Thread 57889910

>>57889910 (OP)
>plass 2 is such a dead on arrival game that this is the kind of discussion the community is having
gen 10 can’t come any sooner

>>57889915
That’s YouTube sweaty

>>57889910 (OP)
okay but every cat pokemon? vs every dog pokemon?

..does this include the 1 billion lions?

>>57889930
No retard

>>57889925
Does it really matter

Every cat pokemon would include Entei, Raikou, and Suicune and Solgaleo, versus the dogs Zamazenta and Zacian. I'm going with cats.

>>57889910 (OP)
Mew is cat, the legendary beasts are cats.
How can dogmons compete?

>>57889953
Yes

If you had felines vs canines in the real world felines would win easily

>>57889960
>Zamazenta and Zacian
If wolves count as dogs then the cats are beyond fucked. Means doggos get Mega Manetric as well.
>>57889964
>how can dogmons compete
See above + Houndstone.

>>57889989
Cats get Incineroar, Weavile, Raging Bolt and Walking Wake

>>57890020
and chien-pao and duskmane necrozma

What qualifies as a cat Pokémon and what qualifies as a dog Pokémon? Are tiger Pokémon cats? Are wolves? Are the Eeveelutions cats or dogs?

>>57890028
Eeveelutions are both.

>>57890020
>felines get a weasel and 2 dinosaurs
Haha no.

>>57890028
>>57890033
Eevee/lutions are foxes, so they would be dog if foxes count towards either one. Same with Ninetails and Zoroark.

>>57890053
Wrong. Eeveelutions are a mix of cat, fox, and dog according to their designer, but not meant to be any particular animal. They shouldn't count at all.

>>57890051
Sneasel and Weavile are cat weasels. They even appeared under the care of a cat lady in the anime. Raging Bolt arguably still retains cat characteristics.

>>57890053
Not really, they're a mix. Maybe you could argue that some Eeveelutions look more or less like dogs or foxes or whatever, but with Espeon, for example, it's absolutely impossible for you to deny that it looks like a cat.

>>57889910 (OP)
Where does she fit in?

>>57889960
>the dogs Zamazenta and Zacian.
>Zacian
The cats are cooked

>>57890059
In that case the Legendary Beasts don't count either as they are admitted by designer hybrid animals as well. Which subsequently means their Paradoxes dont count twice over.

>>57890128
>she
cute cow

>>57890264
Designer said the base animals were big cats. You can pretend she muddled up the designs a lá Eevee and the 'Lutions but that's just ignoring the reality of the situation (cheetahs have similar legs and paws to dogs, due to evolution adapting their bodies for running - claws stopped retracing to give them more purchase on the savannah chasing prey). Really oughta start paying attention to the natural world, it's where they pull their inspiration for their designs from.

>>57890319
>You can pretend she muddled up the designs
>interview literally says she muddled the designs to look like either or
Read your own pictures before posting them toxozombie.

Makes me realize that we don't have a single legendary fox Pokemon

>>57890027
If cats get Dusk Mane then dogs get Zygarde.
Honestly Dusk Mane is kinda tricky. It's a Parasect situation where you have a Pokemon and its parasite as one Pokemon, but Parasect never clarifies who exactly is in control. DM clearly is the Necrozma is control.

>>57890367
> but Parasect never clarifies who exactly is in control.
It has been explicitly stated to be the mushroom since Gen 1.
> A host-parasite pair in which the parasite mushroom has taken over the host bug. Prefers damp places.

>>57890132
>Duskmane Necrozma eats the pup for lunch and uses the sword as a toothpick

>>57890373
In that case Zygarde definitely counts as a dog.

>every dogmon vs a team with fucking SKITTY
Dogs instantly lose

>>57890385
Only the 10% dog form, yes. Not the other forms.

According to Google, Raikou comes up when you search "cat pokemon" and Entei shows up when you search "dog pokemon". Thought that was funny

>>57890396
10% still gets Power Construct. Nobody said abilities that change your form were off the table.

>>57890128
Bai Ze, mythological hybrid animal. Sits this one out.

>>57890338
>"tiger-like" silhouette
>"leopard-like" silhouette
>like a lion
>no examples of what type of canid animal they could be
They're based on cats, not your "Ambiguous slopster" zoomcanon cope.
Get fucked Dogfag.

>>57890429
>They're based on cats
And Hydreigon is a tank yes we know, betafaggot.

>>57890391
DelcattyGOD, I kneel...

>>57889925
*whistle*
https://x.com/AlphaAreus1/status/1931638195533340913

>>57890437
Nice false equivalency, dumbo.

If you count any of the Johto beasts, do their Paradox forms count as well?

>>57890437
>betafaggot
They're the ones pushing the "they're dogs" though.
I can see what they're arguing for, but it's clear they went for cat-like beasts instead for the final designs.

>>57890479
Gen 9 is schizoshit/xenobladeitis, so no.

>>57890485
English, anon.

>>57890479
theyre dinosaurs

>>57890417
Zygarde is no longer a dog at 100% so it doesnt count anymore (if it ever did since the 100% humanoid form is its true form meaning it was never a dog Pokemon, just mimucing the appearance of one while incomplere).

>>57890461
Where did they get the pic from though :)

>>57890319
>Designer said the base animals were big cats
>started as a lion
>but settled on a silhouette that could look like a dog or cat
It's muddled too. If you only want to count the initial idea, then Entei is neither cat nor dog, its a rock with volcanic smoke.

>>57890063
Liko's bag makes it look like she has a nice rack

>>57890520
If any dog or cat pokemon got the move Transform and it transformed into the other, would it switch sides as well?
What counts, current form, or original form?

>>57890471
Look anon just because you will never be a woman no matter how much you try doesnt mean everything is stuck as what it starts as.

>>57889910 (OP)
1 lion

>>57890598
vs 1 billion of each pokemon. Who wins?

>>57890602
The gorilla

>>57890587
Mew gets transform and all of the actual Cat™ Pokemon can call it with Assist so this gets pretty messy quick.

>>57890479
>>57890490
They're dinosaurs that resemble the legendary beasts. Picrel isnt a cat just because it looks like one.

>>57889960
Solgaleo is fucking shit. Meanwhile dogs have goddamn Zacian.

>>57890609
*The bear

>>57889910 (OP)
Fags seem to forget THE KING would absolutely dominate in a team brawl, and he's not alone, male Meowtisc is an amazing support trickster with Prankster that can easily set screens and further debuff dog fags with a dozen moves. But it DOESN'T end there, almost every single cat Pokemon gets access to Fake Out, meanwhile dogmons are fucked in that department. Entei comes in with Eruption and CHADroar's Flare Blitz still hits like a damn truck, WHERE'S YOUR ZACIAN NOW?! BEATEN THE FUCK OUT! THE GAME WAS OVER BEFORE IT EVEN BEGAN DOG FAGS!

Design wise cats win hands down

>>57889960
>Every cat pokemon would include [pokemon that are clearly not cats]

>>57889910 (OP)
Horse mons>bears>dogs>cats>gorillas

>>57890429
They were pushed towards more-cat like designs because the beta versions were literally dogs with funky hairdos. The final version can be interpreted as either, as Saito states in your own screenshot.

>>57890910
The beasts and Solgaleo are cats retard

>>57890319
Muneo is a guy, you dumbshit

>>57890937
>The beasts are [not beasts]

>>57890942
They're still beasts you genuine retard. They just take inspiration from big cats. Lion is called the king of beasts.

>>57890942
See>>57890429

>Started looking up the list of feline Pokemon to get a better grasp on things
>Saw two posts of fags trying to argue Giratina was a cat
What?

>>57890391
>Ban evading
Deltranny it is only a 3 day ban. Stop crying and just take the L.

>>57890952
No dumber than people arguing Raikou is a dog

>>57890948
>>57890951
>I didn't want it to simply be an animal. So I settled on a silhouette that could look like a dog or a cat. [...]Or rather, I aimed for them to be like distinguished gods!

>>57890956
No I'm pretty sure it's a lot dumber, which is saying a lot.

>>57890963
A silhouette, yes. But if you look at the actual Pokemon they're clearly cats as the interview states.

>>57890963
So you're going to ignore the entire first part

>>57890920
>literally have an entire type dedicated to you
>still wouldn't be the best "All of this animal" team
Bugsisters... not like this... *u-turns off a bridge*

>>57890956
Good point, I'm just trying to understand how the fuck some fags looked at Giratina and went-
>Yeah, this is no doubt a cat Pokemon
>>57890963
And they very clearly resemble felines way more, only Suicune has traits that look more canine like, but the body plan is obviously still leopard like, albeit it is also the most chimeric of the three beasts, with it also having kirin inspirations.
You can just take a quick glance at Entei and Raikou and immediately tell they were based on a lion and tiger respectively.

>>57890969
They are clearly not cats. They can be interpreted as either, word for word what the designer intended. Many people see dogs. Others see cats.
>>57890977
It's not very relevant when the creator himself is saying he ultimately went for more ambiguous designs, less cat or dog more nature spirit.

>>57890990
>they are clearly not cats
You've never seen a big cat in your life

Okay, Zacian is tough and all, but you cannot in sane mind pretend Mewtwo wouldn't also wreck house, especially with having some of the best teammates possible in the cat side and a skillset adaptable to any battle.

>>57891008
So which natural reserve, zoo or sanctuary do you work at?

>>57891018
Your mom's house

>>57891020
>impotently resorts to y-your mom jokes
Damn that was easy

>>57890990
Word for word it says they are inspired by big cats but can have a generic SILHOUETTE. But just keep clapping your hands over your ears, that ought to be working out for you in life.

>>57891029
You asked sweaty

>>57891030
Word for word the creator says he intended them not to be just cats or dogs or even animals at all, but rather gods or nature spirits.

>>57891037
Gods and spirits can be based on animals. In fact, most of them are.

>>57891029
*importantly

>>57891044
And the johto are just that, beasts. A mix of dog and cat and lion and wolf and quilin.

So many fucking Dark-types on the cat side. Liepard, Incineroar, Meowscarada, Luxray, Alolan-Persian, Chien-Pao. Zamazenta would have a field day.

>>57891055
There's no wolf anywhere in there you stupid dogfucker

>>57891060
Suicune has a lupine snout and body plan

>>57890027
Chien-Pao, the weasel? Do dogs get the bearmons too?

>>57891018
I lived in South America for quite a few years due to work and while I can't say I had too many experiences with them, jaguars or onças and the myths surrounding them sometimes sound 101 for like the kind of thing Suicune does, like roaming large areas on it's own and acting as a nature spirit that in a few stories acts a purifier of water, obviously Suicune is more so based on a leopard as established, but jaguars are extremely atuned to living near water and they practically rule rivers, even going so far as hunting caimans on their own while swimming. I very much could see some encounters I had with onças in Mato Grosso as something that could translate to an encounter with a Suicune, albeit obviously with Suicune being more majestic.
>>57891057
>Meowstic, Mewtwo and Mew are on the cat side
>Most catmons get Fake Out as well

>>57891067
Chien Pao is a cat.

>>57890748
Houndoom flashfire rapes it

>>57891065
Too bad the designer doesn't mention wolves even once. It's a leopard with artistic freedom.

>>57891071
It’s a weasel nigga look at it move

>>57891082
Literally every wiki calls it a feline. It's just a sabertooth with a long body.

>>57891084
You mean the simpson swellow wiki? Reputable source.

>>57891079
He does mention dogs though. And ultimately he says he didn't want him to be just that.

>>57891067
Chien-Pao is literally a snow leopard nigger, even down to the noodle body, which snow leopards are known to have.

>>57891082
>The name is a direct reading of the Chinese phrase " Baojian ," which literally means "leopard sword."

Pokedex entry mentions Entei barking. Cats don't bark.

>>57891094
Mistranslation from roaring, which the beasts also are mentioned to do. Dogs don't roar. Also, all the Pokemon ""barked"" in HGSS

>>57891094
Dogs don't have retractable claws and Entei does.

>>57891099
And they mistranslated this all the way up to BW? It's clear Entei can bark as well as roar

>>57891094
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wZsZZ9QX5c4
Ironically enough they can, some very autistic cats that were raised by dogs or spend way too much time around dogs do it.

>>57891111
That's why they changed it retard.

>>57891111
Gen 5 was the first time TPCi localised the games and NoA had deliberately meddled with localisation translations (translating "Hop" as "Splash" leading to every rabbitmon learning "Splash" for no apparent reason) up to Gen 4, so yes.

>>57891110
Foxes do

>>57891127
>e-entei is a fox now!!

>>57891154
There are canids with retractable claws, cats that bark, and felids that cannot roar at all

>>57890940
No, she's not. 'Else Dr. Lava would have called him a man when he posted this art she'd did. Unlike you, Tajiri wasn't a shut-in sperg, incapable of talking to girls, hence why he'd hired her to help with development of creatures.

>>57891160
And you fail to make a point.

>>57891168
Entei is neither a dog or a cat

>>57891161
>Twitter troon screencap
He's a guy

>>57891084
Even the wiki says it’s based on some japanese weasel

>>57891178
See >>57891091

>>57891175
>gender political horseshit because she lost an internet argument
Fuck off back to tiktok kid.

>>57891171
You can keep arguing that but nobody is going to agree with you

>>57891195
Saito is literally a male name you fucking retard

Before any fag brings it up, because given how autistic the discussion has been so far it was bound to maybe come up at some point, hyenas are more closely related to cats than dogs, but they're part of their own group of carnivores, so they don't count as being in the dog side.

Japs seem to think
>cats, weasels, and mongooses are all the same thing
>dogs, wolves, foxes, and hyenas are all the same thing
>apes and monkeys
>rabbits and mice/rodents
List goes on really

>>57891203
And Artemis a female's, but there's been men called that too.
It's almost as if naimng conventions are NOT concrete established set in stone, but subjected to the whims of humanity (else there wouldn't be so many fucking chav girls running around named after the brand of wine their mother guzzled while carrying them).

>>57891213
Japs also seem to think Trubbish is a catmon for whatever reason.

>>57891216
Show me a picture of the guy. Every major wiki refers to him as male.

>>57891217
I've seen westerners argue its a bear cub so Trubbish isn't safe from retardation anywhere.

>>57891197
You don't need to. It's what the designer intended so it doesn't matter what you see or believe.

>>57891238
If its what the designer intended he wouldn't have mentioned the inspiration behind lions at all.

>>57891251
He assumed people reading his interview would have basic reading comprehension

>>57891258
Yeah it's a shame you don't.

>>57891264
Read the interview again.

>>57891267
Don't need to.

>>57891291
Clearly you do

>>57891293
>explicitly states they were inspired by cats
No, clearly you do.

>>57891301
Just ignore him, he's either a troll or an obsessed seething dogfucker. This argument has gone on too long when we have an actual answer.

>>57891301
>explicitly states the creator didn't want it to be just an animal and instead the main design path is that of a nature spirit or a distinguished god
Diminishing Entei to a cat goes against the designers' wishes

>>57890963
Even if you ignore Entei and Suicune, Raikou is obviously a sabertooth tiger

>>57889910 (OP)
zacian is on team dog lol, dog team mogs hard

>>57890128
this is a sphynx

>>57891073
>>57891449
WE'LL SEE ABOUT THAT DOGFAGS!

>>57889960
>forgetting my bro Okidogi

>>57889910 (OP)
This is a very interesting match-up. It really depends a lot on exactly which species of Pokémon there are and on what team.

>>57889989
Mega Evolutions would not be allowed as those require a human. All that was said was cat Pokémon VS dog Pokémon. For that matter, without humans they are Wild Pokémon, that means all the Pokémon have other restrictions too like mostly only having Level Up Moves for their Moves.

>>57890033
Interesting. So we would get one of each of them for both teams?

>>57890367
I can agree with this logic. Necrozma's fusions with Solgaleo/Lunala are considered Forms of Necrozma and specifically with Necrozma in control.

>>57890417
But only the 10% Form of Zygarde is a dog. Thus if Zygarde is allowed, then it can't transform to its other Forms.

>>57889960
>suicune
>cat

>>57891618
>>57890319

>>57891618
Newfag

>>57891621
>draw a dog
>call it a cat

Hey guys! can you please rate this Cat Pokemon design I made for my romhack!!

>>57891670
>>57891638
Samefag

>>57891675
Nigger

>>57891311
This. Don't give dogfags the (You)s.

>>57891678
Nice edit

>>57890634
Solgaleo when possessed by Necrozma checks the shit out of knifepup and destroys it with a Sunsteel Strike or Earthquake. Kek at this cope.

>>57891694
Nice edit

>>57891701
>anon is schizoposting to to non existing posts
wew

>>57891710
Archive exists sweaty

>>57891710
>to to

>>57891696
>dude it’s better because it’s a check lmao
This just means Necrozma falls over if it’s slightly weakened tho

>>57891213
>mongooses
A colloquialism for mongooses in Japan is ‘cat ferret’ which is why Zangoose is designed as a cat + ferret hybrid and has that designation in the dex.

>>57889910 (OP)
every bird mon

>>57890429
entei is basically shisa or komainu just like Arcanine who everyone sees as a dog. and Komainu literally has inu in the name.

>>57891089
>>57891071
Chien pao is a Linsang

>>57890028
Eeveelutions follow the fable of The Birds, the Beasts, & the Bat

>>57891071
Chein Pao is the sword, not the "body" that holds it

>>57892728
>>57892674
See>>57891091

>>57893123
look up what a linsang looks like. that's the exact body proportions and pattern on the polkemon. there's no world where a snow leapard was a greater artistic influence. The sword is an extra embelishment ont eh design and the end result is a linsang with the face of sabretooth cat. Pretty much like Entei essentially being a Tibetan Mastiff with a mask.

>>57891554
>then it can't transform
Then neither can Mew, nor any of its allies using Assist

>>57891696
If transformations arent allowed and humans/other species assistants arent allowed, parasitic fusions arent allowed as Necrozma is not a cat.

>>57893276
Entei is a lion. Creator said so dogfag. And Chien Pao is a leopard from its name. Stop making up bullshit and trying to force it as fact.

>>57893549
Creator said Entei is not an animal

>>57893564
Holy illiteracy

>>57893576
Stop cherrypicking the parts that fit your narrative and actually read the entire thing, retard-kun

>>57893594
Apply this to yourself

Are people really this butthurt over the legendary beasts actually being cats lmao

Least obvious samefag

>>57893602
Apparently so. They've been calleed- incorrectly- the legendary dogs for so long that people just can't cope with the revelation. That and dogfuckers want everything for themselves. Best to just ignore them.

>>57893597
Can you tell me what Saito's closing statement on the matter is?

>thread is literally just retards arguing over entei, raikou, and suicune
So let's discard legendaries then. Who wins?

>>57893611
Can you tell me where it explicitly states that them being distinguished gods doesn't make them based on lions, tigers, and leopards anymore

>>57893616
Houndstone

>>57893619
Stop taking the bait.

>>57893619
Right here

>>57893631
Holy shit you really are retarded. He means he doesn't want it to be a generic lion. So he added the features like the beard and rock motifs to make Entei godlike. It literally says right there the silhouette is still an animal and prior to that he states Entei is "basically a lion"

>>57893636
Muneo Saito went out of his way to make Entei look like either or because he was aiming for a spirit/god-like design

>>57893616
Incineroar

>>57893549
wait till you realize that even in the real world names are frequently non-literal and based entirely on superficial resemblances. Giant pandas aren't pandas, mountain lions aren't even Big Cats, and most birds we call hawks are in fact not hawks.

Entei is just as obviously based on shisa as Arcanine is and it matches up with the Kirin influence on suicune and the Nue influence on Raikou. Chinese guardian lions have always been acknowledged to be dog-like by every culture and sure enough china has a massive breed of dog that supercially resembles lions.

>>57893616
>Cats have two of the best support Pokemon ever made in Incineroar and male Meowstic
>Most dogmons have Intimidate
>Female Meowstic has Competitive
>Mfw fem Meowstic gets a +6 special attack boost by just being there
>Can delete pretty much anything that isn't Houndoom and Mabostiff (Zoroark and Thievul are foxes and Mightyena is as far removed from a canine as it gets, hyenas are more closely related to felines)
>Most every single catmon also gets Fake Out, so dogmons can't even have a first turn in battle outside of Lucario, who has Inner Focus
>Male Meowstic could just click Psychic Terrain (which is still a priority slower than Fake Out, so most dogmons are still stunned) and fem Meowstic which now has a MAX special attack boost thanks to Arcanine, Mabostiff and Stoutland clicks Expanding Force and it's over that easily for everything that isn't Houndoom, which is still flinching thanks to Fake Out and at the mercy of every single catmon
Dogfuckers never stood a chance.

>>57893688
Except the creator specifically said Entei is based on a lion retard. It roars, it has retractable claws, it has a mane.

>>57889964
Arcanine solos

>>57893705
guess what shisa have

>>57893705
Arcanine has all of those and it's still a dog

>>57893688
It's almost like Pokemon can be based on multiple things. Doesn't change the fact its still "basically a lion" in its concept

Your cats, sir

>>57893709
>>57893711
And shisa are not just based on dogs but based on lions. Surprise!

>>57893711
Arcanine doesn't do or have any of those things. It barks. No retractable claws. It has a ruff.

>>57893714
and it ended more inspired by mythological beasts in the end. guardian lion statues can be said to be "basically a lion" but have always also been seen as dogs to the point that the west called the foo dogs and japan called them korean dogs.

What a DOGshit thread

>>57893720
Dex entries specifically mention people being enchanted by its MANE

>>57893702
>Doesn't count foxes despite inarguably being canids
>Counts incineroar despite being a tiger

>>57893720
Learns roar, has a mane

>dinoGODS when they enter the fray with the Galar fossils, most of the grass starters, Genesect, basically all of the Dragon types, the weather trio (which includes Mega Fug as he does NOT need a human), all of the kaijumons, the past Paradox pokemon, and technically Mewtwo
Tuck your tails and hide little ones. The big boys have come out to play.

>>57893754
Fine, I'll let you have this one, you have 4 Pokemon that survive getting melted from existence in a single hit, you still lose regardless.
>>57893795
>The Galarian are chimeric in nature and only one of them can entirely be classified as purely a dinosaur, which would be Dracozolt, which has the upper portion of a Dromeosaur and the lower half of what can be assumed to be a Stegosauridae
>The Arcto portion is based off of a Mosasaur, which weren't dinosaurs and in fact were more closely related to monitor lizards
>The Vish portion is based on a Dunkleosteus which was a Placoderm fish that existed millions of years before the dinosaurs in the Devonian
>"Most of the grass starters"
>3 actually, and despite the obvious Dromeosaur inspirations, it's pretty clear Sceptile and Grovyle are still more largely based on geckos, but sure, I'll be generous and count it
>Genesect is a primitive arthropod modified by technology, not a dinosaur retard, not even part of Chordata
>"Basically all of the Dragon types"
>A palm tree, 2 salamanders, an antlion nymphid, 2 sea horses, a crested lizard, wyrms tha live in apples and are clearly more so based on Squamata, gigantic slugs, bats, a nature spirit, a Diplocaulus, several more members of Squamata, 4 aliens that have literally nothing to do with Sauria as a whole, A BUILDING, BALL, FISH and a bunch of chimeras that do possess some dinosaur features, as well as birds, which did evolve from small Dromeosaurs, which would be 3 Pokemon, 4 of you want to squint and take Reshiram in
>In total there are unquestionably 10 Dragons that are based directly on dinosaurs, 13 to 14 if you want to be extra generous
>Out of 93, only 10 or so Dragon types are actually dinosaurs
>The weather trio
>Kyogre is obviously a whale, Rayquaza's closest comparable match in bodyplan would be a Mexican mole lizard, Groudon is the only one that has been described with "dinosaur-like aspects", so sure, that one I'll let slip
>"Kaijumons"

>>57893795
>(which includes Mega Fug as he does NOT need a human)
You mixed up the lore. Fug needs humans to wish on it to mega. It doesn’t need a mega stone, though, since it has an organ that reacts with meteor particles to replicate one.

>>57893963
>Kaiju is a loosely defined term applied to giant monsters, of which severeal are bugs, bug-like, cephalopods or chimeric in nature and therefore don't count, you said dinosaurs specifically
>Most past Paradoxes are specifically based on speculative evolution and urban legends, very few of which have anything to deal with dinosaurs and many of which could be considered to be other genera of reptiles or even Synapsids, only the Paradox beasts are based directly on dinosaurs
>Mewtwo is literally a genetically modified cat chimera that clearly posseses no reptilian aspects, so no, it does not count
Go back to the playground Timmy and pick up a fucking biology book you fucking moron.

>>57893752
>>57893760
It sounds to me like both Entei and Arcanine should be discounted since they both have cat and dog features. Either that or they're on both sides.

>>57893996
>Arcanine, Entei and possibly the Eeveelutions end up being the spy

>dogfucker
>dogfucker
>dogfucker
>dogfucker
Look buddy if you really want to pretend to be multiple people you should at least try to change your speech patterns a little bit

>>57893971
Pokemon in Legends ZA can Mega Evolve without human intervention

>>57893963
Reshiram is a dog

>>57893702
>dogmons can't even have a first turn in battle outside of Lucario, who has Inner Focus
Your ghost types?

>>57894076
Found the dogfucker

>>57894076
I was calling you dog fags before >>57890748, started using dogfucker after another anon started saying it since it had a better tone.
>>57894103
Houndstone still gets melted, but I entirely forgot about Hisuian Zoroark, which is extremely fast, immune to Fake Out and could actually pose quite a bit of trouble for the meowtism duo.......well we still have Meowscarada and Sucker Punch users on our side at least, they could probably handle the ghostly threat before Psychic Terrain takes effect.

>>57894130
Have fun guessing which one is Zoroark

>Want to side with the cat side of the war since a lot of my favorites are catmons
>Delphox and Zamazenta are two of my favorite Pokemon and got drafted to the dog side
SHIT

>>57891618
Entei is a Lion, Raikou is a Tiger, Suicune is a Cheetah (fast, slender form, diamonds instead of spots)

>>57894249
>Fast
>85 base speed

>>57890063
I feel like the anime writers just wanted an excuse to give her the Sneasel family cause of the pointy ears, since a fisher cat is not a cat and doesn't resemble a cat. The cat lady having a Weavile makes about as much sense as having Zangoose or Linoone.

>>57894375
Sneasel and Weavile have always been considered cats.

>>57894417
Yeah, but I feel like it's wrong just like Trubbish being on there doesn't mean he's a cat just cause he has pointy ears.

It feels more like the visual equivalent of "clever word play" where fan artists and official staff will take something like Lapras and put it alongside turtle Pokemon while saying, "See?! I bet you never thought of seeing Lapras categorized like that before!".

To me, the Sneasel family should firmly stay alongside all the weasels, mongooses, and badgers.

>>57889910 (OP)
Are eevolutions cats or dogs?

>>57894699
Both.

>>57889960
>Raikou, Entei, Suicune, the legendary dogs
>cats

>>57894727
>>57890319

>>57894727
They were never dogs retard. That was a fanmade term.

>>57893963
>>57893979
None of what you said matters given the arguments given for both "cat"mons and """dog"""mons in the thread. What children and the middle aged Japs pandering to them think is what matters. Not you Mr Biologist.
Also if betashit/conceptshit is allowed, in Yellow's beta Mewtwo was a fossilmon.

>as well as birds, which did evolve from small Dromeosaur
Oh yeah, I forgot every bird is a dinosaur too so add Lugia, Ho-oh, Corviknight, Yveltal, etc. to the above list.

>>57894745
And Lugia was meant to be female. Ultimately it doesn't matter.

>>57894929
Not even close to a similar situation.

>>57894427
Badgers and weasels are mustelids. Mongooses are herpestids. Mustelids are caniformia, herpestids are in feliformia.

>>57894929
>calls them dogs
>gets proven wrong
>waaah it doesn't matter!!!

>>57894939
It's exactly the same. Original intention ultimately does not matter in the grand scheme of things. The Johto beasts were generally seen as dogs (I blame Suicune) to the point it seeped into official material as seen in anime and localisations.

>>57894958
The game and anime never called them dogs faggot.

>>57894958
Doesn't change the fact they were wrong. Plenty of the localizations were mistranslated and that doesn't make them right.

>>57894973
The anime depicted them as dogs prior to their resurrection in Generations. They are called Perros Legendarios in the Spanish localisation.

>>57894986
The localization is incorrect and most likely based on the fan name. and they were depicted as dogs in generations because they were referencing their beta designs.

>>57894996
Why the fuck would TPCi reference a leak that was never meant to see the light of day? They were depicted as dogs because that's what most people see them as

>>57894986
>The anime depicted them as dogs prior to their resurrection in Generations
Prior to their resurrection. They were different animals then. They didn't become Entei, Raikou, and Suicune until Ho-Oh revived them. And those are the designs we're talking about.

>>57894996
A fan name is no longer so after it's used in official material. Just like english chose to canonise the term "shiny", the Spanish localisation canonised Legendary Dogs

>>57895002
And like I said those people are wrong.

>>57895014
>spanish anything
>canon
They're the three sacred beasts.

>>57895017
Not necessarily. TPCi can do whatever it wants, just like they ignored Unno's wishes regarding Lugia's gender.

>>57895035
>literal in-game text
>not canon

>>57895039
>literal spanish localization filled with mistakes
>canon
Ok pablo

>>57895044
It's canon to the spanish version. Kieran is 14 in the french version even though his age isn't stated anywhere else. Doesn't mean he is not 14 in the french version.

Kek didn't spics have the move "Slam" translated as "Door Slam" for the longest time?

>people are still arguing over entei, raikou, and suicune
Just shut the fuck up. Don't include them if it's going to induce so much butthurt.

>>57895053
A lot of the moves and other things were mistranslated in Spanish.
>The Spanish translations are outsourced to translation agencies, and there have been inconsistencies in the quality of work done by different agencies.

CAN WE MOVE ON FROM BITCHING ABOUT THE THREE BEASTS NOW PLEASE AND THANK YOU?!
>>57894986
>A misnomer from a language that is heavily associated with low IQ subhumans
>Correct in any way whatsoever
Yeah, no Pablo, that's not how this fucking works. The Spanish version has so much shit that's translated incorrectly that it's almost funny.
>>57894929
Only Shudo, a literal schizo troonoid wanted Lugia to be female, Gamefreak wanted a male counterpart to Ho-oh, which was based on a female only Chinese phoenix, the faggot was so obsessed with shoving the idea of a motherly Lugia into the Ashnime somehow that he convinced the writers later into the Johto anime to add a momma Lugia and her baby as a central part of a story arc.

>>57895057
May as well only include pokemon strictly based on dogs ie canis lupus familiaris, no wolves, foxes, jackals or anything in between, and pokemon based on house cats felis silvestris catus, no panthers, cougars or lynxes.

>>57895083
Well that's what the poll calls for in the first place.

>>57895085
then the dogs win, given that most cat pokemon become something else upon evolving (meowscarada is an iberian lynx, incineroar is a tiger, liepard is a leopard) while dogs tend to stay dogs throughout

>>57895083
And why is that, just because the beasts are too hot a topic for this thread?

>>57895100
The poll says dogs vs cats. Not canids vs felids.

>>57895094
The same should apply for Arcanine then given it's not entirely inspired on a dog, cats still have all 3 Meowth forms, 2 Meowstic, Purugly, Delcatty, which is a complete shitter, but it exists and Torracat Floragato are still very clearly based on house cats.
Dogs meanwhile have Houndoom, Stoutland, Mabostiff, Hountstone, Granbull, Smeargle, Furfrou, Daschbun, Lucario (I think it's vaguely based on a German Sheperd, could be a jackal, I dunno) Boltund and Okidogi, if you absolutely want to pretend Arcanine is purely based on a dog, sure, fine, it's here too.
Female Meowstic with Competitive still gets a MAX boost, dogs get flinched by a ton of Fake Outs, male Meowstic clicks Psychic Terrain, Expanding Force will kill every dog that isn't Houndoom and Mabostiff, Meowstic gets access to Fairy and Bug coverage, Perrserker hits like a truck even with all the Intimidates factored in with Close Combat. DOGS. STILL. LOSE.

BEHOLD, A CAT!! Well, when it's eating one alive at least.

>>57895147
Intimidate doesn't affect non-adject Pokemon if there's more than 2 on the field anon. Play the games.

>>57895147
>Every dogmon with Intimidate as a possible ability should get it even if it's not optimal so it fits my very specific scenario of Meowstic sweeping everything

>>57895147
>10 fake outs vs 12 dogs, not counting immunities and assuming neither lucario or okidogi press upper hand and kill something in the process
>smeargle can literally do anything it wants, from setting terrain to putting everything to sleep with dark void or even fake outing itself
>prankster riolu shenanigans
>Houndstone's last respects
>CC doing anything at -6

I keep trying to do damage calcs on a female Meowstic using Expanding Force with Psychic Terrain, Helping Hand and Nasty Plot factored in, but smogon's damage calculator for whatever reason refuses to work for me.
>>57895163
That's odd, I was pretty sure it worked before, but I also didn't try out horde battles much, so I'll concede here.
>>57895168
Without proper knowledge of what's ahead and assuming in a purely hypothetical scenario were Pokemon brought their usual best sets with their intent of only being aware of what their allies as are using, yes. Intimidate is typically considered optimal to use in pretty much every Pokemon it's available in except Gyarados and Crocodile due to Moxie also being fantastic.
>>57895220
>Smeargle using Dark Void
Lol, lmao even.
I concede there's less cats, but it's all about picking priority targets, obviously Mabostiff and Houndoom are the biggest threats, Boltund is faster, so that's also a target of focus, most of the other dogs do good damage, but not enough to usually threaten a 1 shot on most cats
>Prankster Riolu
It doesn't get that much, Follow Me and Howl attacking boosting are nice I suppose.
>Cats have plenty of Dark coverage
>Houndstone isn't very bulky on the special side, something of which several players on the cat side can abuse to their advantage
>CC at -6
That's a fair point, but the anon keeps bitching I'm being unrealistic for assuming naturally that every dogmon that could would run Intimidate, so you dogfuckers make up your damn minds.

>>57895268
What sort of dogshit damage calcs are you doing that Lucario, H-Arcanine, Houndstone and Okidogi aren't onetapping absolute shitmons like Delcatty and NFEs

>>57895268
Only Granbull and Arcanine would run Intimidate. I'm pretty sure Mabostiff would rather run Guard Dog so it doesn't get intimidated itself. HArc can run Rock Head.

>>57895277
>Already brought up pretty much every single catmon having Fake Out like 5 times already and even made a point of picking specific targets while outnumbered
>Made a point about the cat side being able to easily win with team effort even with absolute shitters like Delcatty being a part of it
>Catmons generally outspeed dogmons outside of Boltund, which is fast as fuck
>>57895300
Fair, albeit only Torracat would have Intimidate and given recent developments it would be entirely based if the two were paired up for that to work.

>>57895349
Cool, and you outright ignored mons being immune to normal or using moves that cancel fake out. You need to guess correctly up to 12 times in a row to actually get your gameplan set up, all it takes for the dogs is one stray Crunch or Dark Pulse or Poltergeist to kill either of the Meowstics. And this is without even factoring in Tera Dark, items like Covert Cloak, priority status, or Intimidate working the way you want it to.

>>57895376
>Ignored all mons immune to Normal
>Literally just 1
Notice how I didn't bring up items at all? Or the fact Megas and gimmicks were pretty much ruled out since the start of the thread pretty much? Do you want to spend fucking days here whining about Tera uses or niche item utility? No? Me neither.

>>57895414
You're ignoring
>Ghost type
>Upper Hand
>Inner Focus
>Quick Guard
Probably more that I'm forgetting, and that's just for turn 1
Also
>Covert Cloak
>Niche
Come the fuck on now

i dont know about all that but Mega Rayquaza solos

>>57895453
>Fidough used Play Rough!

>>57895300
We already said Arcanine wouldn't count because of its cat qualities

>>57895077
>literal schizo troonoid
That is completely false.
>Game Freak wanted a male counterpart to Ho-oh
Source: your ass. It was the marketing team for the movie who gave Lugia a male voice when they shat out a trailer and broadcast it ASAP without consulting anyone. Also, Game Freak probably used MADAME as part of the base for Lugia because they wanted it to be feminine.
>the faggot was so obsessed with shoving the idea of a motherly Lugia into the Ashnime somehow that he convinced the writers later into the Johto anime to add a momma Lugia and her baby as a central part of a story arc
Again, pulled out of your ass. He had no involvement in the making of those episodes. What really happened is that the anime team wanted to cheer him up.

>>57889910 (OP)
Cat-Like Pokémon Team (Examples):

Mewtwo (Psychic): Arguably one of the most powerful Pokémon ever.

Mew (Psychic): Mythical with huge move versatility.

Espeon (Psychic): High Special Attack and Speed.

Incineroar (Fire/Dark): A tank with Intimidate and strong physical moves.

Zeraora (Electric): Mythical with extreme Speed and Attack.

Luxray (Electric): Intimidating presence with solid Attack.


Strengths:

Legendary/Mythical power (Mewtwo, Mew, Zeraora).

High Speed and Special Attack.

Trickery and type diversity (Psychic, Fire, Electric, Dark).
---

Dog-Like Pokémon Team (Examples):

Zacian (Fairy/Steel): Broken-tier with absurd Attack in Crowned Sword form.

Arcanine (Fire): Versatile tank with decent Speed and Attack.

Lycanroc (Rock): Fast and fierce.

Lucario (Fighting/Steel): Great movepool and Mega Evolution.

Suicune (Water): Legendary with excellent bulk.

Houndoom (Dark/Fire): Mega form boosts its Special Attack hugely.


Strengths:

Legendary/mythical status (Zacian, Suicune).

Powerful physical attackers (Zacian, Lucario).

Strong typing synergy (Steel, Fairy, Fighting, Fire, Water).
---

Winner: Cat Pokémon (Slight Edge)

Despite the poll favoring dogs, cat Pokémon have the edge due to Mewtwo, Mew, Zeraora, and Incineroar. These are top-tier in both lore and competitive stats. Mewtwo alone has taken down entire teams.

But—Zacian is so absurdly strong it almost balances things. If it’s included, Team Dog could win in pure muscle.


---

Verdict:

Competitive Edge: Cats (slightly)

Popularity Vote: Dogs (based on poll)

Best All-Rounder: Toss-up depending on lineup and strategy

>>57895453
>team snake consisted of seviper, arbok, servine, onix, and fucking silicobra absolutely shitting themselves while a mega fug named "Let Me Solo Them" carries
Kinography

>>57896087
Aside from the fact every generation since introducing box legends had a feminine and masculine paired dynamic, the Fenghuang, which Game Freak based Ho-Oh off was long considered a feminine deity in Eastern mythology. That Shudo was told to add it to S01Ep01 as a tease of the (then) sequel to come meant it had LONG been created and considered as important and special. Shudo tried to add his fursona as heroine to a movie, then got pissed when A) Sugimori redesigned it to fit within the Pokémon universe and B) dictated it to be presented as male, as they had already got a feminine box legend and had done since Spaceworld '97's demo. The very fact the lore of one is pulled out an alcoholic pillhead's arse and the other is Japabnese myth turned Pokémon should fucking TELL you they wanted a male/female dynamic with their box legends. 'Elsewise, why the fuck did they bother changing Lugia's presentation from initial concept?

>>57889960
Zamazenta and Zacian are wolves, Entei is closer to a Tibetan Mastif, Raikou is a Sabre Teeth Tiger, Suicune is too ambiguous but has a dog-like snout.
>>57890020
>>57890027
Weavile and Chien-Pao are closer to Wolverines and Weasels. Two of those are dinosaurs.
>>57890128
It tries to stop them from fighting to prevent "disaster" and gets mobbed by both groups who decide they hate Absol more.

>>57897068
>-like
This is a cop out.
And Mewtwo is closer in build to a fetus or a Human Woman than a feline.

>>57897169
Oh and Frieza.

>>57897163
>Weavile and Chien-Pao are closer to Wolverines and Weasels. Two of those are dinosaurs.
Weavile is part cat. Chien Pao's name literally translates to leopard. Read the thread.

>>57897175
>Read the thread
We already concluded for this conversation to go anywhere you have to stop trying to include faggot legendaries and stick to literal Domestic Cats vs Domestic Dogs. And then it was answered: it depends on if both forms of Meowstic are allowed and if so, then can they, Perserker, Delcatty and a bunch of NFEs can kill a Houndstone, Houndoom and an Okidogi in one turn. With a species clause cats are beyond saving.

>>57897146
Any gender contrast between game versions started with ruby and sapphire because gold and silver was before they introduced female protagonists and them intentionally trying to market to girls. And it's only really explicit with Latios and Latias.

Overall you only can claim the feminine version is whichever version they associate with the female protagonist. Sapphire is associated with May and Latias but I would say Kyogre is feminine. The name means "ogre king of the sea".

>>57897190
>The name means "ogre king of the sea".
Even still he's a pretty fish with long tassels on his tail, while Groudon is an angry red lizard covered in spikes. It's obvious who appeals to who.

>>57897187
You bitched about Weavile and Chien-Pao. I literally just corrected you you fucking retard. I said nothing in regards to the other stuff.

>>57897226
You said to read the thread. Well, >>57895083
>>57895085
>>57895113
Fuck off with your "cat-weasels" and read it then.

>>57897249
Sneasel and Weavile are considered cats. Deal with it faggot.

>>57897249
Then we're not including Arcanine or Growlithe because they're part tiger. Lucario is a jackal and Lycanroc is a wolf. Probably more like that if you're going to be petty.

>>57897163
>Entei is closer to a Tibetan Mastif
>literally says its basically a lion
You can argue that it has dog traits and that it shouldn't be counted but it certainly isn't more dog than cat.

>>57897146
1. I never denied Ho-Oh is supposed to be feminine. I've probably known about the Fenghuang longer than you've been alive, stupid zoomer.
2. It's a chinese myth- not from Japan. Did you even read your own image?
3. A stronger argument for Lugia being male is that, despite being a bird, it is stated in the games to look like a dragon (this is because it was also based on the beta-mon that looks like a viking boat).
4. Sugimori worked closely with Shudo and originally gave Lugia an X marking because it's what Shudo called her during production. Lugia having big "hands" is probably also because of a comment Shudo made (about Lugia being like a mother smacking the other birds for misbehaving).
5. I already mentioned that the male voice was a mistake of the people who made the ads for the movie. Everyone else had to roll with it despite Lugia being planned as female. Get your head out of your ass and stop ignoring the truth.

>>57897190
Kyogre was literally called the mother of all life or something like that in gen 8, the screenshot of that got posted on /vp/ a few times and was said by Peony's daughter. The leaked documments pretty much confirmed it's female too.

>>57897710
>Peony: "Whoa! Is that Kyogre? The Pokémon they say created the seas?! If the ocean's the mother of all life...and Kyogre's the mother of the ocean... Should we all be callin' Kyogre our nan?! Listen up, Chief... You better be nice and gentle with that Kyogre!"

>The Book of Enoch (60:7–9) describes Leviathan as a female monster dwelling in the watery abyss (as Tiamat), while Behemoth is a male monster living in the desert of Dunaydin ("east of Eden").

Kyogre is female.

>>57897488
I'm older than you son. Which means your eyesight's FUCKED, given I specifically mentioned EASTERN mythology (originated in China, yes. The Japanese version of it's called a fucking Hō-ō, Hou-ou or Ho-Oh, which again was in the image I posted). Didn't bother reading the rest of what you wrote, you've already proved yourself to be a blind, retarded cunt, thus the rest your points are not worth wasting my time with. Not my fault you're a retard, pay better attention to the world next life.

purugly

>>57897868
>I'm older than you son.
What you really are is a sore loser.

>>57897710
an in-universe statement two decades later isn't really proof of what original intentions may be. I don't think they were intending to take version gender coding that far back the especially since they already had latios and latias doing it with explicit genders. It was sitll the first time they had a female protagonist from the start.

Also the hebrew monsters theory has never been confirmed as an actual inspiration instead of just an ad hoc association from common themes. it has as much evidence as people seeing giratina as satan and arceus as the abrahamic god.

>>57897940
What part of the fucking leaked documments of the design philosophy behind the Pokemon's design do you not get? Arceus has nothing to do with jewsus and the christcuck cult, it's name ethymology was confirmed to derive the "eus" from Zeus and the leaked lore tied to Arceus alongside the Greek and Roman themes that got weirdly melded into the background of gen 3 and 4 tie back to the mythology of the titans of Greek myth and the primordial emergence from chaos into the known existence, I also remember reading a few Chinese mythology books a long time ago and it's pretty clear some inspirations from Pangu's birth and of course Shinto beliefs from Japan also played a part in it what with spear pillar and such being based on the origin myths of Shinto, but from Volo's getup, the original look of spear pillar and the Greek architecture present in the ruins in PLA and DPP is a sign as to their original intent. That early piece of art from gen 3 we got with the girl riding the Latiken had her wearing a toga, Metagross was based on the antikythera, the X symbol branding it's face, the fact it's an ancient computer meant to foretell events, Sothopolis very much has a Greek look going for it too. I think it even goes as far as gen 3's original project name being Atlantis. Leviathan was a kike ripoff of Tiamat, who was a monstrous goddess of life and the ocean, ogre is a losely defined term that describes something monstrous, doesn't that sound familiar at all? Giratina is the odd one out, as it does have 666 aspects tied to it, but (((abrahamic))) trash isn't the only thing in existence with a primordial entity that represents chaos or a rebellion against it's creator. Giratina represents the oposition to normality, anti-matter, rather than being evil.

>>57898056
i'm saying there is minimal proof the super ancient pokemon were inspired by hebrew mythology beasts and that abrahamaic arceus is just as unlikely

>>57897868
>Japanese version of it's called a fucking Hō-ō, Hou-ou or Ho-Oh
That's just a name translation, imbecile. That's like saying Japan has its own version of Sun Wukong just because they call it Son Goku over there.

>>57898569
Which they happened to name their pokémon after, yes. Can play the dumb cunt card all you want, but sadly reality does not adhere to your delusions.

>>57897175
Yeah it's more mustelid than feline which is just cope padding. At most you can put big cats and none-dog canines which still falls under the spirit of it.

>>57899795
>Yeah it's more mustelid than feline which is just cope padding.
The anime literally treats it as a cat retard. You're the one coping.

>>57899795
>Chien-Pao and Paojian may be a combination of 劍 / 剑 jiàn (Chinese for sword) or 寶劍 / 宝剑 bǎojiàn (Chinese for treasure sword) and 豹 bào (Chinese for leopard).
>It may also be partly inspired by the 檮杌 / 梼杌 Táowù, another of the Four Perils known for its large tusks as well as having a genus of saber-toothed cats named after it.
>The weasel- or linsang-like shape of its form likely alludes to the tiger tally (虎符 hǔfú), the proof of imperial authorization in ancient China for implementation of troop orders. Most examples of the tiger tally depict a stylized tiger long and crouching.

>>57897940
>>57898056
>>57898388
Arceus draws inspiration from basically all of the well known creator dieties and sky fathers.
>Arceus has nothing to do with jewsus and the christcuck cult
Explain "Judgment" being its signature move.

the japanese wikis seem to note that although the anime and some official artwork saw it as a cat its foreign names are more derived from weasel and ferret and that its beta design was straight up just a weasel. it's based on the kamaitachi. the most well-known weasel yokai. and also the reason for the ice typing.

the increasing cat-like perception over time may be japan's typical cultural fixation on cats and lack of exposure to weasels. The have tendency to primarily see cat in anything that isn't clearly exclusively jsut one other thing like their perception of eevee.

>>57900033
Asians are more likely to associate the word judgement with King Enma.

>>57900234
It's literally a mix of both. The nyu comes from nya and にゅー nyu (cat's purr).

>>57900234
>associate the word judgement with King Enma
why would they associate it with a creature like Arceus then?

>>57900821
Sabaki Pebble is using the word more like in the more general fighting game sense

>>57900844
>fighting game sense
That makes it sound even less fitting for a creator diety pokemon anon

>>57889910 (OP)
cats are stupid

>>57900972
it is at the end of the day just a competitive attacking move with no special effects whatsover outside of just changing type category (and thus changing "judgement")

>>57901017
Dogs are disgusting

>>57890629
Reminder that the only reason artists don't give these external ears is because it makes them look more exotic and alien.

>>57901020
This sounds like a way bigger cope than anything the people who say Arceus is partially inspired by the chrisitan god say.

>>57901319
the game is made by japanese people and japanese fnas never hear sabaki and think christian god. that specifc spelling has more game and martial arts connotations than trial verdict like Enma's Judgement.

>>57901456
>that specifc spelling has more game and martial arts connotations than trial verdict like Enma's Judgement
Ok.
Why has the attack never been depicted like either of those then?

>>57894985
>>57894986

>>57891456
>>57891449

>>57891161
>>57891160

>>57894269
>>57894249

>>57895014
>>57895017

>>57891195
>>57891183