Thread 718897724

but why

>>718897724 (OP)
>The rate of fire for an M134 Minigun is typically between 2,000 and 6,000 rounds per minute
Well how would you balance it?

>>718897724 (OP)
you ever tried to carry one of these things in your arms and fire it? Good fuckin luck holding it steady

>>718897834
Making the user slow.

>>718897889
Shouldn't it be easy to hold it in place considering that it is so heavy it can absorb its own recoil?

>>718897834
Halo did it pretty well. Very deadly, but not a true minigun due to the reduced rate of fire, so not EXTREMELY deadly like it should be. Still guaranteed death if you're caught out in the open being shot by it.

>>718897943
Good luck aiming it after laying it down

>>718897943
dumb jeet

>>718898053
aquafag is a swede

>>718897834
They already have a bunch of annoying balancing factors like spin up times, walk speed penalties, and overheat mechanics. They don't need so much inaccuracy on top of that.

Unreal Tournament 99 is the only game to ever do miniguns right.
Prove me wrong. You can't.

>>718897834
200 round ammo box. No spares. Then you're forced to use a side arm. That or just make it a "power up" you pick up to spray for a bit then it poofs.

>>718898224
xenoblade x

nothing perssonnell, kids

>>718897943
nah cause all the weight is at the base of it, the barrel is way lighter, so it'll kick and climb like a motherfucker

>>718897834
Every enemy also has a minigun.

>>718897724 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbzFyUxSdbw

>>718898289
ftfy

>>718898365
>get a skillstreak
>summon an a-10 to shoots its megagun on all the minigunners
cinema

Overwatch 1 bastion with head crits was very fun. He'd melt everything but was still very counterable with dive.

>>718897889
>you ever tried to carry one of these things in your arms and fire it?
yeah

>>718898136
A jeet living in sweden thoughbeit.

Has ANY game had a minigun with its real fire rate?

Also I fucking hate when a game has a minigun, but they do pisspoor damage. IT SHOOTS FAST, SO THAT MEANS THE BULLETS NEED TO BE WEAK.

i know it's about fun and realism isn't the focus here, but i always found it funny that spinup was a thing since most of these guns just stay spinning via an electric motor, even if you stop shooting. same with overheating since the whole point was that the multiple barrels distributed and dissipated the heat.

>>718898934
ArmA
Helicopter/jet guns are notorious for lagging servers since the game doesn't have hitscan and does ricochet and penetration calculations for each round

>>718898934

BFBC2, miniguns were fast, accurate, killed within a second, but access to them was fairly limited, only on transport helicopters. i'd say they were balanced by the fact that a single rocket can take out the chopper and the pilot's spastic movements can throw off your aim

>>718898934
war thunder but that doesn't count since its vehicles only
M134 does not fare well against anything actually bulletproof

>>718899046
it's just devs being retarded and pulling punches with things out of fear of it being unbalanced instead of just letting things be what they are

>game has a minigun with rotary barrels
>still has an overheat mechanic

>>718897724 (OP)
The same reason shotguns get this treatment. Because people cry

>>718899291
What game?

>>718898934
>Has ANY game had a minigun with its real fire rate?

Yes, my game have one, it shoots bullets fast and blast all enemies on your path, it kills everything as God intended, and have an appropriate name: "Hand of God"

>>718899418
Please for the love of god move the view model of the gun down so it doesn't block the center of the screen.

>>718899378
Left 4 Dead comes to mind. They did "fix" it in 2 by changing it to a single barrel machine gun.

>>718898934
>Has ANY game had a minigun with its real fire rate?
Will you accept Armored Core as an answer
Fastest way to bankrupt yourself in the earlier games in the series

>>718899418
Are you the guy who made picrel?

>>718898820
>Bibliomania reaction image
patrician taste

>>718898884
what was it like?

>>718898289
More like

>>718899637
Yes

The minigun in this game feels great. Especially when its perked correctly with ammo regen and mag size

>>718898289
>>718899695
Which games? Most flamethrowers I've seen have shit range and limited applicability (some enemies with immunities)

>>718897834
i wouldn’t, i would only let the player have the minigun in extreme situations.

>>718899853
Helldivers flamethrowers. Anything that sticks and continues burning and has teammates, frankly.

>>718897834
By the Cyberpunk 2077 standard, the more RoF a gun has, the less individual bullets do damage.

So a M134 Minigun would have bullets that do the damage of raindrop.

In fact now that I remember Cyberpunk 2077 has several miniguns, and they do ridiculously low damage.

>>718897834
>>718899992
This but the opposite, make it your main weapon.

>>718899418
Name?

>>718897724 (OP)
>pistol shoots once per second, 100dmg
>gatling gun shoots 100 rounds per second, 1dmg

>>718900116
Perfectly balanced, as God intended.

>>718900076
ah well sure, maybe it’s a survival game with very limited hp restore so having a big fuck you gun doesn’t trivialize it anyway

>>718900174
Why do you need to balance the two? A gatling gun is a devastating weapon, a player should be more powerful wielding it. Which means weapon rarity or ammo scarcity should be the limiting factor instead.
Would you balance a nuke with an uppercut too? It's ridiculous.

>>718900392
I shouldnt lose to you just because you have a minigun and I have a handgun.

>>718899075
>Helicopter/jet guns are notorious for lagging servers since the game doesn't have hitscan and does ricochet and penetration calculations for each round
That's hilarious.

>>718900715
based jank design isn't it?

>>718900174
That's not balanced. The pistol would immediately do 100 damage first so they would be at an advantage.

>>718900680
Then find the minigun first so that you have it and I don't.

>>718900680
You should lose to a minigun if you are in the open and not behind cover when all you have is a pistol.

>>718897834
The idea that every weapon should be "equal" is RETARDED

Especially in single player games. Obviously a minigun should outperform a regular assault rifle.

>>718900750
True. It's just funny to imagine an entire battlescape and everything within running seamlessly and handling thousands of simultaneous calculations all to get completely btfo by a single brrrrrrrt stream instantly quintupling the amount of events going on.

>>718900081
Guns and Nuns: Storming Hell
https://store.steampowered.com/app/3818000/Guns_and_Nuns_Storming_Hell/

>>718900116
Every modern developer does that for the sake of "balancing" but it gets annoying when single player games do it too, nobody wanna make broken/fun stuff anymore.

>>718900392
It was sarcasm. You didn't really need to think too hard about it.

But if we do, the issue is that unless you're inside a FPS with disposable weapons and ammo (Halo did it right 15 years ago, Doom did it right 25 years ago), miniguns and other "god weapons" that you keep for the rest of the game must be balanced with all the others. And the best way to balance a weapon with an absurd rate of fire is to reduce the damage of each individual bullets.

That's the go-to solution to minigun in every game where you get to keep the minigun for the rest of the game. Huge rate of fire. 0 damage. Some dude made a graph and the weapons in CP 2077 follow exactly the same DPS, to an eery point: if the gun puts twice as much bullets, each bullets do half as much damage.

>>718900116
>>718900174
I want a game where you can hoard infinitely and balance is implicit to scarcity, e.g.
>find 100 pistols, 10000 9mm ammo, 100 dmg, shoot all day and night long
>find 1 minigun, 1000 7.62mm ammo, 1000 dmg, 20 seconds of shooting time
Let a player go all out if he doesn't mind burning through his entire cache, but also let a player scavengemaxx and be able to deploy any time any place with small cheap arms

>>718900906
LMGs in cyberpunk feel absolutely awful though. You can tell that you're just tickling them compared to blowing heads off with single shots from other weapons and then the reload still taking longer means it's largely a straight downgrade. They're incredibly unpopular among the fanbase compared to other weapons.

>>718900906
>miniguns and other "god weapons" that you keep for the rest of the game must be balanced with all the others. And the best way to balance a weapon with an absurd rate of fire is to reduce the damage of each individual bullets.
This retarded mentality leads to the death of fun in vidya. Why is the concept of one weapon being more powerful than another so scary to you?
I already mentioned weapon rarity or ammo scarcity as better alternatives, which you conveniently don't address. If the god tier weapon has a 0.1% spawn rate, then why not let the player be a demigod? He worked for it and found it, let him have his fun.
Or perhaps limit the ammo found so he can't use it all the time, but once he chooses to do so, he gets to kill everybody in the room almost effortlessly.

>>718897834
1. Don't.
2. Be realistic, it's far too heavy to be man portable, and forget firing it, the recoil would be a nightmare and you wouldn't be able to carry much ammo.

>>718900032
There aren't any miniguns in Cyberpunk 2077 that the player gets to use.
But luckily for you anon I know an actually shit open world FPSRPG that does do this.
Behold, lowest DAM firearm in all of Fallout 4.

>>718901758
>uses 5mm, a tiny fictional bullet

>>718897834
these things need a battery to function, so they need to be turreted or have extra batteries besides ammo to reload.

also, overheating.

>>718901543
Hold your horses kiddo, I'm just telling things like they are. I'm not advocating for it.

Both Doom and Halo, and System Shock, and more FPS that I can count got it right: god weapons in them have limited ammos, and you need to find them, and then the player is incentivized to only use them in dire circumstances. It works.

The issue is when you have a god weapon in your inventory with plenty of ammo you can buy and/or find, or farm for. And a minigun in this circumstance is almost always a god weapon. Then the easiest way to balance that shit is to give all the bullets 1 DMG.

It's lazy, it's probably not the best way to handle it, sure, but it works. If you're offering minigun freely to your players, miniguns that can be hoarded and bullets farmed for, then your players will just do so. And the easiest, most braindead way to balance that shit is to give all bullets from your minigun 1 DMG.

>>718897834
make it use rifle ammo

>>718897834
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhpTpRsmrCA

>>718898365
Imagine the BRRT.

>>718902272

it already does

>>718897834
>the pistol player and the minigun player need to have the same winrate or something
What causes this autism

>>718899418
I love how happy she is.

>>718901883
5.56x45mm NATO used in your favorite AR-15 derivatives is merely ~11% wider than 5mm. I ran through the wikia and couldn't find any mentions of the cartridge length. While it is used almost solely by Miniguns, it is used is Assault Rifles that appear to follow the AR-15 pattern. From this, we can assume 5mm is a comparable cartridge length and /should/ have similar lethality to 5.56mm.

>>718900032
that feels horrible though. It just makes you not want automatics.

>>718902674
Be like Fallout 4 and reduce bullet damage when you change a gun to automatic.

>>718902841
only if its incremental. like a 25% drop.

>>718899637
Awesome

>>718902551
>From this, we can assume
Literally nothing without any other measurements.
>what are case dimensions?
>what is case profile?
>what is propellent load?
>what is propellent composition?
>what is projectile profile?
>what is projectile mass?
>what is projectile composition?
Without any of these you can't draw any comparisons to 5.56 or any other documented cartridge, which by the way, may not even be the same in fallout as they are in real life.

>>718902551
nta but 5.56 would be woefully underpowered for use in a fallout situation
it's the smallest caliber considered mostly acceptable for killing people, and gives up a huge amount of utility to get that small
so much so that non military actors typically prefer higher calibers, since they're not as worried about carrying 300 rounds instead of 200 and still being lighter, they're worried about actually killing their target and punching through drywall/car doors/light cover in general
5.56 isn't even a real machine gun, the SAW is a 'squad automatic weapon'
7.62 is acceptable for a machine gun if it has to be man portable, but only because it has to be man portable
.50 BMG is standard for a reason
since it's supposed to be able to take on super mutants and robots and other shit, 5.56 ain't gonna cut it
it's also a door gun on vertibirds, making it comparable to the door guns on hueys which used 7.62

just consider that 5.56 is considered too small to ethically hunt deer with, and does are VERY comparable in size to human men

>>718900032
You can rip the guns off sentries if your body is high enough and they do good damage
Remembered several times where I saw an inactive turret in front of a gangs hideout tore it off and cleaned house, shit was fun as fuck and some of the few highlights of that boring as fuck game
Also LMG's where good if a bit inacurate

>>718903913
Retard

>.308 is bigger than 5.56

Whos the retard that named bullets. 5 is bigger number.

>>718903913
>7.62 is acceptable for a machine gun if it has to be man portable, but only because it has to be man portable
>.50 BMG is standard for a reason
Are you talking about fallout or some actual military? 7.62 is definitely more common than .50 cal.

>>718904606
Same guy that made up wire gauge.

>>718899853
Rising Storm 2
>>718898934
>>718898224
Syndicate 2012 Remake. You only get it for small periods (and the flamethrower for even less) but it is pretty much even graze an enemy and watch them be cut in half. If I remember right this includes the air speeder bikes that are only used for the fight on top of the train too.

>>718899418
My kinda woman.

>>718904636
the m2 is much more common than the m240 on armored vehicles
since power armor and vertibirds would fall under that, i'd expect them to use hmgs (m2s) instead of mmgs (m240s)

>>718903913
>nta but 5.56 would be woefully underpowered for use in a fallout situation
.223 is one of the most powerful ammunition types in FO1-2. Retard.

>>718904606
Inches vs millimeters.
Gauges actually make sense as well, but most people find them confusing. A 12 gauge gun means you can cast 12 bullets for it from a single pound of lead. A 12 pound gun takes 12 pounds of lead to make a single ball. So lower gauges are bigger until it hits 1, then pounds are bigger.
But to someone who doesn't know all the ins and outs, it's really hard to compare a 20 gauge to a .270 to a 5.45.
There's also the fact that sometimes they lie/there's wiggle room, like .38 firing out of a .357 no problem, as well as the diameter being the same or very near it, but the cartridges varying enormously, like .50 BMG vs .50 AE, or .22lr vs .223.

>>718904782
But it isn't more common. The deuce isn't a coax on any current vehicle so you're referring to flex, which doesn't have a standard implement and there's not a unit in the army deploying exclusively .50 cals in their flex mounts. Just to really rock your world: it's pretty common to see saws in flex mounts.

>>718904907
.223 isn't even the same as 5.56 retard
go ahead and shoot 5.56 out of your .223 rifle and 7.62 out of your .308 and see how it goes
game stats=/=reality anyways

>>718899186
With smoke to break locks and a 3d figure eight pattern you can basically never get shot down. You just needed gunners with decent aim who realized the pattern and saved overheat for the hover points. Kinda rare but mops the other team

>>718905063
>go ahead and shoot 5.56 out of your .223 rifle and 7.62 out of your .308 and see how it goes
I've done both of these both ways. It's not nearly as big of a deal as you think it is.

>>718905063
>go ahead and shoot 5.56 out of your .223 rifle and 7.62 out of your .308 and see how it goes
Absolutely nothing unless your gun is a chinesium piece of shit that can't handle a tiny bit of extra pressure?
Are you retarded? You can use 5.56 and .223 interchangable in fallout BTW.

>>718904291
That the enemies get to have rigs where they carry heavy guns around but you have to drop them is a sign of how games suffer from terminal everyman. You have to be han solo, only the enemy gets a jetpack and a laser gun.

>>718905063
>go ahead and shoot 5.56 out of your .223 rifle and 7.62 out of your .308 and see how it goes
I'll do you one better. I've shot 5.56 out of a 9mm.

>>718905352
If we gave the player any abilities aside from shooting and maybe if they're lucky, climbing over things, we'd have to program more and balance more stuff
And we're so fucking lazy

>>718897834
Simple. Each player has 100 points to spend towards weapons and perks. The minimum costs like 90 points so you sacrifice nearly all other utility to use it

>>718903913
>does are VERY comparable in size to human men
can't be a /k/ post without the ol' freudian slip

chaingun > minigun

>>718899075
They could solve that by simplifying calculations for miniguns or making them a separate weapons category that utilizes a different, less resource intensive formula. Why didn't they?

>>718900680
>I shouldn't lose to an olympic athlete in a run-off because I'm a scrawny skinnyfat nerd that gets winded from walking a set of stairs
Lel

>>718906417

miniguns are just chainguns with multiple barrels thoughbeit

>>718899186
Bfbc2 gone the other way of bullshit with m134 somehow able to damage IFV and tanks.

>>718907078
Kind of? Chainguns use a rotary breech mechanism, while Miniguns use rotating barrels and a rotary breech mechanism but the two operate a bit differently despite being rotary.

>>718907412
I could dig that kind of mechanics if they would be limited to optics and such, kinda like bf2142 battle walkers had weakspots you could damage with small arms

>>718906417
Based

>>718897953
>minigun
>>>>>>>Halo
Huh? The stationary ones? The ones on Warthogs?

>>718903913
Next you will say how 5.56 is designed solely to wound and not kill like the big manly 7.62 and how 5.56 failed to even penetrate bushes in Vietnam.

>>718907510
>Chainguns use a rotary breech mechanism
Not all of them. The term is kind of a catch-all that boils down to being an autoloader that doesn't use any energy from the ammunition to cycle the action. A handheld revolver that uses an electric motor to rotate the cylinder and recock the hammer could arguably be called a chaingun.

>>718897834
>Well how would you balance it?

thats easy, you dont

>>718908186
>Rotate the cylinder
Yeah, rotary action.
I can't think of a single chaingun that doesn't use a rotary action in some way.
Also I think by definition they need to use belt feed.

>>718908236
I guess that's clearer than saying every chaingun has a rotary breech mechanism. The bushmaster only has one breech, but does scoop up ammo and spit out cases with a rotating mechanism.

>>718897724 (OP)
>Minigun firing 7.62 has less damage than assault rifle firing 5.56
>Heats up faster than the .50 cal
Wtf were valve thinking? How come a game company that focuses on games involving guns to be so clueless about them?

where's my thermal clip?

>>718897724 (OP)
>Multiple barrels to allow for a higher rate of fire without overheating the barrels
>Somehow games interpret this as them firing at 600RPM optimistically while also overheating instantly

>>718901969
Contrary to popular belief, miniguns are air-cooled. Synthetik, the one game where most guns can and do overheat, even makes it an exception.

>>718908817
99% of guns are air-cooled. Air cooling generally means a gun overheats faster than a watercooled gun.

>>718907078
Miniguns and rotary autocannons don't use chains howsoever.

>>718908042
Yeah, Halo 3 let you rip off stationary turrets from the mounts.

>>718897834
just make it more realistic. you walk slow, can't turn that fast, are slower the more ammo you bring with you, enemies can hear your spin up from a mile away and avoid you, etc

>>718898289
more like tickle zone

>>718897834
Each individual round does low damage.
It needs 0,5 seconds to charge up before fireing.
Movement speed while fireing is drastically reduced.
Fireing for over a minute overheats the weapon and it can't be used for 10 seconds.

>>718897834
>2,000 and 6,000 rounds per minute
Almost no game does that, pretty much every vidya minigun goes around 900 rpm, making it an oversized assault rifle.
However, the one in Aliens vs Predator (1999) does indeed have the 6000 rpm, meaning it expends the whole 800 round belt in 8 seconds, and even a gentle tap on the trigger spits out around 30 bullets. It chews through aliens easily and kills predators with like a single second burst I think. How is it balanced?
>everyone's running speed is very quick (the minigun doesn't slow you down either), and you fight in twisting, poorly lit corridors with multiple exits, so it's easy to jump you
>you can't move while firing and the crosshair kicks wildly if you try to shoot while moving
>minigun is actually very accurate which ironically makes it harder to spray-and-pray

>>718910356
I think the minigun in AVP2 also generally mulches enemies in a fraction of a second. Based.

>>718910429
I was less fond of that one, personally. It fires at around only 2700 rpm, which might still be a lot but it feels so slow compared to AVP1.

>>718897724 (OP)
the finals did this and it pissed me off so much

>>718897834
balance?
it's supposed to be strong

>>718899378
CoD4 just to cite one

also I'd like to offer a cookie to whoever shits on games that are balanced for the sake of being balanced, particularly whoever brought up the stupid shit where all guns should have exactly the same damage per second, fuck that bullshit

>>718897834
Lots of giant angry boars

>>718897943
Dumb tranime poster

>minigun literally has 40% less dps than starter rifle
This must be the worst minigun in all of gaming

For me it's anything with "level"

>>718898289
i mean, irl it's like this

>>718909312
Miniguns in real life don't actually spin up before firing, they just start firing and spinning at the same time

>>718899418
the square projectile right in the middle of the screen looks terrible

>>718897834
lack of a reticle. you have to continiously shoot to aim, no precision, no moderation, only overkill. make overkill somehow detrimental, easiest way is ammo carried.

>>718897834
It already balances itself through obscene ammo consumption. Also, it is so heavy that you have to carry it in your hands, no way to carry it around on your back or something, and it slows you down a lot. But whatever you do, don't balance it like in op's pic, because that is just "We too wanted a cool minigun but have no idea how to balance it, so we made it useless". At this rate, why even have it in the game.