Why do so many game stories nowadays just focus around "gray morality" as opposed to just portraying good as being good and evil as being evil?

Your characters always just sort of have to be this weird amalgamation of beliefs that when you try to put together, they don't even make sense cause the character's entire personality then just boils down to "lel, i don't care, i'm a fence sitter or something like that." since the devs want to please everyone with their main character instead of just making them their own person with specific sets of beliefs and standards.

>>717153832 (OP)
Because true good is something they have no interest in showcasing. There always has to be a catch or some blemish for the whole thing. Fucking thing sucks

the alignment system in dnd has been disastrous for gaming

Pic unrelated, because Geralt is a subversion of the morally grey hero. While he preaches about neutrality he always ends up doing the noble thing; it's sort of the point of the character. He talks about being indifferent and staying out of matters but he cannot help himself from getting involved to help people out.

>>717153914
grow up

>>717153832 (OP)
Because good is dumb

>>717153832 (OP)
Because games have become more realistic, and reality is always complex, unlike your bing bing wahoo

>STOP TALKING ABOUT CENSORSHIP AND TARIFFS
No nice try glowie

>>717154164
the game is literally all about making "morally grey choices" and they even advertised it as such and made that specific part of it marketing material that people should be excited over.

>>717153832 (OP)
>clear good and evil
juvenile, amateur, simple
>morally gray
adult, professional, complex

>>717154164
Except for when he comits incest with his daughter.

>>717154414
fuck off satan

Shills found this thread quick. No, I don't care about your le global homo talking points of "complex moralities" to excuse the decay into societal apathy. Either give me a story with clear lines of good and evil, or fuck off back to that fat ass George RR Martin's subversion slop.

>>717154546
>shills
what is being shilled and who is paying for it retardbro?

>>717154414
>i need the story to be hyper complex for my low self esteem brain to think i'm smarter than i am for enjoyed something most people don't because it's overly complicated and delving into specific most people don't give a shit about
The best stories out there that have lasted for countless generations and became the highest selling ones out there have always been and will continue to be the simple ones that speak to the very heart of the person. It's why LoTR succeeded where as GoT crumbled and got raped by it's own retarded writing and egotistic, lazy author.

>>717153832 (OP)
Are they? I feel like we already passed this trend and now WRPG moral compass' are all inspired by r/politicalcompass tripe.

The world is full of gullible idiots who believe a good guy is good because he tells everyone he's good and evil guy is evil because he doesn't agree with the good guy. Instead of each man judging for himself what is good based on the actions and consequences. This in no small part thanks to decades of media telling people to just turn off their brain and trust in looks.

>>717155297
>are all inspired by r/politicalcompass tripe.
what the fuck does that even mean??

>>717155305
a truly good person wouldn't actually have to say how "good" there are, and actually don't either. they let their actions and way of living prove that to others, so i really don't understand still how people are willing to just trust people at face value like that who just say they are good but all they do is the opposite to it.

>>717153832 (OP)
Because portraying good as being good hurts evil. Being morally gray, or indifferent supports evil. So the evil wants to convince you that stories with unquestioned good vs evil are boring, or low quality. Modern writing exclusively means that the traditionally good guys must lie, cheat, steal, or purposefully fuck people over if their rules allow for it. Often while whitewashing the literal demons or traditionally evil murderrape races like orcs etc.

Just look at the responses in this thread.

>>717155345

>>717154546
It's not shills, it's just trolls like >>717154414 putting down some easy bait
I agree with you about wanting more clearly good and evil characters, especially in fantasy. Personally I blame millenials and genXers for this obsession with "moral grayness".

>>717153832 (OP)
Teenagers and young adults are the most avid gamers. They're in that sort of phase where they grew out of what they see as simplistic and condescending good vs evil morality teaching stories. They see morally gray characters and stories as profound and sophisticated. It makes them feel smart, which is really just a manifestation of how immature they still are. As you get older you care less about it and come to enjoy the pure simplicity of good vs evil again.

>>717155416
>i really don't understand still how people are willing to just trust people at face value like that
Because they want quick solutions and have no real stake in the matter. If and when things go wrong, they can just blame it all on the other person and move on to the next one, instead of admitting that their support was misplaced and the real villain was in the mirror all along.

Why do people always hold up LOTR as the prime example of good vs evil when it's filled with morally grey characters like Boromir, Denethor, Gollum, Beregond, etc. Then if you move outside into the Silmarillion there's even more like Turin Turambar and Feanor

You can always read and play children's Media :D, and there's nothing wrong with that.

>>717155946
Because the point of the morality in LotR isn't that the characters are 50% good or normal and 50% total scumbags, that's more what GoT does where everyone is a sociopath scheming or being degenerates all the times, and the few innocent people are abused because it's "realistic"
The point is that it defines good and evil and the main characters are wholly good, but even the best person can fall prey to the temptation of power, Boromir was not morally grey, he was tempted by the supernatural corruption of the Ring even though his soul and intentions were entirely noble. Gandalf explicitly adresses how even the most noble person will eventually be tempted and corrupted by the Ring.
It also doesn't depict the villains as morally grey. Everything that has an affiliation to Sauron or Morgoth is simply evil by nature with the exception of Saruman who used to be good but then was thoroughly corrupted

>>717155946
Because they are retarded.

If LOTR came out today, a small group of people would consider it woke
>White male protag dies
>Different races coming together
>Hobbits saving the day

>>717153832 (OP)
Millennial writing, its mostly post-irony coded since we can't enjoy things straight because of over-exposure of quest-genre and playing D&D games where you have to be goody-two-shoes or GM kicks you out of the party.

>>717156549
Yes because /pol/tards are mentally deranged, and like everything that comes out today it would be part of the culture war, both sides would try and claim the story as "based" or "woke"
But nothing in LotR is political, its moral values transcend this gay retarded political infighting the americans invented.

>>717156549
Most of the protags are European-ethnic wise with their cultures being basically Ethnically "European" rohan is the only one that's more like Mongolian (white-washed, let's face it.) and then there's that Roman-Stand-in Gondor. Also evil races are yellow skinned people who follow Sauron and the Goblins/Orcs are Green/Dark skinned, evil creatures are most black in color themes. So no, you can't claim any such "woke" ness from that shit.

>>717156824
And let's make one thing clear, Tolkien made the myths and stories as the new folklore for European people for Europeans, you may not have a claim over it if you are not European.

>>717156824
>It's not woke if they are all white

>>717156549
Good job exposing yourself as a politics obsessed moron, I guess. Explains a lot about the opinions you hold, too.

test

>>717153832 (OP)
Geralt never makes morally grey choices. He's always helping even without any compensation.

>>717153832 (OP)
>this weird amalgamation of beliefs that when you try to put together, they don't even make sense
That's basically everyone on the planet. There's maybe a handful of people whose behaviors and personality are totally integrated and consistent with some kind of value system, they might go by names like Buddha, and Jesus.

morality is for retards. that game is garbage.
im always right

>>717154424
That's the morally right choice.

>>717153832 (OP)
Because adult believing in black and white moralità are clinically insane

>>717153832 (OP)
It's to program you against having faith in objective good and objectively good people, so that when one shows up you and everyone else will doubt that person and eventually get rid of them. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

>>717153832 (OP)
you're hyperfocusing on the now and not the when that we came from, where morality was just "YOU ARE EITHER PURE GOOD OR PURE EVEIL, THERE IS NO INBETWEEN BECAUSE WE LITERALLY DO NOT HAVE SPACE ON THE DISK TO PROTRAY THAT"

think back to any PS1 or PS2 game that had some kind of morality system, it was always the most binary shit ever and there was ZERO nuance

>>717160720
>erhm, rape can actually be okay when... or uhm.. wel... because... uhhhhhh... it just can be, okay????
>now let me fucking rape someone cus i can't get pussy in any other normal way

Go play switch kiddie game if you want black and white dumb nigger manchildren

>>717159446
i mean that's why you guys do, every thing is humiliation ritual or subversion of some kind

>>717160739
the good news is a society like that is bound to collapse eventually, leaving its supporters to drown in their own shit. no system can tolerate 100% corruption.

>>717161104
you are a low iq retard.

what's objectively good?

>>717153832 (OP)
Because non-retards tend to prefer stories that are less simplistic.
Obviously it's overdone, but pretending that morally grey characters are bad is just retard shit.

>>717161203
yeah you're seething at me for exposing the exact argument you were making and now you're mad at how retarded it sounds coming out your own mouth. get fucked and keep coping.

>>717161261
>Because non-retards tend to prefer stories that are less simplistic.
read >>717154642 and don't ever post again or reply since you don't know what you're talking about and need to grow up

Because it's the edgy and hip thing to do now. Normies think it's really deep and mature.

>>717161239
God.

>>717153832 (OP)
Because the world tends to be a much more confusing place. Also, not sure why you picked witcher for this. Morrowind is an older game and does the same thing on a political level.

>>717153832 (OP)
I think it's because everyone wants to copy game of thrones' success from last decade.
funny thing is, that show still had clearly defined sympathetic heroes and detestable villains. the villains just won more. I've yet to see a properly grey story with an impartial POV.

>>717153914
You don't know what "true good" is. True and pure goodness literally cannot exist in this flawed and incohate world

>>717161263
but morality is subjective
rapist thinks he was right
Hitler thought he was right
and same or any terrible or good person through out the history.

>>717161425
>cannot exist
Jesus. And they killed Him for it.

>>717154458
Christianity's whole schtick is the idea of forgiveness and redemption. It also says that all humans are fundamentally sinful and true goodness lies beyond this world.

>>717161381
what is god? and you follow his teaching?

>>717161163
There you go, now you want to paint me as the bad guy. Because I must be not only a pol fag, but also a goddamn evil chud, because these boogeymen are following you everywhere. Can't be that you preemptively crying wolf all day is annoying, right?

You are so retarded. You're thinking in black and white irl while we're discussing fictional media.
Genuinely kill yourself, because there's no fixing someone as mind rotten as you.

>>717161451
>if i think i'm right, then it means i am, lol
morality is objective just as rape is objectively as bad. there is no way you can twist that shit around to make it be a good thing.

>>717161315
Nah.
>>717154642
>The best stories out there that have lasted for countless generations and became the highest selling ones
Trite for the masses is always going to be retarded slop.
>It's why LoTR succeeded where as GoT crumbled
LOTR succeeded and lasted so long because it's an incredibly well thought out epic of worldbuilding that made up a man's entire life.
It's also asinine to pretend LOTR is in any way simple or just pure good vs evil. Obviously the overarching war is good against evil, but the actual story is utterly full of individuals making harder choices about what they consider "good" from their individual perspective. See: basically everything involving Theoden, Denethor/Faramir/Boromir, or the Elves in general.
Actually read it some time before you try to use it as retarded cope for getting mad at scary stories that make you feel impotent.

>>717155454
You don't know what true goodness is. To you, it probably just involves genociding fantasy races

>>717154642
>>717161535
Also portraying GoT as anything but hyper successful is fucking retarded and its success undermines your entire argument.

>>717153832 (OP)
I hate Geralt, I'm glad I didn't stay up all night yesterday to watch SC6 EVO grand finals and be disappointed to see Incendiate win with that boring character against the exact same guy playing 2B AGAIN.

>>717161425
Cop-out.

>Jews and hipsters invented morally gray characters
even Paradise Lost (1674) portrays Adam and Eve as morally gray both before and after eating the apple

>>717161568
Projection.

>>717154458
>preaching a lack of understanding of your fellow man
>preaching moral absolutism and fear
There is only one satanic poster here, and it isn't him.

>>717161514
i am saying you are a moron for thinking black and white

>>717156485
>but even the best person can fall prey to the temptation of power, Boromir
This is virtually no different from something like game of thrones except there the temptations are much more cruel and wicked. It's not about percantages or whatever. Christianity believes that humans are fundamentally sinful and most christians use that as an actual crutch because they are too weak incontinent to become buddhist monks.

>>717161525
Is theft bad? What if you're stealing from someone who stole from you? Or stealing from those with a surplus to provide for those in need?

>>717161469
That says everything about humanity. A dude shows up preaching peace and love and tolerance and understanding, and what happens to him? He gets nailed to a fucking stick. Every time someone like that shows up, humanity violently rejects him. And look what's happening to the world. Virtues are becoming sins and sins are becoming virtues. This world has one where good is punished and evil is rewarded. This is the world humanity really wanted all along: a world where only the biggest, strongest and meanest bullies can thrive.

>>717161315
>The best stories out there that have lasted for countless generations
Like, what? lotr? The bible?
Seriously, generate a list of the greatest novels of the past 150 years, you'll get like dostoevsky, kafka, woolf. You are a just a child who is repulsed by the idea of any sort of introspection or reflection. Acting like a simplistic view of good vs evil storyline is some secret sauce for a generation defining work is retarded.

>>717161694
That argument just doesn't work considering what you posted.

>>717161761
*this world had become one

>>717161610
Retard
>>717161638
>n-no u
You were the one whinging about some races not fitting neatly into some dnd alignment category which conveniently justifies killing them every time without any damage to the conscience. Because (simulated) killing is fun.

>>717153832 (OP)
>enter a dark fantasy setting like The Witcher
>its morally grey (as is usual in dark fantasy)
>no way, how can this be?!
Have you considered looking in a different subgenre if you good vs evil is what you´re after?

>>717161801
all i said was morality is subject
can you list things that are objectively good and objectively bad?

>>717156549
If it came out today most of the cast would be brown

It's funny because when videogames DO have an objectively evil character, /v/ will just go into the comments being like "you know he's right though".

See, fallout: NV, Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance

>>717161469
Jesus was a God pretending to be a human, probably because he was bored. Also, christianity posits that humans are fundamentally corrupt and sinful and must purge themselves with great effort. They also believe that the world is fallen. And you guys moan about moral greyness?

Test

>>717161483
>what is god?
God is good. He is just, merciful, loyal and truthful, compassionate. Literally everything there is a person should strive to be in terms of character, He already is, and we are meant to be that way as well since He literally made us in His image.

>and you follow his teaching?
Yes, I do my best to. However we can't flawlessly obtain His character by ourselves alone since there are times we will still be tempted to engage in things and behaviors we shouldn't, or we fall into them due to other things, but the important thing is to just not give up when you fail. Pick yourself up again, confess to God or simply just talk to him about how the things you have done or said made you feel, and that you know they are wrong, then ask Him to forgive you and to just bear with you through the tough times until you better manage to adjust your way of being to the things He actually wants of you and knows would ultimately make you be a better person, even if it's hard and takes a long time to get there.

>>717161819
>Retard
We don't sign or posts on this site.

>average morally gray story

>>717161535
Trite is an adjective, not a noun.

>>717161635
how the fuck were adam and eve considered "morally grey" before the fall? they weren't.

>>717153832 (OP)
In the real world we do not universally agree on what is and isn't moral.

Where are these supposedly morally grey stories you guys are playing? Games are super immature and almost always do black and white except black has a sad backstory

>>717161954
>if one side is black it make other side automatically white.

>>717161932
>Literally everything there is a person should strive to be in terms of character
It's a shame that christians almost never seem to live up to it. Why npt become a monk and dedicate your whole life to God?
>However we can't flawlessly obtain His character
It's almost like you are morally grey or imperfect or something.
>by ourselves alone
Siddartha Gautama.
>>717161934
Retard

>>717161954
sorry, posted the wrong image

>>717154414
More like Bullshit.

>>717161994
They ate the apple with good intentions. Eve wanted a better life, and Adam wanted to be with Eve. Their intentions were good, but their actions were wrong.

>>717161898
“Good” characters fight to protect the status quo while “evil” characters fight to change it. Considering the state of the real world, can you blame people for wanting to burn everything down?

>>717153832 (OP)
gnostics want to escape the duality prison, so they destroy everything dualistic like good and bad, male and female. notice how they casually swap the main protagonist for a girl, that can do everything a man can do probably as usual. the binary genders working together, seem to be a main enemy, anything natural and earthy is bad for some reason

>>717153832 (OP)
Becuase the glowie antifa woke leftist dem racially ambiguos Joos in the Evil and Corrupted Guberment want (You) to lose your moral compass and destroy le Aryan race or something.
Now that you had your hit of dopamine reading the phrase above, is it really this ground-breaking that different people have different moral compasses?

>>717161932
God sounds like a glorified Mary Sue

>>717162009
You are making the mistake of thinking actions and not convictions are good or evil.
Bad things happening to evil people are good, good things happening to evil people are bad.

>>717162232
You have no idea what gnosticism is. You are one of those retard christians who believes in contrived conspiracy theories that blame dead religious creed (who were christian, no less). The proof is in your thinking that gnostics were anti-dualists when they were even bigger dualists that orthodox christians

>>717162162
>sentient being
ah, so a demon then.
there are no other "beings" other than humans on this earth. the others are spirits which are either purely good (angels) or purely evil (demons).

>>717162308
fuck off satan

Speaking of morally gray characters, I really liked Parasyte's approach
starting with a clear evil vs one of the good ones, but gradually blurring the lines. By the end,
with that ending
the human working for the parasites questions whether humans have more of a claim to the earth than any other creatures.

>>717153832 (OP)
Because
>just portraying good as being good and evil as being evil
Is gay shit that's not related to reality and exclusively belongs in educational stories for pre-school children.
If you want to write anything serious, you turn to realism.

>>717162324
what about animals? are they evil? if not why are we allowed to hunt them down and treat em like shit

>>717153832 (OP)
because retards see ganondorf and think "but why is he doing this" "videogames have bad writing" instead of "that guy looks cool"

>>717162308
>rewrites the entirety of the bible and its story to better fit whatever their own human mind want to hear instead of the truth Jesus spoke
>"YALL! GNOSTICS ARE ACTUALLY VALID AND SHIT, EVEN MORE SO THAN THE LONG STANDING RELIGIONS OF THE ANCIENT TIMES!! OOOH LAAAAAWDY!!!"

>>717162324
Do animals not have souls?

Why are we pretending like "morally grey" is some kind of new thing, when its just not? Simplistic good vs. evil stories are basically just a staple of childrens media or stories that were never meant to really be taken that seriously (pulp, summer blockbusters, etc.)

Videogames are just catching up now, with bigger budgets and much attention to the actual stories now.

>>717162447
Ah yes, who could forget such educational children's stories as The Lord of the Rings :^)

>>717153832 (OP)
The industry grew up while you didn't.

>>717153832 (OP)
Same reason they obsess over deconstructing older media that does portray simple good vs. evil stories; they're a bunch of atheist commie pieces of shit who don't believe in good and evil.

>>717162520
Can you name examples of both simplistic child games and mature realistic writing?

>>717153832 (OP)
>muh morality in made up stories

>>717162524
tlotr isn't black and white

>>717162605
>simplistic child game
Donkey Kong Bananza
>mature realistic writing
Expedition 33

>>717162502
They don't rewrite anything. They interpret it in a way that makes the demiurge of the old testament a flawed or imperfect being. But Christ is still the true lord and son of the true God beyond this world. You guys just don't understand anything. You don't actually want to understand or learn anything.

>>717162593
was john Milton atheist commie?

>>717162657
It is extremely black and white.

>>717154642
LotR succeeded because it was inflated beyond any reason by angloid propaganda farts, and then lucked out with a high quality cinematic adaptation. It should be noted that many decades have passed between it being written and it becoming popular out of sudden.
As of the thing itself, it basically doesn't exist as a literary work. It is notable for constructing a highly complex and detailed fictional setting, but the story itself is way too basic even when compared to some young adult fiction pulp. Something like this being exalted as English literature classic is only a characteristic of English literature's absolute state.
Now start screeching over me insulting your sacred cow.

As of GoT, no matter what's your opinion on Grrm and the quality of his work, he is by definition much more of a writer than Tolkien ever was, because he at least tried to write actual realistic literature about actual people. Perhaps, he turned out to not be good enough to properly execute something so complex as a work he intended, but at least he tried.

>>717162452
>>717162504
Animals have "souls" but they don't have a living spirit with its own free will to make choices between engaged in good or evil deeds like humans do. They live based on instinct, not on what they know is good or evil to do. An animal can and will gut a man to death if it feels threatened, regardless of the situation. An animal can and will bite you if try to fuck with it while it's eating and it happens to be in a territorial stance since it doesn't see you as part of its pack. Animals act based on what their instincts tell them, and usually, you can train them to suppress said feelings for a while and have them look to you as the "leader of the pack" for confirmation on whether you want them to actually act on it or continue to suppress them.

so many gray stories exist because most real life stories are morally gray
you never really meet only good or only bad people. you meet people with some good and some bad within them

>>717153832 (OP)
>nooo, why is thing not black or white, you can't have differently slanted views on different issues
Based fucking retarded OP

>>717154414
Nah it's more like:
>clear good and evil
fantasy
>morally gray
reality

>>717162524
LotR is Harry Potter for people who think themselves above actual Harry Potter for some reason.
Seriously all those faggots masturbating to it as greatest literary achievement of humanity are fucking bizarre. Yes, I understand that despite their love for writing British are notoriously barren when it comes to highest level literary achievements, but there are still many works which warrant that pedestal much more, if you want to wank them for nationalism's sake.

>>717162842
Too bad everyone forgets this when discussing history and politics.

>>717162774
it's literally in the name of the genre itself. it's called "fantasy". people want to engage with and partake in a fantastical world that seems somewhat disjointed from ours but close enough that they can just lose themselves in it and keep their minds occupied from some of their worries and stress of the normal life.
making a "fantasy" story with as much 'realistic' stuff in it as possible completely defeats the purpose. might as well just change the genre to fiction them instead since you're not actually trying to make anything people fantasizes about.

>>717153832 (OP)
>just focus around "gray morality" as opposed to just portraying good as being good and evil as being evil?
Because not a really long time ago a certain amount of fantast and sci-fi writers (being relatedly educated and clever people) had decided to put some philosophy exercises in their books. Because those people were rather clever and educated, the result of this is a set of rather unusual thoughts, ideas and outcomes.
However, when other people had seen the success if those writers, this people (being much less educated, but rather cunning), had seen only external similarities, not the whole structure. So those people had decided to make cheap copies (shitty ones, as only external part had been copied). And a lot of people, who hadn't read original authors or hadn't got them because of the aforementioned education level being too low, had just followed the hype, giving a lot of money to the cunning ones.
Same thing as when a really good videogame is being made - and suddenly a lot of cheap shitty clones is being released, which don't have the core nature if the original neither the attention to details.

>>717162605
You aren't responding to a thing a single thing I said.
I said "children's media", e.g., harrypotter, narnia, redwall, dora the explorer

I never said anything about "mature realistic writing", I don't know where you got that from. I'm just saying, media intended for consumption for adults rarely falls into that.
I mean, look at every fantasy which has come out since LOTR. Critically acclaimed television like the Soprano and Mad Men.

The counterexamples are like action blockbusters which aren't really trying to have their story taken that seriously, just justify the action.

>>717162813
what about those videos where dogs pull people to help out their friend who fell in a well or their owner in medical need.
and one can argue you don't have free will either
it's just your genetics reacting to the environment and adjusting accordingly. If we pumped you full of testosterone, you'd make different choices

>>717163001
Cool. But it's nowhere close to serious literature. There is nothing bad about that, but it's a fact.

>>717162860
>i'm a retard who misses the point on purpose: the post

>>717162842
I dunno, man. I'd class the mother in Florida Project as 99% piece of shit.

>>717162992
reality is normies are too busy with their lives to care about any of that
if holocaust denial became the popular position they'll act that without any problems

>>717162992
Low IQ individuals always resort to moralizing and thinking they are the "good people". It used to be Christians, now it's Wokefags. And it's ALWAYS women.

>>717163001
You don't read books
It's obvious, because if you did, you would realize how retarded you are sounding because literally every popular fantasy series sans one is full of your hated moral ambiguity, an obvious example being the witcher novels.

>>717163050
They have feelings about people and one another to some extent, yes, but that's still not them acting based on free will of knowing they are doing something good by saving you. They still do it by instinct in the sense that they see you as their family, or part of their pack, even if you aren't necessarily the leader. But they see you as someone within their pack to look after, so their instinct is for the pack's preservation, so they will attempt to save you.

>>717153832 (OP)
because that's how it is in real life

are there games about being evil

>>717163274
tyranny

>>717163102
No, she loved her child dearly
more than many good mothers. She just wasn’t the brightest and had the privilege of someone caring about her. I know giving children free rein is anxiety inducing, but helicopter parenting isn’t better for them either

>>717163168
>everything that is currently being written is of the utmost dogshit quality possible since readers are retarded and have the lowest possible standards in existence, therefore that makes me in the right lol!!
you don't have human rights

>>717162162
It would help if the Eldar weren't monumentally stupid and full of themselves in most of their interactions with humanity, you know?

>>717163246
No, it's not.

It is very, very, very rare for there to be a genuine moral dilemma. That's why they always have to use ridiculous hypotheticals. Real world examples are few and far between.

>>717163367
It would also help if humans were just a little bit more humble and less prone to violence.
We all agree here that wh40k is a world with unclear morality, right? The empire is not objectively good and pure?

>>717163320
you okay big guy?
imagine crashing out this hard because someone called you out on your bullshit response acting like you have any familiarity in the genre of "fantasy", when you don't. Probably because you only know about harry potter and just consume videogames.

>>717163274
MY NAME

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/aug/17/the-100-best-novels-written-in-english-the-full-list

how many books in this list are black and white?

>>717163405
It's not. You just evidently haven't worked with children or consulted couples suffering from domestic troubles or ended up in or been witness to very difficult situations in your life.

>>717163448
fuck off you pseudo intellectual retard, nobody cares about this shit.

>>717163405
Here's one:
Should I support the current republican administration? One on hand, they are complicit in keeping the culprits of a billionaires club child rape ring out of justice's hands, but on the other hand, they routinely own the libs.

>>717163405
People still naturally act in both good and bad ways even when they’re not aware of it.

>>717163516
>i don't care about some of the most significant books
kys

>>717163516
I care about this shit. Not everyone is as dumb and simple as you

>>717163448
>Write a novel entirely dedicated to vicious mocking of amerimutts and angloids
>They praise it for many decades and still can stop jacking off to it, because it also involved child rape
Nabokov was a GOD

>>717163448
Who made this list? Which parameters/opinions had been used for making this list? Were only educated and experienced people asked or just general population? If only experts, how those experts are confirmed to be actually experts? Do you yourself consider this list to be correct one and why?

Why are the majority of the responses in here immediately seething and coping at the question?
It's almost like you feel called out for shitty people but then need to try and mask it via ridicule and gaslighting.

>>717155454
>Just look at the responses in this thread.
yeah this thread is just devolving into people shit flinging at each other and trying to argue why it's actually okay for them to just engaged in all sorts of garbage they know they shouldn't. lol.

>>717163538
~10% of the population are naturally good all the time. The remaining are only good when either a) it doesn't cost them anything or b) the severity of the consequences outweighs the risk. The latter are the scumbags running around pretending there is such a thing as "grey morality" when really all they're trying to do is rationalize their own bad behavior and thoughts in order to delude themselves into thinking "I'm a good person too."

>>717153832 (OP)
Americans.

>>717162162
the Eldar literally created a giant demon god of rape

>>717163536
There probably is no epstein list or specific files. Just ask yourself rationally fpr one second. Why would Trump promise to "release" them onlt to end up saying that they do not seem to exist and why didn't Biden do it for that matter? It's really quite bizarre how people just ended up uncritically and without evidence believing that Epstein, somehow, didn't kill himself. It was all pure hype fueled by irrational crowd psychology. A perfect counter to any argument for democracy, which votes in these people everyone hates anyway. I myself fell for this somewhat but upon reflection, there wasn't really any reason or evidence for it.

>>717163646
Because everyone is tired of you fart-huffing "trad" retards with your asiatic abrahamic "morality" pretending to somehow be very smart and wise,

>>717163631
no but there's no point in splitting hairs,
i am just asking if they are black and white

>>717163726
And then decided to correct themselves in an extreme way.

>>717162324
>>717162813
this

>>717154164
> He talks about being indifferent and staying out of matters but he cannot help himself from getting involved to help people out.
This is not a righteous character. He is the castrated male protag typical of western video games where he never does anything of his own accord, but is pulled into situations by others so the plot can progress. Goy of War is another good example.

The binary good/evil model is straight up NPC culture. Normative worldview.
Inversion is no better, deciding to be "evil" is still accepting the normative view.

What does elven morality look like?
-1 for using wood, +1 for cannibalism. That's a moral perspective which differs from our own.

>>717163695
This aptly describes most christians, who use forgiveness and God as a crutch.

>>717153832 (OP)
It's because people, especially western liberals like us, have hard time believing that other people could actually, genuinely believe in anything else. Take communism for example, commies were genuinely communists who believed in communism but they're often portrayed as doing it for power or other eccentric reasons instead of ideological ones.

So when people do bad things due to their unique belief system we end up being grey moralism when we don't take those people seriously.

>>717163749
The "Epstein list" is just a euphemism for all the names of people either complicit or active participants in child sex trafficking that has been hidden by the government. No one is talking about just releasing an actual simple list of names. They're talking about things like unredacted testimonies.

>>717162813
Souls are typically defined as the capacity for agency. Not living spirits. According to traditional christian and hebrew doctrine, they have living spirits and it's located in the blood.

>>717163726
the imperium literally created 9 out of 10 mortal chaos followers and every single demon primarch. Your point?

>>717163646
Welcome to the popular website full of people. Your first day in society? Remember, you have to be 18+ to post on this site. Not that this prevents various retards from appearing, but it reduced their amount drastically. Several years ago it had even helped keeping this place relatively interesting, unusual and helpful (if you could actually read and think), today it helps this place being slightly less shitty than more popular social media.

>>717163765
>Because everyone is tired of you fart-huffing "trad" retards with your asiatic abrahamic "morality" pretending to somehow be very smart and wise,

>>717153832 (OP)
Everybody loves cynicism nowadays. Anons love it, Reddit loves it, weebs love it. Nobody wants to believe in good guys or truly hate evil.

>>717162162
Eldars are worse than overwhelming majority of threats in the setting, because they are intelligent. Competing sentient species. Nothing is as bad as a competing species which are as smart as yourself or smarter.
If 40k was written with more common sense, the part of Imperium's inquisition dedicated to solving eldar question was larger, than all other parts combined.
>but they're le peaceful
Only because of their disadvantaged situation. If they would somehow turn it around, their attitude will change immediately.

>>717163805
>>717163912
without Slaanesh the other Chaos gods would have stayed in their autistic hugbox dimension

>>717153832 (OP)

Because grey is closer to real life. People in real life are not caricatures of good and evil.

>>717163845
No. Because a Christian acknowledges they've sinned. Most people don't. They attempt to rationalize the behavior in such a way they delude themselves into thinking they did nothing wrong, e.g. "It's not my fault I cheated on my husband. I only did it because he wasn't paying enough attention to me. It's his fault I cheated!" or "It's okay for me to rob that rich white man because his ancestors oppressed my ancestors!" and so on.

People genuinely hate the idea that someone might hold different opinions

>>717163941
Yes, as I've told, an asiatic subhuman who builds identity around asiatic goatfucker fiction. Know your place among browns and blacks.

>>717163969
remind me again how the war in heaven ended and what enslavers are

>>717163646
they hate when someone is objectively a better person than them
>nooooo my vidya character has to be an asshole because I am an asshole in real life

>>717163892
No. People definitely treat it as a real physical object with names on it to prove once and for all who is engaged in child trafficking. Other than that, simply engaging with a rich and influential and outgoing person like Epstein is hardly proof or evidence.

>>717163941
are people evil for not believing in Christianity
what children born in some island, how are they supposed to accept Christ and live by his teachings

>>717163835
>elven morality
they're humanoids, they operate on the same type of morality humans do. the term you're looking for is cultural norms. elves may act differently based on their culture norms, not on some different kind of "morality" since that can't be quantified in some kind of group that gets assign to specific races or whatever .

>>717164025
didn't the entire War in Heaven got retconned like 5 times already?

>>717163448
>The Great Gatsby
Read this for an English class. Good example of how people hold up boring shit stories just because they have a theme that’s anti patriarchy/capitalism/religion/colonialism/etc. Basically fancy propaganda for people who think they’re too intellectual to fall for propaganda.

>>717153832 (OP)
Because you hate virtue signalling.

>>717163974
>They attempt to rationalize the behavior
So do christians by appealing to their fallen nature to justify their redemption. You guys aren't that different from everyone else. The only people who seem to engage in serious spiritual purification are monks. When I ask christians why they don't become monks it's always because they want to play in the material world before they go to this supposedly better place in heaven.

>>717163448
>Lolita
>Ulysses
>The Great Gatsby
>True History of the Kelly Gang
>Lord of the Flies
dogshit pretentious taste

>>717164143
You sound like a dumbass

>>717164058
People are evil for committing evil acts. Plenty of non-Christians will be accepted into Heaven simply because they were genuinely good people who lived good lives which is inherently living a Christian life whether they knew it or not. The rest will burn in hell.

>>717164205
Not him but you aren't going to heaven if you don't accept Christ, sorry bro, being good is irrelevant

>>717164186
Lord of the Flies is one of the best works ever written in English, and not understanding why only exposes you as a retard.

>>717164186
aye you are not going to talk shit about my lad James Joyce

>>717163749
Bro everyone involved keeps changing their stories and acting extremely shady. It’s a fact that a cover up is happening, the questions are what is being covered up and why. People will assume the worst when there’s a lack of honesty and consistency in their government.

>>717164198
You sound like you are reacting to a punch in the gut. That's fine. Pain is good, makes you think and ponder.

>>717153832 (OP)
Jewish influence in investment firms directing funds to studios that write anti-white, anti Christian works. Concord? 400 Million have fun!

>>717160720
>Sacrificing your child to Moloch is morally grey because it'll increase your credit score by 3 points. Brb have to chop a guy's dick off for 211k, and fashion a tube for cocks out of his lower intestine..

>>717161635
You dipshit, no they are not. They're depicted as innocent, and childlike prior, and explicitly described as "Ashamed" and "filled with regret" after. You didn't read Paradise Lost, it's not sadboy devil either, you retard stop basing your opinion of literary works you didn't even read off of youtube essays.

>>717164241
Wrong.

>>717164272
The only painful thing here is ignorance.

>>717164242
Not to mention, it was written by a christian and is pregnant with christian symbolism.

>>717163828
you have no idea what you're talking about

>>717161469
*according to a book of notes written by a bunch of brown people who worshipped him 2000 years ago.

>>717161932
>He is just, merciful, loyal and truthful, compassionate
Children dying from cancer is so just.

>>717164058
All people are bad. There are no "good" people. Everyone deserves to burn in Hell forever. You will sin until the day you die, but you don't have to burn in Hell if you accept the fact that you don't deserve heaven and can't earn your way into heaven by being a "good" person and doing good deeds. That's the definition of self-righteousness. Only God is good, we can merely partake in His goodness. Because He is the source of everything that is good. The hearts of men are shit, but we can at least try to be the best we can, even when we fail.

also, what >>717164205 said.

Do you not think God already knows of those who may not be able to receive His message? He will find a way to either bring it to them in the future, when needed or required, or He will judge them based on how righteous they lived their lives. The servant who does bad without knowing it's actually bad will receive a lighter punishment than the servants who does something bad when he already knows it is bad.

>>717164270
Maybe. But it could also be nothing special. This whole affair could be just incredibly complex but ultimately mundane when compared to some of the other shit going on in the world.

>>717153832 (OP)
>the binary mutt brain cannot fathom the world isn't black and white
This is why youre still a nation of utterly cucked retards.

>>717164301
>You didn't read Paradise Lost
wrong i read that and cried
Adam knowingly did the bad thing, that's as gray as it gets

>>717153832 (OP)
Because otherwise it's just trite and boring. Novelty -- or lack of -- wears off quick.

I want the LARPers to leave.

>dark fantasy dystopia is morally grey
This is fine. Literally touching a hot stove and crying when you get burnt tier.
>modern DnD dungeon punk setting where everyone is a bright pink or blue human with horns and speaks like a modern day Californian is morally grey because "You don't know their background. They had a really hard life and need healing and respect!"
This is not fine
No I will not name ten games

>>717164302
Nope, Even Jesus told you that.

>>717164246
Stream of consciousness style writing is too schizophrenic for me

>>717164308
Your ignorance, I presume.

>>717163835
But NPCs love the "morally gray" """dilemmas""".
Hell they love them so much they always try to either justify the evildoers or shut down the work of fiction in question.

>>717153832 (OP)
Because morality irl is grey and muddy and something like the D&D alignment system is very unrealistic.

>>717164375
I really hope you’re just pretending to be retarded

>>717164428
start with Dubliners it's good.

my big gripe with black, white, and even "gray" morality is that it assumes that every character and culture has the same moral spectrum and would willingly let themselves be evaluated through that framework. it makes the world feel smaller and flatter because it makes all the cultures/people the same.
in a game i played a little while back, the fantasy monster protagonist desecrates a war monument and beheads the first boss for insulting her god directly. to her and her faction these are all reasonable things to do, serving their god is their moral center and she is mostly in the right. but to the antagonist faction, she's completely fucking insane and a menace to their idea of a rational society. it create the sense that there's more to the world than just one narrow perspective.
if the game followed the idea of a single spectrum black/white/gray morality then the immersive feeling of two fully realized cultures fighting for their respective values and ideals would fall flat on its face as everyone would have the same beliefs and virtues, just different stances on them.

>>717153832 (OP)
Because subversion is the root of irony and post-modernism.
Good and evil are no longer fashionable.

>>717164143
>he thinks Christian is a thing where everyone who practices it should literally just give up everything that they are actually good at or talented to go up somewhere in the mountains and cloister themselves like monks, living a life unbefitting of their character as a whole
God loves the individual with all their specific quirks, talents, personality of way of being since He Himself made them that way for a reason and he respects autonomy and wants people to be able to do things in His name through means that they themselves would actually be good at and enjoy partaking in. Forcing Christians to go be Monks when it's not something they would actually be great at, or that in no way would help anyone further bring others to Him would be of no use. He let's those who fee the calling to be Monks go be Monks, then the others can be other things like Pastors, or really just normal day to day workers in offices or whatever else just like everyone else but partake in His goodness through part time hobbies instead. God knows you and what you are made for, so forcing you to go do and be something you aren't meant to do or be completely destroys the whole point of Him giving you free will.

>>717161932
based

>>717164624
>God loves the individual with all their specific quirks
does he though

>>717164424
According to Catholicism, the objectively correct form of Christianity, non-believers can still get into Heaven so long as they never made the deliberate choice to reject God.

>>717153832 (OP)
It's (often) more interesting
Being Sir Goodytwoshoes fighting Mr. Evil gets a bit boring after a while

But it entirely depends on the story and its structure. Like in Zelda it makes sense that characters are purely good or purely evil (not saying that there's never some nuance to this). But in a story like ASOIAF (GoT), having a character without grayness would stick out like a sore thumb (like how mostly evil characters like Ramsay, Euron or the Mpuntain have some nuance to them).

>>717164660
Homosexuality isn't a "quirk" , it's a sin that the individual will have to struggle with their whole life to keep at bay as much as possible if not outright cull it. God loves you in spite of it, not because of it. He sees the goodness in you behind issues like that and wants to help you get through and over it as much as possible.

>>717162502
>>rewrites the entirety of the bible and its story to better fit whatever their own human mind want to hear instead of the truth Jesus spoke
isn't that already the bible

>>717164692
so why bother converting or making people aware of God? you're risking sending them to Hell every time you ask someone to make the choice

>>717164331
>but you don't have to burn in Hell if you accept the fact that you don't deserve heaven and can't earn your way into heaven by being a "good" person and doing good deeds. That's the definition of self-righteousness.
???? People who try doing good deeds go to hell while passive flaggellants get a free ticket to heaven for admitting they are pieces of shit?

What "gray morality" is there in The Witcher? It's a completely straightforward story of a good guy vs. bad guys.

>>717164761
>it's a sin
Why?

>>717153832 (OP)
Females should get a 66% melee damage debuff and a 20% speed debuff because men are faster and stronger.
In exchange, females get higher seduction chances.

>>717164692
According to the sect that practices idol worship, rapes kids and hoards wealth? You're believing them? They're literally the Antichrist

>>717164850
I don't think a knife to ribs hurts 66% less because a female is stabbing you

>>717164780
If someone is shown Christianity and thinks "Fuck that shit." they're going to hell anyway because only an evil person would exercise their free will in such a way.

>>717164853
They aren't that bad when you read the Bible and realize that a lot of those things are fine if you're a believer.

Being unable to comprehend that some things aren't purely A or purely B is a sign of autism

>>717154414
Finish your books, fatso.

>>717164898
I was thinking more about an axe or a sword which would swing with more velocity and penetrate a lot deeper into a monsters hide if a man swings it than a female with a similar physique.
This would especially apply to blunt force weapons to mangle armor and cause internal damage.

>>717161525
anything, morality or beauty or taste, being "objective" is irrelevant if there doesn't exist anyone who can actually see the objective truth
>the objective truth is whatever my opinion is!
lol lmao

>>717164898
A bullet hurts the same whether it's fired by a woman or a man, and yet female soldiers are always strictly rarer, and performing worse than male ones.
I know why. You probably know why.
Now you should explain to everyone why that is.

Name one piece of media with purely good/evil characters that was made exclusively for adults.
And no before you say, LOTR was made primarily for children.

>>717165130
one piece

>>717164829
Because it's abhorrent to the human nature in itself as a whole the way that God meant for it to be. Man with woman and that's it. Not man with man. Not woman with woman. Not either of them with animals.

It combines the worst of lust and degeneracy and debauchery into a disgusting, evil thing that is meant to trick people into believing they are somehow living something "good" for themselves because they get the "feelings" when they fuck each other in the ass that are normally supposed to be reserved to and shared within the confined of sacred marriage union between the man and the woman.

>>717165130
Dungeons and Dragons
Most religions and mythologies
Mario

>>717156824
>Rohan is Mongolian
Dude doesn't know about Scythian step culture

>>717165130
One literature scholar once noted, that English literature can be defined as "children literature for adults".
Here's your answer to this weird dissonance with Tolkien's content vs how his works are treated.

>>717164761
Being a sexual deviant is bad but what’s wrong with two men who feel genuine love for each other?

>>717165160
if god didn't mean for it to be then it wouldn't exist

If you want a simplistic black and white story with absolutly no depth
------> JRPGs and their story

Grey choices in a world where the outcome depends how you perceive the truth and isnt morally simpülistic
------>WRPGs

>>717165260
Sure but thats no excuse to publicly prance around in dog masks and leather g strings.

>>717161469
That was objectively good from the perspective of jews.

>>717165260
>what’s wrong with two men who feel genuine love for each other?
You see, men do not have a hole for fucking. Men only have a shitting hole. Homosexuality is inherently and inseparably connected to actual shit. That's why it's bad.
Fuck abrahamics and their semitic genital mutilation cult btw, the reasoning here is purely based on physiology.

Troglodyte

>>717165160
Lust is always temporary regardless of whether you’re straight or gay, and true love is something that is already rare enough to find in this world. Why punish two men for finding and understanding each other in ways women never can? If they’re not being perverted in public, spreading STDs, or grooming kids then there shouldn’t be a problem.
Most men don’t marry or reproduce with women anyway. Is being an incel a sin too?

>>717164808
>People who try doing good deeds go to hell
They are not doing it out of the kinds of their own hearts or because they truly love God. They do in order to try and "earn" their Salvation through their own power in their deeds so that when they would get saved and go to Heaven, they can start boasting about the things they have done in order to have "earned" their Salvation, in which cases, that is Pride, which is a sin, and sin cannot exist in Heaven, therefore, the person can't either as long as they would have that attached to them still as they go in. They are self-righteousness and still believe in their own power and strength to somehow earn their way in and aren't willing to humble themselves and admit to the fact only faith alone, in God alone, can save them.

Jesus Himself said:
>"For it is by God's grace that you have been saved through faith. It is not the result of your own efforts, but God's gift, so that no one can boast about it."

>>717164808
>passive flaggellants get a free ticket to heaven for admitting they are pieces of shit
Literally everyone is a piece of shit to some extent, some more than others, but there are still no truly inherent "good people". All for short within the glory of God and his perfect standards. But that is not meant to be something to cause you despair since He still loves you and is willing to help you be with Him despite all of that as long as you are actually willing to admit to the fact you are indeed broken and need Him to help change you for the better. Faith in Christ is still required for Salvation, though in fringe cases where you can stuff like uncontacted tribes that never heard of Him, God may choose to judge them based on the way they lived their life instead and whether they did indeed have similar thoughts of repentance in their head or just some form of realization and admittance of their clear broken nature and having wishes of redeeming themselves in some way.

>>717165363
Strongly agree.
>>717165435
Some gays don’t like anal and only play with each others dicks.

>tfw blitzed through witcher 1 and 2
>when i got to 3 my desire to play just completely vanished

>>717165668
>God and his perfect standards
the same god who's okay with slavery and commands genocide multiple times?

>>717153832 (OP)
shitlennials and Gen X writing, muh everything is gray, Church is bad, reddit type of writing and humour etc

Ah yes, the larping thread for hypocrites who don't practice what they preach.

>>717165332
If you plant fruits in your garden, but then someone comes in to sow weeds among them, do you just rip the weeds out with no regard for the fact their roots have intertwined with those of the fruits and thus, ripping them out would also cause the fruit to be ripped out and killed, do you try to spray it with some kind of chemicals to kill said weed only for it to affect the fruit as well and destroy it, or do you just allow them to grow in union until harvest is ready and the weed can finally be properly disposed off while the fruit has been saved and usable?

>>717165747
God never commands genocide.

And God doesn't have a problem with man having to toil. You can thank Eve for that.

>>717165886
god can do literally anything and he's the one responsible for creating everything so your metaphores are pointless

>>717165747
Are you actually willing to read the Bible or will you just continue to regurgitate talking points you saw of images that have exerts taken out of context and just take those as pure facts?

>>717165668
>They are not doing it out of the kinds of their own hearts or because they truly love God. They do in order to try and "earn" their Salvation through their own power in their deeds so that when they would get saved and go to Heaven, they can start boasting about the things they have done in order to have "earned" their Salvation
Most people aren’t thinking about religion every waking moment like you seem to.
If I see a kid about to get hit by a car I don’t rub my hands together and think “I’ll get into heaven for sure if I save him!”, I just save him because I don’t want to see an innocent child get hurt.
>everyone is shitty!
Why did God make us this way?
Why does he reward people who at best contribute nothing and at worst hurt others, just because they pledge their loyalty to him?

>>717165893
>God never commands genocide.
read the book
>And God doesn't have a problem with man having to toil. You can thank Eve for that.
there's a difference between 'having to toil' and permitting slavery
>>717165982
there's no context that justifies genocide and slavery when we're talking about an omnipotent deity

>>717165975
It’s like hearing people make excuses for a lazy game dev.

>>717166034
>read the book
prove it

Being purely good is Abrahamic drivel.

Western heroes are morally gray. Achilles and Lancelot, argruably the most well-known Western heroes, both shame themselves: Achilles with not burying Hector and Lancelot when he dishonorably boards the cart.

>>717166126
Deuteronomy 20:16–17

>>717165975
He can choose to literally just kill you right now and sent you to Hell with no way to actually work through life towards finally reaching Him, but instead He chooses to continue giving you life so that you may seek Him and be saved. I don't know how you're not seeing it and just continue being so bitter about being told you are loved by your own Creator and God. Even when you don't deserve it, He still loves you. And even when you might feel like could just be discarded and replaced so easily, He chooses not to do any of those and instead cares for you regardless of how bad the situation might seem in order to help save you. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp that He truly loves and cares for you, regardless of how low you might be.

>>717166219
He can also choose to make sinful/harmful/evil things no longer exist
Also god chooses to kill people all the time through terminal illnesses that he invented

>>717166219
>You’re a piece of shit and deserve to go to hell!
>…but it’s okay because God loves you :)
Christians really think this will convince people to join their humiliation ritual cult.

>>717166175
They were warned. That's not genocide. It's God's judgement.

>>717166114
honestly yeah
>if god good why evil
its not a bug its a feature!

>>717155598
That's a very ironic choice of an image considering what you're peddling in your post. It's also funny that you do the same thing you accuse the other party of doing i.e. trying to justify your intelligence by a preference in a certain type of media without batting an eye

>>717154164
The only bad thing about Geralt is that he is not celibate maxxing

>>717166219
The way you keep saying “you” makes me realize that Christians all think they’re the main character and God personally cares about them and all their petty feelings and problems. The amount of coping you people have to do to believe this is impressive.

>>717166359
The Jews had plenty of warnings too.

>>717166175
The standard procedure for battling a city was to first offer peace, and negotiations regarding their issues, if they didn't accept, the city would be besieged, then the men killed, but everyone else, like women and children would be spared. That's not "genocide" , that's just war in general, and God finds a way to make things good even through that.

All of the listed groups there were literally child sacrificing idolaters with the vilest way of living that were the closest you could get to actual real evil being among people themselves. Why you would see it as a bad thing for good, which is God triumphing over and getting rid of evil as whole is beyond me.

>>717155454
This

>>717166587
>women and children would be spared
Then raped and enslaved.

>>717166315
I literally just said how it works in my previous comment, but you're disregarding it cause its "le metaphor". God will make it so all those things cease to be a thing at the end of times when the Great Harvest is complete, and His "fruits" , which are His children that are of the Church have matured and are ripe for the picking to the point the "weeds" can safely be removed without harming them anymore in the process of doing so. If He immediately does anything drastic right away, do you not think that can cause further issues or repercussions in some way? And who is to say He isn't already doing things to lead more towards Him and making having to deal with said things a bit easier before the end for it finally arrives? He works in ways that are not always obvious to those who aren't seeking Him.

>>717166587
>Those child sacrificers are so evil!
>So I’ll destroy the whole city killing all the children inside it too!
Next you’ll say “i-it was the only way!”

>>717166359
it's actually still genocide according to the word's definition
>>717166587
>like women and children would be spared
No, he clearly commands to not leave alive anything that breathes
how do you cope with 1 Samuel 15:3 where it's explicitly stated to kill EVERYTHING?

>>717166852
God is a Reaper?

>>717166741
proof?

>>717166852
>God will make it so all those things cease to be a thing at the end of times
Why not do it now?
>If He immediately does anything drastic right away
What if he just didn't create those harmful things?

>>717166983
yeah, okay. you don't actually care, you just want to shitpost and make fun of things you don't care to understand.

>>717153832 (OP)
Because le good light vs evil dark manicheism is boring and overdone, humanity was shitting this media for past 2000 years for fucks sake
wait you wanted The Jews answer, yeah it's the jews

>>717166986
Numbers 31:17-18

>>717166986
Where do you think the Roman Empire got their slaves from, anon?

>>717166852
"He" and "him" are not proper nouns, you shouldn't capitalize them.

>>717161469
>Muh Jewsus
Lol

>>717153832 (OP)
>Why do so many game stories nowadays just focus around "gray morality" as opposed to just portraying good as being good and evil as being evil?

You must be 15.

>>717167056
I’m just confused by how illogically you think. You’re always working backwards from the assumption that God is both real and always right, so you will use every cope you can to justify that assumption and never admit you are wrong.
Honestly you’re worse than communists in your blind fanaticism.

>>717153832 (OP)
witcher 3 has like a couple of morally grey choices in total
it's usually pretty obvious what the "best" choice is
>MHHHH should I let the literal devil take a soul or just stop him
>MHHHHHHHH should I let the evil spirit loose or just kill it
>MHHHHHHHHHHHH should I murder the doppleganger for the crime of stealing or let him go

>>717167036
God is not the author of bad things. Sin has been introduce into the World following the failed rebellion and fall of Lucifer and the angels, then subsequently followed by Adam and Eve who choose to eat the fruit of knowledge of Good and Evil, thus causing them, as inherently good creatures as God made them to be, to now have full knowledge of Evil, and as consequence of their free will, able to actually choose to engage in it, leading to everything else happening in the World now. It's all inherently rooted in the fabric of the Universe itself. Sin cannot be removed without ultimately destroying everything and everyone in this world.

God loves you and everyone else as His own and wants to see people be saved, which is why He is patient with everything, even though it hurts Him to see the way things are, and it hurts Him to see what you go through since he relates to the struggles of every single person out there. There will come a time at the end when Sin will properly be removed, once Satan and the demons are locked in Hell for Eternity, then God will remake things into a New Heaven and a New Earth where everything will be perfect and good as it was meant to be, and Sin will be no more, but to do so would mean the destruction of the current one, which He restraints from since He wishes for as many people as possibly to be saved since He loves them all. The best thing possible for now is to just pull through with things as they are until the end and trust in Him. He will handled everything and make sure all that happens, even if it seems as the worst thing imaginable to use, will eventually come together to form something good and great in His name.

>>717167491
>God is not the author of bad things.
He is. He's the author of everything and knows everything so he's 100% responsible for LITERALLY EVERYTHING that ever happens.
Not reading the rest of your delusional drivel.

>>717153832 (OP)
antiheroes aren't new and their charm isn't going away, in a lot of ways they predate the purely good hero

>>717154164
most antihero types do the good and noble thing in the end, that's sort of the point of the archtype

>>717167491
Why create Lucifer and the fruit of knowledge in the first place if God is all knowing and can predict all future events? If he was truly all powerful he could remove evil from the universe just as easily as he created it.
>It's all inherently rooted in the fabric of the Universe itself
Pure headcanon cope.

>>717166515
>Christians all think they’re the main character and God personally cares about them and all their petty feelings and problems
Yes, that is the literal thing God does for you.
He has a special relationship and love for someone that is uniquely only meant for them alone. The way He loves you is unique to you alone and he doesn't love two people the same way nor shares it in some way to have you be some type of sideline character. He loves for and cares about every single person out there with an infinite amount of love and care that is specifically catered to them and them alone.

This is not meant to cause you to see yourself as a "main character" or somehow take pride in being loved more or in some "better" way by God, it's meant to make you realize that when you see others, you know God loves them just as much as he loves you, in their own unique way, with the exact same degree of infinite love He also loves and cares for you, which should incentive you to actually seem them more properly as the people they are and be compassionate instead of just discarding them. Because you know God loves them as well just as much and desires to be in union with and have a relationship with them.

>>717153832 (OP)
>Why do so many game stories nowadays just focus around "gray morality" as opposed to just portraying good as being good and evil as being evil?

Because 95% of writers are stuck in conventions.
The current convention says that good writing means that villains' motivations must be complex and make some sense, so writers all try to do that because they fear not doing so and being labeled bad writers.
But guess what, the REALLY good writers don't follow that crap. They write what they want, the way they want. Instead of trying to write the way a manual tells them to, they write the way tomorrow's manual will tell others how to write. But this type of writer is rare, and because they can be misunderstood by the ignorant masses, mega-corporations don't tend to give them much space.

how do christcucks write those walls of text about gods love but completely fold when slavery is brought up

>>717167795
It’s a nice fantasy and I wish I could believe it, but to me but it’s no different than having an imaginary friend.
I wonder how many religious people truly believe and how many just go to church for the socialization/community aspect.

There's obvious good and evil but sometimes in order to survive we have to do some bad to live long enough to do greater good.

>>717153832 (OP)
It's just standard CRPG bullshit nerds decided is "mature"

>>717167691
If He were to not create Lucifier, just because He "knew" he would turn out the way he did, that would introduce the issue where you would ask
>"Why doesn't He just not create other people when he knows the things they would do then?"
and the answer goes back to the fact that He loves you still. He loves his creation and desires to see them grow and mature and ultimately seek Him out to be saved from the situation He knows they would ultimately put themselves through by trusting in their own judgement instead of His. It also goes back to the idea that, if Lucifer wasn't around, something even worse could have just as easily been spawned in his place instead.

It even further boils down to
>"Why create anything at all in the first place then, lol???"
and the answer is in the same vein as, why do artists create art when they know most might not actually even see it, why musicians make music when they know most likely won't even get to hear it, why do some people to certain types of things when they know the majority won't even get to know they were the ones to do it and give them any recognition for it?
They do it because they take great joy in the things they create and engage with along seeing said work improve and mature over time.

You must understand that just having knowledge of what something would go like doesn't meant you necessarily experienced it directly. It's one thing to be aware of spoilers for a movie and how it may end, but another experience altogether to actually watch said movie with the knowledge of the spoilers, and now, instead of passively watching, you're instead more actively seeking out things that the character do or say in various scenes to see how it all might actually tie together with the ending that you've been spoiled on.

Just because God knows how your life would go life doesn't mean He doesn't still desire to experience it together with you and have you receive the gift of living and the world that He prepared.

>>717168496
>I’m going to create you to be evil and cause misery to yourself and others because I love you so much!
lol
lmao even

>>717168592
there's a reason why christians have no answer to the problem of evil after all those years lol

>>717168496
>if Lucifer wasn't around, something even worse could have just as easily been spawned in his place instead
Where the fuck does the Bible say this?
And how can something be worse than evil incarnate?

>>717154164
>>717154271
>>717154414
>>717161425
>thread asks about morality in fiction
>BUT WHAT ABOUT THE REAL WORLD?! THINK OF LE REAL PEOPLE!
Videogames, you inbred millenial negroids, VIDEOGAMES.

>>717167797
This is also a part of it, writers in entertainment are complete hacks. It's insane how every other creative position adapted and grew more skillfull, except writers. Concept artists/illustrators of every kind, composers, voice actors, all of them are expected to give their all and improve at their craft even if they're working on a videogames (which even by gaymers is not considered real art) but writers outside of books, 99% of the time, are idiots and hacks who just follow cliches or care way too much about politics.

>>717168592
>Even though I am aware of the things you will do, and the people you will hurt, I still love you as my creation, and I will bestow the gift of life upon you, so that you may get to experience the glory I have in stock for you.
>And even through the evil I know you will commit onto others, I will ultimately make it work towards the good and betterment of all.
>For I am Lord and Sovereign over everything, and evil shall not go by and left unpunished, as whatever a man sows, that will he shall also reap.

>>717160720
Most adults do have black and white morality. If anything those that think in greys are the weirdos.
Don't believe me? Come up with a position that's grey, and try to see if you can come up with 10 people in your life that are ambivalent on it. Not 100% against, not 100% for, but 50% ish.
>>717164330
If there's heaven, heaven's infinite, and children who are sinless go to heaven, then who cares if a kid dies. They have eons of happiness waiting for them. What made me an atheist was the inverse. If you're a scumbag idiot and you are sentence for eons of torture with no reprieve/way out, that doesn't seem fair.

>>717167691
You're acting like omniscience = determinism and that's not how Christian theology usually frames it. Knowing something will happen isn't the same as forcing it to happen-God's foreknowledge doesn't override free will in most interpretations. You could just as easily ask "why does a parent have a kid knowing it might grow up and make bad choices?" Because the potential for good, love, and genuine relationship is worth the risk.

Also, the fruit of knowledge wasn't some poisoned apple laced with evil. It was a test-free will doesn't mean much if everything is on rails. Choosing to disobey meant choosing separation, not some arbitrary punishment. You can argue it's a weird setup, but saying it's "headcanon cope" while offering no meaningful alternative for morality or causality makes you sound like the midwit in the dorm room debate who just read Nietzsche for the first time.

>>717163448
Catch-22. Did Yossarian do anything wrong? Besides of course telling Nately's whore that Nately died. She was a piece of shit, she deserved nothing.

>>717164186
>lord of the flies
Kids killing each other is kino. We need more of that now a days.

>>717168851
>asks question with off-topic subject that can't be described with literal Bible verses since it doesn't directly delve into hyper complex ides of what the afterlife and spiritual world in itself is like, so the person has to respond to you with the same off-topic type of answer based in 'what-ifs' and assumptious thinking patterns based on already developed theological theories
>"WTF BRO WHY AREN'T YOU JUST QUOTING BIBLE VERSES AT ME???? CUZ U CANT?? LMAOOO!!! CHECKMMATE THEN!! HAHHAHAHAHAH!!!"
Also, obviously something worse than "evil incarnate" could come to exist with different attributes to it that we couldn't even begin to quantify nor would imagine or understand since you're trying to make sense of something unlimited and beyond physical human constraints when you, as a person, are limited in everything regarding your body, including strength, intellect and higher capacity for deeper thinking or imagination.

>>717164186
>some of the most recognized books in the world
>pretentious
you are the dumbest gorilla

>>717169259
Why not just prevent the evil from ever existing though?
>And even through the evil I know you will commit onto others, I will ultimately make it work towards the good and betterment of all.
More empty cope. You can’t justify every single evil act as being part of God’s 4D chess plan working towards some greater good. Unless you can explain how children getting raped to death leads to something good?

>>717169590
>still no source
So you are just making up your own headcanon as you go.
And I don’t buy le Lovecraftian incomprehensible horror bullshit either. Even if that horror were to exist, then why would God tolerate Cthulhu’s existence if he is all good and wants to protect us from it?

>>717153832 (OP)
Because black-and-white morality systems are mostly boring. It's not challenging, it doesn't make you think. It doesn't confront you with figuring out what your values even are and how they apply to any given situation. You can still do things with them that are interesting. I played Undertale recently and it was done very well there, but you need a lot of extra things to make it work.

>>717169704
>Unless you can explain how children getting raped to death leads to something good?
Children who "get raped to death" ultimately won't have to deal with growing up in a world that is inherently evil and filled with Sin nor mature into all manners of criminals and other bad things. God will save them and send them to Heaven if they specifically died exceedingly young without actually understanding things, for as Jesus said:
>"The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows."
and
>"Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."
They may have suffered in the moment, but in death, all that they may have suffered will be ultimately cleansed away from them and they'll get to live, grow up and mature up in Heaven with God as their Father, in an environment that is completely perfect and good, without the constraints of their flesh body, nor hindered by the power and destruction of Sin. They will grow up in there and away for the arrival of their parents on Earth to come up to them, if they ever do make it up there to God. And when they do, it will be a great and happy reunion like nothing else that's ever been seen. But if it does not happen, they will still have God as their parent, and that in itself will remain more than enough.

>>717154414
>clear good and evil
Narcissists hate it, hard to manipulate around, directly attacks their core
>vague morally gray
Chaotic, easier to thrive in, easier to justify to the self

>>717170827
>>"The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows."
I forgot to add the other part to it.
>"But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked."

>>717163448
All of them, only kids books used colored ink.

>>717154642
GoT crumbled because GRRM wouldn't finish the fucking series, as well as letting two retards finish the TV series for him resulting in a total disaster ending.

>>717169704
>Why not just prevent the evil from ever existing though?
Free will is not truly "free" unless the person in question has the ability to choose between obeying or disobeying, those meaning choosing between doing good or evil. If evil didn't exist as a concept to engage with to some extent to actually give you the actual choice between choosing whether to obey or disobey, then you would just obey by future nature alone, which is similar to how animals operate based on instinct alone, thus making you more like a slave than anything else, which God didn't want since to Him, you are an individual.

>>717154642
Dune has lasted almost as long as LotR in terms of being well regarded as literature and has lots of grey morality. LotR only really beats it in popularity purely because of the Peter Jackson films.

Is this the thread?

>>717153832 (OP)
Using clear good and evil makes for a boring game because you already know which outcome you are going to choose on principle that you know what is good and what is bad.

Morally grey choices require you to take that peanut for a brain for a drive, to figure out which of these choices do the least damage. Obviously there should be some clear cut cases in a game like a thief murdering the robbed person out of fear of being found out. However only morally grey cases are as far from reality as only good/bad choices.

>>717170092
That's all bullshit, in my opinion.
The content of the story is largely irrelevant. It's the way the story is told that matters. A good writer can make anything entertaining.

>>717172220
I disagree. Sure, it can be e.g. well-paced, but if the content is trash, it lessens the experience. That's how I feel about a lot of rap music. I can appreciate intricate rhyming patterns, flow, the structure of an unfolding narrative throughout an album, and the instrumentals, but if I really don't care about the content of what's being communicated, it brings the whole experience down significantly for me.

>witcher thread
>It's full of retards that should have had their country permanently range banned years ago

>>717156549
Dangerously retarded poster

>>717164692
>According to Catholicism
Ah it's a LATAM thread I see

>>717166587
Literally nothing the hebrews say about their opponents can be taken seriously if it comes from the torah/bible
One of their most important stories, exodus, is flat out impossible because the Egyptians did not have institutionalized slavery despite the hebrews claiming they were slavers (mostly because the hebrews themselves were fairly heavy slavers and couldn't conceive of a civilization that did not use slaves)

The simple fact is that the hebrews were an invading savage people who took advantage of the bronze age collapse to murder and rape most native inhabitants of the levant then later tried to cover up what they did

>play a game intended for mature audience
>get exposed to mature view points and themes
>wahhhhhh this can't be happening, save me jesus

do v/tards really?

>>717164898
>>717165124
Humbled

>>717161469
fuck off you kike

I always make sure to blast away the corporate people in video games specifically

>>717170827
i think this falls apart when you introduce non-human animals
you can try to explain the meaning in human suffering but what about animals? we are the only species with a unique endgame so why does everyone else suffer too? whats the point of calves being torn to shreds by wolves? whats the point of trapped animals starving to death? theres no meaning there

>>717172518
americans? indians? israelis? canadians? australians? brits? brazilians?

>>717153832 (OP)
This is such an American question. I will never understand the US obsession with evil, and child wrestling black and white political narratives.

>>717177731
I personally find Brazilians the worst posters.

>>717153832 (OP)
>Why do so many game stories nowadays just focus around "gray morality"
name one

wow, what a garbage thread.

>>717177839
doesn't that apply to every country on earth? at least in poland it always boils down to us vs them strawmen
there's always a phase where they stop giving you new reasons to vote for them and instead try to convince you that everyone else is evil
the last election ended up vs the right wants to enslave women and introduce catholic fascism vs the left wants to delegalize religion and turn you gay

>Make black and white morality game
>the people complaining call woke because you kill right wingers (evil people)
wooooooooooooooooooooooooow

>>717178174
wolfenstein kek

>>717178169
I have never heard the word evil once in Canadian / British politics. I just assumed Europe was more like the commonwealth.
France is pretty catholic but I haven't heard it their either.

>>717178174
>Make black and white morality game
>troons seethe because you kill troonies molesting children

>>717178978

>>717179185
>make black and white morality game
>troons seethe because you prevent their propoganda to brainwash and bully innocent people

Is it possible for autistics to get over black and white thinking?

>>717177619
It's the consequence of Sin seeping into the World along with the curse of death being brought upon Creation as a whole due to Adam and Eve's disobedience of God and eating the forbidden fruit. He told them if they were to eat of it, they would die, and He was right, still is in fact. But due to the fact He loves us and doesn't actually wants us to die, He made it so part of the immediate judgement we were supposed to receive, that being death, was temporarily put to the said by God making it so that an animal would end up being sacrificed in our stead, due to the fact that animals, by nature, are sinless due to the fact they operate based on instincts and no on free will like us, they don't act based of knowledge of good and evil.
He made it so that the immediate judgement we deserved be postponed instead through a sacrifice. Then upon sacrificing said animal, He further used its contents to give Adam and Eve clothing and food. Although they were banished from Eden and disconnected from Him, God still cared for and looked after them.
Ultimately, they did still succumbed to the curse of death, as it is still in effect, but God used that event as a startup point to fix this entire issue we are under so that we can be saved from our own fuckup through the ultimate and final sacrifice who is Jesus Christ.

Now that I said that, I'll just answer the animal part as well and hopefully is more understandable like this. The World is entrenched in Sin and under a constant curse of death for the Creation itself as whole. People grow old, get ill and then die. Plants dry up, wither and expire. Animals are used as commodities, getting butchered for meat and goods or they kill one another. It's all part of said curse of death Creation as whole is under. How their deaths happen is irrelevant, the fact the death happens to being with is the point of it in itself. Everything in Creation as a whole is tainted by sin and death, but God works towards deliverance from it.

>>717179885
sin and 'curse of death' (which isn't a thing btw as god has complete and total control over all creation) have no reason to affect non-humans
animals are being punished for nothing at all
they're brought into this world to die in pain
there are so many ways to go around like making animals immune to pain for example or making them all herbivores so they don't kill eachother at the very least
>How their deaths happen is irrelevant
it's absolutely relevant
why would god want animals to suffer? they have NOTHING to gain from it

>>717180464
Humans weren't made to consume meat of animals to begin with since the only things Adam and Eve ever consume in the garden were fruits and vegetable. So too the animals didn't actually consume meat. It's a consequence to what came of Sin and the curse of death that man put onto Creation as a whole by choosing to disobey God. I literally just told you that God told them they would die if they were to disobey, and they did, so they died, and the rest of us humanity as a whole are under the exact same curse of death as our ancestors, Adam and Eve were. We are born in a fallen state, onto a world entrenched in Sin, growing up surrounded by it and eventually engaging in harmful behaviors towards ourselves and others against our better judgement. We are thoroughly fucked and that extends to literally everything else in Creation and it's consequence of our own fuck ups and willing choice to disobey God's Word.

An animal was killed in order to temporarily stave off the death Adam and Eve deserved to immediately receive then the death wasn't worth nothing. All of the animal's contents were used in order to give something that both of them could make use of, again, as clothing and food. That animals began developing a taste for flesh instead of grass and berries is further evolution of said Sin taking root causing animals to act in ways they weren't meant to and instead causing things to die themselves through preying on others, just like humans developed a taste for meat in order to survive via hunting animals and killing them for food prior to knowing or understanding anything about agriculture and growing their own fruits and vegetables to it like they used to.

Why is your immediate thought to just default on believing God is an author of evil and suffering when it's the complete opposite and Satan is the one causing these things to happen in the first place?
God made everything there is and He made it good, then Satan, through man, began to corrupt it.

>>717181416
Every tale about God has him act like a schizophrenic monster that plays with human life like they’re his puppet, if you peel back the layers this applies to the story of Adam and Eve as well. God is our greatest source of evil I worship him through torment, every lash of pain inflicted I feel his Grace flow through me there is no greater worship.

>>717181416
>It's a consequence to what came of Sin and the curse of death that man put onto Creation as a whole by choosing to disobey God.
Wrong. Again, there's no reason for animals to get punished by 'the curse of death.'
>An animal was killed in order to temporarily stave off the death Adam and Eve
And why does the animal have to suffer for that?
>Why is your immediate thought to just default on believing God is an author of evil and suffering
Because he is. Isaiah 45:7

>>717153832 (OP)
absolute good/evil have been deboonked, only low-iqers still believe in those

>>717182349
We're just running in circles at this point, you don't care to hear anything, you just want to hear what you want then you take things from the Bible out of context and twist them to mean whatever you want so you can point to the lie you've so deeply attached yourself with that God is somehow to blame for why you feel like you're suffering.

Creation as a whole is under the curse of death as consequence as the main representatives of Creation as a whole, which where the first humans having disobeyed God and bringing Sin in itself as a concept into the World at large, thus making it so that every life form is entrenched in it causing killings, murders, illnesses to be a thing, all leading to death.

Humans, as representatives of Creation are soft sovereigns over animals and able to use them as commodities within reason to provide food through them for themselves and other required material to make clothing and whatnot else they are able to and require. Whether the animal dies suffering or not doesn't matter since at the end they go straight to Heaven and whatever suffering they had to endure on Earth no longer matters nor applies to them in any way since they won't be traumatized by it, God will wash away all that from them so they won't have to be the influence of Sin anymore, same as He does to humans. If a human however caused the animal to die in some kind of suffering that you seem to fixate this much on for whatever reason, he will be held to account for it if he did it willingly, fully knowing it would make the animal suffer and he did it for his own pleasure to just see it squirm or whatever. If he did it through something like inexperienced hunting, and the animal for example didn't die immediately and instead bled to death over a period of time, the suffering wasn't done willingly and with malicious intent so it's unlikely they would be held to some kind of accounting for that type of thing.

>>717182007
I've no idea who or what made you believe in such a lie that God Himself, who is All Good, Merciful and Just would be the source of all evil, but I'll pray you come to realize you're being led astray by Satan trying to cause you to harm yourself and further distance you from the One who made you who you are, loves you in spite of your faults and failings and wants to see you actually do well and not destroy yourself like this.

>>717183740
god has claimed to be the author of good and evil and you pretend that he didn't
you don't care about your god or your book
you only care about your imaginary curse of death because it lets your god get away with not doing anything at all

>>717184656
You're starting to break down mentally into projecting your own unbelief onto someone who actually knows God's nature and took the time to explain you literally everything you asked about, even when you insistently kept trying to run it down in circles focusing on very specific things you thought were somehow going to be an "own" to anything. I have no idea what's causing you to stay this angry and bitter over religion, but it's clear you're just trying really hard to go out of your way to misconstrue God as being Satan, but that just let's it be known you don't actually know Him. Whatever idea you have to God as it seems to stand right now is from Satan trying to keep you away from God by making you belief he's the one you should be blaming for the way your life is right now or for whatever evil and suffering you see out in the world when Satan was the one who have put it all into work through man to begin with.

Either actually read through the Bible properly and try to understand it, meaning, you read the full context of the parts you are trying to cite instead of just throwing around out-of-text paragraphs while trying to twist their meaning to your own benefit, or just drop this whole thing and admit to the fact you don't actually know what you're talking about not caring to actually understand the truth behind the things you are trying to cite because you just want to argue and troll and feel like you're high and in the right for "debunking" people.

>>717153832 (OP)
I hate it, it basically whitens true evil act.
And blackens rationality and healthy approach.
I know every act in life have some consequences, but fuck me, it get tiresome.

>>717185862
>once again confirming that you dont know your own god
embarrassing
your explanations dont make any sense if we assume that god is omnipotent and not evil by the way
feel free to reply with another schizophrenic wall of text about the magical hex of nonliving and gods secret nature but i wont be reading it

hyperr based sunday thread full of truth nukes. christ is king!

>>717164319
I'm right and you should feel bad for looking up to a video game character.

test

>>717178174
>>717179185
>NOOOOOO!!!!!
>YOU CAN'T HOLD ME AT MY OWN STANDARD AND COMMENT AND CRITICIZE ME BASAED ON THAAAAAAATT!!!!!
>AIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

Being too good bad because it's being evil to someone
Being too evil good unless it's for selfish reasons because it goes against the too good (evil)