Thread 720086030

is it better or worse than the first game?

>>720086030 (OP)
Far better. It cannot be overstated just how much better Silksong's level/map design is.

>semi-linear subtly guided progression (similar to Super Metroid)
>clear direction of where to go instead of just aimlessly wandering around trying out every single path to see which one is the right one
>maps have way less dead-ends and are much less labyrinthine
>tons of little secrets that actually matter instead of just being pointless garbage
>Hornet is significantly faster and more mobile navigating through the map
>backtracking is significantly reduced with the fast travel system
>benches are more frequent
This combined with the much higher level of difficulty and focus on combat put Silksong far and away better than Hollow Shite.

>>720086030 (OP)
I prefer it, but that's because (so fari) it's more streamlined in level design, and because the movement is more engaging. But I wouldn't blame anyone for feeling the opposite.
>>720086192
Stop trying to make this copypasta happen.

>>720086387
>nooo stop pointing out objective facts about the game
No.

>>720086192

its also prettier

>>720086192
>>clear direction of where to go instead of just aimlessly wandering around
fucking THIS
My biggest issue with Hollow Knight is it just gives you no fucking feedback. I just wandered around aimlessly, checking every single possible pathway until I stumbled upon the place I was supposed to go.
Silksong at least gives you a clear objective, even if it's just the name of a zone that you're supposed to head towards.

much better. Each area feels fully realized and are fucking huge compared to hollow knights couple rooms joined together. Areas like Greenpath and Fog Canyon are hilarious by comparison now.

>>720086030 (OP)
Better in every way but music so far, only memorable track for me was that clocktower core in the citadel.

>>720086192
>>clear direction of where to go instead of just aimlessly wandering around
>>720086518
>My biggest issue with Hollow Knight is it just gives you no fucking feedback
Holy fuck, I know people in here aren't the brightest, but exposing yourself as a retard like this...

>>720086387
>Copypasta
The fuck you smoking?

>>720086843
>no argument
seethe

>>720086030 (OP)
better. just moving around feels a lot more engaging, and combat is a lot more varied than the first hollow knight.

the only downgrade so far is the music, the only track I've liked is lace fight

just feels like the melodies are duller this time

>>720086843
I beat Hollow Knight in <15 hours (2-3x as fast as the average player). The way to progress is legitimately just wander around aimlessly until you stumble on a powerup, then do a big giant fucking loop around the entire map every single gate to see which you can happen and check which is the critical path while the other 95% are pointless garbage.

Silksong is actually structured like Super Metroid and has coherent flow and progression. It's miles better.

>>720086030 (OP)
It's objectively too early to say, most of the people playing it still haven't finished the game, what I can is that it's an improvement is a lot of ways, but the original being so simple in comparison gives it a special appeal. The right side of city of tears where those giants are patrolling and the stag station is will always be very nostalgic for me.

>>720086843
Silksong traversal upgrades (save for double jump) have clear markers on the map and are actually on the path to the Citadel, Hollow Knight had claw and dash on a vague path to Lurien and that was it. Every other traversal upgrade was in weird corners of the map.

Even Silksong's double jump wasn't bad for me to get at all, I was too poor to get the map at the time but intuitive level design brought me to it anyways.

>>720086030 (OP)
Better movement, (slightly) worse in other aspects

>>720086843
I beat Hollow Knight in <15 hours (2-3x as fast as the average player). The way to progress is legitimately just wander around aimlessly until you stumble on a powerup, then do a big giant fucking loop around the entire map checking every single gate to see which you can open and see which is the critical path while the other 95% are pointless garbage.

Silksong is actually structured like Super Metroid and has coherent flow and progression. It's miles better

Giant downgrade

>>720086030 (OP)
Better combat, movement, and music + a LOT more content(too much desu). Worse in every other way though.

Bilewater is the worst area in any metroidvania ever.

>>720086030 (OP)
It's harder starting out that hollow knight at least. It feels like they kind of expected you to beat the first game before this one.

>>720086030 (OP)
Pros
>better movement
>better combat
>better bosses
>better challenge level
>better area layouts
>better overall map design
>better progression and subtle guidance
>side quests are a nice addition
>much less backtracking
>losing rosary beads is much less frustrating than losing geo (because benches are closer, movement is faster to get back there, and you can make them into strings/necklaces so they aren't lost upon death)
>tools are a nice addition

Cons
>OST is about the same or worse
>not enough currency in Act 1 leads to some farming if you want most items
>crests are a bit underfleshed, and give you little incentive to change them out

Overall, Hollow Knight was like a 5/10, Silksong is like a 9.5/10

>>720086192
>semi-linear subtly guided progression (similar to Super Metroid)
I prefer NEStroid
>clear direction of where to go instead of just aimlessly wandering around trying out every single path to see which one is the right one
This is a negative for me
>maps have way less dead-ends and are much less labyrinthine
So it’s more of a game designed for the player and less a world on its own. That’s another neg
>tons of little secrets that actually matter instead of just being pointless garbage
What was pointless in Hollow Knight? Idk what you’re talking about here.
>Hornet is significantly faster and more mobile navigating through the map
This is neutral
>backtracking is significantly reduced with the fast travel system
So, again, it’s a concession made for the player at the expense of a more immersive world. See: Dark Souls 1 with no fast travel until lordvessel compared with every other souls game.
>benches are more frequent
This is neutral, not positive

I’m planning to get this game because I enjoyed Hollow Knight but you’re not really selling it. If anything you’re making it sound casualised and less special

>>720086030 (OP)
worse balancing
the start of the game is way too hard

The Greenpath theme from HK mogs every single track in Silksong. You hate to see it.

>>720087730
>I like big giant randomly generated labyrinths where you just aimlessly meander with no clear sense of direction and then whenever you get a powerup you do a giant loop around the entire fucking map checking every single gate to see which you can open and which is the critical path vs. the 95% that are just dead-ends with pointless garbage
If this is you (and I genuinely hope it's not), then yes, you will prefer Hollow Knight over Silksong.

>>720087730
>See: Dark Souls 1 with no fast travel until lordvessel compared with every other souls game.
You really have to stop this shit. A good quarter of the zones and bosses in Dark Souls are abject shit, there is backtracking out the absolute ass, key NPCs, merchants, and quest givers are on complete opposite sides of the world, and the 1:1 scale open world just starts to fall apart at the seams as the game goes on, with giant empty hallways and elevators of nothingness to disguise loading screens, huge empty rooms just to make a zone mesh neatly with another zone, and multiple zones of complete filler that serve only to connect different areas together. It's no coincidence the two strongest zones by far, Sen's Fortress and Painted World, are both self-contained.

Dark Souls has some high highs, but some of the lowest lows; you could cut out a good 30-40% of the game and it would be much better for it. It's honestly the weakest of the four Souls games, unless you're just a complete sucker for interconnected metroidvania worlds to the point where you ignore its gaping flaws.

>>720088052
There’s a term for what you’re doing here where you write a big wall of text meant to represent my position but it’s not actually my position at all — but it escapes me. You seem really intelligent though I’m sure you can figure it out

>>720087730
If you enjoyed HK you'll like Silksong, it's quite literally more HK. If you didn't like HK you won't like Silksong. Simple as.

>>720088230
Dark Souls 1 > 2 > 3
It got worse with each iteration.
Demons is about on par with 1, Elden about on par with 2.

>>720088418
Demon's > 3 > 2 > 1

>>720088358
I’m still getting it when I’m done with a few other games

>>720088230
What a shit opinion

>>720088462
3 is a straight line

>>720088358
I didn't like Hollow Knight because it wasn't structured like a proper metroidvania, while Silksong is.

>>720086192
If you haven't figured out he's lying out his ass by this:
>tons of little secrets that actually matter instead of just being pointless garbage
point, then you might just be retarded. None of the collectables actually matter, secrets are usually just worthless currency.

Sekiro=DS1>BB>DeS>ER>DS3>DS2

It's better
It's like ALTTP compared to zelda 1

>>720088535
>>720088556
1 is by far the worst game in the series, only a complete fucking retard could prefer it

>>720088654
Alttp isn't 10x harder than zelda 1

>>720088635
This depends on where you are in the game tbdesu, post and pre widow SS are structured so differently in terms of rewards

>>720088718
Silksong isn't really that much harder, once you get some tools, the poison upgrade, the fractured mask, etc. There are a ton of ways to make the game easier. You don't have to beat every boss the first time you encounter it.

>>720086030 (OP)
>better combat
>better platforming
>platforming is integrated with combat better
>generally better level design
>higher difficulty

>I cared about the story and character far more in the base game
>no Path of Pain 2.0 so far (though Mount Fay and Sands of Kharak were a lot of fun)
>no "holy fuck I'm so lost what in the fuck is Deepnest" moment
>no "wait, I was supposed to enter City of Tears early on? not in the latter half of the game?" moment
>exploration feels more linear in Act 1 (Silksong's Act 2 is on part with the original game)
The sequel is overall better, but I can't help but feel the game lost some of its charm.

>>720086192
>>semi-linear subtly guided progression (similar to Super Metroid)
>>clear direction of where to go instead of just aimlessly wandering around trying out every single path to see which one is the right one
>>maps have way less dead-ends and are much less labyrinthine
I hate this part, I WANT to feel lost. Act 2 luckily feels labyrinthine and nonlinear enough, I'm having fun just exploring wherever and half-ignoring the main quest.

>>720088605
HK and SS aren't metroidvanias, they are hollow-likes. Nothing in the metroidvania genre has come even close to the quality that HK and SS has reached. Vaniaslop is basically a crude predecessor to hollow-likes.

>>720086030 (OP)
Much better

>>720089214
idgi

>>720087589
>better movement
Yes
>better combat
No/More dynamic
>better bosses
Meh
>better challenge level
>better area layouts
No, better platforming challenges
>better progression
No
>Side quests are a nice addition
No
>Much less backtracking
Yes
>losing rosary beads is much less frustrating than losing geo (because benches are closer, movement is faster to get back there, and you can make them into strings/necklaces so they aren't lost upon death)
Meh
>tools are a nice addition
Meh

>>720089282
Genuinely how is progression not better? Unless you don't like the semi-guided act 1, then I guess I could see it.

>>720088846
>no "holy fuck I'm so lost what in the fuck is Deepnest" moment
Happened to me when I went from Sinner's Road to Bilewater and then to the Mist in one go before getting raped by ghosts

overall better, combat and movement take center stage and are massive upgrades to hollow knight, but some things are direct downgrades:

>very specific boss runbacks have no reason to be as long/ tedious as they are
just respawn us outside the boss room, you want to make boss gameplay more challenging and us faster? fine, why are we wasting time pretending this aspect of these games is even remotely interesting then

>no iframes on dash
shit design which shows itself when you have multiple enemies on screen, each with their own rng movement and moveset, it punishes you for no reason
played through the first half without it and started another save with an iframe-on-dash mod, the game is objectively better with it on

>music is not as good
not as memorable though the tracks are pretty solid overall, if hollow knight was a 9/10, silksong's music thus far is 8/10 (i only just got to the citadel though so might not be true later)

>side quests force way too much backtracking and there is nothing to offset it
unlockable bench teleport near end-game or post-game would fix this

>>720089631
Sinner's Road was great, that bench fakeout followed by a platforming challenge was a masterstroke.
>Bilewater
>Mist
Excited for those two, haven't gotten to them yet.

Reditfags actually download mods to make it all 1 mask damage lmao fucking pathetic

>>720086030 (OP)
better I think. better schmoovement, it's deeper and more expressive

>>720089758
>>no iframes on dash
this is a good thing. I fucking hate i-frame spam in modern games. Positioning used to fucking matter instead of just pressing the invincibility button

>>720086030 (OP)
worse

>>720089272
the pic is saying the entire first hollow knight game is a tutorial for silksong.

>>720090376
that would be true if there werent tiny areas, some of which reduce in size as the fight goes on, while spawning multiple enemies

sometimes, literally just due to RNG you take a hit because of the position of the mobs and the attack chosen of the boss, there is no positioning that could've saved you from being hit, you just eat one (potentially more because now we also added multihit!)

its a bad design decision given the restrictions of the game, iframe dash was in the first game for a reason, ari got too high on his own supply and forgot that

>>720086030 (OP)
Hollow Knight is objectively the better game from its narrative to its music to its gameplay to its damn near everything. Idk what we're smoking in this thread but to say Silksong's movement is better with that shitty dash sprint mechanic and clunky diagonal down slash is insane, it's like nobody here finished or even attempted Path of Pain, Hollow Knight's movement is infinitely more smooth.

>>720086030 (OP)
it's the same game with 8 years of testers tuning it into a harder version with worse movement. it's hilarious that they actually included the base games moveset as an item you can equip later. it's like they knew they fucked up

>>720090886
>clunky diagonal down slash
ask me how i know you didnt make it past the first ~2 hours of gameplay

>>720091162
do they eventually give pogo enough range to not feel like total dogshit

>>720086192
I agree with everything you said, but Hollow Knight's areas felt larger to me and I don't like how fast I'm flying through areas in this one. Areas felt more memorable and meaningful in the first game.

>>720091161
>worse movement
what? even people who hate Silksong can acknowledge the movement is far better

>>720090886
>that shitty dash sprint mechanic and clunky diagonal down slash
You didn't play the game or you're retarded.
>>720091161
>worse movement
You're stupid.

>>720086030 (OP)
>woke girlboss power fantasy
You tell me

>>720086030 (OP)
It's so much better it's not even fucking funny. Hollow Knight was an 8/10, a great metroidvania with a lot of unique ideas and great visuals but lacking polish. Silksong is an actual 10/10, it will go down in history as one of the greatest games of all time. It exceeded the sky high expectations the years long hype train produced.

reading posts like these makes me laugh uncontrollably >>720092598
this is what retards actually believe

>>720091728
the first crest you get lets you do a HK-esque normal downslash without the 45 degree tilt

some people seem to like the hunter crest but that downslash is burned into my memory from the first game and changing it now is just a no-go for me, muscle memory just takes over and you have to pogo during so many fights because you dont have an iframe dash

>>720091728
you can change your pogo with different crests. one of them just straight up gives you the pogo from the first game.

>>720092520
Go back to kotaku.

>>720092853
Hating woke slop is obviously a kotaku trait, you got me

>>720088635
>None of the collectables actually matter
I found a vendor with multiple new tools behind a random breakable wall in the middle of nowhere

>>720092673
I mean how is he wrong though. I've beat probably more than a thousand games, hundreds and hundreds of the all-time classics. Silksong is like top 5, maybe top 3 even, easily.

100%'d Hollow Knight back in the day. Put 52 hours in to Silksong since it came out, and I have gotten the true ending. Gonna take a break for a bit then return for a second playthrough to 100% it.
Silksong is a big upgrade overall. HK still has its place, but Silksong feels like a meaningful iteration on everything HK was working with. There's really not much else to say, they did a great job of iterating on the formula.

>>720093002
Honeymoon phase/buyer's high. I've been there, brother.
This game is not even top 1000.

>>720093103
I don't have nostalgia or honeymoons.

Post 3x3 faggot contrarian.

>>720094097
>youre a contrarian now if you dont suck the cock of vibe coded bargain bin indie dogshit
Nu-/v/ in a nutshell

Do I need to have played the first game to get into this one?

>>720094097
He's not wrong. Silksong has the depth of No Man's Sky

>>720094248
plot's very disconnected as far as i can tell but the difficulty curve is very steep if you haven't played hk1 first. even if you're good enough to jump directly into ss the two are very similar games and HK1 will feel disappointing if you've already done SS - might as well do them in order to get the most out of them

>>720087589
>side quests are a nice addition

LOL no, it's one of the worst additions:
>"Go kill X creatures."
>"Donate X amount of currency, which you get from killing creatures."
>"Go fetch me X amount of bells, which respawn randomly as you repeatedly leave the room."

They're painfully uninspired and ultimately bring the game's quality down.

>>720087589
>Overall, Hollow Knight was like a 5/10, Silksong is like a 9.5/10
LMAO you guys are hilarious

>>720086030 (OP)
i'm wondering if i should get this on PS5. i got the original hollow knight on the switch, but seeing how shitty nintendo is nowadays im not sure i want to buy anything digital from them anymore. either steam or ps5

>>720094568
The PS5 port is pretty good. Hollow Knight had a shit ton of input lag on PS4, but this has like half as much.

>>720086192
I thought direction in Hollow Knight was pretty clear you just do a loop around back to the starting area and then go in reverse to kill the dreamers.

Hollow Knight has the better lore. Therefore, it’s the better game.

>>720086192
Yeah. I played like a retard thinking it'd be like Hollow Knight and wasted way more time, I fucking realized that my stupid ass should've just kept doing what the game asks because it actually fast tracks most of the updates needed. Sure, there are some things you can do early, but it's so much easier when you have everything together because you can just grab everything you need in a zone.

>>720094984
HK lore is legit just dark souls with bugs, it's so uninteresting. Hoping Silksong is a bit better.

>>720086030 (OP)
>farming items
>fetch quests
>overtuned enemy health and damage
>fuck all rewards for exploring

How did it all go so wrong, bros.

I like it more than HK, but I'd still like it more than HK if some boss runs where shorter and some bosses(SBF) only did 1 mask of damage, and more people would like it too.

>>720086030 (OP)
Better and its not even close. The only thing HK does better than Silksong is the Charm System.

>>720086192
fpbp

>>720092164
>but Hollow Knight's areas felt larger to me
When I first started playing silksong I felt the same as you but I'm in the late game and the areas feel way larger than HK's. The thing is the areas in SS are split in the mini sub areas.

>>720086030 (OP)
Skong mogs the original HK
>Better movement
>Better combat
>Better story
>Better protagonist
>Better NPC's
>Better world design
>Better abilities
>Better bosses
>Music is even.
Silksong is legitimately the best metroidvania.

>>720086192
>>maps have way less dead-ends and are much less labyrinthine
>>tons of little secrets that actually matter instead of just being pointless garbage
>>backtracking is significantly reduced with the fast travel system
>>benches are more frequent
So people are just allowed to lie on the internet now?

>>720102605
i think some people are still playing the version they built in their head for 8 years

>>720096614
So far looks like Silksong is just Bloodborne but with silk instead of blood