Thread 718914936

There's a game about learning Japanese.
Let's learn together!

DEATH!

Thanks dad!

Help me fill the immigration form, Mari-san!

does it teach the real meaning of が or is it bullshit slop for women

>>718915014
I see you haven't learnt the "don't address yourself with an honorific" lesson yet

>>718915017
Keep reading the thread as I continue playing through the game!

YAY!

This is bullshit for casuals. Someone should make a hardcore language learning game where you're just shipwrecked in Japan or wherever and nobody else speaks English.

naruhodo

>和語
>game is clearly filled with Chinese and western loan words
Dropped.

>>718915380
that's what this game is about. you're a tourist learning japanese as you travel through the country

>>718915594
Is this game better than Hiragana Forbidden Speech? For context, forbidden speech teaches you jap vocab, and slowly transitions the game until the whole game is fully japanese.

>>718915594
Does it ever turn off the furigana? Nobody talks with that in real life.

>>718915651
That is not Japanese.

>game
>learning
草

>>718915703
Ah my bad, its actually romanian.

Thanks for the concern, but I'm N1 level already

>>718915380
you could get the exact same experience just playing an rpg or something in japanese, any game that requires you to read really. anyway time to abandon thread before all the smug japanese learners arrive

Oguri-cap's hometown, Takamatsu!

>>718915793
Is there any way to skip earlier parts? Like if I already know a few words/Hiragana/some Kanji?

Wait, this game has a demo. Fuck off OP, you should have led with that first

THE MOTHERFUCKING が IS HERE!

>>718915880
I don't think so.

Surely you can answer this

>>718915793
I got filtered by the first quiz when I forgot to say "tanaka-san desu" and just entered "tanaka-san". Totemo hazukashiii.

>>718916018
doko = where
koko = here
soko = there
asoko = over there (not close to either of us)

Kouen!

>>718916018
Surely you can answer this...

>>718916126
asoko, because it is over there?

>>718916126
this looks piss easy, to be honest. when does it actually start?

suddenly a rival character

>>718916164
正解です!

>>718916173
I don't know but I see difficulty level in words/kanji, so should be getting harder.

>>718916173
listen negro, no resource will ever skip materials for you because you know a tad bit than a starter. Learn from scratch or don't learn at all.

>>718916126
Wait wait, is this game on mobile? The way the button layouts suggests to me that this is mobile adjacent

I think this game would be really good at teaching newbie. almost all the texts are in Japanese and there's a lot of listening quiz too. So, you'll be fully immersed.

>>718916331
Any idea how far it goes?

>>718914936 (OP)
>Wanting to learn japanese when getting into japan is so easy even literal nigerians are given free visas nowadays
kek

>>718916363
not very far. basic level only i think based on this description

>>718916329
yeah it's on playstore

Surely everyone can answer this

This game is pretty racist, it's implying everyone in takamatsu talks like a fucking retard.

>>718914936 (OP)
those are all kanji

>>718916609
1 and 3 are already lined up correctly
Just swap 2 with 4's pic and you're good

>>718916559
Is the Japanese voice dialogue AI generated?

>>718916838
NGMI

>>718916897
No, it's microsoft sam level.

I think I'm done with the game.

The difficulty level is too basic for me.
I looked up youtube for future contents and it's a quite lengthy game (20+ hrs) and I don't think it's completed yet.
I think it's an excellent game for newbies who want to start learning Japanese.
If you're serious about learning Japanese, I'd recommend downloading "Kanji Study" app. It's paid (1 time purchase) now, but it's well worth it with so much kanji and example sentences for contextual usages.

Japanese learners must be the single most easy to squeeze money out of demographic.

>>718917104
Well, I enjoyed your general thoughts of the game anyways OP. From the steam discussions, it seems that the dev is still working on the game, and might release more up to N4 if there is interest in it.

>>718917104
I got to the chef and I'm pretty bored already, yeah.

I think this is duolingo level. Sure, you can disable the furigana in the menu nobody is ever going to use, but the quizzes are the same dogshit "put sentence fragments together" or "type a basic word after hearing it" shit. I don't think you'd get anything out of this if you were treating it as a primary learning source. The story is dull and the characters are grating with their stupid retard textbook vocab.

>>718917273
>>718917325
Yea.
I know 2 other games centered around japanese languages:
Shashingo: Learn Japanese with Photography, which is also pretty basic, but with more exploration interactivity
and one of my favorite:ウーマンコミュニケーション very fun word-shooter game with dirty words and meta plot. this one isn't a language learning game.

>>718917473
I do like shashingo a lot. Havent checked it back in a while myself, but for quick vocab stuff it is pretty kino,
Personally I happily shill >>718915651 myself.
It is also about 20 hours long, and as stated, its gimmick is that it slowly transitions to hiragana as you learn more of the vocab. It has a demo too, so do give it a whirl.

>>718915017
>does it teach the real meaning of が
nobody knows that

>>718915017
>>718917696
just watch cure dolly if you wanna split hairs about sentence structure. I dont expect a video game to spend a full 5 minutes explaining it
>https://youtu.be/DJ_RKFi7GKU?si=K_jjCBgB9vQl4s6d

>>718915726
why do japanese say grass when they mean lol?

>>718917840
kusa

>>718917473
マンコ was pretty fun until the whole ending gimmick, I liked it more before the DDLC "twist". There was that recent Chinese game that got localised into Japanese, 文字遊戯 if you're looking for more wordplay.

>>718917840
So it started out as 笑, which morphed into w (the first letter), which morphed into wwwwwwww, which morphed into 草, because wwww looks like grass.

For me it's 漢字でGO

>>718917840
because they also use w which looks like grass

>>718918010
Anon, sugoi! Nihongo jouzu!

>>718918043
For me, it's the manga special move stages.

For me, it's jpdb.io, then picking a game, novel or VN I want to play/read and sorting by most frequent.

>>718914936 (OP)
Even Japanese themselves don't know kanji for shit
Why do they even have it?

>everything teaches Keigo for absolutely no reason

i'm not trying to become a salary man in japan, why do they do this.
>you MUST SHOW the UPMOST RESPECT to Japanese by learning the longest and most polite forms of everything FIRST
no, fuck off. normal people don't speak like that. you will go much further as a tourist or a fan of pop culture media with casual japanese. if you can understand the actual content of a sentence, you don't need to know the 6 extra polite vowels tacked on the end.

>>718917696
https://konomu.github.io/wa-ga-basics

>>718918281
This is a skill issue. You're looking at retarded materials designed for business use, for whom all that matters is ensuring you don't offend the customer or your boss.

>>718915017
>bullshit slop for women
Is the implication here that (((they))) don't want women to learn languages?

>>718914936 (OP)
Drop pirated copy torrent or fuck off

>>718918698
If you're too fucking stupid to pirate a game, you're too stupid to learn Japanese anyway.

>>718918826
>If you're too fucking stupid to pirate a game
I cant find anyone reliable who publish pirated indie titles

>>718918698
the usual place, retard

>>718919047
Im not fucking using cs run

>>718917206
>Japanese learners must be the single most easy to squeeze money out of demographic.
Language learners in general, really. Retards who don't want to do anything that would actually help to improve their abilities (read more, listen) but instead grasp at any meme method they can find, hoping that somehow, magically, "this time" it will make them learn the language.
But sure, continue splashing around in 6-inch deep water expecting to learn to swim.

>>718919217
They're not language learners, they're morons. The kind of people who mistake practice for "talent".

>>718914936 (OP)
>マリ
oh no no no no. why did you make me remember OP, you bastard

>>718917206
People have been saying to read free textbooks, use Anki and immerse for two decades. Only idiots pay money for these Japanese learning games and shortcuts.

>>718914936 (OP)
Damn... little does anyone know this shit is more complicated than C. I've been learning for 20 years now.

>Cure Dolly (her autism is really charming)
>Kaishi 1.5k
>Koji Seto
>Lamp, Love Solfege, Hiroshi Yoshimura, Fishmans, Yellow Magic Orchestra, KikuoHana
>Forcing myself to read Yotsuba&!
>Typing on a Realforce R2 PFU Limited Edition
Slowly, but surely, I will learn Japanese. The bare minimum in a day is doing my daily Anki grind.

>>718919217
the problem with language learners is that they aren't aware of what they don't know, so they're extremely susceptible and liable to get duped. couple that with copious amounts of snake oil floating around and everyone being too lazy and taking the path of least resistance and you have a killer combination.
the reality is if you're going solo you'll need
>a grammar guide to get you started. some beginner material like tae kim, cure dolly, even a textbook like genki or minna no nihongo, or whatever the kids use these days. beware white lies
>then some reference material for lookups
>>dictionaries (e-j and j-e. later kokugo)
>>grammar reference. e.g. dictionaries of japanese grammar or the handbook of japanese grammar patterns for teachers and learners (to look up structures and shit)
>>JLPT grammar book and past exams (50% of an exam is knowing your way through the format)
>>then dictionary of synonyms (disambiguate similar words like 方向, 方位, 方面, 方角). they're in japanese though, so good luck
>>one of those handbooks for teaching japanese grammar to foreigners, which explains nuances and pitfalls and shit foreigners fall for
e.g. here's a pic that explains the difference between 4 sentences: パリへ行くとき、買う(c)/買った(a) and パリへ行ったとき、買う(d)/買った(b) (1st is I'm gonna buy it before I go. 2nd is I bought before going(arriving) there. 3rd is buying after the trip. 4th is it was bought after getting there)
you don't need all of it (especially the handbook for teaching grammar and the dictionary of synonyms), but they all help in their own ways

>>718920445
>more complicated than C.
the programming language?

>"learn" Japanese
>do ok in tests
>go read something for realsies
>can't understand shit
>go talk to someone for realsies
>can't understand JACK shit
what a waste of time

>>718915017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBE9RIMSTrg
I got you

>>718921047
Language tests and real Japanese are incredibly different and the only want to improve in the latter is to fuck up and embarrass yourself by using it with natives all the fucking time

>>718921002
forgot pic

>>718921047
if you think international tests for any language will help you function in society will help you function, you're sorely mistaken
t. c2 in a language, couldn't ever hope to write a convincing cover letter or pass a job interview
as for learning to talk in jap, you have to go out of your way and research how to say stuff for real. take notes and write templates (asking for a shoe in a larger size, asking for a painkiller at the drugstore, writing a formal letter (find templates), etc.)
you're never gonna escape that, no matter how many exams you pass in any language

>>718921002
>3rd is buying after the trip
It's after you get there, not necessarily after you get back
>4th is it was bought after getting there
It's actually "you bought it after getting there"
/v/ is full of dekinai as always

>>718918347
Christ, why does that link to a jop book with 348 pages

>>718921002
>they aren't aware of what they don't know
A problem only solved by... reading more and listening. Yes, it obviously sucks ass in the early stages when you literally don't know enough to stay afloat, but that is why you just keep on going.

All I care about is playing SNES JRPGs and PC98 VNs, I licherally don't need more.

ALRIGHT FUCKERS
DEFINE:
電車
汽車
国鉄
気動車
MTT
停車場

Good thread

>>718922593
electric train, steam train, national railway, moving vehicle?, some faggot term only railfans know, rail yard.

Looks like I only fucked one up.

>>718923408
wrong, wrong, correct, wrong, technically correct, wrong

>>718921603
It's crazy you needed a whole image for this when I just learned it innately by reading.

Grammar is a spook. You need an absolute base minimum to start reading so you know the difference between の and へ, but you really don't need to get into the where and why of things. That comes from consuming content, because whenever you get it wrong, the sentence won't make any sense.

>>718923507
Oh sweet, are you the JMdict conspiracy schizo?

>>718922593
>電気を動力源として軌道上を走る鉄道車両。
>蒸気機関車で客車や貨車を引き、レールの上を走る列車。
>日本の国有鉄道事業を主たる目的に設立された公共企業体。
>内燃機関を動力として走行する鉄道車両。
>???
>駅。

>>718922254
>reading more and listening
won't teach you how grammar works (e.g. differences between で, にて, において)
won't teach you how to use the language
>inb4 I only care about animu
half-literate ignoramuses not welcome

Been playing Tsukihime for immersion lately.
I wish it was a novel like Garden of Sinners. Shitty sprites, shitty tiny window and font, pointlessly verbose, Ciel and Arc's routes are super repetitive feeling when done back to back, no voice acting is fine but no music is killing me. Switched to Kanojo x Kanojo x Kanojo for an afternoon just to mix it up and instead of feeling like a struggle to keep up interest I was able to play for 3 hours straight without noticing the time going by.

I refuse to drop it though, just hoping Mahoyo is more interesting since I'm gonna read that next.

Can't we just force Japanese people to use English?

>>718923921
>won't teach you how grammar works
>won't teach you how to use the language
It will give you enough reference points for how words and grammar are used that you will eventually figure out how to do it yourself.
Your ability to output is fundamentally limited by your ability to comprehend input. All language learning roads lead to read more and listen.

>>718922254
Whats a good beginner immersion that's not fucking boring. No i don't enjoy slice of life anime's. So far the only one that was somehow okay for me was One Piece.

>>718914936 (OP)
no thanks

>>718923656
wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong

>>718924058
Just pick whatever is interesting to you. You like shounenshit so watch/read more shounenshit. Shrimple as that. It's not like shounenshit is going to be notably complex writing.

>>718924135
Vocaroo.

>>718920915
>Cure Dolly
didn-t she die ages ago?

>>718923584
you only need the sentences and the timelines.
>needed a whole image for this
gee, anon, could it be that the book isn't directly meant for learners and it's actually a set of guidance notes for educators teaching the language which I'm just repurposing to disambiguate so you don't have to rack your brains guessing? nah, that's crazy stuff, right
>>718924054
>just read read read read
passive consumption won't teach you to use the language in real-time. you need to use it in order to develop spontaneity. I only suggested reference material so you can take quickly look up stuff and take notes notes to help internalize stuff quicker

>>718915651
am I suppose to know what that is? looks like every other rpg maker xp game

>>718914936 (OP)
I genuinely learned from the demo

>write down and copy lessons from Tae Kim
>do the exercises too
>do kanji exercises daily
>each day learn two new things, forget five more
fugg
wat do?

Giving you a japanese hack for the wa vs ga thing, feel fortunate to enter this thread if you are a noob.
Ga marks the subject, Wa works as a ":", think of it like the title of chapter, a hack to make the sentences simple. Examples in english
>Maria's purse: The contents were stolen
>The classroom: Marcos cleaned it
>Last year's travel: It was fun
>Evil: Bad
>My future: How will it be?
>That pretty girl: Saw her yesterday
>Heat: Because it makes me sweat, I don't like it.
And so on.

>>718918043
It's really funny watching native Japanese streamers fail in that game

>>718924331
She did, but her legacy lives on.

>>718923507
>電車
>electric train
>wrong
are you actually retarded?

>>718925325
No he's "trolling" by pretending to be retarded.

Individual glyphs for specific concepts is the most retarded niggerlicious thing a language can have
Nips should have rejected that stupid chinkshit and switched to hiragana and katakana if not outright romaji because that shit is still awfully slow to write
It's legitimately low tier civilization shit

Is there a good alternative to Cure Dolly? I like the way she explains things, but I find her voice is too distracting to focus on the lessons.

>>718914936 (OP)
Unfortunately 99.9% of wagotabi players are ngmi. Do you belong to the other 0.1%?

>>718925480
The Cure Dolly transcripts.

>>718925480
https://www2.gwu.edu/~eall/vjgnew/vjghomepage/vjghome.htm

>>718923992
>Shitty sprites, shitty tiny window and font, pointlessly verbose
holy ngmi energy

>I refuse to drop it though,
gmi?

>>718925325
my ocr also says electric train but shows the individual kanji to be electric and car, rather than train

>>718925393
It works in Chinese because you can infer meaning and sound from the components. You can still infer the meaning in languages that borrow the script but the sounds go right out the window

>>718925605
The game NOT as fun as I thought they were gonna be and I'm a huge fucking mark for vampires. Realta Nua and HA were more fun. But yes, I'm gonna force myself to finish it no matter what.

>my ocr says
lul

>>718917206
That would be furries.

>>718925325
no
"electric train" is too general for the proper use and too specific for the colloquial use
if you want the details japanese wikipedia has a nice long page

>>718917206
Nah, it's card game players

>>718925894
You have severe autism.

>>718915017
>が
hate it but it's basically both a conjunction like "but" but also emphasisis the part of the sentance that take place BEFORE it, compared to stuff like は or を which targets after, this is confusing because Japanese sentence structure is backwards, basically you have to think and talk in Yoda like sentances

>>718924331
Retard.

>>718925894
just say "yes, i am in fact actually retarded" next time

>>718924567
reinforce stuff? just a glance at your notes and stuff should be enough
>>718925393
>Individual glyphs for specific concepts
that's a gross oversimplification which shows how dumb you are
what's next, are you gonna start bitching about affixes and compounding in english?

>>718925894
It actually is just "train" because no one but supreme autists are going to specify.
>but Japanese specifies between 電車 and 列車 and 汽車 so these are all different!
Wrong, trains. All of them. 地下鉄 and 新幹線 can be "subway" and "bullet train" I guess.

>>718915943
see, particle indicating the subject is so fucking confusing, it emphasis the part that takes place BEHIND が, whereas most particles are addressing AFTER the particle

>>718926135
Cure Dolly the character and channel is still dead though

>>718915840
why are you at bumfuck hokkaido?

>>718926135
>You will never get spanked by rl gilf version of cure dolly
Why even live bros

I'm pretty sure the average japanese person isn't going to give a fuck if you call a steam train, or heck even the subway densha

>he needs more than text in his video games
ngmi

>>718926418
>most particles are addressing AFTER the particle
lol

>>718924419
Anon, i wrote the title like twice there. With proper initialization and everything. How did you miss that?
>>718915907
Alright my bad, the demo is literally just the airport and only goes so far to teach you like one sentence. Fuckin cheapskates.
>>718926135
Well you ruined my image of her. I will simply refuse to believe this, and in my mind she is still dead from cancer

>>718926508
speak properly. I'd never forgive some retard who called a regular train the tube

>>718926203
If yo're still learning to read your own native language as an adult it's complete shit
You weebs put it on a pedestal because muh anime

>>718922254
actual otaku stuff being the motivating factor never was enough because I either already knew the story, didn't know the story or as of recently, can AI translate it. So from all sides you just find infinite reasons to not be motivated

>>718926689
>learning to read
why are you so hung up on this point? being able to read a word is no help if you don't know what it means nor how to use it
I always ask retards how just "being able to sound out a word" helps if you're gonna end up looking it up anyway. no one has ever given a satisfying answer

The median English speaker can't define "abrogate" so really native English speakers can't speak English. They don't even know how to use dialogue tags correctly when writing, and constantly fuck up the rules for semicolon use. Spelling is a total crapshoot, all those loanwords completely fuck everything up. And don't get me started on pronunciation, Received Pronunciation is the only correct way to speak and the number of people who can speak properly is effectively zero. What a completely shit language.

>>718925894
let me know if you need any more help lil bro

>>718922593
I read the first as Denkisha until I realized

>>718925618
車 is car it even looks like one

>>718926843
Yes, you search it up
How do you search the word you can't even type out?
Do you not see the stupidity of adding thousands of glyphs to the process?

>>718925393
it's beautiful though, and it's more compact, it's all going to be replaced by the true efficient language of the future anyway, 1s and 0s

>>718914936 (OP)
Why are you investing effort into what will be an African language in a generation or two? See >>718926153

>>718927150
>moving the goalposts
it's clear that you're just a dumb uneducated faggot who's here solely to fling shit so I won't waste my time spoonfeeding you.

>>718915425
>Japanese sentences generally follow the SOV order

as a native spanish speaker this is good news. I might try it.

>>718927290
spanish isn't SOV you mong

>>718926135
Cult-leader by day, japanese teacher by night.

>>718927290
it's not really true though
https://www2.gwu.edu/~eall/vjgnew/02wordorder/02wordorder.html

>>718927402
your mom is sov faggot.

>>718927471
she's Mexican so no

>>718927290
taconese is SVO though. e.g.
>eres marica
>tragas pollas todas las noches
>tu hermana es zorra

>>718927197
>More compact
English has 26 letters, all pretty distinct
Hiragana and katakana are more complicated to write and kanji adds thousands of characters to memorise
There's no point in compacting the size on paper that literally grows on trees

>>718927272
In the words of Saint Terry
An idiot admires complexity, a genius admires simplicity, a physicist tries to make it simple, for an idiot anything the more complicated it is the more he will admire it, if you make something so clusterfucked he can't understand it he's gonna think you're a god cause you made it so complicated nobody can understand it. That's how they write journals in Academics, they try to make it so complicated people think you're a genius

Making something as basic as fucking reading and writing require the knowledge of how to parse thousands of scribbles instead of the beauty of 26 only appeals to fart huffing pseuds

>>718927719
there's a lot of points, especially digitally or in situations where you need to be concise, they also read faster on average

you know what time it is: time to stfu

>>718926594
Was this more subtle in Chinese or something?

no idea why teaching materials still insist on telling you there's something like a word order. not as if people can't handle the truth. just say how it is from the get-go. it just creates confusion down the road.

i get there are certain thing that are too complex initially that need to be chopped up into half-truths until someone gets the big picture but that's really not one of them imo. it's so fundamental to how the language and particles work.

>>718927126
My favorite kanji are the ones that look like the word it means, like how お酒 looks like a bottle of alcohol.

>>718927719
>western tongues are simple
not going to bother anymore

>>718927787
Text takes up an irrelevantly small amount of storage
And speed reading is a meme, you can go on and read fast but what does it matter unless you spend years training yourself to actually understand it

>>718914936 (OP)
this is all wrong by the way

>>718928309
淵 clearly two cliffsides with a rickety-ass suspension bridge between them and a waterfall off to the side for the cinematic vista

>>718928714
I love that chuuni ass kanji

>>718928326
They're all intertwined with their roots in greek and latin
And the entry barrier doesn't demand reprogramming yourself to learn thousands of characters so yes

>>718928860
>And the entry barrier doesn't demand reprogramming yourself
>t. non-asian

>>718928326
It's actually Japanese which is simple if we're talking about tongues.

>>718928910
Vietnamese and Filipino have proven that you can take the antiquated caveman scribbles and translate it into an actual thought out alphabet

>>718917206
I haven't payeded a single cent

>>718929785
because they're both latin scripts you retarded faggot

>>718930887
and thus your gains are pitiful. give in, anon. paypig out, drink the app duolingo koolaid

i'm at that weird spot where kanji feels like an impossible challenge, and furigana trivializes everything.
i need to grind anki harder

>>718928714
>>718928309
That's how Chinese characters work

>>718931019
Yeah and they (or at least the Vietnamese) used Chinese characters before switching to a Latin alphabet. That's the point he's making.

>>718931165
Don't forget to immerse too.

>>718924331
>>718926135
I remember going down this rabbit hole years ago it's some really wild stuff and I'm amazed more mainstream essayslop youtube channels haven't delved into it at all.

>>718931729
>I remember going down this rabbit hole years
... why?

>>718932119
I was using Cure Dolly's videos and then when presented with the possible connections to a old feminist spanking cult my interest was piqued? Why do anything on the internet?

>>718931390
The funny thing is that even the Chinese use Pinyin
Kanji as a whole is only really defensible from the sunk cost fallacy position

imagine chosing as your teacher a non-native speaker whom you've never heard talk freely in your target langauge. doesn't get much more retarded than this

>>718928407
it's been relevant thousands of times in the last 20 years whenever translating anything from JP into a language that's more verbose/inflated character wise

>>718931390
Vietnamese still use Chinese characters.

>>718932585
why do jap teachers not require you to speak the language? in any other language I've seen the teacher immediately asks you to rephrase your questions and remarks in the target language

>>718933656
Excuse me I mixed them up with Taiwanese

>>718926135
she pioneered vtubing when you really think about it. and all because she couldn't reveal her face to make japanese learning videos due to her leading a lesbian spanking cult.

>>718933667
>why do jap teachers not require you to speak the language?
that's not a thing

>>718917104
i've never seen one of these games go beyond n5 content. i don't think one ever will. guess they know their audience are dekinais who'll lose interest before getting beyond beginner level.

>>718915380
>Someone should make a hardcore language learning game where you're just shipwrecked in Japan or wherever and nobody else speaks English
Anon, that's literally just playing untranslated japanese games. Download an eroge that catches your eye, open a dictionary and go at it.

or maybe don't

>>718933667
Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a language learning class? If you can already speak you don't need the class.

>>718914936 (OP)
any games for learning russian?
pic unrelated

>>718923992
>no voice acting
>no music
Huh?? Then does this vn have audio at all???

>worked at a restaurant with japanese guys through college
>Functionally illiterate but have no problem talking shit in japanese now

>>718926065
so many words when all you need to say is が states the intended subject in whatever context

>>718926065
>Japanese sentence structure is backwards
No it's not

>>718936332
>take classes
>jap teacher doesn't tell you "speak japanese"
yes it is
>>718937893
you don't know how to say everything. the idea is to ask the teacher stuff like "how do you say I'd rather not (e.g. I'd rather not wait an hour to eat)" so you can get a clue without having to stumble in the dark until you one you happen to come across an expression that might work

>>718939208
its been the best way for me to understand it, it technically just the subject but they way you perceive it when looking at how your are supposed to say compared what you naturally want to structure it's basically just completely backwards

>>718921002
you are a pretentious who will NEVER be a woman
nice bait though

Is Renshuu reliable for learning Japanese? It seems better that Du*ling* at least.

>>718939849
goddammit just look up grammar points on bunpro or something as you read. steer clear of (((apps)))

>>718939356
>naturally
You can't use that word there.

>>718939849
Just type the phrase into google.

>immerse read read READ
Yeah ok that's nice and all but how the FUCK am I supposed to know how to read the scribbles in the first place?

>>718942356
>install hover dictionary
>find word
>hoover over it
>read pop-up
simple as
>b-but it's a gaym
textractor, texthooker
>b-but this g-game
OCR
>b-but the f-font is all w-weird
IME Pad
>b-but
no excuses

>>718940483
>>718940603
No you don't understand I NEED my studying to be in a game-like format like I'm a child.

>>718942875
>they don't learn the same way I do
>i must cry about it and act like a pretentious faggot
you people sicken me sometimes

>>718943109
>no you don't understand I'm an INDIGO CHILD I need to learn in the most inefficient way my teacher TOLD me!
No child left behind has been a fucking disaster for the human race.

>>718942356
the japanese guide is literally:

1) learn kana
2) immerse

you really only need to know kana and learn kanji through words

can you learn jap in duolingo? I've been on it for a few days. I've only learned some common words and phrases, but it doesn't actually seem like it will completely teach me the language.

>>718938289
Heartbeat SFX and Japanese bell chime SFX. That's it.

>>718943780
>some common words and phrases
duolingo will teach you that only unfort.

duolingo doesn't teach you shit
friend of mine has been using it for like a year and he SUCKS ASS
guy doesn't even know what a godan verb is

>>718943780
nope, if you have any real interest in learning the language you will outgrow it fast.

>>718921603
Source? Looks like a terminal which I find neat.

>>718943404
>duoshitgo, langq, lingodeer, etc
>anything but a waste of time
pick one
you've been given a very efficient set of resources. your refusal to acknowledge and use them tells me that you're more interested in dumb bells and whistles than actual learning
if you're that fucking lazy to look up shit on a book, you have the DoJG as a yomichan dictionary and as a browsable anki deck

>>718945608
open wide
screenshot is from
>初級を教える人のための 日本語文法ハンドブック
>grammar handbook for the teaching of introductory japanese
litter.catbox moe/5tikhbcs57gvsl5i.pdf
there's also
>中上級を教える人のための 日本語文法ハンドブック
>grammar handbook for the teaching of intermediate and advanced japanese
litter.catbox moe/tvu6smpt7jj9s79h.pdf

you will never learn

>>718939441
>a pretentious

無理っす

>>718947493
>open wide
何で?赤ちゃんじゃない。まぁ質問に答えてくれてありがとう。

>>718918438
no, there are different styles of speaking for men and women in japanese, and a lot of stuff that teaches you japanese teaches the woman way of speaking.

it mostly just comes down to how polite you are being in what context, but its something many native speakers will instantly pick up on.

>>718949309
Did guy make this ugly shit?

All games and anime worth playing now get English translations be it official or fan so its pointless to spend 1000s of hours learning Japanese.

>>718914936 (OP)
I'm learning Chinese, because at least it is a culture with a future.
Sorry weeb.

if I want to start learning japanese, where should I begin?

>>718952179
https://learnjapanese.moe/guide/

>>718952179
>kana
>pronunciation
>some kind of frequency deck for vocab, maybe the top 1000-2000 most common words (this means KANJI) and 1-2 grammar textbooks/guides alongside
>spam reading (30-90 minutes a day on average, more is better) to build grammar and vocab knowledge, mine new words (use frequency to prioritize learning order)
>listen to a billion hours of spoken Japanese without subtitles
>minimal pairs
>talk to Japanese people for 1000 hours if you actually want to be able to speak it
>practice handwriting journal entries for a year if you actually want to learn handwriting
>done

The hard part is sticking to it long enough that "studying" becomes entertainment (the stuff you are actually interested in is 90% comprehensible). TMW, /djt/, r/LanguageLearning, all will hit these same beats with different amounts of emphasis.

Native Linux too. Nice to see.

This reminds me to look into all of the other "Learn Japanese" games of varying quality levels.

>>718952179
work visa, passport, plane ticket.

>>718952913
true...

>>718952913
Only possible if
a) you are a super qualified doctorate holder
or b) some kind of wallstreet finance manager type
or c) desperate enough to work a helpdesk job
or d) desperate enough to work as an english teacher pet monkey

>>718950707
ソースを尋ねるときはいつも赤ちゃんのように口を大きく開けること。そうしたら、ソースはちゃんと飲み込みやすくなるそうだ。
>>718952179
tae kim, cure dolly (transcripts available), or whatever. you can also take a textbook like genki, just beware the white lies (e.g. the use of は, the fact that they hide shit that's a bit complex and non-obvious like 先 when explaining directions at first, etc.)
for moonrunes, there are numerous tricks to them. you've got the radicals. the fact that most moonrunes fall into one or more of 6 categories (see rikusho). take advantage of phonosemantic compounds. some share their kun-readings and form compounds (e.g. 歓 and 喜 form 歓喜; 睡 and 眠 form 睡眠). you can also look up their meanings and etymology. those are juts some of your options. kanken autists know a lot more
remember that compounds fall into one of 5 categories:
>similar meanings (上昇, 増加, 低下, 火炎, 森林)
>opposites (上下, 強弱, 問答, 山川, 出入り, 売買)
>former modifies latter (和服, 美人, 悲報, 山道)
>latter is complement or object of former (登山(山に登る), 殺人(人を殺す), 求人(人を求める), 開店(店を開く))
>former negates latter (不便(not convenient), 未来(future, i.e. not yet come), 無言(no (lack of) words), 否定(negation, i.e. negate affirm), 非常(emergency, i.e. not ordinary; also, extreme)
the moonrune grind just takes time
anyway, for looking up grammar you're gonna want the dictionaries of japanese grammar (or an anki deck based on them, or whatever). you can also check out jlpt resources like bunpro or whatever

>>718920915
>her
>>718924331
>she
>>718925317
>her

>>718953320
even if you got a job over there you still have to study

>>718953845
Cure Dolly (the character) not Cure Dolly (the person).

>>718921776
Let me tell you something, slick. I'm european, I speak english at a C2 level. My clients online are always surprised to know I'm not an english native speaker. Years ago back when I was looking for employment my mother convinced me to get a BULATS. I got a score of 97 because two of the questions in the test had multiple correct answers, testing places do this so they can nitpick your answer and go "well it looks like you can still learn more, why not take our course since you're here? wink wink"

Anyway I told them to photocopy my result and add it to the CV I'd left at the testing place a few weeks ago (I had applied to be an english teacher since they were hiring)

Cunt of a woman never got back to me, hired some other cunt of a woman instead. It doesn't matter how good you are, you gotta have the right connections.

>>718955090
>english teacher
if you're not a licensed teacher (4 years), that's gonna be a tough one
>My clients online are always surprised to know I'm not an english native speaker
that's outside the scope of the CEFR. it's only concerned with the formation of speakers who can make themselves understood and doesn't seek to create speakers who can blend in seamlessly. this is made evident by its blatant disregard of phonology and pronunciation
furthermore, the level tested is way too low. a shitty argumentative essay and a short interview isn't enough to guarantee a level of literacy and language competence approaching that of a native

I tried playing nekopara but it's too hard. It's talking about the paint color on the shop's exterior.. tf? I see it has dual subs, but if I turn that on I feel like I'm cheating

>>718955305
*piss in japanese*

>>718955894
is the topic of paint colors too hard for you to wrap your mind around or something? lol

>>718955894
I'd compare translations to see only how certain expressions were handled (e.g. shit like 工夫)

>>718918281
>upmost
maybe finish learning your own language first retard nigger

>>718952585
Guides about anything which start shitting on "the conventional method" NEVER work. They're mind pollution for midwits.

>>718956793
Why?

>>718957041
Contrarianism.

>>718956074
I think I just got mad because it had 基調 and 外壁 and I didn't know either of those words

>>718957202
基調 you wouldve learned from watching the first ep of card captor sakura and 外壁 is self-explanatory

>>718952731
>handwriting
Waste of time, unless you enjoy it on its own, which may very well be the case.
Learn flick-input - that's the skill you actually need in 2025.

>>718952179
Step 1 find something you want to read like
https://gelbooru.com/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=japanese_text+translation_request
or
https://nhentai.net/language/japanese/popular

Step 2, start looking up text and memorizing

for real tho, look up cure dolly for grammar and jpdb for vocab.
keep at it for 1 hour each day. not 10 minutes. 1 hour. multiple sessions count. pomofocus if you want a timer to keep you on task

>>718917795
>watch this embarrassing middle aged male vtuber with a voice changer who literally stole all his content from Jay Rubin's book "Making Sense of Japanese - what the Textbooks don't Tell You"
Read the book and stop recommending that crap.

https://www.tofugu.com/reviews/making-sense-of-japanese/

https://archive.org/stream/MakingSenseJapanese/Making%20Sense%20Japanese_djvu.txt

>>718915594
You're not going to learn japanese with this game anon.
You're better off playing a japanese game made for japanese people and looking up things as you go.

>>718958204
Sounds like a pain in the ass

all i see? buncha n5ers overzealously giving advice to n6ers

>>718915017
>が/は bullshit
Not an issue if all you care about is reading, or at least not producing text or speech.
The Passive/Potential literally overlapping for over half the verbs, the Causative and the overall tacitity is far worse.

what's the wa/ga for ESL japs? is it a/the?

>>718917104
Learning Kanji is completely useless. Kanji aren't words. They also aren't used on their own so learning them on their own is pointless.
Learn vocab instead.

t. wasted 3 months on kanji when i was first starting out back in 2019.

PS - all language learning aps are a waste of money at best, and outright scams at worst.

>>718918192
>letting someone else pick your immersion content
ngmi.

>>718958508
They're the same sentence.

>>718918281
That's why you learn via reading and listening to content that interests you.
Textbooks and formal study aren't going to teach you anything.

>>718958609
check the line bro

>>718921047
You haven't started learning a language until you start reading it.
Everything before that is just preparation.

>>718924567
If you've read through tae kim already, then it's time to start reading.
Grab a manga with furigana and a dictionary and go.

>>718925480
Read the original book that he plagiarised, I posted it before. It's called "making sense of japanese" by jay rubin.

>>718927290
Except Japanese uses a topic AND subject and they are both different.
Have fun with that.

>>718958737
reading is for nerds

>>718937628
Why do you people always recommend porn?
What the fuck is wrong with you?

https://www.corocoro.jp/chapter/12536/viewer
corocoro is for kids so it's easier

>>718939849
No.
You won't get anywhere with a """language learning app""".

>>718942356
You learn the alphabet first. It only takes 2 weeks to learn kana.
>>718943780
Duolingo is a complete scam.

i feel like learning japanese would be dangerous because i don't even fully understand english vocabulary. i have no idea what a particle even is

>>718959172
It's same logic for why people can learn swear words before anything used in actual conversation. The unorthodox shit just works better.

Alright listen, this is how you learn languages:

>learn alphabets (if applicable)
>learn pronunciation
>learn BASIC grammar (grammar cannot be fully taught in a text book, it MUST be learned through exposure and intuition)
>learn basic words/phrases
>find something cool to read or listen to, keep a dictionary handy for words you're bound to not know
>rinse and repeat for a very long time

Works for literally any language, people overthink it, try to analyze it rationally, turn it into a math problem, and that's why they fail. You will make mistakes, you will not know "all of the nuance" for a long time. Just keep going and it'll eventually come naturally

>>718959336
Well, yes, you should probably become good in English before you start doing any studying in an astroturfed language used on a meaningless island in the middle of the ocean that just so happens to have some people with the ability to craft cute girls living in it.

>>718956793
did you only read the paragraph header?

>>718959665
i live for cute girls, i will learn japanese just to spite you

>>718959172
because they want to desperately convince people that their frankly degenerate hobbies can make them fluent
its basically the same level of delusion as the people who use things like duolingo

>>718959172
unironically some of the easiest dialogue you'll find.

>>718959336
>>718959856
>i have no idea what a particle even is
"helper words" that can't exist on their own. they have no meaning in isolation. instead they stick to the end of "regular words" to assign them grammatical roles in the syntax of a sentence. the vast majority of them perform several functions each depending on how they're used.

since each helper word fuses with its normal word and will move around with it, and the normal words are thus flagged as having specific role in a sentence, you can change around the word order much more freely than in many other languages

I have never once heard the words transitive / intransitive before attempting to learn jp.
Why should I learn english just to learn the most basic japanese

>>718959920
However, porn is usually so ungramattical it's effectively a dead end.

>>718918281
keigo (teineitai) is the default when interacting with real people, so the books are based around that, you sperg. plain forms become relevant later when they introduce subordinate clauses and quotes (plain formと思います, attributive modification, ~そうだ(hearsay), etc.)
media also makes liberal use of keigo too. especially shopkeepers, so it's not like you're wasting your time
the only thing that pisses me off is that there's no compendium of keigo. jlpt material just dumps the stuff ungrouped (ポイントカードはお持ちですか? i.e. ポイントカードをお持ちになっていらっしゃるでしょうか? assuming I got it right)
>>718956793
you need to start somewhere. you start with basic shit like nounです, then move on to other word classes. 高いです, 安いです, etc. you can't just dump entire sentences on people and expect them to swallow it all in one gulp. the main obstacle is learning how to find out how they go about expressing shit (e.g. complaining, recommending, expressing likes) because you can't just find straightforward equivalents for all english terms and structures (just look at words like old (年を取っている, 年を取った, 老年のnoun, 年配のnoun, 老いたnoun, etc. and 古い and 使い古した. and stuff with 旧 like 旧友)
>>718958508
horrible oversimplified explanation. a more fitting one would be
>(as for pikachu,) he's sleeping. (not sure about the others)
>pikachu is sleeping (oh hey, he's sleeping). alternatively, pikachu is the one sleeping (responds to 誰が寝ている)

>>718958609
the first one is what you'd reply to "what is Pikachu doing?", the second is what you'd reply to "who is sleeping?". The focus is different.

t. knows nothing about Japanese, just interpreting the graphic as given

>>718960093
because youll fundamentally need to understand whether the verb can act upon a direct object or not
in english you understand this based on repetition and sentence structure but in japanese you have none of the familiarity to differentiate the two

>>718960093
(Int)Transitive
Another spooky sounding thing that's efectively meaningless if all you care about is reading. It also exists in English, but since it brings no actual changes to anything it's just a waste of ink in dictionaries. Japanese are retarded and actually change verbs but again, you don't need to care if all you do is reading.

>>718960093
english has the concept, for example, you wouldn't say "Please bring", since bring requires an object. this just proves that textbook learning is not required to learn how a language works

copious amounts of coping rn

>>718960093
sexo zeta

>>718957387
You may have noticed the clause "if you actually want to". If not, you might fail an English comprehension exam let alone a Japanese comprehension exam.

This is like having Latin and Arabic being mixed into the everyday English language. The fuck is this shit.

>>718959856
Based

>>718959856
cringe + ngmi

last game I finished was omori. what should I play next
>>718960345
>knowing whether a verb acts upon an object is meaningless
you heard it here on /v/ first
have fun going mad over whether to use 折れる or 折る, 曲げる or 曲がる, etc.

teach me something genuinely interesting and not some basic bitch duolingo tier slop

>>718960941
The nearby を will make it more clear than the different verb most likely.

>>718961219
the object might be marked with は but whatever

>>718961163
like an expression or grammar?

>>718961382
There is a を > Transitive
There is not a を > Intransitive except in very very niche cases.
It should not be a deal breaker for someone merely reading.

>>718961529
there are enough verbs that have swing both ways anyway

>>718960014
cool thank you

>>718960014
>you can change around the word order much more freely than in many other languages
And that's a bad thing.

this ad is still up huh

>>718961163
the word れこ is an inversion of これ used to refer to sensitive topics like money or mistresses
i dont think any english dictionary makes mention of this slang

>>718961163
三日坊主 - Mikka Bouzu, lit. 3 Day Monk. someone who quits easily
Peeps tried to become Buddhist to evade taxes, but being a true monk is brutal. All you do it sit with bad posture and eat grass while rewriting the bible.
Most didn't even last 3 days.

Now go learn JP and don't be a bitch ass Mikka Bouzu

>>718961891
>jap-eng dictionary bad
quelle surprise!

>>718962213
not having every single term and phrase doesnt mean its bad lol

>>718961891
which doujin is this in?

>>718961163
98% of kanji can be used as first person pronouns.

>>718962460
i wouldnt know i dont play perv games

>>718962213
You can go to the Jitendex.org and add the entry if you want.

and why would i do that?

>>718961163
read the thread. plenty of guides and better material posted
>>718961219
>空を飛ぶ
>砂浜をを歩く
wow I had no idea that fly and walk are transitive verbs
>>718962213
J-E dictionaries are good for quick lookups, retard. don't write off something entirely just because it doesn't tell you everything

>>718957936
did you learn japanese by reading hentai?

>>718963603
>flying through the sky
>walking on the beach
Again, just because it uses another meaning of を changes nothing to a reader.

>>718963948
you didn't?

>>718963948
You definitely should

>>718914936 (OP)
nyo

so much mental illness in these threads

>>718914936 (OP)
How is this game for leaning grammar? I feel like that's my biggest stumbling block right now.

>>718971536
what are you struggling with? さえ? だけ? くらい? 毎日歯を[磨くようにしています]? 散歩[のついでに]果物を買いました? 水100㏄[に対して]砂糖5g入れます?

>>718915057
Considering he used sama one would assume its either
A) A joke
B) being overdramatic and maybe kinda cringe addressing yourself like an anime villain, again most likely as a joke

>>718915017
は flags topic of sentence
が marks doer/subject
を marks object done to
に target indirect object
と and

>>718919217
Just buy a 3ds
Jailbreak it
And download games in japanese
Its a fun way to learn

>>718972669
3ds doesnt have that many games worth playing and there are far cheaper consoles that can also be hacked like the ps2 and dsi
but yeah doing things in a language makes you improve ofc

>>718914936 (OP)
How do I play?

>>718925765
For a beginner you should play games with more gameplay as it will help you with context

Zelda OOT is a good choice

>>718936294
Was she before or after the annoying orange?

>>718972824
>gaist crusher god
>dragon quest games
>dqmj3 professional
>yo-kai watch 1, 2, 3
>inazuma eleven games
>bravely default and bravely second
>etrian odyssey games
>devil survivor 1 and 2
>smt iv apocalypse
>persona q 1 and 2
>digimon world re: digitize decode
>luigi's mansion 2
>kid icarus
>mario & luigi dream team
>multiple medarot games
>dai gyakuten saiban 1 and 2
plenty of games

If you don't enjoy reading in English, don't waste your time trying to learn Japanese. You learn and retain through reading. Also, games in general have some terrible writing.

>>718973368
i unironically dont want to play any of those games apart from luigis mansion 2 and kid icarus some day

>>718926843
Wrong
Learn to read first
Then start watching anime with japanese subtitles and try to follow the subtitles as you listen.
You can pick up new words just by doing this, your brains a pattern recognition machine unleash your inner schizo learn nip speak

>>718973384
There is a very high chance that you will enjoy games in Japanese more than you enjoyed them in English,

>>718973450
just do reading and anime with subs from day 1 and it will all work out eventually

>>718959075
Dont always need a wa
Ga can sometimes just be skipped if it can be considered context sensetive if it cant be considered context sensetive then you need to specify and use a ga

>>718926636
>Well you ruined my image of her.
Speak for yourself. I always assumed she was a troon, but if she's just a crazy feminist that's pretty based.

>>718973570
retarded and unnatural way of thinking about a language

>>718914936 (OP)
Scrolling through the thread and it looks like its made for 10yo's that are less proficient than N5, does it ever actually start teaching you stuff beyond that?

>>718973494
Yes, because you're getting neurotransmitter rewards and Eureaka! moments when things click for you and you make connections between grammar concepts. Everything also seems more poetic, like the descriptions of beaches, city streets, and cafes in an eroge, because you're seeing "new" symbols and attributing these raw and vivid visualizations to them. After that starts to wear off, you're just reading. It can still be cool, but again, if you don't like reading English, you're not going to magically start to like reading Japanese. I know, because I've lived it.

>>718960941
Deltarune has an option to just swap to jp text

>>718973450
No you should practice listening first. Listening lagging behind is way more of a pain in the ass than reading lagging behind. If you have to choose one, no reason not to do both

>>718973752
nta but for games reading is way more important

>>718973503
It takes 1 day to learns to read hiragana and katakana and simply spending that one day will make the rest of the process quicker as you wont be struggling trying to comprehend the symbols.

Plus simply having the text there if you can recognise the characters makes it so much easier to comprehend what was being said at the beginning. The more words you know tho the easier it gets to comprehend the other words you dont know too

>>718973707
See I don't know if I can agree with that. Especially on
>Also, games in general have some terrible writing.
Because if you can enjoy games in EN at all the JP is like crack.

>>718958609
>>718960169
The は particle indicates the topic of a sentence ("As for X, it is Y"), not necessarily the subject. Its primary purpose is to give context.
The が particle indicates the subject of a sentence ("X is Y")

>>718973984
thats just kana though and your kana ability will be shaky for far longer than a day be real

I have tried learning spanish, russian and japanese but i always drop it. How do you actually stay motivated and disciplined

Is this good?
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9987A659670D60E0

>>718973626
Think about it like a video game
You got a button for a context sensative action like jumping across a gap or climbing a ladder.
If you're stood infront of the ladder and its clearly what you're talking about to the guy will probably know. So ypu press your context sensative button and you climb the ladder or skip the word+ga

Another example from english
>Your friend slaps you
>what the fuck was that for
>what you talking about
>you know what the fuck im talking about
See context sensative in that he was clearly talking about the slap without specifically saying it.

>>718974226
i dont have to because i just naturally learned how they use them from input like how natives learn
in reality you are never going to have time to think about rules

>>718974107
Shakey maybe, you should be pretty good within a day tho, but it will massively help imo to comprehend what you are actually listening to in the very early stages.

>>718974143
Start having sex with native of desired language
Like actually, it feels great to hear cute girls say 'おお、上手!' and it pushes my brain to associate good 日本語 with pleasure

>>718974348
how does kana help listening?

>>718974425
Because you can match the sounds to characters which helps you compartmentalize what you're hearing

>>718974425
You put japanese subtitles on
As you hear the sound you see the subtitles and it helps differeniate similar sounds like す and つ
せ and ぜ
Etc right

When I first started I wasnt used to comprehending these sounds so id miss alot of it, the subtitles massively helped with that and using them together made it easier to comprhend even without the subs, your brain just hears it more clearly because you're used to those sounds going together and forming words.

>>718958096
Curedolly was a real woman who was in a lesbian spanking cult in the 80s

>>718974715
Nta but
Honestly less expected but way funnier.
A spanking cult.

>>718974515
>>718974671
ok i do get the point here actually and agree but its still kinda retarded because kana is the first thing people learn anyway

>>718974826
>kana is the first thing people learn anyway
Yeah, I do think thats the right way to do it.

>>718914952
While I get they dont want to get too advanced or in the weeds, they could at least explain that です is known as the copula (polite form). It's now a "politeness marker"

>>718975141
I think that's explained later when it goes into the different forms of words

Learning japanese is all about starting out thinking kanji are going to be really difficult, but then you start reading and realise kanji are cheat codes making it easier, and that actually it's the grammar that is fucking impossible. Especially when you find out conjugations stack on top of each other so you end up with shit like
>[verb] + らさせていただかなければならなかったのです(rasaseteitadakanakerebanaranakattanodesu)

Then you find out the way they phrase things is bafflingly stupid, and not only that but words that mean one thing in English mean something entirely different in Japanese.

Then you work out that they use words metaphorically all the time....

But those are nothing compared to the most infuriating thing in Japanese..... text written purely in Katakana.

>>718960135
horribly overcomplicated explanation, a more fitting one would be what >>718958508 posted

彁

>>718975524
Conjugations stacking is easy shit. There's consistency that's way better than other languages.

>>718975803
>(phantom kanji)
what the fuck does that mean

>>718975997
If you see it you're cursed and 八尺様 will appear in your window and XXX you.

>>718914936 (OP)
Japanese sounds bad when spoken by Americans.

>>718976069
Real answer
>彊」の誤りである可能性がある

This needs to be clarified, because assuming otherwise can be fatal and leads to all sorts of confusion.

PARTICLES
HAVE
MORE
THAN
ONE
MEANING

が isn't just [a]が[b] ("[a]-is-[b]"). It can also be used as "but" or "however", something that throws a wrench into what you just said.
As in
>I like the idea of scary moviesが、I'm squeamish
It can also be used for requests
>Excuse meが、could you reach that box for me?
In both examples, you could substitute "but" and see the similarity, but you couldn't use "however" in the second example. Similarly, you wouldn't use either of those words in English for [a]が[b] sentences.

は often has an element of "look at me for comparison" sense. It introduces topics into a sentence, and it allows for contrast. Johnは likes candyが、Maryは likes cake.
The difference between Iが eat pasta and Iは eat pasta is that the first sentence is simply a statement of a fact, no opinions, new information, it's just something happening. The second sentence introduces information, you're telling someone you'll be the one to eat pasta, or what you tend to eat, it's about you, not about what you're doing. There are times where you can use either は or が in the same place and either is fine. You could be clarifying simply by giving a factual statement, but it may be better to respond with は if that's what they're using when asking (ie. Johnは?), it shows that you're responding directly to them.

The famous line oreが Gundam (I am a Gundam) is a robotic, factual statement. It disassociates any sense of humanity, it doesn't refer to anyone else. He is a Gundam.

I just wish my OS/browser font for Japanese wasn't fucked, where I can't tell shit like 猫 & 描 apart without getting my face close to the damn screen.

>>718975997
>>718976151
It is the real name of God.

>>718926418
particles always act on what precedes them in japanese though. i think you may have learned something incorrectly.

>>718926418
>>718926625
>>718976769
are we talking quantum physics?

>>718914936 (OP)
Why bother learning japanese for videogames when literally every game released now is release simultaneously in english
MAYBE if you want some obscure PS2 games that aren't still translated?

reminder whenever you see long explanatory posts like >>718976242 its just a beginner typing it out trying to learn it himself

Are が and が different particles that happen to be homophones or are they the same particle english speakers treat as different things for sanity?

>>718976910
English translators bloat the script. In the long run you actually save time.

>>718977085
they added soul there unironically tho

>>718977203
japanese is such a dry fucking language

>>718977285
not really that specific game is just soulless generic slop

>>718975141
I'd explain desu more as "it is"
For example someone could say what time does X start and you could reply
3時 or 三時
San ji: three o clock

Or someone could say what time is it right now? And you could reply
3時ですor 三時です
San ji desu: it is three o clock

You could also say that its polite to add the it is for the first example even in english
It is more polite to say the extras
What time is X
Three o clock vs its at 3 o clock
So in a way you're right in that part of it

But imo the best way to translate desu is simply "it is"

>>718976997
A particle can simply have multiple functions, some of them related or extensions of a concept, like how some kanji can have multiple meanings. 分 can be a piece of some thing, a section, a part, or a literal unit of time as a minute. You understand the usage from context.

The grammatical phrase ~というわけではない is often used as "it's not that ~" (ie. it's not that I don't want to go to the concert), it's negation of the という thought expressed by ~, but it has a slightly more nuanced version that's "it's not necessarily that ~" (as in this may be a factor, but it's not the main thing). This is more of a softer, partial negation of the という thought expressed by ~.

>>718976953
Every beginner is made to believe that は and が is this impossible to understand struggle and difference. They're pigeon-holed into thinking they both have a single meaning.

>>718977525
vocaroo yourself speaking japanese

>>718915582
>Chinese and western loan words
Go to Japan soon brother. They use that shit all of the time.

>>718976910
Because even subtitles get meme subs

>>718915057
>he's never seen 俺様 before
Try passing N5 before lecturing others, faggit

>>718915582
Japanese is about 15 years away from just being English with an accent

>>718977614
Unless you're secretly a demon prince, you shouldn't be using 俺様. Not a good idea.

>>718977554
Back to /djt/ for you

>>718977751
you could just say you cant because youre bad
>>718977732
its a joke retard

>>718977782
I'm not N1 but I can get by in conversations in Japan with native speakers.

>>718976898
particles are tiny words that modify context or meaning. for example, "the noun," "a noun," "my noun," etc. all have different meanings, and that's accomplished by the little modifier word that precedes the word it relates to; those modifiers would (typically) be meaningless on their own. japanese does this a lot too but the order is reversed; the modifier word comes after. when we talk about particles in the context of japanese, we're talking about those modifier words.

>>718977887
lol

>>718977782
The reply was a joke. You're supposed double-down not break character.

>>718977085
yeah..*looks up 5 billion different kanji* one phone

>>718974143
You are complacent with what you have

>>718977887
That's basically N3 level, assuming your brain can process speech fast enough.

>>718978005
I passed N2 a while back but I've been slacking off

>>718978005
even n1 is a low bar for actual native conversations unless they dumb it down for you which they will

>>718978071
Better than my N4-halfway-to-N3 ass. Mostly is just the kanji grind and some better memorizing/practicing of verb conjugations.

i literally do one thing daily in duolingo
i know it's literally the worst way to learn japanese but i like seeing the daily streak number go up. i'm at 464 now.

>>718916126
知らねえつってんだろうが!!

>>718978129
There are actually worse ways.

>>718978129
Problem with Duolingo is its lessons fixating on something pointless for a whole unit, like fucking cat cafes. A shame it doesn't just have a mode for strictly focusing on kanji, since its system for recognizing strokes isn't terrible.

>>718977732
pretty sure this smug asshole (not a demon prince) says oresama too. I can't read moonroons but I do have ears

>>718922593
>MTT
Maji Towa Tenshi

>>718978283
wow, really? jesus. i just do it this way because i've tried more respectable ways in the past and my attention span didn't last.

>>718978098
The highest realistic threshold I would expect a foreigner to achieve is passing 準1級 of the 日本語検定. There's still the 1級, but these tests are meant for native Japanese speakers, and I've only ever heard of one foreigner passing 1級. There are other high thresholds you can aim towards, like 漢検1級, but you'd have to find something for each field to show that you excel in all matters and surpass even most Japanese.

i did anki for 2 weeks and then stopped

>>718978543
now repeat for 12 years

>>718978543
Because Anki turns into a job.

>>718978348
nta, oresama is a fairly self-important and arrogant way to refer to yourself. it's pretty common for bros, gangsters, bikers, etc. in anime/manga/vns to refer to themselves like that because it's caricaturizing. in fact, if you go down the list of male characters in majikoi, quite a few of them use ore. that's because everything in majikoi is exaggerated, it's designed to be over the top.

>>718978540
kanken past 2 is retarded because even the words that do show up in real life on kanken 1 and pre 1 are never things you need to write by hand from memory
and this guy who passed kanken 1 sounds like shit btw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRc9Lv05DuM

>>718978606
Preferably in longer intervals each time.

>>718922593
Electric car
Steam car
National steel
Powered-by-energy car
IDK
Parking lot

>>718978640
It's mostly a flex for a resume if you're going into something language-related.

>>718978739
i know but its hardly the highest level considering how unrelated it is to real japanese

>>718978619
>>718978640
What even requires a qualification like this for your native language?

>>718978885
Human trafficking

>>718978885
i mean as a foreigner passing kanken 2 means you can at least somewhat write by hand

>>718978885
i don't think you meant to quote my post

>>718937984
Dota 2

貴様何でんでよ!

>>718978606
what is this addon

>>718914936 (OP)
I told myself early on I would never learn romaji and I would never be taught the language by someone not Japanese. Its working pretty well so far

>>718980531
n6 mentality

>>718979901
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1771074083 but there are prob some newer/diff ones

>>718976910
I dont want to play the game in english. There is an inherent difference between a character speaking japanese and a character speaking english

>>718980572
thanks

>>718980617
theres virtually no difference between the two
even >>718977085 is practically saying the same thing

>>718980560
I began learning like 10 years ago and have played hundreds of games in japanese already. I'd say my methods worked out great

>>718980775
id say vocaroo or stfu

>>718980845
vocaroo myself playing dragon quest? What part of what I said was unbelievable

>>718980907
vocaroo >>718923992 or youre larping

>>718914936 (OP)
I love this game, big time love this game

>>718981002
>The kind of anon that spams 大好き in response to anything remotely interesting

>>718952179
Start by learning Hirigana and Katakana by using mnemonics.
Making your own is best, but you could use:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p9Il_j0zjc
Once you can read stuff, you can learn words, and sentences, and grammar, and all the rest of it.
Pokemon, and most gameboy games, only use Hirigana and Katakana.

>>718915017
が is for:
>emphasis
>nebulous things (math, god, language, ect.)
>more emphasis
>as a subject marker following a prepositional phrase that uses は

>>718981192
you forgot a conjunction

>>718922593
電車
列車
Help

I regret abandoning my reps years ago.

>>718981760
you were the true dkni

>>718980995
>40 min
he was larping

gonna need a vocaroo from >>718982142

inb4 you know the rules toromi

>>718914936 (OP)
I've been hardstuck as a per-intermediate for a while, but all that's going to change!
I'm gonna do it!
This image use to be illegible to me, and now I still can't read it, but I can't read it slightly better than I couldn't before.

>>718983769
That's the spirit, anon!

>>718983769
https://vocaroo.com/14IVtOAv7etl

>>718984097
nice voice

>>718984097
vocaroo god

>>718981760
All you had to do was do your reps, CJ.

>>718973448
ignore the atlus trash and play

>>718984097
I've been reading 実験場 as ば for years without noticing.

>>718986546
fair enough
場 is an annoying kanji

>>718987848
I did that when it came out. These days you should play gakumas instead.

>>718987848
>playing gatcha ever
yea no

>>718959172
It's fun, and you learn interesting new vocabulary to surprise your Japanese friends with.(笑)
<- お勧めの本

>>718987719
>場 is an annoying kanji
場 alone is fine, but with 所 it becomes a mess.
Extremely close in meaning and often extremely close in reading.
I have made my peace with them, but it was a long fight.

>>718959172
leave

>>718914936 (OP)
Can I skip the basics?

>>718959172
the more impactful, remarkable, and shocking, something is, the easier it is to remember
>>718974425
if you fail to catch something and read afterward, it will tune your ears. 50% of listening is knowing the words you're hearing and what they sound like, and anticipating what expressions, words, and structures a person might use. the more new stuff in a sentence, the harder it is to make out what's being said.
>>718975524
>muh runes
that's not the hardest part. that would be きっかり, くっきり, はっきり, さらさら, するする、すらっと, もぐもぐ, だらだら, ころころ, がらんと, がらがら, からから, てっきり, じっくり, ゆっくり, ぽっかり, がっかり, はっきり, ぼろぼろ, ぶるぶる, もたもた, ぐらぐら, ぐたぐた, どっしり, ちらっと, むずむず, ぐずぐず, てきぱき, etc. and a ton of other onomatopoeia and kana only words, because they're that much harder to remember without the runes. I won't deny that jukujikun are a bitch though (生憎, 所以, 所謂, 梅雨, 時雨, 紅葉(もみじ), 如何(いかが), 如何様(いかさま), 明日(あす, あした), etc.)

>>718989820
>that's not the hardest part. that would be きっかり...
i disagree honestly
most of them can be learned automatically just through input quite easily like how natives do it

>>718990016
冷却 is easy to identify. it has 冷やす so it means cold, and 却 is used uh... in 売却 and 返却 or something.
ズラリ is uh... what the fuck was it, (read notes) oh right used in 本が並んズラリとでいる. wait why the fuck use ズラリと, we don't use that here as words like that don't exist in my language. "don't daradara?" that shit sounds like baby talk, the fuck does that mean?
they don't map 1:1 to a word you know, so they're hard to make out and you forget to even use them

>>718990345
>ズラリとでいる
ずらりと並んでいる. don't know what the fuck happened there

bump

I've been learning how to recognize onomatopoeia from manga
It's fun researching what the sounds mean and memorizing the symbols

i dont want to learn japanese, i want to learn osakaben

>>718954390
>>718953845
cure dolly the character and cure dolly the person are both biological lesbian women who were in a lesbian cult in the 80s

i bring shame on my family

>>718995087
https://sudoku.com/

>>718995087
>A and B
great grades anon. congratulations

>>718995087
>failing N3
Not only is it pathetic that you took N3, but to take it and fail? That's unreal.

>>718995087
absolute yikes lol

>>718997542
not him. currently preparing for n2. I still can't wrap my mind around many topics, like ~ことから. it seems stupid to consider this a grammar point of its own given that it's just [something]こと+から. I can't picture where to use it either. means something like "judging by the fact that" but whenever I use it it doesn't feel right
jlptに出ることからやっぱり勉強しなきゃねと仕方なく認めざるを得ない

>>718998076
>about many topics
meant can't wrap my mind around n3 grammar topics.
sure, I can pick the right expression on a multiple choice test, but I can't pick between similar expressions when using the language

>>718998076
I've never done JLPT study because I'm not retarded, but grammar is literally just a case of reading more.

>somehow proficient enough to listen to jap streams and understand 70% of their bullshit
>still can't read past the first sentence because double kanji words fuck me up
I think it's owari da for me bros, I'm not making it

>>718914952
>desu

I am a Cure Dolly loyalist, will this game teach me the basis of japanese in the proper way, or will it fill my head with weird clunky structures which will destroy my understanding of japanese in the long run?

>>718998405
This game seems to teach you barely anything. The dialogue is very much awful textbook sentences though.

>>718998176
ok then, how do you discern between
>のみならず
>だけでなく
>ばかりか
english equivalent: difference between
>tell me if she's ok
>tell me whether she's ok
the former is ambiguous and can be interpreted as "if she's ok, then tell me," the latter can't

>>718995720
>>718996073
>>718997542
>>718997639
if i'm being real i don't mind it at all, pretty good result for like a year and change of studying

>>718998909
I don't think you even know English.

>>718998909
They're synonym phrases, but ばかりか has more of a "let alone" feel to it. You can tell the intended nuance (or lack thereof) of each from their wording.

>>718914936 (OP)
I tried demo a while ago and it was bad. Like really really bad. Duolingo + Anki is significantly better. I get the idea of gamifying learning but the implementation should not suck. Shashingo is a pretty good game about learning Japanese although it's really limited, but at least it's decently made. What are some games about learning Japanese you can recommend that aren't trash?

>>718998209
i doubt you understand much of what you hear

>>718999283
There aren't any, edutainment games are universally near worthless.

As has been said a million times in this thread and others, just play a game you're interested in in Japanese. There are tons of easy games out there, and tons of intermediate ones you can struggle through as your first game if you want.

>>718989820
>生憎, 所以, 所謂, 梅雨, 時雨, 紅葉(もみじ), 如何(いかが), 如何様(いかさま), 明日(あす, あした), etc.
For some reason I don't have trouble with these at all but the onomatopoeia words fuck me up so bad, they just never stick. I'll go through a period of getting them straight in my head, they'll disappear from my reviews for a while, and then the next time I see them I'll have gotten them mixed up again.