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Thread 719225808

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Anonymous No.719225808 >>719225903 >>719225918 >>719225989 >>719226091 >>719226541 >>719226610 >>719226853 >>719228243 >>719228490 >>719228752 >>719228843 >>719229723 >>719229929 >>719230045 >>719230105 >>719230679 >>719231001 >>719231118 >>719231487 >>719231794 >>719233221 >>719234639 >>719234716 >>719236571 >>719237942 >>719238275 >>719238607 >>719240026 >>719241350 >>719241492 >>719241691 >>719242028 >>719244469 >>719245049 >>719245219 >>719245225 >>719248682 >>719256610
A reminder that if you accept full plate armor in "medieval" fantasy, then you must also accept firearms in "medieval" fantasy.
Anonymous No.719225903 >>719226819 >>719229517
>>719225808 (OP)
Why is this an issue in medieval "fantasy", OP?
Anonymous No.719225918
>>719225808 (OP)
ok
Anonymous No.719225989 >>719249589
>>719225808 (OP)
No problem, just dont being blacks and gay fellas
Anonymous No.719226091 >>719245461
>>719225808 (OP)
The problem with firearms in fantasy is that the fantasy genre is filled with surface level ubernerds.
They'll claim to find pre gun weaponry cool, they'll claim to like armours, claim to like history and folklore and claim to like guns yet if you know anything about any of that beyond the surface level, the whole fantasy becomes too detached from reality because they just don't know how shit works.

The settings are always surface level and justified with "rule of cool" but you know what's cooler? Actual tactics, justification of arms evolution and asymmetric warfare as they try becoming peers.

Mount and Blade telling your army to just charge has more real tactics than fantasy writers and developers come up with.
Anonymous No.719226541 >>719244972
>>719225808 (OP)
Fantasy is the most derivative setting ever, it's an incestuous pastiche of D&D and D&D derived media that doesn't even try to resemble the middle ages or even a mythical interpretation of the middle ages anymore.
Anonymous No.719226610
>>719225808 (OP)
I dont :)
Anonymous No.719226819
>>719225903
fantasyfats are notoriously picky
Anonymous No.719226853 >>719229575
>>719225808 (OP)
Hell yeah. Give me modern-medieval fantasy, damn it.
Anonymous No.719228243 >>719229104 >>719247894
>>719225808 (OP)
It's plausible for a setting to have advanced into plate armor but not have discovered gunpowder.
Anonymous No.719228490
>>719225808 (OP)
Crossbows and magic make them redundant.
Anonymous No.719228632
the real problem is that the fantasy genre takes too much from tolkien, and lord of the rings is technologically about 11th century
but even its adaptations don't respect that
Anonymous No.719228752 >>719238886 >>719246307 >>719247092 >>719247894 >>719256516
>>719225808 (OP)
>firearms don't belong in fantasies
>wdym it's realistic or historical it just doesn't look fantasy enough chud!
How do these people function?
Anonymous No.719228843 >>719228893 >>719236602
>>719225808 (OP)
Personal firearms were few and far between in the "medieval" era and even when they were used with relative success like in the end of the 100 year war, somehow the armies tended to drop them and go back to heavy cavalry.
That only changed on the renaissance where there was just not going around massed arquebus fire lines.
Anonymous No.719228893 >>719229389
>>719228843
How common was personal full plate armor?????
Anonymous No.719229104 >>719247894
>>719228243
They're different tech trees yeah. Also if you have relatively common magic, the niche is filled so noone would think to develop pop stick make ball go zoom when they could just make ball go zoom with a spell.
Anonymous No.719229163 >>719229332
The handgonne amuses me greatly. What a fun weapon.
Anonymous No.719229332 >>719229550 >>719229851 >>719230045 >>719245367
>>719229163
If I ever make a fantasy setting there's going to be a kingdom that's shunned by mages and uses handgonnes while utterly seething at wizards. Like 90% of their time is spent parroting talking points that comes up in wizard v gun threads.
Anonymous No.719229389 >>719229436
>>719228893
Very uncommon, you had one if you were a noble, an elite retinue member or veteran mercenary.
Anonymous No.719229436 >>719229472 >>719229526
>>719229389
It's the sportscar of the last, you buy one as a status symbol.
Anonymous No.719229472
>>719229436
You buy one because it makes you extremely hard to kill.
Anonymous No.719229517 >>719229852 >>719267429
>>719225903
Plate armor wasn't a thing till the 14th century, and the technology and popularity didn't reach it's peak till the 15th century.
Anonymous No.719229526
>>719229436
If you're Henry "bankrupt" the VIII, sure.
Anonymous No.719229550 >>719230228 >>719231332 >>719231562 >>719234482 >>719238669 >>719245367
>>719229332
Remember when wizards were fucking RARE in fantasy settings? Like once in a life sighting for an average farm villager.
But most games and settings catered to all the magiccattles and normies now so it doesn't make any sense how civilizations and technologies progress at all?
Fucking wizard schools, wizard's association, wizard's conclave.
Like holy fuck, if there's levitate magic, there will be no lifting machine, and perhaps not even stonemasonry. People who try to invent such will be persecuted by magic wielders.
Anonymous No.719229575
>>719226853
Been saying for years that a Bloodborne-esque game set in like modern day Detroit or Akiba would be insanely sick
All fields No.719229723
>>719225808 (OP)
But that's the wrong picture, what you meant to post was 16th century armours and firearms, where armour reached its absolute peak and firearms stopped resembling goofy fire sticks.
Anonymous No.719229771
sure as long as it isn't automatic, same goes for crossbows
Anonymous No.719229851
>>719229332
Ah, shit. I’m totally stealing that.
Anonymous No.719229852 >>719230564
>>719229517
>plate armour wasn't a think until the 14th century
Bullshit, we have bronze age plate armour with surviving examples. It didn't take until 1300 anno domini to make metal flat.
Anonymous No.719229929 >>719229968
>>719225808 (OP)
I'll accept whatever I damn well please

The Lord of the Rings has potatoes and tomatoes in it

If fantasy can't deviate from history it's not fantasy
Anonymous No.719229968 >>719230592 >>719230719
>>719229929
the hobbits have potatoes and tobacco because they represent modern british townsfolk
Anonymous No.719229990
Anyone has those pregnant animu grils in armor pics?
Anonymous No.719230045 >>719233925
>>719225808 (OP)
You're going nowhere, what people calls medieval fantasy is the bronze age with steel and medieval castles.
>>719229332
>kingdom
Fuck no, make it one town, all wizards, no women, no kids.
Anonymous No.719230105 >>719230229 >>719230253 >>719230350 >>719230431 >>719231095 >>719233524 >>719246303
>>719225808 (OP)
The secret is that medieval fantasy is not actually medieval, it's Arthurian.

Guns didn't exist in the legends of king arthur and every writer since those legends existed based their ""medieval"" fantasy of swords and sorcery on that idea.
The idea of swords and medieval full plates but without gunpowder. Tolkien cemented this concept into popular fantasy, but it's by far a more ancient idea.

Should guns be featured in "medieval" fantasy? Sure, why not, but it depends on the authors. If they want to base their world on the arthurian concept then I dislike the idea of commonly used gunpowder.
Anonymous No.719230228 >>719231847
>>719229550
Oddly enough there's a Reddit story called Wearing Power Armor to a Magic School where that actually happened. The results are roughly what you'd expect.
Of course it's written by a Redditfag so it's gay as fuck but I appreciate that he actually did it.
Anonymous No.719230229 >>719230512 >>719250887
>>719230105
>The idea of swords and medieval full plates but without gunpowder. Tolkien cemented this concept into popular fantasy, but it's by far a more ancient idea.
there's no plate armor in tolkien
Anonymous No.719230253 >>719230512
>>719230105
I don't think there is a description of full plate armor anywhere in TLotR, you always see characters dressed up in chain mail because that's what people in the sagas and poems he studied wore.
Anonymous No.719230256 >>719230498
Holy secondary thread.

Write me a ttrpg with "actual tactics" where turn resolution is shorter than an hour. Then make it popular. Bam, your fantasy realised.

We have WHFB with the whole "plate and gun" theme and rare wizardry, one of the most popular settings actually, yet you are still bitching.
All fields No.719230350 >>719230512
>>719230105
>Tolkien cemented this concept into popular fantasy, but it's by far a more ancient idea.
If you read the books, everyone is wearing mail or scale armour at most.
Anonymous No.719230431
>>719230105
Arthurian kind of is Medieval, in its own way, since that's the time period most of these stories are from.
Anonymous No.719230498
>>719230256
>just do as I say!
You are bitching too so it's kinda ironic.
Anonymous No.719230512 >>719230538 >>719231137 >>719231745 >>719232808 >>719238742
>>719230229
>>719230253
>>719230350
Forgive me, I'm not very knowledgable in armors as it would seem.
Didn't Boromir have plate armor in the movies for example?
>the books
It's been ages since I read them, so my memory is foggy at best. So I withdraw on my comment on plate if that's inaccurate.
However, I hold my point firmly on armor and swords without gunpowder stemming from arthurian legends.
Anonymous No.719230538 >>719230580
>>719230512
>Didn't Boromir have plate armor in the movies for example?
tolkien did not in fact make the movies
Anonymous No.719230564 >>719230916
>>719229852
Bronze is as very different beast compared to iron and steel, the former can simply be poured into a mold.
Anonymous No.719230580
>>719230538
I was somehow able to deduce that, believe it or not.
Anonymous No.719230592
>>719229968
Which is anachronistic. Welcome to the point, love.
Anonymous No.719230632 >>719230753 >>719230882 >>719231004 >>719231069 >>719245595 >>719246226
If we're going to be that technical, then shouldn't we also be extremely particular about the races of individuals in said fantasy world?

If the main character is white and comes from a small village in a small obviously European based setting / country, then shouldn't the rest of the inhabitants of said fantasy country also look like him?

What say you, OP? Do we have an agreement?
Anonymous No.719230679 >>719232653 >>719232831 >>719235495
>>719225808 (OP)
Sure thing
Anonymous No.719230719
>>719229968
>they represent modern british townsfolk
lol
Anonymous No.719230753 >>719230790
>>719230632
Poc makes you upset merely by existing btw lol
Anonymous No.719230790 >>719231056
>>719230753
>avoids the point entirely
Okay, no guns then.
And yes, they're ugly and disgusting.
Anonymous No.719230882 >>719230949
>>719230632
Where do you think you are? Who do you think you're talking to?
Anonymous No.719230916 >>719235495
>>719230564
Correct, but it's still a mistake to say plate armor is a 1300s invention
Anonymous No.719230949
>>719230882
If we're going to be that technical about minor things in history, shouldn't we be technical about everything? But then it's not really fantasy, is it?
Anonymous No.719231001 >>719231642 >>719239125
>>719225808 (OP)
The overlap these two technologies had was pretty much just an awkward transitionary phase where tradition kept plate armor in play while firearms developed and became increasingly commonplace.
Anonymous No.719231004 >>719231152 >>719235495
>>719230632
It depends entirely on the history of said village, medieval Southern Italy was repeatedly settled with labourers from Northern Europe to repopulate areas that had been decimated by the constant wars between the various powers of the area, so you'd have swarthy locals and the descendents of Arab settlers living in the same village as German immigrants. And later, they would also get hundreds of thousands of Albanian and Croat refugees escaping Ottoman rule.
Anonymous No.719231056
>>719230790
So you are upset about poc, but also about what people think about guns?
Damn you need to stop /pol/ and touch grass.
Anonymous No.719231069 >>719231163 >>719231180 >>719231186 >>719231237 >>719231379 >>719231428 >>719236246 >>719238092 >>719253605
>>719230632
I personally always had a problem with elves being just "high" or "dark" or a variation of them. Where are my desert evles, swamp elves, snow elves, mountain elves and so on? Why aren't there half-elves that aren't half human but orc for example? It's ridiculously unbelievable that some orcs would never take elves as prisoners.

Even wood elves are barely different from "regular" elves. Now that I mention it, what IS a regular elf without a prefix? If a black person from the desert has a child with a "regular" elf, does it become a desert half-elf, or it's still a regular elf somehow?
I'm a bit autistic about racial clarifications in fantasy and the DnD inspired fantasy race categorizations especially with the current trends in racial equality makes my blood boil like you wouldn't believe.
Anonymous No.719231095
>>719230105
>The secret is that medieval fantasy is not actually medieval, it's Arthurian.
Real. Most people don't realise "medieval" fantasy is the 15th century take on the 5th century. That's why details like plate armor are fine, but guns stand out.
Anonymous No.719231118
>>719225808 (OP)
why do want a low dps weapon class? just because it's firearms? there's plenty of fps games to be played
Anonymous No.719231137 >>719231257 >>719231372 >>719231717
>>719230512
Somehow 90% of Saruman's orcs in the movies also had plate
Anonymous No.719231152 >>719231314
>>719231004
Sure, but without actually explaining why a rural village looks the way it does screams nothing but poor attempts to meet certain quotas which break immersion.
America is the way it is because it is an immigrant nation. And even so, it's largely Caucasian. In medieval settings without accessible travel that doesn't take weeks or months, then these rural villages and countries have very specific makeups.
If you're going to make it look like modern New York, at least explain it's a port town or something of the sort.
Anonymous No.719231163
>>719231069
The original distinction came from Norse mythology mediated by Tolkien, and then nerds turned the whole thing in some half assed zootechnics classification because they are nerds.
Anonymous No.719231180
>>719231069
That is because elves are like romanticism in human form, better humans even.
So there is no "swamp elf". Just "elf".
People overusing Tolkien if you ask me.
Anonymous No.719231186 >>719231490
>>719231069
>Why aren't there half-elves that aren't half human but orc for example? It's ridiculously unbelievable that some orcs would never take elves as prisoners.
I agree, we're severely lacking stories in which supple, fertile elves are taken prisoner and had their way with burly, musclebound savages that are the orcs
Anonymous No.719231237 >>719237964
>>719231069
There are all sorts of elves in TES.
Seen any?
Anonymous No.719231257 >>719231368
>>719231137
They are elves so why wouldn't they have good gear?
Anonymous No.719231314
>>719231152
Sure, you have to have a sensible explanation that ties to how your world was built.
Anonymous No.719231332 >>719233096 >>719240297 >>719245367 >>719248041
>>719229550
i miss my magicians in their mystical manses
it got way too fucking anime for my tastes, all magic missiles and obscene buff-stacking, nobody even bothers with burning pinecones or minor hypnotism
here's a rule of thumb: if your local wizard can't be incapacitated by a true and unexpected stab in the back, then the whole setting is bullshit made to indulge powerscalers
Anonymous No.719231368 >>719231472
>>719231257
how do elves even smith? you need mines and miners to mine ore, you need to cut trees or mine coal to keep furnaces running
to make clothes you need cotton fields
elves just live in forests like animals
Anonymous No.719231372
>>719231137
It was to show how Saruman was a technology obsessed freak who managed to start an industrial revolution, they would have driven the point home better if they didn't also give plate armor to literally everyone else too.
Anonymous No.719231379 >>719232076
>>719231069
>I personally always had a problem with elves being just "high" or "dark" or a variation of them.
because in lord of the rings elf classification is basically just how close you got to the two trees. High elves were in valinor but left, while dark elves never took the journey.
dnd just makes dark elves literally dark.
Anonymous No.719231428 >>719259318
>>719231069
Because orcs aren't adequate species or particular species at all.
They're either corrupted elves uglified (Tolkien), fungi (Warhammer, Warcraft), green humans or humanoids (Lineage had cool orcs), goblinoid things and beasts.
Orcs might as well be a meme. An actual unironic staple.
Anonymous No.719231472
>>719231368
They make one sword per century but it's the best sword ever.
Also, they used to live everywhere and fought literal Balrog armies. A lot of their gear was probably stockpiled centuries ago.
Anonymous No.719231487 >>719231625
>>719225808 (OP)
>0 16th century game
WHY
Anonymous No.719231490
>>719231186
Filth.
Anonymous No.719231562 >>719233012
>>719229550
I don't see why they'd be persecuted, but yes in a setting with commonplace magic, it would replace a lot of technology. Hell, that's a good reason for the permanent medieval-victorian society you get in fantasy
Anonymous No.719231625 >>719231825 >>719232492 >>719232828
>>719231487
Even worse, there are 0 30 years War games, and 0 80 years War games despite defining European history up to this day.
Anonymous No.719231642 >>719231939
>>719231001
>tradition kept the thing that could stop a bullet in play
Anonymous No.719231717
>>719231137
Sarumans whole thing was industry, it fits him to a tee to give all his uruks some aliexpress plate
Anonymous No.719231745 >>719232149 >>719233028
>>719230512
Plate armor just looks cooler, chainmailfags keep seething
Anonymous No.719231794 >>719234420 >>719238656 >>719246738
>>719225808 (OP)
How many games are there that use "medievil" firearms though?
Anonymous No.719231825
>>719231625
>30 years War games
>Objective: beat all the civilians to death 0/50.000
Anonymous No.719231847 >>719231923 >>719231929
>>719230228
>Reddit story
>Redditfag
What the hell does reddit even mean anymore
Anonymous No.719231923 >>719232094
>>719231847
In this case it means it is literally published on Reddit by a Redditor.
I'm a simple man, I say what I mean and mean what I say.
Anonymous No.719231929 >>719232094
>>719231847
I think in this case it actually refers to the website, reddit
Anonymous No.719231939 >>719232539 >>719232576 >>719235362 >>719236098 >>719246547
>>719231642
>tradition kept the thing that could stop a bullet in play
Crazy that you believe this, even early firearms were ripping holes through plate armor, they had to keep making them increasingly thick to combat this to the point where the armor became unwieldy, there's a reason it was abandoned after a while.
Anonymous No.719232076
>>719231379
>dark elves never took the journey.
that's a fault of translation on your part those aren't "dark elves"
there is only one specific elf that is called the "dark elf" and that is Eol
Anonymous No.719232094
>>719231923
>>719231929
Okay I did not expect that
I apologize for coming off strong
Anonymous No.719232149
>>719231745
cope
plastic movie prop plate armor doesn't look cool at all
but it keeps production costs down
Anonymous No.719232492
>>719231625
Just start playing tabletop wargames with literal boomers.
Anonymous No.719232539 >>719232935
>>719231939
You're really misrepresenting it, since the inception of sharp stick and thick pelt there's been an arms race between penetration and protection, early firearms weren't the full stop that ended the debate forever. Even up to WW1 they had machine gunners wearing plate to afford some protection against snipers, which escalated shit further and so on.
Anonymous No.719232576 >>719232973 >>719235495
>>719231939
utter nonsense
during 16-17 centuries breastplates were tested against point blank pistol shots before being sold
and cuirassiers were a thing up to 19th century
the English ditched armored cavalry in early 18th century only to reintroduce it back during the War of the Spanish Succession
The Russians ditched armored cavalry in the very beginning of 19th century only to reintroduce it during the war of 1812
Anonymous No.719232653
>>719230679
Bringing the horrors of the industrial revolution one stuffed demon at a time
Anonymous No.719232808
>>719230512
In the books Gondorian army wears chain-mail, and Gondorian elite wore black mail armors with Mithril helmets.
Anonymous No.719232828
>>719231625
Only game that ever comes close to 16th-17th century is fucking mount and blade fire and sword. We are fucking cursed
Anonymous No.719232831
>>719230679
HASHUT HASHUT HASHUT
Anonymous No.719232935 >>719233782
>>719232539
They used plate armor up until WWI but it was sparingly used on a handful of select troops, and this was the case in almost every military for preceding 200 years before that point.
Do you know why this was the case?
Because it had become so thick that it was unwieldy, largely restricted to cavalry and stationary units like the machine gunners you mentioned.
Anonymous No.719232973 >>719233152
>>719232576
>during 16-17 centuries breastplates were tested against point blank pistol shots before being sold
I think this may have happened on occasion, but I don't think it was standard practice. The idea that a breastplate required a dent as "proof" that it was "bullet-proof" seems to rely on folk etymology - "proof against [x]" was already in use for things besides bullets and did not require a physical mark to prove it. And, of course, archeological finds of breastplates with bullet marks do not necessarily imply that they were made intentionally.
Anonymous No.719233012 >>719233204 >>719233303
>>719231562
Because of monopoly and racism dude. People developing things that can replace magic is a rebellion against magic. It devalues what magicians can do. That was the whole fucking during the industrial revolution and invention of socialism: machines replace labor, people rebel against machine owners. It's how humans live.
And this is why there needs to be a sensible numeric difference between normies and magic nerds.
Anonymous No.719233028 >>719233080 >>719233125 >>719233334 >>719233458
>>719231745
Hard disagree.
Anonymous No.719233080
>>719233028
Anonymous No.719233096 >>719233212 >>719234070
>>719231332
Really you guys have a problem with D&D and anime because for some reason Japs can't into traditional fantasy which is the white man's genre. Meanwhile Dungeons and Dragons kind of out of necessity has magic everywhere because it's really boring and has no way to progress otherwise and it also attracts the masses with their shit taste due to being the only TTRPG that people play. There's Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, Ars Magicka, the old Lord of the Rings games and so on and so on which all handle magic in a much more interesting way.
Anonymous No.719233125 >>719233268 >>719233458
>>719233028
Forgot picrel, whoopsie
Anonymous No.719233152 >>719233238
>>719232973
>implying this in only based on archeological finds
nigger this isn't prehistoric times we know they tested breastplates like this
sure it wasn't done with every single breastplate but it was done en mass
so stfu

also I would like you to comment on the military returning to armor
actually I don't
Anonymous No.719233204 >>719234315 >>719247776
>>719233012
There was pushback against the industrial revolution because the technology was far better at the job than the humans and was putting them out of work, noone would stage a riot at reintroducing the hand loom in modern times becausr it wouldn't compete, it would just be a quaint novelty, same with building a big wooden arm to do what a levitate spell does. (assuming you aren't putting arbitrary restrictions on magic usage)
Anonymous No.719233212 >>719233319
>>719233096
>because for some reason Japs can't into traditional fantasy
Probably because it's not part of their culture? Traditional Fantasy is pretty much just European Culture stuff. Japs are not only not European, they dont even share the common backdrop of Christianity. They don't have the culture nor social values to get it.
Anonymous No.719233221
>>719225808 (OP)
I agree, but you can only have firearms OR magic. Having both is dumb.
Anonymous No.719233238
>>719233152
I have no comment and no horse in this race, I was just interjecting some etymology facts
Anonymous No.719233268
>>719233125
Anonymous No.719233303 >>719233679 >>719249140
>>719233012
>It devalues what magicians can do.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH
"No!"
No, it does not.
Science, Magic, Industry, these things actually supplant any actual, unironic an legit, IRL or fictional, capital W Wizard.
It is silly to think that one's capabilities can be devaluated by one's own very inventions any more than art is devaluating its painter.
That's not even the point of why.
Anonymous No.719233319
>>719233212
Shame because I really like animation and they're the only ones who could pull it off though saying that...
>They don't have the culture nor social values to get it.
Nobody in the west does either, these days, if the state of our media is anything to go by.
Anonymous No.719233334 >>719233486 >>719234031
>>719233028
Oh lawd he comin'
Anonymous No.719233458 >>719233942
>>719233028
>>719233125
>here is a drawing by a 5yo of guys in a surcoat, which are covering mail entirely
I have no idea how was that supposed to help your argument
Anonymous No.719233486
>>719233334
Sword, check
Cape, check
Swagger, check
It's teutonic time.
Anonymous No.719233524
>>719230105
was looking for this post, you are correct.
Anonymous No.719233679
>>719233303
>Malding
Anonymous No.719233782
>>719232935
>heavy and unwieldy
>only used on specialised guys
>can't move in it
Now you're just parroting misconceptions.
Anonymous No.719233925
>>719230045
How about this, the kingdom/principality of gunwahnk lives next to a town of wizards, it didn't used to be there but wizards are spiteful cunts and changed geography so they could be in cursing range.
Anonymous No.719233927 >>719234023 >>719234223
I'm a little bit bitter that fantasy became pretty much synonymous with high fantasy.
People hear fantasy and expect a kitchen sink with all the fancy races, and a magic shop in every town like it's groceries.
Anonymous No.719233942 >>719236210
>>719233458
Those Templars were drawn by an oldfag Italian and have more soul than you do.
The surcoat is synonymous with knights of the chainmail era and part of the aesthetic. If you're about to say that chainmail without accompanying textiles (picrel) looks ugly I agree.
Anonymous No.719234023
>>719233927
I don't think "high fantasy" is even synonymous with that. It doesn't *have* to be incredibly derivative.
Anonymous No.719234031 >>719234118 >>719234158
>>719233334
is this from the stronghold crusader games? Nostalgic as fug but I'm afraid to replay them in case they're shit
Anonymous No.719234070
>>719233096
while you are not wrong, you are not exactly right
magic in games has relatively clear rules, and absolutely clear ones if when it comes to videogame
nowadays, the most tropey derived shit does not copy tolkien or vance as a "primary" material, but iconography of games, and strict rules of such games along with them
Anonymous No.719234118
>>719234031
They're still great but might be way harder to play than you remember them being.
Avoid NuStronghold - Warlords and such. The original and Crusader are the only two that matter.
Anonymous No.719234158
>>719234031
Age of Empires 2 (definitive edition)
Anonymous No.719234223 >>719234371
>>719233927
Do they? Witcher has a lot more grounded takes on fantasy and it's pretty much one of the more popular current active fantasy vidya.
Anonymous No.719234315 >>719237720 >>719238404 >>719238982
>>719233204
That's the point I am saying.
If magic can be replaced by tech, tech will phase magic out to the point of extinction. Magicians will revolt or oppress if they have the numbers.
This would not be the case if there were only so few magicians that they cannot monopolize tasks that can done by magics and effectively oppress non magicians, and they would be wiser to just get along with normies.
And if technology does phase out magic, it will be reserved for select few autists.
>Why use fireball when I have flamethrower?
>Why use levitate when I have jetpack?
>Why use freeze when I have a cryogenic spray?
>Why use stun when I have a flashbang?
>Why use teleport when I have a teleporter?
Anonymous No.719234371
>>719234223
It's also, ironically, a kitchen sink setting
Anonymous No.719234420
>>719231794
Battle Brothers has handgonnes.
Anonymous No.719234482 >>719234569
>>719229550
>Like holy fuck, if there's levitate magic, there will be no lifting machine, and perhaps not even stonemasonry.
that depends on how the setting is written.
even if magic users are common using it for architecture and transport might not be feasible.
but of course you have to write around it. same way modern settings now have to be written about everybody having a super powerful computer in their pocket at all times.
Anonymous No.719234569 >>719235248 >>719236220
>>719234482
This is why I prefer "modern" settings from early 00s. All-present smartphones are generally not kind to interesting narratives.
Anonymous No.719234639 >>719248226
>>719225808 (OP)
It destroys game balance though
Anonymous No.719234716
>>719225808 (OP)
Actually, Anon, my setting is an alternate history exploring the geopolitical ramifications of gunpowder never making it to Europe

And then an ancient evil awakens
Anonymous No.719235248 >>719236220
>>719234569
When I watched Seinfeld again I noticed how many stories were built specifically around the stationary phone.
Voice mail recordings, having to stand in line, being able to miss people, not always being available.
Thats just not a thing anymore with mobiles. Of course you could just write the characters so that their phones break or that they have them off but acknowledging that already takes you out a bit.
Anonymous No.719235362
>>719231939
>even early firearms were ripping holes through plate armor
And katanas were cutting straight through plate. Shut hte fuck up you retard. Plate armor was used well into the pike and shot era, because it stopped bullets, but it was extremely expensive to produce such high quality armor and arm all the men at arms with it.
Anonymous No.719235495
>>719230679
Kino approach desu.

>>719230916
Except for the fact that late medieval "white mail" full plate armors are vastly different from bronze age armors, even the mycenaean dendra armor which had decent coverage.
Late medieval full-plate, which is what people think of when talking about plate armour, has nothing in common with brone age examples aside from both being body protections made out of metal.
That's like comparing hussite wagons to tanks.

>>719231004
Not really. It is no problem for towns but villages usually were formed from one complete and distinct population. Even things like the eastern settlements by germanic kingdoms to "colonize" poland and the like had homogeneous groups.
For towns this is less of a problem and any kind of intermingling is not only common but unavoidable.

>>719232576
>point blank pistol shots
Important part being the pistol, protection against those and especially at some range probably want uncommon. One might be able to argue that non-peneteation =/= no damage but whatever.
Bigger issue are all the harquebuises, calivers, muskets, etc. which had pretty decent chances against common armors even at range but that was dependant on a lot of factors.
Anonymous No.719236098
>>719231939
A well made plate armor did stop arms fire before proper rifling became a thing.
Anonymous No.719236210
>>719233942
You can put a surcoat over a plate armor and it still looks cool. What you're arguing about is how surcoats look cool, which I agree on, but for some reason in your mind surcoat = chainmail, which is not the case.
Anonymous No.719236220 >>719236450 >>719236645
>>719234569
>>719235248
there's something deeply dystopian about the fact that we can't enjoy stories taking place in current year as the default but constantly seek to get away from it. Everyone hates integration and depictions of social media in stories, and as you pointed out the amount of things you can tell just gets less. I watched the new Tom Hardy gangster show and like half the scenes were just people on the phone or texting shit, which is realistic but fuck me if it didn't make for dull cinema. I dunno what could break this trend really, maybe we just have to progress technology to some isekai VR shit where people make movies about their VR experiences in their medieval worlds or some shit and it's the final frontier of non-interactive stories.
Anonymous No.719236246 >>719236326 >>719238179
>>719231069
I think Dungeon Meshi's a good example of elven diversity. "Dark elves" aren't an ethnicity, but an old-ass descriptor for elves who conjure evil and cause mayhem with (forbidden) magic, back when a race's relationship with the elves were more enigmatic and sparser in contact. It's basically like calling someone a nigger because they commit crimes and act like a total faggot. Even more interesting is that the blacker-skinned the elf, the closer an elf was biologically to the royal bloodline. Thus, a racially pure elf would have pitch black skin and super sharp ears, while a mutt would have pale white skin and fat butter knife ears.

Just goes to show that dunmer = sexiest elves, I guess. I'm a fucking sucker for obsidian black skin and red eyes (since that's what official colorations of Flamela and by extension, the elven queen is).
Anonymous No.719236326 >>719236608
>>719236246
>a mutt would have pale white skin and fat butter knife ears
Don't you talk about my wife like that!
Anonymous No.719236450
>>719236220
Someone also pointed out that Ice Cube masterpiece War of the Worlds is terrible specifically because it all plays out over what is basically a zoom call.

I think fiction just needs to get more abstract again and simply ignore phones. It might just be necessary.
Anonymous No.719236571
>>719225808 (OP)
>YOU MUST ACCEPT THIS LAME SHIT
No, fuck off.
Anonymous No.719236602
>>719228843
Ottomans conquer Balkans with guns and cannons, and Hungarians fought them with the same guns, petards and cannons, also Serbs, Albanians, Bosnians, Moldovans, Walakhians, East Romans, Genuesians (?) and all Italian city states used FUCKING GUNS on each other. It was the 15th century, late medieval period, right before Renaissance
Your american education is falling from your pants and attracts flies
Anonymous No.719236608 >>719245856
>>719236326
I'm sorry anon, but your wife is literally Italian.
Anonymous No.719236645 >>719236937 >>719237142
>>719236220
At one point I presented /tg/ with the idea of modern fantasy. Because I thought a modern elve state would be funny and similar to 1st worlds today (stagnant, low birthrate, long lifespan, better than you attitude, etc)
Elves, magics, orcs, swords, bows and stuff but in the 21st century.
Some of them were receptive to the idea of it, but some of them were just....upset. stating how it defeats the purpose of escapism, or how it would get too political.
Anonymous No.719236937 >>719237091 >>719237206 >>719238574 >>719238720
>>719236645
This is just a question for you but have you ever heard of Shadowrun
Because this is just Shadowrun
Anonymous No.719237091
>>719236937
All I know is that it is a cyberpunk ish game.
Sell me.
Anonymous No.719237142 >>719237281 >>719237420 >>719237456
>>719236645
>Elves, magics, orcs, swords, bows and stuff but in the 21st century.
Why though? Literally what does this add? When you play fantasy games, do you take hit points off your party for the exertion it takes to dig out a hole to shit into before they go dungeon diving so that they'd notice in mechanics how superior flushing toilets are? It's like playing a cyberpunk game except the only implant you get is Elon Musk Niggalink and all it does is let you purchase overpriced cigarettes with your mind and blast advertisements into your brain. I get you just want to ragebait about le chuds or about how they don't understand your brilliant ideas or whatever, but there's no point.
Anonymous No.719237206 >>719239070 >>719239306
>>719236937
>Shadowrun
NTA but isn't it that one TCG mobage?
Anonymous No.719237281
>>719237142
>Malding this hard over a toilet
Idk man are you a jeet?
Anonymous No.719237420
>>719237142
>there's no point
>different settings with different rules, tools, logics, and lore are all pointless!
?
Anonymous No.719237456 >>719238250 >>719238493
>>719237142
>Literally what does this add?
Fate's insanely popular because it takes mythological fantasy and crams it into a modern/sci-fi setting. Really, the idea of having magic coexisting with the modern world isn't new, but the implementation of it in Fate is arguably one of the better ones (i.e. magic and faith is *slowly* getting replaced by science and innovation, but the mages of the modern day are innovating and trying to find ways to reinvigorate magic by any means necessary. Also god-tier sex designs (pic unrelated Caster sucks lol).
Anonymous No.719237676
Anonymous No.719237720 >>719238184
>>719234315
>why use fireball when I have a flamethrower?
Ask yourself the opposite, why lug around a heavy tank of flammable liquid when you can just use magic?
Anonymous No.719237942
>>719225808 (OP)
Okay, and?
Anonymous No.719237964
>>719231237
HA HA HA
Anonymous No.719238092 >>719238220
>>719231069
The whole "high" vs "dark" elf thing was originally never really a race thing in the germanic mythology where the line between the various elves/fair folk creatures was already blurry as it is, it had more to just do with the role/behavior of the fae in question in the stories, as well as their presumed "location". To my knowledge in nordic myths dwarves and "dark elves" were basically the same thing, as they lived underground.

In Tolkien's story, the distinction between the high and dark elves is just which group had seen the trees of valinor and which hadn't. As in, dark elves never saw the light of the trees. They weren't any more evil than high elves were.
Anonymous No.719238179
>>719236246
Flamela a cute.
Anonymous No.719238184 >>719239043
>>719237720
why study incantations for decades of my life, hardly seeing daylight until i am old withered and gray, sacrificing the best years of my life to memorize some cantrips, when i could just use this flamethrower
Anonymous No.719238220 >>719238524
>>719238092
I remember reading somewhere that Tolkien regretted about not being able to show the positive side of orcs.
He tried to retcon the lore to say "orcs weren't evil from the start" but died before that.
Anonymous No.719238250 >>719238382 >>719238549 >>719239193
>>719237456
The issue for me really is that when "modern fantasy" gets brought up, it's inevitably just
>omg choco elves dressed in modern asian girl fashion so sexy!!! *masturbates furiously*
You could absolutely do something set in the 21st century, but if elves and orcs are just walking around going to their wagie jobs then there's nothing really magical about it and the only way I can see of making it interesting is by ripping off Racial Holy War. I dunno, orc skinheads with the fabled Griffin Leather Jackboots of Curbstomping.

Anyway yeah parallel society is tried and true, Vampire: the Masquerade and all of its spinoffs have endured in the tabletop sphere for a reason. I'd argue, though, that Fate is moreso popular for having good story and characters and sexy girls, same thing would apply to a setting really. It needs interesting themes and conflicts and roleplaying opportunities and White Wolf's Mage kind of does that, I believe, with the whole "Technocracy rules the world and only YOU, the bizarre shut in misfits with magical powers, can fight against it!"
Anonymous No.719238275
>>719225808 (OP)
Name me one game that has 9, please
Anonymous No.719238382
>>719238250
Its like that one will smith movie where orcs just replace black people as the violent retarded ghetto gangbangers, except black people also still exist for some reason.
Anonymous No.719238404
>>719234315
>If magic can be replaced by tech, tech will phase magic out to the point of extinction. Magicians will revolt or oppress if they have the numbers.
Humans of uncommon sense do not operate these ways unless they do, and do you even understand what technology means fundamentally?
Technology cannot phase out magic because it is an emergent function of certain laws. It has nothing to do, with, for or against several definitions of magic (incl. the original Persian). It is an application of principles.
Magic actual cannot be replicated for the same reasons miracles, love, art, friendship cannot, or gear swap without meaning loss cannot be done. Actual sorcerers cannot be ever impeded by anything unequivalent because they stand beyond your strawman of socioeconomic concerns.

Magic as in cool spells & gizmos is technology. It just has different aesthetics and imagery.
Anonymous No.719238493
>>719237456
It's literally just Mage: The Awakening. Nasu played it before making his setting.
>Caster sucks
cunt
Anonymous No.719238524
>>719238220
Tolkien was a catholic so he was uncomfortable with the idea of an inherently evil and irredeemable race which is why he apparently regretted the way he depicted the orcs as purely evil.

Personally though, I think it is a stupid issue to have. Especially given that within the context of Lotr, Orcs were literally either warped via torture and torment from elves by Morgoth/Melkor, the satan equivalent of the setting, or shaped out of mud/animals by the same entity to mock Eru Illuvatar's creations. Either way, I don't see why such entities wouldn't work as purely evil or at least ones with wholly incompatable and alien moral system to men and elves.
Anonymous No.719238549 >>719239015
>>719238250
>omg choco elves dressed in modern asian girl fashion so sexy!!! *masturbates furiously*
What's wrong with this thougheverbeit?
Anonymous No.719238574 >>719239215
>>719236937
Aren't the races in shadowrun just humans warped by magic?
Anonymous No.719238598
>thread about guns vs armor
>becomes a debate about elves vs orcs
makes you think
Anonymous No.719238607 >>719238775 >>719239359
>>719225808 (OP)
Wouldn't firearms be the point in time where medieval just ended
Anonymous No.719238656
>>719231794
Gekokujo.
Anonymous No.719238669
>>719229550
>making things with out magic gives them extra magic resistance because there is a magic-technology contradiction like in arcanum
there you go. if you want your castle to be fireball immune you have to carve it by hand
Anonymous No.719238720 >>719239015
>>719236937
NTA,but I hate how it is impossible to talk about modern fantasy without some retard going "what about shadowrun tho".
Anonymous No.719238742
>>719230512
Gondor in the books is more like 6th-7th Byzantine so chain or Scale Mail only
Middle-earth is very much Dark Ages-inspired, which makes sense since that was the period of History Tolkien studied and knew the most about
Anonymous No.719238775 >>719239359
>>719238607
first firearms entered Europe in the first half of the 1300s. the stereotypical knight in shining armour only really started to look the part from the 1400s and forwards. Guns and Knights existed side by side on the battlefield for about 300 years
Anonymous No.719238886 >>719239000
>>719228752
>
Anonymous No.719238982 >>719239162 >>719239272
>>719234315
>If magic can be replaced by tech, tech will phase magic out to the point of extinction.
Would it? There's little incentive to sink resources into redundant technologies. If a society has something that works, they will generally continue using it until it stops working.
Anonymous No.719239000 >>719242240
>>719238886
Google when guns first appeared and when cars first appeared.
Anonymous No.719239015
>>719238549
Nothing because I agree, choco elves in Asian girl fashion ARE sexy but I just don't think it's enough to base a setting off of.
>>719238720
>talk about
Well that's the thing, what's there to talk about? We've got Shadowrun and the White Wolf games. In the weeb sphere we've got Monogatari and Fate. Do you fags actually have a system yet? Or is it just more art (that you didn't make) like your pic to go "huh that's kinda neat. what WOULD it be like if orcs and elves existed in the 21st century?"
Anonymous No.719239043 >>719239837
>>719238184
>Why study chemistry and engineering, sacrificing the best years of my life to make this flamethrower when scroll of fireball printer goes brrrrrrrrrr
Industrialisation would exist in a universe with magic but it would be geared towards industrialising and mass producing magic itself, not as a completely separate thing exactly mimicking the real world.
Anonymous No.719239070 >>719239306
>>719237206
That's Netrunner you're thinking of
Shadowrun is a TTRPG run by idiots
Anonymous No.719239125 >>719242629
>>719231001
Opposite of the truth. Plate armor evolved in form and increased in prevalence precisely because of firearms.
Anonymous No.719239162 >>719240152
>>719238982
>Redundant
It would be the case if magic is available and accessible to anyone and everyone. Like an average village being able to conjure up fire in the palm of their hand level of ubiquitous.
Most settings state magics either require years of practice and study or require natural aptitude.
Anonymous No.719239193 >>719239348
>>719238250
That's more an issue with modern fantasy writers than the setting itself. One of the issues is that you can't have the same ethnic separation or tensions found in a fantasy setting between the races in a modern fantasy unless you want to insinuate people of various races can't coexist and that racially homogenous societies are the only way to go. While the modern political landscape is now seeing the full-extent of what allowing unfettered immigration can do to a society, one of the core tenants of the modern day is general tolerance for other races and their bullshit.

If anything, a modern fantasy setting where racially pure elves are super rare and the vast majority are either humans, quadroon-elves, and half-elves would make more sense, given how low elven birthrates typically are in fantasy settings. As for orcs, you'd see them go the way of the barbarians of old and having been long-since culturally dominated by foreign cultures, with only recent pan-orcish cultural movements seeing neo-orc communities (think neo-pagans, neo-wiccans, Varg the Orc posters going around saying "stop playing video games," etc.). Alternatively, the orcs have settled into the background as being culturally irrelevant globally but having a strong cultural presence in the lands they live in (i.e. Mongols; largely depends on the geopolitical landscapes the orcs found themselves, I guess?).
Dwarves would ironically be the closest thing to the Japanese, in the sense that they'd probably develop the craziest shit to export culturally thanks to their technological ingenuity that you'd see dwarfaboos or something even in other continents.

As for fantasy races coexisting with magic and modern science also being thrown into the mix, I think it'd largely depend on the setting and how magic has evolved or stagnated since the "high fantasy" era. If magic continues along its own course, maybe a lot of industries are magic-based, with science basically being magic but for everyone.
Anonymous No.719239215
>>719238574
technically yes but also no, there was magic armgeddon dragons appeared and "ancient" species like elves orc oni and such either formed out of existing humans through magic genemanipulation or (just straight up drawn here to earth by magic n shieet) dont actually know if last part is canon
also im pretty sure some geography formed too but ehh
Anonymous No.719239272 >>719239343
>>719238982
Exactly, if someone came up to you and said they've invented a wooden contraption that can hold a cup of tea, you don't immediately rip your arms off and go all in on the Sippy Stickā„¢.
Anonymous No.719239306
>>719239070
>>719237206
>TCG
I think it's shadowverse.
Anonymous No.719239343
>>719239272
>you don't immediately rip your arms off and go all in on the Sippy Stickā„¢.
Me me, I'm a food tube man!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-o7YG3x0DI
Anonymous No.719239348 >>719239836
>>719239193
Having the different races be able to mix at all is shit in most fantasy.

It worked in Tolkien's mythos because he built the metaphysical justification to why elves and men could interbreed into the setting and even still the "half elves" still had to ultimately choose to be either elves or humans. There were no real half elves in Tolkien's mythos in that sense.
Anonymous No.719239359 >>719239454 >>719239579 >>719240238
>>719238607
>>719238775
Just made this useful image for future reference. Medieval fantasy has been a disaster for people's perception of the medieval era. Guns are literally earlier tech than the knight in shining armour.
Anonymous No.719239454 >>719239709
>>719239359
>inb4 chainmails are low tier and for weaker NPCs
Anonymous No.719239579
>>719239359
Honestly the image proves very little. I could whittle a stone axe today and put it in a picture with a 1911 and it would be just as accurate.
Anonymous No.719239614
Best era of armour coming through
Anonymous No.719239709
>>719239454
How does scale armor even stick together? Is there some sort of fabric mesh to which the scales are woven to or something?
Anonymous No.719239836 >>719241234
>>719239348
Personally, I just really like the convenient way racial intermixing works in some fantasies. In Dungeon Meshi for example, elves, dwarves, tallmen, ogres, and halffoots (halfFEET!) are all considered humans in various parts of the world, but in more culturally isolated places, only tallmen are considered human. It's one of the more unique takes on fantasy breeding, in that most of the civilized fantasy races have common ancestors between themselves down the line. Less mysticism involved, basically.

Actually, now that I think about it, Dungeon Meshi largely avoids having religion and gods taking active roles in the setting. Closest you have is the Demon, but that's more of a multidimensional entity accidentally getting trapped in their reality than an actual demon or god.
Anonymous No.719239837 >>719242574 >>719242906
>>719239043
>make this flamethrower
no, i didnt say make this flamethrower, i said use. someone else could have made it, before i was even born, thanks to heavy industry running those gnarly wizards out of town 100s of years ago
Anonymous No.719240026
>>719225808 (OP)
Of course not. Myths and legends, that are the foundation of Sword and Sorcery, have swords, sorcery and full plate armor for cases of Arthurian legends and cases of fighting dragons. No guns are there - therefore no guns allowed. Go play your WH40k if you want a mixed bag.
Anonymous No.719240152 >>719240594 >>719241371
>>719239162
Many technologies, particularly the most advanced ones, were also less available to common people. Clocks existed since antiquity. But common people didn't start getting access to them until the early modern period. John Bradmore level healthcare was scarce until well in to the 20th century. There are ancient public works that were built with greater architectural sophistication than modern houses.
So even if wizards were uncommon, it would still discourage the development of technologies that were redundant with whatever wizards could do. The natural aptitude type of magic would have a way around this if there was a population that had notably fewer wizards. They would be forced to develop compensatory technologies to compete, which could then spread to others. But the training type of magic would be extremely resistant to redundant technologies since their most obvious avenue for progress would be training a greater proportion of the population as wizards.
Anonymous No.719240238
>>719239359
People don't think about a pipe bomb on a stick as a gun, they think about arquebuses.
Anonymous No.719240297 >>719265737
>>719231332
Explain burning pinecones to me, I've seen it mentioned before.
Anonymous No.719240594
>>719240152
>John Bradmore level healthcare was scarce until well in to the 20th century
Genuinely makes me mad thinking about all the lives that could have been saved if people only knew about germs. We learned how to manipulate yeast and make beer without knowing about yeast after all, but still, imagine how drastically history would change if knowledge of microbial life was a thing. Doesn't make any sense without first having discovered magnification and lens-crafting, but still. The simple act of sterilizing your tools before/after surgery would be enough, and sterilization techniques are easily applicable without modern discoveries and innovations.
Anonymous No.719241105
Anonymous No.719241156
>When a Mage plays one match of Battlefield.
Anonymous No.719241167
Anonymous No.719241234 >>719241461
>>719239836
Isn't it outright stated or at least heavily implied in Dungeon Meshi that all the races of the setting stem from different groups of progenitor proto humans or whatever using the deamon to grant them wishes that changed their form to fit their desires better or using magic to create beast races like orcs and kobolds etc?
Anonymous No.719241350 >>719241661 >>719242991
>>719225808 (OP)
Alternatively fuck medieval and give me some god damn Early Modern kino for a change.
Anonymous No.719241371 >>719241963
>>719240152
You make valid points, but technology is also about reliability and accessibility.
Muskets didn't replace bows solely because it can penetrate better. Muskets replaced bows because one could train an average peasant into a line infantry in a matter of months, compared to years of bow training. And muskets by that time was reasonably mass producible.
So yes, if wizards are present, it would impede technological development, BUT, the less common they are, the more people will seek ways to replace them or cope with lack of them, thus making development of both technology and civilization logical.
But the main critique was that if magicians are as common like in most typical fantasy settings (magic shops in most villages, wizards in every party and town, etc.) vs Gandalf level of rarity, magics will replace most technologies and thus prevent humans from reaching a medieval level of society precisely because of the reasons you stated. Magic wielders will be resistant because technology (redundant or not) will replace them and threaten their monopoly.
Anonymous No.719241461 >>719241549
>>719241234
Think that was strongly implied with the Demon's flashback, but even if it was caused by the demon, the process was still gradual and some races likely probably came around naturally.
Anonymous No.719241492
>>719225808 (OP)
There is no need to, no.
>but in real life full plate armor was developed at the same time as firearms
Yes, that is real life, this is fantasy, it doesn't necessarily have to be exactly like real life.
Anonymous No.719241549
>>719241461
Tade best girl
Anonymous No.719241661 >>719241838 >>719242213
>>719241350
>ywn scream HAKKAA PAALLE with your Hakkapeliitta bros
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU1jgB004GI
Anonymous No.719241691
>>719225808 (OP)
Most of medieval fantasy is more about feelings and expectations than actually being realistic. When someone sees a firearm in a medieval fantasy setting, they instantly think "modern" and it reduces their belief in the setting.
Anonymous No.719241754
Magic is an unstable, temperamental, and unpredictable force.

A Firearm is engineered and built. Yeah, it might not be great now, but the design will be improved with time.
Anonymous No.719241838
>>719241661
Kino
Anonymous No.719241963
>>719241371
>muskets vs bows
This topic is mired in misconceptions. But yes, firearms did largely replace bows and crossbows due to their greater range and penetration rather than any other factor. There are no contemporary sources that cite ease of training as a reason to adopt firearms vs retaining the existing missile weapons. And people did have this discussion, particularly in England.
Anonymous No.719242028
>>719225808 (OP)
>A reminder that if you accept full plate armor in "medieval" fantasy, then you must also accept firearms in "medieval" fantasy.
Deal, if you accept fantasy women being as powerful as men.
Anonymous No.719242213
>>719241661
I'm liking those sword designs.
Anonymous No.719242240 >>719243306
>>719239000
>cars first appeared
The cart predates guns and with magic you can make them automobile or be golem based, but since your ancient mother is around she can pull it instead.
Anonymous No.719242574
>>719239837
>I'll just wait for someone else to reinvent the wheel and popularise the wheel2
Ok while you're waiting for that to happen, eat fireball bitch.
Anonymous No.719242629 >>719243002
>>719239125
It was also discontinued because of firearms.
Anonymous No.719242906 >>719243695
>>719239837
Ok so we're back to
>why lug around heavy equipment and flammable gases when a scroll of fireball fits ten to a roll in your pockets
Anonymous No.719242991
>>719241350
> Cossacks is still the best 17th-18th Century Fun Times simulator
grim...
Anonymous No.719243002
>>719242629
Kind of but not for the most commonly believed reasons. Black powder is actually kind of shit and even as late as the 19th century it was still possible to make armor that's bullet proof, e.g. Ned Kelly. The problem was that a) it was too expensive to make en masse and b) almost any given piece of plate armor hampers use of firearms. Any kind of gauntlet will stop you from being able to pull the trigger, you can't use a musket with a cuirass in the way, vambraces interfere with your ability to aim, etc. This is why you start to see the development of things like dragoons and light cavalry, where the idea is to move unhampered quickly, dismout and shoot. Meanwhile the only people still wearing armor are the heavy cavalry, whose only guns are pistols so that their amor doesn't get in the way.
Anonymous No.719243306 >>719243464
>>719242240
A shitty golem cart or your magic fart propelled gocart cannot replace aerodynamics or combustion engine or a proper set of tires.
>mother
Lovely, but you are not as smart as you think.
Anonymous No.719243464 >>719243748
>>719243306
>burning oil is better because.... It just is!
Anonymous No.719243695 >>719243832 >>719244157
>>719242906
>Flamethrower HAS to be expensive and heavy
Your shitty scrolls have to be hand written and enchanted by a smelly old man in his dusty library whereas I can make DIY flamethrower in my own garage to take out hornet nest or whatever.
But I guess you wouldn't know because you never picked up a hammer in your entire lifetime.
Anonymous No.719243748 >>719243901
>>719243464
>burning mana is better because.... It just is!
Lmao
Anonymous No.719243832 >>719243895
>>719243695
>what is a printing press
Face it, your toy isn't going to impress anyone.
Anonymous No.719243895 >>719243965
>>719243832
At least it's real compared to your headcanon lol.
Anonymous No.719243901 >>719243986
>>719243748
>hey there's this infinitely renewable resource just permeating the air that let's use rewrite reality to our will
>no burn more dead lizard goop, boil water
Anonymous No.719243965 >>719244060
>>719243895
And there we go. "But I did eat breakfast this morning". Discussion closed.
Anonymous No.719243986 >>719245930
>>719243901
>it's infinitely renewable resource
In which setting?
Anonymous No.719244060
>>719243965
have fun in your head printing magics :)
Anonymous No.719244157
>>719243695
You need to spray flammable liquid on your foes, and not just ignite some gases. But you are right, technology beats magic, because its layers upon layers of smart men creating technical processes through the centuries. So when old man died, new one can get in his shoes and continues the progress. And of course give a flamethrower to an uneducated farmer who got conscripted into a war.
Oppose to magic, which is a secret fine arts with scribes inherited from an old teacher to a new apprentice, very small scale frail easy to lose progress method.
To cast a fireball YOU need to study, to use a flamethrower someone else need to make it.
I would bring mages to conquer Azteks, but I would bring engineers to beat Moores
Anonymous No.719244469 >>719244674 >>719244851
>>719225808 (OP)
Guns invalidate most of the diverse and cooler looking weaponry that was around from the ancient times up until the 600s or so.
This variety is the backbone behind RPG customization and build diversity, and this is one of the major reasons as to why medieval fantasy is the most prominent theming in the genre.
introducing guns to a medieval RPG may unironically harm the gameplay experience
Anonymous No.719244674 >>719244864
>>719244469
>Guns invalidate most of the diverse and cooler looking weaponry that was around from the ancient times up until the 600s or so.
Frankly, plate armor does this too, arguably moreso in some respects.
Anonymous No.719244851
>>719244469
Not necessarily. Guns coexisted with that stuff for a while before they became so good that most other weapons became obsolete. You had battles with guns and cannons being used alongside bows, crossbows, lances, swords, halberds, poleaxes, pikes, etc.
Anonymous No.719244864 >>719244993
>>719244674
Just use magic
Anonymous No.719244972 >>719245195
>>719226541
No retard, almost all contemporary fantasy is derived from Conan & LOTR, which d&d is derived from, d&d being itself also derived from various myths and folklore, then lastly all fantasy video games in some way are derived from or inspired by d&d. Has nothing to do with real history.
Anonymous No.719244973
>my magic can do xyz, your realism cannot compete
We lost gun bros. We cannot possibly defeat imaginary magics.
Anonymous No.719244993 >>719245115
>>719244864
Magic would counter guns too, it's fucking magic.
Anonymous No.719245049 >>719245464
>>719225808 (OP)
As long as theyre wildly inaccurate and take 5mins to reload.
Anonymous No.719245115 >>719245257 >>719246106 >>719246167 >>719246167
>>719244993
What is the percentage of population who can use magic vs who can use a handgann?
Anonymous No.719245195 >>719251143
>>719244972
And Conan and LOTR and folklores draw inspirations from....oh what am I saying. It CANNOT possibly be romanticized medieval settings.
Anonymous No.719245219
>>719225808 (OP)
The answer is wizards with guns
Anonymous No.719245225
>>719225808 (OP)
God I wish any fantasy games had armor like this.
Anonymous No.719245257 >>719245497
>>719245115
I use magic to teach others how to magic. Checkmate gunfags.
Anonymous No.719245280
Irrelevant but I was always fond of futuristic magic essentially being computerised or presented as scripts/programming.
It hits that sort of sterile advancement and commodification vibe
Anonymous No.719245367
>>719229550
>>719229332
>>719231332
I like it when wizards are considered elusive, rare and strange.
Anonymous No.719245461 >>719245883 >>719245898 >>719245968
>>719226091
What about deviating from history for balance reasons? I want guns to be viable in this RPG I’m making but forcing a player to take 3 turns to load one sucks and leads to playtesters never using them. I did research and found that there exists some breach-loading wheellock pistols in some royal collections, that could be loaded with metal shells much more quickly, but that still leaves needing to crank the wheel. Would it be acceptable to have more of these breach loading weapons even if they were an abnormality historically?
Anonymous No.719245464 >>719245720
>>719245049
Even smoothbores are more accurate than bows. Especially when you consider that they're substantially more intuitive to aim. And muzzleloading firearms take about as long to load as a militarily relevant late medieval crossbow.
Anonymous No.719245497 >>719245667 >>719246138
>>719245257
So anyone can cast spells? It's not the inherited talent, but deep study? In that case, what's the difficulty scaling? Why there are no armies of battle mages?

Because its so hard, as theoretical physics plus neural surgery combined. You can teach this only to a few actual smart nobles and aristocrats.
And I can get peasants to produce guns, and then give peasants these guns
Anonymous No.719245595
>>719230632
Not OP but yes. Making everywhere look like modern day LA devalues the setting.
Anonymous No.719245667 >>719246073
>>719245497
i use magic to make peasants smarter. then dumber later to keep my secrets.
whatever smart and logical argument you come up with, im gonna say "i will use magic" and you cant refute because its magic.
Anonymous No.719245720 >>719246148
>>719245464
>Reloading a gun during the 16th century took anywhere from 20 seconds to a minute under the most ideal conditions.
>Simpler crossbows tend to reload quiclky, 5 seconds max on many. More complicated ones are more powerful, like crank powered crossbows, took longer to load, but often had a more powerful shot. Typically around 7 seconds max for a trained crossbowmen
Google telling me different
Anonymous No.719245856 >>719246618
>>719236608
Mamma mia.
Anonymous No.719245883 >>719246048
>>719245461
Use first gun,
Use second gun
Use third gun
First slave already reloaded the first gun
Grab sword
Anonymous No.719245898 >>719246048 >>719246571
>>719245461
>have gun(s) loaded in advance
>fire gun(s)
>engage in melee with remaining opponents
Even in to the 19th century most battles ended with a bayonet charge.
Anonymous No.719245930
>>719243986
Better to ask for ones where magic is finite.
Anonymous No.719245968
>>719245461
>he doesnt know
Anonymous No.719246004 >>719246103 >>719246462 >>719246893
Firearms is one thing, but niggas want Winchesters with multi action in fantasy rpgs.
Most nerds aren't that much into actual history to know Plate Armor is late medieval stuff and guns in a setting aren't flintlock pistols and rifles.
The worst thing about firearms in RPGs is how they're a bitch to properly balance, not their existence in a given setting.
Anonymous No.719246048 >>719246390 >>719246401
>>719245898
But that’s fucking boring and people want to shoot guns a little more.
>>719245883
Guns as a consumable was an idea I had but I want people to get attached to their weapon playstyle so no. I’m just gonna do my way and accept that I can’t please geeks who don’t have jobs.
Anonymous No.719246073
>>719245667
Actually good idea, brew +int potions, poison village well, teach fireballs to a village, fight off invaders, brew -int potions
Anonymous No.719246103
>>719246004
does it need to be balanced?
Anonymous No.719246106
>>719245115
An arbitrary number because it's a fantasy setting?
Anonymous No.719246138
>>719245497
I can teach scribes to produce scrolls of magic missiles and give peasants those scrolls, hell I can make a lump of mud into a golem capable of using the scroll.
Anonymous No.719246148
>>719245720
>reloading with a cranequin or windlass
>7 seconds
Google is hallucinating at you. I said around the same time, but I was actually lying for simplicity's sake. Even matchlocks were slightly faster to reload than a heavy war crossbow.
Anonymous No.719246167
>>719245115
>>719245115
Also
>What is the percentage of population who can use magic vs who can wear plate armor?
Anonymous No.719246196 >>719246452
Anonymous No.719246226
>>719230632
This looks so American lmfao. It would be funny if shit like this didn’t cause zoomers and women to believe this is actually how it was.
Anonymous No.719246303
>>719230105
>The idea of swords and medieval full plates but without gunpowder. Tolkien cemented this concept into popular fantasy, but it's by far a more ancient idea.
Gunpowder and explosives exist in Tolkien's works. Plate armor does not.
This is the absolute worst example you could've possibly used.
Anonymous No.719246307
>>719228752
It's always the wizard fags.
Anonymous No.719246390 >>719246483
>>719246048
Why not treat it like spell slots? You have a set number of preloaded pistols, reloading a single one would require your full concentration for a full turn so it's emergency only and otherwise you reload between combats.
Anonymous No.719246401
>>719246048
>fighting like the three musketeers is boring
And they can shoot more. You just have to provide scenarios where it makes sense. You could even have a different length of turns for engagements beyond melee range so that reloading isn't an issue.
Anonymous No.719246452 >>719246591
>>719246196
This is the coolest shit. Need more like late 1600s stuff in games. Assassin’s creed jumping straight from the 1500s to the 1700s is such a crime.
Anonymous No.719246462 >>719246530
>>719246004
What bothers me is that people who bitch about guns will think nothing of things like swept hilt or even cup hilt rapiers. The fucking cuphilt wasn't even fullly developed until around 1650, even the flintlock pistol is older than that.
Anonymous No.719246483 >>719246610
>>719246390
Hire locals, give them spare guns, fire on will/reload
Anonymous No.719246501
I think even Tolkien had some gunpowder shit that Saruman used for war and even Gandalf for fireworks. But he never went to any kind of actual firearm.
I don't even think he refers to crossbows in his books, which is a very ancient weapon despite its association and popularity in the medieval period. Everyone uses bow & arrows because it's more heroic or some shit.
Anonymous No.719246530
>>719246462
Different universe, different timeline. Same with plate.
Anonymous No.719246547
>>719231939
Look up the origins of the word bulletproof, you obese american retard.
Anonymous No.719246571
>>719245898
^this
Melee only lost its relevance in the mid 19th century when this fucker showed up and made an example out of Austrian attempts to do bayonet charges.
Anonymous No.719246591 >>719246661 >>719246685
>>719246452
1600s is for NERDS though.
Normies' perception of history is like Stone age > Rome > Medieval > Napoleon > Industrial > world wars > cold war > today
Anonymous No.719246610 >>719246732
>>719246483
Easy way to lose a lot of guns.
Anonymous No.719246618 >>719246760 >>719247440 >>719254424
>>719245856
Superior form of Marcille.
Anonymous No.719246661
>>719246591
Normie perception is only like that because there is a lack of media concerning the early modern era.
This shit is perfectly palatable to normalfags.
Anonymous No.719246685
>>719246591
Also WW1 was just WW2 in silly helmets.
Anonymous No.719246732 >>719247160
>>719246610
Fire at will is kinda poo poo with black powder, the amount of smoke is debilitating.
Anonymous No.719246738
>>719231794
Age of Empires 2 has the hand cannoneer and its unique unit variants
Anonymous No.719246760 >>719246938 >>719247345 >>719247393
>>719246618
Anonymous No.719246773
I tried doing a more of a Bronze Age TTRPG and even that retards treated high like High Medieval thing.
And it's not it's something lacking in pop culture with all ancient Greece and Egypt stuff that still goes around.
Anonymous No.719246835 >>719246979 >>719247013
Is it just me or have dwarves been losing influence lately? It seems like every day more and more boards reject them.
Anonymous No.719246893 >>719248540
>>719246004
>they're a bitch to properly balance
People think they are, but they're not. Their main overpowered features are range and armor penetration. Range is usually not that relevant for a small party or single adventurer going dungeon delving. And armor penetration can be useful depending on the game, but it's not automatically game breaking.
People treat them like instant death lasers, but they're not. People survive getting shot with modern rifle cartridges that do substantially more damage due to their velocity. There's no reason the damage from being shot with an arquebus should be treated any differently than being stabbed with a sword.
Anonymous No.719246909 >>719247074 >>719247306 >>719253003
Anonymous No.719246938
>>719246760
>tripfag retardation
How the fuck is that off model if it's in the show
Anonymous No.719246979
>>719246835
Elves get the sexo race boost. If dwarven women were shortstacks or legal lolis then they'd be able to get some headway but most dwarfposters don't seem to want to stoop to that.
Anonymous No.719247013
>>719246835
I really like dwarves in Tolkien but of all the fantastical races that got inspiration from LotR, they are the ones that every inspired work feels like just a copy and paste.
Even elves get more variation and distinction of how Tolkien popularized them.
But I will always love those bearded dudes who live by grudge and greed and will kill orcs just because.
Anonymous No.719247074 >>719247138 >>719247207 >>719247348 >>719247709 >>719249340
>>719246909
Anonymous No.719247092
>>719228752
Sorry I play GURPS, my wizards are not glorified archers.
Anonymous No.719247138 >>719247438 >>719247709
>>719247074
Anonymous No.719247160 >>719247416
>>719246732
That too, but I was thinking more
>rando you hired uses too much powder, guns fucked
>rando you hired stands there shoving balls and wadding in over and over just pretending to shoot because he's scared of the gun exploding, guns fucked
>rando you hired tries taking the gun apart because he thinks he could make one, guns fucked
>rando runs away with the gun
Etc. the misconception that handing a musket to an untrained peasant makes an elite fighting force is rife in these threads.
Anonymous No.719247162
I want a low fantasy game in early 1900s when you started getting a glimpses into the future like the radio or modern artillery, but it was still normal to ride a horse into battle.
Anonymous No.719247207
>>719247074
Who put that tank on legs, take it down that's silly.
Anonymous No.719247261 >>719247360
I don't hate guns in fantasy.
I hate people who wants guns in fantay.
They're always the most annoying limelight divas possible, crying misery if you don't leat every encounter be that one indiana jones scene.
Anonymous No.719247306 >>719247348
>>719246909
W-what's behind the black box?
Anonymous No.719247345
>>719246760
Halfcelle is literally from the fucking show.
Anonymous No.719247348 >>719247623 >>719252250
>>719247306
Wormhole to the future:
>>719247074
Anonymous No.719247360 >>719247453 >>719247525 >>719247536
>>719247261
>in an environment where its whole point is to be anyone
>you cant be this type of person
found the closet nazi
Anonymous No.719247393
>>719246760
retard
Anonymous No.719247416 >>719247736
>>719247160
Well that too, it is the vestige of the age old meme of bow > gun.
I actually expected that he meant every peasant was trained in the gun.
Anonymous No.719247438 >>719247524
>>719247138
so what happens next?
Anonymous No.719247440
>>719246618
Anonymous No.719247453 >>719247741
>>719247360
Yes. You can’t be a guy who instakills everything. It’s not fun for everyone else. You can have freedom as long as it’s not infringement. Thats not Nazism.
Anonymous No.719247462 >>719247623
What settings handle magic or fantasical concepts with aerial warfare?
Dragon riders and artillery are cool and stuff, but I wonder how creative people can get with it using WWI equivalent eras
Anonymous No.719247524
>>719247438
Dunno he hasn’t made any new art since. I’d wager our time displaced soldier either fights for the country he’s technically from even if it has changed or he retires and tries to live some kind of normal life, or he finds more anomalies.
Anonymous No.719247525
>>719247360
Point in case.
Anonymous No.719247536 >>719248069 >>719248190
>>719247360
Clearly you've never associated with gun nuts. They're like trannies. Every setting they enter must be about guns, and guns must be put on a pedestal at all times. When they encounter a narrative about an arcane barrier blocking a bullet, they'll stop everything to argue about joules and calibers.
Anonymous No.719247623
>>719247348
Poor guy, he'll see horrors beyond avian comprehension.

>>719247462
WW1 I bet that would be pretty hard to pull of I can't think of anything aside from maybe the leviathan trilogy but that I just bio engineered monsters.
Well and there was Teremaire series with dragon riders during the napoleonic wars.
Anonymous No.719247709 >>719247832 >>719247871
>>719247074
>>719247138
Why do the birds fight?
Anonymous No.719247736
>>719247416
Fair, but I'd argue they're hardly peasants at that point.
Anonymous No.719247741 >>719247789 >>719247892
>>719247453
>You can’t be a guy who instakills everything.
isn't that just wizards in d&d?
Anonymous No.719247776 >>719247917
>>719233204
>the technology was far better at the job than the humans and was putting them out of work,
Far faster, not far better, the Luddites were smashing machinery out of quality concerns. Did you know we As A Species have nearly lost the ability to do quality fabrics because mass manufacture incentivizes pushing out cheap and easily replaced bullshit, and even a t-shirt you bought twenty years ago is higher quality than one you'd buy now
Anonymous No.719247789
>>719247741
I hate them too.
Anonymous No.719247832
>>719247709
Because I'm throwing chips to them from the park bench.
Anonymous No.719247871
>>719247709
Fuck if I know, why do humans fight?
Anonymous No.719247892
>>719247741
One's opinion is instantly disregarded if the game they play is DnD.
Anonymous No.719247894 >>719248063 >>719248802 >>719266626
>>719228752
>>719228243
>>719229104
Honestly, gunpowder in a medieval fantasy setting makes sense because not all can be wizards and shit. It takes either luck, decades of training or demonic/celestian intervention to get magic in a fantasy setting. This is not achievable for most and in a war, you want the most of anything instead of relying on very small key units that can't be easily replaced.
Gunpowder would feel the niche of not having enough casters to fire shit at the enemy.
Warhammer fantasy actually takes this very well.
Why use 2 or battle wizards launching fireballs at the enemy when you can have whole groups of cannons doing the similar for cheaper and in greater numbers.
Anonymous No.719247917 >>719248181
>>719247776
Planned obsolescence was a miracle of capitalism but a disaster for everything else.
Anonymous No.719248041
>>719231332
And then you get martial artists that uses totally-not-magic ki/chi that lets you do all sorts of nebulous bullshit
Anonymous No.719248063 >>719248572
>>719247894
Gunpowder makes sense if you write the magic of the setting that way, but it always ignores the question of where are the efforts to industrialise magic. Why use groups of cannons when you can use groups of military grade fireball runes?
Anonymous No.719248069
>>719247536
Those people are pseuds that don't actually know anything about guns. A ceramic plate can stop modern big game rounds. A magic barrier stopping a musket ball shouldn't be surprising.
Anonymous No.719248181 >>719248912
>>719247917
It isn't even necessarily planned obsolescence (but that does factor in), rather infinite-line-go-up and seeing how far the envelope can be pushed in min-maxing the price/output ratio. Much as people malign the Chinese for making trash goods it's still an American company requesting it because it costs less than pennies, they make nice(r) things for their own domestic markets right alongside the shit that the rest of the world requests. The amount of stuff you can find on things like Taobao that is simply not available in the rest of the world is nutty.

Basically all global goods will stay on an infinite enshittification cycle until either people begin hand-making goods (or going local for high-quality production, and for a lot of things we're gonna have to re-learn how to make it well again) or we drag executives and factory owners into the street to publicly behead them again.
Anonymous No.719248190
>>719247536
Now I want the adventure of the fuck your guns wizard with his two arcane familiars, Joules and Caliber
Anonymous No.719248226
>>719234639
Kind of but not if you are smart about it.
I believe ff12 have a rulenfor guns, making them ignore all armor but their base damage is relatively low, thus making similar damage to an equal level sword.
I also play in a dnd table where guns were avaible and they had a similar rule. If gun lv X hits, it ignores armor unless armor is of a level higher, then it did half damage. Special dex throw for the shooter to aim at weakpoints for max damage (all dice). Reload takes a full action but base damage was higher than any other weapon.
Anonymous No.719248348 >>719248507 >>719248542
What should I put Crius in next?
Anonymous No.719248507
>>719248348
Majestic 12, in a bodybag.
Anonymous No.719248540 >>719249116
>>719246893
>There's no reason the damage from being shot with an arquebus should be treated any differently than being stabbed with a sword.
Well, there's one extremely big difference for /tg/ fags, and that's that you can't take a hit from a gun without HP necessarily being tied to the condition of your physical body, aka "meat points".
Anonymous No.719248542 >>719248612
>>719248348
Circus, extra arms would make a decent juggling act.
Anonymous No.719248572 >>719248754
>>719248063
yea, artificers throw a wrench into most fantasy settings.
Still, we are talking about MEDIEVAL fantasy, not renaissance fantasy. The wizards not knowing completely the magic they cast, and thus needing bullshit ingredients and senseless rituals, is a critical part of the setting. Like irl monks not really knowing the process of what turn watery grains into beer but knowing that somehow they turn into beer.
Or irl alchemist of the time not knowing why gunpowder gows boom but that it goes boom.
To industrialize magic one needs deep knowledge of magic at the laws of nature level, things that our irl equivalent medieval times failed to understand completely for real stuff.
Anonymous No.719248612 >>719248810 >>719248891
>>719248542
I have him more as a gladiator so close enough.
Anonymous No.719248682
>>719225808 (OP)
>still wore plate after firearms were invented
>just because it was worthless against bullets doesn't mean you should just let guys with swords stab you to death
Anonymous No.719248754 >>719249383
>>719248572
they can not know the exact reasons behind it and still experiment to refine it, same with gunpowder. Do we have to tap the hat with the wand ourselves for the rabbit to come out, of can we rig up some sort of autotapper with clockwork? Does it strictly need to be a top hat? Can you summon death with 3cc of mouse blood?
Is lore and background history important for games? No.719248802 >>719248873
>>719247894
Warhammer has a good background reason for having gunpowder in the Empire that mixes well with the overall setting, that is chaos and norsca being filled with armoured roided giga barbarians, giant mosters and rape goats.
Anonymous No.719248810 >>719248867
>>719248612
That's not a circus clown at all. He's not even juggling!
Anonymous No.719248816
>tfw you will never get to hear an autist spazzing out about how their armor is the best design while their noble father buries their head in shame
>tfw you will never get to see that autist step onto the battlefield, awkwardly stumbling and losing control of their armament
>tfw you will never see them get their shit stomped in by a lucerne
Anonymous No.719248826
I like guns in fantasy but every single time it power creeps into self loading firearms.
Anonymous No.719248867 >>719249008
>>719248810
Look anon I can't do everything.
Anonymous No.719248873
>>719248802
Also magic in that setting being permafucked so it can't really develop is a major factor. Wizards headslpoding detracts from too much experimentation.
Anonymous No.719248891 >>719249029
>>719248612
bottom right arm coming out of his hip ruins otherwise good art
Anonymous No.719248912
>>719248181
>until either people begin hand-making goods (or going local for high-quality production
Esty will save civilization
Anonymous No.719249008
>>719248867
Clearly not.
Ok this one in particular bugs me on how undynamic the extra arms are, he's presumably facing off against something yet they're just flopped to the sides bonelessly.
Anonymous No.719249029
>>719248891
I'm getting polehammer pieces done soon
Anonymous No.719249116 >>719249237
>>719248540
That's still the same as other weapons. The whole "hit points aren't actually damage" thing is a flimsy premise to begin with. Why do healing potions work? But guns don't upset it. Someone who is really insistent on them not being meat points is already treating arrows that have bypassed the opponent's armor and evasive abilities as actually being grazes or near misses until the target's hit points reach zero. You can do the same with guns.
Anonymous No.719249119
Anonymous No.719249140
>>719233303
Clueless post
Anonymous No.719249237
>>719249116
sounds like some people forget about designated good guy areas of being shot.
Anonymous No.719249336 >>719249703 >>719249747 >>719250175 >>719250620 >>719251313
>loads quicker
>more accurate
>still punches through armor
>can carry more shots
kneel
Anonymous No.719249340 >>719250275
>>719247074
So the wormhole closed behind him?
Anonymous No.719249383 >>719250891
>>719248754
While i agree that they could indeed experiment and shit, the fantasy medieval setting is just like thatbwith magic, somewhat unknowable and hard to acquire. The only ones that could experiment are wizard and in the settings wizard are loners that live reclused in towers trying to understand the bullshit they are casting. And when they learn something, they tend to write it on their tomes and grimoires in cryptic ways so nobody else can completely understand the new bullshit they invented IF the fact of opening the book itself doesn't end up vaporizing the one opening it because of some wizardly trap.
Anon, wizards by the setting are paranoic recluse autist.
Clerics have magic but they can't experiment shit because theirs is given by a divinity. Same for warlocks but theirs is demonic or some eldritch entity.
Druids are hippie stoners who won't advance tech in any way, at beat they would research the making of super weed or some shit.
Sorcerers are lucky bastards that can cast magic just because, so they are the least liekly to even know how magic work.
As i said before, magic in a medieval fantasy setting is supposed to be mysterious and somewhat unknown, with bullshit rituals and meterial components to make this magic possible because mortals barely understand it and at some point they were either given a formula they failed to understand to cast a spell and only know that it works when doing that or they came up by sheer luck with the a bullshit ritual and combination of words that can predictable make a particular spell possible.
MEDIEVAL fantasy, not renaissance fantasy.
Anonymous No.719249589
>>719225989
There were lots and lots of gay fellas in the 16th century tho
Anonymous No.719249703
>>719249336
>faster to reload
Only against the earlier models of guns but it did had more range than guns for a long time
They were used alognside early guns but were later phased out because guns because very comparable and the logistics of guns became way simpler than of crossbows
A bag of gunpowder and a bag of lead balls are easier to carry than a full carcaj of bolts.
Guns are a direct replacement for crossbows and a direct evolution of the weapon trch tree.
Heck, both were used similarly early on, by having a crew of two or three operating the same guns or crossbow, one shooter and one or two reloaders. Crews often had multiple guns or crossbow.
Anonymous No.719249747 >>719251987
>>719249336
>requires an absolutely fucktarded amount of strength and leverage to load (note the FOOT LEVER for the end of the crossbow)
>misfires or equipment malfunctions are every bit as dangerous because of the high tension
Anonymous No.719249894
Anonymous No.719250175 >>719250978
>>719249336
>Guy who only uses a crossbow
Lame as fuck
>Guy who uses a crossbow as a sidearm to a melee weapon
Cool as fuck

Why is it like this?
Anonymous No.719250275
>>719249340
Yeah. Stuck in a future era.
Anonymous No.719250454 >>719250724
I agree and would like more English Civil war era settings, fantasy or otherwise. The cutting back of full plate down to breastplate and helmet and the widespread adoption of firearms is a moment that never really gets explored
Anonymous No.719250505 >>719251894 >>719252223
>no game about the hussite wars where they used handgonnes, crossbows and polearms in unison.
Closest thing I can get is battle brothers and blasting nobles with guns during the noble wars.
Anonymous No.719250620
>>719249336
Literally none of those things are true.
Anonymous No.719250724
>>719250454
>single metal gauntlet
dare i say it, kino
Anonymous No.719250887
>>719230229
Prince Imrahil and his knights had plate harness
Anonymous No.719250891 >>719252429
>>719249383
You're still past the point of complete ignorance if the equally paranoid recluse alchemists are massive producing black powder. That said, there isn't a single definitive fantasy setting, technology and magic can be at whatever point fits the story you're telling.
Anonymous No.719250978
>>719250175
Just make the crossbow fucking massive and it becomes cool.
Anonymous No.719251143
>>719245195
That's what I'm saying, yes. Didn't know I had to include cave paintings in my chronology to get the point across. That is, that historical accuracy is not in the equation, wizards and dragons are not real but part of a world building language.
Anonymous No.719251204
Anonymous No.719251313
>>719249336
>>punches through armor
memes were a mistake
Anonymous No.719251894
>>719250505
Well and KCD2 but imo that suffers mechanically and doesn't focus enough on the bigger scale.
Anonymous No.719251987 >>719252217
>>719249747
That's what the crank/windlass is for, so you can have huge draw strength without fuckhuge arms.
Anonymous No.719252217
>>719251987
Trade of is time and hassle. Windless especially luve ro get entangled and are a bitch to handle. Genoese had the right idea with going 3 man per crossbow.
Anonymous No.719252223 >>719252284
>>719250505
Medieval 2 Total war mod Tsardoms 1448 Fall of the Constantinople
You can play as Hussites, as Ottomans, as Hungarians as Sicilians, etc You can ask the Pope to send Crusade against Bohemians etc
Anonymous No.719252250
>>719247348
Thanks anon, didn't piece the images together until you spelled it out.
>noticeable gap in the group photo with the bird guy on next to where he should be staring at it
Anonymous No.719252284 >>719252750
>>719252223
I think sicilians and Naples had cool late game armoed gunners in that one.
Anonymous No.719252429
>>719250891
Alchemists are not wizards though they sometimes overlap in some settings
That being said, it's true about the setting being whatever the author wants but they still follow some basic rules, otherwise it's something else than medieval fantasy and that's my point. Final fantasy is usually not medieval fantasy, either just fantasy or they mix magic and tech together, thus not medieval fantasy even in the settings that may resemble a medieval setting.
The moment magic is understood at a law of nature level, then it becomes something else, it stops being medieval fantasy and it becomes either renaissance fantasy or whatever one may call it.
Anonymous No.719252750 >>719253446
>>719252284
Nah, Florence is the strongest faction. Its just cheating to play as them. Infinite gold, mega based roster, mercenaries are too OP. + as Italian you have merchants.
Anonymous No.719253003 >>719266387
>>719246909
Anonymous No.719253285 >>719253614 >>719254284
Why is it always gun autists?
Anonymous No.719253446 >>719260909
>>719252750
But do they have the best gunners?
And yes that is the most important thing.
Anonymous No.719253605
>>719231069
Or Chinese Elves
Anonymous No.719253614
>>719253285
Guns are cool.
Anonymous No.719254284 >>719254692
>>719253285
Because most other kinds of autist are content where they are. Like, you don't see plane autists breaching the containment of threads where the OP is just an image of the live action Ace Combat guy.
Anonymous No.719254424
>>719246618
I disagree
Anonymous No.719254692
>>719254284
They're represented by flight sim/War Thunderfags in those threads
Anonymous No.719256056
Even asian fantasy acknowledges guns usually games set in the japanese sengoku period or chinese ming or qing dynasty. It is really weird how western fantasy just prerends the 1500s up to the 1700s didn't exist at all.
Anonymous No.719256393 >>719256640
I want more games where you use the really slow to load and fire black powder guns, it's fun
Anonymous No.719256516
>>719228752
I want people to be fighting in disorganized brawls with Swords and axes, rather than Phalanx formations, and old hand-cannons that take forever to reload.
Anonymous No.719256610
>>719225808 (OP)
I agree but it will never happen for patently retarded reasons
Anonymous No.719256640 >>719257226
>>719256393
Is that the blood and smoke mod? Modded shokuho to give myself wukou pirates armed with ozutsu handcannons and shit is fucking hilarious just blasting rows of ashigaru and samurai from afar.
Anonymous No.719257226
>>719256640
I believe so yeah, just adds a bunch of blackpowder guns and units that use them to the regular game. Not very complicated but fun as hell.
I have good memories of Gekokujo, haven't tried the BL version yet.
Anonymous No.719259318
>>719231428
I'm pretty sure Warcraft Orcs are not Fungi. They are aliens. Literally, invaders from another planet entirely.
Anonymous No.719260909
>>719253446
I think Ottomans have the best gunners aka Janissars they shoot super far, they don't run away, they look cool
All italians have an access to long range arquebusiers or something, but only after historical event, and desu italians wins the game before this point
Anonymous No.719262932 >>719263876
Bow bump
Anonymous No.719263876
>>719262932
The weapon of gigachad horse archers or peasants with no inbetween.
Anonymous No.719264070 >>719264295
SLINGERS RISE UP
Anonymous No.719264295
>>719264070
Forgotten gods
Anonymous No.719265737
>>719240297
In The Hobbit, the party gets chased by warg (big wolves)-riders and takes refuge in a tree. Gandalf picks pinecones and turns them into fireball grenades to fuck up the wolves.
Anonymous No.719266387
>>719253003
Anonymous No.719266626 >>719267089
>>719247894
I agree that it makes sense in a limited capacity but I think it's plausible that nobody happens upon the combination of saltpeter/sulfur/charcoal. I mean the process for getting usable saltpeter in medieval times sounds like the bullshit kids on the playground would tell you about secrets in games.
I like how it is in vermintide for the human knight character whose name I forget. He has a big fuckoff gun for shooting specials but his main weapon is a sword or poleaxe.
Anonymous No.719266959
I have a slight suspicion that "medieval" period lasted longer than couple decades. But i'm not an expert on this topic.
Anonymous No.719267089 >>719267653
>>719266626
>the process for getting usable saltpeter in medieval times sounds like the bullshit kids on the playground would tell you about secrets in games
-30 reputation with the Alchemist's Guild
Anonymous No.719267429 >>719267825
>>719229517
>and the technology and popularity didn't reach it's peak till the 15th century.
Wrong, steel tempering techniques peaked in the 17th century. 17th century full plate armor was so absurdly powerful and expensive, it was capable of resisting firearms and heavier firearms were needed to pierce it.
Anonymous No.719267653
>>719267089
>Be me
>Medieval peasant
>Allergic to saltpeter
>Used to be a wallbeater
Anonymous No.719267825 >>719268365
>>719267429
So the thing I never see historians really answer conclusively is why the hell did plate armor fall out of style? My guess is that the transition to standing armies just made it impractically expensive but everyone else seems to have their own ideas as to why.
Anonymous No.719268206
It's not a question of if the technology is possible, it's a question of how the world Designer wanted people to feel and interact with the setting, I love guns, but they cannot exist and be effective without wholly changing the World.
Peasants would just beat back the local goblin infestation and blow up their lair with homemade cannons, they'd just build a ditch and improvise an abatis to beat off the roaming Gnoll band, no need for adventurers, guns make the Adventurer obsolete and that goes against the feel people want from generic fantasy.
Anonymous No.719268365
>>719267825
Artillery, every question of why medieval thing became obsolete the answer is artillery.