Thread 716506204

>take a premise/idea that sounds absolutely retarded on paper
>make a game that’s pure kino and one of the best ARPGs ever made
>game ends up being such a massive success that it spawns a long running franchise with a religiously loyal fanbase

How the fuck did KH pull it off when it could have so easily been a trainwreck?

Sincerity goes a long way.

As a kid, my favorite was KH2. As an adult it’s the original. What changed?

>>716506572
You appreciate the package as a whole and appreciate smaller details more than flashy setpieces.

KH2 is a soulful game, but the sheer amount of soul and attention to detail in KH1 is immeasurable.

>>716506204 (OP)
>takes an idea that sounds retarded on paper
and thats why ill never play it. its retarded

>So much talent squandered in the HD era because devs wont make inexpensive gambles on dumb shit like this and will only make AAA-AAAA shitfests
>Meanwhile indie can only barely afford to make games of this scale
Suffering

I fucking wish it still got games

>>716508202
It really isn’t as dumb as it sounds in practice. It’s basically just a Disney themed JRPG with some minor Final Fantasy cameos and some Final Fantasy spells and abilities. It’s an FF game, except the cast are Disney characters and the combat is real time.

i'm mentally checked out of the story but i'll probably check out the next entry for the inevitable DLC with superboss fights

>>716508419
>inexpensive
KH1 was very much a AAA game of its day. It had a cast of Hollywood A-listers doing the English dub, had Disney money being thrown at it left and right, and had Square’s most talented devs working on it. By the standards of 2002, it was likely ridiculously expensive to make. The only reason it got made was that Squaresoft from the 90s-early 2000s was staffed by absolute madmen who were 100% willing to take a chance on risky projects (which is ironically what ended up killing them, as seen with The Spirits Within).

>>716506572
You became a contrarian

>>716509442
Preferring KH1 was the popular opinion for many years until the 2010s when people pretended that 2FM fixed all of vanilla 2’s issues and not just some of them.

>>716506572
You recognised the original had more soul and less anime bullshit.

>>716506204 (OP)
I think it was just out at the right time

>>716506204 (OP)
Boy meets girl formula always work just like Xenoblade 2. Kairi is super sexy in first game too bad they aged up characters later.

>>716512179
Never dare to compare xenoshit with Kingdom Heart ever again

>>716506572
KH1 is a more complete, soulful package. If it had KH2's combat it wouldn't even be a question and I feel it's the only reason why 2 is preferred by some.

>>716506204 (OP)
It had soul and embraced the insanity while being fun

>>716506572
Nostalgia maybe? KH1 also had a better story and character interactions. Plus the disney worlds felt like they actually mattered to the plot

>>716509982
>less anime bullshit.
Why do you geeks always hate fun? Why choose to be boring?

>>716508509
This. Disney and SE games both of roots in folklore, old stories, and fairy tales. Brightly colored fantasy stories with heightened emotions and good music.

>>716512612
I feel that in some ways, 2’s combat is overpraised and that 1’s combat is underappreciated.

2 gives you all these new abilities, but it doesn’t make the enemies stronger to compensate, so 90% of the game is braindead easy. Not even Critical mode helps this much, since Reflect is totally busted. You’re on a bit more of an even playing field in KH1, which leads to the combat becoming more tactical and slow paced. Party members are also way more useful in KH1, whereas in 2, they’re basically just limit and drive dispensers. At times, it feels like 2 forgot the “RPG” part in “ARPG”.

>>716506204 (OP)
It did help that the cast was small. Other then Roxas none of the newer protagonists ever click as well.

>>716514339
I’ve always said that FF games are basically the Disney movies of vidya, since they often tackle identical themes and usually go for a similar tone. The only difference is that FF is marketed towards teenagers instead of kids. I guess that would make FF VI,VII,VIII,IX and X the franchise’s “Renaissance movies”.

If you look at it this way, you realise that Disney and FF are the perfect crossover pairing.

>>716506572
This has happened to me with almost every series I’ve played on the past few years. Spyro, Ratchet, Medievil; and I know it’ll be the case with KH when I start it up soon.
There’s a lightning-in-a-bottle aspect to those first games where even if the sequels make improvements, they just don’t have that same creative spark.

HOLY FUCK SOMEONE STOLE MY _______

>>716514752
Aqua and Xion both caught on to the point that they’re both fan favourites, but them being cute girls likely had a lot to do with that, as well as their tragic stories.

>>716515908
PENIS

>>716506572
KH1 is your favorite if you're a bright eyed kid or an adult who is a kid at heart
KH2 is your favorite if you're a stunted teenager.

>>716506204 (OP)
How does it sound like a bad idea on paper?

>>716506572
KH2 is genuinely overrated to an extreme degree and it pales in comparison to most games in the series.

>>716517807
Some people would say that combining Disney with a franchise known for its weeb anime aesthetics is dumb, but the truth is it works perfectly.

>>716506572
KH1 is a master class in platforming level design and exploration. There's tons of verticality and progressive discovery in every world, and the sense of mystery (maybe there's still something hidden to find if I just look hard enough?) is there till the very end of the game.

KH2 and onwards moved away from the platforming exploration aspect and instead put more effort into the action combat systems, which is ok I guess but you can tell that the levels from KH2 onwards steadily became more and more flat and linear and uninteresting. The Mulan world from KH2 was probably the most egregious example. Even as a kid I was like "WTF is this? This level is complete trash and they put no effort into it!"

>>716506572
I love both games equally but there's a huge narrative problem with the opening of KH2 that makes me groan every time I replay. On the gameplay side I have few complaints.

>>716518051
>2 onwards

They course-corrected pretty hard after 2. Days brought back some platforming, BBS is a middle-ground between 1’s platforming exploration and 2’s linearity, and DDD and 3 are arguably the closest to KH1 level design since KH1.

>>716516828
KH3 (with Re Mind) is your favorite if you're based

>>716518197
The opening of 2 is arguably the strongest part of the game’s narrative though.

I think the bigger problem is that the cutscene direction and script writing quality fell off a cliff compared to the first game. 2 may have the highest amount of cringe-inducing cutscenes of any game in the franchise.

>>716517998
They did not even do that though also you didn't even explain how that would be dumb you bot.

>>716506204 (OP)
KH1 has an amazing final level and ending.

>>716515976
>but them being cute girls likely had a lot to do with that,
Considering they're both bland shit characters, yeah I'd say so

>>716518668
The ending is legit one of the greatest vidya endings of all time. I love how the game decided to end on a bittersweet, but overall hopeful note, and how Ansem is defeated in the most poetic way imaginable.

>>716512485
You're right KH is far inferior in that respect

>>716515976
I think Aqua is liked because she's more fun to play and isn't as fucking stupid as Terra and Ven

>>716519019
Probably also because the belts accentuate her tits

>>716506572
Your taste changed. Nothing wrong with that. They're both great games and the constant fanboy wars over the two is retarded.

>>716518941
"I know now, without a doubt. Kingdom Hearts... IS LIGHT!"

>>716519246
>tfw no Brier Rabbit summon that creates tar babies to distract enemies

>>716519187
She also wears spats, which show off her ass well. Her design is pure sex, but that’s unsurprising since Nomura has always designed 10/10 girls.

>>716506572
You realize the original is the better package all around.

AND YOUUUU AND IIIIIII THERES A NEW LAAAAAAAND

>>716519246
>the constant fanboy wars over the two is retarded
At least it's not FF tier

>>716518668
it's kino for sure

>>716519259
Ripped from Devil May Cry

>>716519347
it took me a long time to realize that the dragon head isn't their actual face

>>716506572
i just love hollow bastion

>>716519329
>You realize the original is the better package all around.
My ass it is. Kh2FM's way more fun. Only dorks think otherwise.

>>716519510
I don't think it meaningfully matters, these guys are just weird.

>>716506572
You now prefer stronger theming over refined gameplay

>>716506572
i played them both a year ago
2 has kino boss fights and is better as a game
but it still didnt capture the same feeling of wonder of exploring the world like 1 did for me

>>716506572
Kh2 is flashier so it appeals to kid brains more. Kh1 has a better story, level design, exploration, pacing, the novelty factor of being a new IP, and actual decision making in building sora. 2 only has better gummi ship segments and combat and honestly combat in 2FM doesn't get better than 1's until you're late into the game.

>>716506572
The heartless in 2 are a pain in the ass

>>716515057
Yeah that both had golden ages in the 90s that kids at the time had a lot of nostalgia for. It was really a great match up and I love how autistic it gets. It's the kind of shit that could only really happen in the early 2000s.

>>716519887
Big brains like KH2 the most (not the bandwagoners but actual gigabrains who do challenge runs)
Small brains like KH1 because of that windowdressing gay shit you described
Complete non-thinking subhumans like KH3

>>716514495
>Not even Critical mode helps this much, since Reflect is totally busted.
If we're talking busted, cure combined with leaf bracer and second chance trivializes the entirety of KH1.

>>716520263
KH1 magic and MP backup was always bound to cause problems desu

>>716520236
Big brains like KH2 the mo-ACK!

>>716520263
Technically there's still four ways to die with that setup: Sephiroth DHA, Zisa's magic lock, Xemnas bullshit grab thing and Phantom's clock gimmick and/or the doom move (can't remember exactly).

All superbosses. This "it only poses some difficulty in le post game" ironically applies more to KH1 than 2.

>>716520236
>challenge runs
Cancer for YouTumors

>>716520236
All that stuff mentioned in the pic isn’t that important in KH2 until the FM exclusive post-game content. No one is saying 2 had bad mechanics; just that they didn’t take advantage of them as well as they could have.


Also, I would consider things like level design, pacing, writing quality, balancing and character building to be pretty major components, and 1 demolishes 2 in those aspects.

>>716520617
Imagine being one of the subhumans in the 00s who claimed KH2 was a button masher only to face the most ruthless humiliation in video game history after it gradually but definitively came out that its one of the most genius and deepest action games.

>>716520753
Oh shit

>>716506204 (OP)
>been a trainwreck?
???
The series absolutely is a train wreck now, it's practically on life-support at this point. Much like Final Fantasy, SE dragged their feet for too long between proper entries, introduced far too many spinoffs of questionable quality, and lost the spirit/sovl of what made the series great in the first place. Just pray they don't fuck up Dragon Quest next.

>>716520620
If you chew through all your MP trying to cheese with leaf bracer you run out of a critical resource to do damage with.
Hilariously reflect is WAY more busted than leaf bracer ever was, since it deals some of the best damage in the game AND makes you (mostly) immune to damage, and costs fucking nothing.
Not to mention you can just driveform to get all your mp back

>>716520789
Nope, the journo was right, kh2 is braindead. 2fags actually seethe if you use base tools the game gives you (e.g. reflect/magnet) and consider it cheating lol

>>716520752
Those apply for the entire game. The meme you are shilling is more of a KH1 thing, see >>716520620

KH2 has NG2 and DMC5 level design, it's not trying to be a scrimbo platformer while having action game mechanics.
KH1's pacing is horrid, you have next to no no options until Agrabah and then by the time you get your full toolset (Mushu, Zantetsuken, etc) the game is already over.
Balancing is better in the game where you can't spam Cure forever.
Character building is a one-time choice in KH1. KH2 has more actual build variety due to the introduction of more combo modifiers, Negative Combo, dual keyblades and keyblade abilities, etc.

>>716520557
I do think KH 1 has better balancing and gameplay overall. But I think this could have easily been fixed by making cure consume almost all your MP. I think the only reason it doesn’t was to be a bit more forgiving in the early stages of the game, since up until the end of Agrabah, the game can be quite challenging before getting easier, and then getting harder again once you hit Hollow Bastion.

>>716520914
That's not how the Cure immortal setup he's describing works. The amount of starting MP is irrelevant. Why are you shilling a game you don't know how to play?

>MP Rage ensures that after a hit, you can always Cure
>Second Chance ensures that a hit will never kill you
>Leaf Bracer ensures that you will never get hit during Cure

You are literally unkillable in KH1 outside of specific attacks from postgame bosses.

>AND makes you (mostly) immune to damage
Reflect has i-frames until you stop chaining it at which point you're vulnerable, while KH1's immortal Cure setup can be used forever.

>>716517817
>pales in comparison to most games in the series
No way in hell are Days, BBS, and DDD better then KH2.

>>716520975
2chads are the ones who spent a decade studying and mastering those tools, what the fuck are you talking about?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCQrAffavZo&l

So this guy made a video about advanced Magnet tech because he considers it illegitimate to use? Are you braindead?

KH's story isn't nearly as wacky as people claim it is

Guys fuck Disney for never doing anything with one of thier best characters Roxas. They even tried to replace him with the fag Ventus for dei purposes. It's miles morales all over again. And just like miles Ventus has no fans.

When can I play as Roxas again? One singular shitty boss fight in one shitty dlc doesn't count. And if they went through the trouble of making him playable in the dlc why didn't they include a mode where you can be him anytime you want? I literally only bought the dlc to play as him. They're fucking character nazis, telling me I can't play as the character I purchased except for in 1 spot!

>>716520789
KH2 is utterly braindead outside of the late game bosses though. Mashing attack and using reflect destroys most bosses, and every mob encounter can be solved with Magnet + Thunder, because unlike KH 1, they did away with certain enemies being immune to certain spell types.

>>716521343
Autists study every game for decades no matter how shitty (see sonic fanbase), your point is moot

>>716521228
>Reflect has i-frames until you stop chaining it
When it throws out some of the heaviest fucking damage in the game and staggers everything short of the classic KH2 Boss "nuh-uh" where they just completely ignore damage altogether.

>>716509723
KH fandom was also largely focused on the story. Its why I think the series in general is slept on gameplay wise.

>>716521403
it is basicly just your average final fantasy plot
those games had time travel and crazy plottwists ever since the first one

>>716521416
There's challenging fights throughout the entire game. The Data fights are literally remixes of fights mandatory and available throughout the campaign. The only thing "mashing attack" accomplishes is seeing the game over screen

>Magnet + Thunder
How did you hit Sorcerers with Thunder?

>>716521403
People only claim it’s wacky because:

A. They can’t get past how absurd the premise sounds on paper.

B. They watch one of those “Kingdom Hearts explained” videos on YT where they dump the entire plot of the series on you at once rather than drip feeding you the information in digestible chunks over the course of several games like the actual games do.

KH’s story is basically just a FF story with cartoon characters. In fact, Nomura originally planned to have a more basic story, but Disney and Sakaguchi both advised him to make the plot more complex like a FF game.

>>716521404
They need to bring back Twilight Thorn too.

>>716521228
The reason why reflect is so absurd in 2FM is in addition to costing little MP and have a huge invulnerability period that skips entire boss mechanics, it also shits out a ton of damage. You can keep healing in KH1 but that does fuck all to the bosses

>>716521527
Nope, most single player games don't have dedicated and active gameplay communities after decades, the ones that do usually have standout qualities.

>>716521530
Not seeing any point in your post. Reflect can get you killed when misused, it's not analogous to Cure making you immortal in KH1.

>>716506317
Gameplay is decent, too. Member berries help the game immensely.

>>716521789
It's never been absurd unless you're playing on a baby difficulty where taking a hit doesn't matter/get you killed. Invulnerability period doesn't matter if you aren't safe when it ends, which takes knowledge/skill.

>>716520753
what the FUCK

>>716521643
Sorcerers are still vulnerable to magnet, so even if they resist Thunder, an combo is going to finish them and anything else caught in their radius, especially since Sorcerers are encountered VERY late in the game.

>>716522085
Invulnerability period is still fuck huge and you're only vulnerable for a small period of time. Reflect does a shit ton of damage even in critical mode (specifically in FM since it was buffed).

>>716522157
>so even if they resist Thunder
They're immune, not resistant. So what happened to "every mob encounter can be solved with Magnet + Thunder"?

>an combo is going to finish them
How do you combo while they're attacking you? This happens regardless of Magnet's presence.

>>716521884
>Intentionally underleveled as fuck
>Sat yourself somewhere for marluxia to push you onto the death pits
>DEURRR REFLEC AGUALLY BAD

>>716522085
The only time Reflect timings matter is the Data/Absent Silhouette fights, which doesn’t disprove the point. The game doesn’t become challenging until the post game. That’s the point. The story bosses are just way too forgiving. Meanwhile, there are several story bosses in the first game that will tear you a new asshole if you’re not prepared.

>>716522243
Yes, the attack has benefits, such as its damage (which functions as a parry and requires you to drop the string outside finishers); and tradeoffs, such as its recovery and dependence on the enemy attacking first. Risk and reward. That's how a good game and move is designed.

>>716506572
KH1 has its own charme, its very bittersweet, the underlying "friendship" theme is something we long for getting older
its a great package just playing KH1
also the intro

>>716515976
>fan favourites
doesn't mean they're good

i really liked the addition of more FF characters in kh2 but man kh1 holds such a special place in my heart

>>716506204 (OP)
because shes in it

>>716522449
If it were designed well it would be more balanced, it is not. Funny enough it was perfectly fine in base 2, if only a bit abusable due to being able to skip mechanics but it wouldn't do a fuck ton of damage.

>play kh2
>wonder why i'm not getting the roll ability
>it's not in the game

........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvoWu5vfbkI

Imo KH1s worlds music is miles better than 2s

>>716522609
It is if you play a proper version of 2

>>716522674
i am playing final mix anon

>>716522312
>>Intentionally underleveled as fuck
That webm is overleveled, LV.1 is literally the baseline difficulty for anyone who has the slightest clue what they're talking about.
>>Sat yourself somewhere for marluxia to push you onto the death pits
So Reflect = death?
>>DEURRR REFLEC AGUALLY BAD
It's not, it's good but not overwhelmingly so like every move in KH2, and unlike Cure in KH1.

>>716522429
>The only time Reflect timings matter is the Data/Absent Silhouette fights
Those aren't even the only postgame humanoid fights where it matters, let alone fights in general. try again.
>The game doesn’t become challenging until the post game
Genie Jafar is stricter than most of the Data fights. It's time to get off baby modes.

Traverse Town

Home

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDmDli2dQ7g

>>716522596
>it is not
>"no u"
Meanwhile, actual gameplay footage: >>716521884

>>716522720
Then it's in

>>716518495
3 definitely has more cringe scenes, not even close.

>>716522508
I think something great about KH1 is the theme of adult cynicism vs. childhood optimism. Ansem is a complete doomer cynic similar to Kefka from FF6 and thinks he’s correct because he’s in a position of authority. Meanwhile, Sora’s a dumb kid from a backwater island who believes in ideals that sound naive, yet his ideals are proven to be correct in the end.

I think part of getting older is realising that childish sounding ideas actually aren’t as immature as they sound, and that it’s adults who just make the world more complex and messy than it needs to be.

>>716522656
I think KH1 is the overall more solid game but KH2 has my favorite soundtrack.
>Roxas theme
>Twilight Town
>Land of Dragons
>Beast's Castle
>Port Royal
>Timeless River
>Space Paranoids
>Atlantica
>TWTNW

>>716506572
Played this entire series for the first time recently as an adult, and I have to agree with you. 2’s movement and more combat/air trick focused gameplay definitely feel stronger the first time you’re playing, but the level design is worse to facilitate said combat and the story is more filler compared to 1. I like 1’s spells better, even if I enjoyed the drive forms and the later bosses like data org/LW in 2 more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niQWT4i7XkU

THIS banger of a tune

>>716522908
Agreed, the themes were a lot less well, anime, for the lack of a better term. A self contained story in a self contained setting.

>>716506572
The original Kingdom Hearts was genuinely trying to blend Final Fantasy with Disney's many movies and cartoons to be a unique experience.
Everything afterwards is basically a Final Fantasy game but with autism and cartoons randomly interfering in the typical convoluted FF storyline.

>>716522921
Also there really is nothing like the entire final act of 1. Everything from Hook’s ship to the final battle with Ansem is one of the best endgames I’ve experienced.

>>716523000
i'd argue kh2 had a lot more ff meets disney going on
>auron
>riku paine yuna
off the top of my head

>>716523052
I remember as a kid being freaked out by the h r giger like ansem "ship" lmao

>>716522782
I quite like Twilight Town but this vibe is hard to beat

>>716523000
>Everything afterwards is basically a Final Fantasy game but with autism and cartoons randomly interfering in the typical convoluted FF storyline.
Not KH3, that game had... 0 FF characters.

>>716523000
>Everything afterwards is basically a Final Fantasy game but with autism and cartoons randomly interfering in the typical convoluted FF storyline
Yeah? Where's the FF characters then? Even BBS just had Zack at most. 3 had literally no FF characters doing jackshit.

>>716523194
It's very disney imo, warm, fuzzy, comfy most KH1 songs are very nostalgic and memorable. I can barely remember something from KH2 besides the standard combat music i guess

>>716506204 (OP)
The emotional connection is religious.
A whole generation of 90s children grew up on Disney animated feature films.

The story is about a teenage boy thrust into adulthood, forced to deal with a harsh new world and grow, in the context of the moral parables that he was raised within.

The timing was powerful, and visually it was cool.
Also gay/sensitive young man undertones even in the first.

Heat-seeking missile to the emotional core loser disney kids born before 1995.

>>716523261
>. 3 had literally no FF characters doing jackshit.
such a terrible choice when kingdom hearts was THE game to combine disney characters and final fantasy characters

>>716523203
>>716523261
Pretty sure he meant in terms of what the story is like not the literal actual FF characters

>>716523307
Honestly a lot of games had this "angsty teenager growing up" theme back in the day, i rarely see it in games now.

t. found Squall from FF8 to be "exactly like me" lmao

>>716522994
I mean, the power of friendship is a textbook anime theme, but KH1 handles them in a more fairytale/classic children’s novel kind of way.

KH1 in general has this whimsical and dream-like fairytale vibe that the other games just don’t come close to

>>716522908
Ansem's reports detailing his beginnings as a wide-eyed, optimistic scientist who was friends with Mickey and gradually giving way to his misanthropy was one of my favorite aspects of KH1.

>>716523000
It is astonishing how well it is able to capture the feelings of both properties. Even getting to Ansem, he isn’t just brown Sephiroth; his proportions are toonier in places to match the Mad Doctor, and he has Mickey’s color scheme.

>kh1
>starts with an electronic banger
>kh2
>starts with an electronic banger
>kh3
>starts with the most dogshit wub wub dubstep bullshit song
why

>>716523475
>and he has Mickey’s color scheme
you just blew my mind anon holy shit

>>716523203
this >>716523393

They used actual.FF characters until they had a original cast of FF-like characters, but they can't do away with the Disney stuff because it's essential to the identity of the series.

WHEN YOU WALK AWAY

YOU WON'T HEAR ME SAY

PLEEEAAAAAAASE

OH BABY DON'T GO

>>716523420
Only games about being a dad now.

>>716523601
I guess, we're not that angsty, lonely teenager anymore eh

>>716523508
skrillex is why

>>716523582
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Hl3W4HB254

>>716523631
Nah, we definitely still are.

>>716523730
Fair, otherwise we wouldn't be posting about Kingdom Hearts. Alright, gonna listen to KH1s OST now.

>>716520753
what am I looking at

>>716523420
It fell out of popularity because a coming of age story about teenagers becoming adults is too sincere and emotional for the ironic Whedon-esque writers who took the reins of media in the 2010s.


Also, having replayed FF8 recently, I’m convinced that many plot elements from KH1 were borrowed from it. Seifer is a dead ringer for Riku, as is Ultimecia’s Castle and the Time Compression for Hollow Bastion and End of the World.

>>716523582
HOW DID I LIVE

IN A KINGDOM OF THIEVES

>>716523829
For sure, i remember being extremely excited seeing Squall in KH1 talking and all. That shit made my day.

>>716523535
I have my issues with how later KH integrates (or doesn’t) its Disney and FF motifs, but the original Xehanort’s personality and design isn’t one of them. I fucking love that cocky, toony old guy. There are other things like Land of Departure being reassembled like a Disney projector show in 3 that are neat too.

>>716506204 (OP)
That's why it has become a trainwreck once it left the original premise and focused on its convoluted original characters and plot.

this is the problem

>>716523805
they reused the attack combo from ansem on the sorceror nobodys
all nobodys are directly inspired by one of org members
and sorcerors are inspired by ansem

probably mostly just asset recycling, but maybe a subtle way to warn/prepare players about his attack patterns, you'd have run into a few just before this fight

>>716506204 (OP)
I'm just holding onto KH1 and 2.

I don't care that much about anything else in the series, okay?

>>716524069
based

>>716506572
You grew out of your rebellious phase. Brooding and beam clashes no longer speak to your poor tortured spirit that mom and dad just don't understand. Disney is no longer retarded and gay, you appreciate a cohesive, well put together story and the RPG in ARPG rather than an AMV rave show.
I do like 2 by the way it's just fun to prod it's frothing lunatics.

>>716506204 (OP)
Never played it

>>716524138
you should
>>716524113
kh2s fov needs to be lowered

>KH thread
>it's just 1fags and 2fags bitching at each other

>>716524290
as long as we agree that both games are kingdom hearts
everything that followed and everything inbetween isnt kh

>>716524008
>all in on spirits within
what was their problem

>>716524290
I like both of them and think both games do something better than the other

>>716524374
I liked the movie

I have the Greatest Hits PS2 version I'm about to replay.
Wish I had Final Mix but Jap only.

>>716506204 (OP)
>how?
sovl

I haven't played 3 yet, but I thought 0.2 was pretty good for what little it is. Will I enjoy 3? I hated all the bloat with everything BBS onwards.

KH is one of my favourite vidya franchises, but I’ve never seen a single Disney movie aside from Fantasia (which was kino). What Disney movies are worth watching based on this? I already know the plots of most of them thanks to KH.

>>716506204 (OP)

To be fair the IP did end up as a trainwreck so it´s probably safer to say the original was a fluke.

>>716506572

Well, if i had to guess i´d say you were a PS1/PS2 FF fan and originally thought the original game too simple or even childish. After growing up however you realized, as most of us, that that simplicity in design was the key (pun intended) to the game´s soul and that the rivalry between Sora and Riku over Kairi´s heart was just narratively stronger than a cooler than the organization more abstract goals.

Combat was really better in KH2 though.

>>716524517
>looks like shit
>retarded non memorable theme
>bling bling wahoo disney attraction super powers
>no final fantasy characters
>even more retarded story than all past kh games combined
i meaaaaaaan

>>716524338
theres only one game inbetween and it does give us
>incredible official spritework
>help clarifying some of the ridiculous shit in 2
>some continuity of KH1's tone

might as well let it tag along behind
it's short anyways

>>716524290
1 is sovl kino
2 is chuuni action combat kino
3 is forgettable but has based dlc bosses

>>716524517
it has its own bloat but at least there's no command deck

>>716524517
3 was very disappointing as a hardcore fan
but its reasonably fun
much less combat depth than 2, and almost no soul remains

>>716524538
>What Disney movies are worth watching based on this?
literally every movie thats being referenced in the games?
>>716524594
>>help clarifying some of the ridiculous shit in 2
eeehhhh
>on the way to finding mickey and riku they somehow stumble upon this weird castle
>sora loses memories when fighting the baddies
>sora agrees to sleep for a long time to regain memories
kinda shit story famlam

>>716524374
Because they got enamoured with their CG tech and the fact they revolutionised vidya storytelling made them wonder if they could do the same for Hollywood too.

FF games are technically the earliest example of movie games, even though they’re still undeniably games.

>>716524517
As a germ i am beyond mad they didn't localize the game. Soras voice is iconic and Rikus voice in german is the same Voice Anakin Skywalker has in all movies/series.

>>716524374
>>716524406
hubris

>>716524667
>literally every movie thats being referenced in the games?
Except Chicken Little

>>716524756
It was a cool tech-demo-movie and at the time looked pretty good. But the story and characters. Jeez.

>>716524667
>kinda shit story famlam
It's probably Sora's coolest moment aside from flying in Neverland, or winning his keyblade back.

Has his memories directly fucked with.
Has no clue what's going on.
Makes it through solely by trusting the intuition in his heart.
Is forgotten.

Riku Replica has some great stuff too.

Tragic identity stuff that really helps make Sora seem like less of a goofy douchbag in 2 relative to Roxas.

>>716524290
Okay wise guy, what do you want it to be about? MoM is Demyx? The script is in the box? Missing Link dying was intentional?

>>716521731
>>716521403
KH1 is pretty straightforward but starting in 2 they start adding purposely confusing narrative elements like
>The Ansem you defeated in 1 wasn't actually Ansem, it was Ansem's apprentice's heartless
>Now you gotta fight that apprentice's nobody
>What's a nobody you ask? Well it's a being without a heart, but not a heartless, but it is created when a heartless forms and if you kill a heartless and its nobody then that somebody will be reformed
>Light = good, dark = evil, but now we have this thing called nothing that we refer to in a really awkward way with ambiguous goals and desires
>Did we mention that nobodies are bodies without hearts and they don't have emotions even though they apparently do but they're actually just pretending or just remembering their old emotions but they aren't real except in FM they actually do have hearts and Xemnas was just lying to them for the lulz
>Behold, Kingdom Hearts! Wait, it's actually just a giant heart in the sky? Not the door from the first game? Alright well what does it do? I dunno lol
>By the way the real Ansem is here and Riku turned into Ansem (the eviler one who wasn't actually Ansem) even though Riku defeated the extra Ansem (again the eviler one) in the spinoff game that still resided in his heart because of darkness

>>716524883
it's fine for what it is
still it was a dumb idea to make it gba? only and basically mandatory for the story

>>716524951
already making my head hurt lol

>>716524827
People often say that once Squaresoft became Enix, they started prioritising spectacle over story, but honestly, the signs of that were there even before that. Starting with FFVII, there was an increasing amount of spectacle creep with each game. I like that era of FF, but Square’s fetish for high budget CGI cutscenes was evident even there.

>>716524951
>The Ansem you defeated in 1 wasn't actually Ansem, it was Ansem's apprentice's heartless
I still don't get what the point of this was

>>716506572
As a kid my favourite was KH1. As an adult it's still my favourite.

>>716525142
they looked cool though

>>716525150
It's like how Kojima made the Big Boss in Metal Gear 1 actually be a fake copy of him from MGSV all to explain how he somehow showed up again after getting blown to bits in an 8-bit game.

They could've banked on the 2000s nostalgia with KH3

They could've made million millenials cry and made a really heartfelt KH3

But no they had to cater towards zoomers

>>716524951
The writing is so juvenile and contrived starting from that point, instead of the original's charming and childish

>>716525194
Oh, they definitely did, and a lot of the CG works actually holds up to this day. One of the reasons that 8 is one of my favourite FFs is because of the gorgeous CGI backgrounds and cutscenes, and also how seamless the transitions from cutscene to gameplay are. It makes it feel immersive while also being stylish. It did have consequences though, like them having to cram the final dungeon onto a separate disk and removing access to the overworld just so they could have enough space for the ending FMV.

>>716525526
Man, you just made me heavily nostalgic for FF8.
Fuck, downloading the ISOs on my Deck now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3yngLPkA2U

>>716525150
To explain DiZ and this give us a god-tier character with a god-tier voice performance by Christopher Lee.

>>716525526
>>716525637
i miss final fantasy being an actual grand game every time a new one released

>>716524885
Shitposting and memes, with occasional lore speculation, of course

Can we all agree anything past this is garbage at least

>>716525150
We needed our own Akatsuki/Espada shut up

>>716525808
recoded is a fun game

>>716524951
It gets so much more retarded after KH2. DDD sets up time travel so the old guy from BBS can pluck a few versions of himself from various points in time to fulfill a prophecy where 13 bad guys fight 7 good guys and this somehow creates the ultimate power in the form of the X-blade. Even with this weapon he jobs to Sora and then reveals he was just gonna use it to restore peace and balance.

>>716525945
what the fuck

>>716525808
No

>>716525808
>Guise let's fucking compromise and decide on a single narrative for the hivemind already PLEASE!!!!

>>716519310
True

>>716518314
>DDD and 3 are arguably the closest to KH1 level design since KH1
And yet they made interacting with it not even a suggestion with flow motion

>1st game
The Keyblade is a magical weapon that only appears for one destined to wield it and of a firm heart. It is the *key* to the problems in Kingdom Hearts.
>everything else
everyone's got a keyblade now because FF8 had gunblades yknow...

>>716525738
Square had the whole industry by the balls in the 90s and early 2000s. Similar to how Rockstar and From Software has it by the balls now.

Modern Square is ironically like modern Disney— A dying star surviving off of nostalgia and crippling themselves with incompetent business decisions and hubris. It’s a shame, because their run from the 90s until about 2006 was absolutely immaculate and unlike almost any other dev.

>>716526050
Games should have storylines that make sense and endings that leave the fans satisfied that the story is fully resolved.

>>716526171
there were 3 keyblades in kh1 with at least one known method for making more

>>716525526
Uematsu-sama was also a great part of the soul from this era of FF.
Thing is, if you are familiar with the Japanese mentality, you'll understand that we are never going back to these old days, I'm afraid.
But it's not all gloom and doom, FF may not return to what it was ever again, but new IP will be born in the future, I'm sure of it.

>>716526203
They should get the sole credit for the success of JRPGs in the West, which come and go in popularity but occasionally there's a huge release (Persona 5). FF7 is an achievement and genuinely a 10/10, I replayed it recently and confirmed it yet again. They tried to one-up FF7 multiple times and each game was a big success even if not to the same success as 7... then they made a fucking online game and the rest is history.
FF became irrelevant in the JRPG scene, to the point where even FF7's long-awaited remake is met with apathy.

>>716526416
i've read the expediton 33 devs made a trip to square enix for some consultant work
maybe just maybe things might get steered into a better direction
but i'm not hopeful

>>716526203
Their ambition to have the most impressive games came to bite them in the ass as tech evolved, everything started taking way too long and a clear vision got lost. But it's true Sqex has been mismanaged quite a lot as well over the years, very messy development for many games to this day.

>>716526565
they'll release another shallow RPG with either insufferable or boring characters and a parry system this time

>>716526654
:(

>>716506204 (OP)
The first game has more deph in its combat then any souls game which is hilarious.

>>716526203
>SE will never be good again
>we'll never get another Disney Renaissance

>>716526565
I see many hyping that up but it won't come from spending a few hours with the guys from Sandfall.
They just did a major restructure and are changing how they want to approach game releases but whether that ends up being fruitful will take some years to find out.

>>716526513
I do think the reverence for FFVII hurt them a bit. We really didn’t need a sequel movie and two prequel games. Ever since Sakaguchi left, it seems like they just want to make FF7 again. Compare that to FF8, which had the balls to be radically different from 7 even at the risk of controversy because they just wanted to try something different.

This is why I respect Nomura and think he’s one of the only genuine auteurs left at the studio, because KH is HIS franchise and he does whatever the fuck he wants with it, which leads to a lot more experimentation and creativity. I dread when Nomura retires because KH will probably become even more corporate and soulless.

>>716526791
Not hard when Souls games don’t even have combos or consistent hitboxes.

I do find it weird that people cream themselves over Souls when it’s basically just a very watered down KH1.

>>716525945
lmao and the fans eat up this shit

>>716526273
Any particular reason why you think they should? No because you're not programmed for reasoning.

>>716526565
I mean, doubtful, but not impossible.
Enix is quite western oriented after all, it's not like they would refuse to take inspiration from western game devs.
The major problem with nips is that they don't perceive failure the same way we do, if they consider their recent FF as failure to begin with.
For example, in an interview with FFX devs (when they were transitioning, introducing a lot of new blood into the team), they said that they wanted the new blood to be able to make their own FF without being crushed by the expectation and weight of the success from previous FF.
They respect the old guard and their success, but they want to make their own things (the crap they shat since FF12, mostly action driven slop), and the old guard doesn't want to pressure them into following into their steps.
It's a complex shitshow of nips mentality, work ethic, and what have you that result in what we have today with FF.
It's not that they are shit devs, it's just their mentality leading to that result.
I mean, look at what that faggot from KH made with FF7R and you'll have your answer about what is going on : he wanted to make his own thing, not be under the shadow of the old guard who made FF7, so he decided to pull the rug and make a shitty commentary about it and the pressure from the fan on his team, some bullshit about fighting destiny and what people expect from you, etc...

>>716526565
Forspoken 2 here we go

>>716527314
Most insane post I've seen all month

>>716527314
When you put so much time and effort into something, it feels good when it pays off in a satisfying way.

It's lame if you never get a conclusion or any answers because the devs were so busy trying to complicate their own universe that they never realized their company could cancel their games whenever (like Konami and Metal Gear).

>>716526273
the story wasn't fully resolved. The moment Diz said Roxas was half of Sora's power and nobody's were explained it immediately opened the door for fully formed Ansem. The bullshit they did afterwards is a totally different issue. Pete and Maleficent where still meddling too, which ironically is still going on

Org 13 bullshit ruined this series.

>>716524509
final mix is on steam

>>716506572
I like the gameplay of KH2 and beyond, but I feel like something was lost from KH1. There's something to be said about having to touch the ground most of the time. Also the story felt a lot more mysterious and precarious. Sora didn't know where the fuck he was or where he was going, nor was he out to fight some guy who is actually 13 guys. He was just trying to find his friends.

Also, an assortment of unique evil cartoon bad guys huddled around a small table in a dark room > a bunch of dudes in the same outfit sitting far apart in tall chairs in a big empty void with mall lighting.

>>716524046
KINO

>>716528479
Didn't they have to rebuild the game code entirely because they lost it all?

post your favorite KH memes RIGHT NOW

>>716528489
>an assortment of unique evil cartoon bad guys huddled around a small table in a dark room
When I was a kid playing KH1 for the first time, the scene that got my so hyped to play the rest of the game was where they all talk for the first time around the table in shadows and I could identify all of the villains from the Disney movies I watched due to them all having the exact voices and mannerisms you'd expect.

Seriously felt like all the bad guys from my childhood had teamed up to stop me.

>>716528341
Nah Org 13 was cool. What ruined it was Xehanort bullshit

>>716506572
You became a bearded balding contrarian redditor who likes shitty games purely because of nostalgia

>>716506572
I never played them as a kid. As an adult I played the PS2 version of KH1 and the remakes of the rest. For me it's hard to beat KH1. I think it's one of the purest and most joyful game experiences I've had. I wish more people were making games like it today.

>>716524290
yup. pretty much

>>716525150
It's unclear what order Nomura came up with the story in.

KH2 in particular seems bewildering because it's pretty much filler.

>>716530783
obviously before release of KH1
he made deep dive and that talks about nobodies
theres also the experiment chamber in the end of the world

>>716519887
the level design in KH1 is fucking garbage and the worst part of the game. what kind of retarded nostalgiafagging is this?

>>716530783
every single KH game is just 80% filler

>>716524951
KH2 was such a disappointment for me. I must have been 12 when I first played KH1 and loved it. I was hyped as fuck when I saw the first trailer. Then the plot just fucking sucked, the disney worlds weren't as interesting and even the combat sucked. I was basically just mashing X and there just wasn't any fun in it. I fucking hate KH2 and don't understand why fans loved this shit.

KH1 is just as confusing to me at times

To this day I still don't 100% understand how Riku's possession worked with Ansem taking over his body, why he got sent to the World of Darkness if Ansem was using his body to fight in the Final World, wtf the Final Keyhole the princesses opened up was supposed to be if it didn't lead to Kingdom Hearts OR the Final World, or exactly why Sora ended up where he did instead of just going back to his home like Kairi/everyone else did after the Heartless was defeated.

I know other games up the ante significantly but it's not as though Kingdom Hearts ever made perfect sense in the first place.

>>716531889
>The combat sucked. I was basically just mashing X
This is how boring people play. You just mash X and run away and cure when you take a hit. You can do the same thing in any KH game. When you actually learn the mechanics it becomes incredibly fun.

>>716531889
KH2 to me was about as much of a let-down as the official announcement of Epic Mickey was after how hyped /v/ got over the concept art.

>>716532375
What's the point if the game is piss easy and mashing X is more than enough to finish the game?

the greatest video game ever made

>>716532741
>what's the point of having fun?
Go play critical mode and tell me how well your strategy works. You'll just complain that it's boring and you die a lot because you refuse to engage with the game mechanics.

>>716531889
>the plot just fucking sucked, the disney worlds weren't interesting and even the combat sucked. I was basically just mashing X and there just wasn't any fun in it

but enough about KH1

>>716506572
First game is objectively better, on a fundamental level, and the second one the dialogue started catering to the cringy tumblr fans.

>>716533435
>cringy tumblr fans
In 2005?

>>716525945
Time travel was in 2. It talks about Seeker of Darkness Ansem traveling back in time.

>>716533995
>It talks about Seeker of Darkness Ansem traveling back in time.
wtf I don't remember that

>>716531481
honestly, everyone having a shared multiverse thing going on makes KH not so special. at the time it was pretty insane to even imagine and the result ended up being great.

>>716529869
>>716532872
I feel extreme sadness every single day of my life knowing that I will never experience such an incredibly special, otherworldly, magical, intense, emotional, and transcendent experience like playing Kingdom Hearts 2 for the very first time on PlayStation 2 back in 2005 desu

>>716534870
i've played through it twice this year already and i'm sure i'll do it again soon
it's the gift that keeps on giving

>>716532163
A lot of these are problems with being the very first game and Nomura not having a good idea of where he wanted the plot to go. However
>riku's possession worked with ansem taking over his body
Riku willingly gave himself to the darkness. Heartless are capable of possessing things. Ansem is a Heartless.
>why he got sent to the world of darkness if ansem was using his body to fight in the final world
Ansem kicked Riku's heart out of his body sometime after the Final Keyhole was opened. His heart ended up in the Realm of Darkness, and his body was still under Ansem's control. Sora in KH1 is proof that a heart can function without its body, and the heart will manifest the form of its body until it can get the original back. When Ansem was defeated, Riku's body snapped back to his heart in the Realm of Darkness.
>wtf the final keyhole the princesses opened up was supposed to be if it didn't lead to kingdom hearts or the final world
It unlocks the Door to Darkness, where the Kingdom Hearts of Worlds' Hearts is in the Realm of Darkness.
>exactly why sora ended up where he did instead of just going back to his home
He had unfinished business, to look for Riku. His heart led him to continue his journey.
I would say that you could reasonably infer the first and third point without playing any other game. The second point requires at minimum KH2 to fully understand. The fourth point would require playing the other games to understand just how much a heart can do.

Its shrimple really
KH1 has Billy Zane
KH2 doesn't
KH1 is superior

SAY FELLAS

>>716506572
KH1 is a bit rougher around the edges, but it has a lot of charm that the other games just don't have. Stuff like tech points and the interesting things you can do with magic, not to mention the significantly stronger level design.
I personally like KH2 more just for the more refined combat and controls, but there's stuff about KH1 that just isn't replicated anywhere else

>>716536618
What was his fucking problem?

>>716536618
why does he even wear the coat? you aren't fooling anybody with those big ass mouse ears sticking out mickey

>>716525150
I guess that's one way to introduce his teacher, but like why did they have to name them in this manner? Like couldn't Ansem the Wise just be named something else

>>716519019
Aqua is the wet blanket of the group.

>>716521403
nah you are crazy the only sane game is the first one after that they all go stupid harder than borderline anything else except xenogears and neon genesis evangelion... in a fucking mickey mouse game.

>>716524951
I don't know why you think Nobodies are so confusing
>When you succumb to darkness your heart splits off, falls to darkness, and becomes a heartless
>If you have a strong will the rest of you manages to survive as a nobofy
They explain this to you very early in the game too, long before the twist about Ansem being Xehanort's hearltess

>>716536865
The organisation can't sense him or something. DiZ explains it at the end of Riku's story in CoM

>>716538152
I'd make her blanket wet.