Thread 724045527

>>724045527 (OP)
>Elves are actually trolls
>Humans are actually degenerated vikings
>Dwarves are degenerated androids
>The lich king is actually an orc

Warcraft lore was kino

>>724045527 (OP)
>humans are actually aliens

>>724045709
>WE WUZ EMPERORZ N SHIT MAN
VGH... if only the Aqir-Zandalari Hyper War never happened

>>724045785
Wild Arms was a pretty neat series.

>>724045785
>vangers

>>724045785
>white people are aliens that got reseted
>black people came from monke and got partially uplifted by white people

>>724045527 (OP)
>illegal aliens

>>724045527 (OP)
personally, i prefer the "demons are actually arabs" trope

>>724045709
>Dwarves are degenerated androids
>The lich king is actually an orc
Hold on, this actually happened?

>>724046607
yups and titans are retarded clankers too alongside all creation by shitlands ending

>>724046607
Pretty sure those were both known as far back as vanilla

>>724046308
Holy shit if you break apart the continents (and sink cyrodil) you basically get WoW's map. Mind blown.

>>724046607
Humans, gnomes, dwarves were originally stone or robotic constructs made by the Titans. The Old Gods basically did one final “fuck you” to the Titans and afflicted their creations with the Curse of Flesh. Most caught it and then were forced to leave in exile by the ones that were spared from it. Later Blizzard extended this to other races. Orcs are some some pieces of sentient stone that fell off a Titan construct on Draenor that was used to fight an alien plant.

Part of me wishes I was making this up.

>>724046607
Lich King has been an orc from the beginning of Warcraft III, and about half the races are some form of cursed robot.

>>724045527 (OP)
Yes I say kino

>>724046994
>Part of me wishes I was making this up.
Someone else already did this for you. And it was shit.

This is an Elf who spent too much time in water

>>724045527 (OP)
It was established in the wc3 manual that the burning legion was mostly races that sargeras had recruited and turned into demons.

Legion giving them literal spaceships was stupid.

>>724046994
Aren't the trolls(and by extension elves because they evolved from trolls)also the only native sapient race on Azeroth?

>>724046994
Flesh being a cursed unnatural state is like the last cool thing in warcraft lore.

>>724047094
And snorted too much magic.

>>724046994
Humans got a double dose of the Curse of Flesh.
Iron Vrykuls were the original creation made to be the frontline fighters in the war against the Black Empire, then they got cursed into regular flesh Vrykuls, then got cursed AGAIN and turned into small and weak humans.

>>724047035
Based and "HOOOOOOO"-pilled.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-qxU0MJNhA

>>724047098
Actually no I got it wrong originally the legion were evil races/demons that sargeras himself had imprisoned then when he went nuts he made them into his army

>>724047136
tauren? i'm no lore sage but i don't think they were uplifted in any way.

>>724046607
Never played Frozen throne? The old Lich King was Ner'Zul, an orc.

>>724046308
>dwarves are actually elves
I do like this, makes them closer to Norse myth where the term was used interchangably for the same thing

>>724047136
Goblins are native to Azeroth too technically. Although they're a result of Titans tempering with another native race (pygmies) so I don't know if that counts.

>>724046607
not sure "androids" is the right word, more like "golems"
but yes

>>724047136
I think the animal races are all native, tauren, furbolgs, pandaren etc

>>724047094
they were drowning or something with azshara after she fucked up and the old god nzoth was like "accept my power or die yall"

>>724047094
Remind me again, how many years did the elfs need for them to get gills and scales? 2000? 10000? The scale of this evolution/sidevolution is whack.

>>724045527 (OP)
I love this trope desu.
>>724045709
Warcraft has absolutely the best original fantasy vidya lore.

>>724047349
naga are the result of magic bullshit, it wasn't natural evolution

>>724047369
There's nothing original about its lore.

>>724047410
>game is about god getting sick and succumbing to his illness

>>724047284
Goblins also go from retarded to smart and greedy because they touch magic rocks, right?

Ogres came from Dreanor too right?

>>724047412
Using magic to wave away shit is boring. It really makes the world feel small. Did everything in the lore happen in just 10k years or so?

>>724047419
Elves being and evolution of trolls is original enough.

>>724047484
>wait its all corruption?
>chris metzen holding a gun:always has been

>>724047369
>Warcraft
>original
Warhammer would like a word

>>724047461
>also shoots his only friend because he thinks they have the coof

I quit after Shadowlands
With all the Titan and old god shit happening
Did my favorite Edgy Boy ever came back? or atleast hinted he's coming back?

>>724047469
Yeah.
Basically Mimiron grabbed a random race to do experiments on them, fed them a bunch of rocks and it turned them super intelligent.
He left them around without the magic rock for too long and they reverted back to their retarded selves.
Trolls then enslaved them, forcing them to mine the magic rock, which got them super smart again, they rebelled, told the trolls to fuck off and built their own capitalist shithole.
Also their widely consumed sodaslop contains the magic rock which is why it's advertized as giving you ideas for inventions.
The reason why their inventions fail or blow up so often is that their ingenuity is extremely random and depends entirely on how much magic rock they snort.

>>724047484
Anon what the fuck do you think warcraft is

>>724047774
All this makes me want to see Goblins without their INT-stones. Is that a thing?

>>724047821
A misused and abused franchise.

>>724047631
No, but sylvanas is coming back. Maybe she can be a decent character again now that she no longer has to be a secret villain

>>724047825
i believe there's some quests that touch on that during the goblin starting zone, but don't quote me on that because it's been at least a fucking decade since i visited that area.

>>724047825
I think that's more or less what hobgoblins are. Although apprently it's not due to a lack of magic rock. They're just Down-syndrome Goblins who were born fat and retarded.

>>724047281
A dwarf and and elf... is a dwelf

>>724045527 (OP)
Sex, with futa succubi

>>724047919
eww, Fuck sylvanas and muh death muh sorrow
I want my boy dropping cringe edgy lines ones again

>>724047919
It's so pathetic they still have sylvanas and not illidan, like cmon bro

>>724045527 (OP)
It's the other way around.

>>724045527 (OP)
>>demons are actually aliens
>their main base is actually a spaceship
>that ancient pyramid in the desert? yep, also a spaceship
>the ancient weapons of legend? blaster rifles
>the angels? actually just automatons to fight aliens
>the wise oracle? actually just an AI core
>the mystical artifact everyone's after? it's a 3d printer

>>724047349
Evolution is gay, magic race systems are more interesting

>>724048187
Did the reverse ever happened? Like aliens that turns out to be divine daemons or some shit?

>>724048187
>the wise oracle? actually just an AI core
Oh fuck. Imagine a remake or a mod for the old games using a LLM trained on Might and Magic lore as the oracle.

>>724047136
Considering theyre actually going with the whole “the other side of Azeroth is unexplored” and they introduced a hollow Earth concept back in Cataclysm it would not surprise me if there were countless ecosystems and races native to the planet. Of course it doesnt help most of them are lame and muddy an already clusterfucked narrative.

>>724045709
humans are also actually degenerated androids, same as dwarves

warcraft taking the turns it took is so heartbreaking as someone who grew up with the rts and all the cool shit blizzard did back in the 2000s. now it's like i have to give up a part of my childhood because it's all ruined

Was there a nuremberg trials thing after Sylvanas shitfest
Did the Goblins say they were just following orders?

>>724049369
The Horde hasn't been put on trial for attempted genocide or criminal acts or murdering and cannibalism since WC2.

>>724045527 (OP)
ngl I would immediately fold and become a thrall of the burning legion for sayaad pussy.

>>724047825
Gilgoblins, technically. Not really sure where the gill part got mixed into the equation.

>>724048397
I guess Shyamalan's Signs if you subscribe to the fan theory.

>>724047631
the new expansion trilogy has something to do with titans, and Azeroth's worldsoul which is alluded be the core of a unborn titan. I'm betting Illidan is reintroduced in the last part of this trilogy.

They already brought back the army of the light and those light dreadlords from Legion in Midnight.

>>724045527 (OP)
>aliens are actually ancient humans

>>724050643
They have a treasure trove of bullshit to milk from alternate dimensions, timelines, “new” parts of Azeroth or even making up some anime filler level expansion where the players and lore figures get sent to aid people on another planet and fight more aliens. The sad reality is WoW is capeshit and capeshit is a neverending, serialized, soap drama.

>>724045709
what about gnomes?

>>724045527 (OP)
It could've been beautiful.

>>724046994
>Part of me wishes I was making this up.
It was kind of cool when it was just dwarves and gnomes and was still mysterious. the vrykul-human thing was meh, it kind of made sense for humans to be titan constructs, but it was hard to suspend disbelief about there being a whole seafaring civilization of giant proto-humans just up north a bit that somehow nobody had run into. and then, extending it to the orcs was just the final nail in the coffin.

they really made a mistake focusing so much on titan shit over the years, it was cool when it was just something mysterious going on in the background that you uncovered little bits and pieces of. but now the whole lore is this big cosmic pantheon shit where the titans aren't even the top of the hierarchy anymore. it just got ridiculous.

>>724046607
>The lich king is actually an orc
that's not WoW fanfiction nu-lore, it was always a thing, the Lich King is in fact an orc shaman called Nerzul which used to work for Killjaden but after he betraid him his soul was put into those pieces of armor by Killjaden as a punishment

>>724047484
>Did everything in the lore happen in just 10k years or so?
well actually, a bunch of stuff happened 10k years ago, and then pretty much nothing happened for 10k years, and then within the span of 20 years there's been several back-to-back world ending cosmic threats.

>>724052083
In fact, WoW pretty much ended up retconning it and erasing any traces of Ner'zul in the Lich King. He was done away with in a book and basically never mentioned in WOTLK iirc. I always thought that was a big stumble because the Lich King being both Arthas and Ner'zul was part of what made him really cool. Then they had a chance to revisit Ner'zul in WOD, and he died in a fucking 5-man dungeon. What a shame.

>>724046308
There's even like 6 more types of elves which don't even show up in the main scrolls games

Like the Maomer or sea elves who don't actually have a home on tamriel and just go around doing pirate stuff

>>724052189
That's what he gets for raping alexstraza

i want a singleplayer game like 2004-2010 WoW
are there any good ones?

>>724052930
Kingdoms of Amalur is a commonly suggested one

>>724045527 (OP)
Aliens are demons in any case

Functionally there's no difference between them. Interdimensional travelers that glow, appear and disappear and have hostile intentions

>>724045527 (OP)
WCIII/demons were way cooler during that very first teaser video, when we didn't know they were demons and thought that fel golem was a magical alien robot invasion force.

>>724047960
In the RPG Hobgoblins were an alchemical creation, a short lived servant/slave species. But now you go to Undermine and there's just Hobgoblin citizens walking around like they're ordinary folks so who knows what they're meant to be?

>>724052092
It makes sense since all the happenings are the result of the legion up until BFA

>>724049418
>The Horde hasn't been put on trial for attempted genocide
There was a whole book called War Crimes where Garrosh is put on trial at the end of MoP

>>724052930
Gedonia is jank and kind of shitty but might scratch that itch

>>724053560
Anon no one ever thought that.

>>724052189
They almost recovered in legion with bolvar lich king acting suspiciously similar, hinting nerzhul had been in there all along playing the long con and may have been preparing bolvar for a bodyhop while playing up the arthas persona, but then shadowlands shat all over that fun possibility

>>724046994
>Orcs are some some pieces of sentient stone that fell off a Titan construct on Draenor that was used to fight an alien plant.
The Breaker lineage goes Grond > Colossals > Magnaron > Gronn > Ogron > Ogres > Orcs

>>724047267
Xalatath implied in legion that Tauren were somehow related to Old Gods

>>724049418
Trial by who? The alliance who the horde don't give a fuck about? Each other?
>oh hey you're on trial for cannibalism
>yeah we did eat people, it's no big deal to undead or trolls
>ok fair let's wrap this up and go queue for AB

>>724052189
He got a more dignified sendoff in Shadowlands than Arthas did. And this was an abomination.

>>724053738
well a lot of it was the Old Gods too. Ragnaros, the Ahn'qiraj War, Ulduar, Cataclysm, Pandaria, all Old Gods. I guess they just decided to start stirring shit up around the same time as the Legion. Actually, wasn't it retconned that Sargeras was trying to stop Azeroth from being corrupted by Old Gods or something? I can't keep track anymore. So I guess they're related, vaguely. Still.

>>724054868
Sargeras went insane over the vast amounts of planets and evil things in the universe the worst of which were Old Gods who are just pawns of the Void Lords who havent been seen once and are being retconned already to being “morally grey” compared to the Naaru or other “good” sides.

>>724047919
>sylvanas back for midnight
>when they already have a replacement for her

>>724047631
He's returning in the last titan. He'll probably say that the titans are up to no good or w/e.

>100,000 years ago
Dimensius destroys K'aresh
>25,000 years ago
Sargeras corrupts the Eredar
>10,000 years ago
War of the Ancients
>1000 years ago
War of the Shifting Sands
>30 years ago
WC1
>5 years ago
WC3
>Vanilla WoW starts

Almost 30 years have passed in game since then.

>>724046973
not really
blizzard have always been hacks incapable of a single original thought

>>724052930
Literally WoW SPP. You'd have to make some micromanagement for dungeons for some tight spots. You'll definitely have to do micro for raids, but so far i haven't reached them yet. You can actually travel and do quests with the full party with the bare minimum of "follow me", "stop and do nothing", "stop and guard", "follow me and do nothing else" and "attack my target". Bots can emulate banter a bit, would even reply you for various commands and just to talking to them.
In case you would actually want to keep some permanent party and do quests with them you'd also want to see inventory and quest management commands, but everything is in the manual.
As a bonus it is basically a normal self-hosted WoW server, so it can be opened into LAN or Internet and you can invite your friends. They'd need only vanilla/BK/Lich client depending on which particular version you'd like to play.

>>724052092
Thanks for reminding me. kek

>>724053053
The story is dogshit with gay ass celting elf courts of whimsical dancing and other shit. Gameplay is ass too.

>>724054294
god Shadowlands was SO BAD

WoW lore is so dumb.
No wonder most players skip the dialogue, watch the cutscenes, and have no idea what the story is.

>>724054868
Sargeras wanted to destroy the universe and remake it since his job was to kill all the shitbags in the universe and he got depressed at how many shitbags there were in comparison to non-shitbags.

>>724055813
WoW barely even tries to tell a story ingame. You get a better grasp of what happens in the expanisons by reading lore in a wiki. Especially the other faction story because there is no way of knowing what happens there if you dont have a characters on both horde and alliance.

>>724055813
the story was kinda fine pre shadowlands though

>>724054294
Is there anyone in warcraft who's had a worse afterlife than nerzhul? Considering he died in WC2 and it's been one thing after another since then.

>>724056060
>Especially the other faction story
Literally hasn't mattered since BfA

>>724045709
>The lich king is actually an orc
That reveal is not like others, Orcs in Warcraft were into necro stuff from WC1

>>724046607
>The lich king is actually an orc
>Hold on, this actually happened?
WoW and it's consequences was disaster for franchise

>>724046607
the helmet arthas wears contains the soul of a super powerful orc warlock (the original lich king) that basically wrestles with him for for control. it's called the helm of domination. warcraft 3 expansion ends with arthas donning the helm and settling into a long sleep in the ice. that's why the WotLK cinematic trailer hit like a semi-truck back in the day, it was a direct continuation of W3's end cinematic - we finally saw what arthas did when he woke up

>>724056161
>playing past MoP

Kys

>>724052189
When I finished Frozen Throne I was under impression that Nerzul was more in control. And Arthas was still victim of Scourge
But no, WoW changed it so Lich King is Arthas, turning him into another Kerrigan but male

>>724045527 (OP)
A*hem* corrupted aliens

>>724056253
>wrestles with him for control
Originally they merged into one being, then a book decided orcs were icky so had arthas kill nerzhuls soul by imagining stabbing it, then later it was decided nerzhuls soul still exists and is wandering northrend, then maybe he was still in the helm all along, and then no, he was in super hell being tortured for failing to kill all life on azeroth, despite his failure being part of j'lors plan all along

>>724055813
Pre-WoW Warcraft lore was great. Warcraft 3 is still one of the best video game narratives. Even vanilla WoW was fine, although at that point the game didn't really have an overarching narrative. But it had great worldbuilding, even if it took a few liberties for the sake of having two factions.
But after vanilla, it's just a trainwreck. They had no idea how to tell a story in an MMO, and were butchering og Warcraft lore and characters as early as TBC and Wrath. By the time of Cataclysm it was just completely off the rails.

>no mention of Draenei retcons ITT
>how how guys from FT are not true Draenei but deformed form
>real draenei are aliens who are good version of one of Legion main demon race

>>724056619
>didn't really have an overarching narrative
Until Naxxramas the raids were all built up to through continent wide storylines

>>724056704
Don't care since it gave us qtp Yrel.

>>724048397
Star Trek Strange New Worlds season 3

>>724045527 (OP)
>Haranir become Trolls
>Trolls become Night Elves
>Night Elves become High Elves
>Night Elves become Highborn
>Night Elves become Naga
>High Elves become Half-elves

>>724048039
Or perhaps... a 'dwemer'?

>>724056814
True. But there were several threads going on at once, and none of them really felt dominant over the others. Some of them were told pretty subtly too, and were mostly taking place in the background of other stories. Like the Silithids, you run into them a couple of times in the Barrens and Tanaris but they're not the main focus of those zones. It's not until the war in Silithus begins later that you figure out what's going on there. If there was one 'main' narrative of vanilla, it was really the story of the Horde and Alliance taming the lands and consolidating power. But it wasn't focused on a single narrative strand the way later expacs were.

>>724057148
don't forget the Nightborne, Blood Elves, Void Elves

>>724045527 (OP)
I never really thought of the draenei as aliens when BC first came out. For years I always heard them called space goats and didnt get it. It wasnt until Legion where it became clear they were from another planet. I just thought they came through a portal from like the orcs did.

>>724057496
Orcs are aliens from another planet and always have been. Were you dropped on your head as a child?

>>724057421
And delves

>>724057421
>>724057148
You're forgetting Felblood Elves, Felborne, Satyr and Fal'dorei (spiders)

>>724045874
I wonder if BAssassin was going to be some not so sneaky bard class.

>>724046826
My life for Ner'zhul! was to vague a hint

>>724047343
>yall
all the lovecraft speak is so unnerving

>>724047631
>after Shadowlands
Lol. You've been contaminated anon. Better lock yourself up and avoid human contact for the rest of your life or you'll damn us all

>>724045709
Weren't humans technically also degenerated androids? Vrykul came after.

>>724055689
YOU are brown

>>724058237
To be fair "After Shadowlands" is kinda lying, I quit before the 2nd patch.

>>724047919
Even mentioning her again makes me puke, I watched midnight cutscene and it's still pretty bad. She's so lonely, so innocent and did nuffing wrong. Sylvanas is the last character that I wanted to see again. They've made redemption arc for Illidan after TBC, why they can't revive Kael'Thas for midnight or something? It's still better for old characters to stay dead, but his death in TBC was so shit that I don't mind if they'll try to at least let him have a propper farewell.

>>724048397
DooM?

Sylvanas will get a solid dicking and turn into a mushy lovey dovey wife

>>724058936
>why they can't revive Kael'Thas
Because he's atoning for his sins in Revendreth

>>724051596
They're degenerated androids like dwarves, but dwarves were mining droids and gnomes were like admin computers

>>724045527 (OP)
>no Ogres
>no Vrykul
>instead you can 50 different flavours of elf, sassy gay dragons and gender neutral dwarves made of rocks
Glad I left this faggot game behind long ago. Fuck Blizzard.

>>724059261
People who love quirk chungus content like Critical Role are the ones writing wow now.

>>724052189
The biggest letdown was in that how cartoonishly evil was Lich King in WotLK. He neither cool as Arthas, nor intimidating, he's walking clishe. And the ending of WotLK is one of the most retarded thing in warcraft, how he can be so bad at his job in scourge without him is so dangerous that they need to make another Lich King? And it's not like Arthas somehow fights back and still have some good, it's all because his plans were so retarded that scourge's army loses on all fronts in Northrend.

>>724056158
Taron Gorefiend famously refused to die several times, don't know if that counts.

>>724059375
I will NEVER forgive those fags for what they did to D&D and western fantasy as a whole. They've almost single handedly feminized an entire genre. Where the fuck is the grittiness and sex appeal? Nothing is made for us anymore.

>>724059180
This isn't even really Kael. Its a parody of Kael some intern wrote the dialog for after haphazardly skimming through his lore and playing the BC raid once.

>>724059463
What was his plan again? Lead Azeroth's strongest warriors to Northrend so he can turn them? I think I'd have preferred an actual invasion by the Scourge that you have to fight off and then in the next expansion you actually go to Northrend to stop him.

>>724045527 (OP)
>>demons are actually aliens
Yes.

>>724059180
And Sylvanas is literally in super hell, but there she is, they really need to bring her back for very important story about Windrunners family.

>>724059463
>And it's not like Arthas somehow fights back and still have some good
That's literally the entire plot though? When push comes to shove he one shots the raid and starts to resurrect them but until then you can excuse his retardation as the final shred of his humanity keeping him from just swarming Azeroth beneath a tidal wave of corpses. There's no other way to excuse the expansion even happening without asking "why didn't get just send thousand of Scourge to wipe out the Alliance/Horde capitals one by one instead of giving them all the time to send armies to Northrend?"

>>724059797
Sylvanas isn't dead like Kael'thas. She's in the Maw willingly and can leave any time because the entire "Maw as Hell" thing stopped being relevant the moment Jailer died.

>>724045527 (OP)
>humans are actually aliens

>>724057979
The B means both. Look at the other classes. Shaman has H, Paladin has A, the rest all have B. It's very obvious it turned into the Rogue class

The whole "demons can't die unless you kill them in the twisting nether" thing always confused the shit out of me and it seems incredibly inconsistent anyway. Especially with how basically anything can become a demon if it eats enough fel energy or something.

>>724046994
>humans are descended from Vrykul
>doesn't really show at all except in Kul'tiras but they ruined that by Blizzard deciding they needed to quell demands for playable Vrykul and Ogres in one fell swoop and make the Kul'tirans obese
Would it really kill them to have one human nation of Conan RPers running around? Hell give Stromgarde that identity, Danath Trollfriend is already dressing up like an orc and they're just silver and red Stormwind otherwise

>>724059705
To be fair there was pre-event with plague and zombie apocalypse. Also his previous plan failed so hard that many death knights revolted against him.

>>724059261
>gender neutral dwarves
Is... is that a BEARD? on a WOMAN?! Save me Chris Metzen!!!!

>>724045527 (OP)
Nice subversion of the reality.

>>724047369
lmao, no
Warcraft isn't original at all

Best original fantasy vidya lore would go to Might and Magic anyways

>>724060202
Yeah but the pre-event was pretty underwhelming all things considered. I meant like an actual whole expansion of a Scourge invasion.

>>724059890
If you can visit the maw so easily than nothing really stopping you from talking with Kael'Thas. That's actually the main problem with all the shit that they did with Shadowlands' lore.

>>724060243
If Metzen saves you, who will be corrupted this time?

>>724059987
Isnt that gw lore or whatever

>>724046607
The Lich King was an orc since WC3, and has been around as a character since WC2

>>724059804
I remember there was a lot of quests about that and all of them ends with that there is no humanity left in Arthas.
>why didn't get just send thousand of Scourge to wipe out the Alliance/Horde capitals one by one instead of giving them all the time to send armies to Northrend?
Because he was retarded, he wanted to make an army of heroes again, after he failed already once.

>>724056243
Retarded tourist

>>724060493
Guild Wars's 'gods' are aliens who just found Kryta.

>>724060329
Recent previews from the 11.2.7 PTR has you visiting Sylvannas in the Maw and she makes an observation that the entirety of the Shadowlands is artificial. Most of us already knew that Shadowlands was fake and gay but it's nice that Blizzard has finally come to that conclusion as well.

>>724060641
And balthazar is my bitch
And I'm pretty sure Grenth is just perpetually taking naps
The lore is weird

>>724060641
Sorry. Tyria, not Kryta.

>>724045527 (OP)
>aliens are actually demons

The
>CORRUPTION
trope worked well in Warcraft 3 IMO. It was basically a proxy for letting your environment turn you into a shitty person, rather than maintaining your integrity. Grom was a foil to Arthas.
>World of Warcraft Vanilla
has zero villains that are "corrupted" (except maybe the emerald nightmare dragons).
>TBC you have Illidan and Kael'thas. Their "corruption" was set up in WC3 so not necessarily a new instance of the trope, until Kael resurrects and you kill him a second time LOL WTF???
>WotLK
Is remembered fondly because the one time the "corruption" trope happens it's done well in Ulduar. The god of madness had turned the other gods' creations mad.
>Cata
Deathwing is a living embodiment of the shittiness of the trope. "RAWR XD IM GONNA GET YOU GUYS!!!"... no fucking clue what his motivations are except... "he was corrupted"
>MoP
PURE KINO until the very end where Garrosh turns evil for no reason and then morphs into a big monster LOL WTF???
...
anyways, MoP was the last time WoW's writing was good. Cata was a shitstain. TBC was... rushed? Idk what happened there.
the original run till Cata was/is fondly remembered because it's actually good. miles better than WoD and after.

>>724060542
Arthas' remaining humanity is the subject of the whole Arthas' Heart questline and can only really be said to be completely destroyed when Tirion sticks Ashbringer through it. Up until then, which is late Icecrown, he's been acting with something approaching restraint.

>>724060893
>until the very end where Garrosh turns evil for no reason and then morphs into a big monster LOL WTF???
Did you miss the part (i.e. Pandaria's entire plot) where the continent was rife with old gods that corrupt people by amplifying their negative emotions?

>>724061106
yeah but this was kino.
it actually explained why the titans didn't just kill all the Old Gods (it wouldn't work and would just make Azeroth unlivable).
second, the Sha have a 1:1 correlation with mortal emotions (or at least, that's how it's supposed to work). it's not just purple juice that "corrupts" you (except Garrosh at the end lol wtf??)

>>724060930
>he's been acting with something approaching restraint.
It doesn't even seems like it at all, he showed off several times in various parts of Northrend, but everywhere he's just a walking clishe of fantasy dark lord, nothing really indicates it.

>>724060893
>Garrosh turns evil for no reason
He spends the entire expansion searching for evil artifacts to create supersoldiers so he can conquer the world while shitting on everyone in the Horde that isn't an orc.

>>724061247
>shows up
>gloats a bit
>doesn't singlehandedly slaughter dozens like he very easily could
>goes back to sit in his evil castle waiting for you to show up instead of proactively thwarting the invaders on his continent
Dunno how much more restraint you want from him, really

>>724061257
Yeah that's for no reason, basically.
The retardation started in Cata where Vol'jin fucking threatened to assassinate him to his face.
Garrosh starts as a believable character in Cata and then just spirals into nonsense by the end of MoP because the writers couldn't stomach having a faction war plot where one side ACTUALLY wins for real.

>>724061237
>forgets that the last Sha is Pride, where he abandons Gorehowl
>forgets that the artifact Garrosh has isn't even Sha, it's the last remnant of Y'shaarj himself
>woah le heccin no reasonaroonie!

>>724061431
t. hyperfixates on the Stonetalon questline (written by someone who wasn't working in line with the rest of the writers) instead of every other time Garrosh appears and acts like a warmongering dipshit

>>724046607
>The lich king is actually an orc
>Hold on, this actually happened?
Always has been.
>My life, for Ner'Zhul.

It will never fail to amaze me how garrosh started vs how he ended.

>>724061431
>The retardation started in Cata
In TBC he's a whiny little faggot sitting around a fire sniffling about how Daddy Grom was a monster, letting his people get systematically exterminated by ogres. He can't even bring himself to care when you personally ensure the Mag'har will live beyond the year by dealing with all his problems for him.

Then in WotLK he pretends he's hot shit, tries to take the Horde from Thrall and when his personal fortress is surrounded by Scourge he asks "uhmmm, why aren't we attacking the Alliance???". He was always a garbage character.

>>724060739
So it's not actually the afterlife? That makes sense considering we saw robot forms of all the Sneedolands rulers and Jaylor.

>>724061643
>written by someone who wasn't working in line with the rest of the writers
well if the rest of the writers were stupid enough to write Vol'jin threatening Garrosh with assassination to his face, then maybe those writers sucked.
Say what you will about Thrall, but he was still an Orc. He threw down with Garrosh in a Mak'gora without hesitation. If someone threatened to assassinate Thrall, do you not think Thrall would (send a group of adventurers in a quest) to kill them?

>>724046607
fuck off

>>724061835
I think he was just kind of average. The Maghar were recovering from all the guldan nonsense then he becomes whiny when the PCs show up and are actually the main characters not him.

I gave up on the lore when they introduced night elf mages

>>724062082
Eh, there's always been plenty around the world, no reason not to let players make one too

>>724061936
You know who else threw down with garrosh? Cairne. See where that got him.

>>724060739
>>724061925
The final zone of Shadowlands is literally the FORGE of AFTERLIVES where all the infinite afterlives are assembled

>>724045709
>>Elves are actually trolls
Heavily evolved because of some swirly magical pool in the middle of Azeroth's not!Pangea
>>Humans are actually degenerated vikings
Degenerate giant vikings
>>Dwarves are degenerated androids
Aren't they used to be actually stone golem-like before they became meaty?
>>The lich king is actually an orc
Yeah, that's something. Was since WarCraft III and was his own orcish character since WarCraft II.
>>724056385
For me the ending of the last TFT mission implied that the one at the end was neither Ner'zhul nor Arthas, but that both fused into a new being that is simply The Lich King. Free completely of Burning Legion control and as his own master.

If Blizzard were actually smart, then they could've gone with this concept and him being completely free...yet at the same time with some things that this Lich King would regain what Arthas and Ner'zhul lost. Stuff like conscience and guilt.
Remember that both were forced into doing nasty stuff and had their consciences effectively silenced (this is what Arthas mentions in the cinematic of the 1st Undead mission, but he also turned evil from Frostmourne and the Lich King driving him mad with his whispers).
Ner'zhul originally wasn't evil, but events caused the shaman to turn into a warlock and even more events caused him to become the Lich King...but not willingly.

But of course Blizzard would've screwed it over.

>>724047610
I fucking miss WHFB. And TOW isn't enough.

>>724046973
No need to sink Cyrodiil, just move it up North. The shape isn't too far off from Northrend.

>>724062482
You act like WoW has never retconned itself before.

>>724045527 (OP)
>>724045709
Zombies are a virus made by aliens to fuck shit up and soften the planet before the burning legion arrives

>>724047610
I remember reading somewhere that Warcraft and Starcraft were supposed to be Warhammer, but they couldn't come into an agreement with Games Workshop and changed things enough to seem like not-Warhammer.

>>724062637
the plague of undeath is a fungus whose spores were magically enchanted.

>>724062637
Why is the burning legion so weak and gay they can't just go in and beat the disparate forces of one (1) planet despite supposedly having conquered innumerable worlds?

>>724062738
Warcraft was but I never heard that about Starcraft. Apparently Blizzard couldn't afford the license for a Warhammer game so they just ripped it off. I wish they had kept the gritty aesthetic from the 90s and early 2000s.

>>724061106
>>724060893
I mean, Garrosh wasn't exactly a good guy building all this manabomb nukes, ruthlessly killing his own workers and dropping that manabomb on the island full of people. It was heavily implied in that Cata questline, that he is a baddy, buildup was there.
>>724060893
>no fucking clue what his motivations are except... "he was corrupted"
Well, yes, the wish to destroy everything and everybody had been instilled in his mind. Ever heard of psychos? Deathwing is the definition of one. Or is every character is supposed to be relatable and "morally gray with deep motivation and making you to question your own actions" in your opinion?

>>724061680
>MY WIFE FOR NER'ZHUL
What did he mean by this?

>>724062827
Because Azeroth isnt actually a planet :^)

>>724062590
The Shadowlands being artificial isn't new though.

The final revelation of Shadowlands is that all the cornerstones of the cosmology chart are artificial. Life, Death, Light, Shadow, Order, Disorder were all created by the First Ones and each realm has its own super special realm where the Biggest Guys of each faction was churned out by machines.

>>724062852
gotta get dat big orc cock

>>724048397
40k?

>Magic is so rampant random statues and decorations come to life
>Russia is being led by the ghost of Queen Catherine
>Genies are trying to buy Wyoming

I dunno what Valves writers are on, but I appreciate the gumption

>>724062925
I think in one of the HH books in the Imperium's first encounter with Chaos they mistake daemons for xenos but it's never brought up again.

>>724045527 (OP)
Based

>>724047035
damn she got booty

>>724062842
>I wish they had kept the gritty aesthetic from the 90s and early 2000s
Warcraft 2 and 3 concept arts are some of the best things to come out of the entire franchise

>>724062902
Danuser's Magic Hexagon is a load of bullshit.
If Titan's are supposed to the absolute paragon's Order and Arcane then why do they hold enough sway in Nature to create the Emerald Dream and multiple pantheons Nature gods? What about Tyr and Odyn's to the Light? Speaking of the Light, why does the Magic Hexagon say that the Void/Shadow is its natural opposite when it is also effective against Death?

>>724063373
Hexagon is a hypercube and in a hypercube everything exists inside itself and other shit etc.
Maybe the writers drank some Kool-Aid of Eastern Esoteric traditions without delving deep enough into it to make their writing make sense.

>LOLz, this world of primitive feudal societies (but with functional magic and mythological monsters) is actually set in a post-apocalyptic future!
Remember when almost every single CRPG dev from around the mid-80's to early-90's literally did just that and genuinely thought they're being clever?

>Medieval Dragons were actually real.
>They were dinosaurs that survived the extinction.
>mfw

>>724063824
I wonder how old that trope is, even decades old fantasy books use it for their world-building.
Maybe it's just an universal thing that humans have always pondered, thinking about what came before them

>>724063373
Probably because the Titans are the only ones actively meddling in reality to fulfil their own agenda. The Burning Legion isn't even driven by a real agent of Disorder, it's a Titan that went crazy and his Fel-infused slave races.

>>724063824
i for one, love this twist, might and magic chads stay winning

>>724063976
Because it's part of humanity's psyche. There are more and more clues piling up that suggest humanity is much older than we think and there were more advanced civilizations that were around even before the last ice age. Civilizations rise and fall like the change of seasons and what was lost is hard to be rediscovered because time grinds down everything that isn't literally set in stone.

>>724064342
>>724063976

>>724057683
I think there is a...degree.... of difference. Fantasy isn't adverse to other worlds/plains/dimensions from which invasions and things can happen.
The problem is the nature of how it has been represented since TBC is unmistakably part science fiction.
>seperate worlds accessible through powerful magic via gates and doors
vs
>planets in space where people fly ships back and forth oh and the evil demon army isn't so much magical as highly technological
The burning legion went from something like the burning hells of diablo to chaos from 40k.

>>724064342
what clues?

>>724064632
Just one example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Sands_footprints
>In 2021 they were radiocarbon dated, based on seeds found in the sediment layers, to between 21,000 and 23,000 years ago.

If you are interested in this there is plenty you can find for yourself if you bothered to search.

>>724064342
>humanity is much older than we think
>>724064902
>21 thousand years
Fucking lol. We already think humans are 300 thousand years old.

>>724062492
They could still retcon everything after Wrath by saying
"Woops everything was an hallucination while you were dead during the Lich King encounter!"

>>724065041
The only thing I have seen is that weird guy who talks about the lesser dryas impact 13000 years ago that supposedly caused the sea level to rise 400 feet which wiped out a lot of places

>>724061936
You missed the bit where trolls are cunning shits that think literal backstabs and cannibalism are cool?
Trolls are
>fuck yeah ambush
Not
>honor duel

>>724064583
>Tempest Keep is a magical flying crystal fortress
>Tempest Keep and other Naaru constructs canonically travel between worlds by teleporting
>twice in canon teleporting directly to another world has resulted in them falling out of the sky (draenei arriving on draenor, draenei arriving on azeroth)
>everyone memes it as spaceships
>Now the Burning Legion actually does have spaceships
The players got what they always wanted

>>724046607
How did you not know the Lich King was Ner'zhul? Whose voice did you think was speaking to Arthas through that helmet?

>>724062341
Garrosh half dead and only saved by Grimtotem decpetion.

draenei are just space tieflings

>>724065714
Actually, Tieflings were specifically turned into hooveless draenei.

>>724052518
That was another orc

>>724060893
>>WotLK
>Is remembered fondly because the one time the "corruption" trope happens it's done well in Ulduar. The god of madness had turned the other gods' creations mad
yeah the Ulduar lore was pretty cool, probably the last time the Titans and Old God shit really landed. but sadly, the Lich King story, aka the main point of the expac, was handled pretty poorly. the Lich King himself was turned into a Saturday morning cartoon villain, Nerzul's presence was erased, Arthas had no interactions with characters like Jaina or Sylvanas, Anub'arak was done dirty. at times with Wrath it felt like they really just wanted to make an expansion about the Titans and Old Gods, but knew that the Lich King was overdue and would sell copies so they tacked it on without really knowing what to do with him.

TBC's writing was decent as far as WoW goes, it gets overcriticized sometimes. the Draenei retcon was silly but they made the Draenei likeable enough that it didn't really matter in the long run. paranoid schizo Illidan hiding in a fortress and building up an army to protect himself from his master Kil'jaeden that he betrayed is a way better character than Legion's mary sue "all according to keikaku, I'm actually 5 steps ahead of everyone" Illidan, sorry, I'll die on that Hill. maybe Kael'thas was a bit wasted but meh.

Cata's world revamp did a lot of damage to the worldbuilding in Azeroth and the Deathwing/Thrall shit was stupid, but the faction war plot line that ran through Cata and MoP was actually pretty solid. I agree that's probably the last time WoW had any semblance of decent writing. WoD and beyond is just a mess. including Legion, which people only give a pass to because it had le hype aura farming moments.

blizzard is capable of writing one story which is corruption, often by race mixing, so sargeras was corrupted by the eredar or void or whatever and then he corrupted some more planets and made the burning legion

>>724063824
Anon it's from very early DnD, which itself is from Heroic Fantasy.

You would never see an alien in Tolkien's work, but in Sword & Sorcery/Heroic Fantasy your cyclopean ruins full of demons have a 50/50 chance of being a crashed spaceship full of aliens

In fact it's very weird how puritans fantasyfags can be nowadays

>>724061396
Because he seems more dumb than restraint, you know - how literally every cliche evil villain that could easily kill MC but decided that it's better to leave it for his henchmen.

>>724045527 (OP)
What did they eat on the Succubus planet (before Legion assimilated them)?

>>724062902
all that shit is being retconned, current WoW lore just hand waves all of that way saying that's just what the people in shadowlands think the creation story is. Lmao.

>upload image
>duplicate detected
>>724059795
Incredibly based and Vallee pilled

Ner'zhul/Lich King is just an early clunky Warhammer ripoff (Azhag and Nagash's crown) and it's good they eventually wrote him out.

>>724047919
>Maybe she can be a decent character again
anon she hasn't been a decent character since TBC

>>724065714
Draenei aren't half-demonic theater kids. They're holy aligned aliens.

>>724065204
>"Woops everything was an hallucination while you were dead during the Lich King encounter!"
The only way to retcon it is via a hard retcon.
And by that, I mean making WarCraft IV and retconning WoW.
But that will never happen because:
a) Nu-Blizz
b) ActiVision
c) MS
d) Blizz's writing is far worse than ever
e) They lost the capabilities to make an RTS
Not to mention they don't want to get rid of their cash cow.

>>724066543
same shit though, a race that’s sometimes angels and sometimes demons

>>724066398
Nope, sorry. Dragonflight already had a book confirming the Titans are from Zereth Ordus and they've been propagandizing Azerothian history to downplay any good the Black Empire did.

The next expansion is going to have a big focus on Void and how it's not just mindless hungry entities, Old Gods and the Void Lords. Xal'atath is already confirmed to be a Domanaar. It's doubling down on its ridiculous cosmology even harder that before.

I seem to have set off a fireball
playing div 1 rn it doesn't hold a candle too two

>>724066358
male semen

>>724056290
Legion is kino

>>724056704
No retcon is a good retcon, but the result of the retcon was a cool race that I enjoy and if I was ever put in charge of a Warcraft reboot I would keep that as the official lore instead of returning it to the old lore.

>>724062852
>What did he mean by this?
Well it's cult member

>>724066358
>>724067342
Their males and probably their semen too in weird consumption rituals(because all women are inherently evil and prone to doing spirit cooking type shit when left to their own devices).
It's what lured the Legion to their planet.

>>724048397
Babylon 5, well B5 story (and spin offs) are like fantasy stories as sci fi stories but it is sci fi, but very quickly it was revealed that souls are real thing in universe

>>724067957
While I am a general Draenei enjoyer I really feel like the Broken would've been a better pick.
>visually ugly but spiritual and noble, contrasting the pretty but vain and greedy Blood Elves
>gives the Alliance a "monster" race to offset their generic fantasy races
>more established in the Warcraft setting rather than being a literal alien asspull
I also think Blood Elves were a mistake to add to the Horde, and that it makes almost no sense for them to side against Kael in BC, but that's besides the point.

>>724065998
I think deathwing shit should've been separate from the old god shit, sure he was driven insane by them, but he always had his own plans for the world that didn't mesh with all the tentacles and cultists. The end times dungeon where deathwing had won and impaled himself on wyrmrest temple is still the best part of that whole expansion nonetheless.

>>724065998
>TBC's writing was decent as far as WoW goes, it gets overcriticized sometimes. the Draenei retcon was silly but they made the Draenei likeable enough that it didn't really matter in the long run. paranoid schizo Illidan hiding in a fortress and building up an army to protect himself from his master Kil'jaeden that he betrayed is a way better character than Legion's mary sue "all according to keikaku, I'm actually 5 steps ahead of everyone" Illidan, sorry, I'll die on that Hill. maybe Kael'thas was a bit wasted but meh.
While I can acknowledge that some of Illidan's actions within the expansion make sense (building a demon hunter army), a large portion of the actions by the WC3 crew in BC make no sense whatsoever.
>Illidan re-opens the Dark Portal because of ???
>The Blood Elves rebel against Kael because of ???
>Vashj wants to consume the waters of Outland because of ???
They were never heroes, but it felt weird turning Kael/Vashj/Illidan into cartoon villains just for the sake of making them raid bosses.

>>724047170
>Flesh being a cursed unnatural state
Nigger every single native creature of Azeroth is made of blood and bones
The alien/non-natural freaks are the Titans and their children

>>724068829
Honestly blood elves, broken and Naga would've made a decent third faction if they'd gone that route. Maybe satyr or something as the fourth race.

>>724065204
WC3 literally retconned most of the lore from WC2
WoW literally retconned and raped most of the things from WC3
TBC defiled WC3 and WC2's lore
Wrath and Legion raped TBC's lore

>>724069095
Lord Kazzak opened the Dark Portal
Because he joined the Burning Legion
To control one of the most important resources on what's left of the planet

>>724047369
>he thinks WC3 and worse yet WoW is "Warcraft lore"
Sad.

>>724070097
>he thinks anyone is gonna believe his WC2 fanboy act

>>724070097
>50 year old man posting on /v/ about the 30 year old rts

>>724062842
The unfortunate realty of games adapting to the changing market is they lose what made them great. It's not exclusive to Warcraft. I even thought WoW was more "anime" than Warcraft 3, none of the humans had enormous chins and the tauren and orcs had pupils.

>>724070379
I couldn't tell what the pic is and clicked because of the text.

>>724065321
>Trolls are
>>fuck yeah ambush
>Not
>>honor duel
As a subtlety rogue main in classic I side with the trolls on this one. Ambush and backstab are the way to go in life.

>>724066171
At their core they are biblical stories that got expanded upon to the point of turning demons into some alien shit. Sargeras/Morgoth/Satan have the same roots as characters. Only difference is the 1 preceeded the other 2. If someone were to take over the reins of Tolkien's work they would undoubtetly introduce aliens in some capacity.

>>724071695
>Sargeras/Satan have the same roots as characters
Only in the most superficial "fallen divinity" way.

>>724047002
>>724046607
>robot robot robot robot
they're golems
>BUT GOLEMS ARE JUST LITERAL ROBOTS MADE OF ROCKS AND DIRT
they're GOLEMS!

also none of this matters because the basis of life on warcraft works by giving whatever a soul first, it isn't restricted to meat bags only. The "curse of flesh" is a nothingburger

>>724047349
my man a fucking space demon squid (who did not tentacle rape the women nor the men because it's just that much of a simp beta) literally swam by 0,7 minutes after their elven empire fell underwater and proposed them cool water powers in exchange of serving him and probably not drowning instantly. This isn't evolution.
Nothing in Warcraft actually is evolution, people transforms more often than in Pokemon.

>>724045709
*is

>>724055072
>the Void Lords who havent been seen once
we did kill one in the Netherstorm, I think that one got retconned into being a major antagonist because wow needed a Galactus to cash in on the non existent movie hype or something.
Also M'uru.

Void lords and Old Gods being related is still super stupid, it's like if you retconned the Zerg into being controlled by some evil space overlord way past cementing the Zerg ruling caste with the overmind and the cerebrates for no fucking reason.

shit.

>>724055072
I was going to say at least everything in wow relating to the old gods is cool but of course they just work for the void lords now.

>half the villains in wow were just working for the void lords the whole time
Is that their power? Is the Tulsa King a void lord?

>>724074683
It'll be retconned so they'll work for the next villain. Shadowlands was such peak retardation that it should be preserved as a measure of how bad retcons could be.

>>724059705
Yeah it was to bring only Azeroths most powerful heroes to the place he was the most powerful and in control and turning them to become his ultimate soldiers. Which would have worked except for The Light bullshit which should not have worked at the Frozen Throne but did anyways.

>>724045709
It was good until WoTLK

>>724074862
Shadowlands is probably the only expansion that made me legitimately hate Warcraft. Warcraft was always retarded, but it wasn't completely irredeemable. Shadowlands destroyed any credibility it had left and there wasn't really any already. Legion tricked me into thinking they would at least keep it entertaining.

>>724062492
what if le race was le corrupted!

>>724077092
for me it was the bfa-sl-df trilogy of obnoxious feminism

>>724077249
It's really funny how none of the female antagonists died or were actually punished.

THANK them for being in the spotlight NOW

>>724047278
Who was stronger? Ner'Zul or Gul'Dan?

>>724045527 (OP)
>demons are actually aliens
So, like in real life?

>>724077907
Ner'Zul
he ripped Draenor apart.
Guldan jobbed to regular demons in the tomb

>>724045874
>Druid not even on the list
Damn..

>>724047483
Yeah

>>724047610
You're mixing up the blizzard rts'.
Starcraft was going to be 40k (Blizzard went to Nottingham and got to see proto-nids) but fell through. Warcraft was originally just edgy Hell vs Christianity since they were all metalhead nerds.

>>724045527 (OP)
Everyone knew the twisting nether was a different plane and that Sargeras was a titan for years though

So uuh
Why weren't Shadow Hunters ever made a class or a spec

>>724046607
Ner'zhul is the Warlock that is inside the Lich King's crown and exerting his influence. Orc Warlocks created and became the original death knights and they were far stronger than Arthas' death knights.

>>724074683
>tulsa king
>abandoned filming in tulsa because it was too hot

>>724056158
>Is there anyone in warcraft who's had a worse afterlife than nerzhul?
Garrosh saves him in WoD only for him to be a fucking dungeon boss
Anub'arak'd

>>724077907
AU Gul'dan > MT Ner'zhul > MT Gul'dan > AU Ner'Zhul
They made it canon that the Legion is the same across all timelines so knowing Ner'Zhul failed in the main timeline made Sargeras super charge alternate Gul'dan. Leaving Ner'zhul a 5 man instance boss.

>>724046272
>bro thinks hes gonna build a space elevator
>unfortunately, hes stuck shitposting in an anime forum

such is life

The franchise is so sanitized and razed by the modern DND world building guidelines I don't even know what the appeal to it is anymore. There's not even any blood.

>>724079401
Does having ' in the middle of your name increase the chases of being evil?

>>724079129
they were rolled into hunters and shamans
generally, WoW had way too standardized classes to allow for them to be their own thing

>>724079959
It makes you more likely to be a non-human, so yes in a way it does

Which has the better lore/setting between Warcraft and The Elder Scrolls?

>>724080275
Come on anon, rab'bits and zeb'ras are not evil, they just are.

>>724077907
Alternate Gul'dan is stronger
>>724078361
To be fair, that was due to the staff of sargeras

Do they do it

>>724056619
Night Elves joining the Alliance was fucking retarded

>>724080332
Elder Scrolls probably because the only thing ruining their older lore is ESO which no one takes seriously while Warcrafts lore has been raped by WoW so badly that the real games lore might as well not exist.

>>724076379
He tried that shit with rising death knights and trying to defeat army of paladins in plague lands, but get fucked by the ashbringer. Surely when all armies gathered together and storming his citadel it doesn't matter, all were according to his perfect masterplan.

>>724067957
>but the result of the retcon was a cool race
>Everyone and everything looks like gay Taric from LoL
>Speak with an indian accent
>Worship fucking windchimes that do nothing but are actually the light teehe
No

>>724077526
We actually got new female antagonist to replace Sylvanas.

>>724077840
I love the forsaken. Whenever I make a character on some private server, it's always an undead unless I'm interested in another class
But Garrosh will always be MY warchief

>Burning Legion has faster-than-light space ships and space station satellite installations
>control or destroyed multiple planets in the universe
>have the assimilated races of places they've corrupted or conquered including giant mechs
>to top it off they have magic, can shapeshift, subvert nations through treachery and read minds
>still lose not once, not even twice but THREE times to some backwater, bumfuck planet in the universe
How? Why?

>>724079015
No, Warcraft was 110% supposed to be Warhammer Fantasy.
>The orcs are green
>They ride "Wyverns" (they changed the models into Manticores for some retarded reason?)
>Fel is a 1 to 1 copy of Chaos but it's green
>The undead are HEAVILY Egyptian inspired, like the Tomb Kings
>There's a bunch of reptilian people who used to be the most powerful empire sitting in Aztec style ruins in every jungle everywhere, totally not a Lizardmen rip off
They're just the most glaringly obvious ones off the top of my head.

>>724081714
They can't come to azeroth reality without insane rituals like archimonde in wc3, so they need proxies like the orcs and the scourge to do their part, but they jobbed, lmao

>>724081714
It's implied throughout that Azeroth, the world soul entity, is directly or indirectly empowering the hero character and important characters to defend the planet.

>>724077092
>arthas becomes 50 anima
sovl....

>>724081714
Too many shit is going on there, their agents doesn't really like working on burning legion and trying to fuck them up on daily basis.

>>724081750
Nice one retard, literally only your first point has anything to do with WC1. If we expand to include WC2 when they actually did more than write a three sentence blurb for lore, we see you're still wrong and retarded.
In WC3 long after the series had existed so couldn't possibly have been intended to be warhammer, we have your complaints. Except your lizardman point which is retarded as Naga have almost nothing in common with Lizardmen, since trolls fill the role of mayincatec on dinosaurs.

>>724081714
indomitable will of the human spirit

>>724081714
Cause the Legion doesn't have FTL space ships. They always need portal magic to get anywhere, as can be seen in every game they appear in.

>>724045527 (OP)
I dislike these kinds of tropes, the whole "realistic rationalisation" of fantasy, being consistent with its own lore is enough, it doesn't need to be like sci-fi. Demons are just demons, I guess you could say they came from "somewhere else", but that's not the same.

>>724081358
>Speak with an indian accent
slavic accent, goober

>>724082310
Trolls you absolute mouth-breathing fucking cockmongler, I was talking about Trolls not Naga.
Holy fucking shit, did your handler get tired from your constant, increscent retardation and off themselves?
You literally CANNOT deny Blizzard "creatively used" all of the shit I mentioned, fucking Kel'Thuzad is a Temu Arkhan the Black.
Kill yourself.

Love,

Anon.

>>724056704
Draenei retcon is the single most insignificant retcon anyone ever bitches about. Oh no some swamp gremlins are technically the same species as the big demon lords! that's fucking it.

>>724082628
Agreed, naga, satyrs, night elves and blood elves can all be close, but some draenei got fucked by bioweapons and changed, it's kind of a normal occurrence in that setting

>>724061257
>He spends the entire expansion searching for evil artifacts to create supersoldiers so he can conquer the world while shitting on everyone in the Horde that isn't an orc.
But he has multiple lines in Cata where he threatens to kill or actually kills people who even imply doing things like that

>>724081714
it's simple
>first invasion fucked up a civilization, turned night elves into a small group of tree huggers whilst the rest hid, turned into naga/satyrs or died, only lost because of the well of eternity being sacrificed, shattering entire continents in the process
>second invasion was barely an invasion, the scourge betrayed the burning legion and the legion bet everything on the giga nigga archimonde. even then, empires like lordaeron fell, high elves got massacred and a world tree fell.
>third invasion had the strongest beings in azeroth all search for the strongest weapons across the universe to deal with them, planet still got stabbed

>>724082628
It's not even a retcon. To be considered a retcon it has to be incompatible with the information that was presented before it, which it isn't.

>>724082571
>reptilian
>trolls
Okay retard. Also nice goalpost moving, that completely dodges how warcraft was not "110% supposed to be warhammer" since it's only in the third game more than orc green for similarities show up. I know whfb guys have to have the victim complex to justify their game dying, but being a retard in a public forum isn't helping your case.

>>724065596
>>724062341
>>724061936
Bro-hoof was one of the gayest parts of the story holy shit
I don't know which part I'm more about, the whole niggertotem getting away scot free with cheats or the gay ass Deviantart questline where Thrall seethes at Garrosh specifically and ignores the stupid Grimtotem part only to fucking cheat himself

>>724081714
Because it's a kino trope and one of the things the setting actually did quite well

>>724045527 (OP)
>what you get from combining Warhammer Dwarfs with the Burning Legion

>>724074059
Don't forget that we kill one in WoD in a random ass questline where they reveal Void Lords are actually the stupid windchimes

>>724083253
You really are a retard
Trolls are obviously fairly reptilian in appearance, tusks, they're fucking BLUE, kinship with dionosaurs...They're obviously a standin for Lizardmen who also happen to be blue and have a kinship with dinosaurs.

And I'm not moving the goalposts, Blizzard visited GW's HQ in Nottingham, they wanted to do RTS for Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40k.
Hardly fucking rocketscience.
>Uhh but trolls have tits!
Yeah, well so do Argonians who gives a fuck, they're stand ins, not one to one rip offs like the Orcs and Liches.

>>724078361
Yeah I always got the impression that Gul'Dan was a weak little schemer so it was weird seeing him as a giga warlock in wod/legion

>>724082310
I'm pretty sure it's an open fact that wc1 was, at its earliest conception, a warhammer RTS. This was back when GW was extra weird about licensing the rights and didn't play ball.
Only WC1 was conceived as such. Warhammer is deep down in the marrow of warcraft's bones.

>>724083365
Wait what? You mean void lords are void na'aru?

Well I'm sure that's being rescanned anyway.

>>724083769
Retconned* yes I'm phoneposting from my comfy bed instead of using my desktop seethe about it

>>724060930
Arthas' heart questline was stupid from the beginning. First level of WC3 Undead campaign already makes it clear that Arthas doesn't have any good in him left. He straight up says that he feels no remorse or pity for fucking over everyone and everything he's ever loved. When told it's because Frostmourne took his soul, he basically just shrugs and says he'll make do without one. The heart questline was bad writing on a character level, even though it was a good questline on its own

>>724083769
It's not exactly clear where Na'aru sit on the tier list of cosmic powers. They're quite clearly nowhere near as powerful as an Old God and not even in the same planet as a Void Lord, so is there a Light equivalent to Old Gods and void lords and the Na'aru are just the equivalent of C'thraxxi?

Also, it's interesting it's being implied that the Old Gods have turned on the Void and may actually be aligned with Azeroth, in a weird way.

>>724083557
You're reaching pretty hard there. When trolls were introduced in Warcraft 2, they were green and had nothing to do with dinosaurs. You're influenced by what trolls are in WoW, when they got raptor mounts.

>>724084034
Okay, trolls might be dubious but they've clearly shifted more towards LM substitute in modern WoW, ESPECIALLY Zandalari.
That being said, the Orcs and Undead and Legion are all pretty undeniably lifted from Warhammer.

>>724083557
>trolls are blue
originally green.
>kinship with dinosaurs
not until wow, along with the aztec elements, otherwise trolls have been Caribbean inspired being walking Jamaican stereotypes in wc3.
>went to nottingham
A point I brought up already in relation to Starcraft, though outside of the silhouette of Terran Marines everything Starcraft does is unlike the 40k of the time, (Tyranids were 4 armed purple people still, not space bugs). But that was well after Blizzard had become a successful studio for its other games including Warcraft.
>tits
literally no one brought up lizard tits until you just did.

>>724083969
I guess it's an abandoned plotline, in tbc you see 3 void naaru, 1 in oshu'gun or whatever is called in nagrand, 1 in sunwell and 1 in the caverns of times that is turned into the void crystal that mograine & friends purify with the light which then turns into the base material they use to craft the ashbringer.
Not that it matters, blizz lore has been shit since wotlk and they have no clue of what they are doing.

>>724083684
An "open fact" with literally zero evidence besides orcs being green retards. Orcs in WC1 literally came from hell, to fight Knights coming out of Cross emblazoned castles. You're trying to die on a hill that hasn't formed yet.

>>724077840
garrosh is a dumbass but everyone around him were retarded traitors except lorthemar weirdly

>>724081714
The true might of the burning legion is waste, but they also have no way to move that. And the low and mid tier isn't that impressive.
WC3 is centered around them gating in archimonde, and once archimonde arrives he treated as a walking natural disaster for the entire game.

>>724083669
He pretty much was originally. Ogrim handed his ass to him.

>>724085891
To be fair, Archimonde is, in roughly 90 seconds he destroys a city by playing in the sand. Which is wildly out of scale with everything we see in warcraft prior to Cataclysm. Caveat: The Sundering, Draenor's destruction, and Illidan's attack on Icecrown all involved the power of Sargeras.

>>724085675
>lorthemar
Because this guy is barely even existing.

>>724086346
It tows the line very well.
Neither Mannoroth or Ner'Zul is that impressive. While Kil'jaeden and Archimonde i s genuinely that impressive.

>>724085675
>except the guy who was literally in talks to return his people to the alliance and abandon the horde
lol
lmao

>>724086346
That is kinda weird, this guy effortlessly destroys one of the most powerful cities on the continent in less than two minutes but the Burning Legion still needs a bunch of meme schemes like The Scourge and legions of felhunters, succubi and doom guards to actually conquer the world, but I guess it's kind of like how you can't conquer a nation with an aircraft carrier, you need boots on the ground.

>>724045527 (OP)
DESU warcraft lore offically died when that retard danuser got a hold of it and then they put out that retarded cosmology chart. That was the dead end of it all.

>>724087156
I don't even know what was the objective of the legion, don't think they ever say it, I know in the first war it was to take over the well of eternity but with that gone what do they even want?

>>724087295
The world tree.

>>724046607
Lich King fans continue to prove they don't play Warcraft 3

>>724077096
This is something I simply can't stop hating on.
This is the single overused element by Blizzard since...seriously when did they start overuse this? Wasn't it back during WoW's earliest days?

>>724088298
WC3 was the start of it.
>arthas is corrupted
>the orcs were corrupted the whole time.and a bunch of them get double corrupted
>sargeras is a corrupted titan
>illidan gets physically corrupted
>naga are corrupted night elves

>>724087156
The scourge summoned Archimonde, and even during their preparations they've made a little bit of genocide of Lorderon and Quel'Thalas. Of course seeing how big green guy easily destroyed the city is kinda impressive but their pawns did a pretty impressive job even before that.

>>724088298
Nah single worst is their retarded "wait and see" story mechanic
I get really fucking tired of the big bad using the big secret weapon/plan that we have no fucking idea what it does and they dont tell us about it for like 90% of the expantion and expect their players to continue to give a shit about it for that long.

There is a very good reason as to why gallywix is the best bad guy in TWW, becuase we knew from the get go what he was about. He just wanted money and power, ok cool i can get behind taht.

>>724088727
>sargeras is a corrupted titan
Not a WC3 thing
>Naga
I don't think they were revealed to be elves in 3

>>724087156
Archimonde is quite literally the strongest demon, the only one in the legion stronger than him is Sargeras himself.

>>724088951
I always thought Kil'Jaeden was

What the fuck even is fell

>>724089058
Kil'jaeden is the schemer and Archimonde is the brawns.

>>724089074
Chaotic energy. It's just disorder made manifest, it reverses entropy, adds energy to the system so it's extremely reactive and destructive.

>>724045527 (OP)
>eredar leaders dead
>nathrezim faggots peaced out
>home base wrecked
>leader stuck in gay baby jail
>still have domain over the twisting nether
we get the "there must always be a lich king" asspull straight out of metzen's tongue all the way through his ass but radio silence to the most massive and dangerous army of fucking DEMONS in the setting being thrown into disarray because their commanding head knocked out?
You're telling me that they're friends now because we beat their leader despite every single fucking commanding officer being younger than demons, even the stupid gas giant nigger boss?

>>724089074
chaos, it's made from demonic energies and fueled by life energy

>>724089205
Metzen was leaving the company at the time and the head writer wanted to pivot fully onto death before he got fired mid BFA.
They had no plans for the Legion after burning through them during Legion, because the plan was to just replace them with death

>>724089205
it's been mentioned that demons are now essentially waging war on one another to take control over the burning legion, and the pillar of creations are still being used to seal the tomb of sargeras

>>724087156
Cause you still need people to conquer troops, kill opposition etc. Archimonde and KJ regardless of throwaway raid bosses are also the Legions top guys.

>>724089441
> and the pillar of creations are still being used to seal the tomb of sargeras
Doubtful given one of the Pillars was literally stolen during BFA without anyone noticing.

>>724089519
it was put back after it was stolen
but now with no dalaran i guess anyone can steal them

>>724087156
let's be honest, the dalaran nuke was just a flex spell. takes too long to cast. if he did that in front of any experienced night elf he'd be a pincushion long before he built the first sand tree.

Hearthstone's had better and more fun Warcraft lore than anything WoW's pumped out since MoP.

>>724089718
>implying night elves can do anything against archimonde that isn't suicide bombing hundreds of their ancestors' spirits

>>724045709
they are going to ruin this area forever (they already did by adding female and black guards

>>724087081
>Didn't go neutral despite Jaina Cuntmoore throwing a shitfit in Dalaran
why the fuck are the elves still on the horde anyways?

The weirdest and shittiest thing about WoW is youll get one high stakes expansion and then later in between the next its:
>we need to explore this land of pandas
>we need to explore another timeline
>we need to explore this land of dragons
>were gonna wage war on each other again in spite of a global apocalypse nearly wiping us all out
>were going to explore the gay as fuck afterlife

>>724056158
Arthas doesn't even get sent to hell he just gets sent to a black void for eternity

>>724087156
The underlying problem is that more powerful demons need more powerful magic to be summoned, and assholes like Kiljaeden and Archimonde are both so fuck-off powerful that they basically can't be summoned anywhere under normal means.

Like the burning legion HAS to do all the meme schemes just to get them onto a world, but once they're actually there they absolutely could one-man-army an entire planet, which is basically what Archimonde was doing in WC3 until he was only barely stopped by the combined efforts of basically every most powerful mortal on Azeroth combined.

>>724089925
the last one was dumb but it was high stakes considering the portal to death was open and people were being snatched left and right

>>724089925
>were gonna wage war on each other again in spite of a global apocalypse nearly wiping us all out
this shit was dumb during vanilla wow. W1 and W2 were horde vs alliance, but by the time W3 happens the human kingdoms aren't really "alliance" anymore and the "horde" is just thrall's hippies and green pitbulls. and they even ally MULTIPLE FUCKING TIMES because the entire H vs A hinges on outdated shit from 20 years ago in the setting. And then comes WoW and suddenly we're back in Warcraft 1 hostility because ______________________________________
And then alliance and horde teams up and disbands a dozen or so times because ______________________________________________________

>>724045527 (OP)
>Super natural occurrences are actually aliens.
One of my favourite tropes no matter how much it is overused

>>724089074
fell is when your grandma breaks her hip when going down the stairs
fel is that green fire the burning legion likes to shoot coz they are too cool for normal fire

>>724090172
>the human kingdoms aren't really "alliance" anymore
There's literally more non humans than humans in the "human" playable race in wc3

>>724089205
shoutouts to simpleflips

>>724090013
>Gul'dan dies twice and is just dead lmao
>Useful Idiot Arthas gets sent to super hell because he turned into a tyrant
>Meanwhile Azshara is sipping tea with Tyrande by now
Shadowlands wasn't bad, it was toxic waste.

>>724090024
When you put it like that I guess it makes sense.
The whole Undead campaign is more or less just preparing to summon KJ, then he destroyed Dalaran, they sweep most of the content and brutalize Kalimdor until the wisps kamikaze him.

>>724056158
>Try to escape exploding planet
>Get turned into a suit of Armor that controls the dead
>Somehow job to a whiney cuck Prince in a mental warfare battle cause Blizz are hacks
>Spend multiple years being bullied by said prince
>Prince finally dies and you are "free"
>Sike, you're going to super hell to be tortured for your failures again by another evil god entity that's also working with the Dreadlords that tortured you last time.
>Murder hobos finally show up while you're nothing but a rambling mad shell and kill you in super hell, resulting in you ceasing to exist.
>Depending on what's still canon, between the you going to super hell and the murder-hobos showing up to kill you, the soul of your alternate universe self who fell to the Void and was put down by the same murder-hobos who put down your Prince and will soon put down you, crossed the timelines to merge with your soul in super-hell.

Never has a character been treated poorer by the writers

>>724046994
It's kind of weird that the orcs are like that, since they are shortest lived race of the selection. I would think being born from a magical construct created by the gods themselves would have made given them more magical genetics.

>>724088727
>>arthas is corrupted
More like turned undead. That's a difference.
>>the orcs were corrupted the whole time.and a bunch of them get double corrupted
Fair enough. The double corrupted into Chaos Orcs was however pretty bizarre.
>>sargeras is a corrupted titan
Not in WCIII hell no.
>>illidan gets physically corrupted
OK, that's a good point.
>>naga are corrupted night elves
More like transformed.
>>724088847
Dude. Literally 3rd TFT Night Elf mission where you go into the Tomb of Sargeras and Lady Vashj tells Maiev about the Naga race being former Night Elves.

>>724088770
Yeah. This is getting tiresome too.
>He just wanted money and power, ok cool i can get behind that.
We need not only more bad guys like this, but more bad guys that are just evil dicks/bitches too.

>>724090013
>>724090346
Shadowlands implies he was sent to the maw because of the jailer shit, not that he'd actually go there normally.
He'd probably be sent to the same place as Garrosh

Was WoD the first time Shadowlands was even mentioned

>>724045709
>elves are actually trolls
What? No way.

>>724090519
It's had off handed mentions of a vague shadowlands in vanilla and Wrath.
The modern interpretation of what Shadowlands ultimately became didn't exist until the WoD/Legion/Chronicles era when they were sorting out their cosmology but the name's been around forever.

>>724090519
I believe the Shadowlands were always there as background fluff lore since vanilla wow.
Basically the warcraft version of the shadow plane / afterlife purgatory or whatever before the massive retcon spam.

>>724090610
Anon, we knew this since WC3.
NEs are mutated trolls who came into contact with mana wells, HEs are NEs that mutated further to stop being so nocturnal, and BEs are mutated HEs that really liked sucking on the demon energy.

>>724090453
>We need not only more bad guys like this, but more bad guys that are just evil dicks/bitches too.
IDK what it is but blizzard is trying really hard to do this "Subvert your expecation" bullshit and make morally gray bad guys.
Fuck that if you look at Blizzard BEST bad guys they ever made they are always just the biggest assholes
Sargaras
Litch King
Gallywix
Guldan
Onyxia
Deathwing
Just stop trying to write deep characters you dont need to do it.

>>724047002
>and about half the races are some form of cursed robot.
That's fucking retarded. It was cool when it was just human / dwarf/ gnome.

>>724090797
Yeah. Though in the Lich King's case, he was being under the heel of Kil'Jaden/Burning Legion.

>>724090172
Really the concept of Alliance vs Horde had runs its course in WC3 realistically and the only reason it persisted at all was because of Kul Tiras in the WC3 bonus campaign. With most of the Orcs gone from Kalimdor, the only reason for the conflict to continue is because the Forsaken wanted to sit on Lordaeron and Thrall was dumb enough to take them in.
In a more realistic vanilla WoW you'd probably get something like
>Night Elves that keep to themselves in North and Eastern Kalimdor, I can't see Thrall keeping up the beef in Ashenvale and Azshara after the WC3 main campaign realistically unless he really needs wood that badly.
And the Horde might be their own kind of loose unit with good relations
>Orcs in Durotar and the Barrens and a bit down North
>Trolls in Durotar and on their islands, Barrens, etc
>Some ogres in Dustwallow Marsh with Rexxar
>Tauren in Mulgore, Barrens
Meanwhile Humans
>Humans basically just endured the apocalypse, have a castle at Theramore that they can trade from, would probably just trade with the Orcs and other races or some shit
>Eastern Kingdom humans in some eternal beef with the Forsaken until the Lich King wakes up
>Blood elves probably align with the leftover humans after Garithos is dead because most of them were not that retarded
>Dwarves keep chillin
>Gnomes are gnomes
>Forsaken are basically the enemy of everyone but have significant buffers against many other factions thanks to how much Scourge shit there is

>>724090797
Guldan was always my guy. Just the dark wizard trope played well.

>>724090519
I think shadowlands also were mentioned somewhere in wc 1-2, but obviously as something more vague and in more mysterious way. Also some of DK's abilities mentioned shadowlands.

>>724045527 (OP)
>>724045709
Hehe. I did that.

The problem with Warcraft lore is that it's a setting with a bunch of interesting ideas that will forever be fumbled because the current writing staff are incapable of writing those ideas in a satisfying manner

>>724091014
If you think about it, the two continents would not really have much contact, since it was shown that it takes weeks, if not months for ships to cross the ocean during WC3 and its expansion.
None of these factions would even have a well established blue water navy or large enough merchant fleet to keep trade or military assistance going, especially with the apocalypse just being avoided after WC3.

The last good added lore was when they gave shamans to the Alliance and paladins to the horde, after tbc everything went to shit

>>724047825
>>724047960

Those are the Pygmies that are related to the Goblins and likely maybe have descended from a common ancestor. Maybe the Goblins descended from the Pygmies themselves.

>>724091349
Gobbos and dorfs exist and they keep improving transportation
I mean dwarves had actual fucking planes in wc3 already

>>724091349
Kul Tiras would have, but that's literally just them and they hadn't been much involved in the war as far as we know.

Warcraft 3 babies aren't allowed an opinion on what was the right direction for the future of Warcraft.

>>724091696
Thankfully most of the team on WC2 worked on WC3 and made it the objectively superior game already.

>>724090797
they surely subverted my expectations when they turned Deathwing into some flying rat that did fuck all and died like a bitch after all that buildup since warcraft 2.

>>724091105
Non-canon thanks to Metzen's retcon

>>724061643
>t. hyperfixates on the Stonetalon questline (written by someone who wasn't working in line with the rest of the writers)

The Stonetalon quests were written by Alex Afrasiabi, the guy who created Garrosh and wrote the bulk of quests before Cata. The rest of writers didn't like Garrosh and sabotaged his character on purpose.

>>724091696
Considering what we saw in the canceled Lord of the Clans. Blizzard was heading into that more cartoonish style from the get go.

>>724085325
>Allen Adham hoped to obtain a license to the Warhammer universe to try to increase sales by brand recognition”
> “Warhammer was a huge inspiration for the art-style of Warcraft, but a combination of factors, including a lack of traction on business terms and a fervent desire on the part of virtually everyone else on the development team (myself included) to control our own universe nixed any potential for a deal. We had already had terrible experiences working with DC Comics on “Death and Return of Superman” and “Justice League Task Force”, and wanted no similar issues for our new game
>Patrick Wyatt
Reply to me again and I'll rape your fucking dog or something, you faggot retard

>>724092128
The whole Garrosh story is such wasted potential, if only Blizzard had a handle on their writing.

>>724092221
Fucking based lmao

>>724092008
Cata suffered from the issues of, If you did not play Warcraft 2 or read the warcraft novels, you would have fuck all idea as who the fuck deathwing is outside of quest text that 99% of people dont read.

>>724045709
>>Elves are actually trolls
>>Humans are actually degenerated vikings
ripping off reality is bad writing

>>724092008
Played WC1 and 3 not 2 yet.

How is death wing even depicted in 2 when a lot of the broader ideas like Dragonflights and old gods didn't exist yet?

>>724087156
Powerful as he is, he can still be killed, or I guess banished because of WoW gay lore. Consider that on Azeroth there's the dragon aspects, each of them could likely 1v1 Archi with a reasonable chance to win. That's without getting into some of WoW's more absurd upgrades to casters, like BFA Jaina could likely 1v1 Archimonde.

>>724093134
jaina has mary sue magic, characters like that should not be in the spotlight

>>724092695
Invent something that doesn't exist in reality in any capacity. You have 3 seconds.

>>724093417
Orcs are Candy

>>724092673
well it would have been better if they tied scalie andy and leyley with papa instead of just reusing them as loot pinatas for a total of 5 seconds.

>>724093134
There's no way Jaina could fight Archimonde herself. Even the most Gul'dan could do was summon him. At least someone like Khadgar or Medivh is basically a Guardian.
Dragon Aspects could probably put up a fight, yeah, but back in the War of the Ancients Archimonde was fighting Night Elf gods without much trouble. He's definitely not a joke to them.

>>724092221
>a fervent desire on the part of virtually everyone else on the development team (myself included) to control our own universe nixed any potential for a deal
This line alone sinks your point you fucking retard. No one at Blizzard wanted to make warhammer.

>>724093570
Jaina's nonsense at the sieges of Undercity and Zandalar are at least on par with the destruction of Dalaran. City sized magical effects going off with very little effort from the caster.

>>724093987
Having a city sized effect is different from outright destroying an entire city like Archimonde did. The only time Jaina ever did something like that was by stealing Malygos' epic artifact item in MoP.
There's a reason why Archimonde has the Finger of Death instakill ability in-game.

>>724093815
So they held a meeting with GW and were told that they can't just run hogwild with WHFB lore and do their own dumb shit. So they made Warcraft, I really don't see why you're coping and seething so hard.

>>724093125
it's been so long but I remember him being both a Jafar expie who did a lot of messing around inside the human kingdoms and the designated final boss for the human campaign. Archimonde wasn't Dalaran's first rape, I believe Deathwing and Teron Gorefiend raided the place to get artifacts for the horde in W2.
Cataclysm Deathwing has too much schizo and too little scheming.

>>724093134
Malygos would have to be easily one of if not the most powerful entity on Azeroth if he hadn't gone batshit. Like, the aspect of Magic could absolutely fucking ruin the likes of the LK or Archimonde.
I kinda see why they turned him nuts and nerfed the dragon aspects. Though I'm glad they're stronger than ever now and not mindraped by titan bullshit.

>>724045874
This is what they took from you

>>724094736
>happened in Wrath
>happened in WoD and Legion
>happened in Cata
>happened in BFA
>happened in Dragonlands
these have all been plot points throughout wow expansions

>>724094367
The only person coping and seething is you, I didn't come into a whfb thread to whine about how no one cares about my game, like you did in a warcraft thread. One Sandnigger wanting to rape something british isn't proof of there ever being legitimate plans for a warhammer game, especially when everyone else at the company opposed making one.

>>724095384
You're just schizobabbling now
I accept your concession.

>>724045874
Reminds me that they actually added Al'abim in TurtleWoW. Well, they call it Tel'abim but w/e

>>724060828
one of the bigger red pills is when you learn that the original scifi authors were all occultists and worshipped demons

>>724060828
Fucking incredible book desu. Clarke was an all time great.

>>724080048
>into hunters
I see shamans, but hunters too? I don't see it desu

>>724060828
But it's the other way around.
Human's small, psychic peabrains didn't understand the visions they were seeing, and equated them to evil devils.

>>724097407
what exactly made the book incredible to you?

the story is that demons show up from outer space, force world peace onto humans and turn them into artsy rich snobs by removing resource scarcity

but the space-demons actually seeded the earth thousands of years ago and they are here to collect human psychic energy, and the space-demons initiate armageddon on earth by turning human children into organic nuclear bombs

then some nig hides in a cargo hold and ends up in the space-demon home world where they fly around and do stupid shit

if any of this was mind blowing to you, you are either an occultist faggot or just a midwit

>>724092673
I mean even if you didn't they do a great buildup with the whole big ass dragon rampaging around part of Cata
Shame about the rest

>>724097848
>Reddit spacing
>Not an ounce of whimsy in his soul
Colour me surprised.
It was incredible because it's unique. You're listing the sequence of events in the book without actually understanding any of them.
You've clearly read it or a summary, but your, I can only assume, autistic or otherwise handicapped brain is incapable of reading between the lines and reflecting on what is being said.
You lack introspection, work on your ability to empathize with others and consider notions from angles you wouldn't ordinarily take.
It's a fascinating book because it explores themes of determinism, progress, cost, exploration, consent and ones place in the universe.
ALL of that seems to have flown completely over your head which is frankly as pitiful as it is impressive.

>>724047919
Wasn't she supposed to serve for eternity in the Shitlands?

I hate the damn updated models for wyverns and rideable wolves so much
Other generic mounts didn't get fucked as hard

>>724098382
what is being said? articulate it without snark

>>724073437
'golems' implies the existence of the talmud, robots is the better term

>Humans were a cosmic accident
>It's in realities best interest to remove them from existence as soon as physically possible because they intentionally mess with things they don't understand.

>>724045785
>land creatures are actually aliens

>>724100552
That progress inherently has a cost. That pristine lives devoid of struggle are ultimately meaningless, that what we consider to be the most unconscionable evil may simply be natural to others and our "tormentors" may themselves be directed by forces beyond their control. Our primitive attempts at understanding nature is coloured by our preconceptions and biases.
It may be par the course now, but when this was written these were extremely novel concepts.
Clarke wrote this at a time when the majority of Sci Fi had aliens as either humans painted green or cheesy one dimensional invaders that are often a poor allegory for communists.

>>724046607
lmao nigga wanted to sound cool in front of the boys by trying to shit on "new retarded lore" but was outed as a newfag instead

>>724083135
It was though. In the Warcraft 3 manual the Eredar were clearly stated to be the demons that corrupted Sargeras. TBC changed it so that Sargeras was already corrupted and he turned the Eredar evil. It's not a huge retcon, but it was a retcon.

>>724100265
I hate damn near all the model updates. The change of style is just bad, almost nothing looks like how I imagined the originals but in higher quality.

>>724101876
okay and we're just going to ignore any and all occult implications over the fact that demons show up and lie to humans in order to initiate a biblical Armageddon event that destroys humanity

>>724103293
That's more of a Legion / Sargeras retcon than a Draenei retcon to be honest.

>>724082239
>Too many shit is

>>724103550
And that is exactly, the POINT. Humanity's pre-conception of the aliens is one of demons, the occult is implied, it's proven they're not demonic at all and if anything are victims in this as they're not able to ascend to whatever state humans eventually do.
The occult symbolism of the demon and the apocalypse serve as foils, for you, the reader to go "wow, okay, I read a book by it's cover. I should not make snap decisions about things based on instinct."

>>724103337
Eh I think that there's plenty that are OK or good too, just that some of them are massive fuck-ups though.

>>724067110
>Xal'atath is already confirmed to be a Domanaar.
A what? When was this stated?

>>724067110
It was implied elsewhere that Xal'atath was an alien who saw the writing on the wall when Dimensius came to eat her world and she said "fuck it" and became the silver surfer for him.

>>724067110
>dragonflight
dunguser slop, retconned next patch.

>>724079157
the show is so generic it could be filmed anywhere
no consequences, no character growth, each season is just cut and dry villain of the week that's all resolved by the finale
>there's a badass biker gang in Tulsa
>dead in the season finale
>this guy allied with the triad and is in over his head
>triad are killed in the season finale
I refuse to watch season 3

>>724105403
I assume he means this tweet also fuck elon I cant even view tweets without logging in anymore

>>724107069
>obvious play would be for Xal'atath to be a fallen world soul
>explains her age and obsession with Azeroth
>lets the writers say "oh, Xal'atath just wanted to empower Azeroth with void to counteract the titan machinery"
>this would work, given that Metzen already said 2 years ago that there's some titan conspiracy that will be revealed in the finale
>actually she's part of this group we made up 2 seconds ago
>the group is "order, but purple" and clashes thematically with the void

Genuinely how do the writers fuck up this hard? Why is Xal'atath even being forced into the antagonist role when her best role in tww was on Karesh.
>sends you to go undermine/kill some opposing group
>gets turned-on by you being such an unstoppable murder machine

now it's back to
>teleports in
>laughs
>gives people headaches and spawns void blobs out of thin-air
>teleports away
Jesus CHRIST

>>724067110
It's warcraft- nobody is actually bad, everybody is misguided. Raid bosses and other such world ending things are just what happens when one side gets to strong- eventually every side will be the hero and every side will be the villain. Honestly we might be there already, I haven't been following the story closely enough to say.

>>724059180
he's confirmed back in Midnight defending Silvermoon from the void

>>724047136
Tauren seem to be a natural race. A lot of the beast races, like furbolgs. Probably not murlocs with the Oracles in Sholazar Basin. The new allied race, Harronir, were approached by Tyr who offered to uplift them but they apparently declined.

The Harronir /dance is literally a fentanyl shuffle btw.

>>724045527 (OP)
>>724045709

This is why I fell out of love with the whole Warcraft IP...

They just couldn't keep the world-building simple... Humans, Orcs, Elves, Trolls.... fighting because <racism>, and once one warchief or General dies in the conflict, another rises up and we do it all over again..

But then some 'genius' decided to make it about Old Gods, and Void Lords, and Titans, and Naaru.....and wound up painting themselves into the corner with the lore, which is why WoW sucks now... it's stupid.