Thread 724124758

Gamers seem to have an aversion to wanting to see or play as Native Americans in games.

>>724124758 (OP)
Native americans gained the ability to put up a lawsuit if a native american in a game is a misrepresentation of their tribe/its close enough that it resembles their tribe which also can loop back into being misrepresentation.
Which is why you just saw them all disappear from videogames

Native Americans aren’t real.

Nope, turns out there isnt a lot of them and people want to play with what they look like

>>724124758 (OP)
Fuck you talking about? I liked Gun and AC3.

>>724124758 (OP)
The new Turok is going to suck.

It is the devs who got aversion to putting them into games, because the risk of scandals like >>724124882 said is more trouble than it is worth these days.

>>724124758 (OP)
One of the best games ever has a Cherokee protagonist.
>Tommy is Cherokee
>played by Michael Greyeyes, a Cree
>he and Crystle Lightning, who played Jen, were directed to talk more white
>grandfather, voiced by John William Galt (a white man), was given the freedom to injun it up

>>724124758 (OP)
Killer instinct removing the "chief" from chief thunder was very goofy

>>724124758 (OP)
one of the races gamers actually like

>>724124758 (OP)
Not true, at least not for me.
The original Prey was great and Prey 2 is good but not what I wanted (more Native Americans in space)

>>724124882
NAs can also legally occupy any government building that's gone unused longer than a few years.

>>724124892
Native Americans are basically Asians

Reminder that the Cree nation complained about Poundmaker in Civilization 6, and claimed that it is "harmful" and "dangerous" to portray native Americans as imperialists even in a video game.

>>724124758 (OP)
War paint is gay no matter the race or culture.

>>724125615
Its not scandals, they can actually start up lawsuits really easily.
The best you can do is hire a bunch of random native americans from a tribe to design every single facet of a character/what they do and then get them all to agree to allow it after that.
Which is a lot of effort.

>>724126215
they killed neighbouring tribes tho

>>724126617
That doesnt matter because the narrative says he didn't and that he and all other tribes were peaceful harbingers of the land before the white devil came.

>>724124758 (OP)
There's way too much hassle and baggage that comes with including them.
>>724125767
What does it sound like when they talk indian

>>724126617
>>724126805
Poundmaker did promote diplomacy and peaceful coexistence, but it was only because during the rule of previous chief Big Bear the Cree had gotten their shit pushed in hard by the Blackfoot Confederacy in a war that the Cree started because they perceived the Blackfoot as weak and tried to grab their lands.

>>724124758 (OP)
Assassin's Creed 3.
And the protag was half Mohawk on his mother's side + severely autistic.

>>724127291
Came to post this.

I think the Native American aesthetic is sick and I wished there were more works that used native mythology and folklore in the setting.

>>724124758 (OP)
Turok was not a good game.

I don't think it's that they don't want to, in fact, prey was pretty fondly remembered for it's pretty sweet representation even if it was a bit hammy.
The issue is that no one wants to deal with fucking tribal agents and their fucking faggy horseshit. I live in a state with large reservation populaces and they demand insane cuts of any sort of movie or TV show productions they're in, so, eh.

>>724124758 (OP)
That's really good art right there, I've never played AC3 though. It sucks that new Turok game is most likely going to be complete shit. I'm probably in the minority, but I just want to get lost again and jump around huge jungles and caves again. Turok 1 is one of my go to games for feeling cozy and relaxing.

Rainbow Six Siege has thunderbird

she’s hot

>>724124758 (OP)
They are surprisingly common in fighting games granted they are usually very Flanderized.

>>724124758 (OP)
There isn't that much of a demand. AND what anon says: >>724124882

AND even if you do EVERYTHING perfectly, you're at high risk of some crazy DEI fuckers looking for funding to go headhunting as we've already seen with some of the Japanese shit.

>>724127198
The actual truth of the situation doesn't matter. You see people complaining about portraying the goddam Aztecs as imperialists.

What about TUROK: DINOSAUR HUNTER?

>>724124882
so what happens if you just say "it's a fictional tribe, it's not yours"?

>>724127358
You're going to have to pushback against the lunatics if you want that. They've successfully scared the Japanese away from using their own culture that MIGHT be mistaken for the wrong tribe.

Hell, just look at how often the Okinawan shit gets reassigned to african as it is.

>>724124758 (OP)
ENTER
https://youtu.be/vWDs4rhsgfU

>>724124758 (OP)
what >>724124882 said.

Shame too. Chief Thunder is great and fuckin rules. Never seen anyone rag on Nightwolf either.
The natives can be fucking cunts in Colonization though.

>>724128030
They can still sue, and unless your shit is so fictional that their hand picked judge in the most lib jurisdiction in america throws it out pretrial, you're on the hook for a big, dumb expensive lawsuit, funded by Soros AND US federal funds

>>724128030
Nothing. That's why we almost always get fictional tribes like in Second Son.

>>724124758 (OP)
I want to play as Danielle again.

>>724128127
>The natives can be fucking cunts in Colonization though.
As they SHOULD. But Colonization as in the first sid meyers game is hilarious t o me, because they wanted to avoid african slavery, but STILL included the mechanisims using native americans. And they were absolutely aware of it, because they had fucks like Sepulvida as founding fathers, and he literally has a goddam whip in his pic.

>>724125017
Ironically, most of the people I see who want to play as them, are German.

>>724128127
>>724128195
Colonization portrays a really sanitized and idealized picture of the native-settler relations too, to be fair. Once you get friendly with the native tribes, it portrays absorbing natives into colonies as a mutually beneficial process with no downsides for either group.

Picrel are a fairly decent Civ though. Great in the early game and if you snowball it hard enough it makes a good Liberty Civ.

>>724124758 (OP)
Pardon me but that is Aragorn, son of Arathorn

Not true.

>>724128302
Europe had a lot of wild west comics from the perspective or really romanticized native Americans, and euroboomers fucking loved them as kids.

Thread theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yau8nHOXhug

>>724128127
Dude, Thunder's revamp was made with great effort to make sure the Nez Perce were involved from beginning to end

>>724128629
>DE JONGE HOOFDMAN
hitler dood

>>724124758 (OP)
Good
Those bloodthirsty savages deserved what happened to them

>>724128420
Natives of Civ4 are pretty decent early game war civ too, if you can bait the enemy into killing it's army against turtled up archers. Their Dog Soldiers are good too since they are slightly better axemen that don't require any resources to build, so Dog Soldier rush is always a consistent strategy regardless of spawn.

>>724126215
This nigger is easy mode diplo victory 200 turns in wtf. Find a casual lobby and farm diplo points before anyone conquers you.

>>724124882
>Native americans gained the ability to put up a lawsuit if a native american in a game is a misrepresentation of their tribe/its close enough that it resembles their tribe which also can loop back into being misrepresentation
That sounds based NGL

I just want more aztecs man. Like the blood sacrifice kind.

I STAND READY

>>724124758 (OP)
Explain Turok or Tommy from Prey

>>724124882
>>724125615
>>724126037
>>724127837
>>724128030
This is just made up horseshit, so such law exists.

>>724127953
Most people bitching about the Aztec in either direction have no idea what they're talking about, but strictly speaking, the Aztec actually weren't imperalistic, but hegemonic

They were militaristic conquerors, but didn't actually directly govern the places they took over, leaving existing kings, laws, customs etc in place most of the time: The only especially widespread demands or interference they had over their empire was taxation (which was predominately economic goods and labor or military service, demands of captives as slaves or sacrifices were rare: most of those were taken DURING conquests, not from existing subjects) and so that states within it didn't block roads and would provide military aid, alongside some other basic obligations. Hell, vassal states/"strategic" provinces didn't even technically pay taxes, though they did send "gifts" at times

This is the actual reason Cortes got allies against them rather then them doing sacrifices (which everyone in the region did) or them being oppressive (which as I said, they weren't), because this system left subjects with their own political identity, agency, and interests, enabling opportunistic side switching, arranged coups, secession etc. Each of the states which allied with Cortes had their own distinct motives, for say Tlaxcala resentment was a legit factor (but they also weren't even an Aztec subject), but for most it really was just them switching late when Tenochtitlan was fucked anyways and them having more to gain and less to lose by switching sides

See pastebin.com/h18M28BR + arch.b4k.dev/v/thread/640670498/#640679139 + desuarchive.org/his/thread/16781148/#16781964 for more info

>>724129468
I do too but your pic is inaccurate as hell, see mine. I'll dump some Mesoamerican games for you, >>724124758 (OP) and >>724127358 in a bit

1/?

I'd be insulted if I was called indian too

>>724129761
This dude is definitely ride or die on a boat in xochimilcho.

I think it's fucked that we demand Tomb Raider be nerfed on behalf of people who aren't even complaining, but they aren't depicting any of the actual cool shit, just ambiguous generic "native' crap.

>>724129761
Nobody actually knows what was going on there before the Spanish landed because they were too stupid to write anything down. You can post your romantic fairy tales of Aztec utopia though if it makes you feel good.

>>724129761
>1/?
Shut the fuck up.

>>724129761
Jaguar pajamas look fucking retarded. There is no way you could put them into any fictional work and expect people to take them serious.

Only partially on topic but I felt Prey 2005 was a better prequel, in spirit at least, to the Turok series than Turok Evolution was. Rename the kid to Tal'set and this could be the story of how he gains appreciation for his heritage and uses these newfound gifts to become the Turok of legend.

>>724124882
I get where they're coming from but my opinion has always been that it's best for your culture to have media presence, even if slightly bastardized, which will in turn draw attention to the historical version. There's probably egyptians who don't like mummies being classic horror monsters but that's also part of what makes people want to learn the culture in the first place.
There's a lot of museums dedicated to different cultures throughout history. The ones with actual foot traffic are the ones whose culture still holds some significance.

>>724129761
No. The half naked tribals with colorful feathers is cool

>>724129761
cont:

>>724130218
You're very stupid or very ignorant, Mesoamerica is one of only 3 places on the planet that independently invented true writing... the Aztec in particular arguably did not have true writing, but "true" or not, they had books and royal libraries which included tax documentation. We have surviving documentation on Aztec taxes like the Codex Mendoza, Matricula de Tributos, the Paso y Troncoso etc ranging from copies of pre-contact tax rolls to Spanish recorded ones, and tax demands of captives for slavery or sacrifices is very, very rarely lited.

For example demands of captives as taxes shows up only a single time in the Codex Mendoza (see it yourself:
https://codicemendoza.inah.gob.mx/index.php?lang=spanish&folio_number=48&type=r&section=m) and even then it's a demand for Tepeacac to provide captured soldiers from Tlaxcala and it's allies, not for Tepeacac to supply it's own people. In other words, it was an indirect demand for Tepeacac to wage war against Tlaxcala.

In general, we know a lot more about the Aztec then most people realize, even just the Florentine Codex is 2000+ pages on their society and customs

>>724129468
>>724127358
>>724124758 (OP)
And here's some Mesoamerican vidya:

>Aztez: curayzee 2d action game with pseudo rougelike/lite aspects and strategy gameplay in the overworld, well researched but very stylized aztec theme
>Tlatoani: Aztec cities: Very well researched impressions games style isometric citybuilder, Early Access
>Expeditions Conquistador: tactical RPG with visual novel/choose your own adventure style branching narrative. authenticity is kinda eh but it's a good game
>Sixth Sun (saveslothstudio): Metroidvania with a Mesoamerican codex themed art style. Upcoming, looks very cool
>Plus Ultra Legado: Metroidvania where you play as a Conquistador, seems moderately well researched, Upcoming.
>Ancient Tale: ixkik' (Roddanchill), 3d action/adventure game with a Maya theme, looks pretty promising, Upcoming

2/?

>>724124882
Most media will do the superficial feather in hair, some beads and tribal outfit and call it a day. The fact of the matter is most people do not care to learn about any tribe history, even people in the goddamn tribe.

>>724130891
I think it's because it's like muslims where they consider most fiction and entertainment media as juvenile, crass or just downright abhorrent so being portrayed in it is considered insulting as religion or tribal identity is supposed to be treated with respect and sincerity. Doesn't help that the largest entertainment production, Hollywood, is run by jews.

>>724131024
>>724129468
>>724127358
>>724124758 (OP)
cont:

>Pawarumi: neon-punk mesoamerican futurist spaceship shoot em up game. Seems very loose in terms of cultural influences but neat
>KAIBIL: 2d RPG focusing on the Maya in the early colonial period, haven't given it a close look yet (Upcoming)
>Kotal Kahn in MKX and MK11: Actually a pretty solid adaptation of the Aztec war god Huitzilopochtli, if given slack since MK is all about 80s style tropes
>Marlow Briggs and the Mask of Death: nonsense n terms of the historical stuff but it is a weirdly competent God of War clone you can buy for like 99 cents
>Flower Wars (Roblox, by flowerwars1438): I don't know shit about Roblox but seems good
>Mesoamerica Universalis: Abandoned EU4 overhaul, was being worked on by archeologists
>The Medieval 2 Total War mod "Rise of the Quetzal" and the Age of Mythology "The Return of the Gods" mod: Seems decent, haven't given them a close look
>Pokemon Sage: Fangame made by /vp/ with a latin american theme. Questionable Mesoamerican cultural elements but very high quality, has a demo but isn't finished
>Tlalocmon (Digimon): VERY well researched with subtle iconography, even if visually it doesn't look it at a glance

>>724130937
It CAN be cool if done tastefully, but 99% of the time it looks like dirty primitive trash, because that's what it's trying to look like. Also, there is actual Mesoamerican fashion (see pic) that looks closer to that while also looking nicer at the same time you could go with. Or, you know, actual tribes in Brazil and shit rather then Mesoamerican civilizations.

>>724128132
>>724128127
>>724129404
>>724130891
see >>724129761 re: that law

3/?

>>724131412
Yeah, I certainly get that perspective of wanting one's culture to be viewed with respect but I think it's an inevitability of the culture being popular in the first place. You take the good with the bad. Some are going to be respectful, some are going to take the cooler surface level elements and make something fun, some are just going to be outright insulating. Best case scenario the insulting stuff isn't the most popular. In either case, this inevitability leads to people wanting to learn about the culture properly.

>>724131412
Native Americans arent going to threaten to chop your head off and kill children for depicting some pedophiliac prophet in media though. Even Christians don’t do that.

>>724131737
Not to sound like I'm defending it but it's one thing to talk about someone's culture or how its depicted in media but religion is usually where the line is drawn. Prince of Persia didn't get death threats just because the devs thought the culture was interesting but also it doesn't deal with any religious elements.
Even when it comes to the likes of ancient greek or egyptian mythology, we only get away with using those gods like one would superheroes and supervillains because we call it mythology rather than a religion.

>>724131024
>even just the Florentine Codex is 2000+ pages on their society and customs
Written by the Spanish. You have nothing. They did not write.

Every other culture from history worldwide gets chopped up and commercialized into an aesthetic and a few stereotypes. The general audience dont care about accuracy. Resisting this process is fine of course but generally all it does it create a chilling effect that has the culture become untouchable for media entirely.
Here is a mickey with a peace pipe.

>>724124758 (OP)
depictions of native americans don't need cultural sensitivity, they need an awesome button
you got a brave riding a bear while dual-wielding tomahawks? Light those tomahawks on fire
t.1/4 Chumash

>>724132205
South Park, Family Guy, Simpsons and so many other shows either have Jesus Christ himself as a side character and poke fun at Christianity. This is indeed making fun of the religion but maybe a small minority of Christians watching will care or show any reaction to it. If South Park however again, did something as mundane as show Muhammad on a poster then muslims all over would be legitimately irate. Theres a clear difference there.

>>724132670
Assassin's Creed 3: Tyranny of King Washington
You get three superpowers
>Wolf turns you invisible for stealth
>Bear gives you super strength to cause earthquakes
>Eagle let's you to fly to anywhere you want in an instant

>>724132886
neat. Slept on AC3 because I heard the ending is ancient aliens need human souls to power their shit because they can't figure out this infernal alternating current

>>724124758 (OP)
wtf? i love native americans and will always pick them in a game

>>724132696
Like I said I'm not defending that behavior. But within the context of an outsider depicting someone else's culture, dealing with religion is trickier. In those examples it's people from christian countries depicting Christ. I have to wonder how many people on here would lose their shit if some indian game ripping off God of War ended with impaling Jesus with his own cross.

>>724129761
No amount of autistic /his/-seething will make Apocalypto uncool.

>>724124892
But I'm right here bro

>>724132961
EVERY AC game has that shit in it, just ignore the parts set outside of the "simulation" aka whatever the fuck time period/flavor of assassin you're inhabiting

>>724128179
Acclaim had a whole family for Joshua in the comics, only for 3 to replace them with two different siblings. Also redesigning Adon. Oddly the Council of Voices was from these comics to end up in 3. The comics don't seem all too great, but it kinda sucks to throw away some backstory and characters that could had worked in 3. Not sure why we got a prequel reboot and not Turok 4 considering how 3 ends.

>>724124758 (OP)
If that's true then why did I ignore Prey because they ditched Tommy from Prey?

>>724132961
Nah.
AC 3 and its ending just ride on "2012 end of the world" crap and drop the ball badly but otherwise AC 3 itself is a cool action game.
The King Washington DLC just outright makes you a superpowered Mohawk freedom fighter schizo.

I genuinely like tribal shit as long theh actually portray them as tribal shit. It's an exotic and cool aesthetic imo. Which bogs my why blacks are the only people being forced into these other roles.
You don't see some medieval knight being some maori or aztec guy do you? It has to be some black or sometimes chinese dude/girl.

>>724135094
maoris are in on the same grift as amerindians. you want something that looks Polynesian in your game? better pay up. and then pay up again when a bit of the tribe splinters off and says they never agreed to the first payment so now you have to pay them separately. and then pay up again when it happens again

>>724135292
So you are saying people use blacks as stand ins for exotic natives because other natives are too expensive to deal with?

>>724124758 (OP)
why would anyone want to play as a loser

I like Turok. Fucking sucks we can't have stories about Indians anymore because someone would get offended and sue someone.

here's the thing: I don't really care about authenticity in this case, just let me indulge in my racist fantasy!
https://youtu.be/JQUm7YwmLek

indians lost and got raped

>>724124892
I wish toxotrannies weren't real.

>>724133151
>Latinx
He asked for real native Americans.

>>724137526
that's pre-latinx mesoamericans

>>724137597
You will never be true Americans. You are brown at only 4 foot tall.