Thread 724911095

>>724911095 (OP)
FNV is only as political as you make it out to be, that's the whole point of it as an RPG
All the blather that House, the NCR and the Legion tell you might mean literally nothing to you and you can kill them just because you think it's funny

>>724911095 (OP)
I'm not gonna do a damn thing politically correct.

I'm not worried about it.

>>724911394
wow you're so cool, which row in the buzz lightyear aisle do you sit on?

>>724911354
I will eat them because i think it's delicious

>>724911454
The tight ass squeaker.

big deathclaw titties

>its taken until 2025 for people to realise House was a libertarian
always got a chuckle at "libertarians" sperging out at him for having robocops but i guess they were just anarchists larping.

>>724911095 (OP)
Old politics were different from zoomer politics.

>>724911095 (OP)
this image isn't real
that dialogue isn't real

Heh fuck taxes

>>724912028
In what way?

>thoughtful critique of political viewpoints that treats all perspectives with respect
vs
>modern luxury beliefs hamfisted into the asshole of medieval fantasy settings

imagine if joshua graham was written by modern hacktivist sloppers

>>724912243
I feel like everyone about 15 years ago were disengaged and disillusioned, having a general sense that everything was fucked and it didn't matter who was in office
Nowadays you have a bunch of moral crusaders who will cheer for and justify your death if you hold the wrong opinions

>>724911596
spbp

>>724911095 (OP)
What a disingenuous fucking post. You know perfectly well that when we say that a game is "political," we mean "there's a character who is gay/black/a woman."

>>724911095 (OP)
>older games didnt make their entire identity about politics
Ftfy

It still amazes me how shitty FNV's DLCs are. In literally every single replay I just skip the DLC and just play the base game.

>>724911095 (OP)
I think you can understand the difference.

>>724911095 (OP)
The politics in older games were good.

>>724911596
>titties
Flat is justice.

>>724911095 (OP)
why is your screenshot covered in piss

>>724911095 (OP)
New Vegas didn't tell you "this guy is a bad and you should disagree with him" or "this guy is good and you should agree with him". Even Caesar's fascism, which you can tell the developer diametrically opposes politically, the game still does a good job of playing devil's advocate for.

>>724913989
no it wasnt it was literally just
>dude republicans lol

>>724911713
He's not really a libertarian. He's his own thing. A libertarian wouldn't go around the wastes forcing tribals into suits at gunpoint or filling in people's houses with concrete so they're forced to live on the strip. Nor would he kill the King's for refusing to be loyal to him.

>>724912258
Funny enough, Josh Sawyer and company were modern hacktivist sloppers of their time. How things have changed.

>>724911095 (OP)
Having characters with political opinions is based, especially when characters have differing opinions. This stimulates the mind, offers you the choices and asks for an answer to reconcile two opposing views with their own outcomes.

A political game is overt in its messaging, with obvious implied proper answers and clear moral expectations. This is written to teach or propagandize (same shit different context) a specific idea instead of allow you to arrive at conclusions.

>>724914349
lie more about the game

>>724914365
A lot of people who were reasonable 20 years ago are complete extremist nuts these days. Something just flipped a switch in the majority of the population's heads that caused them to go from "live and let live" to "death to all who oppose us" in the mid 2010s.

>>724914549
Its the internet, people are becoming divorced from reality
Slowly over time, but the lock downs institutionalized a lot of kids

>>724914549
It's the effects of slow burn radicalization through the media
People see things as black or white these days

>>724914493
Where's the lie? The three families were forced into their characters and roles as casino owners by Mr House. Benny even says how House murdered Benny's previous boss right in front of him for telling him no. Vault 22 was filled in with cement by House so its residents would be forced to live on the strip. House really does kill the Kings in the house ending if you don't go out of your way to start a war between them and the NCR. And he only spares them in that ending because he mistakes their attack on the NCR as a show of loyalty.

>>724914779
>>724914668
Personally, I think its an intentional push from powerful influential groups to try and divide the population, combined with previously young and rebellious people becoming old and out of touch.

>>724911095 (OP)
>New Vegas
>Older game

>>724914867
Good old divide and conquer

>>724914549
It was Trump, the prior paradigm all changed with Trump
You never saw anywhere near as much histrionics over politics before Trump came to somewhat upset the status quo (even if he didn't upset it near as much as he implied he would)
Big media liberals freaked out when they realized tens of millions weren't onboard with their program of everything getting browner and gayer forever and on the other side you had a bunch of nazi larper retards come out of the woodwork and rally everyone to street fighting gangs that accomplished nothing but getting a lot of people thrown in jail

I think it would be more accurate to say that both groups of people always had extremist views, it's just the context activated their hysterical tendencies

>>724914793
the entire thing? like the lie he concreted over the vault.
The Vault decided themselves over a game of poker.
People like you either just lie about the game or never played it.

Claiming House ISN'T Libertarian because he values his property is just outing yourself as a communist.

>>724915396
>the entire thing? like the lie he concreted over the vault.
No, but he did fill in enough of it to force out the permanent residents
>The Vault decided themselves over a game of poker.
Ok, admittedly its been a while since I've played. Maybe I just forgot that. Could you point to the character who said that?

>Claiming House ISN'T Libertarian because he values his property is just outing yourself as a communist.
Its fine if he wants to defend his property. The issue is that he keeps taking other people's. Along with generally violating the NAP whenever he feels like it.

You haven't at all addressed my other points. He took over the strip by force, and conquered the tribes living there, forcing them to take up the garb and culture of pre war casinos. And at the end of the game he does the same to Freeside, killing all who refuse him.

>>724914867
I can't tell if it's intentional or if it's just sensationalist politics + modern age outrage farming media reaching their logical conclusion
Either way, the result is not only a complete lack of camaraderie among neighbors, but actual seething hatred and bloodlust, so kudos if this was an orchestrated effort

>>724915973
You know a libertarian is a person. People can be evil. House is a libertarian, but by having all that he has at his disposal, he abuses his power a bit.

>>724914867
If they were trying to divide people, they wouldn't have legally abolished white right to freedom of association. They are trying to mash people together.

>>724915373
Trump was a reaction that came after the post occupy wallstreet leftist craze. People flocked to him because he was outrageous and didn't care if people called him misogynist or nazi, which was something other right wingers were bending over backwards to avoid at the time.

Though I will admit he did cause a paradigm shift. After Trump, everyone started outrage baiting to try and mimic his success.

>>724916057
I think it was both, plus decades of other factors finally reaching a boiling point.

>>724915973
House literally calls himself an "Autocrat." It's not like Caesar where he outright tells you he's setting up an alternate society to the liberal democracy NCR because it's ineffective (even if he does tell you as much, to "look out the window.") but it's part of the game's political commentary on the nature of government. His outlook is alot harder to pin down: It's rather similar to the idea of the "benevolent dictator" Voltaire wrote about: ruling by virtue of being the best man for the job, and having an army of killing machines to assert the point. He might be a businessman but he's about as libertarian as Ryan was during the civil war.

>>724914349
sounds like he was free to do what he wanted

>>724916280
By divide, I mean make people be at each other's throats while picking a side to support against their enemy. Since politicians lead the sides, they benefit when there's lots of factionalism.

>>724911095 (OP)
Taxes are evil
>grandma dies and leaves me some money
>despite her income already being taxed, the government wants a cut of the money again before I can get it
Evil

>>724911596
>big deathclaw titties

>>724916418
Autocrat is not Authoritarian. House's policy is do what you like.
I don't know why people get this confused. House is symbolically the king at the table, he just wants his cut of the casino money and demands nothing else.

>>724916240
Fair enough, I suppose he could be hypocritical libertarian like Andrew Ryan.

I read him as what he describe himself as: a chief executive. He wanted to turn private corporation into a system of government. In that way he's more of an authoritarian capitalist.

>>724916493
That's not what libertarian means. Libertarianism is a general state of freedom, which requires the non-aggression principle.

>>724911095 (OP)
Being political is not the same thing as having politics. You can tell mr. house to go fuck himself.

when you play condord, you have to support the developer's agenda to proceed through the game.

>>724915973
No that isnt wasnt happened at all, stop lying.
He gave them the choice to decide, as their tradition they decided in a game of poker.
The leavers won, so they all left. House concreted it over to stop the losers reneging.

>>724916496
>By divide, I mean make people be at each other's throats while picking a side to support against their enemy
That's simply a natural consequence of mashing people who have nothing politically, ethically, and often even genetically in common together. It is exasperated by the frustration caused by interacting with the political process, as it is intentionally designed to be irrelevant and impotent for enforcing the desires of the populace.

Democracy is simply shadow Oligarchy.

>>724914549
>support freedom of speech 20 years ago
>you're a liberal

>support freedom of speech today
>you're a conservative, possibly a nazi

>>724916793
>libertarianism is about NAP
>also you have no right to property
lol fake liberturds.

>>724916686
He'll tell you how to walk and how to talk too. Just ask the Chairmen, the Omertas, and the White Gloves. House is for whatever benefits his perfect industrial society. Most of the time that's a free market and liberty, but if he thinks the best thing for society is a hostile takeover, then he won't hesitate.

>>724916897
Whether or not you have the right to property, you cannot have a general state of freedom without the NAP.

>>724916895
People who previously called themselves liberal were not actually liberal, but collectivist authoritarians who wanted to take advantage of free speech in an anti-communist society.

>>724916839
>That's simply a natural consequence of mashing people who have nothing politically, ethically, and often even genetically in common together
But that's how all the empires throughout history have grown

>>724916418
See, that's why I don't want to call him a libertarian. He's something else. Ryan was a hypocrite because he did the opposite of what he claimed he believed in. House has been open from the start about how he wants to run things.

>>724916746
No he's still libertarian, it does the bare minimum of what a government should do. It provides basic protections and services to those under its purview. It does not overreach any of its intended goals. The only law his government has are basic human etiquette: don't kill people, don't eat people, don't steal, and don't damage other people's property. Beyond that he doesn't regulate anything beyond the gambling commission, which is where he gets his taxes from. His government is basically a form of minarchism.

>>724917109
you want the right to own lots of guns as a libertarian but no right to use them when appropriate. Thats aggression.

>>724917180
The strip is like Monaco where they eliminated taxes because the government just takes casino money

>>724917146
Wrong, that is how empires end. No empire survives Brazilification.

>>724914549
>>724916895
I lived through this as it happened and I still don't understand how it inverted so cleanly

>>724916809
I still want to know who said this in the game? I remember the lady at the front desk in vault 22 telling me how House filled it in with concrete.

Anyways, even if it was the result of a poker game, he still did conquer vegas and the three families by force.

>>724917163
A dictator can be more libertarian than a democracy. If people get together and vote to take your property, it's not libertarian at all.

>>724917228
I don't know who you think you're talking to, but you're wrong. Of course I support the use of guns against aggression.

>>724917387
all the vaults have wacky thematic themes, that vault's issue is gambling.
>by force
not really if he gave people choice and did it with shrewd deals.

>>724911095 (OP)
Older games presented politics and let you come to your own conclusions. Newer games presented politics and expect you to agree with them.

>>724916895
>young people aren't served by the current established order
>they rebel against it and promote freedom because they benefit from having it
>They grow up and become the new establishment
>Start repressing people because now free speech acts against their interests

>>724917441
If you are a libertarian you dont believe in the state monopoly on violence,
You want to be armed too, thats aggression.
Im saying you are fake

>>724911095 (OP)
A majority of them were, in fact, not political. Most of the time they were about you being a hero tasked with defeating the Demon King and saving the world or some shit.

>>724917551
Your problem here is that you don't have a coherent definition of aggression. Being armed is not aggression. Aggression is violating someone else's control of their body or property.

>>724917180
That's all well and good until you do something that threatens his authority or bottom line. If you don't toe the line and kiss the boot when he tells you to, he absolutely will kill you. See: the Kings and the former leader of the chairmen.

>>724917551
>You want to be armed too, thats aggression.

>>724917754
being armed is violence and the threat of violence.

>>724917782
yes exactly. Its not pacifist. Its not a nap.

>>724917857
Being armed is not violence. It is indeed the threat of violence, but that is not aggression. Refer to my already-stated definition of aggression.

>>724917495
>not really if he gave people choice and did it with shrewd deals.
The choice was "put on the suit and run my casino or get vaporized by my robots."

>>724917857
Being armed suggests violence, you have to wait for someone to ACT before it becomes violence. These are fundamentally different things.

>>724917857
>being armed is violence
do you have brain damage

>>724917441
>A dictator can be more libertarian than a democracy. If people get together and vote to take your property, it's not libertarian at all.
That may be true, but Mr House performing a "hostile corporate takeover" of your city with his army of robots is hardly libertarian either.

>>724917364
Weird historic revisionism in this meme. Most people on both sides of the political isle were perfectly fire with the US playing war in the middle east aside from a few protests and the younger generation enrolled in college at the time.

>>724917956
>monopoly of violence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence

like i said fake retard libertarians that are actually commues

>>724917921
nap is not pacifism and never has been

>>724917921
The NAP means you can't attack someone unless its in self defense. It doesn't mean you can't own guns or can't use them, it just means you can't go around attacking innocent people.

>>724917932
you are ignoring what im saying.
Do you or do you not think the state monopoly of violence is wrong?

>>724917768
Yeah you're violating the NAP which means he'll take appropriate actions to maintain his rule. Being libertarian doesn't mean you tolerate compete anarchy. He's a hands-off autocrat, follow his rules and don't cause trouble and he'll let you do whatever you want.

>>724918090
owning weapons is the threat of violence that someone may take your property eg the weapons themselves or harm you

>>724918003
but the strip is his, he needs the securitrons to maintain the fact it his property.

>>724917857
No shit that's how any form of authority and legitimacy is derived. That's why an armed citizenry is important because it prevents a monopoly on violence. You democratize that shit. The capacity of violence by regular people is the only real bulwark against authoritarian systems of government. That's why under no means should any people allow themselves to be disarmed. You only open yourselves up for exploitation.

>>724918163
>owning weapons is the threat of violence
world's smartest african

>>724918254
>what is "an armed society is a polite society"

>did you just suggest a character should use robot weapons to assert his ownership over his own property
>thats not nap, thats not comm...i mean libertarianism

>>724918163
A threat of violence that only becomes actual violence if someone else initiates violence first.

>>724918279
Please excuse him, he's African. The concept of time is difficult for him to grasp, never mind the monopoly on violence.

>>724912028
the difference is that competent RPG writers will let the player do what they want because it is a video game
they understood that depicting something and allowing the player to engage in it is not their own personal endorsement of it, and that video games are not supposed to be an endorsement of their own political ideology at all

whenever some failed writer or journalist comes along they try to use the medium as their soapbox and punish the player for deviating from it assuming the player is even given the agency to do so in the first place

That screenshot is from a mod and not the actual game.

>>724914172
Yes, that's exactly what I said.

>>724918102
There are two reasons a state monopoly on violence could be wrong.
1. It allows the state to become tyrannical. This is a practical issue, but in theory a benevolent state could exist, so the monopoly isn't necessarily wrong.
2. It's difficult to establish a monopoly on violence without aggressing on the rights of citizens to use their property, e.g. to make or trade for guns. That aggression would be wrong.

>>724918129
That's beyond the NAP. The Kings didn't attack him, they just refused to roll over and give up their home when he showed up in freeside. The three families would've been killed too if they didn't agree to his terms.

That's not non-aggression, that's aggression. He initiated the conflict both times because they had something and he wanted it.

>>724918234
Its only his because he robbed the previous owners at gunpoint. And he fully intends to rob more people at gunpoint for their property too.

>>724918043
>hurr durr monopoly on violence
what does this have to do with your retarded drivel?

>>724918412
Games of yore were also made by people who studied and had life experience outside of just college or going to college just for video game development. Bungie made Marathon, which has references to Arthurian legend, old Greek myth, questions on artificial intelligence and rampancy, Lovecraftian horrors that not even a highly advanced civilization could completely comprehend or deal with, and the very concept of the hero myth. Modern Bungie is staffed with people who at best know just pop culture, which today is Marvel movies and anime.

You do the math on how older media could be more nuanced.

>>724918547
Monopoly on violence is wrong because the state and cops are absolutely hopeless in defending citizens, in fact its not their job. So citizens have a natural right to be armed and care about their own defence,
Furthermore it just turns the police into a state thug army. Against the citizens.

>>724918339
He was using them to assert ownership over someone else's property.

>>724914987
New Vegas is 15 years old, its older now than the OG Fallout was when New Vegas came out.

>>724916516
And then they'll tax it again when you spend it, lol

>>724918763
>1996-2010
>2010-2015
Huh, so it is

>>724918681
>the state and cops are absolutely hopeless in defending citizens
I agree, but this is a practical concern that doesn't directly relate to the NAP/libertarianism. In principal a state could be effective at defending the rights of citizens, in which case your objection to the monopoly becomes baseless.
>Furthermore it just turns the police into a state thug army. Against the citizens.
I already covered this in the line about tyranny.

>>724914549
Sad to see

>>724911095 (OP)
Oh God this is actually real. I never heard that dialogue. New Vegas keeps amusing after all these years.

>>724919067
Nta, but theory that will never reflect reality is worthless and not at all worth discussion. What does it matter if the police can in principal protect everyone if they never actually will?

>>724919316
Its not, its just a sentence mixing shitpost. What's not included here is the cutaway gag of Kimball saying "pay taxes" and getting domed.

>>724911095 (OP)
House ends up collecting taxes himself if he wins, so this is doubly funny.

>>724911713
He literally describes himself as an autocrat. He's on the other end of the fucking spectrum from a libertarian.

>>724919325
Not him, but at the end of the day a system is what it does, not what it claims to do. So if police either can't or won't protect the common citizenry...

>>724919464
thats not what autocrat means brainlet. Its not "authoritarian" because it sounds similar.
>>724919325
>>724919468
police literally cannot defend citizenry, they are not a defence force like the military, whose job is to protect against external threats.
The police's job is to appear after the crime and tally the dead.

>>724919464
Not the other end of the spectrum, that would be Caesar. House is mostly libertarian, moreso than the other options (with the possible exception of you). He's just not that ideologically devoted to the concept of libertarianism. He leaves people alone most of the time because he honestly care what they do as long as it isn't impeding his plan for human progress. However he is more than willing to step on people's rights if it gets him what he wants.

>>724919613
He intended a centralised economy under his sole control, you are retarded. You hear authoritarian and autocrat and think "man that guy wants to stop me from jacking off!" That is not what that means.

>>724919675
*honestly doesn't care

>fake libertarians think the yes man ending is libertarian not House
lolol
>>724919693
t. actual retard, his entire plan is to boost the NCR economy lol, another economy and mutually benefit.
You faggots either do not play the game or are just mental cases

>>724919325
It matters because when we're asking "why is _ wrong?" it's a question of moral principle, not practical reality. First you have to decide what is right and wrong based on principles, and then look at how to achieve what is right within the constraints of reality.

>>724919693
Its funny, House is actually incredibly similar ideologically to what Bill Gates, Klaus Schwabb, and most of the WEF guys believe. "You should give me all the capital and do what I say because I'm the most qualified to run everything.". The only difference is that he takes a hands off approach to social issues and isn't an environmentalist (mainly because Earth is a lost cause in fallout).

>>724919770
His entire plan is for New Vegas to be independent and under his control, in his victory round he literally rules the place with an iron fist and collects harsh taxes, he's not a libertarian, he may have been one before the war, but he sure as shit doesn't intend to be one going into the future. He has literally zero respect for the NCR and is only working with them because Caesar's Legion is worse. The only libertarian thing about him is that he's not going to stop you from jacking off.

>>724919810
If something always fails and gets a lot of people hurt whenever its attempted then its wrong, even if its the most saintlike concept in theory. Anything else is utopian thinking which will kill millions.

>>724919915
No, his entire plan is a trade pact with the NCR so he can grow the NCR and they can pour money into the Strip, that he will then use to save humanity via space colonisation.
Hes an autocrat as in he is the ruler of his little domain but not an authoritarian or fascist.

Thats his big plan a trade pact and you people think hes evil lol
Just closet commies seething at rich capitalist man bad.

>>724920067
>No, his entire plan is a trade pact with the NCR so he can grow the NCR and they can pour money into the Strip
That's what he tells you, but it's not what happens after you kick the NCR out for him.
>Hes an autocrat as in he is the ruler of his little domain but not an authoritarian or fascist.
"He's an authoritarian and a fascist, but he's letting me jack off so it's fine!"
You people are politically illiterate, no wonder you can't even identify the problems with your own governments. They were right about the plebeians, not good for anything but labor.

>>724919976
The entire point of what I'm saying is that you should not mix up theory and reality. If your takeaway is that I'm saying "do something because in theory it could turn out well" then you've failed to understand me. I'll repeat a part of my second sentence:
>look at how to achieve what is right within the constraints of reality

>>724920237
>thats what he tells you but uh hes secretly lying! i have no proof of this i saw it in a dream!
i accept your concession.

>>724920067
His plan is to gain full economic control of the NCR so he can use it to fuel his industry. What we see in NV is just the first step.

>>724920302
It's literally in the ending slides of the game. I just assumed you'd actually played it, but I have to remember that this is /v/ and we don't play video games here.

>>724911095 (OP)
New Vegas is proto woke
Now post all of the faggot shit in this game
Outer worlds 2 was the natural end point

>>724919907
If WEF policies weren't all completely buttfuck retarded and/or evil I might be a bit more on board, yeah

>>724920342
Its not economic control, he wants to stimulate or boost their economy so he can benefit from the NCR citizens spending their money at his casinos.
God damn what an evil man he wants everyone to prosper and offer a holiday destination.
This is why we NEED communism

>>724920283
I read what you said, and I'm saying you've got the order backwards. You should look at reality first, at what's achievable, then pick the best option from that. Othewise you get eternal failures like communism where people keep saying "that wasn't real communism, surely this time will be different".

Theory is a plague that invents evil ideologies. All that matters is practicality.

>>724920360
no it isnt, stop lying.

>>724920458
I never even said I think House is wrong. Just that what he's doing isn't libertarianism. I actually think he's the best chance humanity's got at a future.

And anon, the strip is small time. He has much bigger ambitions. He wants to be corporate oligarch of the world. Sure he may only have direct legal control of Vegas, but he'll have de facto control of everything through economic power. Basically a much much bigger version of what he had before the war, only minus any competition from shadow governments or other billionaires.

>>724920416
You should know that no one in WEF is actually qualified to run anything and don't have anyone's interests at heart but their own. All their proposed policies and visions for the future are geared specifically to enrich and empower themselves, nothing more. When you're that wealthy, the only entertaining pastime is world domination apparently.

>>724920529
He's right though. House's securitrons basically conquer the whole Mojave after you win the battle of hoover dam.

>>724920642
i dont get what you dont understand about free market principals some how being a centralised control economy

>>724920416
WEF policies are made by people who are so far removed from the day to day business of reality that they seriously view all of civilization as a series of levers they can pull to do whatever they want it to.

>>724920702
nope

> Mr. House's Securitron army took control of Hoover Dam and the Strip, pushing both the Legion and the exhausted NCR out of New Vegas. Mr. House continued to run New Vegas his way, a despotic vision of pre-War glory. The streets were orderly, efficient, cold. New Vegas continued to be the sole place in the wasteland where fortunes were won and lost in the blink of an eye.

>>724911095 (OP)
>people will call this based and then support the united states cucking its own citizens through tariffs

>>724920459
Rejecting theory altogether leads to inconsistency and arbitrary rules. It leads directly to the state of the world as it exists today.
Theory relates to principles and axioms. Stabbing an innocent person is wrong because it is aggression, and we have a theoretical construct that says aggression is bad. Without a theory of right and wrong there's no objective criteria to judge actions.

>>724920458
>He's totally a good guy, don't pay attention to his harsh tax policy or the securitrons shooting people for protesting
My nigger in christ he is effectively a medieval king lording over his serfs. Pay attention to what he does. Nobody in NV is in the right or doing what they say they're doing, it's all spin because they want the Courier to work for them, all are guilty.

>>724920714
it'd be easier to understand if what you write didn't amount to nonsensical ESL gibberish

>>724914365
Not particularly. Modern "hacktivist" writers are egregiously disingenuous and sloppily hamfist their own personal beliefs into a game and try their damndest to delegitimize anyone with an opinion 1% different than their own by turning them into a strawman designed to be shat on.
Do you think anyone nowadays could actually write a guy like Joshua Graham? They'd see in the AI generated notes that he's a Mormon and make him homophobic, transphobic, have a 70iq, and also racist and genocidal instead of an intricately written character struggling with his past demons. A man torn between warlord and peacemaker. Conqueror and righteous defender.
If Honest Hearts were written by modern day Bethesda, or even modern day Obsidian, the Sorrows and Dead Horses would both reject Daniel and Joshua respectively because one of the blue haired 24 year old english major female writers hated their Christian dad for scolding them after they took their 23rd cock.

>>724920656
Its not just that. Some of that is them enforcing their firmly held convictions on the world. Really I think they've convinces themselves that the world is in great peril (from itself) and that its their duty to save the world (by ruling it with an iron fist).

Anyways, house is fundamentally the same. He just has a different set of values he wants to enforce on the world. Those being laissez faire capitalism and the lifestyle of a 20th century playboy.

>>724920714
not being i should say.
>>724920812
no you are retarded you are calling a free market trade agreement "fascism/communism" you actual illiterate spastic.

>>724920873
>a free market trade agreement
there's nothing free or agreeable about House's takeover of Vegas.
>"fascism/communism"
you're the one spazzing about communism in between bouts of other nonsense coming from your shit-stained fingers

>>724920993
You are an idiot suffering from dunning kruger, you are just shovelling your own hysteric views into the script.
Theres two economies NCR and New Vegas, house wants these to mutually benefit through trade essentially.
Nothing about this is a centralised command economy, you are just making that up to insist House is an authoritarian

>>724920845
They would only be firmly held convictions if they practiced what they preached, but when you have them literally saying we should euthanise old people while recusing themselves from the condition because they're "still useful :)", you have to start wondering if they're not simply malicious.

>>724921086
you're a retarded shitskin that cannot form a coherent sentence, you should kill yourself and not pollute this 70IQ board with your garbage

>>724920793
>Stabbing an innocent person is wrong because it is aggression, and we have a theoretical construct that says aggression is bad
Stabbing an innocent person is wrong because any person who isn't a psychopath could tell you its wrong, because no one wants to get stabbed, and because it prevents society from functioning if its allowed to happen.

>. It leads directly to the state of the world as it exists today.
The world I live in is pretty nice all things considered. Sure it has its problems, but its a lot better than it was 100 years ago. It could stand to have improvements, but those are in execution and eliminating bad actors, not in playing around with political theory and plotting revolutions. And much of the problems we do have are the fault of over reaching absolute theory.

Most things in society are either plainly obvious or have been learned by experience. People figured out murder was wrong before written language or the concept of theory existed. We don't need theory to tell us its wrong.

>>724918763
But technology hasn't changed nearly as much between now and then.

>>724921156
>vegas
and again its not authoritarianism

guys is new vegas really the best in the series? even after doing that wobhibhnoweirfjweofj whatever mod i found the gameplay janky.

>>724921172
you are a low iq dunning kruger poltard, go shill for failstine and screech about jews you monkey

>>724921289
It literally is.
>but uhh
It is. Autocracy is authoritarian. He's not a libertarian and you cannot provide a single example proving he is beyond "b-b-but he said he wants to boost the NCR economy!"

Yeah, he sure boosted them alright, all the way out of the fucking Mojave.

>>724920873
Its not communism nor is it fascism. Its something between authoritarian capitalism (think Pinochet's Argentina or Malaysia) and cronie capitalism (modern america). The people would be deprived of their ability to control government and to compete with Mr House, mostly through bribes, and house would use this monopoly to advance his industries.

>>724921332
you don't get to call people monkeys when you are less literate than a call center pajeet.

kill yourself and remove your filthy presence

>>724921306
Only its writing is "good", its gameplay is irrevocably FO3 with a couple more bells and whistles attached. After clearing such a low bar, the early consensus that NV was the best thing since sliced bread was set in stone, and everybody coming in after that just agrees with it out of social obligation and a need for belonging.

>>724921306
Its my favorite, but the first two games are also really good. All of them have janky gameplay though. That's just how RPGs are.

>>724921393
no it isnt Autocracy and authoritarian are two different words and concepts.
House makes it clear hes not about ordering people around.

If I wanted to play this game for the first time and play it as it was designed to be experienced, as in get the most intended experience, what mods should I install? And any weapon mods that keep their original look? I remember playing it for 15 years ago for a few hours and man those animations were corny as hell. All animations looked goofy even back then.

>>724921620
Circling back around to me having to explain to you that you are politically illiterate

>>724921636
This is such a fucking scam. It's like 200 dollars and it's just another fucking steam key, so you're just buying all the other stuff with it.

>>724914349
>Nor would he kill the King's for refusing to be loyal to him.
He would kill them for signing an alliance with an invading army seeing to weasel their way into having a foothold and a claim to annexing freeside.
next time just fucking kill the "charity operation" and Kings will live and be rewarded.

>>724921620
>House makes it clear hes not about ordering people around.
Except when doing so is in his best interest.

>>724914349
>filling in people's houses with concrete
When was this said?

>>724921736
Even if you don't broker the peace deal, he still kills them. He only spares them if you specifically start a war.

>>724921797
haven't you visited the vault?

>>724921797
Vault 22

>>724921620
>House makes it clear hes not about ordering people around.
This part isn't even true, he ordered the tribals to behave a certain way, he even has you kill them when he finds out they're breaking his rules. You are the kind of retard that falls for bullshit like Fortified Democracy.

>>724921864
No, I've only done one playthrough where I sided with the NCR and didn't give House the chip
Also I didn't get why Benny didn't just give House the chip if he had it this whole time
Also also I didn't get how the Legion had omniscient jannies everywhere to see what I was doing

>>724921250
Half of what you're talking about is just internalized theory.
>Stabbing an innocent person is wrong because any person who isn't a psychopath could tell you its wrong, because no one wants to get stabbed
Look at pic-related. 99% of human history is total savagery, not because people were born psychopaths but because they did not develop a theory of right and wrong. The Golden Rule? Theory.
>The world I live in is pretty nice all things considered. Sure it has its problems, but its a lot better than it was 100 years ago.
The world is nice because of technology and the rule of law. The rule of law applies consistent, universal (theory-based) rules. However there are also many inconsistent parts of society that result in injustice and suffering.
>And much of the problems we do have are the fault of over reaching absolute theory.
No, it's the fault of over reaching statism/collectivism.
>People figured out murder was wrong before written language or the concept of theory existed.
Theory doesn't require writing. All abstractions are theory.

>>724921960
>Also I didn't get why Benny didn't just give House the chip if he had it this whole time

>>724921960
Shit, dude, you got 1 INT

>>724921995
hory shittu and these people can vote in my cunt
It's so over

>>724921995
>Aboriginals
>"human history"

>>724921914
>I have no interest in abusing others, just as I have no interest in legislating or otherwise dictating what people do in their private time. - House

>>724922080
>>724922145
don't bully me ;-;

>>724921995
>"boy-wives"
Fucking LMAO why was this consistently a thing in history? This isn't even unique to abos, Romans were forcing their boyfriends to swallow their loads at the peak of their civilisation.

>>724921995
>All abstractions are theory.
This is the fundamental point of our disagreement. To me, theory is when a person (usually over educated in a university which is far removed from the real world) comes up with a fantasy world full of spherical cow logic to codify spherical cow logic into a system that doesn't fit with reality, so he can then attempt to enforce it on reality. Sort of like you've been doing.

Abstractions are just abstractions, they aren't automatically theory.

>>724922281
romans didnt think people were human until they became adults

>>724911095 (OP)
This is literally a mod and a meme you stupid fucking cunt

>>724922206
You think other tribal societies weren't brutal? In fact we don't even need to go to tribal, European history is full of people killing each other. The reason I'm talking about tribes is because they're a picture of how people act with minimal abstract influences.

>>724922308
>To me, theory is when a person (usually over educated in a university which is far removed from the real world) comes up with a fantasy world full of spherical cow logic to codify spherical cow logic into a system that doesn't fit with reality
Well then of course you hate it, since you've turned it into a loaded concept.

>>724922213
That's what he says. Then he turns around and says this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09hU7UTKomk

>>724921687
>>724921636
>Rorschach's test cards
why?
Why not a poster, a deck of cards, gomorrah flavored condom.
>>724921830
well maybe NCR should repatriate their retarded citizens or make them smash rocks to pay off debts instead of letting them squat and stink up freeside any further.
>>724921797
Vault 21 was filled with concrete because tunnels ran into places house didn't like them running, plus he wanted there to be an incentive to stay at the casino hotels instead of cooped up in a vault-tec vault experiment. House won Vault 21 in a traditional gambling conflict resolution so he was in his right to do whatever with it. Turned into a hotel
>>724922213
Eating people was an explicit contract violation by the white gloves, the omertas conspiring to do a chlorine gas attack was probably an explicit contract violation
>Hey, you get food water, clothes, and money to run a business within parameters I provide in exchange you don't conspire to eat people or commit acts of terrorism
>conspires to commit terrorism and eats people
>gets summarily executed for contract violations
WTF BUGGED HOUSE MECHANICS?

>>724922369
They did it to boys AND men, it was apparently considered very masculine to have a boyfriend and fuck them. Maybe they got it from the greeks?

>>724911095 (OP)
>the older games in question

>>724922576
>Eating people was an explicit contract violation by the white gloves, the omertas conspiring to do a chlorine gas attack was probably an explicit contract violation
If you use semitics- Sorry, I mean semantics, you could technically say that a contract is not legislation, so he's totally a libertarian still, just don't sign the contract bro!

>>724921636
+1

>>724922485
>Well then of course you hate it, since you've turned it into a loaded concept.
I've only ever seen the term used to justify some of the most horrific and idiotic shit in the modern era (ancient era too if we want to count Sparta).

People who quote theory have turned it into a loaded concept.

Meanwhile most groups who just go by whatever works in reality, tend to be the most level headed and the least likely to kill millions.

>new vegas is now "older"
I want zoomers to go and stay go.

>>724922576
>well maybe NCR should repatriate their retarded citizens or make them smash rocks to pay off debts instead of letting them squat and stink up freeside any further.

>NCR citizens are squatting in freeside
>I better go in there and kill all the native Freesiders
>What? Of course I'm not getting rid of the NCR citizens on the strip,

>>724922520
they made a contract. They violated it. Its fair.

>>724922576
so all this proves was House was so disinterested in meddling in peoples affairs he was unaware they were violating their contractual agreements.

>>724922710
If you want to have a pilpul duel and show off your talmudic judaism studies we can argue that House being the de-facto proprietor and ruler of the strip by current presence of securitron army is the governing body of the strip thus the "contracts" he signs with tribals or strip businesses are legislature.

>>724911095 (OP)
To be entirely fair, NO ONE likes paying taxes. This is a "human experience" joke.

>>724923207
If House behaved the way people on /v/ demand, the Strip would be
>terrorists chlorine-bombing main street for short term benefit (that they dont even get, they're backstabbed)
>cannibals turning tourists into food for their gay little cult
>hacked securitrons that remove all order from the area as you may no longer trust the resident military robots
>a Lucky 38 stormed by the NCR, House killed, entire building converted into a refugee shelter or something
>Followers trying to help any victim of the above and ultimately being bogged down by drug addicts who don't want help
>an even more oppressive system than what separates Freeside from the Strip (if you think brahmin barons would be fairer than House you are insane)
And all of this is assuming the Legion doesn't just erode the area, be it the Strip, Dam or Lake Mead, until they have enough leverage to genocide everybody. House is completely broken as a character. It's why that Amazon show is propping him up like a god, they apparently did some remedial research and came to the conclusion everyone else did.

>>724923109
Sure, but it happens to mean that his line about not caring what people do is bullshit, since he quite clearly cares a great deal if his contracts have a clause specifically ruling out cannibalism.

>>724923594
I have no idea why people think libertarianism equates to no rules whatsoever

>>724922935
Stop listening to collectivists and you'll stop seeing it used to justify atrocity. The modern concept of rights stem from the work of an academic, without which rulers would "pragmatically" murder anyone who voices dissent.

>>724923207
It's outright stated that House taxes independent operators on the Strip 50%. He absolutely devastates the bottom lines of the people working on the Strip, but of course fails to meddle in the important things like multiple simultaneous plots to coup his government.

>>724923046
NCR citizens are spending money until their excesses land them in freeside where they are a burden that exists only to justify the intervention of the NCR military.
Do I need to explain why rich tourists are good for your economy but destitute niggers demanding a military intervention to help them because they're being abused at your doorstep is bad?
>>724923046
>>I better go in there and kill all the native Freesiders
Being native (actually already booted out by house once for not signing up for LARPing along as a strip family) doesn't give them a special position for being in the way of House's ambitions.
Primm is left alone with Meyers or Primm slimm as sheriff but gets extra taxes if they side with the losing NCR.
>>724923505
I think people are butthurt over GI blues because they thought the quest is about making everyone hold hands and sing koombaya when it's actually paving the way for annexation of freeside by demographic displacement.
Native freeside is already a lawless literal shithole where sociopath twins from a criminal dynasty sell energy weapons to anyone who can afford them another pair of twins runs a brothel, bar, casino hotel; there are kids running around hunting and eating rats raw, gourmet chefs like genaro serving mystery meat™, a variety store selling chlorine, guns, general trash, and a anarcho-bleeding heart charity operation while a group of elvis impersonator inbetween learning to dress like elvis shoots people so they don't eat tourists on the way to the strip.

The house always wins.

>>724923648
>no rules at all
That's not the issue. He said he doesn't care what people do in private, and doesn't care about legislature, but he has done both of these things concerning the White Glove Society. Just because he styles Vegas as a business instead of a government doesn't mean he isn't doing things a government would do. A corporation doesn't collect taxes, but House does.

He's not a libertarian, regardless of what he says, his actions paint a different picture. New Vegas is full of this, everything that everybody says to the Courier is a lie to get him on their side. Even the ending slides pretty much prove he's little better than the others vying for the Strip. It's all about power, figurative and literal.

>>724923648
most of these people are anarchist commies larping as libertarians.
You can tell because they baulk at the idea of property ownership, flip out at capitalism and think everything is "authoritarianism"

>>724923764
libertarianism seeks to abolish da gubmint from interfering in people's contracts and agreements instead relying on kindness of human heart™, non aggression principle® and invisible hand of the free market© for fairness and justice.

In real life government would prevent me from buying surgeon's time to cut out a kidney I paid for from a man willing to sell his kidney for an art project (my kidney dinner)

>>724923505
>a Lucky 38 stormed by the NCR, House killed, entire building converted into a refugee shelter or something
The Lucky 38 would be turned into a luxury penthouse for the wealthiest NCR tourists with a 50 yard perimeter enforced by thugs in recycled Enclave power armor.

>>724924069
your argument is basically
>house does anything hes wrong or a hypocrite
because you are a sociopath

>>724911095 (OP)
How badly will the TV show ruin him?

>>724923776
I'll concede that there is a place for theory. I just think you should come up with theories based on reality, rather than try to make a reality based on theory.

>>724921636
Tammer's Nif Bashed weapon/armor packs, they take up little space and mostly follow the balance and aesthetic of the base game. There's also the hitman animation packs, which have a patch for the Tammer weapons.

>>724924230
House doing what he's doing isn't right or wrong, it just means he isn't what he says he is. He's not necessarily hypocritical either, the man is an actual midwit, his highest skills are Charisma and Luck, not Intelligence.

>>724924249
He's already in the tv show

House isn't libertarian. He's a dictator who believes in a market economy and.
His life-prolonging tech lets him avoid the biggest danger of dictatorships - a competent one being replaced by an incompetent successor.

>>724924196
>relying on kindness of human heart™, non aggression principle® and invisible hand of the free market© for fairness and justice
There's also the imminent danger of you getting brutally blackballed from the community or outright blasted if you fuck someone over.

>>724914349
WE GOT ONE

>>724924290
but you are stretching the truth doing things like
>a contractual business agreement is actually legislation
>free trade is actually authoritarian
its bullshit you are trying to paint House as a liar and a hypocrite.
>>724924347
>dictator
>market economy

>>724924347
>He's a dictator who believes in a market economy
So, a libertarian.

>>724924428
>>dictator
>market economy
Hop on the helicopter and I'll show you how it works.

>>724924480
you are retarded

>>724924258
All theories are based on reality if you want to be picky enough. You can't say "aggression is wrong" without having a word for aggression that comes from observing it in the real world.
The US was founded on theoretical principles, and was originally far more restrictive on what government could do. Over time politicians found "practical" ways to erode Consitutional restrictions until the commerce clause became an open invitation to meddle in private affairs and engage in corruption.

>>724924290
>his highest skills are Charisma and Luck, not Intelligence.
which you know because you read the wiki like not even a secondary but a tertriary tumor.
Special stats you never see in gameplay that clearly were all premeditated with extreme care
Boone's int puts him in the mental retardation bracket yet he forms coherent sentences.
I can imagine Josh Sawyer saying to his team
>hey guys, remember to put great care into every NPC's SPECIAL stat distribution visible only with console commands or diggging around in GECK so gay nerds 15 years later will score epic gotchas like Snuffles the molerat having higher int than Caesar or House not being all that smart.
>>724924347
That is assuming the con is a simple and obvious one rather than a long running and subtle

>pick 1 int 10 charisma
>thought it was going to be a hilarious run where this braindead retard charms everyone
>dialogue options barely change
wtf

>>724924947
18 month dev time please understand

>>724923505
Would Noelle say this? She seems more like the type to simp for the legion.

>>724924947
Maybe there's a mod for it I don't know

>>724916314
>After Trump, everyone started outrage baiting to try and mimic his success.
Trump also led to a bunch of celebrities thinking they could become President some day just based on being famous.

They forget that Trump isn't just the Apprentice guy that just acted in TV/movies like them, but actually spent decades running a large company so him running a business empire helped prepare him for running the Executive branch of government.

>>724923915
>doesn't give them a special position for being in the way of House's ambitions.
House having ambitions that requiring him initiating aggression to fulfill do make him not a libertarian though.

is it really profound to have a disdain for paying taxes?
i feel like that's a pretty normal reaction and not exactly political

>>724924817
>All theories are based on reality if you want to be picky enough
I think we're in agreement then. I just think you should revise your opening statement, because it very much sounded like you were trying to say theory comes before reality, rather than the other way around.
>The US was founded on theoretical principles, and was originally far more restrictive on what government could do
It also spent the first 20 or so years of its existence constantly on the verge of implosion. A lot of those erosions were necessary to keep the greater sum of freedoms afloat.

>>724925096
>Trump also led to a bunch of celebrities thinking they could become President some day just based on being famous.
He was hardly the first celebrity president. Reagan did it first. And most presidents were already famous one way or another before they ran.

>>724925276
you get people like leftists that love taxes, even advocate for more taxes, even for themselves because they are morons

>>724924428
>its bullshit you are trying to paint House as a liar and a hypocrite.
I'm painting him as a midwit who's desperate to convince the Courier to take his side by telling him what he wants to hear.

>>724924069
Anon this is the most retarded thing I’ve ever read on this site. I feel like it has to be bait. Please be bait.

>>724911095 (OP)
Taxes are a core issue that spans all civilizations. Identity politics is contrived social-engineering bullshit that nobody wants to hear.

>>724925497
House isn't a "midwit" hes a legitimate genius.
>telling courier what he wants to hear.
Thats not House's personality. Hes frank about everything.

>>724925416
Reagan at least worked himself up to the presidency by getting previous experience in politics such as becoming governor of California. Trump went straight to being President, and there's no denying him becoming President is why we got stuff like Kanye West thinking he could be President as well.

>>724911354
/v/ would have a Far Cry 5 style meltdown over VTMB replacing Bush with Trump lmao

>>724925296
>It also spent the first 20 or so years of its existence constantly on the verge of implosion. A lot of those erosions were necessary to keep the greater sum of freedoms afloat.
We're taught that they're necessary, but that doesn't mean the academic authorities who say this are correct about that. I don't think they are.
>I just think you should revise your opening statement, because it very much sounded like you were trying to say theory comes before reality, rather than the other way around.
What I was saying is that "why is _ wrong" should be based on generalized, consistent principles, because otherwise you are mixing up theory and practicality. You objected by acting like I was completely dismissing practicality.

>>724925096
how many people know the theory that the only reason Trump ran was because of Gwen Stefani

>>724925679
You shouldn’t need political experience to be president. Career politicians are a disease.

>>724914349
Libertarian here, I would do all of these. I’m just one of the few honest ones.

>>724925473
crazy
especially when we all know what retarded things this gay country spends its tax money on

>>724925696
The political climates of then and now are completely different you fucking retard. That's like saying the things JFK was saying would brand him an authoritarian dictator if he said it today.

>>724925829
John Carmack wrote an essay on taxes and it triggered leftards on the Doom forums so hard they censored it

>>724925876
https://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/threads/entreprenuer-john-carmack-on-the-government-and-taxes.39077/

here it is top post

>>724911095 (OP)
No, that's not what people were saying. It was.
>Older games didn't have identity politics
Basically, the New Pol shit, where people think that important decisions and who should get special treatment are all based around minorities. Politics are everyday life, but somewhere along the way (mid 2000), idiots that thought if we just let the government become a daycare, it would improve the day to day life of the average citizen. Of course, the logical end point happened instead, that the idiots would be propped up by more idiots.
>Vote for me, or the free ride ends
Oh, I wonder what is going to happen

>>724921495
I always considered the gameplay improvements to be somewhat wasted since even though the story is better, the exploration in NV always felt much worse than in 3. The Capital Wasteland has more varied areas to explore than the Mojave, and thats before taking explorable landmarks into account. Fallout 3 had all sorts of areas for the player to explore unconnected to any quests, where with NV most non quest landmarks were just one room shacks or small caves

>>724925750
A lot of politics isn't just the actual work of being in office but simply building up a network of connections. Making connections is both important in high level business positions as well as politics, so even if Trump seems like he's ignoring work to go play golf or something there's a good chance he's inviting other powerful people to play with him and building up his network of connections in the process.

>>724918030
I remember getting into a argument with someone when I said that I don't support the military industrial complex, which only has eyes on the oil. If they really wanted things to get better in the world, I said that they needed to destroy the religion. They denied that the war was about the oil and that Islam had a right to exist. I guess we all know who won that argument in the end.

>>724926104
You shouldn't expect a plebeian to understand this. There's a reason politics ages a man by decades in a fraction of the time.

>>724919613
>It's not "authoritarian" because it sounds similar
This is maximum pedantry. All autocracies are authoritarian.

>>724919907
Technically no because House advocates for the ideology of himself because he is, by and large, an actual supergenius and is also a shrewd industrialist and inventor rather than a glorified manager with alot of fingers in alot of pies. House quite literally, designs, builds and funds everything he makes. None of your examples are remotely similar. He is the philosophical position for the advocacy of an autocracy.

>>724926252
>All autocracies are authoritarian.
100% false

>>724925741
>We're taught that they're necessary, but that doesn't mean the academic authorities who say this are correct about that. I don't think they are.
I meant stuff like taxes, a standing army, and federal supremacy. I agree there's a limit, which we have passed, but there is an acceptable amount of freedoms to give up. Otherwise we wouldn't bother with government at all.

>should be based on generalized, consistent principles, because otherwise you are mixing up theory and practicality
In that case I guess I still disagree. I think thoery and practicallly should be kept close together because they need each other. If you make a theory without practicality in mind, then try to make it practical post-hoc, you're just going to make a mess. When making theory, you should be thinking about the real practical applications it would have. As well as its limitations.

>>724925876
Even outside that Carmack "triggered leftards" by going to a sci-fi convention that billed itself as anti-woke. Keep in mind it doesn't seem like Carmack was trying to make any political statement by doing this, he just wanted to go to a sci-fi convention and when he ignored the left's outrage that just made them even more pissed off because they're used to getting what they want due to performative outrage.

>>724926298
>100% false
What, that's literally impossible unless you literally don't know the definition of the terms being used

>>724925967
I'm more interested in seeing the reaction it got

>>724926430
https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/67099-john-carmacks-politics/

>>724926430
i imagine a ton of people going "but muh healthcare, muh research, muh regulation and safety" without an regard to how efficiently that spending does to help those fields

>>724926243
Part of the reason rich people want their kids going to prestigious Ivy League schools isn't for the education, or even because it will look good on their resume, but simply because going to these schools gives you access to other rich and powerful people that they want their kids to build connections with.

For example Mark Zuckerberg is often treated as a financial success story but the reality is that when he first started Facebook he was losing millions every year for the first couple of years But his unprofitable business was getting funded due to someone's dad he met at his time in Harvard.

So if you're some anti-social NEET who never talks to anyone you probably won't be getting some rich Harvard Jew bankrolling your failing business until it becomes profitable the way Zuck did.

>>724926697
>My core thesis is that the federal government delivers very poor value for the resources it consumes, and that society as a whole would be better off with a government that was less ambitious
This is what also really set them off, I don't think they really comprehend or just misconstrued what Carmack was stating with that sentence because it is also undoubtedly true, the government is the biggest waster in resources in any given nation-state.

>>724926867
from what i recall they misconstrued his essay to be racism lol.
This was when cancel culture was kicking off, and everything was racism.

>>724926848
He also fucked over his business partners so bad that he has garnered a very bad reputation.

>>724926310
>I meant stuff like taxes, a standing army, and federal supremacy.
I agree with those things, perhaps a bit less so federal supremacy. I agree with it on matters of defense, but otherwise I think federal power is a major problem.

>If you make a theory without practicality in mind, then try to make it practical post-hoc, you're just going to make a mess.
I really think it's the opposite. If you keep mixing in reality then you muddy the issue and people come up with inconsistent answers. Let's return to the "is a government monopoly on violence wrong" example. It would be wrong in theory if it necessarily results in bad things. That allows us to immediately disqualify it in a way that could be internalized and applied consistently across all governments, no matter how circumstances change. If you instead base your argument solely on results, it comes down to facts of reality that people often have different beliefs about.
Pic-related shows an example of how it's hard to come to correct conclusions about something by just looking at the current results. I don't want to argue about the policy itself here, just illustrate a situation.

>>724925527
Taxes is the wellspring of the state.

>>724926867
>I don't think they really comprehend or just misconstrued what Carmack was stating
That's by design. It's a kneejerk psychological reaction due to a deficiency in critical thinking and an overemphasis on collectivist ideals, both of which are inflicted on the vast majority of people through public schooling. All a government has to do at that point is present itself as "the people", and just like that you've rerouted a person's self preservation instinct to the state apparatus.

>>724927040
The state having the monopoly on violence is in theory not entirely wrong. That is what requires it to have any semblance of capability and authority as a body politic.

>>724926867
>My core thesis is that the federal government delivers very poor value for the resources it consumes
This is one of the core tenets of capitalism. Companies need competition or they tend to turn to shit. For an example of this in government look at the shitty quality of public school lunches.

Since they pretty much have a monopoly on what kids will eat for lunch they don't have to really try. If a public school cafeteria tried to be a real business it'd never survive since most people would look at the shitty food and go to McDonald's or something instead. This is the same with prison food. They don't have to even try to make the food good because where else are the prisoners gonna go?

>>724927376
its weird how the US has school lunches when in Ausfailia we brought our own. There was typically a small shop for spoilt rich brats to buy junk food and treats at high prices.

>>724927260
Well, I wonder if we differ on how we're taking the word "monopoly." My justification for not wanting that is:
(in theory)
A government monopoly on violence NECESSARILY means violating my right to bear arms.
(in practicality)
A government monopoly on violence enables oppression.

The original comment that sparked all this mentioned a second practical concern: that police are inept at protecting citizens. But there are people who would disagree with that, and anyways it's just an EFFECT of violating the theoretical right to bear arms.

>>724927524
>its weird how the US has school lunches when in Ausfailia we brought our own
It's common for kids to bring their own lunches to school in the US as well. But since school cafeteria lunches get subsidized it's usually just cheaper and less work to have the kids buy their school lunch from the cafeteria (and in many instances if the government thinks your family is poor enough they will just give the kids lunch for free).

>>724927524
Not that anon but the idea is very sound. Being able to at least curate what children can be eating in a school (which is mandatory) is very beneficial to shape their nutrition and diet. But good God, the US spends so much on the education sector more than ANY nation on earth by such an insane large degree but it doesn't translate into academic performances in aggregate. It's just all wasted into a moneypit that apparently needs more funding.

>>724927376
How is it capitalism when it's the government who decides the single supplier and artificially creates a monopoly?
It's crony capitalism at best.

>>724927040
>and people come up with inconsistent answers.
Reality often demands things be handled on a case by case basis, which usually means inconsistent answers are the only answers that actually just work. Not saying that they are desirable, just that often there is no logically consistent principle based solution to a problem.

Getting back to the idea of the state having a monopoly on violence. The answer is that it depends on circumstance. Like in prisons, it usually is necessary to have a monopoly on violence to maintain order and prevent the convicts from escaping. I'm sure the warden of the NCRCF wishes he had kept his monopoly on violence, as do the people who now have to deal with violent gangs of convicts every day. Conversely, I'm sure no citizen of the NCR would ever want the state to have a monopoly on violence, because there's no way, even operating at peak efficiency with everyone's best interests at heart, that it could keep all the people in all that land safe.

Shifting your example to an in game one. I don't see how else the traders in the NCR selling goods made by workers paid wages for their labor would be able to compete with goods made using legion slave labor than through tariffs or complete import bans, unless you wanted to legalize slavery in the NCR.

>>724927524
from my experience with public schooling most kids had their parents prepare lunches and those who had school lunches were either too lazy to set a lunch, or too poor (in which they got it for free anyway)
thanks pops for lying about how much you made so i got free food for a half my time in grade school

>>724927768
The police is there as the state's institution to carry and enforce its laws. It being inept and corrupt is a failing of that rather than an inevitability. You can't arrive to that false conclusion and use it as the basis for your argument.

The perfect political system is one that exclusively benefits me at the expense of everyone who isn't me. It's time for everyone to accept the truth: that I am the only person who matters.

>>724927768
>police are inept at protecting citizens
American cops in training are regularly shown videos of what seems like a typical traffic stop but then the person they're dealing with randomly takes out a gun and kills the cop. This conditions American police to be paranoid as fuck that the same might happen to them.

This is why you get so many cases of some guy reaching for his wallet or something and the cop freaking out assuming it's a gun so he shoots up the person who did nothing wrong.

>>724927972
if you remove citizens right to defend themselves, you get anarcho-tyranny, where violence agaibst citizens is normalised because they cant do anything about it, at the same time the police feel more comfortable oppressing citizens because they cant do anything,
Police at this point are just an army against the citizens.

>>724928060
I'm not arguing for the complete removal of citizen's right of self-defense, neither am I wanting for the state to abolish the fucking police like you have positioned yourself to want (that's how you get warlordism). Equilibrium has always been the key here, one that veers slightly for the citizen's freedoms than the police.

>>724928192
im another anon. I actually think the police should be disbanded

>>724928058
Well you also have a very strong anti-police culture in the US that is also fomented by the zeitgeist. It's the perfect recipe for a jumpy LEO.

>>724928058
Good. It's easy to obey law enforcement. It's actually difficult to start doing what I call the nigger slide where you slither about waving your arms, just don't move.

>>724928242
Paramiltiary groups will be the result of the police being disbanded. This is not an opinion, this is a fact.

>>724926541
>2014
how did it become infested with commies so early?

>>724928349
not really when everyone is armed.

>>724928376
Anon...

>>724928058
The thing is people often do shoot cops like that, hence the existence of said training videos to begin with. America is a violent country full of violent people.

>>724928410
yes anon you are retarded, paramilitaries and gangs only exist when they have a monopoly on violence.
Everyone being armed means no one is in a unique position.

>>724927941
>Reality often demands things be handled on a case by case basis, which usually means inconsistent answers are the only answers that actually just work. Not saying that they are desirable, just that often there is no logically consistent principle based solution to a problem.
I very strongly disagree with this. Handling things case by case is at best a last resort when you can't think through the cases in advance. Normally it results in anarcho-tyranny and corruption.
>in prisons, it usually is necessary to have a monopoly on violence to maintain order and prevent the convicts from escaping
That's because the prisoners are by nature aggressors. You can't have a general state of non-aggression by giving violent power to aggressors.
>Shifting your example to an in game one...
This gets into economics which is really a whole different beast. I'll briefly give a two-part answer:
1. You don't inherently have to compete with Legion labor. There is not a finite quantity of jobs in the economy.
2. Slavery is aggression, so it may make sense to make compromises that entail a little aggression to combat greater aggression. The specifics are by nature debatable, though, and risk snowballing into further tyranny and corruption.

>The police is there as the state's institution to carry and enforce its laws. It being inept and corrupt is a failing of that rather than an inevitability. You can't arrive to that false conclusion and use it as the basis for your argument.
That's very close to what I said. >>724919067
>I agree, but this is a practical concern that doesn't directly relate to the NAP/libertarianism. In principal a state could be effective at defending the rights of citizens, in which case your objection to the monopoly becomes baseless.
That's what sparked the whole "theory vs reality" thing. You obviously have different beliefs about reality, which is why talking about that alone isn't as strong as having an incontrovertible theoretical reason.

>>724927376
I remember in school they banned us from having water at lunch. We were only allowed to drink the vitamin enriched, lactose free, 1% milk they had for sale. They had bottled water for the staff, and water fountains and styrofoam cups when those ran out, but we couldn't have any.

It sucked because the milk was almost always sour.

>>724928291
>Good. It's easy to obey law enforcement.
I don't think you understand the point being made. Sure most interactions with police end up peacefully if you act right but sometimes police go full retard.

For example I hate BLM but I saw a video recently of a black guy getting pulled over. He calmly walks out of his car with his hands up and informs the police officers he has a gun on his waist. He does everything right, but a female police officer takes out the gun on his waist BY PUTTING HER FINGER ON THE TRIGGER and ends up shooting the dude in the leg.

This isn't some case of racism it's a case of the police being fucking retarded.

>>724917364
if this pic was more truthful, the redneck man in 2024 would also fully support Putin and suggest we give the money meant for Israel to him

>>724928602
women cops are a plague

>>724928454
Do you just not believe in power vacuums? How does your analogy even make sense, you purport that paramilitary groups form due to friction with a burgeoning state. Do you think they're just a far improbability when there's nothing stopping them, let alone with no measure of authority (hence accountability)?

>>724927824
>Not that anon but the idea is very sound.
Yeah, but like most "sound ideas" its horrible in practice. The food is so revolting that it teaches most kids to hate vegetables and healthy food of any kind. Usually the only food that wasn't actively disgusting were these weird deep fried beef tortilla things called crispitos and the patented lunch room square pizza. All it did was teach kids that healthy food was bad and junk food was good.

>>724928672
there is no power vacuum you retard. Everyone has a fucking gun you idiot learn to read.
Thanks for admitting the cops are just statist power over citizenry,

>>724913989
>The politics in older games were good.
This. So much this. We didn't have the nu-Liberal obnoxious "gaming is political" bullshit. Actual genuine writing without any bias or forced agenda. It was natural, and only served the plot to enhance the story not to educate.

>>724925830
>its different because time moves forward you fucking retard
what has this got to do with the social systems present in the world of invented fictional media? You cant make a videogame set in JFK times because it isnt JFK times anymore so what he said doesnt matter? Or is it that you CAN make vidya set in JFK times but it doesnt matter what he said because its different now?

idk man i think you might be a retard because what you said isnt an actual argument you just said some random shit

>>724928716
>Thanks for admitting the cops are just statist power over citizenry,
What the fuck else would they be, I've never inferred to it as anything different. All the powers vested by any police in a nation-state is constituted by the state.

>>724928716
(NTA)cool, me and my armed buddies are going to start a paramilitary group. Try and stop us, retard

>>724926104
but hes been shown to be an honest to god retard in speech and behaviour every single time so why should it be believed that hes not actually just playing golf. If we go with the supposition and say that hes building connections, even then- why do you think this is valid action when hes such a retard and can barely string a sentence together and isnt saying "huehuehue do as i say or i tariff u"

>>724928454
Until they form a gang, outnumber you, and catch you in an ambush. At that point your only defense is to form your own gang and ambush them first because you can never predict when they'll attack and can't live your whole life in a bunker, oh and look at that you've just made the police.

>>724911095 (OP)
I love the part where Dr. House turns out to be Donald Trump and NCR changed their flag to a trans flag while changing their motto to "Black Lives Matter!" and shoot Caesar Salad son of Hitler in the face

>>724928861
literal retard, the military and counter terrorism will still exist.
Also everyone is armed

Time and time again it becomes readily apparent that the greatest ending for New Vegas is destroying every faction except the Khans and the FoA. Convincing the khans to make medicine instead of drugs and getting the khan poet to join the followers makes it so that when the Khans leave for Wyoming, the Followers go with them. Once you become the new Papa Khan, you lead a mighty and prosperous khanate and leave the desert to fend for itself.

>>724928703
That's a failure in execution rather than the theory. Not only does the parent need not worry about pack food for their child, the school can provide things they may not even have at home. The solution maybe for your case is to have kid's food be listed out and vetted by their parents so they can know what the kid actually prefers.

>>724928931
It's non-aggression. Freedom and non-aggression are logically equivalent. The more non-aggression you have, the more libertarian-y your society is.

>>724928941
So you still have police then.

>>724928931
Libertarianism is when power vacuums do not exist.

>>724928924
no, what hes made is a conclave, and youve had those before- the authorities have access to narrative and media, all they have to do is call him a psycho and he loses his place in the community. This has happened multiple times- "having guns" doesnt entitle him to a fighting chance when the rest of the world immediately looks at his group as the nutjob in need of official policing.

>>724928863
i like how trump sounds more and more like a mafia don
>>724929010
people like you are why iq checks should exist to use the internet.

>>724927972
What is the state's incentive to not turn into a dictatorship when it has the monopoly on violence?
Bear in mind, this is happening in real time in all "democratic" regimes.

>>724928924
An armed local militia is in no way like the police.
Insurance and private security firms are the ancap "police".

>>724928986
If a theory always fails when tested then the theory is false.

>>724928980
Yes Man ending was created because they knew they made cartoon factions that have shit ideals. When you paint both sides as shit, the player isnt going to care

>>724929063
>An armed local militia is in no way like the police.
That's what the original police were. They only became formalized, trained, and organized later.

>>724928941
>>724929063
theres also private security

>>724929063
>What is the state's incentive to not turn into a dictatorship when it has the monopoly on violence?
Quite literally the citizens of which the state draws its taxes from. This is how a modern liberal state is meant to function. From Locke to Bastiat.

>>724929050
its historical. Sicilians allowed the mob begrudgingly because "itd own the northerners" and the same thing is happening now except the Don is actually mentally deficient and runs the entire country. That is to suppose that Escobar or something wasnt an idiot savant themself

>>724929228
How would an unarmed populace incentivize a state to not abuse them?

>>724929070
Okay then, what's your solution then. No school foods?

>>724929279
I never advocated for a completely unarmed citizenry.

I choose the Mick ending

>>724925679
I'd unironically vote for Kanye over somebody like AOC or Newsom.

>>724929228
Uh-huh. When has that ever been the case?

>>724929228
how is the citizenry an issue after theyve been propagandised to believe the dictatorship isnt one? where does the identification of dictatorship occur when everyone begrudgingly agrees to the plans they didnt vote for and oppose? because what they seem to do is argue with other voters and vote differently next time instead of actually take action. Its been three terms of executive actions that were not voted on by the citizenry, at what point are the citizens a power in any circumstance against dictatorial action when they never move against office

>>724928931
Libertarianism is me being free to do what I want and everyone who isn't me being free to go fuck themselves. I NEED to be the most important person ever.

>>724929284
Once they stopped trying to control the diets of the kids to make them "healthy" the food quality improved tenfold. Most of it was introducing food like chips and bottled drinks (including water) from the concession stand, adding a second line where you could get pizza if didn't like what they had that day, and they offered pre packaged meals that were just stuff from the grocery store.

The problem was school meals to enforce health, not school meals themselves. Another problem was federal involvement. Once Michellle Obama's influence was purged and the feds went back to not caring, things got better.

>>724929315
So the sate doesn't have a monopoly on violence.

>>724929448
based

>>724914349
>He's not really a libertarian.
He is a libertarian, he's just a not-retarded one. As in he understands he has to seize all the power he can, otherwise others will seize it for their own ends.

The libertarian's dilemma is coming to terms with the fact that quite a lot of people won't leave you alone, and in fact they'll make it their mission to fuck you over. So the only solution is to grab power first and make sure they can't ruin your day.

>>724929284
>No school foods?
Yes. If the peasants can't figure out how to feed themselves, they should just shut up and die.

>>724929448
Mr House...

>>724929413
im actually praying the US just annexes Australia. This place sucks

>>724929263
Sicilians 'allowed' the mob to form because they filled a power vacuum during a time when Italy was literally reorganizing itself into a modern state which included the annexation of Sicily. This obviously causes it to lose centralized power over many regions, with which various mobs began to being forming due to aristocratic lords trying to liquidate their land and assets before Italy absorbs them into state property to be redistributed. These mobs became the de facto "police" for any conflict resolution during this period.

>>724928863
>but hes been shown to be an honest to god retard in speech and behaviour
There is video of Trump in court decades ago when he was much younger (he wasn't under trial he was just in to speak on his experience in the real estate industry or something). If you watch it he actually comes across as intelligent and well spoken. He speaks VERY differently from what you'd expect out of a modern day Trump speech.

But the thing is that speaking that way will not appeal to modern voters. Trump seems to understand that speaking plainly, using phrases like "BELIEVE ME" and repeating things he wants voters to remember like "CROOKED HILLARY" is the path to political success.

There's a reason that in political debates politicians just spout easy to digest nonsense because even if they're smart if they start giving some complex answer to a question about the intricacies of their economic plans or whatever it won't appeal to voters. Spouting "I'LL BRING FOOD PRICES DOWN BELIEVE ME" does appeal to voters.

>>724929534
this, there is no such thing as live and let live. In the real world.
House is an alpha libertarian.

>>724929558
Most of those peasants would up and die before eating the prison food they serve in schools.

>>724929513
The state with its tanks and drones is shaking in their boots from your AR-15.

>>724929513
Monopoly of violence does not preclude the citizen's right to use justifiable force in the manner of self-defense.

True capitalism has never been tried.

>>724928623
>You're a traitor!
>You're probably Russian!
The meme is about you.

>>724929676
Ok so which is it then? The populace can do something about the state not holding up its end of the social contract or they can't?

>>724914793
>Vault 22 was filled in with cement by House so its residents would be forced to live on the strip
to be fair he did win Vault 22 fair and square.

>>724915973
>Ok, admittedly its been a while since I've played. Maybe I just forgot that. Could you point to the character who said that?
Vault 22 deals with all disputes by gambling, so the dispute was House wanted the Vault and the dwellers didn't want to give it up.

>>724929718
That's because capitalism is a misnomer, it's just the means of being sensitive to the demands of a market by its private citizens. AKA being financially literate.

>>724929676
Citizens should be allowed to own tanks. They used to own warships.

i always see this argument, its really fucking stupid, that arming the citizenry is somehow about you fighting the state to resist oppression.
The point is when another citizen attacks you, you can defend yourself. You are removing this power exclusivity from the state. They don't get to dictate your ability to defend your life/property etc

>>724928264
>Well you also have a very strong anti-police culture in the US that is also fomented by the zeitgeist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZPplp7wGso

>>724929776
So what would House have done if they didn't want to play with him? I don't imagine he would've taken no for an answer.

>>724929676
Retard take especially considering America has gotten into multiple wars with much weaker entities like in Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc. which are considered failures.

The U.S. military isn't going to be using tanks and nukes against their own populace. And something people like you don't seem to realize is that the U.S. military isn't just filled with robots that will do as they're told they are in fact PART of the US population so trying to get them to just go along with killing other Americans isn't going to go as smoothy as you think.

>>724929597
i agree and understand with modus operandi of appealing to simplistic audience, its happened similarly in alot of countries and been called out as such- but i genuinely think this is now an 80 year old man being senile and just the way he talks because its in EVERY address and soundbyte. thats why i said "idiot savant" because he could for all intents be a genuine retard now just accidentally using well worn rhetoric and sophistry.

"300,000 birds have been killed by solar panels, they land on em and burst into flames"

>>724929906
Afghanistan is like this cursed land where empires go to die. It's downright impressive how multiple civilizations have tried, and failed, to bring those knuckle dragging savages into whatever the current version of modernity is...and have to leave changing very little at all.

>>724929826
The country was founded by a bunch of radical libertarians, religious extremists and terrorists. Imagine if the klan, the branch davidians, and the guys from ruby ridge formed an alliance against the state, and you have the founders of the US. They very much did intend that right to be about fighting the state.

>>724929826
The state does control who you are allowed to shoot with your guns though

>>724929983
i don't think it is, even as a universal thing beyond just the US. people have a right to defend their lives

>>724929585
key point was that they allowed this sense of order despite disagreeing with several facets of mob operations. De Santo Pellogrino's orchard owning neighbours disappeared but at least he can walk around at night

>>724911095 (OP)
Politics then: balance between freedom and chaos, anarchy versus tyranny, the validity of the rule of law, taxation, corruption and manipulation behind the scenes.
"Politics" now: oh by the way I'm non-binary.

>>724929906
That's fair except implying that Americans have even 0.01% of the grit that the Afghanis or Vietnamese had. Guns are useless without resolve. We are so soft and pampered that it's depressing to contemplate.

>>724929852
This proves my point as well, anon. But since we're just posting bodycam videos, here's a random one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jZyz3XwRFw

>>724911095 (OP)
They were. But they weren't about "I love niggers and if you don't say I'm a woman, I will kill myself" type of politics.

>>724929973
its pretty easy to still hate a faction and demonise them as savages after losing because theyre just words. It turns out ideals and self ascribed military "power" isnt the de facto way to transform a region. The same has been said of China and Russia and yet.

and yet.

>>724930021
NTA but obviously different countries have different reasons. In the US self-defense is obviously important, but 2a is clearly written with the intent of preserving political freedom:
>A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

>>724930021
decadence is wherein a state has actors saying otherwise because they feel like it- and when those actors are propped up BY the state it starts to not matter whats set in stone. if the acting office comes for you, youre in the wrong automatically.

>>724930021
Of course that too, but the US also extends that right to defense from the government. Or at least that was the idea at the time.

>>724930037
The mob is a paramilitary group that has deeply entrenched itself in the society. You've traded the fucking police to live under the boot of a crime syndicate.

>>724930047
they had home turf advantage, imagine an army of americans with intimate knowledge of where all the mcdonalds and wallmarts are.

>>724930124
No, I mean in a literal sense in that the British, American, Russian, Ottoman, Persian...a lot of empires have attempted to establish some level of control to the region and eventually have to leave with their tails behind their legs because a bunch of mountain men in caves are shockingly hard to displace.

>>724929973
>>724930047
The "War on Terror" is by it's very nature doomed to fail similar to the "War on Drugs". America, if it went full out super tryhard mode with it's military would have an easier time defeating a major power like China or Russia than it would a vague concept like "terrorism".

No matter how much you bomb the shit out of ISIS or Al-Queda it just takes one random dude ready to bomb a Christmas festival to keep the concept of "terrorism" alive. "Terrorism" isn't an organization that can sign over surrender papers. In a similar way you can't ever win the War on Drugs because even if you kill every drug cartel member on Earth there's still going to be people out there getting high off stuff like cough syrup.

>>724929967
i don't think he's senile, i think he's not getting nearly enough sleep. the last speech i saw was him going off script shitting on the UN for like an hour because they turned off his teleprompter or something. how many thoughts could you marshal together on the spot being caught with your pants down? enough for an hour? I sure as fuck couldn't.

>>724929973
It's because Afghanistan doesn't really "exist". It's a loose selection of tribes that cannot agree on anything and undergo generational blood feuds. The US cannot exactly establish a state of Afghanistan because the Afghanis don't even see themselves as Aghanis, they see themselves as their own tribe. The Taliban sought to cut through this by just implementing a religious orthodoxy via an emirate which is what many Afghanis actually do share in commonality.

>>724930047
Who we, you're a thurd.

How could we possibly compete.

>>724930398
why didnt they just nuke the whole mountain

Gov really is wasteful

>>724930398
>no saddam

>>724930465
They had dozens of other WMD stockpiles in other mountain fortresses, ready to take the rest of the planet down with them.

>>724930398
The US military competed militarily very well in fact, like they do every war.. The major failure of the US in Afghanistan was trying to make a state for people that don't really want to or understand what it means to be to live in a democratic liberal society.

>>724930534
US won Vietnam too

>>724930518
I thought it was just all yellow cake? They did posture heavily that they indeed had nuclear arms and refused any inspector hence the panic.

>>724930329
On the day of the 2016 election (maybe the day before) Trump did like 6 different rallies in like 6 different states. All in the same day. The thing is Trump seems to LIKE doing these Trump rallies. Part of why they're so successful is because instead of seeming like a typical politician giving big flowery pretentious speeches, Trump talks to his audience like he's just a friend having a conversation.

Biden was a constant gaffe machine and with him and Hillary it seemed like they were always in a hurry to get their speeches over and done with. Trump speeches can go on for hours and he's like an old grandpa that likes telling stories and is just happy to have people listen to him.

>>724930047
GWOT-era US is the only nation in history to ever fight a war beyond belligerents that spanned the entire fucking globe.

>>724912243
>2000s
>I voted left/right!
>"ok?"
>2025
>I voted left/right!
>"you fucking literal nazi I hope you die a painful death in fact why don't I kill you right fucking now you evil scum? *assaults you*"

>>724930398
looks comfy

>>724930769
As far as the military is concerned it seems like the War on Terror officially ended several years ago. Until fairly recently if you joined the military you automatically got the ribbon declaring that you joined during a time of war, because the "War on Terrorism" was considered a war.

If you join nowadays you don't get the ribbon anymore, which implies the U.S. military doesn't consider us to still be in the "War on Terror".

>>724929880
A siege stalemate where a self-sustaining nuclear shelter isn't allowed to leave while killerbots running on nuclear handwavium and can self-repair and do not eat, drink or sleep wait outside for anyone who thinks about leaving until the vault changes their mind, picks a new overseer who will negotiate terms and conditions of leaving outside because nuclear war has ended already and outside is habitable.

>>724931031
I mean yeah, GWOT-era was 2001-2021

>>724911596
Based

>>724911095 (OP)
op a faggot that's from a hidden hidden sidequest that isn't in the gamu anymore. Rancor a best.

>>724911354
That take is fucking retarded. Every major quest in that game is steeped in politics, and a majority of the quests that are not overtly political are about some kind of philosophical or ethical point of view. The fact that you can just turn your dumbass brain off and ignore the political points of the quests while you do them, or the fact that you can larp as a retard who just does whatever the last guy he talked to asked him to do, does not mean that it is "as political as you want it to be".
By that logic you can go to a political rally and claim it's not political if you just ignore the ideology of what was said, and just agree with what they wanted: to vote for them. That's fucking retarded.
Not to mention the fact that if a bunch of faction offer you their political viewpoints and reasons for why they want something, and you decide to fucking kill him, THAT'S STILL POLITICAL YOU MONGOLOID.

>>724929534
>He's libertarian
>just a not rot-retarded one
Literally you can either be not retarded, or you can be libertarian. It's impossible to be both. There's no such thing as a non-retarded libertarian. The entire ideology is fucking clownshoes my dude.

>>724931118
He probably could've cut the door given enough time. There are thermic lances around the Mojave, and those things can cut through solid feet of steel.

I'm starting to think that maybe the vault dwellers lost on purpose.

>>724911713
Took people ages to figure out that Bioshock was about libertarianism, and to this day some people refuse to believe it.

>>724931481
He could've sieged the vault and reenact the fallout 2 intro eventually, V21 (22 was the one with the plants) had an overseer dispute over staying vs going out then the new overseer gambled against house (who's 300 year old autist wiz hooked up to a bathtub hooked up to a super computer so it's really unlikely you can beat him at any game of chance as per your own customs.

Then after V21 lost house gave them an eviction order and flooded most of it with concrete after sarah weintraub used her jewish tricks to convince him leave vestigial parts of V21 and repurpose them into a hotel she would run.

>>724931440
What ideology isn't clown-shoes. At least it isn't anarchism that wants the government to be abolished or rendered so ineffective that it magically doesn't disrupt anything else.

>>724915973
>NAP
The NAP has always, and will always be a joke. A libertarian will always be happy to create corpses, as long as he can justify it through profit. A libertarian will happily make you work in a fuel factory that fills your lungs with cancer, and then fire you when you go to a doctor, so he doesn't have to pay your medical bills. In the eyes of a libertarian this doesn't violate the NAP, because the worker agreed to it. Doesn't matter that the workers choice was: "Do this, or starve to death on the street", coercion does not exist in a libertarians world, any agreement is a valid agreement. A Libertarian will also happily hire an armada and slaughter & enslave tribespeople to harvest rubber for them. Does that not violate the NAP?
No, the truth is: the NAP, like the entire libertarian ideology is a joke. People on the IQ level of Joe fucking Rogan can go: "Wait, with no state who protects your right to property?" to which the made up, obviously non functioning answer is: "Everyone will just adhere to the NAP". But in their Head the NAP doesn't apply to them. It applies to OTHERS trying to take the libertarians shit. If the libertarian has enough money to own everything, including the people, because he can hire enough troops, then in his eyes he has not violated the NAP. After all, If you don't like him taking over your tribe and enslaving you for rubber harvest: you can just leave your Island and live somewhere else.

>>724926848
I thought facebook was just a dod thing given the greenlight anyways?

>>724931809
Anarchism is literally less clown-shoes than libertarianism. Anarchism is often mischaracterized as "no rules! Party all the time! Epic win!", but anarchism just means "no rulers", anarchists don't believe much in a representative democracy, where you vote for a dude, and then the dude makes all the important decisions for you. They'd much rather have a "direct democracy" where everyone has the right to vote on everything. There will still be rules, law enforcement, all that jazz. Just nobody should have the right to be above another person, without a real good justification. Can it work? Who knows. But it's decidedly less retarded than libertarianism. Which, again as a reminder: is an Ideology that says we do not need to forbid a gigantic corporation from dumping their toxic waste into the river, because if they did, everyone would be mad at them, and that would be bad for buisness, and therefore they wouldn't do it! So there's no need to regulate their toxic waste dumping! They will do the right thing on their own! Trust me bro!.
>What ideology isn't clown-shoes.
It's true that probably every ideology has it's clown-shoes moment, but Libertarianism is just by far the most clown shoes one. Even actual fascim would work better, where every leader is a fucking paranoid shizo, because the whole Ideology is full of backstabbing, betrayals and power grabs, keeping the population afraid and under your heel etc. It's a fucking nightmare world, and STILL less clown-shoes than libertarianism.

>>724919613
Its also to arrest offenders who break the law. Its not necessarily bad to have a force oe people who are supposed to be aware of the laws and how to enforce them/apprehend those who break thim in order that the proper punishment might be applied to said offender so tat the crime will not be committed again.

However as it stands in this day and age, it is merely a tool of the tyrant in that they do not police people above a certain income/connection bracket while the average citizen is allowed to be terrorized due to the alternative being politically inconvenient.

Mind you this i in reference to the police and their defense of the citizenry, you are correct on that notion as they have no legal penalty (and thus no impetus against) for not protecting citizenry from crime.

>>724932403
Most anarchists are fake though, they are just totalitarian communists larping

>>724926227
The military industrial complex did? Remember thats just an arm and not the head of the beast.

>>724932403
Your attributions for anarchism is literally the same for libertarianism but you scoff at it because it accounts for a little bit more pragmatism. Like I said, anarchism wants everything to be magically held together because of course it should. I know anarchism and I still think it's worse than libertarianism, all fucking types of it. Your caricatures for libertarianism is worse than my caricature for anarchism and you couldn't stop yourself from the irony of your comparison.

>>724932469
arresting people for crimes years even decades after the crimes seems to be more of a power trip of the state/cops then actually beneficial.
A lot of criminally minded people are aware they can commit crimes and get away with it for decades.
It's basically the police flexing on the citizenry with tax payer money

>>724922591
Yeah, you're a roman scholar alright.

What would someone gain by having you view the romans (and the greeks) as a passel of faggots, or that faggotry was the peak of masculinity? Shit was viewed with disgust back then and if you looked into it more than what the jew media shoves down your throat you'd understand this was the case. Where do you think hatred of faggotry came from? Historically?

>>724917932
>Being armed is not violence.
Imagine we're neighbours.
Situation A:
I come over to your house. I tell you: "Hey, I really hate petunias, please remove them from your garden. You don't have to do this, but I would like you to do this, because I hate them". I then go home. Are you gonna remove the petunias? Maybe if you're a nice guy and you wanted to remove them anyway? But most likely not, because fuck me, what right do I have to tell you what to put in your garden?.
Situation B:
I put a whole bunch of automated machine gun turrets and cannons on my house, which are all pointing at your house. You can't tell me to not do that, it's my property, I can point my guns anywhere I want on my property. I come over to your house, armed with a couple pistols, and an assault rifle in my hands. I never ever threaten to use any of these on you, or even mention them. I ask you again politely to get rid of your petunias.

Question: Would you feel more inclined to remove your petunias? Probably, right? Because even though I haven't directly threatened you, and I haven't (in your eyes) violated the NAP, the sheer amound of fire power on my house, which would blow you and yours clean away and leave nothing but some smoke, is a clear intimidation towards you, which every normal person would see as an act of aggression, but in libertarian fun world, is just a good citizens right to do whatever he or she pleases on their own god damn property.

>>724932506
They're anti-state, which is the basic building block of a fucking society that encompasses anything larger than a kin-community.

>>724932602
libertarians do not, generally believe in voting or democracy. They believe in owning.

>>724932841
Yes but its been proven many times they are simply statists in disguise.
they hate the current state and want to further its collapse so they can install their state.

>>724932876
Who the fuck told you that? You've been severely misinformed. Does minimal government = no voting? A state still exists within any libertarian framework, though it function varies from watchman (minarchist) to classical liberalism to the degrees of which state power is diminished.

>>724932608
Yeah, smart people or even just lucky people can get away with crimes, thats not the issue I care about as its going to happen simply because you can't expect everyone to want to adhere to the laws and rules established to maintain a functioning society.

The issue of the current police state is that certain groups are allowed to terrorize others simply because of the lack of will of the people to defend themselves against those who would allow them to be brutalized and robbed with little to no consequence.

This is not me not blaming criminals. They are functioning under their own free will and should be taught/punished to make those acts less desireable in their minds. They are certainly at fault for those actions, but the allowance of those actions to be committed without remit is the greater crime and thus those who determine who gets punished and who doesn't have committed the greater crime against their citizenry. It is Anarchic Tyranny.

>>724911095 (OP)
contemporary identity politics isn't even politics, it's just bickering to keep people divided and distracted

>>724911095 (OP)
where's the quest about how you need to build society around mental illness or the mentally ill will kill themselves and others

old "political" games had nuance to them, new "politcial" games are "HERE IS MY OPINION YOU CAN TELL IT'S MINE BECAUSE THE GOOD GUYS AGREE AND THE BAD GUYS ARE UGLY AND STINKY AND DISAGREE"

>>724932876
Anarcho-capitalism is the meme the politically illiterate thinks libertarianism entirely is.

>>724933029
>Does minimal government = no voting?
Yes, because what a lot of libertarians believe in, is a government SO minimal, that it has no right to do anything, but enforce basic laws. In a libertarians dream-world the government is there to throw people in jail when they steal shit from you, and to enforce people to adhere to the contracts they made, when someone tries to bail on their word. The government shall be no more than the people that protect you, if someone decides to break the NAP. Why, in the fuck, would you need voting for that? At all. To run a small government like that, it doesn't have to be democratic. Hell, it being libertarianism, it could literally be a share holder type situation. whichever fucking individuals own most of the land, get the decide the government. You seem to have conflated government and democracy in your post. You *could* have voting in your libertarian world, but it's not a given, nor a requirement, as long as the government does not interfere in your personal rights.

>>724933247
This, same with every political joke in the 90s. They used to be nuanced
God, the world was perfect when I was 10

>>724933504
Wait, do you think the American Libertarian Party wants to fucking abolish democracy and the democratic process? Classical liberalism is also libertarianism as liberals and libertarians share ancestral political DNA directly from John Locke.

>>724933489
Anarcho-capitalism is the most retarded form of libertarinism, but it is also kind of the "ultimate" form of Libertarianism. It's libertarinism applies to *everything*. Basically anyone who is not full on ancap, just has enough brain-cells to realize that libertarianism in it's purest form can not and should not exist, and is therefore willing to make certain concessions. Such as admitting that a fully free market with no bounds at all, can create new forms of coercion, and thus, some regulations and limits are good and necessary. This will then earn that libertarian with 2 braincells, a shitton of boos and rotten tomatoes thrown by the libertarians with zero braincells.
I think it would be fair to say that being ancap means you are a full 100% libertarian, and any other form of libertarian is a lower % of libertarian. "libterian BUT". Because that's what it is: "No one should have the right to coerce another human BUT we need some coercing to keep from falling into chaos" etc. As said before in this thread: the entire ideology is clown-shoes. ancaps have the largest clown shoes, just "minimal government" libertarians still are clown shoes, but they're one size smaller than the ancap clown shoes.

>>724929826
Why the fuck can't it be both?
If anyone ever kicks down my door, I don't give a fuck if they're wearing a badge or gang colors.

>>724929676
>hurrfff durrffff muh tanks and drones, duurrrrrr
>t. every fucking midwit and dimwit gungrabbing Karen retard for the past 50 fucking years
I am not a soldier. If any military force attacks me, they are attacking a civillian and clearly not abiding by the rules of war. I, likewise, am not bound by the rules of war. I will not fight fair. I will meet atrocity with atrocity. They would denounce me and decry my actions in the government-controlled media, but when the alternative is submitting to slavery, their boos mean nothing. It doesn't matter if the scenario is Red Dawn or modern-day Australia/Bongland. I may not succeed, but that doesn't mean I should give up.

The powers that be are people too, and so are their minions. They have homes, they have families, they have lives they live. All of these can be taken from them using only things available to the average person ( with varying difficulty). There is no greater power for altering the course of history and the fate of nations than a single bullet lodged in the right place at the right time.
An assymetrical and decentralized insurgency is nearly impossible to defend against.

>>724911354
So why don't you just ignore it in every other game, genius

>>724933882
>I think it would be fair to say that being ancap means you are a full 100% libertarian
You have to reframe your thinking because you're pigeonholing libertarian into the framing of anarcho-capitalism when it also has other offshoots of libertarianism (ethics-wise like deontological vs consequentialist libertarianism) that it incorporates as well. Minarchism is the most I guess "libertarian" libertarian movement of which libertarians don't really have much of anyways. I say this as a conservative.

>>724914549
But enough about /v/

>>724933808
No, from last I heard the libertarian party itself advocates for direct democracy. What I'm talking about here is the ultimate goal of the libertarian.
You know how many communists believe that socialism is a necessary in-between step between our current system, and full on communism?
I believe something similar is true for the libertarian ideology. Right now, what they want is is a reformed, small government with minimal influence. But the libertarians ultimate wet dream is a world where the owning class decides where the wind blows. Where each rich fuck owns huge swafts of land, and the people in it as debt slaves. where the government has no rights to fuck with them, but is there to enforce their will and their "rights". In this world voting is either not needed any more, or, as your boss owns you, your boss might just have your vote. But again: this is the far off logical conclusion to full on libertarianism, this is not "the next step in the real world right now" just how the next step for commies is not to live in luxury gay space communism right away, ya know?

>>724933930
It's funny because libertarian-right has child sex slaves chained in the basement so that's why they're scared of law enforcement

>>724934284
And I am asking you to reframe your thinking because your applying socialist fatalism to every ideology. You have to refrain from thinking about "ultimate goals" as the main ideology because that's technically how socialists pursue their rhetoric so they can only view other ideologies in a warped logical extreme. As Bastiat put it:
>Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain.

>>724934471
As opposed to the tyrannic-satanist left who "don't" even have a basement but conveniently have their hard drive shot when some lunatic righty shows up at their doorstep to parley.

>>724930084
Yes they were, Republicans were homophobic and racist when you were little, as well

>>724917364
I wonder if redneck guy is still voting for annoying orange, is he is fine with stuff like war in Venezuella or fighting Israel wars

>>724934245
I'm saying I'm aware of the libertarianism off-shoots, but like I said I think it's fair to categorize them as "libertarinism BUT X". Like I said, Ancaps would be the full "Libertarniams but nothing, just libertarianism, ultimate freedom". Like, Consequentialism falls under "Libertarianism, but we don't believe in the NAP as much, and support certain taxes", Deontological libertarians fall under "Libertarianism BUT we believe in keeping a small government to infringe the rights of those who break the NAP". etc.
In my eyes, every off-shoot over libertarnism has picked one or multiple things, that would not work in a full ancap society, and said: "okay we'll do something non-libertarian about that, and except for that, we're libertarians". This comes from libertarinism in itself, being, and I say this with full lack of respect: A dumbass ideology, that only makes sense if you are the rich fuck who owns everything and has nothing to fear.
Your conservatism, makes more sense than libertarianism in EVERY single aspect. and I say that as a non-conservative. Libertarianism is the ultimate form of: "I only want to care about myself" ideology, and it turns out: no society can work if you literally only care about yourself. Because society means together.
Conservatism often believes in "together, as little as possible" or "only with these specific people" but it still believes in "together" to a degree. Libertarinism doesn't, at all. And thus can never work for a group of people.

>>724934556
See my joke is funny because it's simple and straightforward and combined the present context with existing stereotypes. Yours is just butthurt schizo seething about who knows what.

>>724934471
Are you some underageb& tankie? Have you seen these basements you speak of?
Where did the libertarian touch you to make you think about them 24/7 and have them live in your head rent-free?

>>724934910
Damn, I hit a nerve, huh

>>724931494
>libertarianism
On surface level, it's actually about jews

>>724934825
I see what the issue is here. I think you're merging a solipsistic lens unto libertarianism which both relate to individualism, loosely anyways. Libertarianism purports that the paramount purpose of a government is to protect the life, liberty and property and that government encroachment beyond that that intrudes one's life, liberty or property is immoral and in fact in violation of some "contract" entrusted to the state. That is the nucleus of its philosophy. If we're really talking political science here, libertarianism isn't even really left or right, it's just lesser authoritarianism from the state than what liberalism allows to be concessions of liberty. A libertarian technically would be a classical liberal.

>>724911095 (OP)
When we complain about politics these days we mean gay race communism. Nobody minds taking a side on freedom vs authoritarianism, it's specifically the industry's insane stance people are sick of.

>>724935426
>If we're really talking political science here, libertarianism isn't even really left or right
It's quite squarely right because that's just corporate fiefdoms in the end.
>classical liberal
Also right-wing

>>724935550
>freedom vs authoritarianism
>WAIT NO NOT LIKE THAT YOU CAN'T DO THAT

>>724934519
>quoting Bastiat
Cope, really. Because at least in the modern day, the people do rail against the government enforcing these things, because they do want them to not be done at all. They do want to end enforced equality, to get rid of equality.
Look at Musks twitter take over for instance. He said his goal was "free speech for all" and "make comedy legal again". But what was the ultimate goal? He just wanted to be the one who did the censoring. Used to be people got banned for calling others "Niggers" and "faggots", now your post gets muted if you say "cis", because that's against HIS ideology. He bans people posting his planes public flight info and calls it "assassination data", he bans people for revealing the real names of Stonetoss, and other nazis, but he happily keeps libs of tiktok on who doxxes any teacher putting a rainbow flag in a class room, and even re-tweets people posting real life names of people who said mean shit about charlie kirk.
As said earlier in this thread: When a libertarian says: "We don't want government to force our company by regulation, to not dump toxic waste in the river. We would never dump toxic waste in the river, it would be soooo bad for buisness if we did that! so please, remove the toxic waste regulation". Why do you think they want that regulation removed? Because they want to dump their toxic waste in the river.
Whenever someone tells you that a rule needs to be removed, they might TELL you that they are not against the thing, they just don't like the government enforcing the thing, the real truth is that they actually just don't like the rule. Because again: If you liked the result, why be against having it as a rule? You would only be against the rule, if you want to break the rule.
And there's too types of libertarians who tell you that they totally wouldn't dump the toxic waste.
1: the ones who truly believe corporations wouldn't (aka retards)
2: the ones who know they're lying

>>724911095 (OP)
Well older games also didn't coincidentally happen to be abject shit

>>724935343
Nock hated the Jews but he was philosophically anarchist but pragmatically libertarian. All in all you can see alot of libertarians sort of defy the left-right dichotomy.

>>724935426
I was gonna respond to you in one of my patented huge ass posts, but anon here: >>724935558
summed it up quite nicely. Libertarinism is right wing. SPECIALLY any kind of economical libertarianism. Can't have a hierarchy of havers and not havers without a hierarchy, ya know?

>>724917364
this was never true btw, data shows the vast majority of americans supported wars after 9/11, this only changed recently and generally both sides agree other than necons/neolibs (basically the same thing)

>>724935796
What does Libertarian Socialism look like to you?

>>724911095 (OP)
No doubt.

>>724935796
you don't understand what a libertarian is at all. Anarchism is just left wing libertarianism.
From wikipedia:
>A historically left-wing movement, anarchism is usually described as the libertarian wing of the socialist movement (libertarian socialism).

>>724935774
>>724935426
No, many libertarians, just as other right wing ideologues pretend to be either centrest, or even left leaning in order to make their right wing ideas seem less extreme, and more "common sense" than they actually are. You see it all the time
Tim Pool I think is to this day calling himself a left leaning moderate,
Dave Rubin for the longest time pretended to be a progressive,
Jordan Peterson again VEHEMENTLY refuses to accept himself as right wing, or even christian, despite aspousing nothing but right wing christian principles.
Russel Brand larps as anti-establishment centrist
Joe Rogan called himself centrist and "just asking questions"
Elon Musk called himself a moderate
Lex friedman larps as neutral and has almost exclusively anti-left people on his show,
The list goes fucking on. Right of center people LOVE to pretend that they are the center, or even that they are lefties.

>>724935630
Like I said you're basically levying that same critique like that other anon that they're just crypto-authoritarian so the ideology is just some puff cloud fugazi that is subordinate to anything ancap. I can't really argue against that because your position is so knotted into that perception, that you're now citing Elon Musk's Twitter policy as an example.

>>724936138
I don't think I have it in good faith to trust your judgement on what the "center" is if those are your examples of people who aren't at the very least on the window of center.

>>724911095 (OP)
Politics not propaganda

>>724936137
Being "described as" and "being" are two entirely different things, buddy. I mean fuck, full on libertarians are "anarcho-capitalists" and the name is a total misnomer, because it does not come from the actual meaning "Without rulers" it comes from the common public misunderstanding of it: "without rules". Being anarchist, and being libertarian are completely incompatible with each other.
Hell, anarchism in general is probably the most misunderstood political ideology out there, because the majority of people take anarchy as a synonym for chaos and disorder. They just think of it as punks wanting to drink beer and smoke weed while tagging walls and trains.

>>724935951
There was a video a decade ago where a fed on teamspeak or skype was failing to entrap the users asking someone to provide him with "child pizza"
not entirely unbelievable to require a modicum of charisma and speech craft to lie on a yes-no question.

>>724927768
Don't start with the holocaust you glowie, know the turf you're playing in.

>>724936445
>Being anarchist, and being libertarian are completely incompatible with each other.
no they're not. In political philosophy, people that are anti-authority fall under the libertarian label. Whether they're economically right or left leaning is a completely different topic.
btw for most of history anarchists were just called libertarians
> Since the 1890s and beginning in France,[9] libertarianism has often been used as a synonym for anarchism;[10] its use as a synonym is still common outside the United States.[11] Some usages of libertarianism refer to individualistic free-market philosophy only, and free-market anarchism in particular is termed libertarian anarchism.[12]

>>724936572
>>724936445
>While the term libertarian has been largely synonymous with anarchism,[13] its meaning has more recently been diluted by wider adoption from ideologically disparate groups,[14] including both the New Left and libertarian Marxists
libertarian = right leaning capitalist nigga is a modern and mostly american view

>>724935156
>t. the anon that has been ranting about his ancap strawmen for several hours

>>724936281
>I don't think I have it in good faith to trust your judgement on what the "center" is if those are your examples of people who aren't at the very least on the window of center.
Why? The most plausible deniabilty on that list goes to Lex Fridman, because as far as I can tell, he himself managed to largely never say anything overtly political himself, but it is somewhat telling how many anti-left guests he has on his show. Also I think I spelled his name wrong.
But he has hosted: Ben Shapiro, Joe Rogan, Elon Musk, Tucker Carlson, Peter Thiel, Ramaswamy, Douglay Murray, Kanye at the height of his hitler phase, Eric and Bret Weinstein.
Opposed to that he invited a couple moderate liberals, and the furthest left he has ever gotten is Bernie Sanders. He has Andrew Tate on, but not Judith Butler.
As for the rest of the list, who on there would you describe as not right wing? And why? All of these I believe to be right wing culture warriors.

>>724936445
Anarchism is not the most misunderstood, that would be libertarianism as it never really even had any political impetus as many of its tenets were absorbed into liberalism. There are no vogue fashion icons of libertarianism. Anarchism is the most "vibes only" based ideology to fucking exist. Godwin himself argued that institutions shouldn't exist and the very idea of society should just be about the goodness of people and that goodness should be persuasive enough to run society because it's conducive to overall happiness. Anarchists are positionally anti-statists whereas libertarians are cut from the same cloth but at least recognize the necessity of the state as an institution.

>>724934083
>This one poster is the same person as everyone that bitches that bitches about politics.
You're retarded

>>724927768
I always find it funny when conservatives post "this lead to hitler!" content, as if they themselves don't want to be Hitler 2.0.
When some fucko on twitter who posts all day about DEI, and white genocide comes in with: "And did you know the nazis were SOCIALISTS actually? Meaning they were LEFT WING!!!", what's their point? You like what the nazis did, lmao. Your ideal world is one where hitler won, lmao, what are you proving by saying that something *I* have said is similar to a nazi thing?

>>724936878
>Anarchism is not the most misunderstood, that would be libertarianism as it never really even had any political impetus as many of its tenets were absorbed into liberalism.
I mean that's just us getting pedantic now. What's more misunderstood? Anarchism because people believe it means no rules, only chaos, or Libertarianism because most people don't know what it means at all.

>>724936826
Anon is himself doing the thing where he refuses to acknowledge that people who are quite far right, are on the right at all, because he himself won't admit to it either.

Question for the class: Do you think the right wingers that refer to themselves as "Classical Liberal" do so because they actually have politics that are meaningfully different from the mainstream republican party, OR do you think they call themselves "Classical liberal" because politically illiterate people hear "liberal" and think: "Ah, those are the good ones, not the evil republicans" while actual conservatives know: "Ah, that's one of ours"?

>>724936806
I just got here lmao
Seems someone is living rent free in someone's head though

>>724936938
Name one ideology where their ideal world isn't where "Hitler won". I think it's easier to parse that as your position than whatever you typed out.

>>724936998
It's not being pedantic, I mean it in a sociological and cultural sense. Anarchism has a chic tied to it, libertarianism does not. The MOST libertarianism has ever pierced any mainstream cultural zeitgeist was the Gadsen Flags but then right and left wing people also use it so who the fuck even knows.

>>724937173
Dude there's precisely one ideology that thinks Hitler winning would've been ideal and it's Hitler's

>>724937090
if by right winger you mean modern day conservative, yeah they're just a liberal.
There's actually very little difference between the american left and right, they're both post enlightenment era liberals. Most conservatives support homosexual marriage and have guys like dave rubin at the front of their party, meanwhile democrats like hillary just 10 years ago were against gay marriage. Conservatives are just liberals from 10 years ago.
20 years from now republicans will be talking about how "democrats are the real transphobes".

>>724937087
I guess you have a point. Can I really expect an anon who claimed that libertarinism is not a right wing leaning ideology at all, to correctly identify that people like Tim Pool, Elon Musk and Joe Rogan are right wing, even if they refuse to use that label for themselves? Maybe that's just me being too hopeful in anons honesty.
But I was honestly interested in learning who on that list he would have considered not a right winger, and why.
Speaking on the topic: There's also a large list of right wing people, who will NEVER accept someone to be a nazi, or a right winger, or anything of the sort, unless they literally say the words "I'm a nazi".
You see it with J.K. Rowling all the time. Every day that woman is on some anti-trans bullshit, and still if someone calls her transphobic you get a ton of: "Where has she EVER been transphobic???" The woman can post tranny hate all day, and re-tweet other tranny haters, but hey she said once in the past that she doesn't hate the transes, and that she'd even march with them if they WERE oppressed (lmao), so as long as she doesn't outright say "I'm a transphobe" people will claim she's not.

>>724937090
Like I've actually told people much older than me, it wholly depends on the context and the speaker. That or you can just not engage with that sort of thing.

>>724937173
>Name one ideology where their ideal world isn't where "Hitler won". I think it's easier to parse that as your position than whatever you typed out.
Marxism, communism, anarchism, socialism, capitalism, traditional conservatism lmao even stalinism.
As the other anon said there's not many ideologies that wanted hitler to win.

>>724937312
A lot of people like to have an image of themselves that's more flattering than the reality.

>>724937278
I said isn't where "Hitler won".

>>724911095 (OP)
>people still fucking think this dialogue is real

>>724937364
But you purport that conservatives wanted Hitler to win and just want to be Hitler 2.0.

>>724937090
Probably do it because there’s nothing liberal about liberals. Like, a churchgoing conservative who donates to the poor and volunteers is by definition more classically liberal than a liberal who does no form of giving. It’s simply following the definition of the word

>>724937301
>The american left and right.
I'm gonna agree with you under the assumtion that we mean "american democrats vs american republicans", Because I agree that both of those are a form of liberals. The "american left" on the other hand is a groupn of people CONSTANTLY yelling at the democratic party to PLEASE be more left wing.

>>724937312
What the fuck do you actually mean when you mean "Nazi", of course few people would call themselves that but you clearly have another definition for it that captures a wider amount of people.

>>724937459
not him but most conservatives don't want that and are just liberals, so you're correct, but where he's right is that there's a lot of conservatives that are crypto-fascists, and this is a growing trend in recent times where a lot of people see mainstream conservatism has failed to conserve anything, think nick fuentes and his crowd.
>>724937495
>I'm gonna agree with you under the assumtion that we mean "american democrats vs american republicans", Because I agree that both of those are a form of liberals.
yeah that's what I meant. The actual left wing in america basically isn't represented at all in politics.

>>724937534
Nazi is when people want to close the borders that's what it always has been

>>724937381
And I answered correctly

>>724937553
Nick Fuentes is a fucking shitposter. Why is he your example of a fucking conservative.

>>724937459
Modern "conservatives" do

>>724937373
But this: "I'm far right and larping as centrist" shit, that seems to be exclusively a right wing thing, no? Or well, effectively exclusively. Not saying it's not possible for a lefty, but.. well I've never seen a communist who's saying "I'm actually a conservative", I've never seen an anarchist say that he is center right, you know? Of all the left wing political commentators that I know, I know not a single one, who pretends to be less left than he actually is. Yet on the right, pretending to not be as right wing as you are, that's the whole deal.
Look at the daily wire for instance, saying they want to make stuff for kids that isn't political indoctrination, and then they make cartoons that are political indoctrination, but for their politics.

>>724937642
Then this conversation is at an impasse because I am a modern conservative.

>>724937623
Conservatives made "shitposter" their entire identity

>>724934083
Other games don't let me kill everyone I disagree with.

>>724937623
nick fuentes' politics will be the future of the american right, especially right wing men. They aren't traditional conservatives because that's something only boomers are now, and this is how conservatism will evolve with them gone. It will def have fascist tendencies instead of unironically believing gov power shouldn't be used to enforce morality.

I regret posting in this thread. Good Night.

>>724937656
That's because they know, on some level, that conservatism is irrational, unfair, selfish, cruel, even sadistic, and they reject it. They resolve their cognitive dissonance by lying to themselves before they lie to the outside world. People who don't have that cognitive dissonance to resolve have no reason to lie.

>>724929676
Half those tanks and drones would be used against you and your state.

>>724937534
>What the fuck do you actually mean when you mean "Nazi"
I think it's commonly understood that when someone is called "nazi" these days, that this happens because they seem to hold nazi-like belives. Maybe not every single one of them, but some. Be it racial purity, seeing other races as inferior, therefore general hardcore racism, believes that jews are behind everything, that kinda shit.

>>724911095 (OP)
shut the fuck up you tranny nigger indian faggot kill yourself

>>724911354
ah, but that too is politics

>>724922308
This is because you're a sub 60 IQ mongoloid. Kill yourself.

>>724937761
How do you guys have such expert skills of Mind reading and psychological insights but you can’t use that knowledge to appeal to the populace and win some politics? All you can do is type paragraphs on the Internet

>>724937959
you need to stop coping and become a groyper already chud.
Conservatism (alongside israel) is on its way out.

>>724937846
Can't even say we need to establish a racially pure homeland without being called a nazi by the loony left these days smdh

>>724937761
>irrational, unfair, selfish, cruel, even sadistic
I always think back to Jordan Peterson saying that "Equality of outcome is death, equality of opportunity is what you want, unless you want to destroy your society".
And all I can think of is: You had a benzo addiction so hardcore and debilitating, that you needed to go to russia to be put into an artificial coma to kick it. I did not not have a benzo addiction. In fact I was never addicted to any substances. Equality of Opportunity means we both get the same: No treatment for our addiction. This is fair in your world.
Equality of Outcome means those who suffer from addiction get treatment so that the outcome can be: no addictions for anyone. This is DEATH in your view.
I just wish I could ask him how he can still be this way.

>>724937959
It's Cassandra's curse

>>724914549
the final and ultimate truthnuke is that it's all according to the diversion + d&c plan implemented after the actual spark of class consciousness that occupy wall street displayed gave the ultra rich a bit of a spook in their dusty bones.
you see ghosts of it today when more and more people that are "supposed to disagree!!" shrug and realize they both think Israel is shit no matter how much they go "erm antisemitic??" or "but we're better than the heckin muslims!".
they don't care who fondles the figurative Palantir orb or who juggles all the proto real-ID "age verification" data, they're multi billionaires and can ez access it no matter if it's le blue donkey or le red elephant that sits in the white house. as long as it's pushed that way it does not matter if it's for the heckin childerinos or to own the chuds that endless data harvesting and surveillance keeps ramping up.

>>724928752
He said something completely obvious. You sound like a narcissist.

>>724938027
You don't know what the word opportunity means don't you?

>>724936473
Thank god he didn't asked me, i would have provided

>>724929534
Most libertarians are just big government Nazis who are too pussy to just admit it. The rest are naive utopians.

Anarcho communists are also no different than Stalinists when in power.

>>724937959
NTA but: Propaganda strong. A lot of the world sucks. A lot of the world sucks because of conservatives and unregulated, unstopped capitalism. A lot of people realize that a lot of the world sucks, and that their lifes in general suck.
The left offers the truth: Things suck, because we're benefitting a handful of rich people. If we want things to suck less, everyone needs to work hard, and we need to get our shit together. And some of us, have it even harder, because of racism, sexism, homophobia. We, the majority of people, have to work extra hard, to make it fair for everyone.
The right offers a more enticing offer:
"The left says this is all your fault for being racist and sexist. Niggers are taking your jobs, and everything is expensive because immigrants are being given free shit by the government, and the government is making you pay for everyone else while giving nothing to you. You're already brilliant, it's just the immigrants, and the muslims and the left holding you down while saying it's your fault".
The right wing pill is easier to swallow. That's why so many incels exists. It's easier to accept Tates message of: "you're a fucking alpha, and you deserve pussy, but women are bitches and whores and it's their fault if you're not getting any". Comfortable lies are more popular than harsh truths.
I mean fuck, just look at them trying to deny guns being a problem factor AT ALL in gun violence. The second Charlie Kirk got shot, he was implying that gun violence is not a big problem at all because it's "artificially inflated" by gang violence, aka niggers. If you believe in god, how can you not see this as a sign?

>>724938125
What do you mean?

>>724938386
I used to be an unironic libertarian and now I'm a muslim that believes in shariah.
We have a lot of left wing economics like banning usury and forced taxation to help the poor.
not because of tate btw i converted before him

>>724938386
You seem like a good person to ask this to. In the proposed ideal liberal society, who will take on the responsibility of important things like decision-making roles and leadership roles? What will their compensation be and how would you prevent them from becoming a new upper class while also incentivizing them to do their jobs well?

>>724938225
Having any type of discussion with an anarchist is just wild in how confusing it is.

>So how will you manage the people who refuse to contribute or work?
>The answer I get is either "this wouldn't happen"
>Or they'd somehow passively push this person out of the community without somehow using force to achieve this

>>724938724
anarchists don't exist, they're just useless fools the actual smart ones on the left use to gain power.
After they get what they want, the retarded lolbert socialists either fall in line or get put in a ditch.

>>724938471
You're ginger or black, no in-between.

>>724938724
>Or they'd somehow passively push this person out of the community without somehow using force to achieve this
Kek I remember browsing Revleft and all the anarcho retards said the solution to racism is "ostracization".

>>724938545
I'm actually the wrong person to ask this, as I am not a liberal. I'm staunchly left wing. Quite far left, actually.
If you ask me anyway: No Idea. There's a lot to figure out, some of which I'm afraid has to be some amount of trial and error? My personal "ideal" scenario is anarcho-communism. A truly equal form of being, a moneyless, stateless society, free of unjust hierarchies, social or otherwise.
But this being my personal ideal, I do not even know if it is achievable in the modern world. a society like this would work via direct democracy, everyone gets to vote. But how do you deal with democracy in a world with technology? A world where disinformation and propaganda is so easily spread? How do you let the people decide what they want, when somebody can tell the people lies?
I don't think I have the answers for this. But I also know that pretending that the current system is just fine and can not be improved upon, certainly isn't it.

>>724939164
are you trans? I love trans womxn btw

>>724939240
No, straight male, born male. Not every anarcho-communist is a stonetoss character, anon.

>>724939280
ok, I don't like you anymore.

Well anons, it's been fun. Cya all on page 10.

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