Thread 58103697

the biggest sin the fairy type committed is that it didn't use the far cooler spelling of "faerie type"[

Thank god it doesn't

>>58103697 (OP)
It's actually unfairly nerfing bug while this was the perfect opportunity to buff bug by making it effect against fairy.

Also normal should resist fairy.

Also fairy didn't need to exist in the first place if dragon was weak to and resisted by poison and if dragon was weak to electric.

>>58103697 (OP)
It's biggest crime is resisting bug for no reason

what makes bugtards think that their type isn't intentionally supposed to suck complete shit? what makes campaignshitters so obsessed with perfect type chart balance?

>>58103724
Bug was already shit when the nerf was applied. Try again fag.

>>58103728
how is that related to bugtards wanting it to be super effective against fairy for no reason, defying all logic and game balancing sense?

>>58103724
>Junichi Masuda sits at the design meeting
>Underling: "Fairy will be a counter to the overturned dragon type while also giving bug it's desperately needed niche."
>Junichi sits up straight, eyes open wide.
>Junichi: "WHAT? BUFF BUG! IT'S SUPPOSED TO SUCK!"
>Underling: "Why?"
>Junichi thinks back to his childhood years. How he went Cicada hunting with his dad every time his boss came to visit... The look of shame on his mother's face whenever he asked her if she'd come too...
>Junichi: "If I hear of this again you're fired!"
>Underling: "Yes sir... It shall resist bug."

>>58103730
>defying all logic
Bugs eat Fairies
>No that doesn't make any sense!
But earth being super effective against rock does? Fuck off.
Bugs being effective against fairy would have been perfect.
>But bug is supposed to be shit!
That's shit game design.

>>58103734
sick fanfic but it's actually because bug is the tutorial for Evolution, they're supposed to be weak but evolve quickly to teach the player that evolution is more often than not a direct upgrade, however you have to tone them down so that the player can't just assrape the entire game with a Beedrill
and go figure, the game that first started to miss the point of the bug type and started to strip it of its identity was gen 5, what a surprise

>>58103738
>But earth being super effective against rock does
yes, it literally does because earthquakes break natural rock formations. Every single one of rock's weaknesses directly correlates to things that cause erosion in real life
>That's shit game design.
no it's not, shit game design would be making every single type equally powerful and with no identity whatsoever thus reducing the importance of types solely to the type chart, which explains why it's such a common campaignshitter thought process

>>58103740
I'm not even asking for bug to be super effective against fairy, I'm asking for fairy to not resist bug.
Bug would still be the worst type in this case, but at least fairy wouldn't be even more broken.
There's no reasonable reason logically or mechanically that fairy should resist bug

>>58103739
What?

That doesn't explain why bug had to be resisted by fairy instead of being effective against it.
Butterfree evolving early doesn't mean that you can't have a high power bug type later in the game.
Your early beedrill would still be shit against all the other gyms. It'd just not be shit against fairy.
This would actually be a great moment to also teach players how typing works, and that a weak pokémon can beat a more powerful one if it has favorable typing.

>>58103740
Fucking weird ass logic. Bug can't have an identity if it isn't shit? Wouldn't fairy counter be an identity. You're just an apologist who thinks the devs are always correct.

>>58103740
Ground even being distinct from rock is already highly questionable, but by your retarded logic flying should also counter rock because wind also causes rock erosion

>>58103739
Beedrill isn't going to rape the entire game because of its typing you dumb fucking triple retard

>>58103745
>I'm not even asking for bug to be super effective against fairy, I'm asking for fairy to not resist bug.
fair enough
>>58103746
>That doesn't explain why bug had to be resisted by fairy instead of being effective against it.
yes it does, fairy became the best type in the game because it's immune to and super-effective against the former best type in the game, you want to do the same to Bug. it makes zero sense
>b-but muh poison and muh steel!
poison and steel generally don't have very good attacking moves, bug does.
>Butterfree evolving early doesn't mean that you can't have a high power bug type later in the game.
yes it does because it's the bug type's identity to be an early game shitter type. It's like saying you can just have a weak early game dragon type, you can, gen 6 notoriously did this, but then Dragon is just like any other type out there and loses its identity, which guess what, it did in gen 6
>Your early beedrill would still be shit against all the other gyms. It'd just not be shit against fairy.
if it's not shit against the best type in the game then it's not shit period
>This would actually be a great moment to also teach players that a weak pokémon can beat a more powerful one if it has favorable typing.
this is taught to you by your starter pokemon, or at least it used to be. There's a reason why in gen 1 your starter doesn't start out with a STAB move and why Brock's pokemon are quad weak to 2 out of 3 starters
>>58103746
>Bug can't have an identity if it isn't shit?
it can, it just happens that its identity is to be shit
>Wouldn't fairy counter be an identity
then make a new type to have that identity, just like they made Fairy to counter Dragon instead of changing Bug to be the Dragon counter for no reason
>You're just an apologist who thinks the devs are always correct.
I think the developers of the highest grossing media franchise of all time know the design of their own games better than fucktarded campaignshitters on /vp/, yes.

>>58103753
wind causes rock erosion because it makes sand particles rub against rocks. Sand particles are Ground.
>>58103758
how would you have felt if you hadn't eaten breakfast yesterday morning?

Why doesn't this type still get a mutual resistance to Normal to symbolize normies not believing in fairy tales by using the same logic how Normal is immune to Ghost type and vice-versa?

>>58103769
because according to /vp/ every single type needs to be perfectly balanced in the type chart, except Normal which for some reason is the only type /vp/ decided should be allowed to have an identity

>Bug should just be shit because my divine commander said so
>It's actually good game design to 1/18th of the types just be bad!
>Fairy became the best type because it countered the previous best type, thus bug shouldn't counter Fairy because then bug becomes the best type! No please dont look at all the good types that already counter bug and would have kept it in check
Fairy was op because that means they'd make more sales on le awesome new type
Stop eating shit on a platter and inventing reasons why you like it.

>You want bug to not be hot garbage?
>Ha! That means you want everything to be perfectly balanced and for nothing to have an identity
Holy stawman. Not worth engaging with these corporate bootlickers

/vp/ and campaignshitters (redudant) essentially want to MTG-fy the pokemon franchise. in old MTG each color had a specialization
>red liked to deal direct damage to the player with spells
>blue liked to heal, draw and do overall control such as counterspelling and bouncing
>green was the "momentum" color, it ate shit for 2/3rds of the game but after you built up enough mana you could put beefy, scary creatures on the field
>white liked to flood the field with an army of weak creatures who become much stronger in a group
>black liked to be high-risk high-reward with spending life points for effects, as well as killing or weaknening creatures
but nowadays? who the fuck cares, everyone can do everything. And this concept makes campaignshitters cream in their pants because all they want to do is have a team of 6 pokemon with no overlapping types, 2 STABs, a boosting move and a coverage move. It's no coincidence that campaignshitters fellate the fuck out of the phys/spec split because it made every pokemon play exactly like that

>>58103739
>and go figure, the game that first started to miss the point of the bug type and started to strip it of its identity was gen 5, what a surprise
But Gen 2 was the first to add good bug types with Scizor/Heracross/Forretress.

>>58103760
>calls other people campaignshitters
>all his arguments are based around how he thinks bug types should play in the campaign
?

>>58103803
actually gen 1 was the first with Scyther and Pinsir

>>58103803
this kills the campaignshitter
>>58103811
lurk moar and maybe you'll learn what "campaignshitter" means

>>58103739
>the game that first started to miss the point of the bug type and started to strip it of its identity was gen 5
can you explain how scyther and pinsir are supposed to be "weak pokemon that evolve early"?

>>58103820
>2 pokemon out of 12 completely DESTROYS your argument libtard!!!!

>>58103820
NTA but Scyther and Pinsir were complete shit in gen 1

>>58103817
UUBL with a small niche in OU is still better than 80% of the Pokemon in the game retard. It's better than literally every single starter in GS save for maybe Charizard, better than some legendaries like Articuno and Entei. And Forretress and Heracross are both OU proper. There are more Bug types in GSC OU than fucking Dragon which has 0.

>>58103839
>There are more Bug types in GSC OU than the type with two (2) fully evolved members and one (1) viable move
what a shocker

>>58103724
the idea that a type is supposed to be outright bad in a game that incentivises you to catch and train everything you fight is 1. Objectively poor game design and 2. A waste when that type is also the coolest one

>>58103846
The point is that Dragon which was obviously intended to be a powerful type was extremely medicore in Gen 2, meanwhile there were multiple good Bug types. Your "type identity" is fanfic garbage.

>>58103847
>the idea that a type is supposed to be outright bad in a game that incentivises you to catch and train everything you fight is 1. Objectively poor game design
you retards keep saying this like it's some sort of unquestionable fact, and that's because you can't reasonably explain or justify this thought process, so you believe that by stating it so matter-of-factually you'll somehow persuade me or pressure me into betraying all basic logical thought and agreeing with you. If some pokemon weren't designed to be weaker than others, evolution and legendaries wouldn't exist so it's clearly deliberate and intentional. cope and seethe

>>58103851
>The point is that Dragon which was obviously intended to be a powerful type
>Your "type identity" is fanfic garbage.
you literally contradict yourself in your own post. try harder

>>58103856
Learn to read.

fairies are girly
girls hate bugs

>>58103860
I did read. You concede that, regardless of execution, there was intent to design some types to be more powerful than others, which means you are in agreement with me and proving me right. If anything you're the one who didn't read not just my posts but also the post you yourself wrote.
why do campaignshitters project so much?

>>58103820
Scyther and Pinsir literally have 0 stab moves in gen 1. Even if they did the strongest bug move was leech life with 20 basepower.
Oh wait Scyther does get stab wing attack with 35 base power!

>>58103875
>Scyther and Pinsir literally have 0 stab moves in gen 1.
holy fucking shit you're right
behold, picrel is the campaignshitters strongest argument in favor of the bug type not being designed to be complete shit, the absolute final "hail mary' that they thought would destroy my argument
point at them and laugh with me
K E K A R O O
E
K
A
R
O
O

>>58103869
The only thing I said is that Dragon was designed to be powerful, because it is literally the type of the first pseudo and at least for the first 5 gens or so basically every dragon was a late-game high BST pokemon (except Altaria I guess) and like half of them were pseudos.

I never conceded that Bug was designed to be shit, that's your own fanfic. As early as Gen 2 there were multiple strong bug types that were clearly intended to be powerful (just look as how Scizor or Heracross were portrayed in the anime). The fact that Beedrill and Ledian exist does not mean Bug is meant to be shit just like the fact that Fearow and Noctowl exist does not mean Flying is meant to be shit, of course the early route Pokemon are bad.

>>58103879
>The only thing I said is that Dragon was designed to be powerful
>>58103879
>I never conceded that Bug was designed to be shit, that's your own fanfic
that's true but getting a half-concession out of a campaignshitter is already a sweet enough victory
>of course the early route Pokemon are bad.
yeah that's why there are tons of early route dragon types and late route bug types in the earlier gens, it's definitely not at all something that was exacerbated in gens 5 and 6, the gens that continued the anal rape of type identity started by gen 4

>>58103875
>Even if they did the strongest bug move was leech life with 20 basepower.
I did forget about Twinneedle and Pin Missile, but the only bug that gets them is Beedrill.
Twinneedle is 2x25 base power and Pin Missile is 1-5x14 lol

>>58103875
>>58103878
Like half the dex doesn't get STAB in gen 1 or if it does it's some abysmal low BP move like Gust and Sludge. GF just didn't know what the fuck they were doing in Gen 1. I doubt they intended for like Machamp to be total dogshit, they probably didn't intend it for Scyther or Pinsir either.

>>58103886
That's a whole lot of words to say literally nothing relevant to my point. Have you ever heard of pigeons and chess?

>>58103892
depends, have you ever heard of ostriches and burying their heads?

>>58103889
Bug, Dragon, Poison, Ghost, and fighting were the worst off types for stab. Fighting did have a couple of strongish moves by gen 1 standards but they came with serious downsides : submission, hi jump kick

>>58103919
Pokemon is an RPG. Why would you want an RPG where the sword you find in the first dungeon is competitive with the sword you find in the final dungeon?

>>58103928
Because type isnt the sole thing that makes the sword good you idiot.
Bug being a good type wouldn't make Beedrill a good pokemon.

>>58103928
Such a fucking brain dead argument holy fucking shit

>>58103875
>>58103838
So how early do they evolve?

>>58103823
So a third of the bug evolution lines? Half, unless you want to argue that venonat evolving at 31 is early.

>>58103944
>So how early do they evolve?
they don't and they're shit because of it, intentionally so. Pinsir was going to get an evolution and Scyther did get an evolution. You think this disproves my point when in actuality it just proves it further. You lost, cope.
>So a third of the bug evolution lines?
I'm going to give you some time so that you can calculate 2 divided by 12. I'll even let you use a calculator if you want

>>58103928
erm erm erm because that RPG's PvP might be played online competitively and every PvP game needs to be PERFECTLY balanced in every single aspect until every unique aspect of the game and every bit of player expression is completely removed (this is somehow a good thing because it makes it easier for me, someone who doesn't play competitive but likes to pretend I do, fantasize about winning a tournament one day just like how I fantasize about being a woman)
>>58103943
>no counterargument
sasuga campaignshitter-kun, concession accepted

>>58103968
>Actually player expression is better when one thing is unusable shit
Lmao what a faggot loser with no point

You know you're wrong. But realizing your favorite multi billion dollar franchise as imperfect is too much to handle

Kill yourself

>>58103973
>Lmao what a faggot loser with no point
you can't just say someone has "no point" and expect to win the argument, you can ignore my many factually substantiated, objectively correct points all you want, it'll always be there, just like your Y chromosome
>realizing your favorite multi billion dollar franchise as imperfect is too much to handle
I haven't bought a pokemon game since BW, meanwhile (You) bought them all anyway + dlc + tax + tip. prove me wrong
>Kill yourself
oooh so scary, you know what would actually get me to shut up? an actual counterargument. But unfortunately that would mean looking at the facts, which unfortunately for you, support me and my argument

Why are you all strawmanning in your arguments?

>>58103960
If you're counting individual pokemon instead of evolution lines then there are six bug pokemon in gen 1 that don't evolve and necessarily don't fit your criteria, which is 50%. Unfortunate.

>>58103980
We can all see you building your strawmen nigger faggot
No point being nice or fair to you when you're such a bad faith arguing loser

>>58103987
>If you're counting individual pokemon instead of evolution lines then there are six bug pokemon in gen 1 that don't evolve
incorrect:
Venomoth evolves, from Venonat. Parasect also evolves, form Paras. Beedrill and Butterfree also evolve, from Kakuna and Metapod respectively. Pinsir and Scyther are the only bug types in gen 1 who don't evolve. Anyone who's interacted with pokemon for more than 5 minutes would know this.
If you're this fundamentally factually wrong about basic tenets of the franchise, then we really have nothing to discuss, as nothing of value could ever come from you. Try playing the games before you run your mouth, maybe it'll go better next time.

>>58103982
Ask that to tbe nigger faggot who thinks that people who just don't want bug to thematically counter fairy to automatically want to sterilize all of pokémon

You won't get a straight answer tho because he's a Jewish rat

>>58103994
>We can all see you
then it should be super easy to point out that strawman and deconstruct it, but you can't because it doesn't exist. (You)'re simply hoping that by repeating something loud and often enough, it will become true. But again, like your Y chromosome, the existence of things isn't determined by how hard you believe or loudly you scream about it. I'm sorry.

>>58104001
I already did that loser but you ignored it because you're a Jewish rat who argues in bad faith.

This kills the niggerposter campaignshitter.

>>58104006
>I already did that
where? point out the exact post number

and thus the campaignshitter devolves into abject reality denial, a practice "she' is more than familiar with, as it is the basis of "her womanhood". Hopefully the campaignshitter will one day develop the wherewithal to escape the schizoid schizoid death cult he's found himself in and hopefully be able to procure the Pimozide he so desperately needs in order to stabilize his fractured mind and properly engage with the real world again

>>58104012
Here
>>58103784

This is such a painfully obvious thing that I don't even need to point it out by the way. If you had any modicum of introspection you'd notice this right away.

Forever baffled that Fire got a Fairy resistance instead of Grass

>>58104026
is accusing someone of wanting to take a shit on my plate because they're on top of my table crouching down with their ass out also "a strawman"? because if it is, then sure, I made a strawman. You are also a woman and the word "evolve" means whatever you want it to. I'm not going to bother arguing with someone who doesn't believe in the meaning of words. Whatever you want to believe in is the undeniable truth, enjoy the next 30 minutes of your life before you inevitably 41% yourself.

Lot of words to just say "i was wrong"

I wasn't and am not wrong though. Yes, if you want to buff bug you 100% want to homogenize every type and remove their individual identities. Why would you possibly stop at just the bug type? because it's the weakest? well after you buff it and something else becomes the weakest type, what would stop you from wanting to buff that too? and then after you buff that type and something else is the weakest, why wouldn't you buff that too?
It's just extremely basic, elementary school lever logical inference. Which to the underaged, sub-80 IQ /vp/ poster might as well be theoretical astrophysics

>i was wrong im gay and i concede
Thanks man i accept your concession.

>Point out where he was stawmanning
>Immediately pulls out another bad faith argument

By the way, for some who doesn't care about balance you sure seem to care a lot about balance.

>more abject, bold-faced denial of reality in the form of self-soothing fanfiction
you do know you don't have to prove me right THIS hard, don't you?

So what did we learn today:

Fairy should have been weak to bug and anyone thinking otherwise is a jewish bad faith arguing nigger

>accuses me people of arguing in bad faith
>in the same sentence calls me jewish and a nigger
you can't make this type of self-unaware retardation up, it can only come from the punished mind of the campaignshitter

Yes I don't need to be nice to someone who started strawmanning me immediately. We can all scroll up to see you do it by the way you little rat. I don't have to play your little game.

>NOOOO YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO LET ME STRAWMAN YOU!!!!
>YOU CAN'T JUST POINT IT OUT AND CALL ME WHAT I AM!

Haha no, I see what you did and everyone else can see it to little rat
You were a bad faith nigger from the beginning. This isn't your highschool debate club where we're supposed to play along with your shit behavior.

Is this the same guy that claims Onix was made to be a early game boss and thats why it has such dogshit stats

you can call me every type of nigger on the planet, everyone else can see that you're the one throwing a shitfit because I destroyed your argument and it hurt your feefees. cope however you wish, but those are the facts, and proof of that is how you STILL cannot produce a substantial counterargument.
again, if my points were so "bad faith" and so wrong as you claim them to be, it should be easy, no, TRIVIAL, to deconstruct them and humiliate me in front of the entire board, but you know you can't which is why you're pretending to be the bigger brain by refusing to engage with this fictional bad faith argument you concocted.

Yeah he is lol

>>58104072
Personally I think psychic should resist it and/or be SE against it, but I agree bug deserves a bit of help and making yet another type resist it was undeserved.

Lmao he's still trying to salvage his complete meltdown, desperately hoping nobody will scroll up to see him immediately stawman harder than a politician.

Never mind that all your points are shit too btw, all those arguments you think are so cool have already been dismantled by me and other anons

And of course, your core argument is so painfully bad anyone who reads it can immediately tell you're brown.

There it is LMAO

>>58104123
>Lmao he's still trying to salvage his complete meltdown, desperately hoping nobody will scroll up to see him immediately stawman harder than a politician
this post has been on the front page of /vp/ for the past 2 hours and the only person who saw me "immediately strawman harder than a politician" is (You). If it's that obvious, then surely most of the board would have joined in by now, right? It's almost as if the only person who believes the bullshit you're coming up with is (You).
>all those arguments you think are so cool have already been dismantled by me and other anons
no, they really haven't. Calling me a jew, rat, nigger, etc. isn't "dismantling an argument", as a matter of fact whenever someone DID try to dismantle an argument, such as >>58103851, they end up accidentally agreeing with me.
>And of course, your core argument is so painfully bad anyone who reads it can immediately tell you're brown.
The supposed "dismantling" of my argument, ladies and gents. This is the sheer prowess of the campaignshitter's analytical mind. This is what I'm supposed to be LE LIBTARD OWNED by.

You already conceded lil bro no need cry more.

>You already [FANFICTION]
we need to send logs of /vp/ to academics so they can study the workings of the tranny mind and hopefully save these people before it's too late

Bro is making a river at this point

>hmmm me calling him a rat, a jew and a nigger didn't change his mind... and it's not like I have any facts to present. whatever shall I do?
is that how you got groomed into the cult? did they just call you a "chud" and a "transphobe" one too many times and your feefees couldn't take it so you just had to troon out as well to be accepted? Because you don't need to bow to peer pressure to be accepted, campaignshitter-kun. You deserve to be accepted by who you really are. It's not too late to escape the cult.

He's not even making any sense now. I think bugbros broke him.

>outright admits xe/xir has problems reading
actual torture couldn't get that confession out of me

Another W for bugCHADS

>>58104134
Haha nigger what the fuck lmao please
Sure
Then why hasn't anyone come to your defense either your majesty?
Maybe because people by and large don't care about shitty internet arguments.
But actually people do agree with me, I'm not the only one shitting on you. So by your own logic you're obviously in the wrong here.

Your core argument is "if things are balanced they won't have an identity" and that's just so blatantly fucking wrong that I can't believe I have to point this out to you. But balanced =/= identical.

And I don't even give a shit about balance in the first place. I just think bug is weak, and there was an opportunity to make it good in a thematic way, and that it's lame that this wasn't capitalized on.

Anyway, go ahead and pretend that I stawmanned you now. Here's you're exact quote btw: >>58103740
>>no it's not, shit game design would be making every single type equally powerful and with no identity

This is also your first stawman btw. You immediately constructed a point that nobody was making that's easy to attack.

God you're a fucking loser

>>58104160
bodied that freak

You people are schizophrenic.

>>58104165
turn on your monitor

>>58104160
>Then why hasn't anyone come to your defense either your majesty?
because the only way to come to my defense is to reiterate the multiple facts I've already presented. And if it didn't work when I did it, why would it work when repeated? Do you know the definition of insanity?
>But actually people do agree with me
no they don't.
>I'm not the only one shitting on you.
yes you are.

>>58103738
>Bugs [FANFIC]
every time

>>58104160
>>58104174
>Your core argument is "if things are balanced they won't have an identity" and that's just so blatantly fucking wrong that I can't believe I have to point this out to you.
you don't have to point this out because that was never my argument. You made that up, as if you were building some sort of... strawman. As always, accusations turn out to be confessions.
>Anyway, go ahead and pretend that I stawmanned you now.
"hmm if I strawman him and then correctly predict that he's going to point out the strawman, that'll really make HIM look like the bad faith debater"
>Here's you're exact quote btw:
>>no it's not, shit game design would be making every single type equally powerful and with no identity
see how I said "equally powerful AND with no identity"? see how I stated those things separately, implying I don't believe them to be synonymous? I know that reading comprehension is practically a superpower nowadays, but you could at least try.
My argument is that the only way campaignshitters can conceive of balance is to remove the individual identities of each type, like you want to do with Bug. This is because, as someone who doesn't actually play competitive pokemon, you think the type chart is the only determining factor in balancing and, as someone who doesn't play competitive games whatsoever, you think a balanced game is a game where everything is at the exact same level of relative power.
The type chart is already balanced, as proven by the fact that we're way past the gen 1 days where Psychic and Normal dominated everything. Buffing Bug, the type whose identity is tied to being the worst type, not only removes the type's identity but it does absolutely nothing to improve your vision of balance, because if Bug was no longer the weakest type, another type would take its place, which you would call to buff just like Bug, potentially in ways that would remove its identity as well, such as giving Grass the same offensive prowess as Ice.

I should just start posting smug faces at this moment, he's completely breaking down. He didn't even attempt to tackle any of the actual arguments he's been begging me to make because he has finally realized his point is unsalvagable shit.

>Bug, the type whose [FANFIC]
every time

campaignshitters think picrel is the greatest competitive game of all time

>[STRAWMAN]
every time

>He didn't even attempt to tackle any of the actual arguments he's been begging me to make
campaignshitters are functionally illiterate, more news at 11

>>58104190
actually that's still not right because fireball and dp motions change with whoever's on the right or left side of the screen, that means one player might be better than the other on a particular side of the screen, plus players might actually be able to choose whether to play as Ryu or Ken and that's simply too much player expression, picrel is actually the campaignshitters' greatest competitive game of all time. Controls are absolutely identical depending on what side you're on, there's absolutely nothing to distinguish the players or indeed any form of player expression whatsoever, perfect balance, perfect competitive game.

>campaignchads love pong
Wow i want to be one too they seem awesome

He's anally prolapsed
The mere fact that I can destroy his entire point in two words has destroyed him
>Balance =/= identical

There, everything he stands for is destroyed
Here's another one that'll have him shitting his pants.
>Identity =/= power

>>58104202
well little Timmy, it couldn't be easier! You too can become an AWESOME campaignshitter just by following these 3 simple steps!
>step 1: develop an unreasonable hatred for anyone who's any better than you at competitive videogames
>step 2: develop an enormous ego, the bigger the better, to the point where you are simply unable to admit you could be wrong and immediately devolve into spouting slurs and insults when someone shows up with those pesky inconvenient things called "facts". Remember Timmy: egos are like balloons, the bigger they are, the more fragile they get!
and finally
>step 3: just take these estrogen supplements twice a day for the rest of your life!
enjoy the campaignshitter life little Timmy, it's one heck of a ride!

>zoomies hate pong and street fighter
makes sense

>accusations turn out to be confessions
>talks about tranny pills alot
hmm...

>>58104212
>>Balance =/= identical
>There, everything he stands for is destroyed
exactly, Balance =/= identical, so why do you think that "balancing" the Bug type necessarily means buffing it and thus making it identical to every other type and removing its one defining trait?
Again, you accidentally agree with me. AGAIN. you actually did it AGAIN.

Btw isn't it awfully convenient that he suddenly has someone back him up when I pointed out that nobody is defending him?

>>58104219
I don't "hate" pong or street fighter, they're just bad competitive games. Street Fighter II is much less balanced than Street Fighter by default, and yet it's an infinitely superior competitive game. funny how that works, right? How competitive games become actively worse when you remove player expression in the name of "balance"?

>removing its one defining trait?
it's only defining trait is evolving earlier doebeit

>removing its one defining trait?
it's only defining trait is evolving earlier doebeit

>>removing its one defining trait?
>it's only defining trait is evolving earlier doebeit

>>58104225
I don't care about balance, and you don't care about perfect balance.
I just think bug is weak, that it would be cool if it were stronger, and that being good against fairy would have been a thematic way of doing that.
It's also just fucking deranged that you think bug's one defining trait is being shit, and not, you know, the insect theming.
Very convenient that you ignored identity =/= power btw.
Never mind the fact that bug could still be the weakest type overall while being effective against fairy. Your desire of shitty bugs isn't even under any threat by this effectiveness change.

>points out how gen 5 removed the one trait xe/xir claimed to be the defining trait of the bug type and gave it a trait commonly associated with Dragon
>this is somehow an argument against me and somehow not exactly the point I've been trying to make this entire time
terminal fucktardation
thanks for agreeing with me AGAIN by the way

>>points out how gen 5 removed the one trait
Nothing was removed doebeit, bug type evolves earlier than a dragon type howeveralbeit

>>58104239
Not me btw

Because you're arguing against multiple people (this proves by your own logic that you're wrong btw)
Also awfully convenient that the guy defending you disappears the moment I point out how suspicious it is.

Hmmm...

Really makes one think about the mind of person you are

>bug is meant to be.. LE WEAK
>wins Worlds before fairy type does
uhh...

>>58104248
It's almost as if a type being supposed to be bad is shit game design.

>>58104238
>I don't care about balance, and you don't care about perfect balance.
correct
>I just think bug is weak, that it would be cool if it were stronger
exactly, you want to remove Bug's defining trait because you want it to be more like the other types. Thanks for conceding.
>It's also just fucking deranged that you think bug's one defining trait is being shit, and not, you know, the insect theming.
and fire's trait is the fire theming, grass's trait is the grass theming, and flying's trait is the flying theming. Retarded drivel as expected of a campaignshitter, someone who refuses to use "her" brain.
Even by your logic I'm proven right because Dragon's trait hasn't been "the dragon theming" for at least 3 generations so even by your logic that's one type whose identity has gotten stripped. So thanks for agreeing with me AGAIN. What's this, like the fourth time?
>Very convenient that you ignored identity =/= power btw.
the absolute crux of my entire point is that Bug's identity is how NOT powerful it is, I ignored it because that would be another time you're agreeing with me and proving me right even further, but if you're really such a glutton for humiliation I can count that as the fifth time.
>Never mind the fact that bug could still be the weakest type overall while being effective against fairy.
Sure, if they remove all of the strong bugs (who would become massively overpowered from that change) from the game, and keep the shitty bugs who couldn't be salvaged even by the typing

>>58104248
>>58104252
want to explain why there are only gen 5 pokemon in that VGC result, campaignshitter-kun? Want to explain why that result is suspiciously similar to Ray Rizzo's VGC 2011 victory, a tournament played in gen 5 games before the Fairy type was in the game? Is there something you want to share with the class campaignshitter-kun?

>>58104238
>I don't care about balance
>I just think bug is weak, that it would be cool if it were stronger
you can't make this shit up

>dragon is supposed to be.. LE STRONG
>not a single dragon type in champion team
uhh...

>>58104248
if Bug is strong enough to win Worlds then why do you want to buff it?

>>58104267
Who said i want to buff it?

>dragon types one singel uno definite trait is to be LE STRONG GOKU SUPERMAN
>????
Can someone explain this? I was told how to tame my Dragon was the definite strongest type 100% confirmed by teraleak and Matusmoto but i don't see any in this team. Any explainers?

>>58104269
me

>>58104273
Who?

>>58104272
>Can someone explain this?
I can, you see, it's not balanced for dragon to have a niche as an overall rather powerful type, as a competitive expert with an ELO that's larger than yours (I'm not posting it, you post yours first so I can show you how mine's greater), it is my objective belief that every type should play the exact same and have the exact same power level, as this is the only way you can make a competitive game perfectly balanced, and perfectly balanced = objectively better, even if it makes every single type play the exact same and boils pokemon battles down to raw type chart numbers. And if you disagree with me you're a rat, nigger and jew who strawmans and argues in bad faith.

>strong bugs (who would become massively overpowered from that change)
What is this guy talking about? Escavalier? What a MARAUDER would definitely become overpowered if it did 10 damage instead of 5 to Zacian with Bug bite!

>>58104259
>NO AESTHETICS DON'T MATTER
lmao
And also dragon IS a shit type. And actually bug is a shit type too. It's fucking dumb that they ever made types who are based on animal types. Rock is also fucking dumb btw, should never have been separate from ground. Turns out pokémon isn't perfect.

>the absolute crux of my entire point is that Bug's identity is how NOT powerful
And I pointed out how absolutely shit that is. Power is not identity.
You genuinely, seriously think, that the only identity of a type is relative power. And that's wrong and dumb.

Anyway I'm not gonna keep repeating myself to disprove "arguments" I've already disproven.

Also funny how your buddy comes back now that I pointed out how suspicious it is that he disappeared when I pointed out how suspicious it is that he first appeared.

You're such a loser.

>>58104284
if the change is that miniscule, why are you arguing so fevereshly in its favor? could it be you're being intellectually honest? on MY /veepee/??

Beedrill would definitely be OU if it could U-Turn on Flutter Mane man.

>>58104259
>if they remove all of the strong bugs (who would become massively overpowered from that change)
Like who lmao? Volcarona? Scizor? Araquanid? They are the only few I'd even consider good in current competitive, and they arent even that good either. They aren't even overpowered with or without a better fairy matchup than they already have.

Strong bugs like bug tera Incineroar.

>(I'm not posting it)
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH HES SHOOK

>>58104259
This is the bug pokemon with the highest BST in S/V, and its fucking terrible because of its typing.
4x flying weakness, redundant super effective stab moves, weak to fairy thanks to fighting. Weak to fire which is everywhere, weak to psychic even though its a bug which threatens super effective on them back.
It's strongest bug move is 90 base power and only works on the first turn its on the field (first impression).
Who are these super powerful bug types you fear?

>>58104321
Flutter Mane Moonblast would be neutral and we just can't have that shit man.

>>58104286
>>NO AESTHETICS DON'T MATTER
if every type just plays like
>attacker @ life orb or choice item or leftovers
> - stab 1
> - stab 2
> - coverage move
> - boosting move
then no, aesthetics don't matter because they all play the same. it would be nothing but set dressing to cover up a lack of depth. Then again, campaignshitters love that type of style-over-substance design. I bet you just LOVED Dynamax.
>You genuinely, seriously think, that the only identity of a type is relative power
nope, not at all, the identity of a type comes from niches
here's how I'd design some type niches just off the top of my head:
>Normal: specializes in coverage but struggles with STAB
>Fire: specializes in high BP special damage but struggles in coverage and boosting moves
>Fighting: High power physical moves with huge drawbacks (recoil or stat drops)
>Water: specializes in healing and damage mitigation
>Flying: specializes in team buffing and utility
>Grass: specializes in status effects
>Poison: specializes in stacking and spreading DoT effects
>Electric: focuses on glass cannons with high speed stats and boosting moves, suffers in coverage and offensive stats
>Bug: specializes in evolving quickly and early and being very powerful early on, but falls off after the early game
>Dark: specializes in conditional moves, as in moves that only work under specific conditions or whose power increases under said conditions
>etc. (too much for 1 post)
if you look closely, some of these niches are what these types had back in gen 1, some remain in the game to this day yet others are completely gone, and some are completely original
>well your niches are cringe and you're a shit game designer
ok but i'd rather have this than the copy/paste templates every pokemon would be without them

>thread about the spelling of "fairy"
>instantly devolves into chaos when the subject changes to the balancing of the fairy and bug types
Classic /vp/

>>58104332
you have a really low bar for what constitutes "chaos". I'm just having a good time

>>58104332
We already killed the faeriecuck here >>58103707

>>58104321
At least slitherwing is good in tera raids with leech life :(

>>58104328
>ok but i'd rather have this than the copy/paste templates every pokemon would be without them
doesn't this make the game more copy paste if every fucking bug is some early game shitmon, every fire pokemon is a hyperlinear special attacker and every poison pokemon is an affliction warlock
scizor, forretress, shuckle, lokix and volcarona are all cool pokemon with vastly different gameplay niches (that make heavy use of bug moves), why would I want to live in the reality where I only get to use butterfree, beedrill, beautifly, dustox, kricketune and mothim

I think pokemon types should have been reigned in a bit more and have more defined niches, but "only uses high damaging special fire attacks with different drawbacks" is way too fucking narrow, I don't need 20 different typhlosions.

making bug SE against fairy would also not magically change the entire fabric of the video game to where every pokemon uses the same set

>>58104105
Not that retard but it's literally true. Obviously they're not going to give the first gym a Pokemon with 100 Attack.

>>58105184
The point is that something like Onix which already has good defense is not also going to have high attack when it's meant to be the first Gym's ace. Cranidos has high attack and nothing else and is also a shitmon. Onix was meant to have roughly the same power level as shit like Rattata and Beedrill, that's why it has sub 400 BST, that's why it's in the part of the game that it is.

God made Onix to have bad attack and theres nothing Gamefreak could have done to change that. It was just ment to be. God made it to have 160 defense (it says so in the bible) so even if Gamefreak tried to code it better attack, they just literally can't do that because it already has god given 160 defense. Coding just works like that.

>>58105264
Now you're just being schizophrenic. It was made to be the first Gym boss, that's why it has shit stats. It's as simple as that. I couldn't care less if GF buffed it so I don't know why you're whining about that, I'm just telling you why it was made the way that it is.

Pidgey isn't the first "boss" and it still has shit stats.

>>58105288
>Onix is a square, that's why it's a rectangle
>well Pidgey isn't a square and it's also a rectangle!
Are you okay? The reason Pidgey has shit stats is because it's a route 1 early game baby. Onix is a Pokemon you're meant to fight with those route 1 early game babies, so it has similarly shit stats.

>it has good defense
>it has shit stats
hmm... something doesn't quite add up here...

>>58105307
Onix having shit stats was already establushed from the start, try again.
>>58104105

>>58104105
ok but this is clearly true, onix is a victim of circumstance
it's a pokemon that exists just so that you have a big fuckoff monster to take down in the first gym, and unfortunately it suffered a lot as a result
which is a shame because it's objectively a pretty cool pokemon, you can't really go wrong with a giant serpent made of boulders

>>58105178
Cranidos

>>58105315
>it's a pokemon that exists just so that you have a big fuckoff monster to take down in the first gym
nah it's a normal pokemon that was randomly chosen to be in a gym

>>58105321
cranidos was after they had figured out what they could get away with
onix was in the very first game

>>58105322
Do you think GF just designs the Pokémon in isolation with no thought on what roles they'll have in the games?

>>58105326
It takes them that long to figure out basic math? Geodude had base 80 attack, at that level the stat difference isn’t particularly big and the movesets weren’t impressive at the time. Onix having such low damage is asinine when the thing literally before it has like 50% more of its attack.

>>58105336
Yah considering stuff like SM trials were last minute addon.

>>58105353
No, they were coded last minute, they were planning to implement them from the project pitch (they'd wanted to have a post-game gym creation project initially, something that only makes sense if there were no formal gyms for the main game).

>>58103739
But why does the type itself have to suck ass?
I understand why mons like Beedrill and Butterfree have such low stats, but why does the types matchups have to be so bad, fucking over the bug-types with high stats?

>>58104105
That one is actually true, though.
And more importantly, GF only fucked over Onix to make Onix weak.
Golem and Rhydon were allowed to be good.

>>58103739
>and go figure, the game that first started to miss the point of the bug type and started to strip it of its identity was gen 5, what a surprise
Not Gen 3 or 4, with Heracross and Scizor being fairly powerful? Or Gen 2, where starting bugs began to evolve later?

>>58103738
>Bugs eat Fairies
No they don’t. Fairies are nature spirits and the most culturally relevant depictions of them have them taming bugs to use as livestock or mounts. Under no circumstances should bug have an advantage over fairy.

>>58103724
You wet the bed until you were 29

>80 IQ
Fairy should resist bug
>100 IQ
Bug should be super effective vs Fairy
>200 IQ
Fairy and bug should have been super effective against each other

the card game sorely needed fairy types for game balance and making everyone play Lillie's Clefairy EX for its ability is not an adequate solution
fuck dragons

>>58106864
>300 IQ
Fairy should've been spelled Faerie