Thread 723996996

>only 91% positive
why?

>>723996996 (OP)
idk, but if it's a Metroidvania you have your answer

>>723996996 (OP)
Act 3 poisons the game. 8/10

>>723996996 (OP)
Just google newest posts on Reddit or something. Constant crying about difficulty. "I have a job, my wife is depressed because she can't beat the bell beast"

>>723997570
is it really that hard? i feel like a lot of the bosses are really unfair but it's not _that_ hard
you can heal so much you can pretty much face tank everything once you get 7th mask i can't really think of a single hard boss like you can tell it's way more difficult especially in the beginning but it's not _that_ hard

>>723996996 (OP)
People getting filtered.

>>723996996 (OP)
It's fun and it's only 20$

No English dub

>>723996996 (OP)
Wanderer+multibinder+warding bell+longclaw+silkspeed+dice
Yep, It's gaming time

>>723996996 (OP)
Runbacks and enemy room runbacks

>>723997861
As a big casual who needed a lot of retries for a lot of bosses, it's indeed not that hard. It's just that you get so bored of these bosses & gauntlets you can't even enjoy the game anymore and you start to accuse the difficulty for it. I started listening to the ost and was surprised because I don't remember 2/3 of the music since I was too focused & frustrated during the fights to care about the rest

>>724002791
very positive is still low
>>724000936
wanderer is so easy and unfun i specifically avoided it unless the specific boss was really hard without it

>>723996996 (OP)
Chinese people were upset with how the game was translated for them.

>like the lore and characters
>find the game annoying to play

Halp.

>>724002791
>>724003859
>>724004112
Steam primarily displays your language only for review scores now. It's 91% in English and Chinese only drags the total score down to 90%.

>>723996996 (OP)
please shut up
cant tell if youre a shillposter or if youre actually this stupid, but for everyones sake, stop

>>723997861
the gauntlets to the bosses are usually extemely tedious just to learn the bosses who have 2 annoying moves at most whos main dif is contact damage. The music is ass to boot, so theres nothing to enjoy for most of the game if you have to retry bosses more than twice. Also the game turns into complete nonsense halfway into chap 2 and forces u to do the tedious and boring side q with a ton of backtracking to do the horrible act 3 just to fight lace(she is a terribly boring boss) again as a final boss. The game is as bad as dark souls 2, which also has 90% positive for some reason. Brand cult cucks dont care for quality.

>>724006267
i enjoyed it but i agree that bosses and those filler rooms are pretty shit
maybe like 1/4 of the bosses were actually good
lace was nice the first time and the second time but reusing the same boss 3 times cmon

>>723996996 (OP)
Not as emotional as Hollow Knight.

>>724006397
it also adds to it that the game is 40-60 hours and i have to say pretty much 90% of bosses are completely unmemorable outside lace(mainly cuz u fight her so often) and the boss you get stuck on. I play action games and osu/reaction games a lot and even i had to retry a few bosses more than 3 times. Cant imagine how much cock&ball torture this game is for someone with slow reaction times or a casual.

>>723997861
>is it really that hard?
No

>>724006967
>i had to retry a few bosses more than 3
i refuse to believe you actually did something like that frog in less than 3 attempts without absolutely fucking abusing usable items

i like that the game is long, just the reused assets and mediocre bosses are an issue to me but i love the game overall there's just so much stuff in it i love the map in particular and the whole 2nd act is cool with the structure being so big and 1st is just mysterious and a blast to explore, the movement is so fun but then you have really uninspired unfair bosses which are very unlike the first game where they were the biggest selling point
you have a massive hitbox and a lot of the bosses move erraticaly probably half or more of the damage i took was contact damage
>I play action games and osu/reaction games a lot
me too (also probably helps that i have some sort of mental illness that makes me have superhuman reaction time where i can accidentally drop my phone and catch it with my other hand)

>>724006267
Gauntlets are not that bad if you don't rely on wanderer as a crutch and actually use silk skills

>>724007908
theyre pretty fucking annoying especially that one in the halls where you have like 6 waves until you get a fight taht you actually have to learn and you get evaporated in like 4 seconds

>equips Wanderer without Longclaw
>saves silk for heals instead of using skills
>doesn't use items except for maybe flintslate and flea water
>forgets clawline exists
Aw yeah, time to complain about how the game is too hard and wastes my time.

>>724008152
>saves silk for heals instead of using skills
i play too aggressively to have silk to spare
>Longclaw
gay
>forgets clawline exists
great idea if you want to get contact damage
>doesn't use items except for maybe flintslate and flea water
items are gay

>>724000632
It wouldn't surprise me if they eventually made one for Silksong.

>>724008152
the silk skills suck, I never used them
special attacks using the same resource as self healing is stupid

>>724002032
That's a common observation about the music. The sound balance is fucked and you need to turn effects down quite a lot so the music doesn't get drowned out.

Did they rework shell shards yet?

>>723996996 (OP)
Fucking hilarious that people think this game will win GOTY over E33.

>>724009968
>silk storm is the only silk skill that doesn't suck complete ass
>better nerf it into oblivion

>>723996996 (OP)
When I die, I can't facefuck Hornet to let out my frustration.

>>723997861
you can tool spam your way through any difficult encounter in the game so i dunno how it's hard. in fact the tools should be rebalanced to be more engaging if anything

>>724003203
>I only abused the stupidly broken bullshit when I actually encountered a real challenge
This is actually more pathetic than the people who just said fuck it and went full metafag.

>>723996996 (OP)
Design is too frustrating for no reason, so it makes sense.
>runbacks
>absurd difficulty spikes
>bilewater
t. did 100% of the game.

>>724004234
no way theyre a huge chunk of the reviews at like below 65%
it literally brought the game down from 95~ to 90

any game still counts every region's reviews

>tools suck, because I'm saving shards for dark souls 4
>just play on steelsoul dude
Honestly, so fucking zased

>>723996996 (OP)
Normies review bombed the game, that why, and even then the 91% is still surprisingly high for a game that was so controversial at launch.
In 6 months it will probably be higher.

>>723997861
>once you get 7th mask
obviously it's fucking easy if you autisticly search for every single powerup you can scrape together

>>723996996 (OP)
I'm surprised it's that high, the game is just plain bad.

>>724011305
You say that as if every other region is actually >/=95%.

>>724011658
It's a Metroidvania, bub. You explore the map and look for upgrades, or resources to buy upgrades with.

>>724011658
>exploring & collecting
>in a metroidvania
>autistic

So is there literally any reason to play this if I wasn't frothing at the mouth for more after the first game?
To be honest, after finally killing the true final boss, I was fucking sick of the game. Sick of the aesthetic, sick of the combat, sick of it all. I had fun, but I had zero desire to play more and I haven't touched it since.

Every time I look at pictures of silksong, it looks like more of the same.

>>723997425
Shitter detected.

>>724012835
It's the same as the first game. If you didn't like it, there's nothing to change your mind. And yes, you will get sick of it around the halfway point.

>>724012817
100%ing the game to beat regular bosses is autistic yes

>>724012835
The gameplay and combat flow a lot better than in Hollow Knight. Late game HK amounted to timing when you did you iframe dashes, Silksong has multiple mobility and attack options that the first game didn't have, with the tradeoff being you're perpetually more fragile than you were in HK. If that doesn't sound appealing then don't bother.

>>724012760
I get the feeling hkfags haven't actually played other metroidvanias and are just 2d soulsfags

>>724013245
I wouldn't even call them HKfags, chances are they played through Godseeker mode more than the actual game.

>>724013020
>Silksong has multiple mobility and attack options that the first game didn't have
At the expense of basically the entire arsenal being shittier and more limited

>>723996996 (OP)
It's genuinely a hard game, and unlike Souls you can't summon people to beat it for you, which leads to frustration.

>>724013380
You have far more mobility and utility in SS than you ever did in HK, the tradeoff is i-frames. Even in terms of power, silk skills deal more raw damage than soul spells.

>>724013017
>7 masks
>100%

>>724013406
>It's genuinely a hard game,
It's really not.

>>724013602
Mobility? Actually quite questionable, especially in combat. Knight with sharp shadow could zip through entire field uninterrupted.
Utility? Abso fucking luterly not. It's not even a matter of having one shit tier charge attack instead of 3 superior nail arts, needolin being terrible compared to dream nail and all silk skills and tools sucking dick compared to knight's 3 spells, even the fucking charms and the insane utility you could get through them is nerfed into the ground in exchange for a small bunch of shitty sidegrade movesets that still lose to wanderer aka nerfed knight moveset.

>>724013017
Broseph, you can have 7 masks early act 2 if you're not a dense speedrunner.

>>724012835
Hornet is very mobile and combat's fun given you aren't just gonna head bash your way to victory

>>724011061
groal and bell eater are dogshit design andn so are areas which are just fucking annoying to do until you figure out how to react to bosses i sincerely have no fucking clue how are you supposed to defeat groal without wanderer it's so comically difficult and unfair it's nuts you basically have to RNG the fight and you get one shot unless you have that item that gives you resistance to blight i only gave a shit about the bosses that felt challenging

>>724013876
You should probably actually play Hollow Knight one of these days instead of watching streamers lmao

>>724013947
*arenas
whoever thought that 8 minute lead up to a boss that can basically one shot you is retarded especially considering the bench is a fucking secret and unless you have a wiki on your second screen it's easy to miss and then it's 10 minutes of lead up

>>724013932
>combat's fun as long as you avoid it
lmao

>>723996996 (OP)
That's a good score and the game doesn't deserve more than that.

It has some minor issues that detract from the gameplay (note: deranged fanboys will scream that I'm complaining about difficulty - I'm not) and the story/lore/atmosphere isn't packaged together quite as elegantly as the original game.

I wish more bosses were preceded by the little mini gauntlets and runbacks, not so much long ones but short and noticeably dangerous ones that reward you having good movement. I enjoyed Last Judge and Groal in particularly because it felt like I was fighting a little microcosm of the entire area before fighting the boss again.

Lace, while a fun fight, feels a little disconnected as a Boss because she's always isolated in her little arena right next to a Bench.

>>724013980
Played through 3 times, fucko. Hornet feels like a turbonerfed NPC compared to Knight.

>>724013602
>power, silk skills deal more raw damage than soul spells.
more like there's no setup where your nail deals 2x the damage 20 times a second
they don't deal more damage because the bosses are really fucking tanky which i dont mind most of the time

>>724013406
I'm a 35 year old man, and the only video game I've played in the last 10 years is Silksong, and not even I found the game hard. Even in Act 3.

You are doing something wrong.

>>724013947
>i sincerely have no fucking clue how are you supposed to defeat groal without wanderer
Leaving aside how you're a shitter. That boss is extremely easy to cheese.
If you just use multibinder you can jump into his mouth, spam nail attacks, and you can get enough silk to out-heal the damage you take.

>>724013947
>i sincerely have no fucking clue how are you supposed to defeat groal without wanderer
Wanderer does not have exclusive use to clawline, anon. If anything Wanderer is one of the weaker crests against him for multiple reasons.

>>724014103
I liked Last Judge, Groal isn't so bad provided you find the bench. Otherwise it's complete bullshit.

>>724013602
>Even in terms of power, silk skills deal more raw damage than soul spells.
why the fuck are you lying so hard lmao, a single abyssal spell with no boosters deals around the same damage as shaman crest + filament silk skills that are turbofucked by the changes to healing system

>>724006967
>wow cool knife, let me stab myself with it
Did he think it was rubber or something?

>>724014123
>That boss is extremely easy to cheese.
how is that better than using wanderer?
>>724014408
one of the reason being that you can literally just jump on top of him and 0 of his attacks to anything to you? it still takes like 5 minutes of hitting him

>>724014459
I find it hard to believe there were people who genuinely assumed Team Cherry was that sadistic and I didn't find out you could fix the Sinners Road bench until a few hours after I bought it.

>>724014620
>too fucking stupid to even link the correct post he's replying to
No wonder you struggled so hard with this game.

Also, that fight is trivial when you realize that you can dash down out of his breath attack. And then just spam nail hits on him.

I literally got it on my first try.

>>724014743
The way to fix it is pretty sadistic if you happen to need that bench.

>>724014058
tsk, not even an argument or can't think of any?

>>723996996 (OP)
mid art, bad animation, bad collision, mid music, shallow combat and antiquated mechanics, devs literally don't know how to code.
I could go on.

>>724013020
Except you aren't because you gain silk fast as fuck and have infinite heals.

>>723996996 (OP)
>only 91%
How is that bad?

Anyway Silksong starts off with such great promise and only kind of makes due on some of them. You think Hornet is a major part of the story and then as you play you realize she's just tangential to a bunch of random stuff happening. You get your first crest and you go "oh shit, im so excited for future movesets" and they all basically play the same. You see the first new zones and you expect a grand world but the areas don't really fit together that well and the Citadel isn't that impressive looking. While it's still a fantastic game, it never really wows me in the same way Hollow Knight did.

Anyway Silksong starts out as a 10 but by the time you finish it feels like an 8. It starts out with such great promise and makes your imagination run wild about what could await you, but then the game kind of makes due on only a few of those promises.
Getting the first crest made me super excited for multiple wildly different movesets for Hornet, but the crests don't actually offer all that much variety and there's an obvious hierarchy of quality and viability I cannot imagine using the Shaman crest beyond memes or novelty.
From a story perspective I think Hornet's weaver vision were a good example of the strong initial promise but meh delivery. There's all this build-up about gradually ascending towards some grand revelation or buried truth about the Weavers, but it turns out the visions were just hinting at approximately 15 seconds of basic platforming in the Cradle.

This is in contrast to the original Hollow Knight which started out as a 7 but felt like a 9 by the time you finish it.

>>724002791
Why chinks hate the game?

>>724012882
i gave it 8/10 cmon bruh... too much backtracking in act 3

>>724014515
Abyss Shriek is the only spell with a higher base damage than any silk skill, and it's emphasized that it's specifically Abyss Shriek because every silk skill out-damages Howling Wraiths once you get your second nail upgrade. The only advantage soul spells have is that Shaman Stone has a bigger upgrade than Volt Filament, but less than Volt+Shaman Crest.
The only other advantage HK has is that SS enemies has damage modifiers for everything, whereas with HK you can cheese it by never upgrading your nail and relying on spells because the few enemies with level-based HP only applies to nail level. But the average player won't know that.

>>724015382
8? Third act is so ungodly shit i can easily give it a 6. Hell the second half of act 2 is already terrible, with a hilariously empty and overstretched world with barely anything to find.

>>723997425
I genuinely don't understand this opinion.
Act 1 of Silksong is actually one of the most tedious fucking slogs I have played in recent memory, the quests and the low damage until you finally get your first pin upgrade and the general lack of good options for boosting your build just makes it feel so fucking bad.
Act 2 is somewhat better, the quests tend to be a bit less tedious but you're also likely to be jumping around the world a lot getting shit you want or need. Taste of Pharloom might be one of the most dog shit quests in the game and that's squarely an Act 2 quest that you're probably going to want to complete because pin upgrades make the game bearable.
Act 3 is pretty smooth sailing. Backtracking is easy thanks to the warp song and you having your entire kit by this point, the bosses are a mixed bag most mostly fine.
SS in general has such a wacky fucking difficult curve though.

>>723996996 (OP)
too high, it's an 80% at best

>>724015487
What you mean you don't like finding pockets of 15 shards/ rosaries?

>>724015057
>dash down out of his breath attack
you can literally just walk to the right on a platform, the bigger issue is contact damage because he moves randomly and doesnt take knockback

How is that bad?

Anyway Silksong starts out as a 10 but by the time you finish it feels like an 8, maybe less. It starts out with such great promise and makes your imagination run wild about what could await you, but then the game kind of makes due on only a few of those promises.
Getting the first crest made me super excited for multiple wildly different movesets for Hornet, but the crests don't actually offer all that much variety and there's an obvious hierarchy of quality and viability I cannot imagine using the Shaman crest beyond memes or novelty.
From a story perspective I think Hornet's weaver vision were a good example of the strong initial promise but meh delivery. There's all this build-up about gradually ascending towards some grand revelation or buried truth about the Weavers, but it turns out the visions were just hinting at approximately 15 seconds of basic platforming in the Cradle.

This is in contrast to the original Hollow Knight which started out as a 7 but felt like a 9 by the time you finish it. Hollow Knight's final stretch (+ DLCs) is arguably where the gameplay and story and presentation is at its best, whereas Silksong's act 3 is widely considered the weakest part of the game for a multitude of reasons.

>>724015502
the backtracking is still annoying. quest markers are typically pretty far and not enough changes. DLC might fix the game though

>>724015643
Adding more shit to a bloated game won't fix it.

Does anyone have that one chef lugoli image? With his mcnuggies

>>724015586
It's actually 7 shards, since you lose the other 7 on the spikes.

>>724015910
i like the game tho and wouldve been fine if it went longer delivering act 1/2 quality. you didnt even fw it in the first place

>>724016098
It was alright for the first half.

>>724015910
I wouldn't call Silksong bloated, more heavily padded.
Bloated implies there's a bunch of useless content, but in actuality Silksong just has you travel through the same locations and fight the same enemies multiple times to pad out the playtime.

the way they went about cutting content is psychotic. when i realized they dumped 20 new mobs in 4 rooms for a single gauntlet i couldnt believe it. dunno why they didnt use some of the cut assets more effectively. stuff like that makes act 3 weird

>>724015450
Chinese localization is apparently laughably bad, and they're a race of Internet Karens, so naturally they downvoted the game for it.

>>723996996 (OP)
Kinda weird spider like freak game niggers like to play because they want to get jankums nigger high huffin a bag of their own shit nigger high with all the xenophobia you can handle instead of doing narcotics and enjoying decent games that aren’t as abstract. At least to where this game is just at most an honorable mention at best. I see what they mean by this game btw. They want to cover me in evil spiders that torture the fuck out of me while they play a video game. Fuck you devil worshiping cunts, get a life and it’s never going to happen.

>>724006967
>fight trobbio before bed. lose 3 times pay attention to what he was doing
>wake up fully rested. one and done
jobbio

>>724012835
>would I like more of the same if I wasn't really into the original
are you retarded? what do you think? I was surprised that it revived my interest in the metroidvania genre after playing some of the ones konami did in the 2010s

>>723996996 (OP)
I was patiently waiting for Silksong for 7 years, huge fan of the original. Then it came out and I played it nonstop but dropped it right before the ending. Uninstalled it and never looked back.
Game's not bad or anything but it made me realize that for me the story and the "feeling" of a game matter just as much as the gameplay, and it's what endeared the original game to me so much. In those respects Silksong just didn't gel with me at all. Sorry TC but I just don't give a shit about Lace and the in-game implementation of void enemies ended up being way more boring than I expected.

>>724012835
>So is there literally any reason to play this if I wasn't frothing at the mouth for more after the first game?
Not really. It feels much better to play than Hollow Knight, but that comes at the cost of some truly baffling design choices (quests exist now and the're fucking shit, even more backtracking than HK, difficulty curve is nonsense and your starting damage is terrible, healing costs all of your silk (i.e. soul from the first game) before upgrades which deincentivizes using your silk for anything else)
It's not a bad game but it's very obviously designed for either hardcore HK fans that will play anything HK or pretentious faggots that will just buy the game so they can pretend they've beaten a "masterpiece" and have experienced a "cultural landmark". Team Cherry themselves are too up their own ass to actually make a fun game so this is the best you'll get from them.

>>724017459
Lace is unironically the single biggest issue with the narrative. She is an unlikeable piece of shit you barely even see, yet she becomes the central focus of the story.

>>724017459
>but it made me realize that for me the story and the "feeling" of a game matter just as much as the gameplay
Team Cherry just lifted the story and "feeling" of HK from Dark Souls though.

>>723996996 (OP)
Around 90% or the world is nonwhite, around 10% is white.

>>724015502
Actually agree with this, act 1 almost made me quit. Enjoyed act2 a lot more and 3 was quite quick to do

>>724006967
>3 retries is cock n ball torture
Nigger, are you serious?

>>724017685
Dark Souls lifted everything from Berserk and dark fantasy has existed for over 100 years.

>>724015502
There's barely any new areas to explore, the void enemies are boring, they just get an extra 2 void attacks, they are too tanky so most of the time I'd rather run past them.
A bunch of backtracking with enemies that are not fun to fight isn't a good experience. The Entire Kingdom collapse thing sucked. The new zones themselves were ok

>>724017867
>Reading comprehension
Ah, an am*rican

Is there a list of things I don't need to do if I want to do 100% steel soul? I assume I have to do everything except act 3 emblems
Do I need all four hearts?
Do I have to do that steel soul-only boss?

>>724017935
Oh yeah I'm sure Team Cherry just came up with the idea of exploring the near abandoned (outside of seemingly possessed husks) ruins of a once prosperous civilization, brought to its knees when its morally grey but ultimately well meaning god ruler attempted to fight nature itself and lost. And that final boss being a tragic figure holding back a greater threat, and the ending involving the protagonist having been tricked into taking the final boss's place, completely original.
HK is just Bug Souls. Team Cherry can deny it all they want but Souls very obviously permeates every facet of the game, far past the point of coincidence.

>>724017996
tbf the void enemies aren't so bad once you get that final pin upgrade, which you should be close to getting if you've not been neglecting the fleas.

>>724018217
Completion percentage only tracks upgrades. Anything that doesn't give an upgrade or contribute to unlocking act 3 (fleas, maps, donation wishes, Sherma) can be ignored.
>>724018416
FromSoft didn't come up with any of that either, anon.

>>724018513
Doesn't matter. They popularized it and set the trend.

>>724017681
People complaining about Lace can't seem to decide if she's "forced" (i.e. too much of her) or doesn't appear enough to justify her presence. I have no idea what either claim is supposed to be based on. You fight her 2, 3 times max, which is not enough to complain about if you don't like her, but there's enough background there to make you go "huh, that's neat" if you're interested. I don't think she's ever the "focus". Even in Act 3 you only see her twice. For me, Hornet and her relationship to Pharloom and its inhabitants are clearly the focus throughout. Lace is just a part of that.
Now, is she forced in yuri memes on /v/? Absolutely.

>>724011364
Honestly not that bad of an idea. By saving and quitting before dying it basically becomes normal mode. You can also get a bunch of extra rosaries for selling every silkeater you find instead of just hoarding them.

>>724018606
>They popularized it
Only for retards.

>>724018620
It's both, and being forced is caused by her not appearing enough. Her story was written for DLC and never expanded when they made it a full game, so her inclusion as the supposed main rival, penultimate story boss of act 2, and final boss of the entire game is all forced.

>>724018513
>FromSoft didn't come up with any of that either, anon.
The corpse runs, the NPC quests that often end in death, tragedy, or some ambiguous fate, the emphasis on soul, the story presentation being intentionally opaque and relying on deep digging to fully understand, there are just too many things in HK that feel like Team Cherry just saw the success of DaS and thought "hey maybe our game will be successful if we do that".
Ironically I used to think that HK being a Souls knock off was absurd too, but then I actually played HK and realized just how much shit felt like a cynical team taking ideas from a better game.

>>724018645
In gaming. Period.

>>724018620
She is both forced and doesn't appear enough. Those things are not mutually exclusive. She is the focal point of the act 3 despite not deserving it unlike say, Sherma who would've suited the role of central character far better.

>>724018743
What would have made her inclusion not forced in your opinion? More boss fights with her? More cutscenes where she shows up and taunts you? Should she have moved in and become an NPC at the citadel? There are already cutscenes that explain her backstory. I don't know how much you're expecting from a Hollow Knight character.

>>724018620
She's a moronic tumblr character that attracts moronic tumblrfags. If you've had the misfortune to interact with a lacefag here, you'd know that the vast majority of them didn't even play the game (like the fag who was spamming fanarts in comfy threads) and will invent a bunch of retarded shit to justify how she's akctually not a shitty plot device or how their shippingfaggotry is totally canon (by deliberately misinterpreting obvious shit).

>>724018810
HK is a far better designed game than Dark Souls though, especially the first 2. "Prepare to Die" slop

>>724019151
Thank you for your candid honesty.

>>724019068
I literally said what the deal is. She's a DLC character that never got properly expanded. As a result, she both has too few appearances to make an impact, and her appearances come off as schizophrenic with how much she pulls non-foreshadowed character motivations from her ass. She needed to be rewritten from scratch to fit the expanded nature of the game as a whole.

>>724019235
>HK is a far better designed game than Dark Souls though
If you've never played a good metroidvania before, maybe.

>>724018217
You don't need to fight tormented trobbio or do the green prince quest at all to get 100%. So don't waste time and a key to free the green fag.

>>724019151
Is she even for tumblrfags? I feel like the only people that care about her are yuritroons, if tumblrfags care about anyone it's girl boss Mother Silk and attempting to explain how she actually didn't do anything wrong.

>>724019507
Maybe. I'm only comparing to Dark Souls though, I've tried only a handful of Metroidvania games iml. HK is the best out of those few

>>724015463
you get fast travel

>>724018923
Again, only for retards.

>>724018620
Silksong is a very very long game in the first playthrough - the Lace encounters are already brief and rare but in such a long game, they feel ultra rare. They're also spread very unevenly, to me it felt like I saw her a few times in the early game, played for 50h, then found her again below the Cradle and I said to myself out loud oh wait I forgot about this character. Hornet did not have this problem in HK, her appearances were spread out a lot more evenly. Hornet's relationship with the Knight also progressed in a way that feels more rewarding than Lace's endless mocking.

'Jealous brat who provokes everyone and giggles all the time... but DOES MOMMY TRULY LOVE HER?' is simply not an appealing character archetype for a character we're supposed to pity and possibly consider worth saving. There's no emotional affect to the player-character relationship like there was with the sealed vessel.

Also: a tutorial boss that we trounce 2 times without difficulty will never feel like a true rival or a threat, and certainly will never feel serious enough for a final boss.

>>724019750
>HK is the best out of those few
Shit upgrades that don't make the tedious world traversal any better.
Broken builds that let you shit all over any sort of semblance of game balance up until you start doing the overtuned sweaty faggot DLC content
Boring level design, devs were too incompetent to make level geometry that doesn't consist of literal blocks (even NES Mario figured out slopes, like fuck Team Cherry do you have any real coders?)

>>724019927
The main thing with Hornet in HK is that all of her appearances had meaning within the context of the game's story. When she showed up it was important. Lace does not get this at all until she's the final boss and even then you're only tolerating her so mommy stops crying.

>>723996996 (OP)
Faggots can't accept the existence of a game without easy mode, the same reason they are dickriding e33

>>724019704
She was co-opted by them since 2019, her first reveal. Even then her whole personality and demeanor just reeks le chunni animeshit.

>>724020106
2 completely different audiences anon.

As TC literally said the game came out grossly incomplete. They just released it to prevent themselves from tweaking it and losing their minds over small details until the sun goes cold but plan on adding lots of more content over time with fixes and DLC.
So see you in 26 years to replay the game closer to how it was intended.
>>723997861
It's not hard if you're familiar with metroidvanias or at least finished the first game to any of the "true" endings. It's going to be very hard for the majority of the millions of people who are playing this game just because it's popular and are completely out of their depth.
Seriously: the keyboard scheme was kind of fucking with me so I looked up how other people were mapping their game and literally every article, video or blog post, and even let's plays and reviews that weren't specifically about this, suggests using WASD for movement, why? Because, according to them, that's how every pc game plays. Of course, they are talking about FPSs, that's the only thing they play, some of them even downright admitted it.

>>724019927
I don't think Lace being a brat is even really a problem, but she really just has zero chemistry with Hornet. Like if they had a fun rapport it'd be one thing, but Hornet is just way too dry and autistic for Lace to actually work as a character foil in literally any meaningful way.
The mommy thing is also a very transparent way of trying to make her sympathetic, but Silk Mommy is such a non-character that Lace's inadequacies just mean nothing to the audience. We have no context for their relationship, we can't even guess at it because we don't fucking know anything about Silk Mom.
You just end up feeling nothing about her, she's not antagonistic enough to be hateable, not enough of a weird/fun presence to be memorable, and not sympathetic enough to elicit even the most remote sense of pity. I wanted to like her but there's really just nothing there.

*ahem* cope and seethe

>>724020436
>I don't think Lace being a brat is even really a problem, but she really just has zero chemistry with Hornet. Like if they had a fun rapport it'd be one thing, but Hornet is just way too dry and autistic for Lace to actually work as a character foil in literally any meaningful way.
Their dialogue in the Abyss, both times, was pretty good, as was their dialogue in the Cradle. It's her previous appearances where Lace has no real character besides "ahuhuhu I kill you now just cuz." The moments in the Cradle and Abyss have no buildup at all on Lace's end, only on Hornet's and only based on her backstory and appearance in HK.

>>724019927
>There's no emotional affect to the player-character relationship like there was with the sealed vessel.
for me this was the reason
the stuff with the Hollow Knight worked a lot better, and the combination of selfsacrifice + suicidal ideation + immense burden was effective at making me pity hi.. which is not exactly an original or brand new to evoke pity out of an audience to be sure, but it works and is universally understandable to people
Lace unfortunately falls into a type of female character that i've seen way too much of and i've never cared much for anyway, just an entitled immature girl who makes it her personality to shittalk and infantilize everyone.. which works for some people i guess but not for me and it's hard to get me to give a shit about her problems (which are by the way total nothingburger problems compared to what oher bug in Pharloom had to face)

>>724020106
this game needs an easy mode, im not pulling every boss 50 times without a checkpoint its not fun

>>724021105
just mod it bro

>>724019927
>>724020103
These are good points. Thanks for the perspective. I'm not sure how they fit in more "justification" for Lace in the game as it stands, being so rich in characters and their respective arcs. And Hornet herself is much more of a focus than the Knight was, to the point of having dialogue throughout. I think that's an ok tradeoff. Maybe the game is just too sprawling for its own good, but honestly I'd rather have it that way even if it means the final boss's backstory is left a bit of a mystery by the end. That last scene was sequel bait if I've ever seen it, though. Watch Lace be the star of Hollow Knight 3.
>>724020436
Just wait until the lorefags post their hours long Silksong lore videos and Lace gets her own "PREPARE TO CRY" and then I'm sure that will get posted in every Silksong thread.

>>724020116
I don't see any problem with her specifically. HK is trying very hard to be darksouls-like not just in the difficulty infamy aspect, but the story too: HK doesn't really have much of a plot other than by seeking out every lore tablet and exhausting every npc dialogue to try to string together the past of the land. The "story" as in the condensation of all the events you witness in game can easily be reduced to a single day of a crazy guy running around a dead kingdom. Silksong is less of that but still tries to work from that baseline. Albeit very clumsily I admit.
My point being: I don't think lace has enough screentime to even make those kinds of character assesements. She actually does a complete 180% on her "chunni" like behavior after being defeated at the cradle.
As for the tubmlr thing. yeah, they eat up lace as the poor little sweet bean, and by extension hornet. 99% of what tumblr discusses regarding history, characters and lore are completely insane delusions sparked from whole cloth, memes and headcanons that were made up from the first trailers and now they are all convinced they're hardcoded events in game. Reddit doesn't fall behind, but at least they're actually talking about the story rather than just writting essays to justify their shipping or call people creeps and weirdos for their own ships.

>>724021105
If you're losing more than 50 times to several bosses you need to go play something else. This one isn't for you. Maybe pick up again in the future?

>>723996996 (OP)
jokes aside
you all (silksong players) think this is a 95+ game?

>>723996996 (OP)
It insists upon itself

>>724021105
>thinks 50 attempts is too much
drop the game, it isn't for you

>>724006967
>warding bell
why did he do it bros?

>>724021649
No, but I think DLC might fix it. It's like ~85. The scarce upgrades don't rlly bother me, the environments and enemies are varied enough to carry the game. Story is cooked tho and act 3 needs work

>>724021649
I think it's a 8.5/10 game. Not a masterpiece, but pretty good overall.

>>724021204
>I'm not sure how they fit in more "justification" for Lace in the game as it stands
Rewriting her appearances before the Cradle to better set up her relationship with GMS and motivations for wanting to keep Hornet from her would be enough. Adding a couple more appearances that don't rely on needolin visions would be better. She has the motivations, they just don't bother showing them until you already beat her in the Cradle.

>>723996996 (OP)
Silksong's gameplay is just more Hollow Knight for people who beat Pantheon 5
Silksong's story and presentation is female-brained Hollow Knight and everything that entails

can't be more than an 8

Ok, and what special things will there be in your /nbbmn/, dudes?

>>724021649
maybe? the highs are stupidly high, but some of the lows are also disappointingly low. Which makes sense considering how big this game, it reminds me in some way to Elden Ring, which also suffered sometimes because of how ambitious it was.
Is my personal goty, and is fighting with ER for my favorite game of all time, even if it's not a perfect game in any way.

>>724019949
>Team Cherry do you have any real coders
I mean they literally went from game jams projects with 2 minutes of actual gameplay to a 170% funded kickstarter game with an average of 10-20 hours of gameplay at launch, including a few of the stretch goals that weren't even met, so what do you think?
>>724019949
>incompetent to make level geometry that doesn't consist of literal blocks
Competency is about necessity, wherever are slopes necessary in Hollow knight?
>>724022061
>appearances that don't rely on needolin vision
Just like the first game with hidden lore tablets and secret dreamnail interactions, this one also pushes a lot for people to earn their lore drops by schizoidally poking every corner of every room.
>>724022179
What? You didn't enjoy the scene were hornet gets raped on screen?
>>724021649
No, but I think the average game is hot garbage that shouldn't even bother existing, Silksong at least makes a statement in terms of how uncompromisingly hard and unfriendly to beginners is, and that deserves recognition.

>>723996996 (OP)
0/10
didn't play it and don't intend to

>>724021649
For me, it's better than Hollow Knight, so it's somewhere around that ballpark. It's definitely the best metroidvania.

>>724022637
There's a difference between "lore drops" and "basic character motivations for the main antagonist." Having Lace actually show up after the Phantom fight to lament the state of her elder sister and remark about how she's doomed to wither the same would by itself be more characterization and setup than all her pre-Cradle appearances combined.

>>724023173
LMAO, actually asking for telenovela tier spoonfeeding. God damn retard.

>>724023173
no
wait
no
how about you tell me, exactly, how you want that scene to unfold. Let's put the set; you just defeated phantom, you get the cross stitch prompt, you're still in the arena of what is literally the citadel's main sewer line. Describe what happens next.

>>724024092
Why should I do a song and dance routine for you when you're obviously going to say it's shit no matter what I come up with? Especially in a game where half of Lace's appearances are hot garbage anyway? Imagine actually defending that bullshit.

>>723996996 (OP)
I'm guessing its filtered players, Silksong isn't for everyone after all. Including me. I haven't even gotten past Act 1 and I uninstalled the game and issued a refund hoping it'll go through. I'd rather buy myself some food with my refunded money instead of nearly throwing the controller into the floor. Young me would probably be thrilled at attempting this buggy metroidvania but I simply can't. Kudos to those who could.

>>724024278
Yeah it is very jarring how if you beat phantom and get to the citadel through that way, Lace should know that you went through phantom and is probably dead, yet she says nothing about it

I fucking hate watching people play this game. Why is it so hard to find a player that tries to study and learn a boss the way it's intended?
Bosses can have only 3 attacks but retards will get hit constantly because they just rush the boss. Instead of being patient and engaging with the dodge/counter game flow, they beat bosses on a fluke and call them shitty fights.
And god forbid a boss is designed to control the flow of the fight like Lost Lace and players blame the game for not having the boss take free damage

>>724026145
Huh? You can attack continuously if you're good, it's pretty rare when a boss is fully surrounded by a hitbox, it's mostly stuff like Last Judge spinning her censer or Trobbio's tornado.

>>724008152
Yeah it's always Wanderlets screaming the loudest about this shit. Always fun to see one screech about how unfair the gauntlets are when they're using their 1 entire tool slot on some useless garbage and have zero ranged options outside the clawline that they refuse to use

Hornet if she had a robot body.

>>723996996 (OP)
>massive difficulty cliff with hunters march which the games level design heavily encourages you to go down before you really should
>diagonal pogo takes a long time to get used to and by the time you get semi used to it you get another crest that makes the entire skill you learned pointless
>the 2nd savage beastfly fight
>courier quests are not fun and basically require you to pre-grind your path to do them
>The tool & shard system encourage you to hoard your shards until you're on the final phase of a difficult boss fight rather than passively use them as a combat option
>the forum gauntlet
>introduction to Mt Fay makes it seem like you're missing an item so you delay getting double jump
>bilewater
>the coral tower
>Lost Lash teleporting in front of you as you dash and blending in with her attacks because everything is black turns an amazing fight into an annoying one
So much of this game is 10/10 GOTY but those are things that went from frustrating to bullshit. 8/10.

>>724027301
Hornet seems to be totally on-board for receiving cybernetic enhancements with the way she talks about some flying enemies

>>724024278
I mean, are you going to say bullshit, or are you going to say something that makes sense and is enriching for the game?
>>724024278
>half of Lace's appearances are hot garbage anyway
oh so that's what's happening. You're projecting. You call the scenes bullshit but don't even know why.
You don't have an alternative either, just a vague half-idea that you aren't even confident in enough to share because you know it could never hold to your own whiny-for sake of sounding smart-standards.
That's all I needed to know.
>>724025861
How do you know she knows? Or cares? Or has anything important to say? Phantom is the defective "sister" of two beings whose lives Lace already considers worthless, and even the younger "perfect" sister would prefer to die at the hands of hornet than continue this mockery of life. That Phantom wanted the same thing not only is an obvious conclusion, but Hornet herself tell you to your face as such too.
Again, what, specifically, do you want Lace to say about phantom? Do you just want the game to treat you like a toddler?
>>724026145
Worse, they beat bosses on a fluke and upload it as "how to beat X guide" like it wasn't just fools luck while on reaper crest without even dash attacking once.

>>724027351
>introduction to Mt Fay makes it seem like you're missing an item
My biggest complaint right here. They should've put a warm spot near the entrance so players know it's possible. I immediately noped out when I saw the ice and literally collected every other item I could before I had a friend tell me to go to the mountain.

>>723996996 (OP)
the score is too high for an artificial difficulty game

>>724027689
I did the jail break sequence and there are cold areas with torches, so I already knew what to do.

>>724027801
I missed the jail event so that probably didn't help

>>724027441
It's not about the game turning to the player and going "this is a thing that happened," it's about the major characters openly talking about it and trading lines based on their differing perspectives. The lines they have in the Cradle about Lace's existence are thematically interesting, but lack impact because they come out of nowhere, when they would be better served if Lace actually had prior scenes referencing her state. It's not about what the player knows, it's about how Lace comes across as a character.

>>724027689
I already recognized the rings from the Far Fields area, so once I came back to it in act 2 with the clawline I simply ventured out to see how far I could get knowing I could just pop a silkeater if I died in the icy wastes because I needed an item first.

>>724028145
There were rings in the room where you get the upgrade, they're necessary to get out, what does Far Fields have to do with it, although that is also the first place I went to after getting the upgrade much to my regret

>>724027351
Those are all literally positive things.
>hunter's march
Hunter's march level design encourages you to follow the path naturally as you encounter it, but then presents you with difficult pogo platforming along the way as a clear sign that you should probably go back around. IF you're familiar with either souls games or regular metroidvanias you're going to pick up that you're in a dangerous area for more advanced players.
>courier quests
Not unlike the delicate flower quest in HK1, except waaaay more forgiving, you don't actually need to clear the path if you know the shortcuts or have basic avoiding-enemies skills.
>the shard system
That one's entirely on you. Many people use tools to rush a boss into their final stage instead. It's your decision whether to use them across the fight or not. If you don't have the JRPG OCD masochist disease where you save all your powerful consumables even during the final boss fight because maybe you'll need them later, this isn't an issue. And it shouldn't be much of an issue anyway because the tools aren't one use items.
>the forum gauntlet
I'll grant you that if you go blind it's going to be pretty hard, but if you explore about like the game encourages you greatly to do you'll eventually find ways to make it easier (turning off the spider robots, getting garmond or shakra to help) it's a difficulty selector.
>introduction to Mt Fay makes it seem like you're missing an item
Yes, the item you get when climbing mount fay. It's a trolling move, but not that uncommon in metroidvanias. Where hunter's march tries to push you away with the difficulty spike, Mt. Fay is daring you to take the challenge.
>bilewater
Literally the richest, coolest area in the game
>Lost lace teleporting in front of you
Yeah, you have a HUGE arena to fight her, it's only fair that the boss herself prevents you from spending 30 minutes running away from her while occasionally chipping at her health bar. The telegraph is sufficiently notable anyway.

>>724028372
>what does Far Fields have to do with it
Because the same rings are there, so when I saw it for the first time I figured I'd need an ability and plopped a marker on the map to remember. And then I plopped another marker down at Mt. Fay after I broke out of the Slab to remember to go back.

>>724028046
So she's the kind of tropey bully that mocks and looks down upon hornet because she's insecure about herself. Not unlike the average 4chan user I guess. Could that be handled better? Could her personality be given more depth? Maybe, but I don't have any good ideas as to how, and I also don't think it's necessary for people to understand her. That alone doesn't make her every scene "dogshit".

>>724028509
I could take delicate flower as slow as I wanted, rasher demands actual speed

>>724027801
That actually made me even more convinced there would be an item for it later.
it felt to me like when you find all the updrafts before getting the float cloak and you have to platform around them normally, and then after you get the float you come back and can use them to get to new areas.
I expected it to be like that with the cold part of the prison, the first time you go there you run between the warm zones and then later you find an upgrade that lets you explore it freely and find new areas, and would let you into mount fay.

The warm zone being far enough in that you have to fully commit to either finding a safe spot or dying is just kinda bad design in a game that has already trained you to look at things like that and go "I'll come back later when I get the thing that lets me do this." All they had to do was put a brazier close enough to the entrance that you could see it if you just ventured in a little, rather than way beyond the point of no return.

>>724028727
Her scenes before the Cradle are dogshit because they don't build up to anything she says in the Cradle or the Abyss. Pre-Cradle Lace might as well be completely different character.

>>724027351
>>724028509
>coral tower
I'll grant you that.
But coral tower seems like the best fit for rushing out an area that they clearly wanted to work more on and then couldn't so they just rushed it out. I'm confident future updates will fix that... in like 4 years or so.
>beastfly 2
Yeah, also total bs of a fight, but it's also optional, and if it's the last thing you do in act 2 it's definitely worth it for the mask shard. Just don't wait for act 3.

>>723996996 (OP)
Act 1 is terrible. The game only becomes good in act 2 once you have sufficient upgrades and abilities.

> Healing
Having to heal 3 masks at a time, for your entire starting spool, when you only have 5 masks basically means you're always walking around with little health and not using silk skills. It makes sense in the mid and late game when you've got 7/8 or more masks, but in the early game it sucks.

> Enemies
So many enemies just fly around sporadicaly, stay out of reach a lot and throw shit at you. When you get the double jump and clawline, they become easier to deal with, but until then that, a lot of enemies are annoying and tedious.

> Platforming
The diagonal pogo is, initially, far too precise. Once you get a bunch of upgrades it becomes more manageable because you have different ways of traversing long distances and bouncing off enemies/obstacles. The double jump especially is very useful in letting you adjust yourself in mid-air and giving you some more time and wiggle room. Without that and the clawline, the platforming is way too difficult for the early game. The platforming at the start of the game was actually way more difficult that the later challenges imo.

>>724028782
I agree. There are some Metroid romhacks where you have to do a "hell run" through heated areas without the Varia suit. But it's really fucking important to signpost that and inform the player they gotta run through it, especially since in every Metroid game, you should always leave when you encounter a room like that.

>>724028778
Yes, but you can also take 2-3 hits from enemies and still finish it. Delicate flower breaks immediately with the most minor mistake.
And rasher and queen egg are the only 2 deliveries that actually grant you any direct benefit. The others are just for farming coin.

>>724013017
7 Masks will be basic exploration through second act. autism comes from 8 or 9 and 10 masks you just have a guide out or put far too many hours slamming into walls hoping its actually an unseen path.

Is it actually good or just a meme? Thinking about picking it up.

>>724029347
It's just a meme bro, no one actually likes the game come on this idiot thought people were being serious

>>724028782
Coming into a room and feeling like ''do i need an upgrade for this and should i come back later or can i do this now'' happens in basically every metroidvania, thats just the nature of the genre. I dont know if there is a way around that. Sure you can give certain hints but i think shit like this is always going to happen at some point.

>>724029347
maybe when it goes on sale

>>724028782
>>724029078
I really don't get the deal with actually venturing out and exploring in not only a game that's a Metroidvania, but a game that treats death as a triviality with how many free silkeaters they throw at you. It's not like Hollow Knight, where you need to find an egg and make a pilgrimage to the temple to summon your shade, if you don't think you can go further in an area you just use the silkeater and go somewhere else. These games demand curiosity, it's not bad game design to demand something that's a conceit of the genre.

>>724029347
play hollow knight instead

>>723996996 (OP)
Review bombers. They brought it down to low 80s and now it's been brought back up. It'll reach 95+ eventually.

>>724029017
I literally just explained to you how they build up to it. But if you want the specifics:
When you first find lace you realize one thing immediately: she's the one who saved Hornet from the choir envoys and guided her out of mosshome.
first scene tells you her objective: she's the only character up to that point that specifically wants hornet dead.
Second one tells you how she sees the world: she doesn't understand the nature of hornet yet and thinks GMS is infallible and beyond comprehension
Third one finally tells you show she sees herself and her motives for her actions.
These things give away a ton of info to you about the entire game: why hornet is in pharloom, why was she captured, why Lace saved her at first. And it opens many other questions: most of which are never actually answered, but the game also doesn't mean to do so. You can speculate all you want about what that means, just because the game demands you to think and show curiosity doesn't make it bad.

>>724015502
For me, act 2 started good but the route I took felt so damn awful taking forever to find the clawline or pathway to either oil (went in the dining hall but didnt see the guy and Whispering vaults was somehow my last fucking area) High halls gauntlet, that stagnation of not getting any new movement abilities for around 10 hours and enemies becoming ridiculously against pin damage wasnt fun

>Rewatch the announcement trailer from 6 years ago
>Coral Area was cut
dang that area was pretty. I wished it was longer in the final release
>Hornet's cute OOO EEE SAHH when she's clawlining is gone
https://youtu.be/yQxwbZsL14Y?si=P_RMDAOSdl5NsddQ

>>724015502
Nah, act 3 is mediocre. There arent many new areas to explore which is what the game really excells at. When you've got most of the world opened up it starts to feel like a shitty open world game where you're just fast traveling around and checking off shit to do.

Lost Verdania was peak silksong tho.

>>724015502
>Every change to the overworld, of which there aren't many, make the areas worse
>Void enemies are just annoying
>The one actual upgrade you get sucks cocks
>Only one of the new bosses is any good
>Plus the shitty tedious shit in Act 2 that's required to unlock Act 3

>>724028782
If you pass the first hurdle of the area, which is using the clawline to get on the first raised platform, which is almost impossible to overcome without it, you only have to take a few steps forward and find a path forward where you immediately find shakra and her campfire. It's not trivial but it's not obscured either. Thanks to the slab you already know that the cold area MUST have some refuge along the way that's possible to reach before dying, and there it is.
Even if you ignore the area because you haven't found the item you're looking for, at some point you gotta realize that you have to dare venture into the only area you haven't yet explored. That's what I did, and it was fine. Also because double jumping is a platforming basic and it would be weird that you're almost up to the faux-final boss and havent a clue where it might be.
>>724030286
That's like, your opinion man.

>>724030008
I'm kinda miffed about the tonal bait and switch. Trailer seemed to show it as a brighter journey and at some point they turned into another desolate zanzibart depression simulator.
>>724030220
I like act 3 as an epilogue and think the game would be too bloated there was even more to explore. I think giving you end game content to actually navigate the world and push your toolkit was pretty neat.

>>724029916
>and thinks GMS is infallible and beyond comprehension
Incorrect. She never expresses GMS is infallible, and says that Hornet, not Lace, would find her beyond comprehension, because she doesn't understand Hornet's nature. Which is funny because if you were right then it would torpedo your own argument because if she did think GMS was infallible and beyond comprehension then it would be directly contradicted by literally everything she says or does in the Cradle and Abyss. As it stands, the scene at the start of act 2 is complete irrelevant fluff. All she does is taunt Hornet, again, nothing further is served or gained from this scene besides Hornet getting a cool line about how gods can fall, which just leaves Lace looking like a twit.

>>724008152
They nerfed my skill into the ground for no reason

>>723997861
>once you get 7th mask
That's a fair ways into the game. They are stingy as fuck with upgrades

>>724029347
it's a below average 2D platformer.
>but its hecking loooong
So just play 10 good games instead of this one

>>724029347
play HK1 first if you haven't, but yeah it's a pretty great game as long as you're reasonably competent at combat focused platformers and it only costs 20$, hard to go wrong

>>724029570
I generally try not to die in videogames, even if it would be convenient, especially on a first playthrough. It feels kinda dumb and artificial to just go "it doesn't matter if I die it doesn't cost anything anyway," it makes the whole experience feel like it matters less. When you're exploring and find a cold place it makes a lot of sense to make a quick trip in and see how far you can get before running back to safety, I think that would count as having curiosity, and I think they could have easily just put a warm zone on top of one of the rings so you can see it from the ground or something and way, way fewer people would have been misled by it.
Sometimes misleading people is the point, and it can actually be pretty effective. I didn't find how to fix the sinner's road bench until I'd already done the whole area, cursing the fucking broken bench the whole time. I don't think that was the intention with Mount Fay though. When I broke the roots and fixed the bench it was funny and cathartic knowing how much annoyance I could have avoided if I'd been more observant and noticed the broken wall. Mount Fay was just "Oh, I could have had the doublejump like 12 hours ago, that's dumb"
And not that it matters, but there's way more free eggs in HK1 than silkeaters in silksong. Not counting Styx you get 9 silkeaters if the wiki is right, and 20 rancid eggs not counting Tuk.

>>724030339
Nah I disagree, if they made the abyss like maybe 2-3 real explorable areas and those dream sequences real locations game wouldve been peak. Maybe they'd have to add 1 more upgrade / tech other than silk jump. Kahn's memory being only 5 rooms was wild. Nyleth was a hallway to 1 room.

>>724012835
Hornet's improvement movement might be enough for you but probably not. I was the same as you with Hollow Knight, maybe even a little more positive about it, but after finishing Silksong I have no desire to ever play it again.

>>724030587
>Not counting Styx
You should count him considering he gives you two per hour if you grab them. Yeah I get it can seem like tedious backtracking since he's a decent distance from the nearest bellway, but it means you can just go to him if you're out and get two for free instead of having to hunt them down or pay for them. And the big benefit with silkeaters vs. eggs is you can use them for free anywhere instead of having to go back to Dirtmouth.

>>724018620
Forced importance, not forced screentime.

>>724030339
>I like act 3 as an epilogue and think the game would be too bloated there was even more to explore. I think giving you end game content to actually navigate the world and push your toolkit was pretty neat.

Im inclined to agree but seeing as the actual end game content was mostly just a bunch of, imo, really shitty bosses, it fell flat for me.

>>724030342
So you gained a scene were Lace looks like a twit, which you later confirm she is in the cradle. I see.
> if she did think GMS was infallible and beyond comprehension then it would be directly contradicted by literally everything she says or does in the Cradle and Abyss.
In the cradle, like in the organ flashback, she expresses her own inability to comprehend GMS, "Why did she make me" isn't "lol guise GMS must be so stupid for making me" it's actually a reaffirmation of her blind faith in GMS having mysterious ways beyond her, just like all the other horrible shit GMS does but Lace -as you should be able to infer- implicitly trusts is part of some higher plan.
Rather than the reality you learn afterwards that actually GMS loves her and just wasn't able to make her like she wanted, because she IS fallible.
In the abyss? You mean after she has a complete change of worldview? She saw her god fall, so she finally learned the truth about GMS; she can make mistakes, she can be stupid, maybe even evil, and she can be killed, which is what gives her the motivation to rise against her.

Why did they make an eternal loli?

>>724030906
If Lace had blind faith in GMS and implicitly trusted in a higher plan then she wouldn't have freed Hornet and tried to kill her explicitly because GMS wanted her, genius.

>>724030876
explain

>>723996996 (OP)
It's a fine score. Not every great game needs to be deemed as perfect you fucking autist.

>>723997861
>_that_
I know what you are.

>>724031067
She doesn't appear enough, nor is she fleshed out enough, to justify the level of importance the story gives her towards the end.

>>723996996 (OP)
People got filtered

Itll slowly go back up as they release the free DLCs

>>724031032
Great catch! She wants to kill hornet in Deep Docks.
And yet she backs down after a little sparring anyway, why? And yet, also, she wants to die. Her actions don't have to make 100% sense, but they're congruent with her beliefs.

Those are great questions to make, if you dare make them seeing that the game doesn't want to spoonfeed you every answer to every question.

>>724013876
You're wrong and retarded btw

>>724030906
>>724031032
Actually you know what, that would've been a far better character than the Lace we got if she actually did have blind trust in GMS' higher plan. Hornet breaks free some other way, and Lace shows up as a recurring ally to help Hornet get to the Citadel. Except it turns out she's not doing it because she wants to help Hornet, but because she wants to deliver Hornet to GMS, and ends up fighting you at the very end in the Cradle to bring Hornet's silk to GMS, or at the very least soften her up for mommy to take down. Then Hornet actually beating her is what causes the crisis of faith that makes her mentally snap.
You know who did have blind trust in GMS' higher plan? Widow. That's the character you're thinking of. Not Lace.

>>724021649
I think it's a 7/10. I've played better action games and I've played better metroidvanias

>>724030327
>Thanks to the slab you already know that the cold area MUST have some refuge along the way that's possible to reach before dying, and there it is.
I disagree. The slab (if you did the prison break) makes it obvious that THE SLAB must have some refuges along the way, because you don't even have your gear during that sequence, it would be impossible otherwise. The fact that it also puts enemies and other shit up there also means that at some point you are going to get an upgrade that lets you survive the cold and explore away from the warm zones, and you do. Just not until after you do the biggest cold area.
The slab is also an actively maintained prison, with a population that can keep fires going and would need warmth, unlike Mount Fay where there's no real explanation for them or reason to assume they'd be there. The one that makes it even possible to get into the place is only there because Shakra brought it.

>>724030762
Who is going to do that in their first playthrough, at least if they didn't just look up a guide?
Neither silk eaters or rancid eggs are at all rare, on a normal playthrough they're rarely worth using compared to just picking up your bloodstain that was where you are heading anyway so you've probably got a stack of them regardless, but on a blind playthrough you probably have twice as many eggs sitting in your inventory as silk eaters.

>>724031223
But what is that importance you speak of?

>>724021649
Yeah it's my GOTY.

>>724031342
Final boss fight not enough huh

>>724031318
>because you don't even have your gear during that sequence, it would be impossible otherwise
But you have nothing in your gear that protects you against the cold. The moment you venture into mt fay with full gear, and still get the cold status, it should make it obvious.
> there's no real explanation for them or reason to assume they'd be there
From a narrative perspective no, from a gameplay perspective, yes. You can see there are structures there, even if not from the bugs of the slab, something has to be there, right? I was actually surprised by how barren the place is myself.

>>724031318
>Who is going to do that in their first playthrough, at least if they didn't just look up a guide?
Me. I literally did. I said all that because that's literally what I did in my first playthrough. I remembered that Styx promised free silkeaters, did the courier quest that makes him give two at a time, and figured "well if I'm getting two for free whenever I go back to him, I might as well use them." Still never needed to actually backtrack to him because the game gave more than enough anyway without him, but knowing I had an endless source for free if I needed them encouraged me to actually use them.

>>724021649

Why not? I think it's an excellent game and outaide of the shard system, is genuinely one of the best MVs in the genre.

>>723996996 (OP)
The answer is always

>>724031285
That would make her even more superflous: there are literal thousands of bugs across pharloom trying all to bring hornet to GMS.

>>724031526
No, there are literally thousands of bugs across Pharloom all trying to kill Hornet. That's the difference.

>>724031442
She's not the final boss, the final boss is the void, the void that, in her own words, is controlling her. She's basically just a damsel in distress at that point in the story. Just one that doesn't want to be saved.

>>724031342
She becomes a very major character out of nowhere. She's the pre-final boss for act 2, then the true final boss in act 3, and the true ending is Hornet and Lace traveling together. They clearly want you to care about her, but they don't put in the work to make her worth caring about.
It'd be like if in Sonic Adventure 2, Shadow's total screentime was the two fights against him, then the final boss then he dies. He would not have blown up as much as he did if they put that little effort into making him a character

>>724031619
Gameplay wise, yes. In universe, they're all under explicit orders of capturing her. So do the slab enemies kill you when you escape. So do the choir envoys when you find them in the citadel.

>>724031621
Ok Lost Lace the final boss has nothing to do with Lace like at all, it was the Void all along which is why the final boss is actually called The Void and has nothing to do with Lace and saving her and making sure she doesn't die

>>724031694
Anon, the game already has enemies that explicitly try to capture her instead of killing her. The game already has that. If they wanted the enemies to try to capture her, they would have made that the gameplay.

tfw /v/ is gonna seethe at both hk games for another decade

>>724031673
>major ally
Attacking GMS when she's already defeated, out of nowhere, for her own reasons, isn't "a major ally" nor out of nowhere. Saving hornet is just another insult to injury against GMS, she tells you this.
>the true ending is Hornet and Lace traveling together.
Where did you get this from, actually?
>>724031750
Just like she tells you the "one below isn't me anymore".

>>724031849
I said "major character" not "major ally". She's a major part of the story starting from the tail end of act 2 which is far too late for that kind of shit. Her importance comes out of nowhere

>>724031673
Are you seriously promoting outright misinformation right now? You said in the post title that it's electrocuting her, but I actually went into the game files and found the item she has equipped around her neck, and it very clearly cannot shock her:

If it were the type that COULD shock her, there would be a giant purple electric orb similar to what every other electric item in this game has, but this one very clearly doesn't have anything even remotely resembling that.

In fact, the item name is literally HornET-400 Educator, and the description doesn't mention "shock" or "electrocute" anywhere, instead only mentioning "stimulation". And even if it did shock Hornet, I doubt it would even really hurt her.

>>724031828
As I literally just told you: yes, the slab enemies capture hornet. The choir envoys capture hornet.
That's 2 enemies that capture hornet.
And yet, what do they do when you find them everywhere else except for those 2 scripted scenes where hornet is captured? Oh yeah, kill you. By that logic: half the enemies in pharloom are literally under the control of GMS, so why do they try to kill you if GMS wants you alive? The answer is gameplay. Deaths are not cannon anyway, you don't actually know what would happen if they actually hit hornet enough times for her to stop fighting back. But you'll notice that the death animation is the same as the capturing animation when the wardenfly gets you. hmmm, if only we stopped to think about things instead of waiting for the game to tell us everything explicitly.

I'm sorry, I cannot dumb things down more for you. I don't deal with babies, so I don't know how to spoonfeed things to you how you require.

>>724031469
>The moment you venture into mt fay with full gear, and still get the cold status, it should make it obvious.
You might have missed the entire topic here
You don't know that there is no gear for surviving the cold, for one thing there fucking is, you get it at the end of the area, and at that point in the game you're still missing several upgrades and have no idea where they are or how to get them.
The game strongly implies that you will get an ability to survive in the cold, because you do, so it is pretty natural to run into a cold zone, see that it kills you really fast, and think "I should come back after I get the ability that ignores cold" not "I should suicide run as far into the cold as possible just in case there is a warm zone that will save me before I die."

It's fine that you get the ability to ignore cold after doing the cold zone platforming challenge, it is pretty neat exploring everything when the pressure is off and it makes a pretty natural upgrade considering who you get it from. It's just kinda dumb that the game wants you to suicide run into the cold without knowing there is a warm zone at the end, when it would have been so easy to just stick one in the middle.

>>724032260
Can't you get to the top of the Slab without being captured and see the fires there

>>724032176
Pavo literally tells you what being Haunted is like after you free Bellhart. It's not as specific and direct as you think it is. It's more of a vague hivemind of memories with one's own being drowned out. You don't get Haunted and hear GMS say "okay now go capture that bug in the red cloak." It also wouldn't make sense for the territorial enemies like the ants or Bilewater denizens who actively try to kill pilgrims and Citadel choristers to try to capture Hornet, or the unintelligent creatures like the Shellwood bugs who again the Haunted Bellhart bugs are hunting.

So yeah it's hilarious how you want to pretend to be the smartest guy in the room when you don't pick up on basic things in the game. Oh well, so sad!

>>724015502
Act 3 is nothing but poor filler trying to squeeze some playtime between the three main fights, and even then it's lackluster.
>The requirements for Act 3 are never spelled out clearly.
I didn't have this problem, because I did all the quests anyways, but come on. You can't tell me you had fun doing the fucking fetch quests.
>The descent from the cradle and the bell eater fight
Both pretty kino. Sets expectations that the game fails to deliver on.
>The descent and ascent from the Abyss
The abyss in HK was never as fleshed out as it was supposed to be, and Silksong didn't take the opportunity to do so. Instead, it's over in a second. The ascent's pretty fun tho.
>Three Boss fights
Coral Tower is beautiful, and it's literally just a bunch of gauntlets. Karmelita is one gauntlet and no kingdom. Nyleth is harder to find than to defeat, and easily falls into one of the most dogshit fights in the game. Finding her is harder.
>Besides the bosses
Verdania is what these other dream sequences were supposed to be, yet you only visit it once and has two of the worst bosses in the game. Plus, it's the ONLY fucking time you use the needolin outside of the main quest.
>The overworld sucks
"Hey what if trashmobs did double damage and you had to reunlock your shortcuts lmao"
wow. 7 years.
>Optional bosses
All bosses besides the main ones are pure garbage.
>The finale
Fight Lace for the third time! Also she has the same attacks all overworld trashmobs have.

Acts 1&2 were everything I wanted. Act 3 is a bunch of poorly stitched content.

If you found this too hard you should try ender lilies

>>724033637
>Ender Lillies
Now there's a true kusoge.
I like the concept and the art but the game's just so fucking bland. If there was a game engine to design soulslike metroidvanias about a spreading corruption, EL would be the default product.

Act 3 is kino thoughbeit