Thread 719902465

How do we fix the RTS genre?

What is there to fix?

more fairies

.

>>719903002
Sure. Cute RTSes is a very unexplored niche.

>>719903207
>JUST BUFF THEM ALREADY

>>719902465 (OP)
Retvrn to Tradition of being half city builders half SupCom like games and remove the concept of hero units.

RTS wasn't made for sweaty Esports, it was made for me to chill behind 30 layers of walls with my English Longbows.

Turn based, you know it's the solution. The only way to incorporate strategy into the game. You don't want to play RTS, that's only for smashing armies together so no need to half ass pretend to have strategy like in all the RTS games.

>>719905176
agreed hero units ruined rts and td games.

>>719903207
>>719904637
yes. they need a buff.

>>719902465 (OP)
automate the economy

Make the single-player worth the price. APM sweaters ruined the entire genre.

>>719903002
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egxzPAywNEs

>>719903992
soulless

>>719902465 (OP)
go watch a pro game of aoe2 and telll me where it looks fun

more slow burn turtlekino armyludo logistics economizing and corny live action FMVs, less gookclick

>>719905324
this
I still need to beat Dawn of the Dukes and the historical battles

We really need a new WB with even more races and units.

>>719903992
/thread

>>719905854
>black forest
>map size: gigantic
>3 opponents
Turtle mode king

>>719905791
this, gookclicking killed rts

like dis

>>719905324
Yup. People point to SC2's multiplayer all the time, yet forget its assload of singleplayer campaign content on top of a good editor suite to make/mod your own campaigns.
Same can be said for AoE2; the factions aren't quite as distinct, but there's a fuckload of scenarios to do. The majority of RTS enjoyers play singleplayer most of the time.

>>719902465 (OP)
>like 30+ RTS games releasing in the next 1-2 years
>Tons of styles, innovations and takes on the genre be it PvE or PvP
>Old games being remastered faithfully
>Broodwar still popping the fuck off 25 years later

What needs fixing exactly? Be you casual or be you hardcore, realize we are in a golden age for RTS games.

>>719906258
>>like 30+ RTS games releasing in the next 1-2 years
name 5 promising ones

>>719905176
Agreed. If I can't make an impenetrable fortress of Tesla Coils or Prism Towers, I don't want to play.

>>719903992
last time i played that, i tried to make a seige mode.
>set limit timer
>barely get a few buildings setup, the resource management is a bad joke
>by the time i built a few units and the timer went down, the enemy had a large army ready
>they send them in a single straight line towards my base
>they phase through the giant cliff and walled mountains
>trash my base while my units are out of position on the slope
Piece of shit game, it'll always be shit. The Scouring is a better game.

>>719906417
skill issue

>>719906335
See
>Old games being remastered faithfully

>>719905176
>half SupCom like games and remove the concept of hero units.
Tell me anon what is your commander if not a hero unit?

>>719906553
its objectively inferior to even Supcom2 (which i like alot).

DOW:DE gives me hope that Sega will one day remaster the Supcom games, especially 2, so i can play them without them crashing from lack of ram.

>>719906335
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2587620/Dinolords/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1605850/ZeroSpace/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1486920/Tempest_Rising/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1328990/Godsworn/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1426450/Age_of_Darkness_Final_Stand/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/3338950/The_Scouring/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2638690/Empire_Eternal/

Two of these games already released so I included 2 more :)

>>719903002
For me it's spamming F1 as a necromancer to
>ARISE
>ARISE
>ARISE
>ARISE FROM THE EARTH

>>719906149
dis nuts

>>719903002
>>719907434
so many cool units

>>719902465 (OP)
Go back on making cool single player campaigns and forget fucking esports

>>719906827
godsworn looks pretty good, thanks anon

>>719907871
its two people developing the game but progress has been steady. Its a goodie for sure.

>>719907434
or spamming upgrade on one skeleton to
>i am stronger
>i am muuuch stronger
>I AM INVINIBLEEEE

>>719906827
Already had tempest espresso by on my wishlist but added age of darkness and empire eternal as well, thanks anon!

My life long wish to have another of me to play RTS with.

Man, I need to play Red Alert again.

>>719908550
>play SupCom MP for the first time with a buddy
>had a time of my life
>"Nah, man, I don't want to spend a lot of time learning another game"
Fucking normies, I swear

I always thought that somebody somewhere would do a rts mmo where guilds / factions / countries territories were decided on pvp and pve matches with all the rewards being purely cosmetic to keep the balance.

speed it up
add heroes with lots of skills you can hotkey
lose units
lose bases

oh wait

>>719905598
>go watch a pro game of aoe2
Why would anyone do that?

>>719908934
To make a point on 4chan.

the savior of the RTS gente!

We need a singleplayer only RTS with a campaign where your choices matter, your units carry over from mission to mission, different mission paths to choose from etc.

if you like solo rts why not just play city builders, 4x or gsg? singleplayer rts is like playing singleplayer fighting games

>>719909543
Homeworld can get you 1 out of 3 of those requests you made. Don't touch the 3rd game though. It's shit.

Have a map editor bare minimum, letting people make their own minigames, maps, etc. in a decent game will make it last way longer.

>>719909637
Do 80 to 90% of fighting game players only play single player?

>>719906827
I thought you were full of shit, but they do actually exist.

>>719909637
Getting into an rts is a little easier I find, but I really enjoy those genres anyway.

>>719902465 (OP)
>fix
No need. I want more sidegrade games for increased variety. Think Battle Realms. Perimeter, Dragonshard, etc.

>>719909637
>singleplayer rts is like playing singleplayer fighting games
more fun?

>>719902465 (OP)
more coop

>>719906827
>Tempest Rising

I've been playing that. It's a little too faithful a rendition of Command and Conquer that it just made me want to play CnC 3 again. Because it feels the most like that one in particular, with the serial numbers filed off. No 3rd faction though sadly, even though they do show up in the campaign. Also no subfactions either, so it still feels very bare bones, but the campaign is long, reasonably hard, and has some replayability thanks to custom modifiers you can equip to improve units or your economy.

>>719906697
My commander is very weak, dies nerely instantly to boolet but he is beyond vital to the success of the campaign so the mission instantly fails if he dies.
If I'm a unit on the field then it's an escort mission. But I'm also controlling all the units so my contributions exceed everyone else.

Make every unit absolutely lethal. Get rid of this damage-sponge nonsense: it puts too much control over pacing in the hands of the gameplay designer and less in the hands of the player.

I recommend They are Billions

Just stay away from multiplayer RTS slop. This is how you save the genre.

>>719906827
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2638690/Empire_Eternal/
Wishlisted.

>>719910373
>They are Billions

>>719910373
?
Multiplayer is literally what keep games alive

I wish I had played more WC3 on battlenet. I took it for granted that it would always be there and blizzard wouldn't deliberately destroy the game.

>>719909637
>singleplayer rts is like playing singleplayer fighting games
For me it was Tekken 3 and 5

>>719906827
dank

>>719908934
exactly

>>719910535
It literally brought them to a near extinction.

>>719910118
>play UA with the hardcore setting on
>HP dropped by 125% across the board
>a stray grenade or a wild strafing run is enough to oneshot entire battalions with no survivors
>artillery makes any form of large scale infantry maneuvers impossible to do without tying everyone to their own APCs

>>719902465 (OP)
We need more clicks per planck seconds.

let's talk about how rts games with harvester units are superior to other types. first they improve the game by making you choose between economic and military units. a game with control point based economy like company of heroes doesn't have the boom vs rush dynamic that a game with harvesters does. secondly they force you to go out onto the map to obtain resources. games like total annihilation where you can build 100 metal income buildings in the corner of your base don't have this kind of impetus and have a much more stale metagame as a result. all of the best rts games have harvester units. it's ok if you disagree, but you are wrong.

wololo

>>719911039
I especially like Battle Realms where your harvester peasant also doubles also raw recruit for military units. So you're constantly balancing economy vs recruitment, and losses are can snowball.

>>719902465 (OP)
Just make a total war: warhammer 40k already instead of more faggy ass fantasy

>>719906827
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2638690/Empire_Eternal/
Looks neat, hopefully it will be at least as good as Rise of Nations
Why the fuck is Steam showing recent and English scores instead of recent and overall ones

>>719910784
Literally keep them alive
How out of reality can you be?
Do you unironically believe all this people play the campaigns over and over again?
Just look at twich and see all they play multiplayer.

>>719911303
>Do you unironically believe all this people play the campaigns over and over again?
Didn't the devs outright confirm that

>>719911237
I suppose the main challenge is the aerial and orbital shit.

>>719911237
faggot retards already have relic and their shitty remake fuck off

>>719909637
They're called beat 'em ups and they're based.

>>719911303
I would like you to look up how many campaigns AoE2 DE has received.

>>719902465 (OP)
Give unit commands a 5 second delay. This eliminates retarded micro battles and puts a stronger emphasis on strategy, planning and scouting. It's also much more realistic because in real life you can't give instant commands to armies.

>>719909543
This

>>719911351
No... the last DLCs don't even have campaigns just a few scenarios to learn the new shit.

>>719909543
You basically want a RTTs instead.

>>719911452
retarded idea, koreans will just micro 5 seconds into the future. Nothing will change except everyone else will be extremely pissed off and turned off

>>719906827
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2363060

>>719911452
you can simulate this by turning the latency setting to very high. it fucking sucks.

>>719911379
If they made it, it should be an asymmetrical game where deep striking/teleporting into or behind enemy lines should be the norm.

>>719911643
>no longer available on steam

What happened?

>>719911643
>We have got it to run on a Raspberry Pi. Linux binaries will be released in the future.

>>719902465 (OP)
God, the bronze age aesthetic of the original AoE1 is still unmatched

>>719911237
this but DUNE wtf are you suppose to do in the world map in a 40k setting? its not like lineage is a thing and trading resources in warhammer is just pottery = gold and the alliances barley matter since its MUh grimDORk war with everyone.

>>719911423
Well that's more to do because how easy it is to add "campaigns" to that game. They just play out like skirmishes. In other games there's a story and then the game plays around that. In AOE2 there's the game and... then the story just some text about it.

In Warcraft 3 they actually managed to have a real story and missions that are built around the story because they had hero units and abilities.

>>719911636
It would be impossible.

>>719911731
It sucks only because you want to control your units the same way as if you had no latency.

>>719911868
>It would be impossible.
for (you).

>>719911452
That's just Strategos.

>>719911868
no it sucks because no game is fun to play when it's lagging

I want more games like Battle Realms

>>719912060
That is a nice ass, though.

>>719911303
Age of Wonders 4 doesn't really have a campaign so much as a series of curated "story realms" that bounce around with big leaps in difficulty. You can get through the first 2 using the same faction, then will have to start minmaxing to get the best results as the 3rd has battlemaps hit you (and the enemy) with bouts of madness. Nothing like losing control of your units who then hit the nearest target, which will usually be your other units. It's not great and the game hinges on the ridiculous amounts of customization.

>>719903992
mogged by Zero-K

>>719912232
t.

>>719911303
Where are the new games, where are the new players, the innovation, the creativity - everything's been streamlined, dumbed-down, e-sportified, stagnant, and eventually just fucking died and the only thing you have to show for is a bunch of polished ancient fossils and you say this is fine. And it's not just RTS that's dealing with this problem of excessive focus on multiplayer.

>>719909637
SC2 had all of 20% of the entire playerbase ever touch ladder. That's why they made as much coop content as they did, it was one way that had some success to get the majority of players to bother to stick around and keep playing the game. Lot of people just sort of like the video game version of playing with a bucket of army men (and whatever else you had). Shit like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWtNv7YlonY

>>719911850
>the original
Not really. Now that I played the remaster I can see the original looks like complete shit in comparison, the remaster is the standard now. I'll always be grateful that the studio didn't focus on AoE 2 exclusively and they did AoE 1 justice.

>>719911867
>They just play out like skirmishes. In other games there's a story and then the game plays around that.
I honestly don't see the difference, and I don't even think I'm being a pedantic retard arguing for the sake of arguing. WC3 does have some continuity going on because of the hero units keeping their experience levels and items, but that's about it.

>>719909447
this shit is already dead bro

>>719902465 (OP)
More single player content.
PvP is zoomer shit. Pikmin is the most popular RTS by a lot for a reason

>walks menacingly towards your base

what do you do in this situation

>>719912371
This stat was mostly from the fact that sc2 f2p didn't let you play RANKED multiplayer.

>>719909543
Gates of Hell campaign mode

>>719912543
wc3 also had diablo like missions and units could do much more than just be numbers against enemy numbers. There was dialogue and events everywhere. aoe2 campaign when I played I just remember it being skirmish after skirmish. Game starts build base destroy enemy base(s) and that's all there is.

>>719912624
This. Old RTS campaigns were the main draw, not esports for people with ADHD.

>>719911807
Nearly got suicided with three shots because he was putting things in the game that he wasn't supposed to.

>>719910574
Name the most fun you ever had playing a custom map on WC3 guys. And if you say DOTA, kys.

for me its a toss up between Warlock and Build a Sentence;
>used to play at a Lan cafe back in the day
>great vibes, became friends with a bunch of random nerds from different backgrounds/tastes etc
>sometimes we'd all come together to play WC3 customs
>Warlocks was INSANELY good and tight in lan with no lag
>8+ players in a map with no lag, incredible fun

>try Build a Sentence one day on bnet
>people hear me pissing myself laughing while typing, not actively playing
>tell them
>they insist we all play 1 round together, 12 of us
>we played it for like 2 hours straight
>2 of the group were literally dyslexic and couldnt pick the right words
>sentences like "The faggot dicksmoker Forehead(guys nickname at the cafe) sucks faggot dicks tomorrow"
>we weren't even drunk but we were in tears

>>719912338
Falling Frontier (if it ever comes out)

weird how people will say that old rts games were better because they were focused on single player and not eatsports, but all of the rts games that ever had big eatsports scenes were the same games that get praised for having good campaigns. if you ask them what these games that supposedly killed rts by overfocusing on multiplayer they will say starcraft 2 even though it had a ton of single player content or games like dawn of war 3 or c&c 4 that were just plain dogshit no matter what the focus was on. then they turn around and praise bar even though it doesn't even have a campaign.

>>719907806
based

>>719911850
It had this certain feel to it. For me it is also the synth music.

>>719912310
How so?
Looks and plays far worse

Imagine asking your friend to play a video game and then they start sperging something about WTFBROESPORTSLOLOMGXDD

>>719911303
>a single digit percentage of the people that bought the games keep playing them for years
and that's being 'kept alive'? how?

here's the deal, retard-kun, this doesn"t bring in money
this does not appeal to publishers
this does not appeal to anyone wanting to spend any money on the genre
do you know why? because how the fuck are you meant to make your money back?

the multiplayer aspect is a meme, it's all just the usual minority voicing their pointless opinion that doesn't matter because in the end, you don't bring them more money than any other purchase would, you're not special for it, quite the opposite because when they decide to release a sequel, then you might end up sticking to the old game instead of spending money on the new one
now, I understand the feeling, but from a business perspective, you're absolutely fucking retarded and yes, you're the reason the genre is dead, because the people that did want to make money looked at your retarded ass and thought 'hey how about we shove a bunch of microtransactions and add a bunch of retarded online only services to make more money from them' and then everyone fucking hated it and the genre died, and you're still here showing pictures from games that released decades ago with barely any numbers to them as if it's a proof that 'this is why the genre is alive', when clearly, if it was alive, your screenshot wouldn't be showing a single fucking game that released within the decade

fucking faggot, bring back single player focused campaigns and you can get fucked

>>719913191
>1hp buildings
fucking pass. you are a nigger. a nigger.

>>719905598
Its more fun to watch shitters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdaHICeAptM

>>719914012
these guys videos commentating low elo matches are pure kino
it's so fun watching people come up with wacky strategies
like that one guy that rushes to to the enemy base and walls them off kek

>>719913992
>having a playerbase?
>noooooo you must keep coomzooming
Just say you hate RTSs and stick with city builders

>>719912338
Here
https://youtu.be/nnjBjDc4_Uk

>>719913992
ok so you don't want people playing the same game for 20 years because it's good. you want rts to turn into ubislop where you spend $80 on a game so you can play the campaign once and then uninstall it.

>>719902465 (OP)
Make them singleplayer only. Discourage moba and horde/base defense centric games/mechanics.

>>719913992
>multiplayer isn't profitable
Whatever you do don't look it up or your cloud castle will fall apart.

>>719914220
>wanting new video games for a genre to stay alive = consooming
you probably don't even realize how many layers of cope you're under

>>719914380
>noooooo every single games out there MUST have six hundred hours of content and I must be able to play it over and over and over again!!!!
actual nigger, literally why we have so much open world slop and the 'ubislop' you're whining about, the reason why asscreeds are fucking shit now (and most other open world) is PRECISELY because your kind of niggers kept whining that they wanted the games to have more things in it to do, and this lead to the '6th out 600!! keep exploring the map to find them all!!' and retarded crafting systems festering everywhere

yes, video games are meant to be experienced and enjoyed and you're meant to move on afterwards and not be stuck doing it over and over again, mind you, if you're just another retarded autist (which you clearly are, or you wouldn't be defending the usual RTS multiplayer trash) then please do as you will, I'm not your mom you faggot
but expecting people to enjoy this shit, expecting HUMANS that don't use your bug-like brainwaves and whose frontal lobe doesn't get tickled by sending a specific amount of peons collecting wood and having ultra efficient build orders and looking at your APM, is fucking foolish to say the least
you're a dying breed and you keep trying to act as if the reason why all these games as so fucking trash isn't you and your desire for multiplayer to be the focus, when, clearly, if you add any amount of fucking logic to the equation, it's really not rocket science

the genre is dead because multiplayer is trash, that's all there is to it, now give me the warcraft 4 that could've been, you fucking nigger

>>719913992
>this does not appeal to publishers
>this does not appeal to anyone wanting to spend any money on the genre

>>719914968
>subject is whether the genre is alive or not
>nooo look at these drinking age old games
>nigger
>wtf no that doesn't count, I don't even care anyways, not my problem!!!
nigger

>>719914865
lmao melty

>>719912643
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XehNK7UpZsc&t=250s
The 20% number was before it went f2p, which probably didn't help but Blizzard probably assumed it wouldn't and was fine with it. SC2 also has way better ranked participation than most rts games, which makes sense but also sucks.

>>719913404
CnC3 was funny cause they made an esport push but let multi-player balance impact single-player, so if you don't use a fan patch you end up with that turret tutorial mission where rebalances made it so the units you're supposed to hold off were changed to hard counter turrets (outranged them). Also they had (imo) pretty shitty map design, they'd try to address mass X spam being meta but basically ignored all the large wide open areas pretty much all maps had. Meanwhile the campaign missions made use of chokepoints to force you to not mass spam things.

Just let it fucking die not everything should exist forever

>>719915384
>there's no way to monetize them
how fucking fat is this guy?

>>719915450
I will exist forever.

>>719915384
the complaints are just stupid because good rts didn't stop getting made because of eatsports, they stopped getting made because all of the good rts developers died and their replacements were total retards who would have still failed at making a single player only game.

>>719902465 (OP)
"real time" and "strategy" is kinda strange combination if you ask me... strategy is something you ponder and plan while smoking a pipe, while real time is something that gets the blood pumping and needs quick reaction times
>>719909543
try pic rel

>>719913106
I was a tryhard. I played 1v1 ladder.

>>719913794
designwise it mogs, but lookswise it's mogged

>>719912625
build handcannoneers which are my favorite unit.

>>719912625
*loads cannon*

>>719902465 (OP)
>How do we fix the RTS genre?
I found this shilled on the google while searching to help this anon >>719909543
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF3mjKigSg0
i must say it looks pretty heckin good

>>719909447
Incredibly ugly looking game. It's a good thing it never took off

>>719902465 (OP)
>tfw it will never be 1998 again
>you will never play war2 over kali all day, every day in the summer
>you will never hear a 36.6 modem handshake again
It hurts bros.

>>719902465 (OP)
Red Alert 2 Remastered

>>719906417
>Things that never happened should raise my internet creds

>>719903992
BAR is objectively one of the best RTS ever made and it's impressive that it even exists, free or not
I've had so much fun with this game ever since I discovered it and it just got better and better

>>719902465 (OP)
Custom games and use map settings. 1v1 and sweat clicking makes a weak e sport

>>719922687
nice 15 APM unc

>>719902465 (OP)
Do the only logical thing.

Combine it with a fighting game.

>>719923059
2bh most BAR players play like that near the end
after you reach the endgame your brain starts rotting then you just zoom out and do move commands and watch stuff blowing up

>>719923576
>have to do a 720 to build your best unit
>attack move is a 1 frame link

>>719923654
This could actually work for an information gated style game, figuring out how to make a campaign that supports this style of gameplay loop could be a bit tough though

>>719902465 (OP)
>How do we fix the RTS genre?
We need to wait for the current generation of incel sweatlord gen x and millennials playing them to die, and then for autoqueue to become the norm. Then the RTS genre will have a revival.

>>719924310
I don't get these complaints

sweatlords don't play with casuals
casuals don't play with sweatlords
casuals don't like playing competitive modes
sweatlords don't like playing casual modes

literally what is the fucking issue? when you enter a multiplayer RTS game you clearly see the divide, there is no overlap and when it happens both sides hate it and quickly go back to their bubble

>>719902465 (OP)
FAF

>>719925340
>literally what is the fucking issue?
The devs focusing nearly exclusively on only one of these groups

>>719925639
who?
at least all games with lobbies have divides between sweatlords and casuals

>>719925340
Sweatlords push for extremely shitty RTS styles for casuals while also destroying their wrists. That's the problem.

>>719925340
the problem is that the casuals think that they deserve to win even though they are casual. they think "I'm a smart person and in strategy games the smartest person should always win so if I can't win the game isn't strategic." it doesn't matter if the matchmaking ensures that they never have to play against people they don't want to, they see the mere fact that it placed them in wood league as an insult to their perceived intelligence.

It needs to progress and not be held back via nostalgia it has to do new things sure within the realm of the genre but it can't just be slop.

>>719925783
or do the old thing better, just make sure it's not literal cancer.(they will fail this)

>>719925702
>lobbies
Anon, the MP audience is the sweatlords unless the game has shit like co-op

>>719911039
What the fuck are you talking about? Metal makers are less efficient than expanding and building mexes by a huge margin.

>>719925847
nowadays the big things are metroidvania and rpgs, and ofc fps, perhaps console gamer's fault.

>>719925901
also
>>>/vst/

>>719925703
so you're saying that casuals never enjoyed playing starcraft, warcraft 3, or age of empires 2? which alternate universe are you from?

>AoE3 DE flopped
>AoM Retold flopped
>AoE4 flopped

AoM will get a DLC because of legal obligations but all of the money that was going to be used in these games is now going towards making more AoE2 content. Make of that what you will

Love these guys like you wouldn't believe

>>719925703
what RTS is considered "casual style"? most over here would say BAR is sweatlord tier but its QoL is better than basically any RTS

>>719925853
only extremely niche ones have exclusive sweatlord MP, other games with a decent playerbase have casual MP (they literally never become better even after years of playing, so it's their own bubble), and sweatlord MP

>>719902465 (OP)
Age of Empires gacha

>>719926119
>years of playing
>casual
Anon please...

>>719926230
ok you must be mega casual if you think a perpetual silver tier nigga is sweatlord because he played for 3 years

>>719926038
In multiplayer? No. They also have a lot less tolerance for that type of RTS now.

>still no Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds for modern machine
welp

>>719926150
Already happened
With command and conquer too

>check stormgate in jewtube
>it looks like a lame and gay version of starcraft+warcraft

How the fuck did they even fuck up with their faction and unit design?

>>719913106
Jurassic Park Survival for solo play
Fight of Characters for Lan

>>719905196
wouldnt making it turn based just make it the same as like fire emblem or something?

>>719911010
Is UA designed from the outset with the hardcore setting? Artillery should always depend on intel, which should have it's own line of dependencies, and all capable of being targeted.

>>719907434
Same. Undead was omega god tier just because of the dope unit voices.

>>719909543
>RTS with a campaign where your choices matter, your units carry over from mission to mission,
that sounds like shit. the gameplay works better when its on a mission by mission basis.

>>719905176
>>719905250
> remove the concept of hero units
Why?

>>719926385
but casuals supposedly don't play multiplayer anyway

>>719906149
>click the webbum
>think to myself (Your Anal Nightmare), "hmm this looks kinda cool"
>search it
>pic related
wtf is this

>>719906827
>steam
No Switch (physical) no buy

>>719902736
The genre desperately needs to catch up with Supreme Commander. I don't want to be stuck low zoom and clicking on my minimap. I also think a commander is the best start and playthrough (MP).

Multiplayer is where the money is. See esports.

Also, there's nothing like watching a Gyle cast of FAF, in all of casting. FAF has such variety of units and buildings, while being extremely recognizable (frigates, destroyers, battleships).

Engimod is stupid though. Cheap secondary factories is too chaotic.

>>719926108
theyre a fun unit.

>>719926119
>BAR is sweatlord tier
Anyone that would say this just completely suck at videogames and misses the point

Picked up Ancestors:Legacy.
Melee focused CoH derivative isn't that bad.

I used to play AoE 1 with my grandpa in the early 2000s

Soundtrack takes me back to to those days
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xthHF_U3c0Q

>>719906827
cool

>>719906827
None of these graphically look any better than The Lord of the Rings: War of the Ring and that was released in 2003 ffs.

>>719903992
I don't want to watch boxes shooting boxes at other boxes thanks

>>719930873
I don't understand this obsession with zoom out you might as well use the minimap if you're going to zoom out so far everything turns into dots anyway.

>>719933342
then zoom in anon

>>719933608
>his RTS has 6 gorillions of factions
>all them are copy pasted or eachother with 1 unit (a reskin with singly different stats) or tech of diferencie

>>719933683
I just don't like RTS games where the units are all tanks and mechs and robots. Feels too arcadey for me and I can't get invested.

>>719933918
your game is league of legends, you can invest lots into each champion's skins

>>719902465 (OP)
Good single-player content with lots of varied objectives and scenarios that you would never see in a multiplayer game.

>>719934162
Don't be obtuse.

>>719934247
ok but, what if the commanders were anime waifu pilots and the game had story around it?

I'd prefer to play an RTS about an existing setting then feel compelled to embrace a new one. But like, make them good. If its westernslop I don't really care enough. Wasn't there a Guilty Gear rts? concepts like that, which fit into the larger story.

>>719934434
If the story is good I will now play your game.

>>719929446
Some absolute madman jap decided to make an RTS in RPGMaker engine. Surprisingly enough, it works decently well, though graphics look pretty awkward and the translation is incomplete.

>no dorf
youtube.com/watch?v=ZKX68Nx5xk0
This guy is making what you want.

>>719927280
the anime one? yeah i hated ASSFAGs but that one was actually fun, shame the devs were gooks who never bothered to make an english variant.

>>719935257
will it even be out this decade for a reasonable price?

>>719935479
Who knows it's already been in development for 10 years.

There is nothing to fix
Zoomers are little fucking bitches

>>719902465 (OP)
I was playing dawn of war remastered last night and it just isn't the same. These games need so much attention and practice to enjoy.

>>719910118
That makes the game more gookclick which is universally hated.
CoH with its cover system was a good way to model both lethality and tankiness. (Out of position? Die really quickly. In hard cover? You can check back on them in 3 business days.)

Incidentally one of the RTS games I recommend the most to beginners since that just reduces the APM requirement considerably for players that are good at the S part of RTS.

>>719902465 (OP)
Some RTS games are already enforcing a turtle phase to completely get rid of rushes, and let players access the whole tech tree before a game ends. I think there was that one indie with a night phase that forces you to recall all your units because a PvE encounter will try to wreck your base.

Small skirmishes during the day to have some player interaction, night phase to give you a reason to invest in defenses instead of more tempo. The PvE eventually lifts entirely and it goes back to classic RTS.

>>719933682
I find this interesting.
There are some players (who are wrong) who seem to have no issue with the minimap + main view dichotomy.
But for me its just totally insane. It feels kind of like the whole ARPG WASD thing. Years and years of "ARPGs can't work with WASD" and similar statements. Then games started doing them like last epoch and path of exile 2, and all of a sudden its like those two decades of insistence never happened.

So to answer your question and hopefully we can find some kind of understanding. Its not about zooming out all the way, though you occasionally do to get a good picture of the overall strategic situation (and certainly easier to see than having the whole map squashed into a 100x100 region of the screen), its more about being able to zoom out as much as you need to for a given situation. And its not just about being able to see that much, its about being able to actually control maneuvers and tactics at that zoom level. Sometimes you're microing T2 kbots to dodge OC so you're zoomed in close. Sometimes you're coordinating a tank column. Sometimes you're maneuvering bombers through an AA screen. These are all situations that require a different balance of fidelity vs situational awareness.

>Impossible Creatures
>Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds
>Star Wars: Empire at War
>Star Trek: Armada
>Star Trek: Armada II
>C&C 3: The Forgotten(briefly played at a friends house, only remember it for the Veinhole superweapon)
>Halo Wars


this is most of my experience with RTS

>>719923654
>have to do a 720 to build your best unit
THSC
Tony Hawk's Supreme Commander

>>719913106
It was playing a map called "Avoid the Rapist"
Think of Pass the Bomb but instead of a bombz it's a beacon that draws a hip thrusting Archimonde (idk the blue guy) to your location. If he gets to you, you explode into gore.

At first you can outrun him, but he gets faster and faster. His speed resets when he rapes.

>>719902465 (OP)
More single player and pve focused

>>719927913
You have range limits and line of sight to consider with the fog of war. You can do the equivalent of using maruader scouts as spotters to dictate where the fire missions should go but the standard artillery isn't capable of firing across the map outside of a Tier V magnus cannon or whatever they call it. Basically like a Paris Gun or Big Bertha bolted into a charcoal kiln that can hit a target anywhere on the map.

The game wasn't really designed with that idea in mind since most units between Tiers I to V will end up benchwarming when you have relics and super heavies hitting the field. Not including your CnC Generals level superweapons that can already wipe out entire swathes without the nerfed HP. I think it would work better on the smaller games where you have to be methodical with your placement and compositions. Another part to consider is that you can turn the whole thing into a turtle simulator by halving unit HP, doubling building and turrets while adjusting production speeds between 0.25x - 5x. Offsetting any deficits from the constant meat grinds.

I was doing it to see how bad it can get when applied at scale. Really puts into perspective just how fucked the average dude with a laser gun is. When you have to contend with all kinds of shit that can practically onshot you if you aren't careful. Even your metal bawkes can only take a couple of rounds head on before it implodes in a ball of fire.

install mental omega

>>719902465 (OP)
ABADACUS?

>>719938028
PROSTAGMA?

>>719935775
the idea is that between the main screen and the minimap you have all situations covered. if you can't manage with just those views you are probably doing something wrong like not using control groups.

>>719902465 (OP)
It already is.

>>719902465 (OP)
By getting ride of all of those competitive types, they are clearly a cancer on the genre.

>>719902465 (OP)
It's not going to change as long as "real time" means "as fast as possible".

>>719902465 (OP)
>How do we fix the RTS genre?
Doesn't need fixing.

>>719938170
The person clinging to this piece of shit game and posting every time the superior BAR (which isn't saying much) is posted is the most cringe shit ever
Nobody knows about your ass game for a reason. Let it go.

>>719912338
aoe2 perfected the genre, so all they can do now is just add more to that game. aoe4 was fucking terrible

>>719930873
>Multiplayer is where the money is. See esports.
you can esport a good game. good games have fun campaigns for solo and multiplayer, and good map tools. games that make it for esports before making a memorable, fun game are shit.

My biggest gripe how how the AI literally cheats on harder difficulty, and competitive multiplayer just isn't fun

>>719938863
That's kinda the problem, yeah. Genre was not only figured out but also perfected decades ago depending on what flavor of RTS you want. It's been nothing but the occasional experiment here and there which will never reach those heights. Simultaneously, you'll never get NEW players to go back and play those 20+ year old games simply because they're old.

>>719902465 (OP)
>Good Campaign and story
>Distinct factions
>Faction leaders with personalities
>Competent AI that aren't just cheaters
>Scenarios
>Map editor
>Co-Op
>Multiplayer

>>719911303
>Do you unironically believe all this people play the campaigns over and over again?
guilty

>>719902465 (OP)
SOUL

RTS could be so much more...

>>719905176
I love heroes in RTS

>>719939685
>when you learned more about world history from a videogame than you did from actual public schooling
Wew

>>719902465 (OP)
play the wacraft 3 custom campaign: The Scourge of Lordaeron Refined

>>719902465 (OP)
Either focus on city building or on controlling armies

>>719940841
Learning about the horrors of the g*rman menace during the Holocaust is more important than your irrelevant "history", chudcel.

>>719903992
Playing air is pretty comfy
>setup basic eco
>spam fighers to patrol friendly territory

>>719942573
>basically not existing

I think something like the Wikinger mod for Company of Heroes 2 is the peak. Its limited by the game's engine and stuff(Cant mod in new vehicles, have to just reskin existing models), not to mention CoH2 being poorly optimized, but a game like that as it's own thing would be sick.

>>719942573
>>719942636
I play ECO and it's comfy as well. And you get to play with the big guns before anyone else.
>Not existing
A good Air player does support frontlines with Shurikens or gunships and helps a simple push to become more than a simple push. An air player can finish a game with a simple bombing run and it can happen any moment into the match, given he has enough intel or helps with pushing. If the other Air player is countering this as he should and everyone goes lategame, the Air player is the backup ECO player and will start building anything anywhere due to having T2 air cons. You can be the engineer of the team as well.

>>719938697
I sure as fuck would want another command and conquer in this lifetime but that's not gonna happen

>>719906827
empire eternal looks so fucking cool

>>719943194
>>719938697
Tempest Rising is exactly that and you didn't went for it

>>719906827
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2610770/Dust_Front_RTS/

>>719905324

The actual answer. The RTS community is gaslit by starcraft survivorship bias and influencer driven historical revisionism. During the height of RTS, the distribution of players was.

Single player>>>Custom games/coop>Multiplayer team games>>>Competitive multiplayer

Most people enjoy RTS gameplay. A fraction of those people enjoy doing the same thing over and over again. A fraction of those people enjoy trying to do it as fast and precise as possible. And a fraction of those people enjoy doing it solo in a high accountability environment.

hey RTS fags, what do you think of March Of Giants?

>>719943907
If it's good it's good, and I always hope something is
As it looks it looks gay and the wet dream of a shitter, at least on paper, and it's neither an RTS nor a MOBA but an abortion of both genres without charm.

But I really hope i'm mistaken, and it's actually a good game anyways in whatever it's attempting to do.

>>719902465 (OP)
Don't listed to shitters. All the games that they're bringing up as the good ones happen to have (or had) large and active PvP multiplayer scenes. It's not just about Starcraft, it's about how RTS (and fightan games) are simply the genres most fit for competition, which is both its biggest draw and biggest drawback.
At the same time if SPfags enjoy actual puzzle games they call campaigns or consider 3h of turtling against easy ai peak strategy it just shows how low their standards are and shouldn't be listened to. Not to mention that many would pirate it anyway. The real target audience should always be the one that's willing to engage in the community, for example by playing MP.

>>719902465 (OP)
>RTS genre only had 3 good games

>>719945754
Yo what game, bro?

>>719902465 (OP)
Business as usual but add
>waifus
>sex
>dating sim mechanics
>capture enemy leaders (female) and fix them with your cock

>>719914008
It's a fucking CUT-SCENE you TRIPLE NIGGER!

>>719907434
"I AM THE SLAYER!"

They need to capture the modern audience and include more gender minorities. What is the most progressive representation in RTS? It only got to women (Kerrigan) and black people (Warfield).

>>719946460
a scene where 1hp (allegedly) buildings get cut, a cut scene. a scene of cutting. a cutting cut scene.

>>719914008
No hiding behind 9001 HP worth of towers for you Timmy

>>719926108
They're not even that good but they're the only reason I main Spanish

>>719947802
>Both enjoy their game
>NOOOO YOU NEED TO CHOOSE ONE
Pure /v/

>>719947802
I support neither because they're both playing sweaty MP. At least SC2 has a singleplayer campaign.

>>719902465 (OP)
>Do not copy AoE, SC, WC, or C&C (though the last one didn't get copied that hard)
>Innovate by creating completely new mechanics and/or take obscure mechanics (like Sigma Tech from Impossible Creatures, Homeworld's complete 3D space, Earth's and Warzone's unit editors or in general the mechanics from Perimeter) and further polish them
>Make fun campaigns with engaging stories and interesting characters
>Absolutely ignore the loud minority that is the multiplayer crowd and cater to the casuals that are the majority like it was back in the golden age of RTS games
Here. Done. That is all.

>>719905176
>Remove the concept of hero units
Post discarded.

>>719946949
>anon reads reddit

>>719909447
>Flopped so hard the studio has to take outsourcing contracts to stay afloat
Should've catered to the casuals.

>>719910373
>>719910434
Age of Darkness is better.
Larger enemy variety.

>>719946362
Not that anon, but it's either the 1st Myth, or Myth 2.

How do we fix the RTS genre?
>Make positioning relevant
>Make morale a thing
>Make Total War great again.

The best RTS have already been made. AoE2, AoM, Rise of Nations, Generals etc.

>>719948927
>That is all.
>Innovate
>Make fun
Sure
If that is so easy, invent a new fun mechanics and collect investors for that project.

>>719947802
League is now uninstallable thanks to Vanguard. Fuck Riot.

>>719949378
>Cherrypicking while ignoring the rest of the post
Anon. Why?

>>719934958
is anything missing from the English patch? seemed complete enough

>>719909543
You are looking for RTT.

>>719928085
They become a mechanical blackhole where the game increasingly relies on them.
In Warcraft 3 entire build orders are decided by your first and second hero choice. They're your strongest unit and they necessitate pseudo or rather pre-MOBA gameplay around feeding it XP and items so you just steamroll the other guy.
Similarly, Starcraft 2's two expansions were made worse by the overfocus on OP hero units that can solo armies rather than simply treating heroes as named base units with slightly better stats.

Functionally, the more the game becomes a gook-click esports fests the less it becomes a palatable experience for a more casual audience. If you want RTS to come back, you need at least some level of casual audience.
Even if we're talking professional/elite players, strategy is different from tactics. If fights are decided by in the moment reactions (micro) instead of longterm planning and building (Macro) then it's gook click slop doomed to die because they have Starcraft and need no other god.

>>719926052
>because of legal obligations

You're a fucking retard.

>>719906827
Is Tempest Rising the one that installs a rootkit or is it one of the other early access games?

>>719902465 (OP)
I’m thinking about this lately as well, to be honest I think a big issue with RTS is the community being full of 40yo grognards who only ever want nostalgiabait and remasters, never satisfied with anything else.

Tempest Rising came out this year, plays really smoothly, better than any other RTS I’ve played, yet people still complain because it’s not a 1 to 1 copy of C&C and other random things.

Imo I think it’s a great indie title and a good foundation to expand upon since the fundamentals are so tight.
BAR is also another good recent title.

>>719906827
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2587620/Dinolords/
Why does this trailer look like a mobile game ad
>single-player only
I guess because it is a mobile game.

>Hero units
>Grinding
>Gatcha
>Metaprogression
The sad truth is that normies want garbage mechanics.

>>719909543
Earth 2150 fits all of them but the branching is minor and you can play most missions in each campaign. The sequel lost much of the features but still worth playing too.

>>719911615
>>719949751
Sad RTSlets.

RTS games are like Arena Shooters. Everyone is whining why they are dead and that they need to come back, but whenever a new one is made people will either say
>this is shit, it's not like [favorite old arena shooter]
>this is shit, it's too much like [favorite old arena shooter]
>and a very very small portion of people who'll actually enjoy it
>to be fair there is always a very small portion of people who'll enjoy whatever
Meanwhile the [favorite old rts/arena shooter] game is still there and perfectly playable or even maintained by the community in some cases.
It also doesn't help that most new releases are straight up bad by either dev incompetence or typical trend chasing corpo bullshit.

And reading RTS threads is fun as well because of how much people sperg out over muh compfags, muh compstompers, muh this muh that.
>>719938170
Honestly gameplaywise this one is absolute peak, but nearly everything else, from menus to graphics is hard to swallow.

RTS coalesces into Three Spheres

Sphere 1: City Builder (Tycoon/City Sim games)
Sphere 2: Total War Simulator (Supreme Commander)
Sphere 3: Gookclick (StarCraft)

Sphere 1 + 2 gives you (Age of Empires)
Sphere 3 + 1 gives you (Warcraft)
Sphere 2 + 3 gives you (League of Legends/DoTA)**


Too much of Sphere 1+2, 3, or 2+3 gives you dead on arrival games because you are not dethroning the 3 kings (Age of Empires, StarCraft, or League games). Command and Conquer killed itself and its niche is more or less up for grabs.


**Gookclick with OP Supcom, AI controls the "army" so you can focus solely on the hero unit.

>>719949125
>AoD is better
Buy an ad you retarded fuck. AoD is half baked trash

Is age of empire 3 story mode worth playing? i only played mp with cousin way back ago.
i've been trying to complete old RTS games campaign i used to play but never got to finish back then and i did age of mythology recently, shit was pretty fun, reminded me a bit of warcraft 3 in term of objectives.

>>719950659
mobaloids don't have armies, the minions are just walking mineral fields

>>719950659
>Sphere 3 + 1 gives you (Warcraft)
bro, Warcraft basebuilding is nearly 1:1 SC. What does "City Builders" have to do with it. WC is nearly just SC with Heroes and everything the hero mechanic bring(items, creeps etc)
I am sorry but your post is stupid.

>>719911039
I agree, it forces you to consider map control and gives the game more tempo.

>>719949751
sorry wrong image

>>719934182
Do they plan to ever replace the slop?

>>719950758
>>719950923
Yes, because they city building elements of RTS are dropped in favor of the God Game elements (Global powers, singular powerful unit, indirect control of followers)

on reflection the (Core) elements of an RTS are
>God Game (Black and White, Populace, etc)
>City Builder (Sim City, Tycoon Series, etc)
>Real Time Tactics games (I think Jagged Alliance fits here?)

So when you have God Game + RTT game, you get Mobas, RTT Game + City Builder is closer to Age of Empires (Age of Mythology adds some God Game Elements)

Command and Conquer is the mid point of all three spheres, you have global powers like nukes, invisibility fields, drop pods, bombing runs, but you also have base building and micro focus with massive armies.
I jumped the gun with my first post.

>>719951296
WiC doesn't carry over your units, and as long as you don't fail the mission objective you can infinitely call in reinforcements.
Terminator gives you a limit number of units and their types at the start, with some scripted reinforcements or those of your choosing and if they survive till the end of the mission, they can be used in later missions or sold.

>>719911039
>games like total annihilation where you can build 100 metal income buildings in the corner of your base don't have this kind of impetus and have a much more stale metagame as a result.
absolutely clueless
metal spots are much better yield. if you build up in your base like that you'll be stomped to shit by the opponent who went out and spent the resources on capturing the map
at the same time CoH also literally forces you to go out on the map to obtain resources. there is a sort of booming there, or rather a decision of spending it on teching up or rushing out with lower tech units, but yeah maybe in general it's more of a constant pressure in it's low
anyway, no, you are wrong, go back and play your archaic shitty C&C and it's clones for the thousandth time

>>719939885
Why would someone put lean-tos on tracks?

>>719946876
I too hope to see one day a strategy game that simulates killing minorities on an industrial scale.

>>719950519
>>to be fair there is always a very small portion of people who'll enjoy whatever
This should have been the first line in your post. And probably the last. I stopped reading after that, for one.

>>719951946
it just can't be helped, there are people other there playing Redfall still for example

>>719952058
out there, duh

>>719951515
He's wrong but there's nothing shitty about C&C games. They are far from perfect but so is TA and its clones.

Fix the horrible pathfinding found in every single rts.
It is 2025, when i click multiple times for my units go somewhere i do not want to see them having a seizure.
Oh and bring back fun campaigns instead of glorified skirmishes.

Stop overcomplication with shit with stupid mechanics. Just let me collect resources, create cool units that get bigger and stronger as the game progresses and use said units to send meatwave onto the enemies big and strong units and watch them fight and kill each other

An RTS that could deserve a modern remake is actually Dark Reign. Has a simple plot that is still compelling and a very dystopian, cold and ruthless atmosphere. Too bad modern devs will absolutely ruin it anyway.

>>719952148
>there's nothing shitty about C&C games
bog-standard basic RTS, pretty lame by today's, or like 20 years before's, standards imo

>>719951552
World War 1 inspired tanks. I think it's supposed to be one of these without the turret (simpler to model). There's also one that's inspired by the British teardrop shaped WWI tanks in the game.

>>719952212
I think there are plenty mobile games that fit your requirements, anon, so you can leave your shitty opinions in /vmg/ instead of RTS threads.

I've been playing Era One a lot. It's only early access and there isn't much to it yet, but you get long games out of it and it's fun to play in different ways.

You build spaceships like homeworld but also can build big ships with modular parts.

just make aoe ripoffs it doesnt matter if they are bad

>>719950667
and TaB isn't?

>>719902465 (OP)
Make a fun game first
All of the popular RTS games are good on their own, multiplayer grew organically because the games are fun to play.
Just make a good solo campaign with solid/fun mechanics


>>719905176
What a retarded post

>>719905196
You are aware what RTS means, right?

>>719912060
>the things we could have had

Homeworld 2 was my favourite game for a long time. The remaster while appreciated made the UI awful, and I had to change the voice audio back to the original.

3 was an insult, I've never even played it.

>>719909543
Holy shit, you faggots are brainrotten.
Every fucking genre that isn't as popular as it used to be, it's the same shit. Stop crying about esports.
You want to get rid of multiplayer for no good reason other than show how much you hate esports.

>>719906258
>>719906827
It's the same shit as always. It's faggots who don't play games who complain.
Same as how the threads were about "Dota/LoL killed RTS" at some point. All of the RTS games had an active community back then too, AoE2, SupCom, etc.

>>719952763
RTS means SHIT. Turn based means a good strategy game. Nobody even knows what strategy is apparently.

battle Royale with 100 players

>>719909543
To think that they used to have these features already in the 90's RTS games... but they were severely underused. Even C&C had unit and fund transfer but they were barely used.

the games need more personality. every classic rts oozes personality. aoe, wc, sc, c&c, dow etc etc. nobody gives a single shit about grey goo, even though it supposedly has great gameplay with thoughtful design, and why? it has 0 personality. it looks like what an AI would shit out. no, it's actually worse. it looks like what an AI would shit out if asked to shit out something that evokes the stereotypical slop look of what an AI would shit out, edited and filtered for pure and absolute insipidness and uninterest. and every modern rts is like that, besides the niche shit that sacrifices the actual rts gameplay for gimmick appeal, like that one about animal revolutionaries or whatever.

the only exception to this is supcom, which managed to rise to prominence anyway by just being absurdly, ridiculously good. look at the new supcom clones: dead garbage. do you even care what the changes made to the formula were? in what way the stay with or depart from TA and so on? no, i bet you don't. i bet you took one look at that shit, maybe spent a couple minutes trying the basics, and then your gaze instinctively flicked towards the drawer where you keep your suicide revolver.

nobody could ever have given a shit about stormgate, or tempest rising. nobody will give a shit about your uberretro rts fundamentalist indie game titled "Dirt Grind 1925" or "Songs of Conflict of Bellatoria: Tides of Embers Rising" that you hype alongside your 20 other virgins. why will they fail? well, they fail rule 1: have personality. and if they're some freak of development and follow it, they'll fail rule 2: be a good rts game.

simple? complex? campaign? casual? esports? elite and heroes? large-scale?doesn't fucking matter

Honestly I really like Tempest Rising, but I do wish you had something akin to Nukes or some other big weapons.

Not so much OP superweapons as they tend to become too much like hero units, but something to shift the flow of battle like a big nuke.

>>719954181
>just have soul
>just have vibes
>just have personality

Lmao

>>719954392
yes.

>>719953293
BAR
Though the appeal of Free for All I think is undersold.
I’m not a big fan of 1v1, but I do love FFA matches as an alternative to team games.

Lots of room for comebacks and varied gameplay, as well as skill expression.

>>719902465 (OP)
we don't

AoE4 is good and I'm tired of pretending it's not.

Biggest issue with a lot of the games people mention is that they feel like shit to play.
AoE2 and even more so DE feel great to play, tight unit control and pathfinding and yet barely anyone mentions this.

Even Brood War was a huge step up from older titles even if the classic version is jank today, and SC2 was only an improvement on that.

With stormgate for example, a lot of times my units would just not do what I expected them to do and that makes you hate the game over time even if you don’t think about it.

>>719954623
Yea the actual gameplay is really good
This and Tempest Rising are the smoothest recent RTS games to play imo.

>>719943907
I'm a giant fan.

>>719953227
Your solution for real time strategy is to make it turn based strategy, that's my point
>Turn based means a good strategy game
Not really
> Nobody even knows what strategy is apparently.
Yeah, I can see that by reading your posts.
Take AoE2 for example
Let's say player A starts to rush with horse guys. Player B then counters by using the spikey boys because they counter horse units. Player A tries to disrupt player B's economy, if player B defends well, then player A is at a disadvantage since his investment into the attack didn't lead to the desired disruption of player B's economy.
That is strategy, it's just that in RTS don't wait a turn, you just react as soon as possible.

>>719953345
>Even C&C had unit and fund transfer
Which games and missions?

>>719930873
>Multiplayer is where the money is. See esports.
There's no money if there's no playerbase dumb MPfag.

>>719954181
Original SupCom has plenty of flavour. FA "streamlined" some of it out, like the UI no longer having unit descriptions.

>>719955102
yeah, i know. i like it. it's kinda autistic though, i don't think it has any mass appeal beyond being bots, so i don't count it. similar to battletech. cool that there's bots and it's cool that there's supposedly lore and shit behind the bots, but if you actually have decent grip on it you're probably some kinda weirdo. like i said though, i appreciate it.

>>719905324
I like both single player and multiplayer but single player is the only way i can get into multiplayer.

>>719954994
To be honest I’ve lost interest in Grand Strategy paradox style games because the illusion of strategy is mostly bullshit and the difficulty is largely artificial.

Gone back to RTS games over the past few years and really enjoying them again.

>>719911850
Age progress in AOE1 feels more like actual progress compared to AOE2.

>>719914012
This
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4DF099-DNo

Sometimes it's the ridiculous bad plays, sometimes it's the completely unhinged strategy

>>719954995
Only one mission IIRC, Red Alert 1 allied mission 2 transfers your game state to mission 4. The fund transfer was in C&C1, I think most missions have it but it's not really a documented feature so it's hard to notice.

I tried civ and it felt cheap. It gives you the illusion that you're researching unique tech but by the end of an age you have all the tech and your civ is the same as any other.

>>719955961
It’s the developers trying to deal with the issue of snowballing
Which is painfully dumb first off, and they did a bad job of it anyway.

>>719943871
It also helps that AoE has good campaign/story, Starcraft is alright with the direction it went.


>>719955581
That's how it's supposed to be but nowadays it's just some shitty campaign that doesn't even properly teach you basics or two completely different games

People aren't giving enough attention to the fact that a PC port of the AOE mobile slop has been announced. That means it's doing well enough financially to expand to PC, and this is a real threat to the future of AOE2.

Is Dawn of War worth playing?

>>719956057
Every company is led by people who want a successful mobile/gacha game

>>719902465 (OP)
Step 1) A good single-player campaign
Step 2) Powerful map-making tools
Step 3) That's it, there's no step 3. A competitive scene will naturally form around any popular game, whereas a game that only targets hardcore sweats will never become popular outside that niche

>>719956057
tons of mobile games get ported to pc even without players (or payers). it's probably trivially cheap and certainly absolutely meaningless

>>719955259
>mass appeal
Who cares?
>there's supposedly lore and shit behind the bots
Let's see:
- cybernetically enhanced humans versus regular humans, an sci-fi topic;
- ancient aliens;
- pacifists who can into war if pressed;
- pacifists also go completely insane if they do the equivalent of staring too much into the abyss.
So even in the broadest strokes it's actually pretty good. You couldn't get into it and glossed over everything? Happens but doesn't mean you're simply not an outlier.

>>719914012
>watch regicide rumble (FFA with diplomacy)
>a guy called sir explosive hopper is messaging every player at 150 WPM trying to team up with them and get them to attack each other

>>719955936
I need to test it. I have played the campaigns again recently but I don't remember that. Either way I really doubt the game actually transfers structures and units because that would take way too much memory at the time. At most it could transfer object type and coordinates, i.e. losing current HPs, XP for units. Re-creating things is not transferring.

>>719956140
man, every piece of slup churned out has background crap like that. i played the campaign, of course i know it's there. but it doesn't lend the game any real personality and probably did next to nothing for either sales or legacy. it's not meaningful. every other classic rts beats supcom in this.

>>719956130
I’d say good fundamentals are more important than that.
If the game feels like shit to play it won’t keep me playing it.
A solid game with zero campaign and zero personality (like BAR) meanwhile can ride on it’s solid mechanics and fundamentals alone with other stuff coming after.

Frankly most RTS campaigns have dumb stories and fairly generic missions, it’s just fun to play with toy soldiers in a sandbox with some objectives.

Blizzard raised the bar for RTS narrative and spawned all these Storyfags

>>719956352
You're ignoring my second point: map-making tools. Blizzard didn't just raise the bar for campaigns, but also for custom games. I'll bet you that more people remember WC3 because of shit like Footman Frenzy, Angel Arena, Wintermaul and Tower Wars rather than the story. But why would you make a custom map for a game that no-one plays? You have to get players interested in the base package, and that's where you're shit out of luck if your campaign sucks. How many people do you really think would start playing an RTS game for the competitive multiplayer scene? The thing with hero shooters is that FPS is a very simple genre to enter; RTS isn't

>>719956614
Scenario and map editor is big, but I feel it’s a secondary concern over making the game feel good and have interesting mechanics.

>How do we fix the RTS genre?
Short version: We need to recognize RTS is a casual single player (sometimes co op) genre just like something like RPGs. Multiplayer PvP RTS just don't work. It's way too flawed.

>>719947802
raw apm is not a good metric in whether a game is good or not. And the obsession with it is probably a big reason why RTS is in a purgatory.

>>719956672
You talk like a fan of the genre, but if you want to see an RTS be successful you have to consider people who merely enjoy the occasional RTS or might never have played one. Blizzard pulled it off by appealing to people in general, not specifically to people who were already fans of the genre

>>719956352
In simple terms an RTS needs SOVL.
The appearance should be appealing, not realistic or high fidelity necessarily, but appealing.
The feel of the game should be appealing. You click a unit and it speaks. Each unit has a personality or easily identifiable sounds.
The identity of each and every unit and faction should be easily readable.
The world should be interesting and endearing.

Now you can start talking about campaigns and map editors.

>>719956614
>>719956672
Uncs who still live in 2007.
You know everyone and their mother already have all the niche games they dreamed of as a kid. Those that want to pursue game dev careers can get and work with much more approachable professional tools. And kids who want a creative outlet are already satiated with Roblox.

You're chasing a world that no longer exists. Where people make shitty Touhou and Naruto maps in WC3 because they can only enviously look at camera vids from Japan. Make games for their friends on this or that forum where they spend all their online time since there's fuck all else to do online.

>>719957168
>You know everyone and their mother already have all the niche games they dreamed of as a kid.
I wish
none of my dream games exist

>>719955936
You're right, it actually transfers everything including HPs. I have the saved games to compare thankfully.

>>719906827
>Godsworn
>a RTS based on the Baltic Crusades

It happened twice now.

>>719957049
Actually, on that point, a big reason why SC and WC were successful is also because a lot of people didn't care that they were RTS to begin with, because they played other game modes with other mechanics. Just look at DotA

>>719956335
Pointless distinction.

>>719956130
> competitive scene will naturally form around any popular game
this is a meme
SC devs put bunch of thought and effort into designign and balancing SC's multiplayer scene. The new units of the expansions were all designed to address units that were overpowered in base SC.
Kind of same with AoE2 where the expansion added new units to counter overpowered ones or just buff weak ones

Red Alert 2 is a good example where the devs put zero effort into balancing the multiplayer and the game has a very shitty multiplayer as a result where spamming the basic tank unit is just by far the best option.

>>719957168
>You know everyone and their mother already have all the niche games they dreamed of as a kid
If that's the case, could you please direct me to an TES-like game with the same level of modding support but with actually good core mechanics? I seem to have misplaced it

>>719957168
I think at least a mapmaker is a good addition since new maps is a simple yet effective way to keep players entertained.

Some alternate win conditions as well to mix things up, like assassinating a key unit or building verses just deathmatch.

>>719903002
>protectors stopped updates
It's never been more over

>>719957476
You are pointless.

>>719940841
I learned there was such thing as St Crispin's day.

>>719956192
Exploding kings is the best game mode. Exploding villagers is the funniest.

>>719909543
https://www.moddb.com/mods/the-dawn-of-the-tiberium-age

This Tibsun mod features a pretty good campaign, with (hidden) branching paths.

>>719956192
I always feel bad for the people who can't into realpolitik and fall for the guy gaming everyone.

>>719957553
Fair, I was bring too broad in my statement. My point is simply that no-one's going to play your game if you prioritize competitive balance, as that niche is far too small to be profitable

>>719903002
>>719905523
>>719907434
Man, warlords battlecry 3 was such an ugly yet soulful game

Whats with the devs these days, really wish we would get another really ambitious RTS like it with shitloads of factions and hero classes and an actual rpg-ish rts campaign

I have bought multiple AoE2 DLC's (not touching the three chinkdoms) and the last time I touched multiplayer was in the DE beta because that and the William Wallace campaigns were the only options.

>>719958527
>chinese dlc bad cuz they didn't give me Free Tibet™ like reddit told me they should have

>>719957168
Mapping and modding tools are really only a benefit to the game they're added to. Taking those away or half-assing it has the real potential to kneecap your games' longevity.

>>719958942
When you post things like this do you believe them or do you just enjoy acting like a dense mongoloid for attention

>>719903992
The troon man's SupCom.

>>719951509
nta but losing assets makes sense as they would be redeployed elsewhere on the next battlefront.

>>719959157
Explain to me why this dlc is bad and why the dlc adding rome (not medieval) or burgundy (franks already in the game) are fine

There is no fucking reason why this dlc (that adds the most amount of new civs and by far the most new units) should be controversial other than "le china bad" reddit tier circlejerking

I just flat out do not like 3d games. Every new rts looks like a rainbow coloured toy playset with blocky units, and you always wind up building like 10-15 buildings max. Where's my sprawling cities and grand armies?

When you think about it. It is surprisingly people haven't tried to innovate the genre that much.
From C&C & SC2 spam style strategy that involves farming on the map too zone control of important resource objectives on the map. To call down reinforcements on a timer and autopathing / micro of units. There are a lot of things that could be innovated. Where are the avalanches / landslides / hill terrains that impede vehicles. Always having flat maps has been the worst part of the strategy genre with modern warfare type games.

>>719959665
I mean they already did the one adding a ton of Indian Civs when India is a huge meme, I don’t mind more Chinese ones.

India was already a civ as is China anyway.

Someone needs to turn Fractured Space assets into a space RTS

>>719959665
I don't care to play a Three Kingdoms campaign. If they focused on less-explored parts of Chinese history I would be interested, but it doesn't, so there is nothing of value to me in the DLC until someone makes custom campaigns using the new factions. Quit being a sperg.

We need another Tactical RTS.

>>719959665
recruitable china superheroes lmao

>>719952765
I've never seen a game miss the point so badly like Homeworld 3 did.

>>719959997
>when India is a huge meme
It really wasn't. India made up aprox 23% of the world's gdp before the UKies destroyed nad pillaged the country, and it was the most sought after trading destination of europe which was the reason europeans accidentally discovered america

AoE2 devs are actually doing a good job giving credit to non euro medieval civs. They are also the only devs I know about who actually recognized that Persia was the original heavy cavalry poverhouse

>>719960883
>applying GDP to ancient societies
Cringe and retarded
Jeetpost

This was the real best AOE and MMO of all time.

>>719960473
Nothing wrong with them, in fact every civ should get one. They are pretty much just flavor units for casual matches, too expensive to be competitively viable

>>719949816
>Functionally, the more the game becomes a gook-click esports fests the less it becomes a palatable experience for a more casual audience

Dont blobs of armies make RTS look more like a gook-click esports fest compared to Heroes?

Heroes condense the onscreen action into "Look Engima is casting a black hole!" rather than "Look Yun-Seon-Dookie is microsing is 98 marines to out maneuver Dookie-Yan-Shang's 102 Marines, what a play!"

I think thats the whole reason Heroes came into WC3 to begin with. Big, stupid, recognisable units with larger than life abilities you cant really give to traditional units.

I do wanna see more of a return to armies over hero vs hero but I think heroes do have a role to play

>>719960945
>Ancient
we are talking about few centuries old societies you tard, with countless amount of documentation coming from all regions not just domestically. Why the fuck do you think euros were so desperate to finding shorter trade routes with india.

>>719961086
Tempest Rising gets a good middle imo with it’s elite units

>gook click
Using this shit is an instant red flag that the person is an utter retarded shitter seething about not being able to beat anyone in multiplayer

SC series is literally The best selling rts series by far, selling tens of millions of copies. These games having a solid competitive scene never hampered it's casual appeal

>>719960473
They have slightly more hit points than a normal unit and get killed very easily if you put them into combat. The area buff around them is comparable to other castle unique techs that give civilization-wide buffs, but localized around the hero until they get killed off and have to be replaced at a high cost

Hardly superheroes

>>719902465 (OP)
idk i just hate micro intensive rts because im a casual, i play and old rts that does not give a fuck about balance and i get my shit fucked up

removing base building.
there. solved rts.

>>719903992
>free
>open-source
>variety of game modes pvp and pve
>tons of custom settings
>can have over 100 players per match
>no gook clicking needed
>still on alpha
How can other RTSs even compete?

>>719960883
A country of that size and that power getting bullied and conquered easily by a tiny country a fraction of the size on the other side of the world with 1700s technology is and always will be a meme

>>719960883
INDIA SUPERPOWER BY 2030

>>719962930
So league of legends

>>719962932
By having an actual substance beyond geometric shapes throwing things at each other.

>>719961086
nta but I don't like heroes and unit abilities because it forces me to micro those units instead of attack-moving groups into each other
One of the reasons I don't like Red Alert 2 very much

>>719961336
Anon, you're an imbecile.
There are no countless amounts of documentation from before printing press and India didn't have that before Europeans brought it over.
It's completely retarded bullshit made up for MBA types who can't fathom a world that doesn't run like a modern economy.

>Why the fuck do you think euros were so desperate to finding shorter trade routes with india.
Yeah, they were looking for trade routes to India, not Hindustan (i.e. the state of modern India).
Columbus was hoping to land in the easternmost Indian island of Japan.
These people weren't looking for a way to India, they were looking for access to non-Muslim Asia. To get Chinese tea, Indonesian bananas and pepper, Champanese sandalwood, Sri Lankan cinnamon,...

>>719930873
>Multiplayer is where the money is.
The next one will work, the next one will work, the next one will work.

Speaking of RTS, what's the modern way to play Tiberian sun? Is there a launcher mod for it that fixes game bugs like Heroes of Might & Magic 3 HD?

>>719910434
That game felt more like a puzzle game than a strategy. I was either winning, or I was dead, with nothing in between. Zombies making more zombies by destroying your buildings was a dumb mechanic

>>719909637
Single player RTS is like living in the golden age of RTS, where the genre wasn't dead as fuck.

>>719912643
This stat was mostly from the fact that people don't play multiplayer because it came before SC2 went f2p.
If you were as good at RTS multiplayer as you are at ignoring simple facts of reality, you might one day beat me in a match.

>>719913106
>DOTA
Shoutout to my old clan. The years spent tryharding in the pick-league contain some of my favorite gaming memories.

>>719961336
They weren't looking for trade routes to India, they were looking for the East Indies. That group of islands north of Australia.
It's why Columbus mistook the Caribbean for the Indies, they were both a bunch of islands scattered in the ocean inhabited by barbarians.

>>719947802
>rts player presses 500 buttons
>while not actually doing anything
Amazing.

>>719961651
Go and make another esports focused RTS and lose $40m then, idiot. One day you'll learn or you run out of money.

>>719962930
Wow, that's that new idea that nobody has ever tried before than somebody comes up with once every 2 years. Maybe once somebody tries this never tested idea for the 100th time, it'll start working out. I guess some people liked company of heroes.

>>719943302
>Tempest Rising is exactly that and you didn't went for it

Tempest Rising has unit caps. That's an automatic disqualification.

>>719964096
>the modern way
Wine probably. Or Proton maybe. Oh, wait, by "the modern way" you meant "how do I run it on my combination of hardware and OS you must learn of telepathically". Well, I guess we'll just wait for a telepath anon to post them.

>>719902465 (OP)
Less autism and more strategy

>Gigantic open worlds
>persistence
>various objectives
>more emphasis on recon and situational awareness
>PVPVE
>high APM gook clicking micro replaced by setting objectives, areas of responsibility etc. for more autonomous units

>>719965129
Forgot to add: I want to play basically EVE:Online (with less retardation) but with small fleets with RTSy controls instead of multiboxed single clients.

>>719964947
All Westwood games have them. You can change them if you know how but they all have both building and unit limits. For example, Red Alert has at most 100 aircraft in total. The building, ground vehicle and infantry limits are all 500.

>>719965069
I literally said if there's a HD launcher the equivalent of Heroes 3 HD - bug fixes, QoL improvements, possibly a high quality scaling/stretching filter to run it in 1920x1080 without the graphics turning ant sized.
Because TS is kind of painful to play in its original form since the engine is very buggy and slow, and if you'd ever played it you'd know that.

>>719963184
>league
no? that's not really, nvm.

>>719965583
TR uses a population cap, not a unit cap.

And C&C3/RA3 does not have a population cap.

>>719906827
>3D RTS

>>719965620
Fascinating. I have indeed played it yet again a year ago. The original, without anything like that. Worked fine. But I'm sure if I played it on whatever AIDS-infested computer you have I'd have similar problems.

>>719965807
>C&C3
It's not a Westwood game. And I'm sure there is some unreasonable limit anyway, just hidden. The example in my previous post is from the first Red Alert game.

>>719951515
if I'm wrong how come every time I see ta-like gameplay it's a bunch of people on one base a moving endless tides of robots across the map?

>>719966274
RA1 came out at a time when you couldn't even fit 500 units on the screen and you had no virtual memory to get around limits in case you ran out of RAM. And Westwood is notoriously bad when making an engine that scaled well, all of their RTS games start chugging at unreasonably low speeds when you reached high unit counts, from Dune 2, C&C, RA1, all the way up to Grey Goo.

RA2 could already do a ludicrous amount of units, I remember playing maps that teleported 500+ units at you at the same time, this pic is from one of those maps so you had close to 2000 units/buildings/etc on a single map.

By comparison the population cap in Tempest Rising is not there to artificially limit the memory the game uses, it's there as a gameplay/balance choice.
And oh funny that you mention it, you could build larger armies in RA1 than you could in TR. okay...

>>719966163
build 9 disruptor tanks and post a video of how the game runs.

>>719967024
>By comparison the population cap in Tempest Rising is not there to artificially limit the memory the game uses, it's there as a gameplay/balance choice.
I wasn't arguing against that. You've cleared the misunderstanding by changing the original statement from "unit cap" to "population cap".

>>719902465 (OP)
Focus on campaigns with a particular emphasis on the story, characters and aesthetics.
World in conflict is a good example.

>>719902465 (OP)
Whoa I have a cool revolutionary idea that nobody's thought about before.
What if they made a new RTS... and then made it singleplayer focused??
Nobody's really said this before at ALL in the past 15 fucking years of almost exclusively singleplayer focused RTS games. If you just pandered to my nostalgia from childhood, I could then proceed to not hear about the game because I pay no attention and then not buy your game!

Really incredibly stupid that nobody's thought of this and instead there's just so many RTS games that come out exclusively pandering to starcraft style APM focused gameplay. Pandering to those damn gooks ruined RTS!

>>719964096
>what's the modern way to play Tiberian sun
TS Client: https://www.moddb.com/mods/tiberian-sun-client
It does exactly that, fix game bugs.

There's also Vinifera which aims to improve TS: https://github.com/Vinifera-Developers/Vinifera/releases/tag/v0.1.0.0
You can choose to use it with TS Client but I don't consider it usable yet. A useful feature it has is RA2 style build tabs.

>>719902465 (OP)
Unironically slow down progression. Games are usually zergs to best units. You should be encouraged to fight with low power unites while you gain the resources for higher power units.

>t. casua

>>719968170
And can you name even one good game? I thought not.

>>719956130
>A competitive scene will naturally form around any popular game
The problem is getting anyone to stick around at all in the first place. Even in your fantasy world where people actually play RTS campaigns in 2025, you need a multiplayer mode that is fun and replayable to get enough engagement to make a map-maker work.
>>719957672
No, it's fucking not, you god damn fucking retard.
Map makers ONLY matter if the game is already popular enough for people to fucking use them.
There's so many endless RTS games that blow themselves up spending half their development effort on mod tools and map makers and so on and they just never ever ever get used. New RTS games are never going to be WC3 in its heyday.
>>719959093
They are also a massive goddamn drain on development resources.
EVERY single commercial RTS that has developed even the nichest following in the past decade has not bothered with them.

>>719968432
That's what I was looking for, thanks.

>>719968576
>actually every example in this whole genre is just "not good"
>i-i-i-it's not that I don't like the genre and would never play them anyway, I swear!

>"noooo there are so many singleplayer games you just aren't playing them!"
>names some soulless boxslop with tired worldbuilding, a shit campaign if even that, and mechanics that would have been outdated by the release of Dune 2

>>719938123
Or maybe I could want the easier to use, less clunky zoom out instead of having yet another thing that forces me to expend time and actions dealing with what it lacks.

Bring back huge scale of Supreme Commander. I want to command thousand of units like in total war
Like take new WH40k Dawn of War, it's the same fucking shit we played 20 years ago just with updated graphics, I can easily accept low res textures if they increase the scale of battles. But I know this will not happen in any AAA game because the industry has been overtaken by women and indians who can't program for shit so it the game would shit itself after you recruit more than 10 units. it's over all hope lies in indie devs but most of them are talentless

>it's 2025 and we're all still playing red alert 2 & aoe2 because nothing has surpassed it
grim

>>719966932
Because you're dumb and don't understand what you're looking at?

>>719922687
that's a nice rec, thanks

>>719902465 (OP)
waiting times.
this shit worked back in the day because they were slow games for slow computers.
you can't tell a deep fried zoomer brain to wait until he gets a shitty 5 soldier army to fight.

My vision of an RTS is one that takes a lot of notes from Close Combat to focus on larger scale strategy, careful use of limited resources, supply lines, map control and changing terrain, where the units are able to do the micro for themselves and you only need simple inputs like "stand here and ambush enemies coming from this direction" instead of having to change their diapers for them.

>>719912625
>deploy trebuchet
>hope one of the 5 shots I still have till it reaches me connects
>order onager to move back as a backup plan, it'll arrive in time
>mobilize all villagers so I have 3 repairmen available for every teutonic knight

>>719922687
that seems like some supreme commander shit.
and supreme commander IS shit.

>>719902465 (OP)
More supcom less starcraft.

>>719961651
I don't think you understand just how much less mandatory clicking and how much less action overhead I have in other games. I don't think you understand why I dislike games with strict openings and timings.

>>719902465 (OP)
You copy them

I played a game against a biological female friend who was very adept at AoE2 but I haven't played RTS in years that time, and I still resent how mercilessly she shredded me instead of treating me with kid gloves.

>>719970986
Was she autistic?

>>719906149
That's the One Way Heroics dev right?

>>719902465 (OP)
Simply copy this.

>>719934958
>RPGMaker engine
Not exactly, he did it in WolfRPG, which is a different version made by someone else. That someone else happens to be him, he made the engine from scratch.

>>719966932
Because
1) You're watching 8v8, where expansion is limited by the fact that you have to physically take it from the enemy because all the other spots are taken by your team members, so metal makers go up in value
2) You're watching 8v8 after someone's won their push and the requirement for actions has dropped to nil
3) Building up 2 full bases in any TA spinoff is rare because the reward for building them up is lower than building one up. You'll see forward factories every now and then, but why would you expect a Starcraft-like expo in a game where it doesn't make sense?

RTS has already been perfected. When you've got games of WC3, Rise of Nations, Total Annihilation etc, the only place to go is down.

By making a trifaction RTS medieval style game where the faction are in that order, the human dominion, a kingdome of mostly full blood human with a supremacist feudal ideoligion, it would have as you would expect brave knights, siege weapon along with tamed colonial tribal anthro auxiliary police that believe in the human supremacy, the dominion units and building are more expensive but are generally superior to the other factions building, the second faction would be the savage, various tribals encampments that, as their name imply they are made up exclusively of barely intelligent anthro, they are technologically inferior in every way compared to the dominion, still stuck in the Neolithic age, they worship totems, and various gods, they see human as disgusting (but arousing) creatures their units would consist of fast cheap expendable warriors that can hide in the vegetations that are dangerous in the early stages, the last faction is the resistance, made up of local anthro warchief that decided to team up to have a better fighting chance against the dominion, they are technologically supperior to the savage by a slim margin, they not only believe that human are inferior but that they must be enslaven for various purpose, mostly made up of anthros and human slaves, they are a mix of the savages and the dominion in term of units and building

>>719971159
She never struck me as a full on aspie. Like, she doesn't have any intense or autismal interests. She's just high IQ.
But she's def borderline like I am.
When she was a teenager almost 20 years ago she had this avatar from Elfenlied.

>>719950707
The base game campaign is fun alt history involving a fictional secret society, pirates, the fountain of youth, the city of gold, and other greatest hits of colonial America folklore. Very similar to Age of Mythology's campaign.

Less focus on PvP, more on PvE/for-fun modes.
WC3 and AoE2 are timeless classics because of their custom gamemodes.
There is compfags obviously and they have the biggest share out of all gamemodes, but people playing for fun were the majority, just divided between a hundred different gamemodes.

>>719968708
>you need a multiplayer mode that is fun and replayable to get enough engagement to make a map-maker work
You just need to allow people to create what they want, which - granted - can be really difficult today. I don't think we'll ever get a good AAA RTS again, since AAA companies would want to moderate what goes on their platform, or add a line to the EULA that says they're allowed to steal your ideas for free. But even StarCraft launched with a few UMS (i.e. custom) maps, such as Zergling Blood. That was enough to get the ball rolling when you already had a bunch of players that liked the game and wanted to keep playing. I just don't see how you'd get people to go online in a game they don't care about, which is why a strong singleplayer campaign is a great way to get a foot in the door

>>719972321
https://youtu.be/RFnazAsMOQI

>>719902465 (OP)
All units must have a healthbar, even complex units in modern setting like tanks and other vehicles, calculating the valor of the armor, range and angles is completely superfluous and is one of the reasons consumer's don't buy rts anymore, a stewart light tank if given enough time should be able to destroy a tiger heavy tank, Men Of War 2™ had the right idea

>>719970986
AoE2 is just a horrible RTS when played at a very high level
it's way too fucking unbalanced meaning you have four real choices
the gameplay relies on rote memorisation of building orders
there is absolutely no strategy involved, it's a game solely about making less mistakes than your enemy during the five minutes each round lasts

>>719972623
>You just need to allow people to create what they want
This is literally AAA corpo speak that has funded countless doomed projects. No, you do not make a platform that exists just to be a platform. Almost every successful platform for community content in videogame history has been built out of something that was independently popular, and the counter examples are very sparse and had unique circumstances.
>Starcraft
I cannot fathom being so deluded you point at Starcraft as an example of why you should focus on custom content and singleplayer over multiplayer.
>I just don't see how you'd get people to go online in a game they don't care about
You can't, obviously. You get them to go online by actually making something people can care about. You make an RTS with multiplayer people ACTUALLY want to play. You focus on the multiplayer.
Look at Broken Arrow. It's one of the larger RTS releases in a good while, and enjoyed pretty reasonable playercounts on steam and success. Then the playercount fell off a cliff, because the game was buggy as fuck and support was slow, due to the huge drain that modability and singleplayer content had obviously placed on the company's resources. Everything desyncs and barely works and cheating is comically easy and insidious due to the client-side infrastructure set up to support modded games. People stop playing, game is dying.
>which is why a strong singleplayer campaign is a great way to get a foot in the door...
Nobody fucking plays singleplayer campaigns to RTS anymore. They're a toy for people who were never going to spend more than an hour or two on the game anyway. EVERY fucking RTS that releases has campaigns, and nobody even bothers to try them. And no, it's not because "durr they're all just bad", it's because an RTS campaign is a thoroughly outdated concept and one with little appeal to anyone who isn't a child.

>>719972941
>how to pack as much wrong into one post as possible

>>719973046
Which RTS is good for that?

>>719973046
>You're going to eventually figure out the best orders to build things in for the early game
>THIS MEANS THE ENTIRE GAME IS ROTE MEMORIZATION
I hate coping retards so fucking much

Dune II clones are a FAILED GENRE. The most strategically complex but also real time games are now Factorio (it's like Terran vs. Zerg but you actually build real factories whose inner workings you can see), Foxhole, EVE online, and Rust (it's like Age of Empires but requires actual intelligence and social skills to build your empire). Dune II clones meanwhile are dead and deserve to be so, even MOBAs are more cerebral.

>>719926052
All the studios involved probably bit off far more than they could chew with releasing four and a half remasters plus DLC in the span of 6-7 years.

>>719974173
Or maybe you should have a game without a best order or the best order is so simple to pull off noone gives a fuck. That's too hard for you to understand though.

>>719909543
Fire emblem

Never ever have another kino RTS hack and slash hybrid like KuF

fug

>>719974809
>Or maybe you should have a game without a best order
There is no one best order. There are multiple different strategies that work better or worse against each other and in varying situations.
>or the best order is so simple to pull off noone gives a fuck
You are literally just whining that the game should be dumbed down because you don't want to learn any strategy for a real time strategy game.
There is no strategy game without a meta. The very idea is absurd.

>>719973565
>This is literally AAA corpo speak
If you read the rest of my sentence you'll see what I mean. I wasn't making an argument for letting the users create all the content, but for not stifling creativity in the way corporations do. Basically, don't ban DBZ or fucking Demon Slayer maps because of IP rights
>Starcraft
As someone who played StarCraft extensively back when, I can tell you that 75% of the player base didn't give a shit about ranked and the remaining 25% still played other modes. Not once did anyone in my class ask what rank I was in, but boy did we talk about custom maps. Even more so for WC3, where custom games were what 90% of people did
>You focus on the multiplayer
Multiplayer will, obviously, give longevity to the game. But most people don't care about RTS as is, so why should they run to a new one that's multiplayer focused? You need other games modes (co-op, team battles), custom rules (no rush, excessive resources (there was a whole genre of $$$ maps for SC)) and custom maps. Most people simply don't care for RTS PvP as it's stressful and hard to learn (in comparison to something like Marvel Rivals or Fortnite)
>Look at Broken Arrow
I'm guessing it was early access? The campaign should be there on release, as it also works as a tutorial and to prepare a player for multiplayer. If you already have a multiplayer community, I wouldn't bother with it at all. It's not a requirement, but a good value proposition to get people to pick up your game in the first place
>Nobody fucking plays singleplayer campaigns to RTS anymore
No-one fucking plays RTS in general anymore, isn't that the whole issue? "How do we fix the RTS genre?" and your answer is "change nothing"?

>>719975543
Do you have any idea how insanely easy openings are in some RTS?

Do this
again
bigger

>>719976919
40k is a garbage franchise
totally co-opted

>>719976919
Soulstorm already happened and it was shit.

Reminder that listening to veterans is the worst thing you can do when it comes to developing difficulty scaling for a RTS, because you'll end up with a game that can only be beat by players with 20+ years of experience - at normal difficulty.

This is why Mental Omega in one particular aspect sucked, they listened to 200 APM veterans that haven't stopped playing C&C since it came out.

>>719914012
Yeah, low elo legends is my fav aoe2 series

>>719938972
>enter
>call of duty 1,2,3,4[…]
>battlefield 1942,2,[…]
All rehashes of the same thing. Nothing is stopping devs doing the same thing

>>719946440
Holy based.

>>719947802
Gookclikers and Jungloids are not people.

>>719978129
Shit you want more of the same from the same devs, Look no further than Sandlot and the EDF series. Minor gameplay changes between titles but it's still just shooting big ass insects and UFOs with increasingly retarded weaponry. If the game is fun, more of it is usually what people want.

>>719943375
looks amazing, i have always wanted a non linear grand strategy type RTS

>>719976919
Something I particularly like in Mindustry is how in main campaign while you have that huge segmented overworld map with separate locations as battlefields, you're never really bound to one particular location and can freely travel to another one at any given time, and most of your conquered zones can be attacked, all zones always remain active gathering resources and fighting off enemies.
I'd love to see something like this executed in a proper RTS, where you not only need to capture the territory, but also setup proper defenses in case it gets attacked and resource gathering to help the global effort, and potentially expand captured territories with new tech as you progress.

>>719926503
Disney ever making anything good with the SW loicence.

You gotta be insane if you think these jews are up to good.

>>719947802
Right is a failure state, left is playing the game at a point where it has a lot of downtime.

>>719978871
Dark crusade does it, that's why I didn't like Soulstorm.
I don't spend that much time building bases so it all goes nowhere when someone attacks

>>719973565
>Nobody fucking plays singleplayer campaigns to RTS anymore.

Yet Tempest Rising somehow sold about 300k copies...

>>719925340
the reason you don't get these complaints is because you're a sweaty incel who has no concern for your wrist health and want to feel good about the fact that you've spent thousands of hours mastering muscle memory for that one specific RTS you enjoy playing.

personally, i like ordering around small humans on a screen to gather resources and attack enemies. and i'd like to be able to do that with fewer intensive clicks and wrist flicking. such as during the age of mythology retold open beta when autoqueue was available for everything.

unfortunately, they removed autoqueue from ranked matchmaking, and as a consequence the game died an ignominious death within months of release, with fewer players than all other Age Of- games.

>>719973565
you're telling me AoE2 has 200+ campaign scenarios (and more will be added) and nobody plays them?

>>719924310
>>719925340
>>719979467
The only successful RTS game is AoE2, and this will remain the case until devs stop listening to neetbux discord tranny lobbyists pushing devs to "make the game esports friendly."

>>719968708
>They are also a massive goddamn drain on development resources.
I don't see how when you end up using the same tools the developers used.

>>719979573
Compared to the amount of people playing multiplayer? Yes, it's fucking nobody.

>>719971452
Rise of Nations sucks. It's an RTS for people who hate RTS games.

>do you mean I have to learn to play the game?
>there are optimal ways to win?
>and I cant do the same thing and always win?
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
stick with mario party or mario kart? you just hate RTSs

>>719979742
Heres the thing retard. Every SP campaign sold and played for 2 hours is worth as much as your 20000 hour play time, you're not making the company money by playing their game.

If you only bought the DLCs for the civs you wanna play and someone went out and bought all of them for campaigns, you're literally worth less.

Games don't need to be perpetually played forever to be good or profitable.

Look at rimworld thats basically an RTS with more base building and less combat. A strictly SP afair played by tons of people.

If people only cared about game play then 8bit and 9bit armies would be selling like hotcakes.

It's not, the thing that made CnC memborable was the insane soul the factions and units had. Without that soul and brand and identity they're jackshit.

>>719905176
>>719907806
>>719912763
>>719949816
>>719979586
>ESPORTS ESPORTS ESPORTS ESPORTS ESPORTS
Where are these fucking esports RTS games? What fucking reality do you retards live in where this is the bulk of RTS game releases?

>>719980047
It's RTS for people who like 4x and thats exactly how it was marketed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngWP9Rk5X_o

God I miss intros like this I watched this at least 100 times as kid. The music, the implication, the amazing scenes. God it's one of the best intros for an RTS ever up there with Red Alert 2.

>>719979467
guarantee whatever RTS you play needs 2x more actions compared to BAR or ZK to do the same exact shit unless it's some auto battler thing that plays itself for you

this is why I don't get it. the playerbase complaint is null because both aren't playing in the same lobbies. the gameplay complaint is also hilarious because the RTS games you shitters consider "casual" is often times more clunky to play than some UI/UX dogshit like SC2, and the only reason there aren't 300APM gooks in those games is because there are no $100k prizes to win

>>719979586
How old are you 15? 16?

Did you sleep through the Gom.TV era of Starcraft being on mainstream national South Korean televison?
Did you sleep through the entire WC3 and SC2 scene as well?

>>719980148
>actual redditspacing
Please stop typing like a retard.
>Every SP campaign sold and played for 2 hours is worth as much as your 20000 hour play time
If you really think there are more people buying the latest AoE2 expansions for the singleplayer campaigns instead of the factions for multiplayer you are beyond delusional. People who are attached to a game are the people who buy more of a game. They throw in campaigns too because the framework is there and they're dirt cheap, nothing more.
>Look at rimworld
Rimworld is not a fucking RTS in any way and you're retarded if you don't see how it's fundamentally different. It also completely lacks a campaign in the RTS sense entirely.
>If people only cared about game play then 8bit and 9bit armies would be selling like hotcakes.
Did I say that people only care about gameplay? Also no, because the gameplay in those trite and overdone very basic RTS is very overdone. I am not saying that RTS games need to sit here and not change, because they already aren't selling. I'm saying they actually need to innovate and push towards better, more unique multiplayer driven gameplay.
>the thing that made CnC memborable
Something being "memorable" doesn't equate to it actually selling in the here and now. Doubly so in the algorithm driven reality of the modern era. You need people playing and engaging with your game. It's the ONLY way to drive sales and long term growth. In RTS, the only way to achieve that is with multiplayer.