Thread 723112992

What games do dual wielding right?

>HEMA
Katanas mog every other sword, btw.

Sword fighting is kind of cringe, but at least it makes the basement dwellers come out of their lairs.

>>723113681
1v1 me if it's so cringe.

dual wielding will never work irl cuz weight>>>>>most other things
but in fiction that barely matters when everyone is a superhuman

>>723113996
it worked pretty often, just not with two swords. it was usually a rapier and a knife, and stuff along those lines

>>723114248
In a time when the average fighter would give you ground to work with & somewhat respect you, giving you a slight advantage if you were truly a psycho.

>>723114248
it wasn't "pretty often" it was a novelty in duels as well

>>723113478
gay homo

>>723114607
Is the left guy intentionally demonstrating how to get mogged or does he just fucking suck?

>>723114463
Not really, rapier and dagger was generally considered superior to single rapier, rapier on its own is suboptimal for self-defense purposes because if someone gets past your point you're kind of fucked.

>>723114885
Is that so? And in which place and time period was dual wielding with a rapier considered the go to option?

>>723114841
It's a demonstration.

>Parries the first swing
>Then just stands there without any attempt at riposte before getting poked
At the very least it would have been a double if he didn't freeze up. Probably would have worked better if he stood left foot forward too. Why would you have your shorter blade so far back?

>>723114987
>t. Guy on the left coping

HEMA faggots know about as much as medieval combat as kids playing airsoft know about modern warfare

hell even less, at least we have a lot of combat footage but all they base their knowledge on is a couple of manuscripts describing fucking duels

>>723114949
From around 1590 (circa Saviolo onwards) to around 1650/1670-ish (when the earliest smallsword sources start to appear) in most of western Europe, almost every source from that period either included rapier and dagger or focused on it entirely. The exceptions being ones for strictly military combat and/or martial weapons like George Silver on backsword.

I'm still mad.

>>723114248
it works in duels with rapiers, but it's a joke against an armored knight

>>723115040
Also didn't help that he let himself get pushed up agains the wall, traversing would've helped.

>>723114607
2 handing works better with katana. half swording is for larpers

>>723115187
>all they base their knowledge on is a couple of manuscripts describing fucking duels
well there's not a lot to go off of
it's unfortunate that we haven't maintained a culture of practicing traditional martial arts in the west in the same way they did in asia. The best we have is fencing, which is fine but unfortunately so recent.

>>723115398
good thing rapiers didn't coexist with the knights then

>>723115398
Rapiers were not intended for armored combat, they're not even optimized for warfare in general although they did see use in war regardless. Anti-armor weapons are the kinds of things no one would ever carry in civilian life, like estocs and poleaxes (you could carry a rondel dagger but there's no real benefit for doing that in civilian life compared to just having a normal dagger than can actually cut).

>>723115567
that's because european "fencing" was just some slow brute in heavy, curbersome armor making wild slashes with his blunt sword, that's why europeans were demolished by mongols and saracens

meanwhile asia had the samurai - apex warriors

>>723115548
You do know there's Japanese sources for halfswording, right?

>>723115594
well rapiers started being a thing in like the 1500s, so armored knights were definitely still around
they just weren't used in the same contexts

>>723115648
>no one would ever carry in civilian life
I would just so people would know I'm mentally unstable

>>723115665
>Mongols
They got BTFO anytime they entered Romania lol

dual wielding was literally all they did because you had 2 hands
the two hander cornering some dude is already a larp, just run around til the faggot cant carry the actual 80 lb weapon any more
the fact its foam dog shit means its a larp and comical
real weapons take energy to use not a fucking poking session with foam rubber

>>723113996
Dual wielding doesn't not work because of weight, it is because of momentum. It is generally extremely hard to make use of both weapons optimally unless you completely forgo defense which would obliterate any efficiency gained by using two weapons.
Due to this, if someone was dual wielding, it was usually one main weapon and one sidearm, with the sidearm used solely for defense and opportunity attacks. This is why the parrying dagger became popularized, but it is obviously wildly ineffective outside of one on one duels compared to a traditional shield. This eventually evolved into firelocks in one hand with a sword in the other, which was decently effective in war because the guns were not good enough to be the main weapon yet.

>>723115791
Romanians are turkish rape babies

>>723115735
I mean it's the equivalent of open-carrying a rifle for every day life in modern times. I guess you could theoretically do it, but there isn't much reason to.

>>723115827
the biggest zweihanders were like 8lbs

>>723115908
the reason is killing niggers

>>723115827
>80lb weapon
Zweihanders are like 5lbs at most.

>>723113996
it works, it's ok, but it just never was quite worth it (with two swords, rapier and dagger was common). other alternatives were all things considered better and importantly easier. it's not even that dual wielding is super hard, but to take the full advantage of the off-hand weapon being a sword rather than a buckler is harder than just using it pretty much defensively, at which point you're better using a buckler

that being said, if your alternatives were to go into a duel with a single one-handed sword and nothing in your off-hand vs two swords you *would* actually be better off with the latter.

>>723113478
>strongest Japanese weaponry vs average American consumable

>>723116064
Cornsyrup-san... I kneel...

do you think Musashi was full of shit?

>>723112992 (OP)
That's not fair, he was against a wall.

>>723112992 (OP)
>someone posts anything regarding European martial arts
>brownoids larping as ancient Japanese warriors start seething
what causes this?

>>723115990
There is actually a good reason rapier and dagger supplanted sword and buckler in civilian contexts and sources like Swetnam go into the differences and benefits of one over thee other. Bucklers specifically aren't as effective as intercepting thrusts as daggers, for example. Obviously a full sized shield would be better but no one wants to carry one of those in civilian life.

>>723113478
Hiyaa-ACK

>>723116595
>Bucklers specifically aren't as effective as intercepting thrusts as daggers,
???

>>723113478
>Katanas mog every other sword

>>723115665
You're really reaching back to pre-2008 popular ignorance for your trolling, huh?

>>723116595
>Obviously a full sized shield would be better but no one wants to carry one of those in civilian life.
one would think, but one would also think people wouldn't have bothered to carry around those ridiculously long rapiers that had to be worn pretty much horizontally and got stuck into everything. yet they did. there were eventually even laws in some places that restricted the lengths because of it, people got annoyed.

i think in reality a lot of it might've come down to fashion and culture. people can be bothered to wear inconvenient attire if it's fashionable

>>723116728
The aren't, they're much better at intercepting cuts, but daggers can catch thrusts and redirect them easily, whereas bucklers will typically only deflect thrusts at best, and controlling how the thrust is deflected is far more difficult. There are some examples of ridged bucklers and other variants which may have worked better but still aren't quite as effective as simply binding the thrust with a dagger.

>>723113478
>triggered a bunch of fags
Based.

>>723117003
I'm pretty sure even the most cumbersome of rapiers would still be less of a nuisance than having a full kite shield on you when you're going about daily life, those things are heavy and massively get in the way of everything. But yes, a lot of it did come down to fashion, and even then rapiers got smaller for convenience over time regardless until it developed into the smallsword.

>>723114607
You're taking a big risk that your hand doesn't get sliced in every clash.

>>723112992 (OP)
Webm is an average boss fight experience in Nioh.

>>723117015
>but daggers can catch thrusts and redirect them easily,
???

>>723112992 (OP)
you're not going to win a sword fight or any fight by standing in one spot

>>723112992 (OP)
Soul Calibur Cervantes

>>723116607
Why didn't he just slice the taser wires?

>>723116607
if he was black he'd be dead

>>723117212
The pressure is not enough to get trough a glove as long as you don't slide it along the blade.

>>723117220
Yes, the blade gets bound up with the dagger blade and hilt, allowing much easier leverage over the opponent's blade, whereas the buckler has no such leverage unless it's one of the more specially designed ones or it's also paired with a dagger. Or you use your sword to catch the blade after intercepting with the buckler but that defeats the point of having both weapons being utilized in tandem.

>>723117212
You'd be wearing gauntlets for that kind of situation.

Half-swording is a literal shitpost like monks drawing dicks in the margins of scripture

>>723117620
Half-swording is banned in various forms of modern armored sports combat because it actually works, ironically.

>>723117838
I forgot to mention I'm trans

>>723117914
You posted about monks drawing dicks,everyone already assumed that much.

>>723115370
>nowwy tens is in the book

>>723117620
Do you mean half-swording or do you mean Mordahu grip?

If you used the term incorrectly I will rape you btw

>>723117404
>ehm ehm the bwack peepul!!!
ooga booga

fags don't even know the ultimate sword is in fact the opponent

>>723114987
>>723115058
1:00 kinda proves it's a demo. Also the target keeps spamming Falcone guard. Looks cool but is not a good starting position.

>>723116064
Longswords cuck katanas. But gotta point out that's not a real sword. And it's a slicing/slashing weapon, not a whacking weapon.

>>723117397
why didn't he deflect? such a noob.

>>723116224
Is that even legal?

>>723118506
Lmao that's the one where he got tazed in the dick. and I just noticed he nicked himself in the neck from the fall.
>>723117404
Where do you think we are?

>>723118506
If he were Asian he'd be dead.

>>723118887
No, it's non-score. Hence the ref stepping in and giving the kicker a wtf is wrong with you look.
Still, if it works it works.

for me? its spear and shield, with a gladius on my belt

>>723116309
*sets boiling oil trap*
heh nothin personnel

>>723113478
How about katana, but with more reach?

>>723119298
Just go for a spear then. A Sephiroth katana would get you maybe two good attacks in before the gap is closed and the reach is pointless.

>>723116224
Never saw it coming

>>723119232
tl;dw 1000 fold nippon steel gets dunked on and using a longsword introduces more versatility than a katana.

>>723118887
It should be.

>>723119298
>mainly used for dick measuring

>>723119298
That Odachi isn't for open combat - The cutting edge is on the reverse, it's for ceremony. You can't draw cut with it which removes one of the peak advantages of the katana.

>>723119398
If you actually hit, there's not a third attack, and probably not even a second.
Swords are fucking brutal.
Katanas, long swords, short swords.. if it's sharp, it will most likely kill you even if you don't hit very hard.

>>723116224
A true heemer always has the advantage in melee when the armor is equal.

>>723119298
What games feature the ultimate fencing technique?

>>723118887
Grappling is fundamental to fighting in armor so kicking isn't far off, realistically
Maybe a roundhouse kick wouldn't specifically be a smart choice but a kick is a kick

>>723117404
Yeah, he would
https://6abc.com/post/person-airlifted-hospital-being-stabbed-norristown-montgomery-county/17827593/

>>723120180
Less than it should, and you should be able to equip special equipment to stop this tactic from being viable.

>>723120402
>Balls of Steel, what is that?

Love HEMA threads. But to answer OP, I think the KOTOR games because of the off hand bonus and using a short saber. Damage builds regularly use that and Master Speed to machine gun hits

>>723118819
They cut roughly the same, it's a sharpened bar of good steel.
Katanas are a bit easier to get the edge alignment right, but it's mostly the same shit, except that you can't cut with the two sides on the katana.

>>723120832
>These are the people shilling katanas
Only here lmao

>>723113478
basedaroo

>>723118506
damn i've never seen a hypothetical get destroyed so hard so quickly, you btfo that dork

>>723112992 (OP)
Dark Souls 2 powerstancing

>>723120832
Yes you're right about the cutting. HOWEVER, katanas excel only there. Longswords are waaayyyy more versatile. I don't think halfing is in katana doctrines, unless they also have gauntlets to protect the hands. There's also the handguard, the tip to cuck armor joints, halfing, and the 360 noscope equivalent of grabbing the blade and using the hanguard and hilt as a bludgeon.

>>723120924
They're very good.
They're not significantly different from long swords in damage, but both swords will fuck your shit up unless you have an armor.
One hit and you're on the floor pretty much.

behold, the power of stick with metal shit on one end

>>723113478
this

>>723121248
mfw

>>723121162
>I don't think halfing is in katana doctrines, unless they also have gauntlets to protect the hands.
I mean it's in Japanese armored combat sources, could be for tachi rather than katana though.

>>723121372
>this gif is older than most of the people posting on /v/ today
Wew

>>723121248
Longsword, Warhammer, Halberd.
The power trio.

>>723112992 (OP)
I-I-Is that a.... CHAOS ZWEIHANDER????

>>723121870
Estoc, Halberd, Scythe, and because you conjure these, they're always readily available.

>>723121372
All these years in and it still impresses me that it didn't just snap

>>723122604
It's just a synthetic zweihander or montante, unfortunately. Probably one of the old Black Fencer models when they still used white polymer material for the blades.
https://blackfencer.com/en/12-512-like-steel-waster-montante-v2.html
https://blackfencer.com/en/145-4230-montante-long-edge-shaped.html

i don't have any to contribute, but can people keep posing HEMA clips? shit is so cool, i feel my ancestors watching over my shoulder

>>723121372
There you have it. The katana is the upper echelon of bladed weapons and even a heavy european blade cannot withstand a single blow from a katana.

>>723121372
>Can clearly see katana hatchet tip, curved blade and single edge replaced by the longsword spear tip, straight blade and double edge
I'm pretty sure even the sloppiest of modern AI could make this old edit more convincing.

>>723114607
It's sad to think that people genuinely used to die this way. You make one mistake and that's it. Your whole life down the toilet. So not worth it

>>723116224
Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Stupid fucking knight cucks kek.

>>723123001
I don't have any webms and I'm not into really into longsword or armored stuff, but I can post some old videos I like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5w2Mh6CyXo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33urSctCFPk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW5BPFW2OGE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ChWmvBaWv4

>>723115341
Can you talk more about this and what got you into this? It's interesting. Do you just know about sword stuff or do you practice any sword fighting too?

>>723123907
You say that like it's any different in modern warfare or violent crime.

>>723123907
As opposed to being shot from a 100+ yards away with literally no way to react?

>>723117397
missed the QTE

>>723123907
You can get killed in a street fight just from landing funny. We're frail, at least that's an actual battle in war.

>>723117212
Movie fighting is not the same as real fighting. Knights wore thick padded gloves when suited up. That's like saying you'll burn your hand when using an oven mitt.

>>723124124
>what got you into this
Honestly I've been into sword stuff since I was a toddler, I feel that swashbuckler movies were more popular in the 90s than today and my parents used to take me to re-enactment knight tournaments, which I guess have always been more common in Europe than elsewhere. Also I was able to start olympic fencing around age 8, which I guess also isn't super common outside Europe.
>Do you just know about sword stuff or do you practice any sword fighting too?
Honestly I'm not really good at any of it but I did do fencing, kendo and currently HEMA. Broadsword is my favorite, in some respects because it's more straightforward than a lot of other sword systems. These days there's so much information available online that you can pretty much teach yourself from scratch, not only are the original sources available online in (mostly) modern English but there's tutorials for all sorts of things. It's great fun if you can find someone to spar with you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFNW5X_zifs

>>723116064
You can clearly see that that shit doesn't have an edge.

>>723123907
Same as it ever was
And pretty soon you'll get to experience it firsthand because we can't just ignore the president's desires

>>723123907
nothings changed

>>723123907
The modern day equivalent of relaxing

>>723116224
>>723119850
the problem is you're fighting with modern knowledge, a medieval soldier wouldn't even think about doing mma shit

>>723124984
>a medieval soldier wouldn't even think about doing mma shit
why do you think not?

>>723123907
>drone strikes you

>>723119298
like 1 inch bigger lmao

>>723116607
That's fucked up lmao. When you take a proper ride you lock up, you ain't dropping shit. They hit him with 44 too lol. He only dropped it when the ride ended.

is hema fun? there’s a club down the street from me that I’ve been wanting to check out for a while

also how much does a sword cost? I have no idea where to start with this stuff

>>723116224
FUCKING CASUAL

>>723113478
Katana isn't even top 3. It gets mogged by Saber, Rapier, Longsword, Basket-hilted sword and many others.

>>723125392
HEMA is fun IF your group isn't full of faggots.
The HEMA clubs I've been to provide their own practice swords and they're very accurate.
The starting cost for purchasing a sword varies a lot depending on what you want, a real functional steel sword obviously costs a lot more than a plastic sparring sword which you can get pretty good ones on even Amazon.
For example a decent starter longsword like a Hanwei Tinker Pearce Bastard Sword might cost you around $250 - $300 USD.
But then a plastic practice longsword like a Red Dragon Armoury longsword might cost you around $100 USD but its mainly used for practising solo drills and movements which you will learn during your HEMA class.
If you want to start actually just give it a try and go to a few classes and see if you like it, HEMA classes are usually pretty cheap and you can just call them and drop in as a beginner.

>>723112992 (OP)
Halo 2
Dark Souls 2

>>723112992 (OP)
>>723113478
>>723114607
Who's gonna tell these larping faggots, swords were rarely used in combat and were esssentially a sidearm and urban weapon?

>>723126286
neat, thanks anon

>>723116064
kek finest japanese ""craftsmanship""

>>723123907
Because getting shot hundreds of feet away from stray bullets when someone decides to have a shootout near houses is better?

>>723112992 (OP)
>duel wielding is le bad because this shitter let someone beat him in a fake dual
yawn

if dual wield guy had proper footwork the big word guy dies easy. big swords have some big disadvantages in combat.

>>723127412
This may surprise you but a lot of HEMA and related groups also do stuff other than just swords, like poleaxe, spear/pike, bayonetted musket etc.

>>723123907
most of the time in European combat they surrendered and were ransomed back to their families. The tragic thing is in cases where a guy surrendered and was executed shortly after because the army decided they couldnt watch prisoners and fight off the rest of the enemy army at the same time, like what happened at Agincourt.

>>723128239
Honestly, thats your own fault for being american, it even says so in the bibble, let me quote:

>be American
>get shot

>>723127412
retard alert

>>723127412
do you think they practice hema for self defense?

>>723128430
>most of the time in European combat they surrendered and were ransomed back to their families.
To be fair that only applies if you were wealthy enough to matter, your typical levied peasant or man-at-arms wouldn't be worth keeping alive for ransom.

>>723124984
You don't think they knew that kicking someone in the nuts was incapacitating in 1400?

>>723124984
>a kick is MMA shit

Doesn’t a Halberd mog every weapon since it’s both a spear and an axe?

>>723130070
>>723128938
>>723125124
>ah yes, the ancient depictions and text of round house head kicks, silly me!

>>723125438
>two faggots fighting
Literally about who touches the other first, each would crumble at the slightest bump of a knuckle

>>723130226
You know what mogs fucking everything?

>>723117404
And this is a problem...why?

>>723117404
There's a video of cops gunning down a fat white guy wielding a katana

>>723130941
You're the faggot who does "Nuke beats all!!" in Rock/Paper/Scissors, aren't you?

>>723119298
>>723119398
Nagina is the best since it's a katana + a spear in one. The ultimate weapon

>>723112992 (OP)
Eh that second thrust wouldn't go through even bad armor let alone a breastplate