Thread 725607307

>Hey guys let's make a Zero game by removing what made Mega Man X feel so great to play! Remove upgraded armor, replace life ups/sub tanks with puny cyber-elfs that cost an absurd amount of crystals, add a live life system, give Zero a tiny ass life bar and limit Zero's movelist greatly while giving him only 3 elements to choose from
What was their fucking problem?

you have 4 weapons that upgrade during the game. he has a perfectly good moveset

>>725607307 (OP)
It's crazy because X4/X5/X6/X8 perfectly understood how to make Zero feel good to play.

>>725607434
They don't really give that much moves to Zero since whenever a weapon upgrades it's either shot/slash more times at once or charge faster

>>725607307 (OP)
Only z4 is actually uncontestedly well designed as a game. I like all of them even if the first 3 are just kusoge. With 1 being the least eggregious

>>725607307 (OP)
Each game should have just added different versions of the Rod instead of replacing it each time. And let him keep whatever he got from the games prior, including chips. Maybe add in a "they broke between the events of the games" for the tutorial or first 4 levels but then repair them halfway through and let Zero go wild.
If by Zero 3 he was kitted out with everything from Z1 and Z2 then he'd feel like a true fucking monster that everybody is right to fear. Plus it'd make the Zero vs. Omega feel more impactful being a more cohesive MMZ Zero vs. MMX Zero, sprite or not.
And Zero 4 wasn't planned anyway, so doing a full refresh there is fine.

2 > 3 > 4 > 1

>>725609291
They're all pretty bad but 2 is the worst.

they're the best megaman games
yes, all of them

>>725607307 (OP)
I never got the point of Cyber Elves, so I am meant to raise them but if I use them they actually make my scoring worse and some of them are 1 time use only even. This is the worst side feature/pet raising mechanic I've seen in any game series ever. Love this spin-off series like you have no idea by the way.

The Zero series is a case study in fixing what wasn't broken. Granted, X5 was already fucking things up before that series even launched, but Zero ran with it regardless. Megaman's a series that gets better as you keep it simpler, so adding all the rankings and weird unlocks and cyber elf bullshit diluted and distracted from what was a reasonably good base foundation. Had they kept all that fluff out and focused more on good level designs and momentum, this series could've at least been better than X4 on average.

>>725607307 (OP)
Stop making this retard threads. Zero is peak MegaMan

>>725609584
Yeah, you probably enjoy getting high ranks, which entails largely ignoring cyber elves as a mechanic unless you want to commit resources to the "free A rank" bandaids. It's like the series is trying to be two different games at once by appealing to two different skill levels, but it ends up just feeling weird.

>>725609036
3 is the best one desu

>>725609036
>Only z4 is actually uncontestedly well designed as a game. I like all of them even if the first 3 are just kusoge.
Reasonabl-

>With 1 being the least eggregious
>least
u wot m8

>>725609584
I guess you use the elves as cyber tanks once in the first playthrough when you aren't going for score, then that's it.

>>725610442
Or it's a mechanic that's there so your 6 year old little brother can beat the game.

Dashing in Zero feels better than dashing in X, I think.

>>725610208
he just hates the ex skills getting gated off

>>725609036
incomprehensibly retarded bait but i bit, fuck you

>>725609464
they're the worst megaman games
yes, all of them

>>725612117
Dashing has like no weight in Zero, neither does wall kicking. It feels like shit.

>>725607307 (OP)
Tried replaying Zero 2 earlier and fuck this stage, it’s like X7’s Wind Crowrang stage but with screen crunch and cheap shots from off screen bullets and taking leaps of faith. Cool music though at least but still a bad stage.

>>725613457
>Blind jump
Any platformer is immediately bad if they have this.

Didn't you make a similar thread a couple days ago? And all that stuff thats good about the x series really doesnt matter, people only glaze the first and 4th game. as bad as these Zero games get, worse than a lto of the x games, and I say this as someoen who likes the zero games more than the x, at least there was a more consistent vision, all thanks to being on that purple box with the tiny ass screen.

everyone here saying fixing what aint broken dont really get it. its the fact they put this shit on console, and the fact they hadnt gotten the hint that they probably should scale back the budget and be simpler, that screwed over the x series after 4.a console platformer is going to be extremely overshadowed each time, and combine with the short development time, they never had a chance.

>>725613710
So a lot of the megaman games in general, even the good ones.

>>725607434
I wonder why they took the Final Fantasy 2/Secret of Mana approach with Weapon Proficiency Grinding, feels very out of place in a 2D platformer and in a game that ranks you based on how fast you complete a mission. And in later games said rank dictates if you’ll get Saber/Buster skills. It’s a doesn’t make sense and is unintuitive.

>>725610208
>>725610074
>>725612542
In 1 you just have to grind xp and don't have to prove you don't need ex skills in order to get ex skills. Simple as.

>>725613835
Classic Mega Man games pre-7 don't really do blind jumps, except the occasional spike fall challenge as a gimmick in its own right. 7 and 8 don't really do downwards vertical scrolling in the way blind jumps matter. Mega Man & Bass did it, but that's Mega Man & Bass. Frankly you don't start seeing that problem in earnest til the X series past the first game.
It really is around the point the series quality started dropping off or on side games that are kinda shit that blind jumps became a serious problem. I like a couple of the Zero games, but the GBA should never have been the platform for a hardcore platformer.

>>725614004
they wanted to pad it out. the cyber elves especially add so much farming
the weapon xp is a little annoying but you don't need to grind

>>725614296
Cyber elves weren't padding they where cut content for ciels campaign.

>>725612117
Does it really?

>>725607307 (OP)
Zero is the best way this could have been done on the Gameboy Advance.
They didn't remove all of that because they wanted to, they removed it because the game would be 2 hours long if you could get Black zero armor parts and then get S ranks to get all the chips/EX skills.

>>725614369
the cost to upgrade them is padding. it takes way longer to do that shit than it does to beat the game

>>725607307 (OP)
Megaman Zero is by far better than Megaman X though. I like X 1 and 2, 3 is okay, but the rest suck.

>>725614417
those stopping frames suck because he still has momentum to match the animation. In the playstation X games you have to jump to keep from dash-sliding everywhere

>>725613835
X1 and X2 didn't have many blind jumps IIRC. It wasn't until 4 where it really became noticeable and coincidentally that was when the screen estate got reduced due to larger sprites.

>>725614582
I remember Flame Stag's stage that had blind jumps into volcanos and Bubble Crab's stage that had blind-jumps over bottomless pits.

>>725613283
bullshit it does.

>>725614490
Zero doesn't need all of ciels kit and it would be rediculous to make them cheap. It would have been similar to zeros xp system instead in length which is fine.

>>725614573
I mean, if you're playing X in any way to go pretty ham with dashing, you're dash jumping for precision anyway. Even if it's tiny little hops, it's a very dash-jumpy trilogy.

>>725607307 (OP)
Weird how these posts always focus on the extraneous bullshit and not the gameplay. Huh! Cyber elves are easy mode basically and can be ignored, you have plenty of health as it is (Zero isn't that difficult imo, easier than classic MM or X) and Zero is much more versatile and balanced than X in terms of his moveset. He just has less wacky gimmick moves for you Google search which boss it's best against. Again, they peeled away the bullshit and the game is better for it... cry more. Look forward to seeing this thread again tomorrow

>>725607307 (OP)
The game was tough and fun
I need to go back and finish it sometime

>>725614790
It doesn't.

>>725609813
X4 isn't exactly good just simple as fuck.

Every time someone complains about Zero 2 and 3 (the best game in the series) I know it's just someone that got filtered by the rank requirement for EX Skills

>>725613283
It doesn't have "weight" in X, just lag. It feels way better and makes more sense in Zero as you're a super robot, not a guy in a football uniform

>>725617747
"Lag" as in the start up animation which doesn't even effect the dash itself. Come up with a better cope hombre.

>>725610442
You use them all at once to unlock ultimate form once you've done everything else. But yeah when I was a 6 year old kid with poor reflexes and focus, it was >>725610585 all the way. I don't think they're as bad or poorly thought out as everyone makes them out to be. The very intro to the first game starts by suggesting that you shouldn't use them unless you absolutely have to.

>>725614004
It's to give the player a sense of power progression. It doesn't make sense to you because you are a retarded shitter. It's not designed around grinding, but it does allow incompetent faggots like yourself to grind.
You misunderstanding the system and using it in the wrong way doesn't make the system bad, it just makes you retarded.

>>725609584
It's a crutch for shitters

>>725613457
lmao filtered
>screen crunch
doesn't exist when the game is designed around the very screen size you're playing on you retarded nigger

>>725613710
Nigger detected

>>725618197
Based voice of reason

>>725607307 (OP)
I played the Megaman Zero games for the story.

>>725618197
>it's a crutch for bad players
>that you have to find in hidden parts of the level
>then grind to be able to use
>on top of the score penalty for using them at all
They are just as poorly thought out as everyone says, if not more so. The ultimate form is shit. It's the equivalent of locking easy mode behind beating hard mode, what's the fucking point?

>>725621041
you easily get a bunch of the healing ones and shit without going out of your way

>>725622813
I played X2 plenty and I don't remember this part al all.

>>725623193
Right after the mini boss.

>>725621569
NTA, but I guess there's some annoyances with the elf system
>in z1 and z2, can only equip like three at a time
>need to equip them at specific points (transervers or ciel)
>this means that finding an elf doesn't mean you can use it until you finish or quit out of the stage
And while Zero 3 fixed two of those points, cyber elves were still mostly locked behind secret disks, so you couldn't use them as soon as you got them. So even if you wanted to use elves, they could be a bit of a drag.

>>725623193
It's on an optional path if you go take down one of the x-hunters.

WHAT AM I FIGHTING FOOOOOOOOUUGGHR

>>725609291
Based, 2 really does have the most memorables stages.

>>725624697
to get eight abilities from eight animal themed bosses and then go beat up good ol' sigma, silly

>>725607307 (OP)
the only X upgrade that ever mattered was the dash and that comes free now.
basically, cope, seethe and dilate.

>>725613457
shoot a charge shot and jump behind it, this shit is basic problem solving

>>725624860
the best fix would've been allowing you to dash while holding the shield, this would've been the perfect place for it

>>725624860
Your charge shot out runs you moron. Are you going to stop and charge every time you fire the fucking thing?

>>725621569
That still begs the question of what the rest of them are supposed to be for

>>725624860
Been a while since I played Z2 but can't you dash and then activate the shield mid jump to retain momentum?
>>725625021
You'll only need it to clear one specific jump of that segment.

Inti were a bunch of hardcore MM fans used to speedrun the X games with no upgrades, so that's how they designed Zero, a game for tryhard autists like them. Eventually they realized (or Capcom pointed out) that they needed to make it playable for the average player, so they were forced to slap a bunch of crutches onto it that don't really make sense or synergize with each other. That's why the game is significantly worse and less elegant than X, which was already perfectly designed to suit new and hardcore players.

>>725625314
>You'll only need it to clear one specific jump of that segment.
That's a reoccurring issue with the series as a whole, don't kid yourself.

>>725625314
First reply was meant for >>725624967

>>725625337
>Inti were a bunch of hardcore MM fans used to speedrun the X games with no upgrades
No they weren't.

>>725609584
It extends the olive branch to babbies by giving them a way to make the game easier by grinding but establishes hierarchy between them and the big boys by telling you that you are in fact a lesser player for using them.

And I think thats fair. As a kid I was really bad at these games and I used the elves. I didnt even care about scoring because I had a hard time with the base level difficulty of the game already.
Now I ignore them and play for A/S ranks.

Its good design and fixes the typical JRPG issue of retards sitting in a bush at the start of the game and grinding slimes until level 99 and then cry about the lack of difficulty but I guess it hurts peoples egos. By MMZ3 they added those satellite elves that let you interact with the elf system even if you score so I guess they listened to people.

>>725621041
>capcom made the easy mode an elaborate system that makes shitters interact with the game in a different way and thats a bad thing

play gravity circuit

>>725625337
Inti were ex-capcom employees, some of them working on Mega Man titles like X2. That's why they had connections with Capcom and Inafune, and got the whole MMZ ball rolling.

>>725625438
Make no mistake, I still find it an interesting feature set but I think at the same time at least in the first 2 games the concept of the cyber elves is divorced from the proposed and expected gameplay. Zero 1 had a lot of exploration you could do outside of the missions but you also didn't need to do it since the missions would put you in those places most of the time. But there were times that exploring before a mission was better for collecting items and that's another thing I find interesting but also distant. The later games removed most exploration out of missions and this roam free map didn't return until ZX for example.

>>725625604
>inti made your reward for exploration the opportunity to grind for a few hours then a middle finger if you actually do it
>this is in fact bad design

>>725607307 (OP)
>you can't exploit weakness without grinding your weapons, meaning you can't use them you'd need them the most, at the start of the game
>most elves require a stupid amount of grinding to even be usable
>messed up the lives/continue system that had been in place since the first MM for no reason at all
>no indication when you're picking a mission which boss you are going to face, again something they got right since MM1 but now needs to change for some reason
>you can now fail missions and render those levels and the upgrades found in them permanently unreachable. Did anyone ask for this?
What a terribly designed game.

For me, it's the Elven Wars.

Suddendly this big lore drops about this fascinating being called Mother Elf, all the havoc it caused and how it all went to shit. Turns out it is purely fanfiction since it was never depicted properly, we just have to take it at face value, see some dark elves here and there and then out of the blue fucking Omega is stated as being this legendary dude from the past and I'm meant to be impressed, the Dark Elf thing resolves and turns out you're actually a clone but not really because the mind is actually Zero for real and I'm still processing when the Dark Elf plot happened in the X games but then a human takes over the plot and I don't know anymore.

Too many gaps, some too large in frame. Maybe just make a damn game that actually explains shit. Megaman games aren't vague, they just purposefully throw plot points forward and expect them to stick. Master Albert.

>>725607307 (OP)
>megaman Zero is BAD because it's not megaman X
ok, anon, but have you considered that you should play mega man X if you want to play mega man X? Just a thought

>>725626394
Megaman Zero is bad because they're bad games.

>>725621041
I mean, someone can have crap reflexes and still want to/be able to explore levels. Don't you remember playing video games as a kid? Do you also remember how games used to encourage you to get better at them and explore to discover secrets? It's almost like you're arguing against exploration

>>725626394
No it's bad because it is just Mega Man X but worse. It's not its own thing like Legends or Battle Network are, it's a direct sequel to X

>>725626437
>>725626507
oh, ok, thanks for the clarification, very insightful

>>725626465
The reward for exploration is a grind for an upgrade the game doesn't even want you to use. That's the argument being made against exploration and it comes solely from the devs.

>>725626587
You're welcome shit for brains. Next time don't speak unless you're spoken to.

>>725626601
You can also collect them for the sake of collecting them (like Pokemon), you don't even need to grind them all, and it's not like you can't pick or choose one or two to use while still making it possible to get an A rank

>>725607307 (OP)
I've always considered Megaman a Sonic-tier franchise where the only good games were the 2nd and 3rd ones released 30 years ago, and only 'people' from Mexico to Chile cares about the rest.

>>725626258
Cyber Elves are fucking stupid and I hate them. They're an asspull to handwave away the Sigma virus and we don't even get to see it. Omega and Weil are also equally retarded and nonsensical, so is Copy X. Zero's amnesia is also super retarded, super unexplained, and never gets resolved.
God this story was so fucking shit, but uh Zero looks stoic in some cool scenes so it's actually based and kino

>>725626905
you're just ignorant and don't play games, there's a whole lot of people like yourself but you're harmless and tolerable, like a little bug, so its ok

>>725626905
I can't tell if you're being ironic

>>725626845
>You can also collect them for the sake of collecting them (like Pokemon),
Too bad that the elf UI is also so bad that you can't even look at the full art of the elves, just a tiny shitty portrait.

>>725626845
So yeah they're a shitty reward for exploration that the game doesn't want you to engage with

Damn didn't realize my boy zero's games were so hated

>>725612117
X stops dashing if you turn around, I hate it

>>725627168
I don't hate them, they're all fairly average games. They just have a shitty story and some baffling design decisions

>>725614004
Makes sense for the first game and you don't have to grind that much

>>725609584
It's this weird design philosophy of "if you're so good, you won't need to use mechanics of the game"
Like in other action games where you lose score for using items. Doesn't make much sense desu

The real issue with MMZ is the spam of enemies that come rushing from offscreen, basically requiring rote memorization to know exactly where and when they appear; especially the second intro level for some fucking reason
Also fuck crystal grinding, it doesn't make sense, if I want to use Elves i'm already swallowing my pride to become a F-rank shitter, I'm glad they slashed crystal costs in Z2

>>725607307 (OP)
why does this series make Xfags seethe so much

>>725626959
the animated comercials for Zero are indeed kino
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWya9byihIo

>>725627483
it paints X as a big incompetent dude that wasn't able to foresee he was building the doom of humanity (and later everything) with every choice he made, offscreen mind you, that lead to this future.

>>725627483
Cause liking X is their whole personality.

My big issue with the MMZ games is the removal of boss weapons and weaknesses to them. Makes the gauntlet at the final levels a real pain.

If I want to play megaman, where should I start?

>>725627832
Mega Man X2

>>725607307 (OP)
>play game NOT named “Mega Man X”
>is mad when the game is, in fact, NOT Mega Man X

>>725627832
The first game, if it’s too slow for you, then try Mega Man X

>>725627832
Megaman 2 or 3 imo
X start with the first or X4
Zero start with the first, the series is best played in order as it's an overarching narrative.

>>725627832
4 or 7

>>725612117
Agreed. The afterimage while dashing adds to the sense of momentum, too.

>>725627372
makes perfect sense.

>>725609584
Only one other gamer gets it? Its just a difficulty assistance. It is for people who are bad at the game but its not like the designers hate you or anything like that. Here is a way for you to still beat the game despite your lack of skill. Maybe during your grinding you might even get good.
Or
Be a hero. Be Zero. Earn the S and save the elves.

/v/ will defend the ever loving shit out of bad design if you just dangle the possibility for an S rank in front of them.

>>725621041
All of this is only upsetting if you're bad at the game and don't want to admit it.

If the crux of the problem is that the game doesn't hide the ranking system from you then I'm sorry but you just have to get the fuck over it. As a kid I used all the cyber elves I wanted and scoffed at my terrible hunter rank but enjoyed the games regardless. Now I play them for S ranks. There's no issue.

>>725607307 (OP)
>it's a downgraded version of zero because of lore implications

>>725625981
I think they shouldve underlined that elves are sentient beings and that using them kills them.

>>725629725
Megaman Zero is a very early game in the context of the industry so it can be excused for having flawed experimental design.

>>725629725
What's the bad design?
>Elf grinding
Elves are to help people who can't beat the game normally. That's what grinding is for. It makes games easier. Good design

>>725622813
a bit dickish but at the same time its not like you have to commit to that jump as you have the wall slide that lets you scout it out.

>>725629954
>and scoffed at my terrible hunter rank but enjoyed the games regardless.
At the time everybody was pretty much trained to ignore scoring systems anyways, because the norm was retarded lazy arcade era "get the high score!!!" carry over filler shit that didnt do anything.
Took me at least some time to rediscover that these systems can be good in the new era of MMZ,DMC and NG.

>>725626465
No game should reward "exploration." Exploration means walking around. Why should the game hand out power ups for walking around? Games should reward you for getting good at the fucking game, albeit not in the way Zero does it where vital parts of the moveset are locked behind rank.

>>725625337
X games are easy on their own and have no scoring system to push the player to get better. At most there is self inflicted "buster run only" autism which lead to retards crying about X6 requiring armor at points.
Zero series has a much superior design which lets you play it like a baby X game and gather all the upgrades if you are bad or actually play it properly and giving players the proper framework for it.

>>725626959
>but uh Zero looks stoic in some cool scenes
based and kino.

>>725630608
I wouldn't call any of the EX moves vital, the really good ones only feel that way if you're already going for S ranks for the sake of it. If you just want to beat the games with mediocre rank the basic combos and charge attacks (especially with elemental chips properly matched) are plenty. Elves, as the crutch that tanks your rank and ability to obtain A-S ranks, are much more powerful than EX moves.

>>725627426
if you shoot regular shots while dashing forward it usually slows incoming enemies enough for you to react them.

>>725629725
eternal D-rank in all games he ever played detected

>>725630687
and by playing both you come to understand that classic MegaMan is best since it has little to no upgrades for you to waste your time collecting in the first place, allowing each stage to be tailored for a relatively uniform set of abilities

>>725626959
Sigma Virus overstayed its welcome, glad it got wiped out and forgotten by everyone. Let mavericks be genuine mavericks and not retards that forgot to update their antivirus.

>>725630940
*flies over this post with rush jet*

>>725609584
>Use crutch mechanics, get penalized for it
See also using First Aid sprays in classic Resident Evil, using any items in Devil May Cry, etc. It's not exactly unusual in Capcom games.

>>725630884
They are vital since Zero is super inflexible without them. The jump spin slash that Zero could do by default in the X games is an EX skill and it's the big one I'm thinking of since it dramatically extends the range of your saber's hitbox in the air, which is critical for defense
Either way I'm against moveset being locked by rank on principle anyway. The reward for higher ranks shouldn't be gameplay related, they should have put in cosmetics or changed the story or something like that

>>725619790
I know what you mean, but the Zero games have tons of spots where the challenge is offscreen & you gotta guess where/what it is exactly

>>725631212
Jump spin has never been an EX skill, it's always through elves or forms

Man replaying all the Zero games one after another really highlights how hard stage designs fall off after Zero 2. Like Z3 has a bunch of offensively boring stages like the library and the literal snowboard stage you don't even have to try to clear then Z4 goes back to having okayish stage design but nothing spectacular. Why do fags like these games? Good stages are important for any Megaman game.

>>725631212
>The jump spin slash that Zero could do by default in the X games
You mean the Kuenzan? I don't think that's been available by default ever except for maybe ZX1.

>>725629954
I only give a fuck about ranks because they lock what should be standard mega man fare behind them in 2 and 3. I care about elves being shit because they once again took standard mega man fare and added grinding to it for no discernible reason other than to waste the player's time.
The point is that there are too many hoops to jump through for you to be able to adequately justify elves as just being a crutch for shitters. They are a pain in the ass and a terrible reward for exploration

>>725607307 (OP)
I have a lot of gripes with Zero, but I feel they'd be a lot more stomachable if they hadn't fucked up the jump physics. Feels like shit to play.

>>725622813
funny because that same level is in megaman zero 2

>>725631269
in Z1 it was a level up, in Z2 it was a form and Z3/Z4 it was an elf

>>725631892
You have such fine control over it though. Movement feels great

>>725632018
No problem in any case it seems then? Elves can just be equipped in Z3 and Z4

>>725607307 (OP)
the lives system in the first game gave me aids

>>725607307 (OP)
>Hey guys! Let's make a game about one character and not a different character, and make that character distinct from the other character we're not making a game about

>shittier music
>shittier artstyle
>shittier exploration
>shittier graphics
>shittier levels
The one (1) improvement the Zero series has is letting you use a buster and saber simultaneously. Everything else is worse than its equivalent in X and often Classic too

>>725624697
This is why I'm fighting for
https://youtu.be/8lzVjApq23s?t=98

>>725631270
Oh I sure love all the bullshit that BARELY accomodated the GBA screen when they clearly didnt have the time to get used to the hardware. yes, teh first 2 games truly had the best level designs, truly.

>>725632170
>nothing but subjective complaints
>two of those complaints are the same thing
Notice how these people never talk about the actual gameplay. Z1 was donkeyshit because they were figuring things out while Z2 and Z3 were pure kino. Z4 was alright but it was clear that even Inti was fatigued with the games at that point. Still better than Z1 though.

>>725632331
The minute to minute gameplay is just Mega Man X with some extra bullshit on top and a more cramped screen. The stuff around it is what's worse

>>725630687
You can make X games as hard as you want for yourself simply by not picking upgrades. Simple and effective. Meanwhile Zero has layers upon layers of poorly designed systems to make it easier for first time players. But faced with such unintuitive design most people would just quit rather than grind crystals until they can afford the fucking equivalent of an E-tank.

>lock EX abilities behind ranks in missions
>make it impossible to replay a mission to get a better rank
>also don't even let you restart a stage for another run without resetting the game
Unironically defend this Zerofags.

>>725632059
It feels like a flash game.

>>725632504
Yeah but there's not a number going up or a letter given to me when I beat the game so that's just autism and doesn't count

>>725607307 (OP)
Hey guys, is the zero/zx legacy collection good?

>>725632560
A really good one. Feels like a MMX game more like. You have such fine control

>>725632627
this but unironically.

>>725632560
Were PS1 X games your first ones? Zero felt much more natural to me since I only played up to X3 before playing them.

>>725632530
The EX skills are basically fluff if you aren't trying to squeeze out as much DPS/burst damage as you can to make full clearing with an S rank easier. In other words, you only "need" them if you're playing in such a way that you'll get them anyway. Somehow people have convinced themselves that inti must have intended for the average player to get and use all the EX skills on their first playthrough while doing everything in their power to make that incredibly unlikely - no, Zero's basic kit is more than enough for every challenge in the game, which is why Hard mode goes as far as stripping it down.

>>725632862
MMX is a lot more weighty and committed, Zero plays way too loose. Hence cheap no idea what they're doing flash game dev feel.

>>725632923
No.

>>725633016
People convinced themselves that they should be getting EX skill by playing every other mega man game before it where getting the boss's ability after beating it was a given. It's almost like that's part of the series identity or something.
None of this justifies why you shouldn't be able to replay missions or even restart them without a reset. There's no thought there, just very poor design

>>725633029
It feels great though. Sucks to suck I guess.

>>725633180
Inti Creates moment, for every good idea they have 2 retarded ones
On Gunvolt 1 when they first developed it for 3DS, the director was given the choice between having 3D or 60 FPS
He chose 3D

>>725633180
There's nothing wrong with that design. It just demands good play. Try, fail, restart, try again. AKA get good.
You can go back to the mission however many times you want after you beat it.

>>725607307 (OP)
Enemies respawning when they're barely off-screen was stupid as well, it's not like you had weapon ammo to refill.

>>725633496
>There's nothing wrong with that design.
It's tedious. Restarting shouldn't involve soft reseting the game and loading a save file, and since it's all mission based anyway why not just let you give it another try once you beat it? It still "demands good play" just without the tedium.

>>725633180
You already get the elemental chips from beating the first set of bosses. It's almost like they're called "EX" as in EXTRA skills for a reason. Zero 3 also has head/foot chips and cyber elves that you can actually use very easily (many of them without affecting rank) so it's not like there's a lack of incentive to route stages smartly
>b-but it means the game has less sauce than the old games!
It doesn't in practice because Zero's kit, even without EX skills has more depth and facilitates more skill expression than any set of 8 robot master abilities ever did.

>None of this justifies why you shouldn't be able to replay missions or even restart them without a reset.
This is absolutely a flaw but also why any sane man plays on emulator and makes a save state at the start of missions if he hasn't practiced them already.

>>725607307 (OP)
>What was their fucking problem?
they wanted to make kino and succeeded

>>725607307 (OP)
Inti Creates are retarded and only make good shit by accident (but mmz is peak)

I still haven't been able to get through Zero3. The internet hivemind tells me that Zero3 is the fan-favorite, but I think it sucks and it's boring. Meanwhile I've beaten Zero1 and Zero2 about a half dozen times because they're so good. I haven't touched Zero4 yet because my autism won't let me touch it until I beat Zero3. I really just don't like it.

>>725633736
Elemental chips are fucking lame, they’re the same in all the games they appear in, and you only get three of them. They are not a valid replacement for boss weapons nor is any of that other cope you posted. The only analog is EX skills which should have been what you get by default.
If it ain’t broke don’t make it worse for no god damn reason Inti Creates you pack of apes

>>725633930
Yeah peak shit

>>725634074
I don't need to cope. Getting S ranks is natural and maintaining a minimum of an A rank without restarts is bare minimum, half asleep shit for me. I have all the ex skills I could ever want.

>>725627168
They're the worst selling Megaman games of all time so idk how you didn't know.

Every Zero and ZX game hovers around X5/X8 levels of quality. None of them are worse and none of them are better

>>725634191
Why are you championing a game that puts you to sleep retard

>>725633626
You can also just lose all your lives if you don't want to soft reset and you won't have to go through mission select either.
Retry the stage once you beat it? You can. Unless you mean to get graded again? But that's not inherently bad design. MMX games do thee same thing where the boss is gone once you beat the stage.

>>725627168
Are they though? Sounds like its just a skill issue. That'll piss off a few people and thats it.

>>725634583
Not an argument Pablo.

>>725627168
It's only nu/v/ that hates it.

I am too biased of a MMZ fan to argue about this so I'll just say it shouldn't have taken till Z3 to make cutscenes skippable with start, when BN knew to do that since the start
Also I think X4 is bad

>>725635038
Yeah and Z3 should've been more of an actual game than a glorified boss gauntlet with half nonobjective objectives you need to do for your rank.

>>725635038
Yeah, the cutscenes in Z2 make it a drab to replay.

>>725635145
Z2 had a lot more wrong with it than unskippable cutscenes.

>>725635038
X4's cutscenes are skippable though

>>725634803
It is though. Are you ESL? I'm saying it is hard and that makes some people angry. AKA its a skill issue, Doofus

>>725635038
X4 is better than every Zero game and it’s not even close

>>725635574
I don't like X4 much, but I'm forced to agree.

>>725607307 (OP)
>What was their fucking problem?
None, the Zero series mogs the ever loving fuck outta the X series.

>>725635038
X4 is
OK

>>725607307 (OP)
>Lets progressively turn Zero into a shota!
>Lets make a sequel spinoff with a breedable tummyslut!

Z4 is the only one worth replaying once you've finished Z1 to 4 back in the day.

i like axl

what games he from. i really just look at the porn

>>725636510
Yes, ZX and ZX2 were fine Aile is so fucking best

>>725613457
didn't those flying beetle platform things float left and right, slowly? so you could stand at the right of the thing and wait a few seconds

also why did you jump from the middle of the platform? this is a strong indication of you being retarded

>>725635432
Projection isn't an argument Carlos.

>>725636637
He's in X7, X8, and Command Mission.

>>725637394
Yeah the next one will be visible after a few seconds

>>725637664
oh. well, gotta admit, the only megaman i really cared to play more then like, 15 minutes was the soccer one for snes or nes, whichever one that was. that was pretty good.

>>725637915
That's an incredibly odd choice.

>>725637960
i dunno what to say. it was fun

>>725613774
OP here, i am not the same anon who made a MMZ thread a while ago.

>>725607307 (OP)
filtered

>>725613457
>>725613710
zoomers should kill themselves, these 2000 era gba games full of flaws are grand design masterpieces compared to the handholding babby shit you fags love, go play expedition 33 and your shitty modern street fighter with dancing blasian zoomers and sassy shaniquas taking up space that should be filled by guy not to mention inputs that do themselves and stfu

>>725616957
no, x4 is good. x4 is actually really, really fucking good. you are a faggot with terrible opinions and you probably smell like sweaty anus and armpit odor.

>>725609813
>The Zero series is a case study in fixing what wasn't broken.

try reaching higher for the top shelf with your hyperbole, pseud. "a case study in fixing what wasn't broken?" you sound like the biggest faggot in the universe.

>Megaman's a series that gets better as you keep it simpler

pure sophistry delivered in an obnoxiously stupid platitude, gamers are the dumbest people ever i swear to god

>>725613710
I agree with you completely. Blind jumps into death pits are basically a game's way of saying "Fuck you" trying to jump down fast without slowing down and enjoying all the hard work the devs put into making the level. Of the top of my head, Mighty No9 is notorious for having that. Silksong has it but people give Silksong a free pass

>>725639415
>no, x4 is good. x4 is actually really, really fucking good. you are a faggot with terrible opinions and you probably smell like sweaty anus and armpit odor.

X4 is mediocre and most only like it because it's piss baby easy

X2 is the best X game

>>725607307 (OP)
Another "I got filtered by MMZ" thread, oh joy!

>>725637915
Play Mega Man X8. X7 is awful. Command Mission is cool, but it's an RPG.
X8 is a genuinely great game.
Maybe too many gimmick stages but that fact also kinda makes it unique compared to other Mega Man games.

why is he so fucking cool

>>725636638
Thank you Aile for creating an incredibly specific and niche genre of fetish art

>>725607307 (OP)
Support project RCL now
https://youtu.be/Q6qrC_e61mc?si=sT_lDB-FKcqje7PG
https://youtu.be/ApppqtKxfzA?si=XZDrIGeaMpCpuikW

>>725643234
Why is her skin black though?

>>725643479
Layer’s dna

>>725643479
it's a bodysuit, you baiting retard

>>725639415
It's simple as fuck gameplay-wise. The only thing that made it "good" was it having more anime cutscenes than just boss intros like X3 did.

>>725643705
Funny thing is ZX characters are cyborgs and it's their "skin".

>>725643705
ZX humans are cyborgs. It's synthetic skin.
One funny thing is that the ending for ZXA suggests that one of the bad guys is doing something with the spare organs they've replaced with robot parts. What exactly they're doing with everyone's skin is a mystery but apparently something's happening.

>>725644091
>but apparently something's happening.
wrong.

>>725607307 (OP)
The MMZ series is insanely overrated, when it actually just sucks.

The gameplay is shit, the gimmics are shit, the level design is shit, the screen is way too fucking zoomed in, the art style and design changes are shit, Zero plays like shit when they already had it right in X4-X6 (no he doesn't play well in X8, that game sucks too)
And the story and lore are total dogshit, get the fuck out of here with that cyber elf war meme out of nowhere shit.

>>725609584
>>725610442
I actually played Zero 1 like this for my first time.
Zero 2 was a cakewalk after I completed the first title.

>>725644335
ZXC coming any day now dude. Any day now.

I always underestimated Model Fx until my last replay, it really is a useful model.

>>725636638
she looks really hot in the animated trailers

>>725644375
>Zero plays like shit when they already had it right in X4-X6
you're wrong in every conceivable way. x4 zero is a slapped together jank mess. the basic sabre combo shouldn't have so much hitstop that it feels like the ps1 is dying every time you hit with it. you shouldn't be able to frame 1 dash cancel every attack including the dash attack. x4 didn't even have a charge shot. it's ass. he's a slow lumbering tacked-on side character compared to the smooth, masterfully-designed GODSPEED EDGEBOY

>>725647807
>you shouldn't be able to frame 1 dash cancel every attack including the dash attack
>he can't fighting game

>>725642530
Mecha anime meet Star Wars

>>725639218
Reminder that the Zero games are the ones zoomers like the most you idiot

>>725639218
Reminder that the Zero games are the ones zoomers like the most you zoomerphobic moron

>>725649254
Idk. That's like half of mecha anime already, and arguably the Star Wars prequels themselves.
There's something specifically cool about Zero

>>725647958
in x4 you use the dash macro button (if you do this in fighting games you're a pussy btw) and just mash it at lightspeed to delete every boss in 4 seconds

There are a few odd gimmicks or nitpicks that get a pass because the main gameplay is good.

>>725607307 (OP)
the first two need a mod to remove weapon exp and they'll be perfect

>>725650064
>t.too shit to beat it

>>725650064
x4 is the easiest x game
why would you do this?

>>725622813
you are supposed to slide down the wall retard
>>725634424
actual down syndrome level reading comprehension

Archie Megaman is underrated.

>>725607307 (OP)
Why he shot Lemon?

>>725654148
Only good till dumb crossover with Sonic

>>725630839
How MMZ 3D gameplay be like?

sorry but i dont kill cyber elves and just collect them for fun because theyre cute

>>725609036
>Only z4 is actually uncontestedly well designed as a game
false, the weather system was retarded and due to it, certain upgrade parts were locked behind easy mode.

I mean what a fucking awful idea, changing the stage just slightly?

Triple Rod, Chain Rod, Tonfas or Hand?

>>725655714
>certain upgrade parts were locked behind easy mode
I don't recall this at all, which upgrade part are you talking about?

>>725655143
DMC but with Robots

>>725657941
or this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LTfHh8g8Ts

>>725657941
Needs more platforming.

>>725655747
tonfa > triple >>> hand >> chain
i prefer the triple rod as a general use weapon, but the super jump from the tonfa feels so good when levels are open enough to accommodate for it
hand always felt like a gimmick, but at least it's functional. chain rod is so fucking finnicky that i only ever pulled it out when the game demanded it, otherwise that shit just rusts in reserve

>>725633454
you now remember that gunvolt wasn't able to move while use the flashfield until fucking conman of all people said that should be changed

>>725658725
inafune was secretly fixing all their games for years
come back con man

>>725659221
Nintendo should get brought MN9 ip

>>725659221
>Inafune was a shadow dev on the zero games
>Igarashi was a shadow dev on the curse of the moon games
Would explain why they're actually good

>>725647958
thats also only possible on bad fighting games.

>>725658587
she needs to be in more games

none of these things itt matter cuz 90% of the kids this game was meant for never got past the bullshit first boss

me included, fuck aztec falcon
piece of shit ruined my childhood

>>725662767
She was in three Zero games, X-Over, and X Dive.

>>725663508
I shit on these games constantly for their retarded level design and screen crunch. Hilariously enough, I'm always told I'm filtered by Aztec even though he's piss easy like every other boss in the series. The only MMZ boss that ever gave me any sort of trouble was that Phoenix boss.

>>725663526
more. games

>>725663831
Did you try fighting him in a less shitty arena? I mean he's one of the few bosses with a difficulty slider.

>>725607307 (OP)
>>Hey guys let's make a Zero game by removing what made Mega Man X feel so great to play!
It has dashing and wall jumping, the only things fun about MMX's gameplay.

For me it's Model H

>>725665804
I usually fight him in the big open room. His patterns are just annoying to deal with.

>>725665854
Mf say this and yet will pick Zero in any X game just because he gets those cool techniques

>>725607546
Which would be great if X5, X6 or X8 themselves felt good to play.

>game punishes you for using its exclusive gimmick and every mechanic of the franchise

I mean it's ok if you feel proud for beating these games but don't pretend this was a good choice.

>>725613219
heh

>>725609584
it's the same idea as a character action game docking your rank for using items. if you're truly skilled at the game you won't need to use any elves at all because you don't be taking damage or falling into pits, so the rank reflects this

>>725639218
>these 2000 era gba games full of flaws are grand design masterpieces compared to the handholding babby shit you fags love
No one said otherwise?

to summarize this thread for anyone entering. first off ignore op they are a shitter

>>725609291
this anon has the correct series order, this upsets 3fags because 3 is the easiest one and they want to cling to their easy, but still fun, entry. 2 has the best stages, bosses, story, and unlocks and as someone who loves all four of them I can't understand how other fans can't put their easy game lust aside in order to reach the same conclusion

>>725609584
it is as this anon explained >>725631149 your score goes down for being a shitter. you don't need to be carried out of pits or stop time or have more health if you aren't a shitter. just literally try to stop being a shitter. it isn't even a gotcha! mechanic since the intro cutscene of 1 shows passy dying when used. you aren't supposed to kill the cute little elves. the game punishes you for being an asshole and wasting lives because you can't get good.

>>725613457
imagine this, you have to slow down sometimes and watch out for the hazards and enemies. you don't earn the right to play the game at sanic speeds until you know the game like the good old games of old. there is not a single instance of a blind jump or impossible enemy ambush in the zero series. they are the most mechanically refined the megaman series ever got to be. this isn't a flaw in the game it's a flaw with your zoomer mentality

>>725635139
no one else in this thread will get this, but you are a based genuine oldfag

oh and one last thing, ahem, gen x boomers will never be able to understand that real motherfuckers prefer the zero series to x, because the x series has 2 good games [1 and 2] while the zero series has four better ones and a complete story arc. have a good one anons.

>>725667643
>this anon has the correct series order, this upsets 3fags because 3 is the easiest one and they want to cling to their easy, but still fun, entry. 2 has the best stages, bosses, story, and unlocks and as someone who loves all four of them I can't understand how other fans can't put their easy game lust aside in order to reach the same conclusion
To be fair I can understand that some people were miffed with Zero 2 recycling 3 bosses from Zero 1 for their 8 bosses and Zero 3 did refine the combat from Zero 2 by adding more viable combat routes to exploit before triggering enemy I Frames but like you I play Megaman more for the platforming than the boss fights, the stages of Z2 really do stand out more than those from other entries with really fun and memorable setpieces that rarely overstay their welcome. So ultimately I accept anyone that has either Zero 2 or Zero 3 as their preferred one but I'll cut anyone that suggests that Zero 3 had a better OST than Zero 2.

>>725667643
I mean isn't like I don't get the Cyber Elf thing at its core it is just that it feels like by the point you grinded to get to them and all, you might not want to use them anymore, I will not pretend the WHOLE game is bad just because this side feature wasn't up to my taste

>>725668049
>combat routes
Meant to say combo routes. Just look at how many more got added from Z2 to Z3.
https://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Hit_priority#Mega_Man_Zero_2

>>725619790
Retard.

All four Mega Man Zeros were fucking aids to 100%. Especially Z1. Holy shit I hate whoever came up with the Jackson unlock requirement.

>>725669856
Not as bad as getting all the gay ass mini games in Z3 desu.

>>725655714
>>725655842
No idea what he means either. Ex skills are all in hard mode stages.

i now realized the zero series killed the x series. mother fuckers.

>>725666432
its just items m8 people ignore those in ninja gaiden and DMC too if they want to score.

>>725670224
X killed itself with 5, 6, 7 and 8.

Aile.

>>725668049
Powdery snow mogs. Cannon ball never clicked with me as much as some themes but Omegas menacing theme is also good. Break out is wonderful as departure to me if not better. Nothing can touch 4 for ost though. 3 also has red.

>>725668771
It was a half baked cut feature repurposed as upgrades. They where meant for ciel to use as her techno spellcraft

>>725670573
For me it's Ice Brain.

>>725632331
The creatures that make these threads unironically got filtered by the difficulty.

Post tracks you have seared into your brain.
https://youtu.be/B-YL7Lxv1tQ

it's neat how well each game's neo arcadia track describes that game's neo arcadia

Would have liked the cyber elf system more if the game difficulty was balanced around their actual use being required to not have the game feel like it's on Ultra-Hard.

The story is shit, the new art style is shit, and the way it fucks up existing mechanics is stupid, but at the end of the day they’re still decent games. All of them are about a 6 except for the first which is a 5

>>725631212
>The jump spin slash that Zero could do by default in the X games
Isn't that earned from bosses? Not locked behind rank, but still not part of your base kit.

>>725674762
In Z1 you get it from leveling up the Z-Blade. I can't remember about the other entries.

>>725674762
You're probably thinking of this move:

>>725674762
You're probably thinking of this move:

Have the games aged well at all to be worth grabbing the collection instead of emulating? I played the X Collection a few years ago, and most of them held up rather well, other than X3/X6 feeling like half-finished products.....and I'm just letting the 3d entries slide since those got experimental as hell.

>>725667643
thanks for validating my opinion dude. I played the games in this order too originally as well. Going from 2 to 1 you really notice the lack of a cohesive system (they wanted you to explore the world and have missions, didnt make sense). The weapon leveling is even clunkier than 2 and triple rod is a joke, not to mention grindy cyber elf system. Though exploring levels outside of missions to find elves WAS a cool concept.
From 2 to 3 it's just babymode cyberzone shit and the ugly green facade was atrocious to me even though it makes sense with the whole green matrix digital aesthetic. And they didn't really invent anything new. Recoil rod is also fucking cool and so is Omega.
4 had the kino ending, that's all it had going for it.

>>725627832
X7 is the pinnacle of the series. Don't bother with the rest.

>>725631212
>>725674762
spin isn't part of zero's basic set in any X game, nor is it an EX skill in any zero game

>>725670224
Con man wanted the X series to be about Zero from the start

>>725670224
how so, by being better games?
X only had 2 good games, and one was a remake of the other

>>725676619
nta but inafune was rather clear he wanted to drop X after 5 to work on zero series.
And 6...
and ...

I hate that I like the aesthetic of the Zero series more than I do X.

>>725670484
I like Aile. She delivers my packages three days early.

>>725679136
Both styles are great
But it's certainly easy to like the Zero art because so much of the official art is going for aesthetics, generally speaking.
X art is aiming for superhero comic book/manga, super sentai, etc.
I wonder if we'll ever see a return of that kind of thing

>>725679136
I don't know how because the Zero aesthetic looks like something akin to cheap Dollar General action figure toys.

>>725680609
>>725680654
>the duality of /v/

>>725613457
>Literally the best theme in the whole game
>Ships section isn't that long either
>Boss fight is literally Metal Gear levels of vengeance because you fight the brother of the red beetle from the first game who also fucking LANDS in the ship you're escaping in the middle of a thunderstorm
You cocksuckers choose the wrong place to be noobs you know that?

>>725680825
I never liked it and I don't think I ever will. I do however love Leviathan and I acknowledge that her beauty would not work in the X series style.

>>725614554
I recommend X3 Zero Project, it literally makes the game better with a fully playable Zero and you can switch both characters whenever you want to do it, be it on the map screen or in the middle of a level, it's great. Also it has new game+ and you retain all you collected.

>>725629725
This nigga can't Dante Must Die

>>725609291
2 would be perfect if it didn't have leveling and if it had skippable cutscenes.

>>725613457
I forgot which game it was(I think it was either 3 or one of the ZX games), but there was a enemy, you thought was the platform by the way it was designed after blind jumping, just camping on the edge of a mountain that knocked you into a pit. It pissed me off so much I stopped playing it for 2 days and played Sonic Battle instead on the DS.

>>725682296
Agreed. For the flaws to be so minute, the game is certainly excellent.

>>725682736
>For the flaws to be so minute
Temple. Of. Flame.

>>725683105
Skill issue unironically

>>725683223
>skeeeel issue just wait an hour for the walls to spawn bombs every 5 steps
This game has a skill issue being a Megaman game.

>>725683634
I don't think you've ever played a megaman game if that's your gripe

>>725683725
Yes, I don't think I've ever played a game series known for its fast paced action platforming if my gripe is a Megaman game with elements that are entirely the opposite.

>>725683931
noooo every level isnt the same hallway :((((
I guess you must've burst a blood vessel when you did the stage of the guy you just posted.
Most of "Megaman" isn't even fast paced idk what games u are playing desu

>>725684061
The Zero series isn't most of "Megaman".

>>725684245
>never played zero 1 where there are always things in your way and forcing you to wait
sorry to hear that you both havent played Zero nor Megaman games

>>725684353
I don't think you've played anything outside of the Zero series.

>>725684517
im sorry speedtranny but time-attacks and hallway simulators arent in the genes of Megaman. At heart it is a platformer. I concede that zero 3 and 4 love long stretches punctuated by a couple of enemies, but 1/2 are closer to the core design and holdovers from X (which even then was becoming speedslop by X2.) And, since we're talking 2, the sequel games are irrelevant.
cue some autistic mumbling about zero having a timer on mission details thus validating its existence and thus design as a time-attack

>>725676349
Slash grizzly.

>>725684996
>im sorry speedtranny but time-attacks and hallway simulators arent in the genes of Megaman.
>What is fucking Z-Chaser

>>725685290
intellectually dishonest to refer to a mode added 20 years later to re-releases. good night tranny

>>725685459
Good night. Enjoy your dreams where the Zero series never scored your rank via how fast you've completed the stage.

>>725655747
I never got the chance to play 2 so I choose Tonfas

>>725667643
>gives you a collectable
>punishes you for using it
Retarded fucking game, no wonder the series is dead.

>>725670690
Now this is a cool thing, techno spellcraft should've been the direction they took with Zero. THAT would've been cool

>>725676349
>X6 after his double jump
>CM when he uses soul saber

>>725683931
Aztek Falcon filtered way more people than Harpuia

>>725686984
You can beat the games without EX Skills, they're auxiliary options for players that master the games. You're not supposed to do a first time playthrough and totally ignore Cyber Elves, you're essentially creating your own Hard Mode by doing that.

>>725687393
Yeah I don't know why the most brain dead hug the wall boss filtered so many people when the X series should've prepared you for that with Chill Penguin.

>>725613457
>>725637394
>>725681208
Its not his footage, it's a gif from a lets play demonstrating the issue that I made a decade ago, https://lparchive.org/Mega-Man-Zero-2/Update%2009/
In which I specifically note it's my favorite stage in the game for the atmosphere and plot significance despite the obvious problems

>>725615003
The enemies and stages are tricky but Zero is so agile everything feels fair and managable. The momentum carrying between melee attacks makes them feel much better to use than in the x games.

Best Zero stage?

>>725679136
X series can look a bit goofy with the big generic cartoon eyes on all the robots, Zero's orb tits, generic lightsabers and the bulky character designs. I still like the look of Megaman X but I think Zero series has the superior aesthetic overall.

>>725689243
>big generic cartoon eyes
Have you seen the humanoids in the Zero series?

>>725689595
Shut the fuck up, how about that?

>>725689595
>humanoids

>>725689738
Cry more bitch.
>>725689802
Fine, aliens. Big heads and everything.

Simply put the Zero artstyle is for homosexuals

>>725691601
Based.

>>725691601
what an odd thing to say for an artist that made lolicon

>>725691754
what's a loli but a boy without a dick.

>>725667221
And that's always stupid.
>Hey, here's a whole bunch of cool stuff we put into the game. DON'T EVER USE IT!
If you're going to punish a player for using a game mechanic, then it shouldn't even be included in the game to begin with.

>>725613219
They are the most average megaman games, yes all of them

sex with alie

>>725629725
Any game which grades you is already losing major points. It makes a game, which is supposed to be fun, feel like school. It's lame.
Megaman X4 is my favorite. I played that game so much. It was a really hard game, but I reached a point where I was blazing through every level with constant dashing. Loved that game. It never needed to give me a rank/grade to make me want to play it more. It was just a good game.
I also really liked Megaman Legends, for different reasons naturally. In Megaman Legends 2, they made you take a Digger's License test and you had to get certain ranks to pass. It was stupid and lame; made even worse by the fact that there were areas of the game you couldn't access until you beat the license tests. Stupid. Just let me in to explore, I'll sink or swim of my own accord.

>>725693440
This where is the Aile sex or at least leviathan

>>725629725
I don't mind ranking in games, but for the love of fuck don't lock 100% behind it.

>>725650973
What? Bro, what are you talking about?

>>725627372
seriously, as if games don't already fail to convince people to use items enough as is. If anything games should boost your score for using items well, because that's obviously harder for people than hoarding them endlessly.

>>725629725
/v/ as a whole won't but MMZfags will.

>>725693832
>It was a really hard game
>hard game
Shit's easy as fuck because of how linear it is.

>>725694339
X4 is easy as hell. X5 was X4 but with bullshit that made it harder but worse than X4.

>>725694751
Yes. For your first time playing the game, it is certainly a harder Megaman game. Don't even try to tell me that X1 or X2 are harder.

>>725694881
X5 was fine. Not good, fine. It was no worse than X3.
I don't get why any of you bother complaining about X5 when X6 exists. That's the true ass of the 2-d X series.

>>725607307 (OP)
>play MM Zero
>get to the dude you fight on top of a train car, only instead of being horizontally inclined like the fight in X4, it's from the rear, so it's like, totally different now
>given this perspective, there are now pits at both ends of the screen
>figure out that with wall jump, I can successfully fight the boss off-stage and dispatch him pretty easily
>until he dies, and it plays a canned animation of him exploding
>...which takes control away from me and, if over one of said pits at the time, automatically kills me
>drop the game over it
true story.jpg

>>725694970
Harder than X4 yes. You don't even start with a dash in X1.

>>725695123
Because X6 doesn't directly rip 1:1 from X4 like X5 did. Not arguing that it didn't have bullshit.

>>725627372
>>725694612
Eh, in Devil May Cry you do lose score for using items but it doesn't punish you for permanently increasing your health, devil trigger gauge or buying moves AND you can re-do past missions without having to reboot the game or finish it
So it rewards you for mastering the mechanics

>>725694970
X4 was my first Megaman game and close to the hardest time I ever had with one since I started from scratch, but on the whole it's probably THE easiest X game. The level designs emphasize flow over complexity and the weaknesses are pathetically trivializing if all you want to do is see the credits screen. Sigma's "hard" mostly because he's a sheer gauntlet with a few patterns that actually punish you if you aren't paying attention, and some of the bosses like Mushroom and Peacock can be an actual fight if you're avoiding weaknesses. Full tilt though, X4's a very easy game to breeze through if you've ever played a Megaman game or two before.

>>725696574
Seriously? You find them in the 1st stage you're meant to select. You can't miss them, then you have the dash. Terrible argument.
>>725697243
Question for you. How did you play X4? I ask because I have noticed changes on the Megaman X Collection that things easier. Most notable was Slash Beast. On the PS1, he'd roar once then quickly launch into his attack. In the collection however, he'd just stand there and roar 4 or 5 times in a row. It turned one of the best fights in the game into an absolute joke. Pissed me off so much.

the zero games is just better than most of the X games imo
like I remember playing the X games and while there is a sense of progression in your kit, the game just keeps getting easier and you barely remember stage quirks and boss movesets because you usually would clear stages in one go

the zero games have a flawed sytem with the cyber elves and rank but that made it so you are effectively handicapped the whole game and can even learn EX skills if you excel. If you wanted an easier time you can just use elves.
And slashing and charging your saber and using nothing else to zip zap through a stage and the boss while improving your runs never gets old

The plot should have remained simple

>Redesign Zero completely and give him amnesia so that he acts differently
Genuinely what was the point of making a series about Zero if you're just gonna make an OC using the same name anyway?

>>725697871
>you're meant to select
You wouldn't know which one is the one you're meant to.

>>725699208
>flip X and Zero fights
>X because Iris and Colonel were made with him as the basis as an original reploid but split up because contradiction
>Zero because Double's maverick and destruction talk

>>725689595
Yeah and it looks fine because they're humanoids. It looks goofy on the animal-shaped big Maverick bosses but only Mega Man X does that. Even the most generic disposable humanoid mook in MMZ invokes a greater sense of menace with its visual design than any of the MMX Mavericks as a result. Not strictly a flaw on MMX's part because it's going for a different vibe than the Zero series, but I prefer the Zero series' visuals because of this.

>>725700117
Don't act like most players didn't just start on Chill Penguin's stage.

So is everyone in the Zero series wearing black leotards under their clothes, or is that just their synthetic skin?

>>725614790
>>725617747
MMX8 is the only Mega Man which gets the weight right as the characters drop like they were made of, well... metal

>>725699208
Megaman Zero already had a simple plot. It got even simpler with the manga and everybody hated it.

>>725701131
They're body suits. Both Leviathan and Ciel take them off in X Dive for their alts.

Were there ever design docs for the original Zero kicking around? Game felt like it was originally being planned for something else given that the majority of the map is actually connected to one another, allowing free traversal outside of missions like ZX later came back to letting you do.

>>725701590
I wouldn't consider anything in XDive as canon. Also why the fuck did I put 50 hours into XDive offline, it's such a mindless game.

>>725701131
>>725701590
?

>>725701746
I'd consider it canon to an extent since Capcom does.

>>725701131
The skin thing is ZX/A only since I doubt Capcom will retcon that part of Legends

>>725701764
She's human, no?

>>725701952
Yes.

>>725701952
Every human in ZX is a cyborg but yes she is a human.

>>725607307 (OP)
They had a great game they needed to make, and wouldn't be well until they released it. They were well the day it was released.

>>725701746
>why the fuck did I put 50 hours into XDive offline, it's such a mindless game.
It's fun to play as my waifu outside of a minigame in Z3.

>>725700542
>it looks fine
Fuck no it doesn't

>>725643705
>I'm positive! This maverick has acquired powers of the Dark Elf, with the help of, SIGGGGMAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

>>725701131
50/50? Only Classic Legends and X series characters shows full bodysuits ZX/A it's their skin

>>725607307 (OP)
>spinoff of the most popular character
>original setting not limited to the constraints of X
>can have its own story and resolution without having to go back to the status quo like X does
>final showdown is against the original villain of the entire series
Yep, its kino.

>>725701793
What part you consider canon? that they're just games? that they're the flanderized version of themselves? or that the OC donut steel should be consider both canon and the real Mega Man protagonists? As you basically play a cliff notes version of X1 to X5

>>725702679
So kino it sold like absolute garbage... PURE!! SOVLLLLLLLLLLL!!111! HNGGGGGGGUJJN *cums and vomits and shids and fards*

>>725702679
>final showdown is against the original villain of the entire series
Weil wasn't Wily though, he was an entirely separate mad scientist.

>>725702754
I would consider the fact that Alia and Palette's swimsuits both return from the X Collection to X Dive barring Layer who received and entirely new swimsuit all together. That and Capcom places it at the end of the X timeline.

>>725702679
>not limited to the constraints of X
>tries its hardest to tie back to the X series while that continues on with its own stories
I mean if it really went off on its own then sure it'd be kino.

>>725702679
>original setting not limited to the constraints of X
The entire overarching story revolves entirely around X and the history of the Maverick Wars. Are you retarded.

>>725607307 (OP)
Inafune is an overrated hack.

>>725702908
They don't place it at the end of the X timeline, more like something that's involved with the X series. Chronologically, the last X game would be Command Mission even though X8 released after that game.

>>725703034
>the history of the Maverick Wars
They handwave that for their own more destructive war that killed almost the whole population.

>>725702679
Weil wasn't even mentioned until the tail end of Zero 2.

>>725703232
I remember seeing something from the anniversary showing that they did but I can't prove it because I never saved it. Either way, it doesn't really matter in the end anyway.

>>725702679
>it's a reskinned version of the classic villain but somehow more of a hack that even dr. Cain
>it was so cheap it actually had a shit ton of callbacks to X
>sequel doesn't only show that it didn't have a resolution, but doubled down on referencing X and classic even harder
>haven't played the game
LMAO

>>725702242
I mostly just played as Zero unless I needed another character to grab the stupid collectible things in a level, and then moved onto Omega from there when A-rank stopped being good enough for some of the events.

>>725701590
I'm conflicted, I hated X Dive for being a fucking gacha but I liked all the new art, Ciel is pure sex

>>725703432
No they don't. The Elf Wars were just an extension of the Maverick Wars.

>>725702679
What an embarrassing post

>>725702789
Sucks the series never sold well beyond the first one. Doesn't help that Battle Network was competing for sales within the same general timeframe.

>>725703631
Maverick wars were done when the mother elf got made and got used to stop mavericks. Elf wars started because Weil decided to use the cure as the new virus. They're separate things. The elf wars were just far more destructive.

>>725703621
X Dive is fine as far as gachas went. They had no idea what they were doing with the rates so you could get anybody you wanted anyway if you saved up enough.

>>725704068
Why did it die? Is Megaman really that niche? I guess the story was pretty mediocre

>>725704147
I have no idea. I guess it was doing poorly internally or something? You'd have to ask someone more in the know than I.

>>725704147
>>725704316
Capcom just decided to stop though it probably had to do with the Taiwan shit going on at the time.

>>725704481
Apparently there was some hang ups back stage which lead to some lazy later releases like getting two Ailes.

>>725704147
The same story that has been told on for like, what? a decade now? Despite doing good numbers it was not making the same money as Monhun/RE/SF and Devil May Cry at that time
One or two veteran Mega Man devs end up quitting over Capcom's greed and incompetence after the game shutted down, is not like it had a long shelf life considering that PvP was basically:
>balance? what's balance lmao?
I-frames, damage reducing shield, invincibility shield, x5 damage buffs plus i-frame screen nukes that would stun you, prevent you from using skills, debuff your attack and defense alongside adding dot, then there was weapons that could ignore terrain with quick homing bullets

>>725607307 (OP)
>Another rockman zero hate thread
Posted it again award

>>725704554
>younger Aile
>older Aile
Not really a problem.

>>725705461
Younger Aile mogs older Aile tho

>>725704871
Ironically X Dive was doing better as a gacha than the DMC and SF gachas were.

>>725701516
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ80PbfYwtU
BASED AS FUCK

>>725702679
Which is yet another fucking issue I have: VEIL ISN'T WILLY. At first I cried as a kid thinking that this was the final form of Willy all these fucking years but then we learn that just like the Dark Elf incident, Veil is another fucking offscreen big plot point that happened but we are meant to be shocked when we are told about it.

>>725670224
X committed suicide.

X was the brilliant young star everyone loved, but who could never seem to replicate his earliest successes. Eventually the constant frustration and disappointment drove him to hard drugs and other degeneracy and he was found dead of overdose in a hotel room a few years after everyone stopped caring about him.

>>725697871
>How did you play X4?
On the PS1, back in the late 90s.

*clink*

>>725708706
Leave it to a series called Megaman to be gay as fuck.

>>725708916
tbf for the longest time it was all guys having any major role in the game. You didn't start seeing girls until the 90s

>>725709209
The first female character in Mega Man is Roll followed by Kalinka. The thing is that female characters don't have much roles and the thing is this, the female robots or female super humans have capabilities to not be as trash as actual human females since these robot super humans took over the Earth. Even then I'm not convinced the characters are any good. I fucking hate Retard Annoying Bitch Tron Bonne the most overrated whore in the Mega Man franchise. I hate that annoying stupid character. And Roll Casket is also shitty. And I don't give a damn about that stupid red haired bitch from Mega Man Battle Network. Mega Man's female characters are junk. I think the only one I like is Berkana from Mega Man Xtreme 2.

Even Castlevania which is fujo central has superior vaginas.

>>725710359
Tron's a cute tsundere and Legends is the kind of series that is carried by its characters and voice acting, not at all surprising that she has a lot of fans.

>>725710359
Not a fan of Leviathan? Fine.

>>725708916
to be fair its mostly the fanart, the games cant really control that

>>725609036
>>725610208
>>725612542
>>725613457
All 4 games suck ass

>>725619790
Shut up contrarian faggot, you gain nothin in life other then being a stupid little kid.

>>725710560
Maybe that's why I hate her. I never liked blatant hollow archetypes such as tsundere or yandere or whatever. I've had my fill of that. And tsundere should just be called Annoying Bitch. I really wanted Mega Man Volnutt to go "Oh you hate me and want to kill me and my friends?" And while misunderstanding Tron's feelings he kills her for real since she's also a criminal. Would be hilarious to see Tron Bonne using her final moments of life realizing that acting like a crazy bipolar tsundere bitch put her on route to her own death and again she's a freaking criminal as well.

Anyway Mega Man had the potential to truly make better female character in-universe but never did it. I can't believe women are good fighters like Chun Li or that they are great warriors like in Final Fantasy but I can believe that a robot chick is indeed programmed to be intelligent and powerful. But Mega Man never capitalized on that.

remember to feed and water your x