Thread 724961317

>can freely control the camera from first or third person (Black forces you to enter first person to look around, effectively eliminating camera control in combat)
>can set camera to normal or inverted for both directions (there is no way to totally remove inverted in Black)
>more vivid color palette (Black is very muted and flat)
>removes pointless padding like having to run back to Muramasa's shop to get the ticket for Han's Bar
>more shops and save spots so you don't have to constantly backtrack or go 20+ minutes between saves
>actually get a fucking aiming reticle for the bow&arrow in first person
>can jump and shoot arrows
>can use consumables without having to manually enter the menu every time (even worse since Black would block you from entering menu during certain animations so you had to quickly mash start before you died)
>the menu in general is much quicker and snappier with key items separated
>can start the game from Hard without having to play through the entire game on Normal first
>Rachel chapters offer some nice gameplay and playstyle variety
>new cool weapons like dual wield swords
>faster load times
>improved enemy AI
Why do people always claim Black is better? Is it just braindead tribalism because Ninja Gaiden Black is the "cult classic"? There are a few questionable changes that Sigma makes, but by and large it is a much improved game.

Bait used to be believable

>>724961317 (OP)
There's two groups of people:
>retards who either barely played it or haven't played it and just regurgitate shit they've read online and conflate Sigma 2 with Sigma 1 and cry about how it has reduced enemy counts (which it doesn't)
>people who have issue with the poor performance, motion controls, and long load times of PS3 Sigma (all of which are fixed in Master Collection)
It speaks volumes that actual hardcore NG players prefer Sigma like 60:40 whereas poser faggots and retards who have barely played the game or just scraped by on normal prefer Black like 90:10

Get the Master Collection and play Sigma there, that's the best version and there is basically nothing you're missing by skipping Black.

>>724961704
Here's a retarded faggot right here. Probably hasn't even beat either game and still needs to chime in with his utterly worthless opinion

>>724961317 (OP)
I just started emulating Black and having to start on Normal is pretty annoying. I'm only up to the bar so far and the differences are neat but nothing too major yet. desu idk if I want to bother beating the game twice to get back to where I left off in Sigma on VH.

>>724962454
On the other hand I have NGII all set up too but the emulator keeps crashing every 2 minutes. And you have to fucking start on Warrior too with Mentor nowhere to be seen, fucking Team Ninja.

So this is the new copy pasta? Bait used to be funny at least. This is just sad now

>>724962057
I beat ngb on master ninja.

Sigma is fucking trash. The Rachel chapters alone are so fucking dogshit I would always pick ngb over sigma

>>724961317 (OP)
Even just being able to move the camera and use consumables in combat makes Sigma better.

Black is unironically clunky and just has some really bad control and camera issues.

One more thing, minor but still, is in Black the map being X to go forward and B to go back instead of just using d-pad, and Black doesn't have a map zoom. Black just has a lot of really stupid shit like that.

People act like Sigma removed the "puzzles" but honestly they should have cut more, as the "puzzles" in Black are near universally time-wasting braindead garbage and Sigma only removed the most egregious examples. The Muramasa ticket is a good example as the sign you read literally says you get a free ticket with every purchase, yet Muramasa doesn't give you the ticket at his shop until after you've read that sign (and it doesn't even require a purchase). It's just nonsensical garbage.

>>724962931
Lmao, no the fuck you didn't lying nigger, fuck off. Rachel has 3 chapters that are like 5-10 minutes long and she has her own fun playstyle and quirks.

>>724962891
Do you even know what copypasta is you utterly braindead zoomer newfag shitstain?

Wait, doesn't vanilla NG let you select between normal and hard? I'm sure you only had to unlock highest difficulty tiers and had 2 modes out of the box (not counting dog mode in black)

>never ask a man his salary
>never ask a woman her age
>never ask a Sigma hater what he specifically dislikes about it compared to Black

Sigma 2 Black mod is also the definitive edition

>>724963575
No, Black only has normal and you have to unlock Ninja Dog by dying in the first stage. NG04 is the same except with no MN.

Sigma has Easy(Hero), Normal, and Hard unlocked to start, then you must beat the game on Hard/VH to unlock VH/MN respectively.

Why did the Xbox trailer remove all references to women?

>>724963985
Different game.

>>724961317 (OP)
>>724963078
you can control the camera in black, the game just doesn't tell you
it's kind of embarassing you feel like you need an excuse to defend sigma just because you played it first or because you don't want to emulate, but it's the better version
>rachel
>good

>>724964376
In Black you can center the camera and look in first person, third person aiming is really wonky and just doesn't work in many instances and third person camera is also forced inverted.

Sigma has full, normal third person camera control, as well as centering and first person aiming/camera as well. You can also make all of these normal or inverted.

I played Black first, still much prefer Sigma, it's just the better game across the board. The Rachel chapters are really the only major complaint I could see someone having for Sigma, and those are 3 short chapters and are a nice change of pace, with Rachel having a fun moveset that plays totally different from Ryu. I just think of all the pointless filler garbage sections in Black and I find it totally bizarre that someone could be okay with those but shit their diaper about the Rachel sections, just seems really autistic and nitpicky.

>>724961317 (OP)
>Why do people always claim Black is better?
mostly ignorance
the only valid reason imo for why someone might argue Black is superior to Sigma is the changes to graphics, atmosphere and overall art-syle
and while I personally like many of the visual changes I understand and even sympathise with those that prefer the original direction
however
the Master Collection PC version has mods to "fix" that:
>https://www.nexusmods.com/ninjagaidenmastercollection/mods/7
there even a mod that allows to play as Ryu in Rachel chapters:
>https://www.nexusmods.com/ninjagaidenmastercollection/mods/476?tab=description
so really there isn't a point anymore to have these pissing matches...
the Master Collection for PC is simply the ultimate version of NG1

The only genuine argument for why Black is better is that it doesn't have the motorcycle enemies. Apart from that, Sigma has everything that makes Black good.

>>724961317 (OP)
I don't care for the Rachel missions and I think the menu looks AWFUL but everything else I like more in sigmer

>>724966153
I hate them so much it's unreal

>>724961317 (OP)
Why do you guys insist on dying on this hill? Why? If it really was better it would be universally accepted as such. Its at least different enough that its worthy of looking at. Why can't you Sigmafags accept this? Now Sigma 2 is total garbage and there is no way in hell you can gaslight fans into accepting that over the Xbox 360 NG2.

What is this 2014? What a blast from the past. Black is better. Cant wait to see another one of these in a few months.

>>724966490
Sigma 2 is far better on MNM though

>>724966153
>Black is better
DON'T GOOGLE THIS

>>724961317 (OP)
>casualization
>casualization
>>more vivid color palette
>casualization
>casualization
>casualization
>casualization
Etc

>>724966806
Post Mission Mode with full Master Ninja clears, poser faggot

>>724961317 (OP)
I'm playing Sigma right now and it's nice to know i'm getting the superior gaming experience. On to Sigma 2 next.

>>724966570
Sigma 2 is a complete slap in the face to the original game. Nothing it does is worthy because its entire reason for even existing was to shit on the og game.

>>724961317 (OP)
i mostly agree, the only thing i don't like in sigma is that the weapon upgrade progression is fucked up
for example:
you can upgrade the dual swords immediately which allows you to cheese the boss of ch3.
you can't start with nunchucks and lunar anymore, this also makes the lunar lvl1 useless since you can upgrade it as soon as you get it.
you can get the dabilahro too soon, which makes the warhammer basically obsolete

>>improved enemy AI
how? the only ones that feel different are the berserkers and that's certanly not an upgrade, now everyone just keep spamming the lunar counter to iframe through the ground attack they spam. I've never seen someone do the stadium challange without doing that or some equally cheesy shit.
>>more vivid color palette (Black is very muted and flat)
that's also not an upgrade, the original colors look better

>>724967806
Is bottom using depth of field? Somehow top has better background textures and more visual clarity.

>>724967806
The color and lighting is so off in the Sigma version. Black is the proper version of Ninja Gaiden period. These people need to let it go already. Itagaki had nothing to do with Sigma.

>>724968238
yes, the models are the same. classic trickery to hide low poly assets is to smear them so you can't even tell what you're looking at. as far as i remember it's only for the cutscenes so it's not a big deal.

>>724968581
Itagaki is a hack that has never made a good game, so that's a good thing

>>724961317 (OP)
Yes and Sigma in general is the harder game. Enemy AI is more aggressive, there are more combat encounters and your maximum health is smaller than it is on Black

Black turns the first Doku fight into a cutscene.

>>724968698
I liked DOA3U

>>724968698
>Sigma is the best Ninja Gaiden its such an awesome game XD
>but also Itagaki is a hack despite the fact that Sigma is another version of his game

Make it make sense faggot.

>>724961317 (OP)
I agree with a lot of this but the Rachel missions are dogshit

>>724961317 (OP)
Sigma menus have no soul.

>>724967806
You only have level 2 katanas before chapter 4, plus Dragon Sword is better for Dynamo anyways

>>724969196
>Dragon Sword is better for Dynamo anyways
https://youtu.be/DwQg8LwxyS4?t=2450

>>724961317 (OP)
>Black forces you to enter first person to look around
If you click the right stick you get normal camera controls.
>Black is very muted and flat
It isn't. It also doesn't have the horrible overuse of bloom that sigma has.
>Rachel chapters offer some nice gameplay and playstyle variety
"No."
>faster load times
What? They both load instantly on modern hardware. If you're referring to the original releases then you are even more wrong as the PS3 version of sigma had awful load times.

The rest of what you posted is fine but sigma also has several small problems of it's own:
>smoke bombs clip through certain floors
>fucked up scoring system for chapters
>different roll animations depending on direction, which all either move slower or don't go as far as the original
>Berserkers were both gutted and made more annoying
>Don't get weapons earlier in higher difficulties, making the first chapter the hardest in the whole game
>Unearthed Challenge 4

There's several things I like about sigma (unlocking difficulties early by beating Doku, some of the challenges, wacky enhancements, etc) but they will always be weird sidegrades. With that said, Black is definitely more polished and deliberate in it's design decisions.

>>724968741
As it should be? You were not intended to fight him there. He was supposed to beat Ryu within seconds. This establishes him as a dangerous and intimidating enemy. Sigma cheapened that whole moment.

>>724964916
>In Black you can center the camera and look in first person
Which is all you would ever want to do anyway. Centering the camera is way more functional in combat because it's quicker and you aren't taking your thumb off the buttons.

How is Sigma 2?

>>724961317 (OP)
Overall I prefer Sigma to Black for just picking up and playing. The Rachel chapters are ass and the bloom is a bit much, but there are mods for both.

>>724970150
Obsolete now that 2 Black exists. It reverts most of the assy changes from Sigma 2. It's not as good as OG2, but the best version you can readily play.

>>724969463
He does the same thing with Dragon Sword windmill slash

>>724969490
No one is jamming in the right stick in the middle of combat to adjust the camera. More stupid, awkward, janky bullshit from Black.

Also you get FS in chapter 1 in Sigma, whereas you need Lv2 Dragon Sword for it in Black.

Berserkers no longer do cheap bullshit from offscreen as often in Sigma (an improvement)

>>724967806
The only improved enemy AI I can think of is berserkers doing the ground flare attack even when off screen

>>724971285
you're not supposed to use the right stick in combat period. You're fucking dumb.

>>724970923
Ok thanks

>>724971469
Yes, the camera is ass in Black during combat, that's one of the major reasons we prefer Sigma. Your only viable camera control in Black is centering

>>724971285
Did you actually play black? Bersekers literally can't attack when offscreen.

>>724971602
Centering is what you're only supposed to be using. That's the best way to control the camera during combat.

>>724961317 (OP)
>Black forces you to enter first person to look around, effectively eliminating camera control in combat)
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>724971836
You don't always want to just center the camera you fucking retard, sometimes you want to pan over. I swear you retards just eat up and damage control any shit all for the sake of your tribalism bullshit. You could have to crab walk everywhere and would proclaim that it's actually better than walking on two legs.

>>724971469
>>724971836
>you're not supposed to do [PERFECTLY VIABLE THING]
lots of geriatric anons out her that need half an hour to move their finger a fucking cm

>>724972021
panning works just fine in black lol
you press R3 once to switch to orbiting mode

>>724972021
>>724972152
i think you're trolling

>>724972236
how did you type that so fast?

>>724972184
It's hold to move, not press to toggle. Play the game nigger

>>724961317 (OP)
>Ryu literally refers to backflipping mechanized ninjas with machine guns and ninja training as an easy foe
>Ryu chops down dinosaur sized fiends one handed
>"Do you have a ticket for the party?"
>Sumimasens his ass out of there

I enjoyed this.

>>724961317 (OP)
>Rachel chapters offer some nice gameplay and playstyle variety
You had legitimate points until you shilled the worst part of the game as good right here.

Beat Black on normal, hated it. Beat Sigma on Hard, loved it, went on to beat Very Hard and Master Ninja.

Black fucking sucks and people only praise it because it's a dead and defunct game stuck on the OG Xbox so they get ebic underground gamer cred for not playing the more readily available version.

The retards who prefer Black can never even tell you why.

>>724972315
you literally press R3 once after save load to enter orbiting mode.
what did you think the flash signified when you press R3?

>>724971285
>No one is jamming in the right stick in the middle of combat
You literally only have to do it once after loading the game, you fucking secondary.

>>724972483
Rachel chapters are way better than helicopters, tanks, flying drones, underwater sections, and gay backtracking """puzzles"""

I genuinely don't get why people hate the Rachel chapters, and it's only like 5% of the game anyways

>>724972697
shitters are used to play the game on normal spamming flying swallow and wall run attacks, you can't do these with rachel.

>>724972472
Well yeah. He's strong, not rude.

>>724972569
Genuinely can you tell me what Sigma changed that made you love it over Sigma? I also prefer Sigma, but fundamentally it's the same game. It's not like NGS2 where they changed so much that they're not really comparable.

>>724972569
Black and Sigma are not so different it makes any sense to hate one and love the other. Why did you even go back to Sigma after hating Black?

>>724971285
When you click right stick that toggles the camera modes. When you first begin the game it's in first person, literally all you have to do is click the stick, it's a button press, and you do it once. The only version of Ninja Gaiden 1 that doesn't have third person camera control is the original 04 version that Ninja Gaiden Black was an update of. Not to mention in all versions you have the camera recenter control.

Seriously what are you talking about?

>>724972854
*love it over Black

>>724972915
Third person camera is forced inverted anyways. Useless.

>>724972697
Rachel's movement feels awful and her moveset is braindead.

>>724972960
That is the absolute biggest non-issue I have ever heard. For me it feels natural.

>>724961317 (OP)
>>724972472
>Ninja Gaiden BLACKED or Ninja Gaiden SIGMA MALE

>>724972986
Most players, even top ones, only use like 5% of Ryu's moveset.

Rachel has a smaller but more intentional moveset, and different mechanics tech, and has less intense encounters to compensate.

Sorry you couldn't spam flying swallow like a retard.

>>724972697
>my taste is universally true for everyone and I can't understand why people lie and claim they don't like the rachel chapters
Yeah thats a real mystery.

>>724973003
and hey, if it's disorienting to you, and for that reason you preffer sigma, fine, won't argue with your prefference, but everything you said about NGB's camera is wrong. It's toggleable, and it DOES have full movement. The inversion of the camera is also no technical limitation, just perhaps not natural for every player (like tank controls or something).

Rachel sections are more about fundamentals and spacing as opposed to spamming. Anyone who hates them is just a poor NG player.

>>724972697
Nice bait.

>>724973449
They should remove ryu altogether and only have rachel be playable.

>>724973563
Would still be better than 90% of CAGs

People are proud of having played the more bullshit version and hate late players having the QoL they lacked

>>724972569
>Beat Black on normal, hated it. Beat Sigma on Hard, loved it,
Imagine having an opinion this retarded when Sigma is basically the same kind of game as Black at its core. This is really awful bait.

>>724973757
Her jiggle physics alone makes that statement true.

>>724974021
>dozens and dozens of changes mentioned in this thread
>hurr durr it's da same game
Retard

>>724974021
Those tedious and annoying platforming sections that sigma removed or toned down from black makes his statement hyperbolic but plausible to me.

I have good autism comprehension and what I get from this thread is that both games are absolutely fine and only minor subjective preferences puts one above the other.

>>724973187
wut, NGB is pretty high up on overall moveset utility. Lunar is without a doubt one of the best designed weapons in vidya.
As for Rachel what makes her boring is that her grabs are safe instakills. So if you're not chaining ETs (sure Ryu has some busted ut chains but at least until ~ch10 they're not reliable), you're looping grabs. I don't want this NG2 shit in my game.

>>724974705
Lunar is trash for 95% of MN

>>724974027
wish her walk cycle was more like nier automata. she moves like she has a stick up her ass

>>724974705
>I'm a retard who has to spam moves to cheese the game therefore bad
Post full Master Ninja rankings shitter

>>724961317 (OP)
It's just braindead tribalism combined with using it to cry about NG2 vs Sigma 2 by proxy. Ironically you didn't even list all the improvements and fixes Sigma has despite how many you went over.

>>724974705
Nah, she has a ton of tech for advanced players
https://youtu.be/HDZB0tzFYTI

Ive only played sigma and the Rachel chapters were so gay I'd say I prefer black even without having played it.
I also hate sigma2 for the same reason. Horrible UI aside, I don't want to play as a less fun woman character for no reason.

>>724974776
>XY wallsplat
>XXXY AOE coverage
>forward X walling
>the mother of all jump attacks
>rare case of good running moves
>best UT when used right

>>724975142
she's not difficult, she just has no other moves worth talking about lol. motherfuckers couldn't even be assed to give her a functional projectile

Black retards are absolutely delusional faggots. Whenever you see someone mentioning Black they are treating the game as it's some kind of god given gift for action games despite the bosses in either version being literally 0/10 garbage, a downright insult. Whenever someone mentions Sigma they are just treating the game like a really decent action game and nothing more, exactly as it is.

>>724974919
Rachel is a very robust woman. Her walk and run animations are kind of bad but I like that she looks unladylike.

>>724972697
All the whining makes significantly more sense when you realize they begin from the position that Black has to be better no matter what. This is why anything that they would normally say is a good thing in any other instance, like the game being harder or more action focused by any means, or the shittiest chapters being fixed or getting new weapons and bosses or cutscenes being turned into gameplay has to be framed as a bad thing. Similarly any slight difference has to be dramatically exaggerated, played up negatively or simply lied about like Rachel's movement being "bad" when she both jumps and dodges further than Ryu and walljumps faster. It's cognitive dissonance 101 employed even more heavily for 2 vs S2. A prime example:
>>724974705
trying to jerk off Lunar which devolves into XXXY to solve anything and thinks Rachel's grabs are both safe and instakills, both of which are wrong due to enemies being able to block them and potentially survive, to say nothing of how useful and important her other strings are since they actually cover gaps and necessary use cases unlike with Lunar.

>>724976752
XXXY is imo one of its weakest aspects. when the Y comes out it fucks, but all the lights can be easily stuffed.

>>724973187
I use all of Ryu's weapons which are fun. Rachel only has one weapon and worse mobility

>>724974174
The core combat and levels are in fact mostly the same moron. Changes like being able to heal quicker is not what I was talking about. The core of the game is still NG1.

>>724977105
Not at all, the sheer number of hits and sweeping reach protects it along with the first X's hitbox being both horizontally wide and low enough to interrupt crouching Bast fiends.

>>724977707
>worse mobility
Retard

>>724978102
>can't run or flip across walls

>>724978001
from my experience imps always find a way to poke thru the third hit.

>>724975762
Rachel is actually fun in Sigma 2 but yeah her Sigma 1 version is lame and forced

Does NGB actually emulate well? I remember I tried playing Orta on Xemu and it ran like shit.

>>724962765
Just play sigma 2 with Black mod
Lighting is not as good as og2 but its actually way more difficult and now has a good gore to

>>724978216
Her dodges, jumps and walljumps all go further faster which is significantly more impactful in combat.

>>724980287
She has way more limited options compared to Ryu and her enemy roster is less diverse

>>724961317 (OP)
smegma fags be like but muh shitty motorbike fights and rachel sections doe

>>724980630
Rachel sections are at least short. Hardly anyone one defends the girl sections in Sigma 2

>>724979321
there is also a mod for Sigma 1 called sigma black lol, pretty good and latest version gives granularity on what you want to keep as in black and what as in sigma, no point to this fucking thread, either get a xbone and black + OG2 or get master collection and read the fucking description for the mods so you can choose your autism.

It's not the same, even with the mods specially for 2, you can do what I'm telling you or you can play whatever retard version you want and then shit and piss forever on NG threads lmao

>>724980531
>way more limited
The only limitation she has is in weapon count and Ryu can't use every weapon at once which makes it a moot point. Her warhammer is comparable to the Dragon Sword in moveset options and she has less chapters making the enemy roster comment outrageously retarded, both of which also countering the weapon choice aspect.

The problem with Rachel is that her tiddies take up the whole camera

>>724982180
>can't use every weapon at once
Which is intentional but that doesn't change the fact that Ryu has far more moves than Rachel does at any given moment.
>and she has less chapters
Which is exactly why her combat isn't up to par with Ryu. You go from a deep character that has a varied number of encounters to one with less than 1/3 of that focus.

>>724979321
Its sad that Ninja Gaiden Black will eventually go into the dustbin of history since they do not have the source code and they have no intention of ever even trying to reverse engineer a modern port of it.

>>724983337
Well, you know what they say about winners writing history.

>>724983306
Incorrect. And her having less chapters as well as being introduced after the core systems have been fleshed out would imply more focused design, not less since more time can be spent on refining them. Similarly if you spent even half the time used making such weak nonsensical arguments instead on learning how to play Rachel when she still abides by the core combat philosophy, you might actually understand how much depth she has and how well implemented and enjoyable she is.

>>724984124
>would imply more focused design,
No it doesn't because not only was she not in the original game (NG04/Black) to begin with, her lack of content prevents any deep exploration of her mechanics. Its a downgrade no matter how you slice it.
>you might actually understand how much depth she has and how well implemented and enjoyable she is.
One weapon, no shurikens, nerfed wall movement, oh yeah tons of enjoyment right there all of which lasts for only a few chapters.

>Rachel has less moves than Ryu (who has like several hundred, more than any action game in existence) therefore it is le shallow
>I am le very smart btw

>>724985720
>strawman argument

>>724985196
Yet again, entirely incorrect not only due to the nature of the content she's in but because of how different difficulties and modes add further variety and access to enemies and bosses. Her not being in the original game means they have the entire game's design to study and take into account when creating her, which is reflected in her more nuanced defensive options and moveset design. This line of conjecture only exposes you. You've went from not knowing how to play Rachel to looking like you don't even play the game at all, all thanks to retarded copypasted talking points that have already been addressed for their nonsense and how they entirely defeat themselves.
>no shurikens
And she has a replacement for it which arguably gives her far more depth and options due to not only being a cancel tool but having multiple unique knockback interactions. You're really fucking bad at this.

>>724961317 (OP)
>It's better than Black
Shit bait, kys

>>724986040
>Sigmachads give numerous examples and arguments of how it's better from their extensive with both games
>Blackedcucks can only spam "BAIT! BAIT! COPYPASTA!!"
Sigma already won btw

>>724985918
>because of how different difficulties and modes add further variety and access to enemies and bosses.
You still don't get it, do you? Ninja Trials aside, her chapters in the main campagin are utterely weak and lacking in content. There is no fucking variety and you know it.
>which is reflected in her more nuanced defensive options and moveset design
Which at best makes her mildly interesting and at worse, makes you wish you were playing as Ryu instead who has tons more options at his display.
>like you don't even play the game at all
Yes yes of course, all those people including veterans of the series who criticised Rachel must never have played the game. How convenient. You are reminding me of a certain avatar faggot who used to browse these threads now that I think about it.
>her far more depth and options due to not only being a cancel tool but having multiple unique knockback interactions
Which Ryu already and makes up for with his numerous other weapons. Your desperation in trying to sell this character is getting sad.

>>724985720
What makes it really funny isn't just that he's pretending he plays the game by constantly going into the menu to swap weapons after each string but that earlier in the thread Lunar of all weapons was being held up as some bastion of genius design when it not only has less moves than the Dragon Sword (like every non-DS weapon except for DC&TF wait uh oh they were also added in Sigma uh oh) but it's also got redundancy in moves too.

>>724986624
>by constantly going into the menu to swap weapons after each string
>another strawman

>>724986479
No one's arguing Rachel is more complex than Ryu, the argument is that Rachel has a sufficiently deep, satisfying, and unique moveset that makes her feel fun, different and a change of pace and skillset from Ryu, especially in the short chapters in which you play her.

You alreay admitted you never actually beat MN yet you claim that her moveset is too shallow and basic to be enjoyable, when clearly you cannot master that as you are nowhere near even the level required to play well on MN.

Honestly, NG is *too* complex with too much frivolous and pointless moves when optimal play mostly hyperfocuses on a short list of key mechanics and combos

>>724986479
>please ignore the things that expose all the bullshit I've been peddling up to this point
Now I'm spoiled for choice between mentioning how despite their short length her chapters pack significant enemy variety into them including a brand new boss which is one of if not the best in the game, or just cutting the bullshit and stating the obvious that if they were any longer you would be whining and crying even more about learning a weapon in a game about learning weapons where you claim to enjoy learning weapons.
>>724986784
It would be a strawman if I wasn't directly addressing your argument, except your argument is that
>you wish you were playing as Ryu instead who has tons more options at his display
>Which Ryu already and makes up for with his numerous other weapons
As a direct response to the options Rachel has to try and say she lacks depth. Which strictly necessitates that for Ryu to have the same/more options he would have to keep changing weapons whenever you want them. Which you already know yourself is fucking stupid and not a comparison at all because you also know that Rachel having one DS-tier weapon is more than enough due to her having less chapters, with other modes and the fiend challenges filling the gaps for those wanting more. Ryu having more options across all his weapons is an answer to his greater chapter length and in no way reduces the depth of Rachel relative to her chapter length. So once again, learn how to actually play her.

>>724987280
>Rachel has a sufficiently deep, satisfying, and unique moveset that makes her feel fun,
Not at all. Her grapples are fine but she simply isn't anywhere near as fun as Ryu. That is the crux of the issue and why so many think her sections are boring. Her only having one weapon (that Ryu also has) and her worse wall attacks is dull no matter what. That is why she became way more fun in Sigma 2 due to her reception.

The problem is execution. Its a fact that most side characters in action games are infamously undercooked, having far less combat options compared to their main counterpart. Just compare Nero to Dante or Viola to Bayonetta for example They are an afterthought in many cases or just quickly cobbled together under the guise of 'it's more content'. Alongside the fact that they often interrupt gameplay with their forced inclusion, or just live with the idea that "this weapon would've been way cooler if the protagonist had it instead" it just bogs them down. Rachel is no different and the fact that you think her inclusion is thoughtful when they only gave her 3 chapters is hilarious.

>You alreay admitted you never actually beat MN
Who? I'm not whatever person you were arguing with about MN or the one who brought up Lunar for that matter.
>with too much frivolous and pointless moves
In NGII, nearly every move is useful.
>on a short list of key mechanics and combos
Maybe if you are a UT spammer. Using only the same few moves over and over is boring.

>>724987881
>please ignore the things
What things? I haven't seen a single strong counter argument.
>her chapters pack significant enemy variety
A blatant lie
>including a brand new boss which is one of if not the best in the game
Gamov still sucks and its not a high bar given the bosses are mediocre in general.
>were any longer you would be whining and crying even more about learning a weapon in a game
A single weapon that doesn't come anywhere near as good as the Ryu's combined arsenal.
>that for Ryu to have the same/more options he would have to keep changing weapons
Constantly changing weapons all the time is fucking stupid, no one does that but its fact that Ryu has far more options by virtue of having access to more weapons on top of other advantages.
>due to her having less chapters
Which is proof that her inclusion is half baked because they couldn't bother giving her enough content to fully make use of her arsenal and allow players to fully explore her moveset.
>So once again, learn how to actually play her.
>hurrdurr git gud
Amazing argument.

>>724961317 (OP)
Sigma has input drops when swapping weapons in the menu

>>724961317 (OP)
Sigma nerfed enemies. Imps barely dodge in that version.

>>724987926
>The problem is execution. Its a fact that most side characters in action games are infamously undercooked, having far less combat options compared to their main counterpart. Just compare Nero to Dante or Viola to Bayonetta for example
This. It took Nero a whole ass new game to be even 1/2 as fun as Dante for example

Rachel sucks cock you have to be a contrarian to think she's as fun as Ryu

>>724987926
I (and many others) like Rachel because it offers some variety and a nice change of pace, and requires you to switch things up from the status quo. If you are an autist who shits your diaper over not being able to play as Ryu for 5% of the game then just play Black or mod it out, but Idk how you can play other action games by the same logic.

> fact that you think her inclusion is thoughtful when they only gave her 3 chapters is hilarious.
That's precisely why it's good. She doesn't have as much complexity as Ryu and it would get stale if it was a significant portion of the game, but in limited amounts it's a fun change of pace.

You, being an autistic retard, think something can only be good if consumed endlessly in massive quantities. It's like saying a a chocolate bar is bad because you wouldn't want to eat a 10lb chocolate bar as your only food for a week. People enjoy variety in their games, and while Rachel doesn't have as much mechanics and complexity as the single deepest action game character in existence, she has well beyond enough to justify 5% of the game to shake things up.

Now post your full Master Ninja rankings or fuck off and kys poser

>nerfed enemies
>dumbed down level design
>better than black
Top kek

>>724989094
That """variety""" is completely unneeded. Literally no one would go
>hmm I wish I was suddenly playing as a completely different character with less of everything
Thank god they learned their lesson and later additional characters are way more fun
>if consumed endlessly in massive quantities
You are acting as if NG1 is a really long game. It isn't, Ryu himself can easily carry an entire game and with inventive weapons, well designed encounters and level desgn, he would never be boring.

>old good new bad
>black is on hueg box
>which is retro
>which means it is old
>which means it is good
>sigma is on ps3
>which is not retro
>thus not old
>thus new
>thus bad

>>724989419
PS3 is retro tho

>>724989337
Even less people think
>I really wish I was doing a gay platforming section
>man this section needs helicopters, tanks, and flying drones
>I'd love to be swimming around underwater like a little faggot right now
>ugh, when can I get back to the braindead backtracking """puzzles"""
Rachel offers a fun change of pace, moveset, and playstyle, similar to Trish or Lady or Virgil in DMC.

NG is only a short game if you know exactly what you're do everything on the first try, and even then it's like 5-6 hours. If it's your first time on a new difficulty, 20+ hours is common.

Still waiting on those MN rankings though, guess you can't produce what doesn't exist though. Maybe don't speak about games you only shitcleared on normal

>>724987926
>comparing Rachel's warhammer to Ryu's when it's an almost entirely different moveset putting aside her own unique mechanics like the vaulting
>saying worse wall attacks as if they're actually worse to be a detriment while not understanding her wall game in combat is better
You really cannot make it any more obvious how horrendously bad faith and/or ignorant you are regarding this and it makes every point made all the more ridiculous.
>in NGII, nearly every move is useful.
>Maybe if you are a UT spammer. Using only the same few moves over and over is boring.
lol lmao
>>724988569
Considering you can't even see the difference between Ryu and Rachel using the warhammer I am not surprised. Anyway lets take her first MN chapter, within just a few minutes you get to fight MSATs (both melee and grenade launcher types), red ninjas and imps within quick succession. That's high variety in such a short span of time. Ryu having more chapters means he will have more enemy types spread across them but that is obviously not a direct comparison to Rachel's fewer chapters and every comparison born of this is a fundamentally warped perception. It's almost like that exact same consideration can be taken into account for his weapons. For her having one weapon with a lot to offer, the chapters she has is plenty, provided you're someone who actually tries to learn and play the game and not make retarded self-defeating disingenuous arguments online.

>>724989337
>hmm I wish I was suddenly playing as a completely different character with less of everything
And this is the guy constantly jerking off Ryu's other weapons despite the reason they exist being literally that exact mentality and them actually having less moves and options unlike Rachel compared to DS Ryu. You can't make this up.

>>724989337
I use Dragon Sword for 95% of the game, but Rachel chapters are nice because they force you to use different weapons instead of just willfully choosing to use an inferior weapon.

Sigma 1 is great and more and more people are finding out.

>>724989827
>You really cannot make it any more obvious how horrendously bad faith
I love how you cherrpicked some random tangent and ignored my main point. Rachel objectively had less weapons, slower movement, rehashed levels and less content. You cannot refute any of this.
>lol lmao
How I feel about your posts
>That's high variety in such a short span of time.
Do Rachelfags have such low standards that they think that is "high variety"?
>For her having one weapon with a lot to offer,
Not even remotely because its only one weapon at the end of day, it can't hope to compare to everything Ryu has
>who actually tries to learn and play the game and not make retarded self-defeating disingenuous arguments online
Not only is there not much to learn, but after you understand her character you will pretty much rush through her chapters as soon as possible, that is how shitty her chapters are.
>>724990049
What is this schizo babble? In NGB, you play as Ryu the entire time. That is consistency and barely has any time wasting content.

>>724961317 (OP)
>can freely control the camera from first or third person
nope, black and ng04 with dlc have 3rd person camera if you click the stick in. only ng04 pre-update lacks 3rd person. all games have recenter.
>can set camera to normal or inverted
true, but you can remap if emulating black
>more vivid color palette (Black is very muted and flat)
they added bloom but removed water in the opening area. they also had to cut some corners where transparencies were replaced with opaque textures. also the blimp doesn't move. guessing they had texture issues in the porting process.
>removes pointless padding
some of the puzzles helped break up the action segments and they're just gone.
>more shops and save spots
not a plus lol
>actually get a fucking aiming reticle for the bow&arrow in first person
not required and some players even texture edit to remove it
>can jump and shoot arrows
100% broken as an option and wasn't thought through
>can use consumables without having to manually enter the menu every time
sigma has the same issues where heals in the quick menu don't always work. its better to hit the menu to pause and guarantee
>the menu
black menu has tabs and is actually quicker to go through because of it
>can start the game from Hard
hard has enemy changes and shouldn't be experienced as a first time player
>Rachel chapters offer some nice gameplay and playstyle variety
rachel is ryu with a worse war hammer moveset
>new cool weapons
sadly dual swords are 100% broken and the game wasn't built for their damage output. doing they 360 spin plus fire wheels melts bosses like a glitch
>faster load times
sigma actually has more loading areas than black. some loading areas in INSIDE of encounter rooms. one in the city even has rocket grunts and the game pauses rockets mid-air while loading lol.
>improved enemy AI
i think the only enemy on record with better ai in sigma is the berserker where they actually do their gimmick attack off-screen now

Sigma 1 defenders are chat gpt bots.

What's next? NG2 Sigma is actually lel good?

>>724990259
>inferior
All of Ryu's weapons are fun and have something to offer. You are defintely short changing yourself by not trying out other tools.

>>724990486
>What's next? NG2 Sigma is actually lel good?
Its overhated yes, you fell for the cultist memes

>>724990586
Og ng2 better

Even ng2 black is better (base game but mods improve it)

>>724990572
Not really, Dragon Sword is all you need for the entire game. Lunar is marginally better in a couple sections, but you know the Dragon Sword more so that gives it an inherent advantage anyways.

>>724990485
Sigma menu is much snappier and quicker than Black
Most puzzles are still in the game, just the most egregious cases of pointless backtracking are removed
Not having any target reticle or overlay to show where your arrows will go is fucking retarded
No, there is not an issue where quick select heals don't work in Sigma
Not everyone playing Sigma is a first time player you fucking retard, it's already tedious enough to have to beat Hard and Very Hard for MN, at least remove one step for people who already played NG04 or NGB
Rachel and Ryu have totally different Warhammer movesets.
No, Dual Swords are not broken you absolute fucking retard, they have a few niche uses in a couple sections

>>724990316
What does it mean to be "skilled" at an action game? I can say upfront and for certain that it's not doing intricate combos.

>>724990914
You fucking retard. Post MN stats before you start speaking nonsense.

Tips for Rachel chapters?

>>724990586
S2 is fine except for how much damage grabs do on MN

>>724991043
Spam UT and bait for counters. Vault into Y/triangle is also good

>>724991024
I have 100% in NGS, which requires MN ranking in every chapter and mission, Idk the scores for each and don't really care.

>>724990586
The enemies can't do anything interesting in small numbers.

>>724991309
More like NG2 is too much of a clusterfuck with how many enemies it has

>>724991340
NG2 was designed with massive enemies spawns. Without that it is unironically not NG2

>>724991402
There was no thought behind Master Ninja in NG2, it's just a massive clusterfuck that was never tested.

>>724961317 (OP)
Are Bast Fiends in Normal Mode

>>724991445
That's why it's kino.

>>724991529
>bend over and spray diarrhea all over the wall
>THAT'S KINO!!!

>>724991573
Gigachad.jpg

>>724979321
I'm playing it on Xemu and it runs great shockingly. Stuttered for like the first minute as it cached shaders bot nothing since, on chapter 6 now

>>724989016
I much prefer DMC5 Nero to Dante, I love just frame moves and Nero has them out the ass

>>724990448
I've already told you several times Rachel has faster, further dodges, jumps and walljumps. You're so desperate to cling onto your absurd position that doesn't actually hold up with any sense that you yourself even say it's stupid as shown by how you say no one is constantly changing weapons on Ryu. And for you to accuse fucking anyone of "cherrpicking" is incredible when the basis of your entire argument is a pathetic strawman mixed with denial. No one is comparing Rachel's one weapon to everything Ryu has, because that is not and never will be the point, this is exactly why I highlighted how retarded it would be to be constantly swapping. Having a different enemy type every fight and fighting 4 types within a few minutes is high variety by the standards of NG1 where you can go an hour and several chapters fighting that much with Ryu. Which is entirely by design due to the number of respective chapters and says nothing about how much depth Rachel has, of which you continue to demonstrate zero understanding of.
>In NGB, you play as Ryu the entire time
I pity your handlers if you're actually this mentally damaged yet the sad thing is I know you're just a deceitful faggot. Hot tip, Ryu using the Dragon Sword and Ryu using the Lunar are extremely different. That's about as consistent as Ryu and Rachel in terms of having a different moveset, except Rachel having much more to her than Lunar obviously.

>>724961317 (OP)
I'm literally playing NGS+ on Vita and it's cursed as hell but it's still NGS, so it's good fun. Fucking hilarious when you power up Ninpo with the touchscreen though

>>724961317 (OP)
>Black forces you to enter first person to look around, effectively eliminating camera control in combat
press R3 you dumb fuck

>>724991043
Learn the different followups from her vault, you can go into UT charge directly from it. XXYY is her main bread and butter string, not XXXXX which is like an Izuna starting from the ground, if it lands normally it works as on-landing state for UTs. Her >X has faster startup so use it or vault if enemies are too close, you can also use the whip to knock them back. XXYY into whip sends enemies back a massive distance. Her >YY is fast, strong, has iframes on the grab and works on dinos.

>>724992970
Any guaranteed damage setups on Gamov? Slippery bastard.

>>724993083
get in the right distance and spam Rachel's guilotine throw equivalent

>>724993148
he's such a POS fight

>>724992698
>Rachel has faster, further dodges, jumps and walljumps.
None of this makes up for her lack of wall running, headstomps, slower mobility overall.
>by how you say no one is constantly changing weapons on Ryu
You strawmanned me on this point to begin with by claiming I pretend weapon swapping mid string when that was never once said.
>when the basis of your entire argument is a pathetic strawman mixed with denial
Impotent seething.
>because that is not and never will be the point,
The point is that Rachel has less of everything compared to than Ryu therefore isn't very fun. This wasn't a point I made up on the fly, its literally the main point of contention for most people.
>Having a different enemy type every fight and fighting 4 types
Not high at all compared to Ryu. You should stop pretending that a few basic enemies + one elite one is high variety when that isn't remotely the case.
>due to the number of respective chapters
Its not only enemy type to consider. Ryu in general has far more variety of levels andnumber of enemies, a natural consequence of Rachel getting barely any chapters.
>Hot tip, Ryu using the Dragon Sword and Ryu using the Lunar are extremely different
Ryu's base movement, controls and feel remain roughly the same, he literally doesn't become a wholly new character with each weapon since weapon moveset is only one facet of his character.
>That's about as consistent as Ryu and Rachel in terms of having a different moveset,
Nope because Ryu has access to far more weapons than Rachel does. They aren't even remotely similar as Rachel is stuck with a single weapon.

Being mindbroken this badly when someone states the very salient fact that a side character shoehorned in after the original release will always be far less varied, slower and ultimately shallower character than the main character. Couldn't be me.

>>724993756
Yes it does. Faster, further dodges, jumps and walljumps = fast mobility in combat. Vault works as her version of Wind Path. This leads to her having similar yet different mobility, provided you actually use her tools.
>you strawmanned me!
Learn what the word means. I already addressed this in a post so this is yet more denial. Oh and projection too, lovely.
>The point is that Rachel has less of everything
And her having less chapters makes up for her having one weapon, particularly when that weapon has options comparable to Ryu's main weapon. This does not mean she is lacking in depth and the game offers enough content to explore her moveset. Then you started screeching about nonsensical comparisons.
>Not high at all compared to Ryu
And this is what a strawman actually is. No one in their right mind would compare 3 chapters to 17 directly unless they were being outrageously dishonest or absurdly brain damaged. More so if they've had it explicitly explained to them several times to the point they themselves admit it would be retarded, i.e. swapping Ryu weapons every string because "muh more options". Oh look at that, the very next line you compare 3 chapters to 17.
>Ryu's base movement, controls and feel remain roughly the same
As do Rachel's. In both cases they're not entirely the same which is entirely the point as both offer new depth and things to learn. This is why Ryu has other weapons.
>melting down and keeping up the retarded strawman out of desperation
Sad, really.

Anyone else think bosses on Hard Mode are easier than on Normal? Well not the UT immune ones anyway, but Murai gets SHREDDED by the SY -> Y OL Y combo if there's an Essence for a swift OL ET

>>724995126
No, you just know the game better

>>724995692
But I mean, maybe but still the game is giving me free ETs when they thought the ads would make the boss hard, it's just crazy. I forgot what bosses have what upgraded ads on MNM so it might well change but I doubt it

>>724995102
>fast mobility in combat.
No wall runs/flying bird, slower attacks oh yeah totally as fast as Ryu. You lying out your ass like this and pretending Rachel isn't a slow character is hilarious.
>Vault works as her version of Wind Path
And is worse overall.
>I already addressed this in a post
You didn't. You were the one who brought up weapon switching first as some sort of gotcha when I never so much as implied anything about weapon switching being possible. This is pure bad faith argument at this point.
>This does not mean she is lacking in depth and the game offers enough content to explore her moveset.
Irrelevant. Lack of chapters means not enough time for exploration of her moves. Only one weapon means less moves/options overall. In all manners Rachel is severely lacking in depth because the game doesn't do enough to support her.
>No one in their right mind would compare 3 chapters to 17
They will if someone is claiming one of those characters have depth. Get it through your thick head already that a character lacking in content and gameplay tools can't be anywhere near as good as the MC. We aren't going to downplay the fact that Rachel having less chapters impacts her quality as a character. You are simply defending poor design choices and hiding behind crappy excuses.
>swapping Ryu weapons every string because "muh more options".
You really love this strawman huh.
>Oh look at that, the very next line you compare 3 chapters to 17.
If you don't like that then stop pretending Rachel has depth
>which is entirely the point as both offer new depth and things to learn.
There is hardly anything to learn with Rachel, a slower, more spammy character that lacks content.
>Sad, really.
Yes its sad that you are having an autistic meltdown.

bump

>Combat Trial 9 in NG4
Good god, is this really possible?

>>724998852
Mork said ng4 sucks and compare its quality to wanted dead so we shouldn't discuss that game here anymore

>>724961317 (OP)
Would you rather be a Sigma male or a BLACKED male...

Ninja gaiden was never good

>>724999163
I'm waiting for that low point. Once he talks about the rest of the games he's going to go mask off saying 1 and 2 are shit actually.

I love ninja gaiden but having 3 versions of the same game is beyond autistic
>og game
>black version
>sigma version
what's next Ninja Gaiden 4 Black followed by Ninja Giaden 4 sigma ? Would rather have them work on a new game, all that wasted time.

>>725000886
No ng4 will get a trimmer's edge version which fixes most of the core changes in the games

>>725000886
NG4 Sharp edge edition.

>>724999003
I'm sigma and blacked

>>724998852
It's possible.
https://youtu.be/drFxpB7Rbr0?si=fAJvBRB59idfmbaW

>>724998978
>Mork
/ourguy/ is JayTB. Mork gets made fun of for not clearing MNM and using other people's footage.

>>724999374
Boghog hates Shinobi PS2, so Mork's gonna trash that. I can't see him liking NGB even though he said he'll be reviewing NGB. Even in his review of the Master Collection, he didn't have much to say about NGS/NGB other than "ohhhh uhhh buy black if you like the expanded original release but i like sigma." He really doesn't have much to say about 1. If someone hate the platforming in 1, there's no way he'll be cool with all the exploration, platforming and puzzles in NGB.

>>724961317 (OP)
>die to the final boss in Sigma
>have to do the whole climb every time
>die in Black
>get teleported when you pick up the blade

>>724961317 (OP)
All the 3D games are shit compared to the NES trilogy.

>>725001295
Literally the easiest boss in the game tho

I've only played the games on Steam
If time only allows for one, between Ninja Gaiden Black and Ninja Gaiden II, which one should I give a try? I heard for NG1, Black and Sigma aren't that different but it's the complete opposite for NG2.

>>725002220
Don't bother with NGB. NG2 original has many advantages over NGS2

>>725002276
Alright thanks I'll go with NGII first, maybe I'll get around to NGB some other time.

>>724961317 (OP)
I know this is bait because Black does have the exact same camera system as Sigma you were just too retarded to click the right stick to make it work, but other than that I agree with the following

>removes pointless padding like having to run back to Muramasa's shop to get the ticket for Han's Bar
It makes no sense that Ryu would listen to some random bouncer and walk all the way to Muramasa to get a ticket when he could either find another way in or just flat out kill the guy since he clearly doesn't view Vigoorians as people.

>actually get a fucking aiming reticle for the bow&arrow in first person
I think the bow is better off with the reticle considering how annoying and one dimensional using it is.

>the menu in general is much quicker and snappier with key items separated
This, I get Black is an old game but I hate the weird delays after equipping and using stuff in the menus.

Everything else you said is either subjective, or objectively retarded.

>>724972986
she feels fine once you learn to move with on land jumps

>>725001161
>he didn't have much
Will that be the game that finally exposes him?

What's a sigma?

>>725004179
it's the total sum of all parts

>>725004179
it's the other guy you play as in ng4