Thread 724011292

Easy question. Is Bruce right?

No. If anything they'd be harder on it because Bethesda gets a pass for jankiness

>>724011292 (OP)
If it weren't Xbox exclusive then, yes. So basically, he's right.

>>724011292 (OP)
>We shouldn't hold Bethesda to any kind of standards.
kys Bruce

Bethesda wants to have it both ways where they are treated as a high end studio, but the forgiveness and a pass for when they continuously release dogshit

>>724011292 (OP)
it was release by another studio, its called no mans sky

>>724011292 (OP)
But it was released by another studio, it's called No Man's Sky, and it's better.

>>724011292 (OP)
>Bethesda
>Sells millions of copies to mixed reviews due to their name alone
>Some indie dev
>Might break 100k+ copies tops if they're really lucky and still get mixed reviews
I mean, he's not wrong.

>>724011407
This. I guess Bethesda developers simply don't understand how much shit is being forgiven for them that other developers would be crucified for. Absolutely braindead take of this guy, lacking any semblance of self-awareness.

>>724011292 (OP)
complete copium

>>724011292 (OP)
Yes, but not in the way he intended. Bethesda gets away with absolute murder for some reason. Any other studio and it would have gotten them crucified.

>>724011292 (OP)
If any other dev made starfield we wouldn't be talking about it at all.

>>724011292 (OP)
If it was released by any other studio hardly anybody would have played it.

>>724011732
>>724011790
I'm convinced people who say this and actually mean it really haven't play much of either game. Almost like saying Star Citizen, Mass Effect and Space Engineers are the same thing because they're in space and you can move around.

bethshit should count themselves lucky, without amazon money they would been on the chopping block

Yes, there's a plainly observable and borderline dogmatic double standard against Bethesda games which has existed for some years now regardless of any perceived dip in quality of theirs. These kind of things >>724011407 >>724011680 don't really happen anymore and if anything it's the opposite, i.e. games which actually are as buggy as Bethesda games are made out to be are arbitrarily given a pass (or are in some cases even used as a stick to beat them with despite not being particularly similar) and people simultaneously give their games little credit while also scratching their head at why no one else is able to compete with their niche.

>>724011878
>>724012008
This. But both also qualify as being received differently.

>>724012235
starfield wasn't even that buggy, it was shit purely on it's own merits. stuff like vendor chests under the ground in the middle of the town isn't a bug, it's just near criminal laziness with the amount of resources they have

>>724011292 (OP)
He's kinda right. Starfield sucked because bethesda strayed away from what made people like their games.

>>724011292 (OP)
Absolutely. Bethesda developed a reputation for releasing games at the forefront of western RPG tech. Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim were all technically advanced and HUGE compared to any other 3D-navigable WRPGs. If anyone else had released it, I think we would have seen them lifted up as "the next Bethesda" or "Bethesda's biggest competition".

Now, does that mean people would have actually liked the game more? I don't think so. But it would probably have a group of people that never shut up about how good it is and how the company is coming for Bethesda's lunch as opposed to long-time Bethesda fans bemoaning how the studio has fallen and gaming is doomed.

I think the best example is The Outer Worlds. It's a smaller-scale, slightly more jank, Bethesda-style game. People generally praise it though, saying it's impressive how the smaller studio managed to come close to Bethesda's level of scale and polish. If Bethesda had released it, I think we would have seen a Starfield-like reaction where everyone shat on it saying it was a disappointment (more than they already did, since it had a little bit of that because of who made it).

At this point Starfield is going to do on /v/ what BOTW did here. BOTW was seethed on for 7 straight years (even a little bit into when TOTK was still new). Starfield is now on 2 years straight and I don't see that stopping anytime soon at this point.

>>724012852
Same with RDR2. I've seen multiple posts and threads just this past week calling it "the worst game ever", and people making multiple posts defending that idea claiming they aren't being even a bit hyperbolic. Basically any popular game now creates this intense anti-fandom, seemingly from people that don't even play the games. It's usually all criticisms you could scrape together from watching a couple youtube videos or even just seeing meme screenshots on here.

>>724013242
it's been that way for years retard

>>724011292 (OP)
If any other studio had released Starfield, it would've been treated even worse, lmao

>>724012852
>>724013242
those are two of my favorite "brain-off" games. is it just a heterosexual-conservative-male-caucasian-of-european-heritage thing?

>>724013345
But where was here wrong? Considering it's only gotten worse, his point only got stronger overtime.

>>724012852
>>724013242
>three boring games are called boring
>pls no hate :(
maybe do consider going back at some point

>>724013242
LMAO
Starfield's case is not at all comparable to those two you retarded bethesdrone. Starfield is not some critically acclaimed game /v/ shits on out of contrarianism, it being bad and boring is the mainstream view

>>724011292 (OP)
>Any other studio would have made a better game
is a stunning but brave opinion by Bruce Nesmith here, and I have to say, is he wrong?

>>724011292 (OP)
They advertised this game as the ultimate space exploration game and that was by far the worst aspect of it. Most retarded marketing campaign every.

He's right.

It's not just Starfield too. People are shitting on old Bethesda games that were once roundly considered great these days. This was started by nvtrannies but has spiraled far beyond that now. The enforced gamer opinion is to hate Bethesda. They didn't really do anything to deserve that. It's just become "the correct opinion to hold".

It's impossible to look objectively at these threads and not see that there is a hateboner for Bethesda. It's probably mostly TES fans who saw Starfield taking daddy's time away from ES6, which to be fair has been taking forever.
If it was made by a random indie studio it would be vastly more liked but it'd also probably sell much fewer copies so w/e

It's called badwill and you deserve it after shit like Fallout 76.

>>724011292 (OP)
Yeah, it would have been critically panned immediately, rather than the thirty days of paid praise and spent cope.

>>724013345
Yes? RDR2 is 7 years old just like BOTW. Isn't that the point? That it's still happening today and has been for that long?

>>724014398
>ES6, which to be fair has been taking forever.
because it doesn't exist lol
anyone who is a tes fan knew mainline games were over ages ago when eso started printing money much in the same way fallout fans now know mainline fallout games over after 76 started printing money and has amazon money

>>724011292 (OP)

Well duh, that´s what a brand is. Expectations tied to history. Those expectations are the reason a game can sell millions of copies on the name of a company alone. On the flip side those expectations also set a quality bar that much higher to that of a relatively unknown player.

>>724014286
This
>>724011292 (OP)
Bethesda sucks but they really have earned badwill from gamers like >>724014402 says

Yes, 100% right. If it were released by any other studio it would have bomb bombed, instead of soft bombing like it did.

I find it funny Starfield issues Patch/News updates shilling paid mods. Fuck paid modders and fuck Todd for monetizing mods. FO76, FO4 and Starfield proved Bethesda is too shit to do anything anymore. Their least-hated recent games are just...graphical overhaul remasters of Skyrim and Oblivion. TES6 is cooked when it comes out and it's just Starfield with swords.

>>724011292 (OP)
if it had been released by any other studio it probably would've been a better game in the first place

>>724014286
>started by nvtrannies
That's cope. The actual reason that happened is simply because gaming is no longer the same thing it was in the late 2000s and early 2010s. Easily impressed casuals enthralled by the simple concept of killing dragons in an open world or looting skeletons on a post-apocalypse don't exist anymore, all the retards spamming fus ro dah memes and gawking at how you can shoot lightning at people in Skyrim in 2011 all moved on with their lives and don't bother defending Bethesda games from online critics, who have always existed. Here on 4chan for instance, a non-casual space opinion on Bethesda games have always been negative.
And so, Bethesda games are no longer looked at in a vacuum of how awesomesauce they are, instead they are now compared in quality to their fellow RPGs, and yes, naturally, particularly to higher quality takes on Bethesda's post-oblivion formula like New Vegas or even their own Morrowind. That's not some nefarious ploy by transexual New Vegas fanatics, it's a result of gamers having higher standards now. The same thing that leads shit like Concord to flop also harms Bethesda. And that's a good thing.

It'd be ignored if it wasn't bethesda.

>>724011292 (OP)
If it was made by Paradox you would have paid even more for DLC that fixed it over a course of five years.

>>724011292 (OP)
that's such an insightful statement, truly only a dev who worked on it could have made such determination

>>724014286
morrowind was barely known and oblivion was considered anything but great
bethesda was a noname studio until they finally came up with skyrim
no one except extreme anticontrarian contrarian faggots hates on niche things

>>724012852
>>724013242
>Starpajeets are comparing their trash to RDR2 and BOTW
What level of delusion is this LMAOOOO

>muh morrowind

Absolutely no one would forgive Morrowind if it were released today. It would get memed on 100x more than Starfield was.

>>724011407
fpbp

>>724011292 (OP)
I've never seen such a crappy game get defended so hard. Even the act of claiming the game "is not that bad, just a a decent, fun, time waster" feels disingenuous. People give janky games too much leeway.

>>724011292 (OP)
Yes.
If another studio has done starfield it wouldn't be garbage.

>>724015084
>it's just Starfield with swords
Bethesda seems to actually be aware of and respond to fan criticisms, surprisingly. Starfield didn't have voiced protagonists, it had a slightly more stat-based perk system than Fallout 4 did, and they made a big deal about showing off how you could pick different backgrounds and role play that way.

I think they're keenly aware of why people dumped on Starfield, with the chief things being:
planets were too empty
people wanted more depth from the systems (travel using fuel, suits having meaningful environmental effects, etc.) in ways that got cut

I suspect they will do their best to try and remedy those. If they succeed, then I think TES6 will be the "we are so back" game for them. Otherwise, I could see Microsoft closing down Bethesda when Todd leaves after TES6. Or at least downsizing them and focusing on the online games permanently.

>>724012121
Yeah, they have nothing in common. Certainly not being centrally about the exploration of procedurally generated planets, and getting criticised for consequently repetitious gameplay and content.

>>724011292 (OP)
They should have played the game. Posting things like this, if it is real, just shows they didn't even play their own game.
If they did play it and they liked it, it just shows everyone has different tastes and the game was made for them specifically.

>>724015497
Only in the amount of online seethe produced. No one is claiming it's the best game ever or even close to that. I don't know a single Bethesda fan that would put Starfield above their other games.

>>724015628
>No one would forgive a low poly game from the year 2002 if a big major developer released it today
Yeah no fucking shit retard, I'm sure you felt real smart when you typed that out
Now, if a game with Morrowind's story, lore and worldbuilding with an even slightly refined version of its widely acclaimed magic and other RPG systems was released, or if a more polished otherwise untouched version of Morrowind was released by an indie studio, it would be very well received because it'd be a good fucking game

>>724011292 (OP)
no
it's like they didn't do any qa testing at all

>>724015925
>when Todd leaves after TES6
He said he wanted to do Fallout 5, so that'll likely be his swan song. That'll probably be the next project after TES VI too.

Im happy shartfeld failed desu

>>724011292 (OP)
No. It would still be jeet slop. Denounce jeet slop.

>>724016018
The "seethe" Starfield produced was entirely composed of people rightfully shitting on it for being a low quality game, and it happened all over the internet, not just here. Again, that's not fucking comparable to /v/ contrarians shitting on BOTW and RDR2 because they have open world fatigue or because the cowboy isn't racist enough.

TES
>an epic tale of fantasy where you are the key to an ancient conflict and you can be or do anything
Fallout
>explore the wasteland of the apocalypse with fun and weird distractions along the way. will you help rebuild the world or rule it?
Starfield
>uhh you hit your head and you are a part of a group of explorers and you need to find mcguffins. by the way there was an epic galaxy battle that happened right before you started playing, want to hear an audio log about it?

as someone who REALLY gave it a good chance it's the story and lore that just really fucking make it stupid. the parts are not bad but it's SUCH BORING lore it's unreal. It ruins the immersion. basically nothing you do matters and you are not allowed to go off the rails at all because Emil is a lazy piece of shit that can't write branching narratives. the fact that there isn't even a counter faction to constellation that you can join instead is insane. all the other factions are just completely optional quests that don't tie into the main story at all. it would be so easy to make the pirates a legit "evil" faction but they are so fucking neutered it's ridiculous. the entire big plan with them is just hurrr get lots of money. they hire you and you have GODLIKE POWERS OVER TIME AND SPACE AND A MAP TO OTHER UNIVERSES and that's the best they can think to do with you, steal money.

>>724011292 (OP)
Yeah, it would have sold much less

>>724011292 (OP)
he's right in that he wouldn't have sold a single copy
the only reason people gave it the time of day was because it was bethesda

this guy needs to be run over

>>724016253
>pic
Sheesh, how could you do this to yourself?

>>724016059
The trippy visuals and imaginary environments of old games were related to the low poly count. There's a reason why people started to do boring realistic shit as graphics demands got higher. Not to mention the need for vastly longer dev times, larger teams and more outsourcing which also reduces creativity and willingness to take risks.

Ironically if Starfield was released in the 00s it might have been a classic. If Morrowind released now it would be shit.

>>724016059
I think the recent Oblivion remaster proves this. I saw a shitload of people saying they were amazed at the level of depth even when comparing it to Skyrim and other newer games. A graphically impressive game with Morrowind-like systems would probably get labeled as some kind of "super hardcore old school" RPG these days. There would be thousands of youtube videos all giving (terrible) explanations of how the stats work, what racial/starsign/class builds work best, and telling people to go find a bunch of early power items to break the game. Completely different reaction to a game like Starfield or Fallout 4 where nobody really does this because pretty much any build works fine and you can eventually get all the perks.

>>724016178
I guess Todd will still be there in twenty years then.

>>724012737
A bigger cause of the negative reaction than Bethesda name was the ammount of shilling done during development and post-launch. If you sell a product as the next big thing, say it was developed for 8 years, for a cost of 200 million, with a 300-400 million marketing cost, its going to garner a negative reaction than some indie studio being discovered.

>>724013606
brown hands typed this post

>>724016484
>Completely different reaction to a game like Starfield or Fallout 4 where nobody really does this because pretty much any build works fine and you can eventually get all the perks.
That's not true. Seen plenty of videos about Fallout 4 on which perks are worth getting early, how to get non-leveled scaled equipment early, how to actually survive in survival mode, etc.

>>724011292 (OP)
Any game with a 400 million dollar marketing budget will get the same ammount of shit if its actually shit, regardless of the studio developing it.

Marketing forces people to have an opinion on a product. If the product is shit, the marketing will exasperate negative reaction.

If you eat at local shitskin deli and get diarhhea, you shit your insides out and forget about it soon. If that same diarhea deli has massive shilling campaign, you get angry.

>>724016861
>Any game with a 400 million dollar marketing budget
What does that have to do with Starfield?

>>724016985
I sincerely hope you at least get paid some of that 400 mil to have such shit opinion.

>>724011292 (OP)
Remember hasbro forced larian to release bg3 unfinished a month early because they were worried about slopfield

>>724017156
>the gaming press is full of shit unless they are just pulling budget figures out of their ass in which case they are completely accurate
okay

>>724017449
So you are saying nobody advertised starfield at all? Or do you have a better number for the marketing cost of the game?

>>724011292 (OP)
no other company would have released the game with those NPCs

>>724011528
>Xbox exclusive
It was never exclusive.

>>724011292 (OP)
It only gets any modicum of praise because Bethesdafags worship the studio and todd.

>>724011878
>Absolutely braindead take of this guy, lacking any semblance of self-awareness.
You summed up Bethesda devs

mid AF

What were the thinking

>>724011292 (OP)
Witcher 4 is DOA, cyberpunk 2077 ,outer worlds, no man's sky, even elden Ring got mixed reviews, Diablo 4, Zelda tears of the kingdom.

This is obviously excluding marketing websites like IGN,Gamespot, etc...


And I liked tears of the kingdom and elden ring despite their missteps.

>>724023565
elden ring was shit and I'm done pretending otherwise

>>724011292 (OP)
Yes, it would get slammed even harder

>>724011292 (OP)
Is he really pretending the studio wasn't super popular at one point, despite already existing quality issues? And that it wasn't only after they threw every remaining shred of quality and appeal over board, which is what resulted in Starfield in the first place, that their popularity took a dive? Even for Starfield they were still a gazillion normalfags ready to relive the Skyrim hype, before it turned out it was just that shit, so horrendously bad that everyone gave up at even attempting to add or fix anything via mods.

For any Bethesda employee to make a public statement other than 'once again we decided not to hire any writers, and the results were predictable' is just sad
its like someone not knowing what they look like in the mirror

blud be trippin fr fr

>>724014397
Reminder the game never said this was a strip club.

>I dunno, might be interesting but it would be funny if it was just Skyrim in Space
>player character is literally space Dovahkiin

>>724011292 (OP)
yeah, it would have had even less players
starfield didn't do more than year 1 no man's sky, it just had a bethesda main quest, which is NOT what people play bethesda games for, sorry "wormgod" emil

>>724011292 (OP)
it would've been shat even harder on that note hope the elder scrools VI fucking sucks so we can move on from bethesda being a good developer

>>724011292 (OP)
>People no longer involved in the industry have an opinion on something
Why do they still kiss the ass of their former employer as if they'll ever get their old job back? If they applied they wouldn't even be able to complete the interview process.
Most of the lead and managers were burnt by wrangling pajeets and couldn't get them to do their jobs and so they left behind the industry.

>>724013242
Starfield deserves it, RDR2 does not. Hint: the entire internet, unequivocally, shits on Todd's game. RDR2 is adored and claimed by normies to be one of the best videogames ever made in the industry. They are not the same.

>>724016253
>uhh you hit your head and you are a part of a group of explorers and you need to find mcguffins. by the way there was an epic galaxy battle that happened right before you started playing, want to hear an audio log about it?
kek, replace 'audio log' with 'item description' and you described the souls games as well

>>724011292 (OP)
>Easy question: is vishnu lord?
No he's not and I spit upon him

>>724026959
Christjew detected.

This is complete nonsense. That guy needs to watch Forbidden Planet, Buck Rogers, and early Star Trek. He needs a reminder of why people enjoy sci-fi. He needs to go back to the basics.

>>724011292 (OP)
dogshit is dogshit no matter the dog's ass it came from

>>724029965
You mean a reminder why sci-fi sucks?

>>724011292 (OP)
The delusion of these retards. Expect the same kind of Staefield trash in thee next TES.

>>724031938
sci-fi is great when done well. Bethseda can't into sci-fi, which is why they always fuck up Fallout.

Why dont they shut the fuck up like hello games and slowly improve the game?

>>724032391
To be completely fair, every other fuckin' studio that had their hands on it fucked up fallout in some way, too.
Interplay did it with Fallout BoS. Obsidian did it by making the main setting the most uninteresting thing to explore ever. (for a post nuclear war rpg, it sure seems like they forgot that there needed to be significant damage/effects from the nuclear war right up until the very end of development, and they went "lol mr house got rid of most of the nukes before they reached the vegas area somehow. no, there is no clear structures or anything that would indicate how he managed to do this. We TOTALLY didn't forget about the 'nuclear war' part of our post nuclear war rpg".

>>724011292 (OP)
>Space is boring in real life so we would've had to make space travel boring in our video game!
No, he's a big fucking retard.

>>724022717
It's an interesting example. In ME2 all the environments are just backdrops for a tiny playable area and the "space travel" is a loading screen minigame. If Bethesda designed the game like that /v/ would have raged endlessly. Not even unreasonably considering how unambitious it would be compared to their usual design.
desu this example kind of proves their point

>>724011292 (OP)
once again devs don't have any idea how business works and live in their tone deaf bubbles letting their egos dig their grave on the grand shit stage of twitter

>>724011292 (OP)
probably right because bethesda titles have expectations but I think if some unknown studio released it, it would have just failed.

>>724011292 (OP)
no, the game was just bad
the only shit that was cool was ship building
nasa punk is lame
they copy pasted map where lame
the multiple load screen where lame
and he was lame too

>>724011292 (OP)
>received differently
Worse? It would have been received worse
>>724026959
Finally someone else who gets it

>>724037579
>if some unknown studio released it, it would have just failed
not if they approached it strategically. the trick would be to release the game halfway done in early access. then everyone could imagine their pet issue with the game (like lack of space travel) being fixed later and would excuse it. there is a ton of pent up demand for space autism and willingness to dream of impractical shit.

Roberts made insane money off of this kind of trash with far less substance backing it up. Starfield actually has insane level of polish for its cursed genre. its fatal flaw is it sold itself as finished and denied the spacefags their chance to dream of retarded impossible shit

>>724011407
Literally the opposite and you are so fucking retarded for thinking otherwise. Look up Starfield reviews on youtube, and anyone that isn't a gaming article outlet shits on it because lol Bethesda. I played through the game and launch and got through it with zero bugs. Faggots just like crying about Bethesda and you retards act like they have an angelic forgiving audience. Yes, they make money because people will always buy the game anyways. That doesn't mean nobody criticizes them. Retard.

Is that when this normal for behavior?

>>724025706
Ah yes, the Cyberpunk hellhole of the galaxy where lives are destroyed, every vice is indulged and everything is for sale.
Except sex of course, what the hell is wrong with you!

What is it that in hand even trying doing?

What is they thinking for?

>>724011407
This. Honestly, I expected jank, and would have been fine with it if they gave half a shit and made it fun, because it was bethesda. Unfortunately, when I started unlocking space dragon shouts, I realized that they cared far less about Starfield than I did.
I wonder how we got to the point where companies are baffled that people don't want to eat their laziest shit. It's astonishing.

If it were another company, I would have never made it that far. I'd have just dropped it within an hour and roasted it every chance I got, like I did for Outer Worlds.

If another studio handled it, it wouldn't have the game's retarded fault, would it?

Do she know it?

Do you not know of?

>>724011407
this doesn't contradict what the xshitter post in OP says,

No, they fucked up. They added 3-4 loading screens between any activity that you'd do in any other TES title and swapped a map with a bunch of little things to do and see with 100s of maps with nothing to do or see. What a fucking moron.

What causes for this it?

>>724012737
That's not really true. Both Outer Worlds and Avowed got shit on.

>>724025706
kys

Like Gamefreak, Bethesda never evolved or learned how to actually make games for modern hardware.
And instead of learning or getting staff that did, we’ve entered an era of outsourcing and garbage just getting accepted.
>But reviews! Blowback!
Don’t matter. Never mattered. Never will matter. Your money staying in your wallet doesn’t matter. You boycotting their bullshit doesn’t matter. Some retard will make sure of that. Retards outnumber you.
So move on and enjoy games from people who do care or at least are half-competent instead. Not to make a difference, but to have some fucking fun instead of being upset.

Why are game developers the one group of people who seem completely incapable of having some humility?

>>724024175
>superbosses have big arenas thats why its bad
copium levels overloading.

>>724034810
you can tell a post is quality when they forget they're writing in open punctuation mid-sentence

>>724011292 (OP)
Maximum cope here. The story and characters are just not that good. I don't care who puts their names on this game. It is what it is.

>>724011292 (OP)
It was boring and shallow. Having lower expectations wouldn't have made it any less so.

>>724011292 (OP)
>WE HATE BETHESDA
>oh, you merely hate us for being Bethesda?

>>724011292 (OP)
Honestly just give Chris Avellone & Obsidian full creative control over a sequel set after a massive timeskip to just go insane and do whatever they want and you'd have a hit, and also add alien races/companions.

>>724011407

Creation Engine: "At Least It's Not UE5"

>>724011292 (OP)
He's right.

>>724040097
>Chris Avellone & Obsidian
>Looks at everything Obshitian has put out since NV
Na senpai, they'd somehow make it worse.

>>724014286
Roundly considered great?
Not to start a boasting-war, but I'm a classic nufag from 2008 and I remember people criticising Oblivion as a deeply flawed game with shitty worldbuilding and unacceptably shit level-scaling. Before Skyrim was announced I remember many (including me) were hoping it would be Bethesda's "redemption" for past sins, but then it released and it was seen how incompetently unoptimized it was with things like normal maps not even working, or how stripped down skills and magic was and how profoundly weak the guild questlines were.

This is not new. This is /v/. For over 15 years "mainstream video game discourse" has been dominated by pro-corporate, cock sucking quisling journalists who will hand out 8/10s for games they can't even be bothered to finish. If you only came to /v/ after you played these games you probably never even realised people COULD criticise them.
/v/ and rpg codex are the only places where you're "allowed" to sensibly criticise games so it has the side effect of condensing all the pent-up nonsense criticism from across the internet psychosphere, but this criticism still often has a core of truth to it.