Thread 720477738

>GUESS WHAT? TURNS OUT EVERY SINGLE THING THAT HAPPENED, EVERY SINGLE CHOICE THAT EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER MADE, ALL THE REMAIFICATIONS OF SAID ACTIONS AND ALL OF THE NEAR INFINITE WAYS EACH CHARACTER REACTED TO THEM....IT WAS ALL PART OF THE BAD GUYS LE HECKIN MASTER PLAN!
God this is such a retarded twist. Makes the whole story pointless and is right up there with "it was all a dream!" This is what a stupid person thinks is smart.

there are just way too many variables for it to go all according to plan. horseshit

>>720477884
Exactly. Having some element of a character being manipulated is one thing, but EVERYTHING going according to the plan is retarded and makes no sense.

>>720477738 (OP)
Everything didn't go as planned, though. They didn't account for Solid Snake to show up, there's the Fatman thing. There are several instances in the game where Colonel reacts with bafflement at things Raiden tell him "That's not part of the simulation"

solidus was just going crazy from age acceleration. put grandpa down

has anybody been listening to the chapo guys new series where they talk about mgs? been fun

>>720480242
>chapo fag house
no

>>720477738 (OP)
another brainlet filtered lol

how come snake couldnt make fire with his wavedashes?

>games are largely written for a younger audience
>niggerfaggots like OP think they're clever for playing the game on emulator 20+ years too late and noticing plot holes
If you play a game for the story after the age of 18 you are a homosexual retard

>>720481773
your dad's a homosexual retard

>>720481773
I played this game the week it was released originally on a PS2 faggot.

>>720477738 (OP)
AI, I ain't gotta explain shit

all according to keikaku

>>720477738 (OP)
>This is what a stupid person thinks is smart.
You just summed up all of Kojima's writing.

>>720482065
same, and I didn't overthink the plot because I was a kid. You're going back in hindsight and critiquing it like a faggot, faggot.

>>720483230
Why were his movie-games heralded as huge achievements in storytelling in the gaming industry when the story is shit?

>>720480242
It's very shallow honestly. Has it's moments but it's mostly just rather basic plot analysis.

>>720477738 (OP)
Everything didn't go according to plan. Solid Snake's involvement and the Liquid shit was completely unexpected.

>>720477738 (OP)
I don't care there's a lot of memorable cool shit moment in 2 than the boring ass 3 with muh boss

>>720477884
>>720477987
Solid Snake's intervention wasn't part of the plan.

>>720477738 (OP)
>>720477884
>>720477987
samefag

THEY GOT MY EYES

>>720477738 (OP)
Nothing is more retarded than sinking an oil tanker to justify building a widely publicized decontamination plant that works but barely and then dump additional oil over the site in the months following by sending in or sinking an undisclosed number of additional tankers as a cover for MIC embezzlement.

and building a giant death robot under a densely populated maritime port that nobody notices.

What if gray fox chopped off ocelots cock then he'd have to use liquids cock and then he'd have to say "I live on, through this cock!" When he first appears in mgs2

The most believable part of MGS 2 is President Johnson grabbing Raiden's pussy

>>720486080
Kojimbo brilliance

>>720480242
it's pretty halfassed you can tell they just did a quick playthrough and watched some "MGS epic secrets" videos like they just keep calling vamp a vampire or refer the big boss rank as fox
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpA6TGkehSY

>>720485912
That's so ghetto

>>720486776
I know Felix is just a lazy dumbass but I really expected more out of Brendan.

>>720477884
That's why it was reffered to as an experiment
you know, a thing that can fail?
Pretty sure if Raiden died at any point the exercise would be a failure and Ocelot would be given the order to shoot Solidus and his gang in the head himself.

>>720487701
that's exactly what happens when you die as raiden you get the game over screen and you can hear rose getting killed by the patriots performing a sort of 'Garbage Collection' they kill sunny too.

The main plot twist I don't like (besides Fortune, she's a stupid character) is when Raiden is found out to be a trained child soldier directly taught by Solidus. Until then the whole thing is about the S3 program seems to be painting that Raiden is supposed to be (You)(which is also why it asks you for your name when you start) and this idea anyone could be Solid Snake with the right training. Seems to undermine that message since literally no one is a child soldier trained by Solidus.

>>720487701
>and Ocelot would be given the order to shoot Solidus
But I thought Ocelot was actually fighting for Big Boss and against the patriots who were the ones that were pulling the strings. Why would Ocelot obey them? He was also unaware of Olga as the ninja who was another agent for the patriots.

>>720489043
Ocelot wasn't written as hugely gay for Big Boss until 3 and 4. Prior to that he's just another Patriot pawn.

>>720489043
>He was also unaware of Olga as the ninja who was another agent
sure he was, that's percisely why he leaves her and Raiden alone in the torture room in hopes that they reenact Snake's original escape

>>720480242
The only really novel or interesting thing they've spoken about is Felix talking about Liquid/Eli's Britishness and him as a representation of a dead empire. I don't know what the fuck he means by that but I'm interested in it.

>>720488903
the s3 plan (from solidus pov solid snake simulation) is a fake the real one is the patriots selection for societal sanity it doesn't undermines the overall plot.

>>720485912
Retard

>>720486776
>they just keep calling vamp a vampire
isn't he one?

>>720491250
He is a cursed hell spawn? No. Does he have nano machines that simulate something similar, yes. He can be in the sun which is a big difference, for sure.

>>720491250
>>720491594
And actually Vamp might have been more fun of a character if he was weak to the sun. He's kind of just a plot device instead of a character with how he can't die, has no weakness, can dodge, bullets, fly a plane, and do whatever he wants whenever he wants.

>>720491594
I think the nanomachine thing is an mgs4 retcon, so in other words in 2 he is just a vampire, or like a vampire.

>>720492283
I'm pretty sure they talk about the nano machines in MGS2, but honestly it's been a while and I don't remember the specifics of the 50 hours of dialogue. Then again, they also have Fortune still block bullets even with her nano machine shield thing turned off which is just Kojimbo being dumb and fun with MUH LADY LUCK

>>720488353
>you can hear rose getting killed by the patriots
Where are you getting this from?

>>720492474
>they also have Fortune still block bullets even with her nano machine shield thing turned off which is just Kojimbo being dumb and fun with MUH LADY LUCK
I don't get people not understanding that the patriots just flicked her device back on. I mean The Patriots needed Raiden alive. Ocelot turns it off and then goes rogue, the patriots couldn't have that so they flip her thing back on?

Am I not right on that?

>>720492801
I mean yeah that does make sense, but it's also something that I'm quite sure is just glossed over and never brought up again? Does anyone even talk about Fortune in MGS4?

>>720484952
But i thought the patriots controlled everything?

>>720492801
I always saw that as a genuine miracle, something outside of the Patriots control, evidence of supernatural and human will overcoming the control and manipulations of technology and conspiracy. I mean they don't necessarily need Raiden alive right then, it's all a test to see how far he makes it and how much they can control.

>>720487701
>you know, a thing that can fail?
there is no "could fail" from a writing standpoint, it's as retarded as saying the odds of a character doing something are "a million to one" only to write them inevitably doing it anyway
the only "could fail" exists in an alternate dimension where the writers wrote it to fail

>>720492771
the japanese script points this out and in the game when you die as raiden and get the rose mission fail screen you can hear her gasp in all versions see video @2.38
https://youtu.be/xJkra3MFT1Y?t=157

>>720493697
I definitely think it's a more fun read of it that she did indeed just perform some supernatural miracle, but I've always seen it as the patriots interfering by switching it back on.
And they definitely did need him alive because they wanted to fulfill their mission with Raiden being the one to kill Solidus

>>720491250
>>720492283
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpA6TGkehSY

>>720485912
kek

>>720493949
Well if Ocelot kills them both at the same time with missiles I think that problem's kinda solved isn't it?

>>720493697
soulful reading

>>720492801
soulless reading

>>720477738 (OP)
>This is what a stupid person thinks is smart
You just summed up all of MGS

>>720494240
>I think that problem's kinda solved isn't it?
No, I think you're forgetting the whole point of the S3 plan.

>>720477738 (OP)
Kojima did my boy Solidus dirty in MGS4.
He's much funnier and cooler than Liquid Shart, and infinitely much better in every way than Fagcelot.

>>720493697
i feel like rose's role in the end also plays into that aspect

>>720494771
Explain it then, because this entire plot as I understand it is an experiment in controlling events and individuals. Meaning failure is possible as this is still just a test of the system before applying it to the entire world. Though I'm not sure how Raiden dying at this particular point along with the rest even constitutes a complete failure.

>>720483862
>>720486776
It's a bit disappointing how they ignore certain obvious things, like the surrealism of the ending, they take it at surface level as just a quirky thing about life moving on for New Yorkers. But a lot of people questioned if anything in the game was even real back in the day. Which I certainly don't think is what happens but I think you are supposed to question it.

Blizzard did it with the Jailer, /v/ seethes
Kojima did it with the Patriots, /v/ celebrates

>>720495576
I mean obviously they would want it to succeed and not fail, which is why they want Raiden alive. That is their big finale, what everything has lead to.

>>720494930
He was a dangerous terrorist and deserved his end.

>>720495743
Yeah I saw that as commentary on how people are so plugged into the system that even when absurd and reality breaking events happen in front of them they will find a way to ignore or rationalize it all away and continue with their day to day lives rather than examine it and seek the truth. That's Raiden's whole thing is ignoring and denying aspects of life he doesn't like and needing to move past that, seek truth like with Rose.

>>720494930
He has the most interesting and coherent ideology and motivation of any villain in the series. But he's kinda dull, not got the personality or pizazz of Liquid.

>>720477738 (OP)
I read all of that in his voice.

>>720477738 (OP)
>720477738
raiden I may be US pres and a clone with accreted age but I somehow in all that time, killed your daddy hahahahah

>>720477738 (OP)
>Snake joining in the plot
>Fortune actually having psychic power
>Ocelot getting possessed
The AIs were just saving faces

>>720477738 (OP)
>and is right up there with "it was all a dream!"
explain the size of the arsenal gear hangar then, its miles and miles of empty void and several ray models staring at you

>>720494930
has not one but two evil brothers
kill them off and use a gay russian dog

>>720486776
>>720487638
I think they entirely missed the fact that Solidus is not only mentioned by name as a third clone in the first game, but also that he's the president

>>720477738 (OP)
The funny thing about MGS is that it's supposed to be about soldiers rebelling against the war economy but by the end of it it's revealed that all world politics are basically run by Big Boss' acquaintances. Armstrong is basically the only time you get to fight the politicians who make the soldiers kill each other instead of a soldier who himself supplanted the politicians. Yes, Armstrong is doing it to bring it all to and end and create a new society where everyone fights for themselves, but the point stays that he's the first final boss who is not a disgruntled soldier.

>Start a new game
>Immediately prompted to create a custom character
Oh right, that's why it wasn't a fucking twist.

bumping for Solidus

>>720499920
I was surprised by how much Brendan hated Solidus being a clone. Never really bothered me before, didn't see the issue.

i hope the remakes keep coming so I can have the remake of mgs2 with restored arsenal gear crash

>>720477738 (OP)
>>720477987
I'm 99% sure the Colonel says that they made changes on the fly

>be solidus
>nothing more than a puppet for the la li lu le lo
>discover he is a slave (and so america)
>tries to free himself
>elaborates a mastermind plan
>the mastermind plan was actually the mastermind plan of the la li lu le lo
>dies doing the bid of his masters once again
sadge

>>720477738 (OP)
Solidus isn't the mastermind. He's just a retarded pawn, just like Liquid was. Ocelot / Patriots were the real masterminds. Solidus' plan was a complete failure from the start.

>>720484296
Yeah, something the games were really good at since Metal Gear 2 is creating a plethora of "scenarios". That's why these games felt so nicely paced, you were always thrown into new scenarios. MGS3 doesn't do this as well as the previous games, the gameplay is much more samey and doesn't have as many interesting, unique gameplay scenarios one after the other.

The real mastermind behind everything was YOU the player

>>720504374
no.

>>720496761
kekkers

>>720500192
sorry anon but there's no point in discussing fanfic

>>720477738 (OP)
>>720477884
You're retarded if you dont think the Patriots simply did not alter the plan if things did not go exactly how they wanted to them. Stop thinking so simply, simpletons.

>>720504531
YES

>>720493386
No, they ran the S3 plan to do so with events. The reason the patriots didn’t plan for Solid Snake to appear was because they didn’t know Liquid’s spirit (maybe?) was inhabiting Ocelot’s body and he was the one who called for Snake. This is how the Patriots got fooled later because they ran under the assumption Liquid had fully taken over later.

>>720504879
How did the patriots get fooled by that shit anyways?

>Ocelot decides to larp and tells everyone he's liquid now
>everyone just believes him

>>720506029
Originally he wasn't larping, he actually was possessed. Then he cut it off but decided to mindfuck himself into being Liquid anyway to keep up the trick.

>>720480242
I am, but it's fairly disappointing. I thought it'd be like five hours, but its just basic plot analysis and they're not even hitting everything that they should.

MGS2 one in particular. This is one of the most autistic games ever made. You would think it'd inspire way more conversation. Felix tends to half ass a ton of shit when he's on his own things.

>>720506029
Kojima made 4 as a fuck you and just purposely gave an explanation to things that didn't really need it. Ocelot being a roach who gets taken over by Liquid was fine as it is. No "HE ACTUALLY CHOPPED THE ARM OFF AFTER BUT CONVINCED HIMSELF HE WAS LIQUID"

>>720477738 (OP)
If it was part of his plan, then why did he lost?

>>720508353
Also part of the plan.

>>720481773
This. OP is a pseud that lacks enough self awareness to realize that this game was made for toddlers.

>>720485912
This is better than anything Kojima ever wrote for this fraud of a franchise, honestly

>>720508353
Trust the plan, two more weeks.

>>720500192
Rising was better than the rest of the games in a lot of aspects, but the Kojimadrone hivemind is not ready to discuss that yet.

>>720500192
The games are about individuals against the deep state which rules above even actual politicians. It's why there are two US presidents revealed in MGS2 to be beneath the Patriots in power and influence. The Patriots at that point represent the embodiment of the overall system that has grown beyond direct human control and which both politicians and soldiers are consumed by.

>>720508695
>IT'S TIME FOR JACK TO LET IT MEME
Yeah alright.

>>720508441
speaking of toddlers did you know kojima wanted to have a game mechanic during the emma underwater escort mission in which as soon as you got underwater emma would start bleeding then raiden would freak out and ask her if she's hurt but then emma awkwardly tells him it's just her blood period

>>720485912
LIQUID'S COCK?!

>>720506874
I was disappointed by how disinterested Brendan seemed to be on 2. I expected a lot more from him after listening to Blowback.

>>720485912
Farewell sausage.

>>720509656
i mean that is an actual thing that could happen if the it was that part of the month, i don't know why people say it like it would be so outlandish
>oh my heckin glob shes undergoing a biological process?!???
plus emma being on the rag would explain her shit attitude

How convenient, I just finished the game. I only have one question: What is the la-li-lu-le-lo? It was mentioned a few times including Colonel, but I never understood what it meant, other than it being related to the Patriots.

>>720477738 (OP)
Why do people act like MGS2 is so profound and revolutionary? It just repeated common cyberpunk talking points

>>720515830
It's a code word for the Patriots. It only makes sense in Japanese because those are sounds that don't exist in the Japanese language. That's why they mix up L and R all the time, as in "Did you Rike it?" It's meant to be an unpronounceable nonsense phrase to hide the real name of the organization.

>>720515830
The patriots had nanomachines in some important/key people. Every time one of these infected people would say "Patriots", the nanomachines would make them say la li lu le lo, in order to never spill the real name of the organization, it could also happen the other way around, some people would hear a word salad instead of "Patriots". It's basically there so (You), the player, can tell who is a Patriot's pawn, and a very low one at that.

>>720515747
Based clip, bro. MGS2 predicting modern internet culture before Reddit was even a fart in someone's brain. That bit where the AI starts spouting about controlling memes and digital information was basically Kojima screaming into a time tunnel at 2001. The Colonel’s meltdown still gives me chills. “Turn off the console” hits different when you realize we never actually turned it back on.

>Snake. Remember what De Gaulle said.
>The graveyards are full of indispensable men.
>Snake. You're all alone and surrounded by bad guys.
>Try to be careful and avoid getting into a fight whenever you can.

>>720494930
Fuk u Ocelot is based

>>720520482
Ocelot was cool before he became BB's loverboy, but Kojima had to go and invent homosexuality

>>720520084
I finished the game today and that whole speech was so on point with today's digital era that it was scary:
>talking about how the digital age is bringing a sea of junk and misinformation under the label of "freedom"
>censorship used as a tool to filter all that junk, but at the cost of being fed manipulated information for the benefit of a selected few

Don't have the time or writing skill to make your antagonists intelligent or cunning? Just have them say everything was part of their plan

>>720477884
Fatman was literally a filter, if Raiden died there the test would fail and they would have to go back to the drawing board and make other shit up
Most of the GW speech is it talking shit and trying to hype the patriots control over Raiden (who is VERY confused) in an attempt to demoralize him
Snake helps Raiden clear his head by saying that it doesnt matter what the Patriots say, Raiden has to be the one to find meaning in things and decide it for himself

>>720520750
There are optional ones that really hit too. There's one where Raiden speculates that all your internet friends are just bots I had never heard before until a recent playthrough.

YOU'RE A REAL EGOTISTICAL WOMAN

>>720500192
By mgs2 The Patriots have grown way beyond just the Big Boss Club and have already become the AI shitshow that doesnt have any humans in charge
Sigint, Paramedic and Zero were already dead, EVA was always useless and Ocelot being a founding member of the Patriots is such a stupid thing because no way they would think he would just play lapdog

Worst bossfights in MGS2 are Olga, Fortune and Rays

>>720523356
Olga and Rays are good though. Fortune is barely a fucking boss. All the absolute worst boss fights are in Peace Walker

>>720523980
>All the absolute worst boss fights are in Peace Walker
At least you can call those bosses, not the shitshow TPP has

>>720485912
At least genitals are directly related to passing on genes. You'd have to make sure it's the whole package, cock and floppy bits too.
>I live on through DEEZ NUTS

>>720485912
haha

>>720494154
Was waiting for this lol. It's a great joke

>>720494154
So what did Vamp know Snake from?

>>720494154
>double dipping

>>720477738 (OP)
That's not what happened. The whole incident is an exercise sure but the objective was to stress test the AI's capability to handle the situation. Olga and Ocelot were wardens to make sure nothing goes too terribly wrong, while everyone else was actually free to do what they saw fit. Fatman for example would've just ended the whole thing if Raiden failed to take him down.

>>720500192
*blocks your path*

>>720492474
ofc he was a magical fucking vampire that can be in the sun and run on water

>>720506810
>he actually was possessed
you enjoy sucking cock

>>720508695
riden gets everything at the end of 4
nono he now must be a edgy nero and say gay shit, look like a tranny and yeah theres some cool jrock omg so cool

MGS4 > MGS3 > MGS1 > MGS2 > MGSV

>>720525790
>Psycho Mantis is okay
>Ocelot getting possessed is a bridge too far

>>720525790
He's right. He was possessed in MGS2 but not in 4.

>>720526031
Why does /v/ love Psycho Mantis but hate asexual guys that post here IRL?
:<

>I LIVE ON THROUGH THIS ARM
Fuck Kojima.

>>720526423
Why didn't he bring him back as just a cyborg or nanomachines something

>>720526845
He probably thought that Ocelot losing his arm and Liquid being dead made it convenient for Ocelot to get his arm back. Only to make it more contrived by having to invent The Sorrow to explain reviving Liquid's spirit and ultimately retcon it because it was a stupid idea to begin with.

>>720521704
Not that anon but the part of the monologue with Raiden being chosen as one who denies the truth and is the player surrogate is a deft way of using a game's escapism element to actually mean something while still providing escapism and the ending still provides Rose and Snake's own advice of finding your own truth as other ways of enjoying escapism while still craving depth in storytelling. It doesn't talk down and has only the villains talk down to you as a way of increasing their menace/appearance of competence and putting heat on them for the player to hate. Much better than modern antagonists.
I also think that alongside "meme" being the theme of the game "beLIEve" could also sum up the entire game. A kino line. The A.I. also saying that whoever wins it gets what it wants also shows how these threats appear futile and above our comprehension/capabilities but Snake provides the answer. Seek the truth and keep seeking. Tomokazu Fukushima, whatever he wrote, should get a buncha credit alongside Kojima. Wish we knew more about the involvement and credit.

>>720494930
Literally discount big boss, how come kojimbo can't invent new rivals, just putting in discount versions of older ones, like Liquid Ocelot

>>720493846
My brother in Christ the game over screen is part of the main story. The game tries multiple times to cut the mission and make Raiden accidentally kill himself.
The Patriots even state in the final cutscene that it does not matter if Raiden kills Solidus or not because both were in the same rat race with their own results for their S3 experiment.

>>720526006
That's wrong actually
2>4>1>3>5

>>720520742
Do not doubt La Creative Dad's vision. Trust the process.

2=5>4>1>3>PW

mgs2 without the soliton radar is just unfun