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Anonymous No.720136478 [Report] >>720141275 >>720143298 >>720145671 >>720146280 >>720148064 >>720148651 >>720149512 >>720150195 >>720150931 >>720152953 >>720155272 >>720155472 >>720161542 >>720165890 >>720166207 >>720167206 >>720171327 >>720171843
>Form is called Mastered Ultra Instinct
>He doesnt know how to use it again

What?
Anonymous No.720136551 [Report] >>720139074 >>720139157 >>720139560 >>720145790 >>720150756
Growing up is learning that all shounen anime is fucking garbage.
Anonymous No.720136553 [Report] >>720144946
I'm Nappa and that's Vegeta, he was a prison bitch.
Anonymous No.720136581 [Report] >>720139520 >>720149272 >>720150931 >>720158668
>Goku was like 60% of beerus' strength during botg
>Goku gets like 6 power ups
>still weaker
huh
Anonymous No.720139040 [Report] >>720139159 >>720139327 >>720139401
Toriyama gave up on dragon ball midway through Z
saucy No.720139074 [Report] >>720145065 >>720158219
>>720136551
Bleach was good tho
Anonymous No.720139154 [Report] >>720141275 >>720150326 >>720150931 >>720159372 >>720165675 >>720166439 >>720166796
>Freiza is the STRONGEST BEING IN THE UNIVERSE
>Well actually a human on earth can make several androids stronger than him
>well actually there's a pink ball guy who is 1000x times stronger and older
Anonymous No.720139157 [Report]
>>720136551
i think you mean battle shonen, but you're absolutely right
Anonymous No.720139159 [Report] >>720143932
>>720139040
The Boo arc was literally his favourite one to write with all his favourite characters.
Anonymous No.720139327 [Report] >>720143781 >>720143932 >>720147181 >>720147353
>>720139040
Toriyama originally wanted to end the story with 23rd Tenkaichi Budōkai and Piccolo, after that he kept making the manga because fans and editors demanded it.
Anonymous No.720139401 [Report] >>720143781
>>720139040
He was already checked out before the Saiyan Saga even finished. Man was overworked and barely wanted to draw anymore. Every big arc after that feels like him throwing darts at a board of "things 12-year-olds would think are cool." Androids? Cool. Time travel? Sick. Space demon wizard blob? Why not. Somehow it still ruled though. Ain’t even mad.
Anonymous No.720139520 [Report] >>720149272
>>720136581
Maybe beerus did some training off screen.
Anonymous No.720139560 [Report] >>720144829
>>720136551
HxH and YYH are great
Anonymous No.720140394 [Report] >>720144254 >>720144817
Dragon Ball AF is canon.
Anonymous No.720141275 [Report] >>720150326
>>720136478 (OP)
Ultra Instinct looks cool, but everything else about the form is stupid, starting with the fact that Goku begins this tournament so out of shape that he gets slightly hurt by bullets and ends the tournament stronger than the gods.

>>720139154
Don't forget the space goat.
Anonymous No.720143298 [Report]
>>720136478 (OP)
The name is a misnomer. It's still not a mastered form of Ultra Instinct.
Anonymous No.720143781 [Report] >>720146105 >>720146704 >>720147083
>>720139327
>>720139401
DB manga arcs:

>Hunt for the Dragon Balls
>21st Tenkaichi Budoukai
>Red Ribbon Army
>22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai
>Demon King Piccolo / Piccolo Daimao
>23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai
>Attack of the Saiyans (Raditz/Nappa/Vegeta)
>Namek
>Dr Gero/Androids/Cell
>Majin Buu
>End of Z (taking place ten years after the end of Majin Buu)

Super:

>Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!! (written by Toriyama)
>Battle of Gods (written by Toriyama)
>Jaco the Galactic Patrolman (written by Toriyama)
>Resurrection F (written by Toriyama)
>Universe 6/God of Destruction Champa
>Future Trunks
>Universe Survival
>Broly (written by Toriyama)
>Galactic Patrol Prisoner (written by Toyotaro)
>Granolah the Survivor (written by Toyotaro)
>Super Hero (written by Toriyama)

Rank them.
Anonymous No.720143932 [Report] >>720146571 >>720156837
>>720139327
>>720139159
The 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai arc is the beginning of the best stretch of the story, which goes until the Freeza arc.

>I liked adventure more, but it seemed at the time a road manga just wasn’t what people wanted.
>Though I was reluctant to do it, the series’ popularity did indeed start to pick up around the Tenka’ichi Budōkai… And despite my reluctance, it still felt pretty good.

And after Freeza, he was pretty much phoning it in:

>Interviewer: How did you feel as you were drawing the final portions of the series?
>Toriyama: The Artificial Human and Cell story arc was pretty rough… I guess you could say I did all I could with Freeza, so I was burned out, and figured I couldn’t pull off a better battle than that. I thought, “Do I really have to keep going?” Even when Cell ended, it still didn’t feel like it could end. So before the Boo story arc began, I said “Once this next thing wraps up, I want to end it no matter what.” Because I thought there was no way for any stronger guys to pop up, or for Goku to get any stronger than he already was. So my starting point for the Boo arc was, “This is the end, so I’m going to draw whatever I want!” I always liked dumb gags, so I made things comical, with the Great Saiyaman and Gotenks and whatnot. It wasn’t until immediately before the final chapter that I thought up the ending. I needed something that would signal this truly was the end, so I jumped forward ten years… But I didn’t count on the series continuing in anime form, so I bet it was really rough on everyone over at the anime company. (laughs) When the kanzenban came out several years later, I added a bit more to the ending. I thought that somehow it just didn’t click. I wanted to make it more clear that Goku’s battles were over, and that a new generation was taking over.

Toriyama was drawing the manga chapters, supervising the anime, designing movie characters, etc
Anonymous No.720144254 [Report] >>720144691
>>720140394
Which version? Young Jijii or Toyotaro?
Anonymous No.720144691 [Report]
>>720144254
Jiji and his waifu that's a mix of Android 21 and Pan, obviously
Anonymous No.720144817 [Report]
>>720140394
Everything is canon.
Anonymous No.720144829 [Report] >>720146423 >>720147263
>>720139560
>dude you were actually a demon the whole time lmao
Anonymous No.720144946 [Report] >>720145083 >>720149117 >>720149589 >>720165398 >>720168192 >>720171065
>>720136553
At what point did the abridged completely fall off? Like was it during the freeza saga or android saga?
Anonymous No.720145065 [Report] >>720145530
>>720139074
you are joking right? thats probably the worst out of all shonen
Anonymous No.720145083 [Report] >>720153204
>>720144946
After Cell Saga
saucy No.720145530 [Report]
>>720145065
>he doesn't like unusually abrupt entrances and anticlimactic villains

https://youtu.be/iAKSz3wHomc
Anonymous No.720145671 [Report] >>720150931
>>720136478 (OP)
Quote a SINGLE official source that calls it "Mastered Ultra Instinct". You won't find it because it's a dumbass fan name made up by a dumbass fandom that can't read.
Anonymous No.720145790 [Report] >>720146015
>>720136551
How do moeshitters become so elitist? You watch little girl shows.
Anonymous No.720146015 [Report]
>>720145790
moe is for the male audience. shojo anime is all about mid bookish girls being raped by noodle-armed prettyboys with hands that can palm a watermelon
Anonymous No.720146105 [Report]
>>720143781
Battle of Gods and Broly are the only good things from Super.
Anonymous No.720146280 [Report] >>720146405
>>720136478 (OP)
Ultra instinct should be a passive and not a transformation if it's mastered.
Anonymous No.720146405 [Report]
>>720146280
It is a passive, at least for its intended users, the Angels. Mortals like Goku have to rationalize it in their minds in order to get a tangible grasp on the state of Ultra Instinct, and Goku's methodology was equating "getting into the mind, body and soul set necessary to achieve Ultra Instinct" to a transformation.
Anonymous No.720146423 [Report]
>>720144829
Half-demon.
Anonymous No.720146495 [Report] >>720150931
Gojo would kill Goku
Anonymous No.720146571 [Report] >>720147279
>>720143932
All he wanted was to get out but they kept exploiting him and forcing him to make more content for something that effectively wrapped up in the Frieza saga as far as he was concerned. It's a shame that he never got to retire. Maybe if he did he would have lived longer.
Anonymous No.720146704 [Report] >>720146856
>>720143781
Jaco was really cozy up until the Dragon Ball tie-in at the end. And the less we talk about minus the better
> WE MUST BE BETTER SAIYAJINS
Anonymous No.720146810 [Report] >>720147227
Dbs goku and vegeta literaly act like from abridged
Anonymous No.720146856 [Report]
>>720146704
>effectively shits on all of Dragon Ball by saying "oh, that? that was thanks to his daddy's wish for his sons to prosper until they became adults lol"
Anonymous No.720147083 [Report]
>>720143781
you're forgetting someone's story
Anonymous No.720147181 [Report]
>>720139327
There's about 7 different points Toriyama wanted to end it. It's a meaningless thing to bring up.
Anonymous No.720147227 [Report] >>720147424 >>720147530 >>720147546
>>720146810
This. They act like parodies of themselves. Vegeta is just an overall meme in Super and Goku literally became mentally retarded, and i mean that in the sense that he acts like he did when he was a kid as if he never had character development.
Anonymous No.720147263 [Report]
>>720144829
The ending isn't great for YYH but yeah
Anonymous No.720147279 [Report]
>>720146571
>It's a shame that he never got to retire.

He literally retired after the Buu Saga and came back 17 years later for Battle of Gods
Anonymous No.720147353 [Report] >>720147636
>>720139327
He originally intended it to be a one-shot and end after Pilaf. Dragon Ball was from the very beginning something with zero planning that he wrote on the spot.
Anonymous No.720147424 [Report]
>>720147227
Not true. Kid Goku actually cared about his friends and the people around him more than getting a good fight.
Anonymous No.720147530 [Report]
>>720147227
That's an insult to Kid Goku's character. He loved fighting and self-improvement, but he put his friends first and foremost. Little nigga literally only went the extra mile to beat King Piccolo in the rematch because he wanted to avenge Krillin.
Anonymous No.720147546 [Report]
>>720147227
>This. They act like parodies of themselves. Vegeta is just an overall meme in Super and Goku literally became mentally retarded, and i mean that in the sense that he acts like he did when he was a kid as if he never had character development.

When you think about it, most characters completed their respective character arcs in the Cell saga. Even Bejita's "Number one" moment in Buu is a more direct and "to the face" version of "I'm no warrior and I will never fight again."
Anonymous No.720147636 [Report]
>>720147353
>Dragon Ball was from the very beginning something with zero planning that he wrote on the spot.

Toriyama stated that he planned Namek since the 23rd budokai
Anonymous No.720147795 [Report]
This is also what made the Saiyan arc so good that nothing that came after it will surpass it IMO. No other shounen that came after Dragon Ball will ever match the Saiyan arc in terms of raw brutality because Vegeta BREAKS Goku. And before anyone says "so what, other villains beat Goku to a pulp", Vegeta doesn't just beat up Goku, he BREAKS him.

There is no super shounen bullshit. No "everything i've got!" last-ditch ultimate move, no "~share your energy~" everybody-contributes, no suddenly-relevant legends, no self-sacrificing heroism, no miracles. Hell, most of these come up and Vegeta just gives them the middle finger.

The main character spends half the fight in a crumpled heap with Vegeta occasionally jumping over and kicking him in the ribs. Mr. Hidden Potential gets his shit wrecked no matter how mad he gets. All their Super Special Mystical training is useless. The Everybody Helps technique fails completely. Even Oozaru doesn't work, Vegeta cuts off Gohan's tail before the beast really damages him. It's only the pure dumb luck that Gohan happened to land on Vegeta that finally brings him down after an entire day of fighting him.

It's a beautifully brutal fight that outdoes everything before and after, and perfectly encapsulates on who Vegeta is: the complete opposite of everything "shounen."

Also, even if I think the Saiyan arc was the apex of Dragon Ball, there were still traces of that raw brutality in the Cell and Buu arcs. Cell came back after Goku literally sacrificed himself, and suddenly was just as strong as Gohan and his sacrifice amounts to nothing. If this was any other shounen, then Goku's heroic sacrifice would work or weaken Cell just enough for Gohan to deliver the final blow.
Anonymous No.720147947 [Report] >>720148053 >>720148101 >>720148236 >>720148410
Super reminds us that the main philosophy of Dragon Ball is there's always someone better.

>Raditz was better than Goku and Piccolo
>Nappa was better than Raditz
>Vegeta was better than Nappa
>Ginyu was better than Vegeta
>Freeza was better than Ginyu
>Cell was better than Freeza
>Majin Buu was better than Freeza and Cell
>Beerus was better than Freeza, Cell, and Majin Buu
>Jiren was better than Beerus

It's about overcoming any problem by pushing your limits, never giving up, staying positive, taking your anger and channeling it into something positive.
Anonymous No.720148053 [Report] >>720157159
>>720147947
>Jiren was better than Beerus
lol
lmao even
Anonymous No.720148064 [Report] >>720165128
>>720136478 (OP)
Still cant beat superman btw
Anonymous No.720148101 [Report] >>720148440
>>720147947
>the only thing better than the Zenohs, the definitive apex hurdle as we know it, is Tori-Bot, Toriyama's self-insert
>the only thing better than Toribot are the executives and editors who command him
Somehow, this all wrapped around to being too real.
Anonymous No.720148236 [Report]
>>720147947
Some notes from an interview that they did to Ryōta Nakamura & Satoru Takami, director and producer of the ToP anime, in case you care about Toriyama's role in this arc:

>The Universe Survival arc likewise started off with an original draft from Toriyama-sensei. This draft flat-out said “80 people fighting all in a jumble” (laughs) At that time we also received several character design images drawn by Toriyama-sensei himself. In addition, there was the design image for the Tournament of Power’s arena which the Great Priest built. Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo, and the God of Destruction Quitela were the first characters drawn (by Toriyama).

>Universe 11’s Pride Troopers weren’t in his designs, but since Jiren and co. all wore the same red and black suits, he allowed us to flesh it out like that.

>We thought it might be best to make Jiren very talkative, so we came up with the background of him being a hero of justice. Jiren was central to this squadron of heroes. When we suggested that to Toriyama-sensei, he replied that “Jiren is a character who doesn’t speak.” It was then that Toriyama-sensei sent us the backstory that his parents and martial arts master had been killed. And so the characterization of Jiren that we originally came up with was passed on to Toppo.

>Toriyama-sensei‘s background for Toppo included that he was a candidate for God of Destruction.

>Universe 2 Ribrianne’s fat appearance from after she transforms was also designed by Toriyama-sensei. We took that and added in the idea that a cute girl would transform into that fat person.

>Goku breaks through his limits because he’s taken to heart the Turtle Hermit’s lesson (...) since the Turtle Hermit’s teachings paved the way for “Ultra Instinct”, this is a theme that runs from Goku’s childhood in Dragon Ball all the way to Dragon Ball Super.

1/2
Anonymous No.720148410 [Report]
>>720147947
The problem is when you push the threat too high. Majin Buu wasn't just "better than cell". He was so powerful he was a threat to existence itself. If they didn't defeat him on Kaio's planet Buu would have gone on to destroy literally everything from the universe to the afterlife itself and we were told there was nothing capable of stopping him. Now Buu's a fly. Even in his most powerful incarnation he wouldn't even be a threat anymore. Stuff like that is what causes problems because it suspends disbelief too far; you're asking too much from the reader.
Anonymous No.720148440 [Report]
>>720148101
>>the only thing better than Toribot are the executives and editors who command him

Toriyama didn't have any editors for Super, but Akio Iyoku told Toriyama to bring back Future Trunks, Broly, and make Daima. Toyotaro wanted Moro, Granolah and Black Freeza

Toriyama probably planned to end Super with the tournament of power.
Anonymous No.720148651 [Report] >>720148785 >>720148908
>>720136478 (OP)
Ultra Instinct is a retarded name for a transformation and it shouldn't have been a transformation to begin with. It should have been a state of mind as they initially built it up.
The UI Omen or whatever it was named that he did before the full transformation is what UI should have been at most.
Moving Goku (and Vegeta) away from their Saiyan legacy is fucking stupid but I guess the corporate suits really wanted a new transformation
Anonymous No.720148704 [Report] >>720150931 >>720152945 >>720162749
What's the verdict on Moro?
Anonymous No.720148785 [Report] >>720148943 >>720149368
>>720148651
>Ultra Instinct is a retarded name for a transformation and it shouldn't have been a transformation to begin with. It should have been a state of mind as they initially built it up.

Ultra Instinct is called 身勝手の極意, the mastery/control/perfection/secrets/arts (極意 gokui) of the selfishness (身勝手 migatte), but there's a pun here since the japanese term for selfishness is written with the characters for "a body moving on its own". Thus, it plays with how angels can't side with mortals and help (have to be selfish and worry only about their divine stuff) and how the technique makes your body move by itself.
Basically, there's NO mention of instinct, they just adapted 極意 as "ultra" and 身勝手 as "instinct". That's why both Beerus and Vegeta mention their destroying instincts but it doesn't reference UI whatsoever, Vegeta instead comes up with the namen 我儘の極意, which means roughly the same but using a different word for selfishness (我儘 wagamama), one that doesn't convey the movement of the body and is instead more on the line of a "bad" selfishness, an egoistical one, a parallel to Goku's UI. Similar, but different, a different type of selfishness, hence the "ego" of the western name.

Toyotaro, who came up with UE, also defines the difference between UI and UE as "your body moving exactly how it wants" and "you moving your body exactly how you want". Two different takes of selfishness. One is devoid of thoughts and based on your body, the other is focused on its desires and based on your mind.
Anonymous No.720148908 [Report] >>720149368 >>720149425 >>720149764 >>720150780
>>720148651
>Moving Goku (and Vegeta) away from their Saiyan legacy is fucking stupid but I guess the corporate suits really wanted a new transformation

Toriyama designed Super Saiyan Blue and Ultra Instinct

>Son Goku
>I made his hair light blue to express how “by overcoming a certain limit he has become both strong and tranquil, able to keep his composure in a fight”.

>Vegeta
>I gave Vegeta black clothes because I figured that maybe Bulma had modified his combat uniform to add some slight improvements. On that note, it was constructed by the [Capsule Corp.] development branch under Bulma’s instructions.

— Akira Toriyama, Dragon Ball Volume “F”
Anonymous No.720148943 [Report]
>>720148785
All that shit just to have what is functionally just Super Saiyan Silver and Super Saiyan Purple.
Anonymous No.720149065 [Report] >>720149498 >>720149584
The like half form where Goku was just flow state and super dodgy was way cooler than the gaudy glowing white form.
Anonymous No.720149117 [Report] >>720149306 >>720150931 >>720165398
>>720144946
When it went from a silly parody with corny jokes to a dumbed down retelling of the story with random reddit humour sprinkled into every scene.
Anonymous No.720149272 [Report] >>720155140 >>720156486
>>720136581
>>720139520
Beerus has unfathomable power. He didnt have 60% of beerus' power during botg. Beerus had just woken up & was still weak. He was 60% of beerus power at that moment in time, & since he is a lazy fuck there's no telling how strong beerus actually is. He is training goku & vegeta as destroyers though. Or was before toriyama died & left Gohan & frieza as the strongest characters.
Anonymous No.720149306 [Report] >>720150931
>>720149117
>Goku is a bad father Piccolo is better xD
Worst consequence of DBZA
Anonymous No.720149368 [Report] >>720149463
>>720148785
>>720148908
How did I trigger not 1 but to pastas?
Anonymous No.720149425 [Report]
>>720148908
that's not how biceps work
Anonymous No.720149463 [Report]
>>720149368
Spics take their "Super Saiyan but BIGGERER" logistics very, very seriously.
Anonymous No.720149498 [Report] >>720149604 >>720150250 >>720157409
>>720149065
>The like half form where Goku was just flow state and super dodgy was way cooler than the gaudy glowing white form.

Ultra instinct sign was literally toei's idea in the first place

This is how the manga handled it
Anonymous No.720149512 [Report]
>>720136478 (OP)
I fucking miss when Dragon ball was for Teenagers. Now its for fucking babies 5 year old. No blood and no swears. Also bluray rereleases are censored in japan.

Fuck this shit.
Anonymous No.720149584 [Report] >>720151053
>>720149065
which is why in the post-ToP manga Toyotaro retconned it to the -sign- form being the TRUE form. with the silver/white hair being "Goku tapping into energy that isn't his" or some shit.
Anonymous No.720149589 [Report]
>>720144946
When fagboy's self insert Trunks showed up.
Anonymous No.720149604 [Report] >>720160001 >>720160001
>>720149498
Ok but I still stand by it. MUI looks like shit.
Anonymous No.720149687 [Report] >>720149754
>Toriyama-sensei drew all the enemy characters, such as Coola and Neiz, up to and including a height-comparison chart. They even came with colors, so there was no need to change them. There would be no point in changing them. (laughs) It made it a breeze being the one making them, so I was grateful.

>The enemies this time were all Toriyama-sensei’s designs. I was amazed every time at the abundance of characters Sensei could pull out of thin air.

— Minoru Maeda

Toriyama truly was GOAT
Anonymous No.720149754 [Report] >>720160001
>>720149687
They should make Cooler canon next, the Broly rework was great.
Anonymous No.720149764 [Report] >>720149890 >>720149898
>>720148908
It's wild how they pivoted back from the RoF outfits after the U6 tournament arc. Such a shame cause, but that's Shieusha for you.
They do the same thing with One Piece, where the Straw Hats are always in their first post-timeskip outfit for any new game/marketing.
Anonymous No.720149890 [Report]
>>720149764
>where the Straw Hats are always in their first post-timeskip outfit for any new game/marketing.
Which is pretty much their worst look too.
Anonymous No.720149898 [Report]
>>720149764
One Piece is so fucking ugly man. It could be the best story ever written but I just can't get into it because I find it visually repulsive.
Anonymous No.720150164 [Report]
"Why don't you wake up? You're hurting people, what have they done to you?"
Anonymous No.720150195 [Report]
>>720136478 (OP)
Don't worry the following arcs say they they lied and it's in fact not mastered.

This is only partly why I stopped following Super after Moro arc ended. More arc was actually a good "back to form" to end on. Get a decent anime adaption and end everything there.
Anonymous No.720150238 [Report] >>720150303 >>720150630 >>720150720 >>720150742 >>720156704
Reminder that Toyotaro wrote himself into a corner

Ultra ego will be forgotten, Toriyama wanted Vegeta to fight like Jiren and that is the opposite of UE.
Anonymous No.720150250 [Report] >>720160486 >>720161218
>>720149498
I hate every transformation in Super but what I despise the most is how fucking skinny they are.
Anonymous No.720150303 [Report]
>>720150238
Who cares about the jobber's forms, anyway? This is Goku's manga.
Anonymous No.720150326 [Report]
>>720139154
>>720141275
>Actually Frieza is the STRONGEST BEING IN THE UNIVERSE all over again
Anonymous No.720150630 [Report] >>720150742
>>720150238
The more I look at it the more I dislike it.
My favorite form was just basic god Vegeta with red hair. Ego looks dumb compared to it.
Anonymous No.720150720 [Report]
>>720150238
>I asked for more Dragonballz
>I got Trollz
Anonymous No.720150742 [Report]
>>720150238
>>720150630
Ego is cool conceptually but yeah it looks fucking retarded. No idea why Toriyama decided a lack of eyebrows is code for "powerful" but it looks stupid.
Anonymous No.720150756 [Report]
>>720136551
Konjiki no Gash is perfection though.
Anonymous No.720150780 [Report] >>720150931
>>720148908
Explain Super Cyan to me like I'm 12.
Anonymous No.720150931 [Report]
>>720149117
>>720149306
>>720145671
the consequences of niggas not being able to read

>>720136581
plot armor so strong that statement and other statements had to be retconned

>>720136478 (OP)
the silver haired form was always called ultra instinct not mastered ultra instinct

>>720139154
gero knew about frieza and cold

>>720146495
dead character and dead franchise

>>720148704
good but his cell-lookalike form sucks

>>720150780
god and ssj1 combined
Anonymous No.720151053 [Report] >>720153541
>>720149584
Vegeta to fight like Jiren
And what way is that exactly? Jiren is just giga strong, and stoic.
Anonymous No.720152184 [Report] >>720152652
Looking back at the Super era of anime/manga/movies, I enjoyed it. Dragon Ball was at the top of the world.
Anonymous No.720152652 [Report]
>>720152184
It really was a fun ride.
Anonymous No.720152801 [Report] >>720152871 >>720157295 >>720160001
ToP was a really fun concept, but Jiren is such a shit antagonist holy hell. He literally just stands there for 80 percent of the arc.
Anonymous No.720152871 [Report]
>>720152801
A U R A
U
R
A
Anonymous No.720152945 [Report]
>>720148704
Moro was so great at the start. The way he turned the power system on its head with his ki draining powers and magic was really interesting, his backstory with the Grand Supreme Kai was cool, and his civil relationship with Cranberry was nice too. Unfortunately he gets worse over time. The cracks start to form when his epic hyped up third wish was just a prison break he probably could have managed on his own. Also it's a little strange how Moro himself has no lore. Who is he? Where did he learn his magic? Is he a demon? He looks demonic. None of Moro's potential is really explored. Anyway, Moro goes to shit when he vores 73 and becomes not!Cell. I don't like how overpowered Moro73 is. In one move he obtains:
>copying power that lasts forever
>Piccolo's regeneration
>the techniques of the cast
>Vegeta's Spirit Fission, so Fusion is worthless
All on top of his Ki draining which already raped the power system. Cell and Buu were never this stupid. Then Moro fuses with the planet and becomes a dumb monster or something.
10/10 villain slowly becomes a 2/10. All the potential goes nowhere.
Anonymous No.720152953 [Report] >>720153048
>>720136478 (OP)
>Form is called Autistic Shit Made To Sell Toys
>Dropped due to DBSuper being complete excrement for zoomers
That's your answer.
Anonymous No.720153048 [Report]
>>720152953
CHADgon CHAD GODper was a massive success tho. Daipa flopped.
Anonymous No.720153204 [Report] >>720155270 >>720155419
>>720145083
>After Cell Saga
Oh god don't tell me they did the Buu saga? I thought they were done after Cell?
Anonymous No.720153541 [Report]
>>720151053
Super Hero says Jiren is actually about equal to Goku and Vegeta. Jiren just kept beating the shit out of them because he remained calm and was perfectly energy efficient, so all his attacks were delivered at max strength without tiring him out.
Anonymous No.720155140 [Report] >>720158121 >>720167657
>>720149272
It's just retarded powerscaling
Anonymous No.720155270 [Report] >>720155419
>>720153204
See Buu bits
Anonymous No.720155272 [Report]
>>720136478 (OP)
mastered ultra instinct is not the official name, the official one is just ultra instinct with the black hair version being called ultra instinct -sign-
Anonymous No.720155419 [Report] >>720155523
>>720153204
>>720155270
painfully unfunny, somehow unfunnier than the cell arc
Anonymous No.720155472 [Report] >>720156232
>>720136478 (OP)
>Anime-only
He can use it on command now, been able to do that for a few arcs and had Shueisha and Bird Studio not decided to pull a fuckywucky over the rights, we'd have had the Moro, Granolah and New Super Hero arcs animated by now
Anonymous No.720155523 [Report]
>>720155419
It had a few good parts.

>the culmination of the "I need an adult" running gag
>Vegeta's sacrifice
>Vegito
Anonymous No.720156232 [Report] >>720156350 >>720156694
>>720155472
So he's Whis tier now?
Anonymous No.720156350 [Report]
>>720156232
He's not even Beerus tier.
Whis is so powerful in the manga it's hard to imagine a non fusion ever surpassing him.
Anonymous No.720156486 [Report] >>720167657
>>720149272
that is such bullshit to justify shitty writing
Anonymous No.720156694 [Report]
>>720156232
Nah, Whis is still above him since Whis can maintain it indefinitely. Goku's current goal is rather than relying on the white haired state, using the black haired state.
The anime doesn't do a good job of showcasing it but the white haired UI makes him fight like a god whereas in the black haired state he fights like his usual saiyan self, Whis tells him during his fight with one of the Heeters (former informants who worked for Freeza in the past) that he should focus on using UI in a way that allows him to find his own take on the technique rather than just aping the way that the Gods and Angels fight.
Unfortunately though thanks to the ongoing legal battle with the rights we've been left on that for like 2 years now.
Power level fuckery is really weird now since Beast Gohan is comparable to white haired UI and Controlled Super Saiyan Broly is also on par with Beast Gohan so who knows how the hell the current power level pecking order is supposed to go.
Also Black Freeza is a thing and is even stronger than white haired UI.
Anonymous No.720156704 [Report]
>>720150238
they will just retcon, again. This is about franchise milking to make money
Anonymous No.720156837 [Report]
>>720143932
toriyama’s art peaked in the cell saga
Anonymous No.720157159 [Report]
>>720148053
it’s stated in the anime, yes
Anonymous No.720157295 [Report] >>720157438 >>720157926
>>720152801
I never understood why he was so unbelievably strong.

He just trained a lot for a really long time? I'm sure there were plenty of other people in the other universes doing that exact same thing.

wtf made him so special?
Anonymous No.720157409 [Report] >>720157662
>>720149498
I HATE how fucking skinny he’s drawn here
Anonymous No.720157438 [Report] >>720160001
>>720157295
According to Toriyama it was that Jiren had perfected Ki usage when fighting.
Anonymous No.720157662 [Report] >>720158778
>>720157409
why? you like looking at muscular men? fag.
Anonymous No.720157926 [Report] >>720158905
>>720157295
What made Goku and Vegeta special? They just trained too.
Anonymous No.720158121 [Report]
>>720155140
don't forget Trunks SSJ Rage (even tho i liked him)
Anonymous No.720158219 [Report]
>>720139074
Shut the fuck up shit eater.
Anonymous No.720158665 [Report]
i can't believe transformations aren't real. super saiyan is just a multiplier, god mode is just absorbing godki, and ultra instinct is just focusing. what the fuck.
Anonymous No.720158668 [Report]
>>720136581
>Goku was like 60% of beerus' strength during botg
Beerus was just awake and using 1% of his power.
Anonymous No.720158778 [Report]
>>720157662
you like twinks? fag
Anonymous No.720158905 [Report]
>>720157926
Them having saiyan genetic cheats is what made them special. They are a perfect example of why Frieza was justified in blowing them all up. Imagine a universe where he didn't blow them up and they got to run around powering up all the time until they started to exponentially power up off each other until the top 100 power rankings would just be saiyans
Anonymous No.720159372 [Report]
>>720139154
technically on his introduction freiza was the strongest in the galaxy and west kai only had knowledge over his quadrant in general. DBZ just stopped being ambitious and left the rest of the universe up in the air afterwards til buu lore and ultimately super somewhat stepped into it. The android thing was dumb though
Anonymous No.720160001 [Report]
>>720149604
>It was then that Toriyama-sensei sent us the backstory that his parents and martial arts master had been killed.
lmao

>>720149604
Wait til they combine ultra instinct with super saiyan. You know it'll happen.

>>720149754
Sorry, we're bringing back frieza for the 8th time. Please look forward to it.

But for real, I dont know why they added black frieza. Just bring back Cooler ffs. He was a sick villain and Im tired of watching them beat friezas ass for the millionth time, not to mention the frieza not frieza "frost".

>>720152801
man he could've been so good. usually when they beat the antagonists first form, he reveals a second form or a new technique and the fight becomes hopeless but jiren wasn't like that. he just had one power level and that was it. like frieza had 4 forms and they had to figure out a new way to overcome his forms every time.

>>720157438
just effortlessly stops a SSB KKx10 spirit bomb. "perfect ki usage".
Anonymous No.720160473 [Report]
>Dragon Ball Manga

Dragon Ball Kanzenban v01-34, Neko Majin v01 (Raw Scans) (Japanese) - 34 volumes
https://nyaa.si/view/1933107

Dragon Ball Super v01-23,101-104 (2017-2025) (Digital) (LuCaZ)
https://nyaa.si/view/1965793

>Dragon Ball Anime

Dragon Ball - COMPLETE (001-153) - Color Corrected Dragon Box [480p][x264]
https://nyaa.si/view/1691912

Dragon Ball Z (Not Color Corrected)
https://nyaa.si/view/1331089

Dragon Ball Z Kai
https://nyaa.si/view/2006263

Dragon Ball Z Specials (Bardock and History of Trunks)
https://nyaa.si/view/1924144

Dragon Ball Z Movies
https://nyaa.si/view/1885437

>Dragon Ball Super

Dragon Ball Z Battle of Gods
https://nyaa.si/view/1420876

Dragon Ball Z Resurrection F
https://nyaa.si/view/1422758

Dragon Ball Super (001-131)
https://nyaa.si/view/1493140

Dragon Ball Super Broly
https://nyaa.si/view/1954784

Dragon Ball Super Super Hero
https://nyaa.si/view/1905937

>DAIMA

Dragon Ball DAIMA
https://nyaa.si/view/2005548

>Seed of Might
https://xcancel.com/seedofmight
Anonymous No.720160486 [Report] >>720161218
>>720150250
Seriously, these faggot twinks are just lame and boring
Anonymous No.720161218 [Report] >>720162135 >>720164995
>>720150250
>>720160486
These lame skinny nu character designs are on Toriyama. Toei loves muscles as shown when they beefed up SSBE and MUI.
Anonymous No.720161542 [Report]
>>720136478 (OP)
>supposedly a godly technique similar to the kaioken
>but also a form that he can transform into and changes his hair color?
Anonymous No.720162135 [Report]
>>720161218
This is how a normal high schooler looks nowadays
Anonymous No.720162749 [Report] >>720163292
>>720148704
Waiting for an anime adaptation that will never happen...
Anonymous No.720163292 [Report]
>>720162749
There will never be an anime adaptation simply because DB as a product is not an adaptation.
The modern DB projects have been anime driven and the manga is completely irrelevant to them.
>GT
Anime project.
>Os! Son Goku And His Friends Return!!
Anime project.
>Kami to Kami
Anime project.
>Fukkatsu no F
Anime project.
>Dragon Ball Super
Initialized as an anime project with the manga debuting as promotional material.
>Dragon Ball Super: Broly
Anime project.
>Super Dragon Ball Heroes
Anime project.
>Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero
Anime project with a later manga adaptation.
>Dragon Ball Daima
Anime project.

Meanwhile,
>Kanzenban ending
Not adapted.
>Galactic Patrolman Trilogy
Not adapted.
>Moro Arc
Not adapted.
>Granolah Arc
Not adapted.
>Super Hero expansions
Not adapted.
>Black Freeza
Not adapted.
>Perfect Blue
Not adapted.
>Goku's hakai
Not adapted.
Anonymous No.720164995 [Report] >>720166425 >>720167994
>>720161218
Gohan was literally a high schooler during the Buu saga
Anonymous No.720165128 [Report] >>720166409
>>720148064
You're retarded. Super Saiyan 1 could best Superman.
Anonymous No.720165347 [Report] >>720166330
>anime has to play around toriyama's chosen form name
>Manga does the concept correctly
ManGODS never lose
Anonymous No.720165398 [Report]
>>720144946
>At what point did the abridged completely fall off?
Can't fall off when it was always bottom tier unfunny trash
>>720149117
>with random reddit humour sprinkled into every scene.
But that's the whole thing.
Anonymous No.720165675 [Report]
>>720139154
This actually makes sense somewhat
>Freiza is the STRONGEST BEING IN THE UNIVERSE
Well at the time yes, the androids weren't made when Freeza was alive.
>Well actually a human on earth can make several androids stronger than him
Again, the timing of it fits. As Freeza was conquering planets, Gero was likely researching how to create the Cell and the Androids in that time.
>well actually there's a pink ball guy who is 1000x times stronger and older
He was in captivity for so long entire civilizations came and went that only Gods have any memory of him.
Anonymous No.720165890 [Report]
>>720136478 (OP)
It's called Migatte no Gokui you fucking secondary.
Anonymous No.720166207 [Report]
>>720136478 (OP)
>Ultra Instinct is hyped as THE ultimate transformation
>it's just the body going on autopilot and muscle memory during a fight, something everyone can do
Anonymous No.720166330 [Report]
>>720165347
A shame about the awful art and paneling
Anonymous No.720166409 [Report] >>720166639
>>720165128
50 years before DBZ even existed, Superman already had stupid power wank, so you'll have to pick some depowered version to even come close, and by then it's pointless because you picked some depowered version to defeat. There's also meta wank beyond wank where he basically becomes the story of him winning.
Anonymous No.720166425 [Report] >>720167063
>>720164995
Toriyama in general slimmed everything down later on. Since drawing everything with defined muscles all the time was probably exhausting, my guess is he figured to streamline his design philosophy for the sake of everything being easier to put to design more readily.
Anonymous No.720166439 [Report]
>>720139154
>Freeza
Yeah.
>Artificial Humans
They were based on the current strongest guys around and Earth's technology was infinitely more advanced in many ways where space technology was not. It's really not unreasonable that a guy dedicated to developing technology to defeat a really strong guy would conceive of ways to tap into the greatest depths of power.
>Boo
Ancient evil awakens
Anonymous No.720166639 [Report] >>720167061
>>720166409
Big dummy, Action Comics 1939, And that version of Superman wasn't at all God like. He jumped, and didn't even have heat vision. Where is picrel from
Anonymous No.720166796 [Report]
>>720139154
>one day Raditz thought ''You know, I should visit my brother these days''
>this snowballs into Frieza, and King Cold's deaths and their empire in shambles
Raditz was the strongest via butterfly effect powers.
Anonymous No.720167061 [Report]
>>720166639
So Goku gets a gazillion powerups but Superman can't, because otherwise he wins. Comic's final crisis I think, some Grant Morrison wank.
Anonymous No.720167063 [Report]
>>720166425
he already solved that problem, in 1988.
Anonymous No.720167206 [Report]
>>720136478 (OP)
its not called mastered though
Anonymous No.720167657 [Report] >>720168139
>>720155140
>>720156486
There is some retardedness in Dragon Ball. But if you seriously, SERIOUSLY think that Goku was even a PINKY's worth Beerus's power in BOTG, then you seriously lack media literacy.
Anonymous No.720167994 [Report] >>720168440 >>720168527
>>720164995
You didn't post a real image of gohan. That's some edit by a deviantart user. The actual Gohan during the high school parts, was drawn slim.
Anonymous No.720168139 [Report] >>720168428
>>720167657
He wasn't but mostly because he wasn't accustomed to god's ki and whatever bullshit rules that has, instead Jiren was described multiple times as a mortal stronger than the gods and UI a form that not even the gods of destruction mastered, thus there is no logical way to say that UI goku isn't just straight up stronger than beerus.
Anonymous No.720168192 [Report]
>>720144946
I haven't watched it in many years but I remember distinctly thinking the fight between buff trunks and cell having like no jokes and attempts at cool one liners and realizing they were trying to be cool and not funny which was a huge turn off
Anonymous No.720168428 [Report]
>>720168139
Oh so we're fast forwarding to Jiren now.
Well, if you recall, Beerus sparred with multiple gods of destruction at the same time. And still only used a fraction of his power to keep them at bay. Beerus is in a special class of power that's beyond even his peers.
Also, UI is not what makes the angels stronger than the gods of destruction. UI is just a technique. Mastery of the technique does not give one greater power. It just makes them more slippery in fight. Jirens perceptions are so good, that he can kind of keep up with UI. But that doesn't make him stronger.
Anonymous No.720168440 [Report]
>>720167994
The only thing gohan was ever drawn as, was as a jobber.
Anonymous No.720168527 [Report] >>720168721
>>720167994
do you like humiliating yourself or something?
Anonymous No.720168721 [Report] >>720169209
>>720168527
Do you?
Anonymous No.720169016 [Report]
>one of the most epic Dragon Ball fights
>lasts 20 seconds
Anonymous No.720169209 [Report] >>720169373
>>720168721
Anonymous No.720169293 [Report]
Anonymous No.720169373 [Report] >>720169589 >>720170339
>>720169209
Anonymous No.720169589 [Report] >>720170246 >>720170339 >>720170402
>>720169373
he always drew characters undersized full clothing. he did the same thing to Future Trunks (who was also about 17-18 during the Androids saga, before going into the HTC). You'd know this if you weren't a casual picking a fight because you're bored.
Anonymous No.720170246 [Report] >>720170339 >>720170402 >>720170791
>>720169589
And you would know that those kinds of decisions are a visual language. He draws them slimmer when they're not serious, and then draws them buffer during fights or displays of power. It's not an accident, it's matching the visuals to the tone. High School Gohan is goofier, so he's drawn slimmer. When he wants to show off powers, then high school Gohan is drawn buffer. even in the image you just posted, Gohan is not especially buff. Just looks more cut, since he drew all the lines of the musculature.
When Saiyan man is drawn, his arms and legs are blacked in, so you can't see the cut. His arms and legs are not that buff.
Anonymous No.720170339 [Report]
>>720169373
>>720169589
>>720170246
What was Toriyama's plan for Gohan
Anonymous No.720170402 [Report]
>>720170246
>>720169589
X1 and 2, are drawn in a similar fashion. While not blacked in, the cut of their muscles are still disguised. However, the profile of the muscles are still visible. They're not noodle arms.
Anonymous No.720170791 [Report] >>720171971
>>720170246
yes, the intent is that in 'civilian attire' Gohan is meant to be blending in. if he was drawn with his natural bulk then it would be really obvious through his clothing because he'd be twice the size of his classmates. the entire joke is that they think he's some dork when in reality he's the strongest person on the planet at the time.

>he's just cut
his shoulders alone are a solid 4 inches wider. and no, Goten+Trunks are not even remotely as big. remember, this is what Goten looked like in End of Z when he's about 17. are you blind or something? A dude Buu Gohan's size would have a top 1% physique in real life, he's massive.
Anonymous No.720171065 [Report]
>>720144946
At least it didn't fall off as hard as Sgt. Frog abridged
Anonymous No.720171239 [Report] >>720171554 >>720171612
Serious question:
How the fuck did the jannies manage to kick off the dragon ball retards from /a/?
Their shitty schizo general had been going on for years, I'd have thought they'd have an holocaustic meltdown over getting banned
Anonymous No.720171327 [Report]
>>720136478 (OP)
>group is called The Chads of /a/
>can't post on /a/ again
What?
Anonymous No.720171471 [Report]
People really be spending years of their life arguing power levels over some dudes named pants, carrot, vegetable, and pickle in their freezer
Anonymous No.720171554 [Report]
>>720171239
The truth is the current crop of dbs posters are janny dicksuckers so they happily rolled over and took cock up their ass because it got posters they don't like banned as well
Anonymous No.720171612 [Report]
>>720171239
Most of the deranged posters have already left the board since there's no new Dragon Ball content to shitpost with.
Anonymous No.720171843 [Report]
>>720136478 (OP)
Nothing official calls it that what the fuck are you on
Anonymous No.720171971 [Report]
>>720170791
>Posting anime fanfic designs.
This is what they actually looked like at the end of the buu saga.