Thread 724496338

Were old games really better?

Depends on the game.

Why was Kyle Katarn, a Jedi, using force lightning?

op gave his cousin head op gave his cousin head

>>724496338 (OP)
Why is Jedi OutCast/Academy and Movie Battles the only games with proper lightsaber combat? It actually takes some skill to deflect blaster fire and duel enemies.

>>724496459
He wanted to stop the Empire remnants.

>>724496338 (OP)
Yes.

>>724496605
>It actually takes some skill to deflect blaster fire
in vanilla?
you just point your coursor at the enemy and ??? you win

>>724496459
because he was dope

>>724496459
In-lore, he was going through severe emotions after thinking he lost his GF. In-design, they just wanted to let players have more variety of force powers.

>>724496338 (OP)
yes
little robot companion is gay
red head guy is gay
his trainer is gay

>>724496338 (OP)
depends
2005-2012 era was the worst era for vidya. Every genre of value like strategy games or crpgs died there and there was nothing but casualized moviegame, brown slop for consolefags.
Golden era was 1995-2004 where devs wanted to create cool stuff and could due to tech and experience being there
Before it there was a Caveman era where devs were handicapped by lack of tech and experience

Current industry is much, much, much better than that dreadful era of brown and bloom console shooters. Xbox360/ps3 were an absolute blight on this industry

yes

>>724496459
because of player agency allowed players to take kyle to the dark side

>>724496338 (OP)
Graphics:
>then
meh
>now
nice

BGM
>then
nice
>now
nice

Optimization
>then
nice
>now
meh

Storytelling
>then
nice
>now
mid

Fun
>then
nice
>now
mid

Cost per Fun
>then
mid
>now
meh

Bonus points: Finished product
>then
nice
>now
mid

It wouldn't let me post without an image.

>>724496876
Current industry is the result of 2005-2012 mindset you dummy

in some ways. it depends on how you feel about the standarization of every genre. we used to get unique systems for navigating the world in early 3D games. then slowly everything melted together and the current twinstick setup took over. In some ways, it's good. In other ways, we lost the uniqueness. Resident Evil franchise is good look at the evolution of 3D gaming as it adopted current trends to its formula over and over. Sometimes it was great, sometimes it wasn't. there's no big game today that plays like the original games. whether that's good or bad is up to you.

>>724497007
Optimisation was meh back then too. We just have the luxury of massively overpowered tech compared with what they had.

Sure there are individual games from the era that were actually good. But slop isnt new.

>>724496338 (OP)
yes

>>724496338 (OP)
Yes. More focus on fun gameplay rather than being a movie.
Jedi Outcast is a good example.

>>724496338 (OP)
No, both games are good.

>>724497041
no, it isn't
Consoles died
Linear moviegames died
Revival of the superior game genres happened like multitude of strategy games of every type and crpgs which are all thriving
Instead of there being only AAA slop, AA and Indies are everywhere

Vidya industry is in a much better shape now

>>724496876
2005-2012 was the 3d action game era it was good, you shouldn't have just consoomed.

>>724497237
Its never been as bad as it is now. DLSS and fram gen has completely ruined game devlopers. Before, even in the worse circumstances, they put in an actual attempt to optimize. Now no one gives a shit.

>>724496338 (OP)
the good old games are better than 99% of games released in current year, just like they were better than 99% of games released in the year they came out

>>724497518
>the 3d action game era
slop

>>724496338 (OP)
No, the good games stood out and are the only ones you hear about.

Go on steam now and you'll find thousands upon thousands of dogshit game flooding the marketplace, but we had that back then too, we didn't have indie slop back then, we had THQ and a billion IP tie in games that were clones of other games

>>724496876
Not true at all. You seem to think everything from 2005-12 was just The Last of Us and Call of Duty. That timespan has so many great games.

>>724496338 (OP)
Jedi Outcast is one of the best games of all time and no game has done better lightsaber combat since then, so yes

>>724497237
>But slop isnt new.
You're not wrong, but I feel that people with autism vs now is diverged. Take Rollercoaster Tycoon, Doom>Duke Nukem Z axis view, Far Cry, and so on. Really it depends what's considered old, but then you look at all the games in the last 10 years and really, nothing new has made a breakthrough that made you go "Oh wow! HOLY SHIT NIGGA CHECK THAT SHIT OUT!" It's like we've reached the epitome of graphical simulation and the only thing left is optimization;
>if my potato can't run it I wont play it
>if I can't play it I wont buy it
>if I wont buy it the devs don't make money
>if the devs don't make money the market is shit
>mind as well, let's make slop gacha
>PNG shooting simulator takes as much resources as a 3D game
I'm looking at you Azur Lane

>>724496338 (OP)
>Were old games really better?
depends on the game but in the case of your image yes, older star wars games were better.

>>724496459
People say a bunch of shit but back during the Jedi Knight games, the Force in Star Wars was much more fluid. A Jedi could draw on it to harm and hurt in equal measure, with intense, painful application drawing from negative emotions that are associated with the Dark Side.

So like Luke shooting some Force Lightning wouldn't be no no back then. It just meant he was drawing on emotions and power that, if abused, could pull one toward the Dark Side of the Force.

Nowadays it's more good/bad guy coded on what you can and can't do.

>>724496338 (OP)
The Jedi Knight games were pretty good. The nuJedi duology is decent but not quite as good.

However the "dude he's a JEDI but he also uses FORCE LIGHTING like a SITH he's so cool and edgy he can tap into both!!!" shit is completely anti Star Wars and goes against its entire philosophy. What's the point of having a firm conviction in either the jedi or sith teachings when you can just be an englighted centrist fencesitter?

>>724497908
Pretty much this. It's why the "force taser" was made in the old books, to try and make a good guy lightning power but thankfully it didn't go further than that from what I've seen.

>>724497957
Makes for fun gameplay.

>>724496338 (OP)
ooh jedi outcast, i remember playing ctf without guns kicking everybody to death. <TNR>thedrunkendwarf, kurein, some players i remember

>>724496605
>skill
I got hundreds of hours in Jedi Knight 2 and JKA. That's just an illusion, you literally point your cursor in the direction and your good. For dueling, it's just spacing and hitbox managment. What makes the combat feel good is that the lightsaber in JK is powerful. It cuts through enemies and kills in typically just one-two solid hits for most fodder enemies.

It also cuts the environment and reacts like a laser sword would to your monkey mind.

>>724496338 (OP)
The answer to this is always yes.

I think the answer is freedom, responsiveness, visual and movement clarity.

Most AAA games these days everything is "magnetized". You auto stick to enemies, you auto correct positioning, combat is braindead simplified.

Your movement is made heavy and weighted in new games to make it feel "realistic". Where as with old games movement was quick and snappy as fuck. You could move your character around with complete freedom but it made your character look goofy as fuck. You can turn a full 180° instantly. Go watch someone playing JK2 or any games from that era and how the character moves. Then watch a AAA game. The delayed purposely slow movement.

Not really. It's more that games have stagnated in the last 15 years and despite being more photorealistic and maybe larger (in a shallow way), games today pretty much play the same as they did by 2010 and haven't improved in any meaningful way.

>>724496338 (OP)
the guy on the right just wields a bat with glowy bits cause it can't cut anything.

>>724497908
Did people forget that Luke used Force Choke in the movie?

>>724496338 (OP)
I personally hate how modern AAA games just facescan real people and make them characters instead of making an original character.

>>724498384
>cause it can't cut anything.
It couldn't in the first game, it cuts through in the second.

>>724498592
>I personally hate how modern AAA games just facescan real people and make them characters instead of making an original character.
"modern AAA games"
nigger this has been the case in videogames for over 20 years, Kyle Katarn is a direct scan of a real guy

>>724496338 (OP)
Nah.

We have this argument every ten years when the newest generation of /v/ users grows out of teenager years and starts to either grow out of vidya or realize that what they experience then feels different to now.

You have about 30 years of vidya hits during a time where the industry was rapidly evolving every two-three years in fidelity and game design. Nowadays you have developed markets of AAA and Indie games with a new AA market starting to return. The stagnation is real because games now take 4 years to develop on the AAA end, and Indie teams are still hundreds of one man - small team efforts and we haven't these those teams condense into studios yet.

In ten years we'll have this same exact conversation.

>>724497643
>RE5
>God Hand
>NGII
>Demon Souls
>Vanquish
These are not slop.

>>724498585
People forget that the second Death Star was the one with the Bothans when Rogue One gets brought up. Nobody pays attention to shit.

>>724497957
because it's star wars canon? luke literally force chokes some guards to death in return of the jedi and also chimps out and uses his rage to defeat vader. the point is you can always turn back from the bad path and there's always the risk of turning away from the good path

>>724498585
I think most people watching RotJ don't even realize he does that. It takes all of two seconds, the guards back away immediately, and you don't see them keel over dead but instead one of them just kinda slumps against the wall. It's nowhere near as noticeable as if he had shot lightning at them or they had fallen over dead on the spot.

>>724497957
Kyle almost fell to the dark side in Outcast. It makes sense that he'd dabble in dark side powers.

>>724498753
Sorry should of clarified.
Big time actor face scans.

>>724498849
...most of that is really sloppy and just there to appeal to Platinum fanboys. Like Demon Souls is arguably the only one with real soul and unique ideas, and that led to a whole genre of games that play exactly like it.

>>724497518
>>724497643
>THUG2 came out 2004
Almost there. I think Skyrim came out 2011

>>724498345
>stagnated
They stagnated in that they failed to innovate and improve, but they have also become actively enshittified in so many different ways. As a result, they ARE worse than they were.

>>724499106
You don't like games you like rpgslop, your the reason new games suck.

>>724498073
Speaking of strange Force powers, I remember in Jedi Knight 1 Jerec had the power to shoot a big ball of energy at you, it was called “Force Destruction”

>>724499106
>Demon Souls is arguably the only one with real soul and unique ideas
RE5 may be building on an idea, it did perfect it and it hasn't been copied since. Vanquish copies what? I can agree it looks bad. God Hand is perfect. Ninja Gaiden II is the most exhilarating experience on the highest difficulty. And I forgot to add DMCIII to the list.

>>724499078
>>724497957
The answer is right here >>724497908. Lucas wasn't very clear in the OT, and even in the PT it was still a debate if it was just Jedi practices coaxing students to use safer applications of the Force. It wasn't until around the Clone Wars series that the Force became so heavily polarized and specific abilities became locked off from either style of Force user.

>>724498849
these are trash
anyone not playing crpgs and strategy games is a pleb

>>724496338 (OP)
>I LOVE VIDEO GAMES!!! I want to make something I would want to play as a kid!
>I HATE VIDEO GAMES!!! I WANNA WORK IN HOLLYWOOD BUT I HAVE NO CHOICE!!! I still feel like Im better than you losers so Im gonna lecture your asses! Oh and Im a woman now!

>>724496338 (OP)
Depends on how you look at it. Triple A games where objectively better pre 2016 and even earlier. Indie games are often the same quality as older triple A games. If you mostly play indie games, then gaming is still pretty fun. If you only play triple A, gaming feels dead to you. So I guess you could say it’s true from a certain point of view

>>724499053
It was less of a spectacle, no doubt. But it was still a "dark side" power. I like the idea that Jedis can tap into all this shit they just choose not to because they have standards or are taught not to.

>>724499178
>>724499354

character action games are about the most goyslop genre next to COD-inspired shooters.

>>724496459
Because he was Kyle Motherfucking Kartan!

>>724496459
Mary Sue Man who stole the death star plans, is a mercenary, bff with Luke, and can use light and darkside powers

>>724499552
Here comes the I Hate Everything fag leaping to whine about Indie games too.

>>724499464
those are garbo wiki games that take no skill. just knowledge about dumb shit. at least action games actually test skill to some degree

>>724497908
Wtf are you talking about faggot zoomer
Go read 20 years of Star Wars books gay little dweeb

>>724499561
TCW Obi-Wan used force crush to destroy two commando droids. He never uses it on organic foes.

>>724499603
cod has better gameplay than crpg and strategy games. you got filtered so you're coping

>>724496459
"Remember, abilities aren't good or evil, its how you use them"
Maybe that's a cop out when talking about a force power whose only use is frying motherfuckers, but that's a direct quote from the man himself
I guess you could lightning as a defibrillator

>>724499552
>Indie games are often the same quality as older triple A games.
Only 1 in 10,000 indies is the same quality as older triple A games. The other 9999 indies are in the ocean of Steam indie shovelware garbage buried and forgotten because nobody plays them and nobody cares that they failed, they're just nothing. Successful indies are a massive exception.

>>724499354
>RE5 may be building on an idea, it did perfect it
RE5 is worse than 4 in almost every way. The only thing it's better for is quick weapon swapping and being able to play with a friend.

>>724496338 (OP)
For the most part yes, games back then were made by nerds who actually played video games so they made vidya that they would want to play. Nowadays the majority of people who make games are millennials who just got of game design college and maybe played Pokemon games or Zelda whey they were 10 years old. That along with them getting ordered to make changes from investors who likely never played a video game in their lives.

>>724499889
Luke does sound concerned in Academy if all you did was pick dark side powers

>>724496338 (OP)
Games were better because they were passion projects that were made by nerds for nerds. Games now are only made to squeeze the most amount of money out of zoomer’s parents credit cards. America ruins another thing. Sad!

>>724496605
Because a direct hit will kill in one shot unless the opponent has a shield or armour. The trick is to land that direct hit rather than glancing blows.

>>724499917
>RE5 is worse than 4 in almost every way.
you cant compare them. they're totally different. re5 has better gunplay and is faster

>>724496605
Star Wars Obi-Wan for Xbox has proper lightsaber combat and takes more skill to deflect blaster bolts and duel enemies

>>724499446
What the fuck you're talking about? In Jedi Knight 2 (the game released before the one in OP) light side and dark side force powers are mutually exclusive. Dark Side can't use force healing and Light side can't use lightning. It's not clone wars that established that.

>>724500170
>>724499917
RE4 is a slow paced, atmospheric TPS horror action game while RE5 is Gears of War without wall hugging and horror elements slapped on it.
Both are good, but I only finished 4.

>>724498817
That's some first class gaslighting. What people are noticing is that.supposedly the same devs that produced hits around 2010 have made less and less culturally relevant games since if any. Bethesda peaked with Skyrim, Firaxis peaked with Civ 5, Rockstar peaked with GTA 5, CDPR peaked with Witcher 4. It's not 4 yeas per game. It's 10-15 years of general decline.

>>724499889
given that force lightning is concentrated hatred, i'm pretty sure you have to be fucked up on some level to be able to do it, and another to project said hatred onto anyone
most force abilities are pretty solidly neutral though, choke is just a hyper specific use of telekinesis for example

>>724500170
I thought saying "RE5 perfected it" was comparing them.
Either way it was extremely fucking annoying when I played it alone, but I had a great time playing with a friend so I think of it more fondly now

>>724496484
kanye?

>>724496459
Because he had a history of using Dark Side force abilities. A lot of people that played this even at the time never played or heard about a game called Mysteries of the Sith, which released after Dark Forces II but before Jedi Outcast. In it, Kyle falls to the Dark Side and only sees the error of his ways after being defeated by Mara Jade, the protagonist of that game. This game takes place after he has cut away his connection to the Force, and it's why Kyle doesn't have access to the Force at the start of the game and only taps into it after Jan is (seemingly) murdered. So as a result, he taps into the Dark Side to some extent, but crucially remains in control.

>>724496338 (OP)
Games were much more "readable" with old graphics. Realism turns every object on the screen into a colorful mess.

>>724496876
Dumb frog actually thinks worst is best and vice versa.

>>724500941
For me, modern games have made me dislike the geometric concepts of hexagons and diamonds.

>>724500941
It really does. Hyper-realism is fine when the genre is appropriate, but the look of every modern game is awful. Give me shit like Ghost of Tshushima with vibrant color and cinematic physics any day. I loved how in the 2000s a dev would think of a cool artstyle and spawn an entire new look, like how cel-shading took off way back when.

i love that you motherfuckers are always 10 years late to realize obvious fucking shit. "w-wow maybe video games ARE getting worse!" fuck all of you. i'm so sick of "this is why we can't have nice things."

>>724496338 (OP)
Modern games are fine, you've just gotten old and depressed.

Jedi Academy is the only good Katarn game. DF1 is okay, but not among the best of the Doom-clones. DF2, MotS, and Outcast are downright bad games because they were made by people who thought levels should be designed to get the player stuck and lost for long periods of time. You naturally want to have frequent action in a game like this, for opportunities to use your lightsaber and force powers, but no, fuck you, this will only be permitted periodically and in small amounts. 80% of game time is spent running laps around boring environments until you finally happen upon a hidden switch or a deliberately obscured point of egress. Going into the next area there will be a brief fight, and once those enemies are dead, it's time to start running the old laps again.

>>724496459
Theres a light-side equivalent and he has fluctuated between both sides.

>>724496338 (OP)
‘Fraid so

>>724500608
Enough to turn a nigga to the dark side

>>724498585
>>724499053
One of his first interactions with the outside world that we see (after Ben) is him cutting a fucking guy's arm off because he was talking shit and pushing Luke around
Luke has always been shown capable of using force, but he never uses it for his own gain like Vader did. It was for self-defense.

>>724499720
Mary Sue? Kyle never did anything noteworthy.
Look up Corran Horn if you want to see a true "writer's pet".

>>724499889
>>724496459
The devs prioritized fun ahead of lore.
Kyle never uses any dark side Force power in the novels.

>>724500234
>obi wan motiff is blue
>let's paint it green because is xbox

>>724500561
GTA V was only more culturally relevant than RDR2 because of kids playing the Online.
People reference the game far more than GTA V

>>724498585
>use force telekinesis on any non-living object
>this is fine
>use force on someone who lives, but only to push them
>this is also fine
>use the same telekinetic grip to choke someone
>now it is a dark side power!
This is what always kind of confused me
There are force powers that are clearly, exclusively dark sided, like force lightning.
But force choke is not a force ability that is "dark" in of itself, because it is just telekinesis. It is the application that is dark.
To make the difference more clear: Force lightning cannot be used by anyone just like that, you have to be deep in the dark side and funnel you negative emotions into it, it is a bit like the forbidden curses in harry potter, you have to "mean" it.
But force choke? Any jedi who can use telekinesis can decide to apply it on someones throat to choke them to death. So it is not technically an inherently dark force ability, just a dark application of a neutral force ability, if you get what I mean.

>>724496459
force lightning is a manifestation of teh user's will, not something you get at level 12 sith

>>724505781
>Kyle never did anything noteworthy
He was originally the one who helped to steal and deliver the Death Star plans to Leia before Disney retconned that to Jyn Erso

>>724506946
That's fine, but far from a mary sue.
In the novels he was just another of many Jedi Masters.

>>724499917
4 has more interesting levels and art, but it's too slow for replaying. 5 is always fun.

>>724499603
I mean if you don't define what goyslop means here there's no real retort I can give. Lifelong video game fans spent their time and effort to make these games, they are replayable and exciting.

>>724496338 (OP)
38 yo boomer here

no

no they werent, i like modern games much much more

>>724499720
Kyle is nothing compared to Starkiller. That guy was literally some writer's edgy OC fanfic put into the main storyline. People complain about Rey and Ahsoka being mary sues, which they most definitely are, but even they pale in comparison to Starkiller.

It felt better to move around in the jedi knight games than the jedi survivor games. In general a lot of AAA games don't feel very good to move around in.

>>724508657
And Starkiller is nothing compared to basically any Masters of the New Jedi Order post-Yuuzhan Vong war.
In Fate of the Jedi Luke's son, Ben, was only 17 and at one point he launches a Force blast that it's literally described as being able to take out a capital ship.

>>724508657
They are different versions of Mary Sues.
Starkiller is just overpowered, while Rey and Ahsoka never do anything that feels powerful, its more like the plot itself bends to make them win.

>>724505781
Or better yet, look no further than Ahsoka.

>>724496459
He's not a Jedi. Just a guy with a lightsaber and few questions

>>724509109
>It felt better to move around in the jedi knight games than the jedi survivor games.
That's that unbloated Quake 3 engine feel. Shit's unbeatable for movement.

>>724509365
He is overpowered, being able to single handedly defeat the Emperor and Darth Vader is just retarded. But the worst thing about it is that he also was the reason why the rebellion was created before it being retconned.

>>724508657
You're only saying this because you've only experienced the game version of Starkiller which runs on video game logic.
In the novel he's toned down.
Nothing Starkiller did will EVER compare to Ahsoka dying and being brought back to life with the soul of the light side avatar of the Force.

>>724509535
You would think modern engines would be able to feel just as good but most don't.

>>724509565
The Rebellion already existed in a way, the point of his mission was to find out who the leaders were.
It's just his sacrifice inspired them to make it official.

>>724509250
The EU was fucking terrible.

>>724498753
i rather have that than Debra Wilson#3425
i never played a game with her face in it mind you but still. just scan literally whos

>>724496338 (OP)
Dark Forces 2 and Jedi Outcast are my favorite Star Wars games ever but Fallen Order and Survivor are better made in a number of respectsl

>>724509827
Nah, it was kino.
Except for Legacy of the Force, that was absolute crap and a Disney-tier character assassination of Jacen Solo.

>>724509584
Even then you're kind of underplaying it.
It's more like Ahsoka, Anakin's (aka The Chosen OneTM) padawan/BFF that's never mentioned in the movies at all, turns to the dark side and DIES (oh no!), and she's so special and important that she gets to be the first person that Anakin gets to figure out and use his power as The Chosen OneTM to bring her back to life (sorry, Padme!) and now she hosts the soul of the avatar of the light side of the Force. Then it's played off casually and never mentioned again.

>>724510414
And Tahiri.
They turned the purest girl of Luke's Jedi Order into an obsessive pedophile.

>>724510494
The Chosen One shit was very stupid to begin with.

>>724496459
Because he is a shitty mary sue videogame self insert, and EU slop was 99% garbage, was never canon and Lucas literally called it fanfiction.

>>724510992
>>724509827
Filonisister...

>>724496459
Those are tickle rays

>>724510992
>t. Filonijew

>>724505026
skill issue

>>724496459
Why is a Jedi using force persuasion to commit bank fraud?

>>724496338 (OP)
>Were old games really better?
No

>>724511221
I'm an OT purist if anything.

>>724499774
they are the only ones requiring skill as opposed to bing bang wahoo actionslop

>>724511221
>>724511402
The majority of OT/PT fans have never read a single EU comic or novel.

>>724496459
Because the EU was filled with retarded tier writingg and never produced a single game, comic, novel, anything at all that was worth anyone's time.

>>724511994
They're really missing out, especially the PT fans. The CWMMP remains some of the best content of that era.

>>724511994
PT fans aren't even literate.

>>724512074
I liked a lot of the PT era EU stuff. Hell, KOTOR is EU and one of the most beloved SW media ever. Doesn't change the fact that 99.5% of the EU is literally garbage slop.

>>724505781
Corran was a writers pet but Stackpole at least let him fail and fuck up which is more than can be said for leads now a days in this franchise.

>>724511994
The majority of OT/PT fans also never watched TCW or Rebels

>>724512257
EU fags are on suicide watch at all points in time. You bring up bantam, or Legacy or Abeloth or Vong and they'll bend over backwards trying to justify it. Your era is shit too.no one cares about Vaderlite or death star lite or muh deconstruction.

>>724512151
true

>>724512151
>>724511994
PT fans aren't even Star Wars fans.

>>724496459
I love Jedi knight, and I love Kyle Katarn but the series is just poorly written
>Kyle Katarn who is highly susceptible to succombing to the dark side minutes after his gf is killed: IM GONNA GO FUCKING KILL EVERYONE IN THE EMPIRE AND KILL DARTH TREX!!! IM SO FUCKING ANGRY IM GONNA KILL THEM ALL! LUKE THEY KILLED JAN AND IM MAD, ITS TIME TO FUCKING START THIS KILL QUEST
>Luke fucking Skywalker, king balance of the force: yeah sure thing bud, I put your lightsaber in the tutorial cave nearby, have fun dude!

>>724512257
Nah, that's disingenuous and your talking points sound like the standard Disneydrone's understanding of the EU.
Next you'll probably talk about the crying mountain or Luuke, like they always do.

>>724510587
I'm always a fan of Tahiri suffering hours, they really push her through the wheelhouse before letting her get some peace in Fate.

>>724512454
>Rebels now considered a good alongside TCW
I knew zoomies would grow up and start parroting this opinion one day.

>>724512753
People are alraedy coming around on the sequels harder than they did the prequels.

>>724512465
Dangerously based opinion.

>>724512828
Ha, good one.

Cal Kestis is a better written rogue jedi protagonist than Kyle Katarn, but /v/ is not ready to have that conversation yet.

>>724512737
Why would luke try to stop kyle from killing the empire?

>>724512941
Kyle Katarn is a shit tier character no better than any of the EU slop that was being developed at that time, Cal is a better written character than any of them, but it's not a high bar.

>>724496338 (OP)
Yes 1000% modern "developers" are like fast food workers compared to old devs. Not to mention all the political and industry bullshit that happens now as well.

>>724512909
I wish I was joking.

>>724512828
This line has been peddled for years now, and every time it falls flat on its ass.
Even the ben solo astroturf fizzled when the average reaction was that the whole concept was fucking stupid.

>>724512454
Cable network television outreach was, without a doubt, far greater than a bunch of shitty licensed books and comics. Cartoon Network said that The Clone Wars was the most watch show they've had and the highest watched premiere of any cartoon in the history of their channel. But no one watched Rebels, you are right. It was DisneyXD channel, and it had like 20% of The Clone Wars' viewership at best. Disney really shat their pants with that one.

>>724513014
The same reason Luke doesn't just do it himself, going on a rage and vengeande filled murderquest would warp him into a sith

>>724513098
Kyle already had that brush in Mysteries of the Sith, he wasn't going to fall again.

>>724512828
Consider this, most people with taste simply don't care about modern star wars in general. Thus anyone who actually does probably has shit enough taste to "come around" to even disneyslop.

>>724512743
I usually bring up space werewolves next actually. Other fun topics include sun crusher, mary sue droids, and the dark saber.

>it's another Filonijew sperging out about the EU episode
This rerun has been going on for like 7 years now.

>>724496338 (OP)
varies on a case by case basis really. I thought Jedi Fallen Order was quite good, I liked it more than Jedi Knight 2 though it's close, and I'm also a sucker for metroid style level design. Survivor I think however is worse because it pushes the nu-old republic shit and level design is more open which I didn't like. Jedi Academy clears all of them though.

>>724496459
Plo Koon using force lightning has been canon for years

>>724496459
>tourist faggot that only watched one onions wars movie

>>724513135
>he wasn't going to fall again
If outcast was well written he would be liable to, I guess we don't have to worry about it as they made him a yippy Skippy cartoon character in Academy

>>724513098
It's perfectly lightside to be a murder hobo as long as you mostly kill aliens and evil people.

>>724513151
Ah, I see you had to take some time to check your notes before replying.

>>724513245
Outcast was EU slop, it would never have been well written or fun.

>>724513163
lel

>people are coming around on the sequel trilogy
Inb4 this shit doesn't count because it's technically not from the movies
https://youtu.be/5I5vbO3UbNk?si=355ijezHo7-dBmMt

>>724513151
Space werewolves sounds sick, tell me more.

>>724513271
Nope, they're just among the stupidest slop of the EU. But really every single superweapon that tries to one-up the death star is. Sorry friend, but no one here agrees with you.

>>724513378
I never said they were good, just saying you're being disingenuous, which is true and agreeable.

>>724512941
Katarn was never much of a character. He was just a player vehicle which is why he was mostly irrelevant to the EU at large.

>>724513330
What is this garbage?

>>724513151
>>724513378
kek, you've got the EUfag crying itt.

>>724513437
I disagree, but continue being the sole defender of the EU ITT. Must be hard work.

>>724513520
I will and you'll continue to seethe.

>>724496338 (OP)
Star Wars is like ambrosia for the mentally retarded.

>>724513497
Its princess Leia running from mercenary bounty hunters in the Disney series "We trotted out Ewan Macgregor so he can get mogged by women and kids"

>>724513378
World devastators were pretty dope.

>>724513202
That never happened.

>>724513675
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Electric_Judgment

>>724497007
Based

>>724497237
Not really, even in games with poor performance
, that poor performance didnt impact gameplay

>>724513729
>EU
>canon
lol

>>724513729
lol

Jedi Knight > Jedi Outcast

>>724513163
It's still hilarious to me how people found his Twitter and bullied him into deleting it.

>>724513861
More canon than disney.

>>724513612
Sun Destroyer is that kid on the playground who always makes up new something to counter you at all times.

>I'm a highly mobile small ship instead of an immobile sphere
>I have special plating immune to all damage
>My exhaust port cannot be destroyed
>You can destroy planets? I destroy galaxies!

>>724496459
Because its cool

>>724496459
Kyle has always been a fence-sitting dipshit

>>724496432
fpbp

>>724513972
lol

>>724513980
Yeah, that one is fucking dumb. I'm just saying not all the superweapons are stupid.

>>724514098
Anon you're arguing with a known Disneyshill lolcow, he doesn't give a shit.

>>724513980
The dark troopers in dark forces were sick and thematically sell the idea that a limping empire is still cooking up a way to turn the tide of battle, all the DEATH STAR BUT BIGGERER shit is retarded

>>724513956
I agree but I understand why people do not. There's something about the mood of JK that's appealing to me, and the guns actually feel decent to use and are useful for the game's entirety which is nice. It's pre-PT too.

>>724513980
Desu the EU was never good in any metric and any attempt at outdoing the films is a big reason why, the "authors" (which is a term I use loosely for any writer worth his salt wouldn't ever write in an established property, only the biggest hacks who don't have a hint of talent do that) didn't ever understand the property, and turned it into star trek. Cringe.

>>724496459
>ex imperial
>also stole death star plans
>also a smuggler
>also a rebel
>also has hot Asian girlfriend
>also becomes a Jedi at the age of fucking 30 or something
>also becomes Luke's BFF
>also uses dark side and light side at the same time
>also forgets the Force but then gets it again by taking a sip from Force fountain
>also becomes super important Jedi Master at Luke's academy
>also knows Han and Chewie
When you think about it, Kyle Katarn makes Rey blush.

>>724513980
The fact that it's just so overloaded with "gotchas" makes it the most egregious super weapon, yeah. But if you dig deeper into the EU there's a lot of dumber stuff like the galaxy gun, which is probably the inspiration for the now infamous Holdo Maneuver from the Last Jedi.

>>724514269
I played through the whole Katarn series last summer, the guns in Outcast are fucking dogshit. They may be "not that bad" after you get all kinds of force powers that tip the scales, but the first 3 missions in Outcast are CBT for how fucking awful the guns are in combination to how many guns are being fired at you with nothing other than tucking behind corners

Sure there’s plenty of games now but everything back around PS2 times was so fun. It wasn’t money driven, there was only so much they could do with graphics and the size of maps and there were still ideas.
I think gamers are a problem too. They’re to autistically obsessed with graphics and shit. I was watching a short review on a racing game to see if it was worth buying and the guy was talking about trees in the distance not having enough detail. Mate, I’m not going to be looking at trees when I’m wheel to wheel going 140 mph.

>>724513163
And he does it for free!

>>724514487
Yeah but he's a video game character, which is the same shit I said about starkiller and revan. I'm not gonna sit here and cry "NOOOOO DONT LET ME PLAY AS THE COOL EDGY JEDI WITH A THOUSAND OVERPOWERED FORCE MOVES, NOOOO PLEASE DONT LET ME SLICE STORMTROOPERS IN HALF!!!! YOU CANT!!!!"

>>724514487
Kyle epitomizes everything wrong with the EU, every character was like this, and the fountain is a bigger crock of shit than anything Disney has ever done. Pretty much all the EU is worse than anything Disney has done with the franchise, but that's the epitome.

>>724514583
The crosshair in that game did not actually represent what it pointed to. There are like console commands to make crosshair accurate and make the weapons not dogshit. That game was ass, and the plot was absolutely retarded with that valley of the jedi force fountain shit, and desann was a weak, forgettable villain. Multiplayer was fun at the time, though.

>>724514725
I wouldn't go that far, but I'd say at the very least overall the EU was the same level as the Disney canon. There's a reason why pretty much every aspect of the EU that has made its way into the ST has been criticized. People tend to ignore the Emperor coming back and having dozens of back-up clones and an entire secret hidden sith empire is directly lifted from the EU.

>>724514487
Don't care. He is cool and Rey is lame.

>>724514841
I would, anything taken from the EU has been improved tenfold, even the retarded shit. Anything that hasn't been taken is worse, and most of it hasn't been taken.

>A-ACKtually, the EU is just like Disney!
What lows will they sink to next?

>>724514708
>Yeah but he's a video game character
So is Cal Kestis. But that just shows how storytelling in videogames has evolved over decades. The concept of a good story in a videogame in early 2000s was only a thing in CRPGs.

>>724514856
This. Also Katarn doesn't have to weigh out the narrative implications of being a cool sick Jedi in a universe where Luke is running Skywalker's School for Wayward Force Sensitive Boys, the rules go out the window as were in a new HIGH JEDI ERA. Rey being some fucking who that picks up a saber and owns everyone doesn't work in the "somehow the empire came back and they're even more threatening than before, also the rebels despite being the established government are still rebels because we need to keep the imagery going" universe

>>724515002
Cal is fine, but his games suck shit, I don't like his Nerf sword ass lightsaber

>>724496459
Katarn basically says fuck the Jedi code and does whatever he wants

>>724515002
Cal is OP in Jedi Survivor too.
Fully upgraded Survivor Cal is more capable than any Jedi shown on movies or TV.

>>724515227
>STARKILLER BAD
>this is fine tho!

>>724514725
There was something worse. Like some random white dudes Force sensitive clones, who were the bestest clones in the entire Grand Army of the Republic, who were personally commended by Sheev and wanked by all the movie characters, but then one became a giga powerful Sith Lord, and the other one became a Jedi Master and Luke's BFF and the hero of the Rebellion and New Republic. Like seriously, watch that cancelled Battlefront 3 campaign cut scenes, it's hilarious. It's like people were just trying to one up each other in creating the single strongest most important and bestest OC in Star Wars.

>>724499781
the books absolutely back him up.

>>724515316
Starkiller is a bad character in a bad series in a bad expanded universe. Cal is a great character in a great series in a great expanded universe, see the difference?

>>724515164
What are you talking about? All the mooks die from one hit. Jedi Outcast/Academy needed cheat codes to enable dismemberment and make lightsaber deadly. It wasn't in the vanilla game by default.

>>724514725
>Fountain opens up possibilities to allow anybody in the galaxy to get Force powers, as opposed to it being dictated by arbitrary "midichlorian count"
>This is somehow a bad thing

>>724515331
Yeah I know about this shit from threads but I choose to ignore it because if I didn't I'd have to assume anyone who likes the EU is doing it ironically and isn't actually as retarded as they make themselves out to be.

>>724515316
No, I'm a proud power levelfag, I love when media goes full retard with the Force, and one of my favorite moments in Star Wars is when Luke and Darth Krayt fought Abeloth exclusively with the Force.
My only complaint about Starkiller is that gameplay Starkiller doesn't feel as powerful as he is depicted in the cutscenes.

>>724515530
Yes because the first point was how it was before retarded writers misinterpreted Lucas.

>>724515372
>starkiller is a bad character
Disagree
>in a bad series
Agree
>in a bad expanded universe
Agree
>cal is a great character
Disagree, he's flavorless, I like that he can have a poncho and a mustache though. I'll give 3 kinopoints for that
>in a great series
Disagree, it's just star wars souls
>in a great expanded universe
Disagree

>>724515612
The way starkillers games intro you with ripping a star destroyer out of the sky, and slamming tie fighters on people is excellent, the way it level 2s you with Force Resistant enemies is egregious and terrible

>>724515227
Negated by the fact that fully upgraded late game Cal can get one shot by this lil guy.

>>724496338 (OP)
>soul vs soulless
pre-disney era star wars game were better.

>>724515673
So you agree with me, good to know.

Did they finally manage to at least get the lightsaber combat to the level of SW: Jedi Academy?

>>724515842
Its more lethal in the sequel, but its not as siiiiiiiiick as outcast/academy with gore turned on(seriously what the fuck were they thinking hiding dismemberment)

>>724515932
Yeah, the sequel was some fun times in MP.

>>724515932
>seriously what the fuck were they thinking hiding dismemberment
They were thinking "Shit the age rating isn't going to like this, but it's fun, just turn it off in the settings before we ship it"

The extreme amount of rage and autism in this thread is surprising; I didn't realize people were this autistic about star wars.

>>724516106
>I didn't realize people were this autistic about star wars.
You serious? Star wars has always been one of the most autistic fanbases.

>>724496338 (OP)
Yes. And you can and should safely ignore all of the Slop Wars autists. Drakan order of the flame alone mocks all of the fromslop. DOOM and other great FPS, esp. those with some innovation, like SoF, UT, Quake, etc mock most modern faggoty FPS. Even the modern entries in the same series suck dick, because they've lost the identity and the gameplay and became nigger troon propaganda bullshit. Also, 25iq moves like
>demons were good all along
comes from being braindead amerifats and deep complexes of the amerimutts including the burning desire to have anal sex with each other.
Any good, quality game from the previous century even is still being played to this day. No slop, no filler, no bullshit, no nonsense, just game for hours. i.e. Red Alert II is still a good game, because it just fucking is a good game and no amount of being a modern day cum slurper will ever change that.
However, there is a slight illusion that most or all of the gold games were better. This is not true. In % the industry always has had the same amount of garbage or braindead bullshit. It's just that over time the shit is getting filtered just like with anything else: movies, music, literature, etc.
TL;DR: Yes, those we still play and remember absolutely are superb to almost 100% of the modern day crap. Over 95% for sure. But that just might be the result of filtering over time.

>>724511664
>play like shit
>blame the game
zoomies, every time

>>724516184
I think Harry Potter or ASOIAF is just as autistic to Star Wars. Maybe even 40k or Star Trek.

>>724516184
I only watched the first movie, but it seems like people got tribal after the buyout.

>>724514487
He's Luke and Han mashed into one guy for gameplay purposes, pushing him past the video game context would highlight those issues.

>>724516425
Star trek absolutely, it's basically a different branch of the same autistic nerd tree. Harry potter? maybe? It's mostly just girls who grew up with it though and is more similar to twilight. A song of the MORE SHE SHAT is mostly just fags who watched the televised pornos, no one actually reads them.
>>724516537
Star wars has been autistic going back to the 70s anon. It's always been one of THE nerd franchises, and with it comes a lot of autism.

>>724509446
Nah, Ashoka is not a mary sue

>play Jedi Academy
>enemy switches to heavy stance
>does over head swing
>move backwards, wait for the blade to lower, jump over it, turn sideways and do a small horizontal slash
>takes his head clean off while avoiding his blade
They just don't make kino like this anymore for star wars. Also I'm repurposing my wizard costume from last year together with my irl lightsaber gonna go as Sith Lord.

>>724516317
Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal were kino. If you disagree, I am inclined to believe you just got raped and filtered, skill issue. As someone who played all Quake games on release, I can confirm that Doom 2016 and Eternal are some of the best games in the last 20 years.

>>724516795
She kinda is.

>>724516317
>Drakan order of the flame alone mocks all of the fromslop
Kek

>>724514487
>also has hot Asian girlfriend
That just reminds me... you know what nobody ever gave even the slightest shit about back in 1997? Identity politics. Nobody cared in the slightest what color or sex any of the charactesr in Jedi Knight were. Kyle's GF is asian, she's older than him and she even outranks him. Nobody thought that was woke shit. The wise force ghost is a black dude. One of the white male villains is pathetic. The villain is a white guy and his second in command is a woman. People designed their characters in ways that fit and what makes sense, and nobody in the audience ever thought it was otherwise.

>>724516795
She wasn't originally but she became one in disney's shit.

>>724516951
White male asian female isn't something people would be bothered by even today. It's a natural pairing. As for the other shit? A large part of it is intent. It's kind of like how no one really has a problem with barret in FF7. Just putting some random minority in a game isn't really something that bothers people. It's when it's done in a preachy way.

>>724516952
Yeah she was more of a fanfic-y writer's pet.

>>724496459
Abilities are just tools. I could use force push to throw orphans off cliffs.

>>724517221
She was originally just a hot piece of eye candy.

>>724496338 (OP)
Yea

>>724516795
She had creator's nepotism and TCW was baby mode compared to the pre-t canon clone wars media. She would've never survived Jabim.

>>724517341
Eh, I wouldn't say that.

>>724514487
>goes home
>picks up a glowstick
>reads the book of qur- i mean listens to some dude named Qu-rahn
>gets magic powers
>defeats a bunch of freaks and saves the day
uh-huh..

I read the Callista trilogy and I thought it was pretty good not sure what the ire is about it. If anything it's a little slow.

>>724514927
Okay Filonifag

>>724515552
You're a retard if you think EU fans consider all of it good.

>>724496605
I vaguely recall unfinished or poorly balanced mods in jedi knight II or jedi academy with bounty hunters vs sith vs jedi. And I really want to play an isometric multiplayer game with that. I want the jedi to have to get a bunch of kills to level up 4 tiers of a blaster deflection trait that widens the arc of deflections around them but they can still be overwhelmed with enough blaster fire. And it still can apply but at a reduced rate w maybe a weakpoint behind them if they just start swinging to attack. I want a team of screaming retards to have to work together to bring down a sith or a jedi as a bunch of mooks by attacking at the same time.

Just take chiv2 mechanics and add some lightsabers and give more movement and forcepower options too. Holy fuck that would be kino

>>724515331
That's from a PSP game dude

>>724515331
>>724514725
>OMG WYPIPO THIS IS AS BAD AS BLACK LESBIAN WITCHES CREATING THE FORCE
Filonifag keeps falling to lower lows

>>724514487
the thing about Kyle is that it took him basically 5 games to complete his arc and become a Jedi master in full mastery and understanding of himself, Rey did it all in one shitty movie

>>724496459
It was 2002, it was a video game

>>724496459
That's antisemitic

It really depends on the genre.

If you like JRPGs, PS1 and PS2 is the peak of the genre.

If you liked shooters, X360/PS3 is the peak. If you like Cinematic games, PS4/PS5. I would say if you like Souls-like games and castlevanias you are entering a peak for the genre. As always though, a different genre will start to thrive while the old falters.

>>724496459
in the context of JKII he basically took Force steroids and went on a dark side rampage after thinking his girlfriend was killed. he calmed down afterwards though, iirc in jedi academy he only uses light side powers.

>>724514487
>also becomes super important Jedi Master at Luke's academy
Not really, he becomes the main duelist teacher, that's pretty much it.

Why do retards create this EUfag boogeyman to seethe about to nobody in particular?
I haven't met a single person who enjoys the EU that wouldn't agree that shit like the Suncrusher was dumb as fuck.

>>724520012
Because everyone can tell Filonifag apart

>>724496338 (OP)
The lightsaber on the left could actually cut up targets.

>>724510992
Leia is Jewish in the EU?

>>724496338 (OP)
Dismemberment means old SW games forever mog all Disney slop

>>724510992
Am I supposed to hate this image or something?

>>724512941
isn't Cal literally supposed to be the Kyle Katarn stand-in in the new lore per the devs' own admission?

>>724496459
Because no canon at the time of release said he couldn't? Star Wars simply got more and more faggy as time went on, and now you can heal wounds if you're good enough (read support alien lives matter and gay rights) and you can kill if you're bad enough (believe that someone should be able to care about their family and race).

I am simply going to buy the Kyle Katarn action figure and you can't stop me.

>>724520157
Survivor has dismemberment, but it's not something you can control, you just need for your killing blow to hit a limb or trigger one of the finishers that involve dismemberment.

>>724520012
And yet there's some guy in this thread melting down when you criticize the EU and claims it's all one Filonifag.

>>724520346
This but I'm also gonna cum on it

>>724520346
make sure you buy it from ebay so as not to give Lucasfilm a dime

>>724520391
>but it's not something you can control
Homo shit

>>724520401
You haven't been on this site long if you can't recognize the Filonijew.

>>724497957
Luke literally force-chokes sentient beings to death in the movies????

>>724520401
Because there's an actual lolcow that stalks Star Wars threads across the site to seethe about the EU.

>>724520346
Bro what the fuck is that leg to torso ratio. Why does he look like a manlet?

For me it's the New Republic's Nebula class star destroyer

>>724496338 (OP)
yes. i'm having fun playing old games, but not new (with exception to indies).

>>724520429
I always do.

>>724519683
It was originally for Battlefront 3 before it got cancelled and repurposed for a PSP asset flip game.

Some were in some ways. I think AAA is too corporate now and they forgot that games are meant to be "played" around with. Video games are the medium where consumer creativity gets a chance to shine but a lot of game devs seem to think that video games should instead be interactive movies where you press X to see the next scene.

Its easier to say "well why does this exist, does this need to exist?" and then say no and cut it to save money so you streamline development process into a very specific experience for the player. Especially If you go by the logic that when a player does not choose to interact with X then it is a waste of money to include it in the game, meanwhile the very idea that X is in the game as an option can be a selling point for someone even if they end up not choosing it.

ie Bethesda cutting out as many things as possible from elder scrolls. cutting out spears and throwing weapons. and they say "well 2 handed swords and bows fill that roll anyways!" as if having extra options does not add to the experience.

>>724519815
Not really. Most of his Jedi arc happens somewhat incidentally in the first Jedi Knight.

>>724520893
Elite Squadron was basically BF3.
It's still the only Battlefront game to have space to surface matches

>>724497957
>>724520478
Luke literally force steals a blaster and tries to shoot Jabba in the head because his initial offer fails???

>>724496459
Lucas is a hack and canon doesn't matter

>>724521130
Because Luke is based and gives no fucks about old Jedi traditions?

>>724520157
the second souls clone game has dismemberment and you don't need to mod it or access console cheats to enable it
it's still slop though and it runs like shit

>>724496338 (OP)
Yes

The post-ROTJ EU should not have progressed beyond 14 ABY / Jedi Academy. After that, it just gets unbearable in various ways.

>>724496338 (OP)
Generally they feel a lot snappier and reactive with more readible environments and designs I feel.

>>724521379
And then he cries like a bitch about Jedi texts in the sequels. Truly putrid character assassination.

>>724496338 (OP)
In many ways, yes. I am replaying Lost Kingdoms II and it's crazy that its gameplay is still unique decades later. Nobody ever tried to replicate its gameplay or mechanics it seems and From Software seems satisfied with leaving the franchise for dead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT0oKqtFm2E

>>724496338 (OP)
They at least tried to be unique.

>>724521875
>>724521379
That part is probably truer to what Lucas wanted, for what little that's worth. Lucas never really intended for Luke to be a big break from Jedi tradition.

>>724522103
He proved himself a break in ROTJ.
Yoda and Obi Wan wanted him to kill Vader

>>724522616
That was about Luke having insight they couldn't possibly have, not a break from Jedi principles. Vader acknowledges that Obi-Wan once believed the same as Luke (even if RotS doesn't quite line up with that). Luke was also wrong about how it would go and nearly died. If it had been anyone else in that position they would have been right.

>>724496605
There is absolutely nothing proper about the Lightsaber combat in Jedi Outcast/Academy. It both looks stupid and doesn't have the best gamefeel either.

>>724522964
How could they not if they were wiser than him?
Besides, Luke would have 100% died if he had killed Vader,
Luke proved himself a better Jedi than Yoda and Obi Wan there.

>>724521570
Incorrect most of the kino happens after.

>>724523154
>How could they not if they were wiser than him?
He had a different relationship with Vader. There's no nuance to your interpretation. And, again, Luke was still fucking wrong about it. "Just be nice to your dad bro it's cool" would have been terrible advice.

>>724521379
I know. It wasn't a criticism. Jedi are allowed to kill. There's no reason they shouldn't be able to.

>>724523620
No, I'm saying they were wrong, Luke is a proper jedi and it's why his order should be of his own making, not following what the old order taught.

I stumbled around on the internet looking up stuff and found this old conversation about Luke and Mara, which makes me feel old and the EU even older.
https://archive.is/Vv2U8

>>724496338 (OP)
Jedi Knight 2 is pretty jank which kills a lot of the fun to be had.

For me, it's:

>Shadows of the Empire
>Rogue Squadron
>Episode 1 Racer
>Super Star Wars
Real kino right there.

The Jedi are samurai. Like the samurai their obsession with tradition that's not actually tradition. The Jedi obsessed about being peacekeepers who fought for the Republic and scorned blasters, much like the samurai who obsessed about being honor driven warriors who fought for their lords, constantly reminensring about “the good ole’ days” when everyone was honorable and right when in reality such a mentality came after the Sengoku-jidai and was formed due to years of peace. In reality samurai loved guns, would frequently abandon their lords, and would even pillage and loot.

I DONT KNOW SHIT ABOUT STAR WARS

>>724512941
Wow another Order 66 survivor!

>>724525373
How many are we at now?

>>724526074
All of them. It was always a thing though. And then got explained as Yoda and Obi-wan putting out the signal in Revenge. The real thing is how many ways have the rebels gotten the death star plans?

>>724526354
I know in the EU there were three plans they grabbed, not sure if Disney Wars did more than one.

>>724515316
It's literally one scene in the game when he gives into the dark side after his master gets killed and he's chasing down someone that betrayed him.

Not even remotely similar to Starkiller downing entire Star Destroyers

>so many obvious disney shills itt
>/v/ is discussing with them instead of pointing it out

>>724526620
It's a powerup you can keep using though

Would Yoda have been capable of telling Obi-Wan about Kamino being erased from the Jedi Archives (Jocasta Nu wouldn't even consider that the Archives could be wrong in the previous scene) or did he HAVE to pass off the question on to the younglings?

>>724498679
Yeah but the boss duels in survivor feel like kingdom come fights

>>724520229
Cal and Kanan Jarrus are basically the Disney version of Kyle Katarn
>>724525373
Disney really poisoned the well and conditioned fans to think few survived order 66, while at the same saying that the jedi order only had 10k Jedi.

>>724526354
>It was always a thing though.
"Luke, when gone am I, the last of the Jedi you will be"
Lying green midget

>>724496876
>Current industry is much, much, much better than that dreadful era of brown and bloom console shooters.
There's more choice than ever, but a lot of game use the same boring mechanics from old. How many games now have a leveling system where you don't get to play with your character fully until the end of the game. I'm so fucking bored of it. It's even worse for Metroidvanias because a lot of abilities end up being wall or double jumps. There's nothing original about them anymore, just a key is disguise.

>>724527509
Forgot the others he did. Too much crack he took, see you do.

>>724496338 (OP)
Absolutely yes. I'm hoping that no matter how dogshit this new Starfighter movie is, we get a video game tie in that is the Rogue Squadron 4 we always deserved

>>724513020
Not like my GOAT

>>724508657
Starkiller's abilities serve the game dumbass. Are you even aware that the whole point of the Force Unleashed is the power fantasy of using force powers in the brand spanking new Havok Engine.

>>724528153
>Are you even aware that the whole point of the Force Unleashed is the power fantasy of using force powers in the brand spanking new Havok Engine.
Why are you acting like this is a defense?

>power level talk in Star Wars
Starkiller is nothing, kneel to Celestials

>>724528243
Because it literally is. When it comes to video games, the story serves the gameplay, not the other way around. I should never have to explain that.

>>724528358
What's the source? I actually like the art.

>>724510414
>just bought all the New Jedi Order books
Can't wait to dive back into the quantity of bullshit with the Vong

>>724528428
A comic by Alan Moore called Tilotny throws a shape, part of the strange early EU era.

>>724528358
now that's some ye olde Star Wars lore right there

>>724520429
kek, the guy on ebay selling you your mouseslop toys is just the middle man. He buys from retail to sell to you

>>724528360
This, if people read the TFU story, starkiller is already strong for being a rule of two apprentice and alongside having strong force visons and essence transfer (which only Jaden Korr and Palpatine had).

>>724528534
Neat, when I get to that era in my reading I'll look out for it.

>>724526074
Canonically, about 100. Most of them die during the Empire. There about 10,000 Jedi active during the Clone Wars, so the Purge had a 99% success rate.

>>724528534
>Alan Moore
Makes sense, this is giving me Miracleman vibes. I like it.

>>724528687
Ah I think that's about the same numbers and batting average by Vader and the imperials as in the EU.

>>724528687
>muh 10,000 Jedi retcon
>2nd purge being bigger than the 1st purge

>>724528825
I don't know what that is, all I know is the dumb shit surrounding the Disney Empire era purge canon. Don't ask me why.

>>724528649
Look up Empire Strikes Back Monthly, is where all these weird comics come from.

>>724528553
Even more obscure lore: the green woman is the mom of the final villain of the EU.

>>724528954
She's Krayt's mom? A tusken hit that?

>>724513482
>Katarn was never much of a character
>despite the fact he went through a full set of journeys, fell, lifted himself back up, questioned himself, persevered anyway and eventually became a mentor figure to others

what kind of stupid cunt do you have to be to say the main character of several games was never much of a character. how fucking retarded do you have to be to claim that about Jedi Han Solo? Say he isnt a very interesting character to you or that he might be seen as wooden despite such heavy stuff happening to him but you sound like an actual braindead drooling fucking spastic to say "this videogame character was just a player vehicle".

dumb fuckin bitch. I wouldnt be so irritated if you had just said "Kyle Katarn is an edgy retard" but you tried to sound like you have any idea what youre talking about by shitting out illiterate cunt tier narrative analysis

>>724496338 (OP)
I quite liked the fast paced gameplay and animation of old games.

Aside from the name, what was wrong with him?

>>724520229
>>724527486
Casian took Kyle's narrative purpose
Kanan took Kyle's Jedi bit and rogue gunslinger arc
Cal is too insignificant on the imperial stage, he's just an insurgent rogue Jedi fighting literal whos. Vader is only there to make him job, otherwise he's doing side canon shit that's largely irrelevant so far.

If we got a Super Phantom Menace through Revenge of the Sith which would have been the most bullshit?

>>724529032
Ain't got no sovl.

>>724496338 (OP)
Some, yes. I like the Respawn Jedi games, performance issues notwithstanding. On the surface you think they're Souls-likes, but they're a lot closer to a classic action/adventure Netroidvania kind of thing. I think, maybe somewhat ironically, they are some of the only recent games to try and shake things up a bit. Not much, but it's something.
And I think they were far more authentic Star Wars experiences than the most recent movies have been. Even had a cute hetero couple with an attractive female. Crazy.

That said, the rest of the industry is in shambles. I don't expect EA to make anything like these ever again, especially after the acquisition.

>>724528896
The number is from Rebels via Kanan, who would've been too young during the clone wars to know the exact number of Jedi despite having a master who was on the council. Literally a cause of unreliable narrator, the same thing people accuse of Kylo Ren doing in the TLJ.

>>724529032
He lost.

>>724529032
Clones aren't supposed to inherit the Force if I recall George correctly, pretty sure at some point he was asked why they didn't clone Jedi and he said it wouldn't work. I don't think George ever thought of the clones as real people. The OG prequel movies give them very little characterization, they're basically slaves.

>>724528991
No, talking about Abeloth, though Krayt fought her.
She also accidentally killed Leia, and then resurrected her.

>>724529013
Brainlet.

>>724526074
Still significantly less than EU.
https://numidianprime.wordpress.com/2023/06/06/jedi-survivors-running-the-numbers/

>>724529128
Fair enough, but is it not possible he was just told that number by someone reliable? He did have a master. "How many Jedi are there?" Is a reasonable question he could've asked even as a very young kid. Wasn't he like 12 when the Purge happened.

>>724529025
We had it so good bros.

>>724529153
>The OG prequel movies give them very little characterization, they're basically slaves.
This was based. It's a shame TCW took it all away and made them no different from conscripted soldiers who all happen to look the same. You wouldn't know by how they act that they are all only several years old and had military training for literally their entire existences. They are incredibly well adjusted.
And thus the theme destroying mind control chips.

>>724529193
That's about as much as I figured would have survived in the EU given how Palpatine didn't seem overly concerned with hunting them down in Dark Lord.

>>724528818
Don't get me wrong, the too many survivors thing is a valid criticism. Further, the Inquisitorious bit got old, and fast. Maybe 1 or 2 literal who dingleberries clinging to Vader's charred ass cheek is fine, but there's just way too fucking many.

>>724528954
>Supernatural Encounters reference
Anon that's forbidden knowledge

>>724529053
>Casian took Kyle's narrative purpose
You mean the narrative of the opening level of Dark Forces that lasted like 5 minutes? Are we forgetting the other 15 times in the EU when the Death Star plans were stolen?
>Kanan took Kyle's Jedi bit and rogue gunslinger arc
Kanan was a Jedi Padawan. He didn't randomly become a Jedi in his 30's just because the developers decided to do so.
None of these characters have anything in common with Katarn, this grasping at straws is just desperate.

>>724529153
>I don't think George ever thought of the clones as real people. The OG prequel movies give them very little characterization, they're basically slaves
Literally every Clone in RotS with a speaking role before Order 66 had characterization. Lucas was also the person who pushed for each member of Delta Squad to have their own distinct voice and personality.

>>724529356
I never played this game.

>>724529359
>Literally every Clone in RotS with a speaking role before Order 66 had characterization
So Commander Cody and... two or three random clone pilots who die in the same scene they speak?

>>724529260
Yeah the clone shit was always wonky, I think it was missed opportunity to just have them be forced conscripts that were fine or maybe even gungho at first. But as the years go by and they burn out, they are fine with Palpatine declaring himself Emperor, and the staged assassination plot he set Mace up for in his office would be what tipped them over to doing the Purge. I think criticism of pre-disney prequel era is pretty accurate.

>>724529425
Let me guess, you NEED more?

>>724506615
>There are force powers that are clearly, exclusively dark sided, like force lightning.

>No, padawan, you cannot provide electrical power to this hospital during a blackout, saving hundreds of hospitalized orphans in dire need of medical care. That way leads to dark and terrible things.

>>724528825
>>muh 10,000 Jedi retcon
How many should there be?

>>724529153
>I don't think George ever thought of the clones as real people
You would think wrong.
>“Even though they’re clones, clones are people,” Lucas emphasized. “Everybody starts out the same, but in time, as they grow up, they change.”
https://youtu.be/4NgPKSzR0LU?t=968

>>724529458
The Clones don't need anything like that. Episode II already tells us they are genetically modified to follow any order given to them by the chain of command. That combined with their training to only ever follow the chain of command (because they are disposable soldiers) is all you ever need for the Clones to serve their purpose in the Prequels. George is a dumb nigger for insisting on making them into real people.

>>724529538
Interesting, did I just hallucinate him saying clones can't have the force?

>>724529537
9,857.3

>>724529525
Hell no, Clones aren't normal people. They're basically biological droids with a bit more creativity than the clankers they were created to fight. They are solely devoted to war. At least they should be.

>>724529220
I really doubt Depa Billaba would tell him that sensitive info at such a young age. She wouldn't even have that call because stuff like that is Yoda's and Windu's territory.

>>724529193
>>724529301
>https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/7trlxb/complete_list_of_all_order_66_survivors_in/

from the post

>TLDR For Survivor’s Lives Section:
>2 Masters, 2 Jedi Knights, 0 Padawan, 0 Younglings 1 Jedi Service Corp Member still claiming to be jedi. OR out of the 190 survivors only 5 (2.63%) are left. Or to go even larger, of the 10000 jedi only 0.05% are left active.
>4 Masters, 5 Knights, 0 Padawans, 1 Youngling, 0 Jedi Service Corps Members will join Luke’s Academy. Or out of the 190 survivors only 10 (5.26%) are left. Or to go even larger, of the 10000 jedi only 0.1% are left active.

Even then, we only have a list of known survivors, the list could be bigger


>>724529537
Lucas said the jedi were in the "hundreds of thousands" back in the 70's.

>>724529537
>>724529756

>>724497340
>movie games dead
>everything is movie games and will get goty after faggots on here shilled it nonstop for months

>>724529593
The instance George showed the clones as humans with emotions and relationships and camaraderie, especially to their jedi commanders, it was over. It just became impossible to justify why they would all kill their friends in arms, commanders, heroes, and sometimes even lovers, in cold blood no matter the amount of brainwashing.

>>724529797
So it was canonically according to george 100,000? That makes approximately 100 survivors an even smaller number. Not even 1% of 1% survived the Empire. That's crazy fucking effective.

>>724529623
501st Campaign might still be one of the best pieces of media in Star Wars, along with the old X-Wing books

Yes.

>>724529797
>Leia being the REAL chosen one
Dumb. Anakin should be the ONLY chosen one. Not Luke. Not Leia. Not Rey.

>>724529873
Yes, and outbound flight since I finished that book recently and really liked it.

>>724529852
I mean what're they even gonna do after the murdering if they're not mindless drones? Get normal jobs? They're all clones of one guy. What's Jango but shittier #58492584 gonna do next? Open a clone bakery?

>>724529527
Force lighting is unnatural. It's morally good to let the orphans die naturally.

>>724529936
Start oppressing the outer rim.

>>724529907
The Chosen One shit was stupid from the outset. Terrible retcon.

>>724529978
I'll oppress your outer rim!

>>724530025
That's terror.

>>724529651
The Force resides in all life-forms. Not everyone can use it like Jedi, though. Not enough midichlorians to reach any meaningful potential through training, not enough time to train because of accelerated aging, and other factors, like the mindset.

>>724529797
>Leia is in charge so she's the Chosen One
>nothing to do with balancing the Force or removing the cancer of the dark side
>she's the Chancellor and thus the Chosen One
What the fuck George

>>724530095
I HATE YOU

>>724530065
Wasn't the accelerated aging something they could not do? Boba was born without it. So in theory they could just clone Obi-Wan 10,000 times, and all of them would have midichlorians and be good at Soresu?

>>724529993
What does it damage? It takes no agency away from anything in the OT. Complaining about it is empty Prequels whining.

>>724529993
What was the retcon?

>>724529797
Here is full.

>>724530148
In theory, maybe. But George did not really speak about it or touched the concept of cloning Jedi in any way. It's never mentioned in The Clone Wars too, afaik. It was only ever attempted in the side material (EU/Disney).

>>724530219
>there are no Stormtroopers in my third trilogy
>anyways in my third trilogy, the New Republic led by girl boss Leia has to fight against "offshoot Stormtroopers who start their own planets"
This guy was just talking out of his ass.

>>724496338 (OP)
i could decap enemies in the old game through console code and enemy interactions were fast paced since lighsabers were lighsabers instead of bats. if they kept the graphical fidelity of the new games and mixed it with the gameplay of the old games it'd be lit. they could get away with it too because lightsabers instantly cauterize in-universe so no blood needed. basically if i play a game with a beam saber and its not doing beam saber things i dont want it. bouncy reflect bats are gay and retarded.

>>724530353
I am almost sure that these were just the plot treatments he had made to hike up the price of the Disney sale.

>>724530186
It's not about agency. It's about lazy muddling. It doesn't make Anakin more interesting, and the prophecy is doomed to being trivialized or being nonsensical. It's just hacky grandiosity, an empty grasp at being operatic. At best it serves dramatic irony, but they're fucking prequels. The irony is baked in. It's the worst kind of fluff.

>>724529797
For me, I tend to agree with 100,000 for the post-Ruusan Jedi. Most "Jedi" would be in the service corps (kinda like a reserve/back rear) while only a fraction of the order are the normal Jedi we see in the movies. So kinda like a space marine chapter if you're familiar with 40k
>>724529863
The Jedi already lost tons during the war. Those that survived the initial purges, just quit and lived normal lives, which Siddious wanted. So it's more of a long term attrition.

>>724530450
>It doesn't make Anakin more interesting,
On the contrary I'd say it does. Being the "chosen one" supposed to destroy the sith, falling to the dark side and destroying the jedi instead, then redeeming himself at the last moment into fulfilling the prophecy and actually destroy the sith until Dark Empire or the ST is kino.

>>724530353
No, the main character of the sequel trilogy was a girl called Kira, who was basically Jaina Solo, Han and Leia's daughter and one of Luke's first padawans. The main enemy was Maul's crime syndicate.
Leia wasn't meant to have a very big role, she was just there to give a face to the New Republic.
The movies were also meant to delve into the Whills of the Force, something Lucas vetoed EU writers from touching on since he wanted to explore that himself.

>>724530450
The Prophecy is nearly entirely inconsequential though. The sole impact it has on the entire Star Wars story is that it allowed 9 year old Anakin to become a Jedi when they normally wouldn't take an older child. Beyond that, Anakin/Vader is never treated any differently for it. It's only slightly more consequential than Midichlorians, which again, make zero impact on the plot beyond explaining Anakin gaining admittance to the Order.

>>724530353
This might have been just the wider background world-building, the main villains were the crime syndicates. And they also wouldn't look like stormtroopers is what Lucas probably meant. Like he says, Hussein's army did not look like ISIS. They had their own drip.

>>724530406
This theory never made sense. If this was the case, Lucas wouldn't have been so upset about them not following his ideas. But he was vocally upset, and went around various outlets and interviewers to vocally speak about it. Same was written in Iger's book. Lucas was pissed they did not follow his treatments.

>>724530595
>The Prophecy is nearly entirely inconsequential though.
You're starting to get it.

>>724496459
Same reason Luke, a Jedi, used force choke.

>>724530549
>until Dark Empire or the ST is kino.
Neither of these things happened. Anakin btfo Darth Sidious and he stayed dead forever. Celebrations were had. Good times for all.

>>724530549
>until Dark Empire
I actually don't agree on this, Sidious returned but not really, not much of an ability to return to ruling the galaxy when your bodies are deterioriating rapidly and you can't even completely reform your fragmented empire, the amount of damage he did not withstanding. Felt more like a last gasp by trying to subvert the natural order and getting btfo'd than an actual return.

>>724530582
>The movies were also meant to delve into the Whills of the Force
As much as I hate the nuDisney canon, you have to admit we dodged a bullet here.

>>724530695
Choking someone is a fine application of telekinesis, which we see Jedi do all the time. Force Lightning is nearly always described as concentrated hatred.

>>724530595
>>724530450
I do like the prophecy as a way to boost Anakin's ego and sense of self-importance while it also causes rifts between him and the council and other jedi leading to his fall.

>>724530742
I don't, I like it when Star Wars gets autistic over the Force, be it via Lucas' autism, or how the EU did it with astral planes, Celestials andmsuch.

>>724530883
>>724530742
I'd have watched it, but I have a hard time to believe he'd have actually made them after waiting so long between the PT and 2015, I dunno, always felt like it was a "never ever".

>>724530883
Lucas invented Mortis gods for his cosmology.
I fucking hate Mortis gods.

>>724530742
Nah. We missed out on kino. More interesting than Imperial Remnant of the week, discount Warhammer 40K aliens from another galaxy or oopsie Han and Leia's son went bad, or "here is this prequel era character from 100 years ago and he is now a Sith Lord all of the sudden".

>>724530978
No, it would have been worse than all of that.

>>724530974
TCW and TOR are not canon in my mind. I simply close my mind and they don't exist.

>>724497340
while I agree with the gaming landscape being better I wouldn't say that movie games are dead and military shooters still rule the roost

>>724530932
He wanted to set them up with a TV show called Underworld, about the criminal side of Star Wars, but this show couldn't be made because he wanted to use Volume and would have made the show cost an average of 40 million per episode. I think it's this what made him give up on Star Wars

>>724530883
>He likes midichlorians
Get a load of this clanker.

>>724530868
The issue is that there were more interesting ways of doing that than having Neeson tell him his power level was over 9000 that also could have fed more into other aspects of the story. Lucas chose the more boring and grating option at almost every turn.

>>724531031
Well, what can I say. I pity your close mindedness. Enjoy your slop, I suppose.

>>724529537
>10,000 jedi is a perfectly reasonable amount considering the amount of surviving jedi
>the clones could only kill so many of the 25,000 jedi some were bound to fall through the cracks
>Sideous has to pay for the lives of 50,000 jedi he ended with his treachery
>Remember the 100,000

>>724531392
Order 66 never happened but it should have

>>724530978
>here is this prequel era character from 100 years ago and he is now a Sith Lord all of the sudden".
Huh?

>>724529651
Its more of a handwave for 'why dont they just clone anakin a million times', just make some bullshit reason like every clone rolls on the RNG table or that the process of mass producing and raising the clones in bacta tanks fucks up their connection with the force or something.

>>724531467
Lord Kyrat or whatever that spiky nigga name was

>>724531467
Darth Krayt was a Tusken Raider Jedi that lost his shit after the Empire took over. Hijinks ensue and he is the final big bad of Star Wars a gorillion years later.

>>724530974
Fate of the Jedi did a fine job fixing the Ones, implying they were just average Celestials who, due to their pecularities, were used as symbolism by randos

>>724531467
this dumb piece of shit
glup shitto from the prequel era comics, who was then inserted by the same author 100 years after return of the jedi, and he is now a sith lord, and there is a new empire, and it rules the galaxy again, but they are "benevolent" now
oh and there is also another prequel era glup shitto from his comic books that had his super secret underground jedi academy all along, he just chose to do nothing throughout these 100 years, and now he gets to train Luke's descendant, who is a death sticks junkie wearing earrings and darth vader pants

>>724531587
Desu I wonder if Abeloth was even meant to be related to Mortis and the ones at all.

>>724531587
I don't like Celestials either. The most I'll tolerate is a severely dark side mutated Diathim.

>>724515002
>So is Cal Kestis
And among the biggest complaints for the first game about him were the baseball bat lightsaber and the weaksauce force powers, proving that making op mcs like Revan and Starkiller is indeed the better choice for a videogame.

>>724531615
>Did you have the right, Skywalker? Did you have the right to bring justice down upon the roving gang of murderous slavers who terrorize the innocent moisture farmers of Tatooine free from any judicial system that could bring them to account?
>Yes.

>>724531617
No. Lucas did not create her and she was never intended to be there in the original Mortis storyline. There is no hint of her existence. She existed before that, and then Denning retroactively made her part of the Mortis family later for his shit.

>>724496876
GoW1 and 2 are pure kino tho so you are wrong

>>724496338 (OP)
why did they not add human dismemberment or decapitations in the first Jedi, but added them in the sequel.

>>724496338 (OP)
I don't know about better, but I prefer the older games to the new ones.

>>724530219
>Still have stupid Darth Maul with robot legs
For fuck's sake, why is everybody assessed with bringing the cunt back? This was the start of 'uhm well ackshually, getting cut in half doesn't mean you died'

>>724496338 (OP)
games used to be nice to look at

>>724532443
Lucas likes the character and wanted to use him more. He regretted wasting him right away and had a story to tell with him.
>this was the start
Nah. Also, Sith Lords surviving grave injuries is kinda the point.

>>724532609
I meant the start in the 'popular' canon, I'm sure I could pull half a dozen examples from EU regarding 'I'm not actually dead', starting with clone Palpatine that they wholesale ripped off for the Rise of Skywalker.

And yeah, but that was Sith Lords like Darth Bane, not fledgling apprentices. I get he wanted to do more with him, but maybe write some prequel shit about his founding and training (which I know some of it already exists)

>>724530186
It's meaningless as a plot point because it's ambiguous and we already know anakin is gonna kill palpie

>>724532443
Darth maul falling into the dark depths of offscreen with a not-immediately-lethal injury is blatant obvious sequelbait, and honestly the only surprise was that he didnt reappear in episodes 2 and 3.

>>724533120
Darth Maul was an actual Sith Lord, as per the movies and George Lucas. We also saw young Vader, a Sith Lord, survive getting dismembered and burned to a crisp using nothing but his sheer, concentrated hatred for Obi-Wan. Lucas was interested in moving the stories forward, he was not much interested in the period before the movies. We learn Maul's backstory through dialogue in Clone Wars.

>>724533293
>not-immediately-lethal injury
Ah yes, the famously survivable 'getting literally fucking bisected, to the point where you see the torso and legs separate as he falls down the giant thermal shaft'.

If he got stabbed through the chest and then kicked off, I'd still think it was bullshit, but I'd be more likely to buy it.

>>724533440
>famously survivable 'getting literally fucking bisected
You were saying...?

>>724533608
I stand corrected, but that's fucking grim. How long did he live like that?

>>724533732
He is still alive, and he has a girlfriend, believe it or not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvdXtgqEyQU

>>724533787
>he has a girlfriend, believe it or not
She must be a horrifically disturbed fetishist.

>>724533440
Maul survival in T-canon is already a clusterfuck to fit within the proper E.U timeline given how he already suspected Darth Plagueis being Sidious' master in "Darth Maul: Endgame" which TCW never expanded upon ever again.

Hey Desann
You try any funny shit out there in my jedi temple, you pull a light saber out on the lane, I take it away from you, stick it up your lizard ass and push the fuckin button til it goes "zisss"
Nobody fucks with the Katarn

>>724496338 (OP)
We've had shit games forever. The only reason people think games were better is because no one remembers shit games unless so shitty that they go down in history as the biggest pieces of shit ever recorded.

>>724512737
No, the devs were based and fun was had

>>724517180
>White male asian female isn't something people would be bothered by even today.
I am now. All race mixing is disgusting to me now.
ALL of it.