Thread 720078810

>Ian writes Sonic
>Focuses a little too much on his "cocky=cool" attitude while having an annoying habit of trying to make him redeem his villains but overall nothing too bad

>Ian writes Shadow
>Makes him too much of an asshole that doesn't learn from his mistakes and is too grumpy but again, nothing TOO bad as outside the comics he's still ok

>Ian writes Tails, Knuckles, etc
>No real damage or changes, has them acknowledge past mistakes and pretend like that counts for character growth but again overall, their characters are mostly kept intact

>Ian writes Amy
>Destroys her entire personality
>She CANNOT fight with her hammer anymore she MUST use her tarot cards
>In fact bring back a random throwaway line about her liking that shit and make it her entire thing now, she LOVES divinity and all that shit now
>She does NOT like Sonic, she respects him as a friend and he respects her. There is no chemistry between them anymore.
>The only thing Amy loves is to make the world a better place now.
>Amy's design is also abhorrent and MUST be changed into her Boom design. Sega won't let him but he'll get there eventually
>Amy cannot have any gag scenes she must be respected and treated like "one of the bros" 24/7 AND-
What in the ever loving fuck did Amy ever do to Ian? All his Archie run he has no problem with her and then the second IDW happens "Okay time to kill this bitch."

The moment Ian made Sonic call Amy his bestie was the death of her character

Americans ruin everything from Japan

>>720079096
You can say that again

Sonic was better when it had virtually no plot and everything was presented as a Kirby-esque fantasy world.

>>720079360
CreamGODS win again.

>>720079413
That was never the case.

>>720079413
t. Someone who hasn't played any Sonic game except like Sonic 1
Sonic's always had a plot

Ian has explicitly said that he has nothing to do with Amy's characterization, it all comes from SoA.

>>720078810 (OP)
no one fucking cares about the writing in these games

>>720079096
Sonic was made for Americans.

>>720079698
I think 2 and 3 were way better games overall, but 1 and CD were way more unique and abstract with the setting.

>>720079813
Literally all Sonic has going for it over Mario are story and characters.

>>720078810 (OP)
did they make Sonic's arms white again? a I seeing this right?

>>720079994
They were only blue for Sonic Boom which used completely different character designs made for a TV show.

The beginning of Amy getting toned down was Lost World. It then carried over into Boom and onwards.

>>720079887
This. Japanese people hate Sonic for some reason.

>>720079754
Uh huh
Just like how every time he writes something stupid "i-i-it's all SoA's fault!"
Remember when he petitioned to try and replace Amy's design with her Boom variant and Sega said no

>>720078810 (OP)
Ian sucks.

>>720078810 (OP)

Sega wants Amy to be in the main group because it's the current year(tm) and you need a token female on the roster.

Problem: Amy's relevance in previous games up to Lost World hinged on her forcing herself into the plot due to her Sonic boner, but that aspect of her character was flushed away in the beginning of the 2010s, so all she can do now is just spout platitudes about positivity and whatnot. They tried grafting "mysticism" onto her character with the fortune cards but it hasn't amounted to anything interesting yet.

>>720078810 (OP)
Probably doesn't like that Amy is the main girl of the series and Sonic's defacto love-interest even though they aren't official. In Archie, Amy was a side character while Sally was the main female and love interest to Sonic.

Those are games for literal 6 year olds you fucking morons. Are all americans mentally retarded and obsessed with nintendoshit or is it just minority of them? Reduce your estrogen levels faggots

It really disappoints me to know that the only thing the general public needs to think sonic is “cool” again is to just make him act like goku. The sonic of the 90s-mid 2000s will never return

https://youtu.be/zqjpAOyboB4
This is the worst cutscene he's ever wrote imo
>Tails out of nowhere asking if he's a burden when he knows damn well he isn't
>Acknowledging that he's been "le wildly inconsistent!" The past few games wink wink nudge nudge teehee...don't worry guys, Ian Flynn knows how you feel about Pontac's writing ;)
>Sonic just rambles off some "MEMBER WHEN!" member Berries so people can clap and go "YOOOOO! THEY REMEMBER THAT!!!!"
>touted as fucking character growth when it's just two characters standing around going "member?"
>Tails at the end of the game goes "I wanna travel the world on my own to build myself up without you!" Like he's done in SA1...and 2...and Heroes...and Shadow...and 06.....and Unleashed
>Every NPC dick sucks Ian for "fixing" Tails when there's nothing to fix, just don't have him he a coward like in Forces that's it.

>>720080159
You legally can't lie about a company you work for. If he was lying, they'd fire him

Silver got it worst
>Used to be a snarky but good hearted guy who knew when to step up and be a fighter
>Ian turns him into "OMGGEEEEE I WUV GARDENING! UWU I'M SO HAPPY TO BE FIGHTING ALONGSIDE WHISPER THE (OC)!!!! EEEEEEEEK, SOMEONE ALMOST STEPPED ON FLOWERBED!!!!! I HOPE I CAN BE A HERO SOMEDAY!"
And the fanbase clapped

>>720080079
they definitely made a push into removing Sonic's white arms because... i dunno, because fuck white people? i don't have an explanation why they did that except racism.

>>720079632
Cream The Rabbit? Don't mind if I Do!

>>720080535

while I'm at it: the NuAmy problem is merely a symptom of a much larger issue, which is that pretty much the entirety of the cast has lost whatever agency they had before.

Take Unleashed for instance: while Tails and Amy are introduced early on in the game, you at least get the impression that they were doing SOMETHING on their own before running into Sonic again. If Unleashed came out today, we would probably see Tails and Amy flying Sonic to Eggman's armada in the intro cutscene.

>>720080984
>Ian turned him into a fag
I don't like Ian but i'm pretty sure Evan Stanley did that

>>720080742
Sonic was always just hedgehog Goku, though.

>>720081609
Actually, no. Evan just reinforced it, but Ian was the one who made Silver lose all backbone during his Archie run. What's strange is Ian did write Silver a little closer to his game counterpart before suddenly changing him.

>>720081609
Actually, Evan writes Silver more like how he's supposed to be, serious.
Ian is the one who likes UwU for some reason

>>720080984
>snarky but good hearted guy who knew when to step up and be a fight

That's not Silver, that's Sonic. Silver's thing is that he's naive and inexperienced compared to the other two hedgehogs.

>>720081714
Sonic isn't Goku, he's the snarky quipster teen hero archetype that Spider Man popularized

>>720081998
Only in SoA fanfiction. Sonic was never that to Sonic Team.

>>720080745
>Acknowledging that he's been "le wildly inconsistent!" The past few games wink wink nudge nudge teehee...don't worry guys, Ian Flynn knows how you feel about Pontac's writing ;)
I think Tails blatantly saying "I'm inconsistent!" might be one of the worst lines in the entire series. I'm not even sure why you'd want a character to announce that as a writer.
What's also funny in retrospect was Tails being "inconsistent" only because Pontac and Graff were the one's keeping Tails from being a constant scaredy-bitch, since both Colors and Lost World had Tails jump in front of some trap to protect Sonic from danger, while Unleashed and Forces (both cases where the story was mainly handled by Sonic Team instead) had Tails running away and screaming in fear.

>>720081930
>and inexperienced
Nope. That's only in Archie and IDW. He knows how to use his powers and everything.

>>720079954
Sonic is a unique speed based platformer
Mario can't reach sonic's ingame speed without glitches

>>720081930
Silver was naive with Mephiles but never portrayed that way after 06

>>720081075
My personal theory is that Paramount wanted something that made "their" Sonic look different enough from "game" Sonic at a glance so their movie merch wouldn't get mixed up with already-existing game merch. Thus, blue arms.

>>720080984
Silver just sucks. Only way to redeem him is for him to come back from another bad future and try to get help from others to stop it. Bonus points if bad future is adult sage taking over the world with zavok as her bootlicking mutt.

>>720082237
The Mephiles situation seemed more like desperation given the state of his future.

>>720081301
>a few days later he rings on her doorbell
https://files.catbox.moe/gfstxc.webm

>>720081845
>>720081883
My bad, didn't know that
>>720081998
Sonic is like Goku and Lupin in a blue mickey mouse shaped box

>>720082109
In fairness, that was due to Dark Gaia's influence. Dark Gaia aggravates negative emotions like fear and paranoia, and Tails was affected by that. The only one who wasn't affected was Sonic because he's a mary sue. Chip even points this out later.

>>720081075
>>720082268
Straight up I think it's because most normies don't even remember what his arm color is so they figured not a whole lot of people would give a shit

>>720078810 (OP)
>ITT retards think Ian has absolute control over how Sonic characters are written, and not that SEGA has mandates that he has to abide by

>>720082437
>In fairness, that was due to Dark Gaia's influence.
Sonic Team doing the same shit again in Forces proves that they just viewed the character as scared and borderline helpless without Sonic around.

>>720082549
>Mandates only stop him from adding his fag romances
Stop being dishonest nigger

>>720081609

>I'm not even sure why you'd want a character to announce that as a writer.

because Sega doesn't want "good" writing, they want writing that 12 year olds on twitter will call good

Tails going "remember the time i shitted myself in front of Chaos" made zoomoids slap their thighs in glee because it meant continuity(tm) was back in Sonic, even though it means nothing if Sega doesn't follow up on it (they won't).

>>720078810 (OP)
Sonic writing has to be one of the most radioactive weapons grade autism inducers in the existence. If you think about it more than it deserves, you'll probably go mad. Also, Sonicfags are some of the most emasculated people on the planet to ridiculous degrees, so it's no surprise that Ian threats Amy as a sacred cow feminism symbol that can't be in love with a passion because its "innapropiate".

>>720082632
meant for >>720082109

>>720082268
that doesn't make sense, why would the games not want to take advantage of the movies to sell more merch and why would the movies not want to take advantage of the games to sell more merch

>>720082486
that would be almost as bad as the racist reason, since it means they really didn't give 2 shits about the character. might as well have changed his eye whites to yellow due to no reason because nobody would notice anyway.

>>720082570
Might have just been excessive course correction. Tails hadn't been cute in years, so perhaps they went too far in trying to reverse that.

God please just bring back the mid 2000s Sonic X kino era. Meta ruins absolutely everything.

>>720082109
A character outright saying they're "wildly inconsistent" in what is supposed to be a serious narrative is just flat out bad writing. They should not talk like that unless they're in a parody.

>>720082074
They approved his American characterization, which is what made him popular.

Reminder that Ian Flynn is the best Sonic writer

>>720082790
>Mid
But SA1/2 were late 90s/early 00s and they have the best stories and writings in the franchise
Try to imagine Ian writing a scene half as emotional as pic related. You can't

>>720082790
The 2000s is what ruined Sonic's reputation to the masses.

>>720082902
Sonic has been hard carried by his design, not catchphrases,

>>720082874
It's just Flynn thinking he's being clever by acknowledging inconsistencies in Tails' characterization over the years. He's trying to appeal to millennial who love that sort of self-referential humor.

>>720082921
>Press X to doubt

>>720082980
Under Ian, Sonic would say "You were the dark... the darkness that dozes in the dusk, Shadow the Hedgehog."

>>720082921
what the fuck are all those furry OCs is this some kind of butch hartmann comic

>>720082773
>that doesn't make sense, why would the games not want to take advantage of the movies to sell more merch and why would the movies not want to take advantage of the games to sell more merch
Has more to do with who's getting a cut on the given type of merch. Both Sega and Paramount benefit from Sonic being popular, but Paramount benefits more if people buy movie-related merch over just normal Sonic stuff, hence the slight difference.
And the slight difference has to be intentional, because they hired Tyson Hesse to clean the design up for them, who clearly knows what Sonic looks like. He even made a post on Sonic Retro once explaining that they were initially planning to give movie Sonic the monoeye, but they couldn't figure out how to make him blink in a way that didn't look incredibly awkward next to real people (i.e., the typical shutter effect just wasn't working), so they went with large separated eyes instead.

>>720083180
Sonic doesn't have enough characters to make up the NPCs the comics needed to fill the world with.
Even though a world of furries are not a thing for most of the Sonic games.

>>720082980
Too far back. They already perfected Modern Sonic in the Sonic X era (06, Unleashed, Shadow)

Sonic is good when it takes its world and characters seriously. I miss when he would defeat gods while saying some shit like ''thats a pretty snazzy performance!''
>>720082983
Yeah so we thought. We didnt know how good we had it. Jasons Sonic alone BTFO's all Modern Sonic stuff. And i love Generations

>>720082789
No, I'm pretty sure it was just then-Sonic Team designating Tails as the "sheepish sidekick" for a period because they're not very good at character writing.

>>720083313
Why are you calling it the Sonic X era when Sonic X wasn't good?

Why did they make Sonic into an incel?

>>720083313
https://youtu.be/OtTEvHzw60w?si=jrHSUV7q87P97uH7

You fuckers need to understand how the stuff you think is "cool" looks stupid to outsiders

>>720082874
>They should not talk like that unless they're in a parody.
It's clearly meant to be a blatant wink for Sonic fans, but I'm not sure why Flynn thought you could do that during what's apparently a heart-to-heart moment, and not make said moment come off as incredibly stupid. Very bizarre.

>>720078810 (OP)
Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles are the OG trio, and trying to shove anyone post S3&K into the formula was stupid.
Amy should have stayed a side character, not be part of the main cast to fill in the vagina quota.

>>720083272
i still don't buy the merch reason. have they actually said why the arms were changed? maybe there's an official reason that i dont know about. i mean someone must have asked.

>>720083313
I miss Jason's voice, he came into a great stride around Black Knight

>>720083506
>Caring what outsiders think
Isn't that the reason why the game industry is so fucked right now?

>>720083180
Pretty sure they're older characters made back when the series went through bit of a "drought" in the 90s, where the comic writers had to keep coming up with new stuff while there was a lull in Sonic games.

>>720083506
>>720083645
>Caring what outsiders think
Sega literally did that and it ruined Sonic for an entire decade

>>720083425
Because thats what it was. Sonic and his friends in a realistic world alongside humans, with jrpg elements and story building.
>>720083506
So what if Arin Hanson doesnt like it? You tell me how Sonic should be then.

>>720083561
Eh. I'm personally of the opinion that there's no real reason to shove Tails and Knuckles into every single game anyway. The only consistent element of the main games was Sonic. Everyone else is optional.

>>720083130
What the fuck am I reading

>>720083645
>>720083704
Sonic is not a niche franchise. It has to be appealing to the masses to succeed.

Its audience is kids, not 30 somethings.

>>720083873
Gatekeep this series again

>>720083753
Cartoony characters have no place in a realistic world. It makes Sonic and co. look like aliens. They aren't, they're Earthlings just like the humans.

>>720083763
I think Tails is fine being present most of the time, since he and Sonic are basically quasi-brothers, so they'd hang out a lot anyway.
But he doesn't need to be around literally all the time. Giving Knuckles a small break would also be alright.

Honestly it would be interesting to throw together a small cast that doesn't typically interact for a game. Like having the main supporting characters be Rouge and the Chaotix alongside Sonic instead.

>>720083873
Sonic is an AA failed mascot that can't break over 5 million units sold for newer games, it needs to focus on a core market to appeal to

>>720080553
This is it, even if he doesn't admit to it. He's still stuck on Sally being the main girl. If SEGA were to say "Yes" to Sally returning, he'll make a spectacle of it and develop one of the biggest egos you've ever seen in this franchise.

>>720080571
And what does that say about you participating in a thread centered around games designed for literal 6 year olds? I'm sick of people like you pushing this as a legitimate argument.

>>720078810 (OP)
he stopped being written by japanese people

>>720083936
A series like this cannot survive by pandering to people who grew up with it.

If you want generic anime plots, you can find that done much better in hundreds of other series.

>>720084038
The Sonic everyone knows was never written by Japanese people. There's a reason Sonic isn't popular in his home country.

>>720083992
Most of the previous games made it clear that Sonic doesn't really spend most of his time around Tails. They're not exactly joined at the hip. Prior to Sonic Colors, Tails only met up with Sonic either through sheer coincidence, or because Tails intentionally had to seek him out.

>>720080816
so why did they tell him to cut the shit and force him to add a big "DISCLAIMER: These are just my personal opinions and not facts!" to his podcast?
perhaps because he's a lying little faggot?

>>720084038
But Sonic 06 is considered the worst written Sonic game of all time?

>>720078810 (OP)
>Sonic
>writing

>>720082215
Yeah that's what I said. The only thing it has going for it are story and characters because "look at how fast I can go mommy!" doesn't matter to anyone.

>>720083180
Do you think Sonic would just be fighting Eggman for 250 issues?
Then again I guess that's basically the IDW comic.

>>720084185
no?
is that the consensus on your discord, troon?

>>720084174
They don't have to be joined at the hip, but Tails is the one who takes care of Sonic's plane, so it makes sense he'd spend more time around Tails than anyone else.
Characters constantly doing the "long time no see!" bit is just Sonic Team not giving much thought to character dynamics in what is essentially an episodic series.

>>720083643
wow ai is useless

>>720084179
They let him say shit like that for over a decade without doing anything.

>>720084134
>The Sonic everyone knows was never written by Japanese people
you're right, sa1/2 and black knight aren't considered the pinnacle of his characterization or anything, people only know sonic from colors and lost world, my bad

>>720083854
So in the comics, there was a fox named Fiona that Eggman made a robot of to get Tails
Tails fell in love with the robot but it wasn't waterproof and "died"
Years later the real Fiona pops up (red fox in pic related), Tails still simps for her but she likes Sonic
Sonic knows Tails likes her but still fucks Fiona and they become a couple
Tails still simps for Fiona
Then evil Sonic (the green guy in the pic) switches places with Sonic and fucks Fiona and Fiona likes evil Sonic more so she dumps real Sonic and slaps Tails to be mean for the sake of it
Sonic's like "whatever" and Tails is heartbroken
Then a while later, Tails parents are getting arrested by Sonic and that whole fight happens
Yes it is as stupid as it sounds.

>>720083998
It has. That core market is children, like it's always been.

>>720084370
I feel like Sonic doesn't actually use his plane that much anymore. He didn't use the Tornado to get to Station Square, nor did he have it with him when he confronted Eggman at the beginning of Sonic Unleashed.

>>720084052
Actually it kinda can
Most of the better selling games are when it catered only to Sonic fans
Frontiers is the exception

>>720084405
japs are notoriously unaware of what westoids do
you think they knew sonic was getting cucked in the archie comic and knuckles was fucking his own cousin?

>>720084398
regardless, sonic's arms were changed for both games and the movies. meaning they went back on his arms in the games, for whatever reason

>>720084445
You dont remember that SNL skit about Lost World?

Where Sonic fucked up is there being a dozen different versions of him with completely different personalities. Whatever version you were introduced to first is the "real" Sonic to you.

>>720084445
The SA1/2 localizations don't represent Japanese writing. I imagine the same goes for Black Knight.
And also, the pinnacle of his character was in the OVA, anyway.

>>720084538
Yeah, because they approved that stuff

>>720084523
S1 sold that much because it was bundled to the Genesis. S2 sold remarkable well because it came out at the height of the Genesis, as the SNES was a few years away from being released.
You see the collapse of the sales moving forward from there, even when Sonic was released on platforms that had far bigger userbases than the OG Genesis.

>>720084621
>its funny how Mario can do everything under the sun while still being the character we expect him to be
Well when you're basically a just mascot who's only plot is saving the princess and yelling ''WAHOO'' its not exactly hard.

>>720084686
I don't know, it sounds like you're messing with me anon...

>>720084487
>He didn't use the Tornado to get to Station Square
We don't know how Sonic got to the "mainland" (compared to the islands in the classic games), which is apparently where Station Square is situated. At the same time, Tails has a workshop already built up nearby in the Mystic Ruins. They could have traveled to the general area together at some point, then split off for a period.
Also doesn't Unleashed literally start in outer space? I don't think it's shown how Sonic reached Eggman's armada in the first place. I guess it could have been anything.

Despite all that, there really should be more instances of Sonic demonstrating his pilot skills. Having Sonic use the Tornado to travel between islands in Frontiers would have been a good opportunity for that, honestly.

>>720084740
Mario was able to jump into genres that wasn't mascot platformers, and did really well doing it. Mario could do, what Sonic can't.

>>720084707
The collapse happened because of the awful way Sega handled the Saturn and Dreamcast, and clearly see this because of how much Heroes and Shadow (two games that cater extremely heavily to fans) perform much better than them
06 sold badly because it's 06 no contest there but then look at the sales of Unleashed and Colors. Both consistently hitting the 2 mill mark. And then another dip due to exclusivity in an unpopular system
Acting like "Oh the games sold bad because of um catering to le Sonic fans" is frankly a stupid take

>>720084740
Sonic is not that far above that, he has a little more sass but that’s about it. Bugs bunny is more interesting and he barely changes.

>arguing with people who aren't even Sonic fans but act like they are
I'll never understand why people up here do this...

>>720084910
Sonic didn't know about Tails' Mystic Ruins lab prior to then.

>>720084621
That's not fucked up, there's multiple multi-media franchises that do the same exact thing.
The only thing that's fucked up is Sonic being a constant rollercoaster in quality, meaning there's never a guarantee that whenever another new iteration comes along, it'll be able to stand on its own as a quality product despite its differences.

>>720085020
What is a Sonic fan?

>>720084923
Yeah he's just the Mickey Mouse of gaming. He has no character. Of course he fits into everything

>>720085096
I'm not saying he did, I'm saying they both likely traveled to the mainland together, then split off. In the meantime, Tails built his workshop and Sonic spent time running around on his own, "training" or whatever it's said he did between games.

>>720085335
Sonic just has wanderlust. He doesn't even have a home, he's just constantly on the move and never sits still in one place for too long.

>>720085223
You're a Sonic fan if you're two of the following three
>Played more than 3 classic games and 3 3D games to completion
>Have wanted to or want to fuck one of the characters
>Are autistic

>>720084630
>The SA1/2 localizations don't represent Japanese writing
SA1's localization is poorly written and the tone is messed up, though sonic stays pretty consistent
SA2's localization is pretty accurate with the only problem being mistranslations like the famous "bernoulli" mistake from tails
from secret rings to black knight the translations became extremely accurate, to the point many people (retards) called the writing awkward, this is where a lot of sonic-isms people made fun of at the time come from
then everything went to shit afterwards as we all know
there's a reason black knight is the only main sonic game without a retranslation mod

>>720083506
If there is a game, movie, manga, whatever, some people will find it stupid. You can't please everyone. You shouldn't pander to these people because they are not the audience. They will not care about it either way. It should continue being unapologetically itself and it will find fans.
No watering down your product will not magically draw in the elusive "modern audience" it will just lessen the appeal for the people that do like it

>>720084523
>06 the most infamous game ever
>literally no one played it
I don't think it was that bad. Have I played it? No.

>>720085649
It was that bad

>>720085406
I'm aware, but I'm pretty sure there was a specific word used by the devs (it might have been training, I don't remember) when describing what Sonic was doing on his own before the events of SA1. I don't think it's in the game itself.
Basically there was a specific reason why he wasn't hanging out with anyone else for a period outside just wandering.

>>720085417
I’m three for three, what do I win?

>>720084523
It's kind of weird how people were demanding the Mania devs take over the franchise, when it looks like 2D Sonic doesn't sell has much as 3D Sonic in the current year.

>>720085430
>there's a reason black knight is the only main sonic game without a retranslation mod
Because nobody cares about the game outside watching its cutscenes on youtube?

>>720085728
I don't recall this. I was always under the impression that the reason Sonic wasn't always hanging out with the others is because he's always moving onto the next location. It's not like he has a house near where Tails or Knuckles live. He's just always moving.

Even if he visits Tails once in a while, I doubt he sticks around for more than a day.

>>720085736
An all expense paid trip to a life of mediocrity!
No refunds.

>>720085796
Funniest part is how people swore Superstars would flop by not being pixel art and it ended up selling twice as much as Mania

>>720085796
Sonic advance 3 didn’t cross 1 million, not sure about the ds games.

>>720085796
People were fine with the concept of the Mania devs making a 3D game.
It had more to do with their beliefs on the series' gameplay fundamentals over Sonic Team's "we want players to dash like a maniac".

>>720080745
Why does Sonic's voice sound like he's been huffing nitrous?

>>720085804
haha anon what a great gotcha!
but no actually you're just a retarded faggot

>>720085893
>it ended up selling twice as much as Mania
Do we have Mania's current numbers? Because I remember reading somewhere that it was actually around 6 million at this point, which doubles Superstars's current sales.

>>720086024
That's not a gotcha. That's just the truth.
Nobody makes mods for games that aren't played.

>>720079754
>it all comes from SoA.
Weird... the Happy Tree Friends writter didn't have this problem...
Just NOW that Ian took over that Amy got changed. What a coinkidinky huh?

If Sonic had not survived the 3D era like most of the other mascot platformers that came from the Genesis/SNES era, Sega would be doing a Bugsy or Bandicoot thing to bring him back right now for nostalgia bucks.

>>720086145
then why does lost world have a retranslation mod even though it sold way less than black knight, retardo?

>>720085869
>He's just always moving.
That's the typical explanation. But they had something different for SA1 to tie into the gap between S3K and Adventure itself.
Otherwise Sonic and Tails were still hanging out together between 2 and 3K, at least according to the Jap manual.

>>720079754
This is a lie. She only acts this way when he writes her.

>>720078810 (OP)
>What the fuck happened with Sonic's writing
they started adding dialogue

>>720086187
I guess because it got a pc release, which gave it easier access to potential modders.
Either way, we call that an outlier.

>>720086248
Doesn't S3K take place almost immediately after S2? The Death Egg crashing onto Angel Island was pretty immediate after Sonic blew up its gravity reactors or whatever.

>>720086248
That's because Sonic 3 takes place immediately after Sonic 2. Sonic 2 ends with the Death Egg being destroyed. Sonic 3 starts with it landing on Angel Island, with Sonic and Tails chasing after it. There's zero downtime between the two games.

>>720084959
Sonic had clearly defined personality traits, likes, dislikes, friendships, and rivalries. He has just enough to not make him a complete blank slate like Mario, who we know next to nothing about. You can put Mario in anything precisely because nothing about him is defined.

>>720085958
>It had more to do with their beliefs on the series' gameplay fundamentals over Sonic Team's "we want players to dash like a maniac".
This, sales don't mean shit, Mania had the right idea and should have been a starting point for a reset of the franchise. Mania 2 would have had all new zones, Mania 3 could dabble more in 3D and then the main holy grail would be a 3D game designed with Sonic's physics in mind. Building up goodwill would be more important and then the sales would come once they got it right.

>>720086371
>Doesn't S3K take place almost immediately after S2?
Yes.

>>720086187
Lost World was written in English first, the Japanese version is translated from it

>>720083998
>Sonic is an AA failed mascot that can't break over 5 million units sold for newer games
But enough about Kirby
And Star Fox
And Samus
And Captain Falcon
And Ness
And Luigi
And Spyro
And Crash
And Master Chief
And Ryu
And... I can go on and on...
Do you REALLY want to continue with this "You need to sell more than 5 million to be a successful character" line of thinking?

>>720086248
Sonic is one of those teenagers who tries to find themselves while traveling through Europe. Sonic’s timeline will never make sense.

>>720086370
>I guess because it got a pc release
so what you're saying is there's factors OTHER than popularity at play?
factors like say... the current translation being extremely accurate, making a retranslation mod pointless?
but you said pretty explicitly that popularity is the only thing that matters
nevermind the fucking fact that black knight already has plenty of fucking mods already which completely destroys your argument

>>720085869
I think Tails is like the one guy that can keep up with that lifestyle, he has multiple labs around the world and it doesn't take much effort for him to move around and build more.

>>720086624
Where's the spring?

>>720082379
Don't like the abuse but where's the full thing? His account is empty besides a few pictures

>>720078810 (OP)
>>Ian writes Shadow
>>Makes him too much of an asshole that doesn't learn from his mistakes and is too grumpy but again, nothing TOO bad as outside the comics he's still ok

I sorta miss the Shadow from Heroes.
Was stoic but still showed some emotion, didn't feel like he was Grumpy 24/7, seemed like he was having fun before the fight with team sonic and and in that last scene for Team Dark's story.

Just a point of information, as of Sonic Origins, it's pretty much implied the entire Classic Trilogy + CD (including the day/night cycles of zones) probably takes place during a week or 2.

>>720086624
nobody but complete autists gives a shit about muh physics
>inb4 "autists? but that's all sonic fans lmao!"
no it's literal children

>>720086383
>>720086371
According to the Jap manual, there's at the very least a few days that take place between 2's ending and 3's opening.
Sonic and Tails set out to investigate the occurrence of some mysterious tidal waves (that were caused by the Death Egg crashing into Angel Island), after Sonic ties them to an ancient ring he had just found on the beach after napping, the ring giving legend of a floating island. At the same time, Tails has just finished making a "jewel radar", and decides to use it to help their investigation. This is what leads them to Angel Island, and the game's opening cutscene.

>>720086523
So can you make Mario a bad guy?

>>720086920
thats kinda stupid desu

>>720086665
everybody knows that already dude, that's how all modern sonic games are
people are still modding in translations of the japanese version of the script despite that lel

>>720086624
Nah, all they needed was a disjointed open world, bland assets, memberberries and a computer loli.

>>720086730
On the contrary, I think the fact that it's precisely because Tails' interests force him to stop moving for prolonged periods of time that, out the entire case, he's the one who can keep up the least. This is why Sonic's alone most of the time. Sure, someone might be able to stick with him for a while, but eventually they might have to go back home, or maybe they'll want to settle down at a given location for a little bit. But Sonic doesn't have a permanent address, nor does he have anything tying him down. If he wants to go somewhere, he can leave the instant he makes the decision, and he does.

It fits in with his general behavior. If you notice, there's a fair number of times when Sonic doesn't even bother saying bye before moving on at the end of some games. In Sonic Advance 2, he just straight up leaves without saying a word. He goes where he wants, leaves where he wants, and always does it right away.

>>720087007
They already did that.

>>720078810 (OP)
>comic book writer
>writing anything other than a comic book
Found the problem.

>>720086725
>but you said pretty explicitly that popularity is the only thing that matters
No, I said Black Knight doesn't have a translation mod likely because nobody wants to play Black Knight, they just want to watch its cutscenes on youtube. With that in mind, there's probably a translation video on youtube, because then you get the same thing without actually having to deal with a game that plays like shit.

>>720087153
>writing comic books
he can't even do that

>>720087153
Comic books have way better writing than video games.

>>720086948
The physics are what made the Classic games work.

>>720087293
>>>/co/

>>720087293
Maybe back when comic book wirters were more influenced by actual books and not modern media like MCU shit and videogames.

>>720087293
Weird that their writers can't write video games then.

>>720087180
>nobody has made a mod because nobody wants to play it so nobody wants to mod it
>ignore the fact it does have plenty of mods so people are indeed playing it and modding it already
>ignore the fact that this other game that is way less popular and plays much worse does have mods
>if you ignore reality and only use my specific criteria and dismiss all evidence that proves me profoundly wrong as an "outlier", I'm right!

>>720087432
>Maybe back when
This was never the case
Comic books stopped being well written in the late 80s

>>720082379
sauce? like the other anon said, his account is mostly just 8 pics

>>720086948
>no it's literal children
The same children who played and beat the classic games on their own?

>>720086082
Last we heard was a little over 1 million sales

>>720087559
>This was never the case
>Comic books stopped being well written in the late 80s
So wouldn't that mean there WAS a case when they were well-written? Probably back when influential media didn't solely consist of the shit we have now?

>>720086156
Kek, it's the same thing with Shadow. As soon as he takes over and make him worse, only then do we hear of this out of nowhere "mandate for Shadow"
Who does he think he's foolin

>>720087689
That seems outdated to me. There's no way Mania is only sitting at 1 million while TSR broke 3 million, especially when there was a period where they literally bundled TSR with Mania after the former's release.

>>720086624
>Creating a fanfic scenario in your head to get mad over

>>720087483
>nobody has made a mod because nobody wants to play it so nobody wants to mod it
Well yeah, the ones who'd actually care about making a translation mod don't want to play Black Knight. They'd probably rather make a video instead, since the cutscenes seem to be the only thing people want to bring that game up for.

why did sega of japan do nothing about this game's release?

>sonic fans
>this gameplay is dog ass. borderline unplayable. just unfun all-around. i can't see the reason to ever want to play this
>BUT WHATABOUT THE STORY???

>>720087153
>>720087243
>By a twist of fate you find yourself agreeing with Ken Penders of all people

>>720088049
not even this anymore, it's all about the LORE and REFERENCES

>>720087753
I can actually believe Shadow having all these tight rules around how he should be written (at least during a certain period) because
1) He's Iizuka's pet character
2) Some of the Boom writers talked about the same thing, how they'd get all these ridiculous notes and comments regarding Shadow's depiction, which is the main reason why they didn't want to use him much

>>720087140
I imagine is something like Tails can keep track where in the world Sonic currently is, and would willingly fly on the Tornado to the surrounding area Sonic is currently globetrotting, set up base and see if he can catch him and invite him to crash on the couch which Sonic would enjoy for a while, Tails would be fine with him moving on to another part of the globe, would probably spend some time just building shit, and when he feels like would go to look for where Sonic is to repeat the process. Tails can keep up because he like Sonic, doesn't have a set home, but rather multiple ones that he can go whenever he feels like, has no obligations other than his interests which are building things and hanging out with Sonic. It's probably a lonely lifestyle that may vary depending in what Tails wants to focus on at the time. I imagine there would be long periods of time were Tails is just fully focused on his inventions and has not seen Sonic in a while and others were he spent most of his time hanging out with him.

>>720087965
Why would they? They were trying to milk the character after it got super popular during the Genesis era.

>>720088078
I’ll admit, Ken penders at least knew how to expand the universe.

>>720087810
https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/-i-sonic-mania-i-surpasses-1m-sold-worldwide
This is the last I can find of any article mentioning any sales figures for Mania and it was 2018
Tbf Sonic games don't really have long legs. As great as Mania was, quality doesn't always mean sales. Superstars is proof of that

>>720087703
>So wouldn't that mean there WAS a case when they were well-written?
sure, but to say "modern media" or the MCU is what caused the decline is laughable, that's what people who think comics only became shit recently because of le woke actually think
media consumption had nothing to do with why american comics started being shit

>>720088078
a broken clock...

>>720088219
Are mcu movies in phases 1-3 actually badly written? I personally feel mixed on them.

>>720088217
>Tbf Sonic games don't really have long legs.
Isn't it the literal opposite? Sonic games always consistently make money in the long run, hence why the series has continued to stick around in the first place.
Even 06 eventually earned a spot on Xbox's platinum hits line.
>As great as Mania was, quality doesn't always mean sales. Superstars is proof of that
Superstars is flawed, but it's not bad enough to deserve flopping, which it didn't. If anything, Superstars is a good example of the above point where even though its initial sales didn't meet Sega's expectations, it still ended up gradually selling over 2 million copies since its release.

So why is SoJ letting an American comic book writer handle the story/characters for their main mascot? Did they come to a realization that Sonic just wasn't popular in Japan, and think a Western mindset would help sell it more in the regions Sonic is popular?

>>720088470
To a degree yes because they actively work against serious moments, it got worse with age of ultron but generally the phase 1 movies are okay and the winter solider is probably the best the mcu has to offer

>>720087823
I literally posted >>720087625 to prove my point. The physics took a backseat to everything else and it shows. Mania was the wakeup for SEGA, and they pretended it didn't happen. Anyone who was a Sonic fan should have boycotted them when they didn't go all in on Mania. Generations being praised so much baffled me too when they fucked up the one fundamental mechanic that made classic Sonic a household name.

>>720088490
Platinum hits are given to Xbox titles that surpass 400k and 06 made 800k from hype alone before it got out how bad it was

>>720088537
They did it because Archie fans constantly praised him for "fixing" Archie because the comic was just THAT bad and fooled other fans and eventually Sega themselves into thinking Ian was a good writer even though all the ideas in Archie he was writing were created by other people. Despite hiring him, Sonic Team doesn't use his scripts for the japanese version of the games.

>>720088537
That's literally it
Hell the IDW comic went on hiatus for years in Japan because they do not give a shit about it

>>720088743
He had me, until those last posts.
Penders can not, and will not move past Knuckles, who he hijacked for some failed Native American story he originally wanted to make.

>>720088219
>that's what people who think comics only became shit recently because of le woke actually think
I'm not talking about woke shit you moron, I'm talking about "you are what you eat".
If all you do as a writer is take in dumb shit like videogames, MCU garbage, and twitter, then your output is going to be similarly shit. If you're an older writer whose main intake on writing comes from reading actual recognized books (like I'm sure many during the 80s and before were doing), then your output is going to reflect that.

Not saying all books feature quality writing, but those who spent their free time reading and getting a better hold on proper storytelling craft were doing more for their work than otherwise.

>>720088683
Anon it's been stated for years Mania 2 didn't happen because of some big bad Boogeyman
Whitehead himself said they threw around concepts for Mania 2, didn't find anything that stuck, and decided they'd rather go create their own game, Penny

>>720088683
But people know the games those levels game from! At-st, At-st, At-st!

>>720081930
>Silver's thing is that he's naive and inexperienced compared to the other two hedgehogs.
>inexperienced
Stop this fucking meme. He literally has more experience than both Sonic and Shadow. He grew up in actual hell on earth

>>720088926
And we all know how penny went.

>>720084707
>S2 sold remarkable well because it came out at the height of the Genesis, as the SNES was a few years away from being released.
In 1992, the SNES out in all three major markets (Japan, US, EU). Blatant ignorance of such a well known can mean your opinion is worthless, failed normalfag.

>>720088849
What's funny is that happened just when they translated the volume where Shadow had his infamous retard moment and got turned into a Zombot.

New miku song
https://youtu.be/L12K7BGVXws

>>720089393
Sonic bros she's cheating on us...

>>720089246
Japs could smell the garbage coming from a mile away

you guys don't actually like Sonic writing you are too retarded to get any of the themes you just focus on the hype moments and aura and one liners and think it's shonen

>>720089641
Your next cope?

>>720083954
>Cartoony characters have no place in a realistic world
>this is realistic

>>720088893
And yet Ken isn't really struggling financially, nor did he have to charge money for fans to ask questions. Ian's only lifeline is Sonic, that was the point. You can laugh at Penders all you want, but he isn't depending on Sonic to keep his lights on. Ian can't go anywhere else if SEGA drops him. Everything else he did flopped on its ass.

>>720083054
flynn has a bad habit of leaning too hard on the fourth wall
idw in general has this problem, they keep trying to mess with shit you can't really mess with sonic as property like WHY DOESN'T SONIC CAVE EGGMANS HEAD IN INSTANTLY when you the reader know how any situation like that will go so nothing really interesting can happen with it so it's just annoying to even really touch on, or cases like Lanolin where ABT wanted to have her be all WHY IS IT SO EASY FOR SONIC REEE
or starline WHY DON'T YOU CAVE SONIC'S HEAD IN EGGMAN
they keep trying to poke holes in the setting for no real benefit
I don't get why they are so allergic to having adevntures

>>720081348
going from multiple playable characters to just sonic with unleashed did a huge number on those character's, uh, character

>>720088926
And how'd that turn out?
Penny's Big Letdown proved they needed more than just "From the developers of Sonic Mania" to sell their game, a lot more in fact. Sonic's design alone is carrying him. Penny's design doomed her from the start.

>>720089937
It's amazing how bad of a writer Ian is in hindsight
And we were all begging for him to write the games back in 2012 too lol

>>720089937
What's weird is the classic comics don't really suffer from this, they seem to focus more on just fun adventures, so it's not like the writers are incapable.
The modern/main stuff is what seems to forget that Sonic should be pulpy fun first, and whatever else second. I can only guess the main writers like Flynn and Stanley REALLY want to write and be recognized for stuff that isn't Sonic-related, but can't get work on stuff that isn't Sonic-related, so all their backed-up, simmering writer ideas end up being flushed into their Sonic work as a result.

>>720089861
That's about as realistic as Sonic Team could get in 1998. The similarly grounded hub areas show the team's intent in that regard, at least.

In a lot of ways, 06 comes across as Sonic Team capturing what they really wanted to do with SA1, presentation-wise, except they finally had the tech to realize it.

>crossworlds has a fuckton of unleashed assets
>even a werehog model for the first time in ages
>unleashed hd with an Ian re-write happening

>>720090638
Crossworlds has a bunch of Unleashed representation likely because they have no intention of remastering Unleashed. This is just Sega's way of "recognizing" Unleashed fans. Also an easy excuse to reuse assets.

>>720090114
Yeah I do still plan on playing penny some time but god damn what an awful design

>>720089937
People like Ian are forgetting that this is a static kids series where everything mostly has a formula. What they're asking for is a series bordering on an older audience and is nearing a conclusion where the characters "develop" or resolve or subvert certain tropes or obstacles.

The Sonic franchise shifting its identity so much has prevented it from being as beloved as other well-known franchises. Fans might say that each Sonic game offering different gameplay styles and stories is a strength of the franchise. As the saying goes, "there's a Sonic game for everyone"...but this simply isn't true. In fact, it's part of what pushes people further away from the franchise and one of the main reason the fanbase is broken beyond repair. When Sonic made the leap to 3D, Sega should've stuck with the Adventure style gameplay while making slight improvements, rather than throwing it away completely after failure of Sonic 06. Though to be fair, I don't entirely blame Sega for thinking they needed to start over from scratch with a new gameplay style because people were already starting to get fed up with the franchise after Sonic Heroes and Shadow's self-titled game, then Sonic 06 was the last straw and people went into "everything sucks" mode (though I don't blame fans for that either, of course).

>>720090971
So after Sonic 06, the "boost mechanic" gameplay from Sonic Rush became the new gameplay style for the mainline titles. Now, I'm fine with the boost-style gameplay since Rush was my first Sonic game, but I recognize that the boost mechanic taking over as the new gameplay style caused a rift in the fanbase. The boost gameplay in Sonic Rush and Rush Adventure was more akin to the Classics, being 2D and all. Even when the boost mechanic made its way to the 3D games, they often included 2D sections in levels, which annoyed fans of 3D gameplay. The blend of 2D and 3D gameplay in levels was presumably an attempt to please both classic Sonic fans and modern Sonic fans, yet this only caused another rift in the fanbase. Then came Sonic Lost World, which had gameplay more like Mario in an attempt to please Mario fans, and was even descibed as "a Sonic game for Mario fans" by Sega. Naturally, Lost World ended up flopping, because why would Mario fans play a Sonic game that tries to be a Mario game...when they could just play an actual Mario game? Not to mention the fact that the Wii U itself was a flop.

>>720091061
This is why I said they should've stuck with the Adventure-style gameplay and continuing improving it. By trying to please everybody, Sega pleases nobody in the end. They seem to be sticking to the boost mechanic in the most recent games and I hope it stays that way, even if that might alienate some fans. I just want Sega to stay consistent with Sonic and not switch up out of the blue anymore. But then again, they wouldn't have to deal with the risk of alienating certain fans and trying to please multiple crowds of people at once if they didn't constantly switch up gameplay styles in the first place. With Mario games, you always know what you're gonna get. The same can't be said for Sonic, which is what turns people away. On top of not knowing what gameplay you may get, you'll also be worrying about if the game will be a broken mess or not.

>>720090404
Because people actually thought he was some skilled writer and devoted fan because he wrote for a comic that was completely detached from the mainline Sonic he never had to be accurate and was already bogged down by past writers who made such bad writing decisions that someone SLIGHTLY less shit was seen as Shakespeare.

>>720090871
I tried to play it but I didn't like the controls and the level design wasn't that interesting
Shame

>>720091141
And SEGA not using older characters only helped disguise his shit writing with callbacks. That period was fucking insufferable with how many people were clamoring Ian to be the savior of the franchise and focusing on character development over functional gameplay. Making fun of pre-Colors Sonic was a big misstep too.

>>720090638
>Sonic "Amy? What are you doing in Spagonia?"
>Amy "Sharing my love with the world! Do you need some help bestie? I can read your fortune with my tarot cards"

>>720090413
That's a good point, I recall liking those quite a bit.
>I can only guess the main writers like Flynn and Stanley REALLY want to write and be recognized for stuff that isn't Sonic-related, but can't get work on stuff that isn't Sonic-related, so all their backed-up, simmering writer ideas end up being flushed into their Sonic work as a result.
Seems likely.
But I also think it's very common for fans turned creators to come in with focused, formulated ideas for a property born from their own nostalgic digestion of it, so that they very rarely come in trying to replicate what they enjoy but rather mold it into what they envisioned in their heads.
They've thought so much about the Sonic games they've codified their thoughts on it their fan minds and want to hammer it in. I wish they'd care to obsess over the zones and world as much as they do over the characterizations, IDW also has an issue where locations mean dick. I think this is also an extension of the Adventure side of Action/Adventure aspect of Sonic getting lost in the sauce. Like Sonic games are platformers, not fighting games, we should really see more of Sonic characters exploring their world not just fuckers fighting each other. But I don't think too many would actually want to see that, that's just me.
This kind of fan becomes writer and messes with stuff thing has happened a lot with Big 2 Superhero comics in the west.

>>720090871
I have no issue with her design, I get it...but I understand why the public didn't get it. The irony that the gameplay looks innovative and fun, but the character designs were an acquired taste. The opposite of Sonic today. There's a lot of things that Evening Star needs to learn, and I hope that situation with Penny keys them in on what they need to do.

>>720091385
>*transforms into werehog for the first time*
>Sonic: "This is worse than the time I was stuck in the Arabian Nights, I hope Whipser and Tangle don't see me like this"

>>720091141
Yeah he's a big fish in a small pond that's gotten overestimated
Dave Filoni has a similar thing going
>>720091385
>>720091689
lmao

>>720091689
>Dr Ivo Gerald Robotnik!
>Ack! How could that nasty blue pincushion catch up to me so easily! This was even worse than when he became the Iblis Trigger!

>>720089150
Yet, he trusted someone who looked like THE DEVIL with no MOUTH.

He's just pissed he has to use Amy instead of his beloved Sally.

>>720092148
I like how it became increasingly clear the man has a bias for Sally.

>>720092245
Well duh, he's an Archiefag. Probably grew up with SatAM too.

>>720091850
>>720091689
>>720091385
>"Empire City huh? This place puts Station Square to shame. No time for sight seeing now though, we have to find the gaia temple....Now...how do I escape this city?"

>>720092367
Follow me, Chip! We got places to go

I don't want to live in a world where bestie amy talks about tarot cards in unleashed

>>720083998
>Sonic is an AA failed mascot
Wrong.

>>720092306
Can we please eventually get writers who actually like the fucking games and aren't pining for a cartoon spinoff from the '90s (which was always an incredibly loose adaptation of Sonic in the first place)? It's been 30 years.

>>720092814
Heh, "Bestie".

Ian Flynn is a good writer though, its not his fault your tastes are garbage

>>720092815
>muh sales
>muh revenue
This is irrelevant when the GAMES ARE STILL FUCKING BROKEN. What don't you get about that?

>>720093064
Hello Ian.

>>720093079
You can't call something a failure when it has made billions.
Shadow Generations also just came out and most people, including game critics thought it was pretty good.
But I'm sure you will reply to me telling me it's actually another Sonic '06 tier disaster.

>>720092861
When retarded localizers call Amy, Sally, in CD because of the cartoon/comic, you know how imbedded this was in the American Sonic fandom at the time.
Many Sonic fans being in their 30s and 40s makes it even more annoying to detach this thing.

>>720093268
Shadow Generations is just a sub-game within a game that was cashing in on nostalgia without actually developing on why people grew to love Sonic. It was literally a marketing ploy tying in with an anniversary landmark. After the initial high of Classic Sonic, the game fell flat.
>Game critics
The same critics who are admitted casuals?
>Most people
IE pic related?

>>720079887
By the Japanese.

>>720084447
I'm with Scourge on that, that's hilariously bad writing for a Sonic story. Also Sonic running at the end looks amazing

>>720092861
i still don't know how the SATAM guys looked at Sonic 1 and 2 and made that adaptation

it's pretty gay

>>720093696
WHY DID SONIC EVEN SAY THAT ABOUT THE TIME STONES WHEN THEY'VE USED THE CHAOS EMERALDS TO TIME TRAVEL MULTIPLE TIMES
IAAAAAAAANNNNNNN

>>720094063
Same way they made the Mario cartoon, Zelda, Captain N, Double Dragon...DiC didn't give a fuck.

>>720094147
You don't even use the timestones to time travel in CD. You use the funny sign posts.

>>720088683
Here's the thing: mania didn't sell.

>>720094147
Wait have they? Wasn't that only in 06 which deleted itself?

>>720094063
>>720094179
Or that rumor about the show being an original IP that had Sonic Tails and Eggman shoehorned in.

>>720094063
I don't think SatAM's initial concept was even related to Sonic. This sketch I think from another thread explained that it was originally going to feature some other characters either with Sonic plopped in or Sonic was added and they redid some stuff. Robotnik was Robotnic and looked like a green orc. It wasn't a bad design, but this was DiC during the 90's and they were very loose with adapting things.

>>720085417
Alright I'm a Sonic fan! Can I win a free copy of Tails Adventure?

>>720094229
06 deleted itself but Sonic still remembers it

Okay but why did they replace knuckles calling classic sonic fat with him asking where the rest of his island is, with classic still patting his own belly looking sad in response

>>720083130
When i saw the sonic vs tails issue cover i had to read, i wanted to know what caused the fight, apparently they made sonic into a lapdog for some royals, and made him into a dickhead "the kid worships me"
And then tails goes "you went out with my girlfriend man"
Its hilarious and stupid

>>720084447
The writers wanted to make pointless humiliation rituals for tails (awful writing)
But they couldn't do it normally, so they made him act like full blown retard whatever fiona was around.

>>720094417
Voices can be re-recorded. Redoing animation takes too long.

>>720094495
You would act like a full blown retard with a hot girl like fiona around who showed interest in you too.

https://youtu.be/AuJSvPyRMUg
I can't

>>720094530
You must advance sonic

The Timestone thing wouldn't even stand out most of the time. In most contexts, it would make sense to bring it up. The reason it's weird here is because it's coming from Sonic. Sonic doesn't really bring up stuff that happened in past games super often. Even if he does, it's normally a little more subtle. Out of all characters who might bring up the Timestones explicitly, Sonic would be the last. That's the only reason it's so off.

https://youtu.be/4RwJVxMlQgA
Christ Ken wasn't kidding about Ian only being able to rely on the crutch of other stuff

>>720094695
Doesn't Sonic do just that in the original when referencing Secret Rings and Colors?

It's a minor thing but I don't like how they can't make up their mind on Classic being from another dimension or not
>Generations "We're traveling through time and space"
>Forces "Woah you're that Sonic from another dimension!"
>Shadow Gens "We're traveling through time!"

Without The Time stones is so weird because on one hand yes it does make sense for Sonic to reference older shit in Generations fine
But on the other hand, it can't help but feel so forced and dumb to say something like that
It's a double edged sword

>>720084621
Mario doesn't have any personality, he barely talks and whatever he talks it's an unfunny gag

>>720094949
Yeah, but that's still kind of out of character for him. In the end, this mostly just started when Americans and Canadians started writing for Sonic. Prior to then, I can only think of two instances in which Sonic brought up something that happened in a past game.

>>720095003
According to TailsTube its the past again. For now.

The series should be in Jeff Fowler's hands. The Japanese hate sonic because he embarrasses their yakuza branch in sales.

>>720095185
Japanese Sega anyway. They hate that Sonic is all they have that sells in the US.

>>720081930
>inexperienced
In terms of social ability sure since he's from a future where everyone is fucking dead, in terms of combat ability, hell no. He's insanely experienced. His story in 06 is about understanding Mephiles tricked him and learning to open up to other people since he's been isolated for almost his entire life. In terms of combat he was insanely skilled.

>>720095387
Silver should be uwuver but goes ballistic and snaps when he's angry. Sort of like a Jekyll and Hyde except it's "unassuming playful retard" turning into a brutal and efficient fighter when that switch inside his head flips

Silver is a hilariously awkward character. His powerset doesn't really suit most traditional Sonic games, and his whole "being from the future" schtick doesn't work super well in Sonic either. Like these games have a hard enough time trying to justify the presence of half its core cast, and now you have someone from the future showing up for no reason? It's all a bit much.

>>720094695
>>720095073
Real Flynn Haters know that the timestones were used to time travel in Archie so Flynn is trying to insert Archieisms into the canon. He does this shit all the time.

>>720095685
They wanted Future Trunks in Sonic. Thats it.

>>720090638
It's a good thing we already have a superior Unleashed hd without that and it came out just this year too.

Surge and Kit would be kino to add to the games but I'm not sure how you could do their concepts justice without making Sonic Adventure 3. But it is an interesting concept to have a sonic rival who actually hates being forced to be a sonic rival/clone, as opposed to all the other sonic rivals/clones who just want to prove themselves stronger than sonic.

I think westerners in general just can't really wrap their heads around someone having nothing holding them down. Someone like Sonic who never lays down roots and rarely brings up the past is probably too alien to us. When something important happened in the past, we feel inclined to bring it up. The life of a vagrant is something to look down on, and it's our fundamental responsibility to have a permanent home. We have an obligation to our friends and family, to maintain our relationships with them.

In contrast, Sonic is a character who is completely free of responsibilities and has absolutely nothing holding him down. He doesn't need a home, he doesn't need a family, he just does what he wants, goes where he wants.

>>720096160
Sonic treats tails like a little brother and lets him tag along, even back to Sonic 2.
>h-he's just not paying atte-
No. If sonic was truly like that, Tails wouldn't have had a chance in the fucking world to keep up with him.

>>720096257
He does, but it's also true that Tails has no idea where the fuck Sonic is most of the time. That's why he has to hunt Sonic down. Sonic isn't responsible for Tails' wellbeing. Tails is independent most of the time. He has his own home, his own labs, his own goals. Sonic can disappear for months at a time knowing that Tails will be totally fine.

>>720086898
>>720087609
i just made a joke, the anon i saw posting the url said he never finished the video.
his account is probably empty because he paywall his stuff now?

Frontiers finally gave Amy (and Cindy Robinson) something to do for the first time in like 2 decades.

>>720094547
>You would act like a full blown retard with a hot girl like fiona around who showed interest in you too.
No.
That's You, stop projecting.

>>720097027
New amy has problems but I'm convinced that all the people shitting on her genuinely hate Amy being able to do fucking anything. She's been the butt monkey of the series and frontiers is the first fucking time she's not a massive liability that everyone would be better off without

>>720097050
>a hormonal teenage fox boy would act rational around a literal 10/10 vixeness from his dreams that actually seems to give a shit about him
You aren't fooling anyone.

>>720097050
This >>720097153 is literally a canon event in most young boys' development, to be stupid at one point or another where girls/women are concerned. It's not just him.

>>720096029
Surge is cool but having her in the mainline games would be extremely funny to me because then they'd have to dig into Dr. Starline and all the things he did to her and Kit.

>>720097090
I mean she's still kind of a liability. The entire reason Sonic's data cancer got so bad was because he had to save his friends. Amy helped out in the end, sure, but things wouldn't have been has bad if she simply weren't there to begin with.

>>720097412
I imagine if it's the movieverse, it's stone going insane from the loss and losing his morality trying to become the robotnik he looked up to.

If it's the gameverse, it could be starline but it could also be GUN trying to reverse engineer sonic/shadow, metal sonic going rogue again and trying to make cyborgs out of people, sage attempting to make her 'own' metal sonics but better, etc.

Starline could be kino if done right, there needs to be more animal people villains and I'm mad Infinite's game and storyline was unfinished and halfassed bullshit.

>>720096029
They would have to introduce her in some alternate way, make up why she has electric powers, explain Surge's relationship with everyone and... it gets too convoluted.

Even if they pulled a Blaze and have two canons for the character (otherworld princess and friend of the far-future Silver), its just not worth it imo.

>>720097648
Stone's a good idea actually, never considered that.
>there needs to be more animal people villains
Kino take. I'm all for expanding the villain roster a little more, the Deadly Six are "fine" but more solo threats apart from Eggman would be cool and open up some neat ideas down the road.

Ian is so weird. He gets the opportunity to the write for the Sonic games and he wastes it trying to change Amy's personality and demolish Sonamy. I would say it's like they got a nigga from Fanfiction.net, but they literally did since Ian had an account there before he was hired by Archie.

Like, dude, just write a good story. Stop focusing on waifus and shipping ffs.

>>720098361
I dont believe its entirely all on Ian. I think at least part of it is because Sega doesnt want to have anyone be involved with anyone else, not only because they dont want to devote any dev time to make scenes that play to that in their games, but also because you will always have a section of the fanbase that will shitpost on twitter about not having their ship represented.

Also another big point is it attracts the wrong kind of attention to their games. All it takes is the wrong person seeing the wrong thing at the wrong time or misinterpreting something and now that scene is in mainstream media for all the wrong reasons and tanks the IP's image (even further).

>>720098361
The strange thing is that Amy is still just fine in IDW. She has silly moments, she's energetic, she still loves Sonic, she not long ago did a combo attack with Silver using a gigantic Eggman hammer and he was freaked out because she did most of the work. She has serious moments as well, but she's not dry or bland. Whatever is going on with Amy's characterization in the games isn't reaching the comics, at least not to the same extent.

>>720098737
Ian literally said on his podcast that he found Sonamy "antagonistic" because they can't be endgame and tried to end it in Frontiers by having Amy "share love with the world" or some shit before finding out Sega was not gonna do that. It's all him.

>>720098945
Flynn would basically prefer for either the pairing to be either established in full, or killed outright. He hasn't been subtle about how much he hates the current status quo.

>>720098737
>Also another big point is it attracts the wrong kind of attention to their games. All it takes is the wrong person seeing the wrong thing at the wrong time or misinterpreting something and now that scene is in mainstream media for all the wrong reasons and tanks the IP's image (even further).
...You're talking about Ian, right? Because that's sort of what's happening. I get your point though.

>>720098926
That's because a different person has been writing Amy in the comic: Evan Stanley.

>>720099268
This
And Evan, even if I have gripes with her, does have a better understanding of how the characters should at least act

>>720097090
she accomplishes more in sa1 and 2 though

>>720093079
>>muh sales
>>muh revenue
>This is irrelevant when the GAMES ARE STILL FUCKING BROKEN. What don't you get about that?
It's
Okay
When
Pokemon
Does
It

who up dreamin of their absolutions rn??

>>720078810 (OP)
Why do Ian shitters act like this nigga has full control of the story and characters? I agree the referencing from old games are forced as fuck but all he does is write the english dialogue

>>720100021
*taps the sign*

>>720100162
Because the dialogue is still aggravating.

>>720100162
iirc for the games he now does the main script and the japanese localize his version and make changes where they see fit

>>720100253
Because the Japanese see his script and like it. This makes purists seethe to no extent, which is why Ian is now the boogieman.

These people would not survive the pendersbollers/sonic 06 era.

>>720100375
>Because the Japanese see his script and like it
>Except they change almost all of it
LOL sega listened to the fans one time when they bitched about the movie sonic design and decided it's a good idea 100% of the time, so now we have grandma amy, ian flynn and endless shadow glazing

>>720100375
>Because the Japanese see his script and like it.
Exactly, this is why it's completely different in Japanese

>>720086689
Sales are all that matters.

>>720100253
>>720100375
His script usually gets completely rewritten in Japanese, showing that Sonic Team also doesn't like it.

>>720084037
I accept your concession.

>>720088078
I know when I really hate someone I forgive other people who are just as bad and suck their dicks to fuel my hatred.

I was never a fan of Amy but I do miss when she was just some annoying fangirl chasing Sonic. I hate this boring bossgirl character that fights with tarot cards, that is not Amy and I blame Sonic Boom for ruining her character and making Knuckles a fucking retard

>>720097408
Yes that's an adult grooming a child, and not an average child but a one that's also smart enough to pilot a plane and maintain it and build various gadgets and replicate chaos emeralds, you would think that his vast knowledge would give him some slight awareness to help him understand what's happeni-... never mind, he still falls for it.

This also never happened in the games, it is just the author's barely disguised humiliation fetish, or this happend to him or someone he knows so he uses tails as a self-insert

>>720097153
You have a humiliation fetish

cartoon hedgehogs starring in video games are very serious business.

>>720100021
Just because I'm calling out Sonic for it doesn't mean I'm excusing Pokemon for it. Try again.

Instead of impotently crying nonstop about the demon gaijan baka who is destroying all things good and holy about Sonic, why don't you be actual men and do something about it.

>>720100770
>Still lurking around in a thread centered around a game series for literal 6 year olds just to get in a cowardly gotcha
Okay?

>>720099268
Evan Stanley has issues that she writes but it's not like the character of Amy is completely hers to write alone, that's not how comic production works. There are plenty of issues with prominent Amy appearances that don't have Evan Stanley in the credits at all, so it's definitely not just her unless I'm missing something Ian tweeted or said in some podcast.

>>720098926
>>720099268
>>720101143
Evan's like the only person from IDW who actually liked Amy from the 2000s so she's the diamond in the rough sometimes.

I never imagined I would see grown adult men turning into tantruming teenage girls over a fictional cartoon animal.

>>720088923
>I'm not talking about woke shit you moron
didn't day you were spergo, just that you were following the same retarded logic from terminally online brainrotten directionbraind
Again, you have this headcanon of comic books becoming shit because creators stopped reading dostoevsky, you're stuck on this retarded meme that keeps propping up on boards like these, of the stupid modern writer who's a big fat virgin nerd who consumes junk media and creates junk media, and needs to read high literature and get outside, when that's not what caused the early 90s decline at all, it was other shit like artists becoming superstars and getting too much creative control over the writer, focusing too much on artwork to attract buyers, chasing trends, appealing to the collector market...
Stop blaming everything on le "everyone is stupid now because they're not living life like the old masters! (who were even bigger weirdo recluses)"

>>720100952
>>720101067
>>720101475
shut up rape victim

>>720101550
eat shit child molester

>>720101475
It ain't fun watching characters you loved as a kid get turned into shit by some mediocre fanfiction writer turned offical writer

>>720101143
Bro, you need to stop coping. This stuff only happens with Amy when Ian writes her. It's not a coincidence at this point.

>>720101550
REEEEEEEEEEE BLUUUUUEEEEEE ARRRMMMMMMMMS REEEEEEEEEEEE

that's what you lot sound like lmao.

>>720101658
He can't write girly characters. It's why he loves Blaze and Tangle

https://files.catbox.moe/da8bjg.mp4

Find me a single 2D that has better gameplay than this one.
There isn't.

>>720101621
Yeah, a girl hedgehog not being a one-note stalker absolutely destroyed my childhood so hard I had to throw a dog against the wall and punch my mother in the face because of how angry I am.

>>720101658
I'm not coping, I'm genuinely asking. Is there anything Ian or Evan have said about her being the sole Amy writer or something? I don't follow any social medias so I don't hear those things, I could be wrong. I'm just going by what I've read in the books and what the credits tell me.

>>720101758
tbf that's only like 25% of Sonic fans

There is not an ounce of irony when I say that mid-2000s Amy was the second-funniest character in all of Sonic.

>>720101862
>Amy in Battle is so fucking Sonic-obsessed that in Rouge's story she falls into a delusional spell about him coming to her aid against Rouge and Emerl to "save their child (Emerl)" from that no-good jewel thief
>her delusions are so fucking powerful that they actually manifest in reality to a point where Emerl can derive battle data from this Sonic copy born of pure lovesickness
>Rouge just completely refuses to acknowledge what just happened after the fight

>>720101758
i'll give you the fact that amy's character definitely needs to go somewhere. people actually thought she was annoying back in the day.

>>720102130
They were weak

>>720102094
Every single move of this game is vivid in my head to this day
It's one thing that fighting games lack, pose. Every move in sonic battle, even the most basic punches and kicks were full of personality.

>>720102094
It does make me sad that people are actively trying to make Sonic less funny. Like the series had two non-shit comic relief characters and now we only have one. I do not count Orbot and Cubot, and I want Cubot to go away.

>>720082109
>>720082570
If Tails' role is meant to be a scared damsel then they should have just made him a girl. It's pathetic when a guy does it.

>>720101720
You may be right, that looks awesome. Especially the fighting, are bosses fun?

>>720102462
I hate that the writers starting with Colors tried making Sonic 'funnier' because a cartoon hedgehog has to be silly and 'funny' vs. straightforward with a balance of downtime and high points. Making fun of the older games playing things straight is part of what degraded Sonic as a franchise, not THE cause of it, but part of it.

>>720085223
A MISERABLE PILE OF AUTISM

>>720080984
Silver was always lame. His voice was always shit, his design is fucking retarded with the stupidest fucking hair, and he's a loser.

>>720102893
BUT ENOUGH TALK, HAVE AT YOU
>[autism beams intensify]

>>720078810 (OP)
>Hey sonic this reminds me of the time Dung the Cow died protecting John the Bob in issue 134 of the IDW comics
>yeah Ami I miss Dung
>I do too, it is very sad

>>720078810 (OP)
>umm ackshully amy was better as a crazy one-note yandere stalker

Remember when Shadow was a smug showoff who loved theatrics? Why can't we have more of that?

>>720103203
She was. Annoying personality > no personality.

>>720102643
The running bosses were my favorite desu.

>>720103230
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozWpY6Cn67Y&ab_channel=TheFeatherFriend

>>720103203
She was. Now she's as bland, safe, and generic as every other game woman.

>>720102094
>all of this happened because Tails told Amy that the robot is sonic's "Baby"
He was either an autistic retard who couldnt avoid an obvious landmine he was throwing Sonic onto or a massive genius troll fucking with Sonic.

>>720089781
I hate Ian.

>>720103230
And some fags still say "this is better than old Amy"...

>>720103606
It's a meme at this point
>"HeRpy DerPY! NuAmY iS mUcH BeTter!"

>>720103254
Because he's based on Vegeta, who was never a guy that smiled or had friends or became a character who participated in dumb shit and silly antics or had a family and became a cordial person who outclassed Goku in manners and etiquette, he's above all that shit because reasons.

His gag with coffee beans isn't the way to go about it either, that's only adding to the problem.

>>720103606
>>720103872
"It's called a character arc. Hope this helps!!!"

>>720100235
Kek

>>720098926
Why are their eyes so yellow? Do they all have a liver problem??

>>720101720
Christ this is why I can't take some Sonic fans seriously
Really? That looks good to you? Long stretches of holding right with a "homing attack but longer" disguised as "combat"?
Combat of which absolutely does not belong in a 2D Sonic game?
You don't want a Sonic game, you just want the same thing millions of other Zoomers want. Retard "the game plays itself while I sit there and go "YOOOOO" at how much aura farming is being done!!!"
You disgust me

>>720103203
She was

>>720078810 (OP)
>Ian writes Amy
>Destroys her entire personality
oh no she's more than just one joke
>She CANNOT fight with her hammer anymore she MUST use her tarot cards
she literally uses her hammer as her form of Cyloop/Heavy attack in Sonic Frontiers
>In fact bring back a random throwaway line about her liking that shit and make it her entire thing now, she LOVES divinity and all that shit now
Sonic Team (japanese) was in charge of designing her moveset, Ian writes dialogue, he's not the fucking director
>She does NOT like Sonic, she respects him as a friend and he respects her. There is no chemistry between them anymore.
what the fuck are you talking about? see picrel amongst piles of panels like this in IDW written by Ian
>The only thing Amy loves is to make the world a better place now.
glad they're expanding on the actual good parts of her character shown in SA1/sA2/06 where she's helping others (Birdie/Gamma/Shadow/Silver)
>Amy's design is also abhorrent and MUST be changed into her Boom design. Sega won't let him but he'll get there eventually
this was an offhand opinion from a podcast like 6 years ago, let it go
>Amy cannot have any gag scenes she must be respected and treated like "one of the bros" 24/7 AND-
ian isn't the fucking director of the game, he doesn't choose which scenes are re-animated

>>720102434
Not every fighting game ofc

>>720078810 (OP)
I'm not saying nu-sonic has good writing, but the old games have really embarrassing writing too. You might not notice because you're so familiar with them, but people who play them for the first time now really notice.

Sonic fans learning the hard way the cancer that is comics writers.

>>720106728
>oh no she's more than just one joke
that's all she needed to be and all that we wanted her to be. the series is about Sonic and nobody else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohm5CVdutrw

No matter how old I get.
I still think Sonic is cool as hell.

>>720106825
I still can't believe what they are doing to Spiderman
And somehow nobody is stopping it?

>>720106809
>people who play them for the first time now really notice.
Too bad you've only watched them in video essays.

>>720109718
LMAO why the fuck would I watch a video essay about sonic

>>720108583
Based

>>720086689
Kirby is so popular in Japan that there's cafes themed solely on it