Thread 725269334

Behold, the worst videogame attack ever made

That's because it's literally a reused asset from Sekiro. It was meant to be used by Tomoe in the cancelled Sekiro DLC.

>>725269334 (OP)
>just glitch her targeting by rolling into her
>scripted
>just use fast rolls and don't touch shields, parrying, poise builds,
what were they thinking?
There doesn't seem to be a correct way to dodge it.
I looked up how to deal with it at one point and the most common technique to dodge it still makes you eat one hit most of the time.

>>725269334 (OP)
just back away from her bro it's that easy

>>725269334 (OP)
I block it with my fingerprint sheild
>NOOOOO BUT SHE HEALS
so? just hit her more. She doesn't have a lot of hp to start with.

>>725269334 (OP)
she's so cool and beautiful I wish I had a malenia gf

I believe that Malenia is possibly the hardest boss in Souls history, but for a terrible reason, that is this attack in specific.

I'm talking from the perspective of someone who played all of the games fully blind, without looking for any info whatsoever before beating the games, and also as someone who likes to play with 1 handed sword and shield paired with a humble low damage build to better enhance the experience of the first playthrough.

All of the bosses of the series in general follows the same rules, they have high poises so their attacks cannot be cancelled, and the general strategy is to wait for their attacks, dodge or block, and chip away at them in the opportunity windows. This concept works great versus all bosses, not on Malenia tho, because of this Water Fuckery.

Without looking at any help and trying to understand it yourself, it's very hard to discover the only cheesy way to dodge it, and you can't block it outside of very specific builds to do that, that ends up being a big inventive for the players to try some cheesy builds or strategies to beat her, and that's what i ended up doing.

I just said fuck it and used dual wielding great swords to try and luck a run where everything went right and i stomped her before she could even rip this attack out. Was not fun at all. Every other boss i bested in the usual way, even PCR.

>>725269334 (OP)
COPE

The move has clear counterplay to this and it pisses me off when I put my sign down to help players and they just die to this straight away. You faggots call her unfair despite all her blatant weaknesses but will suck cock for Radahn and his bullshit light beam phase.
Malenia was a GOOD hidden dlc boss and nothing can change my mind.

>>725269334 (OP)
>Host of fingers has died, returning to your world

>>725272185
Ignore the dlc part about her, was too triggered about the other faggot

elden shit

>>725269396
source?

>>725271613
>She doesn't have a lot of hp to start with.
She has the fourth highest HP in the game without taking her healing into account. One of the things above her is a dragon that can't even move and another one is a boss you fight with a gimmick weapon that does massive damage so his large health bar isn't an accurate representation of how long he takes to kill.

Considering she's like one of few bosses that can just be staggered and actually take elemental/bleed damage, I think it's only fair she has one busted attack for players to work around on otherwise she'd be a like lady maria and just a boss you can bully easily
>but muh that's cheese
Only cheesy thing to do is summon. Everything else is fair game

>>725272185
>The move has clear counterplay

No, it doesn't. It's really not intuitive to see the only possible way to actually dodge it. Blocking it is clearly not the intention too. The most visible counterplay is to start running to the other side of the screen when you see her jumping and even that doesn't work very well.

Yes, if you look on the internet how to dodge it then it becomes easy, but this is a failed design.

>>725271613
You just need to block the first part anyways, the other two are piss easy to dodge.

>>725272432
This is unsatisfactory and a failed design. Curb stomping the boss as fast as possible while abusing staggers is not how a Souls boss battle should be enjoyed.

>>725272476
The intent is to make you panic and take damage so it's successful design
It's not hard to survive the attack, dodging every single hit is another matter

RL1 characters can block it with a basic heater shield. No buffs, ash of war or talismans needed.

>>725272476
>Blocking it is clearly not the intention too
Lmao, just lmao.

>>725272431
"Bodied that freak"

>>725272476
>It's really not intuitive to see the only possible way to actually dodge it
>Play roll slop 4 games in a row
>there's no way I could possibly think the best way is to roll slop
My sides

>>725272584
People liked Malenia in general though.
So who are you to say they failed with her?

>>>107141005
>>>107141168

>>725272791
"People" like her because she's the hard boss and, one eay or another, they got to the other side of the fight and have bragging rights.
Doesn't matter if they cheesed the hell out of it.

>summon Black Knife Tiche
>step back and watch her obliterate Midlenia

It's that simple

>>725272853
This. But also "people" "like" her. They "like" her so much that the most known meme about the boss is summoning another player to solo her for you.

>>725272791
>the boss known for people summoning help to beat her
>people like her
why do niggers like you always try to push some stupid shit like this?

>>725272991
>>725272941
Cope.
Fromsoft succeeded with her and then made the dlc more busted and people enjoyed that even more. Yet you will come here and say "they failed" kek

>>725269334 (OP)
I've beaten her with and without a shield and it's not that bad.

>>725269334 (OP)
I still think the heal on hit is the dumbest thing they gave her, yes it's meaningless if your damage output is higher but it just irks me off that they added it, it's the thing about her that most shamelessly screams "yeah we made her bullshit on purpose."

>it's a cut content from sekiro because my favorite youtuber said so
>blocking is not an intentional defensive method because my favorite youtuber said so
>staggering the fuck out of the boss is considered cheese because my favorite youtuber said so
>healing on hit is not a fair design because my favorite youtuber said so (shields literally trivialize her nonetheless)
3 years and we still get filtered

>>725271982
You are just weak. I played blind too, my only previous Souls game was Sekiro, and I spread my stats evenly to try a bit of everything and didn't use anything cheesy. I simply beat her by bringing a really sturdy shield and figuring out a combination of dodging and blocking parts of the attack that worked for me. The fight took a long time for each try because she heals off the blocks, but it never felt unfair.

>>725273558
>healing on hit
This was the most pointless criticism. By the time you reach her most people are doing serious damage so it minimises the effect of this.

We are going to have these threads til the end of time arent we. Ive seen these same responses a million times by now. Even the shitflinging is the same.

>>725273830
>the worst part of the boss
>actually pointless criticism
you fags are delusional

>>725269334 (OP)
A single frost pot will cancel it in both phases of the fight

>>725273096
>people enjoyed that even more
I sure as hell didn't.
Nice environments, good gear additions and cool presentation, but it suffered from the same problems as the latter half of Elden Ring.
I put it down after Romina.

>>725273830
No, actually.
A boss negating all kg the damage you just did with one combo is not fun.
A boss negating the last two minutes of damage you did with one move that 95% of players have no idea how to deal with is not fun.
Yeah, they can look up ways to dodge it, but that's awful design. Not a single Souls boss has ever been as bullshit, not even the optional superbosses.
Midir, Ludwig and Orphan were nowhere near as retarded as Malenia.

Start with a basic shield block for the first hit, then roll backward and follow it up with a roll to the right.

>>725273096
I find evert boss from the DLC very cool althoughbeit. The only single hard Elden Ring boss that i consider a failure is Malenia.

I'm not one of those people who didn't liked the amp in difficulty in the bosses of the series, i just think that Malenia is a badly designed Souls boss.

>>725274349
>A boss negating all kg the damage you just did with one combo is not fun
didn't happen unless you use +0 weapon
>A boss negating the last two minutes of damage you did with one move that 95% of players have no idea how to deal with is not fun
this is true if you decide to facetank all of that move yeah
even panic rolling would help you negate 2/3 of the damage

>>725273558
If you look information on YouTube everything becomes pointless and piss easy. I'm expressing my own opinions here.

>>725269334 (OP)
>use barricade shield
>sit there and poke her with bleed great epeenis
get good

>>725269334 (OP)
Unironically true. The "intended" way to get out of it feels like a glitch or exploit.

>>725274672
who said anything about looking on youtube? The tools are all provided for you in the game. It's not From's fault that you decided not to use them

>dude hardest souls boss ever
>remove one attack and she wouldn't even be middling difficulty
Has anyone ever actually died to an attack from her that wasn't waterfowl dance

>>725275005
her clone attack fucked me over with the second last thrust once or twice
sometimes i died because i tried to stance break her but she activated a superarmor move that makes her stance invincible

>>725275005
The attack in the second phase where she summons phantoms has killed me a few times

>>725269334 (OP)
I want to replay Elden Slop again, should I be turtle poking chad or a sorcerer slut that shows feet?

>>725275005
>dude hardest souls boss ever
lol

>>725274005
are you poking the boss with a longsword and no meaningful sources of damage increases

>>725275134
Have you ever done either of those? And how about guard counters?

>>725269334 (OP)
>RKR+Giant Crusher+Mimic
>Bonked her dead in 2 tries.
>Can't really appreciate malenia memes.

does anyone have the image of the brazilian in a bike as radahn

>>725272584
>EVERY BOSS NEEDS TO BE FOUGHT THE SAME WAY. DONT MAKE ME CHANGE TACTICS

>>725275176
I've done both builds, also guard counters would be part of poking

>>725275005
>low poise and easily staggered (major flaw for a Souls boss that very few have)
>squishy as fuck to pair it with (she has high HP but not for the point that you face her)
>every single attack aside from this one os pathetically easy to dodge
>she basically kills herself when entering P2 and coming down with half HP in a an attack with a giant opening

Despite this, she is considered as the hardest Souls boss ever. All because of this one stupid move. People will then look you in the face and tell you that it was easy to see a way to deal with it without looking on the internet

>>725275005
No, waterfowl is literally the only reason she's Top 3.

>>725272264
I made it up but it makes sense when you think about it. The only other explanation is that they wanted an optional boss that references Sekiro. Kind of like how Demon of Hatred feels a bit like a Bloodborne boss.

>>725275005
>>725275419
i mean she literally is
pre dlc at least
who else there to dethrone her? Souls bosses are never really that hard. It's just that the players love to restrict themselves

>>725269334 (OP)
Play more vidya.

It's honestly hilarious how easy Malenia would be if not for Waterfowl dance

>>725269334 (OP)
>acquire her great rune
>can now trade blows with any boss because on- hit lifesteal broken
She wasn't meant to be beaten. She's an optional gimmick boss because on-hit lifesteal is broken in a souls game. It's literally a Bloodborne mechanic.

I decided to be a sorcerer slut that shows feet

>>725275680
Orphan of kos is the hardest until you find out you can just backstab him to death

Sister frito has 3 forms = takes longer = harder?

The promised consort was the hardest until they nerfed his ass to the ground making him bitch tier

The problem with saying malenia is the hardest is that she can be cheesed by bleed, stun, and poking, which are the 3 most popular builds to run in Elden Shart

>>725276336
never played bb so i have no idea
Friede becomes way too manageable once you beat elden ring imo. I went back to ds3 right after my elden ring playthrough and i just 1st tried her

>>725275560
>both games overlapped in terms of development, hence why Sekiro parrying had to be added in the DLC as tear
>no dataminer has found any correlation between the two or even that a Tomoe fight was ever intended
>all the disciples and masters in Sekiro share moves, Genichiro has almost fuckall in common with Malaria

>>725276914
>Genichiro has almost fuckall in common with Malaria
waterfowl dance is spiral floating passage on crack

>>725275005
I died a few times to her normal moveset as I was experimenting with openings to try out-dpsing her healing. She's very punishing with a colossal because your slow as dirt swing speed removes a lot of your normal openings and her lifesteal makes trading less favorable

>>725275176
IMO guard countering is never very satisfying. One of two things happens:
>1) The enemy has no answer to being blocked and guard countered. It's an even more braindead I WIN button than spear turtling in dark souls
>2) The enemy is programmed to randomly trigger follow-up attacks after swinging, so whether you get hit in the middle of your guard counter is RNG
Neither feels very good desu

I literally figured out how to 100% dodge it the first week of the game on my sl1 run. You run away from first, you roll into second, and you just WALK just walk into the last one and it misses you. Don’t lock on the last one just walk toward her and away.

The funny thing about Malenia is that you remove this one dogshit move, she's among the weakest bosses in the game. Her entire difficulty hinges on a single move that requires you to break her ai or cancel her out of it to stop it reliably.

>>725269334 (OP)
Even I can dodge the entire waterfowl if I'm not directly under her when it starts, there are genuinely worse attacks in the game not in terms of damage but in terms of how fucking jank they are to avoid even if you know how you're supposed to do it.

On the other hand I don't like how "binary" the Malenia fight is. Her moveset outside of waterfowl and phantom clones is whatever, and pretty much all the difficulty comes from whether or not she decides to cancel into her super moves when you're in close melee range or stuck in a casting animation. It's not fun, and I would even argue it's not good design regardless of how people feel about it.

>>725277653
No it’s the hp regen that even works on shields.

>>725277754
The rest of her moveset is pathetically easy to dodge, you will never trigger that HP regen. Hell you will barely see her attacking at all because she kneels from two L2 buttons.

>>725275005
Damn, all these pro gamers itt meanwhile i spent 4 days trying to beat her

>>725277653
>break her ai
Her AI is already broken. Just try shooting a slow projectile at her. lol

>>725276336
She looks like she summons STR/FTH men.

>>725277837
/v/ likes to pretend that WFD is easy now that they've had 3 years of practice, forgetting that all of the strats they looked up on youtube took dozens of hours of grinding the boss with visible hitbox cheats to develop, and that people didn't know about the frost pot cancelling until almost 8 months after launch kek. Classic epeen waving.

>>725269334 (OP)
>runs away
>blocks the the burst after her dash
>rolls away

>b-but she heals
stupid faggot retard idiot

>>725271356
no its not

>>725278006
>strats they looked up on youtube took dozens of hours of grinding the boss with visible hitbox cheats to develop
Do Soulsdrones really? I just beat her the same way I beat everything else in Soulslop: by circlestrafing and/or i-framing through attacks. It's not rocket science, just half decent reaction time.

Then again, I'm a MonHun player, so perhaps my standard of "difficult" is skewed.

>>725272476
Shitter. I learned how to dodge it enough that I wouldn't die from it. Hell every now and then I could actually dodge it completely. And that was even if I was close enough to be hit by the first wave.

>>725269334 (OP)
*Throws pot*

>>725269334 (OP)
This attack and the clone attack in Phase 2 are egregiously bad, yes. The boss is still very challenging without either, but both of these attack raise her to the level of bullshit. The most egregious part of it all is that she can start chaining them back to back in Phase 2. I still SL1 killed her but fuck this cunt.

>>725272705
>boss recovers 20% health from your blocking
lol, lmao even

Saw these not long ago. Love how people just take some ridiculous shit and say nah, that's not enough, we need to go even higher.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAIRE8w2Jqw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbHz4Ex9sCs

>>725272213
TORRENT NOOOOOOOO!!!

>>725269334 (OP)
>roll back
>roll back
>roll forward
wow so challenging

>>725269334 (OP)
>FROMSoft makes a hard boss with bullshit mechanics
>FROMfags kick and cry and seethe
>SHMUP has ridiculously hard boss
>Just another day in hell
the FROM fanbase needs to toughen the fuck up

Bloodhound step trivialises this.
>b-but that's cheese
Don't care

>>725272213
It looks like she beheaded her boyfriend and sowed a goat's head to his neck stump, and is now confused why we're upset.

>>725275560
>I made it up but it makes sense when you think about it.
I'm tired of the unified fake knowledge lead by the internet. Everyone has the same opinion over the same games. Even normalfag friends are starting to use terms like artificial difficulty.

>>725269857
>There doesn't seem to be a correct way to dodge it.
It's easy to dodge, 100% and no circle-around tricks needed, if you keep some distance away from her.
After she uses Waterfowl, she has a 'cooldown' where she will not use it again for ~30 seconds UNLESS she uses her grab lunge, which removes the Waterfowl cooldown.
So you play keepaway to bait Waterfowl, wail on her for 30 seconds, rinse and repeat.
Source: I kill her solo at RL1 using melee reliably, and also none of the above applies is gayfag multiplayer. Lots of strat in Elden Ring doesn't apply in multiplayer, so it's impossible to edit a Wiki with the info because some got-carried dumbfuck will think 'NUH UH NOT TRUE' and edit good advice out within 24 hours.

.

>>725282345
That's an incredibly boring way to fight her but I guess it makes sense for RL1

>>725269857
theres an ash of war called vow of the indomitable that you can slap on ANY shield
you can offhand the lightest shield you have and just switch to it when you see her float in the air
it has enough iframes to avoid the first slash and then you can easily just roll out of the other two
you can also just block the first slash and roll the other two but this will have her regen a bit of hp
another thing you can do is bring frost pots and throw them at her when she floats, her frost res is shit and 1 pot is enough to frostproc her out of it but do keep in mind that her res will go up the more you do it so it might start taking two pots after a couple of times (this is on ng she has more res on + cycles)
another thing you can do is throw shit at her when you feel like shes gonna do it
her ai is kinda whack on her phase1
she will do it at likr 70% and 30% so you can run away and throw shit at her to trigger it while shes far away and it completely misses you

you can also just like, raw dodge it but personally i could never be 10/10 consistent at it
but it IS and option

>>725269334 (OP)
Lmao scrub ass

>>725269334 (OP)
I forgot how long the wind ups in this game are. She still hasn't attacked

>>725282348
never ask a cheeser how he went against malenia's second phase

>>725283256
does her second phase get more poise and that doesnt work anymore?
why would it be different

>>725282348
Thats some good cheese
>that double panic roll at the end
lmao

>>725282345
>it's easy to dodge if you spend the entire fight playing around it

>>725282348
YOU ARE LIKE LITTLE BABY, WATCH THIS

https://youtu.be/Ex9ekh-jtgs?si=JMceuczNJjbh9Ar1&t=2347

>>725274084
No it wont. She has more frost resist in phase 2

>>725284438
It is quite funny how every single one of these "tanking" videos uses the great stars with the dlc armor now.

I beat her with a spiked caestus arcane build. You can stagger her out of any of her moves with status effects that cause stagger like bleed or frost, and with poise breaks.
My Ash of War was quickstep which allows you, if locked on and close, to just slip behind her every time she does a series of attacks during the dance.

Cold Greatsword +25 jumping R2s, Mimic Tear (the only man that I can trust), run like absolute holy hell when you even slightly suspect she's going to use Waterfowl, change to spamming Comet to finish her off when Mimic Tear inevitably dies in phase 2. Ez work

>>725269334 (OP)
You got filtered, there are at least 12 counters to it. The super boss having a move that requires more than just the standard i-framing is good game design.

>>725269396
The animations are notably different, the technique was just inspired by that one from Sekiro.

>>725275005
I used a mod for a while that disabled waterfowl dance and she became easy enough to beat on my first try with a number of different builds.

Very quickly proved the difficulty of that boss is RNG based on whether or not she uses an attack that requires hours of testing unintuitive solutions or having the knowledge gained from that testing being imparted to you by another, which in some cases requires changing up your build. No other boss is like this, she ignores the rules every other boss/enemy in the game follows which makes it an unintuitive experience for the players.

So they succeeded in making her as difficult as she is supposed to be lore-wise, but in the most bullshit niggardly way possible.

>>725285983
>but in the most bullshit niggardly way possible.
Appropriate I think for a boss that, lore-wise, raged and threw her headset off and punched her wall and rot-bloomed when Radahn beat her on equal footing

>>725272185
The same people bitching about Waterfowl Dance bitched about DLC Radahn and wanted his moves nerfed. The cross-slash combo just required dodging to the left with good timing, the Blood Flame slash was a smokescreen just like Mohg does it, and they removed a slamming hitbox from the Rock Sling attack. The same people bitched afterward too, shitters are just posers.

>>725269334 (OP)
What a shit bossfight, beat this game and never did a playthrough again

>>725286145
I think there probably could have been ways do it that didn't require what is essentially an RNG instakill attack for 99% of players. I was satisfied with the difficulty of the DLC bosses which in some cases took me 2 to 3 hours of attempts, this includes DLC launch consort Radahn. Malenia was days, the the first time I actually beat her solo without any of the cheese strats I now know was because I got favorable RNG and she just didnt use waterfowl once during either phase of the fight. It honestly felt like a hollow victory but also that I had been scammed out of so much time due to a single attack that had no intuitive counter with the build I was using at that time.

>>725285983
>Remove the entire attack that signifies she's stepping it up into high gear
>Wonder why it's so much easier now
Anon, learn how to defeat Malenia for real.

>>725269334 (OP)
It's literally so easy to avoid this lol. Malenia is a very easy boss. Consort Radahn on the other hand is an absolute piece of shit with way too much in his kit in his 2nd phase.

>>725269334 (OP)
She's surprisingly easy, just exceptionally annoying if you simply block her attacks. Yes, it makes the fight take forever, but everything about Elden Ring is terrible so whatever

>>725282345
>After she uses Waterfowl, she has a 'cooldown' where she will not use it again for ~30 seconds UNLESS she uses her grab lunge, which removes the Waterfowl cooldown.
and youre supposed to know that how
also there are other triggers for the waterfowl reset

>>725285680
For me its, pump vigor, heaviest armor possible, physical damage negation, HP regen on hit, cold greatstars with wild strikes. Just hold down LT and swing away until shes dead. If the boss disrespects me I'll disrespect her back.

I did >>725287278 that mod doesnt even work anymore.

this>>725287467
its why malenia is so hard that when most people see shes healing on block your initial reaction is to not block her attacks which ends up leading to people thinking the fight is "unfair" when in reality its just obnoxious as fuck

>>725287467
If it takes forever your weapons are probably bad
also its not like you need to block every single attack

>>725284438
DS3 babies fear this

>>725287467
>She's surprisingly easy, just exceptionally annoying if you simply block her attacks.
IF you can block her attacks. If your shield or weapon doesnt have enough guard boost you can't do that. And if it doesnt have 100 physical damage negation that attack is an RNG flask tax.
>just change your build
No other boss in the game demands this of the player. She is an exceptionally shit boss.

>>725283612
nta but basically yes
>she starts stopping way less
>she starts doing superarmor attacks considerably more
I deleted first phase with crucible horns into destined death, but that didnt work as well second phase

>>725272431
Giant dragons don't have the poise of overcooked spaghetti, you can bully malenia easily with large weapons. She would be a joke if she didn't have that much HP + waterfowl.

>>725287792
A boss healing via lifesteal when you block 100% of the damage they are doing to you is both unfair and obnoxious as fuck.

>>725287889
>No other boss
Yes they do. Rennala has 80% magic resistance, Mohg and Rykard have 80% fire resistance, Morgott can be too fast for people, Godfrey deals amazing poise damage, etc. DLC Radahn mega whups people's asses, and the Dancing Lions, Rellana, and Messmer have bodied people too, causing them to respec. Some methods aren't as good against bosses as others, hence why changing up builds can help, but nothing outright requires changing a build to win.

>>725269396
just stop

>>725288295
>Dancing Lions
My pain points for that boss were the dumbass spinning breath attack that has almost no wind-up and hits an insane area, and that when targeting somebody for a storm breath attack it will sometimes just target somebody else with an attack regardless of who it's facing (though this isn't unique behavior to it, especially in DLC, see Promised Consort Radahn will send afterimages after somebody he's not facing)

>>725269334 (OP)
bro just turn and run like just hold down b bro

>>725277987
AGREED

>>725288295
One of the things I like to do in these games is pick a build and stick to it and I can tell you flat out that I have never felt the need to change my build for any boss except malenia. No matter how much of a disadvantage you are at by choosing not to, no other boss has felt insurmountable as malenia did without hauling in a greatshield to deal with her bullshit.

I am aware of the unintuitive dodge routines you can do avoid waterfowl but the fact that those strats are widespread knowledge thanks to youtube doesnt change the fact that having to resort to those things also breaks the rules established by every other boss in the game.

She breaks multiple rules in regards to the game design that is consistent for the player in every other moment to moment instance of the game.

She is a shit boss, designed to be shit on purpose and that doesnt excuse how shit she is.

I like overtuned bosses that make you overthink your build. Pre-nerf Radahns were great because of this, I had to try weird builds to win.

>>725289342
Nah, Pre-nerf Radahn was retarded and I say this as someone who beat him fair without changing builds.
He had a completely undodgeable attack and his light rays were just put in there because the team at FROM have given up on interesting ways to make the game harder and were just trying to fucking blind you.

>>725289342
>I had to try weird builds to win.
>shield
>poke
They even give you a lesser fingerprint shield right before his fight so you get the hint.

>>725289568
Yeah it's actually insane how little the Radahn light beams add to the fight, they blind you but you don't really dodge the attacks differently, the optimal way is still to roll towards him, at worst it punishes people who roll away, to which point I ask, if there's only 1 way to approach something, doesn't it end up being easier?

THE INTENDED WAY TO PLAY ELDEN RING IS WITH ASH SUMMONS.
MALENIA IS HARD WHEN YOU TRY TO SOLO HER WHICH IS NOT THE INTENDED WAY TO PLAY.

ER just made me dislike the current direction of soulslikes and action games in general. This kind of simple control style and movement needs simple enemies to match it. Sure you can keep the punishing damage but the back and forth between the player and the completely overturned bosses is broken. Playing Demon's after this was huge breath of fresh, it is much more fun as a game even if it's very easy. DMC3 and NG2 mog ER as action games.

>>725269334 (OP)
Idk about the "worst" but it was incredibly unintuitive. IIRC It's run away from the first slash, roll away from her for the second slash, roll towards her for the last slash? After dozens of attempts I watched a video on it for the first time ever in a souls game. sad!

>>725271356
you can't out run it.

>>725271613
You only fought her post nerf. She used to get full healing through shield which meant if you blocked it she healed to full.

>>725287889
Every build type can easily access a 100 phys block shield, and guard boost is only required if you plan on primarily blocking. If you're doing magic/incantations then you can buff your shields and have access to barricade shield, if you're dex you have access to barricade shield, if you're strength then you're strength.

>>725290097
>you can't out run it.
Technically you can outrun the first and the second, but she leaps through the whole fucking arena for the last one.
The issue with malenia, as others have mentioned, is that if only a single attack is what makes her hard, then the attack is retarded, the beta version of the attack was nice and felt more like a dance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhzKkJdn9Rw

>>725289035
How does using actual footwork for zoning, free running, using a status effect stagger, etc. "break the rules established by every other boss in the game"? Why do you think literally everything other than dodge rolling is unintuitive? What build do you have where one move somehow forces something no other move in the game does?

>>725290097
The only thing of Malenia's that was nerfed was her grab attack. Something about it, like her speed or distance covered, was reduced by 10%. That's it.

>>725290394
The third flurry is a flee-catch -- if you don't dodge away from her, she'll overshoot. You can even stand still or duck if there's not a wall right behind you. The beta version of the attack didn't look like it was plausibly fast enough to make the air slashes, and if she tried it at pointblank range she'd stick to you for six flurries.

>>725269334 (OP)
Only hard if you are a "dodge and R1 only" Andy. The correct way to play Elden Ring is to abuse every magic spell and overpowered weapon art in the game. It's fucking boring, but it beats being annoyed when you die because dodged 10 attacks in a row only to get killed by the 11th. Just run away and press Blasphemous Blade L2 and stunlock the boss to death, the way Miyazaki intended.

>>725271982
>I just said fuck it and used dual wielding great swords to try and luck a run where everything went right and i stomped her before she could even rip this attack out
Pretty much. This used to be a series where going slow and cautious was always rewarded and being a reckless retard was always punished. Now it's the opposite, and normalfags somehow think this is an improvement.

>>725269334 (OP)
Please explain how Waterfowl Dance is worse than Savage Ruler's (Dariusburst) laser spam or Eigong's (Nine Sols) teleporting anime slash combos in phase 3. Go on. Waterfowl Dance has a very clear telegraph and can be reliably dodged as long as your roll timing is tight enough; it isn't unreactable or uncounterable.

>rev up l2
>follow it with a heavy
>watch her eat shit to instant cold proc
Felt like an ornery old man smacking down an uppity brat

>>725290946
You've mistaken caution for being exclusive to a slow approach. You need to adjust for the pace of what's slow and what's the fight the boss wants.

>>725269334 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT-MPKzXQ48

>>725291217
a mimir

>>725269334 (OP)
Wrong.

I literally killed her week 1 before any buffs/nerfs/whatever by just hitting her and tanking all damage with the big piece of shit rock slab shield.
>b..but she heals
I made her unheal faster

>watching other people take her on
>she does the water fowl dance 4-5 times
>when I try to take her on
>she does it once per phase max, sometimes not at all
I feel like she likes me.

>>725282348
they fixed her, you can't stun lock her anymore and the 1hp glitch doesn't work anymore

>>725291512
Don't forget to grease your greatsword before using Impaling Thrust, fuckboy.

>>725290591
She was changed a few ways. the two big ones I remember were she was made easier to stagger and that she didn't get full lifesteal through shields any more.
The reason you don't know is because you didn't play before/after and the filthy japs make patch notes like this
>App Ver. 1.02
>Regulation Ver. 1.02.1

>Major items included in the latest update:
> Balance adjustments

>>725282345
Years later and tryhards will still post about how it’s “easy to dodge” then post two fucking paragraphs about the meta intricacies of when and when you can’t dodge it. Anon there is no excuse for putting an attack in the game that forces you to acquire such autistic stockpiles of meta knowledge to not eat.

>>725290467
>"Unintuitive" means something is not easy to understand or learn, especially without specific training, or goes against what one would expect.
Its in the definition of the word you autistic nigger. Run, jump, dodge, block, parry, these are the the usual tools that you need to deal with any attack in this game and you often only need one when you learn the timing. With Malenia you need a combination of them in a specific routine as well unlocking of the camera (unintuitive behavior not required any other time in the game) or again in the case of blocking, a specific item that fits a certain criteria which still results in you paying an obnoxious tax multiple times during the fight. Abusing status effect stagger is also never needed anywhere else in the game in regards to being a deciding factor in whether you can beat a boss or not and no matter what sort of lie you come up with to disagree with that, it will never be true.

>>725289568
I beat Radahn with a guard counter build using messmer soldier spear and blacksteel shield. It was effortless and my GCs were doing like 3000 damage each time, but I didn't have fun doing it and didn't feel satisfied after it was done. I wish I could have just stuck with my great katana build like a chad

>>725291646
>Patch 1.03
>・Other enemy and weapon balance changes
Dirty fucking japs.

>>725291175
I've beaten the game multiple times, I wasn't asking for advice. The entire game is easy when you throw caution to the wind and spam jumping L2s or overpowered weapon arts. There is literally no boss that doesn't get destroyed by the most braindead strategy. It's designed for retards and normalfags and that's why it vastly outsold Dark Souls.

>>725291642
Are you going to cry

>>725290375
But what if I'm not using a 100 physical block shield or a high guard boost shield? What if I'm not using a sheild at all? Picking up a shield like that is changing my build, something that no other boss in the game requires me to do.

>>725292430
Using equipment your stats allow you to use is not changing your build you fucking retard.

>>725292518
NTA, it absolutely is, and you’re splitting hairs because your point is retarded. No other boss, including the DLC ones that are supposed to be stronger than she is, forces the player to modify their tools to succeed.

>>725292430
>>725292730
she does not REQUIRE you to change your equipment, changing your equipment makes the fight easier, this is a solution to a problem of her being too hard for you but it isn't a solution to you being a stubborn retard.

>>725292518
Yes it is you fucking retard.
>This character is going to use a Square off Longsword and Round Shield
>The most basic sword and board build possible because that will be fun
>Oops Round Shield doesn't meet the waterfowl requirements
>better pull out the bass shield + baracade shield for this one fight specifically
She's shit, always will be shit, and will always be remembered as shit. Cope, seethe and dilate you troon.

>>725292820
Short of abusing meme solutions or turtling, describe to me the “correct” way to dodge waterfowl. The baseline way that everyone has access to regardless of stats or equipment.

>>725285887
>Don't hesitate just because he has a gun and you don't
>Not "Don't hesitate because hesitation is defeat"
ngmi

>>725293097
everyone has access to frost pots, everyone has access to shields with shield barricade, everyone has access to the sprint and roll button.
There is no "meme" solutions, there is only solutions you don't like for some arbitrary reason.
I personally do the run away from the first part, shield barricade, block the hard tracking dash, and roll from the last bit.

>>725293097
nta but you can just run

>>725293589
I’ll define meme solutions for you, cuz you’re lost in the sauce or arguing disingenuously: solutions YOU didn’t come up with. You didn’t realize frost pots cancel her out of the attack. You didn’t think to circle strafe and give her fucking vertigo so she misses the first volley. The internet told you about those. They’re fun, and it’s awesome that people figured them out, but they’re unintentional and unintuitive, and very obviously NOT intended design.

If you didn't beat Malenia on your first try ur a baddie.

>>725293997
So what you're telling me is that they're meme solutions based on an arbitrary reason?
Fascinating stuff, anon.

>>725293991
Often not. If you play like you have been all game and run in to punish an attack she can negate the poise system and start the animation while you’re still in recovery for your own. When that’s happens, and it can be frequent, it’s not possible to outrun or outdodge the first volley without niche tools you may not have. The only truly safe “solution” that doesn’t require meta knowledge is to play the entire fight in petrified anticipation of waterfowl.

Just run away, then dodge in, then dodge away. It's easy once you know how.

>>725294282
dude ive beaten her by just running (no summons, no magic, no consumables, just swords)
you can anticipate when it comes, you can dodge the final attack when shes close to you too
its bullshit, but its doable

>>725291646
Her poise has stayed the same and her healing on shields wasn't changed. Those vague adjustments just included a change to her grab.

>>725294234
No, they’re meme solutions because it’s unreasonable to ask someone who’s not checking the fucking fextralife to intuit them AS solutions. You’re awful smug for someone who’s winning strat was spoonfed to you by a guide.

>>725294486
I know, I’ve done it before too. It seems we agree. It’s is doable, but it’s bullshit. And it forces an annoying passive caution that feels sluggish and unfun compared to the other fights.

>>725294502
>HOW was i supposed to figure out to go sideways?
listen to yourself.

>>725291861
Running, jumping, dodging, blocking, and parrying are done routinely throughout the game and in conjunction, so it's all naturally intuitive. Malenia doesn't require using every single one of these at once to dodge Waterfowl Dance, they just can each help among the various ways to avoid Waterfowl Dance. Unlocking the camera can regularly be done against fast (or large) enemies, and the status effect stagger doesn't have to be abused, just used at all. You're also bitching about the literal optional super boss like they were mandatory and in the mid-game.

>>725291976
If you do that recklessly you'll get hit out of the air and bodied on constant trades. You're seething that the gameplay isn't exactly like Dark Souls anymore while not improving your own ability to spot openings.

>>725284321
Yes, you have to plan around the mechanics of a fight

>only attack in the entire series that's non-trivial to rollslop away from
>seething for years
lol

>>725294495
You're retarded. Those "vague adjustments" were hundreds of changes to various enemies/weapons/movesets/bosses. I'm telling you about the 2 that I happen to know for a fact.

>>725294604
Skill issue.
I enjoyed working around it. I know fromsoft babbies aren't used to playing hard games but this is pathetic

>>725269334 (OP)
>mfw had a harder time with the twin gargoyles

>spam rolls throughout the entire series
>Apparently you needed a guide to tell you this in Elden ring

>>725295031
The "vague adjustments" in question are those relevant to her, anon. People went digging and then whined that only her grab was changed.

>>725295014
>game offers only two ways of avoiding damage (roll"slop" i-frames and shield)
>both methods are incredibly unintuitive for this attack
>"loool you're seething haha"
retard

>>725295206
>fromsoft babies
You got like 90 hours into ER to fight her anon who do you think you’re impressing.

>>725269334 (OP)
No, it's the best

Some of you retards haven't seen this video and it shows
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9Vbsr3Ko7M
Watch it and learn how the mechanics work objectively, she literally can do things only a handful of other bosses get (and a few things only she gets to do)

>>725290053
>This kind of simple control style and movement needs simple enemies to match it
It's the opposite, the enemies should be more complicated in how they react to the player. Right now all enemies behave the same and true combat interactions are pretty much just hitstun, shield bounce and being lit on fire. Animation reads like backstepping and flask punish are meta actions and as such I don't count them. An enemy having 500 different attacks or long combos is still simple because all it does is relentlessly attack the player. Coming up with an enemy that is susceptible to something like hitstun but functions in a way that deters the player from simply stunlocking it to death requires some actual thought. Or having synergy between enemies and the environments they are placed in, Fromsoft put a bunch of imps behind corners and called it a day. It's lazy, the formula hasn't been solved yet.

Ur supposed to unlock and run a close circle around her for the first part. Second part I've seen positioning work but you can roll it and 3rd part is easy at this point.

>>725295335
I'm not asking for your secondary guesses. I'm telling you factual information. Begone retard.

>>725269334 (OP)
Every time I look at this and I always instinctively prepare to RMB spam as if I were playing Sekiro (but I'm not)

>>725294440
the problem is that its very unclear as to how to actually do that because of how poor the visuals are. the only way to figure it out without using a guide is trial and error. the visual feedback on where you are supposed to dodge is nonexistent.

Great Murder Hobo Sim, terrible rpg.

>Breaks formula [Boss - Mini Boss - Elite - Common] constantly

>Worst Caryl Runes (No unique qualifiers, expanded movesets, unique abilities, or covenant changes)
>Worst NPC questlines progression in the series (3/4th are simping) complete waste of GrrMs talents of fantasy politics
>Worst gameplay to world impact. If the story is to “fix” everything & become king, why can’t we make ANY real overworld choices?

>Limgrave: The 3 lord contenders
>Weeping Peninsula: Humans vs Misbegotten
>Liurnia: Academy, vs Cuckoo Knights, vs Carian Royalists
>Calied: Burn, Retake, or spread the Rot outbreak
>MT. Gelmir: Volcano Manor dissidents vs Frenzy/Madness remnants
>Atlus Plateau: Perfumers vs Jars race war
>Leyndall Capital: Feral vs loyal Omen

>Cant create your own Roundtable, recruiting NPCs, or remaining loyal to Gideon
>Cant use prosthetics, body grafting, blood magic, necromancy, faith summon weapons, stands, traps or machinist tech
>Cant use any of it despite their constant reuse of assets

>No Age of Compassion
>No Age of Blasphemy
>No Age of Slumber
>No Age of Knowing
>No Age of Blood
>No Age of Rot
>No Age of Godslayers
>No Age of Crucible
>No Age of Dragons
>No Age of Conquest
>No Age of Beasts

>Never fixed the RoGs into feeling like an expedition up an MOUNTAIN (2x exterminated civilizations: Zamor humanoids, & Giants are right there.)
>Never fixed Consecrated Snowfields. (Shove all of RoG content here)
>Never added the Badlands even though it was finished.
>Never added the “above” map layer for dreams
>Never added in the cut questlines, NPCs or endings that were finished. (Or unique cutscenes to existing quests/endings)

>Shafted: Black Flames, Sleep, & Beast-hood content

>Ruined their final boss, being a worse G&M copy
>Ruined their DLC by being half assed
>Ruined their final DLC boss by being nonsense in their own butchered lore
>Ruined the kino check by not giving us a EL Triggers for their respective ending

>>725298027
ah shut up mennnn

>>725291064
that walking stick is op

>be full kick build with bleed items and infusion
Just spammed L2 20 times and she died lol

the sad thing is that Malenia is so disgustingly over-wanked as LE HARDEST BOSS EVAR by these shitters that I can't even remember who the most previously over-wanked "hardest boss" was before her

>>725269334 (OP)
This attack was pure anime faggotry and felt completely out of place in the game. If they wanted to include an unintuitive attack like that and make the fight revolve around it, they should have had her open with waterfowl to give players a chance to practice dodging. By this point in the game I was ready for the game to end so I just beat her twice, both me and my mimic.

some random furry is able to do it why can't you https://youtu.be/ixk0KiTr01s?si=nwXxBaoTMqwqu3om?t=1m13s

>>725305157
>golden parry
ydbtg

>>725290946
>the correct way to play the game is not to play it
Man it must be miserable being as retarded and pathetic as you.

>>725297005
I'm saying the facts too. You need a better claim than just "it's hidden in unspecified adjustments" against an actual example. Malenia never got something like a Radahn nerf.

>>725275560
>I made it up but it makes sense when you think about it.
I chuckled

It's the second worst. Gaius's charge is worse.

I didn't play Elden RING and fuck Elden Ring. Okay? LoL fuck you.

>>725269334 (OP)
>no intention of fighting melania bc i'm a fucking casual
>accidentally catch the flaming piss disease
>gf breaks up with me
>install cheat engine
>rape the rotussy ggez
>clean my stds by injecting drugs with a dragon
>marry the blue blow up doll instead
blimey

>>725269334 (OP)
This was nothing compared to that garbage double horizontal slash Radhan Miquella's cocksleave had in the DLC. That was genuinely the worst thing they had ever done. Not only was the boss fight garbage, but he could just do a literal unavoidable slashing move at anytime you were close to him. At least waterfowl had a cooldown and you could usually avoid it by managing distance.

>>725275005
>>remove one attack and she wouldn't even be middling difficulty

that isnt even her worst attack, all of her worst attacks are in the second phase, specially her clone attack, and fucking everything causes rot in her second phase

>>725282345
>its easy to dodge if I just crack open the exact game mechanics and internal timers used for the AI and plan entirely around this one attack

>>725272584
>. Curb stomping the boss as fast as possible while abusing staggers is not how a Souls boss battle should be enjoyed.
Your gay ass circle strafing or whatever should be discouraged.
Play the game like a man.

>>725275005
I died to her Scarlet Aeonia more than I died to Waterfowl, actually.
It took me a weirdly long time to get the timing down on that move. I always dodged too early or late and got nuked.
Her clone move is also nasty, and her lunge covers the entire arena fast if you try and run away for a heal.

>>725276336
>The promised consort was the hardest until they nerfed his ass to the ground making him bitch tier
Why do people exaggerate this?

>>725275005
>>725275005
>>725285983
>>725275958
Malenia's moveset is relatively simple because she has Waterfowl Dance.
If she had a moveset like Friede or Rellana, and Waterfowl, she'd be absolutely miserable to fight.
The balance is that she has a fairly tough but very manageable moveset, and two super attacks (waterfowl and clones) that are brutal to avoid that shake up the entire pace of the fight.
Fromsoft could have obviously made her normal moveset assrape city, in addition to Waterfowl, but instead the point was to build the fight around her panic inducing moves she busts out when you think you have control.

>>725269334 (OP)
She was the best bost in the game, one of the few good ones in the game, and you're a scrub

>>725283612
She stops flinching in phase 2.
Same poise, but you can't just wail on her anymore.

>>725295954
Why would a boss ever be consistent with other game mechanics?
They're not a peer that you're dueling with, they're a challenge made specifically to shit on you.

>Mimic Tear
>Doublestaff
>Unequip all spells but Ancient Death Rancor
>Spamlock her to death

Just do this, it's real easy.
>BUT THAT'S NOT FAIR
I can't heal on hit, she can't spam rancor. That's fair.

>>725269857
If you're not doing enough damage to overcome the healing she does from you blocking every single attack she throws at you then your build is dogshit

>>725307776
let me guess, you refuse to use bloodhound step or light roll
you also refuse to use deflect tear and raptor of the mists
medium roll only right?

>>725290946
>This used to be a series
It's the only game in the series, retard.
>This used to be a series where going slow and cautious was always rewarded and being a reckless retard was always punished. Now it's the opposite, and normalfags somehow think this is an improvement.
It is, retard. I know you've never been off your couch, much less in any kind of fight, but spending extending periods of time dodging and blocking to get one poke in is so antithetical to winning any fight that Miyaslopi's dogshit AI and enemy design requiring it is a break of immersion for anyone who isn't a complete retard. This tedious, playtime padding horseshit has only gotten more flagrant as Miyaslopi has been allowed to pollute video games with his dogshit.

Malenia is a rare exception, because you can actually make her flinch, while most boss have eternal hyper armor as you flinch into 5 seconds of uselessness every time you stub your toe.

>>725273406
>think the heal on hit is the dumbest thing they gave her

I think it was a good thing, because it forces the player to master movement patterns.

>>725269334 (OP)
>sephiroth for zoomers

Waterfowl dance is so fucking stupid, you can even stunlock Malenia with it.

>>725282348
>using ashes of war
You didn't beat the game

>>725271613
This whore healing herself by hitting a shield is the most retarded fucking thing From has done to date and they done plenty of retarded shit (ie the entirety of DS3).

>>725286145
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T USE YOUR STRONGEST ATTACK TO INSTA-PWN ME THAT'S NOT FAAAAIIIIIRRRRRRRR AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Why are Radahn virgins such utter fags?

>>725288006
Yeah, except she random hyper armor that might or might not manifest during her attacks or in between, all you need is a badly timed attack thinking you'll stagger her, instead she goes into waterfowl immediately in the middle of your attack. Lovely boss

>>725284321
Yes, and most boxers are beatable if you don't just let them wail on you with their best punch, retard.

>>725319479
Armor is good in this game so being a nudist light rolling is kinda awful most of the time.

>>725271613
The shield thing is the biggest lie on /v/, It's literally mechanic "principle autism".
On principle, she regains health, meaning that blocking is bad because it benefits her.
This is without taking into account that the player can easily out-dps the healing due to her extreme stance break susceptibility. People simply didn't do it on principle.
>>725272431
>>725290097
>>725321040
Lies and cope. /v/ was embarrassed that they were collectively wrong and memed into a false understanding of the game. It's just like the Shields are bad in DaS III meme was revealed to be something by Matt Mattosis embarrassing himself and now that its out there /v/ has fallen back on it.

No one wants to admit that they didn't try anything except frustratingly trying to dodge the attack, not even attempting the Frost jar technique.

>>725272185
>clear counterplay
Tell me one reliable counterplay to Waterfowl that a person could guess without either looking it up or spending over a dozen hours on trial and error.

>frost pot
Not remotely obvious and requires you to react very quickly for it not to miss. Also requires farming ingredients.
>bleed
Not obvious, extremely hard to do since you have to exactly time the bleed proc and you need to be able to hit her while she's in the air.
>stance break
Doesn't work, she's immune.
>shield
She heals off it, which tells the player it's not the intended counter method. Also she'll guard break you and kill you if your shield isn't very strong or if you're low on stamina.
>sprint away
Doesn't work if you're stuck in an animation, if you have a wall behind you, or if you don't react immediately.
>circle+unlock+precisely timed roll+two more timed rolls (that you have to do in specific directions)
Might as well be entering a cheat code for how complicated it is. Requires hours of practice to reliably pull off and is completely impossible for a person to naturally guess. Only discoverable through extensive trial and error or looking it up.

So go ahead, tell us the clear counterplay. I'm listening.

>>725324543
People cope super hard about this movie being "easy" for some reason.
If the answer to it is looking it up because no sane person will think that unlocking target and circling around her is what you have to do (which is just bad programming)

>>725273558
I've seen a lot of Youtubers I otherwise like defend Malenia even more religiously than you are right now and I still think she's shit. Hell, the ones who hate her usually claim she'd be great without Waterfowl, and I think she'd still be an obnoxious anti-fun mess.

>>725274084
>throw frost pot
>it misses

>>725278169
>circlestrafing and/or i-framing
Both of those are literally impossible to evade Waterfowl with. You have to combine them in a highly specific way to make it work. Did you play the game?

>Series that started out with slow, very visible attacks because you were weighted and every single one of your inputs needs to be conscious and aware.
>Evolves into fucking elden ring where bosses just chain ridiculous combos together.
There's a reason Demon's souls, Dark Souls 1 and Bloodborne are considered the best.

>>725278169
>Then again, I'm a MonHun player, so perhaps my standard of "difficult" is skewed
Two different skill sets. If you weren't a disingenuos retard you would know this.

>>725274084
It also sucks to do because you can miss even when locked on, and the timing is super tight regardless so if you're in an animation when she jumps it will flop.

Here it is.

>>725305274
It was nerfed significantly. Carian Retaliation is the best parry now.

>>725325795
>NOOO how dare devs make different games for different appeals
outside of roll spamming (which you could do at low equip load in 1) your inputs still need to be conscious and aware unless youre outright fucking yourself up or have an op tank build

>>725316981
Yeah? Well the challenge still needs a point of similarity to the rest of the game.
The entire game builds up your skills and habits for fighting enemies, and this should apply to the boss (which will test how well you've learned from the game and the mechanics it uses).
What you're suggesting is similar to studying for a test only for half of it to be on completely different subjects.

>>725324543
>Tell me one reliable counterplay to Waterfowl that a person could guess without either looking it up or spending over a dozen hours on trial and error.

vow of the indomitable

>>725327621
You can't read a swing anymore, you need to eat shit or guess and hope your input is the correct way intended to avoid damage because the devs sure didn't give a shit what you could feasibly react to. They expect you to get hit. That's the difference between Elden Ring and older games.
You can no longer see a big weapon coming down at you and make a decision to dodge this way or that way or see if you can block it without shitting stamina. You have to know what your decision is before it even comes out.
THAT is why elden ring's boss design is bad.

>>725282345
this is the kind of person that plays a broken character in a fighting game and says their best move is "easily reactable" because it has 17 frames of startup
please commit suicide posthaste

>>725316981
despite being a baiting faggot you've accurately summarized whats wrong with the entire fromsoft souls fanbase, a bunch of retards who dont value consistency and are unironically entertained by shapes and colors shit like pcr phase 2