Thread 723612743

now that the dust has settled, we all agree that silksong is a disappointment and not as good as hollow knight, correct?

Absolutely not. Silksong is superior in almost every way

Correct
It's a good game with mindboggling decisions that leaned too hard into its Souls DNA compared to the first, making a lot of the game a fucking unfun slog to play
Lost Lace is still a good boss fight though

>>723612743 (OP)
Too early to judge now. DLC hasn't come out yet. Silksong is better than the base game of HK, though.
All DLCs HK > base game SS > base game HK

>>723612743 (OP)
Silksong is a bit overcooked, it has a point when it surpasses Hollow Knight in almost everything and then it still has like 20% of the game left which falls off fast.
Entire Act 3 should've been cut (with bosses and upgrades moved to Act 2).

>dude what if we did a secret third act where the whole world gets fucked up?
>that would be cool, but how do we deal with all the quests that would stop making sense?
>just make the player do them all first lmao
retarded shit

>>723612743 (OP)
Nah, you just got filtered.

>>723612810
Every area except balance
It's even easier to completely break the game
Oh and some bosses being just waves of enemies is a complete failure in game design

>>723612743 (OP)
Silksong is harder than Hollow Knight and diehard shills will say "harder, therefore better".
Has too many bullshit moments and too much opting for assholish punishment over fun to truly be a masterpiece like HK was. Plus random fetch quests and pissant gauntlets which are not hard, just tedious and designed to waste your time and also make you feel like you're wasting your time.
That said there are parts of it that are a lot of fun. The two hardest bosses are genuinely some of the best bosses in the series. It's a shame you have to put up with so much bullshit to get there though.

Base silksong is miles better than base HK. HK(with all dlcs) only beats out silksong with pantheons.

I don't disagree with the Act 3 comments about how the pacing grinds to a halt for all the wishes and needing at least 25 fleas. It might even be worse if you want to try to do all the bosses and content you can do before it. Though I also thought the Abyss related stuff wasn't too bad in Act 3 compared to how people were talking about it, and there's still some decent bosses to be had.

>>723612743 (OP)
Yeah no. This game affirmed a lot of things for me. A great experience.

I would happily play HK again from a fresh save file
I'd probably never do so with Silksong
Feels like Silksong is the Dark Souls 2 to HK's Dark Souls 1. Still a well designed game, but not really one I had fun with
Maybe the Silksong DLCs will actually be fun, or maybe they'll just be more gauntletslop. We'll have to see

Silksong just feels a lot nicer to play. The movement feels like I'm doing parkour and it's a lot more varied in its combat options.

>>723612743 (OP)
I just got to the First Shrine at the Citadel and it's good so far, the combat is super fun but it's missing a bit of the magic that HK had. Maybe it's just because I had never played HK before I played HK (duh) but it's lost a bit of it's magic & oomph. Visuals are pretty incredible though.

Much better. I'm glad Team Cherry realized that every boss needs eight waves of primal aspids before fighting it for it to be a memorable experience.

>>723613027
cope

>>723612743 (OP)
true it's disappointing, but it's a dlc for a metroidvania that was pretty mediocre in the first place so the expectations were already low

>>723612743 (OP)
I thought Hollow Knight took way too long to actually get good. Silksong didnt have this problem for me.

It's a game with very high highs and very low lows.
It does improve on a lot of aspects of the first game but it feels like it just falls apart the more you play, it gets tiring really fast. It feels like it's designed to be frustrating, you need to take it slow because there's always shit to hurt you beyond the screen but the map is so huge and full of empty space that it feels like a slog to walk through and it doesn't help that you have to do way more backtracking, it just feels like a game they stretched out beyond what it was meant to be.
It's a good game but it's one of those games but I don't see any value in replaying it and I really don't see any reason to touch it even after all the DLC drops.

>>723612743 (OP)
It's better because it controls better.
Hollow Knight offers more challenge and adventure though.

>>723612743 (OP)
Yes
/thread

>>723612810
FPBP

>>723612938
Act 3 is just a little bonus 'true end' for autists, not even part of the main game. It's and like 1/10th the length of act 1 and 2.

>>723615183
Bro shut up, Hollow Knight didn't have these fake "Acts" and it was better for it

>>723613285
No it's not. It's easier.

Hollow Knight's combat for me was garbage since I couldn't attack diagonally and enemies were always at an angle like that. I had just come off of the Ori games which did combat and traversal extremely well, and played HK for hours and thought what the fuck is this piece of shit. Did silk song fix all the bullshit from HK?

>>723615226
Being a contrarian is easier than admitting the truth

>>723615220
true, hollow knight only has running around collecting dream points for Ac- true ending.

>>723615226
Yeah it is. Way easier. It's impossible for the game to be as difficult as hollow knight simply because hornet is much more agile and powerful.

>>723612743 (OP)
They're both shit.

>>723615402
No, it's not even close. The Knight can shadow dash. Has a far higher range. A smaller hitbox. More powerful charms. It's true that Hornet is more mobile. And Hornet's mobility is matched and often exceeded by enemies. Especially those fuckers in the Ducts.

>>723612743 (OP)
>vastly better moveset
>vastly bigger world
>money actually matters, decisions around it matter more as well (and you can avoid losing everything on death)
>body recovery is extremely easy and you can do it basically infinitely
>skills and tools feel much more distinct and versatile
>bosses aren't just "recognize the pattern and react appropriately"
>environments are ACTUALLY varied now
Nah.

The only things I'd give Hollow Knight are that I like the music more on the whole (it's all more distinctive and memorable) and that the "story" is better in Hollow Knight (but honestly I would not say by much). It's less that Silksong has a "weaker" story and more that "it has a big Lace-shaped hole in one part of it". That character just needed more exposure and organic characterization.

I enjoy it a lot more. My only real problem is while I like the music a lot more, very little of it actually fits the areas where they play(Bilewater)

>>723612810
FREN

>>723615801
The dissonance between calm music and tense gameplay is completely intentional and one of the most genius parts of both games.

>>723615668
They had to make the enemies more mobile or it would be a bigger joke than it already is.

>>723615668
Also bosses and enemies do two masks of damage each, and some of the runbacks are absolutely fucking terrible in Silksong whereas HK basically has zero bad runbacks
Legitimately, I don't see how anyone who has played Silksong all the way through would find HK easier - at least the main game. Some of the DLC is a bit more debatable

>>723612810
literally mental illness to think this

>>723616669
>I don't see how anyone who has played Silksong all the way through would find HK easier
They probably "beat" it using tools
That's another point in Hollow Knight's favor. For all the freedom it gives you compared to Silksong, There aren't really many builds that let you just straight up fucking cheese the game

>>723616669
Not always. Plenty of enemies deal one mask of damage. For instance, the big flying giga niggas in the gauntlet before Carmelita. None of the run backs are a big deal except bile water if you don't find the secret bench, but the frog boss is easy anyway.

>>723616850
Never used architect or reaper. I beat a few bosses with hunter witch and beast, mainly used wanderer in act 2 and shaman in act 3. Absolutely used tools on crests that can use tools. It's an intended game mechanic and you'd have to be retarded not to. The only way you can claim silk song is actually hard is if you play like a retard and don't dash, don't claw line, don't use tools, don't use silk abilities. Yeah, it's 'hard' if you play like a handicapped retard.

>>723616727
>terminal contrarian talks about mental illness
The ironing.

>>723616992
Anon, they deal two masks of damage
https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Last_Claw
>>723617107
If you're using tools, you can trivialize everything in the game so of course you wouldn't find it hard. But I also don't see how you would find a win button enjoyable either

>>723615668
It's always telling that niggas used to complain about HK's primal aspid, which, compared to Silksong's nuke throwers, dart spitters, and jet fighter mosquitoes are LITERALLY A JOKE TIER ENEMY. Their is a GULF between the enemy AI in HK and SS. For god's sake, the warrior ant enemies utilise Hornet's moveset from the first game, which was, for many players, their first chokepoint.

>>723612743 (OP)
that boss is hard but its at least fun

last judge, all the bosses and shit in the citadel, fucking suck dick

>>723617206
They do 1 damage with some attacks.
You want me to record it?

>>723617107
>it's 'hard' if you play like a handicapped retard.
with tools the game is designed to be played by a handicapped retard

>>723612743 (OP)
Correct.

>>723612743 (OP)
0/10 sage goes in all fields

>>723617206
Wanderer only gets 1 tool and Shaman gets 0 tools. Those are the two crests I've used the most. But of course you're meant to use tools situationally, like in the high halls gauntlet when the two clappers come out, you can just kill them easily with tacks while sticking to the walls and they can't even touch you.

>>723617267
this, act 2 and on is just a torturefest

>>723617320
You're a mentally retarded faggot playing with an arbritrary self handicap. Use what the game gives you or dont' bitch about the game and claim it's too hard you mentally ill tranny dogfucker.

>>723617429
>You're a mentally retarded faggot for not using cheat engine to give yourself infinite health and infinite silk and claim it's too hard you mentally ill tranny dogfucker.
this is what you sound like

>>723617572
Don't invalidate their experience anon, they worked hard to bring cogflies into each fight and sit on the wall and do nothing while the cogflies rape the boss to death.

>>723617429
Because using tools addresses my complaints about the runbacks being tedious and the gauntlets being time consuming... how?

>>723617320
>self imposed challenge autist's calling someone handicapped retard
you're either a total hypocrite or a mentally underdeveloped individual

>>723617626
I literally never use them faggot.

>>723612743 (OP)
>please please PLEASE someone agree with me!
Nope. Silksong is better in graphics, music, story, worldbuilding and combat.
Hollow Knight is great, but it's a much simpler (both in design and difficulty) game. For some it's a flaw and they like it less than the sequel, for others an advantage and they enjoy it more than Hornet's adventure, and it's absolutely fine to have either take, but to say that it's objectively better than Silksong is pure delusion.
>but the difficulty
Not an argument. Firstly, it's just slightly more difficult than Hollow Knight and not a single boss is on the Nightmare Grimm level. Secondly, if you cannot keep a balloon in air for 3 minutes it's not because of the balloon being bad, the rules being rigged or some secret artificial difficulty, you just lack skill. Either practice to improve or accept your flaws and leave it, don't expect to be treated seriously when you blame the balloon maker for making it too light/round/red.

>>723612743 (OP)
was using mouse and keyboard easier than controller? 100% with these two bad boys. using tools and downward dashing was too awkward for my spergy left hand so i barely ever did either

>toolsissies having a melty
no wonder they find hollow knight harder KEK

>>723612743 (OP)
Not disappointed but Hollow Knight is better, yes.

>>723612743 (OP)
The game definitely isn't a disappointment, I competed Steelsoul last week and had even more fun with it.
I can't wait for the DLC.

>>723617747
>Firstly, it's just slightly more difficult than Hollow Knight and not a single boss is on the Nightmare Grimm level.
This is true, but it's a shit argument since NKG is DLC. I could say not a single thing in Silksong is Pantheon 5 level either, but that'd be pretty stupid to say

>>723612743 (OP)
>silksong is a disappointment and not as good as hollow knight, correct?
Both are garbage.

>>723612743 (OP)
Market speaks and it says that HK is better than SS.
>Hollow Knight - EN-only (96%), all languages (95%)
>Silksong - EN-only (91%), all languages (84%)
Nuff said, close the thread now.

>>723617780
Are these toolsisies who find hollow knight harder in the room with us right now, strawman-kun?

>>723617810
This anon (>>723612846) is just and correct.
Judging EOL Hollow Knight against Silksong isn't fair.
When Silksong reaches it's final expansion is when judgement should be passed but comparing oranges to oranges, 1.0 Hollow Knight to 1.0 Silksong, Silksong is indeed a better game. Hollow Knight > Radiance is a much better last boss, however.

>>723612972
Wow, you cannot even analyze a very simple plot on an elementary school level.
>you're a demigod spider bug with nearly no upper limit for your power level
>if you care enough about the common bugs and keep helping them out, you can be their hero and liberator and start act 3
>if you ignore them or give up on helping them, you become the next uncaring tyrannical ruler and the game ends there
Wow, the gameplay and narrative are connected, how quirky!

>>723617747
NTA, but my issue is less difficulty and more how it comes up. I think an earlier anon described it well - the game is not necessarily that much more demanding than Hollow Knight, but it's a lot more happy to waste your time (runbacks, gauntlets whose only purpose is to waste time, obnoxious timed delivery missions where you don't know at what point you're fucked and just don't know it yet, bench starvation) than the first one. I've never felt frustration with Hollow Knight even when it was kicking my ass, but that was a constant with Silksong, even though deaths per area probably wasn't that different between the two

>>723612743 (OP)
I've been playing ss for around 30 h i got to say at least now, hk is better

Silksong is like Banjo-Tooie. It's a much grander game in scope with higher highs, but gets dragged down by lower lows. Hollow Knight isn't better in every way, but I respect it more as an overall product.

>>723613834
>Dark Souls 2 was well designed
Are you high

>>723618107
I stand by it. It was well designed and achieved its goal
Its goal just wasn't for you to have fun, it was for you to suffer

>>723618231
I get what you're saying, but I still disagree. Even the "prepare to die" moments in DS2 were awful and clunky. Amateur hour. The game is held together by flour and dusty duct tape. Silksong can be mean and awful and I did get angry at it a few times, but I could feel actual intent behind those traps, fake benches and nasty surprises. DS2 is just a mess of aborted ideas. In retrospect, Silksong's traps make me laugh, DS2 just makes me sad.

It's pretty crazy how much tunnel vision there is with this game.
There are people who hate every fucking aspect of it and will never touch it again, then there are people who love every aspect of it and will claw your throat if you say the slightest bad thing about anything.
Meanwhile, I kind of just think it's a mid game.

>>723612743 (OP)
Silksong is the epitome of "Sunk cost fallacy".

>>723618058
I can agree that Silksong wastes your time... a bit. There are only 2 awful runbacks if you fail (should be ZERO, hard agree on this), but losing another 10 seconds to play a song to old Karmelita and then another 10 to get to her arena and then a minute to kill her bodyguards didn't feel good at all. Thankfully it took me just 6 tries, but someone who needed 10 or 15 has all the right to be angry.
That's why it's a 9/10 for me. Same as HK, just for different reasons. Some things it does better, a few it does worse, but overall it's great, just flawed.

>>723618508
It wouldn't be funny if traps in silksong one tap'ed you like most "traps" in souls games.

>>723618570
>fence sitter brings no arguments for his position other than "people who have strong opinions are dumb, look how moderate and rational I am in contrast, this must mean I am right."
Typical.

>>723618843
Thanks for proving my point, anon.

>>723618612
I can see the game being a sunk cost if some soulsfags are coming into the game expecting a constant bossfight but hit with combat arena, platforming and exploration instead. A bummer for Malenia, blade of miquella community

>>723619003
I'm sure if you played this shit for over 50 hours, you'll try to delude yourself into thinking how much of a masterpiece it is.

>>723612743 (OP)
Correct. If the game wasn't hard I think everyone would see it for what it is. A 7/10 game.

>>723619062
>playing the game because I was having fun is le wrong
fucking nu /v/. kill yourself

>>723612743 (OP)
Silksong feels like bloat. Hollow Knight felt like they had a vision and stuck with it while Silksong feels like they started with a vision and then ended up just throwing anything they thought was cool into it.

>>723618736
>but losing another 10 seconds to play a song to old Karmelita and then another 10 to get to her arena and then a minute to kill her bodyguards didn't feel good at all
My thoughts too. I spent a lot of attempts on Karmelita and she had all the makings of a boss I would like, but the two minutes of twiddling my thumbs and beating a time wasting gauntlet to get back to the fun part is such a mindboggling decision and basically made me hate what should have been a fun fight
Then I loved basically all the fights that didn't have obnoxious runbacks, including Lost Lace

>>723618869
Oh, did I? Then what is my position on the game? Which faction do I represent? Which exact part of your statement did I prove? Or maybe I did not talk about the game at all, but rather about your sheer stupidity, you sack of smug cunts?
Ponder this for a while.

>>723619237
>dude I totally enjoyed playing this game for 100 hours, getting ass-raped by hundreds of different enemies, having to go back everytime I do something wrong and then winning by sheer luck is so much fun!!
There's a reason why this game is labeled as souls-like.

>>723619563
The fact that the game is inundated with extremist trannies you blatant fucking retard. Couldn't even let my post go without giving me a (You). Pathetic.

>>723619549
I'm just glad I quickly diacovered a safe spor for healing at the very top of the arena (wall jump to the center) and just kept pogoing her to death from high above while most of her attacks couldn't hit me. Clawline is a godsend for air mobility.
Then I found out online you can just facetank and DPS her to death (quick bind and multi bind help a lot, get up to heal and go crazy again) with Wanderer, you just have to jump when she jumps, stay close and swing like a madman.

>>723612810
FPBP-SAMA!

>>723612743 (OP)
FaaaaGGGGGGGGGGOT

>>723612743 (OP)
It's peak tumblrcore.

>>723618570
The one thing it most certainly isn't is mid, retard.

>>723619675
>everone is dumb and a tranny but me and if you respond to my ramblings I win
Keep digging that hole, mr sociopath. We are all having a laugh.

>>723619913
Mostly I'm just laughing at your spelling of "everyone"

>>723612743 (OP)
>trannies now try to shit on the old game to promote the new one
A tale as old as time.

>>723612743 (OP)
Hollow Knight is a 3/10
Silksong is a 6.5/10

>>723618075
>Silksong is like Banjo-Tooie
Underrated Post

>>723612743 (OP)
Incorrect, thank you for your attention.

>>723612743 (OP)

I replayed HK after finishing Silksong and it was inferior in almost every way

How do I unlock the boss rush mode? I don't want to play through the crappy metroidvania. Just want to fight bosses.

>>723623054
.

>>723612743 (OP)
It's not as good at being more of what I liked about HK (besides artstyle) but it's not a bad game either.
It's just that people had different expectations for it than what it ended up being. I know I didn't expect high difficulty to be a defining aspect of the sequel to a fairly casual metroidvania.

>>723612743 (OP)
Let's see
Exploration is worse and less rewarding.
Story and narrative is a complete failure, it may as well not exist at all.
World is less memorable.
They are attempting to make up for this barren result with more mechanically complex and difficult gameplay, but the problem is that first, this game is not entirely about gameplay mechanics, and second, HK's extremely simple gameplay formula has a pretty limited space for more complexity.

This game is worse, however, it should not have been a surprise that it's worse, we should have seen it coming from the last HK expansion
>No metroidovania content whatsoever
>Almost no narrative, and whatever there is, is nonsensical
>It's just repetition of existing fights with extra shit
>The highlight is the series of prolonged arena fights that take significant amount of grind to clear and that I can't imagine anyone mentally healthy bothering with

Silksong is what you get when you apply the Godhome approach to the whole HK instead of it being an isolated corner reeking of speedrunning events, low-functioning autism and estrogen pills. We should have seen it coming.

tldr Godhome was a mistake.

I'll never replay it when I'm done with Act 3.
I never bothered with pantheon in HK, so I have no idea why they thought turning whole base game of Silksong in it is a good idea.

>older gooderer
>newer badder???

Game unironically too hard for my brain. By the time I beat the boss, I've already been raped 10 times on average and get very little relief from finally winning. They didn't playtest it for newcomers.

>>723623516
>so I have no idea why they thought turning whole base game of Silksong in it is a good idea
Apparently they communicated too much with the most dedicated portion of fandom consisting of autistic troons who were playing it for 7 years straight. It's those people who were employed as playtesters as well.
This game was made with them in mind, not with you.

>>723623593
Dying 10 times to each considerable boss is probably exactly what the devs had in mind.

>>723623389
To be fair the DLC were mostly things they had already started working on and didn't find the time to include into the game at release, and they were all free. Godhome is basically a boss rush feature that a lot of similar game have except with more effort put into it and a story added on top.
There's nothing wrong with having a boss rush mode in your game and it's definitely not a sign of the sequel becoming a boss rush game.

Music overall : Silksong
Music best song in particular: HK
Combat: SS
Movement: SS
Story wise-
Antagonist- HK
Themes - SS
Plot - HK
Characters - I'd say tie
Ending - HK

>>723612810
/thread

>>723623220
I found this mod: https://www.nexusmods.com/hollowknightsilksong/mods/261?tab=description

It's working, but the 100% save file I'm using seems to be too strong. I wonder what the best way to balance the fights. I'm doing more damage than I remember doing.

>>723623921
>Music overall : Silksong
THere is literally nothing
NOTHING
in Silksong that is anywhere close to as memorable as Dirtmouth and the Crossroads and etc.
/v/ anons are so beyond delusional to say anything musically in Silksong is better than the original it's pure contrarianism
https://youtu.be/eX4de4BH5lM?si=z9ZQ9KO66AijM6kS

>>723613635
I just looked up the last remaining fleas. Like yeah, the two remaining paths were some backwater corner in the top of greymoor that I needed to revisit after double jump getting me to the wisp thicket, and the corner of a big room in the archives that led me to the putrid ducts-memoriam flea. If I were to get those fleas legitimately I would have wasted like 3 hours just checking every corner in like 5 different zones.

>>723612810
Music is shit.

>>723623921
>>723624479
Wrong
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTicXQYw2ts

>>723623921
>Antagonist- HK
>Plot - HK
HK didn't even have an antagonist until the literal last minute reveal of Radience. Everything before that was "orange goo bad, go bully some sleeping bugs".
Meanwhile in Silksong you have an entire setup phase of following a pilgrim's trail to find your kidnapper, you already find hints with the needolin that something is controlling every enemy you encounter with invisible threads, you arrive in actual Bug Heaven and everyone is fucking dead.

>>723618040
as I said, retarded shit

what the fuck

>>723626953
Radiance was a force of nature villain and she did her job well.
GMS is supposed to be a very complex somewhat sympathetic villain and yet she fails to conveys this. ppl think she's discount radiance

>>723628319
Radience and GMS were both actual godlike being, GMS wanted to bind and control every bug under her, nothing sympathetic in that. But the key difference is that GMS is present in the game so much more even before you finally get to her than Radience.

Just a direct example: EVERY SINGLE enemy in the game, including BOSSES are connected to GMS with an invisible thread that you can reveal with the Needolin. Every single enemy, except for Lace. Lace even on her first encounter acts completely differently, there is no threa bound to her yet the silk inside her still reacts to the music. It's an amazing piece of organic storytelling that was completely missing in the original HK except for the occasional Dream Nail lore.

>>723624479
>Choral Chambers
>Bilewater
>Red Maiden
>Clockwork Core
>Widow
>Sister of the Void
Not memorable my ass. This is peak.

>>723612810
>Silksong is superior in almost every way
Absolutely not wtf. Just the story/atmosphere and world cohesion alone is such a downgrade that I cannot imagine thinking the shit with the Haunting and Lace comes anywhere near the kino of the infection and the vessels.

>>723612810
Final boss gets reused TWICE
Garbage final boss

>>723612743 (OP)
Correct. It is still however an excellent game with it's own merits despite its flaws, and we shouldn't hold it against Team Cherry to not be able to make lightning strike twice. Most people don't even have one Hollow Knight in them, I don't expect anyone to have two.

>>723612810
>this is what tumblrfags believe

>>723628757
Despite all that it feels like there's barely any story going on in silksong until act 3 because it takes so long to get there.
You can finish HK 100% blind including the big story moments of the path toward the true ending in the time it takes to reach the end of act 2 in silksong.
Yes it had lore, HK does too, but it should've had a plot thread that hooks the player much earlier, not this random sidequest about ringing bells and collecting songs. Lace should've appeared more often to properly function as rival. There's only a single fight an hour into the game and the next fight happens 30 hours later right before the ending (for a lot of people at least).

>>723629093
the infection never made sense to me
>there's a moth sunlight god (lol, moth humor) that makes people go crazy from orange goo
it makes way more sense that a silk god is making people go crazy through silk, because 1) silk is insectoid and 2) strings are used to control puppets

>>723629316
The Radiance penetrated the bugs of Hallownest through dreams, whereas GMS accomplishes the same through silk. Yet there is a problem. While everyone dreams (except Zote), not everyone has been cruelly injected with silk—especially not the Skarr ants. So why are they also haunted ? Does the game ever account for this ?

>>723629228
>Despite all that it feels like there's barely any story going on in silksong until act 3
This is only true if you pay actual 0 attention to things going around you, skip every sidequest, don't talk to npcs etc.

>>723612743 (OP)
The raw moment-to-moment gameplay is noticeably better in Silksong. Just fighting and moving and traversing obstacles is so much better (although the Knight's flying > Hornet's flying) and there's way more QoL.

However this isn't some pure gameplay-only game like Dwarf Fortress and it's not some quasi-esports shit either, so there are things other than gameplay that matter, and for this type of game they tend to matter quite a bit. And in those things Silksong is usually a sidegrade and sometimes a downgrade.

The strongest parts of Hollow Knight were the story/lore, the world design, and the fact the game becomes noticeably cooler as you progress with the final stretches being the most well-executed parts of the game.

And it is these exact things that Silksong fucks up a bit. Pharloom is a bit more awkwardly put together than Hallownest. The game peaks strongly somewhere in act 2 but then keeps going for dozens more hours becoming more and more of a slog, with act 3 being the worst part of the game. And Silksong's sealed vessel equivalent being Lace, a bratty tutorial boss that just gets flattened every time you meet her, is a major disappointment.

Still a very good game but the only way you can think it's clearly superior over the original is if you uncritically buy into the NEWER = BETTER mindset.

i only have the final boss left to fight. no idea where the last mask shard and 2 spool fragments are

>>723613635
Maybe I play games in a peculiar way. But I had already met the conditions for Silk & Soul before I even rode up the elevator towards the cradle.
I just kept doing my missions as they came. And whenever I it felt like I had done a new story beat, I just revisited the old wish boards to see if they had been updated. And when they had I did their missions. And when I found new areas, I would explore them even if they weren't tied to the main story objective. So when I finally gathered all 3 pieces of the song, I had already done Shakra's quest, and had already done the Fleatopia stuff. I had already done the Silk & Soul stuff.

But if you actually prioritize the main quest I guess it can end up very differently.

>>723615773
Lace was always meant to be a shitty plot device rather than a proper character.

>>723629931
Have you found the shard beneath the Blasted Steps ? The spool beneath Mosshome ?

>>723629931
>no idea where the last mask shard
go check Weavernest Atla
> 2 spool fragments are
check every store npc including Grindle, besides that you can find 4 in total in Whiteward and Underworks that a lot of people miss

>>723629472
Are the Skarr ants haunted though? I thought that them (and bilewater bugs) are simply aggressive because they hate outsiders.

>>723630321
to be honest i can't remember

>>723629758
>Pharloom is a bit more awkwardly put together than Hallownest.
How so anon?
>but the only way you can think it's clearly superior over the original is if you uncritically buy into the NEWER = BETTER mindset.
I think the people who play silksong first will like it over the first hollow knight.

>>723618040
nta, but damn, really puts some of the Act 2 slog into perspective.

>>723630425
I'm afraid you're fucked mate. Best to begin training your memory before the walls close in.

>>723630421
Yeah, the Hunter's journal says
>Fierce, strong and disciplined... yet these qualities do not protect them from the Haunting. Is such a fate inevitable in these lands?
I found it bizarre. The Bilewater niggas are, as you said, simply hateful of outsiders. I think that same reasoning would've been enough to justify the aggression of the ants.

>>723630478
The evil route is always easier, Anon.

>>723612743 (OP)
I still want to go back to it in some ways solely because I find the movement fun and I'm going to implicitly enjoy just running around in anything with an air dash and dive kick that bounces you off enemies, but overall there's too many spastic decisions in silksong that took away from my enjoyment of it and made me unlikely to ever play it again. Once you're a few hours in and you know the score you're never really surprised by anything because you can always feel the presence of the game designer about to pull some shit on you and it just takes you out of the game. I can't look at something like The Unravelled (a boss with 3 moves) and the elevator wait leading back to it and feel like the people who made it were more concerned with providing enjoyment for the player than they were just padding out a boss fight with extremely little meat to it. And they didn't even need to do this to begin with, the game is long enough already, making the player spend longer in the content you know is pissweak is just retarded.

>>723630846
>Once you're a few hours in and you know the score you're never really surprised by anything because you can always feel the presence of the game designer about to pull some shit on you and it just takes you out of the game.
After you're done with your second one you can almost feel the random enemy gauntlet approaching. I wonder if this is a team cherry thing or if 15 years of darksoulsvanias have exhausted every possible trick of the genre.

>>723631359
Trannyslop.

>>723612743 (OP)
If the latter half of Act 2 and 3 didn't exist I'd agree.

>>723612743 (OP)
Silksong feels thin, sort of stretched, like butter scraped over too much bread. I still love it though. It is painful to play, yet still enjoyable.

>>723618075
>Silksong is like Banjo-Tooie. It's a much grander game in scope with higher highs, but gets dragged down by lower lows
Absolutely this. I love Banjo Tooie and Kazooie both, but they are very different games. The same applies here.

I prefer HK's movement to SS. I hate the hover and having to use the claw shot, it feels janky. Yes, I have reached the surface, I have the memento.
It's enjoyable, but nothing in it has given me the feeling of reaching the city in HK. I kind of also prefer the atmosphere of HK overall. I like less talking(yes I know you can toggle of hornet's speech but then I'd be missing out wouldn't I).
Greenpath was simply cozy.

>>723618040
Finally a fucking person here who understands

Better movement but nail arts and spells suck.
I miss descending darkness like you wouldn't believe. Hornet heals for three mask but it doesn't make up for taking 2 mask of damage for almost everything and also having next to none invincible frames. Knigth felt strong and while the lack of a good dash is apparent when you replay the game he still nuked shit without having to rely on a currency based arsenal (red tools).

Red tools are an ass concept. Restocking on shards is so tedious that I end up beating bosses without red tools. They are an unbalanced and anti fun, I play with shaman crest but team cherry really wants to punish you for not crutching on red tools so the heal is ass and all the spells in the game have poor utility. Sharp dart is weak and laggy, the counter spell is ass, and the only strong spell silkstorm just got nerfed.

When do we get to play as him?

threadly reminder
>shazam lost
>/v/ lost and got filtered AGAIN

>>723632330
It was a bit of a weird choice to make both the parry and the iframe dash into silk skills, the cooldown on the iframe dash in HK was a better design choice IMO.

>>723632515
DLC

>>723630669
I don't think the implication is that the haunting requires you to have been injected with GMS' silk. You see the spiderweb threads all over the world; the haunting is GMS DOING the injecting, without your permission, from atop the citadel. That's why the first time you see bugs become haunted directly, you literally see strands of silk shoot down from the sky, grab them, and yank them up from death. It's not like being injected with silk is a necessary backdoor for her to mind hack you, she just sticks a silk tentacle up your butt.

>>723612810
Worse music and worse atmosphere.

>>723633038
I liked the atmosphere, and I don't think the music in either game is especially memorable. I don't think I could hum more than 2 or 3 notes from any song in either game. It did its job as a score (it conveyed emotional meaning and contextualized what was on screen) but none of it was catchy or memorable.

HK1 is more special, but silksong is a more than worthy sequel
>>723632330
i think red tools should have had more 'moveset extenders' such as the drill. Hell i wish i had the old plasmium needle as a charge attack
>punishing you for shaman
i dont know man, that crest is extremely powerful with its huge damage buff, even when it got toned down. i dont mind the healing
the parry is great, the other silk skills still do wonderful damage even if not completely broken like the silk storm ripping off more than 1/10 the boss health
>>723632650
iframeslop combat is getting bland in vidya, i really like sharpdart the way it is and i deeply appreciate ss's commital to actual hitbox evasion combat (just like i appreciate hk1 having its actual own combat too)

my ACTUAL big qualm with the silk skills is that theres no crest that offers multiple silk skills other than Shaman, which is a cool crest, but leaves you playing like HK1 with grubberflys elegy. I really wish there was a hornet-styled crest (hunter, reaper, architect etc) with 2 silk skill slots

>>723633165
sovless individual
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgrBJDU2yvQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6PuACnHkNY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvpCX9qtyZE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JWANCA-Pbw

>>723614569
Yes, and you're also coping. I forgot that part, but I thought it was implied.

>>723612743 (OP)
Hollow Knight was nothing special. I went into Silksong with 0 expectations and it ended up pretty good.

>>723632330
>>723633209
post scriptum
i wouldnt say the spells 'suck', but theyre nowhere as well balanced and integrated into the game as HK's spells
Theres some cool tricks you can do in HK1, like matching your piercing projectile spell with the movement of the enemy to land multihits. SS spells dont really have anything dynamic like that, and tools are more about mindlessly spamming for free damage

>>723632845
Yeah if being stuffed full of silk for life extension was a requirement to become a zombie the pilgrims wouldn't get haunted. I'm not sure what whiteward was for then.

>>723633326
Neither is silksong really. The game has no legs.

>>723629931
my last two spool fragments were under the elevator in whiteward and a secret breakable wall in a room above bone bottom. Did you get all of the quests in act 3 done that should be four mask shards

>>723633254
It's pretty, but who's walking around humming any of that? It's borderline ambient music, it's just meandering instrumentation with a loose sense of melodic context. Again, it's totally fine for what it is in the game, it sells a vibe for each area. But they aren't TUNES.

Compare and contrast:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwT2Ceiyt0Q
Which is instantly recognizable

HK's got a Hans Zimmer type score, not a John Williams type score. It exists in subservience to the game, but does not stand alone. The only real issue with this also being true of Silksong is that Silksong is a game about a civilization based on music, where arguably the most important plot beat involves learning the 3 parts of a melody integral to the secret of the game's entire civilization, and even THAT isn't memorable in the slightest.

Hollow Knight was boring dogshit, at least this game is fun to play and actually has friction in its core design and mechanics outside the gay pantheon boss rush garbage

>>723633587
music can be beautiful and catchy and memorable without being 'humming' material you absolute dummy
let me tell you something, Blind Forest is actually my favorite ost in vidya. And half the shit you said in your post is actually so fucking stupid that it actually makes me seethe that youre associating that thing with your 0iq take. hell its actually so dumb that it makes me think you probably dont even appreciate half of what makes ori's OST so damn good compared to the average slop orchestral melodic ost in the first place!!

SCREWYOUSCREWYOUSCREWYOUSCREWYOUSCREWYOUSCREWYOUSCREWYOUSCREWYOU

I don't like the lack of build customization in silksong, having different weapons that have both a limit of uses per life and a global limit based on currency makes you not want to use them whereas if you built your HK to use some kind of spell or summon build then your were giving away your offense charms for a different and really strong playstyles.
In SS it feels like everyone had the exact same experience with the biggest one being the Crest each of us picked, but I gotta say having played with the Beast crest for the entire game I didn't even get to use any blue charms until super late

>>723632330
>Restocking on shards is so tedious that I end up beating bosses without red tools
You are so close but so far. Weapon tools were made to deal with regular enemies, not bosses. Every single boss can be easily killed without a single tool and it's intentional.

>>723634627
you didn't even think about trying other crests but complain there's no build customization?

>>723634171
You don't have to understand music to have an opinion about it, I too thought Silksong's music was fitting but underwhelming in comparison to HK's OST.
There are times when music can make me like an area more than I should but I never felt that way playing Silksong except for the High Halls maybe

>>723634808
You could have said the exact opposite and you would've been correct as well, and that's because restocking on shards in indeed a hassle.

>>723634808
yeah if your STUPID maybe
*throws 6 hand grenades at the boss*

are benches in good spots? are there too many or not enough?

also if you say you need a bench before every boss you're a pleb

>>723635008
nobody said anything about 'understand music' like technically speaking, thats a meme when it comes to enjoyment
i wasnt talking about that in my post

with that said yes i do think specifically silksongs' ost is bland compared to HK's, and similary i do also have High Halls as my favorite ambient track

>>723635076
You are right, opposite is also correct. The key takeaway is that shards are intentionally limited because the tools are very powerful

>>723634171
>music can be beautiful and catchy and memorable without being 'humming' material you absolute dummy
Maybe, but that doesn't make anything in HK catchy or memorable. Because it isn't.

>the average slop orchestral melodic ost
I don't even know what this sentence is trying to describe. There are multiple schools of score composition, not all scores lean heavily on leitmotif and rely on melody to create context, a lot of them simply use texture and contour to establish moods or broad thematic ideas and to create drama/tension via swelling and shrinking. It's a fine way to write a score, it's the kind of score that you don't notice until it's gone. It's subtle. There's artistry in subtlety and an argument can be made that HK's score is a masterclass in that, because it elevates the game. It's a SCORE, not an album, it was never designed to stand on its own, it was designed to accompany gameplay.

That said, it doesn't do anything Silksong's score doesn't do. The idea that HK's score has "better songs" is ridiculous, it doesn't really have songs. Songs can be sung. That's the definition of a song. Textural accompaniment with no strong melodic identity is not a goddamn song.

Have some more actually memorable orchestral theme writing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFw0gbQk23M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzLhRB70KPM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdO0Ta8XJqg

>>723635191
In most areas I remember being surprised by how generous the bench placement was. Hornet being faster meant the travel time between benches was much lower compared to HK. It made areas like Bilewater stand out more as intentional deprivation.

>>723634627
>a global limit based on currency
What were they actually unironically thinking, that shards haven't been patched out yet is genuine bullshit.

>>723635351
>intentional deprivation
They must have thought they were being funny with that bench fakeout.

>>723634915
What makes you think I didn't try them?
All crests do could be charms in HK to mix and match how you want. I only picked Best because I liked the moveset the most but I wish it gave me the same freedom as the other crests to use more charms.

>>723635474
>>723635351
I think it's telling that there are 3 places in the game where you get bench-faked (Hunter's March, Sinner's Road, and Bilewater) and all 3 of them are areas with almost no other bench access. You're meant to be so starved for a bench that being denied the one you finally found is a gut punch.

>>723635351
this

I just consider Bilewaters trek as a different form of challenge

>>723633209
>i deeply appreciate ss's commital to actual hitbox evasion combat
Wdym anon?

>>723635692
The first two are small areas and the benches are easily fixed. Sinner's Road in particular is pretty close to the Greymoor entrance, and also has the second bench at Styx. Bilewater is the main asshole.

>>723635692
sounds to me like working as intended

I never really noticed any area music until the choral chambers desu. Felt like I was playing with music muted until then.
High halls and clockwork core are really nice too tho.

>>723635804
>Felt like I was playing with music muted until then.
You kinda were, the default volume settings make SFX too loud and the music gets drowned out. I turned SFX down to 8 for my second playthrough and it was much better.

>>723612846
really? i thought the hollow knight DLCs only added
>le superbosses
hardly the selling point of a metroidvania which should be the overall worldspace and not a few one-off boss fights.

>>723635784
>The first two are small areas and the benches are easily fixed
Only once you know how. I think the moment goes the same for everyone for all 3 areas. It's something like
>please, fucking please tell me there's a bench soon
>oh, thank god! A bench! It's been like 20 minutes since I sat at a bench
>oh FUCK you game
Bilewater just STAYS worse. Then again you can't get killed for your ignorance by the Bilewater bench so arguably the Hunter's one is worse. In all 3 cases though, the thing that stands out is the disappointment you feel when you're denied the bench you thought you found, more than the actual punishment.

>>723635945
if the DLC added worldspace people wouldn't like it/wonder why it wasn't in the base game

>>723635984
Maybe, but if it was HK you wouldn't be able to fix the Sinner's Road bench and Hunter's Path's only one would be inside the Chapel. There was a lot more bench starvation in that game than people remember.

>>723633209
>my ACTUAL big qualm with the silk skills is that theres no crest that offers multiple silk skills other than Shaman, which is a cool crest, but leaves you playing like HK1 with grubberflys elegy. I really wish there was a hornet-styled crest (hunter, reaper, architect etc) with 2 silk skill slots
Forgot to say, yes what the fuck is this shit. Shaman crest is strong, yeah, but it handicaps the rest of your moveset so hard that it barely feels worth using unless you go all-in on spells and change your playstyle for this avoidant keepaway poker shit.

I don't understand why every other crest restrict you to a single spell slot when they have so much utility. Parry, shadow dash, ranged attack, get-off-me anti-air, there's lots of useful utility there, but it all gets sidelined. I don't want to use the parry because it't not reliable. You press the button in the middle of combat and whoops oh no no you're out of silk, you took damage and it's YOUR FAULT for not paying attention to the size of your silk meter while dodging attacks and paying attention to the boss.

>>723635936
Nah I turned SFX down right after starting the game, I think most of the beginning tracks just fuck off after doing a little bit of atmosphere while you're playing.

Does Ari really do ALL of the graphics and animations by himself? That seems like a herculean amount of work with how big Silksong is.

>>723635692
Sinner's road one was nice because you at least had to push a bit further to release it. Thr bilewater one was just ass.

>>723635338
>Songs can be sung
>That's the definition of a song

>>723636181
well they had years so, but you aren't wrong

>>723635945
DLCs also redesigned Hive into a full area, added a bunch to Royal Waterways (to provide you with a place to find the Godseeker) and a hidden area off the Coliseum of Fools (to provide you with a simple key for said Godseeker), and added Path of Pain. Plus a new (arguably two) ending.The ability to Dreamgate was also added in DLC. When people think of HK DLCs they think
>Zote
>Grimm
>Pantheons
but the DLCs added and redesigned areas, rebalanced bosses and charms, added QoL features, expanded the lore, and generally did a bunch of other stuff in addition to just adding bosses.

>>723635945
Excluding new bosses, the Ancient Basin Stag Station, Dreamgate, the Unbreakable charms, 5 completely new charms, another charm notch, map markers, and the Path of Pain were all post-release

>>723617849
>>723615543
TRVKE
(some) bosses are the only challenge in these, and it's not a particularly fun challenge. The remaining 95% of the game is filler. It's a shit sandwich.

>>723636181
It's fucked man. And not only drawing every single minute detail of this massive world, but redrawing it. If you watch old trailers you can see how many iterations the designs have undergone. He deserves some kind of massive award. Or 70% of the proceeds.

>>723635338
Wow, look at mister Brahms over here with his hoity-toity music degree.

>>723616850
hunter and wanderer are honestly so broken that using those needle only is even easier than tool abuse

>>723612810
Nope. Worse atmosphere, music and game balance. Better platforming though.

the charm equivalent are shit. I love hearing people talk about le builds as if they actually exist. they dont. the game doesnt have "builds" (just like the souls games don't. It's fantasy.).
I looked forward to the longnail equivalent for the whole game and when I found it, it was like... a 5% increase. fucking shit. but still better than anything else I have.
I now have all the charms but none of them really feel like they make a significant difference. so i just use longclaw and then something that makes my generate silk slightly faster or something.
>Whoa... I can add... le lightning to my spells
cool but the damage difference isnt even noticable.

>>723633254
>linking soul sanctum without a hint of irony
bro that's quite literally just the original LoZ dungeon theme

>>723616850
HK was exactly as broken, though. You can get so much mileage out of fireball/d-dark spam it isn't funny, especially because boss HP scales with nail upgrades only so if you skip nail upgrades you can kill half the bosses in the game in 8 seconds by short hop d-darking over and over again.

The only difference with tool spam was because you didn't have to spend your healing resource to use tool spam, a lot more people discovered how broken it can be to cheese projectile-class attacks in a game where the entire risk-reward balance is about standing within arm's length of an enemy that does contact damage.

>>723636541
Multibinder is a gamechanger, what are you smoking?

>>723636541
who the fuck uses "le" in 2025, what is wrong with you?
rope immediately you fossil

Creatures I would have sex with:

>Hornet
>GMS
>Lace
>Phantom
>Karmelita
>Shakra
>Vog
>Scrounge
>Greyroot
>Seamstress
>Pinstress
>Gilly
>Styx
>Sherma

>>723618107
Low IQ

>>723636520
>wtf why isn't everything blue reeee this atmosphere sucks!

>>723635945
>Hidden Dreams added dreamnail fast travel, improved Nosk, and added GPZ and White Defender
>Grimm Troupe added the unbreakable charms, Grimmchild, Weaversong, and the 2 Grimm fights and their associated quests
>Lifeblood improved the Hive and Traitor Lord, and made a couple of dialogue and balance changes.
>Godmaster added 5 new bosses (PV, Oro & Mato, Sheo, Sly, winged Nosk), 2 harder boss variations (Sisters of Battle and AbsRad), the Junk Pit area of the Royal Waterways, the fluke hermit NPC, a miniboss in the Colosseum of Fools, the 5 pantheons, Godseeker mode, and a new ending entirely
DLCs added a substantial amount of content to HK, so it's not a stretch to assume Silksong will get the same treatment a few months down the line. We already know Team Cherry cut a lot of content out of Silksong from the areas/NPCs seen in trailers that are missing in the game. The DLCs are their chance to effectively reintroduce some of that cut content.

>>723636396
so you never died to any platforming sections?

>HK3: HK
>dream bullshit sequence where you meet PK
>he fasks you to speak
come on you aussie pieces of shit, you know you wanna

>>723633408
As far as I understand, the practice of silk injection is old. Horny mentions at some point that this implanted silk has been passed down the generations. I assumed this line was intended to justify the haunted pilgrims in lower Pharloom. Like their parents had sent them away after birth, while they continued to work or sing. I had hoped there would be line to address childbearing, it's one of the big missing societal explanations in the game, especially for a game about family.

>>723626953
so is the knight evil after he becomes that thing or what

>>723636541
>none of them FEEL like they make a difference
that's because you're an emotional retard

>>723626753
>people still posting the same single track from Silksong as if it trumps all of the incredible music in HK

I am so fucking sick of hearing Choral Chambers. It was an amazing track but you fuckers have made me hate it because you're obsessed with using it for your retarded opinion.

>>723636835
You missed that Grimm Troupe also added Path of Pain

>>723616850
>There aren't really many builds that let you just straight up fucking cheese the game
Yeah, because it only needed one that melts everything in seconds.

>>723619982
Trvke

>>723624479
So HK peaks in its first two areas and that's supposed to be impressive? Meanwhile the entire Citadel area has outstanding atmosphere and music. Not just Choral Chambers, but Cogwork Core, High Halls, even Whispering Vaults for how it's supposed to be low-key like a library is great. And that's without getting into areas like Bilewater and Karak, or any of the boss music.

This thread demonstrates this phenomena well.

>>723613130
>some bosses being just waves of enemies
Those aren't bosses. Those are gauntlets.

>End Game Hornet vs End Game Knight
>Karmelita vs Grimm (not the nightmare king)
>Mother Silk vs Pale Knight
who wins

>>723637495
Reddit.

>>723637379
elaborate

>>723637379
kek

Best bosses in Silksong are as follows:
First Sinner > Karmalita > Lost Lace

>>723636837
No. 1hp for touching spikes with instant near unlimited respawns is baby tier.

>>723635748
have you seen the absolute state of action games in the last couple years?
>iframe dash spam
>press 1 button to deflect
>simon says unblockables
>infinite variations of superficially copying whatever fromsoft games have
at most you get some roguelites and shit with combat of their own, but almost every good fleshed out melee action adventurey game is so creatively bankrupt in its combat its unreal, and the enemy movesets are pure style over substance because you technically deal with the combos of the final boss in the exact same way as you defend from the first boss we dont talk about lace being reused

>>723612743 (OP)
e-celebs week 1
>omg goty best game ever!!!
>it's not harder it's just different get used to it
>perfectly balanced
e-celebs week 2
>le journos are crying for a baby mode again
>muh skill, hurrdurr gitgud, lol filtered lmao!
>it's not for you and that's ok
e-celebs week 3
>if you didn't beat it pre-patch you didn't beat the game
>game is ez, look at my maxed out endgame cheese build straight from the wiki
>just take a break if you're feeling burn out, have you taken your break yet?
e-celebs week 4
>ok even Fromsoft doesn't do this! maybe the complaints are unto something
>it's beautiful, fun, great, perfect, 10 outta 10, lots of soul, devs poured their heart into it... buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut...
>maybe there are some minor frustrating issues that may need a slight rebalance here and there

if a hard game only generates complains it's a shit game
a good game is a game that rewards good performance with more punishment and leaves the player hungry for more

Am I going crazy, or is the Elegy of the Deep similar to Sherma's song? Not a one to one copy, but it seems to follow the same rhythm

>>723637796
Okay but Nine Sols was still fun though.

If you used tools to beat a boss, you didn't beat the boss, the tools did. If you can't beat a boss with just the needle, it's a shit boss. The good bosses don't need tools. The shit bosses that block progression do need tools, and require tedious grinding to keep working.
I got the true ending and I wish I had never heard of this fucking "game".

>>723618508
maybe if youre talking about original DS2 sure, i havent played it
but SOTFS feels very deliberate in how it uses the enemies and it really matches the extra upgrade materials wanting you to have a more fleshed out moveset

>>723626953
the whole thing with the radiance, pale king and vessels is infinitely more interesting than the central plot points of silksong
and it was interesting finding out what was up with the infection while in SS you instantly know whats up

>>723637906
too late, thanks for playing
glad you stuck with it to the end and got your 20 dollars worth

>>723637906
can you quickly livestream yourself beating lost lace without any tools or silk skills or charms or needle upgrades?
if you can't then you didn't beat the game

>>723637893
it was cool yeah

>>723637680
what about on steel soul?

>>723638051
By tools, I specifically meant red tools. But I still think a good boss should be able to be beaten with just the needle. So maybe I didn't beat it. I don't care. I'm never touching it again.
I did beat lost lace without red tools using reaper and magnetite dice and extra bind because I wasn't about to grind for an hour every few minutes to refuel the red tools. It was a miserable kaizo slog that completely ruined the entire experience for me. Nothing in the first game came close to that level of bullshit.
It's been 2 weeks and I'm still irritated. I go out of my way to warn people away from the game because of it.

>>723638547
Sounds like a skill issue on your part tbqhwyf

>>723637796
so what's your interpretation of good combat in 2d side scroling anon?
>twin stick shooter or contra style run and gun?
>classic enemy stomp platformer with one single atack and temporal respawning power ups?
>button mashing combos between light/heavy attack and deffence?
Every mechanic is dumb and retarded when you break it down into it's core components
the trik is to make the end product better than the sum of it's parts
>>723637893
case and point

>>723638051
>needle upgrades
You can't reach Act 3 unless you get the first needle upgrade. It's required to unlock the pale oil wish from the smith, as well as the Bellhart rosary donation quest, both of which are prerequisites for Silk and Soul.
>t. looked it up after realising Silk and Soul wasn't triggering on my first playthrough

>>723637906
>The shit bosses that block progression do need tools, and require tedious grinding to keep working.
theres literally no boss that 'needs' red tools
>>723638547
listen lost lace fucking sucks because she can teleport into you if youre too aggressive but all things considered youre fighting lace for the 3rd time
also cant you just use Shaman if you want power without tools?

>>723638547
>give yourself a retarded self-imposed challenge for no reason
>claim that the retarded self-imposed challenge is the only "correct" way to play
>have problems defeating the final boss because of your retarded self-imposed challenge
>blame the game and "warn" everyone that the game doesn't cater to your retarded self-imposed challenge
lmao

post 'em

>>723638640
just no clip into the abyss retard

>>723638663
>lost lace fucking sucks
Lost Lace is god tier and punishes you for going full retard

>>723638745
>Self-imposed challenge
>When tools don't even fit with the game's combat and you need to remember to use them if you're playing "properly"
How the fuck do you even use half of them on bosses? When do you have the time to hang back for a second and throw stuff? All of the good bosses are a fast-paced dance that's built around melee and spacing / timing, projectiles clash with that.

>>723612743 (OP)
it's better then hollow knight in some aspects and weaker in other aspects, overall silksong is better but ultimately both are overrated with glaring problems

>>723638663
>lost lace fucking sucks because she can teleport into you if youre too aggressive
No she can't

>>723638745
Sounds like you needed to cheese the boss to beat it. If you used red tools to beat the boss, you didn't beat it. The tools did.
Welcome to the group of forever unskilled losers.
>>723638663
I like reaper.

>>723639110
>How the fuck do you even use half of them on bosses?
By pressing the buttons, like everything else?

>>723639218
so are you going to show us how you beat lost lace without tools? you do have proof to back up your claim... right?

>>723638796
>you didn't beat the game
poison damage is like 2~5 per tick and it ticks twice, that's fucking pathetic since most weapons do an easy 50~90 unoptimised and if optimised do shit like 130~200 iirc

>>723639218
If you think every boss can be beaten with just the nail then obviously it's the nail that's overpowered, so if you used it you didn't beat the game, obviously.

>>723639282
I have a screenshot of my completion screen. If you're asking me to stream me playing it again, I'd rather eat glass.

>>723612810
I thought Silksong was fine. But how the hell did people find hollow knight remotely decent? That game was complete shit. Felt like they forgot the gameplay, and it was finally added with silksong.

>>723612810

Objectively correct.

I tried playing Hollow Knight after Silksong and it was slow as fuck.

Team Cherry not only filtered the plebs but also caused me to GIT GUD.

>>723639319
You sound like a cultist.
If her base form was the undressed version she has in the slab, you might have a point.

>>723637906
>If you used tools you didn't beat the boss
>....except the bosses I needed to use them on! Those ones were just unfair!
Holy narcissism

>>723638796
The more I replay the game the more I realize cogfly is a suboptimal crutch. It's good for "free" damage against enemies darting around a lot, but is rarely the optimal tool choice.

>>723639537
Hey cultist. That's the whole point of my post. The shit bosses need to be cheesed with tools. The good ones don't.

>>723639495
>You sound like a cultist.
Says the literal YDNBTG rollslop cultist.

>>723638547
>I wasn't about to grind for an hour every few minutes to refuel the red tools
I've never had this issue. My shards were maxed out for most of my playthrough because I killed every enemy I passed 90% of the time, and I searched every nook and cranny so I rarely missed shard deposits or secrets. I've never felt the need to use the consumable shard items like the beast shard either, but I only really used tools during gauntlets and boss fights anyway (and I never had a hard time with either).
>>723638796
>weighted belt in YDBTG
Why? It's not overpowered in the slightest, and you wouldn't be remiss for not realising it was active. Also
>fractured mask in "alright in early game" (tanking 1 extra 2-mask hit before death is always relevant)
>longclaw, cheaper silk skills, and faster charge attacks in useless
>multibind, reserve bind, and spool extender (without all spool upgrades) not in the highest tier
>quick sling and tacks not in YDBTG

>>723638796
The you didn't beat the game tools are the strongest and hence should be at the top and not the bottom

>>723612743 (OP)
Wrong, it has dethroned Hollow Knight as the best metroidvania
>>723612810
This

>>723639584
>also if you call me out on calling every boss I needed to use tools on unfair being ridiculous you're a cultist
okay

>>723612743 (OP)
no
/thread

>>723639363
Sounds like you didn't actually beat the game...

>>723638796
Threefold pin is underrated. The basic throwing knife kunai actually has fairly high single-hit damage amongst tools (17), and the threefold is even better (14+3+3 iirc). It's fast and has a lot of ammo, you actually get good damage out of lining it up and spamming it.

Rune Rage is OP if you get it off. Higher damage than most spells, screenwide range that reaches around corners and through solid objects, can hit multiple targets on opposite edges of the screen, cheeses bosses with multiple weak points (Bell Eater lmao), and bullies fatties.

Why the hell are Pale Nails so low? They're an easy as fuck source of extra damage that outdoes most tools without costing any shards, the casting animation is like half a second long and they home and fire independently.

Thread Storm at the top and every other spell at the bottom because "muh DPS" is a shitter opinion.

>>723639584
No boss needs tools to beat let alone ever requiring cheese, the fact you think they do proves you're just bad at the game

>>723638631
good combat isnt some black-and-white formula and games can be fun, but when tons of action games are having very one-dimensional defense in very similar ways to eachother, it gets incredibly stale
in silksong, the attacks the enemy made preceding their current attack actually matters, your situation changes things and i found myself responding to attacks in unusual ways because i was in uncomfortable spots. In something like 9S, 90% the enemy attacks will boil down to the exact same answer no matter what your circumstance is, which i find a little stale but its still better than average
But case in point, i cant get myself to enjoy 9S's combat (primarily a simpler/dumbed down version of sekiro that is held back by boring things like the bland estus clone that dont fit the game) anywhere as much as hollow knight or silksong (their ACTUAL own combat with everything meant to synergize with their own features)

Souls games are unironically also proof. Yeah Elden Ring is very reliant on iframes and sometimes simon says answers (like jumping over attacks), but its still filled with
>multihit attacks and combos that simply cannot be rolled out without concern for hitboxes because it will catch you, requiring you to dodge in good directions
>much more encouragement to try to evade without needing to roll
>even attacks that require rolling sometimes having less one-dimensional answers
>generally more possibility to jump over and duck under attacks that arent specifically meant for it
As opposed to the average souls clone, or something like DS3 with Slave Knight Gael and Nameless King, where the i-frame defense is comically one-dimensional

>Every mechanic is dumb and retarded when you break it down into it's core components
its somewhat true if you argue in bad faith, but not at all in good faith

>>723612743 (OP)
Lack of positive heterosexual pairings can only be viewed as an indictment of Silksong's society, but it still strikes one as odd.

There's not a single father-figure character in the entire game. Everyone's relationship to the males are broken (Groal, Ant society esp.) or have strange communal relations with no clear father figures (fleas).

The main big bad is a woman that desires children with zero influence from men. Ending up with psychotic, useless/sterile offspring

>>723639595
turning off recoil after you hit an enemy is a scrub "waaah i don't like it" sort of move, like opting for a crest without a diagonal pogo
fractured mask gets powercrept as you get more masks - gradually blue crest slots give you a lot more than 1/2 masks of value. in particular reserve bind is basically strictly beter

>>723639593
I hate what the Souls series has done to gaming and despise anything like it.
HK was a tough but fair metroidvania like the ones from the 90s. I did literally everything but the pantheon and loved it.
SS is meant solely for the kind of people with no life that can 112% hitless speedrun steel soul in HK. The developers even admitted as much. It's not meant to be enjoyed in any meaningful sense of the word.

>>723639802
thread storm also deletes projectiles bruv
it's a good defensive layer

>>723640050
>SS is meant solely for the kind of people with no life that can 112% hitless speedrun steel soul in HK.
I didn't do anything like that in HK and I enjoyed SS more.
Maybe stop projecting.

>>723639838
Or maybe you're one of the losers that only play one game for seven years so your entire personality becomes wrapped up in it. Being able to hitless steel soul a game is not something you should base your personality on.
I loved HK. I loathe SS.

>>723640280
Uh oh schizo melty

>>723640050
HK was easy as fuck though

>>723639093
>going full retard
hammering the enemy and landing as many attacks as possible is the most rewarding way to play the game since HK1
even ignoring that, i cant call lost lace 'god tier' because for every good addition, she has 2 additions that just make the fight slower and pad it out
>that one attack where you spend 10 seconds waiting for the sawblades to travel from one side of the arena to the other while she disappears from the arena
who thought that was fun??

>not rewarding enough with resources, and conversely its too easy to farm trash mobs and bypass this
>tools are completely broken or complete shit depending on above point
>act 2 is way too big/spread out, they should have broken up act 2 into act 2 and 3 somehow, and had a truly hidden act 4
>annoying runbacks for the sake of it, sometimes

>>723640313
So I was right about the steel soul thing.
The developers even admitted they made the game for you losers at the expense of literally everyone else.

>>723639584
can you name one boss that like 'needs' to be cheesed with tools by whatever your definition of 'needs' is

>>723640420
No >>723640171

>>723640280
Sorry you're bad at the game but that doesn't mean bosses require tools to beat, please post one boss that does because they can all be defeated with the pin obviously be intent as you don't have to equip tools

>>723640319
At least it was fun.

>>723640485
SS is more fun thoughbeit

Man I haven't played this game in2 days and now I don't remember what I was doing or where I was going
Do you play with the dpad or the stick? I feel like the dpad is better for this game, at least path of pain was easier with dpad, using a dualsense

>>723640463
Yes
https://www.reddit.com/r/Silksong/comments/1o4c5a8/if_youre_upset_at_silksongs_difficulty_remember/

>>723640625
>reddit
Uh oh schizo melty

Silksong is for trannies, Hollow Knight is for masculine chads.

>>723640507
If you find cortisol and kaizo shit fun, then sure.

>>723639584
>shit bosses
This is a completely arbitrary distinction. "shit boss" might as well be "boss I can't beat immediately", except you resort to tool spam instead of learning the boss' moves and patterns to improve at the fight (as any respectable player would). You're essentially throwing a shitfit because you couldn't first-time the boss, and instead of getting better at the fight, you justify cheapening the experience for yourself by artificially reducing the difficulty with tools.
>>723639979
Fractured masks' strength is that it's always active, and unlike reserve bind, it doesn't require you to stop damaging enemies to reap its benefits. Reserve bind also carries a risk of getting hit and not healing at all. Fractured Mask is essentially an 11th mask that occasionally functions as a 12th against 2-mask hits once you're down to 1 regular mask. There's no build that wouldn't receive a greater benefit from Fractured Mask than they would with most other blue tools.

>>723640687
Watch the video, retard. It's the developer laughing about making the game for losers that only played Hollow Knight for 7 years

>>723640691
But jokes aside, anyone who started with Silksong without playing Hollow Knight first is a tranny 100%.

>>723640836
Don't need to because I can just play the game and judge it for myself.

Beast not getting Blue slots still fucks with me

>>723639282
>so are you going to show us how you beat lost lace without tools?
Not him, and it's a bit sloppy, but here you go
https://files.catbox.moe/gyufpi.mp4

>>723629472
>The Radiance penetrated the bugs of Hallownest through dreams, whereas GMS accomplishes the same through silk. Yet there is a problem. While everyone dreams (except Zote), not everyone has been cruelly injected with silk—especially not the Skarr ants. So why are they also haunted ? Does the game ever account for this ?
But they are haunted. (But the Skarr ants of the past are not, which is why you can't bind them your music in the memory. Same goes for the choral crust knights.)

>>723640821
I basically didn't use red tools at all for any of the game because the shit bosses depleted my shards so quickly I had to fight with just the needle, where the good bosses were fun so I didn't want to use tools.
If you used red tools, you didn't beat the boss.

>>723640280
>I loved HK. I loathe SS.
You're the same kind of retard who cries that From dared to make a new game after DaS1 and so all of your very specific game knowledge was not fully transferable and now you have to actually try again

>>723640924
Because you're one of the losers the game was balanced for. Fuck everyone else that just wanted a fun game to play.

>>723612743 (OP)
Haven't touched Silksong in weeks since I grew tired of the runbacks. Still on Last Judge and have no urge to continue.

>>723641141
Yeah, fuck you

>>723641068
I loathe the souls series and what it did to gaming. I have never and will never play that jankfest bullshit.

>>723641141
No >>723640171

>>723639547
Which ones are good then? I thought Cogflies had some of the highest damage per use, didn't they?

>>723641184
CONCH'd

>>723612743 (OP)
Absolutely

>>723641214
You are transexual and you should reconsider suicide

>>723641184
And it never gets any better. You did yourself a favor.

>>723641184
That's a shame since you only scratched the surface of it. But it might be for the best if you found that runback bad. There's only one other runback that I can think of is worse but the rest of the game only gets harder

>>723641184
>>723641343
The last judge run back is like 1 minute tops. It's also not even a very hard boss as long as you remember to equip the magma bell

>>723640821
Fractured Mask is bad and is preparing for failure, if you get that low in the first place one extra hit is unlikely to make a difference as you've managed to get hit so many times already, I'm sure it has saved people sometimes but it's not something you should be relying on over improving your gameplay plus it does nothing when you're good enough not to need it

>>723618843
>>fence sitter
Brown man detected. Please don't insult your superiors Diego.

>>723641315
Getting to the end screen of bullshit video games that steal your life away because the developer is a sadist is not an accomplishment.
I recommend spending time at your local park, or regaining the ability to touch your toes.

>>723641343
Thats a lie. End of chapter 1 is the worste. Than it gets good again before falling off a cliff.

>>723641402
1 minute, maybe a dozen or so times or more, when in a well designed game it would be zero minutes.
This game is designed from the ground up to waste the player's time and be frustrating. I'm happy the guy I responded to isn't going to waste his time on it like I did because I expected the fun to start at some point.

>>723641496
>Getting to the end screen of bullshit video games that steal your life away because the developer is a sadist
These games are moderately challenging, not kaizo mario bullshit. This isn't "I want to be the guy", it's like, NES megaman level of challenge. Also I guarantee that I'm fitter than you because I don't throw a fucking tantrum over anything requiring more than zero effort.

>>723632515
Since godseeker ending appears to be canon, and vessels are immortal, this nigga still alive. DLC boss?

>>723612743 (OP)
silksong's fighting and movement are way better
in other respects though it's a downgrade. story, music, the overworld, lore, rewards, hollow knight is superior. especially the story part, it cannot be understated how disappointing it is to go from the hollow knight as the central character to lace

>>723641765
>when in a well designed game it would be zero minutes.
Your idea of good game design is stupid and wrong

>>723641768
Sure you are.

Why are the maps less tunnely? They were like labyrinths in hollow knight

>>723641838
Funny how even the bastards that foisted this kaizo bullshit onto the gaming world have removed runbacks from their games because only jobless losers without any other source of accomplishment like them.

>>723637542
Everyone I disagree with is le tranny.

>>723642112
Because the movement is now more aerial focused and the general goal is now going up as opposed to going down.

>>723641613
So long as we can agree that it's overall a shit gaming experience.

>>723642112
Probably thought they overdid it before and Hornet's movement options are better suited for more open areas. Wormways, Underworks and the Slab are still pretty tight

>>723642162
>kaizo
>have removed runbacks from their games
Anon, I already know you have no idea what you're talking about. You don't need to go that extra mile to convince me.

>>723642278
While making aerial enemies even harder to hit than in HK.

>>723641420
1 extra hit is substantial in a game where 5 hits can kill you (assuming you have max masks in the first place). Fractured Mask allows you to recuperate and damage the enemy using the ensuing i-frames to subsequently heal. Fractured Mask has saved my ass on several occasions during the Act 3 bosses, and it's been a godsend during my Steel Soul runs.
>it's not something you should be relying on over improving your gameplay
The same can be said for almost every other blue tool, though. It's just that the benefit of Fractured Mask is more substantial than that of most other blue tools, save for multibind or spool extender (without maxed out spool), and arguably warding bell or injector band.

>game is focused on CLIMBING and ASCENDING
>the are no good climbing sections other than Mount Fay
>the final climb of the Citadel is just taking an elevator up
>the map is a lot more wide than it is tall
wtf were they thinking

I'm about 5 hours in and I'm still having fun so far.

>>723642365
You must be autistic so I'll spell it out.
Kaizo==unfair spiteful bullshit
Even the assholes that pioneered replacing joy and fun with unfair spiteful bullshit have recognized that runbacks are a step too far.

>>723641496
It is absolutely hilarious that modern gamers are so absolutely brainfucked that a game that would be considered a mild challenge in the 90s is now considered "kaizo sadism." I guarantee you don't even know what "kaizo" means.

>>723642585
You're about 10% of the way there, Anon. I hope the fun doesn't run out once you hit Act 3.

>>723642427
No? Aerial enemies are a joke in Silksong compared to Hollow Knight.

Hollow Knight's 'Final Act'
>descend into The Abyss (LUDOKINO)
>witness baby genocide
>lifeblood room, abyss shriek room
>using your gathered essence from dream versions of major bosses to get the Ascended Kino Nail so you can enter the White Palace
>unique platforming focused area like nothing else in the game
>discover the pale kings' intentions and justifications
>then go to Queen's Gardens for further insight and the other white fragment
>descend into the abyss to REVNITE THE VOID and become the LORD OF KINO
>fight hollow knight again
>hornet joins the fight and cracks his skull for you to dream nail him and access his mind to fight the infection
>the radiance is an unique boss
>drag her into the void rape lake with all your void niggas

Silksong's 'Final Act'
>starts kino, descending the ruined place Bell Beast fight etc
>descend to abyss thinking its gonna be a fleshed out area like TC wanted for HK1
>actually its even shallower than HK1's abyss except not as cool lol
>ok now go do a random boss rush
>4 random shoehorned niggas that have literally no plot whatsoever in their own self contained meme dream area
>now theres a heart of a faggot eternally beating inside your home lol tough luck
>go back to the abyss
>its just lace again except now she has a few time wasting attacks, double contact damage, and slightly less visual clarity

holy mother of downgrades

>>723642427
Why do morons forget about clawline and taunt?

>>723642162
>Funny how even the bastards that foisted this kaizo bullshit onto the gaming world
It's a 1 minute long run back with 4 (four) enemies

>>723642626
Yes, friend, I understood what you meant. I'm just pointing out you're objectively wrong.

The game is really good but Act 3 is kind of ass. The changes are almost all cosmetic except shitter mobs deal 2x damage and are 3x tankier. Wormways getting lifeblooded was cool though.

>>723642715
I like how you had to skip over the queen's garden in one bullet point since it's a giant break in the pacing and tone

>>723641006
>>723639282
Well faggot are you going to respond to getting BTFO or not?

>>723642745
The Last Judge runback is 25 seconds long (without double jump) and there is just 2 enemies you have to dodge. At one point you turn left, go up a wall, pogo and skip a huge part of the runback.

>>723642310
Yes, absolute tranny game >>723641292

>>723642491
>The same can be said for almost every other blue tool, though
I don't think so, I mean there are a lot of ones that rely on you to get hit to have an effect but there's still enough others that I'd use over them Longclaw, Volt Filament, Weavelight and the flea one. I won't deny that there weren't opportunities where having one extra hit would have let me live and let me play more aggresive from not worrying about being one hit away from death but I don't think they're that numerous. I would also rather heal the damage than get into that low health to begin with too so maybe that's why it doesn't appeal to me

>>723642847
The queens' gardens is a perfectly fun nice area with fleshed out paths, nonlinearity, multiple points of entrance and many little things to find. Theres nothing out of the ordinary and it needs no explanation

Meanwhile silksong act 3 doesnt have a SINGLE new area that isnt a minuscle, self contained, shallow shoehorned silly unfitting place. We used to think the Hive from HK1 was shallow but silksong managed to feature a whole 6 areas less fleshed out than the hive.

>>723642630
I'm truly glad you're one of the hitless steel soul speedrunners the game was balanced for.

>>723642715
Yeah gotta admit hollow knight had a better final act. Silksong's felt rushed

>>723642920
He was specifically asking the guy saying that it was impossible to beat bosses without tools and that if you used tools you didn't beat the game, everyone knows you can do it toolless

>>723643003
I think act 3 was a kind of a mishmash of shit they cut and stuffed in the end to make sure it was included. I don't think it's really thought out.

>>723643003
Verdania is literally just a better queen's garden

>>723643031
Kek. Sad part is the fucker wont even get it.

>>723641292
Absolute perfection

>>723629093
>playing silksong for the story
Fuck off moviegamer

>>723643178
I forgot to post this pic.

>>723643105
>dashing into normal attack instead of the cool dashing stab that gives you more range and lets you attack faster out of it
whyyy

How do y'all play shitty games like this? It looks like a 12yo made it.

>>723642737
Because taunt was never explained in game. You only hear about it on YouTube, which is shit game design. I shouldn't need anything but the game to explain itself.
And how is the claw line of any use when the enemy is so high on the screen you can't reach it, but it can aimbot you with its projectiles.

>>723643362
I don't really use dash attacks because I'm used to the Beast one flinging you at the enemy, does Hunter's really not take away any control from you, you always got to be ready in case she does that bullshit spin attack

>>723643156
>10 minute long linear theme park with no secrets, no interesting new things to acquire, the meme deer and a recycled boss
>better than a fully fleshed area with character interactions, kino benches, love key, traitors' grave and the end of the flower quest, CHAD MARMU, traitor lord and the white whore
i dont appreciare tou

>>723643335
I've been hearing a lot about this one. I think I'll give it a shot.

>>723643571
>He needs a game for children explained to him

>>723643156
>self contained area locked behind a faggot
>boss at the end is a reskin of an earlier boss
Hmm

>>723643571
Taunt is never explained but it's a borderline easter egg. The claw line is almost always useful because it you can do chain 3 to 4 attack combos with it and gain silk. Act 3 being so mid is sad though.

>>723642920
I'd rather eat glass than play another second of this game. And if I posted my completion screen, it still wouldn't be enough, so whatever. I'll just continue playing fun games and warning people away from this pile of shit.

>>723643683
I hope you're not a parent then.

>>723612743 (OP)
Gameplay is mostly better, vibes / story / worldbuilding don’t hit the same.
This anon is correct >>723612846 . Godhome DLC for Silksong has high kino potential.

>>723643779
Act 3 was the culmination of all the bad choices they made. More tanky standard enemies. More traversal halting bullshit. More bullshit gauntlets.

>>723642505
>the final climb of the Citadel is just taking an elevator up
Reaching the Cradle and GMS's room is pretty climactic, albeit piss-easy from a platforming perspective. It's not too different from HK's climb up from the abyss, though.
>the map is a lot more wide than it is tall
HK was about descending, and the map was wider than it was tall, too. The Abyss is comparable to the Cradle in size. None of these are significant complaints.
>>723642715
>>723643003
>>723643084
>>723643125
7 years and it still came out half-baked and underwhelming. Glad people are starting to realise this. Such a shame.
>>723643214
Silksong's story is worse != he played Silksong for the story, retard-kun.
>>723643547
>graphicsfagging in Anno Domini MMXXV
Why don't you play the game and find out?
>>723643579
Hunter's dash props you up in the air, so it can be comboed into a pogo or a regular slash on taller enemies to hit them twice in quick succession.

>>723643579
its really just a quick dashing stab, though it sends you a bit upwards after it

>>723641420
>This tired old "I don't plan on getting hit" argument that utter retards use
Yawn.

>>723643935
I'll be your daddy if you want.

>>723644152
Is it not a reasonable argument? You don't want to get hit and if you are getting hit having Injector Band, Reserve Bind or Multibinder is more valuable than one extra hit when you're about to die. If I could have it for free I'd take it, I can see the value in it, I just don't place it higher than other blues let alone the ones that aren't based around getting hit

>>723643646
100k 95% score on steam.
I simp becuase hes from the same coke head town I lived in for 2 years.

>>723643752
The boss of queen's garden is a big fat faggot with 3 moves

>>723612810
lolwut, HK shits all over Silksong, I haven't been this bored with a game I SHOULD love in forever, after 6 hours of gameplay all I've got regarding upgrades is the sprint/dash. Fucking awful pacing

>>723644112
Act 3 is my only huge gripe though. If they fix it with DLC, I'd think the game is nearly perfect. The other issues are minor in comparison. It just sucks it's the player's last impression of the game.

>>723643624
Marumu is a dogshit boss, the flower quest is gay, and the traitor lord is not very good. Also Verdania is no more linear than queen's garden

I liked Knight's moveset and skills far more than Hornet's. He had a better moveset, better spells, better charm attacks and vastly superior charms.
A fucking Sharpdart is just an inferior Sharp Shadow, that's how bad it is.

Daily brown people seething about silksong thread.

>>723644414
Unique boss > reskin
Clover dancers also has 3 moves by the way

>>723644414
Still more than the Green Faggot, who can only slash directionally and occasionally create a whirlwind with his homo magic.
>>723644450
>after 6 hours of gameplay all I've got regarding upgrades is the sprint/dash
HK had a similarly slow progression, though. It typically takes 4 hours to get the dash on a first playthrough, and at least another 3 to get the wall jump in HK.

>>723644950
>Clover dancers also has 3 moves by the way
3 kinds of moves. In practice it has enormous variety

>>723644383
I'm generally in your camp, I prefer tools that enhance success instead of mitigating failure. But that's probably based on my point view that "Beating a game" means I have a strong grasp of core mechanics and that I "know" enemy behavior. Other people just think "I beat the game" means getting to the end of a section. In which case Failure mitigation is often more useful than Success Enhancement.

Despite what people say someone who stacks poison cogflies, or spams stacked Witch Crest has beaten the game to the same extent someone who beat each boss using only basic needle strikes. The latter probably has a deeper knowledge of each enemy's moveset but the former probably has fundamentally more consistent "success" in regards to completing gauntlets and bosses in the minimum amount of runs.

>>723618570
The game is great. Play Blasphemous if you want 'mid'.

>>723643105
I don't think I even used tools or spells in hollow knight and I beat everything so I got used to that playstyle (did use quick nail and long nail though, also dash master and the sprint one) but it was mostly because I wanted the soul to heal, and I didn't realize how powerful spells were. I read some spells are worth like 18 nail hits or some shit.
I need to start using tools in this game not because they're good but because I'm ignoring half the mechanics of the game, sometimes I try to use the shaw attack but I press circle instead and I heal in the face of the enemy and get hit

>>723644387
It's even on sale on Steam. Getting it right now.

i put them on the same level. HK1's world is more memorable to explore but Silksong's gameplay is just straightup more fun. I've been loading up my save to beat Lost Lace again every other day

Is soul and silk the quest to get to the next act? Not sure if I should finish the other quests I still have left before that.

>>723645269
Yes and Some quests are harder in act 3

>>723645269
Act 3 quest only procs when you've done every other Act 2 exclusive quest so you don't have to worry about missing anything

>>723645269
If that's the "get 3 soul shits from my relatives quest" than yeah. You have to beat the boss after so you can finish the quest anyway.

>>723645332
If that includes the deliveries I think I'm just skipping these forever, the dumb rasher was already bad enough.

>>723619090
The game ISN'T hard though.

>>723619982
So name your 8/10 soulslike Metroidvanias. Don't say Salt n Sanctuary or Blasphemous.

>>723645498
You only need to do that meat delivery quest. Two of them are infinitely respawning "rosary farms" but they should be removed from game tbqh. The other two are for lore or very mild rewards.

>>723645498
Deliveries are just repeatable quests for rosary farming, anyway. You can safely ignore all of them except the rasher, queen's egg, and liquid lacquer, and even then, only the Courier's rasher gives you a proper reward, that being pale oil.

>>723645707
Moonscars

>>723640420
As someone not addicted to Hollow Knight they just made it for non brain damaged people that can actually learn from their mistakes and don't piss and shit and blame the game for everything

>>723644450
The irony is that people shit on HK because they spend the same amount of time getting from the start of the game through Greenpath and get lost constantly.
On a second run of Silksong, you should be at the Citadel within around 3-4 hours.

>>723645126
Actually never mind. It's a literal tranny game. Maybe that's why I don't have it already.

>>723645068
Actually I guess you could argue the opposite and that failure mitigation is naturally more useful to those limiting themselves to a more narrowed down toolset and who thus rely on learning since More Time Fighting = More Time to Learn.

Whatever, just have fun. I build my Crests around thematic builds regardless of what's actually good.

>>723646051
All games are tranny in 2025. Filtered

>>723645984
I don't know what you're on about. I played Hollow Knight once to 102% or whatever it was and haven't touched it since. I was looking for a similar experience, but instead got a kick in the nards.

>>723617107
>The only way you can claim silk song is actually hard is if you play like a retard and don't dash, don't claw line, don't use tools, don't use silk abilities.
This. It's so funny how quickly people get outed as retarded casuals. Any time I read people crying about games becoming cinematic, getting dumbed down, or practically playing themselves, I remember that these same people almost guaranteed get filtered by any game that involves more than just mashing an attack button.

>>723646206
>I played Hollow Knight once to 102%
You missed out on a lot of cool bosses go back and play godhome

>>723646192
Remember when we all got tricked into fucking a blonde Tranny in Witcher 3.
That doesnt get talked about enough.

>>723646192
Less every day thank God. It saves me a ton of money.

>>723641420
>>723644383
Fractured mask is a bit more powerful than you suggest because if it's your last mask it fully absorbs a hit no matter how much damage that hit is, and even multi-hit attacks won't kill you through the broken mask. This makes it almost equivalent to 2 full extra masks against most bosses (and actually equivalent to 2 full extra masks against bosses with double contact damage), which is quite strong. Once you get a lot more normal masks it becomes less meaningful but is fantastic in the early game, especially considering you don't have a lot of other great options.

>>723618040
this guy is the type of faggot to defend weapon durability because "it's heckin' plot relevant"

>>723646206
This

>>723646286
I tried but I had no interest in spending as much time on them as I did the base game for nothing more than a new cutscene

>>723646397
I like it for the realism and the resource management.

>>723644383
>Is it not a reasonable argument?
No it's not. Everyone makes mistakes, and Silksong especially is a game that punishes mistakes severely. You might have a leg to stand on if the game was easier, but here it just makes you look like a boastful 12 year old. "Oh look at me I'm such a god gamer that never gets hit, I don't need CRUTCHES I use the good stuff"

Also, the list of blue charms that actually provide a unique offensive benefit are fairly small. Volt Filament is the main one really, everything else is a "crutch" to some degree. You could just as easily say that Longclaw is shit because you plan on spacing properly and not whiffing any attacks.

I get the arguent that you don't need defensive charms when you get good at a boss, and that your winning attempts can often be hitless or near it, but you still need the def charms to help get to that point.

>>723612810
Feepers beepers. I still can't believe people are still getting this filtered by being required to pay basic levels of attention to a game.

>>723629131
>Final boss gets reused TWICE
>Garbage final boss
Agreed, DMC3 sucks.

>>723646319
I dont wanna talk about it...

>>723612743 (OP)
>>723612810
Saying HK is better is astroturfing to reduce Silksong's chances at winning GOTY and it worked. Brazen astroturfing is going to be the norm going forward.
Anyway Silksong is a direct upgrade in every way, except the charm system changed so that's a side-grade.

>>723637647
First sinner was a joke. Carmel hussy is one of the toughest bosses.

Please give me back the Snare Setter in Act 3. Not just because it's a good trap but because it fit perfectly into the Hunter-Weaver build I had and my autism is annoyed because none of the other Red Tools have that perfect silvery sheen that matches the rest of my kit.

For the same reason I want the ability to change between the forms of Silkshot. Twelth Architect's version isn't even good, I just want it to match the rest of my Architect build.

>>723646614
>You could just as easily say that Longclaw is shit because you plan on spacing properly and not whiffing any attacks.
Longclaw allows you to play around its extra range even if you could theoretically also just get closer, it gives you more options to exploit, one extra hit only gives you an extra option where tanking one more hit from the boss would make or break the fight which I find unlikely to happen often over just not getting hit once. And I'm not saying I don't make mistakes, I used Multibinder and Injector Band for my first playthrough which I find even alone much more impactful than Fractured Mask because they're not one time only and you can get benefit from them throughout the entire fight

>>723640748
>Silksong
>kaizo

>>723644690
Shadow Dash was such a cool fucking final upgrade. You don't realize how well an iframe dash works with the game's bosses until you use it for a while and it starts to click. It works great with the lore too, how all of your strongest upgrades are Void-enhanced.

Loved how the knight would literally disappear into the shadows sometimes. Dark background with lots of screen clutter made it look like you blipped out of existence for a second.

>>723646981
sorry nigga. 3rd act tarnishes the game. hk > silksong

>>723646319
>Don't like blondes
>Bullet dodged.

Thank you, Jesus.

>>723646981
you're mentally ill

>>723647202
>You don't realize how well an iframe dash works with the game's bosses until you use it for a while and it starts to click.
>You don't realize how well an iframe dash works in a game with contact damage
>when it can phase directly through attacks and even enemies
> You don't realize
huh

>>723647193
Stop cheesing the bosses with broken builds and maybe you'll see how awful the experience actually is.

>>723638745
This is like if that one autist that played Mario 64 thousands of hours with no a presses constantly cried that it was the hardest game ever and that the game was shit because of it.

>>723647258
Act 3 doesn't even change anything besides making enemies deal more damage. It's just a way to reuse the current map in a very atmospheric way in order to add a few new bosses and power-ups.

>>723646441
You get to fight new bosses that's the reward who cares about the secret ending

>>723647534
>most popular build is playing the game exactly like HK
Is this a roundabout way of you claiming the first game is shit?

>>723646319
i jerked off to that

>>723647609
If you didn't beat the boss without cheesing them with red tools, you didn't beat the boss. The tools did. Try playing the game before you give it a 10/10 like some kind of games journalist.

>>723647774
In 7 years they couldn't come up with anything better.

>>723647174
>Longclaw allows you to play around its extra range even if you could theoretically also just get closer, it gives you more options to exploit
Oh PLEASE, now you're just typing vague, fanciful bullshit. I challenge you to provide a SINGLE fucking example where the few extra pixels-worth of range gives you an attack opportunity that's completely unavailable without it.

The vast majority of charms are "crutches" of some sort, you just want to look down your nose at the defensive ones because you think it makes you look good. Ugh.

>>723647614
"Act 3 doesn't even change anything besides making enemies deal more damage."
that's why it's ass. only wormways changes in a cool way.

I wasted time looking around for stuff being opened up in old areas but really it's just a boss rush and some back tracking.

>>723647372
You'd be surprised how many people don't realize that they can dash through bosses to avoid attacks. You spend the whole game without it learning to jump away to dodge stuff, learning a new thing isn't super obvious.

So is Witch or Hunter the more kino crest

>>723648130
>>723643105
At 23 seconds I miss an attack because I don't have Longclaw and if I had gotten closer I'd have gotten hit by the spin, actually I miss a lot of attacks because I'm so used to it. And yes considering the first game had Radiant bosses where a lot of defensive items served no purpose I think it's a good idea to be planning around not having them

I think they just gave it really artificial difficulty and that would be the only bad point, all of the previous systems HK had before were expanded and given depth too.
>inb4 git gud
I got 100% in 80 hours i think i got the right to know what i'm saying.

>>723648220
>I wasted time
Silksong in a nutshell.

>>723648431
Tranny game built for autusts

>>723648308
>You'd be surprised how many people
I'm not but a lot of people are pants shittingly retarded. That doesn't change what I posted nor my point that it's extremely obvious.
Don't conflate
>most people lack basic thinking skills
with
>new thing isn't super obvious

>>723648220
And that's exactly why it doesn't tarnish the game. It's no inverted castle but it's a way to advance the plot while making you feel things changed as you revisit areas with the new skill you just got in the new area.

Why do people keep saying the music is worse? Silksong's OST is generally more atmospheric than HK's was, but it has plenty of memorable tracks and is far moodier overall, which I strongly prefer to fit the overall more dour and oppressive tone of the game
https://youtu.be/Ly-F2NK7Q8M?si=8stAb-6tCOzxpn5Z
https://youtu.be/_hM_Hp37By0?si=FInA-fVYaUYTbIwm

>>723648431
see
>>723646281
It's funny because they are even literally called
>tools
and most of them make the game a complete joke.
>I got 100% in 80 hours
>in 80 hours
Is that intended to be read as a joke?

>>723648641
Oh no i didn't got 100% in your timeframe i'm so sorry should i grovel and suck your cock too?

>>723641056
Did the thought not occur to you to fight without red tools until you at least reach the last phase? I don't see how you could run out of shards unless you're either retarded or you skip every enemy you can and never explore, like a speed tranny.

>>723648814
>Axewound
ftfy

>>723648814
You were the one bringing it up and trying to use it as proof of something.

>>723612743 (OP)
I though the game was just Hollow Knight, but harder.
Then I was captured by a NPC and throw in jail, getting infected by a parasite and had a Inverted Castle SOTN scenario for the true ending, with a fake out and unlocking only after you go back to the save file.
Not to mention the kino interaction with NPCs, tragic events, tough but rewarding battles, one of the best and rewarding escape sequence, emotional story and an ending that connects the lore to the original HK.

Silksong not only is better than Hollow Knight, its the best Metroidvania ever, surpassing even Super Metroid.

>>723648541
I was originally commenting on how well the Shadow Dash meshes with the boss design in specific ways. A good example is how it trivializes Enraged Crystal Guardian. It's not just about contact damage, there's lots fo neat dodges and manoeuvres you can learn for specific bosses if you spend some time in Godhome.

>>723648994
>It's not just about contact damage
Right which is why my post said more than just contact damage.

>>723648924
trannies live rent free on your head brother, you should check that up bc you'll start taking HRT in no time.

>>723648971
One niggle, hollow knight is also better than super metroid

>>723648641
You've made me realize that the people that love this game are neets without anything holding them back from grinding this game or games like it for 18 hours a day. They don't value their time so the very concept of wasting time doesn't register in their mind.
People with a life are going to look like mouth breathing morons by comparison when they play this game.

>>723648617
SS's OST just rarely reaches the heights of Greenpath, City of Tears, or The White Palace. HK is chock full of memorable tracks. Even comparing Enter Hallownest to Enter Pharloom, the difference in quality is clear. Same for Dirtmouth and Bonebottom, or the main menu themes of both games. HK's OST beats SS's out in almost all cases, especially if you consider the DLC with Grimm and GPZ's themes.

>>723648971
>>723649101
both are inferior to Rabi-Ribi

>>723648590
i don't really feel the world changes though - it's a cosmetic reskin of the map. nothing is actually changed.

the new skill is ass unfortunately. it's 99% a contrivance for the main quest. if it opened up crazy shit i'd think it's awesome, but the extra stuff is: a flea and some lore. it needs serious work. it's the game's only actual flaw.

>>723648130
Wanderer with longclaw is almost a must.

>>723649108
>inventing fantasy people in your head to cope with the possibility that someone else in the world may be better than you at a video game.
OK

>>723648856
There is literally no way of knowing without looking it up to know when the endless bullshit will end. I also have no interest in letting the game play itself.
If you didn't beat the boss without red tools, you didn't beat the boss. The tools did.

>>723649258
So you're saying I'm right. Mighty big of you to acknowledge that.

>>723648962
that the game has flaws?

>>723649264
>there is no way to have critical thinking
So that's why your life is the way it is, huh.
NTA just a passing observation, enjoy the shitposting.

my problem with the game is the lack of upgrades. i am at the end of the game just beat the red ant lady and finally obtained the ash blossom heart thing. which is just a le story item so fuck it. and it feels like ages forever since i got any kind of upgrade. the final nail upgrade did jackshit. i have one shit mask upgrade to look forward to... woop. what's wrong with giving some powerful boost to mess around with? and the worst thing about hollow shite was that a lot of the end game bosses made any of your upgrades useless.

>>723648962
that the game has flaws? are you that dense?

>>723649374
>Confusing what you read with the voices in your head.

>>723649137
You just have a child's taste and prefer when the melody is more obvious

>>723649390
>>723649468
>1 minute apart

I just lost 8 hours of Steel Soul to the second Beastfly. It wasn't a close fight either, I was off my game from the start.

Weirdly I didn't feel angry or pained at all even when it happened, I think doing SS "properly" and dying in a completely fair way really takes the edge off. If I was cheating by quitting when I was reaching 1 HP and I simply had a brainfart during the fight I would probably feel way worse.

>>723649176
The thing is that the cosmetic reskin of the map into something dark, the constant roaring of GMS in the background, and every other enemy getting fucked by the void thing DOES in fact contribute a lot to feeling the world has changed and that everything's fucked. But yeah sure gameplay-wise not much changes indeed other than enemies and a few maps.
Anyway, my entire point is that with all of this in mind, saying that act 3 tarnishes the game is kind of fucking retarded.

>>723649645
>Anyway, my entire point is that with all of this in mind, saying that act 3 tarnishes the game is kind of fucking retarded.
Not him. Act 3 tarnishes the game.

>>723649713
And that's why you're kind of fucking retarded.

>>723649137
>he never heard the interlude in choral chambers

>>723649645
>Flea festivities constantly interrupted by blood-curdling screams and earthquakes

>>723649794
Act 3 sucks. Sorry. Go jerk off to vaguely antropormphic napkin Lace.

>>723649645
it's worse than act 1 and act 2 so it leaves people with a worse impression. it tarnishes the game in that sense. the game is still peak tho overall

>>723649634
I mean, you go out of your way to tell strangers online so clearly you do it out of a desire for external praise and validation.

>>723612743 (OP)
It's an absolute fucking dogshit game, but at least some fights are absolutely kino. I beat the first sinner a few hours ago, that shit was absolutely amazing

>>723612810
fpwp

>>723649137
City of Tears was definitely a high point, but I genuinely think Choral Chambers and especially High Halls are on par with it. Silksong's thematic progression is also pretty different from HK's and the music reflects that, in the first game you spend a pretty long stretch of time going through what feels like mostly untamed wilderness only to be hit with this huge, beautiful city with this gorgeous, peaceful, kind of sad piano piece playing and it's kind of an aweing moment. Whereas in Silksong there's much more evidence of civilization basically right from the start and you have the clear goal of reaching the Citadel along with most other bugs you meet, and you make this grand ascent through all these ruins and traces of the past, and climb the Blasted Steps which is made to feel like a truly arduous final challenge before you reach the promised land, and you finally succeed - only for the elevator to fail and drop you down into the Underworks, which are a hellish mechanical nightmare where bugs are worked to death in misery, rather than the glorious hallowed temple halls you'd been led the whole game up to that point to expect, and the miserable, dour music that plays is an incredibly stark contrast to the Blasted Steps music making you feel like you were climbing Mount Everest
I dunno, I just really liked that bait and switch way more than anything in HK, they spend a really long time building it up and I thought it worked

>>723649645
>Anyway, my entire point is that with all of this in mind, saying that act 3 tarnishes the game is kind of fucking retarded.
If the game is inviting me to play then there is an expectation that my play time will be respected and rewarded. If the game then goes to waste my time and make a fool of me by giving me disappointing content, I have a right to be pissed off with it.
If the argument is:
>LE JUST DONT PLAY IT THEN! STOP! PLAYING!
You can say that about any game. Anything. Ever. It's not some magical shield to protect it from being complained about.

>>723649848
>he doesn't want tentaclejobs from a haughty silk brat

>>723649391
Hours being stuck on phase 2 because I'm not a lifeless neet so I can't grind the boss for 16 hours.
I'm not willing to cheese it with tools because I want to play the game and not let it play itself like some kind of Mario autoscroller. Cheesing bosses with broken builds is equally as unfun as the endless bullshit.
Even if I was, not knowing if this is phase 2/10 like with high halls, I try anything to get through it and run out of shards. I don't want to grind because grinding died in games in the 90s. So I go with needle only with blue and yellow tools.
After hours of endless bullshit, it's over and I can rightfully complain and prevent as many other people as possible from sharing the same misery.

>>723649837
That was actually kino because it reinforced the fleas doing one last big celebration of life before the world ends.

>>723645269
Don't worry about doing everything you possibly can in act 2 before moving on to act 3. Nothing is missible and the only thing that happens is enemies very occassionally get pozzed by the void and take a couple of extra whacks.

>>723650018
You are trans.

>>723650030
>I take five minutes to figure out how to cross the street
>it's the street that's to blame
It sounds more like your parents/education system failed you. Any game can be dismissed on your basis if being played by a retard.

>>723649996
If you're playing videogames in first place, your free time doesn't deserve any respect. Stick to Candy Crush if the slightest amount of challenge and needing to retry anything makes you piss your pants.

>>723650168
YWNBAW

>>723650232
Lacetrannies are trannies yes.

>>723650030
If the devs give you gameplay mechanics with the intention that you will use those mechanics to overcome a challenge, it is your fault and only yours if you refuse to use those mechanics. It is not the devs' fault for not catering to your retarded self-imposed challenge.

>>723650289
>even saving pictures of tranny monsters
Stop projecting onto others.

>>723650338
You need to dilate with your tumblrtranny sisters.

>>723650176
When's the last time you played a game without being handheld by a wiki?

>>723650417
>NOOOOOOOOOO STOP EXPOSING MY ILK
no

>>723647258
Act 3 is just a small extra bonus for those looking for more challenge. It isn't even a full third of the game.

>>723650232
You make this? Very high IQ.

>>723650494
When I played Silksong the first time, including act 3.

>>723612810
Nope, awful final boss and artificial difficulty (jumping floating dashing slashing to avoid spikes)

>>723650179
>If you're playing videogames in first place, your free time doesn't deserve any respect
Really? do you really believe that? like if you think about it for a few minutes. I think you'll change your mind quickly, in which case we can forget this silly point was ever brought up.

>>723650494
When I beat Silksong on release.
Really didn't think about that, did you? Kind of proving my point that you may just be retarded

>>723650575
>platforming = artificial difficulty
You can't make this shit up...

>>723647970
Who said anything about cheesing? Normal use of your tool slots on non-architect crests is perfectly balanced.

>>723650624
Now finish him!

>>723650030
>Hours being stuck on phase 2 because I'm not a lifeless neet so I can't grind the boss for 16 hours
Boss took me at most 30 minutes first time lol and it was obviously shorter than that when you account for travel time and cutscenes, you just suck, you're acting like you can only beat it from grinding but you spent more time on it than me, I don't use tools either and this was reasonably early enough that I assume there weren't any guides out

>another slightly challenging game that filters /v/
were we the casuals all along?

>>723650528
yeah and the bonus is held back for reasons i described

>>723649634
Can't you literally just cheat by copying your saves?

>>723650964
I love all souls, Celeste and the B sides, loved hollowknight. I found this too unpleasantly difficult.

>>723651189
But Why do that?

>>723651003
It's extra bosses that are actually fun like seth, carmelita, and loss lace. That's a good enough for me. Some of the bosses are jokingly weak though like bell eater volt wyrm and pinstress. I wanted more Karmelita or Seth tier bosses.

>>723651775
So you can get your achievement like probably 99% of the people who have it did.

>>723650867
I bow to your superior god gamers skills earned through countless sweaty hours of not going to work or exercising.
ALL HAIL THE GOD GAMER

>>723651908
>So you can get your achievement
I just dupe saves and reload earlier versions for boss refights and to replay particular parts of the game without having to start a fresh file.

>>723652129
You're the one who said he spent hours on the fight lol, but yes thank you for recognising my superiority, please stop talking about the game's difficulty now as you've proven yourself inadequate at it to speak as a voice of authority

>>723652129
>m-muh exercise
LMAO fucking loser

>>723652197
You didn't beat the game.