Thread 720173441

>No way to reduce damage
>Can double your health at most
>Every enemy is a potential death because of the above
>Trying to rush past enemies works for grounded enemies, anything flying will hunt you across the area
>Benches are sparse and the walkbacks are bullshit on both games
Hollow Knight is not a souls-like, it's a metroidvania, and as a metroidvania it's complete fucking dogshit.

Progressing in HK actively penalizes you because you get new areas and more places to go without any of the upgrades that make travelling easier, the endgame in a Metroid or Igavania game has you jumping around the map getting collectables and improving, on Hollow Knight it's a miserable trek rough places that have and will still kill you.

>JUST GIT GUT
Kill yourself

You are not entitled to beat a video game.

Feels good not boughteding it

>>720173441 (OP)
Just play the new shinobi if you want an easier game

skill issue

>>720173441 (OP)
i like the art but metroidvanias are kind of gay and riddled with backtracking and lazy level design. this is on gamepass but i don't even feel like downloading it. i got halfway through the first one before i was just too bored with it

>>720174116
Yes, yes I think I will.

All the vtubers that are streaming it are doing fine.

>>720173441 (OP)
All of those things are good. Get filtered bozo. LMAO! It must suck to be bad at games

Definitely both a soulslike and a metroidvania

okay i dropped hollow knight cuz it was boring, but this whole controversy makes me kinda want to play this

>>720173441 (OP)
kill yourself Johann

>>720173870
First post best post.

>>720173441 (OP)
>doesn't restart the whole game after dying
you are being babied sorry

>>720173870
A man well versed in the exquisite art of the trvth nvke.

>>720173441 (OP)
swallow knight shitsong

>>720174008
You don't buy anything anyway.

>>720173441 (OP)
I didn't thought this game could suck so much but it do

>>720176607
Its actually you that sucks and not the game

>>720173441 (OP)
>have to run back
Yes, it's tedious design and a valid complaint.

>Can't cheese anything with some OP item/spell
That's definitely not true.

>>720176672
that's an interesting game theory

>redditors are turning on the game
Good riddance

>>720175097
i'm a key cog in the economy

>>720176892
god imagine waiting this long for a game just for it to be ball busting cock torture

If you find Silksong a challenging game, then you may need to reconsider your approach to playing videogames, or stick to games like Roblox or Fortnite.

>>720173441 (OP)
>>No way to reduce damage
Awesome, game seems to be properly designed then.
>>Can double your health at most
Nevermind, that's reducing your damage taken by 50%. Weak.

>>720173441 (OP)
Eh, you're not wrong. It's a design choice, there's no laws against them choosing to do that, but it makes the latter half of the game very tiresome. I can only speak to the original Hollow Knight rather than Silksong, but it made the game a real slog. I ended up dropping the game right before the end, I broke the three seals, and before fighting the titular Hollow Knight, the game wanted me to go around collecting all the Essence across the map to get the better endings, and I didn't.. want to.

Honestly reminds me more of Ninja Gaiden on NES than any Metroid game I beat. Hornet clings to walls and throws ninja stars. I'm not sure exploration and this kind of difficulty work together. It feels more like a gauntlet than a collectathon or Igavania.

>>720173870
OP completely and utterly BTFO with 9 simple words.

The fight with the clockwork twins was pretty cool.

>>720173441 (OP)
>t. seething shitter
just accept you're dogshit and move on

>>720174321
kek this
OP is worse than vtrannies

>>720176892
How normal is this? From my experience back in the day when you couldn't beat a game you either quit or get a friend to finish it for you, but nobody ever cried about it, as a matter of fact when I was a kid I couldn't finish any megaman game, I still loved to play them.

>>720179893
When the devs started caving in and patching shit to be easier.

>>720173441 (OP)
>double your health at most

Most boss walkbacks are kind of shit though. I get that's part of the design to force you to learn how to deal with enemies more effectively. But even so, it just wastes time.

What really has me confused about the public response to silksong is that this is a hollowknight sequel. Did people not play this game, I didn’t find it an easy game the first time through. I remember specifically the watcher knight and greenlath mantis fights taking so many tries, I remember losing large amounts of money a couple of times. The overall sense that I was lost and unsafe was pervasive and I thought that was neat about it. I eventually beat it all, and have played through it a couple more times having a much easier time with it. I never beat the boss rush dlc or did a deathless run but had the impression that this game was made with options for people that liked to get really good at it and punish themselves.
Who the fuck are these people upset that silksong has difficulty? I haven’t run into anything harder than the first game yet. Have these autistics played through hollowknight so many times in anticipation that they have every inch of the game memorized and expect the same of something they havent played yet? STFU and get good.

>>720180673
A lot of people playing Silksong are bandwagoners who only cared about the meme of a highly anticipated game.

>>720173441 (OP)
>Hollow Knight it's a miserable trek rough places that have and will still kill you.
This is why Hollow Knight still remains good and engaging all the way to the end.

That being said
>no way to reduce damage
You gain the ability to dash through enemies like, 40-50% of the way through HK1. Silksong's default dash jump is already enough to avoid everyone.

>>720180673
>Who the fuck are these people upset that silksong has difficulty? I haven’t run into anything harder than the first game yet.
I think there are a lot of people who didn't finish Hollow Knight, and have mind-wiped themselves into thinking they are better than they really are. So a game that is the same difficulty (as far as I can tell so far) suddenly seems vastly more difficult. It's really just the exposition of casuals. They're casting themselves on their own swords of stupidity. Hate to be elitist, but most people are stupid, snd stupid people are loud and overconfident.

>>720180890
>engaging
>Just go through all the areas again hunting hidden shit bro
>But every enemy can still kill you so you better stop and fight
Also I can't shadow dash through spikes, the longer you play the more tedious it is, especially because without a fucking guide you have no idea where to go for the rest of the endings

>>720180673
>>720180945
Silksong is objectively harder than Hollow Knight, and you're delusional if you think otherwise.

>>720180945
You really can almost face tank a significant portion of Hollow Knight with different charm setups, while this is not possible in Silksong, you have to get good at dodging to not die. I'm on act 3 in Silksong btw.

>>720173441 (OP)
I just assume a lot of people fell for journo induced fomo of the game that "broke steam" and are now wondering why they suck so hard at it.

>>720181197
>But every enemy can still kill you so you better stop and fight
No you can just dodge them, especially since the cloak lets you phase through them
Sorry that you uhhhh wanted to not play the game I guess, but Hollow Knight still remains Hollow Knight from beginning to end while later Metroidvanias with cleanup just go from [Game] to [Walking Sim]

>>720173441 (OP)
>No way to reduce damage
Dont get hit.
>Can double your health at most
10 masks is plenty
>Every enemy is a potential death because of the above
Most enemies just walk back and forth witg predictable attacks.
>Trying to rush past enemies works for grounded enemies, anything flying will hunt you across the area
See above. Easy to avoid and fliers leave you alone if you go to a new room.
>Benches are sparse and the walkbacks are bullshit on both games
That one i will give you.

I'm in the endgame. do I have to keep hearing those bone chilling screams every now and then forever?

>>720181553

when is the last time a metroidvania or any difficult 2D platformer-like has been mainstream lol

they fell for the meme and realized this genre is niche for a reason. granted still loving the game

>>720173441 (OP)
Then just don't play it? You're not enjoying it after all so why bother
>but I bought
Should've pirate. If you played the first, you'll know what the 2nd one is going to be. I never played the first so I pirated this one and I can say I don't see the appeal of the game.

>>720181618
The shadow cloak is an optional upgrade, not everyone's going to get it at the same time or at all
Expanding the world but not making the knight more resilient is just miserable, good metroidvanias give you powerups to make previous areas easier, that's the reward for beating a boss or reaching the end of an area, the crests and eggs and king idols are a waste of time, everytime you get up the bench it's a gamble hoping the next dead end gives something useful and every extra room adds more stakes to that

>>720181846
Dread

>>720173441 (OP)
I could forgive all of that if you didn't take damage from simply touching the enemy.
What kind of complete retard thought of that?
Do they all have jeet-tier b.o. that rots your muscle with its mere presence or what?
It's so fucking retarded and I died more times to just touching the enemy then by their attacks which are often easy to dodge.
The only thing keeping this game alive is the hype and art. There are a billion better games out there, including the prequel.

>>720182024
>The shadow cloak is an optional upgrade

>benches are sparse
nigga they're everywhere, theres too many

>>720173441 (OP)
Those first three are valid, but that dumb nig nog tried to slip that last one in. Runbacks shouldn't be a thing, it's purely a tax on your time.

Is there even a fucking BENCH in Hunter's March?

>>720182320
Left of the big vertical room. Go left and turn off the trap.

>>720182282
Not enough in bilewater. fuck bilewater

>>720182236
For the basic ending at least, I got it after killing the hollow knight the first time.
>You just HAD to know to jump into the fuckhole at the end of the road to catch the white thingamajig and then go across the entire map for the other white thingamajig to combine it into the fuck-you-and-your-slots thingamajig and then go BACK and unlock the door to upgrade it into the free thingamajig so you could fight the same boss again but kill it with the dream needle and then fight the light and then NOT do that and then go to the junkyard cause you gotta kill he dreaming version of the secret boss and you need EIGHTEEN FUCKING HUNDRED ESSENCE for that so hope you like going back and forth on the map like a retard FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU
ah my bad sorry

>>720182359
Goddammit that vertical shitroom is the last place I died.

So why was she capturing half weavers? for lace?

>>720182427
>ah my bad sorry
That's alright. As long as you recognize that it's your bad for speeding through the game and missing out on like half of it because you were too afraid to explore it in full and too retarded to pay attention to the dialogue. We all make mistakes sometimes, little bro, but you admitting fault is your first step to gittin' gud.

>>720182419
I wouldn't be so upset, but there's also like 7 different fucking things that force you to go back there. Fuck that place.

>>720182282
>singular trap in march
>it's trapped
If I wasn't spoiled, I would've died to that shit and immediately uninstalled the game. I took me an hour thanks to the retarded map layout and all you're rewarded with is death? Fuck that.

>>720182619
And you dont get maggot protection until you don't need it anymore

>you can just blitz sister splinter and instakill the ads with silk spear
>look her up online
>nonstop seethe
lol she was easier than fourth chorus. she kept getting stunned

>>720182868
There's maggot protection?

>>720173870
We're done here, please escort OP out.

>>720183006
It's an equip that breaks after protecting you once then you have to go back to the bench

Personally I'm glad that instead of casualizing HK for the fanbase it got along the years, they went "fuck you here's some cock and ball torture". It feels more like a kaizo hack of HK than a sequel, and that's a good thing actually.

>>720182993
Fuck off. Nobody anywhere ever complained about Sister Splinter. She's a small and incredibly easy boss that barely interrupts your journey and comes out of nowhere. Nobody could have possibly been tripped up by her.

>>720180673
>watcher knight
Does 1 damage on hit
>mantis lords
Do 1 damage on hit
>practically every boss in silksong
Does 2 damage on hit
Yes, there are enemies in hollow knight that deal 2 damage but they are few and far between reserved for big enemies or explosions while it feels like practically every other enemy in silksong does 2. The game also doesn't start throwing 2 damage bosses at you until you have had time to get upgrades while in silksong I'm pretty sure you start running into 2 damage bosses immediately after the marrow. Benches are also more plentiful.

>>720173870
but you are entitled to not have your time wasted with garbage padding.
HK is a shit game and always has been.

Play Ori Wow
Play F.I.S.T
Emulate Metroid Dread
Emulate Prince of Persia the lost crown

all much better games with much better art, animations and much more talented devs.

>>720183104
I've seen a lot of complaints about her as well. There was a guy in one of these threads a few days ago having an hours long meltdown over fourth chorus of all things

>>720183543
Anon, Lost Crown got released on Steam already

>>720183543
>Ori
lol
>F.I.S.T.
LMAO now you're just baiting

>>720182993
never played.
but she has 'ads' so I already know shes a dogshit boss with bad design.

The witch crest could've been perfect if not for the silk regeneration being like the beast crest.

>>720183596
denuvo slop and Uplay slop.
emulate the malware free version.

>>720183645
what's the matter art and animations too smooth for you?
can't play a game unless it's 10 fps flash art 1 step removed from stick figure drawings?

>>720183543
>I dislike it so it's objectively bad
Literal autism.

>>720183784
padding is bad. it has no value it's not the content in the game you're trying to engage with.
it's purpose is purely to waste your time and pad out the play time.

Just use cheat engine or something

>>720180673
Hollow Knight's base game is significantly easier than Silksong's. Yes there's Godhome, Coliseum of Fools, Grimm Troupe, etc. but they're all optional stuff you only have to worry about at the end. Base game's hardest challenge on a first playthrough will probably be stuff like Watcher Knights, the Hornet fights, the Hollow/Knight/Radiance fights, etc., but even those shouldn't be too bad and a lot of them can be made easier by getting upgrades and exploring the map. I don't think I ever lost Geo in HK because runbacks were never that hard.

Silksong's skill floor is just higher, and while it allows for a lot of freedom on how you can fight, it's something you need to gain muscle memory for and normalfags are going to have trouble with it.

>>720183565
My only issue with Fourth Chorus is how wasted he is. Aside from Lace, he's THE boss everyone's been obsessed over in the trailers n' shit, but he gets used really early on. Same kinda goes for all the lava shit. Expected it to be the game's equivalent to Deepnest. Nope, it's like the second and third areas of the game.

Using cheats by accident i got all mask trophie. Only 0.1% players had it.

>>720183859
what's this meaning to convey
you're making life harder than it really is?

>>720183859
That doesn't make the game good and criticism unwarranted tho.
Just because a bunch of modders partially fixed DMC5 doesn't make the retarded game ruining decisions Itsuno made on DMC5 any less bad.

>>720184035
You think you're imprisoned because you refuse to even acknowledge your other options.

>>720173870
holy truth

>>720183859
I used cheat engine for Hollow Knight and I STILL got weary at all the obnoxious spike puzzles and the sheer amount of time it takes to traverse the map.

>>720183940
are you talking about that giant lava robot?
that boss is insanely easy. the balance in this game is so inconsistent it's fucked.

>>720173870
>uses cheat engine
im entitled :^)

>>720183878
I think a lot of it is the pacing of the upgrades. A lot of the things that you'd get earlier on in Hollow Knight are further and further out in Silksong. It takes just a bit longer for your first spell and the dash. It takes a while longer than HK to get the wall cling. It takes a LOT longer than HK to get the double jump. That being said, you're not hurting too much, you just gotta learn how to use Hornet's moveset in the meantime. It's like you said: skill floor is higher, so whereas you'd get a strong dash and double jump earlier on in HK, you instead are much more expected to do pogo-ing with Hornet, which is affected a lot by your crest.

That being said, I'm still kinda with the other guy. It's a sequel, so most people should have already played and beaten the first game, getting them gamer skills along the way. Even without the upgrades anymore, you should have a base level of awareness and such that comes from beating the first, and besides it does play into Hornet herself being slightly weakened. In any case, personally I compare it to how baffling it was for people to complain about the intro to Fallout 2: you've all already played Fallout 1, the temple of trials is a complete non-issue.

>>720173441 (OP)
>greentexting outside of 4chan
Fantastic way to filter out a garbage opinion.

>>720181846
HK sold 15 mil copies though

>>720173870
It's just that simple.

>>720173441 (OP)
>This game is too hard
Your gay

>>720184496
more like untitled XD

>>720180102
>it just wastes time
video games are by definition a waste of time

>>720184978
Might as well kill yourself

It seems that this game was made mainly to impress those highly autistic troons who exclusively played HK for 8 years.
So it seems this is normal to be uncomfortable with it if you aren't one of those. Now if you weren't, that would have been more concerning.
Also none of ESL browns screeching usual fromshit thought terminating cliches in response to any critique actually played this game, because they don't play video games in general due to being too busy with their brown things like the cUlTuRe wAr..

>>720173870
If i paid for i get to beat it or else your game gets refunded
Simple as
I dont have to do jumping jacks to see the end of a movie i bought
Why should i have to do extra shit just to see how your game ends.
So long as gamers continue to be incel babies thinking that slapping their keyboards really fast makes them cool video games will always be seen as childrens toys for kids and not an adult hobby

>>720185413
>the only reason to play a game is to get to the end
Childish mentality

>>720173441 (OP)
it's cute that HK players think their game is hard.
they think their good at Platformers.
none of them could 100% Tiny Thor
none of them could 100% Bzzzt
none of them could 100% Corn Kidz 64

they think they're good at Combat.
none of them could 100% Ninja Gaiden.
none of them could no damage every boss in DMC 3,4,5.
none of them could no damage every boss in KH2.
none of them could no damage every boss in other metroidvanias.

They think they're good because they can 'not complain' about their time being wasted on padding that is simply tedious and not challenging in the slightest.
eating shit is not a skill. It's so funny you think walking or grinding makes you skilled.

>>720173441 (OP)
>can't cheese
False.

>>720185725
>muh no damage
That's just pure autism nobody is impressed by no damage runs.

>>720185725
Can you logically explain why would anyone who isn't a transgender with a crippling case of low-functioning autism, or in the best case scenario a twitch clown, do any of that?

>>720185803
yes they are.
nobody is impressed by walking that's what they're not impressed by.

>>720173441 (OP)
Endgame Metroidvania is sequence breaking and beating the game with no upgrades or lv 1 or just basic weapons (basic punch), etc or no hit runs like OoE.

>>720185860
because the bosses are so well designed they're made for skilled players to beat without taking damage.
it's fun and it's shows you skill.
HK trannies have healing on a face button. that tells you everything you need to know about them.

>>720185860
You get medals in some games for these challenges.

Has anyone found the 4th pale oil? I'm in act 3

>>720176825
Quiet tranny

just got stuck on the fly chef boss, he just flew off the arena and the fight just stopped
is it because I'm using poison on him?

>>720185725
>in KH2
Ah, so you're THAT tranny

Best thing you can do when something is garbage is to ignore it.

A question, how the fuck do I get into the rest of The Slab? Is it through the Apostate Door and if so where is the key?

>>720186014
that's a known bug, it happened to me too

>>720185964
>it's fun and it's shows you skill
Lmao.
Repetition is only fun if you are born with autism. Autism is not a good thing, it's a mental deficiency that turns you into something less than a proper healthy human.
Mentally healthy people finish a game and play a different one instead.
Hopefully, in the future poor parents who were cursed with this will get the right to euthanize their autistic mutants before those turn into an another Chris-chan.

>>720176892
>>720176892
>>720173441 (OP)
>reddit hates game
>/v/ complains about its difficulty
>twitter fags crying
WELP, its settled, im getting the game next month.

>just hit Act 2
>only been playing in spurts, but I think that's been a good way to go about it
Got a feeling by the end of this a replay is gonna feel like a cinch.

>>720185725
KH2fags are the Meleefags of Kingdom Hearts and their opinions can be safely discarded.

lol at the blade patterns being random after moorwing screams so it's entirely RNG whether or not the fight is clearable. based.

>>720176892
>Die to boss
>Man that guy is super powerful
This isn't hard to grasp

>>720186229
>Repetition
who said anything about repetition? you learn each fight quickly, evolving your strategy.
these are not hollow knight bosses. they can be interrupted, they have much more complex AI states and variables.

repetition is grinding for rosaries, trecking back to get your shit, running the exact same B-line to the boss.
hitting an enemy that just flies towards you 5 times.
just cause silksong is repetitive doesn't mean other games are.

>>720180673
>Who the fuck are these people upset that silksong has difficulty
People are sick of the From Shit formula being shoved in every game now.
>Hrrrrrrrrrr lookie how hard our game is!!!
Every game now, it seems, has to have some goddamn unnecessary artificial difficulty and gatekeeping "dps checks" throughout. People are sick of it. Games are supposed to be fun and a form of escapism. Not every game has to be fucking Dark Souls. But that's not how modern shit devs see it.
This is why Nintendo has exploded to being the most popular game company in the world. They get it, others don't.
I'm not saying hard games shouldn't exist, it's fine to have a Lies of P or a Sekiro.. but not every goddamn that comes out needs to be like that

>>720186341
KH2 is a good action game.
the other games are not fit to be called action games and fall into the category of poorly designed RPG slop.

It annoys me that the currency are called "rosaries" and the actual rosaries are "rosary strings". Just call them "rosary beads".

>>720186546
>Meleefag AND an actionfag
What a winning combination. How does it feel that every Japanese game developer despises your existence and is working to ensure you don't fit in?

>>720173870
Guards, this man is based.

>>720186559
All three of the devs are Jews sooooooooo

>>720186701
It's not hard to use wikipedia and look up a term.

Never played HK, but I'm enjoying Silk Song. I'm halfway through Act 2.

I think I'm missing some weapon damage upgrades because some of these fodder enemies are taking 8+ hits to kill. That's kind of crazy.

>>720173441 (OP)
why do /v/ niggas defend bad game design
I'll never understand

>>720186834
hard =/= bad game design

>>720185860
>the most egregious low value padding ever
>lol git gud scrub
>game is fun I'm such a pro gamer

>games and achievements that requires actual skill
>uhh.. tranny.. autism, twitch clown

shitsong fags everyone.
they think defending padding makes them skilled.
when it comes to actual challenge in games suddenly that's too hard.
'git gud' faggots.

>>720186793
The game can sense your homosexual aura and hates you for it, so it's going to filter you out to keep you from touching it.

>>720173441 (OP)
So it needs to fit arbitrary genre-defining keypoints to be good now?

>>720187042
it's anti-metroidvania in its current state

>>720173441 (OP)
SOme faggot that got filtered.
Go get butt fucked by your fat ultra liberal boyfriend.

>>720187310
Be quiet you black as night Congosapien

>>720185964
>HK trannies have healing on a face button
You know what tangent but healing in combat should never be a thing and has gone way too far. Souls slop really has ruined games.
A boss fight is supposed to be a 1v1 test of your skill based on the mechanics you've learned so far.
Running away to chug potions is so lame and looks fucking stupid.

I miss when games just gave you enough HP and then never let you heal.
This souls shit has to stop, healing is lame.

>>720183859
if you're on console you can't...

>>720185413
Refund it, then. No one really cares.

>>720187346
Wooooweeee lookie here at this super badass elite PRO gamer guys!

>>720185413
Because games are ludo media
The whole point is interaction- if you don't want to interact, then maybe gaming isn't for you. Maybe movies would be more your speed?

>>720185413
A video game is not a movie. You play a video game, you merely watch a movie.
If you don't beat the videogame you don't get to see the ending.

the part of metroidvanias where you're overpowered and backtracking is just mindlessly trekking around with no risk of death fucking sucks actually
avoiding death because i'm cracked and have the shmovement>avoiding death because I literally just can't die due to The Numbers

>>720184078
This, Modders also "Fixed" Bethesda games, doesn't change the fact that at their base they're mediocre games bloated with bitch-work other problems, like slow walking sections, force "cinematic's" etc, as for cheat engine, it is also a bandage on a brain tumor solution, Silksong has fundamental issues that weren't present in OG HK
>you can only heal with full silk and can only heal 3 masks instead of being able to choose how much to heal
>throwing offensive abilities like bugs, pins etc. requires to farm resources after each use
>getting money is much more tedious than in OG
>Most enemies/bosses force you to wait/strike like a fucking robot instead of free-flow fighting the OG had
>you have less options when it comes to fighting
>both OG and this make to backtrack to boss rooms hard, which wastes time and sometimes makes you loose hp before getting back

>>720187449
it's not even really about that it's about the trashy artificial design to force healing.
Say you you found that the fair balanced amount of HP for your character was "100".
Well instead of giving the character 100 HP, what souls slop devs do to try and force healing is give you 50HP and force the rest of it into consumable rations.
it has no purpose or benefit. it just obfuscates the combat with garbage item use.

i'm agreeing with the twitter image and OP is a fag
simple as

>>720187569
That's what I like about this game. Bosses do 2-masks of damage per hit, most enemies do 1. This is like nigh-universal throughout the game, so everywhere is both as tough and as easy as everything else.

I haven't gotten very far but the boss fights are pretty easy. I think I've played too many games

When I first started suffering in this game, I thought it was too hard, but when I persevered, learned the game and rose above the suffering, I realised I was just too used to games being easier. This took about 20 hours of gameplay, though. Silksong is to Hollowknight what Sekiro is to Dark Souls: a superior product that has a steeper learning curve and a higher skill ceiling than its predecessor, but people were expecting more of the same.

I also thought the "git gud" cunts were being toxic at first. They were, but they were also right.

>>720173441 (OP)
I'm 40 and I almost 100% blindly
git gud

>>720173441 (OP)
>can't cheese with items/spells
Oh yes you can. I love my wheel. Every time I see a grounded boss it's wheel time.
Also, with that fucking burning bug tree thing, I said "fuck you" after a while and got the floating needle trap out. Once in the second phase, just waited for the big fire spam to end and started chucking the needles on top of it since it doesn't move and it's easy to dodge the single fireballs while laying the traps out.
And that's not even counting all the times I've had my ass saved by the triple knives. Great for those times they suddenly throw a big guy in a small hallway.

>>720187987
How do you check your completion percentage?

>>720173870
>what do you mean I can't waste $3000 to get my waifu and cheese the game?

>>720187569
>>720187815
This creates a problem where you don't actually feel that you made any progress in the game, since enemies and you are just as strong in the beginning as they are at the end of the game, even with the nail upgrades you reduce the number of necessary hits from 10 to 7/6(when it comes to big enemies) smaller ones still take 4 hits to die, you're right that simply backtracking and mindlessly moving around is bad game design, but what Silksong is doing is not better, IMO there simply must be better map design and the more you progress the easier/faster the movement must become, like give the player the ability to fast-travel without having to travel to FT location every time

>>720187569
why should previous areas you've already thoroughly explored carry a risk of death or waste your time in any way at all? when they're just a formality to get back to the content you're actually up to and currently trying to engage with?

the whole goddamn point of metroidvanias is
1.a steady difficultly curve on bosses and setpieces via the introduction of more mechanics to remember
2.but also being able to blaze through previously explored areas with you new abilities and learned mechanics thus opening up the world more so it's not a tedious boring slog to explore despite its size.

I don't think i've ever seen anyone miss the very core point of a metroidvania so badly.

>>720173870
Then again, I'm entitled to a negative review.

>>720173441 (OP)
Shitter filtered by SilKINO.
>mobs are fighting back???? HOW DARE
>>720173870
Based

>>720188006
Triple knives are great. Don't want to fuckin deal with something? KNIVES KNIVES KNIVES. I feel like I am missing out on some interactions with other toys though, I have unlocked so many and they are all such mediocre specific use-case items. Triple knives works in literally every situation, they're that good.

Can anyone red pill me on alternatives? The drill seemed pretty powerful, but a bitch to land, and I like the nades but there's only like 5 of them before you run out. Any actually good ones?

>>720188072
>This creates a problem where you don't actually feel that you made any progress in the game
No? When I kill a boss I either get a prize or I get a new area to explore. That's progress.

>>720187293
So it's a timeless kino akin to how you zoomtards pretended undertale was the greatest RPG of all time?

I just cheesed Lugoli by walking outside the arena after hitting the gong with a trap so I just killed him through the door. Fucker. Poison is ridiculously overpowered, he deserved it.

>>720188174
The flintstone sharpener sets Hornet's needle on fire, which increases its damage and can set enemies on fire too.

>>720188072
Using perks like focus mode on hingers crest and shit like the enhanced movement speed tools have helped create that feeling imo. That and supposedly you straight up get guns and shit, so.

>>720173441 (OP)
hard games can be fun
but this is just not fun

>>720188072
The progress is by you getting better similar to monster hunter where even if you have endgame tier armor the event bosses or Master rank monsters can still one or 2hko you.

>>720188182
>map becomes bigger
>thus even more tedious and sluggish to explore because you have not employed the metroidvania progression system properly.
You don't understand design at all, expanding map requires a player that evolves with it. That's how the genre works.

>>720173870
FPBP

>>720188403
My very fast shoes of running talisman says otherwise.

>>720188034
there's an item you find in game but you get it late

>>720185413
so then why the fuck are you playing a Souls game if you're not gonna enjoy the difficulty? go play something else, maybe roblox is more your speed

>>720173441 (OP)
dark souls really was damaging for the industry

>>720185413
Bro this debate has been settled for like 15 years. Git gud.

>>720185506
Yeah
I got to the end the game is over
Time to put it down and do grown up things instead of playing all day like a child

>>720185413
So every game should be beatable within 2 hours?

>>720188542
>>720188496
>>720187510
>>720187501
>>720187432
Babies crashing out when someone tells them that a difficult game is still a childs plaything
Grow up
If your game has a story then let players see it
If you dont have a story just put mindleas combat and big numbers for your 'difficulty'
You cant do both
Hard games dont have good stories
Good stories dont have hard games

>>720173441 (OP)
>can't cheese anything with some OP item/spell
dominant strategy will always exist, it doesn't have to be ridiculously powerful, just the most optimal out of every other choice, you'll still be doing it with even your average non-OP abilities and attacks, so in a way, you're cheesing the game with something that's technically the strongest in the game
>have to actually run back to the boss and not spawn right outside its door
What's the significance of having to run all the way back to the bossfight? Wasting the player's time does not encourage the player to play more.
How does your experience of a game improve if you have to take extra ~30-60 seconds to run towards a bossfight instead of just getting to trying again?
The run back is always the same, there are no variables, there is no added difficulty, it's just pure waste of time, this does not make you more "hardcore", it makes you a retard who doesn't value their time.

i beat path of pain and pantheon 5 in HK and im having a great time with silksong. i imagine anyone else that did those would have a similar chill experience.

>>720188308
Except that high tier G-Rank armor is still a massive boost that lets you feel noticeably more powerful though, even when fighting a hard end game monster. So this comparison doesn't really make sense because you just never feel more powerful at all in this shit.

>>720188663
>You cant do both
The fact that you can is causing you an aneurysm and it's absolutely hilarious. Please continue.

>>720180673
I only played HK back when it first came out, never touched any of the DLC. HK was pretty easy from what I remembered, the only time remember having trouble were the 2 beetle knight dudes and the real final boss and the platforming challenge at the end.

SS starts off way harder than 80% of what I remember the first game being like. Sounds like the devs fell for their own memes and thought SS needed to be the same tier of difficulty as the DLC instead of the base game.

>>720188651
If you think your story should take longer than 2 hours to tell you are wrong
Cut out the useless padding
You probably just scrolled tvtropes when writing anyway
Or god forbid you made a Psychological horror game
Which just means you read the first chapter of a psych 101 textbook
Because thats literally every psychological horror game
Fact

>>720173441 (OP)
git gud faggot

>>720173441 (OP)
No surprises here, HK has always been a terrible metroidvania and it ruined the whole genre with most of the metroidvanias that came after it trying to replicate the worst the genre has to offer

>>720188470
you need more than that.
look at the metroid games
-ways to break through things to open even faster paths
-upgrades that demolish enemies that slowed you down on the first visit
-vertical and horizontal mobility that lets you navigate slower sections super fast.
-end game when the map gets huge requires a powerful character to keep the pacing the same and that sense of growth and speed is the most satisfying thing about a metroidvania.

>>720188707
Go ahead name one and ill judge if it has a good story or is hard
Dumb baby

>>720184035
>what's this meaning to convey
you know how there are thousand of video games out there to have fun with but some people on /v/ deliberately spend time hating on shitty games? that's what it means

>>720185413
ok Karen

>>720188704
In Metroidvanias it's common to find ways to sequence break when you are good at the game either that or beat the games with no upgrades

>All the bosses anons have complained about I found readable and fun
I especially liked Last Judge, I dont see what the big issue about the run back was. Just got to citadel. Explore, get all the flavors of Gatorade, and use the evolved hunter crest with web weaver. Also you upgrade your needle for free in bellhaven. Game is great.

>>720173441 (OP)
>elden ring is for babies
>here is a hard game
>NOOOOOOOOOOOO WHY IS IT SO HAAAAARD
Fuck gamers. Worst community ever.

>>720188876
Ok nigger

>>720188072
>waah waah the game is not easier the more i play it waaah

>>720185413
You want to beat sp badly you can always cheat, you pussy

>>720185413
>I dont have to do jumping jacks to see the end of a movie i bought
yes because you bought a movie, not a video game? will you get mad at chess if you buy it and people beat you every time?

>>720188987
I could also shoot up an elementary school but then id be culturally appropriating gamers

WHY AM I FORCED TO PLAY THE GAME WTF???
THEY TOLD ME GAMING IS LIKE NETFLIX!!!!

>>720189009
I bought a product.
Not my fault its defective

>>720188663
>crashing out
a zoomer calling people babies will never not be funny

>>720181818
>10 masks is enough
instead of dying in 3 hits, you die in 5
wow, it really is like leveling Vit / Vigor but worse

>>720189121
>Why am i forced to get a job and take a shower. I thought trump killed woke so i could play video games all day and jerk it to bug porn

>>720188781
HK didn't have any of that either. It's like the devs seem to hate the idea of a "victory lap" upgrade or whatever, which is kinda odd because it's something present in like, 99% of all Metroidvanias

>>720189139
Sorry i was speaking down to your nigger subhuman iq
Didnt realize you were as smart as the average street shitting jeet

>>720185413
>So long as gamers continue to be incel babies thinking that slapping their keyboards really fast makes them cool video games will always be seen as childrens toys for kids and not an adult hobby
the real reason is because of little tantrum-throwing bitches like you, crying everywhere you go

so a friend of mine "beat the game" but didn't get to act 3
I'm still just exploring around
are there specific requirements to trigger act 3?

>>720184557
hey, I'll continue to send ">black qbs" in the group chat every week, FUCK OFF

>>720188663
you can absolutely fucking do both and that should be the point
look at Pathologic, that game is 90% story and it's still insanely hard because the difficulty is what gives the story its meaning, the difficulty and gameplay is what makes the story fucking good
it's the same thing here

>>720189213
excellent argument as expected of zoomers only able to spew memes. Go back to twitch retard your surrogate dad just went online

>>720189241
Didnt you fags throw a fit when games got popular because the normies would make studios realize that they dont have to market to gooner nazi chuds anymore

>>720189330
Go find your real dad
He left when he saw that his faggot son would only play video games

>>720189334
>Didnt you fags
you are replying to a single person, there is no plural you here you fucking retard.
>more buzzwords
kys

>>720189287
90% story
100% trash

>>720189384
he's busy fucking your mom since your own dad is too gay to do it

>>720189409
Im replying to all the child fuckers who make childrens toys their whole life and screech about how its a totally mature hobby and they arent wasting their lives

>>720186473
>but not every goddamn that comes out needs to be like that
Name one just from this year.

>>720189480
And your moms busy fucking dogs because shes a whore who birthed a retard faggot

>>720183543
>the lost crown
go back to africa

>>720189251
fleas need to move to their final location
all wishboard quests must be completed

because hk/silksong is ARTIFICIAL DIFFICULTY

nothing encapsulates the design philosophy of the slop series than making a compass not default, something you have to buy and will take up slots when equipped. this sort of jew padding infests team cherry's design philosophy. areas are needlessly massive and waste your time. save points are sprinkled intentionally to make you waste 15 minutes of your time. everything is just there to waste your time. it takes the metroidvania formula then stretches it out and paygates the shit out of everything.

meanwhile every other game just has this as a feature because they're not retards and respect the player.

>>720190082
>nigga needs a minimap with his location always on
LMAO

>>720188129
>blaze through previously explored areas with you new abilities and learned mechanics thus opening up the world more so it's not a tedious boring slog to explore despite its size.
this makes it tedious to explore because there's literally nothing to it. You've already seen it, you're just feeling around until you stumble into the place you haven't been before and you're basically not even playing the game.
If you REALLY suck at finding your way around or just do not improve it might be a problem, otherwise no, it's fine in silksong. you get more movement abilities, you get better at movement. if you get better at the game you can zip around fine.

>>720179426
Kinda felt bad for them in phase 3

>>720190226
>you should clean your bathroom with a toothbrush instead of a mop bro
>trust me it's more rewarding

(You) and your artificial difficulty. metroidvania equivalent of shrinkflation

>>720176892
Why did no one else discover the moorwing cheese but me? You can beat him without taking a single point of damage or moving around at all.

>>720176960
virgin post

>>720173441 (OP)
>No way to reduce damage
>Can double your health
isnt doubling your health the same as halving your damage, though?
you can also reduce damage to 0 by not getting hit.

>>720180673
There are only two kinds of Silksong players that suddenly hate it now
>I love this series so much, I never played it but watched a 4 minute speed run on YouTube once, Silksong is going to be epic
or
> I am severely autistic and decided that my entire life is going to revolve around HK and its lore and gameplay, I speedrun this game 12 hours a day then analyze every frame of my recordings to find new bugs to break the WR, oh also my pronouns are she/they now
Everyone else just wanted to play a video game and simply enjoyed it.

>>720173441 (OP)
>No way to reduce damage
MUH 2 DAMAGE ATTACKS
reminder
>HK had worse healing that only healed 1HP at a time, slowly, forced you to stand, and took all of your soul to heal just 2-3HP before soul upgrades let you have some spare soul, it took dozens of hits to generate the soul for 3HP
Silksong lets you heal 3HP much faster than it took in HK, and you can do it in the air, and you float while doing it, only takes 9 hits to charge at BASE, and -1 hits per silk recharge upgrade, one of which is super early on, so 8 hits actually.

>>720180673
Same.

>>720173441 (OP)
You can deduct the damage you take by dodging attacks
Doubling your health makes the game substantially more approachable
Rushing past enemies is effective if you're good at moving
The runbacks aren't good, yes
Probably the worst thing about the game is the rosary economy, it's fine but if you want to 100% the game you do need to grind a bit

>>720183784
>it doesn't bother me so it isn't bad
now that is real autism

>>720188308
Lmao, in MH if i go in LR with MS rank gear i will Demolish that content, in Silksong that is not the case, even when i finished the game the first area mobs where still a threat to me which is insane.
>>720188978
>no counter-arguments
i accept your concession

>i finished the game the first area mobs where still a threat to me which is insane.
LMAO

I was skeptical about the game at first, but so far I've beaten every boss just by learning the patterns and dodging their attacks.
Do they actually get more erratic later or are people just bad?

>>720173441 (OP)
How's your menstrual OP?

Castlevaniasissies and Metroidtroons getting filtered by a real video game that doesn't have a save point before every boss and a million hit points of damage player can tank

You love to see it

>>720190082
>areas are needlessly massive and waste your time
I bought the game because I like exploring and getting lost. That's what I liked about HK. You really feel like you are in a tale, it's not just a clear and linear path, you have to think.
Therefore that was no problem to me, in fact, I wished areas were way bigger.

>>720173441 (OP)
>No way to reduce damage
>Can double your health at most
>Every enemy is a potential death because of the above
it's not soulslop, you're not supposed to get hit

>>720191640
Stop attacking fromdrones, what did they even do to you to own them that hard?

>>720176892
What is with these dipshits that quit at first sign of difficulty. There are plenty of bosses in Silksong that took me hours and dozens of tries to defeat, and I eventually I did overcome them, because Silksong is a fucking videogame, and videogames are made to be beatable.

If you just quit because you lose to a boss too many times, it's not the game that defeated you, you defeated yourself by giving up.

>>720173441 (OP)
not a train station

I feel like the game is about as hard as the first game, just that it's balanced more around Hornet's higher mobility.
You take more damage, but you're also faster, so it's easier to dodge.

>>720180673
I think that Hollow Knight is arguably far easier in the beginning of the game than Silksong is. It's difficulty creeps up as the game progresses whereas Silksong starts out as far more challenging than early game hollow knight ever was.

>>720191828
This. If an enemy has a big attack coming and I can just walk away, I will.

>>720191620
>or are people just bad?
this one.
people were bitching about beastfly.
beat it in 3 tries.

these kiddies are whining shitters.

Are you excited to wait 7 more years for Zotesong now?

>>720173441 (OP)
Neither "Souls-like" or "metroidvania" are genres. They are design paradigms, both of which are in whole or in part fulfilled by Silksong.

>>720189160
Imagine if instead of putting points into VIT you had to explore the map and do quests
...wait.

>Demon's Souls came out 16 (sixteen) years ago and people are still bitching about any game that provides a modicum of challenge without giving you an easy way out
so much for the soulslike popularity, do shitters never get tired of crying? There are thousands upon thousands of piss easy games that you can beat with your eyes closed, just stick to those

>>720176892
what the fuck is buildcrafting?
does he mean creating diffrent builds by changing charms?
is this really a big deal for someß i just slap something on and forget about it

>>720185413
>Why should i have to do extra shit just to see how your game ends.
Because if you get to beat the game just for buying it, I'm not going to be buying it.
Simple as.

>>720183543
>Emulate Metroid Dread
I did and it's an awful metroidvania. Incredibly linear, constantly railroads you. Dropped that shit when it blocked my path back to explore for like the 5th time.
It could be a good sidescroller, but the combat's not that good. And the movement, while better than in HK, is worse than in Silksong.

>>720189160
6 if you have the mask equiped
Yeah that is a big difference.

>>720176892
>buy sequel that is just a worse 1st game
>have no fun
>drop it
>sunk cost fallacy faggots still try to pretend it aint a shit game
>BUT 7 YEARS OF HYPE
The 1st game wasnt anything to write home about either to me desu, but i dont know how they managed to make a worse game in 7 years

>>720192563
>And the movement, while better than in HK, is worse than in Silksong
metroid lets you keep speed after bouncing off a wall, which is something you can't do in silksong
also sliding I guess
but overall yeah, it is outclassed

>>720173441 (OP)
I never understood the design philosophy behind forcing players to run back to boss rooms, especially when they're in a game you're supposed to die in.
If you could learn something between the respawn and the boss room that would help you win the encounter, that'd be one thing. But it's never the case. It's always a sprint back to the room/area while ignoring everything along the way.
The shadows boss fight in bloodborne was particularly bad for this.

>>720192745
Write in 2 threads faggy fanboys act like its a crime. You deserve that your game sucks after 7 years. Enjoy your 2 contact damage, 90 degree pogo, damage sponges and exploding Rosario faggot.

>>720181384
Sure but Hollow Knight is not really a hard game.

Look at HK final boss, I think nobody has ever died on it. The only hard boss in original HK are all the DLC ones.

>>720192867
>nu uh, copy paste spamming retardation like a bot is normal and you deserve it and fugg you

>>720173870
fpbp

>>720192867
i don't even want to know how many other threads you're busy being an NPC in kek

>>720173870
Based. If you're not good enough to play the game, then play something else. Don't cry and try to make Team Cherry change the game for you. 90% of the players have no issue with the difficulty.

There are almost twice as much benches than HK, but Bilewater can suck a dick

>>720173870
I am entitled to everything because I'm me.

Is it a book's fault if its reader can't understand its words?
Is it a film's fault if its viewer can't follow the plot?
Is it a game's fault if its player can't beat it?

I don't have fun poking damage sponges with 2mm attack range.
The central core, the essence of the game is rotten and unfun.

>>720193103
It can't be my fault, at any rate. I'm a perfect blameless angel who can't be responsible for anything bad ever. I am, quite literally, the most important person ever.

>>720193043
>90% of the players have no issue with the difficulty
I mean they do, they just push through
steel soul was pretty easy in HK and you were only at risk in a couple encounters : this time steel soul sounds like a fucking impossible nightmare, and you can't even practice bosses

Everything else is fair game, but having to run back to a boss arena is retarded. Having to try again is already your punishment for losing to the boss, adding another punishment on top of that is arbitrary and, I'd argue, the only known case of artificially inflating difficulty. Souls is cancer purely by being the series that popularized that shit.

>>720193043
>you have to enjoy tedious and frustrating game design
Just like with DS2 i just stopped playing after beating like the 5th boss, which was sister splinter? Just a terrible game that is not enjoyable.
>>720192934
>has opinion that goes against the current
>NPC
ever did some self reflection?

>>720185413
>buy heavy dumbell
>wtf I can't lift this dumbell it's broken
That's what you sound like dumb nigger.

>>720193103
yes to all of these

>>720193297
Normally you would get to unlock a gate to make the runback super short, but here you get BILEWATER FUCK YOU BILEWATER

>>720193297
And yet even the people making the souls games stopped doing that shit by now.

>>720193302
You were filtered. Move on.

While I am loving the difficulty, run backs are annoying. I wouldn't mind just having checkpoints before bosses (not benches), I want to keep trying the bit I'm stuck on.

>>720173870
ACESSIBILITY IS NOT ENTITLEMENT
IT'S THE BARE MINIMUM HUMAN DECENCY

>>720193428
True, ER placed graces oftentimes right outside boss arenas. Probably why it is so pleasant to play compared to other From titles.

>>720173441 (OP)
No one ever liked this Soulslop trash. Muh no story, muh cryptic dialogue and weird NPCS, my go out there and do whatever for zero reason. Only "le deep" plebbitors like this trash. Same people who watch 3 hour long Youtube videos about Elden Shit lore.

Nine Sols is so much better than Shitsong. No runbacks, no backtracking, no farming, no cryptic shitty story and dialogue a la Soulsshit. Just a damn good game.

>>720173441 (OP)
modern /v/ filtered, utterly buckbroken and begging for journo mode

>how could the Hollow Knight sequel be a bigger version of the first game with the exact same core features? This is bullshit, I want my money back!
why are they like this?

>>720180673
A lot of people think sequels should be a clean slate whereas TC clearly thinks the game is not only a thematic sequel but also a mechanical one. You are rewarded for finishing the first one with acquired skill that carries into the next, much in the same way the narrative is more meaningful carrying forward the knowledge of the first game.

>>720173870
And you are not entitled to my monety Simon

Why are /v/edditors so shit at video games?

>>720193767
the most best selling indie in years can live without your $20

>>720193560
Goumang is a cute and I want to force her to come with me instead of mind raping her.

>>720191737
>hours and dozens of tries to defeat
You are built for slavery, i'm gonna cheat if the game doesn't respect my time

>>720187661
>Most enemies/bosses force you to wait/strike like a fucking robot instead of free-flow fighting the OG had
Nothing wrong with that, you are not entitled to be an unga bunga rushdown monkey

>>720193139
>poking damage sponges
increase your damage
>with 2mm attack range.
use a longer-reaching crest

>Shards are a good mechanic that add to the game because uh...
>um...

>>720193535
If you could spawn right outside of the boss room, you aren't playing through a level at that point. You're just retrying a fight against a practice dummy ad infinitum until it dies.

>>720194007
You don't like mindless grinding in a PLATFORMER?

>>720173870
No game is entitled my time. It has to earn it.

>>720194008
If you are at the boss, you already beat the preceding level and the boss is now the challenge you must overcome.

>>720180102
>have to manually refill it periodically like it's some 90's RPG
>takes up a valuable tool slot
>meanwhile in HK you just need to equip a charm

>>720182161
im fine with contact damage to punish bad positioning.
Any enemies dealing double contact damage when not doing a fat charge attack is cheap though

Some encounters are legit bullshit though, especially given how early in the game they are, like Beastfly doing 2 points of damage, but uh-oh, the moveset is actually simple as fuck, maybe it's not hardcore enough for the epic gamers? Let's spam the arena with smaller mobs, problem solved, get le gud! And also since when are obnoxious run-backs a good thing?

>>720180102
>have to walk back to that guy every time it runs out
Yeah I'm not using that

>>720187815
>most enemies do 1
factually wrong. The majority of melee enemies have some form of double tap damage. The scissor guys in greymoore, the worms, the roaches in sinners path, any sword wielding bug with a flurry attack etc etc

>>720173441 (OP)
>Didn't care for Hollow Knight since it was too slow and I found it a bit boring
>Silksong comes out and everyone is talking about the difficulty
>I like a challenge
I'm actually thinking of picking this up. Is it basically just a harder Hollow Knight? That might be a problem, but maybe the game having a bit of a pulse might fix my problem with the original.

>>720194190
Since Dark Souls, the game /v/iggers like to dickride so much

>>720194410
it is a better hollow knight, and early on you can unlock the running ability so you don't have to walk slowly

>>720194410
It's exactly like Hollow Knight except more linear + everything kills you twice as fast + you can only heal when your meter is completely full + every single fucking checkpoint costs money and 50% of the enemies drop none

>>720194520
>It's exactly like Hollow Knight
Hornet has completely different movement. So, no it's not.

>>720194520
more linear is good. backtracking is gay and pointless.
the next one should be laid out like a mega man game.

>>720194410
I found HK very dull in the beginning and almost dropped it. Silksong goes balls deep from almost the very beginning

>>720179893
i couldnt finish the nes adventures of dizzy on emulator with save states and i didnt cry either. fucking manchilren i swear

>>720194520
>more linear
only if you are poor

>>720185413
>Why should i have to do extra shit just to see how your game ends.
You don't. You can still watch the end on youtube. What's your point?
Normal people play games for the experience. You had your fun for a few hours and reaching a hard part of a game doesn't reset the value you got previously. If you got stuck somewhere but want to see the end, you can just look up someone not mentally handicapped do it. Or cheat/find a guide. Noone's going to judge how you play your vidya.

cant wait for the hype to die down and for both gamer dads/sweatlords to leave desu

>>720195013
I will judge him though.

>>720195027
>tfw gamerdad now
>find Silksong to be perfectly balanced and fun
I grew up on Megaman this shit is nothing.

>>720195128
>classic megaman
i threw up. i found x/zero/zx to be way more enjoyable. hate the slide so much

I :transheart: combat that's just rote memorization.

>>720193103
>Is it a book's fault if its reader can't understand its words?
If it's deliberately choosing obscure or archaic words needlessly then it's definitely the author's fault if it fails to achieve mainstream success. A good author might pepper their work with obscure words but provide enough context for the unfamiliar to still follow along. A terrible author would just fal'cie the l'cie's focus all up in the sanctum's business on the pulse vestige.

>Is it a film's fault if its viewer can't follow the plot?
Similarly if following the plot requires 3 goes at it, google and a notepad, you probably fucked up.

>Is it a game's fault if its player can't beat it?
If the majority of the players are having a problem and the thing they are having a problem with does not enhance the experience, then yes, the game has a fault and should be fixed or at least apologised for. If instead it's a minority of entitled shitters just annoyed they can't get their easy platinum, they likely shouldn't care.
Silksong sounds like it's a little from column A and a little from Column B. It contains stuff that is tedious and irritating rather than challenging. And I've seen more than a few instances of RNG fucking over players who then get called scrubs by people who just lucked their way through as if they are gods at the game. That's typically bad game design that. RNG should add flavor, not be the difference between piss easy victory and impossible loss.

I feel like you guys would find a way to defend Markoth.

>>720173441 (OP)
>have to actually run back to the boss
that one is kinda bullshit. stop wasting my time, a more annoying game doesn't mean it's a harder game.

>>720195392
While the game has its rough edges, can you tell me some examples of where RNG explicitly fucks you in this game?

>>720194190
Can't you just deal with all the adds with tools and silk spear? Those helped a lot with Splinter Sister.

>>720195554
nta but you can easily get checkmated (unavoidable damage) in fights with too many adds (bonus points if they're extremely bulky (both savage beastfly fights if you choose to do them early) or lost lace. i'm currently on it and the shadow tendril attack can easily block your escape and force you to take damage there's definitely a lot of bullshit in this game but picrel that >>720195368 is making fun of will just tell you to git gud

>>720193994
There aren't any meaningful ways to increase damage or range in the first multiple hours of the game.

>>720195678
They do fuckall damage. One of my main gripes with the game is everybody is such a damage sponge, even expensive tools don't clear fodder enemies

>>720173870
I kneel.
An experience that anyone can 'enjoy' and slip and slide through without any sort of challenge to the mind is meaningless, both within art and gaming.

>>720173441 (OP)
>Every enemy is a potential death
Yes motherfucker, that's the definition of an enemy. Old school castlevanias get progressively boring as shit because you can eventually steamroll everything in previous areas eithout any skill whatsoever.

>>720173441 (OP)
>words words words
Just git gud

>>720196013
Sandcarvers?
What about contact damage ?

I need to check e6 soon
there must be so much new hornet porn

>>720194008
Rarely has a run back been difficult enough to be worth repeating. It's just a waste of time. Ultimately you learn the fastest way to path through so you can keep trying the boss ad infinitum. Usually I've long since mastered the run back before I beat the boss.

>>720183543
>here are all my solutions instead of me wasting my time on this game
ok so go fucking do that then nigger

>>720196013
>- Slight difficulty reduction in early game bosses Moorwing and Sister Splinter.
You didn't beat the game

>>720197058
surprising they didn't touch the cheese tactic

>>720173441 (OP)
Just git gud.

Yeah, metroidvanias are PROGRESSION platformers, and even in the original hollow knight there was a lack of progression part. Silk song is of all the games closer to Sekiro, except weak and somehow has LESS upgrades than Wolf had

>>720188146
Correct. You did it. You're more grown-up than 99% of whiners on /v/

>>720195738
>spoiler
fuck should've not read that one, and here i was thinking i was just about done with the game.
But yeah, adds are aids can't argue with that. I at least found the boomerang with poison to do quick work of them

>>720192662
i torrented silksong and never played the original game, and still find SS a fun challenge
personally im more miffed at the people who feel the need to have the compas on at all time
do you just not have the ability to orient yourself in space on a map

>>720197351
>lack of progression part
>crest
>tools
>skills
>Needle upgrade
>tool bag / damage upgrade
>maps
What the fuck do you want more?

>>720180673
I haven't played the original since it first came out until replaying it this weekend, and frankly it's so shockingly easy that I think you should probably get an examination to see if you have an undiagnosed cognitive impairment.

>>720196013
Sister Splinter was already fucking easy

>>720186473
>game based on Fromslop is like Fromslop
One would think, then, that that is the target audience. Seems foolish to be upset that a duck is a duck.

>>720173441 (OP)
the game punishes you for rushing it, if you're not a speedrunner take your time or you will get dicked
silksong is made for people who already beat hollowknight and want the same universe but new content, play hollow knight first before picking it up or bash your head against a wall as a new by to the "genre" until you git gud

>>720180945
>there is a lot of people who didn't finish hollow knight
The gears section in SilkSong is harder than White Palace. Or at least buggier. does more damage, and you don't have bee charm. Radiance isn't harder than many of act 2 bosses. Only if we count DLC like nightmare king and godmaster stuff - but imo that's not part of the game in the same way steel soul mode isn't

The grand irony is that I actually like the early game but it starts to really rot deep into act 2. Some of the insulting bits that stand out to me are
>The necessity to grind to change gameplay when the game doesn't naturally just let you earn it enough passively with good gameplay - there's simply no way even .1% of the playerbase of this game can sit around on 2k rosaries unlost and unspent by the time they hit a new vendor
>Why are down attacks for Beast and the base form less height than the regular apex of your jump? It feels so unnecessary in platforming sections where your boss walk will be so long you're stuck with one playstyle 99% of the time because your run back will be so much worse if you try experimenting
>I don't know if people have done the math yet but it honestly does feel like 70% of this game is add spam fights - was the original HW this bad?
>Maybe shit hitboxes but it can be played around easily
That's about all I can really think of

I only finished this game because I was stubborn. Too much annoying (not difficult, ANNOYING) shit in this game for me to like. Probably not going to replay it again.
My final rating is gladipiratedit/10

>>720196013
>>720197058
I fucking knew it, god fucking damn it. I will have to rush this shit before they keep nerfing bosses. I hate you shitters so much.

>>720197562
>crests
Reaper and wanderer are nerfs to everything but pogo, witch is extremely situational, the rest are kinda trash.
>tools
On a limited resource and don't restore silk
>skills
Once again waste of silk
>Needle upgrade
From 4 hits on basic guy to 3, too weak with too high cost
>tool bag
That's honestly the fucking funniest joke the game does. It doesn't give you any reasons to use tools at all but showers you with upgrades to them specifically. If all of those were spool and spool heart upgrades the game would be infinitely better.

>>720174116
>Just play the new shinobi if you want a better game
Fixed your post.

>>720197505
The maps have no detail

>>720198356
Exactly, half the time map outright lies. Wish all metroidvanias either had a detailed map like Axiom Verge 2 or shown room completion like Ender Lilies

>>720173441 (OP)
>No way to reduce damage
>Can double your health at most

if you double your health that means you are halving the damage bosses do

>>720192867
>get exposed
>OH NO NO NO
many such cased desu

>>720198628
>if you double your health it means you are halving the damage

No, because health still costs exectly the same amount of resources to restore

>>720173441 (OP)
When you go back to those places it should be easier because you've actually played the game and practiced the mechanics

>>720198356
can you not orient yourself by room shape?
i can open the map on a random spot, walk around a bit and guesstimate pretty well that
>oh this wall is here, so im most probably in this room, i have to go here

>>720198996
Except Bilewater fuck that runback

>>720195050
Unless he cheats online and ruins fun for others, you don't have to be so petty about it

>>720198996
no amount of practice would make it easy enough without actual numerical advancement of player character. After a long play session it might actually be harder to backtrack than initial pass cause still decay from exhaustion kicks in.

>>720173441 (OP)
Ok I understand my skill is less than ideal but if designed an extremley long gauntlet of enemies to end with a crapshoot fight?

>>720199061
wrong.

>Ads

SILKSTORM fuck YOU !

>>720199120
you can cheese the fight with ascendant grip in last phase with two bosses they only do jump attacks then you can hit them slowly to death

Just finished the good/best? ending without looking anything up. Time to go for 100%. Absolutely wonderful game. Shitters, stay filtered. A toast to the entire facade of the games hype industry of tourists and shitty journalists getting filtered the fuck out.

>>720199042
I don't get the fuss about it. Even it's farther that the last judge's runback, comparatively you (almost) got all traversal tools, making it a breeze. And there are a lot of big useless fyling enemies on the way to refill your silk.

When I read all the anons CRYING about this boss, I thought the gauntlet would be way longer, but it's what? 4 waves of two enemies? The boss itself doesn't even have a lot of moves.
Took me two tries, and only because I was jumping when the boss appeared (he stunned me in the air, I fell into the water).

I guess people haven't found Karak or fought the unraveled yet, where it's not difficult but it's annoying because you have to wait on the game.

>>720199120
Why didn't you just get out of the way of those giant slow attacks?
It looks really easy to dodge in this game.

>>720199023
Why would you do that, when you can just eliminate the guesswork entirely?

>>720199431
Wait, you did Bilewater with double jump? That's easy

>>720199437
Cause they put you through a long gauntlet first and by that point I was getting sloppy

>>720199410
>sgdq poster
Tranny

>>720199585
>I played bad
and are you trying to say that's the game's fault?

rosaries have defeated me. i just do not care enough to grind these things out for the vendors in each area. i kneel, shitsong.

>>720199549
Are you retarded? You literally can't progress the area without it.

>>720176892
reading reddit I think theres a bit of a culture war right now between fags who think the game is too hard, and based chuds that think people should just get good.

>>720177270
kek

>>720176892
Who cares?
If you can't beat the game and it's making you cry, install cheats.

>>720199549
>he didn't play the game

>>720173870
OP shitter shattered

>>720180673
If you dont think Silksong is harder and way more punishing than HK you are clinically retarded. >>720190904
Hard cope kek

>>720196013
7 years and no one fucking realized the rosary economy is completely fucked for act 1 lmao what a bunch of retards.

>>720199487
so i can put the magnet and extra shards on

>>720186129
The key is in Bilewater, because of course it is.

>>720185393
this

>>720188545
>grown up things
like what old man

>>720200896
i fucking knew it even before i clicked the spoiler, it had to be there to be ass design enough. Should i bang by head more against it or should i explore different places to get more stuff?

There, finally delivered that fucking Courier's Rasher. Fuck me there was so much stupid shit in Sinner's Road and the Citadel blocking my way.

>>720176892
Weak bitches should quit.

>>720180673
The idiots crying loudest in pain are the fuckers who were just around for the hype train ride and were never really all that into the original.

It’s a fine sequel. We dodged a shitload of bullets to get this decent a Hollow Knight sequel.

Anyone who thinks it’s too hard just has weaker fuckin DNA. Foxes whining about grapes. Children who are used to participation trophies for showing up.

>>720176892
Stupid bitch. Video games aren't for women, go back to your cozy games

>>720201420
>>720201881
the game was made by and for weak bitches

>>720201607
It's true. I thought original was 8/10 game and sequel surely would improve on all the weaker aspects, not double down and cut the strong parts out

>>720193921
>enjoy challenge, even in spare time
>U-UR A SLAVE
Woman, Redditor, or both?

Is this game actually around 50 hours long? And are those 50 hours filled with meaningful content, or is it mostly repetitive grinding?

>>720173441 (OP)
The Force is not with you.

Never shall you rise.

Gaming is not for you.

>>720173441 (OP)
I have seen nothing of Silksong and don’t care to, but I will weigh in and say that I agree with your assessment and have never really cared about Hollow Knight. I keep meaning to go back and play through it all the way but it is a really fucking boring game. I played it for like 2 or 3 hours a few times and it just never picked up, it stayed a slow Metroidvania with little change in gameplay. I have no idea why it is so well regarded and I’m not meme’ing at all, it genuinely plays like a 6/10 game. Is it just the visuals and the story?

>there's another fucking delivery quest in this game
>it's part of unlocking a weapon upgrade

>>720183543
>Play F.I.S.T
>much better games with much better art, animations and much more talented devs.
No it isn't, lol. It is complete dogshit. The demo is super polished but once you are outside of that in the rest of the game it becomes complete garbage with every single mob enemy becoming worse damage sponges than anything in this game and you can't even parkour past them like in Silksong. It is legit the most boring MV I have ever played and I own both Grime and Ghost Song.

>>720173441 (OP)
>can't cheese anything with some OP item/spell
lol
lmao even

>>720173441 (OP)
>"muh games are art, muh emotional experience"
Insufferable crowd. Go back.

>>720184496
You cheated not only the game, but yourself. You didn't grow. You didn't improve. You took a shortcut and gained nothing. You experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained. It's sad that you don't know the difference.

>>720191737
Everyone has a limited lifespan, you seem to be ok using it to memorize a videogame boss's attack pattern, but most people aim to have richer lives than that.

>>720205537
>can't spend even a couple minutes to memorize a basic pattern
What the fuck are you, a mayfly?

>>720204951
>You experienced a hollow victory.
Heh

>>720205648
Obviously people quit after more than a few minutes of tries.
>But I can beat anything in a couple of tries!
Good for you, unfortunately you provide no evidence of this so we'll have to take your word for it.
Regardless, wasting hours on a single videogame boss is not a way most people want to spend their limited time with.

>>720205892
If you find the time you spent playing video games as wasteful, why are you even here? You obviously don't play video games.

>le runbacks... ARE ACTUALLY GOOD!
no. fuck you. nito, seathe executioner's chariot, the two fucking overgrown cats in frigid outskirts can all go suck my dick. ds3 did the right thing and chemo'd this cancer going forward

>>720173441 (OP)
Hollow Knight and Silksong are absolutely Soulslikes, and they excel at being soulslikes. Every normgroid and their mother likes soulslop so it’s no surprise that Hollow Knight and its sequel are successful, but yeah, as a metroidvania it’s easily one of the worst out there. Not even mid at best. And it’s overrated as fuck, just like every other rollsslop game.

Wrong wrong wrong

You can powerfarm beads fast as fuck, the bench above bone bottom or the area by the first shrine. You can earn thousands of beads (and shards) in an hour. Then just ignore all enemies since they are pointless.

You can get the best crest and the best charms. Most are pretty useless but the good ones do make a big difference.

You can look up cheese methods or ignore optional shit to later. Honestly just knowing
>a) which enemies to burst with tools or silk abilities
and
b) when to ignore a section/come back later
makes all the difference.

Or if you pansy fucking faggot, you can install the multitude of mods that make the game a pisseasy joke like limp-wristed PC """Master Race""" fags are doing.

Overall the game is about as hard as Hollow Knight, definitely not as tough as Sekiro or some of the memeshit in Elden Ring.

>>720176929
Nope. You are a discarded chunk of metal. Irrelevant to the economy.
Currently, ESG's politic is the actual "key" cogs making the whole videogame's economy works.

"Voting with your wallet" doesn't work because the voting power of investment firms is -several order of magnitude- bigger than the voting power of your average consumer.

>>720188693
I beat pantheon 5 and thought it was a miserable experience and I think Silksong is pretty good but not great

>>720206626
>the best way to play this game is just to farm a certain spot and then ignore every other enemy
Wow sounds like a shit game, especially a Metroidvania game

>>720207474
I wish it didn't be like it be but it do.

The game did an extremely poor job making you care about exploration. And the world design certainly doesn't make you care, zones all just kinda mesh together in a forgettable blob.

Still yet to see a compelling defense for the compass and map mechanic being so obtuse and annoying. No it doesn't make the game harder, no it's not good just because it's different

>cant cheese anything with op item
haha

>>720202043
Suddenly I'm OK with Visa giving this site a dick up the ass.

>>720207628
One way to fuck over the game is to use save and quit as homeward bone. It allows you to save time, saves you from death, and autofills your explored map areas. It's much faster than backtracking and I find it much easier to explore when I can see the various routes on the map to make sure I checked everything

>>720207827
Oh I've been abusing the ever loving shit out of save warping in this game. Saves so much time on backtracking.
Never felt the urge to do this in other metroidvanias, wonder why that is

>>720180673
Silksong started off as a harder DLC than Godhome, they fucked up the difficulty curve when turning it into a seperate game.

>>720207827
>>720207913

you didnt beat it

>>720183830
Playing games is wasting time retard, what "padding" are you even talking about? Do you even know what padding is?

>>720204821
>damage sponges
it isn't hollow knigth where you just spam shallow attacks. the enemies aren't damage sponges because the game has a DMC combo system.

>>720173441 (OP)
>Progressing in HK actively penalizes you because you get new areas and more places to go without any of the upgrades that make travelling easier
That doesn't make any sense.
Have you ever played a metroidvania?

The $20 pricetag at release was a mistake, it lured way too much tourist that were not the target audience and now reviewbomb the game and ask for nerfs even though they will never finish it.

>>720183543
Hey look! Someone who has absolute shit taste in video games!
>just emulate Metroid Dread and Lost Crown because of m-m-malware! Not because they're too shitty to actually justify buying!
Ori Wow is shit you dumb nigger and F.I.S.T is even worse. Also learn what the fuck padding means you failed fucking shill.

>>720208223
nta but I liked Dread more than I'm liking Silksong. You should buy it

>>720208223
lol Shit Song faggot is mad.
all those games are much higher quality that your poorly animated flash shit.

>>720173441 (OP)
heres my hot take: souls-like and metroidvania are the fucking same

>>720208818
You're retarded

I'm getting filtered by The Mist. Triggering af area

>>720208131
It balances out with the niggers playing 4 seconds and leaving a KINO review

>>720173441 (OP)
Git gud, stupid nigger

>>720206626
Sekiro isn't difficult in the slightest.

>>720189436
holy fucking melty KEK

>>720185725
>no damage and other meme runs
Sorry, I am not a mentally ill tranny

>le padding
Whatever you consider “padding” is completely subjective you know that right

lmao counting the hits each boss takes is a mistake. holy shit these things are damage sponges

>>720185725
>100% Ninja Gaiden
What kind of zoomerbabble is this? '100%' an NES game?

Fuck off idiot

It’s difficult yes, but I just beat Act 1 and it hasn’t been that bad yet. The flying enemies are literal shitheads though.

>>720185413
Then watch a movie instead if you can't handle games. Fucking retard.

>>720201070
Having a job
Being a contributing member of society
Taking care of a family
Meanwhile gamers
Dont have jobs
Waste their lives playing games
Have their family take care of them instead

>>720190082
I actually love going no compass and having to actually figure out where I am based on landmarks, like how a real hiking map works. So no, I'm glad they made it an option but not default.

>>720191985
Beastfly was tough for me, but it's mostly because I wasn't utilizing my options effectively. All you really need to do is get the fly to slam down on the adds he summons so that they get instakilled. Then the fight is a really predictable series of waiting for two types of attacks to proc so you can do a single attack on it. That plus deciding to actually use my boomerang really helped kill it quickly.

>>720185725
Truth Nuke

>>720211632
>we must be better men and pay taxes so goldberg can give the money to brown people and the brown people can rape and kill my family

>>720211724
beastfly is just an endurance test. can you tolerate seventy hits on a boss that does two attacks

>>720173441 (OP)
honestly don't understand the hype, hollow knight seemed extremely shallow with most of the game being memorizing boss patterns, most of the time being a boring fight because once it's solved, you just need to mechanically do it

metroidvania's have a lot of running around only for you to get rocked at a boss, so you can run back again, to memorize it, and then mechanically play out the pattern with the boss

it's not very satisfying

>>720193043
quite literally only people who are gay youtuber masochists say they "like" the game, otherwise it's just retards who enjoy getting their dick punched and it doesn't matter what game does it

>>720205956
Can you not understand the concept of progress? Do you think playing a linear 9 hour game and grinding for 9 hours in a gatcha are the same activity? Playing 20 hours of a game while making steady progress is fun, spending 3 of those 20 hours on the same 10 meters stretch, is not (for some people)

>>720173870
Trvth nvke

>>720212118
>Goes nuclear when I midnor use chest engine to play however I want.

>>720208478
If you hop slash you get iframes. Just use wanderer and jump slash downward on the left enemy. Worst case scenario you take 1 mask of damage, best case everything is cleared by the pound and you get to fight the boss on one life to earn another three from silk generation.

>>720186473
I'm sick of how every action game has a stamina bar unless it's a 2D beat'em up, or some kind of parry that you're basically forced to use for any real damage

>>720208439
same, dread is a much better "metroidvania", only fromtrannies will prefer silksong because it's mostly about the autistic boss fights and the masturbation about being le hardcoer gaymer

for the record I still like silksong but I don't think I'll bother with act 3, I saw some of the stuff here and it sounds like neverending AIDS

>>720211632
Why are you taking time away from raising your kids to play games you don't like?
Aren't you a good father?

Motherfuckers probably grinded SOTN and beat the actual hard fights by pure stat checks.

>>720207628
I don't get the trend of gating the most basic gameplay mechanics. It's Starfield level shit game design where basic mechanics were locked under skills

>>720185413
Why would you want to lower a high quality form of media, gaming, to the level of a shitty one, film?
There is not a single film out there that is as good of an experience as a game like Silksong, and there never will be. Because listening to an opinionated lecture that you can't respond to for 2 hours will always suck. Watching an action scene that you can't be a part of will always suck. Seeing someone else do adventure stuff without having a role in it will always suck.

Games are better than films, and until films actually figure out how to become more like games, they'll never be interesting as an art form.

>>720211820
Get a real job
Buy guns
Get ready for when schlomoberg finally pushes it too far
Society collapses
Now you have to kill all the hordes of monsters (blacks, browns and gays)

>>720209705
Name 10 games you've beat that are harder

oh boy it's another tram station with no enemies that drop rosaries for 5 screens pogchamp chat

>>720173441 (OP)
>Have to actually run back to the boss and not spawn right outside its door
I don't know how soulsgames do things, but for metroidvanias (and most adventure or RPG games for that matter), isn't it usually just a common courtesy to put a save point near a boss or challenge segment as a warning and final opportunity to gear up and heal for a big fight?

>>720186473
>dark souls was the first hard platformer
Are you retarded?

>>720212867
Holy shit your opinion is so fat i can smell that you havent taken a shower in weeks through the internet. Its a game. Not art. You cant lower the medium below what it is, which is the same thing as playing cards or monopoly, a toy.

>>720192471
You sound the like type who would be okay with them selling an unfinished game and then you pay more just to get drip fed content forever

>>720213334
Because I want my games to be hard, I also want my games to be unfinished service game shitholes?
What is this retarded autism?

>>720173870
holy fippy bippy

>>720173441 (OP)
>have to actually run back to the boss
only valid complaint

>>720213408
No, if you can't beat the game, it's hard, right? That's what he is getting at, you aren't picking up what he's putting down.

>>720213741
Correct, that was too monumentally retarded for me to seriously consider as a possibility.
But I guess it's all there is

>>720173870
OP is a fag and got btfo immediately.

>>720185413
>Why should I have to do extra shit just to see how your game ends.
Just watch it on youtube then you gigantic pussy

how many of the people posting here have even finished the game? what ending? I've done the basic one and I'm satisfied, the second to last boss was a giant pain and apparently the true last boss is just the same enemy again but with a shit ton of environmental hazards added and various spam so I think I'm good

>>720173441 (OP)
Bait or bad at videogames? When you type this stuff do you read it? Nothing is free dipshit, get good or quit playing you washed up 999 ms geriatric holyyy!