Thread 718869086

30+ years later and still modern devs are unable to understand what made Super Metroid so great. Their "metroidvanias" are a bastardization and abomination of Super Metroid's design.

there's at least one modern dev that understood it

>>718869420
That's about the woest example actually. The map straight up feels like it was randomly generated and they just strew a hundred gates all over the map at random. There is no sense of progression, no rhyme or reason or coherence to where you're supposed to go.

You find a powerup, then you just do a big fucking loop around the entire map and check every gate, maybe you marked a couple that seemed important, maybe you remembered the vague area where a few were, but that's all you can do, just backtrack from one end of the massive map to the other just to check the pointless dead end paths that just opened up.

And most of the time those gates have nothing of relevance behind them, just a bit of essence, a merchant that sells a couple items, a lore tidbit, a shortcut with no cutback, a rotten egg, a bit of geo, a grubworm (read: a bit of geo), etc.

Not to mention, the forced Souls shit, the constant backtracking from benches, and how samey everything in the massively oversized world feels.

>>718869086 (OP)
Alright anon I'll listen to you, tell us what made Super Metroid so great?

>>718869782
The Nintendo logo on the box.

>>718869420
pic unrelated

>>718869086 (OP)
>30+ years later and still modern devs are unable to understand what made Super Metroid so great.
Zero Mission, Fusion, and AM2R all mog it so idk what you're talking about.

>>718869764
ironic considering I feel this way about Super Metroid, outside of the map feeling randomly generated
SM doesn't even let you mark the fucking map, it doesn't automatically mark gates, the map doesn't have color distinctions or anything at all besides pink rectangles
also funny that you'd complain about HK not rewarding exploration since in Super all you're getting is missiles
not only that, but
>looks like shit in most places
>controls like shit
>sounds like shit, as if you're listening to someone else play it on the other side of a wall
>combat sucks, game expects you to take a ton of damage because there's no chance of dodging most enemies which is why they shower you in health pick-ups

>>718869086 (OP)
Metroidvanias are a different kind of game than Metroid. They include elements of Metroid with elements of SotN.

>>718870091
Why would you need to mark the map in Super Metroid? Just remember the rooms you need to go back to. Easy.
Also you gave your hand away by pretending the music and sound is bad. You need to at least learn how pick reasonable criticisms if you want to troll effectively/have anyone fall for your bait.
HK is an ugly as fuck game compared to SM btw lmao, easily the biggest problem with the game is that it's emo contrarian-core.

>>718870698
compare the sound and visuals to Demon's Crest which released the same year and it gets shat on

>>718870060
>Fusion
Lmao

>>718870843
Yes, Fusion. Narratively and control wise, it mogs the fuck out of SM.

>>718870091
Super Metroid is small, dense, varied, intentional, with tight pacing, constant progression and power, subtle 'invisible hand' guidance, and respect for player time.

Hollow Knight is essentially the opposite of all those things. I've never played a game with such nonsensical haphazard design and blatant hatred of the player that only wants to waste their time with frivolous Sisyphus bullshit

>>718869764
>You find a powerup, then you just do a big fucking loop around the entire map and check every gate, maybe you marked a couple that seemed important, maybe you remembered the vague area where a few were, but that's all you can do, just backtrack from one end of the massive map to the other just to check the pointless dead end paths that just opened up.
but enough about super metroid

>>718869086 (OP)
God I hate tendies so fucking much it’s unreal.

>>718871461
Other M deserves to be in it's own D tier, but otherwise I can agree mostly.

>>718871461
S is Super & Prime
A is Zero Mission, Fusion, Prime 2
B is Samus Returns, Metroid 2, Prime 3 (which you forgot)
C is Metroid & Other M

these are object facts btw not opinion

>>718872000
And you forgot Dread
L M A O

>>718871835
Hate all you want but Metroid invented the genre and Super is the only game to do it right.

>>718870698
Git gud

>>718871753
Hollow Knight progression is basically mindless trial and error brute force because the map design is haphazard randomly generated garbage.

If you think that's easier than Super Metroid, then you're basically admitting you're a moron who couldn't intuit Super Metroid's subtle guidance and progression flow, and just brute forced it instead.

>>718871753
you're naturally funneled into brinstar, norfair, get hard walled at deep norfair and move back up to maridia and the wrecked ship (potentially getting hard walled at maridia and towards the wrecked ship because no gravity suit), back to deep norfair for ridley and then the only place left is tourian

super does a great job at presenting the illusion of nonlinearity mostly by letting you wander while still feeling like progress is being made unless you're hard walled by needing an upgrade (mostly the two suits)

>>718872176
No, it's right there in A tier. I wrote it in a font that is invisible to zoomers.

>>718871090
>Narratively
lol
>control wise
alright i'll give you this one, but what about the core of the game? you know, the exploration? fusion kind of forgot that was supposed to be a thing.

>>718869086 (OP)
Every metroidvania is inspired by Castlevania not metroon, your franchise is irrelevant.

>>718872964
>Castlevania retools itself entirely to improve upon Super Metroid's formula
>The result is the greatest video game ever made
>The franchise proceeds to basically never return to classic platforming and remains metroidesque in perpetuity
yeah real irrelevant retard

>>718869086 (OP)
Honestly the majority of metroidvania have RPG elements like level and swapable gear making them not really a metroid.

>>718873026
Metroons are delusional.

>>718873048
that's why they're called metroidvanias and not metroid-likes. the only indie game that actually feels based on metroid is Axiom Verge.

>>718872850
Exploration is still there. The only difference is that the exploration is more linear focused over SM's.

>>718873167
and ESA and a ton of other games

>>718873226
Linear and exploration are basically antonyms anon, Fusion is you getting pulled by the nose through a story, it's about as "exploration" heavy as your average MMO dungeon.

>>718873361
>Get an entire sector of the map to explore but no it doesn't count because you were pulled there by the story.
Okay champ.

>>718873361
you'd think metroid 1 would get glazed harder since it's all exploration and they do dickhead things with items like where the screw attack is placed

>>718873436
damn, i never knew Final Fantasy XIII had such a huge focus on exploration, thanks for enlightening me anon.

>>718873493
Well, I wouldn't know. I'm not a FF kind of guy so I'll trust your word for it.

>>718870698
>>718871596
thank you chatgpt

People go to forward slash vee and pretend Zero Mission doesn't exist
>but the stealth segme-
That's like 5 minutes nigga

>>718873087
Don't overdose on that copium.

>>718874545
Nigga I'm not reading that wall of text, tldr.

>>718874545
>Harmony is better than CotM in almost every aspect
did this nigga not even play his own games? CotM runs circles around HoD. better castle, better movement, and while the DSS is super jank its still fun to mess around with. also CotM has better replayability thanks to the like 4 other modes you unlock after beating the game. (CROSSBOW best mode).

>>718869086 (OP)
what's wild is that it's so simple to understand

>>718869086 (OP)
The closest game i've seen to capturing its atmosphere and level design is Animal Well.
>>718870223
The "vania" part of the name is so stupid.
SOTN brought absolutely nothing new to the genre. All it did was copy shit that Wonderboy 3 already did in 1989.

>>718869086 (OP)
The GOAT