Thread 719720283

Just finished this game. Siding with him at the end is the objectively correct choice, right? He did literally nothing wrong

I wish I was stupid enough to get invested in this game's story

>>719720283 (OP)
What a gay looking character design

>>719720283 (OP)
He isn't real, he died in a house fire.

Only option is to leave so Aline can move on.

>>719720283 (OP)
He did literally everything wrong.

>>719720283 (OP)
He lies to you at every step of the way so some people take issue with him
That said yes he is objectively the better choice

>>719720283 (OP)
No, both choices are wrong in one way or another. That's the whole point.

>>719720283 (OP)
If you have to ask, then you missed the point.

>>719720768
Doesn't lie, just hides information.

>>719720283 (OP)
He did a lot wrong. But he's right about the final choice.

>>719720772
Yeah, maybe the developers shouldn't have framed one of them as objectively terrible and hollow.

>>719720886
lying by omission is still lying

>>719721435
People are allowed to have private information they don't want to talk about.
They wanted to kill the paintress, he helped there.

>>719720965
They did that to both, you just refuse to see it.

>>719720283 (OP)
>Siding with him at the end is the objectively correct choice, right?
Yes
>He did literally nothing wrong
Not quite, letting Gustave die was extremely counterproductive and so was most of his constant lying. He's basically the reason why there was no option to talk Maelle out of staying in the painting which forced a shitty choice where his ending was the lesser evil.

>>719722128
He is his father’s son after all.

>>719720283 (OP)
There is no objectively correct choice, by design.

IF you think otherwise you are low IQ or autistic.

>>719720283 (OP)
He killed thousands

>>719722267
>leave painting and face real life and its challenges
>stay in goon cave and after that the canvas gets destroyed anyway
I can see why SOME people would like Maelle’s ending

>>719720283 (OP)
This is the literal only takeaway from the game

>>719720283 (OP)
Choosing Verso is the best ending if we accept that in this game's world the painted people aren't fully conscious living beings, then it's more like turning off an ai. But if they are as real as real life humans then you're effectively committing a genocide.

>>719722495
The thing is they are real people but most of them are already dead and they'll all die soon anyway.

>>719722495
If you compare the people in the canvas world to AI then you don't know anything about "AI" and you also are not paying attention.

>>719720283 (OP)
No.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAXFndOhaio

>>719720283 (OP)
>French story

Imagine if this trash game were written by real humans instead of some Paris trash. The story would be good.

>>719722590
i think it's a pretty apt comparison
>>719722560
>they'll die soon anyway
that's not guaranteed. I know she lied and doesn't plan to leave, but she could have a change of mind, come to and from the painted world like she first promised, thereby showing her father that she has the willpower not to stay there forever and he'd have no real reason to destroy it then

>>719722128
Alicia did that all on her own, she didn't take a single thing she learned from her time as maelle about grief or death when she became alicia.

>>719720283 (OP)
There is no "objectively correct choice", which common sense should have told you. And now both the writer and director have spelled it out in interviews. The player makes the choice based on personal ethics and their interpretation of the work. So in a way, you made the "correct" choice but it's still as hypocritical and self serving as Mallefags' choice. Which was the point.

>>719720283 (OP)

Of two flawed options, Maelle’s ending is pretty clearly the best one. Verso’s ending is quite literally sacrificing an entire world filled with sentient lives just to help one single family outside of the painting (and because selfishly he no longer wishes to live but is unable to kill himself). Maelle’s ending leaves the family grieving yes, but again, at the cost of destroying an entire world.

The idea that those in the painting have no value is disproven by Maelle’s experience and the 30+ hours you the player experienced. They may not be true humans, but they’re real. Verso’s ending is quite literally genocide.

>>719723358
>is quite literally sacrificing an entire world filled with sentient lives
Most of them are already dead.
>Verso’s ending is quite literally genocide.
Already genocided.
Also, nobody actually cares about him doing it, barring lune, not even fucking alicia if he wasn't there.

>>719723261
>And now both the writer and director have spelled it out in interviews.
>maellefag seethes because people who chose her ending don't like her ending
>he laughs
>YOU DIDN'T UNDERSTAND VERSO BRO
They just can't come out and say which ending they think is better, because the discussion keeps the game alive.
But DAMN did they try hard to portray maelle's ending as terrible.

>>719723452

>most of them are already dead
>nobody actually cares
Maelle has the power to grant them life again, as a true continuation since they remember their lives before getting gommaged. Ignoring her potential to save the entire world is the same as killing them all again. Everyone granted life again surely cared and is glad to be alive.

>>719720283 (OP)
Maelle's ending is more righteous as a "saving everyone" ending, though it doesn't feel right.
Verso's ending is less righteous, but it feels like you're setting things right.

>>719723743
>people think Renoir is just going to let the canvas stay after his daughter OD’s.
The difference between both endings is one death.

>>719723978
It also skips every single scene of maelle saving everyone and you are fastracked to the very fixed concert hall (fuck the rest of lumiere) as she enslaves her own brother.
They made a fantastic portrayal of how shit it is.

>>719723539
>They just can't come out and say which ending they think is better, because the discussion keeps the game alive.
>But DAMN did they try hard to portray maelle's ending as terrible.
You can keep telling yourself whatever you like to validate your biases. The point of the ending was for both parties to be as delusional as they see fit. It does not change the fact both endings are deliberately unhappy.

>>719723452
This all falls apart when you remember the gestrals and grandis are also sentient creatures who are decidedly not "already genocided"

>>719720283 (OP)
His ending is COPE FRENCHIE, the other ending is lmao escapism

>>719724029

Time in the painting is far different than outside. Alicia/Maelle could stay in the painting for years outside but it could be thousands and thousands of years inside. Is the Earth not worth saving because a meteor will eventually hit it? Things don’t lose their current value just because they won’t exist in perpetuity.

>>719720454
But anon the story is non-existent. It's narrative driven and thus is terrible by default so there is not much you are missing.
Everything that they set up in the Prologue and Act 1 has no pay off at all and goes from an existential mystery to family drama for the last two acts. It shits the bed in every conceivable way up to and including "it was all just a dream!" trope.

>>719724320
>has no pay off at all
Brainlet

>>719723031
If only it was written by Druckman or Kojima or whoever wrote Dustborn.

>>719724078

They had to do it that way to at least try to keep it ambiguous as to whats better, thats the thing. If they showed her saving everyone, there would be absolutely no doubt it was better, but whether they showed it or not it did still happen.

>>719720283 (OP)
I hated Verso from the moment I met him
>wtf ist his discount gustave? fuck him
Yet, I sided with him.

It was objectively the right thing to do.

>>719720283 (OP)
Only waifufags agree with Maelle.

>>719724370
>no argument

>>719723743
They were never really alive to begin with. It's like thinking that deleting your Sims save files is the same as comitting genocide.

>>719724320
"I don't think the paintress is evil" was set up in the prologue.

>>719724307
Her mom, the biggus dickus master paintress was falling apart after 50 or 60 years. I also think it cheapens the lives of the painted people and Alicia’s own attachment to them by having her control them all into being her own perfect little world. It’s hard to respect their lives when Gustave and Sophie just pop up at the end like none of the emotional beats of the story mattered and it’s all fixed now. They’re toys, or at least that’s what they become in Maelle’s ending.

>>719720537
>meanwhile in the jewtube sphere
>"why is he so hot" - every SINGLE female youtuber
You're a virgin.

>>719724609

This is the fundamental issue Renoirfags can’t understand. Though they only exist in the painting, they are clearly living, sentient things, indistinguishable from lives outside the painting. How do I know? Because we just spent 30+ hours living in their world and seeing proof of that lol. Each one of them has equal value to a person outside the painting.

Maelle died in act 2.

The Maelle you met in act 1 would have sided with Verso because FUCK staying in Lumiere. She used to literally prefer to die than stay one more year with them.

>>719720283 (OP)
>Siding with him at the end is the objectively correct choice, right?
Yes. I love Sciel but they are paintings and their world's existence was hurting Verso's real family and eventually kill his mother and sister

>>719722495
>Choosing Verso is the best ending if we accept that in this game's world the painted people aren't fully conscious living beings,
I can accept that and still consider Verso the best ending.
The "real human beings" you speak of died in Act 2. Besides a few gestrals, there was nothing to save anymore during act 3.

>>719722452
Clea is top, verso is top too.

>>719724876

Maelle was a teenager with no family at the beginning, but the point of her development was that she found her family and found value in her and their lives throughout the adventure.

>>719720454
>/r/iamverysmart-ahh post

Makes a good ending where everybody but Verso lived happily ever after (good, because fuck Verso).
People thinks it's bad because of a black and white filter and some ominous music queue.
>But Maelle's body will rot away in the real world
Her dad's been in the painting for 67 years and he's still fine. She could play around for a few more decades until somebody (likely Gustave) convinced her to go outside for a bathroom break every once in a while.
One ending is irreversible, while in the other, anything could happen afterward. Anything.

>>719720283 (OP)
At that point it's the correct choice yes. He did everything wrong and deserves to suffer though. It never should've gotten to that point and he could've prevented it.

>>719724781
Painters do not consider painted creations as their equals. They are like Sims, to them.
Besides, they were created based on Aline's memories of real people (though I don't know how that works with the children).

>>719724378
I said REAL HUMANS. Those fuckers are less than animals.

The true takeaway from the story is that it makes you hate the Dessendres, and therefore Maelle's ending is the objectively best choice because it inflicts the maximum amount of suffering upon those pompous pricks.

>>719724093
>wanting to save your mother from a crippling addiction born to cope with depression from losing a child that would eventually kill her and preventing your sister from going down the same path is somehow delusional

>>719725174
>>719724609
Renoir, the person trying to kill everyone, disagrees with your assessment. He simply considers his family more important than their lives. Clea is the one who lies to herself about them not being people, Renoir was trying to make it as fast as possible to rip the genocide band-aid off.

>>719725164
Maelle would have been dead without Verso saving her from the fire in the first place
>Repays him by using the last piece of his eternally tormented soul as a VRchat onahole
Maellefags have no concept of morality

>>719725164
You claim Alicia's ending is better for the people inside it, but unironically letting Alicia stays is what dooms the painted people in this ending. If you think the canvas isn't burning the second she dies, I don't know what you're thinking.

The only way to have the people survive is for the painted people to make a bargain with Renoir: they'd kick anyone from entering the canvas, in exchange for their lives.

>>719725174

I know the painters don’t, but what I’m saying is that throughout the experience of the journey (and Alicia/Maelle’s own judgment), shows that they are wrong.

>>719725106
Correction.

Maelle had no power at the beginning, and once she found out she's a goddess with omnipotent power she decided to stay.

She had a family at the beginning (gustave, emma), and she abandoned her family by the end of the game (renoir, monoco the third, noco)

Maelle's is better because Verso deserves to suffer. Play the piano fagboy, just like you promised you would

>>719725174
This. To quote the most based character in the game.
>You painters do whatever you want
Painters are EVIL.

This game has no story but the narrative sucks too.

This game has like two good characters and that's Renoir and Verso.

>>719725360
>Clea is the one who lies to herself about them not being people
Uh, no, she straight up doesn't consider them alive. Forgot how she mentioned painted Verso? What she did to Simon?
That's not the actions of someone who "lied to herself about them not being people".

As for Renoir, it is likely it doesn't consider them as alive too. He hates erasing the canvas, not because of the Lumiere people (that are Aline's creations), but because it contains Verso's piece of souls and creations made by him.

>>719723097
>but she could have a change of mind
she won't, that is the entire point of the maelle ending
she's already losing it when she calls verso her brother

>>719725437
>The only way to have the people survive is for the painted people to make a bargain with Renoir: they'd kick anyone from entering the canvas, in exchange for their lives.
This is the correct ending. The only way the people in the painting can survive is if the Painters stop intervening, and that includes Alicia.

>>719725697
The cope of someone who refuses to understand the weight of their actions. Renoir would be disappointed with you.

Fuck the painted people and Maelle

>>719725697
Renoir talks to pVerso, Lune and Sciel as if they're real, living, conscious beings (which they are), so where are you getting the idea that he doesn't consider them alive from?

>>719723358
The world is getting destroyed anyway the moment Maelle dies of being-in-a-painting overdose.

>>719725360
>Renoir, the person trying to kill everyone,
He literally killed everyone. He didn't "try"

>>719725437
I did say anything could happen after Maelle's ending, including the bargain with Renoir you suggested.
They can't bargain if the painting's already ereased, can they?

>>719725846
That would be an act of pointless spite. He would certainly make another attempt to kick her out before that point though.

>>719725827
Renoir factually ignores Lune and Sciel. He only spoke to them once they opened their whore mouths. He doesn't even see them as living beings.
You're right about pVerso tho.

>Most characters are the paintresses creations
>Alicia perfectly recreates all her mothers creations as soon as she remembers who she is

Can't this stupid whiny character just recreate all the panted people in a different painting?

>>719725424
>Maelle would have been dead without Verso saving her from the fire in the first place
No, Maelle would've been evicted from the painting which is also exactly what happens to her at the end of Act 2 because of Verso

>>719725770
This. I wish people liking Alicia's ending would at least realize that the painted people (that they claim Alicia wants to protect) are still doomed in her ending. But no, they are caught up in her lies and fantasies.

Any painted people with thinking capabilities, in this setting, would ask this question one time: "what happens when she dies?"

Reminder Clea could have taken Aline out of the canvas by force in seconds, but chose to make Renoir waste his time instead.

Cuck worlds do not get to exist. Leftists can kill themselves.

>>719720283 (OP)
Yes yes you're white

>>719725982
She can. Verso even said so.

>You can be Maelle whenever you want.
>You don't need this canvas.
>Sciel is right, all you see are walls (referring to how she doesn't see the posibilities of her powers being replicated in a canvas of her own)

>>719725969
Why do you disregard Renoir's own actions?

>>719725969
>"You grieve for two."
is not something you say to someone you don't consider a living being, c'mon
>>719726070
To be fair it would be years, eons even before she died. It'd be like the average human having a meltdown about the sun's red giant phase swallowing our planet in thousands of years. This sort of existential panic is beyond most people's imagination and ultimately doesn't matter.

>>719726210
The ones in act 2? He killed both of them, no questions asked.
Meanwhile, to pVerso, he first apologized, and then attempted to delete him.

Notice the difference?

>>719720283 (OP)
Life keeps forcing cruel choices.

>>719720283 (OP)
I hate this guy, so I went with maelle, but that was way worse than I expected.
I looked at his ending on YouTube and didn't like it either, but yeah, it's slightly better.

>>719725307
Yes. You are free to delude yourself you did not enable Verso's escapism via suicide as well as the erasure of all sentient and sapient life within the canvas for the sake of a single family in which recovery (especially Maelle's case, in which Verso told her to fuck off into another canvas if she hates her outside life so much) is in no way guaranteed.

You can sugarcoat it in whatever self justifying rhetoric you please - your choice is selfish.

>>719726331
>>"You grieve for two."
How did he know? He wasn't there.

>>719726086
Where'd you get that idea?

>>719726336
He wanted to avoid having to converse with his victims yes. When forced to however it's clear he does consider them alive.

>>719725437
>is for the painted people to make a bargain with Renoir: they'd kick anyone from entering the canvas, in exchange for their lives.
Painted people don't appear to be capable of detecting people from outside the canvas, let alone ejecting them

>>719726208

Fake drama game, everything is reversible and the entire game revolves basically around a family mourning for like 70 fucking years because they can't leave a painting to the point the dad has to take it away from them. Women being impossible the game.

>>719726436
The literal existence of Simon.

Imagine 6 Simons.

>>719725982
The implication is that she required their Chroma to repaint them (with memories and all) and Chroma seems to be canvas specific. She could probably paint her own versions after she gets as good as her mother.

>>719726471
No idea what you mean, never reply to me again.

>>719726507
Simon lost to Renoir in lore though. He's only the strongest from a gameplay perspective. He'd lose to Aline's "enforcer" pRenoir too, considering he's immortal.

>>719726507
I dunno what you're talking about dude, Maelle oneshot Simon before he could do much of anything :^)

>>719720283 (OP)
Verso is Verso, and it's Verso's canvas

>>719726463
Gustave could've figured out a way given a few more years and some technical details from Renoir.

>>719722423
I get the logic behind it being bad but she's literally disfigured to the point she can't even speak. I'd be a selfish piece of shit in her position too and so would just about anyone else with the kind of injury she sustained

>>719725437
>The only way to have the people survive is for the painted people to make a bargain with Renoir: they'd kick anyone from entering the canvas, in exchange for their lives.
Yeah this would have been actually smart, like if Renoir, pRenoir, pVerso, pAlicia and some expeditioners that could get talked into this would all agree. Maybe if Gustave survived and he and Lune/Sciel could talk Maelle into it and then also talk to Aline and the real Verso fragment, but that requires a lot of people who aren't in their right minds or have beef with each other to sit down and talk which is why it's highly unlikely.

>>719726331
>it would be years, eons even before she died
Personally, I don't think it's going to be that long based on what we know about her parents and her state at the epilogue, more something happening to the people's lifetime.

If Lune was "real", she'd definitely ask herself this question, EVEN MORE since she knows everything going on.

Now, anything could happen. What if her real body die for some reasons? Like, writters attack number 2, the mansion falling apart, a cockroach eating her brain?
The canvas would be destroyed.

>>719726717
>I should be allowed to kill my living creations
Yeah he's a JRPG villain, we know.

>>719726538

When she escapes from real Renoir she basically clicks her fingers and wills Lune and Sciel back into existence. All she needed to do is be 1% reasonable with her dad and be like I wont go back in the canvas but please keep the canvas till I'm good enough to import mothers characters into my own new canvas.

>>719726404
So because someone isn't guaranteed to recover means you should take the abusive substance from them? And should instead just enable it because "well at least they seem happy" What kind of retarded logic is that?

>>719726417
Painters can see into the past. It's how Maelle dreamed about Verso slaughtering expedition 0

>>719725360
They're not real people, they can never be real, by mere virtue of being literal drawings. It doesn't matter if they're sentient or not, they are just fiction. Them being there or not has no bearing in the game's real world, just like a Sim, a Tamagochi or a characterin a book dying has no bearing in our real world.

Escapism is bad, painted people arent real, kill all darkners from Deltarune

>>719726796
>but please keep the canvas till I'm good enough to import mothers characters into my own new canvas.
And then her mother finds the canvas again, dives back in again, and shaves years off of everyones' lives dragging her out

Maelle was right. Maruki was right. Madara was right.

>>719726717
Alicia: (Did you see… Verso?)
Clea: You’re as bad as Aline. He’s not Verso. He’s a painted copy, built from our mother’s memories. You’d do well to remember that.
LMAO

>>719726925
Renoir disagrees. I think he has more information on the matter.

>>719726796
>clicks her fingers and wills Lune and Sciel back into existence
She has their Chroma. You can see her collect it as she flees from her father.
>import mothers characters
Why do you think this is possible?

>>719725982
>>719726796
You missed the part where she grabbed Lune and Sciel's chroma before escaping Lumiere, didn't you?
It happened so fast most people don't get why she couldn't resurrect Gustave also.
Maelle's a shit painter. She can't create anything. She could only put the scattered pieces back together.

>>719726757
Yeah that's the most rational solution, but we're in a highly emotional story based on grief and how people deal with it, so it's never happening. In the first place, if Alina was more "rational", she wouldn't even have created Lumiere and its people, so the game wouldn't even exist.

This is kinda why I prefer to not think of the painted people as real after act 3, because they can't even have this thought (I know it's also because it's a game, it's a scenario, yada yada, but it would still make sense for several characters to have these thoughts).

>>719727035
how did clea even understand what the mute retard was """"saying""""

>>719727063
Renoir is french, his opinion is irrelevant

>>719727032
Maruki was right, but Maelle was wrong.

>>719727035
>Taking Aline's word over Esquie's
I bet you don't return the shopping cart, either.

>>719727081
she recreated sciel's husband so you're wrong.

>>719726925
Anon is right that they are real it's just that they only exist as long as a painter soul is drawing their canvas. Renoir does see them as real but he'll pick his actual family over them any time.

>>719727261
>Renoir does see them as real but he'll pick his actual family over them any time.
Which is perfectly understandable. People don't want to admit that they'll kill the five people to save the one in this scenario though.

>>719727024

I mean I doubt Alicia would need very long before she would have the skill and chroma needed to recreate them in her own canvas. they just to hide Verso's canvas till then.

>>719727072

If she can perfectly recreate her mothers characters just from their chroma, with memories up to date, why couldn't she just take their chroma and import them into a new canvas?

>>719727081

Honestly I did but it's all just for continuity plot reasons, but I could have sworn she recreates other characters too. No recreating Gustave was just a obvious plot reason to not complicate things/for gameplay reasons. It's not a leap to say she can recreate things but it is a bit of a leap to say she's a shit painter.

>It's okay for Verso to be selfish and choose suicide
>But it's not okay for Alicia to be selfish and choose suicide

>>719727118
Magic is sort-of real in the real world

>>719727439
>Suicide for the sake of saving his sister
>Suicide for the sake of playing barbie dress up with hostages

>>719727346
Yep. Also Verso's ending isn't even killing them as such, just telling real Verso's soul it's ok to stop painting, them dying is a side effect because they can't exist on their own.

>>719727032
Maruki is literally changing reality. Maelle & Madara's solution is more like the pleasure cube.

>>719727439
It's ok. She'll commit suicide either way.

>>719727439

This game will only be continue to be talked about sometimes because of retarded takes like this.

>>719727501
The story is over, in-game and for the game itself
I'd say "Bravo Kojima" but Kojima couldn't come up with something that sensical

>>719727439
>>It's okay for Verso to be selfish and choose murder-suicide
FTFY

>>719727416
>why couldn't she just take their chroma and import them into a new canvas
Again, what makes you think this is possible?

>>719727439
Yes, most gamers are retards, we know. Unironically people caping for their preferred ending comes from their incessant need to have a "happy ending" for the game they enjoyed playing. It's literal cope.

I picked Maelle because i think she is cute. That's all.

>>719727593

Chroma comes from the painter, painters can paint. They can copy, paste and delete...There is literally no reason to think you couldn't create two identical paintings. If Verso was alive he could with time essentially create two copies of his canvas one at a time. Near parallel worlds. Real painters can pretty much already perfect replica's of old art to the point forgery detection is near impossible.

>>719727521
>Alicia joins the war with a fucked up body and shitty painting skills
>or she doesn't and goes into another painting
>or she kills herself
thanks Verso

>>719727496
>Suicide for the sake of saving his sister
She's not his sister. He already watched his sister commit suicide.

You know what's funny? Maelle's ending is ironically the "don't go on the expedition, wait for the gommage and make the most of the time you have until you die anyway" choice. Verso's ending is Maelle actually learning the expedition mindset and applying it to herself and her family: bravely facing the truth, moving forward and when one of us dies, we continue.

>>719727953
Fine
The person who his sister was wearing the identity of like a skin mask

>>719727806
It’s mentioned that Clea is the only one in the family skilled enough to alter a painted person, so there’s more to it than real life painting. Since the soul is involved in such a direct way, making a direct facsimile without the original components might be a doomed effort.

>>719726816
>What kind of retarded logic is that?
Verso's, as a matter of fact.
>You've got this incredible power to paint. You'll never have to suffer a life you don't want.

Which is why he proposes the idea to Maelle after he defeats her because his erasure along with the canvas is secure at this point. All that about "grief blinding" her? Suddenly no longer applies when he can die in peace. While he does care for Maelle, he is using his family's grief as a pretext to justify effacing the canvas. He lays his true intentions out to his father quite plainly: "I'm tired." That's it. Everything else is fluff.

That said, I care not about your logic or reasoning. Or more aptly, "feelings" in this scenario. Spare me your regurgitated drug analogies. Maelle and Aline are free to conduct their lives how they see fit. Their sense of continuation and the passage of time within the canvas is confirmed to be up to 100 years in only several weeks. The only one who truly suffers is Renoir as he watches their real bodies languish as they happily live their lives in the canvas. I do not fault him for trying to "save" them - most would if placed in his position. But that does not mean their choices to live life in the canvas are "incorrect." Especially Maelle who has little of value in the "real" world as a maimed mute cripple who cannot breathe without pain. This is not a black and white subject. Both decisions have their merits and drawbacks.

>>719727806
Yeah it's possible but not plausible. You would need to know every single detail about the painted beings you're copying, down to the emotions and memories they had. The only thing Alicia do is just paint her own version which will never be a perfect copy of the Verso's Canvas.

>>719720283 (OP)
>RPG
>Linear
>GAME OF THE FUCKING YEAR!!!!!
>JRPG (Final Fantasy XIII)
>Linear
>WORSE FF GAME EVER!!!
What????? No seriously explain yourselves motherfuckers. I thought Linear RPG = BAD
>b-b-but once you get to hour 50-
fuck off

>>719728407
FFXIII was far ahead of its time as it turns out.

>>719728265
>>719728292

I might agree more if there was some sort of argument that when Alicia recreated Lune/Sciel they weren't 100% the same person but honestly the plot is so shit and open for manipulation in the game I seriously don't see why it wouldn't be possible if not highly probable. Alicia could identify their chroma just in a sea of chroma dust so there's no way she wouldn't be able to analyze it on some level and learn its properties and import it/recreate it.

>>719727217
Sciel's husband drowned. If people who die from natural causes turn into normal corpses, then all she had to do was tell Esquie to fish him up and resurrect him. If they turn into petals like everybody else, then that's even easier.

>>719728407
Let's casually forget all side activities in all acts, or even the many paths inside each zones, but I guess you didn't play the game, so you wouldn't know.

>>719728614
It unironically was. It came out at a time when "people" actually WANTED ubislop tier open worlds, which is why it was hated. It's actually not any less linear than other FFs. 10 didn't have a world map either and that game is jerked off to high heavens.

>>719728671
>there's no way she wouldn't be able to analyze it on some level and learn its properties and import it/recreate it.
I can identify my friend out of a crowd of people which obviously means I can make a perfect clone of him.

>>719728779
>If people who die from natural causes turn into normal corpses
They don't. Only people killed by nevrons turn into corpses/statues. Any other death results in the body disappearing and their chroma dissipating

>>719728846

I hate E33 but c'mon now, it's still miles ahead of XIII. XIII is dogshit, E33 has decent gameplay and good level design at least, just a shit story.

>>719728873

Lol nice try, more like you created a sims character and understand all the values that made up that sims character to the point you can recreate that sims character in a completely new hard drive when playing The Sims.

>>719729102
A canvas is not a computer.

>>719725034
Still people of a sorts. Also, Esquie.

In the sequel, it will be revealed that the world outside the painting is just another canvas and Renoir is an old incel who's pretending he has a family.
Paintingception.

>>719727496
Since you consider it suicide, you also agree that it's genocide as well, I presume.

>>719728951
Nah he's right. FFXIII sadly came out at a time when everyone only cared about Open World shit and dude bro games. It was also at the time when the West as a whole begin to shit talk Japanese games for being "outdated". therefore the west took over during the 7th gen with white male protags and then in the 8th lgbt shit took over

>>719731631
>FFXIII sadly came out at a time when everyone only cared about Open World shit and dude bro games

Anon, linearity was in vogue when FFXIII came out. CoD and Uncharted popularised games that were basically just corridors with pretty setpieces, and XIII fit that to a t.

>>719728407
E33 has an overworld you can explore. It’s really only the individual locations that are just corridors with slight branches.

>>719720283 (OP)
He's one of the most tragic characters but the usual suspects absolutely hate him because they can't grasp the idea of sacrificing your life and your work for your family.

>>719732875
CoD was played for the Multiplayer. Uncharted wasn't even popular yet. U1 is pretty niche. U2 was the one that got big. Funny, I still have the GameInformer when Uncharted was reveal and it didn't even have a name yet

>>719727439
verso is already dead THOUGH

>>719733220
>CoD was played for the Multiplayer

Its single player campaign still influenced how other single player campaigns were designed in the era. It was very common to have games where the game was constantly holding your hand and pushing in one direction while stopping you from straying too far off the beaten path.

>>719729323

A computer only really needs electricity and its parts replaced once in a while.

The painted basically need a slowly suiciding human host to prop up their fiction and create all the variables needed to host their """free will""".

The painted are far inferior to a computer game character.

>>719733941
The painted appear to subsist on a soul-shard of the original painter, and the soul shard seems to like creating. The painted will exist without a painter currently observing the canvas, possibly. It’s effectively a semi-intelligent demiurge left in the painting.

>>719733621
>Its single player campaign still influenced how other single player campaigns were designed in the era.
I don't remember this. The only thing I remember CoD doing is making everyone else make their own FPS with multiplayer as a MUST HAVE. I can't even think of another FPS from 7th gen with the same Michael Bay explosion set pieces every two seconds.

>>719734286
It does not really matter how you attempt to explain it. He will double down on his dishonest reductionist spiel of undermining the sentience and autonomy of the lives in the canvas. Literally "hurdurr they aren't reel XD" Don't even bother.

>>719720283 (OP)
Correct.

The entire justification basically boils down to women are retarded.

-There is a real world out there and clearly these painters are addicted to jerking off to their own painting. They need to be unplugged.

-They can always create a new painting. They have no right to keep this one alive and in chaos because they incorrectly feel entitled to someone else's soul.

-Corso made the painting, it's his property.

-None of the people in the painting are alive. It's like deleting your Chat GPT account.

This is a good litmus test. If you didn't side with Corvo then you are retarded and likely prone to drug addiction and social media.

>>719733941
>The painted basically need a slowly suiciding human host
No it just needs a piece of an immortal soul (that's willingly given by the original painter btw), which it already had. The "human host" is just to speed up fixing the damage caused by other human hosts

>>719720283 (OP)
>>719720283 (OP)
>He did literally nothing wrong
He manipulated and deceived Expedition 33 into unknowingly inviting the destruction of their entire world and the death of everyone they know. He's an accessory to genocide.

>>719734927
He is trading a civilization of mortals for two to four gods.

>>719720283 (OP)
Is that Adam Driver?

>>719724320
low IQ

>>719734784
>None of the people in the painting are alive. It's like deleting your Chat GPT account.
So why does ChatGPT get a say as to what happens instead of a real human like Maelle?

>>719735265
because Maelle is fucking retarded and a child

>>719733941
It's kinda amazing how you keep jumping to wild conclusions.

>>719734286
>>719734758

They literally keep gommaging because their existences are unstable without their host. After you boot The Paintress out of the painting (You are all her creations) you all basically get shut down immediately after.

Not to mention real Verso's soul having to basically keep the upkeep in that singularity room. pVerso basically saved Alicia's life by not making her ruin her life propping him Verso's work. Even if they could survive a few years without a painter they would just get oblivion'd all over again.

It's all a dream people. Your time is better spent making sims characters and backing up the save data across 3 computers.

>>719722452
they all look the same
wtf is this shitty game

>>719735423

Yeah because this is such a world with hard rules. It's shown though that painted people can only exist within the limitations of the host so it's all just short term fixes. Verso ending is the only ending in the game for anyone with remotely common sense.

>>719735449
>They literally keep gommaging because their existences are unstable without their host.
OK, now I'm sure you didn't play the game. What a waste of time and bandwidth.

>>719722560
>most of them are already dead
>>719725034
>The "real human beings" you speak of died in Act 2.
Yes, precisely because of Verso and his actions. He provided crucial assistance to the expedition who he knew were unknowingly acting against their own interests and deliberately withheld this information in order to achieve his own goals. Alicia at least seemed to believe they might be able to reach a more amicable solution if Verso chose to be honest, she said so in her letter to Maelle. Lune also expresses this sentiment. Alicia though, unlike Lune, was at peace with her impending gommage, and was speaking from sincerity, not from anger or desperation.

>>719720283 (OP)
Yes, the dev have basically said Vereso's the good ending. If the game didn't make it obvious enough.

>>719735449
Renoir was causing the gommage, retard. In order to destroy the painting and try to force his wife out forever. Versoul will paint forever and without cease because it’s all he can do, and stopping will kill him. Also, with the exception of the painted Dessandres, everyone else is the creation of Verso.

>>719735604
>It's shown though that painted people can only exist within the limitations of the host
Where and how is this shown?

>>719735634

pRenoir and pVerso get to live forever because they are special to Aline, everyone else is basically just filler. Soon as she leaves, they do too. Maelle just didn't because she's actually just an Isekai protag who retained memories from her previous "REAL" life.

>>719735342
And Verso is a painting and is therefore not alive so his opinion is irrelevant. It's like telling ChatGPT what to do, no?

>>719735795
You genuinely didn’t understand the story, Aline isn’t sustaining the painting, Verso is. That is why Alicia is told to go find and stop Verso.

>>719735702

pRenoir was prolonging the gommage by killing all the expedition members and stopping them from killing Paintress which if she died, would kill everyone including himself.

Real Renoir was just trying to get his damn wife out of the painting and to burn the world to ashes.

>>719735265
The painting and it's inhabitants are chatgpt, verso is real as his soul was bound with the canvas. So he is entitled to say fuck you maelle stop being a brain rotten zoom zoom addicted to a fake reality.

>>719735876

Verso is sustaining the painting, not the painted. Even if everyone was to get gommaged (And they did when Paintress died), the painting would still exist and the cycle would go on, persumably with the characters that Verso actually painted like Esquie rather than Paintress ones.

>>719735973
Well yes, but each gommage was still Renoir’s will. If it wasn’t for him, the yearly gommage wouldn’t happen.

>>719735449
>They literally keep gommaging because their existences are unstable without their host. After you boot The Paintress out of the painting (You are all her creations) you all basically get shut down immediately after.
False. They were deleted after the Paintress was removed because that allowed Renoir to gommage them uncontested, not because her presence is somehow essential to sustaining them. It is in a way, but only in the sense that she is the one preventing Renoir from wiping out the entire canvas all at once (which he eventually does), hence why he is only able to erase her oldest creations once a year, hence why she paints the number onto the monolith as a warning for everybody. This is all explained explicitly and unambiguously by Clea and in Alicia's letter at the end of Act II.

>>719736087
>And they did when Paintress died
No.

>>719736087
Paintress did not create Lumiere or the people inside it. Verso sustains everything inside the painting, including the creations of every single other painter. If Verso stops, the Canvas dies and no other painter can enter it again. Verso is the lynchpin, and Verso is responsible for the people other than the painted Dessandres.

>>719736074
>So he is entitled to say fuck you maelle
Except he doesn't. Painted Verso, who you just admitted is ChatGPT, did. Therefore Maelle is correct by your own logic

>>719736340
But soul verso agrees with him.

>>719736443
So why does his soul need to be "stopped" from painting instead of stopping on his own?

>>719736517
He doesn't think he's allowed to, because he has the mind of a kid. He needs to be told it's ok to stop painting, but his mother and sister force him to.

>>719735973
>pRenoir was prolonging the gommage by killing all the expedition members and stopping them from killing Paintress which if she died, would kill everyone including himself.
Objectively incorrect, as evidenced, by the fact that multiple members of her painted family continue to exist once she is expelled, namely Verso and Alicia. Clea's nevrons also continue to exist with or without her presence. You're plain wrong on this mate, give up, you either missed a crucial line of dialogue or two or you've just completely misinterpreted something.

>>719736572
No one forces him to do anything. He paints alone in a room until ChatGPT tells him to stop

>>719736685
You find him questioning whether he can or should continue repeatedly.

>>719736685
>*literally has a sword pointed at him at the thought he may stop painting*
reminder he's eternally stuck at like 8-10 years old. He wants to stop but doesn't know if he can, because half of his family wants him to.

>>719736731
So he's unsure of what to do. That's not saying "fuck you" to anyone, clank. The humans can make that decision, not ChatGPT

Actually the ending is ambiguous and quite well written. It's all about perspective. Both choices have their merits and the bittersweet cinematography doesn't pick sides so it's up to the players to decide what is rig-ACK

>>719736962
He is literally a child witnessing a violent argument as to whether or not he should continue painting. The opinions of the painted hold as much weight as those of his family.

>>719736614

Uhh Maelle does get gommaged? That's why she reverts back to her true form of Alicia but becomes like a hybrid of both forms?

Verso also kind of gets gommaged but then doesn't. But I assumed that because he's a special painted like pRenoir who lives forever, it needed the power of "The Creator" to undo him.

>>719737052
>cinematography doesn't matter
>music doesn't matter
>skipping over the happy parts doesn't matter
>that lumiere is shit except the place where her brother has to play doesn't matter
>that everyone wears the same clothes doesn't matter
>that she didn't even bother giving gustave his arm back doesn't matter

>>719737080
>The opinions of the painted hold as much weight as those of his family.
According to the anon I responded to it's literally the opposite, hence why I challenged him in the first place

Just do one end, then reload the save and pick the other.

>>719737082
>Uhh Maelle does get gommaged?
I said Alicia, not Maelle. She is alive and well at the top of The Reacher long after The Paintress is ejected. It's clear you've missed half the game and are making stuff up.

>>719720283 (OP)
He bullshits everyone around him literally every time he opens his mouth.
Piano it is.

>>719720283 (OP)
He is evil and the antagonist of the game. People who pick him are without morality.

>>719737228
It IS implied that the little soul-shard is more tired than it is excited though. He seems to hate the post-fracture painting and repeatedly seems tired, for whatever that means for a soul shard. It might have the ability to eventually simply stop painting.

>>719735580
Renoir and Renoir 2 are the same person, essentially. Verso is the son of Renoir. Gustave is some sort of dream version of Verso.
Maelle = Alicia 2 and they're the siter of Clea, both daughters of Aline.

It makes sense they look the same.
If you thing Sciel and Lune look like the others you're most likely autistic.

>>719737353

Alicia is not a painted family? She's a real painter not a painted. Of course she wouldn't get gommaged? Where Maelle is a painted whose existence is tied to The Paintress.

That kind of proves my point? You need to make a bit more clear what your point is. Everyone but Alicia got gommaged because Alicia's existence is not tied to the painting or paintress.

>>719737613
Did you forget painted Alicia? The grey girl with the mask? She didn’t get gommaged, neither did painted Clea.

>>719736614
as soon as Aline is ejected, Renoir immediately escapes from Renoir's Drafts to finish off the Canvas by summoning a zillion Nevrons. the painted family isn't immediately gommaged because of Aline's plot jiggery-pokery but the end result was going to be the same. Renoir tells Verso to his face that he's going to obliterate him!

>>719737613
>Alicia is not a painted family?
The girl with the white hair and the mask. The one who Verso grew up with, who Aline painted and imbued with the real Alicia's injuries and grief. Go play the fucking game, I shouldn't be having to spoon feed you the story.

>>719725164
>Her dad's been in the painting for 67 years
Retard, holy shit.

>>719737707
Renoir doesn’t escape from anywhere, Renoir IS the curator. He travels with you the entire game, empowering the crew.

Aline
>Creates human life, they live good lives
Renoir
>Kills the humans
You
>She's so evil for creating humans, Renoir is such a good person

mfw

>>719737720
>>719737702

Jesus just say pAlicia, there's literally two Alicia's, Renoirs and such. You need to make the distinction.

Anyway regarding them that doesn't disprove anything, pRenoir/pVerso/pAlicia/pClea are immortal in that world and clearly different than the Lumerians. They needed special powers to essentially gommage them.

>>719720283 (OP)
>half of the main cast are literally soulless NPCs
This is objectively shit writing. Imagine spending the entire intro of the game talking about these people fighting for their world then forgetting the theme halfway through. The games really makes some of the worst writing mistakes imaginable.

>>719737928
How about Palicia and Penoir?

>>719737881
Aline
>destroys her family, fucks up her son's childhood world for a shitty larp
renoir
>tries to save his retarded wife
Yes, renoir is the hero, the people of lumiere shouldn't even exist.

>>719737881
>creates humans
Aline just sustains them. Verso created them and is an enslaved demiurge.

>>719738113

The family members are immortal as discussed? They are clearly operating in different rules than those which gommage with time.

>>719738142
Nope. Verso made gestrals and other creatures (Esquie etc.), but not a single human.

>>719738240
Nobody gommages with time, Renoir is causing the gommage. When the paintress is forced out, Renoir can apply his full power to instantly gommage everybody in the painting. The paintress only sustains life in opposition to Renoir, who is trying to destroy the entire painting to force is family to face reality.

>>719735047
Gods = Fags

>>719738301
Where exactly is your evidence of this? Pre-fracture, Gestrals and Humans lived side by side. Verso’s death caused the fight that caused fracture.

>>719738318

I hope this isn't true because otherwise Aline could have saved everyone if she would just stop being a bitch for 5 minutes and talk to her husband.

>>719738142
No Aline created the humans, Clea made the nevrons and Francois, Verso made the rest.

>>719738137
Aline did leave her family, that is pretty bad, but it's negligible compared to mass murdering hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

>>719738240
I meant for their names

>>719738458
No she couldn't? He will constinue killing them until she does what he wants her to do.

>>719733621
>Its single player campaign still influenced how other single player campaigns were designed in the era
Call of Duty campaigns were shitily copying the Half-Life games. Only a retarded zoomers would not know this.

>>719738390
Faceless Boy refers to them as Aline's paintings. The fracture was caused by Renoir's fight with Aline which happened some time after Verso's death. They lived side by side because Aline painted them into Verso's Canvas to cope with her grief.

>>719738458
Yes, in fact the painting would have been fone if the Dessandres weren’t a horrifically maladjusted family and Verso’s death didn’t break two of them. The fracture was just a big fucking family argument that got out of hand.

>>719738617
I thought that referred to the painted family, not all humans.

>>719738685
She made them all.
And the only one she made from her chroma was verso too.

>another dogshit astroturfed Exshitition 33 thread
>meanwhile actual GOTY wuchang will be ignored

i hate indians so much it's unreal

>>719737851
>Renoir doesn't escape from anywhere
ah, another youtube summary watcher.

>>719738748
All the painted immortals had the same protections. I still am not sure that Verso’s canvas had literally no people in it before Aline. The entire family worked inside the canvas for at least twenty years and Verso has probably painted a person or two if only for practice.

>>719738685.
He talks about Esquie, the Gestrals, the Grandis but somehow forgets the humans you think he created?

>>719720283 (OP)
>He did literally nothing wrong
He manipulated and lied to everyone to get the goal he wanted. Even if Maelle was wrong, it doesn't make him right

>>719737928
>pRenoir/pVerso/pAlicia/pClea are immortal in that world and clearly different than the Lumerians. They needed special powers to essentially gommage them.
Which disproves your point. They are Aline's creations and yet they continue with or without Aline's presence. It is literally stated at several points in the game that the reason the Lumierans all die is because Renoir gommaged them, not because they are intrinsically linked to Aline or because her presence is needed to sustain them.

>>719738916
Who do you think the giant faceless guy that follows you around is? The one you fight at the end of the game?
>>719738847
Wuchang ruined itself post-release, it’ll never be GOTanything.

>>719739010

I'm not saying you are lying, but can you please present that evidence so I can 100% say you were right, that explicitly says Renoir was gommaging them every like 20 years.

>>719739025
>Wuchang ruined itself post-release,
What do you mean?

>>719739123
He was gommaging them every single year. He was the “One who paints death”. He openly states his intention to destroy the painting repeatedly.

>>719737851
do you just sort of space out whenever there are words on the screen? maybe it would help if they put subway surfer over each dialogue bubble?

>>719738847
They are panicking because they know all organic discussion of E33 is already gone and it will be impossible to keep any threads up once Silksong and Silent Hill f come out.

>>719739170
Didn’t you hear? The chinese government stepped in and literally made the story nonsense. You no longer can be allowed to kill any historical figures, which completely subverts the core story about acceptance of death. Now you walk around bonking people on the head and saving the resurrected emperor.

>>719720283 (OP)
Yeah man, the name Clair Obscur invokes the theme that everything is either black or white.
Meaning there is an objective right and an objective wrong.

>>719739312

But why did it only effect people who had only been alive for an X number of years then? Like people in their early 30's?

>>719720283 (OP)
No, he's dead. Who cares what dead faggots think.

>>719739312
Anon who do you think the Curator is? An astral projection? After the end of the game, under the monolith is spoken of as foreboding. This is after Renoir is standing in Lumiere. Now who is sealed in the Monolith still?

>>719739484
Because that’s how Aline decided to conserve chroma.

>>719739579

Then why did Aline create pRenoir to basically kill all the expeditioners??

>>719739358
China has historical figures? lmao

>>719739650
Aline didn't create pRenour to kill expeditioners.

>>719739650
Because the expeditioners were being used by Renoir to try and kill Aline. She created pRenoir to keep her company in her delusion, pRenoir decided on his own to start assassinating expeditions because of how Expedition 0 went.

Seems like Verso supporters are far more likely to not have quite understood what happens in the story. Maybe you guys should replay it once again and really think about what is going on.

>>719727439
The literal devs themselves say that there is no good or bad ending, Verso himself literally says they're both hypocrites forcing their will on the other and retards still misunderstand. Media literacy is dead.

>>719727496
In Maelle's ending Verso's only thoughts are about himself. His ending is clearly a result of him being suicidal first and foremost. The saving Maelle aspect of it is just cope he tells himself to feel better about his suicidal tendencies.

>>719739789
A civilization of humans is sustained by a demiurge and a dysfunctional family fights to either save or destroy them. Either this dysfunctional family is forced out and the civilization killed, or some members of the family die in the delusion and the dysfunctional family likely kills the civilization anyway.

>>719739865
>verso's entire goal is suicide
This is retarded and I've only ever seen fags say it.

>>719739779

Yes she did, I remember them saying she painted an unflattering image of the real Renoir and that real Renoir is much nicer than the one she painted.

>>719739786

What? Why would she create an evil version of her husband to keep her company when the real version is already trying with all his might to eject her in a bitter stalemate?

>>719735692
>Yes, the dev have basically said [schizophrenic delusions]
Nothing of the sort was stated. It was in fact confirmed the team disagreed internally on which is the "correct" one - with neither Guillaume Broche nor Jennifer Svedberg-Yen declaring an individual preference. You can prefer Verso's ending without lying, Versofag. But being a liar is likely why he resonates with you. Checks out.

>>719739789
See things are they are, not how you want them to be

>>719740042
>Yes she did,
No she did not create pRenour to kill expeditioners.

>>719740037
I pointed out objective facts that support my argument that wouldn't make sense if it wasn't true. If he actually cared more about Maelle's life than his own suicidal desires he would not have said "I don't want this life" would he? No is the obvious answer.

>>719740042
Because she doesn’t want to be ejected, she wants to live in the fantasy world. pRenoir isn’t evil, he’s just very influenced by Aline’s worldview and wants to live forever with his complete family. The difference between Renoir and pRenoir is how widely their love is applied. Renoir loves his real family and values them above the painted, pRenoir loves both and wants to preserve the painted because Verso is there.

>>719740042
She made pRenoir and asshole cause she was pissed at him and painted him how she saw him in that moment.

>>719740209
When your delusional sister wants to kill herself to sustain you, “I don’t want to be sustained” is a good counterargument.

>>719739123
https://youtu.be/owxC9Wdmdo0?t=266

>>719740328
Sure but that's not what he said is it. His statement only talked about his personal situation and had nothing to do with Maelle's health.

>>719740448
Because Maelle’s health goes without saying. Or do you think Verso seeing Aline collapsed on the ground choking on paint is just a coincidence before he full commits to jumping to a place he doesn’t even know if he can survive in. If it was just about being suicidal, he would just walk up to Renoir and ask to be poofed.

>>719725982
>>719726208
>>719726471
She didn't recreate them, she put them back together. Why do you think the developers wasted all that time showing you how she collected the chroma of her party members and could only repaint those specific people? And no, making a clone is not the same. Ask painted Verso and Renoir. Another thing the game clearly and repeatedly showcased.
Pearls before swine.

>>719726796

enter

She can

reform them

because she collected their essence when they got gommaged.

idiot

Did they explain why Aline's Lumière had a lot of Asians and niggers, but Alicia's Lumière only has white people in it?

>>719740772
Alicia was redpilled through spending time with Verso who is racist.

>>719720283 (OP)

There is no good ending anon, they are all trying to deal with grief as best they can but don´t really have the tools to cope.

Maelle is wrong because Verso is right, she lied to Renoir. It´s not preserving Verso´s soul what really drives her but her own pain. She can´t deal with the consequences, she is sixteen and just can´t. Her mistakes costs her brother his life, cost her her face, her voice and even if Clea did not denounce her the guilt is eating her alive. She can´t forgive herself, she can´t take it back and she´s going to have to carry that as long as she lives. She choose a world on which she is loved, everyone owe her their lives and everything is as she wills it even though deep down she understands the perfection of that world is not going to make her happy.

Verso is wrong because, as Maelle his motives are egotistic. He tells himself that, as Verso, he needs to save Maelle and his mother. He paints it (pun intended) as a noble sacrifice but the truth is that he can´t deal with the knowledge of not being the real Verso. The people he loves are not his family, they belong to different worlds and he´ll never be the real thing. He is unable to grow up and to actually live, among the painted ones he´s probably the only one that doesn´t feel alive. He learned nothing from his journey and just wants to die.

Renoir is wrong because he can see his family crumbling around him and is unable to do anything about it. Every man´s nightmare. True enough his actions are the most sane and rational but his motives are just as impure as those of his children. He just doesn´t want to survive them all, he feels completely and utterly alone and needs the women to get their shit together to not have to deal with everything by himself.

>>719720283 (OP)
His big mistake was letting Gustave die. If he was alive he would have been the third option that led to the ending where everyone is happy.

>>719740209
If his entire goal was suicide he'd have supported Renoir. He seems to be thinking of himself as more than just a painting with all his talks to Monoco, Esquie, & Sciel and at the time he believes his mother is free and Alicia will leave of her own will once Renoir is out. However, all this falls apart when Aline returns and Alicia shows she has no intention of leaving. He even talks of seeing Julie again, he had plans on living a new life until he saw first hand the cost of that life. His sister and mother.

>>719740848
I think Verso having egotistical reasons to also do what he thinks is right goes without saying, and while he is suicidal I think people overstress just how purely selfish he is. Painted Ciel killed herself, painted Alicia killed herself, it’s as easy as abandoning everyone to walk to Renoir and plead for death. There’s no way Alicia is a better painter then Renoir. Verso seems to also be thinking of Versoul.

>>719740927
He even says the only reason he supported Maelle in fighting against Renoir was out of a final courtesy for them. He was always planning on doing the same thing Renoir was going to do anyway so indirectly he DID support Renoir.

>>719740772
>Aline the painters guild demands that we put negroes into our works

>>719740850
>led to the ending where everyone is happy.
Except this is impossible. Maelle doesn't want to leave the canvas and return to the reality where her mother hates her and she can barely breathe. And Verso is tired of living and being immortal just for the sake of Maelle. They represent both extremes and a compromise between them is impossible

>>719739865
Didnt the director said that Verso's was the good ending?

Gustave was based, he could have talked sense into everyone, hacked the matrix, and fix everything forever literally ever.
The real story is about the loss of a genius and its consequences for eternity.

>>719740850
I still think my biggest criticism of E33 is that they killed off Gustave too quickly and he quickly becomes irrelevant once you get to act 3 where Maelle basically entirely forgets about his existence. They tried to set Maelle up having lived exactly 16 years both inside and outside the painting to show that both are equally valid but at the end of the game she doesn't give a single fuck about Gustave and seems to basically only care about Verso.

>>719741480
Why does that matter? And no.

>>719741480
No he literally said that people who think it's the good ending "didn't get the game".

>>719741567
Gustave is another soul for Maelle to save, it’s part of her savior complex by the end.

>>719727217
she controls all the chroma in the painting at that point. she couldn't resurrect gustave before because renoir controlled almost all of the chroma instead.

>>719740927
>If his entire goal was suicide he'd have supported Renoir.
He didn't support Renoir because he knew Maelle would come out on top, and he wouldn't be in the position to manipulate or persuade her if he had sided against her. He was betting on the winning team with a view to manipulate them to his own ends at the end. I don't believe for one second he sincerely supported Maelle's mission, given that every other time he opens his mouth it's to lie.

>>719741567
>They tried to set Maelle up having lived exactly 16 years both inside and outside the painting to show that both are equally valid but at the end of the game she doesn't give a single fuck about Gustave
literally her final relationship event is about her confronting verso over whether he could have saved gustave or not. the only reason she forgives verso if he tells the truth is because she's already decided she's going to bring gustave back. act 2 maelle would have tried to kill him right there.

>>719741567
Would you have introduced Verso around the same time or have him come in later? Its an exaggeration to say she forgets about him entirely. Her final 1on1 conversation is about Gustave, she revives him the second she can, and lives with him in her perfect world. I do agree there should have been a line or two from her showing more excitement about the prospect of reviving him. Maybe something during the very end when she's pleading with him about wanting to see Gustave. I think that would have been a good part because it also guilt trips the player.

>>719742176
Maelle is the weakest painter in the family. Without him, her expedition would have been utterly doomed and she would have been killed and forced out of the painting, wherein he could have died freely.

>>719742176
Then why did he flip out over PAlicia being erased? Seems like had he approached Renoir and said "open it, I'll do it" he would have gotten what he wanted if his goal is what you say. Instead, he's all for living a new life until he sees that life will cost the lives of his sister, mother, and by extension father and other sister.

>>719741480
No, he was just annoyed that people consistently said it was the bad ending.
Obviously he wanted it to be a point of discussion.

>>719742879
>Then why did he flip out over PAlicia being erased?
You don't get upset when your teammate ks's you?

>>719720283 (OP)
Yeah, but I still sided with Maelle because you know...

>>719744432
>but I still sided with Maelle because you know...
Go on.

>>719720283 (OP)
is this game actually worth playing or is it just overhyped normie slop?

>>719741598
It definitely matters.

>>719720283 (OP)
It's funny. When I was a wee lad playing FFTA, I hated Marche. Now I'm in my thirties, and I find myself agreeing with Verso's choice completely.

>>719745102
It's weebslop but without the anime artstyle nor the pantyshots.

>>719745102
It's the best game made this year that I played, and I'm a big snob. The gameplay is pretty simple and ultimately a memorization game, but it's well animated and fun. The game breaks if you really try to break it, so avoid doing that.

>>719745183
I just checked and it doesn't.

>>719725136
>ahh

>>719745201
I played FFTA but I don't remember, is there even a downside for them getting stuck in the world (was that a book?).
Little bro was a king, but in a wheelchair in the real world, it's not like he could do like Alicia by painting another world.
I feel like there were more reasons for them to stay in the book. No more Viera

>>719720283 (OP)
>He did literally nothing wrong
He killes Guschad just because he knew that Lune and Sciel would never fuck his lying nigga ass with a real man around.

>>719745656
Yup, and I think that's the deciding factor for me - Ivalice was no longer a fantasy, it BECAME reality. Staying there isn't running away from your problems because they ARE your real problems. On the other hand, choosing to stay in the canvas as the outside world continues and your body rots away is the very definition of escapism. It's like assisted suicide... I can very much understand Mewt's and Alicia's viewpoints, however.

>>719746491
>>719745656
Also bunnygirls. Very important factor.

>>719739170
Game had the player character fighting not only monsters but also several Ming dynasty-aligned human enemies/bosses and this caused chink players to have a meltdown (apparently they expected Manchu/Qing enemies instead of Han and it really made them seethe) so the devs panicked and made patch that censored the game in the weirdest way: the mc sexy outfits or her sweaty cleavage aren't modified but some specific bosses can't be killed anymore, they just go "ahaha this fight to the death was actually just a test, you may pass lol". And this absolutely ruin the story, its theme can be resumed as "you should let go of the dead" and the censorship completely shit on that by keeping some characters that should be dead alive.
This also fuck with the difficulty since all the Ming mobs in one level stop being hostile. Only way to decently play is to rollback to an earlier patch.

>>719725424
Yeah that was Verso, not painted Verso.

>>719746491
Yeah, different circumstances.
Didn't Mewt transform his old bullies into monsters? It's coming back to me a bit.
Fuck, I'm still pissed at the game 20 years later because I somehow missed something to unlock Judge, and I could never finish the 300 missions...

>>719720283 (OP)
I don't know who's that and i'm not going to read the posts for spoilers, one thing is clear, the OST slap hard
https://youtu.be/7BOH9LD1pdM?feature=shared

There are way too many people here that would unironically fall for Verso's bullshit as hard as Lune did. I cannot even fathom the level of existential cuckery she must have felt in this moment.

>>719720965
every single time

>>719746930
>after an entire life of sexless study
>I fall for one prettyboy dick and he ends the fucking world

>>719746930
Skill issue on her part. I could've successfully dicked the suicidal tendencies out of him

>>719746930
Verso is right and stuff but ending is worth it for this moment alone.

>>719720283 (OP)
He killed thousands.

>>719720283 (OP)
>>719720768
>>719720965
>>719722128
>>719722423
>>719722495
>>719723261
>>719724609
Siding with Verso shows that you are easily manipulated and lack critical reasoning ability.

The endings are a social experiment. "If we present the bad ending where the villain wins and everyone dies as cute and bittersweet, and the good ending where the villain loses and everyone lives happily ever after as unnerving and dissonant, how many people can we fool into picking the bad ending and feeling morally justified about it?"

It's not a surprise that /v/ is full of Verso-siders, since so much of /v/ is made up of stunted, sheep-like people who would follow a nazi leader into genocide at the blink of an eye.

>>719746957
That's not unexpected coming from him. His first video talking about how he fell in love with the game, where he tried to explain the plot and gameplay: everything was wrong. At some point I was wondering if we even played the same game.

>>719747160
Anon enslasvign a demiurge to power your extended suicide isn't typically seen as a good thing. Once Alicia is a corpse, if Verso doesn't stop painting out of despair, then his family certainly will end the painting.

>>719747012
To be fair, he has really pretty hair and can play the piano

>>719747096
Not even Esquie could. Are you saying your dick game is better than Esquie's?

>>719723097
>she could have a change of mind

>>719747269
"Genocide later" is still better than "genocide now". There's no ifs or buts about it. The only way someone would side with Verso is if they have no true concept of right and wrong, and would choose the life of one person over the lives of thousands just based on their feefees.

And the peak irony is that the one person they "save" will go on to live an absolutely horrible life of being crippled, disfigured and mute, and never know happiness again. She's the one who would have reason to yearn for death, unlike Verso who's living a full life in peak physical shape with several lifelong friends who love him and women throwing themselves at him at every turn.

It's GOTY and you can't do anything about it.

>>719747538
It's genocide+1 god

>>719747269
It's funny how Aliciafags conveniently forget this kind of stuff.
Is she really helping the people by staying inside the painting? It's as good as gone once she's dead.
Hating on Verso because he doesn't tell them the truth? But they do love Monoco and Esquie, who both knows everything.

You can be happy that Alicia gets her "good" ending, but they should stop pretending they care about the world and people.

>>719747413
Yes. Give me 20 seconds and he'll see life's worth living

>>719747269
Verso looks pretty happy to me.

>>719747105
>Can't even look at her
What a coward he turned out to be.

>>719747226
what did he say about the plot

>>719747648
Now wait until Maelle has a seizure and fucking dies in the middle of the painting.

>>719720283 (OP)
Yes

>>719747648
>pretending you don't know that's one of Gustave's apprentices you've seen multiple times in the game
poor bait

>>719747605
>they do love Monoco and Esquie, who both knows everything.
To be fair, one is the personification of Verso's dog and the other one is Verso's imaginary friend. They are never going to go against painted Verso's orders or wishes.

>>719747605
Do you actually think Renoir is going to destroy that last piece of Verso's and her (assuming Alicia dies in the canvas) soul out of spite?

>>719747829
It's straight up a different boy

>>719747940
No, it isn't out of spite, that painting is a fucking mire that will kill even more family. Do you really think the mother is going to recover if her second child fucking kills herself in that same painting?

>>719720283 (OP)
>He did literally nothing wrong
Indeed. I've never even watched the Maelle reason, why bother with the bad ending?

>>719747875
I'm not denying that, but they are complicit to his plot, to his goal, helping him for years.
Yet nobody hates them like Verso, not even a little bit.

>>719748057
>if her second child fucking kills herself in that same painting?
She hates that child so it's all good

>>719748118
Yes, she's very emotionally mature and stable. She definitely won't become a mass of despair again.

>>719747269
>Once Alicia is a corpse, if Verso doesn't stop painting out of despair, then his family certainly will end the painting.
And how many generations away is that? Renoir has been inside the painting for 67 years, that's three generations at least, and we have no idea how much longer Aline has been in there before he entered. I'd wager significantly longer since he himself seems largely unaffected by the 67 years he's spent in there, and yet he was concerned enough about her health at the time to have entered. You could be looking at hundreds of years. Does the fact that our physical universe will eventually end, or at least become uninhabitable to life, mean that murder is morally negligible? These arguments from nihilism just don't work.

>>719747875
Esquie was pretty clear he doesnt consider pVerso the real Verso. Similar but different.
Now Moroco i gotta wonder, he actually ask in a chat with verso if his loyalty is real or just his programming and you get to aswer yes or no.

>>719747940
I believe Renoir would, he has an angry side to him, and seeing his dead daughter would push him to the edge, not wanting it to break his already broken family even more.
Clea definitely also would for other reasons, like cleaning a stain.

>>719747875
They both perfectly make the distinction between the real and painted Versos and are at most bound to the first (and even that is doubtful, painted Verso is a creature of Aline yet goes against her). Just happens that the real and painted Verso had the same idea here.

>nothing
You didn't play the game

>>719748240
Is god literally killing himself and preventing creation of more universes to artificially sustain this one?

>>719748240
>It's okay because they get to live 50 more years
That's what makes you a retard. Listen, if you know your end is coming, you'd do everything to avoid it. Sucking up to Alicia will not work.
That's what people are saying, that's why it's always laughable to see Aliciafags talking about "muh people's life".

She's not their savior. She's another ticking bomb, the other last tragedy triggering the end of the world.

>>719748274
You might be right about Clea assuming she even feels guilty about sending her in, but Renoir himself let her go despite knowing she was lying. I could see him repeating the gommage in a few days but if he actually respects her choice to die in there than not a chance.

>>719748463
It becomes a tomb, why would he not put to rest the tombstones of two of his children?

>>719747829
>>719748050
The boy in Maelle's ending has very similar clothing to the fading boy. That said, that boy looks way chinkier than the apprentice or how a child Verso would look

>>719747605
>Is she really helping the people by staying inside the painting? It's as good as gone once she's dead.
>Life is only valuable as long as it lasts forever

>>719748563
He said he didn't even want to destroy the canvas the first time around. Unless Aline (or even Clea LMAO) start clinging to it again I doubt it.

>>719748660
It lasted forever before the family fucked around. Now it's on borrowed time of borrowed time and only the sacrifice of more gods can sustain it for a little while longer.

>>719729437
Esquie supported pVerso. "Maman" is the worrd.

>>719748753
Aline will absolutely cling to it again unless she has emotionally developed from the loss of Verso. This is worse than Verso's tragic death, this is her child choosing to die rather than even try to live.

>>719748753
Yeah that's true, but he also knows the canvas is an addiction for Aline, and that it is hosting the remnants of Verso's soul, a kid who hated painting, stuck painting forever.

Is that a gamble you'd take if you were Lune? I don't think so.

>>719748660
Are you a boomer? That's literally the boomers philosophy
>who cares what happens in 50 years from now on, I'll be dead

>>719748657
I assume it is the faded boy. Verso takes his hand to walk off into oblivion, while Maelle takes his hand in hers during the seating at the opera house.

>>719736259
>Paintress did not create Lumiere or the people inside it
Yes she did. Verso made the canvas, clea made most of the nevrons, renoir made the axons/axon nevrons, aline made lumiere and the humans

>>719736517
Because he didn't find the courage to stop painting and pursue music until he was older, after he painted the canvas.

>>719741539
>best post went by ignored
Classic /v/

>>719737570
>Gustave is some sort of dream version of Verso.
No he's not
> they look the same.
No they don't

>>719742225
That's because Maelle and Alicia are two completely different person you retard.

>>719741539
He never got to meet her :(

>>719747269
Its also hilarious how maellenigs literally can't see the similarities between the Lich King and Malicia. She unironically was commanding an undead army to defeat the hero (renoir), but since the cutscene has hype music and the zombies had cute sparklings nobody bated an eye of it. Malicia is evil incarnated.

>>719749442
We see Aline teaching a child Verso how to play the piano in the monolith

>>719747481
still could, when she notices the ugly paint rot on here eyes shed freak out and leave for a while

>>719748050
literally the same hair. Let me guess, you thought the dress was white and gold instead of black and blue?

>>719748291
They are still very much drawn and bound to p. Verso just by him looking and acting the same as Verso

>>719750020
you must be faceblind anon

>>719747875
Verso is Verso's cousin.

They both recognize he's not their Verso, but because they agree with him, they help him out.

>>719749946
And Clea played harp, painting was still her main focus in life. Verso didn't have the balls to tell his parents "I'm not going to be a painter" until he was older.

>>719747875
They're both bound to Verso's soul, not painted Verso.

Because Verso's soul is in pain, so are they, this is their motivation to help painted Verso out.

>>719749915
>hero
He's a fucking retard who can't grieve properly without clinging to his wife. And it's ironic you mention an army of corpses.

>>719750202
White and gold fags used that exact same line btw.

>>719748050
>posts two pictures of the same boy
same hair chin nose eyes cheeks ears. if it's not the apprentice, then it's not meant to be anyone, since that boy's model is also used several times in the intro segment while you walk around Lumiere, but to suggest it's specifically someone else is silly.

>>719750302
>who can't grieve properly without clinging to his wife
That's what a real man should do. Why else would you marry her?

>>719720454
You mean white enough

>>719750302
He doesn't want his wife to kill herself, which is sensible. It's hard to grieve when you keep being handed more corpses of family members.

>>719750302
>He's a fucking retard who can't grieve properly without clinging to his wife.
Saving aline isn't about grieving. Aline is killing herself, and he's going to stop it. The canvas is killing her. That is a fact.

>>719750302
What the fuck are you talking about? He isn't grieving, he's trying to save his wife from killing himself. You've autism if you literally can't understand that he's a MAN, and men don't work on feelings but on objectives. He doesn't have time to grief while his family is still in danger.

>>719750408
>>719750462
>>719750465
look at the post you're replying to, a lot of people who discuss this game have problems with their own family and it manifests with posts dripping with seething, nonsensical rage toward verso and renoir

>>719750302
Renoir just wanted to uncuck himself and have Aline stop fucking his painted clone who probably got drawn with a bigger schlong

>>719750348
It's so fucking funny how many faceblind autists here are in these threads.

>>719750673
Actually, considering she was mad at him at the time, she probably gave him a micropenis.

>>719750748
>that indian in the other thread who said they looked the same
fucking kek

>>719750805
>the madness caused by a constantly repainted penis

>>719750861
>the sound of renoir approaching is not his cane, but his rock hard floor length cock

>>719722606
>open video
>close video

>>719750748
Verstave is going to haunt my fucking dreams

>>719750553
That's funny, reading what you said, it's just like Alicia's dialogue with Renoir after the last fight
>Renoir speaking about his experience and knowledge in staying inside paintings
>Alicia: I know precisely what's at stake! You want control, you want to feel like you're doing something
>Proceeds to lie to her dad "yeah I'll be back for christmas"

>you have to go back to the real world, and live as a cripple with your insane and dysfunctional parents for the next ten or twenty years, before they die, and we have to kill an entire world in the process
Why?

>>719750748
>Wild VERSO appeared
>Go, DITTO!
>DITTO used TRANSFORM

>>719751108
Because the entire world is dying no matter what, it[s just a matter of whether or not the cripple is going with it.

>>719750929
>Alicia... we are leaving

>>719751108
Nobody was saying that. She can cope in her paintings until she dies, nobody cares. Just release your little brother's soul for fucks sake, you evil piece of shit. Stop keeping someone alive in a coma and just end his fucking misery. You have the power to play dollhouse anywhere you want, you don't need to keep him alive for your insanity.

>>719751108
>insane and dysfunctional
they're grieving, and will eventually stop grieving assuming they don't suddenly get handed a second dead child.

>>719751306
play the piano.

>>719751108
if her parents are insane, that makes alicia insane too, since she's just doing the same as her mom

>>719751108
If you dislike Aline you dislike Maelle, they are 1:1 copies of each other.

>>719751418
They're a toxic family unit. She's at least happy with her fake friends.

>>719751682
They are not toxic, they are grieving. Learn the difference buddy.

>NO JUST LET ADDICTS DO DRUGS UNTIL IT KILLS THEM
>HELPING THEM IS EVIL, YOU CANT TELL THEM TO NOT KILL THEMSELVES
This is essentially Maellefags arguments

>>719751860
You have to remember you're on /v/

/v/ unironically worshipped Sword Art Online for its hot take on going into a virtual world and dying there instead of IRL.

>>719751860
Honestly, why not? If they have nothing else, they can at least go out on their own terms.
People don't have answers to stuff like this because "drugs bad".

>>719751918
kek

>>719751967
t. Druggie

>>719751918
me on the right

>>719751860
Seems like a parenting issue if they let their children grow up doing drugs

>>719752003
nope. Very much clean. To the point that I kind of regret it, because a life of sobriety has not brought me joy.

>>719751967
>Honestly, why not?
From Renoir's pov? Because she's my daughter and I'm not letting her kill herself.
>have nothing else
She has a family
>her family hates her/her family is shit
You're projecting your own problems onto them.

>>719751967
>go out on their own terms
Its not really their terms since they are doing it in your house essentially.

Truth is if they had to do it in their own paintings they would probably just get sober.
Which is that ending, mom/sister just having to move on.

>>719752084
>he STILL hasn't beat the ravings
Poor decision making led you down the junkie path in the first place

>>719752093
She has to live in the real world as a voiceless cripple. She's never having any kind of good life.

>>719752165
Just seems like everyone who takes drugs is happier than I am. Taking drugs usually leads to experiences and friends. I'm here on 4chan. Who really won, in the end?

>>719752176
Why doesnt she paint her own paradise then?
Nothing stopping her.

Shes not refusing to leave because shes crippled, she could be uncrippled in any painting.
Shes refusing to leave because her brothers soul is there

>>719751730
I can understand a lot of Aline's choices like making a new Renoir that enables her bullshit or giving her Clea a gigaChad bf to save her from becoming a spinster but keeping Alicia as a permanently scarred and mute burn victim, and forcing her to wear a mask was a dick move

>>719752176
She's an exceptionally wealthy voiceless cripple. She can go find a middle class man that looks like hey brother and get stretched if she really needs it.

>>719752176
She's crippled mute and scarred. She's also a rich wizard. She'll have plenty of hardships and opportunities that others wouldn't. People live with less. My recommendation is that you quit being a faggot.

Verso is a faggot and a liar

>>719752176
>She has
she doesn't, just paint another world

Stop pretending she's forced to live as Alicia for the rest of her life just because the drawing of a little boy gets torn apart.

Aline has hundreds of canvases, and so does renoir. Alicia can make her own and if she can't, she has over 50 years of REAL LIFE to learn that fucking skill.

How many weeks until Alicia hanged herself in the Verso ending do you think?

>>719747160
>Valuing reality and your family over a escapist fantasy makes you easily manipulated
You're not old enough to post here.

>>719752295
Lune you died. Get over it

>>719752251
Get off 4chan if it makes you sad retard lmao. Exercise eat healthy and practice a hobby that interests you, the building blocks of peace are fucking simple.

>>719752295
Yea but hes also correct its cruel to force him to live in eternal agony rather than having his family fuck off.

He wouldnt NEED to erase the painting if they would just all go away

>>719752295
Verso splits mountains of women in half and is also a liar (stat bonus for the first)

>>719752251
>Just seems like everyone who takes drugs is happier
lol

>>719752253
>Shes refusing to leave because her brothers soul is there
Does she even care about that? I wouldn't make the last part of my deceased family's soul suffer something they hate for all eternity., that's literally the description of hell. And he even sacrificed himself to save her.
She wants THIS life because people sees her as Maelle, and not Alicia. But she's Alicia.

Why would a family of painters that hate writers name their child Verso? That a writing term

>>719752373
If I leave 4chan all I have is the rest of the internet where people don't talk to me, or I can engage with some media, or look at a wall. I'm not here because I like it.

>>719752476
>Does she even care about that?
Yes. Not to protect it, but to delude herself into feeling like he's still alive and she didn't kill him. Same as Aline but more motivated.