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Anonymous No.725367880 [Report] >>725368181 >>725368203 >>725368318 >>725368325 >>725368838 >>725368884 >>725369084 >>725370505 >>725377156 >>725378215 >>725380834 >>725382819 >>725384467
>If you move towards the West, you move away from the East.
>You're absolutely right — and very sharp reasoning. I will now surrender.
Anonymous No.725368125 [Report] >>725378483 >>725385776
>but why
>me no like you
Anonymous No.725368181 [Report] >>725374573
>>725367880 (OP)
You are tricking him into a temporary retreat, I don't get why you don't understand it, he himself says he will return
Anonymous No.725368203 [Report]
>>725367880 (OP)
The interaction has more depth then letting colonel autumn leave. Because if you mock the legate he'll see you though the players trick Autumm just runs like a bitch.
Anonymous No.725368248 [Report] >>725368375 >>725378829
being able to talk down almost everyone is stupid
Anonymous No.725368318 [Report]
>>725367880 (OP)
Why can't Bethesda write as good ,if not more gooder, than the pure art of Obsidian?
Anonymous No.725368325 [Report] >>725368495 >>725368496 >>725371407 >>725371578 >>725373018 >>725373297 >>725373703 >>725374410
>>725367880 (OP)
>NOOO YOU CAN'T JUST HECKING HAVE MULTIPLE WAYS TO BEAT A BOSS BY SPECCING INTO CERTAIN STATS
>CHARISMA SHOULD BE POINTLESS IN KEY GAMEPLAY MOMENTS
Anonymous No.725368375 [Report]
>>725368248
t. low charisma faggot
Anonymous No.725368467 [Report]
anti-fnv fags will criticize the game's writing before going back to playing their mobas and gachas
Anonymous No.725368495 [Report] >>725377825
>>725368325
If you want to make it a possible option, you need incredibly good writing and detailed choice system for it to work.

This is basically like convincing a group of basketballer home invaders to leave with words alone.
Anonymous No.725368496 [Report] >>725368638 >>725368660 >>725369065
>>725368325
>NOOO YOU CAN'T JUST HECKING HAVE MULTIPLE WAYS TO BEAT A BOSS
you didn't beat him
>CHARISMA SHOULD BE POINTLESS
you're arguing that combat skills should be pointless if you can just talk your way out of everything
Anonymous No.725368638 [Report] >>725368919 >>725384543
>>725368496
Fans of speech checks just want an IWIN button.
They are bad at video games and need a crutch.
Anonymous No.725368660 [Report] >>725374373
>>725368496
No one ever criticized the game for having combat
Imagine someone unironically saying "lmaooo imagine just shoot lanius with a 50 cal hurr durr"
Anonymous No.725368838 [Report]
>>725367880 (OP)
I'd rather just fight him. The whole game ends afterwards anyway
Anonymous No.725368884 [Report]
>>725367880 (OP)
>ywnbaw
>…you’re right
Anonymous No.725368919 [Report] >>725370360
>>725368638
An "I win" button that you have to invest heavily in to even use. It's called an RPG for a reason.
Anonymous No.725369065 [Report]
>>725368496
"i like pancakes" "oh so you hate waffles" type post
Anonymous No.725369070 [Report] >>725369742 >>725369748 >>725373698 >>725374628 >>725385405
>If the player character sides with Mr. House, Caesar's Legion or takes charge of an independent New Vegas and passes all the Speech checks needed to convince Oliver to withdraw rather than fight to the death, Oliver's military career is ruined by the NCR's failure in the Mojave campaign. If the player character sides with him, Mr. House states in dialogue that there is a 36.5% probability Oliver will commit suicide.

Owned so hard by the played he kills himself lmao
Anonymous No.725369084 [Report] >>725374857
>>725367880 (OP)
speechtards be like "yoo this gameplay is fire!!"
Anonymous No.725369742 [Report] >>725370020 >>725370556 >>725374927 >>725375898
>>725369070
House is the best ending for the NCR if you think about it
>no more expansionist nonsense
>all the current inept administration flushed down the drain
>electricity and water from Hoover Dam keep coming at reasonable prices
>House offers protection to NCR caravans
>citizens get a libertine city-state neighbor they can go on vacation to gamble and do drugs
Anonymous No.725369748 [Report]
>>725369070
It’s actually 41%
Anonymous No.725370020 [Report] >>725370386
>>725369742
well I mean
literally nothing matters what you do
the NCR gets nuked, Vegas gets nuked and everything you do is undone

there's no long term for anyone, the only choice that matters in the game is how you treat the BoS, so you can join up with them when they take over Vegas
Anonymous No.725370360 [Report] >>725370482 >>725371535
>>725368919
That is the problem. You invest so heavily into the IWIN button it becomes all or nothing. If you fail the speech check you have no viable option to victory. You either save scum or eat an entire playthrough because of bad design.
Anonymous No.725370386 [Report] >>725370495
>>725370020
What are you talking about?
Anonymous No.725370482 [Report] >>725370676
>>725370360
>You invest so heavily into the IWIN button it becomes all or nothing
Not really. Plenty of skill points to go around and max out several stats. You'd know if you played the game rajneesh.
Anonymous No.725370495 [Report] >>725370559 >>725374307 >>725376078 >>725385537
>>725370386
the fallout show
S1 it has the NCR destroyed
S2 it has Vegas destroyed, most of it's population killed and the remaining ghouled and the BoS takes over at the end
Anonymous No.725370505 [Report]
>>725367880 (OP)
>by taking the east, you will take in all of its degeneracy and weakness
Not hard to understand
Anonymous No.725370556 [Report]
>>725369742
>
Anonymous No.725370559 [Report] >>725371089 >>725376078
>>725370495
>the fallout show
good one anon
Anonymous No.725370676 [Report] >>725370823
>>725370482
So which is it? You have to invest heavily or skill points are plentiful?
You are talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Anonymous No.725370823 [Report] >>725371072 >>725371215
>>725370676
>You have to invest heavily or skill points are plentiful?
Both?
You can have a lot of money and still spend a lot of it, anonymous. 10 CHR takes time to build up to, but this is at the very end of the game, so you have plenty of time to reach that point. But you wouldn't do that unless you wanted to, so this ending you're seething about is entirely optional. But you know this, you're just a ridiculous person who ragebaits on purpose.
Anonymous No.725371072 [Report]
>>725370823
So it is a roleplaying game where you play as a gunslinging, smothtalking, bomb throwing, weapon repairing, specialist.

So your bog standard Bethesda game. Complete with non sensical writing.
Anonymous No.725371089 [Report] >>725371175 >>725371415
>>725370559
like it or not but that's canon from this point onwards
the west coast lore has been destroyed entirely
Anonymous No.725371175 [Report] >>725371336 >>725376078
>>725371089
Considering I’m not buying any future fallout games ever again because of that, its not canon for me.
Anonymous No.725371215 [Report]
>>725370823
> It is optional
Yes focusing on a particular build is a staple of RPGs.
The JoAT build is a fairly recent trend from Bethesda and Obsidian.
Anonymous No.725371336 [Report] >>725371714 >>725371831 >>725371952 >>725376078
>>725371175
Lots of people don't think we landed on the moon.
That doesn't change reality either.
Anonymous No.725371407 [Report] >>725374181
>>725368325
The speech checks should have prerequisites that would convince him to retreat than just "if west then no east"
Anonymous No.725371415 [Report] >>725371660 >>725373418
>>725371089
You know the concept of nukes destroying civilisation gets a bit stale when they do it every few years instead of letting shit build up
Anonymous No.725371474 [Report]
i made up my own fallout setting and i think about it when im in bed
Anonymous No.725371535 [Report] >>725371692
>>725370360
Its an RPG, you can kick his ass on your next playthrough
Anonymous No.725371578 [Report]
>>725368325
>NOOO YOU CAN'T JUST HECKING HAVE MULTIPLE WAYS TO BEAT A BOSS BY SPECCING INTO CERTAIN STATS!
>CHARISMA SHOULD BE POINTLESS IN KEY GAMEPLAY MOMENTS!
Anonymous No.725371656 [Report] >>725371803
I like defeating him with facts and logic, and then picking the smug answer that enrages him into combat, and then blowing him away with my anti-matter rifle.
Anonymous No.725371660 [Report]
>>725371415
I mean even that part wouldn't have been too bad if they did something original with it

Shady Sands gets nuked by Vault-Tec and the NCR splinters into a bunch of factions stuck in an endless civil war, and you set a Fallout game in the middle of that?
I'd honestly go for that, would be a neat way to advance west-coast lore, war never changes and all that

However the major thing that ruins everything is not that the NCR went down, it's that the NCR went down as a background event and only went down to facilitate the entire region being taken over by the BoS

they completely ruined all west-coast lore for one reason only: to sell more BoS merchandise because NCR merchandise didn't sell enough
Anonymous No.725371692 [Report]
>>725371535
So you would eat a playthrough because your build failed at the critical moment?
You are more dedicated to autistic rule following than I ever could be.
Anonymous No.725371714 [Report] >>725371983 >>725372136
>>725371336
>reality
Its fiction. When I walk away, it stops existing and theres nothing you or any other marketer can do about it.
Anonymous No.725371803 [Report] >>725375252
>>725371656
Jack of all trade builds are far to overhated.
Give the player the freedom to enjoy themselves as they see fit.
Anonymous No.725371831 [Report] >>725372081
>>725371336
The moon is part of reality. A video game universe is not reality, it's a made up world. At least the moon landing is about a real object.
Anonymous No.725371952 [Report]
>>725371336
We didn't land on the moon but the Annunaki who live past the ice wall have.
Anonymous No.725371983 [Report] >>725372136 >>725373139
>>725371714
> When I turn off a game it no longer exists for anyone else.
That probably sounded better in your head.
Anonymous No.725372081 [Report] >>725372301
>>725371831
Were you a victim of public education? Your reading comprehemsion is awful.
Anonymous No.725372136 [Report] >>725372287
>>725371983
>>725371714
Unironically that’s how it works for me. I make up my own canon for all the games I play and I ignore whatever anyone else says. I don’t see anything wrong
Anonymous No.725372287 [Report]
>>725372136
That is called head canon. Nothing wrong with coming up with that. Your head canon is irrelevant in the real world.
Anonymous No.725372301 [Report] >>725372494 >>725372707
>>725372081
Sounded to me like you were comparing a video game world to real life history, in terms of how it matters when we believe a happening is "canon" or not...
Anonymous No.725372494 [Report] >>725372619
>>725372301
So you went to a public school. I will try to simplify my points from now on.
Anonymous No.725372619 [Report] >>725372885
>>725372494
Thank you. You can begin by doing it right now
Anonymous No.725372648 [Report]
i went to public school… :(
Anonymous No.725372707 [Report] >>725372865
>>725372301
Simplified version
You thinking a thing has no actual effect on a thing.

Whether it is the moon landing of the canonicity of things you don't like.
Anonymous No.725372865 [Report] >>725373158
>>725372707
You made an attempt
Anonymous No.725372885 [Report] >>725372998
>>725372619
I may struggle to scale down to your level so bear with me.
If you continue to struggle let me know.
Anonymous No.725372998 [Report]
>>725372885
I'm struggling still...
Anonymous No.725373018 [Report] >>725373917
>>725368325
it's not the existence of the choice that is the issue, but rather the substance of the choices themselves
Anonymous No.725373139 [Report] >>725373348
>>725371983
Its fiction. It doesn’t matter what other people think. I can cut it off whenever I like and because its fiction, my view is just as valid as whatever conglomerate owns the franchise
Anonymous No.725373158 [Report] >>725373276 >>725373282 >>725373639 >>725375189
>>725372865
I am trying to simplify things enough for you.

Lets try this.
Your opinion holds no real weight in the real world.
Things will remain canon despite your distaste.
I know the feeling of impotence in a matter you are passionate about is frustrating but that is where we are.
Anonymous No.725373276 [Report] >>725373445
>>725373158
Ohhhh I see now. But canon doesn't real. It's all made up.
Anonymous No.725373282 [Report] >>725373606
>>725373158
>he cares this much about following canon after it shits the bed
You realize that whole religions (the origin of the concept of “canon”) are based entirely around when they cut off what is canon? Lmao
Anonymous No.725373297 [Report]
>>725368325
It’s actually really homosexual and trannoid coded that the best speech builds in new vegas are charisma 1 high INT builds. You KNOW trannies self insert into this faggot shit
Anonymous No.725373348 [Report] >>725373575
>>725373139
It isn't though. If you say something isn't canon it doesn't matter.
If the owner of the IP says it is not canon it is no longer canon.

You may now sputter about how unfair it is at your leisure.
Anonymous No.725373418 [Report]
>>725371415
Brother the finale of new vegas is le epic bear and bull man nuking people
Anonymous No.725373445 [Report] >>725373771
>>725373276
And the people that make it get to say what counts.
You do not factor into that decision.
Anonymous No.725373575 [Report] >>725373778
>>725373348
Nah. I can cut it off whenever I want, and I have. My view is just as valid, if not more as I care about it and understand it more than a soulless megacorp. You cant make me buy your dogshit or watch your shows. They will never be real :)
Anonymous No.725373606 [Report]
>>725373282
Thanks for the entemology lesson.
It changes nothing about the points I have made.
Anonymous No.725373639 [Report]
>>725373158
In works of fiction especially multi media stories now like fallout you can have independent and contradictory events that are all canon. It’s actually really common.

You are correct as of right now the fallout show is the latest canon and basically everything is destroyed. If they decide to make fallout new vegas 2 transsexual boogaloo and retcon the events of the show that is now canon. They don’t even have to retcon they could always go
>that’s just one version of fallout
It’s really not that big of a deal
Anonymous No.725373661 [Report]
test
Anonymous No.725373698 [Report] >>725374628
>>725369070
>if you let the President get assassinated, he becomes a martyr
>if he makes his speech and leaves safely, he becomes the face of warhawk expansionism and gets thrown out of office after the Battle of Hoover Dam
Anonymous No.725373703 [Report] >>725378086
>>725368325
Speech and Charisma in Table Top works because it relies on the players themselves having to actually work together and form an argument to resolve a situation via persuasion, guile, or intimidation; but still relying on a dice roll to see if someone was convinced or not.

They kept that in Fallout 3, but it felt cheap because it felt more like a coin flip than a real investment. You're not dumping into speech because you want a better outcome, you're just loading the coin to always land on heads.

New Vegas does kinda better, but the new frustrations are forgetting how much speech you may need for a good ending for a quest, and having a [69/70] situation. That and Speech just ends up feeling like clicking an "I win" button to just skip a fight.

Just to ask rpg boomers, how did Speech work in say Fallout 1 and Arcanum? Were correct speech paths hidden until you had a secret hidden amount of Charisma? Or was it more reading and navigating the conversation and dialogue options?
Anonymous No.725373767 [Report] >>725373980 >>725375420
Realistically what does Caesar expect to happen when hr takes Vegas?
His army is like 95% illiterate retards and tribals who want to enslave the cityslickers, and his only competent leaders are military only per his admission (just an autodoc for the most important guy, no physician)
He conquers Vegas and disposes of the Omertas as planned, now what? Somehow go from monstrous conquerors to playing ball diplomatically? Who would want to do business with you?
Anonymous No.725373771 [Report] >>725373937
>>725373445
Ya but like I said, either way it's all made up. While I'm playing something old I can imagine anything happens afterwards, and so whatever "really" comes after doesn't ruin my experience!
Anonymous No.725373778 [Report]
>>725373575
It is no where near as valid.
If you think the Last Supper could have really used Batman attending it won't matter.
Just like your proclamations of what is canon in a game you do not control.
Anonymous No.725373917 [Report]
>>725373018
this desu, if a choice is literally just a choice at one point in a dialogue tree, it's pointless

make me have to do several separate (action) choices which combined will lead to the outcome
Anonymous No.725373937 [Report] >>725374084
>>725373771
If that is how you cope with them going a direction you disagree with have at it.

To be honest that is a fairly common cope in Morrowind threads as well.
Anonymous No.725373980 [Report] >>725374374
>>725373767
he doesn’t do business
he wants to roll over the united states and have everythign get assimilated by the legion and reset the usa.
it’ll fail because he’ll never get past the NCR’s main hq
Anonymous No.725374084 [Report] >>725374287
>>725373937
I dunno why that would be. Morrowind getting blasted and the volcano blowing up is blad ass.
Anonymous No.725374181 [Report] >>725376478
>>725371407
Reminds me of how Outer Worlds 2 has a thing where certain speech options are unlocked by finding details in the environment or from other players.

To apply it to Lanius, instead of just dumping into speech and going "Lol go home", you have to find evidence from say Legion scouts and NCR Rangers making it clear how fucked The Legion *really* is. And maybe Caesar being alive or not can have an additional effect.

Like if he were alive, The Legion is more organized; but Lanius is kept on a leash and more liable to lend an ear.

But if Caesar is dead, the Legion is falling apart, but this causes Lanius to take command more Zealously, especially since his boss is dead, so talking the firebrand is alot harder.

And then if you don't have that info, THEN you can do like Speech 80+ to just get him to surrender right away, as like a final option for those that did dump into speech. Or just take it away since in-lore Lanius is the kind of guy you can't just ask to fuck off.
Anonymous No.725374287 [Report] >>725374409
>>725374084
The modders came up with a mod based entirely on how they thought TES was going.
They shill for it all the time.

They big mad Bethesda ignored 99% of the weird shit from Morrowind going forward.
Anonymous No.725374307 [Report] >>725376078
>>725370495
>the fallout show
nobody cares
Anonymous No.725374373 [Report]
>>725368660
Me I just grab a LMG and craft as much anti-armor ammo as I can and unload.
Anonymous No.725374374 [Report] >>725374568
>>725373980
he'll never get past the first city in the NCR, more people should do the Barter conversation with Lanius, it's the actual good conversation, the speech one is frankly the afterthought

The legion is a pre-modern army, it has no true supply chains, it lives off the land, and against tribals this is incredibly effective since it allows them to move swiftly from tribe to tribe using the resources from one tribe to defeat the next

But against a nation it flat out doesn't work, Lanius says trying to take Denver, a single city, nearly destroyed the Legion through sheer attrition since the siege took longer than expected and they couldn't feed their own troops

Against the NCR? they would be sieging down Denver and when they take it... the city has already been emptied of all food and water
The NCR can engage in scorched earth because they have more than 1 city, they can move their population out of the way because they have railroads and the Legion, who's most efficient means of transporting cargo is brahmin wagons, cannot supply their army

2 days without water and a man is no longer in fighting condition, 4 days without food and even the hardiest most fanatic soldier can't fight properly anymore

The NCR would defeat an invading Legion army without firing a single bullet
Anonymous No.725374409 [Report] >>725374501
>>725374287
Well bethesda lacking creativity and imagination isn't good either. What mod is that?
Anonymous No.725374410 [Report]
>>725368325
>CHARISMA SHOULD BE POINTLESS IN KEY GAMEPLAY MOMENTS
Yes, at best it should convince a boss to fight you 1v1 or fight with a handicap(like not using his strongest weapon).
Anonymous No.725374501 [Report] >>725374615
>>725374409
Tamriel Reimagined.
Anonymous No.725374568 [Report] >>725375016
>>725374374
Wasn’t denver controlled by natives and dogs or some shit sitting in skyscrapers lol
Anonymous No.725374573 [Report] >>725376180
>>725368181
we already know what happens to legates that fail from joshua's example
seems a bit silly that he'd retreat knowing what awaits him at home
Anonymous No.725374615 [Report] >>725374939
>>725374501
I only found the tamriel rebuilt one which looks pretty cool from what I remember. Fits well, at least visually, with the version of the world featured in morrowind.
Anonymous No.725374628 [Report] >>725374874
>>725369070
>>725373698

See I think Speech is more satisfying when it's used to non-fatally DESTROY someone.
Anonymous No.725374857 [Report]
>>725369084
It's why I pair with guns. I like speech as an option if there's a situation that calls for it. But if there's one where it feels more better to let the irons talk, then so be it.

I'll use Speech to help get the Dam fight together, but I'm doing a proper boss fight with Lanius, if that makes sense.
Anonymous No.725374874 [Report]
>>725374628
Imagine if speech 100 allowed you to convince people of anything. That would be so stupid haha. I'm glad it's not the case and the devs looked for ingenious ways of making the use of words plausible.
>cuts to Lanius being convinced to wear a chicken outfit
Anonymous No.725374927 [Report]
>>725369742
>>no more expansionist nonsense

Since when has that stopped Imperialists and Warhawks before? They'll just lick their wounds and come back with a better plan.
Anonymous No.725374939 [Report] >>725375113
>>725374615
Yeah they are married to Morrowind. Their intellectual curiosity is stunted. They are generally harmless because the people interested in playing the mod are making the mod.
They have found their audience and it is them.

They argue about their head canon the same way you argue about yours.
Anonymous No.725375016 [Report] >>725385968
>>725374568
it was controlled by natives and dogs yes, but the NCR could also defend their cities
evacuate the population, leave behind a contingent of troops with enough supplies for them but not enough for the Legion

the NCR has a lot of weaknesses in how they approach warfare, but their strengths are particularly well suited at urban warfare, they have plenty of automatic rifles and bullets to feed them, easy access to explosives, their rangers are very well trained for small unit tactics and asymmetric warfare

it would be ridiculously easy for the NCR to force the Legion to take a city block by block, losing immense amounts of soldiers in the process failing to find the relatively low number of defenders since the Legion just isn't set up for that kind of warfare

And again, these are not hypotheticals, Boulder city shows what rangers can do to the Legion, the Boomer's bomber ending has the Legion refuse to even try to annex them because the casualties would be so horrendously onesided, the Remnants ending has them successfully engage in a guerilla campaign against Lanius, despite being outnumbers like 5000 to 1 and most of them being 80 years old

And after all this shitshow, after spending weeks clearing out a city block by block, there's no god damn food anywhere and they have to march several weeks to reach the next city
The legion flat out cannot do that
Anonymous No.725375113 [Report] >>725375419
>>725374939
I'm not arguing about my head canon though? You don't even know what my head canon is! In fact I change it to suit each fallout game, including fallout 4, and even TES. I think it is your intellectual curiosity that is stunted by being so tied to the concept of canonicity, that you can't explore and enjoy the depths of your imagination.
Anonymous No.725375189 [Report] >>725375496
>>725373158
I don't care goofy. Aids and being gay also exists and I don't have aids nor am I gay (like u) so that shit can go ahead and exist without me all it wants just like Fallout
Anonymous No.725375252 [Report] >>725375571
>>725371803
>NOOOOO
>YOU MUST PLAY TO A STEREOTYPE OR CLASS
>AAAAAAAAAA
Anonymous No.725375263 [Report] >>725382080
>General famed for throwing dead bodies at things until he gets what he wants, regardless of the cost or logistics
>Explicitly labeled as a reckless berserker by all of the legion's brass, Caesar himself, and the man who formerly occupied Lanius's position
>Speech 100 is such a powerful, arcane skill that it completely warps this gorilla-brained moron into a civilized human being
Anonymous No.725375419 [Report] >>725375802
>>725375113
I don't care what your head canon is. It has nothing to do with discussing the games at all.
That is the point you seem to be struggling to grasp.
Anonymous No.725375420 [Report]
>>725373767
I suppose try to recruit the locals into the army, then use Vegas as a staging point for invading the West.

Maybe try to use tribals or down and outs as cannon fodder? Spies to destabilize here and there, and then cross your fingers something doesn't happen.

I mean Legion is always the route that feels most lacking; and just reminds me that Legion fans are mostly Neo-Fascist larpers or people that think Rome and Cowboys sounded cool.
Anonymous No.725375496 [Report] >>725376487
>>725375189
Once again your head canon fails to matter.
Anonymous No.725375571 [Report] >>725376372
>>725375252
Some people are so simple minded they actually believe that.
Anonymous No.725375802 [Report] >>725375952
>>725375419
Ah I get it now. But then why did you decide to dispute anon's discussions that were clearly about their headcanon in the first place? Let people discuss their head canon in peace.
Anonymous No.725375898 [Report] >>725376357 >>725376428
>>725369742
Convincing the NCR to elect someone protectionist or isolationist is not a good plan. They will make California turn inward and starve House of income.

Vegas will forever be known as the ones who "defeated the NCR" which will make them poisonous to tourism as well.

House is assuming the lure of bright lights and gambling will lure people in, while apparently not realizing places like New Reno exist and have been operational longer than Vegas.

House is the choice for retards who will believe any demagogue and do no critical thinking of their own.
Anonymous No.725375952 [Report] >>725376051
>>725375802
Why? If they want to discuss their head canon start a thread to discuss their head canon.
You don't have a right to leech off of actual discussion of a game.
Anonymous No.725376051 [Report] >>725376452
>>725375952
Like it or not, head canon is a part of actual video game discussions. There's no rule or law that states otherwise after all...
Anonymous No.725376078 [Report] >>725376471 >>725376498
>>725370495
>>725370559
>>725374307
>>725371175
>>725371336
Just a reminder the show is 100% canon. Characters from the show appear in the official games.
Anonymous No.725376180 [Report]
>>725374573
Half the time he is the new Caesar so nobody's going to gove him the Joshua treatment.
Anonymous No.725376357 [Report] >>725376571
>>725375898
New Vegas has the added benefit of safety as compared to New Reno which is controlled by drug slinging mobsters still. Reno is a couple of run down dive casinos where Vegas has full on resorts and a robot police force.
Isolationism can only last so long until they realize the only way to maintain their massive expansion is to buy power from Vegas which aside from the Second Battle of Hoover Dam has been nothing but accommodating. Yeah, Vegas staying independent will rub the politicians the wrong way but the general population won't care when they have consistent power and access to luxury.
Anonymous No.725376372 [Report]
>>725375571
Honestly there's room for both. Sometimes I want to play a specific kind of character; but I confess in NV I eventually break off that railroad to just "play it normally". Kinda sucks since I want to properly role play.
Anonymous No.725376428 [Report] >>725376861
>>725375898
>They will make California turn inward and starve House of income.
The NCR needs Hoover Dam. It's the main reason they're fighting so hard to keep the Mojave. Protectionist or isolationist, people will still need water and electricity which House is more than happy to sell.
>Vegas will forever be known as the ones who "defeated the NCR"
Not if you save Kimball, spare Oliver and sign a treaty with the NCR. Common citizens have no reason to hold a revanchist attitude towards Vegas as long as their day to day life isn't affected which it won't.
>places like New Reno exist and have been operational longer than Vegas.
New Reno is an unruly violent shithole with no House type figure keeping things in order, NPCs in the game tell you this.

No solid arguments against House, the only valid choice.
Anonymous No.725376452 [Report] >>725376581
>>725376051
Do you go into a thread discussing The Lord of the Rings and bring up your fanfic about how Gandalf was actually a Jedi expecting anyone to care?

Same with video games. If you want to discuss your head canon start a thread for it and let it live or die on its own merits. If it is interesting or thought provoking enough it will flourish.
Anonymous No.725376471 [Report]
>>725376078
>Characters from the show appear in the official games.
>Fallout 76
Anonymous No.725376478 [Report] >>725376574
>>725374181
That mechanic is in pretty much every RPG, including New Vegas. Outer Worlds 2 is only different in that it tells you you don't have the required info.
Anonymous No.725376487 [Report] >>725376753
>>725375496
Different guy and once again I do not care. I don't have headcanon, I don't even know what happens because I haven't seen it. Understand that you trying to make me care about a franchise I don't engage with fails to matter. You engage with aids, I don't. That's for you to deal with not me. And you cannot make me care like you do. That's the reality of this back and forth, and you ought to accept reality as you said.
Anonymous No.725376498 [Report] >>725383336
>>725376078
At some point you have to just shrug and accept it for what it is; lest you drive yourself insane.

Is 76 worth the time investment? I want to give it a chance. Also what gun is that? Looks pretty cool.
Anonymous No.725376571 [Report] >>725376861 >>725377525
>>725376357
>New Vegas has the added benefit of safety as compared to New Reno
>saying this shit when two of the three casinos on the Strip will try to murder you
>and Securitrons will immediately try to put you in prison forever if you are framed for murder, no trial
Shut up, retard.
Anonymous No.725376574 [Report] >>725376660
>>725376478
>Outer Worlds 2 is only different in that it tells you you don't have the required info.
Personally I hate it when games tell me about options I don't have.
Anonymous No.725376581 [Report] >>725377181
>>725376452
It's just a what if scenario bro. If people want to discuss "what if gandalf was a jedi", they can do it, there's no "rights" about it. It's perfectly fine, like it or not. I'm going to close this thread now. I hope you will be less bothered by such things in the future ;-0
Anonymous No.725376660 [Report] >>725376815
>>725376574
I'd rather know it exists than go through the game never knowing and finding out much later.
Anonymous No.725376753 [Report] >>725377083
>>725376487
Where did you get the impression l want you to care about anything?
I was just letting anon know nobody cares about his headcanon. Other than himself.

If you and anon wish to discuss his gead canon start a thread about it and quit leeching off of actual diacussion.
Anonymous No.725376815 [Report] >>725376973
>>725376660
You crazy? I love that shit. That's what makes replays worth it. The "Damn, I can do that?" moments. Showing me what I can't do is just annoying.
Anonymous No.725376861 [Report] >>725377756
>>725376428
>The NCR needs Hoover Dam.
Yeah, the Dam is a deux ex machina that exists so the story does not devolve into total retard war. Meanwhile you have robots and computers running for 250 years straight, not to mention the other myriad of technology that receives no maintenance. The NCR would sooner ween themselves off the Dam and get some group (probably the Followers) to invent some of these magical energy generators for households than allow themselves to be bled dry by House indefinitely.
>Not if you save Kimball, spare Oliver and sign a treaty with the NCR. Common citizens have no reason to hold a revanchist attitude towards Vegas as long as their day to day life isn't affected which it won't.
How many Americans still hate Japan for Pearl Harbor? How about the Middle East and 9/11? Slava Ukraine? Build that wall? Ordinary people are idiots and easy to propagandize, and House doesn't own any news nor television networks in California.
>New Reno is an unruly violent shithole with no House type figure keeping things in order, NPCs in the game tell you this.
See >>725376571
Anonymous No.725376973 [Report] >>725377087
>>725376815
Unless it's a dev that wants to really hide it and I just simply CANNOT. More a mild frustration than anything.

I mean how do you find out about it if you absolutly didn't get any hint of it in-game? Let players? TV Tropes?
Anonymous No.725377083 [Report] >>725377319
>>725376753
You accept that I couldn't care less about Fallout in 2025 and it has no relevance in my life past like 4 which I barely played?
Anonymous No.725377087 [Report] >>725377453
>>725376973
I play the game and try different things I didn't do before and learn about new possibilities.

That's part of what makes BG3 so good.
Anonymous No.725377156 [Report]
>>725367880 (OP)
Remember it was a speech check, not an intelligence check.
Anonymous No.725377181 [Report]
>>725376581
> Somebody might want to discuss my fanfic.
Then start a thread about it.
Anonymous No.725377319 [Report] >>725377542 >>725377615
>>725377083
Sure. I don't know why it is relevant but if it helps you move on I will happily do it.
Anonymous No.725377453 [Report]
>>725377087
I suppose, but for me, a game is over when I get to the end. and the thing about RPGs is they're very time intensive to set up the stuff you want to do for a particular run.

Me I like variety, or sometimes I just want to move to a simple FPS where I just shoot things with glee. Right now, now that Outer Worlds 2 is done, I'm between getting into Deadlock, or replaying Tropico 4. But otherwise I'm indecisive.
Anonymous No.725377525 [Report] >>725377619
>>725376571
>saying this shit when two of the three casinos on the Strip will try to murder you
You take care of that doing the House questline dumbass.
This is about the House ending, not if the Courier did nothing.
Anonymous No.725377542 [Report]
>>725377319
Good. That's all I'm saying. Your headcanon beef is with other posters not me so carry on as you feel the need to bro.
Anonymous No.725377615 [Report] >>725377805
>>725377319
>Compromise
>on /v/?!

Did hell freeze today?
Anonymous No.725377619 [Report]
>>725377525
house also "took care of that" but he hired 3 tribes of niggers who will never stop being niggers
Anonymous No.725377756 [Report] >>725377947
>>725376861
>Yeah, the Dam is a deux ex machina
Do you know what a deus ex machina is? It's the most well defined piece of New Vegas aside from New Vegas itself, it also exists in real life you fucking troglodyte.
Anonymous No.725377805 [Report] >>725377934
>>725377615
What compromise was made?
Anon wanted me to concede an irrelevant point so l conceded an irrelevant point.
It helped move the discussion forward without costing me anything.
Anonymous No.725377825 [Report]
>>725368495
>with words alone
He's backed into a corner in his HQ after he just lost the dam, there was an incredible amount of violence leading up to this conversation. He's looking at a fight to the death to preserve his honor and you give him a way to leave without looking like a bitch.
Anonymous No.725377934 [Report] >>725378309
>>725377805
Ok not compromise, but still, something that isn't just "I'm schizo, I'm correct, agree with me or I'll gore post to scare you away" type shit.

I'm very tired.
Anonymous No.725377947 [Report] >>725378113 >>725378118 >>725378249 >>725381636
>>725377756
Yes, in New Vegas Hoover Dam is a magic dam that remains operational despite how much maintenance dams need to not completely break down and cause ecological disasters.
Anonymous No.725378005 [Report]
>play Outer Worlds for a few hours a few years ago
>made character
>talked to NPCs for first few quests in first town
>save and quit
>years later
>dont even remember Pavarti my companion
>out in the Vale doing first few quests I don't rememeber
>im universe advertising is beyond cute tongue and cheek, it's obnoxious and annoying
Now that I'm not stuck talking about the cannery and capitalism to every villager that didn't get a workman's comp claim approved and I'm put killing animals, robots, and marauders looting and shooting this game is fun. Pavarti's magical ability to spawn right next to the enemy for her super attack is probably the best part about it, really gives off Boone vibes in a melee form. I hope this high is ridable for a while, I just got done talking to the hippie comune leader and I hope I don't have to fuck over one town's way of life just to progress, but seems like there'll be no 3rd option for progression.
Anonymous No.725378086 [Report]
>>725373703
iirc there was a minimum threshold for speech to work at all, a bit past that it was a dice roll and then at really high speech it was guaranteed to work. or maybe im just hallucinating
Anonymous No.725378113 [Report]
>>725377947
I don't think distracting a fraction of the securitron forces will be so simple, but the rest of the point is poignant
Anonymous No.725378118 [Report] >>725378190
>>725377947
It's a setting with a Orbital sun cannon and robot dogs; I don't think it matters as long as it serves it's purpose in driving the plot.
Anonymous No.725378190 [Report] >>725378767
>>725378118
Thank you Pete, very cool!
Anonymous No.725378215 [Report]
>>725367880 (OP)
>game let's you turn a human wearing full power armor into a mist of fine paste if you punch him with your bare hands just right
>Anons take dialog options in said game seriously

What is wrong with all of you? How do you get that far into the game and find that to be the issue? That shit is banal compared everything that came before it.
Anonymous No.725378249 [Report]
>>725377947
It's literally stated it wasn't operational when it was first taken.
The NCR has full fledged universities, it's not a stretch they could train some hydroelectric engineers.
Anonymous No.725378309 [Report]
>>725377934
This isn't a TES thread. Those have the anon you are thinking off. He will drop an infographic about one of his myriad boogeymen when anons start disagreeing with him.
I think he has been here for at least a decade. Poor guy.
Anonymous No.725378483 [Report]
>>725368125
I mean look at him. There is no way that decrepit creature had all his mental faculties intact. The mainframe he was hooked up to was doing most of the thinking for him.
Anonymous No.725378767 [Report] >>725378850
>>725378190
You know just going "ur pete hines" doesn't slam down my argument of having suspension of disbelief right? You're just trying for a cheap gotcha and then jacking yourself off like you shut me down.

You didn't nerd. It's retro-futurism where we had Nuclear Cars and Atomic-Battery powered, wrist mounted I-phones. If you question everything, you're just ruining the setting, just so you can be a snooty nerd on his high horse.


i.e. a faggot.
Anonymous No.725378829 [Report] >>725379618 >>725380132 >>725384568
>>725368248
being able to talk down almost everyone WITHOUT LEVERAGE is stupid.
Anonymous No.725378850 [Report]
>>725378767
Not interested in discussing the nuance of a setting with nuclear cars and atomic battery-powered iPhones? Retard? Nigger? Cunt?
Anonymous No.725379618 [Report] >>725380035 >>725380132 >>725380234
>>725378829
Maybe that's the crux of the RPG Speech issue; the devs feel they have to please the speech crowd by having high speech havers have a "get out of jail"/"click here for Golden Ending" button.

>Have Speech be a option that changes the dialogue window from normal into a sort of mini game where you see many things to say, but the challenge is you have to understand the person you're talking to, his baggage, what leverages, gossip, tidbits, etc etc you have, and navigating the conversation into a path you want, while keeping an eye on reactions to know what may or may not set someone off
>Most modern RPGs tend to have "good/nice" options be more top while "negative/snark" options trend more bottom. So instead, maybe have all options be a 3x3 where they're in no particular order, so there's no bias and players have to actually read and think about what they want to say.

I'm basically thinking a fancier, detailed version of the persuasion mini-game in Deus Ex Human Revolution where you have to actually mind what you say and "read" the people you're talking to in order to get what you want. and Speech is just a button that opens up *that* window, separate from typical dialogue options.
Anonymous No.725380035 [Report] >>725380101
>>725379618
haas, surprised to see you here
Anonymous No.725380101 [Report]
>>725380035
Who?
Anonymous No.725380132 [Report] >>725380303
>>725378829
>>725379618
I don't think the devs are catering to anyone over having traditional RPG features. Diplomacy and negotiating are and have always been core traits and design of role playing, and I think it speaks more as an entry into a role playing genre that the final boss isn't just able to be killed but reasoned with.
In Fallout 1 you had to do homework but could totally thwart The Master with facts and logic.
Anonymous No.725380234 [Report] >>725380637
>>725379618
at the very least they should make the speech option a bit different. maybe instead of speaking lanius down you speak to his top lieutenants and convince them to turn on him. you should most definitely not be able to speak down a rabid pitbull that is 5 seconds away from mauling you.
Anonymous No.725380303 [Report] >>725381136
>>725380132
True, but the sore spot is when Speech just becomes the "I win" button to skip fights and get the best outcomes without really doing much besides pumping Speech asap. It's not satisfying.
Anonymous No.725380637 [Report] >>725380817
>>725380234
Reminds me of the Frank Horrigan fight where you can't speech him down. I hard agree; speech should NEVER work against someone whose absolutly committed, at least not unless you can use speech to mentally destroy the guy.

Like, drafting an example as I write this

>Bad Guy is a fire brand radical that you cannot talk down.
>So instead you find members of his family and maybe his former GF and tell them what's going on and convince them with speech to come with you and through emotional baggage and loved ones, maybe they can reach out to him since, well they're loved ones.

But otherwise I like your "rabid pitbull" analogy.
Anonymous No.725380817 [Report]
>>725380637
thing is though, the ending of NV makes it clear Lanius is NOT another Frank Horrigan
He uses his reputation, but he's fairly intelligent behind the mask

Also one thing people sorta forget is that the speech with Lanius is never about convincing him of your side, if you try that you auto fail, what you're doing is helping him acknowledge what he already knows himself

Now, what should have happened is that even this would fail unless you brought actual proof with you and mentioned the right situations, like every speech 100 check against him should have had 5 speech 100 options, only 1 of which was correct
Anonymous No.725380834 [Report] >>725381009 >>725383530
>>725367880 (OP)
>90 speech craft
>put on naughty nightwear
Yep its min maxing time
Anonymous No.725380958 [Report]
if it's a final boss than the speech check should just debuff him at best
Anonymous No.725381009 [Report] >>725381147 >>725381234 >>725383378 >>725383530 >>725384084
>>725380834
do you even min max fag? not just the nightwear but also, party time mentats, normal mentats and alcohol, and meeting people with the perk that doubles the skill boost. you dont need anywhere near 90 speech.
Anonymous No.725381136 [Report] >>725381289 >>725381445
>>725380303
But that's your choice to build that way. It's a flaw if the game makes you do it to achieve a victory state you can't through combat.
I will say it would be neat if there were some mechanic, minigame, or follow up to speech that had you interact and perform something to fulfil the check (FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NOT A RNG ROLL), like having 100 lockpicking doesn't skip the picking game for you.
Anonymous No.725381147 [Report]
>>725381009
such a nigger
Anonymous No.725381234 [Report]
>>725381009
Yeah I do fag. I minimalized effort amd required materials lmao. Get dabbed on loser
Anonymous No.725381289 [Report]
>>725381136
just make it so you actually have to do something beyond just pumping the speech to 100. maybe you need to find out some shit like you had to read the laboratory files about super mutant infertility in fallout 1.
Anonymous No.725381320 [Report] >>725381649 >>725385271
I think broadly the problem is the ideal form of a speech system in an RPG has three separate and complicated working systems.

The first is speech as a stat producing alternative inputs to conversation. This in itself is a writing hurdle; deciding what negotiation players can't do without meeting stat requirements or some form of disposition system. A disposition/rep system irons out some of the creases because players are no longer bound by a binary "can/can't"; in that it may just be harder or take longer to build trust with an NPC; as well as some negotiation and persuasion making sense as needing none (you aren't going to be able to get your enemy to trust you more by giving them chocolates, you're going to have to just send an argument).

The second is having meaningful gameplay within a conversation system; whether that's a minigame or just a horrifyingly broad web of conversation. Some CRPGs take the second route and while it can be great, it balloons the script sometimes tenfold. With how some modern games struggle to write linear dialogue, it would be a gamble to say the least as a design choice. The minigame would have to be not annoying and also not break verisimilitude; playing match-4 for the fate of the Mojave would be unironical subway surfers on your phone-- we can do without the key jingling.

The final one is diversity of outcome; which is perhaps the worst one to have to account for in scenario design. The Dam in NV is perhaps laughed over most because beyond the inputs, the output is fully binary: You end up fighting or you don't depending on whether or not you point to your compass hard enough in Lanius' face. If different situations and results ended up changing the fight or moving the fight or otherwise meaningfully shifting the scenario (and I do mean meaningfully, there'd have to be a reason to bother).
Anonymous No.725381445 [Report]
>>725381136
Perhaps it's a me problem then. I like the "best" paths when they're there, and I've played enough New Vegas to play it "optimal" every early run. Like I could go through the fast routes to get to Vegas, but then I miss out on the long normal path that has XP and loot to sell for money.
Anonymous No.725381636 [Report]
>>725377947
The entire reason House ants the Platinum Chib that you get shot for is to awaken his legions of robots taking a nap underneath Ceaser's camp and upgrade them and all the Securitrons at the Strip. If you side with House a morbillion Securitrons roll up to back you up and stand in the background ominously when you're talking to Oliver. House also has manpower of his own and with all the profits he makes he can hire mercs, not to mention the Courier if they side with him.
Also this anon is forgetting that the NCR is stretched really thin and have so many problems you spend the entire game dealing with, and much of the soldiers in the Mohave are conscripts who were struggling against Caeser's Larpers. That war already took everything out of them, and killed much of the Rangers, now you want them to fight advanced death robots that can fire rockets and have gatling lasers? For no reason other than greed?
It shrimply wouldn't happen
Anonymous No.725381649 [Report]
>>725381320
Sorry, I spaced out and didn't finish my point.

If these changed the outcome of the scenario it would seem much less silly. Uncertainty of outcome is one of the reasons there are stat rolls in RPGs, but variability of outcome is a less explored but equally valid tactic. Maybe in the most ideal world with the most important sidequests finished and the right information in hand you can just tell Lanius to go to hell in such a way he'll enjoy the trip, but otherwise? Maybe you convince him, but not his subordinates and some second in command takes the lead, or vice versa where some lieutenants hang him out to dry.

Overall, just smoothing out the possibility space is one way to make social outcomes make more sense.
Anonymous No.725382080 [Report]
>>725375263
Yeah it's almost like his reputation is half-truth half-intimidation tactic or something and you don't get to be caesar's top guy by being retarded
Anonymous No.725382819 [Report]
>>725367880 (OP)
How do you not understand that at speech level 100 you are so chsrismatic that facts already considered are now being used to persuade the character is part of the majesty?
Anonymous No.725383336 [Report]
>>725376498
>Is 76 worth the time investment? I want to give it a chance.
Honestly? It's okay. It's a Fallout themepark where you can build your own pop-up base you can re-place anywhere in the world, and it's got some cool stuff unique to itself, and a lot of highly retarded stuff to go with it.
I've played and enjoyed worse games.
Anonymous No.725383378 [Report] >>725383560 >>725384149
>>725381009
>meeting people with the perk that doubles the skill boost
The magazines were a fine idea but in execution there's no way to know when you would need to use one outside of metafagging, besides the combat ones.
Anonymous No.725383530 [Report]
>>725380834
>>725381009
>min/max
I put all my points in Explosives and Stealth and reverse pickpocket grenades onto every NPC that is rude to me.
Anonymous No.725383560 [Report] >>725383806
>>725383378
the game shows you exactly how much you need, you just exit dialogue and use the book.
Anonymous No.725383806 [Report] >>725384523
>>725383560
That's what I mean by metafagging. Using the boosts for the medicine check at Nellis or explosives check in the sulfur mine as examples is fine but doing it mid-conversation always felt shitty.
Anonymous No.725384084 [Report] >>725384692
>>725381009
you can easily get 100 in every skill unbuffed without minmaxing, i think you actually have to actively gimp yourself so you don't end up all 100s in the late game
Anonymous No.725384149 [Report] >>725384594 >>725384919
>>725383378
And let's be real, we NEVER use the combat ones. I just shoot people and they die. It's shrimple.
Anonymous No.725384467 [Report]
>>725367880 (OP)
>have to explain supply chains to a general

legion bros we're not looking too good here..
Anonymous No.725384523 [Report] >>725384996
>>725383806
thats not metagaming THOUGH. metagaming is accessing information only found outside the core gameplay. the core gameplay reveals you the skill needed to pass the check and allows you to exit dialogue at your leisure.
Anonymous No.725384543 [Report]
>>725368638
Its a bethesda game. It doesnt take skill to go into vats and click heads either, or pop a few potions after
Anonymous No.725384568 [Report]
>>725378829
>WITHOUT LEVERAGE
you mean you singlehandedly winning the battle?
Anonymous No.725384594 [Report]
>>725384149
Same with most consumables in all games. Besides resource restoration, I never have the presence of mind to use them in 99% of encounters.
Anonymous No.725384692 [Report]
>>725384084
forgot to say i set the xp gain to like 25%. even then i feel overleveled pretty quick.
Anonymous No.725384919 [Report]
>>725384149
get voracious reader and you will actually use them since you can create a hundreds willy nilly
Anonymous No.725384996 [Report] >>725385404
>>725384523
Restarting the conversation because you know it requires a skill check is effectively save scumming thoughbeit.
Anonymous No.725385018 [Report]
>godd howard dropped the nuke on troon vegas, thus erasing from canon altogether
godddomosama...I kneel....
Anonymous No.725385271 [Report]
>>725381320
>playing match-4 for the fate of the Mojave

Reminds me of the wild wasteland in Fallout The Frontier, where you can fight the BBEG with a game of Caravan.
Anonymous No.725385298 [Report]
>Courier already marched across the Dam
>Fortification Hill burned down by Securitrons
>Bomber and Vertibird circling overhead
>each and every last Legionary dead
>NCR Army brining up the rear as they secure the Dam
>Lanius's camp slaughtered to the last Brahmin
I think the really issue with the dialogue is that it fails to remind the player that the Legion already fucking lost. The Legion's advance on the Hoover Dam was an utter failure, Lanius doesn't have anyone else to throw at the battle except for himself because now he's talking to the guy who lead the charge against him.
Anonymous No.725385404 [Report]
>>725384996
no, it isnt. its like going to a zone with too powrful enemies and backing out. the game was intentionally designed to be like this.
Anonymous No.725385405 [Report]
>>725369070
Throw him off the dam Yesman
Anonymous No.725385537 [Report]
>>725370495
>the fallout show
Anonymous No.725385776 [Report] >>725386094
>>725368125
to be fair if you are in that room in any context you have already decided you intend to kill him.
Anonymous No.725385968 [Report]
>>725375016
>Legionbros getting dabbed on by packs of wild dogs and the few tribes that didn't cuck out to Eddie's bullshit
Now imagine what the 80s could do to their numbers.
Anonymous No.725386094 [Report]
>>725385776
I just wanted to say hello face-to-face.