Thread 719083807

>Only 1 attacks, charge attack, sprint attack
kek, it could never be good

>>719083807 (OP)
the dungeons are good. explain why they aren't good. you can't.

What is with people shitting on classic games? You have to view them in the context of when they came out not current year. Compare LTTP to other games from around the same time.

Dungeons in Zelda had never been good except for Skyward Sword.

>>719083894
More attack options then the original NES game.

>>719083931
>You have to view them in the context of when they came out not current year.
They should be timeless. If you have to view them the year they came out then they're outdated.

>>719083931
it's shitty, lazy bait that they think is effective in getting people riled up (it doesn't except maybe the severely autistic)

>>719084023
Then there's no such thing as timelessness then.

>>719083931
I got my SNES with this and fucking Alien Wars when it was current. I played this shit out of this game as a kid, totally mind-blowing and went back to it, and it's boring as fuck and just way too goddamn easy. It's still an impressive accomplishment for the time, but I'd rather play just about anything else, even a decent new game.

>>719083901
most of the them are too brief and simplistic, the game is definitely quantity over quality, they didn't need 11 dungeons and the entire beginning section in general

>>719084116
Some games are. Alttp just isn't one of them.

>>719084116
You're right when talking about technologically driven media. Is Citizen Kane you favorite movie? No? A bunch of old boomers think that it's the goat.

>>719084286
Thats fine but as you said it was mind-blowing when it came out compared to other games at the time.

>>719084437
I'm not the OP, I just think it's pretty bleh. But yeah, I can still appreciate it as a museum piece.

>>719084345
>there are too many dungeons
>also the game is too short
so which of your arguments do you actually want to make

>>719083894
You can fire lasers too

Do you not like to see a series evolve over time? Is it not interesting to you to say play zelda 1 and lttp and then play OOT and botw to see how the series has changed over the years?

>>719084679
I never said anything about the game's length? Read more thoroughly next time

Quality of the games is directly tied to number of dungeons.

Would've been a 10/10 if the entire game had more than 8 music tracks , some iconic yes but the dark world dungeon music is genuine ass

>>719084883
So Majora's Mask is the best?

>>719083807 (OP)
the dungeons are the best part of the game though

>>719085013
this is really the only actual flaw with ALTTP, otherwise it's basically a timeless 10/10 masterpiece. It has some great tracks, but not nearly enough variety for a 6-10 hour game especially when just a few tracks are used for 75% of the runtime

>>719084345
I don't think they're simplistic, they just follow a predetermined formula. you find the map, then the compass, and then the big key, after which you find the special key item that you'll use against the boss. it's the classic zelda formula that has been used in every game between LTTP and skyward sword. if you don't like that formula, well then I can understand that I suppose. however it's not bad per se, it's just predictable. personally I can see how the old and the new could be fused into something better; have an open world like breath of the wild but with dungeons that you need to be prepared for in order to enter and complete, and only by exploring the world will your arsenal grow and thus allow you to enter and complete said dungeons.

as for LTTP's puzzles, they're good enough for what they are. each major dungeon has a gimmick and you have to deal with it to progress. some are better than others but I think the quality stays consistent throughout, with only a few items ending up very limited in their use.

Yeah I liked super Mario world and Kirby all stars way more.

OoT legitimately still holds up and IS the best game ever made.

>>719083894
this, it's 1/10 at best

>>719085208
>game creates formula
>a dozen games after it all just copy this formula
>blame the original because you played the later ones first
And this is a gross simplification anyways. It's like complaining that in Mario "you run to the right, jump over pits, and reach a flagpole"

ALTTP's dungeons were primarily combat and hazard gauntlets, the puzzle elements are pretty light, with most of the puzzle just being able to mentally map out the dungeon and how it links together.

>>719084746
literally the same as normal attack

>>719085702
nah

>>719083931
ALTTP is still great. I played it for the first time last year and it was one of my favorite games of all time and my favorite Zelda. It's by far the best game on the SNES, and I've played almost all the usual classics and hidden gems on the system.

>>719085735
Yeah, it is. It just shoots a shitty low damage troon sparkle.

ALttP still makes OoTbabbies seethe to this day

>ALttP: timeless 2D artstyle that aged like wine
>OoT: ugly early 3D abomination with muddy textures

>ALttP: smooth, tight, precise, responsive 60fps
>OoT: runs at 15fps, extremely sluggish and laggy

>ALttP: dense overworld full of secrets
>OoT: empty overworld full of wasted space just to hold stick forward through

>ALttP: can see entire room at a glance so puzzles require unique ways of interacting with the environment and thinking outside the box
>OoT: entering first person and looking at a wall is considered a """puzzle"""

>ALttP: starts you right in the action, can approach dungeons in your own order at your own pace with little bogging you down.
>OoT: constant cutscenes, constant exposition dumps, game treats you like a retard with tutorial every two minutes

>ALttP: combat is fast-paced and challenging with a huge variety of enemies and hazards. Spacing and positioning and learning enemies movesets are important
>OoT: Z-targeting removes any challenge of spacing and positioning and makes the combat just a glorified rhythm game. Every combat encounter just involves circling around the enemy, waiting for them to be open to attack, and repeat. It's just a boring, drawn-out slog

>ALttP: dungeons are complex and labyrinthine and require you to create a mental map and learn how rooms are connected
>OoT: dungeons are largely linear on-rails where you just solve the """puzzle""" by entering first person and looking around the room or jumping on some platforms

>ALttP: bosses are challenging and memorable requiring unique methods to dispatch them that you must figure out
>OoT: booses are pushovers that are just a glorified tutorial for the item you conveniently just found in that dungeon

>>719085869
>>ALttP: can see entire room at a glance so puzzles require unique ways of interacting with the environment and thinking outside the box
kek, remove this. the puzzles are literally for retarded people in both games.
>ALttP: combat is fast-paced and challenging with a huge variety of enemies and hazards. Spacing and positioning and learning enemies movesets are important
kek, sword spam kills all enemies in 2 seconds. the game is one of the easiest ever made
>ALttP: dungeons are complex and labyrinthine and require you to create a mental map and learn how rooms are connected
KEK
never played Cuckerina of time, never will, but get a grip

>>719086074
>the game is one of the easiest ever made
it's about as hard as Zelda 1, and is much closer to NES difficulty level than SNES difficulty.

>>719086074
>zoomermutt plays through game on emulator and spams rewind and save states and ruins the entire experience and thinks the game is easy
many such cases

>>719083807 (OP)
>Acting as if this isn't a 10/10 moment in gaming

>>719086256
this is a troll, the game is nowhere near NES difficulty

>>719083807 (OP)
Yah best part of the game is how well-designed the overworld is.

>>719085152
You can tell that they learned their lesson when the next game after this , Links Awakening had unique music for every 3 rooms you go past , like shit was insanely varied for a game boy game

>It's been 34 years and they still haven't made a remake of alttp
What the fuck is wrong with this company STOP FUCKING AROUND AND MAKE IT ALREADY AONUMA

>>719086647
The difference here is I actually play and beat NES games on original hardware. Zelda 1 is not as difficult as something like Ghosts N Goblins or Battletoads, but it's definitely easier than something like Mega Man, Shatterhand, Castlevania, Kirby's Adventure, Contra, or even Ninja Gaiden (which only has one big difficulty spike that is trivialized with magic).

Zelda 1 and ALTTP are pretty even in difficulty, Zelda 1 has a huge spike with the wizzrobe dungeon that is harder than anything in ALTTP, but ALTTP is more consistently difficult, and the last dungeons in particular are quite the gauntlets.

I think being able to do dungeons in any order doesn't help the game much, if dungeons were ordered they could build puzzles that get progressively more and more complex due to being able to utilize every item the player has, right now it's mostly walking through the dungeon and thinking where can you stick your big (or small) key next instead of solving a puzzle

>>719085208
>special key item that you'll use against the boss
There is literally only 1 boss where it's 100% required to use the dungeon item(hookshot in swamp). the bow is effectively required for the first boss since the sword does such pitiful damage but that's still only 2/11. Fire rod is useful against the moth but not required, and bombs are way better against helmasaur than the hammer. none of the other items even do anything against their respective bosses.

something about this game just feels like a chore to play. im not sure what it is but i just never really feel like playing it

>>719083807 (OP)
I think it has too many obtuse means of progression. Zelda is the lord of context-sensitive bs. ALttP is not as bad as Link's Awakening, but it's still annoying. I think it's the ice rod that's just hidden away behind just another bombable wall in the overworld, right?

>>719088508
the dungeons do get more complex as the game goes on... pretty steadily up until the final dungeon that is a massively challenging boss rush gauntlet.

The difficulty of dungeons is more in enemy and hazard gauntlets and learning the layout of the dungeon and how rooms link together. None of the puzzles are particularly difficult, but enemies respawning while hearts don't means you need to optimize your route through the dungeon or you will quickly get whittled down.

>right now it's mostly walking through the dungeon and thinking where can you stick your big (or small) key next
that is literally a puzzle..

>>719088516
ok well then it's more accurate to say that the special item you get is more effective against the boss in most cases and is more often than not required to even reach the end of the dungeon. if it's not used directly against the boss then it's used to complete puzzles and generally access previous gatekept areas of the dungeon in which it's found.

>>719085869
>can approach dungeons in your own order at your own pace with little bogging you down.
not really

>>719083807 (OP)
LttP has good dungeon design, I particularity like the Skull Woods having you enter and re-enter the dungeon in different spots via the overworld to navigate it. I can't think of another Zelda dungeon like that outside of BotW/TotK's Hyrule Castle but it functions differently.

>>719083894
You don't need more than one face button for good combat, and LttP gives you tons of items for alternative offensive options.

>>719088671
You have to remember that you are supposed to read the manual before playing the game, they also even included pic related that covers vast majority of situations where players get stuck.

Aside from that, they even have a helpline, plus you would talk to friends about the game (or use message boards if playing it after the fact). That's just how games of the era were, a product of its time, but ALTTP gave players a lot of tools to succeed.

>>719083931
fuck that compare them straight, lttp is better than breath of the shit

>>719084345
Only the first three LTTP dungeons are short, and of course they're fucking short.

>>719088739
Yes really. LttP is a non-linear game where the only forced order of progression is getting completing Eastern Palace to get the Shoes and getting the Hammer from the Dark Palace to get access the rest of the Dark World (which you don't even to complete, as webm related.

>>719085869
At least we can agree both are good. Why split hairs when the new games are windows xp background banjo kazooie lgbt toddler toys with no dungeons

If all zoomoids on 4chan disappeared tomorrow, not only would 4chan be a better place but the entire world would be.

>>719089162
lmao wtf is that romhack

Also I always thought that was how you kill that boss anyways, especially since they place an emphasis on bomb throwing in that dungeon

>>719088727
>ok well then it's more accurate to say that the special item you get is more effective against the boss in most cases
7/11 items can't even be used in the fights. even if you count the armor upgrades as "more effective against the boss" it's 50/50
>more often than not required to even reach the end of the dungeon
technically true since there's an odd number of dungeons but still as close to a 50/50 split as you can get

>>719089213
this but all nonwhites

>>719084345
>Guys, Ganon's Castle is too brief and simplistic!
>I don't need anything to beat it, all the enemies are soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo easy, it takes, like, 50 seconds to get to the top, everything is suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuper obvious, and
Shut up.
Trolling is a banworthy offense outside of /b/.

>>719088727
One part of what makes A Link to the Past so good is that there are so many fucking items that stuff like the Ice Rod is miss-able and can be found just from exploring. You get rewarded from doing everything in the game.

>>719086256
>about as hard as Zelda 1
Nigger why did you think you could tell such a blatant lie and get away with it?

Reminder that Egoraptor is a retard who couldnt even make it 2/3 of the way through Castlevania IV because it was too hard for him, despite constantly talking about how easy the game was in his retarded sequelitis video. You can safely ignore anyone who parrots his opinions.

That being said, both OoT and LttP are timeless classics.

>>719089370
whaaaaat you can reward exploration without copypasting the same puzzle 1000 times in an empty field woooaaaahh *smokes vape blunt* boomers are wild for this

>>719089270
I'm sure there is significant overlap.

>>719089162
You're generally right but there's a bit more linearity. You need the titan's mitt from 4 to access 5 and you need the fire rod from 3 to beat 5 and 7. You also need the rod from 6 to access 7. I think you also need the hook shot to reach the right half of death mountain where 7 is.

>>719089501
Nah, LttP is a masterpiece while OoT is trash. OoT-style dungeons are dogshit and the overworld is completely empty and barren.

>>719088508
That's an issue that plagues nu-Zelda to a T. The main drawback of giving the player freedom of exploration is that you have to keep everything simple since you don't know what tool the player will have at their disposal at any given time.

>>719089496
It absolutely is, beat both on original hardware last year.

>>719089162
there are dungeon items that hard gate access to the next dungeons. i suppose it's nonlinear in the sense you could do 90% of the dungeon, get the item, and move on without killing the boss, but you're still dipping dungeons in a mostly linear order

>>719087668
I also played it? From dungeon 6 onwards the game was filtering me pretty hard, nothing like this happened to me during my alttp playthrough

>>719089889
Not dungeon 6 onwards, just dungeon 6. That is by far the hardest part of the game and nothing else comes close. Just learn the layouts, use your potions, and it's not that bad, it's a fairly short dungeon even if it's quite difficult.

>>719089238
No, I was just playing the PC port. Yeah, that how it's "meant" to kill the boss. But Shiggy said they added the Hammer later in development so it could also work.

>>719089583
You don't need the Fire Rod to beat the Ice Palace or use the Hookshot to get to Turtle Rock. You do need a combination of:
>Cane
>Firerod
>Titan's Mitt
to get to complete Turtle Rock, true. But it's not the 7th dungeon you're forced to do though.

>>719088671
you get told to go to the lake that has the wall you need by some npc, the only time I was stuck is when I couldn't find the lightning medallion to open the swamp dungeon, and it was because I just didn't go left enough when I was searching the death mountain

>>719090117
Forgot Quake.

>>719089629
TotK had mandatory items (champions) you needed to access and clear dungeons. It didn't improve the formula in any significant way.

>>719090275
>you get told to go to the lake that has the wall you nneed by some npc
That NPC being Sahasrahla who tells you the exact location of the Rod and you're forced to talk to him to proceed. It's literally impossible to miss the Icerod.

>>719090117
The ice palace has enemies that can only be killed with the fire rod and there's at least one room where the door is locked until you kill one. You also need it to beat phase 1 of the boss. Also how do you get to eastern death mountain without the hookshot? Is there a portal at the place where turtle rock is in the light world?

>>719089583
>you need the fire rod from 3 to beat 5 and 7
technically you can use bombos in ice palace
>I think you also need the hook shot to reach the right half of death mountain where 7 is
you can go across the top with the hammer

it's more nonlinearity than 3d zelda, but still very minor branches in the intended order. fire rod is only hard required for finishing skull woods and the turtle rock boss so you can put that one off. there's nothing important in ice palace so you can put that off til the end. i don't think hookshot gates much at all if you know how to bonk jump with the boots. might be required for ice but its been a long time since i did that glitchless

>>719090101
6,7,8,9 all raped me tho

>>719090101
7 is harder than 6 without the Cape or Cane because of the section where you have to light one single torch on a moving platform while being dodging those stupid fucking fireballs.

>>719083901
Only the first 3 were good desu

>>719090652
>The ice palace has enemies that can only be killed with the fire rod
Bombos.
>get to eastern death mountain without the hookshot?
Just go up the mountain and jump down?

>>719090763
9?

>>719083807 (OP)
Oh I get it, this is one of those reverse marketing things where you shit on something universally beloved to get people to remember it and defend it and maybe get a few zoomers to check it out for the first time. Good job OP.

>>719083931
Zoomers, or niggers, as I like to call them, are assmad that they've spent literally and unironically their ENTIRE lives playing one of three games: Minecraft, Roblox, or Fortnite. If it's not one of these games, it's a bussin Ohio rizz skibidi toilet frfr ong crash out.

>>719089629
Exactly, it's the tradeoff they bought into when they went full open-world. When every dungeon has to be accessible in any order, they can’t build puzzles around specific tools or progression, so everything ends up being either physics-based gimmicks or combat arenas. Older Zelda games built this satisfying escalation of item utility; now it's just "here's four sticks and a rock, figure it out." Cool the first time, but it wears thin fast when every solution is "Ultrahand it and wiggle until it works."

>>719088980
I would say all the dungeons in LttP are pretty short, only Ganon's Tower would take you more than 30 mins because of how many floors it has or if you got lost in the Ice Palace without Somaria.

>>719090797
I don't even remember that section so must not have been very hard

>>719091465
>they can’t build puzzles around specific tools or progression
Except they do. 3D Zelda puzzles before BotW were complete garbage.

>>719091601
me when I have loads of fun

>>719091601
This is fucking kinoe tho

>>719091687
Your mom must have dropped you on the head then.

>>719091527
My bad, thought you were talking about LttP, not LoZ.

>>719091751
that was fun too...

>>719091601
that's not a puzzle, that's a route of access that is otherwise inaccessible if you don't have the appropriate equipment.

>>719091601
>this is bad
>but holding forward through an empty field for 10 minutes straight good
>not even worth bothering with the bokoblin camp because you will just get some worthless shit weapon that will break in 3 hits

>>719092105
>that's not a puzzle
Sums up everything wrong with OoT and its clones.

>>719083931
The only way zoomers know how to defend something they like is by attempting to tear down something popular from the past.

>>719087453
Why? It's perfectly playable and Nintendo still considers it the quintessential Zelda, so they keep releasing games in its style.

>>719092252
and yet queers of the cuckqueandom doesn't exactly break any new ground in this regard, and no I don't consider it innovative to be able to glue two pieces of wood together and make a bridge or whatever

>>719092656
>and yet
OoT clones are dead and buried for good reason.

>>719084356
>Some games are.
Such as?

>>719085869
>ALttP still makes OoTbabbies seethe to this day
This shit with LttP started after BotW. Stop falseflagging, faggot.

>>719083807 (OP)
ALttP is one of those games where we all know it's overrated slop but we want to be nice to the confused boomers so we just stay silent when they praise it to high heavens.

>>719083807 (OP)
filtered

>>719093065
Spotted one of the OoTbabies.

ALTTP is the best of the 2D games (and the best overall game in the series) and OoT is the best of the 3D games. Nostalgia is not dictating this position either; they just get things right that subsequent games lapse on in their quests for novelty.

>>719093210
>>719085869
>>719092731
>>719091601
samefag

>>719093707
I think a case could be made that the original Link's Awakening perfects most of ALTTP's mechanics

>>719093707
>OoT is the best of the 3D games. Nostalgia is not dictating this position
Not contradictory at all.

>>719093909
Eh, dungeons are vastly better but the overworld is worse (not bad just worse).

>>719093707
Capcom games mog

>>719093981
>Not contradictory at all.
Correct.
>>719093909
LA is too obsessed with its story. It's a great game but all the shit with Marin and the trade quest hold the game back for me despite how good some of the dungeons are; the overworld just doesn't deliver the way ALTTP's does. I vastly prefer LA to the Oracle games though.

>>719094121
>Eh, dungeons are vastly better but the overworld is worse (not bad just worse).
It's smaller, naturally, why do you think it's worse? I think it has better items and mechanics. Roc's feather, bomb-arrows, the flaws as well are more of a limitation of the interface seeing as it just has two buttons and a gamepad to work with.

>>719094217
What an odd thing to say. LA has a story, spread thin across the game. I think the trade minigame is fun, and the story is paced out well.

>>719094217
>Correct.
Why is OoT's overworld better compared to every other 3D game not SS or TP?

>>719093707
Agreed.

>>719094528
>I think the trade minigame is fun, and the story is paced out well.
WhAT An ODd THIng to SaY

>>719094528
>why do you think it's worse?
It's way too linear. It's well-designed and there's always something to do on every screen, but the game doesn't have any replayability. Only played it twice (both versions), meanwhile I played LttP dozens of time and I can never get bored with it. Roc's Feather is god-tier though, just being able to manually jump really does make a difference in the moment to moment gameplay.

>>719094794
Ok, well I just don't understand your gripes. You aren't really giving me anything to work with here. You aren't explaining yourself. What aspect of the trade minigame did you find shitty, just the whole thing, why? Where specifically do you feel the story becomes obsessed with itself?


>>719094896
Fair enough. My dream has always been a proper remake of Link's Awakening that is done in 16 bit with a SNES controller in mind. Had a dream about it once.

>>719094532
What kind of question is that? The overworld in BotW/TotK isn't comparable since it serves a different purpose, so the only Zelda game you're really asking about--having excluded SS and TP for whatever reason--is WW, which consists of a ton of empty space and isn't even worth exploring until relatively late in the game, and MM, which also has different priorities.

>>719095174
>since it serves a different purpose

>OoT was supposed to be empty and barren
There's also much more things to see and do on the Islands in WW and the surrounding regions in MM are more properly spaced out vastly more objects on the field to interact with.