Thread 719902465

How do we fix the RTS genre?

What is there to fix?

more fairies

.

>>719903002
Sure. Cute RTSes is a very unexplored niche.

>>719903207
>JUST BUFF THEM ALREADY

>>719902465 (OP)
Retvrn to Tradition of being half city builders half SupCom like games and remove the concept of hero units.

RTS wasn't made for sweaty Esports, it was made for me to chill behind 30 layers of walls with my English Longbows.

Turn based, you know it's the solution. The only way to incorporate strategy into the game. You don't want to play RTS, that's only for smashing armies together so no need to half ass pretend to have strategy like in all the RTS games.

>>719905176
agreed hero units ruined rts and td games.

>>719903207
>>719904637
yes. they need a buff.

>>719902465 (OP)
automate the economy

Make the single-player worth the price. APM sweaters ruined the entire genre.

>>719903002
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egxzPAywNEs

>>719903992
soulless

>>719902465 (OP)
go watch a pro game of aoe2 and telll me where it looks fun

more slow burn turtlekino armyludo logistics economizing and corny live action FMVs, less gookclick

>>719905324
this
I still need to beat Dawn of the Dukes and the historical battles

We really need a new WB with even more races and units.

>>719903992
/thread

>>719905854
>black forest
>map size: gigantic
>3 opponents
Turtle mode king

>>719905791
this, gookclicking killed rts

like dis

>>719905324
Yup. People point to SC2's multiplayer all the time, yet forget its assload of singleplayer campaign content on top of a good editor suite to make/mod your own campaigns.
Same can be said for AoE2; the factions aren't quite as distinct, but there's a fuckload of scenarios to do. The majority of RTS enjoyers play singleplayer most of the time.

>>719902465 (OP)
>like 30+ RTS games releasing in the next 1-2 years
>Tons of styles, innovations and takes on the genre be it PvE or PvP
>Old games being remastered faithfully
>Broodwar still popping the fuck off 25 years later

What needs fixing exactly? Be you casual or be you hardcore, realize we are in a golden age for RTS games.

>>719906258
>>like 30+ RTS games releasing in the next 1-2 years
name 5 promising ones

>>719905176
Agreed. If I can't make an impenetrable fortress of Tesla Coils or Prism Towers, I don't want to play.

>>719903992
last time i played that, i tried to make a seige mode.
>set limit timer
>barely get a few buildings setup, the resource management is a bad joke
>by the time i built a few units and the timer went down, the enemy had a large army ready
>they send them in a single straight line towards my base
>they phase through the giant cliff and walled mountains
>trash my base while my units are out of position on the slope
Piece of shit game, it'll always be shit. The Scouring is a better game.

>>719906417
skill issue

>>719906335
See
>Old games being remastered faithfully

>>719905176
>half SupCom like games and remove the concept of hero units.
Tell me anon what is your commander if not a hero unit?

>>719906553
its objectively inferior to even Supcom2 (which i like alot).

DOW:DE gives me hope that Sega will one day remaster the Supcom games, especially 2, so i can play them without them crashing from lack of ram.

>>719906335
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2587620/Dinolords/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1605850/ZeroSpace/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1486920/Tempest_Rising/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1328990/Godsworn/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1426450/Age_of_Darkness_Final_Stand/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/3338950/The_Scouring/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2638690/Empire_Eternal/

Two of these games already released so I included 2 more :)

>>719903002
For me it's spamming F1 as a necromancer to
>ARISE
>ARISE
>ARISE
>ARISE FROM THE EARTH

>>719906149
dis nuts

>>719903002
>>719907434
so many cool units

>>719902465 (OP)
Go back on making cool single player campaigns and forget fucking esports

>>719906827
godsworn looks pretty good, thanks anon

>>719907871
its two people developing the game but progress has been steady. Its a goodie for sure.

>>719907434
or spamming upgrade on one skeleton to
>i am stronger
>i am muuuch stronger
>I AM INVINIBLEEEE

>>719906827
Already had tempest espresso by on my wishlist but added age of darkness and empire eternal as well, thanks anon!

My life long wish to have another of me to play RTS with.

Man, I need to play Red Alert again.

>>719908550
>play SupCom MP for the first time with a buddy
>had a time of my life
>"Nah, man, I don't want to spend a lot of time learning another game"
Fucking normies, I swear

I always thought that somebody somewhere would do a rts mmo where guilds / factions / countries territories were decided on pvp and pve matches with all the rewards being purely cosmetic to keep the balance.

speed it up
add heroes with lots of skills you can hotkey
lose units
lose bases

oh wait

>>719905598
>go watch a pro game of aoe2
Why would anyone do that?

>>719908934
To make a point on 4chan.

the savior of the RTS gente!

We need a singleplayer only RTS with a campaign where your choices matter, your units carry over from mission to mission, different mission paths to choose from etc.

if you like solo rts why not just play city builders, 4x or gsg? singleplayer rts is like playing singleplayer fighting games

>>719909543
Homeworld can get you 1 out of 3 of those requests you made. Don't touch the 3rd game though. It's shit.

Have a map editor bare minimum, letting people make their own minigames, maps, etc. in a decent game will make it last way longer.

>>719909637
Do 80 to 90% of fighting game players only play single player?

>>719906827
I thought you were full of shit, but they do actually exist.

>>719909637
Getting into an rts is a little easier I find, but I really enjoy those genres anyway.

>>719902465 (OP)
>fix
No need. I want more sidegrade games for increased variety. Think Battle Realms. Perimeter, Dragonshard, etc.

>>719909637
>singleplayer rts is like playing singleplayer fighting games
more fun?

>>719902465 (OP)
more coop

>>719906827
>Tempest Rising

I've been playing that. It's a little too faithful a rendition of Command and Conquer that it just made me want to play CnC 3 again. Because it feels the most like that one in particular, with the serial numbers filed off. No 3rd faction though sadly, even though they do show up in the campaign. Also no subfactions either, so it still feels very bare bones, but the campaign is long, reasonably hard, and has some replayability thanks to custom modifiers you can equip to improve units or your economy.

>>719906697
My commander is very weak, dies nerely instantly to boolet but he is beyond vital to the success of the campaign so the mission instantly fails if he dies.
If I'm a unit on the field then it's an escort mission. But I'm also controlling all the units so my contributions exceed everyone else.

Make every unit absolutely lethal. Get rid of this damage-sponge nonsense: it puts too much control over pacing in the hands of the gameplay designer and less in the hands of the player.

I recommend They are Billions

Just stay away from multiplayer RTS slop. This is how you save the genre.

>>719906827
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2638690/Empire_Eternal/
Wishlisted.

>>719910373
>They are Billions

>>719910373
?
Multiplayer is literally what keep games alive

I wish I had played more WC3 on battlenet. I took it for granted that it would always be there and blizzard wouldn't deliberately destroy the game.

>>719909637
>singleplayer rts is like playing singleplayer fighting games
For me it was Tekken 3 and 5

>>719906827
dank

>>719908934
exactly

>>719910535
It literally brought them to a near extinction.

>>719910118
>play UA with the hardcore setting on
>HP dropped by 125% across the board
>a stray grenade or a wild strafing run is enough to oneshot entire battalions with no survivors
>artillery makes any form of large scale infantry maneuvers impossible to do without tying everyone to their own APCs

>>719902465 (OP)
We need more clicks per planck seconds.

let's talk about how rts games with harvester units are superior to other types. first they improve the game by making you choose between economic and military units. a game with control point based economy like company of heroes doesn't have the boom vs rush dynamic that a game with harvesters does. secondly they force you to go out onto the map to obtain resources. games like total annihilation where you can build 100 metal income buildings in the corner of your base don't have this kind of impetus and have a much more stale metagame as a result. all of the best rts games have harvester units. it's ok if you disagree, but you are wrong.

wololo

>>719911039
I especially like Battle Realms where your harvester peasant also doubles also raw recruit for military units. So you're constantly balancing economy vs recruitment, and losses are can snowball.

>>719902465 (OP)
Just make a total war: warhammer 40k already instead of more faggy ass fantasy

>>719906827
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2638690/Empire_Eternal/
Looks neat, hopefully it will be at least as good as Rise of Nations
Why the fuck is Steam showing recent and English scores instead of recent and overall ones

>>719910784
Literally keep them alive
How out of reality can you be?
Do you unironically believe all this people play the campaigns over and over again?
Just look at twich and see all they play multiplayer.

>>719911303
>Do you unironically believe all this people play the campaigns over and over again?
Didn't the devs outright confirm that

>>719911237
I suppose the main challenge is the aerial and orbital shit.

>>719911237
faggot retards already have relic and their shitty remake fuck off

>>719909637
They're called beat 'em ups and they're based.

>>719911303
I would like you to look up how many campaigns AoE2 DE has received.

>>719902465 (OP)
Give unit commands a 5 second delay. This eliminates retarded micro battles and puts a stronger emphasis on strategy, planning and scouting. It's also much more realistic because in real life you can't give instant commands to armies.

>>719909543
This

>>719911351
No... the last DLCs don't even have campaigns just a few scenarios to learn the new shit.

>>719909543
You basically want a RTTs instead.

>>719911452
retarded idea, koreans will just micro 5 seconds into the future. Nothing will change except everyone else will be extremely pissed off and turned off

>>719906827
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2363060

>>719911452
you can simulate this by turning the latency setting to very high. it fucking sucks.

>>719911379
If they made it, it should be an asymmetrical game where deep striking/teleporting into or behind enemy lines should be the norm.

>>719911643
>no longer available on steam

What happened?

>>719911643
>We have got it to run on a Raspberry Pi. Linux binaries will be released in the future.

>>719902465 (OP)
God, the bronze age aesthetic of the original AoE1 is still unmatched

>>719911237
this but DUNE wtf are you suppose to do in the world map in a 40k setting? its not like lineage is a thing and trading resources in warhammer is just pottery = gold and the alliances barley matter since its MUh grimDORk war with everyone.

>>719911423
Well that's more to do because how easy it is to add "campaigns" to that game. They just play out like skirmishes. In other games there's a story and then the game plays around that. In AOE2 there's the game and... then the story just some text about it.

In Warcraft 3 they actually managed to have a real story and missions that are built around the story because they had hero units and abilities.

>>719911636
It would be impossible.

>>719911731
It sucks only because you want to control your units the same way as if you had no latency.

>>719911868
>It would be impossible.
for (you).

>>719911452
That's just Strategos.

>>719911868
no it sucks because no game is fun to play when it's lagging

I want more games like Battle Realms

>>719912060
That is a nice ass, though.

>>719911303
Age of Wonders 4 doesn't really have a campaign so much as a series of curated "story realms" that bounce around with big leaps in difficulty. You can get through the first 2 using the same faction, then will have to start minmaxing to get the best results as the 3rd has battlemaps hit you (and the enemy) with bouts of madness. Nothing like losing control of your units who then hit the nearest target, which will usually be your other units. It's not great and the game hinges on the ridiculous amounts of customization.

>>719903992
mogged by Zero-K

>>719912232
t.

>>719911303
Where are the new games, where are the new players, the innovation, the creativity - everything's been streamlined, dumbed-down, e-sportified, stagnant, and eventually just fucking died and the only thing you have to show for is a bunch of polished ancient fossils and you say this is fine. And it's not just RTS that's dealing with this problem of excessive focus on multiplayer.

>>719909637
SC2 had all of 20% of the entire playerbase ever touch ladder. That's why they made as much coop content as they did, it was one way that had some success to get the majority of players to bother to stick around and keep playing the game. Lot of people just sort of like the video game version of playing with a bucket of army men (and whatever else you had). Shit like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWtNv7YlonY

>>719911850
>the original
Not really. Now that I played the remaster I can see the original looks like complete shit in comparison, the remaster is the standard now. I'll always be grateful that the studio didn't focus on AoE 2 exclusively and they did AoE 1 justice.

>>719911867
>They just play out like skirmishes. In other games there's a story and then the game plays around that.
I honestly don't see the difference, and I don't even think I'm being a pedantic retard arguing for the sake of arguing. WC3 does have some continuity going on because of the hero units keeping their experience levels and items, but that's about it.

>>719909447
this shit is already dead bro

>>719902465 (OP)
More single player content.
PvP is zoomer shit. Pikmin is the most popular RTS by a lot for a reason

>walks menacingly towards your base

what do you do in this situation

>>719912371
This stat was mostly from the fact that sc2 f2p didn't let you play RANKED multiplayer.

>>719909543
Gates of Hell campaign mode

>>719912543
wc3 also had diablo like missions and units could do much more than just be numbers against enemy numbers. There was dialogue and events everywhere. aoe2 campaign when I played I just remember it being skirmish after skirmish. Game starts build base destroy enemy base(s) and that's all there is.

>>719912624
This. Old RTS campaigns were the main draw, not esports for people with ADHD.

>>719911807
Nearly got suicided with three shots because he was putting things in the game that he wasn't supposed to.

>>719910574
Name the most fun you ever had playing a custom map on WC3 guys. And if you say DOTA, kys.

for me its a toss up between Warlock and Build a Sentence;
>used to play at a Lan cafe back in the day
>great vibes, became friends with a bunch of random nerds from different backgrounds/tastes etc
>sometimes we'd all come together to play WC3 customs
>Warlocks was INSANELY good and tight in lan with no lag
>8+ players in a map with no lag, incredible fun

>try Build a Sentence one day on bnet
>people hear me pissing myself laughing while typing, not actively playing
>tell them
>they insist we all play 1 round together, 12 of us
>we played it for like 2 hours straight
>2 of the group were literally dyslexic and couldnt pick the right words
>sentences like "The faggot dicksmoker Forehead(guys nickname at the cafe) sucks faggot dicks tomorrow"
>we weren't even drunk but we were in tears

>>719912338
Falling Frontier (if it ever comes out)

weird how people will say that old rts games were better because they were focused on single player and not eatsports, but all of the rts games that ever had big eatsports scenes were the same games that get praised for having good campaigns. if you ask them what these games that supposedly killed rts by overfocusing on multiplayer they will say starcraft 2 even though it had a ton of single player content or games like dawn of war 3 or c&c 4 that were just plain dogshit no matter what the focus was on. then they turn around and praise bar even though it doesn't even have a campaign.

>>719907806
based

>>719911850
It had this certain feel to it. For me it is also the synth music.

>>719912310
How so?
Looks and plays far worse

Imagine asking your friend to play a video game and then they start sperging something about WTFBROESPORTSLOLOMGXDD

>>719911303
>a single digit percentage of the people that bought the games keep playing them for years
and that's being 'kept alive'? how?

here's the deal, retard-kun, this doesn"t bring in money
this does not appeal to publishers
this does not appeal to anyone wanting to spend any money on the genre
do you know why? because how the fuck are you meant to make your money back?

the multiplayer aspect is a meme, it's all just the usual minority voicing their pointless opinion that doesn't matter because in the end, you don't bring them more money than any other purchase would, you're not special for it, quite the opposite because when they decide to release a sequel, then you might end up sticking to the old game instead of spending money on the new one
now, I understand the feeling, but from a business perspective, you're absolutely fucking retarded and yes, you're the reason the genre is dead, because the people that did want to make money looked at your retarded ass and thought 'hey how about we shove a bunch of microtransactions and add a bunch of retarded online only services to make more money from them' and then everyone fucking hated it and the genre died, and you're still here showing pictures from games that released decades ago with barely any numbers to them as if it's a proof that 'this is why the genre is alive', when clearly, if it was alive, your screenshot wouldn't be showing a single fucking game that released within the decade

fucking faggot, bring back single player focused campaigns and you can get fucked

>>719913191
>1hp buildings
fucking pass. you are a nigger. a nigger.

>>719905598
Its more fun to watch shitters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdaHICeAptM

>>719914012
these guys videos commentating low elo matches are pure kino
it's so fun watching people come up with wacky strategies
like that one guy that rushes to to the enemy base and walls them off kek

>>719913992
>having a playerbase?
>noooooo you must keep coomzooming
Just say you hate RTSs and stick with city builders

>>719912338
Here
https://youtu.be/nnjBjDc4_Uk

>>719913992
ok so you don't want people playing the same game for 20 years because it's good. you want rts to turn into ubislop where you spend $80 on a game so you can play the campaign once and then uninstall it.

>>719902465 (OP)
Make them singleplayer only. Discourage moba and horde/base defense centric games/mechanics.

>>719913992
>multiplayer isn't profitable
Whatever you do don't look it up or your cloud castle will fall apart.

>>719914220
>wanting new video games for a genre to stay alive = consooming
you probably don't even realize how many layers of cope you're under

>>719914380
>noooooo every single games out there MUST have six hundred hours of content and I must be able to play it over and over and over again!!!!
actual nigger, literally why we have so much open world slop and the 'ubislop' you're whining about, the reason why asscreeds are fucking shit now (and most other open world) is PRECISELY because your kind of niggers kept whining that they wanted the games to have more things in it to do, and this lead to the '6th out 600!! keep exploring the map to find them all!!' and retarded crafting systems festering everywhere

yes, video games are meant to be experienced and enjoyed and you're meant to move on afterwards and not be stuck doing it over and over again, mind you, if you're just another retarded autist (which you clearly are, or you wouldn't be defending the usual RTS multiplayer trash) then please do as you will, I'm not your mom you faggot
but expecting people to enjoy this shit, expecting HUMANS that don't use your bug-like brainwaves and whose frontal lobe doesn't get tickled by sending a specific amount of peons collecting wood and having ultra efficient build orders and looking at your APM, is fucking foolish to say the least
you're a dying breed and you keep trying to act as if the reason why all these games as so fucking trash isn't you and your desire for multiplayer to be the focus, when, clearly, if you add any amount of fucking logic to the equation, it's really not rocket science

the genre is dead because multiplayer is trash, that's all there is to it, now give me the warcraft 4 that could've been, you fucking nigger

>>719913992
>this does not appeal to publishers
>this does not appeal to anyone wanting to spend any money on the genre

>>719914968
>subject is whether the genre is alive or not
>nooo look at these drinking age old games
>nigger
>wtf no that doesn't count, I don't even care anyways, not my problem!!!
nigger

>>719914865
lmao melty

>>719912643
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XehNK7UpZsc&t=250s
The 20% number was before it went f2p, which probably didn't help but Blizzard probably assumed it wouldn't and was fine with it. SC2 also has way better ranked participation than most rts games, which makes sense but also sucks.

>>719913404
CnC3 was funny cause they made an esport push but let multi-player balance impact single-player, so if you don't use a fan patch you end up with that turret tutorial mission where rebalances made it so the units you're supposed to hold off were changed to hard counter turrets (outranged them). Also they had (imo) pretty shitty map design, they'd try to address mass X spam being meta but basically ignored all the large wide open areas pretty much all maps had. Meanwhile the campaign missions made use of chokepoints to force you to not mass spam things.

Just let it fucking die not everything should exist forever

>>719915384
>there's no way to monetize them
how fucking fat is this guy?

>>719915450
I will exist forever.

>>719915384
the complaints are just stupid because good rts didn't stop getting made because of eatsports, they stopped getting made because all of the good rts developers died and their replacements were total retards who would have still failed at making a single player only game.

>>719902465 (OP)
"real time" and "strategy" is kinda strange combination if you ask me... strategy is something you ponder and plan while smoking a pipe, while real time is something that gets the blood pumping and needs quick reaction times
>>719909543
try pic rel

>>719913106
I was a tryhard. I played 1v1 ladder.

>>719913794
designwise it mogs, but lookswise it's mogged

>>719912625
build handcannoneers which are my favorite unit.

>>719912625
*loads cannon*

>>719902465 (OP)
>How do we fix the RTS genre?
I found this shilled on the google while searching to help this anon >>719909543
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF3mjKigSg0
i must say it looks pretty heckin good

>>719909447
Incredibly ugly looking game. It's a good thing it never took off

>>719902465 (OP)
>tfw it will never be 1998 again
>you will never play war2 over kali all day, every day in the summer
>you will never hear a 36.6 modem handshake again
It hurts bros.

>>719902465 (OP)
Red Alert 2 Remastered

>>719906417
>Things that never happened should raise my internet creds

>>719903992
BAR is objectively one of the best RTS ever made and it's impressive that it even exists, free or not
I've had so much fun with this game ever since I discovered it and it just got better and better

>>719902465 (OP)
Custom games and use map settings. 1v1 and sweat clicking makes a weak e sport

>>719922687
nice 15 APM unc

>>719902465 (OP)
Do the only logical thing.

Combine it with a fighting game.

>>719923059
2bh most BAR players play like that near the end
after you reach the endgame your brain starts rotting then you just zoom out and do move commands and watch stuff blowing up

>>719923576
>have to do a 720 to build your best unit
>attack move is a 1 frame link

>>719923654
This could actually work for an information gated style game, figuring out how to make a campaign that supports this style of gameplay loop could be a bit tough though

>>719902465 (OP)
>How do we fix the RTS genre?
We need to wait for the current generation of incel sweatlord gen x and millennials playing them to die, and then for autoqueue to become the norm. Then the RTS genre will have a revival.

>>719924310
I don't get these complaints

sweatlords don't play with casuals
casuals don't play with sweatlords
casuals don't like playing competitive modes
sweatlords don't like playing casual modes

literally what is the fucking issue? when you enter a multiplayer RTS game you clearly see the divide, there is no overlap and when it happens both sides hate it and quickly go back to their bubble

>>719902465 (OP)
FAF

>>719925340
>literally what is the fucking issue?
The devs focusing nearly exclusively on only one of these groups

>>719925639
who?
at least all games with lobbies have divides between sweatlords and casuals

>>719925340
Sweatlords push for extremely shitty RTS styles for casuals while also destroying their wrists. That's the problem.

>>719925340
the problem is that the casuals think that they deserve to win even though they are casual. they think "I'm a smart person and in strategy games the smartest person should always win so if I can't win the game isn't strategic." it doesn't matter if the matchmaking ensures that they never have to play against people they don't want to, they see the mere fact that it placed them in wood league as an insult to their perceived intelligence.

It needs to progress and not be held back via nostalgia it has to do new things sure within the realm of the genre but it can't just be slop.

>>719925783
or do the old thing better, just make sure it's not literal cancer.(they will fail this)

>>719925702
>lobbies
Anon, the MP audience is the sweatlords unless the game has shit like co-op

>>719911039
What the fuck are you talking about? Metal makers are less efficient than expanding and building mexes by a huge margin.

>>719925847
nowadays the big things are metroidvania and rpgs, and ofc fps, perhaps console gamer's fault.

>>719925901
also
>>>/vst/

>>719925703
so you're saying that casuals never enjoyed playing starcraft, warcraft 3, or age of empires 2? which alternate universe are you from?

>AoE3 DE flopped
>AoM Retold flopped
>AoE4 flopped

AoM will get a DLC because of legal obligations but all of the money that was going to be used in these games is now going towards making more AoE2 content. Make of that what you will

Love these guys like you wouldn't believe

>>719925703
what RTS is considered "casual style"? most over here would say BAR is sweatlord tier but its QoL is better than basically any RTS

>>719925853
only extremely niche ones have exclusive sweatlord MP, other games with a decent playerbase have casual MP (they literally never become better even after years of playing, so it's their own bubble), and sweatlord MP

>>719902465 (OP)
Age of Empires gacha

>>719926119
>years of playing
>casual
Anon please...

>>719926230
ok you must be mega casual if you think a perpetual silver tier nigga is sweatlord because he played for 3 years

>>719926038
In multiplayer? No. They also have a lot less tolerance for that type of RTS now.

>still no Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds for modern machine
welp

>>719926150
Already happened
With command and conquer too

>check stormgate in jewtube
>it looks like a lame and gay version of starcraft+warcraft

How the fuck did they even fuck up with their faction and unit design?

>>719913106
Jurassic Park Survival for solo play
Fight of Characters for Lan

>>719905196
wouldnt making it turn based just make it the same as like fire emblem or something?

>>719911010
Is UA designed from the outset with the hardcore setting? Artillery should always depend on intel, which should have it's own line of dependencies, and all capable of being targeted.

>>719907434
Same. Undead was omega god tier just because of the dope unit voices.

>>719909543
>RTS with a campaign where your choices matter, your units carry over from mission to mission,
that sounds like shit. the gameplay works better when its on a mission by mission basis.

>>719905176
>>719905250
> remove the concept of hero units
Why?

>>719926385
but casuals supposedly don't play multiplayer anyway

>>719906149
>click the webbum
>think to myself (Your Anal Nightmare), "hmm this looks kinda cool"
>search it
>pic related
wtf is this

>>719906827
>steam
No Switch (physical) no buy

>>719902736
The genre desperately needs to catch up with Supreme Commander. I don't want to be stuck low zoom and clicking on my minimap. I also think a commander is the best start and playthrough (MP).

Multiplayer is where the money is. See esports.

Also, there's nothing like watching a Gyle cast of FAF, in all of casting. FAF has such variety of units and buildings, while being extremely recognizable (frigates, destroyers, battleships).

Engimod is stupid though. Cheap secondary factories is too chaotic.

>>719926108
theyre a fun unit.

>>719926119
>BAR is sweatlord tier
Anyone that would say this just completely suck at videogames and misses the point

Picked up Ancestors:Legacy.
Melee focused CoH derivative isn't that bad.

I used to play AoE 1 with my grandpa in the early 2000s

Soundtrack takes me back to to those days
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xthHF_U3c0Q

>>719906827
cool

>>719906827
None of these graphically look any better than The Lord of the Rings: War of the Ring and that was released in 2003 ffs.

>>719903992
I don't want to watch boxes shooting boxes at other boxes thanks

>>719930873
I don't understand this obsession with zoom out you might as well use the minimap if you're going to zoom out so far everything turns into dots anyway.

>>719933342
then zoom in anon

>>719933608
>his RTS has 6 gorillions of factions
>all them are copy pasted or eachother with 1 unit (a reskin with singly different stats) or tech of diferencie

>>719933683
I just don't like RTS games where the units are all tanks and mechs and robots. Feels too arcadey for me and I can't get invested.

>>719933918
your game is league of legends, you can invest lots into each champion's skins

>>719902465 (OP)
Good single-player content with lots of varied objectives and scenarios that you would never see in a multiplayer game.

>>719934162
Don't be obtuse.

>>719934247
ok but, what if the commanders were anime waifu pilots and the game had story around it?

I'd prefer to play an RTS about an existing setting then feel compelled to embrace a new one. But like, make them good. If its westernslop I don't really care enough. Wasn't there a Guilty Gear rts? concepts like that, which fit into the larger story.

>>719934434
If the story is good I will now play your game.

>>719929446
Some absolute madman jap decided to make an RTS in RPGMaker engine. Surprisingly enough, it works decently well, though graphics look pretty awkward and the translation is incomplete.

>no dorf
youtube.com/watch?v=ZKX68Nx5xk0
This guy is making what you want.

>>719927280
the anime one? yeah i hated ASSFAGs but that one was actually fun, shame the devs were gooks who never bothered to make an english variant.

>>719935257
will it even be out this decade for a reasonable price?

>>719935479
Who knows it's already been in development for 10 years.

There is nothing to fix
Zoomers are little fucking bitches

>>719902465 (OP)
I was playing dawn of war remastered last night and it just isn't the same. These games need so much attention and practice to enjoy.

>>719910118
That makes the game more gookclick which is universally hated.
CoH with its cover system was a good way to model both lethality and tankiness. (Out of position? Die really quickly. In hard cover? You can check back on them in 3 business days.)

Incidentally one of the RTS games I recommend the most to beginners since that just reduces the APM requirement considerably for players that are good at the S part of RTS.

>>719902465 (OP)
Some RTS games are already enforcing a turtle phase to completely get rid of rushes, and let players access the whole tech tree before a game ends. I think there was that one indie with a night phase that forces you to recall all your units because a PvE encounter will try to wreck your base.

Small skirmishes during the day to have some player interaction, night phase to give you a reason to invest in defenses instead of more tempo. The PvE eventually lifts entirely and it goes back to classic RTS.

>>719933682
I find this interesting.
There are some players (who are wrong) who seem to have no issue with the minimap + main view dichotomy.
But for me its just totally insane. It feels kind of like the whole ARPG WASD thing. Years and years of "ARPGs can't work with WASD" and similar statements. Then games started doing them like last epoch and path of exile 2, and all of a sudden its like those two decades of insistence never happened.

So to answer your question and hopefully we can find some kind of understanding. Its not about zooming out all the way, though you occasionally do to get a good picture of the overall strategic situation (and certainly easier to see than having the whole map squashed into a 100x100 region of the screen), its more about being able to zoom out as much as you need to for a given situation. And its not just about being able to see that much, its about being able to actually control maneuvers and tactics at that zoom level. Sometimes you're microing T2 kbots to dodge OC so you're zoomed in close. Sometimes you're coordinating a tank column. Sometimes you're maneuvering bombers through an AA screen. These are all situations that require a different balance of fidelity vs situational awareness.

>Impossible Creatures
>Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds
>Star Wars: Empire at War
>Star Trek: Armada
>Star Trek: Armada II
>C&C 3: The Forgotten(briefly played at a friends house, only remember it for the Veinhole superweapon)
>Halo Wars


this is most of my experience with RTS

>>719923654
>have to do a 720 to build your best unit
THSC
Tony Hawk's Supreme Commander

>>719913106
It was playing a map called "Avoid the Rapist"
Think of Pass the Bomb but instead of a bombz it's a beacon that draws a hip thrusting Archimonde (idk the blue guy) to your location. If he gets to you, you explode into gore.

At first you can outrun him, but he gets faster and faster. His speed resets when he rapes.

>>719902465 (OP)
More single player and pve focused

>>719927913
You have range limits and line of sight to consider with the fog of war. You can do the equivalent of using maruader scouts as spotters to dictate where the fire missions should go but the standard artillery isn't capable of firing across the map outside of a Tier V magnus cannon or whatever they call it. Basically like a Paris Gun or Big Bertha bolted into a charcoal kiln that can hit a target anywhere on the map.

The game wasn't really designed with that idea in mind since most units between Tiers I to V will end up benchwarming when you have relics and super heavies hitting the field. Not including your CnC Generals level superweapons that can already wipe out entire swathes without the nerfed HP. I think it would work better on the smaller games where you have to be methodical with your placement and compositions. Another part to consider is that you can turn the whole thing into a turtle simulator by halving unit HP, doubling building and turrets while adjusting production speeds between 0.25x - 5x. Offsetting any deficits from the constant meat grinds.

I was doing it to see how bad it can get when applied at scale. Really puts into perspective just how fucked the average dude with a laser gun is. When you have to contend with all kinds of shit that can practically onshot you if you aren't careful. Even your metal bawkes can only take a couple of rounds head on before it implodes in a ball of fire.

install mental omega

>>719902465 (OP)
ABADACUS?

>>719938028
PROSTAGMA?

>>719935775
the idea is that between the main screen and the minimap you have all situations covered. if you can't manage with just those views you are probably doing something wrong like not using control groups.

>>719902465 (OP)
It already is.

>>719902465 (OP)
By getting ride of all of those competitive types, they are clearly a cancer on the genre.

>>719902465 (OP)
It's not going to change as long as "real time" means "as fast as possible".

>>719902465 (OP)
>How do we fix the RTS genre?
Doesn't need fixing.

>>719938170
The person clinging to this piece of shit game and posting every time the superior BAR (which isn't saying much) is posted is the most cringe shit ever
Nobody knows about your ass game for a reason. Let it go.

>>719912338
aoe2 perfected the genre, so all they can do now is just add more to that game. aoe4 was fucking terrible

>>719930873
>Multiplayer is where the money is. See esports.
you can esport a good game. good games have fun campaigns for solo and multiplayer, and good map tools. games that make it for esports before making a memorable, fun game are shit.

My biggest gripe how how the AI literally cheats on harder difficulty, and competitive multiplayer just isn't fun

>>719938863
That's kinda the problem, yeah. Genre was not only figured out but also perfected decades ago depending on what flavor of RTS you want. It's been nothing but the occasional experiment here and there which will never reach those heights. Simultaneously, you'll never get NEW players to go back and play those 20+ year old games simply because they're old.

>>719902465 (OP)
>Good Campaign and story
>Distinct factions
>Faction leaders with personalities
>Competent AI that aren't just cheaters
>Scenarios
>Map editor
>Co-Op
>Multiplayer

>>719911303
>Do you unironically believe all this people play the campaigns over and over again?
guilty

>>719902465 (OP)
SOUL

RTS could be so much more...

>>719905176
I love heroes in RTS

>>719939685
>when you learned more about world history from a videogame than you did from actual public schooling
Wew

>>719902465 (OP)
play the wacraft 3 custom campaign: The Scourge of Lordaeron Refined

>>719902465 (OP)
Either focus on city building or on controlling armies

>>719940841
Learning about the horrors of the g*rman menace during the Holocaust is more important than your irrelevant "history", chudcel.

>>719903992
Playing air is pretty comfy
>setup basic eco
>spam fighers to patrol friendly territory

>>719942573
>basically not existing

I think something like the Wikinger mod for Company of Heroes 2 is the peak. Its limited by the game's engine and stuff(Cant mod in new vehicles, have to just reskin existing models), not to mention CoH2 being poorly optimized, but a game like that as it's own thing would be sick.

>>719942573
>>719942636
I play ECO and it's comfy as well. And you get to play with the big guns before anyone else.
>Not existing
A good Air player does support frontlines with Shurikens or gunships and helps a simple push to become more than a simple push. An air player can finish a game with a simple bombing run and it can happen any moment into the match, given he has enough intel or helps with pushing. If the other Air player is countering this as he should and everyone goes lategame, the Air player is the backup ECO player and will start building anything anywhere due to having T2 air cons. You can be the engineer of the team as well.

>>719938697
I sure as fuck would want another command and conquer in this lifetime but that's not gonna happen

>>719906827
empire eternal looks so fucking cool

>>719943194
>>719938697
Tempest Rising is exactly that and you didn't went for it

>>719906827
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2610770/Dust_Front_RTS/