Thread 717385615

>reach a fork in the road
>you know you need to take the wrong way first because it's obviously gonna have some reward at the end
>the road you chose goes on for way too long, so you figure it had to have been the right way and turn back
>turns out you were wrong and you either have to backtrack yet again or get locked into some cutscene
Does anyone else hate this type of level design? Expedition 33 was filled with this shit

no. missable content is desireable

>>717385687
sure but this binary right way/wrong way shit fucking sucks

>he doesnt inch forward on every path running back and forth until he finds the loot on the optional path
lmaoing at you

>>717385615 (OP)
>turns out you were wrong and you either have to backtrack yet again
This shouldn't be a problem in the age of wikis and youtube walkthroughs. I always look up what the reward is so I don't waste my time for a fucking potion.

>>717385687
kill yourself

>>717385615 (OP)
That's not a new phenomenon.

>>717385917
yeah you're right and i was wrong when i wrote that this was a completely new phenomenon that has never been seen in games before in my OP

>>717385615 (OP)
>Most treasure chests are useless healing potions
>Stop caring and just rush to the finishline

>>717385982
You are wise to admit when you were wrong.

>>717385615 (OP)

Yeah it sucks. I don't necessarily like hand holding but the main path should always look a lot more accessible. Or rather, if a path is optional, you shouldn't be locked out of it unless you've been explicitly told you're not returning to an area and given the chance to go back and search. Like KOTOR and such.

>Once you leave X you will not be returning. Are you sure you want to leave?

I didn't miss" the content, I was tricked. I see two paths and I want to explore the one that's not the main path but the game fucks you. There's a difference.

>>717385776
that method would lock you into the boss fight before reaching the treasure in OP's image

>>717385776
>makes sure he loots all the chests

>>717385795
Might as well just watch a playthrough and pretend you played it

>>717385615 (OP)
Could be worse

>>717385840
heh, stick to your hallway simulators kiddo.

>>717386352
You're so much more of a gamer for spending an extra hour on this level collecting trash from chests, bro.

>>717385615 (OP)
I've had this problem with dozens of RPG and 33 was an example of NEVER doing this, as you might take the boss path by mistake but it was extremely clearly telegraphed when you were reaching a cutscene/boss zone and you had plenty of time to backtrack before reaching the cutscene point.

>>717386196
the devious part of this is that it you ever opened that chest on that save file, even if you don't save, it's over
it actually writes data to the save file as soon as you open the chest indicating that it was opened and even if you do a soft reset, they'll still be opened
now, granted it doesnt matter because it happens right at the beginning of the game
it's just funny that that functionality is even present

sometimes i dont go check every corner and pick up everything
why bother! its supposed to be fun
>what if you accidentally make the game too hard by missing the item people on reddit say is really good
too hard? reddit? buddy i think you got the wrong guy

>>717386652
i dont remember it specifically locking you out from getting that treasure later, but every single level was littered with forks where one of the paths had a reward at the end which then looped you back. so instead of having a nice flow in the exploration, i was constantly running back and forth making sure i didnt miss out on a cool picto

>>717386550
if you dont like the game you dont have to play it

>>717385687
get cancer and die :)

>>717385615 (OP)
What you are really saying is that you want to just have the player stand on an escalator the entire time that takes them through the entire game

>>717387350
no, hide the secrets instead of just placing them in one of two paths. show the item somewhere in some unreachable place, let the player wonder how to get there, and it's up to the player to decide if he wants to try and find the way there or keep progressing.

GOTY

>>717387942
What's this? Biblically accurate dungeon design?

>>717387942
>hmm what's that ledge?
>accidentally sequence break

>>717387627
secret is hidden on the other path :)

>>717385615 (OP)
I actually keep going and If I trigger a cutscene then I know that I was in the right path and backtrack.

>>717387942
I loved your work on FFXIII, gamedev anon

>>717387942
>>717388320
>final level is tantalizingly out of reach from the first level
Kino.

>>717385840
>>717387162
Autism
I have never once cared that I missed a random potion I will never use that was in a hallway 5 levels ago
>but it gives a cheevo!!!1
You are mindbroken beyond help

>>717385615 (OP)
It's bad if the optional route is a dead end. You saw that shit a lot in Dark Souls 3 because it was a dog shit hallway simulator.

>>717385615 (OP)
this pic is what it feels like to pee after beating my meat dick 3 times back to back

>>717385615 (OP)
Just bust out the yellow paint and tell me which path is the right way.

>>717387942
now this i would play

real talk i think linear games might just be the route to go for me because i somehow manage to get lost in every single open world game. god help me if theres a fucking compass instead of a mini map

>>717385615 (OP)
Name this shitstain of a game.

>>717385615 (OP)
Is that a fucking uterus?

>>717389295
Expedition 33

>>717385687
Just because you missed out multiple contents in life (first kiss, prom, getting married, etc) doesn't mean its desirable for everyone else.

>>717390719
dont worry there's plenty of handholding AAA games for you to enjoy

>>717385615 (OP)
it bothered me till i was around 25
i used to use guides so i wouldn't miss any missable content, but then when i figured out that's extremely gay i just started playing things without consulting guides again and it was fun even if i missed stuff

i miss entire characters now, it's funny to look at discussions of a game when i'm done playing

>>717386029
>black probably stronk woman on the cover
Is Eiyuden woke? I was on the fence on buying it but I'll probably stick to Suikoden

>>717388889
>You saw that shit a lot in Dark Souls 3
I didn't because I don't play rollslop

>>717392721
The localization definitely is, so if you were thinking about playing it in English, don't bother.

>>717386196
>>717386678
qrd? what's in the chest? what does it do?

never played that one

>>717393001
nothing
everything

>>717393001
If you don't loot it, after a certain point of the game the mediocre loot is replaced with extremely powerful spear

>>717387942
Looks like a doujin womb...

>>717385687
I paid for the whole game.

>>717386748
What if you miss an optional boss fight or cutscene, frognigger?

>>717386678
I never knew this... based as hell.

>>717393914
then if that shit is good enough to try not to skip, it's worth saving until i play the game again in a decade
I'm still holding on to the dark souls 1 DLC area for a rainy day.

>>717385615 (OP)
This is only acceptable when "treasure" is not replaced by "save point"
More than once I've had to trudge through tons of bad guys, widdle away all my HP recovery items and instead of taking the correct route that leads to the "nearby save point" before a boss I wind up AT said boss and lose all that time.

Fuck you

>>717389463
where was this, tendie?

>>717385687
Missable content is fine if it doesn't count toward the 100% progression but it always does.
>ahah you missed a chest 50 hours ago, get fucked, replay the whole game to get the final secret ending

>>717385615 (OP)
>pic
The ice cavern classic.

>>717387942
This is unironically Tales of Vesperia

>>717385615 (OP)
>>717389295
>>717389068
>>717387942
name one JRPG without this, retard.
go play your walking simulator open world WRPG slop like the witcher and skyrim, fucking retarded normalfag subhuman

>>717394625
Persona 5

>>717394719
lol

>Missable content due to puzzles or stat requirements
I'm ok with this.
>OP situation
Niggerfaggots tongue my anus.

>>717394801
It's all visible on the minimap. You have to actively enter the boss custcene, it doesn't just trigger like the posts you're quote are saying.

>>717394916
Literally every boss has a save point and a huge arena, and nothing in the game is missable. You’d have to suffer from severe autism and be a gamer journalist to get lost and backtrack on an already linear map.

>>717395135
Exactly.

>>717385615 (OP)
>only two paths
>OP still gets lost and complains about backtracking
let’s just make movies at this point
Perguntar ao ChatGPT

>>717394625
Final Fantasy IV

>>717395336
Embarrassing.

>>717393001
there's 4 specific chests that if you open them, they change a different chest later on that holds the most powerful weapon in the game, and if you've hit that lockout your only option is to grind a different random chest with an insane mmo-tier droprate, idr the rate and too lazy to look it up but it's like 1/100000 tier with the spawn + droprate

tza fixes this though by removing that mechanic entirely and also letting you farm infinite amounts of any item from the trial mode

only my true oldfag niggas will remember

>>717389068
this is literally just every single dragon quest game i've played, massive fuckoff other path that leads to nothing, or maybe leads to mediocre loot you could've bought in the last town
hate jrpgs

>>717393104
is it explained why this occurs?

>>717393158
you can get the uber god spear withoyut that chest
it's a .001% drop ;^)

>>717396214
FF12 was just loaded with bullshit. Like the invisible treasure chest on the ship that had some 0.01% chance to spawn as well. How the FUCK would people know

>>717396594
those didn't exist in the original, i think they were just put in as a shitpost making light of all the other insane mmo-tier drops it already had

fucking zoomers

my favorite vidya maps are the ones that are 100% just hallways in terms of places you get to go, but force you to go through a maze of tight winding corridors that the game's controls weren't designed for (and designed so that you can only see like 2% of the map that matters at most) with a bunch of useless dead ends with maybe some minor potion or other borderline useless "reward", and go through a lot of them via forced backtracking, all in one arbitrary order

complete with random encounters out the ass and a bunch of mandatory filler fights that don't include any rewards worth the time

pic unrelated

>>717385615 (OP)
Quick save at the fork, load if you accidentally went down the critical path first

>>717395596
i never got far enough in this game to get a sense of the dungeon design.
starting monastery, field, town, forest. that's as far as i got

>>717385615 (OP)
This is why I don't mind when the game gives me dialogue or a pop-up that says "Hm...seems like a powerful enemy might be near."
Just fucking tell me and I'll walk away and do whatever else I need to do, thank you for your consideration. Obviously it's different if it's meant to be a surprise fight you aren't ready for, but those are rare enough as it is.

>>717393697
then play the whole game.

>>717395596
I only remember getting turned around all the time from the victory jump as a kid.

>>717385615 (OP)
This is why FF has visible save points. Retard proof.

>>717385615 (OP)
>Expedition 33
wasn't filled with this shit if you actually listened to the objective or looked at the landmarks within the level
>all the other games
yeah they sometimes do a terrible job. they should add a harry potter revelio which shows a golden path towards the main objective and disappears quickly so u know what to do first

>>717393141
>seven ovaries

>>717397867
>to get a sense of the dungeon design.
It gets a bit retarded. Doesn't seem daunting when you look at it but the game is a resource battle and heaven help you if you get turned around. Not to mention this was only map 1 out of like 4 in this 1 dungeon

>>717394535
>100% progression
bro treats games as a checklist chores simulator

>make the boss drop the good loot
>treasure chests are simply packed with restorative goods to compensate for the additional battles you undertook
checkmate, developers

>>717400318
we've reached the point where people are actually asking for le witcher's instinct

>>717400613
You can blame games like FFX and X-2 for that.

If you missed 2 Al Bhed primers in Al Bhed Home then you have to restart the game, otherwise you wont be able to finish Rin's sidequest and get 99x Underdog's Secret. Not finishing that sidequest makes a difference between 3 weapons with Triple Overdrive or not.

If you didn't sleep at the inn on the airship at each chapter then you miss out on a bonus cutscene and are hard stuck on 99.4% completion. What ends up happening is you missing out on True Ending.

>>717385615 (OP)
>MGS3
>reward is camo that makes the boss fight easier

>>717385615 (OP)
This is why Fromsoft are far ahead of everyone. Side paths always loop back to the main path so that the forward momentum is never broken, and boss arenas are highly telegraphed.

>>717389068
Farcry 4
I want crab rangoon but all the chinese places that stayed open until 4 am close at 9 now after covid

>>717401701
what game?

>>717389068
>"Hey man, we're at the final stretch of the game, but boss said we need to add at least another 5 hours of playtime."
>"I got you bro."

>>717402042
The Golden Sun special

>>717385615 (OP)
The easiest way to avoid this is to add a save point at the start of the right side's path.

>>717385615 (OP)
The Trails series actually fixed this a decade ago by putting in an item you can equip to make all treasure chests visible on the map (psychos like >>717385687 can just not equip it) and putting progress behind doors that warn you that they'll trigger progress and giving you the option to turn back.

ezpz

>>717402348
>Save
>Collect item
>Fight Boss
>Die
>Refight Boss
>Win
>Realize you didn't pick the item back up before entering the boss fight and now you're locked out

>>717385615 (OP)
The worst version of this? The optional side of the fork isn't open until NG+

What now, faggots

>>717402042
this + every chest has a cancer fight

>>717385615 (OP)
i hate this shit because i'm a sperg who feels the need to snatch up and look at everything in an RPG. i think the undertale genocide route was making fun of people like me

>>717385615 (OP)
Actually have had a little dilemma as I design the levels in our game because as a player I'm someone who hates to miss the side road for the one little extra piece of treasure, but because of the nature of our game's branching map you will be making that commitment routinely and not seeing the other paths until your next playthroughs. The other challenge is designing enough engaging content to make those paths feel like neither was the "correct" path but rather just a "different" one.

People will realistically replay it and try new builds while also trying new routes so I can rest easy in that regard, but it still is something I worry about distressing players over, seeing as I'm the sort who would also worry about what I missed by not going left or right at a certain point.

>>717402826
>First playthrough
>Do whatever the fuck I want, make mistakes, miss items, struggle through areas I'm not supposed to be in, make stupid choices with character dialogues, get a weird/bad ending
>Second playthrough (If the game is good enough on a blind run to go back to it)
>Do all the stuff I didn't do last time

Games are supposed to be fun. Only faggots care about 100% or getting gay little items to make things easier.

>>717385615 (OP)
the right and wrong path were almost always clearly indicated, with the right path having more lights and shit. theres like maybe 5 times in the whole game where thats not the case.

>>717402826
>Sprint past the monster
>Open the chest and gain invincibility
>Sprint away from the monster and into the boss room
>Game despawns the level 99 monster

gg ez

>>717386094
that's cope by the midwise or the slightwiserthanaverage
the truly wise are never wrong

>>717385687
It's crazy people are disagreeing with you.
Old JRPGs had a sense of mystery and wonder because if you didn't talk to some random kid in the corner of the second town in disc 1 then you couldn't get the ultimate weapon in disc 4.
>I PAID FOR THE GAME! I'M ENTITLED TO THE ULTIMATE WEAPON
Naaah shut your fucking face. That makes games cooler. People used to talk about games organically. "Dude, did you find the Super Spear? I had to back track to the first dungeon when I got near the end of the game its so cool!" 'What!? No way, total bullshit! But did you get the cutscene if you take these two party members to the dock? They say some crazy stuff about the final boss...'
Nowadays it is
>HEY GROK, TELL ME THE BEST BUILD AND EVERY SECRET WEAPON AND HOW TO ACCCESS EVERY SIDE QUEST AND HOW TO GET EVERY ACHIEVEMENT LET ME FOLLOW A GUIDE WHEN I PLAY BECAUSE IF I MISS A RANDOM SPELL OR WEAPON OR RING THAT I DON'T FUCKING NEED TO BEAT THE GAME THEN I GOT CHEATED!!!!!
Yeah. Sure. If the game is designed that you NEED the Ultimate weapon and if you don't get it you're softlocked then that is retarded. In 99.9% of cases you can very reasonably beat the game without it and it can make a second playthrough more interesting when you can see this secret content for yourself.

>>717385687
FPWP end your life you worthless nigger ape.

>>717402826
>Spend 10 hours memorizing the boss patterns and finding a way to beat it through sheer skill, cheese, or other tactic
>Get some OP item
>Whine that the rest of the game is now too easy

>>717401701
which fromsoft game is this?

>>717404418
Largely speaking, games are not made for people like us. Achievements are a pretty good reason among others that it wasn't enough to just beat a game.

I personally played FF8 for the first time 2 years ago and ended up really enjoying it even though I wasn't strong enough to handle Ultima Weapon and didn't get all the stuff the game has. I think I only even looked up the smallest stuff at the end of the game because I missed something kind of significant and wanted to see where I missed it, etc.

Playing the game you want to play it and having your own novel experience is more fun than the meta bullshit that is so pervasive now. FFXIV by contrast used to have a lot more player expression but eventually it became optimized and homogenized, you can't experiment and have fun in the harder content because it MUST BE PERFECT and according to the raid plan instead of how a real FF game should be: show up and fight your hardest to prevent your party from having 0 HP.

This notion of optimizing the fun out of stuff is so bad for gamers and they don't even understand that. It's not about fun, it's about doing it the way the experts tell you to do it. I make my own dumb challenge, have fun, and put my toy (spelled: videogame) away until next time.

>>717404850
I just don't get it. Like I understand it for competitive games. I understand it for later playthroughs. But I know people, like actually know them in real life and speak to them and I know they are humans with brains, who do not like to play some games at release because they want to wait for guides. I remember when Elden Ring came out I jumped into it totally blind, just talking with a few people and it was incredible. Then I try to talk to some other friends and they LITERALLY say "Ah yeah dude I am waiting for someone to make a guide of where the items are so I can make a good dex build"
Dude, just fucking play the game and put points into dex. You'll find shit. Why do you need to find out the best sword that does the most damage when it is like 5-10% more damage than some easily acquirable shit you're not gonna miss?
Or my brother even, ER was his first Fromsoft game and he played blind and that was awesome. He then played DS1 after with fextralife open on his other monitor and I just don't know why.

>>717403182
Don't worry anon, as long as a save point is anywhere close I will save, check the path, get locked into it, reload, check the other path, get locked into it, reload, check the first path again (now knowing it's a decision point), and then weigh the options evenly while saving in a new slot knowing that if the next decision of this nature would massively benefit the other way I absolutely will reload for the other version.

>>717404107
>can’t open chests whilst in combat

>>717405180
shit game then
dropped and refunded
Same goes for games that don't let you open menus or fast travel because "an enemy is nearby" (they're 5 rooms away).

>>717405017
It's weird as fuck bro. They basically think that unless they do it the "ideal" way they will be shamed.
When it comes to competitive games, I think that's bad too because it means the developers did not balance properly. Ideally you have a game filled with characters that are all equal more or less so that it comes down to self-expression.

But to your point, I'm actually also concerned about this min/max bullshit affecting our game as well because the skilltree in the game I described in >>717403182 has already got certain skills in our demo that are so busted you can break the game, and with that in mind I am worried about people defining a "best" build and preaching to players that they MUST do this. Or that they'll define a "meta" route along with a "meta" build.

Sure, if you want to be a speedrunner and finish it as quickly as possible, that is definitely a factor to consider. But games that have hugely varying gameplay experiences and force you to adapt on your feet, this is much more fun for me. Some people just enjoy being told what to do and how to do it.

>>717385687
>>717404418
A player missing out content because you have to make a story choice like
>Will you have character A or character B join the party?
>Which protag will you use?
>Are you going to be good or evil?
is perfectly fine and makes for a very replayable game, same goes for extra NG+ superboss battles and similar challenges.
A player missing out on content because of dogshit dungeon designs is something that only shit games do.

Learn the difference.

>>717405084
The "right" choice will have a lot more to do with the experience you yourself want to have and the journey you want to go on. The less information you have, the better. There isn't a right or wrong choice, there's just the choice you make, and as the world around you reacts to the things you are doing, that isn't even really your problem beyond how much it directly impacts you moment to moment.

So long as you survive, nothing else matters.

>>717385687
>missable content is desireable
Of course, but there's a right and wrong way to do it. OP example is not it.