Thread 721140635

Some of you zoomoids don't know this, but hard games were invented in the arcades to steal childrens money and later on in consoles to artificially extend playtime. They are exclusively used for bad purposes, no game should ever be hard it's objectively bad game design.

Some of you retards with no coordination or critical thinking skills don't know this, but it's only bad game design if the damage dealt to the player is unavoidable. Anything you can avoid but still tank is a skill issue and you need to git gud.

>>721140635 (OP)
Just don't play hard games, bro, they're not making you. There's plenty of easyslop out there.

Why are people these days so afraid of any kind of challenge

>>721140635 (OP)
you gotta be careful anon most zoomies don't pick up on sarcasm in text form

>>721140635 (OP)
I don't mind hard games as long as most of your play time is engaging with that difficult mechanic. In hollow knight this is not the case the respawn points are so far from where you usually might die you'll spend 80% of your play time just going back to where you died. That just doesn't make the game fun.
Yeah it's an old man skill issue, but if there was closer spawn points I wouldn't have dropped the game after 12 hours.

>>721140635 (OP)
Stop playing video games immediately if all they are is something to be checked off a list. You're an actual drone going through the motions.

>>721141050
I'm building a machine that will instantly kill any zoomer the moment they type the words "artificial difficulty", before they can hit submit.

>>721141650
hey, i'm a person these days

>>721140635 (OP)
yeah I knew that, grandpa

>>721140635 (OP)

mention one game that is not challenging that is not a borefest

>>721142753
Soma

>>721142046
I'm probably older than you and I thought the "runbacks" (there's like two and they're maybe tens of seconds long) were good.
This is just a normal skill issue, don't make excuses.

Use the time to consider your approach and the mistakes you were making. It's fine if errors cost you something, they should.
Rise to the fucking challenge instead of being a little bitch who picks some trivial non-issue to blame on pussing out and refusing to play the game.

I'd have thought if you were older you wouldn't be such a little zoomer bitch about it.
You can also just admit it's too tough for you and quit, there's less shame in that than lying to yourself.
And there are many games made for children and women you could be playing, so there's nothing objectively wrong with a game being designed for people who welcome one which requires a little attention and focus. So don't pretend these are flaws.

(Assuming you're talking about Silksong, because fucking lol if you're actually talking about Hollow Knight which is like baby's first platformer aside from Godhome)

>>721140635 (OP)
I'm 40 with two kids, I have 2 hours per day on average for my own entertainment and not on every day I feel like playing video games. My reflexes are 50% of what they used to be and playing any RTS (my once favorite genre) I was easily destroying as a 20 year old now feels like a constant uphill battle.
I'm 36 hours into Silksong and I'm having a blast. The game is kicking my ass, but I get up and keep trying till I improve enough to overcome the current obstacle. When it clicks, it clicks, and what seemed like an impossible boss/area becomes a joyous rythm game and/or buttery smooth platforming.
If you are having problems with Silksong's difficulty, literally GET GUD by trying till you get it. If I can do it, anyone can. No excuses.

>>721143219
>new game releases
>it's a hard soulslike game
>devs put a feature where everytime you die, a soccer team comes to your house and rapes your wife and daughter
>people obviously hate it, why they fuck should they be cucked if they die in a videogame
>anon plays it with pleasure, with each death he can ponder about his mistakes, how he can improve and rise to the challenge while he watches his wife and daughter taking 5 dicks at once each
>anon enjoys it, he thinks whoever doesn't should git gud and learn to enjoy challenges and accept punishments
NTA, I liked Silksong and got every ending in 4 days, but the runbacks in this game are ass, anon, you can just admit it. Even fast and easy runbacks like the Carmelia one are pretty fucking retarded time wasting bullshit. The boss being hard or easy has absolutely nothing to do with the devs forcing you to jump around the entire fucking arena to enter through the far side after walking 5 seconds of pure nothing just for the sake of giving you the middle finger.

>>721144316
I kinda skimmed over your zoomer rape fantasy but this is about thinking game should cater to you so you never have to adapt to any friction, right?

Just download a teleportation mod if you can't nut up

this game is such a spectacle of a design failure compared to the first game
>Literally every other enemy is a flying enemy
>Paths that frequently go nowhere for a shitty low amount of rosary

>>721144484
It's about "friction" having nothing to do with the difficulty of a game and being a bad thing in this specific case where it's literal time wasting bullshit as punishment because the bosses aren't even that hard and if you could spam the bosses quickly everyone would realise that and the game would lose value, you fucking illiterate retard. Making your game shit and forcing people to mod your game to fix your imbecile systems don't make your game interesting.

>>721144663
Agreed. Worst part is the contrived lore explanations ppl come up with:
>double dmg
“Hornet’s basically a pilgrim, it’s lore accurate!”
>broke af until citadel unless you farm
“See, citadel makes pilgrims poor! Such good storytelling! You have to steal from other pilgrims!”
>gauntlets with too many waves, bosses summoning minions too much
“Hornet’s a hunter, so that’s how it works! Git gud with her move set and tools! And if you run out of shards and have to farm, that’s also lore accurate!”
>map is huge so benches/stations being few in between/far away from bosses or each other is a much worse problem than in hollow knight
“Team Cherry didn’t want to put “game save points”, they wanted to place benches and stations where they’d be consistent with the story! Why aren’t you appreciating this?”
>the entirety of bilewater
“The area is supposed to be frustrating because of the citadel polluting it! I love Team Cherry, they excel at environmental storytelling!”

Seeing people go full masochist for this game’s bad design was something I never expected. It genuinely seems as though Team Cherry put lore before combat and overall gameplay. And boy, do people suck it up. All of the greentext are explanations I’ve seen either here or elsewhere on the many bad design choices and balancing problems of the game.

>>721145463
I haven't finished hk, but this convinced me not to even try SS. That just sounds like a list of some of my issues I already have with HK just made worse

I only get satisfaction from video games when I conquer something that normies get filtered by. Would that be some a game mechanic, an obscure puzzle or a difficult boss fight, the dopamine from being better than those people is what I'm after.

>>721145780
Hk’s a fine game. It’s far more balanced than skong and there’s actual rewards for beating bosses/difficult platforming/gauntlets. Skong has none of those, rewards are in bumfuck nowhere on the (larger than hk) map or locked behind contrived af fetch quests. You can easily stock up on masks in Hk/ get lifeblood boosts, while in skong you need to wait until 40-50% of the game for, get this, paid lifeblood, and masks shards might as well be diamonds.

Hk’s economy isn’t braindead either, and the combat’s simplicity is a strength as there’s less complex enemies or bosses for the majority of the game making gameplay less tiring and easy to tune to your personal style. Skong just says “oh hornet’s an acrobat, here’s a supposedly fodder enemy right outside bench who can charge, dodge, parry and has more hit points than you, git gud”. And the flying enemies, oh god. Hk has mostly static/slow moving ones while skong has tactical maneuvering “casually goes outside your dash attack range” SAS motherfuckers shooting heat seeking projectiles.

>>721144316
>having to walk for 30 seconds is as bad as having your family raped
Let me guess zoomie, if a teacher ever forgot to give you a participation trophy juat for showing up in class, he was clearly molesting you and had to be fired? Do you ponder suicide whenever someone forgets your pronouns? Is anyone more conservative than you a literal nazi?

>>721140635 (OP)
The hardest games didn't even do well at the arcades.
People didn't like to spend money only to instantly fail.

>>721144491
>>Literally every other enemy is a flying enemy
Dash, run, jamp, dash, jump, slash.
Alternatively
Clawline or a tool

>>721146543
>flying enemies
Made a total joke by tools, clawline and double jump. You are supposed to use your abilities
>bad economy
There is a starting area whwre you can get hundreds of rosaries in 15 minutes and a similar area in the Citadel where you get thousands. By the last 30% of the game I was swimming in money I could only spend on shards.
It's one thing to say that the game is too hard for you, but calling it bad or badly deaigned just because you are not good enough is pathetic. No game is for everyone.

Millenials were always casuals

They played game with no challenge like jrpgs
They savescummed
They used cheats

They would say “Omg Diablo is my favourite game” then never get past the Butcher

Zoomers were molded by survival games, battle royale with only one winner and 99 losers, games like elden ring
A millenial will celebrate walking simulators with “emotional” writing like Gone home, Red Dead Redemption 2 or Silent Hill 2 - meanwhile toomers only play games for the highest level of challenge

>>721147245
I'm a millennial and I grew up playing stuff like megaman, or platformers like donkey long or mario that would have you restart from the beginning if you ran out of lives.

>>721140635 (OP)
Between fetch quests or kill x enemies, shards farming and unfairness, my theory is that devs were insecure about the whole hype that piled up and felt like they had to do everything they could to pad the game otherwise we'd just blame them big time for a short game that still took seven years to make.

>>721145463
In a way I understand them, many players thought game's would be the be-all and end-all because of its hype, they can't fathom the idea that it could be even flawed, let alone badly designed.

>>721147151
I personally didn’t find it difficult, only tedious, and my comments were specific to the hk player anon. But it’s one thing when in interviews Team Cherry wants Silksong to be beginner friendly and a better starting point for noobs, but in practice a noob is better off playing hollow knight so as to not deal with double dmg bosses, complex enemies and lava in the first areas after moss grotto, and put down the game entirely. I’ve seen a lot of this in the past two weeks, and as you said the game is definitely not for everyone, and certainly not a “game for noobs” in general, even if some beginner players manage to lock in easily

>>721143219
>I'm probably older than you and I thought the "runbacks" (there's like two and they're maybe tens of seconds long) were good.
>This is just a normal skill issue, don't make excuses.
Not him, and not an excuse. Silksong is easier than Nine Sols when it comes to boss fights. Why? Because the devs had to consider runbacks into the equation. So you get to repeat a section you already mastered and you also fight a boss that is easier than it could've been. You are getting objectively worse experience by having runbacks, unless you have assburgers and love to repeat the same section after dying.

>>721147489
It could be that.
My theory is still that they wanted excuses to guide players into the many areas of the world that they had created.

Ignoring shard farming though. Because I really don't see how shard farming is even a thing unless you use tools absolutely constantly and or avoid killing enemies. You get like 20~30~ shards a screen. Even if you use a few tools every screen you'll still get a net positive.

>>721140635 (OP)
this but unironically

>>721147791
It’s sunk cost fallacy (7 years of development) for a game that probably started as a sequel DLC to hollow knight (hence the difficulty) and then the devs forgot to tune down things. The game has been playtested by like 3 people before release and could use some balance patches.

>>721147820
This is a crucial point. Reminds me of South Park games where characters replenish HP and mana after each fight, as a result every fight in the game could afford to be lethal and tense, it was great.
I guess you still need games where you have to manage your characters between fights because it's a different kind of fun but Silksong would benefit a lot from heading towards Cuphead direction.

>>721141613
>first game is easy for normal people
>second game is le epik hardkore pattern memorization simulator for osu autists
people were tricked into buying slikslop

>>721148090
The two types of bosses in skong:

>Act 1 is kino because you are discovering the foundations of the world
>Act 2 is kino because you are discovering the center of the world
>Act 3 is shit because you are doing boss rushes in slapdash rehashes of pre-existing areas with an apocalypse philter thrown over it
Act 3 had almost no exploration. And exploration is the bleeding heart of this type of game. Not combat.

Learning and building muscle memory are part of the fun, and they are good for your brain.

>>721148423
>found the masochist

>>721148354
It is true, after you realize act 3 has almost no new areas to Explore it loses its shine fast.

>>721141650
Zoomers all have main character syndrome

Good thing Silksong isn't hard then

>Actual Boomers, Gen Xers and now Millennials are the ones in charge of decision making that changes the world, in charge of art direction and content creation, as well as the ones doing the parenting
>"Haha wow you retarded zoomies sure grew in a gay ass world huh, sucks to be you!"

The fact that this board loves garbage for women that requires no actual skill (BG3, E33, Life is Tumblr) but shits itself over anything with challenging gameplay should tell you everything.

>bench runbacks
>have to farm for shards if you run out of tools
These are actual valid criticisms. I remember people crying about Cuphead's difficulty too, but in that game you can immediately retry bosses and bash your head in until you win. Same in Rabi-Ribi and Tevi.

>>721148664
>Tumblr
Are you just out from a coma, on your way to vote Mitt Romney ?

>>721140635 (OP)
>what is the point of difficult piano pieces? why can't you just sight read easy pieces without putting any real effort?
>what is the point of difficult mountain treks? why don't you just walk through a boring plain and enjoy the scenery?

>>721140635 (OP)
The game isnt difficult tho, you just lack the skills needed to understand and defeat the game, its like a child saying that walking or speech is difficult where other children may agree but adults will obviously not have any problems with that at all. Basically what im trying to say is that the game exists in a vacuum and if you treat it real life you will soon understand that its not much different from learning a new skill which may look difficult at the first glance but in reality its only difficult because you dont *understand* it, once you gain comprehension of what the fuck are you doing, it comes like second nature, the only difference is that some skills in real life are forced on you to learn, and silksong is not, thats why it "feels" difficult to learn - because you have to learn it from scratch, and are concsious of every moment of it

>>721151013
gymnastics

>>721151013
Your balls won't instantly drop off if you admit that Silksong is a challenging game anon. No need for pumpfake grandstanding.

>>721151242
am i wrong tho

>>721140635 (OP)
quit spamming

>>721140635 (OP)
This game is not hard it's just made by retards and balanced for twitch streamer tryhards.

I just switched to Wonderer's Crest with Long Claw after trying to play this game 100% with Hunter and I'm fucking steamrolling through content.

>>721145463
>>double dmg
If everything did 1 damage and you only started with 3 hearts instead, none of you retards would be complaining even though that would be objectively slightly tougher.

>>broke af until citadel unless you farm
There's plenty of rosaries, all the complaints I've heard come from dumb motherfuckers incapable of projecting the pattern of the game being full of pay benches and popping all their strings for a key.
How could you have possibly known that the thing which has happened 10 times already would happen again another 20 times? Definitely the game's fault for making you bad with money.

>>gauntlets with too many waves, bosses summoning minions too much
The point of Beastfly is to force you to adapt and shed bad habits from other games. If you play it like hyperaggressive parryslop, you lose. If you chill the fuck out, it's easy. It needs to be near the beginning of the game to teach this lesson.
Nothing else is ever a problem; the gauntlets are either before easy bosses or you get a shortcut, or both.

>>the entirety of bilewater
Only has two enemy types until after the boss and one of those gives you infinite free silk for cures and healing.

Zoomers are fucking retarded.
The game is pretty easy if you just chill the fuck out and listen to what it's telling you. But even if it were a very hard game, so what?
Why should it be lowered to your level? Why, objectively, should casuals and retards think they're entitled to see the ending of every single game?

>>721151338
No. I agree.
These threads have been plagued by morons insisting that anyone who found it comparatively easy is lying.
I don't know why. It's pretty pathetic to assert that it's impossible anybody could be better than a game than you.

But for me it just clicked and I cruised through just about everything and I'm sure plenty of other people felt the same way about it.

>>721151812
i beat the game and it literally wasn't that hard, although i did cheat rosaries and shards because i hate farming/worrying about in game currency but aside from that all bosses are legit and it literally wasn't that hard

>>721151812
Yeah thats exactly it, for me the game is difficult, as was hollow knight, but i still understand that thats because im not a master at the games mechanics, if i spent a lot of time, i would master it eventually, but beating the final boss of the game was good enough for me, and will be probably be the same with Silksong

>>721148354
>the developers moved away from exploration and interesting locations to focus more on bossfights, where the actual gameplay "is nothing remarkable"
i mightve heard something like this before...

>>721151662
Those flying things in Bilewater stop respawning

>>721140635 (OP)
So tiresome.
But yeah contact damage ought to be toned down a little

>>721154835
Bosses would be a lot less interesting without contact damage. Just look at shitty Nine Sols

>>721148040
I just had a very long section in an icy mountain. There was no bench halfway through, it was all just a very long and brutal platforming section with a lot of "you have to commit forward without knowing where it goes while you are freezing to death" and I died probably at the end, or at least very, very far away. Waking at the bench in Africa when I was already in the US doesn't make me go "wow that an arduous journey," it makes me go "fuck you game." I just turned it off.

>>721154897
Tone down doesn't mean remove, esl.

>>721149096
When you learn a piano piece you don't have to relearn it every time you start playing the piano. Literally every step of your learning process has a save point. You dumb fucking nigger.

ITT: nobody actually looked at the video saying that silksong's difficulty is good

>>721142195
>Zoomer
>Artificial difficulty
I've been seeing that term flung around since like 2011 im pretty sure it predates that generation

It`s a tedious slog.

>>721154897
Nine Sols bosses are harder than Silksong bosses.

>>721155040
>When you learn a piano piece you don't have to relearn it every time you start playing the piano
You still have to execute it every time, retard lmao
>Literally every step of your learning process has a save point
yeah, those are called benches, retard lmao

>>721140635 (OP)
In case anyone wants to watch the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip5pYl-MuYs

>>721151542
Yeah I swapped from Swiftbrand to Long Claw halfway through and it felt like the game went from Soulsborne to Kirby. I swear the stat scaling is completely busted if you lean into break builds and ignore dodge tech. No shame in abusing what’s clearly overtuned though; if the devs didn’t want me to faceroll with Wonderer’s Crest, they wouldn’t have made it stack with claw crits like that.

>>721140635 (OP)
overcoming a challenge is fun

>>721140635 (OP)
Its not about the difficulty, its about the meaningful satisfaction

>>721140635 (OP)
Shows that you either never understood, or never played, good arcade games.
They needed to be able to bring people back consistently without letting them hog the cabinet for a long time in order to make money fool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8NenE-WtFc

>>721140635 (OP)
Hard isn't inherently bad, its a tool used to ensure that the dynamics in the gameplay are satisfying

>>721141650
Real life is already extremely challenging.

Why the fuck would anyone want to be challenged in their escapism?

>>721140635 (OP)
>no game should ever be hard it's objectively bad game design
Or maybe the game wasn't made for you. You are not the target audience for every game that comes out

>>721143219
>don't make excuses.
Excuses are unrelated conceptually to liking a game or not lol

>>721149020
The cultural damage of Tumblr still persists, it just migrated to Xitter and TikTok

>>721140635 (OP)
>Op post has absolutely nothing to do with the content of the video
kek

>>721161164
Stop shilling your channel Blader

>>721140635 (OP)
Nah. Someone posted this take a couple of days ago which I largely agree with

>>721142753
Jackie Chan