Thread 718875627

>Parrying is precise and finicky, relying on an audio cue or narrow timing window to perform successfully. If you’re in a hectic combat situation, you already have enough to pay attention to.
>I won’t hide the fact that my stance is informed by the fact that I am terrible at parrying. But I would argue this is not my fault. In real life, I briefly took a fencing class in college, so I understand the concept of what it is to parry, and it is an action I have pulled off with variable success in the physical world. I don’t think this action translates well to video games.
>In third-person games it can be hard to understand when precisely you should parry; these kinds of games have to give you wind-ups and clues to help you know when to enter into their simulation of objects moving through space.
>Parrying is inherently a first-person activity; if you are seeing it in third-person it means you’re not part of the parrying situation, and as such have no need to know when someone should parry.
>In first-person games the sort of calculations you’d do in the physical world are functionally impossible when ported to the virtual. In real life, you inherently sort of know how to work with the length of a sword, how fast it’s moving, how long your own sword is, and how far away you are. When you remove the bodies and the space, the whole concept basically falls apart.
>Video games have to turn parrying into an animation that must be entered into correctly; they have to introduce all those clues you’re required to parse, turning the whole thing into some kind of cruel rhythm game, because there is no way to recreate actual parrying. You lose the spontaneity, the freedom, and the responsiveness in real life.

is she right?

tldr

Okay I read the first line and that's what I expected and knew I'd stop once I saw it:
>parrying is too mechanically hard

instead of
>parrying lets the developer be lazy with combat/movement/animation/hitbox design
Stupid fucking foid bitch needs to hung by a noose fashioned out of her gutted ovaries total foid death back to the kitchen bitch

You can be right for the wrong reasons, i'm just fucking tired of it.

>>718875627 (OP)
Well now that journalists hate it I have to like it.

>>718875627 (OP)
tldr but parrying is like playing a rhythm game with no music. put the record on or fuck off with your rhythm nonsense

>>718875627 (OP)
>is she right?
About "parrying is bad"? It's neither right nor wrong because it's a subjective opinion. Complaining about an aspect of a game when there are a million other games is rather pointless though. If you don't enjoy a particular kind of challenge then don't play games that offer that kind of challenge. The person who wrote this shit about parrying could have just played a game that doesn't have that feature (which is most of them). Oh, you actually have to play it because writing about games is your job? Boo hoo. Should have been a marine biologist. Not every game has to appeal to everyone, unless the game has a billion-dollar budget and needs to sell a copy to every person on Earth to break even because shareholders want the line to go up when it's already as up as it can get, and those games suck shit regardless.
>inb4 "I'm not reading all that"
Oh well.

>>718877329
>It's neither right nor wrong because it's a subjective opinion
WRONG. Parry is objectively a dumbed down version of a perfect dodge. Parry a non-directional just in time dodge which is objectively inferior to the normal just in time dodge because dodge involves positioning and requires you to pay attention to your surroundings

Just stop being bad at video games.

>>718877505
>Parry is objectively a dumbed down version of a perfect dodge
Then why are dodging mechanics always so much easier than parrying in general?

>>718875627 (OP)
I'm not going to read all this but yes it's not real gameplay it's like a memory game instead.

Parrying in fencing is nothing like the souls "parry." Accurately reading your opponent in a fighting game would be a better comparison.

>>718875627 (OP)
>my stance is informed by the fact that I am terrible at parrying
opinion disregarded, git gud
there are decent reasons to hate parrying but genuinely learn to fucking play before you hate it

>>718877505
A dodge only requires positioning if the boss fight is designed around it, which they rarely are. A parry can also require positioning, directional inputs, more precise timing than a dodge and gives the devs the ability to add more attacks to a boss moveset without it feeling unfair or unnatural. There's no cut and dry answer, every game will have good parries and bad dodges, it depends on how the boss and the player mechanics are designed.

>>718877670
Most games today don't even do perfect dodge, a dodge is just a dodge in modern games because parrysloppa replaced perfect dodges. By perfect dodge I mean a dodge performed in the parry timing, the kind that triggers witch time in Bayonetta.

>>718877997
I swear i played a game with perfect dodges released in the last year or two, forget what though

>>718878227
space marine 2?

>>718875627 (OP)
100% correct. Parrying is cringe and I just want to dodge, or better get stagger them first

am i suppose to read ALL that shit?

>>718875627 (OP)
tldr
>is she right
lol, no

>>718878329
That's less than a minute of reading anon, and you're on a board of people who communicate through text.

>>718875627 (OP)
I think it's overused, Sekiro unfortunately inspired tons of copy cats and they never do it well. Either it's too easy, too strong, or the best way to engage in combat and it just makes the game devolve into standing still and waiting to parry which is fucking boring.

Souls and Sekiro unfortunately have popularized roll slop and parry slop.

>>718875627 (OP)
>is she right?
No. I'm not even being mysogkneestic. Most women lack the spatial awareness to do that.
As a 13 year old I was parrying shit outside my view by keeping it in mind and listening to sound cues.
Parrying is horrifically easy unless you have the window of 5 or less frames but 2-3 frames should be ideal.

>they have to introduce all those clues you’re required to parse
so do it?
what's the issue?

>>718875627 (OP)
>dumb bitch journalist wants dumb bitch journalist mode in games
i say kill em all

>is she right
>she
>videogames opinion
No

>>718875627 (OP)
>I won’t hide the fact that my stance is informed by the fact that I am terrible at parrying.

>>718875627 (OP)
>Video games have to turn parrying into an animation that must be entered into correctly; they have to introduce all those clues you’re required to parse, turning the whole thing into some kind of cruel rhythm game, because there is no way to recreate actual parrying
chivalry didn't do any of those things and parrying in first or third person is spontaneous free and responsive

Not even 20 year old bing bings are safe from parry slop and mechanical darwinism. There is no escape.

>>718875627 (OP)
>minority opinion on 4chan becomes mainstream within 5 years

how does it happen?

>>718875627 (OP)
i agree
never parried in any game
it kinda makes pvp in souls impossible but whatever

>>718879261
Damn, she's just like a real gamer.

>>718875627 (OP)
But 99% of the time parrying is optional. You could just block instead or dodge out of the way.
She doesn't recommend any ways to improve it, she's just saying that it's bad and that she's bad at it.

Yes. Parrying is a precise action. Parrying only works in uninterrupted 1v1 fights because you can focus entirely on that foe in front of you. Parrying goes out the window in a disorganized brawl...like, just try parrying some unseen assailant who was aiming an attack at your back, bro. just git gud.

>>718875627 (OP)
trash reflexes. I get that you shouldn't be 'realistically' able to parry a bullet, but any sword-swing or spear thrust with 20 frames/300ms is legitimate to block then decide whether to counterattack, further defend, or jump out of the way.

And you dodge fags are fags because you're used to dodge i-frames. fucking losers.

>>718875627 (OP)
Parry should be limited to a parry specific off-hand weapon and dodge rolls to non-heavy armor

>>718876969
spbp also it trivializes shit

>>718875627 (OP)
Salty shitter has to whine about it to everyone.

What soulslike games need to stop doing is the fucking delayed attacks

>>718875627 (OP)
>my stance is informed by the fact that I am terrible at parrying
There it is.

>>718875627 (OP)
Yes and no, sort of. Personally I just find parrying in games to just on the whole doesn't "feel" right. Parrying in right life generally has a huge effect on your opponents follow through and their balance. Games for the most part just don't properly portray or utilize this. Parrying either becomes a simple "Press it at the right time and all the incoming damage disappears" or "press button, opponent gets pseudo-stunned".

In all yeah I'd say it's generally a shitty mechanic but not too much by the fault of anyone, even the devs. Just the flow of how parrying can affect human motion in reality doesn't translate well to video games. Doesn't need to be removed or forgotten as a mechanic or anything, though.

>>718875627 (OP)
didn't read, i hate parrying, not for these retard reasons, but because 90% of modern games do a slowdown on successful parry and it's gay, easy forr babies, and disrupts the flow

>>718880075
>NOOO QTE GAMES ARE GOOD ACTUALLY
LMAO Funny how we've come full circle. And don't pretend they are anything but when the most recent example of parry good kills you if you fail the parry.
/v/ defending QTEs is funny as fuck.

>>718875627 (OP)
I don't like parrying because it's generally too easy and it makes combat a "wait until enemy attacks and then punish him" fest.

>>718875627 (OP)
>playing furi
>enemies give a visual indication of when to parry
>except no they dont the visual indication is a fake out and the audio cue is the only way to tell when to parry

>>718876060
fpbf

>>718880710
>parrying is a QTE
Next you'll say that jumping over a pit in Mario is a QTE

>>718875627 (OP)
>she
No

>>718876060
FPBP

>>718875627 (OP)
The problem with parrying is that you can parry virtually anything and everything except attacks specifically designed to be un-parriable (which are far and few between) that have HUGE fucking tells.

If your video game is not some jRPG designed anime slopfest with a noodled armed teenager OR a game that blatantly doesn't take itself seriously and instead takes the piss with itself like MGR:R, then it looks beyond fucking retarded seeing some fucking kn'iggit with an estoc perfectly parry a fucking stone giant swinging a giant fucking cleaver that's 1.5 times the kn'iggit's height and pulling some sick ass backstab as you visibly see the fucking models swivel around to do it and lock you in the animation that takes for fucking ever to resolve. And worse yet, either you're invincible the entire time this is happening, or you aren't and some rando faggot with a knife can just unending combo your ass as you're doing it and spoil the whole thing.

It's feast and famine, no alternatives. Either you can parry virtually ANYTHING and now there's no fucking weight whatsoever behind enemy attacks (looking at you First Berserker) despite the animations, or it makes you a sitting duck if it's not a one on one. Either the game's combat ultimately resolves itself around parrying as the only real proactive line of defense and offense at once, or it's a fucking liability and shouldn't have even be put in the fucking at all.

Parrying should only work against enemies your size and in one-to-one combat, and even then, it should have caveats that don't make it a liability but instead one of several tools to handle an enemy at hand. But this takes considerable time, effort, and skill at both designing a game's combat, physics, and enemy AI to properly do when most of these games are just rollsop faggotry aping Fromsoft to begin with in the first place. No shit the whole thing fucking stinks.

>>718875627 (OP)
Parrying isn't an inherently bad mechanic, the problem is shoving it everywhere it doesn't belong. Just like QTE, crafting, open world, survival, whatever else trend of the time was good until it became overused to the point everyone hated it.
Just another fad mechanic.

>>718875627 (OP)
It's really hard to imagine being the kind of solipsistic golem capable of not only writing but publishing this

>>718875627 (OP)
You can just practice.

>>718882426
Women be like that

>>718875627 (OP)
I'm so glad the Mordhau devs took 3 years to add women because journalists like this bitched and they made every woman voice sound like the most foreign down syndrome laden corn fed simpletons.

Parrying sucks floppy donkey dick when a sizable portion of enemies are able to block/avoid your spammed attacks and force you into a fucking dance to kill trash mobs that should have been dead already.

>>718875627 (OP)
>precise and finicky
So which is it?

>>718875627 (OP)
Wtf I agree with a game journo?

>>718875627 (OP)
parrying is good if the game has multiple other defensive moves that are about as strong and it's a matter of situation/player preference
parrying is bad if its literally the only/obviously best defensive move the combat is built around, because it turns the game into a rhythm game with sword sounds instead of music.

stranger of paradise is a great example of how to have parrying be really fucking strong while having a ton of other options to the point many people go 100's of hours without parrying on purpose at all

>>718875627 (OP)
>Gaming "journalist" finally about to have a good opinion
>Has it for all the wrong reasons
>Cites some nebulous argument about gamefeel
>No mention of game mechanics, spacing, alternatives, instances where parrying has been done well and why.
This is why we still need Mork.

>>718875627 (OP)
parries are based when I do it.
They are cringe and lame when they do it to me

>>718882815
I liked that in SoP it wasn't a perfect block or dodge but its own input with generous timing in that you could start holding circle preemptively. Like if you knew an enemy's moveset you would be rewarded without having to play this rhythm game of tapping the button just so.

parrying is a completely broken mechanic that requires autism. sf6 nerfed and babyfied it for a reason

>>718875627 (OP)
confirmed: all the faggots on here that complain about "parry slop" are journalist tier casuals

>>718882316
This. I refunded E33 when I found out that I was going to be doing these stupid qte screens for all my actions. Can I just play an rpg and chill for fucks sake?

>>718879353
>implying you need to learn parrying before literally the final segment
Taser

>>718875627 (OP)
We must pray for the great gaming healing

>>718875627 (OP)
>I am shit: the thesis

>>718883524
The best thing about E33 is you can break the game so hard the enemies don't even get a turn

>>718883292
I'm not talking about the soul shield/deflect, the game has that mechanic but it also has an entire distinct parry by timing the guard button properly, which gives you a buff that increases the rate your break/soul shield/deflect meter regenerates as a baseline and then a lot of classes/gear/perks can further give you shit like regenerating hp/mp or big damage buffs on parrying but you don't have the enemy knockback/max mp stuff so soul shield is also worth doing sometimes.

it also has builds where when you dodge you get X buff, and ninja shadow clones that take hits for you and go away if you soul shield/block but not parry, and multiple lifesteal with armor/my attack has iframes style unga builds

Ok what are the best games with the best parry mechanics?

Souls does it wrong by making enemy attacks arbitrarily parriable, so you have to read the FAQ or experiment and get killed to find out which ones you're allowed to parry

>>718883052
Mork and Bog are creating trends and are not even acknowledged by the misguided mainstream sheeple. Shame!

>>718884251
I think she’s talking about deflecting which is not the same as the souls parry. Souls parry you
>press the button before the attack to parry (des and ds1 it was instant)
>enemy fucking falls over and you can stab their chest for 119838282 damage
and its mostly situational as you can’t parry fucking raping dragon of the abyss or whatever.

>>718875627 (OP)
git gud. Parry is godsend mechanic when you get it right.

If you a scrub, just dodge instead.

>>718884251
But that's what souls does right. Sorry lil bro, you can't just trivialize everything by tapping L2 at the right time.

Parrying would be more in depth if if it degraded your weapon until it broke but degrading also lessens the damage you do so it’s a last-resort flinch reaction type of thing but it still has offensive benefits.

>>718877997
perfect dodges aren't that great either because if you're rewarded with a witch time you slow down the game and make the game balance entirely on witch dodging which was Bayonetta 2 major problem.
Parrying actually solves that issue because you're usually rewarded by making you keep your flow and offense up.

I'd say the problem isn't necessarily parrying it's how it's implemented in games and how it contributes to the flow of the combat in the game.
For me Dark souls rolling is way overplayed but sekiro and bloodbornes dash while similar helps keep the flow of combat more offensive and fast.

>>718875627 (OP)
Partying should be a visual cue with no overlays. Nothing but the swing of your enemies attacks, perfect timing. No casuals should be able to do it easily.

>If you’re in a hectic combat situation, you already have enough to pay attention to.
Geez god forbid a game's combat system places you, in a very limited way, in a confusing and stressful situation. That's not what combat is about *at all*
Fucking retards.

>requires precision and filters dogshit journos
good

>incentivizes just standing there and waiting for the rhythm instead of spacing against enemies
bad

>>718875627 (OP)
i hate parrying since timing is always just retarded trial and error shit

cant be too late, but cant be too early, cant be on time visually either as most count it as too late

oh and if you fuck it up you get punished, even funnier are games where you take dmg anyway just in case you have too much fun

fucking retarded

>>718884078
Answer my fucking question

>>718875627 (OP)
LMAO someone hasn't played Dark Souls 3. I made a character specifically for parry mashing with a rapier and I don't think they ever lost a PvP encounter.

wait it's actually a she
where does op/kotaku find those freaks

>>718886054
It's funny that söyboys and FtM trannies looks indistinguishable

>>718885686
Lies of P is my favorite because boss movesets include a very dynamic risk-reward balance between utilizing parry, block or dodge instead of one defense option always being the best, and parry window is tighter than sekiro so more risky and can't spam it.

>>718885661
>trial and error shit
Nothing wrong with learning. That was literally the point of 'life bars' in the first place. Seems like a lot of modern players are just spoiled, whiny and expect to play 'perfectly' even on their first try.

>>718886545
>Lone shade with sword
Romance languages a shit.

>>718886545
What game is this? Shit looks so ass.

Is abusing parrying a crutch or mechanical darwinism?

>>718886545
mama mia

>>718886785
but there is no learning
especially in souls slop era
try parrying a boss in second phase and you get 1 shot and then have to waste 10 minutes to get back to it
it created a natural reaction to not use it as its too risky
>Seems like a lot of modern players are just spoiled, whiny and expect to play 'perfectly' even on their first try.
as opposed to what? on 100 try?
games a re supposed to be fun, not a second job, and a lot of those games with parry systems expect you to waste fuck knows how much time on them

/v/ will never not seethe about being completely shit at video games it seems

Parrying is a dumb umbrella term these days.

>>718888653
Do tell.

>>718875627 (OP)
git gud u fukcin casul

As a swordsman I parry all the time and rarely roll. I don't understand the hate for parrying. Does anyone do martial arts anymore or what?

>>718882426
>It's really hard to imagine being the kind of solipsistic golem capable of not only writing but publishing this
It is when you realize they need money

>>718875627 (OP)
no. parrying is cool. dodging is fucking gay

>>718881793
The visual indication is the white flash. Audio cues are also far superior in terms of being able to react. You should use either or both when it comes to reaction and supplement it with knowledge, and this goes for anything people can't see or hear. He's not unconquerable.

>>718887645
Some say he's still throwing Kingpin to this very day.

>>718876060
>back to the kitchen bitch

imagine trusting a woman to cook properly.

>>718878787
>or the best way to engage in combat and it just makes the game devolve into standing still and waiting to parry which is fucking boring.
That is exactly how Sekiro works outside of the mandatory red attacks

>>718888917
If you could roll with invulnerability irl you would

>>718875627 (OP)
its bad when the game relies on you to parry like sekiro and souls shit.

>>718888818
Too many retards conflate any timing based defensive mechanic, like perfect blocks, as parrying when they're all different mechanics.

>>718876060
FPBP

>>718875627 (OP)
People don't like that video games can be skilled-based, luckily for them the disability options making it into game today make it so a drooling retard could nail the parry timing.

>>718875627 (OP)
Parrying is great because it visually makes sense. Having iframes on a roll while you are clearly getting hit is what's bad.

>>718895196
/thread

>>718876060
/thread

>>718881793
Come on bro parry timing in furi is the length of a Scorsese movie

>>718875627 (OP)
>Parrying
Does not belong in Doom, and I finished Dark Ages

>>718875627 (OP)
Parrying is a QTE with no prompt

Parries are a valid mechanic but should be completely secondary and optional. They are just annoying until you learn that specific games timing, then they are trivially boring. That is the precise opposite of a good game mechanic.

>>718875627 (OP)
lol
lmao even

>>718898479
Just like jumping and shooting stuff.