Thread 724099862

Why did RTS die?

I killed it

forced compfaggotry instead of good campaigns

>>724099862 (OP)
Because of this guy: >>724099892

>>724099892
Why did he do it, bros?

>>724100182
I don't know, you should ask him.

>>724099892
HE CANT KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT

RTS games are basically the fighting games of the strategy genre.
>artificial difficulty
>require either immense APS or the memorization of a ludicrously long starting build order just so you can get STARTED with online play
MOBAs did to RTS what Smash did to the fighting genre: they took the best elements out of it and left the unfun garbage behind, but boomers will never admit that.

>>724099862 (OP)
I know I might be in the minority here, but I always liked to play the campaigns, I also played multiplayer, but I bought these games primarily for the single player aspect. I feel like all these companies are trying to go for the esport crowd, but the numbers they assume are there just aren't.

>>724100359
meds

Still the best RTS campaign.
Long live the king

>>724102001
>"the best campaign"
>posts like 8 campaigns

>>724099862 (OP)
because it's a singleplayer genre, it fails when it focuses on weird evergreen casual gamer multiplayer shit

>>724099862 (OP)
RTS didn't die, stormgate was just fucking dogshit.

Strategy is a PC specific genre. And Microsoft killed PC gaming with Vista.

>>724102001
I hate Sylvanas. I hate orcs as noble savages. I hate blood elves. I hate upkeep. I hate the changes they made to appease Warhammer. I still love you Warcraft 3, please come back.

>>724100359
>correctly timing your worker production while making your first five buildings is a ridiculously long build order

RTS didn't regress, the players did. You motherfuckers just want to play Sim City without any fear of punishment from your opponent for doing random shit.

>>724099862 (OP)
>why bad games die
fixed

>>724099862 (OP)
social media
lower attention spans
lower IQs

this game was like one of those dozen overwatch clones but for an already dead game in a dead genre, so weird

>>724102001
>we wuz hippies
Fuck off.

>>724099862 (OP)
General gaming pivoted to consoles almost 20 years ago, and RTSs are funky on consoles. Also became niche, since "MOBAs" took their place with the general audience.

>should we make a game in a niche genre that will appeal to a niche crowd that will never please all of them and will be endlessly compared to the greats
>or should we make anything else

>>724103221
People still make games even though good ones exist.

You can still get coop games or 1v1s (dont know about high mmr), in sc2 still. Former blizz devs simply will never beat SC2 or SC1.

RTS died because losing in a 1v1 is much worse than losing in a 5v5. You cant blame anyone for your loss, same problem fighting games have, you alone is the reason you lost not your team mates etc.

>>724103667
>you alone is

>>724099862 (OP)
rts didnt die. stormgate was just shit.
and people tried to tell them about it but devs just ignored any criticism as "grifting".

>>724102001
i used cheat codes to beat them

>>724103646
I'm still made that the last thing they ever did to co-op was introduce a busted ass commander like Mengsk. Every time my partner is Mengsk I just want to go afk because they'll probably solo the map.

because RTS "fans" only play their childhood game

>>724100359
not reading this faggot post + redeemed

>>724099943
What game focused comp? They all just launched as regular games and weren't that good.

Also, people love PvP games. They're the most popular and most hours played.

>>724100359
It's not hard to eco up to T3 mass extractors on team maps on SupCom, which is all you really need to do to build whatever you want.

It's also low APM, even with such potential for large and/or lots of different groups.

RTS are more risk:reward, which is objectively more fun, even giving you the shakes, which aren't really found in MOBAs, at least not to the extreme.

RTS just need a specific set of traits to be fun, and games rarely do that.

>>724105072
Oh yeah, slopgate has records hours of pvp.

>>724099862 (OP)
They're not dead, they're just other games

>>724101110
What game(s)?

>>724099862 (OP)
ASSFAGGOTS distilled the experience down and simplified it

>>724102001
Is that Garrosh and Arthas?

>>724099862 (OP)
hyperautistic tryhards

MOBAs killed them.

>>724102128
>Anything.
>A singleplayer genre.
Look at the top played on Steamcharts, or top moneymakers.

I only play team matches on my RTS and they're peak video gaming

>>724102575
Criticize Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance.

It might be a perfect game.

I want to start playing on gamespeed 10.

>>724102659
Normal people are skillfull. They can learn almost anything in an hour or two with good tutorials.

>>724105956
Played it recently and the UI is kinda ass
I mean it was good for its time but it shows the engine age now.

>>724102884
The top two MOBAs are PC-only, plus MMOs exist. Etc. The PC gaming demographic was like 900M 10-15 years ago.

>>724103667
I would say that most people who play RTS play team games, so I don't really understand your argument. New people could too.

>>724104391
Not many games are good. If I asked for a A+ budget successor to SupCom, I don't think you could list anything. Why would I play anything else. See zoom and building and unit variety:depth.

>>724105524
Ludicrous strawman.

>>724106051
I play on FAF, and I don't really notice any problems.

>>724104391
Not many games are good. If I asked for a A+ budget successor to SupCom, I don't think you could list anything. Why would I play anything else. See zoom, and building and unit variety:depth.

>>724103667
based chad knows how the brain works. my question is why doesn't this happen for 1v1 stuff outside of vidya? tennis would be dead. i think sports and the investment to hone your skill treeshakes accountability brainlets off.

>>724099862 (OP)
People are too politically correct nowadays.

You cannot make C&C Generals in this day and age without getting cancelled

>>724106763
>a A+
I was going to post "a AAA". I'm not reposting it.

>>724106950
Just make a loli RTS.

It would be even cooler if it had a first and third person mode.

>>724106950
>tfw I'll never get to play the GLA in a new campaign despite living in the era of suicide bombers, ISIS, and truck bombs

Dr. Thraxs map still lives in my head.

>>724100359
KEK this lil nigga just anally blasted every single retard boomer faggot, just read how many are already coping and malding at this powerful TRVKE

>>724101110
Same

>>724102001
Correct

>>724099862 (OP)
Still a higher peak than onirism lol

>>724100359

>TFW no fighting game RTS.

>>724107609
Stop replying to yourself

>>724106781
>why doesn't this happen for 1v1 stuff outside of vidya?
Because the process of sporting itself is fun. In RTS, what you do work - not play. You're being skill checked every second and the only moment of satisfaction is the victory screen.

>>724101110
that's basically all I ever bought RTS for. World in Conflict is a great single player campaign especially with the DLC campaign added for the soviet union. we don't get RTS campaigns with that quality anymore.

>>724102001
>online is still popular
>still the best in the genre
>still has a pro scene
>recently updated
How did they do it?

>>724099862 (OP)
imagine creating an art "style" so bad it kills all hype immediately.

RTSes are too complex for your average gamer in this generation. All they care about now is buying a png so they can see boobie everyday

>>724107852
He's literally only criticizing hyper-APM RTS.

Anybody would like a good RTS (of which are extremely rare) if they got into it.

>>724108037
>>online is still popular
>>still the best in the genre
>>still has a pro scene
>>recently updated
I think OG Blizzard were just masters of their craft. The best artists, writers, level designers, musicians... It's a shame to see what they became after the Activision buyout and breastmilk fiasco.

>>724107852
Bads are coping in the most hilarious of ways. You can just tell this was written by someone who thought himself hot shit and got bodied and placed in gold.

>>724101110
Stormgate 1v1 is shit though nobody in the sweaty RTS scene played it seriously.hTey didn't put any effort into it at all, they rarely patched it all EA and still had creep camps right before release.

They've spent the last year remaking the awful campaign to make a slightly less awful campaign.

They all feel the same, like you've got your little base, you get resources, build a few dozen units. It doesn't really feel grand like you're commanding an army. Kind of lame.

>>724099862 (OP)
idk I pkayed some starcraft 2 when it came out and I was having fun. multiplayer seems like a niightmare though. I'll n ever finish it though. oh well. hows the first one?

>>724108037
>>still the best in the genre
LOL. LMAO.

SupCom FA(F?).

>>724099862 (OP)
>stormgay
yeah, horrible game

>>724108345
Didn't they waste a shit ton of money on expensive business properties and other useless crap? I'm surprised they even have the capacity to develop the game further.

>>724099862 (OP)
for me it was when shogun: total war came out

>>724106763
>If I asked for a A+ budget successor to SupCom
this is what you retards do every time
>uhm if there isn't a game exactly like what's in my head, i'll stick with my childhood game.
>wtf why is my favorite genre dead?!

>>724108418
The first one is better in every way except for the controls and unit pathfinding.

Old RTS anons, hear my plea.

I haven't yet played LOTR: Battle of Middle Earth games...

Is it possible to learn that power in 2025?
Is it possible to [redacted] it using archive.org?

Hear my plea!

>>724108630
is there a download of it someone where you don't need to use whatever their faggoty fucking launcher is

>>724108698
I don't know, sorry. I just dealt with the launcher existing since I also used it to play Overwatch before that shit the bed.

>>724108523
>I'm surprised they even have the capacity to develop the game further.
They don't they've essentially shut down and fired everyone but the CEO refuses to admit it for some reason. And yeah they blew through a ton of cash and started to run out of money before EA even released.

For example they spent 650k on one of the bad cinematics nobody likes or remembers. They were spending like they still worked at Blizzard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppm64jlvB6s is a decent summary.

>>724100359
Yes. Part of it. I still want a RTS where you control a small force of units and have to play for objectives.
The units and abilities are based on a point system. And your part of a team with 4 to 9 other players.
If a unit dies you can recall it based on resources your team can get by doing the missions.
Oh right im just talking about World in Confict. Anyways. Give me that game but with smaller forces but more players in each team so it becomes a bigger scale without too much micromanagement authism.

>>724108679
there is a fucking whole launcher built for getting all the BFME games for free bud. BFME1,2 and ROTWK are all free and patchable with the launcher. look up "All in One Launcher".

>>724108428
never really liked that game. i really like how wc3 did heroes and creeping

Back in my youth I tried playing them with the kids in computer lab at lunch break and they just spam clicked and anal raped me repeatedly for weeks. They raped me at unreal tournament, too, but at least I was able to improve and it was fun.

>>724108830
so I got a license for starcraft anthology in 2010.
how do I play it?

>>724108679
When games become ABANDONWARE, they usually end up on a website with an oddly fitting name.

>>724099862 (OP)
casuals started playing and got filtered
social pressure forcing players to pick braindead games if they wanted to have fun with friends

>>724102442
We want to play a videogame without slaving to the "meta".

>>724099862 (OP)
Because RTS multiplayer is too autistic for 99% of people.

>>724109063
also my world of warcraft account is locked. I have several people start using my account over the years somehow when I barely ever played the game. anyway, I have to own this fucking game right? where do I download it? not familiar with this launcher/storefront fucking at all

>>724108608
I don't think "being like SupCom" is some unmasterable thing. It IS varied and deep, but a studio could do it. No actual-studio has made one, AFAIK. A commander, techs, two resources (one that's limited but infinitely lasting, another that can be made freely), lots of different types of units and buildings, land-sea-and-air, and zoom out.

At me.

>>724108608
>Saar why you have standards bloody bitch

>>724109123
Every competitive activity has a meta, even "casual" PVP games like Clash Royale.

>>724108986
>never really liked that game.
Why? It's objectively good. Watch some Gyle casts.

What would revive RTSes?

>>724109068
GOG?

>>724099862 (OP)
I stopped playing RTS games because I only like comp stomps and everyone started designing the entire game around competitive MP. I refused to play with or against sweats, so I just stopped playing new RTS games. Still play old ones.

>>724109434
A good game and good advertisement. RTS can be better and more fun than MOBAs because MOBAs are extremely limited and repetitive.

>>724109434
The death of console gaming. I'm serious, you can't reach a new RTS audience without first weaning people off of gamepads.

>>724109063
>>724109138
anyone have any clue? would appreciate it I wanna blast bro

>>724109497
>comp stomps
Did you play SupCom 2 with friends?

It's really entertaining, especially to watch.

>>724109651
>What are MOBAs and MMOs?
Lull.

>>724109792
Two genres that are doing extremely well on consoles because of how basic they are? Not much of a gotcha there.

>>724109792
MOBAs are not really like true RTS games at all, anyone who says otherwise is a coping lowskill dota player.

>>724105673
That's Thrall, zoom zoom. Before Blizzard neutered the fuck out of his character.

>>724099862 (OP)
EA did a hostile takeover of Westwood. That's when RTS died.

>>724109721
I played Forged Alliance with friends.

>>724108354
Should RTSes go in the Total War direction where one unit is a whole squad so it looks like there's a lot more going on? Instead of recruiting a soldier you recruit a platoon that has a bunch of soldiers in it, but you still order it around like it's one unit.

>>724109792
It baffles me that anyone ever calls MOBAs RTS. Just cause they started as a custom map for WC3 I guess? It's basically multiplayer Diablo

>>724099862 (OP)
I've got into AoE 2 DE lately because I played the original as a kid. I'm serious about getting good and playing PvP but just learning all the hotkeys is insane. It's fun but playing it is like a second job. Most people don't have the time or drive to bother with this genre. That and MOBAs are basically RTS games for retards.

>>724110006
No, go the Cossacks route of actually having your armies be big

>>724105589
thats artosis playing starcraft.

>>724109834
They're mostly played on PC. People are used to M+KB.

>>724109862
I don't know your point.

>>724109907
He looks so upset to be Thrall.

>>724110218
You're half right, I'll grant that. People are used to mouse + WASD. Ask 100 MOBA players what a control group is however and maybe five will answer you correctly.

>>724110341
He hated humans then.

>>724110341
Thrall in WC3 wasn't a gigapussy like he is in WoW.

>>724109959
How was the AI?

>>724109651
Previous RTSes were successful without being on consoles though.

How many console players would be interested in an RTS anyway?

>>724110006
Absolutely not. Armies are fun with straight shots vs. arcs, damage calculations (vs. groups), etc.

>>724109348
>objectively

Too much effort to play. Each match takes like 1-2 hours to get through. Playing against computers is BS because they just cheat. Playing against real people feels like they’re cheating cause some of them are too good. The one game I did enjoy a play a lot of while I could was halo wars 2 because it was fairly easy to get in to, but then the retarded devs decided to release some bullshit broken DLC characters that were locked behind a paywall and I gave it up, then when I tried to get back into it it was too late, everyone had already moved on.

>>724103667
This is also a big factor. Play any team match in a moba or RTS and it's nothing but dunning Kruger idiots blaming their teammates. In a 1v1 situation it's all on you.

>>724101110
skirmisher fan here, i just enjoy custom setups and building up as big as possible armies to throw at the npcs. Funnily enough only supreme commander 2 ever ticked that box for me, especially cuz i could do custom stuff like Air-only battles, or sea/land only too.

unfortunately that game is 32bit so it would often crash after an hour of play. Remaster when..

>>724110528
>How many console players would be interested in an RTS anyway?
They're not interested because it's impossible to reach them. RTS is a PC-centric genre. Some people won't learn how to swim until you throw them in the pool.

>>724099862 (OP)
Putting the cart before the horse and chasing esports shit.

>>724110104
I meant
>I feel like all these companies are trying to go for the esport crowd

>>724110750
They're simply trying to cater to the only people who even play RTS to begin with.

>>724106781
I don’t keep score when playing tennis. It’s just exercise.

>>724110717
Nah average match time in AoE 2 is 40 mins or less

>>724108876
Kek as soon as I started reading I immediately thought of world in conflict. I agree that that sort of scope, scale, and pace should be attempted again, the social/team aspect of RTS games is underdeveloped and imo one of the reasons that RTS can't pull big player counts. Stuff like ground control, world in conflict, battleforge, AI war etc have unique mechanics and design that deviate heavily from the 1v1 duel and we need that innovation instead of just making another starcraft clone.

is the free version of starcraft 1 with like ads or some bullshit?

>>724103667
>you alone is the reason you lost
Actually it's the developers fault for buffing the strategy my opponent used, it takes no skill. He's retarded too because he plays a different faction than mine that's broken, if it was a mirror match I would've won as I'm at least 10x as good as him, it's just my faction that takes 15x more skill than his to play. It's also the map makers fault for making shitty maps that favor the other races too much. I also have to deal with the lag, shitty connection, bad pathfinding and the fact my buildings didn't make when I told them to

>>724111016
There's a giant banner advertising the remaster on the main menu now, but other than that I don't recall any ads.

>>724111016
no but the new graphics are locked and you can't ladder. You can play campaign or custom games though which is cool if that's all you care about.

>>724111173
what does ladder mean?

>>724103667
Battle Royales are mostly random 1v1s, some of them having forced 1v1s like the Gulag in Warzone and they are doing pretty well.

>>724111390
rank 1v1

>>724111173
campain is mainly what I wanna play yeah.

>>724102001
>Audio from the Arthas returning home cutscene plays in the ruins of the throne room in WoW
I miss when Warcraft oozed SOVL

>>724110370
Cntrl groups are easy to learn unless it's a gookclick.

>>724099862 (OP)
He did it
>>724099892

>>724110370
Depends, if you ask Dota players then like 90% will know them.

>>724111514
Non-RTS players call every RTS game a gook click. Just look at all the bored console war faggots that show up in these threads posting the same copypastas like clockwork.

>>724111586
You and I both know the pick rate of Meepo and Broodmother. Don't lie.

>>724110528
I think it would be trivial with proper advertising and a quality, medium APM game.

I think the biggest hurdles would be making them love all the buildings and units (just be cool), and helping them learn the game, maybe specifically the startup.

so just to be clear this free version is the same exact game as the one in the collection I bought 15 years ago?

>>724110678
Humans come from the same two cells, with the same mathematical propagation. People just need to be told what they like; people that know, can more accurately predict how much fun they will have. However, we all have the same systems and connections.

Best RTS setting: fantasy, sci-fi, military or something more unique?

I feel like a new RTS needs to be something well done in a standard setting to attract a wide audience. Doing something too unique would probably reduce the amount of people willing to give it a chance.

>>724111768
yea

>>724111650
You don't need Meepo or Brood to use courier.

>want to get into RTS
>spend 3000 hours learning the game
>spend 800 hours learning all the keybinds
>spend 4500 learning all the strategies
>finally confident enough to hop into online
>instantly lose becasue you panned the camera slightly left instead of up and to the right 1 degree

>>724111978
>be born retarded
And how is that the genres fault? If it takes you that long to learn then it's also going long to learn aim or movement in fps.

>he took the post seriously
>had the gall to call the poster retarded

>>724111978
Thank you for making it clear that you've never installed an RTS, let alone lost a ranked match in one. If you just want to shitpost there are plenty of Twitter threads available.

All this bullshit you just posted is not only hyperbole, but doesn't even apply to low rank games where your opponent is just as garbage as you are.

>>724111978
>want to get into counter strike
>spend 3000 hours learning the maps
>spend 800 hours learning all nade throws
>spend 4500 hours in aim trainer
>finally confident enough to hop into online
>instantly lose because you moved the mouse cursor 1 frame later than your opponent
Damn, no wonder no one plays counter strike

>>724099862 (OP)
you just can't beat nearly 30yo classics

>>724110717
Small maps are often 10-15 minutes.

Not all AI cheats.

So get better. I regularly contribute to wins because I found something that a lot of people don't defend, and a little game knowledge and trying into the fog can get you fun wins.

Just play a fun RTS, one that gets you into it extremely.

>>724099862 (OP)
That game was ass

>>724112204
What games does Tempest Rising resemble the most?

>>724111904
sick, I'm gonna play shit shit. completely new genre. I have no clue what I'm doing but it did seem interesting

>>724110741
SupCom 2 has extremely good AI.

>>724106950
>new age americans would unironically defend terrorists and making fun of them so we can't have GLA
>ea will not allow a game to not be sold in china so we can't have them
>US would be pussified to the max or diluted into NATO with a burqa woman leader because diversity yay!

>>724110746
I don't think anyone has a problem with PC gaming.

>>724112370
Good for you man. Just remember that even if you don't know how to move your units well, you can't go wrong by constantly spending your money. Keep making buildings and pumping units out of them. If you're floating 1000 minerals and you're not at max army size then you're playing wrong and need to make more production.

>>724110971
1v1 is the best way to balance and scale the game.

>>724112342
command and conquer, they even got Frank Klepacki from command and conquer to help with the ost

>>724111029
Lull.

Play a good game.

>>724112383
they sometimes bug out and build the wrong buildings, winding up with no capital buildings and being easy-meat, but overall yeah, very good AI, fun to play against.

>>724112554
>they even got Frank Klepacki from command and conquer to help with the ost
Based as fuck

>>724111650
>Non-RTS players call every RTS game a gook click.
I don't find that.

>>724110971
This. It shouldent have to be a "moba" but people are far more attracted by controlling fewer but more unique units these days.
But with a deck like costum setups you can either choose to play for example 20 riflemen. Or 5 special forces. That has a dedicated anti tank and sniper guy and can call on off map artillery. Choose either 8 basic ifvs or 4 tanks with armor upgrades and dedicated abilities like smokescreens and laser designation for an allied player to airstrike more effectively.
Then get maps where you can really play with the terrain and for example transport an infantry teammate with your transport chopper covered by two assault choppers.
Or sacrifice one tank in your deck for a bridgelayer that can help out your team with a faster route over a river.

>>724112481
cheers bro thanks for the tips

>>724111860
Just be like SupCom and make everything recognizable: subs, frigates, battlecruisers, etc.

I do think you could pull off a loli RTS though.

>>724099892
you motherfu-

>>724112526
Based on what? An overwhelming majority of multiplayer games are team based, compensating for scale does not seem to be an issue.

>>724111978
>>spend 800 hours learning all the keybinds
In some games, it's just clicking, and sometimes using cntrl groups.

>>724108339
This may shock you, but concepts and ideas exist and survive on mass appeal. The average person who played the most popular RTS games of all time, like Age of Empires and Warcraft III, were not playing them to listen to hyperpop 800 BPM remixes of anime openings while smashing out 400 APM, they were playing them for custom games and cool stories about building a big army and crushing AI. That's what my friends and I did two decades ago while playing RTS games on our family computers. Only the weirdest of freak kids ever got into compfaggotry, and they were always kind of excluded because nobody wanted to get ass fucked by a perfectly executed strategy when they could be chilling and blowing things up.

RTS is dead, genuinely, because as a genre it shifted towards attempting to appeal to an extreme minority of a minority of a minority that exclusively plays StarCraft and views all non-StarCraft products as inherently inferior, which is a terrible marketing strategy. The average person will never, ever give a shit about APM and micro. Ever. It's the same reason arena shooters and fighting games are mostly dead, outside of occasional bursts of life that are immediately extinguished as soon as the average person comes into unfiltered contact with some loser who has been playing only one genre of game for the last 20 years and completely flattens the casual playerbase.

You can say "I'd rather the genre be dead than appeal to casuals", but when you say that, you also can't complain that it IS dead.

>>724103667
chess is popular

>>724112942
Because 1v1 has to be good, and you can't do it in reverse, reasonably.

>>724103667
>>724100359
>>724101110
>Mobas are the evolution
>Multiplayer ruined
>1v1
>it's just APM
>people moved on to city builder/4x
please never stop posting this bait and always make sure it's as close to the top of the thread as possible.
Anons think those are real opinions
>>724108450
>>724108339

don't worry my post, there are enough dumb idiots in every new thread falling for it

>>724113073
StarCraft 1 is the best selling RTS of all time and it isn't close and the vast majority played casual comp stomps and various other multiplayer shit and the campaign of course. It also had the greatest and sweatiest esport of all time that is still going today.

It's not one or the other you can have both and that is what the all the great RTS did.

>>724113073
People didn't play comp simply because they were scared. That's not saying anything about its enjoyability.

Nobody gives a shit about APM, but micro is fun. People do it all the time in MOBAs.

>make sc2-like garbage instead of BroodwarGAWDlike gameplay

1 job

>>724113329
You do have to choose one or the other because modern developers don't have the talent or willpower to make something cool, fun and competitive.

>>724101110
You're the majority you stupid faggot

>>724111586
90% ??? What? Every game has arc warden or meepo? No most do not give a shit about control groups, they just know F3 for courier, that's it

>>724113404
>Stormgate MP sucks cause its basically SC2 but no IP behind it
>No SP
>CHOOSE ONE AND ONLY ONE

Get out of gamedev already

>>724113427
The majority of popular and hour-per-day games are PvP.

>>724113376
>People do it all the time in MOBAs.
Do mobabs actually believe that? Kinda sad when you think about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQtPMLOctBg

>>724103667
I never got this viewpoint. The thought of letting your mates down is much more stressful for me than just losing myself, this is why I always stuck to 1v1 and could never really get into team games other than with teams large enough to really dilute responsibility, those all suck for other reasons though.

>>724113440
They understand the concept of being able to click and move more than 1 thing. In League (and like every other moba?) no matter what you click or select, you can only ever move your 1 single hero/champion.

>>724113605
It's still RTS-like micro.

Still mad with Starcraft 2 campaign. All because they started to redeem that bitch Kerrigan.

>sc2 esports clone
yuck, tempest rising is a decent modern c&c clone and did pretty well

RTS were fun when people were still bad at them and mostly learned to play by themselves instead of relying on guides and YouTube videos.
It's the same thing that happened to mmos. Just look at how people played vanilla wow compared to how classic is played today.

>>724105793
AoE4 is the most criminally underrated game in the last decade. It's legit a masterpiece and better than 2.

>>724113818
Being good at RTS is like learning a instrument there isn't really any short cuts you just have to put in the work.

>>724113818
What's the pic?

>>724113941
The difference is huge, but an instrument can technically be learned to an acceptable extent in a few hours.

Compare that with MOBAs, where people have to spend dozens or hundreds of hours finding all the characters.

People will do anything if it's proven to be fun.>>724113889

>>724099862 (OP)
Because I want to build big bases and big armies and then smash them together, but most RTS developers have always tried to avoid base-building for whatever reason. So RTS is a dead genre, while city-builders and colony sims with RTS elements are doing decent.

Overwhelming emphasis on PvP also hurt the genre. PvP in general is declining.

>>724113818
I've been playing AOE:DE and even low-ELO games have advanced strategies and guys trying to rush in the feudal age. Been playing Beyond All Reason as well, it's a great RTS but already it's just too sweaty for me most of the time.

developers need to add bot ladders like mortal kombat

I noticed a lot of games that implement bots just let you go to any map any difficulty level and any settings you want - this is BORING and GAY. Give me a forced progression ladder instead please, and a stopping point where you "beat the game". This is infinitely easier to develop too than a gigantic story campaign.

>>724114245
No quote at the end*.

>>724112342
Unironically Starcraft

>>724113320
That's a LOT of cope.

>>724113705
I mean, I would have accepted the new direction if Kerrigan stayed human and they introduced a new Zerg villain to keep things fresh, but they went with a half-assed redemption arc where Kerrigan both returns to the good side AND stays Zerg without getting shot in the head by any of her former allies.

>>724114245
>but an instrument can technically be learned to an acceptable extent in a few hours.
Well I doubt that I don't mean strumming some notes I mean actually playing it and learning a skill. You can tell people all about control groups and builds and what to build when but the fact is your fingers just won't move fast enough for a long time and your mouse micro will be terrible too.

You will lose a lot even if you have Flash hanging over your shoulder and telling you everything.

Because they're trying to pander to literal autists with mental illness and they just like aoe2 and starcraft

>>724099862 (OP)
Just finished playing AoE1. It's an old, jank ass game but still has a bigger following than Stormgate. Why is that? Fixating on mechanics is a red herring for developers.

>>724114543
You don't really have to move very fast in regular RTS. TA, for example, isn't some high APM game.

>>724114564
True, I would tell modern devs to just rehash AoE2 and Starcraft, but they don't even have enough talent in India to copy the homework of 20 year old games.

>>724099862 (OP)
Barrier to entry for new players is too high, and nobody in the game will leave theirs.
New players don't want to get their asses kicked online for 300 hours to become mediocre.
Old players don't want to stop winning the game they have 3000 hours in.
And getting gud is the most boring shit in the universe.

>>724114574
Stormgate was the most bland and uninspired game I've ever played. The physics were floaty and gay, the graphics are extremely dull, and it does nothing well. AoE1 is the godfather of them all and offers a lot more than Stormgate.

I miss Warzone 2100 and Shattered Galaxy
Units having varied speeds was important

>>724099862 (OP)
Blizzard just let Starcraft die and did nothing with it. Can't even get into Starcraft ladder now because you'll get raped by smurfs

>>724113941
>Being good at RTS
almost nobody wants to do that
its a dead genre

Come home white man

>>724114814
>smurfs
It's actually just one smurf, and his name is Rich.

>>724114834
People don't know what they want. RTS is fundamentally objectively good. People just need the right design and advertising.

>>724114781
The fucking Nexon MMO where you had to grind levels for your units? People actually had fun playing that?

>>724114982
Hell yeah I did, some of the strats were hilarious

I thoroughly enjoyed making units that couldn't move but had a billion HP to cap points

I don't get what the devs where thinking when they created stormgate since it looks like a modded bootleg SC2+WC3. Why would your average RTS player play a clone if they already have SC2/WC3 in their library?

>>724099862 (OP)
I'm shocked this piece of shit got 5K players

>>724105072
PVP is a good side addition to an already strong single player experience. If you just make a PVP RTS, you won't get anybody volunteering to play the game in the first place to get hooked because this is not an FPS game. Losing in an RTS can take multiple hours whereas just learning to play it in a good campaign can be something anybody can pick up and play.

>>724106950
I hold Generals would be a good game no matter what it was about. Replace all three factions with generic politically correct stand-ins and it would still be a good game. It was made with love from people who were RTS industry vets who made the best RTS games in the industry.

>>724115052
Graphics are fun.

>>724115052
>I don't get what the devs where thinking
They were thinking that a 10 man development team with kickstarter money could out-do the combined manpower and resources of all of Activision-Blizzard. Surely gamers will be desperate enough to buy our slop since SC2 is no longer in active development!

>>724115052
nothing about SG design decisions make sense. Tim Morten is a corporate hack who just wanted to fly around conventions and huff farts he looks like a deer in headlights when asked to actually make a RTS.

>>724115157
MOBAs aren't FPS either.

>>724099862 (OP)
Wow. I knew this was bad, but I didn't know it was THIS bad. This was a decent sized project. Imagine pouring millions of dollars and years of work into a game that's being played by 11 people. It's a hole that it isn't likely to dig itself out of either because no matter how much they may improve the game, no one will pick it up because it's a competitive multiplayer game that no one is playing. There's no point in spending weeks, months, or years learning a complex, competitive game that no one is playing.

>>724114065
Some late 90s 3D software artist I think

>>724115193
A few developers could make an objectively good RTS in a month.

>>724115193
What's funny is that what you're describing is exactly the mentality behind Planetary Annihilation. Which Uber made on Monday Night Combat and Kickstarter money with a team of like 15 people.

And that game went on to sell thousands and kick-start multiple sequels and expansions.

No the fact of the matter is that Stormgate looks like a boring, generic piece of shit that has elements that were done better in other games and a concept nobody wanted.

>>724113889
This is actually the most underrated game, and best AOE.

>>724099862 (OP)
Koreans

>>724115246
MOBAs aren't RTS either.

>>724115308
Sure, but they wouldn't be trying to ape the cinematics and graphical fidelity of SC2 either. If you only have a few million dollars, just clone Brood War, not 2.

>>724115324
what mobile game is this?

>>724115396
They're fundamentally similar and take a lot of time to be good against all of the characters, while being PvP games.

>RTS died and doesn't sell
>Arena Shooters died and don't sell
>action games like Ninja Gaiden try to come back but don't sell

We need to just accept that the normies enjoy Souls-Likes, FPS shooters and sports. There is nothing else for them.

>>724100359
RTS died because everyone wanted to play as a single unit or hero all the time in an RTS, then MOBAs came and it revolves entirely around that. MOBAs pretty much did what Hero Shooters did to Arena shooters like Halo, Quake and so on who later pretty much turned into Arena shooters, except for Halo which backpedaled on classes after the disaster of Halo 5's MP.

>>724115320
i could never get into this game, i can't stand that you can't see the whole map at once and to make things worse: there are multiple maps to fight on at once.

>>724099862 (OP)
>Why did RTS die?
false premise; the best RTS ever made is still going strong, in spite of the devs' efforts to fuck with it

>>724115554
For the record, Halo is, and very likely, will remain irrelevant since they can't innovate to save their lives and their customers just want Halo 3 again every single time.

>>724115516

>A sports game with RTS controls.

Anyway, I really do think that RTS can be objectively good and what players enjoy more than MOBAs.

>>724115514
>They're fundamentally similar
No they aren't. You just made such an absurd statement that anybody who plays either genre can tell you why you're wrong. This is like saying Diablo is like Warcraft because they both use the mouse and are top-down.

>>724099862 (OP)
focus on pvp and starcraft2-fication

>>724115408
They had $45 million dollars. I think if we could see a complete list of all RTS game budgets StormGate would be at the top only below SC2.

The end result? 12 single player missions and a unfinished 1v1.

>>724115563
That's part of the game. The micro doesn't matter on planetary scale. If your small team gets annihilated you have a bigger team behind it. It's like worrying about individual robots in Forged Alliance.

>>724099862 (OP)
They always have weak as fuck stories and RTS will never pass the greats at a fun/competitive level so they need to win somewhere but they never do.

>>724115554
>RTS died because everyone wanted to play as a single unit or hero all the time in an RTS, then MOBAs came and it revolves entirely around that.
Not really. It's not that RTS players "wanted" to play as a single unit, it's just that managing a single unit is much easier and more manageable than microing/macroing an entire army, so it became more accessible and appealing to a larger audience.

>>724102001
Part of that is because no one has bothered to release anytbing even close

>>724115495
I'm serious. I thought the same thing too when it came out and it's legit really fucking good. It's not a mobile game, it is an actual RTS. The style seems bad at first but it's actually REALLY good in motion and all the units are very good looking, have nice animations and are easy to read.

There is a private server called Project Celest where you can play it all for free free and they even added 2 new civs that play very well. Or just fucking watch videos on youtube, but honestly do actually give it a shot.

>>724115554
I don't think a preference for single-unit gameplay is inherent, but it's possible making a hero unit powerful, already, in games like Forged Alliance.

>>724115193
>10 man development
Stormgate was burning 10 million dollars a year and had around 50 people working on it
>>724115408
>a few million dollars
Stormgate had over 40 millions budget

>>724104060
Yeah you is

>>724115554
>>724115764
>RTS died because everyone wanted to play as a single unit or hero all the time in an RTS
RTS died because nobody made any RTS remotely enjoyable since Warcraft 3. DOTA didn't start as its own game, it started as a game people played inside Warcraft 3 because people got bored with Warcraft 3 and just wanted the hero macro parts of it.

Warcraft 3 is an example of the perfect RTS IMO. You can win through micro, macro, out-strategizing or out-playing your opponent. You could build a hero to annihilate entire armies or build an army that could annihilate any hero.

It's not Icefrog or Normalfags saying that they only prefer the hero combat when they overwhelmingly picked MOBAs and MOBA gameplay. That's them saying the new RTS' suck and can't compare to Warcraft 3. Which is fair because Warcraft can't compare to Warcraft 3 anymore, either.

>long awaited RA-like
>released and forgotten in a week

>>724115663
Hero unit gameplay exists.

I've been playing this and having fun. If you like They Are Billions check it out.

>>724116039
I'm a poorfag so I'm waiting for a >30% sale
>just pirate
I'm not a hypocrite that wishes for the death of my favorite genres

>>724115697
>focus on pvp
What is design that's focused on PvP?

>>724099862 (OP)
Age of empires 2 has more players, brood war has more players. Hell even SC2 which this game so desperately tried to ape has more.
>>724100359
>memorization of a ludicrously long starting build order
Is six on sheep, 3 to wood, pull in the boar, mill the chickens, pull in the other boar and then mill the berries too much for zoomers?

>>724116073
idk what this has to do with anything. A bunch of RTS games have heroes. The heroes don't define the game. They're just units inside of it.

Are we going to call Chess a MOBA because it has the Queen?
Ridiculous, again.

>>724099862 (OP)
Age of Empires II is doing fine

>>724115719

>Moves a Brick into your base.

>>724100359
>artificial difficulty
Just play a game with the difficulty you want.
>require either immense APS or the memorization of a ludicrously long starting build order just so you can get STARTED with online play
Dawn of War, my favorite RTS game, doesn't even have a complex build order. It's linear for every faction. And resource management? It's little points you capture and build on, once.

>>724102001
>best campaign
>worst multiplayer
Leveling heroes is super unfun because you can get ganked, lose your camp and items to a last-hit, and then die because you’re low. Heroes should just be a flat 6 all game. The base gameplay of WC3 was fun enough to compensate.

>>724100359
Imagine getting obliterated by a poojeet like, the RTS and FG communities are just embarrassing at this point

>>724116152
Zoomers will whine that they died to a drush after wasting their wood building 5 houses at the start of the game.

>>724116209
*with some exception

>>724115971
I agree. The lack of a "must play" RTS game certainly contributed to the demise of the genre. I would say that Starcraft II was good... but it was only good. It wasn't the "must play" title that the RTS genre needed at that time when MOBAs were on the rise and RTS was barely hanging on by a thread. That was truly the "make or break" time for the RTS genre, and SC2 simply wasn't good enough to save it. But again, I think part of that comes back to my original point about accessibility. RTS was always something of a niche genre because, at least when it comes to the multiplayer, it has a very high skill floor. It's just not the kind of game that your average, casual, mainstream gamer would ever pick up and play because there's just too much going on from start to finish. It's a much easier to sell to tell someone that they only have to control one character in a MOBA as opposed to 200 or so at a time in an RTS. That change alone will attract more people that would never otherwise touch an RTS

>>724116039
>>724113782
>no super wapon
>no t3
>super tame everything
Yep, it's nu-rts for the esports minded.

>>724099862 (OP)
They spent almost 2 million per current peak player. Impressive.

>>724116290
You don't have to build into heroes to win, that's why Warcraft 3 is superior to any of the MOBAs it spawned. So you don't creep effectively, that's fine. So you don't keep your hero alive, not the end of the world. The basics of playing Warcraft don't change, heroes just make it easier for you. You could go full-on hero build at the cost of units and get gigachad the Paladin or you could make an army designed to kill gigachad the paladin. It's just another wing in the rock-paper-scissors gameplay.

>>724116182
If you're not criticizing the amount of controlled units, what are you addressing?

Ah yeah that could work

All it needs is a

Blessed

For the game

>>724108297
Nobody is playing your "esports" RTS games. Not even you are playing those shitty multiplayer games. Shut the fuck up.
I was better than you at ever RTS we both played, btw.

How much is one

>>724109434
Good single player content. Against the Storm and they are billions did very well for what they are, despite their shortcomings.

>>724106781
Most people play tennis or go bowling to have fun. Losing does not matter. Drinks, laughs, socializing, exercise—that is the point. Winning or losing is secondary. Very few people actually pursue 1v1 sports seriously.

RTS games and fighting games are different. The game is the main focus. Socializing, if it exists at all, is secondary. Focus shifts. Winning becomes everything.

Fragile egos break. I have seen it even in casual sports, people hate losing. Every loss painfully reminds them of their own inadequacy. If you do not have the mental fortitude to accept that, competing becomes hell. Some people cannot handle it. They leave mid-session and text the next day saying they just could not stand losing.

Online matchmaking changes the game completely. You can be connected instantly to anyone, anywhere. Sports take much longer to set up a match, which slows down the feedback loop and makes the competitive environment less intense. It also gives egos time to recover, which changes the stakes psychologically.

>>724109834
Now you're just trolling.

>>724109862
>>724110008
Read, dumbfucks. Read.

>>724110824
Those people have a long and proud history of not playing RTS games. That's why the player numbers are shit and nobody is buying those esport titles.

>>724110006

Company og heroes vanilla route

>>724099862 (OP)
Once you played one, you essentially played them all.

>>724111029
That sort of copium only works for so long, at some point the realization that you cant measure up sets in and then, you end up quitting,

>>724116039
>all your infantry units look the same
>moving your army around feels like wading through mud
Wasn't having a good time with it.

>>724117390
>Once you've played [MOBA], you've played them all.
Don't be ludicrous. RTS are already massively different to each other, more than MOBAs.

>>724102884
Red Alert on Playstation is what introduced me to the RTS genre. The genre works just fine as long as you're not expecting Korean Starcraft autism.

Memo: https://urc.tauniverse.com/tasc.htm.

>>724113618
That was of thinking is abnormal to the masses. and in action even less so. The masses leans on something called "diffusion of responsibility" thats how they cope with being bad.


"Most people can’t face the full weight of their actions alone, so the mind invents a cushion. Diffusion of responsibility is the brain’s way of saying “not my fault, we all did it” or “someone else will handle it.” It’s normal behavior for the masses, which is why collective blame or shared losses feel easier to swallow.

In action, it’s rarer because acting alone forces the ego to confront consequences directly. That’s why true accountability—or situations where someone can’t hide behind the group—feels psychologically brutal for most people."

RTS games need to have a world map component like total war or like the war of the ring mode in the old lotr rts games. Having a map painter where you also take control of the battles is kino, dawn of war did this great but it needed a much bigger world map.

I promise you RTS games that do this and do it well people will actually play. Story mode and compfags have it wrong.

How do I legit get into RTS? There's so much things going on I get stressed. Build order, combination, tactics..just too much man.

>>724099862 (OP)
>So yeah we made the same 3 games for 20 years and people stopped buying them. How could this happen?

>>724117962
Just ignore tactics and make more units than the other guys. You'll steamroll 90% of players below the grandmaster level because most are too focused on microing their army around to move their camera back to their base.

>Stop-to-fire micro.
Why do people play this?

>>724117962
You have to memorize build orders, since the game is basically about executing your build order faster than your opponent
Things get tricky, of course, when your opponent actually knows what they’re doing. They might use a non standard build order to counter yours, which can mess up your muscle memory. But essentially, an RTS is just a race to build faster than your opponent

>>724117962
dont bother trying to play RTS multiplayer because you'll be playing against autists with 20 years of experience

>>724117984
Fifa finally stopped selling?

Old games didn't get replaced by newer one like pretty much every every genre, even fighting games still have a decent audience that follows the market.
So new RTS games have to compete with 20 year old games that have dedicated fanbases. This makes them a bad pick for shareholder driven devs/pubs.

>>724118382
>What are techs?
>What is travel time, and tradeoff time?
https://supcom.fandom.com/wiki/Economy#Time.

I just play chess nowadays.
It's the RTS of traditional games.
I used to think chess was a slow game, but the longest games people play online have 10 minutes of thinking time, but the most popular are the 3 minute or even 1 minute modes.
If you play 1 minute chess you literally need Starcraft level APM just to move your figures without losing time.

>>724118423
LMAO.

People are just copying the wrong games.

>>724118798
>turning chess into gookclick
Why

>Yearly releases
>some of then even good

I dunno man, RTS is doing a lot better than stuff like stealth or ARPGs

>>724119505
Stealth games had Hitman WOA
ARPGs had Path of Exile
RTS games have fucking Stormgate

>>724119740
Yeah all genres have their slop, doesn't mean you can't find good indie games

>>724119808
The last good RTS was Starcraft 2
RTS games peaked 20 years ago

>>724119740
A less retarded and disingenuous comparison would be if we wanna compare dogshit to dogshit.
Stealth Games have: asscreed odyssey
ARPGs have Torchlight 3

>>724119919
There aren't any good RTS games now though
You can't replace Stormgate with a better RTS game because there isn't one

>>724117051
chess is popular
maybe rts and fighting games are just boring

>>724119171
because he is a shitter who cannot play classical chess

>>724119851
Come on anon, Starcraft 2 only released like 5 years ago. Right? Right?????

I think it's funny when people suggest or state that either SC 1, or 2, is the best RTS.

>>724120693
how do you define "best"

>>724120776
What are we talking -- physics based gameplay; 3 dimensionality; land, sea, and air diversity:depth . . . ?

>>724109184

>>724121001
oh look its the supcom sperglord

>>724121035
Not an argument.

>>724121035
He tried his usual thread earlier lol. Surprised it took him so long to get here.

>>724121119
that's right

How can you say RTS is dead when I play c&c generals, BAR, and rusted warfare with my bros every week?

>>724121151
I haven't made a thread in a few days.

Post it.

>>724121216
Lmao, sure
>>724105314

>>724099862 (OP)
Gookclick is for gooks.

>>724121267
What's the problem with that image?

>>724121168
Because only negative threads get traction here.
you can't start a thread on /v/ saying I liked Aoe2, They are billions or something like that and say you had fun.

Is Dust Front ever coming out?

probably the single hardest genre to play competitively, from a mental and mechanical point of view

big sponsors all moved on to other genres, very little money left in the competitive scene

genre is notorious for being hard to balance and having slow patch cycles; leads to boring metas that aren't fun to watch or play

the developer that made the most successful RTS games of all time - Blizzard - is now lame and gay and being clowned on by everybody

>>724121362
https://arch.b4k.dev/v/search/image/Q0F7-E1cTJKDZaSS3nXSfg/

What's a comfy one if I just want to try out a new genre? No interest in competition.

>>724121498
Age of Mythology is pretty fun and casual.

>>724116495
That's entirely untrue. A strong hero decides fights. There's a huge difference between a level 3 Lich and a level 2 Lich, or a timing push with a level 4 DK vs a level 3 DK.

>>724121498
SC2 has the best RTS campaign and it's not even close

>>724121473
I mean, the material, not how much it's posted.

>>724121379
AoE2 is overrated.
I've never even seen the campaigns beyond the fourth or fifth one because all the maps are the same and I just get bored of building up my town.

>Ctrl+F
>Rise of Legends
>0
Why is this game so underrated and unknown? It's one of the extremely few RTS games with as much variety between factions both thematically and mechanically as Starcraft/Warcraft.

>>724113073
okay but then why are tryhard games like dotalikes or battleroyal popular? like 95% of the people jumping into a BR are just destined to be cannon fodder for the sweats

I honestly think it's just because you have to use your brain and no one wants to do that shit after coming home from school or work

shooters are just reflex and instinct

>>724121570
I think it'd be fun if I knew how to progress reasonably, and if it didn't have stop-to-attack gameplay, but maybe action queues like moving units to a line of commands.

>>724121570
The main thing that gets me is the insufferable AI with its perfect archer kite micro. The way they just scatter and run-shoot perfectly.
It's just gets so incredibly tiresome very quickly to fight against that shit.

>>724121565
It's not accurate.
1. High ground in Starcraft isn't that high.
2. The seige tank's shots can arc higher
3. Terrain blocks line of sight
4. No building is that small, no ramp that short, no cliff that steep

>>724121684
I dunno man, I just never saw the disc in stores. I picked up Rise of Nations at Walmart for like ten bucks as a kid.

any word on sanctuary: shattered sun?

game seems like a really good return for a proper supreme commander follow-up.

I really didn't enjoy ashes of singularity. don't know why.

>>724121570
see what I fucking mean?

>>724121684
I thought you were talking about Rise of Nations which actually was popular. I didn't know it had a sequel they fucked up the marketing.

>>724121818
Does the AI ever rush?

>>724121987
So does it have shot blocking at all?

>>724122217
Yeah, and it's like a completely different game.
RoN is still just tank vs bigger tank modern warfare.
Rise of Legends has 3 very unique fantasy/scifi factions.

>>724122127
Sanctuary looks like a decent supcom clone but the protracted dev cycle is a red flag to me that they're struggling to bring it all together. There's an alpha build out for backers I think, with a public demo/beta release planned for Q2 2026.

Ashes probably didn't stick for you because it's a usual Stardock slop game where the massive lack of polish and style left a bad taste in your mouth. Maybe it's gotten better since launch but it was a pretty weak effort at the time IMO

>>724122316
Yes? It's one of the worst parts of the game but it does.

>>724099862 (OP)
Literally this >>724102659, the skill gap is too much for zoomers which is why they stick to assfaggots. I wonder how Dawn of War 4 will hold up.

>>724122316
No, it has a reduced chance to hit for low ground vs high ground units, but terrain does not interact with regular attacks in the sense that they're treated like physical projectiles.

>>724123196
It has shot RNG?

>>724123265
Brood War has shot RNG

SC2 doesn't, but you still need high ground vision

>>724108876
You would also like Dawn of War 2 probably. It's a better RTS than 1. Less apm focused and more about outpositioning and outsmarting

Because it is the fate of any activity that a higher intellect can easily program for automation.

It will return once a developer realizes that these automatons, though superior in low thoughtform, can be accounted for and gamified by allowing higher thoughtform (humans) to control them enmasse across much larger battlefields.

The barrier to entry for programming a relatively effective CPU that can attain a high ELO rank is low, so the population that would in the past be interested in RTS have gravitated on to grander schemes.

So, age of empires for example: 1v1, you will never beat a properly programmed CPU. But assail that CPU with a rival of itself, burdened with an exponentially larger computational surface area the size of a continent or planet, while slowing down time and relegating the player to a more handsoff advisorial role specialized in 'grand scheme of things', should sufficiently handicap even the best current AI, while exemplifying the superiority of symbiotic of AI micro-ing commanded by the intangible thing that is true sentience.

TL;DR: Lonely AI versus AI advised by a sufficiently high IQ human = ?

But this too will be mirrored and parroted and clonified, ever continuing the IQ arms race

>>724102001
Fuck orcs.

if Eugen wasnt retarded, i feel theyd dominate the new age RTS scene. sadly, theyre french.

>>724123332
>you still need high ground vision
Or your shots can miss?

>>724123693
They removed shots missing entirely in SC2 but made it so units shooting down remain obscured without vision.

>>724121168
>the genre isn't dead because me and a handful of my friends still play it
I'm surprised... You seem too retarded for RTS games, anon.

>>724101110
Yea the only RTS games I liked were single player campaigns. Not interested in multiplayer, it's too complicated for me.

>>724108037
>online is still popular
How popular are we talking about it, can you even get in as a complete beginner

>>724117962
find a game that interests you a lot, then just play teamgames for fun. it's what i did until i found a fren who is similar in skill, now i play 1v1s with him and teamgames as well.

>>724102001
Online non custom maps would also be cool if solo heroes were even somewhat viable

>>724103667
Okay, but when you actually lose because of someone else it's 5000x worse than losing in a 1v1.

>>724099862 (OP)
cheaters vs pay2win vs tryhard vs meta vs cheaters....

>>724106781
Tennis is dying. It's being subsumed by pickleball boomers everywhere.

>>724123823
Are they 2D cliffs like AOE II?

>>724099862 (OP)
No reason to play new ones when
>Company of Heroes 1
>Total Annihilation
>Age of Empires 2
>C&C Generals
>Battle for Middle Earth 2
exist

>>724124849
This is the specific answer. RTS "fans" will play an extremely tiny amount of games, refuse to even consider anything else, and any and all new entries to the genre are considered unplayable garbage because they aren't /literally/ the exact same few games they have been playing for 15-20 years. There's no point getting excited for anything new because the community will play it for a week, will realize it's not SC1, AoE2, or WC3, and then quit to go play SC1, AoE2, and WC3 again and again and again.

>>724114264
>Give me a forced progression ladder instead
congrats you demoted RTS sales from a few thousand copies to few dozens

>>724124990
that or stormgate is garbage

>>724108608
OK but I legitimately only enjoy one type of RTS and it's very easy to fuck it up. The others inspire deep seated hate for how shit they are or are playable but not that enjoyable.

>>724124990
What do you think the solution is?

Do you think that a specific set of features would win the hearts of players? Newer RTS games haven't been particularly innovative, full, or good.

>>724099862 (OP)
RTS games are some of the most challenging, demanding games to program. People forget that Starcraft was an absolutely massive project back in its day. The idea that Unreal Engine slaves can make a good RTS nowadays is absolutely hilarious.

>>724125158
The core answer is to just ignore RTS fans and make RTS games that have nothing to do with your standard rotation. Total Warhammer sold so well that it reignited a dead setting. Stormgate did so poorly that it's being lambasted as another industry reminder to never appeal to RTS """enthusiasts""". As long as the game is just fun in general, you'll thrive.

>>724125272
I'm not sure recent RTS devs have asked a large demographic anything.

>>724125272
Maybe stormgate is garbage?

>>724123592
Yes

>>724111860
I personally like any setting as long as it's not set in a modern real world setting like all the WW2/War on Terror era games we already have. Alt history games like Red Alert are cool though.

>>724125541
This looks like a fucking episode from Thunderbolt Fantasy but with uglier puppets. Or a Robot Chicken skit.

>>724099862 (OP)
Spamming the same thread over and over and never NEVER play the games.

It wasn't bad but I don't think Age of Darkness did itself any favour trying to tie a traditional RTS style campaign to non-standard game design.

>>724125272
Stormgate wasn't appealing to RTS """enthusiasts""" it was appealing to obsessive Blizztards who will never ever hop games. It was a fucking retarded idea from the outset.

>>724125867
>Stormgate wasn't appealing to RTS """enthusiasts""" it was appealing to obsessive Blizztards who will never ever hop games. It was a fucking retarded idea from the outset.
I consider myself an "obsessive Blizztard", at least as far as their RTS games are concerned, but I was more than happy to jump ship to Stormgate since, you know, Blizzard doesn't even make RTS games anymore. The whole point behind Stormgate was that it was there to fill the void left by Blizzard abandoning the genre, but in the end it was just a bad game that apparently ended up appealing to no one.

>>724126137
Not that guy but I feel the same way as you. Stormgate looked kind of shitty from the outset, I just latched on in hopes that it would fill the SC2 shaped void in the genre. You can only replay the same game so many times before you yearn for something fresh, but similar.

>>724125867
blizztards funded stormgate and would be happy to move to a decent game. But SG doesn't do a single thing well and and that isn't an exaggeration. >>724124990 posts are from people who never played SG it's pure shit there is nothing to like.

$35 colony sim (with $90 DLC) somehow outdoes almost all the RTS games
RTS games obviously lacking something

>>724126669
This post just proves that real time tactics > real time strategy. Sorry RTSbros.

>>724126669
BW still hits 30k at primetime.

>>724099862 (OP)
vidya companies chase industry trends and RTS got eclipsed in popularity by other genres
also it's gotta be pretty hard to make a balanced RTS that isn't just a copy of a game that already exists

rts is a genre that much like fighting games, forces you to rely on yourself and ONLY yourself.
The modern mentally-addled retard can't handle facing reality that they suck or are at fault for issues, so team based games are more popular. RTS gave way to MOBAs due to that.
RTS still exist, they're just not AS popular, relatively they're miniscule, in reality, they're pretty much the same size as always. Your people are out there, new games won't gather them though since every new game is designed to be a mega-giga-nigga -hit.

>>724099862 (OP)
I have plenty of fun with sc2 co-op. Competitive ladder? Lmao no thanks.

When you design for autists you kill your game

>>724099862 (OP)
Nobody can beat AOE2 or Starcraft 1 still.
AOE4 still couldn't manage it.

>>724099892
ty bro but can you allow like a single good one to live

>>724127183
SG automates all of that.

>Another Starcraft clone FAILS
>WOAH RTS IZ DED!!!
Gookclikers are dead, good fucking riddance

>>724121168
Because /v/ is filled with Blizzard addicts and browns

>>724106950
Yes you can, you just need to swap out the factions. Also, you need a designated bad guy nation for that nationalistic wish fulfillment shit.
>US, EU, and Russia for starters
>ROC, Japan, and DPRK (no nukes, Japan says. Not sure if nuke taboo extends to vidya methinks)
Also:
>Cancelled
To what extent is the game engine, the plotscripting, the budget, the arts, and the audience are barriers to creating another RTS game? Anyways, sharing my wishlist:
>A RTS based on the immune system, pharmaceuticals, and infections
>A RTS based on Gate Jietai, but with Paladins, Wizards doing a three-way-war with the modern (or even, 20-minutes into the future) military
>An mspaint unit thread
Pretty much

How many people play Beyond All Reason?
Honestly, I enjoy watching selected matches on Youtube than playing multiplayer

>>724099862 (OP)
Too hard

>>724124990
Yep.
Best part is Company of Heroes 1 still has like 1/3rd to 1/2 of CoH2/3's playerbase, just like with Civ5 and Civ6.
Thats not even counting the number of CoH1 players not showing up on Steamcharts cuz they use mod launchers for the shitload of great mods the game has.

Woke faggot devs can fuck off too. 2 was fucking pay2win casualized slop and 3 was just woke and bad.

>>724108339
Tower Defense is boring.
I want to tell infantry, vehicles, and starships to go kill things.

Whenever people talk about things that used to be popular but aren't anymore like RTS they ignore the greater context of the gaming industry.
>there's so many millions more games available now that people aren't as likely to step outside their comfort zone or if they do they're comparatively much less likely to land on any particular thing due to the sheer number of options
>as the gaming industry has grown, the composition of that audience has not scaled linearly meaning if for example in 2000 50% of gamers had the potential to enjoy RTS to some extent, that number is now like 0.5% or something today
>lots of "midcore" gamers choose to follow the path of least resistance, so while a lot of them might potentially enjoy RTS if "forced" into playing them, they instead follow the path of least resistance set by the majority towards battle royales or whatever

>>724099943
compfagging contaminating the campaign balance is also another factor. there was only one set of rules for unit balance, so if the campaign map loaded the default, you'd get the version of units also used online.
> the campaign literally breaks because the tech tree changed, or unit limit changed, or the unit can't take as much damage as before
it was rare, but it did happen.

>>724101110
>I bought these games primarily for the single player aspect
the developers understood that not every buyer would have access to the online component, because that was the consequence of real life infrastructure at that time.
Dungeon Keeper 1 for instance had no online server to connect to, so any multiplayer had to be coordinated between the up to 4 players.

>>724102001
still the best map editor ever released for any game, period.

>>724109123
>We want to play a videogame without slaving to the "meta".
This.

Building walls wasn't the meta, but building them made the base feel complete.
Now you just get yelled at and banned from games if you try to have fun, because of this asshole right here: >>724099892

>>724121684
The timer was uncomfy. I refuse to enjoy it.

>>724122217
Oh wait.

>>724122632
If it's so easy to win in Dota then why did all the SC2 fags who tried to achieve anything in it fail and go hide in heroes of the storm instead?

>>724115157
>I hold Generals would be a good game no matter what it was about. Replace all three factions with generic politically correct stand-ins and it would still be a good game
Kill yourself you retarded fucking troon

>>724124990
>we made 300 bad RTS games yet people keep playing the good ones instead
This is clearly unfair. Thank you for showing me the light.

>>724125541
No, it's the children who are wrong.

>>724127183
>nothing is actually happening while the guy presses his 300 buttons
Those videos only impress people who don't play those games.

>>724128959
People are still playing the classics, it's because the new games are shit, because they focus on tourney fags instead of their core audience. Also because they are bad at making games, in Stormgate's case.

>>724107852
>skill expression
is there a bigger meme?

AoE 2 Definitive and Dawn of War Dark Crusade (Not the dogshit recent remaster) are basically the best RTS games that a normie can still learn and play.

>>724112204
I see you trying to sneak Tempest Rising in there.

>>724115825
Thanks anon, I’ll check this out. It looks comfy.

>Aoe4
seeing gameplay and there sems to be more economy than fighting with your military like in 2

>>724099862 (OP)
They tried way too hard to cater to the esports crowd.
Old RTS games were catering to many different types of players
>historyfags who were into it to see how a culture would be portrayed in the game or see how each faction evolves to a lesser extend
>Character-design/art fags who were interested in all the different factions and how they all differ from each other with unique buildings and units. A strong art direction is vital for this
>Comfyfags who just wanna build slowly and see their city grow without any major pressure from enemies or tryhard players
>And competitive players
After the 2000s, the vast majority of RTS would focus too much on the esport aspect or would half ass many of these other aspects. AOE3 would be a good example of a game in which art direction was utter dogshit with so many units that looked visually redundant.

>>724099862 (OP)
I've been trying to play RTS with my nephew but he doesn't understand that he needs to keep going at all times.
I believe the answer to your question OP is that people can't chill out with RTS.

>>724099862 (OP)
Same reason other genres or games die: focus on esports/competitive multiplayer

>>724114781
>I miss Warzone 2100
actually open source and completely free now but obviously multiplayer is dead

> Shattered Galaxy
great music, excellent concept of an MMO where the player can control more than one character but ultimately not a good combination with korea-tier grinding bullshit... oh, and nexon. fuck nexon.

>>724099862 (OP)
It died because there are other games that do things better.
If you want to build you go for city builders. Ruling? Grand strategy or other lower scale settings. Controling units? Total war, world of tanks and that assortment of games. Controling A unit? Mobas. The playerbase fractured and the only people left are the ones that only know of Starcraft-esque games that became boring for most games.

>>724105491
Anon stop making t3 mexes while 2 other fronts collapse you fucking bastard.

>>724127068
>games with extremely high skill floors are unpopular
>this is because people don't like 1v1
>don't look at the fact that 2v2 in these games is a thing

I'd rather play 4x and be relaxed than be stressed the fuck out trying to micromanage a hundred units as fast as possible in a rts

>>724114781
>>724132493
Warzone 2100 is alive and well with both an active community and continuous development, However you will find out that the most "active" and vocal players on the online scene are shithead exclusionary eastern europeans who think that they know the game better than anyone despite only playing 5vs5 "NTW" games which basically strips out a huge chunk of the game's depth.

These fucking faggots try and bully anyone (including the devs) out of the community who don't think the way they play the game should dictate the games development or who even simply disagree with them on the state of the game by calling them casuals or non-players and then continuously harassing them on the official WZ discord and their own WZ discord. Even going so far as to threaten to pull the plug on the (then recently added and then only) autohost system that made games for players who can't host games themselves without reliance on another player if they didn't get their way on wrestling control over the games development into their hands.

>>724110291
Seriously, instead of blowing 40m on shartgate you could spend a few millions polishing up BAR, advertising it a little and it could be the next big thing among casuals with those potential massive playercount battles and actually fun PvE mode.

>>724125541
>someone greenlit HW3 cinematics
>someone greenlit SG cinematics
God is dead.

for me it was the ridiculous obsession with clicks per minute that ruined it

watching multiplayer games and seeing some dude spamming left click on a drone worker got really tiring after a while