Thread 724679371

is it explained why?

gandalf didn't nerf himself eru eluvitar did when he sent the wizards to middle earth in physical bodies

>>724679371 (OP)
so then why wasnt he there to just body sauron?

>>724679472
Because the job of these Maiar is too guide mortals to overcome evil not directly intervene using their full power. Offering council, healing, moral support, maybe taking up a sword on occasion, messengers, caretakers of nature etc. Gandalf did the most good, followed by Radagast. Nobody but Tolkien knows what the Blue Wizards did and Saruman betrayed everyone and destroyed The Shires innocence.

>>724679371 (OP)
Because his function in the story is not to solve everyone's problems.

this thread again?

>>724679526
Iirc Sauron is more powerful than even fully unleashed Gandalf, at least at his full power, with the ring.

>fantasy about magic and adventure
>people obsess over lore shit and ruin the fantasy

>>724679371 (OP)
So what the fuck does the One Ring actually do again?

>>724679990
Overall I agree but Middle Earth was build for lore autism. The majority of the pages of Tolkien are lore building and only a minority to the novels properly speaking.

>>724679990
You can enjoy both you know

>>724680080
+15% damage when you're below 50% health

>>724679494
Gandalf managed to take out that Balrog.

I really like that sort of character archetype. Someone who could technically solve all the main story problems even with the universe nerfing them, but is also aware of their own character flaws and the downsides of the people becoming reliant on their protection so they only directly get involved when it's basically reality threatening.

>israel
>isengard
how did he predict it

>>724680576
That's about his real "power level". Balrogs might be younger but they're about in the same category. OP's "one of the most powerful beings in the setting" can be stretched a lot.

>>724679371 (OP)
>Movie states if Sauron gets the One Ring he will be unstoppable
>Is literally stopped in the first 5 minutes of the 1st film when he has the One Ring equipped
What did they mean by this?

>>724679472
Yeah, you just have to read the Bible and ask yourself why mortals aren't automatically given salvation without doing anything, or by doing whatever they want.

>>724680983
They don't make stoppers like they used to. Read the books instead if the movie adaptations fail to mention this.

>>724681026
Because God is either evil or weak

Why didn't they just take the eagles to Mordor?

>>724681174
Surely Morgoth will reward you for fedora tipping instead of crushing you beneath the might of his Orc armies.

>>724680080
turns you invisible when worn and corrupts your will towards serving sauron.
also allows sauron to control people wearing the other rings of power (like the kings of men who became the ring wraiths), and when worn by sauron it makes him strong as hell. it also makes him technically unkillable while the ring still exists because his soul is contained in it or something

source: I watched the movies and never read a book in my entire life

>>724681252
Frodo didn't have a passport.

>>724679371 (OP)
In the lore Gaddafi who is actually a mayor was told by eru' millimeter that he is only there to guide them

same thing with sermon although he turned evil by the corrupt song that milker was singing and tried to use more power to become white

If i see someone genuinely care about power scaling I automatically assume their iq is below 80z

>>724679990
>fantasy about magic and adventure written by a world war 1 veteran, who studied history and linguistics, wrote multiple companion books entirely about legendary events, was heavily inspired by christian theology and european history

maybe instead, you should just read a book written by a reddit browsing atheist who just goons all day to the worldbuilding of his morally grey shitpile, AKA game of thrones

>>724681421
>more power to become white
Isn't it hilarious how the most powerful black person in human history became so strong that he turned white?

>>724680241
Tolkien had great pride and enjoyment in what he did, but it's very clear a lot of what he wrote was meant to be window dressing and literally nothing more. It's like when a sci-fi show has a character say, "That material looks like the Sheevesta crystals of the Glabcore mines of Vaakaaraa IV," and a bunch of overzealous nerds badger the writers about the lore of all those names. Bitch, nobody gives a fuck about the Glabore. It was a throwaway line meant to dress the narrative fucking windows and nothing else.

If Tolkien were alive during the internet era and had to put up with the nerds we have today, he would have inevitably started pulling a George Lucas with his worldbuilding.

>>724681587
you have no idea what you're talking about, probably because you only read the main books ( or just watched the movies)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OVzkiveUr0

>>724681587
Unironically this
It is why we get lame names for shit like magcite or whatever combination of magic + any other material, so dumbasses don't dig too deep into what it is and just take it at face value

One thing I never understood is, if Elves can choose to reincarnate quite casually, why didn't like 1 billion elves just reincarnate and kick Sauron's ass and repopulate Middle-earth? Glorfindel came back good as new.

>>724681587
The average sci fi writer doesn't create an entire language. The one that did, has a fanbase whose autism rivals the LOTR fanbase. People can speak Sindarin and Kilngon specifically because they give a fuck about the window dressing.

>>724681174
Humans are evil

>>724681797
No, we get that because writers are lazy and incompetent.

>>724680080
It lets you exert power over other people, slip into the world of spirits and all of this also increases your own personal power.
Hobbits don't have much personal power so there's not much to exert, but even Frodo by the end was capable of inflicting a curse upon Gollum.

>>724679371 (OP)
>God himself pushes a tormented creature into the lava to destroy a ring

>>724681756
Who would you retroactively cast Bombadil as in the Jackson movies?
I'd go with Brian Blessed.

>>724681902
well, I wouldn't say Rodenberry was the sole creator of Star Trek, multiple writers and creators embellished it over the years

It is directly stated instory why Gandalf couldn't switch to angel form and blaze through the forces of Mordor; it's the same fucking reason they couldn't take Glorfindel with the Fellowship.
In terms of raw power, Sauron flat out outstats everyone. His armies outnumber every other army by several orders of magnitude. He has better technology, more access to magic, a better position and more allies. Their only hope is to be discreet and move quickly; taking a bright flaming knight in shining armor will light up a beacon for his eyes and end up with an army of a bazillion orcs converging in their position.

>>724679371 (OP)
>Bilbo didn't save all his friends by going invisible, riding an eagle, and stabbing everything in his path on his own becoming a murder machine.

>>724682081
It wasn't God, it was Frodo. Five seconds before Gollum falls, Frodo, in possession of the Ring and more in tune with it then ever before, curses him to fall on the fires of Odudruin if he ever touches him again and he does exactly that.

>>724681574
Who are you talking about? Michael Jackson?

>>724682369
You're winner!

>>724682205
>What if LotR but done by a modern edgelord isekai author
Might be kind of interesting, I guess.

>>724681970
Nah, it is a mixed bag and mainly players who make it so
The average person is dumb and they either wont fully understand what this completely new word might mean or whatever, or there are those who are autists who want more depth into something to which like you said is just supposed to be window dressing. You keep something simple like magic + whatever and you keep everyone happy that matters

>>724681805
>if Elves can choose to reincarnate quite casually
If.

>>724682168
>angel
Maiar aren't angels, they're more like spirits. With powers but still. Valar are "angels".

>>724682745
The average person either won't think about it at all or will have the basic understanding that it's an ore or whatever with the context. The autist (or rather the person even paying attention) is going to think it's lazy writing (because it is), or they're going to criticize how badly it's named. Or, you can actually put effort in and the autists will praise said effort and the normalfags will think a little higher about the game in the same way it works when using default RPGMaker UI and skills vs custom tailor made variants of them.
Calling something Magic Ore or Fireite is fine for a game like Fantasy Life, but in terms of writing it's simply laziness from a person who either doesn't want to do research irl or take time to craft the world they're writing.

>>724681252
Shut up!

>>724679990
Sorry, I just can't enjoy a fantasy setting until I get 30 pages of rules governing the precise manner in which the magic system operates, oh and I also need the author to explain how mana is synthesized in the pancreas via digesting certain chemicals found in lemon juice.

>>724684848
>oh and I also need the author to explain how mana is synthesized in the pancreas via digesting certain chemicals found in lemon juice.
You don't need that, just go to lemonparty.

>>724679371 (OP)
this is why they dont really know what to do with shadow the hedgehog now.

It is cool when you get a new party member in an rpg with this archetype and theyr'e actually good. aurons the only one i can think of off the top of my head though.

>>724679371 (OP)
Gandalf is a 5th level wizard with GM fiat.

>>724679371 (OP)
The dungeon master has to nerf him somehow

>>724681756
quina from ff9 is tom bombadil but he actually gets to be a full party member. if you let him catch all the frogs in his pond he's the first to do max damage.

>>724681421
this anon knows more about this shit than anyone else here, I guarantee it

>>724682135
Dwayne Johnson

I can't believe there's still no game where I can marry and elf wife and spend the rest of my life with her

>>724680576
He's allowed to use his real power against that.

>>724680080
100% chance to Critical Hit 50% of the time.

>>724679658
what a terrible argument.
If gandolf never touched a sword, you'd be in here holding up his remote pacifism as the answer, but he did fight so you have to give this mealy mouthed nonsense instead.
Just accept that the story has a plot hole due to Gandolf being made way too essential to the world building after his original appearance.

>>724686683
Is it too hard to get this ? It's pretty simple yet unreachable

>>724679472
Gandalf is basically an angel, only helping when he feels like it

>>724686838
Take it up with JRR, it's his plot hole and it's his explanation too. Didn't you read the Silmarillion?

>>724686683
Because elves have standards.

>>724686838
Gandalf is just Odin through the eyes of a catholicized norsaboo. Sure, he could just end the story before it even began, but then there wouldn't be a story, and without a story, the mortal characters don't have an opportunity to prove themselves.

>>724679371 (OP)
Didnt he go all out killing the balrog?

>"Ah, yes. My old friend, Gandalf. Please, help me out here. I can barely believe the orcs have made it this far with so few numbers. Surely, somebody must be helping them in the shadows. Who? I haven't the foggiest, but I'm sure they must be an excellent wizard. One of the best, perhaps. Might it be you? No, hahaha, of course not my old friend. You would never do such a thing, and neither would I. But still, I do believe it to be a strapping, handsome wizard helping out those dastardly orcs and we should root them out before they manage to completely crumple one or, Ring forbid, both of The Two Towers©. If only I were a giant, flaming Eye in a tower so that I could look down from above and make the perfect plan, alas I am but a man. A strapping, handsome wizard of a man, but only a man. Say, old friend Grey Gandalf, have you ever thought about what you might look like in White? I think it would be quite flattering for your figure."
What did Tolkien mean by this?

>>724679472
It is explained in Xenoblade.
>Xenoblade 1
Shulk has a direct connection to the god of creation and can harness his powers but refuses them because he believes it is immoral for one individual to have that much power over providence.
>Xenoblade 2
Mythra is traumatized after her body goes berserk and she annihilates a whole titan, so she creates Pyra to be the new face of the Aegis and seals herself up.
>Xenoblade 3
The queens of Agnus and Keves have access to giant ferronises but prefer to jist travel with the party andight alongside them.
>Xenoblade X
Elma and al are the only ones capable of piloting the Ares Prime but they surrender it to Cross in the final fight.

>>724687253
>ferronises

>>724687230
He went as much as he could in a mortal body and it cost him his life. Only reason he came back was because Eru though Gandalf was doing a good job and told him to get his ass back to Middle Earth.

>>724687237
Don't think much about it. Tolkien was kinda problematic to say the least

>>724687379
Unbelievable...I was a fan..no more

>>724679472
Lotr is like dbz bur believing in yourself is how you power up
The bitch king tries to break Gandalfs morale instead of just smiting him for instance

The story loses some of its magic once you realize that Sauron is so fucking outclassed by the forces of good that it's not even funny.

>>724679472
Gandalf is a Maiar (lower angel if you will) and in a sub category known as Istari (wizards). He was given mortal form and basically a lock on his power so that he would guide humans in the wars to come instead of directly intervening.
This agreement goes waaaaaay back to the days of Melkor (Sauron's master) when he was the big dog and ruining shit. The Valar (higher angels/lower gods) intervened and wrecked his ass, destroying continents in the process. Melkor knew he couldn't beat them outright, so instead he poured his power into his creations (dragons, orcs, trolls, etc.). By fighting "proxy wars," the Valar wouldn't directly intervene and instead assist humanity and guide them to fight back in fear of destroying part of the world again. Eventually the Valar said fuck it and did intervene, throwing Melkor's ass into the void, a permanent and inescapable prison where has has never been heard from since. Keep in mind, the reason they intervened was because he was a Valar as well, and thus pretty powerful. They didn't intervene for Sauron since he's below them.
It's also important to note that magic and the acts of creation are limited. Characters who use it, lose it, so to say. You have a limited pool to pull from that never refills, so Gandalf was pretty picky when it came to using his already limited power. Same thing with Sauron, that's why he forged the ring, because it could contain most of his power and never degrade/run out but could also be lost/stolen so there's that. Only Eru (the big GOD) has unlimited power because he has the Flame Imperishable.

>>724687691
He had a decent chance because Eru doesn't intervene much and Valar are doing even less because that's what Eru wants. The end of third age was nothing like the previous ones.

>>724679371 (OP)
this shit pissed me off so much with Tellah in FF4. Meteor cost 99 MP and nigga had 90 MP. Shit was so maddening, I gave him that MP increasing item so i could cast meteor but he was still dikshit. then he goes and jobs to golbez. fuckin faggot

>>724687761
gaaaayyyyyyyyyy

actually pretty interesting anon. tolkien is deeper than i thought

>>724687761
Isn't flame imperishable just a codename for free will? Like when Aule made the dwarves who turned out to just be flesh puppets who obeyed his every word and couldn't make anything by themselves?

>>724687761
Unless I'm not aware of some later changes, Melkor's creations were basically out of jealousy and not purpose-built for war. They were also merely perversions and corruptions of real creations because he's a fallen Vala, not actually a god (or more accurately the god, Eru).
Also it weren't Valar who kicked out Melkor but the creator because duh. All Valar have assisted in creation which I why I'm ok with them being likened to angels but, again unless something changed or my memories have became too unreliable, Maiar haven't.

>>724687691
He's not. Sauron is so fucking cracked even when he's the weakest he's ever been. He watches the shores so the Ring can't be taken westward. The vast majority of the land is constantly waging battle against his seemingly endless forces, and the free people themselves are scattered. It's a fucking miracle Rohan even came around to assist Gondor. He receives fresh supplies and manpower from the far east and south which worship him. The Witch King, Gothmog (the fugly orc, not the balrog), and other evil forces (even if not necessarily allied with him) all wore down Middle Earth. Sauron had it in the fucking bag and the only reason he lost was because he had no idea what a the fuck a Hobbit was and that they happened to have no real desire for domination or control.

>>724687691
Horse shit. Hes close to winning by the time Frodo sets out on his journey, even closer when Frodo is about to toss the ring into the volcano. All of Middle-Earth was being assailed by his forces and kings/heroes of old were either dying (Dain, Brand) or leaving in the cases of the elves.

>>724687950
Maybe, I always figured it was the reason that Eru could have unlimited power himself and could infinitely create/bestow souls, etc.

>>724687981
He is, valar can bulldoze the entirety of mordor at any time with a snap of a finger.

>>724688057
I thought they couldn't do that because of the ring. He'll keep respawning again and again.

>>724687972
From memory, Maiar and Vala were all Ainur, which is why I likened them to angels. They were the original spirits. The reason I said "lower gods" was that the they are pretty similar to most gods in Earth pantheons, where you have a king of the skies, lord of the oceans, etc. I just figured that would be more recognizable and easier to understand for other anons who have little to no info in the setting.

>>724688057
Can, not will. Like >>724687761 says, the Valar no longer want to directly interfere because they'd destroy the world in the process. It's like you trying to calm down a rascally child in a sandbox. You can definitely do it, but you're likely going to also destroy all the sand castles, sand mounds, and the other delicate stuff that's there as you both move around.
I agree Sauron is technically outclassed, but EVERY evil is outclassed by good because Eru exists. We're just talking within the scope of Middle Earth and whatever assistance the Valar ships over.

>>724687761
thank you lotr nerd

>>724682031
what? thats never shown nigga wtf? lil hobbit didnt cast curses

>ultra powerful being joins the party and pretends to be weak
>party is dying
>keeps pretending
>everyone dies

>>724679371 (OP)
Tolkien was a hack.

>>724679472
Gandalf isn't interested in power because it would make him the same as Sauron, not to mention it would make him a tyrant eventually. He is only interested in leading the races of middle earth to seek inner strength, not in himself wielding raw power.

>>724687761
what the fuck
all of this sounds retarded
it sounds like what dbs did to dbz
is this new lore or old lore if it's old lore that's retarded all of it actively makes the movies worse

>>724688128
I mean this is like a Greek pantheon vs Achilles matchup. Sure Achilles is immortal, but can he fight gods? Probably not, eventually someone will figure out how to fuck him up.
>>724688210
Sure but like, if Sauron wins the "balanced" fight then they have to do something right?

>>724687761
Okay but where does Orlando Bloom factor into all of this

>>724687761
>would guide humans in the wars to come instead of directly intervening.
but he literally is intervening
tolkien is such a hack

>>724688394
He intervenes because the Valar were retarded and didn't think that sending a guy called Sauron's Man to fight Sauron might be a bad idea.

>>724688316
He's outright forbidden from any of that,you fucktard. Don't know why you decided to post this despite there being several more well-informed posts than yours made already.

>>724688319
That's old lore. It was in the Silmarillion, (the Bible of Middle-earth). It talks about the first ages and the creation of Arda, the Ainur and the first evil.
Magic is waning as the series progresses, so during the Lord of the Rings, magic is nearly gone from the world, which is also why power levels are much smaller. The Elves are leaving for the Undying Lands for that reason (they're tied to magic and without it they wither and perish). The Undying Lands is where the Elves and the other Ainur chill out, Heaven on Earth, if you will. It's completely separate from the mortal realms and is full of magic. That's also why Frodo and Bilbo go there during the end. Assumingly, they still die, but they die in the most beautiful and serene place imaginable where Frodo's wound would no longer hurt. By the end of the series, is essentially when the Age of Man truly begins, as magic is almost gone entirely and that's where man's technology will take over.

>>724681762
>main books
you straight up admit silmarillion is auxillary material, already know that it was published posthumously, and should understand why
background setting autism is just exactly that — autism, and not some immutable gorillion year old history, which is why it was kept in the periphery of "main story"
but if you think i'm wrong, feel free to explain why the first edition of hobbit featured a completely regular invisibility ring obtained from a weird but otherwise fair cave-dweller almost like riddle-battle was the actual important part, and sauron's ring was a retcon

>>724688330
>then they have to do something right?
This is where your "Sauron is outclassed" comes in. If Sauron wins, the Valar would probably agree to more aggressive interference and cause a great deal of catastrophe. But I don't think it'd come to that because Eru's influence wouldn't allow Sauron to win in the first place. All the subtle shit like Gollum happening to slip from the Cracks or more overt things like Gandalf being sent back are Eru tilting the scales so the forces of good triumph over Melkor's evil.

>>724687761
This all sounds too complicated. Why can't he just be a cool wizard and call it a day?

>>724682135
Matt Berry

>>724688319
Did you not read the Silmarilion? The magic fading thing is the base of all the lore. When Noldor came back to middle earth to get the silmarils back they nearly beat Melkor's ass by themselves because they were on that Valinor crack. As the years outside the Undying Lands went by they grew weaker, but an elf could still solo a balrog if he tried hard enough. You know Glorfindel? The guy who saves Frodo from the Morgul blade wound in the book? That's what he did, he solo'd a balrog, died in the process and then came back as elves can do if they're good boys.

>>724688183
It was not their age but their role what was tripping me over. But they are indirectly mentioned in Ainulindale helping Manwe so you are right.

>>724688915
They didn't lose because they grew weaker, they lost because they kept fighting amongst themselves. That and Morgoth had time to build a larger army during the 500 year long siege

>>724687817
On my 2nd playthrough of FF9 I grinded enough levels to see if Garnet could use her summons. She can't. Waste of time.

>>724689131
Pretty sure it's explicitly stated that elves grew weaker as the glow of Valinor faded from them or some other poetic nonsense like that.
I always liked that part because it implied that elves could be buffed or debuffed depending on the place they lived.

>>724682135
jack black
>I... AM TOM BOM JOLLY TOM, TOM BOMBADILLO
>LA LA LA LAVA RI-RI-RING

>>724688574
>wither and perish
Most anons now don't know that this normally doesn't mean death as humans know it in the setting because elves appear in halls of Mandos instead. This is sort of like purgatory but not a bad one, and IIRC they can visit the rest of Valinor but normally just don't want it.

Why couldn't Saruman, the strongest wizard, beat a weakened Sauron? Since he was siding with him anyway he clearly didn't care about morals and playing by the rules. So why not just go full angel mode and beat him?

>>724680080
It gives you protection from everything on entry if cast and has a pretty good draw effect that will eventually kill you if you let it ramp up too high.

>>724688638
Better yet, all of this kickstarts the Age of Men because a lot of men made it possible through sweat and blood.

>>724687691
I think it's interesting in spite of that, because Eru intervenes only twice and both were during Sauron's reign. He was like a little cockroach that wouldn't ever die and his autism for perfect order could not be stopped. Eru should have given him Factorio or something to play.

>>724689334
It's stated that elves that came from the west are "stronger" than those who stayed in Middle Earth, especially those that saw the light of the two trees, but I can't think of any that lost that buff

>>724689386
Saruman was already acting against Sauron in the books. He was really concerned that his anti-sauron plots would get exposed iirc.

>>724689334
Were they were born definitely plays a role. Elves descending from those went all the way from Cuivienen to Aman are the most powerful/supernatural. And the survivors from that age obviously as well.
Possibly their tribe matters too but that might be me imagining things.

>>724689674
>The right is incapable of making art
>Well what about Tolkien?
>Oh shit Tolkien is actually a great influential writer and isn't easy to discredit like Rowling
>Oh well he's actually ours, yes the devout Franco supporting Catholic man is on our side

>be Melkor
>lose to Valar
>lose to a spider
>lose to Valar again
>almost lose to a bunch of elves
>almost lose to an elf (singular)
>get your crown jewel stolen while sleeping
>lose to Valar for the 3rd time
>get banished from space and time
how did this nigga not get tired of having his ass handed to him every time he acts out?

Why didn't Gandalf and Saruman wear armor? Sauron and the Witch King are wizards too they wore armor

>>724690172
>>lose to a spider
Ungoliant is not a spider.