← Home ← Back to /v/

Thread 724893051

54 posts 22 images /v/
Anonymous No.724893051 [Report] >>724893660 >>724893770 >>724893832 >>724893997 >>724894012 >>724894081 >>724894330 >>724894419 >>724899532 >>724902101 >>724904627 >>724907976
Tell me I'm not alone in thinking indie 3D platformers absolutely fail at creating immersive locations

They just don't know how to get rid of that "blockout test environment" smell, as someone who likes playing games for more than just rote mechanics indies just don't offer a replacement for how things used to be done to me
Anonymous No.724893249 [Report] >>724893989 >>724901423
spyro is absolutely full of floating test environment levels. crash and mario 64 had a lot of it too
Anonymous No.724893660 [Report]
>>724893051 (OP)
>indie 3D platformers
who fucking plays theses?
Anonymous No.724893717 [Report] >>724893989
try playing astro bot
Anonymous No.724893770 [Report] >>724898516
>>724893051 (OP)
why were the same games less shit when I was ten I don't get it
Anonymous No.724893832 [Report]
>>724893051 (OP)
old 3d platformers had benefit of soulful musical compositions during levels to have much more immersion
Anonymous No.724893989 [Report] >>724901731 >>724901759
>>724893249
>spyro is absolutely full of floating test environment levels
They don't feel like it, enough work was done to cover them up even in the laziest levels

>crash
Where? It's probably the old 3D platformer that's best about this given how linear and focused it is, it was the easiest to make immersive environments for

>and mario 64 had a lot of it too
Well I wouldn't praise it for its environments anyway

>>724893717
Well it's not exactly indie but even then it still feels guilty of this in places
Anonymous No.724893997 [Report] >>724894124 >>724894214 >>724898458
>>724893051 (OP)
Hat in Time
Anonymous No.724894012 [Report]
>>724893051 (OP)
They are fun, but you are pretty much right. Every time I see one of these pop up, it feels like I'm watching a much less ugly but only somewhat more detailed version of Bubsy 3D.
Anonymous No.724894081 [Report]
>>724893051 (OP)
Snake Pass
Anonymous No.724894124 [Report] >>724894387 >>724894553
>>724893997
This literally looks like the right side of the OP image
Anonymous No.724894214 [Report]
>>724893997
I was a disappointed with the rest of the levels for not being nearly as built out as mafia town
Anonymous No.724894281 [Report]
Try Cavern of Dreams and Isopod.
Anonymous No.724894330 [Report]
>>724893051 (OP)
But Banjo looks like shit, and SM64 was even worse in terms of creating immersive locations that felt like a place instead of just random geometry and some light theming.
Anonymous No.724894387 [Report]
>>724894124
Nah you're blinded by nostalgia. Spark the Electric Jester 3 is another.
Anonymous No.724894419 [Report] >>724894526
>>724893051 (OP)
It's people who think that speed running techniques being the focus of the game makes a game memorable. The people who play a game for a lot of speed running strats are just going to keep playing old games
Anonymous No.724894427 [Report] >>724896252
The pig town from Corn Kidz 64 felt pretty alive and lived-in.
Anonymous No.724894526 [Report] >>724894786 >>724894895 >>724895980
>>724894419
Video games are, well, games, not interactive experiences, and only redditors think otherwise.
Anonymous No.724894553 [Report]
>>724894124
op is a faggot retard
Anonymous No.724894786 [Report]
>>724894526
When will we get a platformer with the jump physics done just right?
Anonymous No.724894895 [Report] >>724897621
>>724894526
wtf are you on about? Video games are an interactive form of art. They are media. They are not games.
Anonymous No.724895469 [Report]
I think it's a density problem. Way too much crap on the levels.
Anonymous No.724895980 [Report]
>>724894526
Minimalist lazy indie games are reddit incarnate though
Anonymous No.724896252 [Report]
>>724894427
I was gonna suggest that game
Anonymous No.724897463 [Report] >>724899141
I think part of it is growing up and losing that sense of wonder we had as kids. As a child, you see a door that's just a texture and you wonder what's inside. As an adult, you know it's just a texture and there's nothing actually there. You see the distant scenery of the skyboxes and imagine there's something actually there. You swim around DK Island and think that maybe, just maybe, you can swim past the invisible walls and go far out to sea, maybe finding new, secret islands or content. But now we understand that of course there wouldn't be anything, it would need to be programmed, and why would it be programmed and fully functional yet not be available in the game?

But sometimes something cool shows up, like the Insomniac Museum that you could only access at 3 AM in a specific location, and it would let you mess around with developmental stuff that didn't make the cut. Even Breath of the Wild made me wonder what was on the continent across the gorge from Hyrule, it had to have been modeled to be visible, so just how far does it go? What is the edge of the universe?
Anonymous No.724897621 [Report]
>>724894895
Gameplay is art. You can't make a game that is both fun to play and ugly. Beauty will naturally surface through good level design and mechanics.
Anonymous No.724898458 [Report]
>>724893997
Looks like AI
Anonymous No.724898516 [Report] >>724899149
>>724893770
Because the kids today have no standards.
Anonymous No.724899141 [Report] >>724900892
>>724897463
You have a point but I still get that feel effortlessly with old games I never played before, whereas I felt it maybe 2-3 times total with games made post 2010
Anonymous No.724899149 [Report]
>>724898516
>today
theres a reason marketing to kids used to be illegal
Anonymous No.724899532 [Report] >>724899863
>>724893051 (OP)
it's not just indies, basically all modern 3d platformers are like that now. zero creativity, just reused world assets.
Anonymous No.724899863 [Report]
>>724899532
>a zoomed out dk island is a... le island?
Anonymous No.724900892 [Report] >>724901759
>>724899141
I think you'd have to design a level so that it teases content that might be there, but you run the risk of blueballing players by overdoing it. Pic related spawned so many rumors in the 90s of being able to get behind Bill's house, because the overhead view never shows you just how far back it goes. What if it's a path? Bill is a notable NPC (one of the few with a name), he's the creator of the PC storage system, he turned himself into a Pokémon, there's a parody of The Fly and even has unique graphics, you can see Vaporeon, Jolteon, and Flareon via his PC, you're required to interact with him in the story to progress, and he even has official art. So of course the idea that his house could lead somewhere special was more believable than some random unnamed NPC's house.

Banjo-Kazooie had Stop 'n Swop, it teased the Ice Key before you even got 100%. You were left wondering how to reach it, how to collect these items, what they would unlock in the sequel.

Put in little off-beaten paths, like maybe you clip through a wall in one spot and find a secret path leading to an Easter egg. Or if you have a jungle level, maybe model what appears to be an area behind the impassible plant life and foliage. Make the world seem bigger than it actually is. More than having your level be floating in a void, have hard-to-climb sides that enclose it with invisible walls above it. Add occasional odd textures that seem to imply a greater story or the presence of something else, like a crater with an old pair of burned shoes in the middle. Make some curious things interactable to raise more questions. Don't overdo it, or players will start to think there's no substance, and be ready to build upon what you've hinted at in future material while still having some stuff lead to results in the current work.
Anonymous No.724901423 [Report]
>>724893249
>crash
I don't know what you're talking about, Crash (or Crash 1 at least) exceeded at making its levels feel like lived-in worlds. It's easily the best thing about the game.
>mario 64
Absolutely, but the thing that sets Mario 64 apart from indie platformers is how tight the playgrounds are. In a modern indie platformer, to skip a large chunk of the level you have to use your quadruple air dash to leap over a large gap between two linear segments of the level. In Mario 64 that other part of the level is just barely out of your reach, yet the game makes you work for it thanks to perfectly balanced flexibility of its moveset.
Anonymous No.724901731 [Report]
>>724893989
BRO IS THAT WET DRY WORLD????? IM SO FUCKIN SCARED.... SPOILER THAT SHIT O M G
Anonymous No.724901759 [Report]
>>724900892
These are all nice suggestions but they only work if the game world and its visuals are 1) defined and 2) consistent, adding them to something that's obviously low effort, rife with stock assets, unfinished, not fully thought through etc won't help

The old games in the OP image have had incredible artist working on them and tons of effort poured into making them believable, which is why they hold up, meanwhile Mario 64 skimped out on all of that and only felt immersive to kids at the time, today it feels like a half-baked demo environments (>>724893989)
Anonymous No.724902101 [Report] >>724902431
>>724893051 (OP)
i think part of the issue is that a lot of indie platformers are made by extremely small teams of devs. mario 64 had 43 actual developers working on it for like 2 years, most 3d indie platformers are gonna be like 1-10 people max. although there are exceptions like yooka replaylee which apparently had over 200 people
Anonymous No.724902431 [Report]
>>724902101
This is what I thought as first but as it turns out, some of them have a team of nearly 1000 people and still managed to look like shit.
Anonymous No.724904627 [Report] >>724904760
>>724893051 (OP)
Most 3D platformers are like the right in the sense they just prioritize gameplay over immersion
The only 3D platformers that felt immersive to me were Spyro, Jak, Sly, couple levels in Crash 1, Sonic Unleashed, and Rayman.
>Spyro works because of the art design and the music, but it was only really for the atmospheric tracks like Summer Forest.
>Jak 1 is great for immersion because of how the world is seamlessly designed. Jak 2's also good for this.
>Sly is immersive as it goes all in on its aesthetic with being a sneaky thief.
>Only levels from Crash that work for me are the bridge levels, ruin levels, and slippery climb.
>Sonic Unleashed and Rayman have great art designs where the level design compliments the art really well which helps make them memorable.
That's it for me though as for the other popular ones
>Mario is nothing but shit floating in the sky.
>Sonic's locations aren't immersive (though I would make an exception for Unleashed), they're mostly designed to be cool setpieces and are memorable because of that
>Banjo's not immersive at all, it's just scrimblo land, same for Conker
>Donkey Kong has good atmospheric tracks thanks to Wise but that's the music, not the actual levels themselves.
>Ratchet goes by Sonic's rule of cool where levels are just cool setpieces for you to shoot stuff at.
>Psychonauts is like Mario with platforms floating everywhere
>Ape Escape goes for silliness/wackiness over immersion
>LBP is platforms floating everywhere by design for community content
>the old B-grade scrimblos are either scrimbo land or floating platforms (Croc, Ty, Blinx, Spongebob, Tak)
Anonymous No.724904760 [Report]
>>724904627
Gex had good themes, they were scrimblo-landy but very well executed
Anonymous No.724905548 [Report] >>724906756 >>724907840 >>724908553
Anonymous No.724906756 [Report] >>724909043
>>724905548
why is every indie 3d platformer furshit?
Anonymous No.724907840 [Report] >>724908426
>>724905548
The movement looks nice, with it trying to copy Pseudoregalia I hope the map design will be neat
Though I don't see the point of the climbing since it looked like you can climb on anything and it lasted forever
Anonymous No.724907976 [Report] >>724908330
>>724893051 (OP)
There's a couple of reasons for this:

1) Games by teams have a lot of bespoke assets, sounds and animations that breathe life into worlds.

2) Indie devs kind of have to prioritize gameplay and elements that can be repeated due to small team sizes and development cycles.

3) A lot of 3D platformers, including the goats also felt like floating test levels in space anyway lol
An overly naturalistic approach to level design can affect it in a poor way. 3D platformers being "game-y" is fine.
Anonymous No.724908276 [Report] >>724911145
Indie games have a problem where the people making them grew up with indie games, so they're just inspired into making something that can already and was already made.
Before it was people inspired by the old "AAA" games, having to come up with novel ways to deal with a lack of budget and experience. Before THAT, it was people who played D&D and fantasy stuff so they had to come up with everything.

You have stuff like Hat in Time that was trying to be mario which had a lot of abstract, floating levels (couldn't do much else). Now a lot of studios are just trying to kenyan helicopter their own Hat in Time without doing to game design work.
Anonymous No.724908330 [Report] >>724908473
>>724907976
>A lot of 3D platformers, including the goats also felt like floating test levels in space anyway lol
This is super mario cope
Anonymous No.724908426 [Report] >>724908862
>>724907840
>Though I don't see the point of the climbing since it looked like you can climb on anything and it lasted forever
Are you color blind?
Anonymous No.724908473 [Report] >>724909136
>>724908330
I will add that the 6th generation-era 3D platformers fought hard against this phenomenon though, Even Mario Sunshine tried hard to make its places feel like places and made sacrifices to make it happen.
Anonymous No.724908553 [Report]
>>724905548
>low poly femprotag furshit platformer
AGP-core.
Anonymous No.724908862 [Report] >>724909138
>>724908426
Nah I just assumed that was lighting instead of a manual color marking since it's UE
Anonymous No.724909043 [Report]
>>724906756
I'd recommend you look at most other non-indie 3d platformers. Might give you a clue.
Anonymous No.724909136 [Report]
>>724908473
That was only Delfino Plaza and the Hotel really. A lot of the other areas have the usual nonsensical design like the harbor, theme park, bay, and the village.

The hotel really suffered from it
Anonymous No.724909138 [Report]
>>724908862
Fair. Though if you look closely at the edges, you can see that there's a separate model for the green part as well. Look around 11:10 for a clear example.
Anonymous No.724911145 [Report]
>>724908276
>without doing to game design work.
b-but design is h-hard!