I can't do that because uhhh...

>absolutely braindead retarded bait
>100 replies and counting
why is /v/ like this?

>>716421785
Why would I as a customer care what is in the publishers interest when they do not care what is in the my that is the customers interest?
How is it in my interest as a customer to have the product that I bought be destroyed arbitrarily?

>>716412386
/v/ user

>>716422039
P2P games are plagued with hackers and arbitrary code exploits, what a silly argument. I don't even understand what point you're trying to make.

>>716422039
I like how you omittied that it was only possible because of a vulnerability MS has been aware of for like a decade but refused to fix. Very organic, good sir.

based

>>716418475
you mean EU doesn't want to pretend it's "legit" and are too stupid to hire a balding incel?

>>716412312
thats asmonmold

>>716418375
they are too lazy and don't give a fuck about gamers and games.

>>716422039
>hacker has full control and the full binary of the server
>this is not making things worse

>>716412048 (OP)
He's going to succeed.

You'll find that a guy with the backing of a billion dollar industry will always win against 1.4 million "righteous" poorfags. It's how the world works. Now buy the $300 complete experience edition, bitch.

>>716412048 (OP)
Good. Eff grandad

>>716412312
As man? Gold.

>>716422661
If there is one (1) institution in the world that cares about consumer protection - it's the EU. Billions of dollars didn't matter when they were enforcing regulations on Apple and Google.

>>716422483
yeah
yeah
uh oh
it's common sense
yes
that's right
my mother scammed insurance and banks
yes
vaccines work duh

>>716422303
The point was that non-P2P games can be just vulnerable. That services connected to the game and not the protocol caused those exploits.
>>716422319
That was the point. That P2P doesn't immediately mean that your game can be easily hacked. In Apex's case, the cause was likely the source engine. In WWII's case, it was MS's service
In both cases, these were KNOWN vulns that companies sat on and likely relied purely on obscurity instead of patching them. In other words, the current state of hacking is tied more to the engines and services rather than the network protocol. P2P = more hackers is a fallacy.
>>716422605
>hacker has full control and the full binary of the server
Why are you connecting to a hacker's server?

>>716422952
>Why are you connecting to a hacker's server?
because I connected to the server in your server list with the lowest ping.
afterwards I sue you for 100k via the EU.

>>716422003
Jeet or retard? You need to call it. I can't call it for you it wouldnt be fair

>>716420769
>What a story, now do a food analogy

>I run a restaurant making food from the meat of a certain animal
>50 years later the animal is extinct.
>Get thrown in jail for removing it from the menu.

>>716422952
>P2P = more hackers is a fallacy
that's full on retarded claim.

there is a thing called host advantage. the hacker has full control of the server, gets all IPs of every client and can delay packages and do other fuckery.
only a moron would claim that P2P or dedicated server at some loser user wouldn't be a juge problem.

why was the multiplayer of PS3 so shit?
because it was P2P garbage.

>play fortnite
>sorry, hosting player left
>migrating
>migration failed
>get booted out
wow brilliant retard

>>716423258
eu would never allow that, you are supposed to eat the bugs.

>>716420769
Should the CEO of Denny's be jailed for no longer serving the Hobbit menu, despite the fact that I ordered a Bilbo's Breakfast Feast 15 years ago?

>>716412386
porque no los dos.

>>716423104
As the dev, I don't own the server list. I don't have anything running other than a site to provide the binaries.
If you've connected to a rogue IP and let it send you packets of info to be ran in some software that has a critical vulnerability, that's on you.

>>716423493
you pointed people to get hacked, therefore you are responsible for terrorism.
prison time naow

>>716423467
No because that's a service and not a product.

>>716423301
And that’s worse than not being able to play at all? Retarded nigger.

>>716423258
I entered an agreement with the restaurant to get this meat for a one time charge. This agreement had no expiration. The animal can't go extinct either because it's nearly ephemeral; it's contents can be replicated indefinitely.
>>716423467
If I entered an agreement to receive the hobbit meal as many and long as I want and the ability to create that meal requires no additional resources to create, yes.
>>716423562
Yea I do recall that lawsuit where someone in 2025 used Windows 95, connected to the internet, and had Bonsai Buddy installed with a 0-click vuln. Absolutely true and that software should have been patched and supported indefinitely

>>716419803
Everything this anon said was truthful
This really only helps a tiny tiny minority nut fucks over everyone else

>>716423467
>food analogy

>>716423301
>there is a thing called host advantage.
I am aware how P2P works.
>the hacker has full control of the server, gets all IPs of every client and can delay packages and do other fuckery.
The hacker only has as much control as the software provides them
>why was the multiplayer of PS3 so shit?
Anecdotal and ps3 had no games
>Host leaving a server
That's not hacking. That's just an inconvenience

These threads get more and more retarded every day.

>>716412048 (OP)
1: that's not how it works
2: they would deserve it

>>716412708
This, so much this

>>716419803
>no no no no you see, after over a decade of getting fucked by always online shit people definitely don't want to own their games!
Desperate.

>>716424048
>The hacker only has as much control as the software provides them
Wrong
Hackers can inject new shit
That's why keeping servers updated and patched costs a fortune

>>716423925
How does forcing Ubisoft to put an expiration date on their shitty live service games nut fucking everyone?

>>716423725
>game unplayable
>hurrrr at least I can get fucked over by a cheater

>>716424207
Someone has to pay for all the extra work unisoft has to do
That someone will be us

Or game devs look at these new rules and go nah fuck europe. So the average eu gamer loses out because of a tiny minority

>>716423845
>things that never happened for $100, Alex
>connected to the internet
only a moron would hook anything directly into public internet
also fun fact: it doesn't work, because retarded virus writers do not support Windows 95, lmao, you are safer with w95 than with slop 11 or 12

>>716424317
Printing or typing “This game will no longer be accessible after X date” is extra work for who?

>>716424048
>I am aware how P2P works.
you obviously aren't.
>the hacker only has full control over the software, but that's highly limited becuase of the software
meds

>>716413806
and? everyone in france hate ubisoft. their games are putrid shit and the guillemot brothers are absolute retards

>>716412386
What??

>>716424405
>Printing or typing “This game will no longer be accessible after X date” is extra work for who?
That wont be enough for skg

>>716424317
Yeah, just like how the average european consumer can't buy any software because it's legal to resell used software licences. Or how Nintendo avoids europe because they can't nuke european switches for pirating super mario.

>dev shuts down game
>patches game so server browser exists and releases server code
>join a hosted match a few months later
>get ransomwared because hacker found vulnerability in code or created one
Can I sue the dev?

>>716422408
Yes

>>716424604
It’s literally one of their proposed solutions

>>716415085

>>716424193
>Hackers can inject new shit
Oh it's just that easy, hmm? Tell me what is this "new shit"? Couldn't my machine detect "new shit" being sent?
>That's why keeping servers updated and patched costs a fortune
What servers? I thought the clients were the servers in your dogshit understanding of multiplayer architecture?
The answer is, they can't "just inject new shit". Yes, they have some means of sending you information but that doesn't mean:
- the other clients can't validate it
- a vuln exists on clients that the host could exploit
- the packets sent aren't closely vetted by other systems
Further, maintenance costs are unrelated to this. Central servers for games like MMOs are notoriously more expensive to run and have required massive hardware to scale vertically or complex data management to scale horizontally. It's why you see so few indie MMOs but hundreds of small team based shooters.

>>716412048 (OP)
>>716413183
you can tell zoomies dominate this board because running your own servers even after devs gave up on the games, was actually default state of videogames.This is probably bait but there are shitters who unironically grew up with Steam and live service garbage.

Grim

>>716424897
>Couldn't my machine detect "new shit" being sent?
>>That's why keepin
No
No it couldn't that's the whole point of an rce

>>716418638
>Anyone else sorta baffled by the hateful response this has gotten?
Contrarians. It's always contrarians. This site is plagued by them, their whole life is about opposing the current thing because they're desperate to prove they're special.
When something happens and a consensus arises on what side to take, they'll do the opposite for no other reason than being little contrarian shits

>>716424317
I wonder if game companies really are going to use this as an excuse to raise prices.

>>716424954
People aren't joking when they say live service is the future anon

>>716412189
>the only consequences of our actions are those we intend
wow it's almost like you are an underage retard with no understanding of reality or the human condition.

>>716424738
>Anon gets malwared
>news sites pick up on it
>UBISOFT GAME CONTAINS MALWARE
>FRANCHISE CONTAINS REMOTE CODE EXPLOIT
>repeat till mass hysteria and everyone thinks all ubisoft titles have an rce
I am fairly sure ubisoft doesn't want this scenario to happen. Releasing games in europe is a death sentence

>>716422798
Small correction, it's less about protecting consumers and more about actively spiting american megacorps. Those two just happen to align much of the time because said megacorps are comically evil.

>>716424974
you are retarded. and dangerous.

>>716412048 (OP)
they specifically state that the game company is not liable to host the servers themselves, but that the fan community can do it out of their own pocket for all they care. they just have to keep the game alive is all.

>Same what if and hypotheticals repeated ad infinitum in every SKG thread despite several anons giving them a response over and over again
This is tiresome. At this point your mother should be hanged for you being an illiterate nigger

>>716412048 (OP)
>I don't know what SKG is asking for

We can tell.

>>716425278
>>716424738
>>716425139

>>716425239
i'm not talking about the real life, you are right to and should oppose things in the real world. i'm talking about the little contrarians shitheads who plague this site. don't pretend you don't know what I'm talking about

>>716424409
>meds
Oh ok. Sure. Tell me, is SSM Ultimate unplayable with hackers? How about For Honor or Dark Souls? GTA Online has its fair share of hackers, feel free to use that one and show me how P2P was the sole cause of that.
The point is, you can't. While you might technically have an advantage, the current state of the market shows that it's completely viable to have a P2P that isn't rendered unplayable by hackers.
>>716424320
>That never happened
Sorry how's Windows 2000 then: https://youtu.be/Mmp-P24QJjQ?feature=shared&t=209
>only a moron would hook anything directly into public internet
Says the guy on the public internet, right now.
>it doesn't work, because retarded virus writers do not support Windows 95
Security by obscurity is not an excuse. Even still, Microsoft would not be responsible if you computer was infected by connecting to the internet. Based on "only a moron would hook anything directly into public internet" it seems you agree and have retreated from your argument.
Good try tho, shill

>>716425659
>the current state of the market shows that it's completely viable to have a P2P that isn't rendered unplayable by hackers.
Because those servers get security patches

>>716425425
Digital ownership is a very real thing

>>716412386
It's obviously a babel media pajeet with a list of fake talking points.

>>716424971
>No
Oh ok yea I think most modern software just accepts buffer overflows from services because they should just be "trusted". Yea right ok retard.
>That's the whole point of an RCE
Are you seriously implying that when I play a P2P game, I am giving the host FULL access to my machine to run whatever code they want?

>>716413183
How so, rajesh?

>>716425835
>I am giving the host FULL access to my machine to run whatever code they want?
No but your client does and your client interacts with the host
Rces have happened in the past from p2p servers
The main problem isn't current active games. Its when they are given out and left abandoned for years for the hackers to pull apart and find the exploits

>>716425835
Dark Souls 1 didn’t have multiplayer for the longest time because of something like that

>>716425774
>Because those servers get security patches
As does every other game? A security patch implies there is a vulnerability.
Where is your source that all P2P are prohibitively more expensive than a centralized server due to "security patching" alone? Where's your claim that P2P games require more security patches to stay stable?
To add to this, the most recent stories for major hacking events in gaming both came from games with dedicated servers. See CoD WWII, TF2, and Apex

>>716425659
>Dark Souls
works fine on PS3 without any hacker shit
>P2P doesn't hurt anyone
>except host gets all IP addresses of everyone involved

>>716426076
>Where is your source that all P2P are prohibitively more expensive than a centralized server due to "security patching" alone
I never said that
I said all multiplayer games are expensive

>>716425659
>I "connected it to the internet"
you don't, you actually expose it to the internet without any firewall or NAT
If you aren't a retard, LITERALLY nothing happens
stop spreading fake news

>>716412048 (OP)
How retarded do you have to be to make up these radical hypotheticals to try and debase the campaign?

>>716425835
>Are you seriously implying that when I play a P2P game, I am giving the host FULL access to my machine to run whatever code they want?
YES
Connecting to random servers has resulted in people being hacked in the past

>>716426076
>TF2
has open dedidacted slop servers, which everyone can reverse engineer and check for vuls
your point -> gone

>>716426329
Didn't tf2 have a big thing for a while where servers would download malware through sprays or plugins or some shit? Or was that cs? I vaguely remember something like that

>>716412048 (OP)
The problem here is that IP laws need to be repealed entirely. SKG has identified a real problem, but has chosen the wrong solution.

>>716426464
that happens when you give hackers literally everything

>>716416331
They get paid to do so.

>>716426006
>No but your client does and your client interacts with the host
No it doesn't. Go ahead and try that right now with WarFrame. Send me `cat /etc/passwd` in a packet, pipe it to telnet, and tell me if you've pwnd me.
>Rces have happened in the past from p2p servers
And they've happened on dedicated servers too. Vulns are vulns. They're critical bugs that require someone to PATCH them out because someone found a way to buffer overflow or whatever (see: bypass measures taken by developers to protect clients).
>Its when they are given out and left abandoned for years for the hackers to pull apart and find the exploits
Like TF2 which was then fixed by the community yea? You know people can find vulns to patch them too, right?
>>716426119
Yea everyone that has ever connected to GTA Online has been irrevocably hacked and DDoSed into oblivion.
>>716426210
>I said all multiplayer games are expensive
Then this is irrelevant to the discussion as it applies to all games regardless of protocol used

>>716412048 (OP)
>Grrrr, I hate the government, they want to enslave us and censor everything
>Pwease daddy government, make sure shitty ubisoft games can be played forever, I'm sure you wont abuse power this time!
lmao

>>716426464
no
it had a rumor that people were spreading CP through sprays, which was not only fake, it was spread by a fearmongering tranny who admitted to sending nudes to a minor on discord, which he tried to justify as "body positivity shit". because of this fake rumor, Valve decided to disable sprays on their servers
he also tried to sneak a malware on a Persona HUD mod he made for TF2

>>716412386
I noticed that you commie lefties, who loved diversity, are now going around calling people pajeets as your only argument against somebody. You lost.

>>716426215
>you don't, you actually expose it to the internet without any firewall or NAT
Oh ok so MS would compensate me or be liable if someone found away my over 2 decade old firewall?
You're losing the plot here over semantics here, bub. Remember, your claim was that developers would be responsible if I connected my machine to a compromised server after the game was killed

>>716426790
trvth nvke

>>716426790
Yeah just let the corporations rape you brother fuck big government they have never ever ever forever never had a good regulation.

>>716412048 (OP)
Why do they call it oven when you of in the cold food and of out the hot food

>As we rise again from the ruins of our servers
>They will know, Vidya belongs to the vidyagamers

>>716426914
>they have never ever ever forever never had a good regulation.
considering this entire problem is due to government regulation, yeah this is correct

>>716426914
By corporations you only mean Ubisoft and Microsoft? Who are making shitty games anyway and are failing game studios precisely because nobody is buying their games? Proving that natural selection does indeed work in the marketplace and you don't need to ask the government who can't be trusted for help, Those corporations?

>>716427030
Which government regulation is forcing companies like Ubisoft to have live service single player games?

>>716427148
>live service single player games
I'm referring to what SKG is about. Games like what you're describing are not a part of this discussion. If you don't like those games, don't play them. Very simple.

>>716427148
>If you work here and add DEI shit in your media, we, the government, will give you money from the tax payers!
lol
lmao

>>716413183
Only indies that make games as a service trash and that's a VERY good thing.

>>716427126
Yes just ignore the huge compiled list of old games that you can no longer play or access it's only two corporations brother stop complaining just let the cock enter your ass.

>>716413183
Any indie that tries to make always online shit will fail. SKG has nothing to do with it.

>>716426329
>which everyone can reverse engineer and check for vuls
Keyword: "everyone". Including people that want to play the game without hackers. TF2 managed to do this by introducing community servers that solve problems Valve hasn't
your point -> gone

>>716427246
>all games switch to this system in the next decade
>just quit playing videogames bro
Kek

>>716427246
SKG started because of a live service single player game dummy. Now which government regulation are you talking about?

>>716427126
>goverment bad
Just say you're American. Here the goverment makes sure that food doesn't have Super Cancer in it, that medicine doesn't give people AIDS, that used software can be freely resold and that Nintendo can't nuke your console for downloading Super Mario. Stop simping for corpos.

>>716427268
Ah yes, Football 2019, everyone's favorite game.... oh no. Yeah it sucks but you people bitch about big bad politicians and now you are begging them for help.

>>716427501
>America!
rent fucking free. I'm not even American. No fucking wonder you EU retards are so fucked between being arrested for mean tweets and getting attacked by migrant gangs.

>>716427432
Yes? If the market decides that's viable, then it's viable. Fortunately, the market is currently deciding that this isn't viable. Games like what you're describing are failing en masse.
>>716427458
If it's a single player game that required an internet connection and got shut down afterwards, then sure. In that case, IP laws are to blame. Without IP laws, all of these old games could easily be brought back online.

>>716427519
You know you can bitch about politicians and still want the government to work for the people right? These aren't mutually exclusive ideas.

>>716412121
fpbp
>>716412048 (OP)
b-b-b-based! total corpo death

>>716427519
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1at1k7qIo5dgPp6K1aCrYIyAgNOjY-IhF
>you people bitch about big bad politicians and now you are begging them for help
yea believe it or not, most don't believe in dissolving the government in its entirety and would like to use democratic systems to intact change against massive corporations with anti consumer behaviors. you might also find it hard to believe that by participating in the system doesn't mean you automatically agree with everything they do

>people actually want the government to regulate ENTERTAINMENT
you people deserve everything that is coming to you

>>716427623
IP laws are not to blame, no one loses their IP for releasing dedicated software tools or decoupling the game from an online authentication.

>>716412048 (OP)
I think humanity will have better things to worry about in this apocalyptic scenario

>>716427783
Nah just regulate Jews and their schemes.
Every entertainment industry is 90% Jews anyway so why do you give a shit?

>>716427810
Yes they are. The reason that popular old games aren't brought back online is because the companies that hold the IP rights won't allow it to happen (if they're aware of it). If there were no IP laws (or current ones were at least altered) then this entire problem would go away.

>>716427664
>>716427740
>Proving my point correctly
>Ignoring that your goal is already being achieved without big gov naturally through time
I think we are in fact done here now.

>>716427897
Popular old games don't need to be "brought back online" because they already have an online component users can self-host. You have no idea what you're talking about.

>>716427783
Yes.

>>716427960
You don't know what SKG is about.

are you guys getting paid for the misinfo campaign or it's simply trolling? i want to get paid for shitposting

>>716427623
>the market decides
No, the consumer should decide. Supply should meet demand, not the other way around. Right now "the market" is owned by megacorporations that manufacture both supply and consent by abusing fiat currencies and investment market. The idea of a "free market" is a myth, disavowed by its own creator.

>>716418037
i've got a big red 0 DAYS UNTIL STEAM STOPS WORKING on my client right now. and any day now it'll actually be true, then what?

>>716428093
>gobbledegook
seethe commie

>hear about problem
>don't think it through
>immediately come to bad conclusion
>point out problems with your own bad conclusion
>victory achieved

>>716427623
Making games playable after they’re no longer supported is different than letting people develop their own take on an IP.

>>716428004
It's about disallowing companies from treating goods as services that they can remotely terminate.

>>716427783
Remember, the same people bitching about master card taking away their troon furry gooner games cheered it on when games were being taken away for not being diverse enough.

These lefty communists are utterly schizophrenic and insane. They have to worship the government because its their ultimate moral good, but when said government tramples on things they like, now its evil because they hold things they like as being the ultimate good more so over the government. So they are stuck in this psychotic loop of loving the government only to hate it then go back to loving it when a different situation arises.

>>716427924
ESL-kun the fuck are you talking about?
>Proving my point correctly
What point?
>Ignoring that your goal is already being achieved without big gov naturally through time
What goal? Not SKG's. There are games that we can no longer play despite paying for it.

>>716428189
Which is a problem due to IP.
>>716428180
No it's not. They're derived from the same source.

>>716427924
Except it isn't? Which is the whole point of the campaign. The invisible hand of the free market has always been a meme.

>>716412708
Disc rot will kill any Genesis game not kept in a vacuum after 100 years.

>>716428204
>Playing stupid
Like I said, we are done now because you are just moving onto disingenuous tactics.

>>716428236
No, they could do it even in the absence of IP laws. This is predicated upon the "goods as a service" problem, not a "copyright" problem.

>>716418037
people who bought their games on XP don't have access to them anymore

>>716428273
>The invisible hand of the free market has always been a meme.
Imagine outing yourself as a communist like that.

>>716428236
You should start a Kill All Intellectual Property movement then. For now this is about video games that have planned obsolescence.

>>716428279
Disc rot? On a cartridge?

>>716428310
>they could do it even in the absence of IP laws
nope

>>716412048 (OP)
This is retarded. The best possible outcome of this whole thing is that games will be sold as services instead of products. Possibly changing to a subscription only model.

>>716413272
>don't join pajeetnigger server, go somewhere else
>OR join pajeetnigger server with VPN and rape him to death with or without cheats until he shuts it down
you have options

>>716427783
Yes, we do in fact corporations to get slapped.

>>716428279
>Disc rot
A meme.

>>716428331
Why not? I can dualboot XP easily or just VM it.

>>716428201
>reddit
>>716428236
IP didn't stop City of Heroes from being brought back by fans. Why would that stop developers?
>>716428287
>has no more arguments
I accept your concession

>>716428201
Admitting that you use reddit really isn't how you win arguments here.

>>716428463
>IP didn't stop City of Heroes from being brought back by fans
The holder of the IP choosing not to exercise their legal authority to shut something down is not a valid argument. If they wanted it gone, it would be gone.

>>716428396
And that's a good thing

>>716412048 (OP)
jason bots straw crazier and crazier boogymen every day

>>716428340
You realize if corporations weren't regulated we'd just have a bunch of monopolies running around right? America has intervened against corporate entities for almost a hundred years now.

>>716428396
the vast majority of games affected by this would be mobile gacha games. Theres very few PC or console games that could not easily enact an end-of-life plan.

>>716428396
lefty communists are not that smart. Shame also because Ross is very intelligent when it comes to knowing about government fuckery.

>>716413272
>people shouldn't have houses, because someone could get shot in them!!

>>716428201
Wait, why is PayPal in there? I thought they're oka with porn and it's Visa and MasterCard who do the policing.

>>716428575
>You realize if corporations weren't regulated we'd just have a bunch of monopolies running around right?
Monopolies exist because of government regulation. In a free market, monopolies almost never form unless they're genuinely better than the competition and continue to be better (like Steam). Modern monopolies exist because government regulations have killed the ability for smaller companies to compete with the larger ones.

>>716420554
Libertarians are worse than shills, they do shill job but for free and with full sincerity

>>716428463
>>716428505
>but reddit!
>Being disingenuous again my ignoring the point
You commies really are low functioning.

>>716428651
paypal stopped payments to pornhub and similar sites like 6 years ago

>>716428709
>Modern monopolies exist because government regulations have killed the ability for smaller companies to compete with the larger ones.
You are going to give these commies a heart attacking by pointing that out.

>>716428526
And the reason why private CoH exist in the first place is because the IP owner didn’t exercise their rights and not because the source code and server hosting tools were leaked right retard?

>>716428714
Yes, but reddit. Maybe go back to your favourite company's subreddit you normalfaggot?

>>716428396
But does the law recognize it as a service? Not in the EU :)
You think you can write whatever you want on a piece of toilet paper and suddenly it's suddenly binding law?
>I said it's a service so I'm allowed to steal it from you whenever I want, no refunds!
The law says NO :)

>>716428838
Correct. If the IP holders wanted those servers down, they'd be down.

>>716428709
>Power does not accumulate
You are delusional.

>>716412386
Same thing no? Both are soulless animals that genuinely think they can shill people into being against their own best interests.

>>716428896
I asked why the servers exist in the first place

>>716428864
>Not in the EU
This EU? The same EU that will arrest you for mean tweets?

>>716418898
>where you're not allowed to question anything or they start sperging and calling you jeet bootlickers or whatever
if you actually put forward a valid complaint instead of saying something that either already is explained or that is straight up made up then maybe people won't assume yiu are an industry shill

>>716428806
This is a result of an unchecked free market whose pioneers made so much money they can now afford to invest into preventing market competition.

>>716429008
Irrelevant
>>716428985
Power accumulates, and the market is a better mechanism for curbing that tendency than government regulation is. A free market will discourage monopolies, while a meddling government will actively encourage them.

>>716412048 (OP)
Laws don't work retroactively, and you can still play all the games that were made 40 years ago.
You are a liar.

>>716429071
>posts an unrelated article
This study was suppressed because corporate organizations lobbied for its suppression. The same corporations being opposed here. And it's the UK that jails you for tweets, they left the EU a while ago.

>>716429127
It’s relevant to this thread and SKG which you keep failing to understand evidently.

>>716428526
>The holder of the IP choosing not to exercise their legal authority to shut something down
So you're saying that every single one of these games would have had an appropriate end of life plan if IP laws didn't exist: https://stopkillinggames.wiki.gg/wiki/Dead_game_list
That's insane logic. Removing IP laws doesn't release server binaries, abstract away micro-services, or provide instruction on how to run a server locally using docker.
Removing IP laws could help fans develop patches for dead games without fear of legal issues but that's far from the only reason why every dead game isn't preserved by fans.

>>716429214
If fans have a means to bring the games back or do what they will with the IP, then there is no issue. If you genuinely think it's acceptable to force companies to keep games online forever, then you're an idiot.

>>716427607
>>716429071
>I'm not american!
Meanwhile
>Is extremely stupid
>sucks corpo cock
>doesn't understand the difference between american and eu goverment
>doesn't understand consumer rights
>muh migrants
>is possibly a shitskin
Doubt.
>>716429071
Also you already used this image before and got explained why you're stupid.

>>716428714
1. I don't post on reddit. Censorship of any kind is bad.
2. The same person didn't write every single one of those posts
3. In the same way you're going to lump me into "lefty communists" because of my stance on SKG, I'm going to lump you in as being a fag redditor with no real opinion of their own

>>716428709
>In a free market, monopolies almost never form unless they're genuinely better than the competition and continue to be better

>>716429297
SKG is asking for companies to provide the means dummy

>>716429127
>the market is a better mechanism for curbing that tendency
Most of your food would give you cancer in five years if it weren't for the government intervention because carcinogenic taste additives and preservatives are cheaper to produce.

>>716429297
>If you genuinely think it's acceptable to force companies to keep games online forever
You're the idiot who tries to argue about something he doesn't even understand and never bothered to do 2 seconds of research. Godspeed, Retardo.

>>716429097
>Having pages upon pages of constricting regulations is actually a representation of the free market!
Please, please for the love that is holy and good, tell me you are just baiting at this point and your brain rotted communist brain doesn't actually believe this.

>>716429194
Thank you for once again proving my point that the government can't be trusted. You commies really are shit for brains.
>Only the UK does it
lmao, no it does not.

>>716429071
>>716428396
The same EU that throws billion dollar fines right into your face if you are trying to get out of their laws. Try fucking around with malicious compliance and see how far it gets you.
But you won't because CEOs know that they'll be immediately fired the moment one of those fines hits the company.

>>716429297
>If fans have a means to bring the games back or do what they will with the IP, then there is no issue
That's the problem. Then they don't. You can kill a game that has all of its IP in the public domain, retard.
>If you genuinely think it's acceptable to force companies to keep games online forever, then you're an idiot.
Glad to see we agree on something. https://www.stopkillinggames.com/faq

>>716429315
>>716429321
Thank you for continuing to prove me correct, please, continue talking. It truly is amazing how every single one of you freaks that shills stop killing games is communist.

>>716429360
They often can't, again, due to IP laws.
>>716429358
Correct
>>716429371
Nope. In fact, many of the things that are commonly derided for being in our food today are due to government regulation. Why does Coca Cola use high fructose corn syrup instead of proper sugar? Because we subsidize the fuck out of the corn industry and have tariffs and limitations on sugar imports while having quotas and price controls on domestic sugar. gg

What's with libertarians going to bat for corporations all the time? Do they truly think they'd suddenly benefit of corporations were completely unshackled and not be the first ones sent to the mines to toil for their masters?

>>716429440
B-but... no! Goverment bad! Corporations should be allowed to do whatever they want! The same corpos that openly claimed multiple times that they'd allow people to die in agony if it made the line go up!

>>716429410
>companies use their wealth to push themselves or their representatives into government to produce regulations that favor the companies they represent
Are you legit double digit IQ and just call everything you don't like communism? Do you think that in the absence of government companies wouldn't utilize their wealth to curb competition and not go even farther than they already do?

>>716429505
>got outed as a redditor
>has to resort to petty trolling to feel like he's won
many such cases

>>716429505
I think you genuinely should be used as an example how american "food" turns people into drooling retards.

>>716429519
Which part of IP laws forbids companies from providing customers with the means to host their own servers?

>the corporations abuses government regulations to pull up the ladder and make it harder for everyone
>that means you can't use government regulations to fight back against them because now it's communism

>>716412386
I didn't put nuttin' up..

>>716429519
And who do you think makes the possibility of those subsidies a reality? Where do you think that money comes from? From private establishment not regulated by governments.

>All these communists have left are name calling and disingenuous arguments to outright lies and deception
>All because they want to give the government they claim to hate so much more power to save their bing bang wahoo machines

>He posts a genuine Reddit meme
I believe he is trolling at this point, no one would be such a dumb normalfag

>consumer rights is communism
This is like the oldest trick in the book come on now. Nobody falls for that shit anymore.

LESS THAN A WEEK LEFT BROTHERS
THE CORPO BALLS SHALL BE KICKED WITH THE FURY OF A THOUSAND PLAYERS

>>716429858
From the same people who brought you "real communism has never been tried before" and "We all need to be perfectly equal"

>Anti SKG posts
>Looks inside
>Is American and a corpo defender
every time

>>716429858
And the oldest trick in the book is "if you are not with us you are with the king/corpos/americans/christians,ect

>>716430139
I genuinely want to know what benefit you get for letting corporations do whatever they want.

>>716429519
>They often can't, again, due to IP laws.
I created a game where 99% of the game is on the server. The client makes a few API calls and has a few assets for the menu; everything else is on my server.
Banishing IP laws can't help you if I choose not to release my server code when the game dies.

>>716420150
If there was a "preserve the data" regulation in place back then, we would be able to even know what games were available for this system.
But half of more is lost forever.

>>716430218
>Proving my point right again
>for the tenth time this thread

>>716418898
>why are you mean to people who refuse to read then make shit up in their head canon?
Because you're retarded
it's all there in the FAQ

Okay retard

Name 5 games that you will continue playing for years and why you would like those games that would be saved by your "SKS" movement.

>>716430436
More like
>Me, a perfectly reasonable CEO, on my way to make a well practiced speech about how it's overall better for the economy if some people die from lung cancer than actually spread awareness about the dangers of smoking and kill cigarette industry profits
Also learn how to save gifs properly you retard.

>>716430752
ANY game released in 2030, if shit is going like it's going.
The final plan, the thing that make em try to make stadia a thing over and over is that they don't want you to have the game files, they want sim city to succeed, they want to be able to press a button and make the game disappear forever from the face of earth.
SKG preemptively fucks with this plan completely.

>>716430775
lmao, my assumptions about you fags keep getting confirmed with every reply you retards make.

>>716430957
We already know that you're either baiting OR are a utterly retarded redditor. Which is it? Choose one.

>Name 5 games that you will continue playing for years
1. Helldivers 2
2. Chiv 2
3. Path Of Exile 1/2
4. Payday 2
5. Splitgate
>why you would like those games that would be saved by your "SKS" movement.
Because I like them. What a stupid fucking question

>>716430945
>Failed to name any games and instead tries to focus on another topic
I win again.

>>716413040
honestly by this point I actually hope the EU forces them to keep the servers up forever

>>716430752
All of them
Because I bought them

>>716431102
>Multiplayer games with no single player
wowsers!

>>716423925
>(everyone) else
That everyone being corpo shits, consumers only stand to gain from being to play that old game forgotten in the shelves one last time
Oh wait I forgot you're a fucking bootlicker, you dont even want physical copies of your own games you cretin

This makes corporate CEOs run in fear screaming for their lives as if they were transformed into a cute deer boy and dropped into /v/.

>>716431507
>Commies are having fag furry fantasies
You useful idiots really are something to behold.

>euro-/v/iggers actually believe SKG will amount to anything

Yeah sorry but it looks like you have never interacted with the EU before.
You are effectively living in a union where the right to initiate directives (that's your laws on EU level) lies with the commission (that's your government on EU level just in case you forgot) and practically nobody else.

There is a theoretical right of EU citizens to trigger initiatives, but
>a) it has impossibly high hurdles (SKG surprisingly took that hurdle, mostly because people could unite in their hatred of a single furfaggot) and
>b) citizen initiatives practically never get realized on a parliamentary level unless they are some oofy doofy lipservice bullshit that won't ever get taken seriously by anyone.

Don't believe me? Look up the EU citizen initiatives page. There's been like 6 succesful initiatives in what? Thirty years? Woah fuckin great! What a cool democratic union. I feel so empowered.

You gotta understand one thing:
The EU is essentially the economic arm of transatlanticists. It is voluntarily designed in a way that the two party system, bureaucratic elite can do whatever it wants (like creating the perfect framework for lawfare against unpleasant members and/or citizens) and you basically get nothing except for a couple bones to naw on every now and then.
Meanwhile they are building a whole industry on grants they hand out to their buddies.

And guess what: You ain't their buddies. That's why on the parliamentary level I see practically no chance for SKG.

It's gonna go in and and it's gonna get like 20 or 30% from parties that wanna be a pain in the ass for the ECR and push their own image and that's gonna be it.

Just a reality check.
Sorry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2idJwylrzY

>>716412386
>or

>>716413183
Keep Killing (indie and Live Service) Games

>>716431715
I seriously want to understand why the left thinks the EU is this pristine example of a perfect government when they constantly fuck their own people over. With how much "americans" get brought up I think they are just jealous of a more free nation.

I'm pretty sure they deliberately said multiple times that they don't demand infinite support from the devs, just a way for players to play the game they bought. Be it some kind of offline mode, a way to host your own servers or anything else you can come up with. Hell, some gacha games already offer you an offline version after the game EoS'd where you can read the story or spend times with the characters you had. The dragon quest mmo has an entire offline version. Just where does this idea come from that the developers themselves have to continue support?

Still signed.

>>716431672
I have at least 350 million reasons to tell you why you're retarded to conflate "public servers" with communism somehow.
It's a literal "we profit from the game without having to pay millions to keep super centralized servers on the whole fucking world, and we can run this shit basically forever."

>>716413873
because a pajeet being a retard is the same thing.

>>716431254
>Multiplayer games with no single player
>Path Of Exile
I should also be able to host servers but sure how about Runescape? Or Spore?

>>716431715
>Don't bother taking the only avenue you have to fight against this practice short of the ol' "vote with your wallet" trick
Reality check, right back to you, this was known from the start. The odds have been against this movement from the beginning.

>>716431759
>Just lobby against IP instead
Yea ask anyone trying to claw back Grimm Brothers IP from Disney how well that goes

>>716431943
>ur just jealous
I knew you were still here, redditor

what's even the purpose of shilling at this point?
the initiative got 1.4 million signatures, it's going to the EU whether your employer likes it or not and this shitposting will not be seen by the EU lawmakers making the decision

>>716432082
I wasn't calling public servers communist, I was calling your gay ass one. I have no issue with classic server browsers and public servers.

>>716412386
Faggit or newfag. Call it.

>>716432130
Yeah, in theory you should be able to host your own server in a perfect world. Sadly we don't live in one and forcing your utopia on others is exactly how we get to live in hell.

Also I'm still 100% right, you are jelly.

>>716412048 (OP)
>get banned from game, can never play it again
>this is somehow fine
>game gets deleted from existence, can never play it again
>this is supposedly a problem
If the Terms of Service are valid enough to remove me from the game, then surely they're valid enough to remove the game from me as well?

>>716432130
>Reality check, right back to you, this was known from the start.

Was it really?
I have barely followed this issue at all but the process of EU initiatives and their success chances doesnt seem to be well known at all.

Like some people believe that with a million signatures this stuff gets written into law right away.

>>716431715
>>716431943
>>716432130
I am european, shills. I appreciate living in a place where I am free to resell used software, nintendo is not allowed to brick my consoles, no one tries to feed me corn syrup and uppity companies can actually get slapped.
Can't imagine what it's like living under US goverment, but judging by the amount of retardation from all corpo bootlickers it's pretty bad.

>>716432287
>Sadly, asking for better consumer rights will lead to hell for everyone
Hey, Babel employee. What canned response do you guys have for "this only seeks to benefit consumers"?

>>716413183
there is no reason your shitty 8 bit game needs to be online

>but muh drm
cracked within hours
every
single
time

>>716432342
Just more proof we are dealing with communists
>You shouldn't be able to lose your online game
>But you STILL should be banned if you are being a chud!

>>716432371
I hope you enjoy getting shanked by some Muslims and then getting jailed for it when you complain. Then when you go buy your video game software you can't afford to buy anything due to a shit economy.

>>716413491
>>716413183
>>716419053
why. the. fuck. you keep feeding him
and no it will never kill shitty indie games you fucking brainded moron

>>716432150
The jeets were probably hired until the end of the month and won't get paid unless they keep it up to a satisfactory degree. That's the ones that gives the impression they know what they're talking about only to fail miserably when someone knowledgable joins in a demolish their talking points.
The retards that either try to argue in circles or go no u are obvious (You)farming social rejects desperate for something vaguely resembling human interaction.

>>716432342
Most games that have one grain of salt of brain never permaban unless you do shit like using cheating software, even if you use the nigger word.
However is a simple question of files.
You should always have all the files needed to play the game on your computer, even if you have to self host.
If there are game files that are not on your computer, then it's a remote service, not a game.

>>716432478
>Being disingenuous again!
If I was a shill I would be encouraging you to give the government more power so corpos can bribe said government for a slice of said power. You really have no idea how the real world works.

>>716432565
>Diversity is our strength, sister!
>But you stinky jeets can stay on your side
lmao

>>716432130
>Yea ask anyone trying to claw back Grimm Brothers IP from Disney how well that goes
So because the correct solution is hard, we should instead go with a retarded solution that will arguably make things worse? Companies CAN'T simply let games continue on forever, even if it's people privately hosting the servers, because 3rd party IP holders will often rape you over licensing fees or simply refuse to let you license out their content anymore.

>>716432494
1960s called, they want you back

>>716432371
yeah that's all really nice but our taxmoney still mostly gets spent on shit like pic related and other scams that basically just shuffle money to willing institutions.
iirc they didn't even have the decency to base this on a real world wide study, they just gave the cash to some bucko at a university in brussels and those guys spent a day on just some random beach counting bottle caps.

It's just a grant industry.

>>716413402
It’s funny because the UK and Australia won’t even be allowed to view this site.

>>716432368
>Was it really?
Yea they have a list of past actions.
https://www.stopkillinggames.com/pastactions
This EU petition was a literal last ditch effort. Ross's video that kicked this off was basically admitting defeat and getting his grievances with PirateSoftware off his chest.

>>716432624
If that were the case, why is this their response to the movement?
>Private servers are not always a viable alternative option for players as the protections we put in place to secure players’ data, remove illegal content, and combat unsafe community content would not exist and would leave rights holders liable. In addition, many titles are designed from the ground-up to be online-only; in effect, these proposals would curtail developer choice by making these video games prohibitively expensive to create.
https://www.videogameseurope.eu/news/statement-on-stop-killing-games/
>b-b-but asking for government regulation gives them another avenue to fuck you over
At least they'd have to bribe them instead of doing whatever they want now.

>>716429094
you don't even need to voice any complaints, anything other than OUR HOLY LEADER THE E-CELEB IS THE GREATEST EVER will result in get called in a jeet, you guys suck ass
>>716430497
>CONSULT THE HOLY BOOK
totally not cult behavior btw

>>716432874
Are you saying the government wastes money and gives it away to their friends under deception? All my furry comrades here are insistent that never happens, unless its American of course!

>>716432974
>Fucking over the little guy who won't be able to bribe their way through while big corpo's will be ignored is good actually
the absolute state. You really are just proving everything I say to be correct. Keep your hands off of things and let it run its course.

>>716432816
If SKG is to get anywhere then it sounds like we’re on the pathway for your final solution to IP laws. What’s the problem?

>>716433085
If you can't read their action plan why should I engage with you?

>>716432974
>https://www.stopkillinggames.com/pastactions

i mean that really just says how there have been unsuccessful efforts in various countries. it doesnt really go into the procedure in the EU and that the result of the ECI will probably be the same.

>>716412048 (OP)
>>716413183
>>716413272
>>716415085
>>716417674
this movement will not kill your indies.. but AI will :)

>>716413272
>Can make custom maps, low gravity, unlimited ammo or any other funny rules I want
Yeah, you wouldn't ?

>>716422105
Any and all arguments will be refuted or insulted.

>>716432874
>pic related
Actually one of the best minor innovations made in recent memory.

>>716433085
It's sad because Ross, the guy who is behind all of this, is actually really intelligent and knows his shit when it comes to government corruption and deception. So I just really want to know why he trusts a big corrupt government just because he liked a single racing game that got killed off.

It's also amusing how shills here call anybody they don't like a jeet when they helped foster jeets getting everywhere in the first place with diversity and shit. It's almost like they are brown themselves, explains why they love the EU so much.

>>716412048 (OP)
this isn't requested by the initiative at all, you illiterate mongoloid

>>716432816
>So because the correct solution is hard, we should instead go with a retarded solution that will arguably make things worse?
1. Getting things passed requires compromise in some capacity
2. IP law has been readily beaten into place where as this is vague and can't be swatted down with "see our previous ruling" immediately
3. Reducing the insane IP laws would only be step 1 and you'd still need what SKG is asking for in order to prevent a developer from intentionally self destructing a game.
>Companies CAN'T simply let games continue on forever, even if it's people privately hosting the servers, because 3rd party IP holders will often rape you over licensing fees or simply refuse to let you license out their content anymore.
1. No one is asking for it to go on forever. Read the 4th point on the FAQ: https://www.stopkillinggames.com/faq
2. What licensing fees? I bought the game for one which was included in the license.
3. This trend could easily be stopped if these license holders were told "hey you're entire client base can't use your product due to your IP restrictions"

>hey guys I like ross and al he's very smart but isn't it sad that he's so fucking retarded doing all this just to play some racing game? Also you're brown, dunno if that matters.

>>716433192
>Fucking over the little guy
The little guy is already over the barrel. We're asking the only other guy that could be on our team to help. If they choose not to, at least we have our answer.
If your scenario is made true or if we do nothing, nothing changes. If your scenario is made false, we gain rights as consumers. It's not that fucking hard

>>716433272
Yea I was hoping more detail would be in there. Ross has stated in videos that he's gotten replies back from the EU and felt that this had relatively low odds.
He even mentioned that he would be happy with any ruling, regardless if it was in the favor of the movement or not. At least removing the ambiguity would make it clear that companies are allowed to do this to us.

>>716433442
>2. What licensing fees?
The ones that companies pay to people who make music, or car brands, or gun brands, or anything else in a game you can possibly think of that would have to be licensed out from a 3rd party. Many games have been shut down due to continuing issues with these licenses.

>>716412048 (OP)
>brownoid zoomer doesn't know what the concept of "grandfathering" is

>>716433743
>No. While those can be a problem for the industry, those would only prohibit the company from selling additional copies of the game once their license expires. They would not prevent existing buyers from continuing to use the game they have already paid for.

>>716433085
>Has a frequently asked question
>Refers someone to where that's answered
>Some how cult behavior

>>716413183
I am yet to understand how
I mean Central Server isn't chosen by AAA because its cheaper, but because they get more control over it and can force their games as a service scam

>>716433596
you're so mad lmao.

>>716425138
>this initiative will mindcontrol every game exec to shoot trans people!
>but they only want companies to stop preventing third parties from keeping the game alive
>the only consequences of our actions are those we intend
this is your logic

>>716434036
You sure do have a lot of reddit memes with fake filenames.

>>716412048 (OP)
Most laws are not retroactive so that doesn't make sense.

>>716428279
dumb zoomer

>>716433678
>If your scenario is made true or if we do nothing, nothing changes. If your scenario is made false, we gain rights as consumers.
See, I understand this answer and I accept it. I still disagree but I at least understand your thought process now and will respect it. It's nice to see at least some of you in this movement is actually sane and honest.

>>716420937
overanimated slop

>>716433357
yeah i really fucking love having to fumble with this shit all the time cause I am too retarded to just put the cap back on when i'm done drinking.

>>716412048 (OP)
Can't we just drone this guy?

That’s just straight misinformation.The initiative doesnt apply to games retroactively. In other words, this legislation would only impact games releasing in the future. No old games would be expected to have an end of service plan.

>>716416203
>What's the difference
about 10 IQ points

>>716434486
It didn't work in RE7 and won't work in deepest, darkest poland.

>>716432342
But you could literally play it again even if you only ever used the word “nigger” once end of life hits.

>>716433085
>I try to voice my opinion on something I know nothing about and didn't even bother to read a short FAQ, and now people tell me I'm a retard. how could this happen?

>>716435090
>I'm going to immediately insult people asking questions and call them a jeet corpo american
>Why isn't anybody taking me seriously?
Honestly you retards do a better job turning people away then the actual "shills" here do.

>>716435309
>asking questions
It’s amazing how every time a question is answered in good faith, the answerer is immediately called names by these “curious onlookers”.

>>716421785
holy shit, only literal 60 IQ subsaharan nigger projecting could be this stupid. if they want to profit from a game, they shouldn't shut it down, otherwise they should allow people to preserve games they paid for and own, it's not a difficult concept.

>>716413183
cockroachcocksucker

>>716435435
>answered in good faith
lmao. For over a week, asking question after question all you people did was strawman and insult and throw a tantrum. I only got one, I say only one honest reply that I respect and is fully logical. That is why I keep calling you morons communists because that all you ever know what to do is lie and deceive then because confused and enraged when you get betrayed by everyone again.

>>716435309
Why can't you just read the FAQ?

>>716433192
>>716433678
>Fucking over the little guy who won't be able to bribe their way through while big corpo's will be ignored is good actually
This lie pisses me off in particular because I am actually one of those little guys. No, SKG does not affect any of us because you already need to be a big corpo shelling out money for a central server to design an online only game. We little guys do not have that capital to make online only games. Only big corpos have to worry about SKG.

>>716435641
I’m sure.

>>716435653
I was saying that as using bribery as a wall and what kind of corruption will happen. As it is however I am fully aware that the SKG movement, as stated, will not hurt the little guy. But that's the issue, "As is". I still don't trust the government as they will probably find a way to corrupt and twist it so it will hurt the little guy in a monkey paws way.

>>716435653
Yeah, actually, most indie games seem to either
A) Be LAN-based
B) Use direct IP connections to a server
C) Use <insert someone else here>'s online infrastructure optionally for connection
I honestly think it's hard to find any indie games that are online only, most of them operate like ye olde online games

>>716412048 (OP)
as long as i live you will suck my dick because thats what you signed up for in the trad contract. that's the rules around here. if you don't like it enjoy selling your game in bangladesh

>>716435862
I cannot pretend to care enough to fear the evil government over the evil corporations. Demon, monster, kill eachother, you know the bit.

>>716428331
What does operating system has to do with hardware? You can install any Linux distro on your shitbox and Steam will run just fine.

>>716432494
Muslims only exist to make kebabs where I live. And I can afford plenty of games.

>>716435965
>Outright admitting you trust the government more then the corpos while pretending to hate both to run cover

or you just release the server code so people can self host their own servers like every game did in the 00s.

you can still play ut99, Battlefield 2, Counter Strike Source, and many other games because of that.

>>716436153
I trust neither, but playing one against the other is my literal only move to secure rights for myself you retard.

>>716412386
It's honestly amazing that you retards can be baited by anything.

>>716428405
>VPN protects your computer

>>716429321
>Censorship of any kind is bad
>where's my cp?

>>716436252
They weren't alive back then.

>>716437325
Embedded in sink pictures

>>716424954
>This is probably bait but there are shitters who unironically grew up with Steam and-
all of valve's multiplayer games allow you to host your own servers and even makes it piss easy to host your own servers for games by just compiling all the software in a list, both for games you do and dont own.
dont blame valve or steam.

>>716437541
>ignores that Valve locks you out of devices

>>716437621
>ok but what if this thing that doesnt happen did happen?

>>716412414
This

>>716412386
Same thing

>>716412048 (OP)
Just
Fucking
Release
The
Server
Tools

It's that easy. You know that servers are just programa that run on a computer that receives connection petitions and handle those petitions right? If you have the program you can run it in a computer at home

>>716415739
True, the primary texts of John Locke, Adam Smith, and Thomas Paine are part of the standard history curriculum in middle school here. As well as contemporary government and economics, of course.

>>716431715
>Don't believe me? Look up the EU citizen initiatives page. There's been like 6 succesful initiatives in what? Thirty years? Woah fuckin great! What a cool democratic union. I feel so empowered.

There's actually a 10-of-10 success rate for all 10 initiatives that managed to meet their signatory thresholds and weren't withdrawn by their initiators midway through.

>>716437673
>doesn't happen
You literally can't play "your" physical copy of Half-Slop 2 on the platforms that it was sold for.
Keep coping.

>>716436153
EU fucked over Apple by forcing it to use USB-C. I see it as a good thing. SKG has the potential to do the same thing, while avoiding being an overregulated mess. I'm willing to take the gamble, I don't see how the situation can get any worse.

>>716428279
I have NES cartridges and CDs from the 80s that still work. If you don't live in the middle of the jungle and actually care about your stuff, it'll be fine.

Only games with an internal battery can be a problem if the battery spills, but again, take care of your things

>>716412048 (OP)
you would want to intentionally get rid of your grandfather's legacy?

>>716437972
>our appstoreis now too complex for this device, we're so-
>AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH VALVE IS STEALING MY GAMES!!!!!!!
if you're still using a 32bit machine today thats a you problem.

>>716428412
Steam doesn't work on XP anymore. If the game uses Steam dll to work, you can't run it. You would need to bypass it as if you were a filthy pirate, so at that point buying things doesn't make sense

>>716438215
>steam
I have CD's of the games that were made with XP in mind.

>>716438135
>our simple web shit store is too complex

>>716422105
I personally like riling up indians. I hate their food, their accent, their smell, their culture, their breeding habits, etc.
If they are gonna shit up the place, I’m gonna make that 1.2 rupee/hour tiring and sad for them.

>>716438530
trying to maintain compatibility with 32 bit devices is an increasingly complex task.
you're complaining that the town hall wont accept your tax paperwork in the form of clay tablet.

>>716438554
>their food
Is actually pretty good. Certainly better than bong food.
Everything else about them is repulsive.

>>716438791
Better than bong food is like saying "it's better than poison". Not exactly a high bar to exceed. I still would rather eat raw rye bread than put any Inidan made or Indian handled foodstuff anywhere near my mouth.

>>716413491
>>716413884
>>716419053
>>716420342
>>716424954
>>716427260
>>716432487
>>716434001
>>716435571
I falseflagged you all :3

>>716412386
Porque no los dos?

>>716438762
>it's super complex
>you would need tons of 30% money to do it
>you can't even create a small DRM slop client to make the games work and allow redownloads
>it's basically impossible

>>716439423
you could try using an older version of steam that can be used on 32 bit devices.

>>716439552
>you could try
Or I could just try to not use Steam slop with its shitty online DRM and all my games will work.

>>716412048 (OP)
Should've distributed a dedicated server package while you had the chance!

>>716439660
>here's a solution
>NO I DONT WANT THAT IM MAD ABOUT BASIC ANTI-PIRACY COUNTERMEASURES!!!!!!!!
you are aware that its piss easy to strip the steam dependency from games, right?

>>716439339
>porque
por qué = why
porque = because

>>716439653
>Rickshaw Ross and 1400000 Gwailos

It's good enough to be a movie by itself.

>>716439751
>basic
>invasive online DRM that locks people out of their purchases
choose one
I will go with physical manual checks, get fucked Gabe

>10 years after releasing pixelslop #57474563
>can no longer afford my weekly onions injections
>sold into sex slavery in Sudan to pay for servers so GAMERS can smudge their cheeto encrusted hands on your life's work

>>716439825
the steam dependency also works without an internet connection unless you havent connected once in forever. this is purely a you problem.

>>716439945
>lies

The smartest move is to use the corporations and governments in different situations to feed my ego and use them as my personal property.
They both serve different uses to me, so I will use them where I see fit.
>But what about muh poor developers
Spook
>But what about muh social good
Spook

I will use them the ways I see fit.

>>716440359
Based ghostbuster.

>consumer protection laws takes decades to approve
>corporate censorship gets approved in less than a day
clown timeline

>>716428806
Boomers still needed to operate a company separate from their person, and still needed insurance, and they still needed to be licensed to get that insurance policy in order to do business. And they still needed to acquire permits to actually perform work.
The only legitimate difference here is the health insurance requirements and the absolute costs associated with all of that shit.

No, SKG is about drop kicking every Indian and SEA nigger into the sun.

>government mandates client-side backup migration must always be included with game releases
>devs now have to dedicate work hours to making sure every server-side update can be replicated on a client's machine on the inevitability that one update will be their last
>this extra work somehow won't cut into dev-time on gameplay or other features, and won't have a price-increase offloaded onto customers
You guys are gonna get exactly what you deserve if you actually achieve government-mandated development requirements.

>>716442158
Yeah, it's not like every competent software developer has an offline version of their software to test and develop before pushing to production.
OH
WAIT

>>716442352
Real men test in production.

>>716442453

>Just released: Movie 2!
>Leaving soon: Movie 1
>that'll be $15 a month+ads
This is actually worse than gaming.

>>716442453
It all makes sense now. Companies are forced to hire immigrants and women, instead of testing during production they test things after release instead.

>>716442830
That might actually explain a lot of things and the current state of the games industry.
Actually, the software industry in general.

How fucking hard is it to make it so the players PC just does whatever it is that their server needs to do in single player games with some always online requirement. Fucking most of them don't do anything other than validate you bought the game anyways. And if they don't want to be bothered with even selling the game anymore since they can't sell a game that doesn't work, why would they give a fuck if fans hosted their own server with a download. It all really seems like a simple "fuck you" for no reason in particular.

>>716443595
Impossible apparently.

Why does the industry fear Ross so much /v/? I'm starting to think he may become one of the most important people in gaming history at this point and he's not even working within the industry.

>>716442558
not really. this suscription is based on constantly changing catalog. that's what you're paying form
you're complaining about a restaurant not selling X food anymore. or an amusement park not having some game anymore.

when it comes to movies you need to look at shit like sony, amazon or Itunes. where you supposedly buy an specific movie and then gets retired from your account.

imagine you buy a DVD and the loicence gestapo comes into you your house and destroy the disc because they don't own the rights of the sountrack anymore.

>>716444531
>imagine you buy a DVD and the loicence gestapo comes into you your house and destroy the disc because they don't own the rights of the sountrack anymore.
Thankfully modern digital distribution makes this possible, whereas before with physical distribution it was not cost effective to do so. Once everything is connected and online only we will be able to successful defend private property rights very easily.

>>716444531
I get what you're saying. But Netflix feels very familiar to The Crew here. Like here, watch the original Happy Gilmore to regain interest in the NETFLIX ORIGINAL (shittier) Happy Gilmore, and then we'll remove the one we don't have have as much ownership of. They're trying to drive you to the second one and forget about the first because it will make them more money. Or more specifically, the sequel costs far less to keep on their platform than the original.

>STOP KILLING GAMES
>how?
>THATS FOR THE GUBBERMINT TO FIGURE OUT, DUH!

why are SKG shills so retarded?

>>716445127
I've using netflix since 2013 because of my family and I can count with one hand the amount of times the back to the future trilogy has been there. is always 1&2 or 2&3. what the fuck they are they thinking? they are retarded.

>>716412048 (OP)
and why wouldn't I want that? You silly OP?

>>716412048 (OP)
>your great grandfather
LMAO!
these """people's""" bloodline ends with them

>>716412048 (OP)
Gross misunderstanding, but good reminder to keep signatures up!