Thread 724662945

were older indie games (lets say before 2013) better than the ones we have now? I feel like newer indies just don't capture that same kinda magic the old ones had.

you're just getting older, anon
everyone thinks things were better when they were younger, it's a fact of life

Absolutely not, no. We had to be excited about Braid, Binding of Isaac and Dungeons of Dredmor. Those games would barely be a blip nowadays. The indie vidya industry is much more competitive now in a good way.

>>724662945 (OP)
yes they were, but now we got look outside so is not that bad, megabonk is also fun but is nowhere close to minecraft vvv etc.

>>724662998
i don't think it's everyone but yes lot of people think that way. their youngling experiences were best and no one can top them.

Indies hage always sucked. Your just now realizing they are slop riding the coattails of actual good games like Super Metroid/Castlevania, Earthbound etc

>>724663483
>Indie game inspired by older mainstream game is worse because... Because it automatically is, ok?

>>724662945 (OP)
Nah, I fuckin hate the indie label now. Just means "game that is not AAA"

>>724662945 (OP)
Fuck no. Cave Story is still amazing, but indies now are starting to incorporate great level design and cool physics into gameplay. Old indies are mostly shitty RPG maker games or 2hushit people gave out for free at comiket.

>>724663483
>slop
Post that again without using /v/'s buzzword of the year and I might take you seriously ESL.

>>724663348
vvv is ass.

>>724662945 (OP)
Modern game engines are too plug and play. Pre 2012-2014 you had to be somewhat of a nerd to make a fully fledged game which meant the average indie game was of higher quality. As always access and convenience lowers the average quality of the topic at hand

>old gud new bad bit now with indie games
Yawn

>make game alone or with a small team
>release it in """"""""""early access""""""""""
>barely give any updates to the game after fotm
>dont make any other interesting projects with the money either
these are the only indie devs that deserve to be flamed

>>724663232
/thread

>The indie vidya industry is much more competitive now in a good way.
LOL
LMAO

>>724664142
Name 10 high quality indie games from pre2013.

>>724664242
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>STOP MAKING HECKING CO-OP GAMES I DON'T WANT
You're so retarded it hurts desu

>>724664319
>subhuman calling anyone retarded

>>724664285
Just be be clear the "good" indie games are much better. It's just the sea of trash is so bad it draws the rest down. Just look at the newly released tab on steam. I was merely talking about averages not peaks

>>724662945 (OP)
Patreon has been a good thing for video makers but at the same time it ruined video game development. People finding success on patreon has made early access and abandonware normalized and tolerated.

>>724663232
>Binding of Isaac and Dungeons of Dredmor
both great unique games when they came out. modern indie games are so uninspired even if they are way more polished or are nicer visually

>>724664142
Completely untrue, indie games nowadays blow the shit out of indie games from 10 years ago.

All Limbo has is some cool visuals, mediocre platforming and mediocre puzzle solving.

Reanimal is full fledged co-op experience.

All the indie devs from 10 years ago are much more skilled than when they started 10 years ago.
>>724664416
You will never be a woman cocksucker

>>724664521
>Anon ignores the word "average" for his point
Naruhodo

>>724664634
why take average if you can only play the best?

>>724664634
If indie games from 10 years are so good, how come the Braid remaster bombed so hard?

>>724664417
If you can't even name 10 good indie games, maybe you shouldn't be talking about how they were better on average.

I think OP is thinking of the deluge of lame uninspired written by Californians exact same pixel art style "old game but not" stuff we have been seeing lately, and that is an issue, but overall no, we have such a larger variety and selection of indies nowadays THAT /v/ REFUSES TO FUCKING TALK ABOUT IN FAVOR OF STUPID ECELEB DRAMA AND OTHER FAGGOTRY that the sheer amount of cool shit outweighs all the lame paint by numbers garbage being shat out, pic related.

>>724663348
I'm incredibly torn on Look Outside, yes it's a visual treat and the entire story and atmosphere are wonderful, but as far as a GAME goes it's just bog standard RPGmaker stuff. The dev is also unfortunately a massive faggot redditor so take that into consideration.

who remembers playing Shank that shit was some of the best humble bundle kino in 2012

>>724664717
Because Braid was always shit
>>724664694
Fair. I was replying to the OP where I believe that is what he was ultimately asking. If he was implying the cream of the crop where better pre 2013 than now... Lol. LMAO. Like 2 mega hits sure but the rest not even close

>>724664717
>Braid
the guy who made it is retarded and spent all the budget translating it somehow its insane

>>724665012
Johnny Suck is a gigantic pretentious faggot and seeing him get absolutely ass blasted over The Looker will give me joy for the rest of my life.

>>724664941
>>724665012
Braid used to be one of the faces of indie gaming 10 years ago

>>724662945 (OP)
This nigga is nostalgic for braid

>>724665170
So? You think everyone loves halo because it was the face of gaming for a bit? What about Mario? So on and so on

>>724664941
>If he was implying the cream of the crop where better pre 2013 than now... Lol. LMAO
you had to be there sorry. spelunky, hotline miami, fez, bastion, trine 2, orcs must die all came out around 2012 and thats just off the top of my head. the humble bundle deals were crazy too

>>724665351
This nigga really said bastion

>>724665351
>you had to be there sorry
I was retard. You are delusional if you think those sit up there with modern indie games which are basically A games these days

>>724665351
>fez
lmao
>>724665414
Bastion is good though.

>>724665414
Bastion is literally the best game on his list by far

>>724665313
What do you mean so? OP is asking if the indies from 10 years ago were better and Braid, a face of indie gaming 10 years, is being called shit by faggots trying to prove that yes, indie games from 10 years are better, despite one of the faces of indie gaming 10 years being shit(????)

>>724665669
Cave story. Retard.

>>724665669
>It was the face therefore it is good
You aren't that intelligent are you

>>724665549
Orcs Must Die is better

>>724662945 (OP)
Nah they're better. Nobody cares about Braid, World of Goo, or Aquaria anymore.
But Doom was arguably an indie game as shareware.

>>724665809
It's also a false assertion. It was the face for maybe a year.

Why are you faggots so fucking disingenuous all the time, you know what OP means yet everyone goes DURR YOU MEAN YOU LIKE BRAID HURR, you know he isn't talking about that pile of shit. It's all about "winning" an argument with you obnoxious assholes anymore, someone could say the sky is blue and you'd respond with an orange sunset going HA I WIN THE DEBATE EAT SHIT LMAO

>>724665750
Cave Story is 20 years old and there many Metroidvania nowadays that are equal if not better than Cave Story
>>724665809
You have to wonder yourself how come shit indies became the face of its time

>>724665848
Eh it's my second favorite but bastion has held up way better imo

>>724666023
>You have to wonder yourself how come shit indies became the face of its time
Because fuck all Indies came out in 2008?

>>724666123
>Fewer indie games come out 10 years ago
>they all happen to be shit

There are so many more games being made now that its hard to keep up and get disillusioned with the current majority of games. Honestly with the indie games taking over middleware ages ago theres far more depth, innovation and fun in gaming now more than ever. You have to look harder for stuff that appeals to you though, especially as you get older and your tastes narrow.

>>724666191
>Look at ONE year and likely the worst one year of the indie boom as it was the first
>Heh this is indictive of all ndie games pre 2013
As I said you aren't that intelligent are you? Or are you merely pretending

>>724665986
Okay but
>>724664285

>>724666041
>held up
Games don't age

>>724665012
Just make the game texts a separate easily editable file so people translates your game for free

>>724666415
I agree. I did. And I replayed orcs must die like 3 years ago and bastion more recently and I like bastion more now

>>724667538
Cave Story
uhhhh

I wanna be the guy seems like a better game than Silksong.

Absolutely fucking not. /v/ will try to argue against this because most of us suffer from a chronic case of new toy syndrome, except instead of insisting the "new toy" is invariably better, we insist it's worse.
Anyone who was actually around for it remembers how much of a meme indie games used to be. There's a reason the stereotype of the "pretentious indie developer" was so prevalent. Shit like Fez, Depression Quest, Gone Home being touted to death by people who did not play or like video games but insisted they were the best the medium had to offer. Indie gaming was a fucking joke.
>b-b-but Underta-
Say whatever the fuck you will bout Undertale or Deltarune or FNAF or whatever, they at the very least were made by, and played by, people who care about video games. Toby Fox was a chronically online nerd who has played more JRPGs than most of the people in this thread combined. Scott Cawthon made a metric fuckton of projects before he released FNAF. Even if there's "tranny shit", there was tranny shit in indie games back then too, and it was arguably way fucking worse.
If anything, it's a fucking miracle that indie games today are the way they are. Cave Story basically ended up being the blueprint for modern indie gaming. Imagine if it'd been Braid or what the fuck ever. That would've been fucking gay and retarded.
>/v/ isn't one perso-
Suck my dick. You guys are absolutely a fucking hivemind.

>>724668573
OP wasn't talking about those games and you know it, although I do feel like people have seemingly forgotten about the clique surrounding indie games back then which led to GG happening eventually.

>>724668573
Toby Fox used to have a soul, now he's a tumblr sellout faggot. FN@F, while something I personally enjoy, got popular purely due to the wave of retarded children being raised on ipads at the time same thing with Minecraft.

>>724664464
dredmor was ass when it came out dipshit
kill yourself any day

>>724668573
>Undertale or Deltarune or FNAF
Jesus Christ.

>>724669558
>>724664464
Dredmor is the most unbalanced roguelike I've ever played, like 90% of the potential builds you can make are just worthless diarrhea, you have to trial and error a ton to discover which abilities AREN'T liquid shit.

>>724667538
Spelunky

>>724663483
Why do you mention Hollowlike games? They are Hollowlike for a reason!

>>724668573
>Toby Fox was a chronically online nerd who has played more JRPGs than most of the people in this thread combined
He's a furry faggot weeb who was "inspired by" moon despite never having played it because he doesn't know Japanese.

>>724668573
>Toby Fox was a chronically online nerd who has played more JRPGs than most of the people in this thread combined
You have no idea what you are talking about at all

>>724668573
>oby Fox was a chronically online nerd who has played more JRPGs than most of the people in this thread combined.
Is playing jarpigs supposed to be a virtue? Capeshit faggots continue to be faggots.

>>724669669
Not my fault those are the examples people always bring up when they talk about "le absolute state" of modern indie games

>>724669749
Cave Story(2004)
Spelunky(2008)
Minecraft(2009)

You can help by expanding this list!

I'll show mercy and give Don't Starve despite being a 2013 game

>>724664768
i think that's my main point, the internet has gotten so big that indie games like space funeral, iwbtg, off, anything like that would just be blips in the sea of garbage that gets pumped out every day. the average is worse but the peaks are probably higher nowadays

>>724670071
Crimsonland
Liero

>>724665290
if i wanted to get specific i'd say indie games before microsoft started putting indies onto XBLA had way more charm to them. I hate braid, don't get me wrong, but it feels like pointing out one dead fish in a small pond compared to millions of dead fish in the ocean

theres many amazing new indies but almost nobody plays them
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2608270/Intravenous_2/

>>724670505
6 pre 2013 indie games so far

Seems like anons are having trouble finding all the so called better indie games from not so long ago

>>724670940
Intravenous is fucking tight. Truly a game that could only be made by a schizoid /vpol/fag

>>724670998
You seem to be under the impression anyone gives a fuck about your ask.

>>724671350
>Nyooo engage with my disingenuous argument so I can downplay and ignore it anyways

>>724671438
Nyooo engage with my disingenuous argument so I can downplay and ignore it anyways

>>724670998
DOOM is a pre 2013 indie game, i think that counts for at least 10 games LOL. Super Meat Boy, VVVVVV, every Behemoth game before Pit People, Plants Vs. Zombies, Insaniquarium, Peggle, TOUHOU??? Need I go on?

>>724671438
>>724671464
What are we doing?

>>724671470
>Insaniquarium
Popcap was anything but indie.
Somehow you haha have missed terraria which is I've of the most sold games of all time and it came out in 2011

>>724670071
Mark of the Ninja (2012)
VVVVVV (2010)
N (2004)
Gunpoint (2013)
Teleglitch (2013)
Super Meat Boy (2010)
Hero Core (2010)
Hyper Princess Pitch (2011)
Iji (2008)
Lone Survivor (2012)
SpaceChem (2011)
FTL (2012)
Legend of Grimrock (2012)
Immortal Defense (2007)
Super Hexagon (2012)
Papers, Please (2013)
Hotline Miami (2012)
DROD: Gunthro and the Epic Blunder (2012)
Defense Grid (2008)

Some are from 2013. Sorry...

>>724671556
they kinda fall into the id Software category for me, but by all means they were independent at one point in time

>>724664464
Nostalgiafaggotry is mental illness

>>724671438
You are talking about yourself, right?

>>724664417
>It's just the sea of trash is so bad it draws the rest down.
Skill issue. You're not wrong in general, but all it means is you just gotta scrounge around and be selective. Well worth it for the gold that are the best indie games around. So, no, it doesn't really drag the rest down.

>>724665351
>spelunky
Alright game, we get plenty of roguelites as good nowadays
>hotline miami
Good game, we get a good amount of action games that aren't too far off
>bastion
Good game but we absolutely get better games nowadays by the loads
>trine 2, orcs must die
Nostalgiafaggotry is a mental illness

>>724671995
Do you not know how averages work? Having 100 2/10 for every 9/10 draws the average down. Not that it makes the 9/10s worse

There was A LOT less indie games, like on Steam and the xbox market store you could just find a few of them, but the ones that got released were "mediocre".

Lets say like we had 10 indie games but they were all 7/10 on average
Now we have 10000 indie games every day and they are 3/10 on average.

>>724662945 (OP)
There were orders of magnitude fewer shovel and vaporware.

>>724668573
TRUTHNUKE

>>724672190
The amount of 3rd world retards that didn't know what "average" means in this context and need it explained to them is legitimately baffling to me

>>724670262
That's much preferable, though. And it means that more people's preferences are catered to.

Back in the very early indie games, if you didn't like cinematic "puzzle" platformer, action games, light puzzle games and mobile games, you were shit out of luck.
Now we get beat em ups, card games, genuine puzzle games, management games, strategy games, CYOAs, action games, point and clicks, and of course we're filled to the gills with fucking Metroidlikes and Roguelites (Meanwhile back in the old day people genuinely had to pretend Dungeons of Dredmor and Rogue Legacy were good games because we barely had options for those). Again, you have to scrounge more, but it's well worth it. I was excited for indie games back then and we're much better off now.

>>724662945 (OP)
>old thing good...new thing...bad??
When is this ever not the case?

>>724662945 (OP)
No, the good indies now are as good as the good indies back then, there's just way fewer barriers keeping the bad indies from releasing and getting put in your face.

>>724668573
>Crying that /v/ is a hivemind that disagrees with you while reasserting what everyone else was telling OP
lol

>>724672112
Caring about averages in this instance is brainlet behavior. Averages matter if you're playing the average video game. You're not. You're playing what appeals to you and looks interesting. The curve should be weighed well towards the cream at the top, which means indie games are better now.

>>724672583
It kind of matters as its much harder to find decent indie games now, even if there's as many good ones as before.

>>724665493
>I was retard.
Still are, unfortunately.

I only play indies today and they are pretty damn great. Just off the top of my head playing this year was Reverse Collapse, Troubleshooters, Library of Ruina, Northern Journey. I loved all of them.

>>724672636
>its much harder to find decent indie games now
Literally skill issue, man. Not my problem.

Also, give me a fucking break. You're again ignoring the fact that in the early 2010s us indie chads were happily playing shit like Rogue Legacy for tens of hours when nowadays none of us would touch that shit for a second. I have 6 hours logged into "Vessel". I wouldn't even spare that game a glance if I saw a trailer for it the first time today.

>>724672854
If that's vessel that looks fucking tight

>>724670940
holy shit

>>724672993
No, this is. That game is Alglometh. Not out yet. Can't wait for it.

>>724664768
Last I checked he was a SA goon, not a redditor.

>>724673027
The developer is an insane roided /pol/ock and the game is incredible. The first game was free for a bit

>>724673086
>That game is Alglometh
Wishlisted and thanks

Yeah old indie was peak soi
Now it’s just tranny shit

>>724673276
soisoisoisoisoisoi

>>724662945 (OP)
Before 2013? Yes. Cavestory, I Wanna Be The Guy, Alien Hominid, Fat Princess... You had to be something really special to make it big

2013-2018? Fuck no. Fez, Depression Quest, Axiom Verge plus that's when walking simulators like Gone Home, That Dragon Cancer and Firewatch started to spring up. In fact that whole 5 year period was just a dumpster fire of culture everywhere. There really wasn't anything of value being created. Crazy that 5 years is all it took for people to shut it down, and that it's taken 7 years for us to actually be rid of it.

It's been pretty great since then, especially so in the 2020's. I couldn't even begin to name all the great indy games I've had a blast playing from the last couple years.

>>724672385
And actual retards who don't understand when you're talking about "the average game" what you actually need to bring up is an example of a median, not an averaged score. You're also an idiot ignoring the sea of shitty RPG maker games as well as the subpar platformers.

>>724673318
Newniggers won't get it

>>724672102
>nostalgia
>for games released in the 2010's
>implying OMD is bad at all

>>724662945 (OP)
who knows
go play them
i don't know what is it about modern secondaries who are afraid of just trying games out and seeing for themselves
just look up the games, download them and try them
holy fuck do i have to spoonfeed you fucking newfags everything

>>724674034
the crazy part is that I have. some of my favorite games of all time were made after my arbitrary pre-2013 timeframe, there's plenty of good indie games nowadays but there's just a certain charm to older ones. Probably because they were so few and far between, and very unique for their time. Still haven't seen a single indie game on the same level as Space Funeral IMO

>>724670940
I need to check my trusted reviews first

https://youtu.be/Azd5DQnYAgI?t=1040

>>724674476
idk why it's always "hurr durr you don't even PLAY games" on this board, i wouldn't have made this thread if i hadn't played enough games to notice a different between these "eras" of indies.

>>724674761
>i wouldn't have made this thread if i hadn't played enough games to notice a different between these "eras" of indies.
You clearly haven't noticed shit seeing as everyone's told you repeatedly that despite a few old standouts, indies are much better now. You're attempt at bastardizing the word average won't change that.

>>724673086
So this game is called Vessel? This actually looks a little interesting, I might take a look at it.

>>724676050
"a few old standouts" and they're some of the most foundational or influential games ever made. new indies just spark a year-long trend that dies out by the next "innovation". Balatro comes out and every indie is just the same "here's old game but le quirky roguelike" now.

>>724677104
>"a few old standouts" and they're some of the most foundational or influential games ever made.
On what fucking planet? Cave Story maybe for setting the indie boom into motion, but that's it. VVVVVV is one of my favorite games but I'm not going to sit here and pretend it's influential. Your posts all read like some retard who just wants to complain about new things but doesn't actually play them, which is par for the course on /v/.

>>724677427
This

>>724662945 (OP)
I used to play flash games all the time, two weeks ago i played some shit called dread delusion and it has no gameplay and a shitty story about mushrooms and homosexuals, yeah its fucking over

>>724670940
>>724671076
>>724674578
>>724673091
Hell yea, bróthers

>>724677427
> 24.6 hours in Brutal Orchestra
> 79.2 hours in Balatro
> 19.6 hours in Nubby's Number Factory
> 11.1 hours in PEAK
> 69.9 (nice) hours in Pizza Tower
> 32.3 hours in Spelunky 2
> 14 hours in UFO 50

i play new indie games lol, i like new indie games, there's plenty of good ones that i love.

> Cave Story maybe for setting the indie boom into motion
i'd say all the games in indie game: the movie are also equally as important as the staple XBLA indies (despite how shit Braid is). Minecraft is a pre-2013 indie game. Minecraft.

>>724670940
I tried it and really wanted to like it because of how unabashed the writing is and how many mechanics are involved in the game, but the enemy sight levels in the dark felt really inconsistent and got annoying.

>>724678439
>i play new indie games lol
Is that supposed to be impressive? You've played a small handful of popular ones. I could name dozens of new ones I've liked and a bunch more I'm looking forward to that I've played during Steam Next fests. If that's all you can list for post-2013 indies, then you definitely don't play them.

>i'd say all the games in indie game: the movie are also equally as important as the staple XBLA indies
Nah. Cave Story was the one that got everyone into the mindset that you could make an amazing game if you had the drive and some know how. For people who actually played games back then, that was the big one. Castle Crashers and Scott Pilgrim were just marketed to dudebros and faux-nerd hipsters.

>>724678574
> Is that supposed to be impressive?
just proving my point lol, I have a bunch more in my backlog (jump king, corn kidz 64) but those are just the ones I've played recently. I recently tried the demos for blinding lite, the new avgn game, super 10 pin bowling, captain wayne, gimmiko, frogspin, and vampires best friend. I just don't get where this "you don't even PLAY videya retard" mentality comes from.

>*ignores the minecraft example*
lol. lmao. I know plenty of people who played Super Meat Boy back in the day because it was the "DARK SOULS OF PLATFORMING".

>>724678949
>just proving my point lol
No you aren't, you fucking idiot. lol
You came up with all of 7 games. 7 fucking games.

>I just don't get where this "you don't even PLAY videya retard" mentality comes from.
From you pretending there's been a huge decline in indie game quality when it's the complete opposite. There were a few good older ones, and they were mostly 2D platformers. Things have gotten absolutely amazing with regards to creativity since then.

>I know plenty of people who played Super Meat Boy back in the day because it was the "DARK SOULS OF PLATFORMING".
Yes. It was popular and good, but it was a platformer.

>>724663232
Isaac is still going and is the gold standard for the genre to this day. So are Terraria and Minecraft which came out the same year.

>>724679106
> 7 fucking games.
yeah and they're the 7 most recent games I've played.

> pretending there's been a huge decline in indie game quality
on average maybe, but I never said that every new indie game was garbage. for every great indie released there's like 50 generic 4/10's pumped out. Look at the front page of itch.io and tell me those games are cream of the crop.

>>724679735
>yeah and they're the 7 most recent games I've played.
You're picking games that are years old.
>But I just played them!
That's nice, but you've already made it clear you don't play many indies.
>on average maybe
No. Absolutely not.
>for every great indie released there's like 50 generic 4/10's pumped out.
And endless mediocre platformers and 2hu fangames were better?

>>724664285
NTA but:

Cave Story
World of Goo
Super Meat Boy
Bit Trip Beat
La Mulana
Hotline Miami
FAST Racing League
Terraria
Spelunky
Rage of the Gladiator

>>724662945 (OP)
Absolutely not. Garbage like Fez would've never been talked about at all if it released today

>>724680669
fez wasn't talked about, fish was

>>724682074
Fez was frequently talked about, even here. It was on a shocking number of 3x3s.

>>724679969
Volume anon. Volume. Also the average 2hu fan game is actually way above average quality of just an average game picked out of a hat because they tend to be 1:1 copies of good games with 2hu characters.

>>724662945 (OP)
Indie devs of the past made mods, like Cry of Fear

>>724682990
>Volume anon. Volume.
What volume? There are fucking troves of great indies across all genres now. The number of shit went up but so did the number of good games.
>Also the average 2hu fan game is actually way above average quality of just an average game picked out of a hat because they tend to be 1:1 copies of good games with 2hu characters.
As someone who actually lived in Japan and went to many comikets, I can promise you that you're wrong.

>>724663483
>sidescroll-slop

>>724662945 (OP)
Indie and AAA is a false dichotomy perpetuated by complete and utter morons. All that talk of "indie games before 2013" inevitably leads to notable XBLA titles. Nobody seems to know how big old studios often were, or the glut of shareware on PC. No it's all just retarded waxing on about the plague of direct-to-steam releases. No fucking wonder this board gets countless threads about dorito pope's the TGA game advertiesments, anonymous is evidently just as knowledgeable as the average industry plant.

>>724683813
Steam has made self publishing astronomically easier so of course Indies are more common. But yes the amount of people who call any small team game Indie regardless is insane

>>724679678
Nostalgiafaggotry is mental illness

>>724684350
Minecraft is unironcially the greatest game of all time
t. 37 years old

>>724684435
Minecraft is great (Or was, anyways, I haven't kept up with the updates in the past decade and a half), my statement was in regards to still sucking Binding of Isaac's cock in 2025 and pretending it's some holy grail. Nostalgiafaggotry is mental illness.

>>724684754
>my statement was in regards to still sucking Binding of Isaac's cock in 2025 and pretending it's some holy grail
Oh yeah fair enough. I always hated isaac and never got the hype

>>724684754
idk why people still gas up isaac when nuclear throne is about as old as rebirth and is 10 times better. probably the best roguelike to date IMO