Thread 720185269

Was Cyberpunk political all along?

>>720185269 (OP)
Cyberpunk is an inherently political genre

>>720185492
More like inherently communist.

>>720185269 (OP)
Yeah the politics in the universe of Cyberpunk 2020 created by Mike Pondsmith

>>720185269 (OP)
There are political themes and ideas mentioned and explored in the game.

>>720187040
And did the idea of reigning in corporations a bit resonate with you?

>>720185269 (OP)
Yes.
But Johnny isn't positioned as having the ontological correct views or opinions. He's just another person in NC doing what he believes in.
Johnny is an anarchist. The whole quote gives better context.
>I saw corps strip farmers of water ... and eventually of land. Saw them transform Night City into a machine fueled by people's crushed spirits, broken dreams and emptied pockets. Corps've long controlled our lives, taken lots... and now they're after our souls! V, I've declared war not because capitalism's a thorn in my side or outta nostalgia for an America gone by. This war's a people's war against a system that's spiralled outta our control. It's a war against the fuckin' forces of entropy, understand? Do whatever it takes to stop 'em, defeat 'em, gut 'em. If I gotta kill, I'll kill. If I need your body, I'll fuckin' take it! Fuckin' hell ... You still don't see it. But you will one day.

>>720187374
Johnny is right about almost everything. I don't know how one can play the game, have all the stupid decisions V makes forced on them as the player with Johnny there saying 'I told you so' constantly. Then come up with some navel gazing, fart huffing contrary interpretation based on what I can only guess is some bolshevik doublethink filter placed in their heads by Professor Borgstein.

>>720185269 (OP)
>listen V, it's not about capitalism or the state or democracy or something... it's about the damn evil corporation that drives wealthy farmers who are a burden to the agriculture industry out of their business through competition on the market. that's why i had to kill dozens of thousands of innocent people with a nuclear bomb
So. Political. And so right. Le corporations... are le bad.

>>720185648
If the message is communism is better than to live in a technocracy dystopian hell hole. I will agree with Vladimir Lenin.

>>720188589
Lenin was all about technocracy and productivism, though.

>>720188589
People in NC still have the chance to make it big. It's definitely dystopian, but it's American, and holds true the ideal that you can do anything if you're willing to take the risk. That's what NC attracts. Risk-takers.

>>720185269 (OP)
>That second line
We already live in this reality straight up. It's not even political.
>>720188576
0% discernment niggers need not apply.

>>720185269 (OP)
Yeah no shit, retard.

Yeah dwag, Peter thiel is working on dropes that'll give you a lobotomy for wrong think

>>720185269 (OP)
There's something so repulsive about Cyberpunk 2077. I wish I could press a button to never see or hear about it again.

>>720185648
They hate Captalism but being polaks they hate communism too. The news paper hacker/ fortune teller mission took aim at tankies.
Dumb as all that was I do wonder if its way ahead of its time on AI. The brainwashed mayor was actually a great plot.

>>720188459
>>720188589
>capitalism is le evil
>unironically makes a dystopia look cool enough to live on
>makes people want to live there
it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling seeing retards do shit like this, is like when wearing Che shirts was a cool hip thing.

>>720188459
Is this even English? My favourite part is when you call Johnny right than use bolshevik as an insult. Pottery.
I hope you are a bot for your sake.

the message is that california fucking sucks

>>720190515
its only cool because you can respawn and never have to pay for anything

>>720185648
>Gibbson and Dick
>communist
lol some people are just stupid

>>720187093
Yeah? But what does that have to do with what I said?

>>720185269 (OP)
Yes. Although funnily enough I'd say it's sort of a deconstruction of punk. Johnny who is the stereotypical punk rock leader is portrayed as bitter and kind of a failure, all of his friends hate him because he was just an asshole to everyone and he died in an unmarked grave, his rebellion against Arasaka meant nothing because there was no long term plan and Samurai is mostly forgotten outside of some nerds obsessing over their merch. Meanwhile, the guy who we were led to believe was the main villain (Yorinobu) was actually doing more damage to Arasaka all along from the inside, despite being stereotyped by V as a corpo

>>720193154
>main villain (Yorinobu)
Calling Yorinobu a "main villain" is a stretch. He's barely present in the story and doesn't even try to go after V. He's not even that antagonistic to him in the corpo ending.
Even Smasher is a more defined "villain" than he is.

>>720188459
Because at the end of the day Johnny is just a charismatic psycho. He is just lashing out over the fact he hates everything and everyone. Corps are fucking awful but Johnny blames them for everything and uses them as an excuse to not face his own problems and just keep tearing shit down. If he found a way to bring downs the corps and restore shit and let people be free without all of the bs he would still be miserable since he is a very fucked up person. Part of why V is important is because in melding minds Johnny can face his shit and have someone who can ground him and say “hey man that was fucked up and you know it. Nuking a tower or shooting someone isn’t going to make you feel better.”

>>720188589
>I will agree with Vladimir Lenin.
Fuck you and your bolshevik inhuman scum friends you wrench

>>720188589
The Soviet Union still exists in Cyberpunk.

>>720193154
The thing is johnny himself even says that his whole world view is bullshit.
He tears down Saka, Millitech, Night corp and every dominant corporation. Then new ones just will take their place.
Bill's Burger joint family run small restaurant is what he claims he is fighting for. But then what if he destroys everyone else and then Bill's just becomes his next target. Because there is nobody else left and he would complain "it is not fair" and label them the corpo scum.
His whole world view is pointless and reductive. He just straight up admits that he needs an "enemy".
He was just an abusive narcissist, covering his personality issues in the uniform of the rebel.

>>720193021
>Gibbson
was a hippie deeply invested in the counterculture of the 60s and 70s. i wouldn't put it past him.

>>720193021
Don't explain it. Feckless dullards don't just suddenly gain intelligence.

>>720193272
The only reason why they storm your ass in the hideout is because you straight up attacked the parade and killed/wounded their head of security and kidnapped Hanako.
No shit they would be after you.

>>720193579
Probably a one of those dirty socialists. *spits*

>>720193154
I wouldn’t really call that a deconstruction. It’s more just presenting the what the punk ideology culminates in. You either die young in a blaze of hate and resentment or you just move on. Johnny is considered a legend but in the same way people in the U.S. consider Che Guevara a legend, they have a vague idea of who he was and what he did based on a cultivated myth around him and thus worship him based on that. Like Jackie thinks of Johnny as a legend and knows his drink from memory but everyone that actually knew the guy personally was at least exasperated by him.

>>720193601
That's literally the only time Yorinobu goes after you. Nothing else you do matters to him.

>>720193308
>>720193475
Perhaps, but 4 day work week still would be cool.
And I say this as someone who moved to Japan and works from home, having enough time to yap around here right now.

>>720185269 (OP)
>>720185648
capitalism is jewed to the core and incompatible with the human spirit
glad there's something we can find some middle ground with commies

>>720193775
What will your job be after the revolution?

>>720193775
What hell, conservative-bro?
You say this while voting for a capitalist like Trump? Most of what he did is helping his capitalist pals?
Oh right, doing less deportations than than Obama, but is more loud about it.
Fine then.

>>720193820
an alcoholic bricklayer but with no value-form in his unalienated labor (now as a pure human activity) XD!

>>720190558
bolshevik absolutely is an insult
those meathead retards didn't see killing kulaks (and then birds lmao) would lead to widespread famine and dead

not unlike our current day retards really

>>720190515
Who the fuck would like to live in NC irl? The place is filled with garbage that nobody is collecting. Every "fix" for every problem is sort sighted search for relief or vengeance. Everyone is addicted to drugs. All food is ultraprocessed slop. The natural end point of american "not my problem" attitude.

>>720193820
Bandit lol

*sigh*

In all seriousness, I probablg will go from productive member of society to a criminal. I hope there is no revolution.

>>720193712
The issue is you’re not seeing this from the wider perspective. You’re in it for a more personal reason. The issue with major monopolization and corporate bullshit is that it causes massive stagnation in the market and fucks the economy. A but part of capitalism is competition but if that is snuffed out then ultimately there is no real flow or circulation of capital. It’s all just a massive recycling operation where you buy something from a company so you can sell it to that company and then use the money to buy something else from the same company. There is no growth or investment. And I don’t mean growth as in stocks rising or the company expanding, I mean in the sense of society and the people within it. No innovation, no need to make anything new or interesting, no need to actually compete since people have no other choice than to buy from one place. And the companies end up failing anyway and needing to be propped up by the government because they become bloated masses trying to sustain their hold on whatever it is they’re monopolizing.

Riveting discovery, OP.
What's next? Water being wet?
Faggot retard

>>720185269 (OP)
Johnny is a bitter cunt you shouldn't take his words at face value
As evidenced by everything you see in the game when the POV switches to him

>>720193981
Are we living in late stage capitalism?!

>>720194026
Not to mention his POV is unreliable since his ass was almost immediately cut in half by Smasher yet he deluded himself into thinking otherwise.

>>720185269 (OP)
considering how farmers literally can't replant their seeds I'd say he was right about everything

>>720193820
gas chamber operator

>>720193853
we're beyond the right-left paradigm now and it's beautiful

>>720193923
Anyone who bases their real life politics after dystopian fiction is an idiot of the highest order.
The only reason NC even functions is because the writer needs it to function.
It is like MovieBob thinking that if they just genocide the people in the midwest Star Trek level tech will be invented and he can upload his mind to a robot body.

>>720194026
Yeah, Silverhand has spent the last 50 years ruminating, so his memories have been heavily altered by his ego.

>>720194117
Yup

But he's still a douche

>>720193923
You just described New York btw

>>720194102
He is the ultimate main character syndrome.
Blackhand played him like a mark and used him as bait as he armed the nuke. In the end he died a chump.
Saka did not give a fuck about him screaming fuck da corpos in to a mic till he turned blue.
They cared about Alt.

>>720194117
>nooo, I'm entitled to these seeds that aren't my intellectual property!
Don't pirate food.

>>720194060
No, the concept of “late stage capitalism” is a marxist one to make it seem like the system is dying and that it is an inevitable result that would have always happened. When in reality it’s all a matter of the fact that there has not been any proper maintenance done to stop shit from getting the way it is. Monopolies have been crushed before and they can be again. But that idea is hated by both corporations and communists since the former sees it as a threat to their bloated stagnant mass of greed, while the latter sees it as a threat to their “glorious revolution” since if people can just reform systems while keeping them capitalist instead of burning them down and going full commie then that means no one will give a shit about what Karl had to say.

>>720190438
Under capitalism, people oppress people. Under communism, the reverse is true.

>>720193404
What's it like?

>>720194202
Chicago, LA, Houston, Las Vegas, Atlanta Seattle, Washington DC, etc

>>720194215
Far as I know he didn't even arm the nuke.
Militech did, and they aren't even present in Johnny's deluded POV

>>720194202
At least you can eat rats in NYC. No food made from real animals in Night City, outside from some fly infested rotting carcasses in Pacifica.

>>720194215
2077 is contradictory though and I have no clue why. Like having Saburo mention a “J.S.” In his journal or even having his engram in the first place. Like how the fuck did they even get it? Johnny was already dead and we see what happens to engrams made from dead people if you send Jackie to Vic’s.

>>720194319
Read the lore, you can still get real food, it's just, dangerous.

>>720194307
Don’t really know. They mention it a few times in the game like when you have to do a few gigs for Regina to fuck with some Fixer from there. But otherwise there isn’t much. And I never read the lore about it.

>>720190438
You guys are such brainlets. Cyberpunk is capitalism taken to the extreme. Being against that extreem form doesnt make you against it in all forms. Only retards think in binary.

>>720194360
>we see what happens to engrams made from dead people if you send Jackie to Vic’s.
What is it? I sent Jackie to Vic's on my first playtrough and all I found was Takamura mentioning that Arasaka probably got Jackie'a engram stored somwhere. Do you need to get the Devil ending to see what happens?

>>720194124
>we're beyond the right-left paradigm now and it's beautiful
Certainly interesting to see. Things have gotten so bad even some conservatives notices.

I've been reading the conservative subreddit (yeah, I know, I know) and most of them would likely support every one of Bernie's policies if only he changed the wordplays around them a bit.

>>720185269 (OP)
Cyberpunk is an water downed piece of shit made to fit European sentiment

>>720194417
/v/ is dichotomy-brained. Every issue has 'our side' and 'their side'.

>>720194417
>umm Cyberpunk is pro capitalism, actually!

>>720194315
The "lore" states that Blackhand team did the real nuke drop.
>Like how the fuck did they even get it?
Well depending on how much will be retconed in the series next. Spider Murphy soul killed Johnnny as he lay half dead and ripped in half from Smashers shot. But did not have time to pull the shard out. So she had to leave it there.
Then there is the whole body being smuggled out in the remains of the nuke's case to Mexico.
Lore is quite messy and is in need of a retcon and clarifacation in some area's.

>>720194184
he's a narcissist and probably cyberpsycho, but the message and intentions were good, kinda like how Bartmoss wanted to make a more free internet but ended up making everything worse and under much more surveillance.

>>720194360
>>720194584

>>720194481
>Do you need to get the Devil ending to see what happens?
Yeah they managed to get some remnants of him but it’s all fucked up and patchy. It’s kind of receptive to what you say but can only speak in quotes that he has previously said to V.

>>720185269 (OP)
He's just stating facts, here. Almost every person on both the "far" right and the "far" left agree that corpos are the true enemy, and the corpos just use the net to turn them against one another with targeted agitation propaganda. Look at how the internet changed so drastically after the Occupy movement floundered... ain't no coincidence, faggots. Divide et impera; nihil sub sole novum.

>>720194524
>the european sentiment
don't let corporations and governments shit down your throat?

>>720194632
Thank you for clearing that up. That was bugging me. I knew Spider was fucking around with Soul killer but everything is described very fast and there is little clarification.

>>720194307
Apparently it's an ok place compared to the USA

>>720194535
It's not pro anything.

>>720185648
But the image OP posted is anti-bolshevik, anti-farm collectivization and anti-communist?

>>720187093
No, not at all. I didn't see them do anything worse than what governments do.

>>720194527
But there are actual ideologue that pretend to be neutral on an issue only to out themselves as trying to do it for the sake of saying that the group against them is bad since they can’t argue or really hold ground in a debate.

>>720194609
The entire theme of it is
>Road to hell is paved with good intentions
You see it in every characters story. Take Judy.
Her brainless plan to take over the Doll club, just backfires. Because she had a good intention, but bad planing, bad future planing and a stubborn i know i am always right attitude.
It ended up with the Dolls who helped you dead. Depending on your choices the Tygers retake the club and then she has the fucking audacity to blame you, and ditch you for another city.

>>720187093
It never stops at just a bit, you need to be really careful about regulation because otherwise you end up with full blown fascism.
People on this site will recognize the slippery slope on everything from weapons to speech but you say this and suddenly you're the devil

>>720194261
The argument that the rate of return on capital is greater than the rate of economic growth isn't necessarily Marxist. It's just what the data shows.

>>720185269 (OP)
Of course, but the point is there are multiple political sides
>>720185648
Anon, it’s a RPG that has many sides

>>720194654
Nah people on the right love tech bros and people on the left love mainstream media, which are both some of the largest "corpos" in the West.

>>720194535
It actually is. The only reason the punks are able to fight back and have agency is from capitalism that is not shackled by the neo-mercantlism that the corporations run under. Not that a commie like you would understand the difference, because for you anything that isn't pure, "true"communism that meets the utopian ideal is "capitalism." Your so ignorant that you don't realize "system has money and keeps track of it to get the most out of that money based on the perceived value of goods" doesn't automatically make something capitalist, and so ignorant you don't understand that even a communist system would operate the exact same way with the "profit" structure of money being decided by central pricing structures saying what goods are valued at what and that a form of money will still be necessary to keep track of the "needs" of the people in relation to the work (aka value) they have provided the collective.

But, then again, you are so stupid you probably the think the Culture is communist, when in fact it is the ultimate form anarcho-socialism, and no, that is not the same as communism.

>>720193820
Killing commies

>>720185269 (OP)
Are you fucking retarded?

>>720194931
But that’s not what the argument implies. The argument is saying that capitalism as it is in the “late stage” which speaks of a sense of finality and ending. When in reality it’s just a matter of stagnation within the market and system. It doesn’t necessarily end just becomes worse. It can be fixed and remedied but the people that push the term are afraid of that for reasons I have already mentioned.

>>720193775
Why are you on /v/
Games don’t exist under communism
They have no purpose

>>720194535
Cyberpunk as a genre literally only exists due to capitalism

>>720194484
What you are dealing with a is the soiifcation problem.
The only ones visible saying those talking points are fat blue haired white women and their soi faced gimps.
You have fucking dog walker spergs who have never worked a real job in their lives, turning up to TV to say how he is going to teach philosophy after the revolution.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCo-OgSC7Ps
You have race grifters talking down to hard working whites.
It is what lost you last years election.

>>720185269 (OP)
Everything is political, but not everything is propaganda.

>>720195259
Similiarly how Orwell's Animal Farm only exists thanks to Soviet Union.

>>720194968
What do you think I meant when I said the corpos were using the net to turn them against one another? Use your head faggot. Think more, type less.

>>720195354
Not everything is political. You can try to force it to be but at the end of the day that is only a person projecting their own ideas onto something in an attempt to compliment or demonize an idea. Take for example the Sun. A giant ball of flaming gas in space. Nothing inherently political about that whatsoever.

>>720195081
We need to go back to monarchy, the only system that works.

>>720195459
Everything manmade is political.

>>720185269 (OP)
No, Johnny is. A rebel with a capital R. Hates the institutions, hates the state, hates "the man." And in the end he gives his life for the cause. But V can call Johnny on his bullshit in every single conversation. The player isn't forced to accept any ideology. You hate "the man" just as much as Johnny, you can be a statist who likes the status quo and you can be a corpo boot licker if you want. The game supports it all.

>>720195203
Well they do, but only the ruling party members are allowed to license them out for sale in capitalist country's it seems. The man who invented Tetris did not even see a sniff of money the game made till after the fall.
That was the big problem with communists, they are all hypocritical assholes who leach of the sweat of creators brows.
Like how the UK Deputy Prime minister just got ousted, because she got caught dodging tax's using all the "fat cats" tax tricks, while being a "avowed socialist" and raising everyone else's taxes in 4 weeks.

>>720195436
Who is saying that? It’s more that the idea that the only way to fight shit is to just wreck everything and destroy shit until change comes is asinine. The whole point of the violence is it’s supposed to be just one part to achieve an end goal. It is to gain something. But if you gain nothing it is simply destruction.

>>720193021
>Phillip k dick
>Had literal communist papers in his safe the CIA broke into his house to get
>Not a communist
I truly hate election tourists.
>>720193579
He also invented an entire genre about capitalist acceleration technological dystopia but sure it hurts baby anons fee fees that he might be left wing.

>>720195510
A shovel is not political, neither is a spear. They are merely tools that are used for certain purposes. Again no inherent politics involved just a matter or projecting onto them.

>>720195459
>A giant ball of flaming gas in space.
A very human, and thus political, reading of the phenomenon

Johnny and Tracer Tong are hella based. Blow it all up, JC! The Corporate Overlords are the enemy, and you can be DAMN SURE the AI don't have a Human concept of 'Humanity'! They just see you as a data packet, man!

>>720195459
>Nothing inherently political about that whatsoever.
Till we get space civilization, then we will have a tribe of people who claim that that is their sacred sun and will be saying people stole it 300 years after they got BTFO in warfare.

so what do you guys think the new update is?

because i remember them talking about one coming up that we will like, and then they said that the latest one was not what they were referring to.

>>720189137
>People in NC still have the chance to make it big.
No they quite literally don't. You have characters that stand at the peak in Night city.
You will never dethrone or be as rich as Saburo Arasaka.
You will never be as chromed out as Adam Smasher, cyber psychosis is a fail condition in the tabletop.
You will never be as much of a rockerboy amarchist as Johnny Silverhand.
Characters like that are there to taunt you with their status, into trying to dethrone them, only for you to turn into a full on night city legend.
Thats why David makes the stupid decision to go full cyber psycho instead of just getting out of Night City with Lucy.
It's why the only happy endings for V are them leaving with Panam or giving up on having cyberware entirely.

>>720195497
No, monarchy is too unstable and relies on nepotism. You can say the same about the current system but that is because no one is doing anything to stop it. With monarchy it is inherent given that blood is what gives power and the closer you are to the rulers blood the more powerful you are.

>>720195594
He actually said in one of his interviews that he never envisioned the Sprawl as a dystopia, though.

>>720195672
>monarchy is too unstable
>let's have a king every 4 years instead!

>>720195609
Making a shovel is a political act. Using a shovel is a political act. Storing a shovel is a political act. Discarding a shovel is a political act. You can cry, piss and shit how (You)'re somehow apolitical aberration, but that is not so.

>>720195614
It’s not, that fact does not change. Mankind did not exist to know that it would still be the case. Even now you need to try and project yourself onto the situation.

>>720185648
polturd, kys

>>720195629
when spaceships are common, will we get indians getting killed by them like they do with trains now?

>>720195629
Again, that is not inherent to the sun but what people put onto it. The sun existed before any of that shit, it will most likely exist after it as well.

>>720195742
HELLO SARRR GO IN THE AIR LOCK SARRR

>>720195723
It's only a fact from human perspective. From the perspective of a quark it's very different beast altogether.

>>720195696
You don’t vote for a king and a king doesn’t get dick waves by his lessers constantly.

>>720195702
is you having schizophrenia a poltical act?

>>720195459
>>720195771
You're projecting apoliticism onto the Sun, though.
And that too is ideologically motivated.

>>720195821
You can have a system where the king is voted into office althoughbeit

>>720195771
Only humans can create something political. Nature can only create the cause of the designation.
While true it is not born that way, we make it that way, when we stake a claim.
There is a reason why we already have treaty's in place concerning space and what can be put up there.

>>720195821
What is a dick wave?

>>720195702
It’s not, there is nothing inherently political about that. You’re just stubbornly saying it is because you can’t accept that you’re projecting your ideas onto inanimate objects and things. Any answer that you give to try and rationalize it will just prove this given they culminate in saying that because an item or thing is thought or or used that means that it is political even though it is ultimately the person using it and the intent that does that not the thing itself.

>>720195840
I accept your concession.

>>720195785
we shall poo where no man had poo befor

>>720185269 (OP)
>johnny's whole character arc was 'oldasslibtard realizing how shitty person he was and dunno shit & was wrong 'bout everything' (that's why I liked it)
>fucking retarded zoomerlibtroon and /pol/tards think this game was anarchist brainwashing or some sheet
You must be kidding, right?

>>720195930
It wont be spaceships they will get hit by.
It will be how close they can get to a blackhole or a sun.

>>720195856
I’m not, I’m just pointing out that it goes beyond politics and since you can’t actually give a counter you have to resort to trying to throw what I said to you back at me yet the difference is you can’t actually support it.

>>720195908
>n-no!
Top argumentation. A shovel doesn't just appear out of thin air. It's made for a reason. And that reason has a political background.

>>720195864
Name a monarchy that voted their sovereign via popular elections and had multiple branches of government that could override his authority?

>>720195987
tell me about it man. i've been trying to tell my grandma she's a mazo-columnist with a free market lean because of the way she does her gardening

>>720195896
>Only humans can create something political
Only humans can say something is political. To say that everything is political is something that only we do and it is not based on it actually being political but rather what we project onto it and consider to be political.

>>720195897
Sort of not submitting and being generally dismissive of.

>>720193820
Card-carrying Party member :^)

The leopards won't eat my face :^)

>>720195987
>Top argumentation
It is since you can only give a strawman and can’t actually argue what I said. You think that something being man made makes it political. How is a shovel political? How is digging a hole political?

Communism and capitalism are both wrong. Let me introduce the perfect system: meism. Basically, I have all of the money and power and stuff and I can do whatever I want without ever facing consequences for it, and everyone else can go fuck themselves. This is the best system because it benefits me, the most important person ever, and only me.

>>720196259
I literally do not care if billions of people suffer and die as a result of my actions, as long as I'm not one of those people. All of my talk about wanting a better world is just a flimsy justification for sating my insatiable need for power and control. I don't want to end oppression, I want to become the oppressor.

And saying that makes me the most honest person ever.

monopolies and oligopolies need to be broken up.
competition in capitalism doesn't function if there's only 1 group that controls all the resources in a given sector.
supreme court will soon break up google and apple's app stores. they had a chokehold on mobile apps.

>>720196027
>multiple branches of government that could override his authority
You are so fucking dumb holy shit. The whole point of monarchy is that the sole person in charge has all the power and all the responsibility for using it. The biggest failing of any and all systems that came after 18th century is that split of power births invisible bureaucratic machine that has literally no accountability by fucking design. Policies are made by twenty different departments with 100 different commissions trusted on talking head to announce it and shift all the blame if something goes wrong and if it ever gets back to those departments and commissions they will play hot potato till it blows over.

>>720194774
>Monopolisation
>Collectivisation
If you can't tell the difference between these two you may as well just skip ahead to capitalism = communism

>>720197807
>owned by single entity vs owned by single entity
There is no difference.
>b-but muh collective ownership!
That just means it's owned by the government.

>>720196259
literally me but remove the third sentence and the badge

>>720197892
Who owns the government?

>>720197936
The General Secretary.

>>720197936
Certainly not the general populace.

>>720195696
the problem here is you trying to run a return to enlightened absolutism under the guise of monarchy
multiple european countries are still constitutional monarchies, but that is not what you want.

>>720194739
It was an ok place compared to the USA during its actual heyday too. Soviet Ruble held value parity with the US dollar. Look at the Russian Ruble, kek.

>>720193820
state employed gay rapist

>>720195696
Correct. That way if you end up having a shit king then you can replace him in 4 years.
Under monarchy, if you have a shit king you're stuck with him for as long as he lives.

>>720195696
Difference between non monarchist governments is that when a "king" steps down in a democracy, a bloody succession war doesn't break out because each of the candidates has his own military and the king didn't have any children, or had too many of them. This is the real reason the monarchies died. Everyone, even the vilest, stupidest motherfuckers, realized that having a civil war every time a fucking king dies, is assassinated, or falls down a flight of stairs and breaks his neck, or has his horse throw him onto the ground, or is shit by a Serbian man, is not sustainable and will just lead to everyone going extinct.

>>720189137
No, in NC "making it" for almost everyone is having your 15 minutes of fame before being drowned by the next new big thing. Who even remembers Johnny now
>>720194307
The Soviet Union exists but it's no longer socialist. It's like an eastern European Union. Apparently it's the only country in the world that still provides free healthcare but it's still ruled by SovOil

>>720198180
How is that a problem?

>>720198260
If you have a shit king you replace him in 4 years and on the off chance than king is not shit he will spend 4 years undoing everything the shit king did, the shit king's party will point to this as proof that the new king is also shit because he's not doing anything and then the shit king will get re-elected in the next 4 years and start all his shit again from the beginning.

>>720198382
In an absolute monarchy only one person would have a military.

>>720198106
There ya go then, that's not communism

>>720185269 (OP)
Leave alone the ginormous megacorps.

>>720198791
Yes it is. This is the same shit as saying a system with any market regulation at all is not real capitalism.

>>720198396
absolutists tend to lose sight of the real issues also
they begin to think their personal issues are national ones, which is bad for the nation when all powers are combined in a single person
it is also inherently unstable, as succession crisis are hard to avoid, no matter the mechanics of the actual succession
great feats can be accomplished by a competent absolute ruler, no doubt
but this is also possible in republics, so why rob yourself of a venue for power exchange for no guaranteed benefit?

>>720185269 (OP)
Well it is and it isn't.

Cyberpunk doesn't tell you which Political view is right which it makes better than most of trash political games like Veilguard that literally try to reeducate you into specific political view.

Cyberpunk is rich in side quests and small scraps of lore and small stories within and through them you see many aspects of politics from different perspectives.

Cyberpunk just shows you that something is wrong with this system but it doesn't show you a direct way how to fix it or which alternative is best.

>>720185648
>>720188589
It doesn't matter what Cyberpunk is actually about, communists will always strawman it into being "the consequences of capitalism" and the solution for it is the version of communist that only exists in their head, not what actually happened when it is implemented.

>>720190515
>cool to live in
You’re the main character retard, you can slice through 10 people in less than a second, you own 20 cars and have 5 apartments and a million in the bank
Now imagine being the average Joe in Night City, you work 12-14 hours a day(some work more) for pennies, live in a shity megabuilding eating slop because real food is too expensive, you need implants for work so you need an expensive loan if you don’t pay they send Trauma Team after you to rape your ass, you can die at any corner duo to gangs, criminals, police, Maxtac etc
Sound like a lot of fun

>>720185648
Not giving unlimited power to corps isn't communist.

>>720198503
Until the one person dies and military ownership is scattered across multiple generals who could play at being a kingmaker

>>720198868
Nah, that's a cop-out. Both communism and capitalism are well-described. Capitalism is a system of private ownership that depends on the labour of a proletariat that has no commodity but its labour power. Communism is a classless society in which the economy is directed by the needs of the people. The idea that "market regulation" is an inherently communist thing was sold to you by capitalists, and they charged you for the privilege.

>>720198260
Under monarchy you have a shit king for as long as nobles tolerate him. And i do mean proper nobles that are tied to the land in your country under your monarch, not a tech nobles of today that aren't tied by anything and have no concept of noblesse oblige.

>"we can't abandon capitalism, it makes everything work"

>hundreds of years of the lord-serf system, all monarchies are a now a distant memory or just for show
>"we can't depose the king, he makes everything work"

It's easy to spot a serf.

>>720198906
almost every great thing had to be thought out in peoples heads before it could be realized...
>>720199420
>trust me bro the systems of the past had collapsed before (although i can't explain why) so this poorly described system that dominates the entire world will collapse too (i don't know why aside from debunked ideas like crisis theories)

>>720185269 (OP)
Why can't zoomers understand the concept of genres? Even your Tik Tok videos must have them, like you wouldn't take life advice from a comedy video, and you wouldn't expect explosions and bright lights from an educational one. What you see in the pic is just the frame which the game's genre works within.

>>720199420
>we can't abandon capitalism, it makes everything work
The reason we shouldn't abandon it is because no one has proposed a better system.

>game (product) is about anti capitalism
>devs spraypainting the message of 'capitalism le bad, corporation le spoopy, robot le scary, technological advancement le dystopian' all over the place in the entire game (product)
>game (product) released and filled with bugs and other technical issues, leading to massive refunds from players
>massive loss of profit because game (product) dont sell
>months later they resort into making another product (anime series) to advertise their anti capitalism game (product) again
>people crawl back to consoom the anti capitalism game and buy their product again to learn that capitalism le bad
>anti capitalism game ended up being a massive success and profit making product
Bonus:
>devs released additional content (dlc) for their product
>so called dlc introduce a new technology called path tracing that can only be enabled if you own the latest $2000 hardware that can run and render the game with path tracing
>"in order to enjoy this anti capitalism product you have to buy another product"
>the anti capitalism video game is now being used as a benchmark for the newest hardware product to see whether they can run this product or not
Bonus 2:
>nintendo reach up to devs and asked whether they can re engineer the anti capitalism game so that it can run in the newest switch and devs said yes
>the anti capitalism product is now being ported in the newest nintendo switch with the same price for the nintendo audience

>>720199669
>i was born under it means it is good

>>720199001
Not if there's a clear line of succession.

>>720199683
i don't believe that people have bought the game (product) for its anti-robot propaganda, i think it had to do with witcher 3 being a massive success and people wanting a GTA-style RPG game (product) that is just as good

>>720199683
>corporation le spoopy, robot le scary, technological advancement le dystopian
I mean all this is true. Doesn't mean I have to go and live in the woods with hippies and niggers smoking blunts in the circle.

>>720198872
None of this is exclusive to absolutism.
>they begin to think their personal issues are national ones, which is bad for the nation when all powers are combined in a single person
The exact same thing happens in a democracy, it's happening in every democracy right now.

>>720199548
>although i can't explain why
You can't, perhaps; dialectical materialism can.

What's this new schtick where games arent supposed to be political? You'd skip playing Bioshock, Cyberpunk, Mass Effect, Deus Ex, VtmB and countless others because they're "political"?

Also, who the fuck would even shill for corporations in the CP2077 universe unless they stand to profit?

>>720199742
Propose a better system, dipshit.

>>720199669
It takes any reasonable person like five seconds to come up with a better alternative to what we have now, and the only reason we're not making the world better is because a bunch of rich fuckers wouldn't like it.

>>720199924
not a real thing

>>720200004
>It takes any reasonable person like five seconds to come up with a better alternative to what we have now
Go ahead, tell it, kid.

>>720200004
>It takes any reasonable person like five seconds to come up with a better alternative
Where is it then, you retarded doublenigger? Propose your fucking alternative.

>>720199986
Monarchy.

>>720200119
Monarchy is not exclusive with capitalism, retard.
Explain how the markets will work. How property ownership will work. How management will work.

>>720200054
>>720200060
t. unreasonable persons

We absolutely can feed, clothe, house, educate, and cure every person in the whole world and have shit left over. There is enough "value" going around in the economy, there is enough labour power, there are enough resources. The only problem is that the people who control the economy do so entirely for their own gratification at everyone else's expense. So if you tell me
>ah but we can't use their money to make things better, you see, they wouldn't like it!
then you're agreeing with me that these selfish cunts are the problem.

Video games should also be free.

>>720199936
rightoids are buck broken

>>720200191
>We absolutely can feed, clothe, house, educate, and cure every person in the whole world
We shouldn't. Look at blacks. West been feeding them for decades. What they do? They multiply, while not solving a single problem they had and only making things worse.

>>720185269 (OP)
Would CP2077 be a better game if they went with the original 3 engrams for each path plan?

>>720199936
It's capitalism so therefore it's good. The government and corporations in my country told me so.

>>720193820
Yes, millions had their own farms to feed themselves and sell production at higher prices then they later bought back from shops. Nobody cared about pesticide use or humane animal slaughtering.

Cyberpunk is more about unchecked power being dangerous than being anti-capitalism, in our history, most if not all crimes against humanity were commited by a state without checks and balances instead of a private company, but since Cyberpunk as a genre started in the 70s and 80s, megacorps were chosen as the villain, because those were the decades were technology had unprecedented advancements, and this new tech was being developed by private companies, the authors just took this concept and pushed to a comically exagerated degree, so much they truly believed we would have flying cars and become cyborgs by year 2000.

Even in universe, corporations can't reach their levels of power without first abusing the power of the state, they lobbied and elected officials in the city council to do their bidding.

I have no idea what's the solution or what's the perfect system, but blaming everything on capitalism (which is essentially the free trade of goods and services) is just a shallow interpretation of the setting with the intent of pushing a agenda.

>>720200191
how will you distribute it how will you organize the transport how will you know the needs of the people how will you incentivize da people to work bro

>>720200191
>The alternative is communism! We just need a planned economy!
Millions already died to prove this retarded shit doesn't work.
You can refuse to learn the lessons of history all you want, but when you open your retarded mouth about it then all you will get is being called a retard.
So fuck off, retard. Go read a fucking history book.

>>720200351
Logistical details can be worked out later; it's not like you can give me a complete and detailed description of how these things are arranged currently. We are incredibly far from needing to figure this out so it'd just be idle theorycrafting. This is something that will have to be figured out when the time actually comes. But I will address this:
>how will you incentivize da people to work bro
Call me an idealist but I do think that people might work without the threat of starvation.

>>720200364
>Making society better in all the obvious, common sense ways is communism
Thank you for admitting it

>>720200516
>I do think that people might work without the threat of starvation.
Look at Africa, retard.

>>720193775
>the absolute state of a modern "national socialist" (retarded larper)
If Hitler would see this, he would shoot himself again.

>>720200516
Kike

>>720200617
True. The yoke of colonialism is a heavy burden, killing future prospects of its victims to this day.

kill all /pol/tards
/pol/tard holocaust when

>>720200364
>Millions already died to prove this retarded shit doesn't work.
the trillions of corpses lying on the streets of the entire eastern bloc for 50 years straight...

>>720200516
>Logistical details can be worked out later
No they fucking can't, you absolute drooling imbecile. Currently these details are worked out by the market, consisting of private companies, in a decentralized way. If you're going to replace the market with a centrally planned bureaucracy then the amount of things it would have to plan is so obscene that it will INEVITABLY become a bloated mess that gets next to nothing done at all. This has happened in every fucking commie country before.
Learn. Your. History. Retard.

>>720199826
yes, please read the last sentence of my post.
it's all about how bad it needs to get before it gets better and what kind of authority needs to be exercised from the bottom up to change course

>>720200692
Speak plainly, faggot. I'm not gonna bother guessing what retarded insinuation you tried to make.

>>720200364
>he says, while ignoring the billions of victims of capitalism

>>720194245
Biotechnica engineered pathogens to kill all crops but the ones engineered by them.

>>720200753
Ah yes, the billions of "victims" that were lifted out of poverty by it. How horrible.
>b-but I'm poor in Murrica!
No you're fucking not. Thanks to capitalism you're so far removed from ever having experience actual poverty that you don't even know what it is.

>>720200753
victims of communism have their entire families wiped out by secret police for not singing the internationale during the holy mass
victims of capitalism can't afford to upgrade their iPhone 15 Pro Plus Max 1TB

>>720200364
>the USSR couldn't make something work, so absolutely no one can
Vietnam has been communist since the they won their war. They have one of the lowest poverty rates of all developed nations (6% vs US's 18%) and they're the 2nd "happiest" place in SEA (happiness index thing). If you're in the US and on food stamps/section 8 your life would objectively be better as a laborer in Hanoi.

>>720200660
Even never colonized african countries are shitholes. People are not equal. You are, for example, a fucking retard.

>>720185269 (OP)
Anyone that uses the word "politic" and variations should be killed.

>>720200817
Shouldn't have pirated those crops.

>>720200904
Their story is the same as China. They were dirt poor under communism and as soon as they opened their markets and let international companies come and do business, suddenly their prosperity skyrocketed.

>any criticism of a capitalist society is communist
back when commies were in charge (in my country) they claimed any criticism of them was capitalist infiltration poisoning the mind of the people
and look at where that got us, communism is gone, and we're all the richer for it
I'm not sure if the conclusion is that criticism is communist, or if it's a good thing, but I know it can't be both.

>>720201028
>they claimed any criticism of them was capitalist infiltration poisoning the mind of the people
they were right

>>720200904
Vietnam literally makes all they money trading with developed countries via cheap labor and relies on China and America for tech.

>>720200946
>Even never colonized african countries
No such thing. Even countries like Ethiophia suffered immensely from colonialism despite never being officially under foreign power (outside of Italy for a brief period during WW2).

Fitting you're saying people aren't created equal while insisting of treating a billion people as one and the same. Because your walnut brain can't fathom nuance nor complexity

>>720201028
Communism/socialism only brings misery and death.

>>720200832
>victims of capitalism
You don't even know what those actually are. Prior to the New Deal children worked in factories for 16 hours a day. Miners worked with zero safety equipment in narrow corridors that regularly caved-in. The people who laid America's railways were worked to the bone and when they came for a paycheck, they just shot them and left the corpses in the desert.

And god help anyone who worked in the meat packing plants. Read The Jungle if you want to understand what capitalism is actually like prior to unions (a communist idea) and what the owning class wants to return to.

>>720201028
>any criticism of them was capitalist infiltration poisoning the mind
Some of it was.

>>720201116
Blacks should be isolated from the rest of the world, they are not ready to participate in it. They multiply like cockroaches on freebies, instead of being better. So unless your worldview accounts for that, you are a certified retard.

>if you don't suck corpo cock your're le evil commie
Americans get brainwashed by jews in school

>>720200702
>No they fucking can't, you absolute drooling imbecile.
Yes, they can. Can you tell me, in detail, how Walmart manages to run and supply all its stores across an entire country from a central location? No, of course not; that requires training, expertise, and access to information you do not currently possess. But the fact is that there are people who are managing it currently. Amazon and facebook are micro-targeting personal advertisements to you. We absolutely can anticipate people's needs and we absolute can run large-scale logistical operations, and just because I personally am not qualified to oversee them all does not at all detract from my right to advocate for a better world. In fact, that is quite an unreasonable demand to place on anyone who thinks we can do slightly better.
>Oh, can you personally run the economy in detail better than is currently being done? No? Didn't think so, pass!
It's a disingenuous thought-terminating cliché.

>>720200824
11 percent of America lives in poverty

>>720200824
>lifted out of poverty
>turned into depressed goy cattle

>>720201383
I heard a story of a woman getting targeted ads for baby care products because of her recent Internet habits despite not knowing she was pregnant.

>>720200702
>>720201383
In fact what you're doing is really no different from
>Oh, you think we should go back to the Moon? Tell me right now how a rocket works!

>>720200516
You argue in such bad faith, holy shit, this reads like a propaganda piece.

Your ideology doesn't work in the real world, it has been tried and failed multiple times, there's a reason for it, look up "Mises economic calculation" and read it.

The main issue is how you decide to convert people into your group, you take a inconvinience like expensive rent and greatly exagerates it to fit your narrative, expensive rent becomes "we can't house anyone!", when in reality a McDonald's worker can rent a apartment if he has roommates.

What's worse is how you take this grossly exagerated issue and your solution is a ideal version of communism, that not only was never implemented but can't be implemented due to the economic calculation issue.

The worst thing about this is how even those inconviniences in our current system are caused by intervention in the capitalist economy, rent isn't expensive just because landlords want to profit, it would make more sense to build more condos, they would have more profit if they could, but because of zoning laws and other building restrictions, nobody can build more condos, and because of supply/demand, the apartments that currently exist get more expensive.

You know why boomers had it so good? Not every aspect of their lives had some stupid law trying to regulate it.

>>720200516
>Logistical details can be worked out later
>t. a (soon to be failed) revolutionary
this never works out, you need a plan, even if that plan steps all over your high ideals
you are talking about massive, global wealth redistribution
how are you going to compensate the losers of the deal? how are you going to prevent counter-revolution? how are you going to make sure the wealth does not get 'redistributed' into the hands of the few with the power to take?
how are you going to reprogram billions of people raised on the beliefs of capitalism?
not saying don't do it, just saying you NEED a thought out mission statement or you're just throwing matches at a haystack to see it burn
>>720201028
based

>>720201383
>Walmart
Has huge networks of distribution in the USA which is a country that has a shit ton of infrastructure in place that allows that to happen.

You cannot replicate that in areas with extremely rough terrain, areas without pavement, areas without electricity/water/internet, warzones, etc.

Logistics in a comfy city with comfy infrastructure doesn't work anywhere else. Even in the USA if there was a major tragedy like a huge earthquake or a tsunami the distribution capabilities of Walmart would be hit hard and they would be unable to continue until infrastructure was repaired.

That's the issue with you first world idiots: you take far too much for granted. Does the USA waste enough food to feed the entire planet? In theory yes, but there isn't a realistic way to distribute that food to the people in need. People in Africa don't starve because they want to, they starve because they lack all major infrastructure to make modern food production and distribution possible. They're still working with bronze-age tooling in harsh environments without the necessary infrastructure to make it possible.
>Amazon and facebook are micro-targeting personal advertisements to you. We absolutely can anticipate people's needs
No they aren't lmao. Online ad campaigns are a huge scam. Advertisers are scamming everyone.

Not that it matters. Being able to create a profile for a 25-year old male that likes anime and punk rock is completely useless when talking about education or actual physical needs. There is a reason marketing only sells crap instead of real solutions.

>>720201701
How would you solve companies like Blackrock buying houses and jacking up the prices and rent?

>>720201701
>You argue in such bad faith
No u
>this reads like a propaganda piece.
You don't have to announce your posts.
>in reality a McDonald's worker can rent a apartment if he has roommates.
Bless our capitalist overlords! God damn, you are such a massive cuck.

>>720201717
>this never works out, you need a plan
I am currently one person shitposting on /v/. When I get a Marxist-Leninist vanguard together, I'll see that we work things out in a little more detail, okay?
>how are you going to compensate the losers of the deal? how are you going to prevent counter-revolution?
You are agreeing with me again: the only thing standing between us and a better world is a few rich selfish fucks. We can make this honest observation without immediately also needing to come up with a workable solution to it.

>>720201701
You forgot to mention how the inflation-based monetary system makes it so rich people and corporations have to invest on tangible real-world goods to avoid losing value so they purchase land and housing which drives prices up.

This inflation-based monetary system means that regular workers lose value every single day but it's in place because it benefits the government and banks.
>>720201882
>the only thing standing between us and a better world is a few rich selfish fucks
Every single communist shithole ends up persecuting farmers and eventually workers. Without exceptions.

>>720201842
You do realise that capitalism doesn't magically solve these logistical issues? What even is your point here?

>>720202020
>Every single communist shithole ends up persecuting farmers and eventually workers.
I don't care about the chip on your shoulder regarding communism. Just be honest with me: we absolutely have the resources to make society better, and a handful of people is actively choosing not to do that instead. This is the reality. I know you think admitting that is tantamount to communism and communism equals Stalinism, but you are getting way ahead of yourself. Start here. Admit the truth.

>>720193820
state employed straight rapist

>>720202039
Nobody claims that capitalism solves those logistical issues. These large-scale complex systems exist due to capitalist incentives though. Nothing similar has ever existed under communism.
>>720202129
>Just be honest with me: we absolutely have the resources to make society better, and a handful of people is actively choosing not to do that instead
Not in the way you claim. Are there things that could be done better? Yes. Can we magically make all resources available to everyone and clothe, feed and educate everyone? No, that cannot be done.
>I know you think admitting that is tantamount to communism and communism equals Stalinism, but you are getting way ahead of yourself
I actually came from a socialist country and was forced to study socialism doctrine in college. What the fuck are you? A 20-something with an idealized and unrealistic view of the world.
>Start here. Admit the truth.
Leave the emotional manipulation for Twitter.

>>720201882
i wasn't talking you specifically here, it's just something i noticed with people who concern themselves with the social question
of course global parity would be jolly great, now how the fuck do we get there without getting half of the population mulched?
>only thing standing between us and a better world is a few rich selfish fucks.
'a few'? most of the people living in in europe, north america, australia, etc would need to lower their living standards substantially (at least in the short to middle term) to achieve what you are proposing
we (you too, in all probability) will not let this stand without compensation, i am telling you

>>720202129
>we absolutely have the resources to make society better
We do but every single politician, activist, and "do-gooder" wanting the resources to make society "better" abscond with it for their own purposes.

>>720201882
>God damn, you are such a massive cuck
To all anons and lurkers reading, this is how a communist argues, he completely ignored my central argument and just replied to the part where he knew he could invoke strong feelings.

He ignored that if you actually put in the effort to work, you can actually afford to rent your own space and not be homeless, but instead he attempted to twist this into me being submissive to corportations, his argument is based on making the opponent look bad instead of actually looking at the facts.

>>720202310
>Are there things that could be done better? Yes.
And the reason they aren't is because it's not profitable to big business.

>>720202381
>People who claim to want to improve things are all selfish
>So instead we should just let everything be run by the profit incentive
???

>>720190515
>cool enough to live on
Next time you play notice that NC trash bins have a label to not throw babies into them. It's a literal hell where people kill newborns so casually they had to place labels on common object to remind them not to do that. It's peak dystopia.

>>720202465
so they fixed the child birth rate problem? that's based.

>>720202438
>>People who claim to want to improve things are all selfish
This is universally true.

>>720195651
go back to /v/ videogamer

>>720201871
They can't buy all the houses and keep rent up forever, because eventually their supply will not meet the demand. Remember the 2008 crash and those $1 houses? Something similar happened.

>>720202438
>And the reason they aren't is because it's not profitable to big business.
It's not profitable to anyone. Small businesses, self-employed and farmers could theoretically make billions by selling food to faraway villages in Subsaharan Africa. They cannot make the food reach them, so they barely do.

>>720202020
>inflation-based monetary
I didn't mention but you're completely on point.

>>720202429
>this is how a communist argues, he completely ignored my central argument
No u, again! I guess you're a filthy commie cuck.
You know what the point I repeatedly made is? It's easy to imagine a better world. It's easy to imagine a fairer distribution of resources. And the reason we don't have it is because resources are being gatekept by a small elite of selfish fuckers. That's it. You immediately started ranting about the USSR and ideal communism and the need to sort out the logistics of distribution before I get to suggest anything can be improved.

You're a hypocrite, a propagandist, and remain a cuck.
>He ignored that if you actually put in the effort to work, you can actually afford to rent your own space and not be homeless
This is literally not true for everyone; besides that, joblessness is an inherent feature of capitalism. You are trying to recast systemic failures as individual moral failures in an attempt to imply that I'm just a lazy layabout who wants hand-outs, rather than someone who is keenly aware of the many injustices perpetrated against people all over the world. Because you are trying to invoke strong feelings, rather than argue the point.

>>720185269 (OP)
>>720185648
These are the same retards who say FF7 is about climate change.
Yes Mako extraction is bad for the planet, but it is the combination of technology and faith that saves the planet.

It is fitting an asteroid is what threatens the planet. Our Earth could be wiped out at any moment by a celestial event completely out of our control. Only technology and faith protect us, not hippie drum circles.

>>720202129
>we absolutely have the resources to make society better
The only reason is because we have a free market where production can be increased to meet demand based on the pricing system. The cubans, venezuelans and soviets have millions of people to feed but their demand can't be met by production due to central planning.

>>720202512
I guess the moral thing is to actively try to make things worse. Which is what you think I'm already doing anyway! So I'll just keep on doing what I do.
>>720202569
You're literally agreeing with me again lol

>>720202858
No, I'm not. You're a kid yelling that it's due to "selfishness" when in reality it's due to many factors.

>>720202849
Giant multinational corporations are already centrally planned.

>>720202914
Right, you're in the midsection of the bell curve, I'm on the right

>>720203059
>claims that everything can be magically solved by following the theories found in a book that has never once worked
>claims that they don't work because everyone else is a selfish evil poopoo face
Fuck off. Your rethoric is the equivalent of a 5-year old screaming until the other person gets annoyed and leaves.

>>720203230
>claims that everything
true why wouldn't it you solve hunger people will become better men. so that's what we MUST do (first few years will be brutal though.)
>claims that they don't work because everyone else is a selfish evil poopoo face
True.

>>720203230
I believe you'll find that I claimed neither of those things. My actual argument isn't complex, and I know this isn't a simple misunderstanding. You're deliberately misrepresenting me because you're more comfortable arguing with a stereotype in your head than with the actual person in front of you. After all, you've already won the argument in your head many times, haven't you?

>>720185269 (OP)
Only poorfags think capitalism is bad. And only richfags think it's good. 1% of the population is rich. 99% are poor.

Wow eating soi slop, bugs and fucking 100 year old trannies is sooooo cool!!! It's not a dystopia at all!

>>720203476
the 90% that has two cars, a 60 inch tv, a flagship smartphone, leather furniture, a $1000 coffee maker, a 150m2 house and a nice ass neighbourhood to listen to birds chirping in with their well fed 6ft 130 iq aryan children
>we need a centrally planned economy and we need it right fricking now.

Death to all commies, simple as.

>>720203357
>>720202351
yo?

>>720203668
A plywood shack isn't a real house. If the majority of homes in your country aren't made from bricks you're living in the third world. Sorry I don't make the rules.

>>720202714
>It's easy to imagine a better world. It's easy to imagine a fairer distribution of resources
>You immediately started ranting about the USSR and ideal communism
Kek, that's exactly what I'm talking about, it's easy to imagine whatever you want, but when you try to put your imagination into reality, things get ugly, the USSR is a example of that.

>This is literally not true for everyone
True but you're being pedantic, get any random sample of 100 employed and 100 unemployed people and guess which will have a higher chance of not being homeless.

>joblessness is an inherent feature of capitalism
How does free trade between willing parties imply joblessness will always be a outcome? Some people will always be unemployed for any number of reasons, yes, but that goes for any system.

>You are trying to recast systemic failures as individual moral failures in an attempt to imply that I'm just a lazy layabout who wants hand-outs
When did I say you're a lazy bum who doesn't want to work? Stop projecting your insecurities in my words, bud.

>rather than someone who is keenly aware of the many injustices perpetrated against people all over the world
There it is again, more optics lmao

>>720200191
Youre dodging the question
Tell us how, if its so easy you can definitely abstract it in a paragraph
Oh wait, you cant because youre a retarded little cuckold doing whatever a jew told you to do

>>720203668
Damn capitalist simps are really out of touch

>>720203008
They're not, get a job, nigga. A McDonald's manager doesn't need approval from the McDonald's HQ to buy more bread or cheese if they need it.

>>720203787
what
people will magically reach out for all three volumes of Capital during a severe economic downturn and this time we'll have a bloody revolution that kills 60% of the population. most people will be too occupied with their sorrow and severe depression so they won't care that we're slowly eroding all of their rights and installing a totalitarian dictatorship

>>720203357
>first few years will be brutal though
Stalin smilled in his grave reading this post.

>>720202129
You cant have more than 40IQ

>>720200191
>what is overpopulation
>what is infrastructure costs
>what is triple digit IQ
Why are retards always so convinced they know things.

>>720203885
>it's easy to imagine whatever you want
Exactly. You know as well as I do that our current system is unfair, and this unfairness is maintained by a handful of people.
>True but you're being pedantic
Oh, now it's suddenly not the time for pedantry?
>get any random sample of 100 employed and 100 unemployed people and guess which will have a higher chance of not being homeless.
Yes, but that wasn't even the point; you said people can get a job at McDonald's and rent a room together with others. That you present this as a great solution rather than yet another indictment of capitalism is telling.
>How does free trade between willing parties imply joblessness will always be a outcome?
Capitalism needs the threat of joblessness to maintain competition between workers. There is a scarcity of paid work relative to the working population, and despite this, the system tells us working is a condition for being allowed to live.
>When did I say you're a lazy bum who doesn't want to work?
You were definitely going there with your "just put in the effort!" narrative but I guess I pre-empted you actually saying it.
>There it is again, more optics
I can't help it that I look good compared to you.

>>720203902
>Tell us how, if its so easy you can definitely abstract it in a paragraph
I have
>you cant because youre a retarded little cuckold doing whatever a jew told you to do
t. wagecuck lmao
Not a hint of self-awareness

>>720199420
Feudalism wasn't deposed in a day, retard.

Reminder that niggers are able to afford phones and shoes. You literally can't suffer in America as a wagie.

>>720204252
>what is overpopulation
A myth
>what is infrastructure costs
A problem regardless
>what is triple digit IQ
Something you'll never know

>>720204265
You quite literally said to think about the solution later.
Your claims are full of shit because YOU are full of shit, if you dont want to do the thinking then you have no place lecturing people
>oohhh laaaawd look how awful the world is
>btw please me give me unfettered power to exact revanchism
Your kind is always the same, useful idiots for actual communists (slavers)

>>720204350
Damn... even shoes?!? Thank you capitalism!

People see shit like "nestle buying up the sole source of water in a region and then charging the poor locals loads of money to buy their trademarked bottled water" and think there's nothing wrong going on.

>>720201161
>victims of capitalism
These things happened in 18th and 19th century.
Meanwhile, a lot of that shit (and worse) happened in 20th century commie countries. Let me give you an anecdote from my eastern european shithole (from the late 80s):
>dad is a miner in a mining city
>dudes die around 50-60 years of age, coughing up black shit out of their lungs since their late 20s
>this is considered a fact of life
>they mine shit mostly without any protection
>be 11, talking with my dad about my future
>want to be a miner like him (and all my friends' dads), obviously
>tell him
>he says nothing, instead stands up and tells me to follow him
>he goes to the bathroom
>without a single word, he fills up the entire bathtub with water
>"Listen anon. Either you choose a different job, or I will drown you right here."
>pick a different job, spend years trying to get away and still nearly failing
>most of my peers who stayed there are already dead
>so is my father
Thank you, dad.
So yes, there are certainly some awful things capitalism did. What you are advocating, though, is to return to these things, because that's what inevitably happens with communism.

>>720204385
>x is problem
>my solution is to make it ten times worse
lmao commies

>>720204460
>You quite literally said to think about the solution later.
Yes, Anon. Like I said: I am a single person shitposting on a Chinese girl cartoon board. I do not need a viable plan of action just to voice criticism of the system. That's a complete deflection. Besides, I don't need to be able to figure it all out personally, because I know there are people qualified to do this. You're being disingenuous on two fronts by demanding I give you a detailed plan of exactly how I would personally fix the economy if I were Chairman of the World or I forfeit the right to suggest we could improve society somewhat.

>>720204889
>These things happened in 18th and 19th century.
And 20th... and 21st...

>>720204069
ok but if redistribution of wealth just means putting the proverbial bullet into every second face why shouldn't the people who currently have wealth (doesn't really matter how much as long as they'd lose out) choose the side which puts them into the faces >>over there<<
how is a popular uprising going to happen without popular support?

>>720204328
No, you didnt, you ranted about things with no objective goal and plan, you just went on and on about what things should be but not how
Youre quite literally full of shit and dont have enough IQ to even discuss this subject without being laughed out of a room
Its no wonder why your kind is always social science majors and not engineers :^)
Pro tip, pretending you dont hate the working class is not working

>>720205035
Yeah, in China.

>>720204580
you dont need shoes

>>720204979
>no i dont need to think about it, someone else will
Lmao, cuck
Thats how i know would be one of the first ones executed, because youre retarded
>improve society
>by giving power to people who dont even plan 5 minutes ahead
Your initial claim was that anyone sane can think of something better whitin 5 minutes, weve been at this for way longer than 5 yet you still have to put into words how to make things better, instead all you did was rant about things and complaining that people are calling you out on your bullshit
Youre quite literally retarded

>>720204889
>>"Listen anon. Either you choose a different job, or I will drown you right here."
damn what a pussy he should have had had't let his son do whatever he had wanted to
>>720205047
>ok but if redistribution of wealth just means putting the proverbial bullet into every second face why shouldn't the people who currently have wealth (doesn't really matter how much as long as they'd lose out) choose the side which puts them into the faces >>over there<<
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLTl9Im73Bo
>how is a popular uprising going to happen without popular support?
rush nuclear bombs and threaten to drop them until your vanguard party takes all of the power

>>720205092
Coca cola death squads in Colombia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinaltrainal_v._Coca-Cola_Co.
Dole using pesticides that left the plantation workers sterile.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/mar/20/a-deliberate-poisoning-how-a-banned-pesticide-haunts-the-french-caribbean-chlordecone-guadeloupe-martinique
There are a lot of similar stories.

Political just means "is it a critique of capitalism" and the answer is always yes to the soda brained midwit community

>>720204265
>You know as well as I do that our current system is unfair
It is unfair, nobody said it was but the average joe has more quality of life in our system than any other system that was ever put in practice, and it's by far the fairest system, it would be retarded to change what we currently have now for a communist utopia that only exists in books and can never be implement because of the economic calculation issue.

>you said people can get a job at McDonald's and rent a room together with others
I presented this as a solution for homelessness that already exists and anyone can do it, and even presented another solution that is proven to work in the real world, which is the laxing of zoning laws and building regulations, that you conveniently ignored.

>That you present this as a great solution rather than yet another indictment of capitalism is telling
Again another attempt of paiting me as a corporate shill instead of looking at the facts.

>Capitalism needs the threat of joblessness to maintain competition between workers
You treat capitalism as a centralized force of conspirators instead of of what actually is, you took the Marx kool aid and are repeating it without even realizing what any of it means.

>You were definitely going there with your "just put in the effort!"
That's another way of saying the average person can work any menial job and still afford a apartment, you're projecting your insecurities on my words once again.

>I can't help it that I look good compared to you.
I'm starting to think you're baiting, there's no way you're that self absorbed.

The issue in this whole debate is that you comparing the real world to the communist utopia lefty authors wrote when in reality none of it actually worked in the past, and while what we have isn't perfect, it can keep a nation going for more than 50 years without shitting itself apart with massive famines and political takeovers. Also, this anon is correct >>720204460.

>>720205323
you're circling
for that, you'd first need to reach a certain percentage of HIGHLY motivated co-conspirators
and you are not getting that percentage by going
>fun's over, all your shit will now be going OVER THERE, you will (maybe) get a better world through this in... *checks notes* a few generations
you will never mobilize the people you would need to mobilize to even begin thinking about what you're thinking about.

>>720201161
>Prior to the New Deal children worked in factories for 16 hours a day
No they didn't, what the fuck are you talking about?

Most child labor was done in farms and even those were done in a time where there was literally no schools for children to go in their area, and once the parents had the option, they migrated to the big cities and their children stopped working.

Was there child labor in factories? Sure, very early on and was basically over by the time the New Deal rolled round, even then, they worked less hours than an adult.

Children are better off today than back then but you paint a absolute dystopia for the purposes of pushing a narrative.

>>720205071
Acknowledging that things could be better is the first step. And it's easy to see how: we have the resources, and just a handful of people is appropriating them for their own gain.
>>720205293
>Your initial claim was that anyone sane can think of something better whitin 5 minutes
Yes, and I have, obviously. Give people what they need. It really is that simple.
>B-but what about the logistics... what about if billionaires don't want to cooperate
Yes, these are practical details that need to be worked out, but that wasn't my point. My point is simply that you can't go a fucking day under capitalism without encountering something that will make you say "wouldn't it be so much better if we just did X"
And I know /v/ is no stranger to it because day 1 DLC, pre-order bonuses, always online single-player, exclusives, a dozen different digital store fronts - these are all things that stem directly from the profit incentive and that any imbecile can see aren't good for anyone except shareholders. That's how easy it is to imagine a better society. And I don't need to be a fucking programmer to tell you that.

>>720205629
Instead of deflecting about a "communist utopia" how about we just make society fairer?
>I presented this as a solution for homelessness that already exists and anyone can do it
And I pointed out that's false.
>and even presented another solution that is proven to work in the real world, which is the laxing of zoning laws and building regulations, that you conveniently ignored.
Yes, all right, let's house people in unsafe conditions, at least they'll have the privilege of paying exorbitant rents for it
>Again another attempt of paiting me as a corporate shill instead of looking at the facts.
You act like you're being objective but whilst "a McDonald's worker can rent an apartment if he has roommates" is technically true, it's also continuously moving the goalposts. "Yes, you can *technically* get a roof over your head, but you have to give up privacy and allow yourself to be exploited. So don't bitch about it!" And it looks like we can add unsafe conditions to that list now. Hey, at least it's a house! Don't bitch about it! What happened to basic human dignity? How many shreds of dignity must we still turn over before you say it's enough?
>You treat capitalism as a centralized force of conspirators
Not at all, that's a strawman. YOU are repeating anti-communist claptrap without even realising what any of it means.
>That's another way of saying the average person can work any menial job and still afford a apartment
Definitely not true in many places

>>720206254
Any fucking idiot can acknowledge things can be better, literally EVERYONE here has done so, youre the only one who insists that merely doing just that is enough and that planning and thinking is not a problem for us
>but what about billionaires not wanting to cooperate
Those are not even a factor in the discussion, you quite literally a willfully ignoring the big problems in favor of just saying "yeah but who cares we can just make shit better" and when people ask you how you clam up and cant answer it
Fucking clown

>>720207302
>literally EVERYONE here has done so
No, you haven't. Instead, if I so much as suggest that things could be better, you all scramble to tell me that any possible alternative would be infinitely worse and this is the fairest of all possible worlds and I should study the history of the USSR and also what about logistical issues (that currently already exist) etc. etc. etc.
>when people ask you how you clam up and cant answer it
I have answered this several times. You just don't like the answer. It really is very simple. I first need you to acknowledge that we can provide for everyone, and that a few people are preventing this. If you won't even admit that, then whatever I say next doesn't matter, now does it?

So let's start small. Would you rather have day one exclusive pre-order DLC, or all video games are free forever?

After replaying the game and going through some of the quests, jesus christ the dialogue is fucking awful in some parts. (aka almost anything to do with Panam) I'm genuinely surprised nobody has a shit fit over how fucking "millennial writing" it fucking is.

>>720206793
>how about we just make society fairer
How will you do that without making things unfair for another?
Youre naive and retarded, but i know better, your kind is malicious and believes that seeming harmless and stupid will provide cover for your intent of centralizing power on yourself

>>720195203
yeah, art was totally banned in the USSR, that's why there's no statues or portraits of their leaders

>>720185269 (OP)
Wouldn't know. I didn't pay this broken lying pos game.

>>720207589
Because we all are operating on the assumption that you have gone past acknowledging and went into how to
But unfortunately youre a retarded little shit with no foresight or planning and even smaller library of knowledge
>we can provide for everyone
>you refuse to acknowledge this
Genuine retardation, thats what you profuse with every single one of your posts
Go ahead and try to violate basic thermodynamics while youre at it too

>>720207745
>How will you do that without making things unfair for another?
Fairness isn't pie. You don't make things fairer by making it less unfair for another. Of course, there will be people who are used to privilege who will complain that it's unfair to have their privilege taken away, but that's not the same thing.
>your kind is malicious and believes that seeming harmless and stupid will provide cover for your intent of centralizing power on yourself
Ill doers are ill deemers

>>720207948
Tetris wouldnt have existed under the soviet union, or more specifically,it would never have become popular
>but it was made in the soviet union
And its creator sold it in America because it would have just been discarded by the party

>>720208037
>fairness is infite and you can just be fair to everyone with never making a slight to anyone
If you genuinely believe this i have a bridge to sell you, ya room temperature IQ loser

>>720208016
>Because we all are operating on the assumption that you have gone past acknowledging and went into how to
I have, but you haven't. If we are in disagreement on the fundamental premise that society can be better than it currently is, then what's the point in me trying to ignore this disagreement? Indeed, how's it going for you, trying to argue with points I haven't made as if we've already come to some fundamental understanding that is, in fact, lacking?
>Go ahead and try to violate basic thermodynamics while youre at it too
See? You act like the current state of affairs is as inviolable a law of nature as thermodynamics, instead of the product of human action.

>>720206793
Nigga you're once again comparing reality with a imaginative utopia, and when it's not that you go for optics, this is enough evidence to anyone reading communism is stupid and it's been spreaded by dumb people.

I feel like I'm arguing with a retard or 5 year old and no longer feel like wasting time, so bye.

>>720208037
>i will be unfair to people but i will just call it "removal of priviliges"
Knowing your kind, you will use that for anything even when you know people dont have those priviliges

>>720208179
Fairness is infinite, yes. You're doing exactly what I said you would. You think another person's fairness can infringe on yours because you think your privilege is fair.

>>720206254
>just a handful of people is appropriating them for their own gain.
again, this is pure fantasy, the middle class takes up around a third of the global population, this middle class would need to cut back their consumption of almost all goods drastically, to support a global socialist remake
>just force them
how? are you going to crusade from africa to london/ny?
>can't go a fucking day under capitalism without encountering something that will make you say "wouldn't it be so much better if we just did X"
there are people who not only say that, but who also actually go and change it so we do X or at least something X adjacent
you brought up one of the best examples yourself: unions
they do this while living under capitalism, mind you

>>720208218
>Nigga you're once again comparing reality with a imaginative utopia
I.e. I am pointing out things could be better. What is the alternative? To state the way things are and reiterate that it is good? Like you're doing?
>this is enough evidence to anyone reading communism is stupid and it's been spreaded by dumb people.
But Anon, I already told you before, if you think communism is stupid but we can agree that society could be improved, then why don't we just improve society in the ways we can agree on?
>No that's communism!

>>720208398
Ah, here we go, peak capitalist apologism: ackchually, unions are a feature of capitalism!
But if we had one big union you wouldn't be such a happy capitalist any more, would you?

>>720208398
Not that guy but what happens when the X or the X adjacent thing is labelled as communism and disregarded?

>>720208212
>i have
Lmao, no you havent, you quite literally have said to leave the thinking of how to others
>bbbut i can just get a specialist to do those
How will you convince said specialist to do what you want? Will you just throw a speech about fairness like youre a toddler? What will you do when your ideas get shot down by people that know better?
Oh right, force them to do it at gunpoint, the inevitable path of the "do gooder" that only has his own interests at heart

If you dont have a sound plan to convince people to actually support you then you wont last a day trying to implement anything

>>720208516
>unions are a feature of capitalism!
he quotes, from thin air
as you rightly pointed out they are a feature of communism
and we still somehow, someway, have them under capitalism
with some countries actually getting stronger in that department
>But if we had one big union you wouldn't be such a happy capitalist any more, would you?
i am never a happy capitalist, but yes, i would indeed be an unhappy camper as this would mean concentration of power into a single entity which historically leads to disaster after disaster

>>720208643
>you quite literally have said to leave the thinking of how to others
So your alternative is to breed a society of Übermenschen who are preternaturally skilled at everything, or what? Yes, we can in fact only create a complex society through specialisation.
>How will you convince said specialist to do what you want?
And again we arrive at exactly the problem. "Yes, obviously society can be better, but some people* just don't want it to". Again: it really is that simple, isn't it?
>What will you do when your ideas get shot down by people that know better?
As if that's you? Show me your doctorate in logistics or forfeit your right to comment. You're not allowed to defer to anyone's expertise to call me stupid, here.

*i.e., you, but it's easier for you to waive your moral responsibility by being vague and general

>>720208917
>and we still somehow, someway, have them under capitalism
Not without a lot of pushback and bloodshed. Capitalists didn't just go "oh those unions commies are talking about sound like a good idea", they had to be forced to allow unions. Even nowadays even thinking of unionizing is treated very harshly by corporations. Unions in modern media are either mob-infested shitholes or they do other bad shit like smuggle drugs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_union_busting_in_the_United_States

>>720185269 (OP)
yes, its a clear message against ultra liberalism.

>>720185648
retard

>>720208603
as long as it's just disregarded, the people championing it are probably doing a shit job
and if they start supressing, popular support for the supressed soon follows
this is also why you can't really 'force' such a break in social order
the ground needs to be extremely fertile for such ideas through general discontentment beforehand
>>720209252
>Not without a lot of pushback and bloodshed.
exactly, and as outlined above, the environment/tension for such a confrontation simply isn't there (yet)
at least in the places where it would count
agreed on the rest but you are talking as if it was a foregone conclusion that things will only ever move in the wrong direction without a major upset and i don't think that thesis holds

>>720209940
>the environment/tension for such a confrontation simply isn't there (yet)
I read somewhere that Amazon is/was promoting diversity in the workplace because it leads to a fractured workforce which benefits the company (if the blacks won't do it then the mexicans will etc)

>>720210210
That somewhere is probably /v/
Of course, the solution to that is radical solidarity.

>>720193021
cuckson is literally on twitter seething about evil pflumpf right now

>>720185648
>whoah you like, don't want corporations to rape farmers of their resources, force people out of their homes and create a slave working class that subsists on a pittance of pay to live in a literal shipping container?
>fucking commie faggot!

why are americans like this? you cucks have been brainwashed by corporations to let ((them)) fuck you in the ass and cum in your mouth and thank them for the opportunity. actual braindead retards. capitalism is all well and good but Cyberpunk is a cautionary tale of unchecked corporatism, a future that is readily possible for America and the west; and something you guys especially are accelerating towards.

>>720210491
You're right, he might as well be a card-carrying Bolshevik

One of the worst consequences of allowing shitskins internet access is being bombarded by their retarded views on politics and religion.

>>720210670
why are you talking to yourself?

>>720194535
Cyberpunk as genre fiction is the final end state of the punk mindset. Punk, at its core, is a subculture defined by anger and bitterness, a lingering feeling that optimistic ideologies have all failed. Cyberpunk is the dead end of this assumption, a world where all belief, all hope, all chances of changing course are dead, and all that's left is an entropic spiral of industrialization and dehumanization. Cyberpunk is pro nothing because it does not believe anything can be fixed anymore.

>>720210842
Yeah, reading American takes on politics is always pretty shit

>>720211079
Don't forget to add the fear of Asians/Japan. The whole look of "skyscrapers blotting out the sun in the slums" is inspired by Kowloon Walled City and Tokyo.

>>720208331
LMAO
Youre doing exactly what i thought you would, pretend that you can excuse unfairness with "privilige" despite we both knowing youll abuse it, just so you dont have to admit you cant make decisions without upsetting someone
Btw, its not about "the priviliged billionaires"
At one point the most priviliged one will be you, and of course you wont let that be removed
Two farmers both in the same shitshow and you will not be able to provide fairness to one without being unfair to another
Youre a dishonest scumbag

>>720208947
>retarded bullshit about eugenics because youre too stupid to think about shit and wants others to do it for you
As expected of your bootlicking brain
>being vague
Says the guy who just goes around saying "WE CAN BE BETTER? HOW? I DONT KNOW, DONT ASK ME ABOUT IT"

>>720212459
>pretend that you can excuse unfairness with "privilige" despite we both knowing youll abuse it
So you're going to criticise me for something I might hypothetically do, and that's why I can't want to improve society? Don't project your shortcomings onto me.
>just so you dont have to admit you cant make decisions without upsetting someone
Ah, but it wasn't about avoiding upset, now was it? It was about avoiding unfairness.
>>720212634
>retarded bullshit about eugenics
Yes, it is pretty retarded - that's why I suggest instead what I said before, that people specialise in certain fields so that not everyone has to be an expert on everything
>I DONT KNOW, DONT ASK ME ABOUT IT
But I do know, and you're welcome to ask me about it; but you're arguing in bad faith by insisting I solve every problem here and now with a foolproof plan.

>political discourse
>look inside
>it's just economic discourse

>>720199936
>HERP DERP POLITICAL THEMES ARE THE SAME AS POLITICAL PROPAGANDA

>>720212459
>>720212912
Forgot to add:
A situation that is unfair to someone is by definition not fair. Your entire argument against fairness is to assume I don't really mean fairness when I say fairness, and now somehow you are the champion of fairness despite explicitly wanting to maintain an unfair society.

>>720213595
The thing is that what you consider "political propaganda" is barely even actually political (i.e. a black person exists) whereas what you consider a "political theme" is actually heavy-handed propaganda (i.e. allegiance to nations is a misguided ideal that causes people to fight each other despite their similarities)

>>720213652
>unfair by definition
You argued that fairness is infinite and already came up with retarded bullshit about how when you do have to be unfair it wont count "because nuh uh its no unfair when i do it"
You have the emotional maturity and rationale of a toddler
>champion of fairness
You were the one trying to champion yourself as a kind hippie champion of the people
You dont represent the people, you loathe and they loathe you back

>>720195727
>s-saaaar

>>720213890
>You argued that fairness is infinite and already came up with retarded bullshit about how when you do have to be unfair it wont count "because nuh uh its no unfair when i do it"
This level of flagrant misreading has to be intentional.
>You have the emotional maturity and rationale of a toddler
You are a bad faith hypocrite who is unable to keep up with simple arguments and will substitute whatever strawman he finds convenient.
>You were the one trying to champion yourself as a kind hippie champion of the people
>You dont represent the people, you loathe and they loathe you back
Case in point.