Thread 718625110

This is ultimately why fantasy games are better than sci-fi. It requires less brainpower for you to be immersed.

Physics nigga not physichs

All memes aside I love when a game/movie/book starts mixing real history/science with fiction, in a way that makes me start questioning my own knowledge or wondering if some of the fictional parts are actually true. As examples I'd say MGS3 does this a lot at the start and so does 999. On the anime side Baki does it all the time, as does Jojo occasionally.

I also did a lot of research on this and apparently there is no nomenclature for this type of writing. If it were up to me I'd call it hyperrealism.

>>718625408
> Hyperrealism.
Baki is post-realism thoughbeit and you are a moron as expected of a MetalGearSolid shit eater, lmao. Especially with your reddit tier *tips fedora* type of shit comment.

>>718625110 (OP)
There's nothing stopping fantasy writers from being just as autistic about realism as sci-fi, and nothing stopping sci-fi writers from going "It just works"

>>718625110 (OP)
Because midwits will start to make sci-fi unfun as soon gets something wrong with retarded facts.

Sci-fi is great if you don't engage with anyone.4nt48

>>718625408
Megumin is hotter

>>718625590
I don't think it's post-realism

Jojo is a great example of post-realism but not when it is lying about physics

>>718625704
Its typical for an Aquafag to be a bread-tuber tier leftist from reddit who thinks they are clever because of their own fandom without having media literacy at all to back up for it. Crusader is the based and redpilled choice.

>>718625110 (OP)
As if most sci-fi isn't "it just works" with technobabble that makes absolutely no sense to someone who's familiar with the words in it.

>>718625110 (OP)
That's not how magic works

Sci-fi but with some light magic elements

>>718625743
John Wick 1 for example is a great example of something that's Hyperrealism. Things taken to the absolute legitimate peak that could happen despite being cinematic and grounded at the same time.

>>718625110 (OP)
gee, it's almost like sci-fi has to be coherent and based on logic and science while fantasy worlds let you make up shit as you go and justify it with more bullshit you pull out of your ass later

>>718625110 (OP)
>he doesn't study physics out of personal interest

Sci-Fi: Super-accelerated quantum neutrons powering the gravity generator
Fantasy:
Every act of magic arises from five irreducible principles that cannot be violated without risking cataclysmic paradoxes.
Axiom of Phase Inversion: Energy drawn from one existential phase must be returned in its antipodal phase.
Axiom of Resonant Reciprocity: Any fluctuation in a target matrix creates an equal counter-fluctuation in at least two ancillary matrices.
Axiom of Temporal Integrity: Spells extending beyond a single subjective moment require binding chronomantic anchors.
Axiom of Fractal Equivalence: Macrogestures map to microgestures via self-similar rune fractals.
Axiom of Entropic Bounds: All transformations increase global entropy by a calculable quantum.

Magic flows through four nested, overlapping energy fields—each with its own vibration and paradox profile.
Matrix Resonance (Hz) Core Affinity Paradox Risk
Liminal 314.16 Transmutation High
Radiant 62.83 Illumination Moderate
Phasal 1618.03 Temporal Flux Severe
Null 0.00 Entropic Collapse Extreme


Ethereal matrices fracture into discrete “essences” harvested at specialized nodal points in reality.
Seven Core Essences: Vitalis, Tenebra, Aetheron, Chronis, Luxis, Obscura, Entropis.
Thirteen Node Classifications: Prime, Shadow-convergent, Temporal-echo, Paradox dampener, etc.
Node Activation requires precise alignment of five planetary, stellar, and sub-dimensional vectors.

Spell formulas are encoded in multi-layered glyph arrays drawn in negative space, then reinforced with mnemonic polyphony.
Primary Glyph Families: Volute, Serrate, Palisade, Vortex.
Sigil Overlays: Up to nine transparent layers, each shifting at a quarter-turn between incantation phases.
Scriptus Obscura: A parallel written cipher that inverts meaning if read under divergent luminal conditions.

>>718625408
Any time I see historical fiction, I just get autistic about what equipment they were using. For example if a character was using a ball point pen in 1945.

>>718625110 (OP)
And space art style/aesthetics are just alot gayer than blood and iron kino.

>>718626020
becoming an engineer is the easiest job, if I were to study physics I would just rather employ myself at some physics/engineering college.

>>718625110 (OP)
Not all sci-fi is hard sci-fi. There are series written by actual physicists and then you have the most popular sci-fi franchise of all time Star Wars which is just space magic. Star Trek is just technobabble. Even more grounded sci-fi series either hand wave or ignore technological aspects of their universe. Hard sci-fi is the exception rather than the norm. The author of this comic is an idiot and thinks basic concepts in physics that are sufficient to write a sci-fi story are overly complex. You can't write fantasy without any prior knowledge either. You need to know the common fantasy tropes and a bit about medieval times that fantasy is usually based around.

neither is about realism
here's the true way to pick what genre to write
scifi if you want to nerd out about technology
fantasy if you wanna nerd out about history

>>718625110 (OP)
and in the end neither are even close to realistic which makes left a dumb nerd

>>718625408
Fuck I'm curious too I love that trope

>>718625110 (OP)
>Fantasy has bad worldbuilding

>>718625110 (OP)
sci-fi has lower lows and higher highs compared to fantasy
a truly great sci-fi is better than any fantasy

>>718625110 (OP)
i hate when lore is background noise or cool stuff they won't show in game

>>718626564
recommend one sci fi book
you have one chance

A lot of fantasy, atleast the good stuff, borrows from: folklore, religion, mysticism, history, ethnology, and philosophy.

>>718626289
engineering is applied physics, guy

>>718625408
It's hard and soft science fiction

L Ron Hubbard books are considered hard sci fi because it tries to tackles problems with real physics theories

Dune is considered soft science fi because its mostly about psychology and cultural implications.

>>718625110 (OP)
>pace opera
>logic
The quantum teleporter just works.

Fantasy has been derivative garbage sloppa since Tolkien.

Sci-fi is only 99% dogshit, with the occasional gem about once every second decade or so, ever since Journey to the center of Earth (written like two centuries ago)

>>718625110 (OP)
>scifi
the soft variant will just use "Bullshitium-114" element to solve most plot contrivances
>how does it make ship fly across the stars, it just punches through space lol
likewise magic in fantasy setting can be made as complex as wish
>needs specific weather/ingredients/overuse kills the caster/uses your own life force to fuel it

>>718625110 (OP)
I don't know why fantasy fags get so defensive whenever SF is mentioned.
Is it inferiority complex?

>>718625408
>Baki does it all the time
In retrospect maybe I shouldn't have googled that nitroglycerin factoid from Baki to see if it's true

>>718625408
This piqued my curiosity. I just looked it up in TV Tropes and they just call it "Weird Science".

>>718626653
Not the same thing non-sci fi works also do this

>>718625110 (OP)
Except all modern "fantasy" games/media in general it's just just "hurrr it's actually le really advanced technology and here is how it's explained in excruciatingly autistic detail so it's not fun and whimsical now :)"
Magic can never be magic anymore, it's so gay. And normaltroons make it this way too because they all clap like retarded seals at the systems being explained, for their love of powerscaling tier faggotry, where everything needs an essay explanation in-universe.

Fantasy anime tend to be difficult to talk about because the world building is SO flimsy and arbitrary and reliant on tropes like Frieren.

Then the default is you try your best to ignore the setting and try to absorb enjoyment from the visuals or character drama or hitler defeating the jews

>>718625110 (OP)
it's called attention to detail and more proof that scifi creators give a shit

>>718626692
>Bullshitium-114
Actually it was Element-115, Elerium.

>>718625408
it took me way too many baki episodes to start suspecting that the writers were fucking with me, I think what really did it in was when that guy became old as fuck after losing and the doctors were like "ah yes science knows this phenomena really well"

>>718625110 (OP)
>I am a lazy ass consoomer who can't be arsed to throw a coherent set of world rules together
Weird flex

>>718626608
I was talking about games and anime which I have more experience with, the only sci-fi book I've read was neuromancer which I'm guessing it's shit among the actual great ones

>sci-fi
>"here's this thingmajig that warps negative space time using negative flux capacity fields to reverse time"

>>718626641
Exactly why I would only study physics as a hobby if I were planning to become an engineer (or game dev and needed some ideas to make a physics based engine for the game work better), your point didn't counter mine man.

>>718626979
yes it uses einsteins theory for gravity instead of newton's law in that time is related to speed

>>718626142
as a fellow autist, i appreciate you existing and giving me a reason to get so autistic about period-correct minor details in the first place

>>718626608
DICHRONAUTS
but go with Permutation city first, it's the best entry point into the best of hard sci fi

>>718625110 (OP)
Any opinions on the new trending "Science has gone too far!" meme studies?
Im talking about "Mirror Life" jewtube keeps recomending me

>>718626608
Martian Chronicles

>>718626608
Space Relations

>>718625408
Literature major here

What you are describing reminds me of Tzvetan Todorov's concept of "the fantastic". Look it up.
>Tzvetan Todorov's concept of "the fantastic" describes a literary genre where the reader experiences a moment of hesitation between a natural and a supernatural explanation for events

>>718627179
>theory
And my magic wand uses the theory of magic to do the same.

>>718627268
wtf
libgen is dead

>>718625110 (OP)
It's the writer's own fault for giving a shit about the opinions of fat neckbeard retards.

You think Gene Roddenberry gave a flying fuck about what some faggot ass simpsons-type comic book guy said?
It's all just magic in space.
But no... you got some homo writing crap like The Expanse or The Three Body problem. A completely cold visionless depiction of the genre.... but oh at least its """realistic"""

This redditification of sci fi needs to stop.
As well as the kitbashing slop.

>>718625110 (OP)
This is what tards making horrible adaptations of classic fantasy literature actually believe

>>718626020
we had the biggest asshole physics teacher back in school who fuckin ruined the whole field for me.
Same with electronics at university.

>>718627817
Yeah and the mirrors suck, use anna's archive for now

>>718625408
That's the fantastique genre, it's a dead genre because it requires a very high IQ. It thrives off the reader's critical thinking.

>>718625408
This but mixing real history, science, and magic

>>718625110 (OP)
All fanatasy is based on religion and ancient tales while sci-fi is based on science and recent history
That's the whole difference, wish more games could combine the two and actually make something interesting with it

Pretty much any fantasy game that isn't generic D&D will be based on a historical setting.

>>718625110 (OP)
These things are only problematic if your magic is harmless. Games should take from Dungeon Crawl Classics. Magic can misfire and seriously fuck anyone casting spells up.

>>718628323
>wish more games could combine the two
SMT does that

>>718628405
That's just warhammer fantasy

>>718628446
Well, smt 5 went full retard and chose fantasy and fucking sentai instead, absolutely 0 sci-fi elements
I blame Doi for that

>>718626828
That guy is the very definition of nothing ever happens. It is his middle name

>>718625408
Backbreaking nakadashi leglocking mating press sexo with Aqua

>>718628323
>Fantasy based on science and recent history
>Sci-fi based on religion
Games for these?

>>718625704
Dumber than the poster you’re responding to
Yunyun>the guild hostess>Aqua>Megumin>Wiz>Darkness

>>718626778
a lot of media and fan culture around media has become super obsessed with classifying things and creating extensive lore that explains the mechanics of everything we see in a given fictitious piece of media. People see phenomena or events in fiction as wikipedia articles rather than being, y'know, pieces of a fictitious story. It's gotten to the point where "fans" of certain pieces of fiction have massive blow out flame wars on the internet over what information gets put onto a wiki page, as if that shit is gospel or something.
I have no idea why this godawful trend ever became a thing, but I'm ready for it to be over now.

>>718628842
>Fantasy based on science and recent history
uhhh, Shadowrun?
>Sci-fi based on religion
dunno, Kenshi maybe?

>>718628842
Arcanum
Warhammer 40k/ EYE divine Cybermacy

>>718625957
>John Wick
>hyperrealism
lmao

>>718625802
Why the fuck are you so mad at his post? What did you even perceive as "thinking they are clever" in it? NTA but it sounds like you have some massive inferiority complex.

>>718625110 (OP)
>Try to put real world science into your sci-fi world
>Will be endlessly berated by fans for literally anything you get wrong, even if you were to somehow get everything perfect scientific progress will render all your theory work laughably outdated in maybe 20 years.
>Just do whatever but in space
>Fans love you for it
Anyway whoever drew the op image is a retard that's more likely than not projecting, especially when most good fantasy settings go autistic over accurate geography and culture.

>>718629221
>specially when most good fantasy settings go autistic over accurate geography and culture
Thanks, Tolkien

>>718627810
yea its proof that fantasy takes no effort to make

>>718629221
>Will be endlessly berated by fans
>even if you were to somehow get everything perfect scientific progress will render all your theory work laughably outdated in maybe 20 years.
Tell me one single time this happened. ONE SINGLE TIME.

I appreciate the way Star Wars does it. Pure fantasy under a sci-fi skin. It never tries to explain how anything works (at least not in the movies), you're just supposed to take everything at face value. I respect that.

>>718626778
Yeah, they should ditch all the modern magi-tech, and return to the whimsical fantasy settings like Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy 6, and Terranigma,

>>718629019
Yes, the "lorefaggotry", wiki flamewarring phase we are in now is by far one of the worst aspects of modern media culture in general. It's all devolved into powerscaling retardation or video essays from failed writers just summarizing what happened and putting their gay little interpretations on every series.
Bonus points for shit like Souls/Elden Ring specifically, where official media comes out and fucks over most of the fan theories that were hailed as gospel up until that point. Devs should do that more often. But, then again, you'll probably just have those failed writer video essayists screech out "DEATH OF THE AUTHOR", so they can continue pushing their headcanon as the real canon instead, as is usually the case.

>>718629405
>shitsawman asatroon
>likes star wars
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
FAT FUJIMOTO FAGGOT GROOMED YOUR BITCH SISSY ASS WITH HIS SHIT TASTE
KEKAROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Whole purpose of sci-fi is masturbatory aid for midwits over how totally super intelligent you are for understanding the references to pop-sci concepts you heard about on the latest episode of neil dick grease tyson the black science man and carl sagan. None of it really focuses on deep introstect and the understanding of the human condition, the whole purpose of the narrative arts.

Mind you tolkienshit fantasy is utter garbage too, but at least it's all mostly harmless obese landwhales who have no idea what a shower is because it's not included in their DnD guidebook.

>>718625110 (OP)
So fantasy is better because it caters to retards?

I can't really think of any games that are truly hard sci-fi

>>718629463
>Bonus points for shit like Souls/Elden Ring specifically
I hate vaati faggot so much it's unreal

>>718629405
>Tell me one single time
I'm stumped trying to think of a time when it didn't

>>718629179
if anon's definition of hyperrealism is Baki instead of John Wick we are doomed.
>>718629210
> I'm totally not the aquafag!!! WHY ARE YOU CALLING US (ME) DUMB?
Shut up already, Aquafags are the fans of the worst girl and it shows.

>>718629857
CoaDe, but even then it gets some things wrong. But if we're gonna be arguing over small intricacies then nothing can be considered hard-scifi.

>>718629928
Still waiting for an example. If you reply again without an example it is a concession and you lost. If you don't reply within 5 minutes it is a concession and you lost.

>>718629857
Does space engineers come close? And starfield did lean towards hard sci-fi, but they couldn’t commit.

>>718629457
There isn't an issue with it existing, it's that every series is like this now.
>>718629923
I wonder if he's realized just how parodyesque his contributions have made the overall vibe Fromsoft has now?

>>718629985
>everyone is aquafag
rent free

>>718629463
something I like to do sometimes is pull up the wookiepedia page of a random, one-off background character from a star wars movie and see the amount of low effort slop lore fetishists will cram onto his page.
Captain Needa is just one of Vader's generic goons, but you just know if you pull up his wookiepedia page you're gonna find a fucking novel-length biography about this fucking dude and how he's a force-sensitive, time-travelling demigod who is also secretly emperor palpatine's brother (they were separated at birth). But what's even worse than the fact that somebody decided to make some shitty licensed star wars fanfiction where this was the case is the fact that some wiki sped decided it was imperative that he collate all of this extensive information regarding irrelevant, tertiary star wars characters and paste it into a series of long, rambling, totally uninteresting wikipedia articles. It's mind-numbing.

>>718629636
Nice english pedro

>>718625110 (OP)
magic can definitely become more autistic cause its literally bound by nothing but imagination

>>718626608
Chasm City or Embassytown

ENTER

>>718626035
A (You) for your efforts

After reading this thread I've come to the conclusion that all of you people would fit in perfectly with the writing teams of modern Bethesda and Bioware

>>718630159
This shit is exactly why I wasn't annoyed when Disney axed all the novels from being canon when they first bought star wars
I don't think Disney is capable of ever making a good star wars work, but that's its own problem

>Make up some magic scifi particle that does everything
Wow super difficult worldbuilding

should I read the foundation trilogy?

>>718629019
the best thing to do is write a whole bunch of extensive lore, and then not actually use any of it. just keep it in your back pocket and pull it out sometimes and see if it inspires you to swing the story in a direction you hadn't thought of previously. even if you only vaguely reference it it can make a world feel more real and lived-in, but unfortunately that carries the flaw of "star wars nerds want to know WHY there was a dispute over the New Penn/North Jersey border in 2071" and then it's off to the races with extended lore and canon and i don't know how to fix that

>>718625408
It's remarkable how quickly I can ID you now, you don't even need to post your nine or so Aqua images. Stupid take + your basic bitch style of writing, and I know it's you

>>718625110 (OP)
Just explain the sci-fi shit away with magic instead?
The potential of doing "urban fantasy" or "sci-fi" fantasy where the conventional tropes of magical races and stuff from the medieval themed period is there but no one seems to actually bother with it.
You can have Mana as a driving force for making certain Sci-Fi shit work like, somehow they discovered it is in some way an almost universal grade type of fluid that when distilled or altered in a certain way and kept in a certain type of environment and container, it can act as various type of stuff such as Healing Salve similar to what the Bacta Tanks in Star Wars are, or even fuel for ships or the thing that actually manages to make the various quantum level types of stuff actually function without massive strain from more "limited" sources like fossil or coal fuel etc etc and whatnot, but the issue for gaining it for example is that Mana can only really be extracted from people who have it, meaning you either have to set up some kind of Mana donation center like how they do with blood, or you go about it the dark way where you have literal farms built up full of slaves that are bred and raised to be nothing but cows that get milked of all their mana so it can be used for various purposes.

>>718630598
nah the best thing is to keep making shit up on the fly, including contrived reasons why the new things weren't ever used or brought up beforehand

>>718625110 (OP)
>not writing that everything runs on bullshitium, power of plot and friendship
NGMI

>>718626035
I have read maybe one series that got to part of step 2 of this level in its fantasy world rules, but it wasn't just put out to the reader like this. Most usually aren't. This is a resource for the writer of the world more than anything.

>>718630690
>nine or so Aqua images
That hurt. It's the first time in years someone hurt me online. Am I really lacking variety this much?

>>718630128
> Gets extremely upset when their (nobody elses) girl gets critiqued has to pretend they are multiple persons to not look foolish.
Your time's up Aquafag. Avatarfagging is gay and lame behavior.

I like space fantasy
>Pic related the average women you get for liking space fantasy

>>718630725
i don't have the active imagination for that but i respect the people who do and can manage flying by their ass like that the whole time

friendly reminder that the story comes first before the worldbuilding. the setting exists for the story's sake, not the other way around. don't be one of those autists who go into autistic detail about every part of a planet if the story's only gonna cover a small part of it

>>718625110 (OP)
Soft sci-fi exists, and is the majority of sci-fi works.

>>718631037
>friendly reminder that the story comes first before the worldbuilding
Man leftists like you really don't know how to write anymore do you

>>718630598
>the best thing to do is write a whole bunch of extensive lore, and then not actually use any of it.
shit, man, are you me?
I have had a dream for the last like 5 years now of writing a science-fantasy epic, and towards the beginning I thought about doing that cute thing most fantasy books do where they include a map of the setting in the book, but then I decided that if I ever get published, I would never release the map and force readers to rely on the characters vaguely talking about locations in relation to each other.
After thinking about it all these years, I've started to think that not only is the map not the territory, but that anything like a map or a taxonomic classification scheme or any kind of mechanism where a story dictates to the audience "This is precisely what this thing is, and there's no room for letting your imagination run wild" actively harms the story. The map is not the territory, and becoming overly-familiar with a map often comes at the cost of your familiarity with the territory.

sci-fi actually needs a coherent world and logic to it as a hook like neuromancer. If not, the theatre kids and TRPGfags are down the hall

its why brandon sanderson is a more popular writer than even George RR Martin. He made his worlds more "coherent" despite it fantasy
i hate Tolkein because of this

>>718628842
Any Jedi Star Wars game

Bad:
>Hyper-advanced technology works by blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. It was invented in 2153 by Dr. Whogivesashit. Thankfully, the rest of the setting is basically still just contemporary America

Good:
>Hyper-advanced technology Just Werks™. Here's how it irreversibly fucked up the fabric of civilization:

>>718631171
That artist was likely inspired by aircraft of the time.

>>718631167
>The map is not the territory, and becoming overly-familiar with a map often comes at the cost of your familiarity with the territory.
This actually makes sense when you consider how many real-world maps look basically nothing like the actual terrain, especially historically speaking. Everyone takes for granted that in a fantasy book, the map printed on the slip cover is just The Map™, same for the maps in most fantasy-esque games, be it bideo gaem or tabletop. Which makes sense, since in those cases the map is an actual tool for the player to use and they'd get angry if it was wrong all the time, and it's usually a big perfect rectangle with all the points of interest that you will hit through the story cleverly drawn (but not labeled) ahead of time, while in real life- or in the context of a story, where the map is just a diegetic (I think that's the word?) device and might have been drawn up by a drunk guy for a handful of local currency who has never actually seen anything past the Mountains of Evil and really hates the guys who live to the south so he'll just make their part of the map really tiny and if it's wrong, who cares, no one would ever want to go there anyway.

Maps are interesting. I can feel the autistic warp overtaking me.

>>718626328
You can incorporate handwavium into hard SF, within reason. Larry Niven never explains how stepping disks/transfer booths (teleporters, essentially) work in Known Space. The technology came from aliens, but it doesn't violate physics. You can't teleport faster than light, and the teleporter needs to compensate for any changes in kinetic or potential energy between endpoints. Don't ever bother with quantum physics like OP, it makes you look like a pseud. Just keep to first principles.

>>718631037
>NOOO YOU CAN'T WRITE WHAT YOU WANT TO MAKE, YOU HAVE TO MAKE LIGHT WINDOW DRESSING FOR YET ANOTHER BORING ETHNICALLY MIXED SOAP OPERA

>>718631383
yeah he 100% was, the 'flying disc' of a UFO is just a stylization of the flying wing and other tailless air/spacecraft designs that had already been prodded at since the 20s. and then you get a feedback loop of fiction inspiring reality inspiring fiction, and the space race, and all that. i mean. you ever seen a B-2 from the straight-on front view? that shit's a flying saucer.

>>718625110 (OP)
you don't know what you're talking about.

>>718625110 (OP)
>It NEEDS to be Sci-Fi to be about quantum physics
Clearly you never consume japanese works

lol OP is the biggest retard of the day

>90% of nerd hobbies involve autisticly categorizing stuff
>Most creators that aren't hacks usually have some background/interest in history, science, engineering etc. or at least will do their due diligence to research whatever topic their story is about
>People act surprised that these creators and their fans enjoy going autisticly into detail about the history, mechanics and logistics of the setting

>>718631037
Stories only happen through the circumstances of the world they occur in.

>>718625110 (OP)
this is literally the to be fair you have to have a high iq to understand rick and morty meme in pseud comic form

>>718631950
It's not surprising really in any way. It's just bad writing.

Most scifi is just fantasy.

>>718625110 (OP)
>quantum mechanics
>for teleportation
Already fucked it up

be honest /v/, since i know most of us are doomed to be idea guys forever, how many extra-layers-of-autistic hobbies have you ended up looking into in the pursuit of writing the perfect story? because i'm looking at a whole bunch of cardstock, foam, and map pins and 200 tabs on organic small-scale war simulation for a minor event that could be just as easy as "flip a coin and the winner in-story is based on what it lands on" and wondering where my life went wrong

>>718632046
>Bad writing is when you create a fleshed and expansive setting

>>718631331
Based.

In all the sci fi vidya I have played science might as well be magic

>>718632245
yes, bad writing is when you fill up a story with a whole bunch of junk that doesn't make the story better
this is like being a car manufacturer that produces terrible cars, but you include a puppy with every purchase of one of your terrible cars and getting mad when people criticize the quality of your cars
>how could you possible say our barely functional dogshit cars are bad?! They come with a free puppy!

>>718632476
including extra features and additions no one will ever use in cars is a successful sales tactic that's practiced today, customers are more willing to pick the option with "more" even if that "more" is useless to them

>>718631830
>read Japanese fantasy light novel
>somehow learn about making perfume and shampoo

>>718632596
Yeah, that was a dumb comparison, they know people will pay for More (tm) and that's why actual option sheets have disappeared, it's either you pay what they want you to buy or you pound sand and go buy from someone else.
>ash trays per passenger
>cup holders per passenger
>sun/moon/skyroof
>fine Corinthian leather
>the triangle of 'safety standards, efficiency, emissions'
It's a big rabbit hole.
>>718632476
>being a car manufacturer that produces terrible cars, but you include a puppy with every purchase of one of your terrible cars and getting mad when people criticize the quality of your cars
You just described almost to the word what happened to the US automaker industry in the 70s and how the Euros and Japanese started eating the Big Three's market segments like a free lunch.

>>718632476
It's literally the opposite because 90% of hack writers don't care about their setting and are more focused creating "set pieces" and "cool moments" at the expense of logical cohesive story telling. Fallout 3 is perfect example of this

>>718632245
if you can only flesh out the setting by doing autistic lore dumps that interrupt the actual narrative i showed up for then yes, it is bad writing

>>718632245
bad writing is like your mom

>>718625110 (OP)
I want my setting to be a bunch of fantasy things explained as sci-fi phenomena.
>Souls
Brains that have evolved from matter to energy
>Magic
The souls channeling a part of their energy into various states
>Ghosts
A soul that managed to stay coherent after the death of the body despite usually dissipating on death.
>Restless ghosts
The most common way for a soul to persist is "unfinished business". An instinctive defense mechanism triggers in a soul that is convinced it's not supposed to die yet, making it maintain its coherence outside of its body in an attempt to finish some important task it's convinced it needs to finish. Protecting loved ones, reporting a severe crime, revenge killings, etc.
>Haunting
A phenomenon of a restless ghost squatting in a property of its choice.
>Paranormal phenomena
Since "Magic" comes from the soul, a ghost is able to do very weak and rudimentary forms of magic. Rising/falling temperatures are thermal magic. Objects getting thrown around are telekinesis, etc.
>Exorcism
There is "placebo" exorcism like religious symbols, prayers, rituals, incense, other bullshit, that only works if the ghost believes it works (Oh fuck, he's calling jebus on my ass, I gotta get the fuck out of here!). Should you attempt to shove a cross in the face of some atheist redditor's ghost - he will only obnoxiously laugh in your face. Proper exorcism is done by people with experience in arcane studies, ones that know how to destabilize and dissipate volatile arcane energy.
>Possession
An attempt by a soul to sever another soul's neural connection to its body and hijack control over it.
>Reincarnation
A successful possession of a fetus.
Etc

>>718633118
yes, having no internal consistency in your setting is also bad writing but that doesn't make shoving the rulebook you've got in my face good writing either

>>718633206
>it's all energy doing what it has to do bro
That's not sci-fi that's just magic

>>718633147
That's a different matter all together. You can have an autisticly fleshed out world where there's a backstory for like tires or something but all that's saved for supplemental material. Even most lore autists agree lore dumps are bad and that sort of thing should naturally flow into the story.

>>718629398
Neither does science fiction.

>>718625642
Word. The Force is basically just space magic midichlorians or not.

>>718633417
What's the difference?

>>718633434
>Even most lore autists agree lore dumps are bad and that sort of thing should naturally flow into the story
and yet it remains in bad sci-fi works (i.e. most of them at this point in time, seriously shit's dire out there right now)

>it just works
That's terrible worldbuilding. One of the basics of fantasy worldbuilding is that your magic system needs to have clear rules.

>>718625408
hyper realism means something else but I guess it can means multiple things like mathematical terms using normal words that mean different things.

>>718625408
that's just low fantasy

>>718631037
Truth

>>718631142
>>718631689
>It's not enough for me to disagree with you, I have to announce my socio-political alignment too.

>>718631997
The randomness of people living their lives within a world, is not inherently interesting. You have to contrive interesting events to occur, in order to make the story interesting.

>>718633743
>magic
>needs to have clear rules
>magic
>clear rules
huh

>>718633543
Sci-fi is speculative. It goes "What if we had this technology", "What if we lived in venus", "What if we had time travel". It's usually plausible projections for the future of humanity. For every sci-fi work you're supposed to think "I wonder if that is how it is going to be in 1000/100000 years", it is always somewhat within the realm of possibility.

Fantasy, on the other hand, is not speculative, it's more about the impossible. It relies on supernatural elements that have zero chance of becoming real in the future. Fantasy is not trying to provide a plausible view on how our life could be, it's more about exploring romantic ideals, larger-than-life individuals, personified natural forces, fate, destiny.

So when you say "What if ghosts, supernatural beings and other stuff we 100% know could never exist IRL are real but I came up with a pseudoscientific explanation for them" you're not playing in the sci-fi genre, you're playing in the fantasy genre but with a sci-fi skin.

You're basically doing a Star Wars which is unanimously fantasy, not sci-fi.

>>718625110 (OP)
>implying series like Star Wars and 40k don't have the most extensive world building and largest wikis in the entire internet and 99% of their world building is made up bull shit

Good characters will always be central to good world building. Nobody gives a shit about accurate depictions of qunatum physics or your retarded rules based magic system if you don't have intersting characters.

As long as you have good characters, autists WILL literally bend over backwards trying to explain all your made up bullshit and make it make sense for you.

the magic meta is drawing from mythology
https://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/magic/antiscience.html

>>718626857
In the very first chapter Suedou is using a set of braces that lets him clench his teeth really hard which increases his punching power by 300%.

>>718626608
The Player of Games

that's why you do science fantasy

any attempt you make to try and stay consistent with real-world physics or even worse, try to predict future discoveries, will be ruined by actual discoveries being more interesting

>>718633878
>The randomness of people living their lives within a world, is not inherently interesting. You have to contrive interesting events to occur, in order to make the story interesting.
What about nonfiction books

>>718634325
Wait that was a lie too? I thought it was true that you could increase your strength by clenching treeth

>>718631797
There's plenty of wild designs for aircraft, but the flying saucer likely comes from conspiracy theories.

Also the B2 looks like a repurposed older design. Not sure why did that.

>>718626608
Ringworld

>>718634021
>the actual ghost of Ray Bradbury is posting here

>>718634581
>What about nonfiction books
Typically, boring people are not written about.
I didn't say randomness *never* produces interesting stories. I said that randomness does not *inherently* produce interesting stories. Some people live very interesting lives. But you can't bet on randomness producing an interesting story for your fantasy story. What are the chances that you allow the world to dictate the fate of your character, and it results in an interesting story arc?

Sci Fi and fantasy stories don't need to go into every single minute detail of their setting and world works but they should be logical and consistent. Fallout and Dragon Age are perfect examples. Their not "realistic" but they do establish a world and rules within that world that characters follow. The problem is that the their sequels break these said rules in nonsensical ways that break the players immersion.

>>718634890
>>718634581
is the trick to force things to happen in a seemingly random way in-story that leads to an interesting story? are you a manual pseudorandom number generator, ensuring the number always lands on something interesting or story relevant to keep it going? is writing a story basically playing god?

oh man

>>718634276
you don't need to draw anything directly from mythology. The way you would depict magic in a manner similar to mythological sagas is by making it be totally arbitrary. It's just a cool, random thing you pulled out of your ass to make the story more interesting.
How come Odin uses necromancy to argue with a zombified witch in the poem Vegtamskvitha? Because it'd be cooler than if he was just talking to a regular witch.

>>718635015
Fallout and Dragon Age are some of the most realistic fantasy worlds out there, because the basic summary of their worlds are, "Fuck California" and "Fuck France" respectively.

>>718634840
This is a quite cultured reference how did you come up with this?

>>718633960
Yes, such as an 'aether' of some sort that mages draw from that they have to channel somehow so you can't just cast "summon fuckhuge world-killing dragon", you'd need to have the proper setup and tools for something that big
FMA comes to mind as a good example of a rule-bound magical system because the entire story is written around someone trying to fuck with that system and then having to work within that system in order to un-fuck themselves

>>718635039
no, there is no trick. Stories are made through doing several iterative passes. You start with an inkling of the story you want to tell. You flesh that out, and then flesh out the setting that you need to tell that story.
The random "noise" in the setting (by which I mean the fluff that makes the world feel more expansive and immersive) isn't actually random noise at all, it's an illusion. It's smoke and mirrors meant to trick you into thinking that this world is so big and rich that it has random noise the way our own world does. But it actually doesn't (unless you're extremely autistic and consider writing wikipedia articles a hobby)

>>718634021
So a pseudo-scientific explanation doesn't cut it? A brain undergoing a chemical metamorphosis into a new element of gas-like properties that can still maintain a molecular structure similar to that of a brain, where connections and combinations of signals sent between the molecules of this structure form complex thoughts just like the neural signals within a brain would, and then this chemical being able use the signals from the main network to change its properties, raising or lowering temperature around it, or conducting electricity, or forming into a solid state, etc, all of that is not enough to classify as anything close to sci-fi?
So what are sci fi settings then? I was told Dune is one of them, but prescience isn't even pseudoscience, it's straight up space magic gibberish.

>>718635663
here's an idea: if you don't want your story to be filled with annoying deus ex machinas that deflate tension, then just don't fucking write them.
If you don't trust yourself enough not to write something stupid in your fantasy story, then creating an arbitrary rule system to try and circumvent the issue isn't going to help because you're probably just going to ignore the dumb rule system you made up and write slop anyway.

>>718635584
reading things, probably?

>>718635845
The system isn't there to limit you or stop you from doing something stupid you buffoon, it's there so the audience understands why the big bad didn't just use his giant magic balls to implode the universe.

>>718635015
Dragon Age magic has too much of the "A wizard did it" bullshit. From semi-major things like turning an entire settlement into cryptids to whatever beyond-the-veil bullshit they were going for in inquisition and veilguard.
>But that's not cano-
You can bet your ass nobody on the Origins dev team was thinking that the Maker was real.

>>718635685
>unless you're extremely autistic and consider writing wikipedia articles a hobby

>>718625826
dad is wearing a scuba mask

>>718625110 (OP)
Sci-fi is just disingenuous fantasy

>>718635939
>it's there so the audience understands why the big bad didn't just use his giant magic balls to implode the universe.
right... so in other words, it prevents you from writing an annoying deus ex machina that deflates all tension? Because that's totally what audiences would expect otherwise
>hmm, strange, why didn't this fictitious story just suddenly end in an uninteresting, anti-climatic manner? I would've expected my entertainment to actually go out of its way to not entertain me for the sake of logic

I don't give a fuck if the stuff works with quantum, nano, stalinium or magic(tm), as long they keep it consistent thru the whole show.

>>718626979
>just reverse the polarity, lol

>>718625110 (OP)
why is there a freemason symbol in the corner

>>718635939
It could be good writing if there are people trying to understand the system, only for them to be proven wrong by rare exceptions, leading the reader not to take any kind of rationalization of it seriously.

>>718636161
>hmm, strange, why didn't this fictitious story just suddenly end in an uninteresting, anti-climatic manner? I would've expected my entertainment to actually go out of its way to not entertain me for the sake of logic
Man it's almost like people want to be immersed and don't want things happening for the sake of things happening

>>718625110 (OP)
>sci-fi
>I'll hack into the mainframe!
>I've made it past the firewall!
>I'm in

>>718636583
>Man it's almost like people want to be immersed and don't want things happening for the sake of things happening
exactly
and the only way to achieve this very simple goal is to, of course, is to make audiences slog through a bloated exegesis on the precise, empirical mechanics of how magic uniformly behaves in a fantasy world that the author is probably going to disregard halfway through the story anyway once he backs himself into a corner

>>718636865
>You don't like deus ex machinas that means you like bloated lore

>>718625110 (OP)
>>718636918
edit, i accidentally forgot to switch the labels but you get the point.

>>718636975
see >>718635845

>>718636993
didn't he say once in a lecture that you should just go with whatever type of world building and magic system you want and that simple world building and soft magic is just as good, he just chooses to use hard magic and complicated world building?

>>718625802
Aqua=breadtubers Darkness=npc coomers Megumine=nazis Yunyun=accelerationists

>>718637030
hard sci-fi is not necessarily badly written.

>I HAVE TO-

You don't have to do anything. Everything is optional.

>>718637245
I want my sci-fi to be hard alright, if you know what I mean.

>>718637185
Megumin are the Ancap, Darkness are the Authoritarian Right, Yunyun are the Socialist Libertarians.

>>718631037
that's one smart cat

>>718625110 (OP)
Sci-fi is just fantasy with STEM vocabulary.
At the core, it's all the same.
You can retell Lord of the Rings with multiple planets, faster the light travel, aliens, lightsabers as easily as you can retell StarWars with elves, wizards, eagle riding and mythril swords. It's all cosmetic and irrelevant.

>>718631037
why can't i be visited by a cow bros...

>>718625704
>>718625802
>>718637185
>>718637420
For me? It's Komekko

>>718636161
>>718636865
>No what about the normalfags

>>718637607
now I want a fantasy leviathan wakes that starts off with a trade caravan spotting a smoke cloud from a ruined mining town that was attacked by wizards.

>>718626328
i dare you to hold up other lofty and fantastical, whimsical schlock to a more grounded series like pic related. Yes it does get retarded later

hell even fromdrones became insufferable,fashionista armorfags cause there were historical inspirations

>>718625408
kill yourself avatarfag

>>718636975
It's like lotr. How does magic work there? What the absolute heck Gandalf even does and why isn't he blasting everyone with fireballs? No one knows(you'll point out that you're a lore autist and you know, but I mean for a non-lorefag it looks random). Yet it simply works. It's like Odin doing random mumbo jumbo >>718635059. You pay attention to the story, and system comes later. If the themes are good, no autistic system is necessary. The magic is random and yet just werks- as long as you pay attention to the narrative, Hero's Journey, themes before deciding a character does mumbo jumbo.
Magic systems can be divided into lotr (kino) and fma (midslop). These are two styles, and no one is inherently better, but the latter produced FMA midslop. 'nuff said.

>thread got posted on twitter
welp
Discussion was fun though, thanks /v/.

>>718635015
I hate that image with a passion.

>>718626608
The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch

>>718638130
How do you even know that? Are you browsing twitter right now? Are you following accounts that take material from 4chan?

>>718635803
>So what are sci fi settings then? I was told Dune is one of them
No, Dune is NOT one of them, Dune is another classic example of fantasy that people misinterpret as sci-fi just because it has technology in what is otherwise a world marked by supernatural, fate, destiny, religions and spirits.

Examples of sci-fi would be Fahrenheit 451, Brave New World, Bladerunner. All of that is entirely possible and even fools most people into claiming it is "for where we are headed", well except for Bladerunner which is a bit less credible but still somewhat plausible.

Dune is not just about "what if our technology improves", it dives into the supernatural and the spiritual.

>>718625110 (OP)
good worldbuilding will explain magic so it makes sense too

>>718638332
Star Wars: am i a jok to u

>>718637971
It was pretty annoying how this book series went against the goal the authors stated for it. It was supposed to show a mid level spacefaring humanity, only in the solar system, upgrade to interstellar travel and the steps to get there but they made the alien threat so strong that they just give up on the series' progress for a timeskip to the true interstaller phase of humanity in the 2 paragraph epilogue.

https://youtu.be/VkR2hnXR0SM
For me it’s

>>718638329
Is there anything scifi to bladerunner other than aware AI?

>>718638332
i dunno, the more worldbuilding, star war lend itself in the prequals, the more i laugh rather than stayed immersed

who the fuck thought midichlorians was a good idea? God, give me 5 star stories instead

>>718625110 (OP)
true
the best sci fi game of the last decade is outer wilds and it's borderline science fantasy

>>718638576
>outer wilds
slop

>>718638329
by your logic bladerunner isn't really scifi either because it is mostly a noir story set in the future with robots and a fucked up environment. the fucked up environment and shitty way of life is not there to make you think "what if something happened". If anything the main theme of the story is "if androids are truly sentient creatures, especially biological clones like the later models, is our treatment of them just cruel slavery?"
if you count that as a what if speculation then Dune is scifi then because it's main themes revolve around shit like "is religion just a means to control people?".

>>718638329
Isn’t spiritual important to scifi

>>718638540
to be fair star wars supplementary material is like warhammer in that it is written by so many different people with so many different personalities that you are bound to find things that are vastly different and more up your speed.

>>718638119
It doesn't matter whether a magic system has listed rules stated to the reader in the in-universe text. By showing the magic you make the rule that the magic can do what you showed. Even Lord of the Rings has to follow that things we see magic characters do once are things they still can do later.

>>718638487
I love this concept adaptation. Hard sci fi is the best when done right, has no equal

>>718638241
Worse, the tweet was posted in one of my college discords.

>barely disguised /tv/ and /lit/ thread
>/v/
"fellow gaymers" are ruining my board

>>718638130
Post it

I am guilty of world building too but a flaw that nobody who does it likes to hear is that setting serves story, story doesn't serve setting. The solitary exception is something like SCP which is an outlier, or something to which story and setting serve something else altogether with Warhammer 40k being the titular example as everything exists to feed the Moloch that is miniatures.

Otherwise people just hyperfixate on encyclopediac material instead of really emphasizing the story. The end result is >>718629019 and other anons observations in that general chain. Pointless lore, encyclopedia dumping, navel-gazing nonsense about some irrelevant character instead of a just tight and interesting story.

>>718626778
This doesn't explain the appeal of Sanderson, but someone told me once movies dumbed down their dialogue and explain shit a lot because of foreign audiences (Not Europeans) needing or expecting it. Think how much anime is full of monologue tell instead of show.

>>718631037
Oh shit I was writing that and then I saw your post. I'm glad to see someone else realizes that

The only distinction between science and magic are literally fucking magnets and it makes them seethe so much they don't even care about how they work anymore.