Thread 719044919

I've always been curious how the original Mega Man Zero would have turned out had it went with the idea of it being a sequel to the bad ending of X5. Had the Zero series just been a single game built around playing as Zero to stop X, how would /v/ want it to be set up? Just for the sake of there being more options for content, lets say it were given a home console release rather than it being a portable title.

*Hadoukens you*

>>719044919 (OP)

Hand holding mechanic with Robo Ciel. In all seriousness though make the game effectively a Maverick simulator. You can either play as a “hero” to protect the resistance and to minimize damage to Neo Arcadia or go for a “Zero” path where you are actively destroying Neo Arcadia to kill X, the rest of the world be damned.

>>719045839
Shadow the Hedgehog?

>>719044919 (OP)
You know
The original concept is pretty cool and intense. I probably would have enjoyed that rivalry and the much darker direction they were going.
But I think I've come to realize I really like the idea of Cyber Elf X and Copy X.
It allows the dynamic between X and Zero as friends to stay intact, and then you get to fight his dark Copy + his four guardians which seem to be parts of his personality.
This becomes a really interesting way of examining their friendship, by way of this dark reflection of X's real personality, while still having them be friends in the end.

Idk. Zero is never a hero to me as much as X is, he's sort of a wild card, and X as Cyber Elf X sort of becomes his guardian angel/conscience.

tl;dr It could have been cool, but I frankly kinda like what we got

>>719046198

Personally I read it more like how Dishonored 1 did its morality system. Being able to turn Zero into how he was in the end of X5 if you did an evil path sounds like it could be fun. Could have different endings depending on how far you went for being a hero vs being just a murderbot. Maybe even have endings where even after Zero defeats X, he ends up unintentionally creating a new generation of recently awakened Mavericks serving him, just as they did for Sigma a Century prior.

Shit. With all that said >>719046526
There is this though...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnkbJ-H4r5k

>>719046526

Always felt bad for Copy X Mark I.

Fuck. Sorry to keep replying to myself. But for context >>719046657
The Protomen music project was a rock opera retelling of Mega Man.
Not gonna get too much into the setup, but it's this whole dystopian drama. Great storytelling desu.

But this song is about Mega Man going to fight an army of Wily's robots, and he finds them led by Protoman, his brother, who Dr. Light had told him had been killed.
Protoman is basically defeatist about the state of humanity under Wily.
Dr. Wily is running a police state, and Protoman has decided to help Wily, basically, in my understanding of the story that The Protomen are telling, in order to make mankind suffer so that they'll revolt against Wily and regain their freedom/free will, outside of Wily's control.

So Mega Man is showing up to fight Wily's army of robots and he finds Protoman.
Protoman basically tells him "humans are shit. they don't believe in anything they're not going to fight for themselves or any ideals, and if you die defending them, they'll just worship you as a martyr and submit to oppression again"
>there are no heroes left in man

So you could do that.
Instead of Wily with a police state and Protoman championing it to force humanity to human again, Zero could be leading a Maverick rebellion against a police state for the same motives, and X could be it's chief Cop/defender.
And then they could have this same dark brotherhood/rivalry showdown.

>>719046526
I think Copy X is a more interesting concept than "X gone bad" because it actually takes advantage of the fact that the main characters are robots. It says more about the setting.
Like, for as much as humanity looked up to X, the heads of Neo Arcadia still believed he was just a thing that could be replicated in a lab. And the people didn't even notice a change because hey, fuck reploids, they're supposed to be our servants anyway.

>>719047813
>he heads of Neo Arcadia still believed he was just a thing that could be replicated in a lab. And the people didn't even notice a change because hey, fuck reploids, they're supposed to be our servants anyway.
You know that's a good point
Fuck, I love Mega Man dude

>>719044919 (OP)
The only way I can see X's villain turn working for me would be to extend out the timeline to 500ish years
(I think x -> zero was supposed to be 100?) that gives enough time for X to descend not in to outright villainy but just apathy, he'd been protecting humanity for half a millennia there's no way he was ever designed to last that long and has just become numb to it all. After that I think the rest more or less fits, Zero wakes up and is disgusted by how callous X he is, X starts to lose it Zero returning made him reflect on what he has become but can't reconcile it which puts them on the path to inevitable conflict

>>719048283
You could just do an alt-timeline desu

>>719044919 (OP)
Megaman Zero was never going to follow the bad ending of X5. Megaman Zero was in development before X5 was even finalized, let alone being built on top of that narratively. People give X6 a lot of shit but it's the only game that bridges X to the Zero series in a way that makes sense. X being a villain is absolutely retarded and I'm glad Conman stopped that shit before Inticreates went with that retarded idea because it would've bombed harder than the series had already done with the finished product.

i just want an elf war game and i'm surprised there aren't any fangames about it

>>719048758
Because it's a dumb thing to center an entire game around. If you want to know what an elf wars game would be like then boot up Zero 2 on a new save files and at the beginning of the level, just mindlessly slash at the pantheons that keep spawning.

>>719044919 (OP)
X goes so hard here, him with hair is crazy
Not that I mind twink X either

>>719049538
where is this from?

In non-gay world, we'd have both series and anyone could pick the one they like most. Too bad small indie company Capcom can't afford to make a 2D platformer.
Anyway
>>719044919 (OP)
That Ciel looks alot like Levi. I wonder if Levi's horniness is remnant of her being Zero's Roll.

>>719052046
Leviathan isn't horny nor is Zero "Roll".

>>719052437
>Leviathan isn't horny

>>719052437
Zero might have been Roll early in development of MMX according to some devs, but Levi is definitely horny

>>719053013
>fanart
>>719053083
They toyed with the idea, they didn't go through with it.

anybody got the scans for the megaman timelines zero? I heard they made errors in fenrir and harpuia's names and made leviathan float on a bubble, not something else.

>>719053305
I got this.

Do you all prefer Zero with Iris or with Ciel?

>>719053182
NTA, but Levi is definitely horny for Zero in-game.
In fact so are all the Guardians

what is up with that Ciel?

>>719053469
Which do you prefer desu?

they should just make a Megaman game where we can play as the four guardians during the Elf Wars.

>>719053470
Yeah, everybody wants to fuck your self insert. Please spare me.

>>719053512
She was probably gonna be a Reploid at first, if I had to guess.

>>719053562
The Four Guardians didn't exist until after the Elf Wars.

>>719047813
>>719047963
My own head canon has always been that the thing that gives X true consiouncess and complete free will, is that the programming for it is adapted/an upload of the original Mega Man's own artificial intelligence that somehow developed its own form of independence that went beyond what Light thought was possible in robots. This is why all of the other Reploids and Copy X fail, they lack that "spark" of a consiouncess in them.

>>719044919 (OP)
X looks like he had a bad fucking day holy shit

>>719053469
I prefer him with his canonical love interest.

>>719053567
I didn't write the game.

>>719053706
Neither did I. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2Og3g43qgU

>>719051328
Source: my ass

>>719053868
You do not understand horny.

>>719047052
>Get made as a copy of a legendary war hero, but without the rigorous testing to ensure he doesn't go off the deep end
>Can't do anything without getting compared to the real X unfavourably because he's just a naive child in comparison
>Gets rebuilt by Weil as a buggy mess
>Blows himself up because of Weil and also his inferiority complex regarding X
It is pretty sad though he's so up his own arse about his own divinity and righteousness that it makes it harder to sympathise. He literally takes the form of an angel, then seraphim. Anyway Ciel you should have done more testing.

>>719054052
>Y-yeah dude she totally wants me
lol okay.

>>719054163
You're the kind of shitposter who says "it's not gay if the balls don't touch"

>>719054432
And you're the kind of shitposter that gets proven wrong and just doubles down relentlessly.

>>719053582
i meant the comic

>>719054071

Personally I have always considered Copy X Mark I and Mark II as separate characters. There was never any indication at any point during his reign that CX Mark 1 ever harmed a single human, even going as far as to ensure Ciel was not fired upon by the Pantheons at the start of Zero 1. He was built to replace Neo Arcadia's God King right as an energy crisis had hit and he was forced to make a terrible, yet pragmatically sound decision to ensure humanity did not suffer. Mark 2 from the get-go was always just a spiteful puppet of Weil's that was more than happy to murder humans at his masters behest. (Omega Missile)

What baffles me is that if Cyber Elf X could manifest himself before others, why not do so for the original Copy X to tell him to cut his bullshit out? Instead he ends up just popping up to the Resistance and making it clear he wants his clone dead with "extreme prejudice". I get that he is tired of all the conflict, especially with someone wearing his face, but I can't imagine CX Mark 1 was completely irredeemable. Frankly the best case scenario would have been Ciel and Neo Arcadia working together to get the Ciel System out sooner.

>>719054490
You've got that prepubescent mindset.

>>719054696
lol okay.

>>719054071
The testing wasn't the issue. In reality, there was nothing wrong with Copy-X's circuitry and software. It's just that he was placed in a position of absolute power with zero life experience.

People seem to believe that the 30-year diagnostics test was designed to fix personality flaws, but it seems insanely unlikely that this was what it did. That would imply that Dr. Light created a program designed to locate and correct personality issues, which is not only highly unreasonable, but also actively goes against the entire purpose of creating a robot with free will. It's more that Reploids have a tendency to go insane due to hardware/software errors, so most likely, the purpose of the diagnostics test was to ensure that X didn't go insane from some error.

A diagnostics test wouldn't have really solved Copy-X's issue. He was a naive ruler who chased naive solutions, a child placed in the position of a god.

>>719055110
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsuUHbjXA7Q

>>719044919 (OP)
arm mounted buster instead of the transforming canon is weird af

>>719055403
I've also always seen Copy X as exactly what he said: a perfect recreation of X. Ciel was the first person since Light and Wily to understand X's blueprints.
IMO the 30 year (become ~100 year) diagnostic tests can be equated to school. Dr. Light wanted X to have free will, yes, but he didn't want to do that for the sake of it. Dr. Light saw X as a son, and he wanted his son to grow up into a respectable adult. So he put his son through a bunch of philosophy and morality courses so X would be ready to handle the world he'd wake up in. Going through all of that probably would've helped Copy X handle his situation better, but Neo Arcadia obviously didn't want to wait that long.

>>719054640
I think the Zero series would have made more sense if you couldn't see cyber elves normally. If it was something like X only appearing in Zero's dreams, a lot of the stuff in Z1 would have flowed better.
I also think it'd be in character for X to be vague about his identity to Zero because he's aware that Zero is amnesiac and has identity issues. I think it'd be nice if between Ciel and the Resistance seeing Zero as their hero and Neo Arcadia seeing Zero as a dangerous Maverick, X saw him as just Zero and didn't want to push him into a role.
But then, I also think if the Zero series had an actual plot instead of being rewritten as it went, there absolutely should've been a moment where Zero uses X as an elf ability and gets the ability to charge his saber and his equivalent of the variable weapons system *the z-knuckle). There's so much stuff in the Zero series that with some quick rewrites could flow so nicely.

>>719047052
There was exactly one way for Copy X to not have turned out terribly: if he never existed at all because the real X never abdicated his position. But at the same time, after ~200 years of bullshit I can't REALLY fault X for being done with everything and taking the first vaguely justifiable out he could. One man should not be responsible for everything for so long.

The whole situation in Neo Arcadia by the start of Z1 is fucked beyond repair, and I like how nobody is totally in the wrong about it.

>>719058885
>can be equated to school
I doubt that's what was happening. If Dr. Light had the time to program thirty years worth of simulations for X to go through, then he wouldn't have had to wait thirty years for him to wake up either. Any premise that involves the diagnostics test being anything OTHER than a diagnostics test is completely illogical.

Remember, the majority of Maverick outbreaks prior to Sigma going nuts were caused by hardware failures.

>>719059703
He didn't even want to be god-emperor of Neo Arcadia. He was just "elected" into the position due to his popularity and he just couldn't say no.

>>719047052
not
>X years later
missed opportunity

>>719047052
>>719054071
wasn't copy x going to be the real X originally?
so all these arguments are kinda stupid and pointless

>>719060048
Supposedly, he was a spare body made for the original X to inhabit. Problem is, X never returned. And because Neo Arcadia was unwilling to carry on without X's leadership, they chose to implant an AI into that copy and follow it instead. Copy-X wasn't even a puppet emperor, he had absolute power over the place. Neo Arcadia had become so utterly reliant on X's leadership that rather than try and stand on their own two feet, they decided to follow a farce that looked like him. It's really pathetic.

>>719053562
>>719053625
They should make a game where it turns out Master Albert told Wily to do evil things and made Zero go crazy when he fought Sigma and made Sigma evil and told Weil to go sicko mode on all reploids and made Copy X an asshole and personally made sure Weil came back and rigged Ragnarok to explode so Zero would die and personally programmed Juno and is the one who convinced Sera to wipe out the carbons, I think that would be a really cool idea for a game if it was revealed that Master Albert was responsible for everything. Except Axl, I think the two should have no relation and it should never be explained why Master Albert's personal Biometal looks like Axl and has all the same abilities and weapons.

>>719060021
Amusing on two levels

>>719053682
IT WAS ONLY A KISS

IT WAS ONLY A KISS

>>719058885
>>719059885
Why not both

>>719060207
I mean in the game's development he was going to be the actual X before they pussied out to not offend old fans, not muh lore

>>719060207
>Neo Arcadia had become so utterly reliant on X's leadership
That only really works in Z1 as a standalone game, with the expanded lore there were like a hundred years between the end of the Elf Wars and Ciel creating Copy X.

>>719060407
Because like I said, it's illogical for Dr. Light to have the time to program 30 years of simulations in order to "correct" X's personality. Anything that isn't just a diagnostics test doesn't make any sense and would require Light to have time that he plainly didn't have.

>>719059885
He wouldn't need to write 30 years worth of distinct problems, that's a stupid way to program. He just needs to write a weaker AI that consults a pool of ethical problems and creates new ones based on X's own results. The whole point of philosophy courses anyways is that there's no right answer, all you need to do is consider problems and decide what you think is right.

>>719053682
Ciel... Lost...

>>719060565
There's not really anything wrong with schooling your kid especially when he has fuck you for a hand

>>719060606
There's no reason for something like that to exist. X was the first of his kind. And personally, I don't understand why people are so insanely attached to this idea in the first place. Why do you want so badly for X to be put through a bunch of simulations during his 30 year diagnostics test? It's completely asinine.

>>719060681
Do you also think there's no reason kids should go to school?

>>719060658
Doesn't matter if it's wrong or not. Light was on death's door when he finished X, he would not have been able to create anything like that. Imagine the scenario:

>"Finally, near the end of my life, I have completed my life's work. Even though I'm probably gonna die within the next year or so, I'll still devote even more time to creating a simulation program to make sure X is a good, Christian boy."

>>719060707
if you haven't caught on to the fact that this thread is filled with literal autists who read too far into the excuse plots of these games you might be autistic yourself

>>719060681
>Dr. Light probably did this
>no he didn't, that's impossible
>What if he did it like so?
>okay it's possible but it's dumb (because I don't like it) so he didn't
Thrilling conversation.

Currently replaying ZX, and MAN the map system is way worse than I remembered

>>719060991
The map is honestly the worst part of the game. ZX Advent is much worse in all regards.

>>719060681
>It's completely asinine.
It's a game about robot wizards for kids.

>>719060749
>"Finally, near the end of my life, I have completed my life's work. Even though I'm probably gonna die within the next year or so, I'll still devote even more time to creating a simulation program to make sure X is a good, Christian boy."
What am I supposed to find objectionable about this? Light is an incel and X was his most important creation.

>>719061132
Even then, there's no reason to believe it. The diagnostics report at the beginning of MMX only says exactly that, that it's a diagnostics test. Any other interpretation is adding in extra headcanon.

>>719053469
Alouette.

>>719061190
>there's no reason to believe it.
For you I guess

Is the Dr. Light that be inside the capsules that X use to get his armor parts from a program or Dr. Light's mind transform in A.I.?

>>719061056
Whaaaat? ZXA is so much better.
The only thing that drags it down are the cutscenes/dub/story being a little wonky

>>719062027
he's astral projecting from hell

>>719061881
Do ZX's Guardians do a single useful thing at all throughout the game besides tell you where to go so you can do their job?

>>719044919 (OP)
I'd want it to have good character designs instead of the diaper shotas it went with.

>>719062960
Name five hundred thousand things wrong with diaper shotas or you're wrong.

>>719062930
In ZX Advent they give you a lift to Ouroboros

X going evil never made any sense since he underwent a million years of ethics testing. He'd more sooner just an hero than let himself become a dictator. Capcom was right to shut down Inafune's bullshit.

>>719044919 (OP)
I lile long hair X.

>>719060749
>"Finally, near the end of my life, I have completed my life's work. Even though I'm probably gonna die within the next year or so, I'll still devote even more time to creating A GORILLION ARMOR PARTS
no shit retard

>>719062960
As opposed to the diaper shotas of generations past?

>>719061881
I never noticed how stacked she was

>>719063195
Its gay

>>719060707
So you agree with the English version of 8 where Mega Man evolves to the point he can violate the first law of robotics in order to protect his loved ones and the world?

What Hero compares?

>>719067447
That's not a hero. That's a color swapped bad guy. Zero is notorious for having several.

zero was so gay. his homosexuality, his blonde hair, being a japanese sword guy

>>719067536
Shhhhh. Shush. U kno wat I mean

>>719067584
Let me be really blunt.
Associating blond hair with homosexuality comes off as slightly racist / like it comes from people who have unresolved homo feelings towards guys with blond hair.
Like guys with blond hair aren't necessarily gay, and if you associate it with "gayness" by default, it kinda comes off like wishing blond guys were gay...

It's kind of a shame that Zero never had a definitive design. X's the closest but it's brought down by the glass tits, MMZ's is too gay and EXE looks good but it's not actually him.

>>719067934
Z Zero is his definitive design desu

>>719044919 (OP)
I think making X a villain would have been retarded. I think the plot we ended up getting was retarded. The new designs suck

>>719070010
Tell us how you really feel

>>719070318
I think the Zero series sucks!

>>719044919 (OP)
I wouldn't care because I'd finally get to play Roll/Ciel as the cyber elf wizard she was always meant to be in that case. the story could be anything.

>>719070378
Grrrrr that makes me so myad!

>>719059885
you are arguing against canon

All of X is a simulation, he has never left the capsule. How else do you explain all the armor capsules in each game? It's a ridiculous amount. Not only that, they give him a specific set. It's an impossible coincidence.

>>719071205
youre a bad person anon

>>719072339
Sir, you dropped your opinion

>>719064563
Wasn't it the AI that created that? It had years to create parts for X.

>>719064959
>GET EQUIPPED WITH
>the glowing pixels of shitty mecha design

>>719065848
Did you mean 7

>>719064563
Don't forget he also hid them around several areas that wouldn't exist for years lmao. But yeah, let's keep arguing about the logic of cartoon robot people in games for kids.