Thread 717241634

The tweet that saved FPS.

>>717241634 (OP)
Knowing the pattern isn't really going to help you in CS. If you miss the first bullet you're probably going to miss the rest of them too.

>>717241634 (OP)
no recoil is cheating. If everyone else has to play with that handicap, there's no reason why you should get special treatment.

valve should ban his arse.

>>717241953
as a psychic i just dont play competitive multiplayer because i know ill get banned.

>>717241708
ok... so randomise it

Ah yes, just take all skill out of it by making it completely random.
People don't just stand still and let you spray them down. Even if you can perfectly do the pattern you have to accommodate for target movement while doing the pattern, which will always be dynamic. The type of person who complains about this shit is the kind of person that has made virtually every major competitive video game genre worse.

>>717241634 (OP)
>stouty
I saw him stream the other day to 10 people
great mordhau player, but shares the same batshit insane personality as the mordhau devs. you feel like these people are suffering from constant, neverending butthurt caused by interacting with each other.
well, at least they have some soul left in them, as opposed to the chiv devs (lmao)

>>717241634 (OP)
>noooo you can't control recoil ahhhhhh help me I'm a complete shitter

thanks for the shoutout /v/tards
twitter verified here I go!

>>717242803
sup retard
do you know why spray pattern exist in the first place?
no, it's not so that you can learn and abuse them and then call it "skill".
counter-strike at the very core was design to be as un-fun as possible - slow movement, slowdown on jump, extreme weapon spray - those all serve one single purpose: to give the modding devs a chance against people who had actual skill.
problem is, the dev underestimated the autism of cs player and being able to learn spray patterns. and when they found out about their mistake, it was already to late to change without upsetting the low IQ autists.
non-random spray patterns are basically a relic from a time where modding devs where dogshit at their job and concentrating on making the game less fun to accommodate to their tastes.
making spray patterns true random would force players to never spray because it would be ineffective as hell - as it should be in a tactical shooter.

>>717242803
ok but you can add noise to the pattern to make it randomized while it still follows a pattern
it's actually hilarious that half baked mods for bethesda games have more realistic guns than valve's cash cow gungame lmao

>>717243089
Where did I say anything otherwise? By your own admission they attempted to make it random to "give the modding devs a chance against people who had actual skill". So do you actually want sprays to be truly random, knowing this? They did make them truly random in Source (which was the worst and least popular competitive CS of all time) and for a brief period in GO with the update with that stupid handgun (which was the lowest point of the entire game and it was immediately changed back, due to how horrific the game was). What are you actually going for here? I'm not understanding the intention of your posts.

>>717243297
No one gives a fuck about realism in a competitive video game, lol. Get a clue.

>>717243372
realism that adds flavor while also bringing it to a more familiar state is actually always a good thing and players always prefer it, gabe's talked about this (even though retards take it out of context and imply he was blanket saying realism was bad)

>>717243428
It's a shame we're not actually talking about realism that would make the game better.

>>717243297
>he thinks people care about realism in a game where you bunny hop, stand on your alliy's head for boosts and run faster with a knife out

>>717243319
>So do you actually want sprays to be truly random, knowing this?
correct
>What are you actually going for here?
randomizing spray patters, duh
>I'm not understanding the intention of your posts.
first and foremost: CS is a dogshit game made for dogshit people. with that out of the way, randomizing spray patters is the most logical step for this dogshit game, because at least it would mean that people had to actually learn to not spray like retards all day. it really is that simple. no, learning a spray pattern is not a skill. learning how to not spray like a retard is.

>>717243372
>he said, while knowing very well that cs was patched to death over the years to make it more "realistic"
what a little disingenuous retard you are

>>717241634 (OP)
worst take of 2025

>no video
yeah not going to care

>>717243541
>learning how to use this element in this game isn't a skill because I say so
lol

competitive FPS has been a joke for a decade now

>>717241634 (OP)
He ain't wrong. Recoil should incentivise people to either control the length of their bursts or get in close enough that the spread doesn't matter.

>>717243713
>nooo, you can't just learn how to jump to get an advantage, you should be slowed down!
>what do you mean, randomized spray patterns? learning patterns is a skill, for real!
cstards in a nutshell, the most retarded FPS players on the entire planet

>>717243541
spray patterns are already basically randomized for <3k elo players

I'm 2k faceit and I can only control the first 7 or so bullets of an AK spray

>>717243805
>spray should be random because realism
>also I should be able to jump around mid firefight
lol

>>717243541
History shows that every time they have made spray patterns random it kills the game competitively. You don't have much to stand on, outside of being an obnoxious retard that thinks the game he hates, and doesn't even play, should be changed to accommodate to him (even though he's not going to play it).

>>717243805
but cs has movement?

>>717243982
>cstard cannot comprehend an argument nor can he read
I'm really not surprised here lmao
>>717243983
>kills the game competitively
and this is a problem, because...?

>>717243541
You must be bad at CS

>>717244087
Because the game's popularity and financial success comes from being a competitive game. That's like saying "why not just make Stardew Valley competitive?"

>>717244087
hey I'm curious, how is acting like an idiot for negative attention on 4chan as a hobby? you're clearly quite a big fan of it and I've been looking into alternate hobbies outside of the ones I already have

>>717244204
>the game's popularity and financial success comes from being a competitive game
no, the games entire popularity and financial success comes from it being free and attracting mostly kids and thirdies.

>>717244215
hey I'm curious, how is playing dogshit vidya for low IQ idiots as a hobby? you're clearly quite butthurt because of it and I've been looking into avoiding retards like you more effectively

>>717244215
where was "because realism" mentioned?

Wow, I remember arguing about spray patterns with a CStard a good 15 years (at least) ago.

Who cares? CS is dead and has been puppeteered around by a russian skin-selling game that everyone cheats in and has a literally broken server browser they wont bother to fix because no one actually plays the game anymore.

>>717244441
lil bro can't read a thread that has 37 posts

>>717244270
>from it being free
cs1.6 and cs:source were not free

>>717245339
to be fair in the case of CS source most people bought that for Gmod

>>717243297
I don't think it is about realism.

>>717241634 (OP)
Should be both really; a general pattern that guns follow(each one has their own according to weight, balance, ammo type, idyosincracies not covered here, fire decals) and some randomness associated due to unknown unknowns. Maybe some ammo types have greater randon range

>>717241634 (OP)
he's right in this case but stouty is a retard in general with lots of bad opinions

>>717243983
Rust did it several years ago and now has more players than ever

>>717247291
name 3

>>717247291
>t. mordhau dev
Your game turned out exactly as chivalry(1), the game you tried NOT to become.

>>717250408
if mordhau had random aiming it wouldnt have the issue

>>717250463
Low IQ detected.

>>717241634 (OP)
agreed, i fucking hate recoil patterns. i just wanna shoot. why is my trained military guy in-game not capable of holding his weapon still?
remove the shitty ass movement limiters too, i want to be able to jump without my guy sneaking.
i fucking hate real counter strike gameplay

>>717243297
>ok but you can add noise to the pattern to make it randomized while it still follows a pattern
CS:GO / CS2 literally do that though

>>717241634 (OP)
You guys are aware Counter Strike has spread and recoil right? 2 spray patterns are never exactly same due to spread, you can only minimize spread with crouching and standing still you can't eliminate it completely.

>>717243601
>cs was patched to death over the years to make it more "realistic"
Nah, it was patched to death to make it more "competitive" and "balanced"

>>717241634 (OP)
counter strike shouldn't be changed because it's a perfect containment game for it's autistic playerbase, imagine if there was an actual demand for games like counter strike for them to sink another 6000 hours into learning spray patterns or some stupid shit instead of playing good multiplayer games

>>717241634 (OP)
>daily CS shitter thread
Only realized /v/ was full of casuals once CS threads started

>>717243541
>CS is a dogshit game made for dogshit people.
Why do you care about it's mechanics so much then? Shouldn't you care about games you actually like and play instead?

>>717250720
you are aware that 1.6, source and go/2 all have different recoil mechanics

>>717242703
If it's random then it's not fair for everyone since someone could randomly get a worse pattern
If it's fixed then it's pointless since you just memorize this extra movement when shooting
If it's nonexistent then it takes no skill

>>717241634 (OP)
>just change this 30yo mechanic
>guy who dont play the game

>>717241634 (OP)
idk man, there's a lot of shooters out there with the lots of diffee gameplay mechanics. If you don't like CS' jankiness you can just play these, no need to change it

>>717250774
I've spent 0 hours into learning spray patterns and I got to global in 800 hours

>play any other shooter
>shoot in general direction of enemy
>get kills
Yeah guys, this is SO fun and skillful.

>>717250878
Difference is that GO/2 has the least amounts of spread, but guess what, spread in CS GO/2 is still higher than something like Battlefield 3/4/1 spread. CS worked fairly similar across 1.6 to 2. There was always recoil that caused your bullets to go above crosshair and there was always spread they made your recoil pattern less accurate more you moved.

>>717250883
random is still best, just rely less on spray

>>717250993
not relevant to OP when you look into his gaming pedigree

>>717251002
that gives people that learn to tap fire an unfair advantage, single shots should be randomized too

>>717251076
bad faith moment

>>717251075
It is literally the same.

>>717251076
Single shot accuracy IS random in CS2.

>>717251075
is the professional ideas guy a counter-strike professional?

This is a good point though:
there's no need to do the "recoil" thing and fuck with the first person camera bobbing up and down to mess up a player's cursor aim.
Just increase the spread: if that's the way you emulate "imprecise shooting", stick to it.

You want to do the visual recoil and fuck with my camera?
Fine.
But then, we take a different path, and I want you to remove random spread from automatic weapons as well.

Pick a lane and stick to it, don't do BOTH, like most games do.

>unironically playing cs
just get your weekly gambling drop and forget it

>>717241634 (OP)
>professional ideas guy
You mean a professional retard?

No, the problem is not with your retarded complaints about shit nobody cares about.
The problem is with the idea itself. Counter Strike sucks. You couldn't turn it into an exciting game even if it was a 1:1 simulation of real life close quarter combat. It's corner peeking dogshit.

>>717251208
cs doesnt fuck with your camera though

>>717251203
he got global (in wingman)

>>717250883
i'm not advocating to mess with a classic like CS. But I really wish people would get over the idea that RNG is some great evil. Games of chance ARE FUN. It makes them more casual friendly and they can still have massive skill ceilings.

>>717251517
casual friendly and absolutely fucking infuriating when you start to understand how much rng is fucking you over

I love when zoomers complain about games where you can't zoom around and ADHD laserpoint your gun.
It's always so dumb seeing games where Corporal Cock Johnson can laser his automatic rifle into a mans head 100m away. But you put it into the hands of an actual soldier and he's going to be absolutely spraying down a man-sized target 1/4 the distance away.

>>717251878
it's not just zoomers, everyone seems to think that way. even people playing milsims.

counter strike just seems so fucking unfun

>>717252757
for me no other shooter feels as good to kill enemies in

>>717244667
why are you trying to identify arguments then if you can't read?

If /v/ hate recoil patterns so much and want a game where you can just zoom around and laser people from far away, what's stopping y'all from playing something like Quake?

>>717253158
strafe jumping is a garbage game mechanic
>just repeat this lame pattern to move faster

>>717251208
Call of Duty does what you want and it's the reason why it has the best gunplay on the market.

>>717253835
>cod
>good gunplay
is this really where we're at

>>717242803
I see this image semi frequently on /v/ and it's always attached to a fucking retarded opinion.

>>717253631
correct

>>717241634 (OP)
you're not supposed to metagame regardless of how it's implemented

>people who don't play game argue about how game should be
why /v/ be like this

>>717251076
then learn to tap fire?

>>717253631
Reminder that a literal genius agrees with your ironic shitpost

https://youtu.be/Yaydx95FoEU?si=QDRig4xG2X3Xq_I6&t=122

>>717253886
I'd love to hear your opinion on what you don't like about it, what game has better gunplay and why. I truly believe CoD has the best gunplay of any mainstream shooter nowadays but I never see people give it credit for that and I never understood why, so I'm genuinely curious. Maybe I really am just playing FPS games wrong or something.

>>717254296
NTA, in the right season with the right weapons, Fortnite mogs everything else, unfortunately they can also have horrible weapons

>>717254296
ADS in a twitch shooter is ass backwards design at it's core

>fires 2,400 bullets per minute
>zero recoil

>>717243541
>i think this game is dogshit at its core
>here's how you can fix it
this has ruined more games than I can count
i think CS is boring shit too but I'm capable of recognizing that it simply isn't for me

>>717254397
While it may be true, I've never played fortnite, so I should clarify I am strictly talking about FPS games.
>>717254425
Somewhat true, which is why Phantom Forces actually does it best by making the bullets just go where your barrel is pointed like they should, regardless of whether or not you're ADSing.

>>717242803
>Ah yes, just take all skill out of it by making it completely random.
Memory != Skill.

Skill is adapting to a situation by applying your knowledge dynamically.
You repeating a movement by memory is not skill.

A random spread will make you dynamically work against the recoil in such a way where you constantly correct for where the bullet should land, rather than doing movement by memory. That's literally the difference between playing chess (skill) and playing simon says (memory)

>>717254296
COD basically set the standard for satisfying "realistic" gunplay or whatever you want to call it.
People just think they get cool points for hating it.

>>717254669
>A random spread will make you dynamically work against the recoil in such a way where you constantly correct for where the bullet should land
if it's a random spread you can't correct it you fucking genius

>>717254731
true for cod1 when it actually had recoil to work against rather than the laserguns in modern iterations

>>717254669
Dumbest post of the thread.

>>717255561
except he's right

>>717241634 (OP)
situational awareness is more important

I want everyone ITT to go and full auto a rifle at a stationary target 50m away. You literally will only hit ONE bullet and it won't be where you think you were aiming.
You retards can't even hit that target single fire either; lmao.

>>717255989
now translate that into gameplay go

>>717255989
>implying I won't fire while prone

>>717256073
You can try, but you'll still miss.

>>717241634 (OP)
>waaaaah games should change to cater to my sorry ass
we used to stomp the heads of faggots such as this one

>>717255989
That's not fun for gameplay

>>717243089
>learn
>not a skill

>>717256563
>WAAAAH GAMES SHOULD ALLOW ME TO REPEATEDLY INPUT THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER SO I CAN WIN! I WANNA WIN THE VIBYO GAME!!! I WNANA WIN MUMMY! nOOOOOO YOU CANT USE A MACRO!!!!q FUCK YOU FUCKJ YOU FUCK YOU!!!!!!!1!!! MUMMY MUMMY HJE MADE A MACRO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>717250883
recoil isn't even random in real life

Is there a reason which a subreddit that is supposedly for hardcore gaymers seethe at the slightest hint of complexity?

>>717257962
Stop crying

>>717253631
This. I was there when bunny hopping was invented, and for a long time it was seen as a cheap, cheaty, nooby way to gain more speed. It wasn't pure enough. Now it's the standard because zoomies can't plau games if they aren't flying 100mph while watching tiktok and gooning.

i will never understand how CS is still so popular
to me it's such a dogshit abhorrent game no matter what angle you look it from

>>717259643
Maybe you should try playing games instead of being a /v/troondoomer

>>717259643
There was a time it was just 12 niggas vs 12 niggas on a large variety of maps just playing for fun. It was so fun, players were even allowed to dare communicate between the teams even in mic, an impossible concept in gaming today's hypercompetitive pretend esports era

>>717259643
Counter Strike was an alternative to Half Life, focusing more on tagging than gunplay
>>717260202
It was always 5v5 back then. Public lobbies were the ones that were 12v12 or to be precise 11v12, since one slot was reserved for the admin, lol. CSGO was literally like that too. Not sure about CS2, though

>>717259643
Yep, the gunplay and movement is some of the worst in gaming

>>717255989
>you don't understand, its hecking impossible to accurately shoot a firearm in full auto
you're a weakling

>>717241634 (OP)
zelda games would be better if sometimes when you swing your sword it doesn't swing

The people who want CS to change are the people who do not (and will not) play CS

>>717254127
someone has to

>>717261049
This is basically the life of fighting games.

>>717260038
i play games
>>717260202
>>717260694
old cs was okay with friends to fuck around, but i (well, we, as in my group of friends) still played hl1 mp way more, it's literally better in every way
>>717260773
yes, exactly
guns feel like shit, despite the nigh-instant TTK and the movement is clunky and terrible
the only justification i could find for it is that the fact that it's so barebones is the appeal, people treat it as the most "pure" fps because it just has basically nothing going for it besides aiming at the head, at most you have to learn where to throw grenades besides that, and the rest of the skill is basic team coordination

all guns should be semi auto, problem solved

>>717260856
>that
>accurate
it doesn't even show where the shots land

>>717260856
Not a gun fags but shouldn't you hold the magazine while firing in full-auto?

This thread is a prime example of why americans can't play CS for shit
Funny
>LE RECOIL IS LE BAD
Yeah, sure, we see you can't learn to play the game
This is why americans love nigger CoD and nigger Battlefield with no recoil

>>717261308
cod and battlefield also have recoil though

>>717242803
Just react to random recoil and stabilize it on the spot. It's much more skilled than using muscle memory.

>>717256036
>>717256841
project reality did it and it was the most unique FPS of all time.

>>717261340
MW3 had a bunch of whacky attachments sown the line, including a totally recoilless mod for an AK

it wasn't as busted as people thought because it fired slower and had more damage falloff at range

>>717260202
This. I have >1000 hours just in casual for this exact reason.
>>717260694
I think he's talking about the time before the stock game started in include the comp game type. So about halfway through CSS. Default used to be 10 mans plus 1 observer and the admin and it was far more relaxed and fun. Human admins could nuke hackers on sight without any bureaucracy. Economy and strategy was actually better. The actual gunplay was far worse, though, stuff like stuttering and tagging didn't exist and the MP5 was a laser pointer and a single guy with an AWP and extra ammo could own a site forever.

>original game wants spread to feel random, using a number generator for this is too much processor at the time so just give each weapon their own pattern to feel "random"
>aspie retards spend 10+ years learning these spray patterns just to get an edge over people trying to have fun
>this becomes normalized as aspie retards are allowed into hobbies en masse
>now valve has to keep this already cracked false randomization in every counter strike title or people will start to realize they spent years of their life learning bullet patterns instead of making relationships or living life and riot at valve HQ

>>717250883
>If it's random then it's not fair for everyone since someone could randomly get a worse pattern
You know even professional sports don't get this anal about random chance. Plenty of them start with a coin toss and wind is often a variable.

>>717241634 (OP)
>saved FPS
Considering that NO FPS games have been released since that tweet was posted, it's more like it LITERALLY killed FPS.

Who has that post of the real history of counter strike? That it was made by buttmad shit quake players so they added rng, removed bhopping etc.

>>717261776
>That it was made by buttmad shit quake players so they added rng
based. bring back casual fps

>>717243983
Which CS has random spray? Is it 1.6?
I've heard CSGO has spray patterns so players will sometimes aim at their opponent's feet to shoot them in the head but I've no clue if this is true.

>>717251075
It is perfectly relevant and you're very close to realizing something important.

>>717261776
Sounds completely legit with how ridiculously small the maps are in CS

Spray patterns are a core part of CS's gameplay indentity. Not every game needs to play the same. If you don't like it play something else

>>717261776
The insecure quakefags will show up and post it eventually anyway.

>>717242803
Planetside 2 and Battlefield Bad Company already figured this out, you just bias the recoil in particular ways that are unique to each gun

like one gun tends to pull to the left, another gun has a cone of fire that decreases over time, another has wide jitter that makes it useless at long range

each change in the recoil mechanics changes how the gun is used and makes the gun itself unique in the lineup on top of its damage stats

>>717261903
Source. 1.6 had set. Source was random. GO back to set with one very brief period of random spray.

>>717251076
So you're saying to remove all skill and make the game play itself because any skill requirement gives people who have the skill an unfair advantage.

>>717253158
>/v/
>playing videogames

No one wants to admit that Valorant is the better competitive FPS game.

>>717261584
damn is that actually the reason why spray patterns were created?? That makes a lot of sense

>>717262707
Thanks.

the fucking ego swinging give it a rest

>>717253914
probably the same retard avatarfagging

>>717241634 (OP)
While they're at it, they should:
>make it so that you get to choose where you throw all of your utility via a radius on a radar that comes up when you are going to throw
>remove all of the weapons except for the starting pistols, the Desert Eagle, the main rifles, the Nova, the MP9/MAC-10 and the AWP
>give players in-game snap tap since hardware exists for that already
>turn on sv_autobhop or whatever it is since players that play capped at 64 FPS theoretically can hit perfect hops
>remove Inferno, dust2, overpass, nuke, ancient and train from Active Duty, only one map is required
because learning fundamental aspects of the game is lame and they shouldn't even bother if it's just a gate to the gameplay
before Twitter turned into 4chan-light we used to shit on Twitter threads relentlessly and maybe if this particular dude doesn't like the mechanic, maybe don't play the game then instead of trying to cut mechanical skill from what truly is the soccer of video games

>>717265892
>the soccer of video games
the only thing CS has in common with soccer is that third worlders love it, don't compare this shit game to it

>>717250883
>If it's random then it's not fair for everyone
guns aren't fair
>If it's nonexistent then it takes no skill
there's like 20 other skill factors in CS

>>717266040
This is going to come as a bit of shock, but that's exactly the fucking point and why I make that comparison. It's only been recently that CS has had more demanding spec requirements but ultimately previous versions of CS have been so prominent in the third-world because as far as competitive games go, the previous iterations of the game could run on the shittiest PCs which is more or less the same as to how literally any village with a ball and some markers for a goal can play soccer. Because networking is so low effort as well and easy since servers can be made by individuals, there's also a huge scene for local play in internet cafes. One of the worst things about CS2 is that due to its requirements, people are being left out- but are still welcome to play CS:S or 1.6. And this is all to say that this isn't as a result bad game design, it's just introducing technical skill that you'd see in something like soccer as a physical skill.
And as far as the first world goes, there are still plenty of local tournaments on the NA East Coast for amateurs (the Columbus ones, the NSG ones, LANETS, laundersLAN when it goes properly and doesn't fuck half of the participants like the last time) that it truly feels like it's the most popular, only losing mostly to how ubiquitous fighting games are mostly for the same sort of accessibility reasons.

>>717265892
unironically yes for bhopping and snap tap, just more jank exploits that could be legitimised or removed entirely

>>717266654
oh, in that case i guess it makes sense

>>717251589
>RNG, game mechanics like spray patterns: >:o
>RNG, genetics IE reaction time and age: :|

>>717266676
>bhop
What they should do is make it more consistent so that it's not impossible to land on subtick. I have not hit a single good bhop on CS2.
>strafe-cancelling
If you auto-cancel things automatically you give even more advantage to people attacking who otherwise should have to learn how to strafe-cancel while peeking certain angles to get entries, and not everyone should be expert entry fraggers with perfect peeks until you hit the actual higher tiers of playing. I personally think removing it/auto cancelling it is a detriment to the personal growth of a player in the game.

>>717267213
maybe there shouldn't be these esoteric momentum cancels or fast jumps in the first place if it turns out that everyone being able to do them is too game breaking

>>717266835
Yeah my friends/teammates and I have lengthy conversations about this sort of thing whenever we go to tournaments, and CS as a game/gameplay concept even if it isn't called Counter-Strike and is not Valve run is probably going to outlast any of the generations currently. So long as there's a network connection and 10 PCs that can reasonably run any game in the future, Counter-Strike is going to live on in the same way people kicking around a ball is going to live on and has.
I have over 5,000 hours on my main account on GO/CS2 alone now over 12 years of playing (there are times where I've had to stop playing because of other interests or just life stuff) and personally as a player, the best thing about CS is that there's always something new to learn individually or if I have different teammates and how best to synergize with them in the server.
So this is all to say that my viewpoint on CS should be/is extremely refined to where I can look at an aspect and say "that's quality" or "that's terrible", and a lot of the time /v/ has it wrong in the sense that a lot of the core things about the game are the way that they are because it adds something to the overall understanding of the game in a meaningful way.

people complaining about bhop are a bunch of skill-less fags. just leave it in as it is and increase the jumping inaccuracy.

>>717254669
Memory and reaction speed are both skills, brainlet.