Thread 718370014

>literary criticism and discussion
>analysis of the characters, the historical context surrounding the author and the events depicted in the story, and what the book says about human nature as a whole
>vidya criticism and discussion
>this game made me cry when I played it because I was 13, also yikes that line didnt age well
Will vidya analysis ever catch up? Is there even a game that deserves to be analysed to the level of Shakespeare's works?

>vidya analyses are interesting when stories and themes are analyzed :)
you misunderstand the medium entirely. vidya analysis is interesting when the countless intertwined elements of gameplay are properly analyzed. even the best stories in vidya are just fluff to the important element--HOW the game tells the stories.

>>718370314
Uh oh, snoys aren't going to like this one

>>718370014 (OP)
i watched that 7+ hour long analysis video on Death Stranding 1 and I still don't understand what the fuck was going on in that game.

>>718370014 (OP)
Tiger would fuck up Lion and became the king of Africa

>>718370014 (OP)
Vidya analysis has to currently struggle through multiple issues
>Initial tone was set by literal paid shills that don't play games and are mostly subservient to the marketing arm of major corpos AKA "games journalists"
>After this culture started getting dismantled somewhat, their platform was already starting to incentivize ad-optimized content, so they were immediately sucked into another bullshit paradigm of engagement bait
>After a certain point (mid-2000s) the prevalent direction of games became a loosely stapled together pile of unrelated elements driven by appeal to the lowest common denominator.
>We are still shucking off the idea that "cinematic games" are anything but poorly optimized, overbudgeted trainwreck garbage under poor management
>Current perception of games still doesn't pay too much attention to ludotography.
Maybe once everything settles down, AAA finally dies and engagement driven social media also dies.

>>718370014 (OP)
no, and that's honestly for the best because hacks ruined vidya with their whole "VIDYA CAN TOTALLY BE ART" thing

>>718370728
low bar

even i could fuck up a lion

>>718370861
>that huge difference with a goose
huh

>>718370846
Agreed. And even if you wanted to see it as an artform, it's basically in its early life compared to literature which has existed for millennia

>vidya attempting to be art is always pretentious
ENTER

>>718370965
brits are exposed to geese more than most americans. they have learned to fear the honk.

>>718370965
most people are ignorant of the carnage geese can cause

The problem with videogames as a medium is that very few devs actually try to utilize its strengths, like interactivity and player agency.
You can often see AAA games trying to make a sort of hybrid between an action game and a movie, and neither side really compliments the other. How much will you miss by skipping all cutscenes and only going through the gameplay, or otherwise just looking up cutscenes without ever playing it? In that regard I would place something like Papers Please as an example of a good use of videogames as a medium, where you have a limited but clear player agency and interactivity.

One of the more valid points against the video games as art argument is that no real critics of video games has emerged like it has for literally every other art
artistic endeavor

>>718370861
>70% of people think they can beat a house cat

i didn't know that much of the population was retarded

>>718371128
game critics with above-average intelligence and a deep understanding of the medium are out there but their reviews are written (usually in their own blogs) and of no interest to the outlets for the very stupid gamer masses like IGN, Polygon, GamesRadar etc.
there are some knowledgeable video-format reviewers out there like yahtzee but they always opt for very short and snappy as opposed to nuanced and thorough reviews... because that's how you make money in this industry.

>>718370314
Noone is capable of doing this because there has been absolutely no groundwork for the critical theory of games as systems like there have been for other mediums and their respective "essences". Its all been at best hodgepodge guesswork and surface level comparisons to previously successful systems without critical understanding of any underlying principles.

>>718370968
The Last of Us and its consequences have been a disaster for video games.

>>718370014 (OP)
Well first vidya writing has to catch up. It's got a long way to go before it can reach the levels of pretentiousness that literary greats are held to. Then, we'll have to wait for the current generations of "journalists' to die out, and hope a better crop replace them. Give it a few centuries, and maybe vidya discourse will reach the level of current literary discourse.

>>718370014 (OP)
That clip really needs sound so you can hear the tiger begin to tell his bro to fuck off but then resign himself to his fate

>>718371402
>nobody can tell stories via gameplay because LE HECKIN' ACADEMICS havent analyzed it
Imagine havikg this level of brainrot

>>718371402
Of course there is, you're just unaware (as are 99% of gamers) that people specialize in such a thing and thus you can pursue formal education in it.
Now, to your credit, I doubt Indie devs pretty much ever attempt to innovate from any starting point other than guesswork and comparisons (and AAA doesn't meaningfully innovate). Pertaining to innovation, there's a clear disconnect between games industry education and actual game development in the industry.

>>718371784
nta but stop being such a drooling sperg

>>718370861
Well, this is self-reported and obviously subject to bias.

>>718370014 (OP)
>Will vidya analysis ever catch up?
It already has

>>718370014 (OP)
Fuck me, Tigers really are bigger than Lions.

>>718371059
the other week I was driving home from work and I saw an unusual amount of traffic before one of the freeway exits I normally pass by
at the front of all this traffic I see a cop car stopped in front of the exit and a cop in a standoff with this goose blocking the exit. The goose is just standing there with its wings wide open in battle stance honking and shit
wish I took a video

>>718371053
Art comes from the mind of an individual. The more people involved the less artistic integrity there is. Games are toys for children made for the sole purpose of profit. Thus will never be art.

>>718372031
>argument disintegrates if one game exists that wasn't made for profit
Not exactly a strong point there, is it? Not in a world filled with freeware.

>>718371910
Ebert's longest review was about 1,400 words long, which would take roughly 10 minutes to narrate.
faggots like picrel are genuinely as retarded as they come.

>>718372084
cave story is closer to art than TLOU

>>718370014 (OP)
Literary analysis isn't really that good, I'm afraid.
I really don't know what the missing ingredient is for a good analytical industry/culture, because it's never good.
If you have too niche of a subject or field, then there is a small clique of critics that can easily be captured by a singular influential retard, infected with a crackpot ideology, or just devolve into solipsistic ivory-tower elitism.
If the subject has too large an audience then that audience will by necessity be made of midwits and the critics will be drawn from this population, thus being a weather vane for the winds of populist retardation.
If the subject field is just in the middle, it's full of deranged elitists detached from the audience as well as lowest-common-denominator populists.

Also that's a big fucking tiger. Most tigers are sumatran or bengal ones so are usually smaller than lions but he's paw-mogging.

>>718372031
It helps no one to be reductive my 90iq friend

normal people don't play games for the story. have you noticed how retarded people sound when they say stuff like "the binding of isaac sucks because its all about how religion is bad"

>>718371059
>>718371072
I think you faggots are just too much pussies about getting in trouble for drop kicking a stupid faggot bird in front of others

>>718371809
>I doubt Indie devs pretty much ever attempt to innovate from any starting point other than guesswork and comparisons
And that's a good thing. Innovation in art does not spring from "hard knowledge" or training in "the rules", it comes from having a personal connection with the art that comes before. Technique can be trained, passion and connection cannot.

>>718372031
>Art comes from the mind of an individual.
lmao what a retarded and arbitrary line to draw. never have i seen someone make this claim, because it is unreasonable and cannot be substantiated. is film not art because you have massive film crews with artistic decisions being made by directors, editors, script writers, actors, set designers, costume designers, lighting designers, and many more aspects to the creation of a film? if a game has a single developer (such as cave story) is it now art?

>>718372090
ok Zoom Zoom better get back to your subway surfer before you die of boredom reading this text

>>718372140
I think they're retarded because they misunderstood Isaac and not because they're liking/disliking it over the story.